About 10% of the world’s population lacks access to reliable energy. A third of the world lacks access to clean cooking fuels—a major health risk. At some point, renewable energy sources will likely fill these gaps—but until then, Steve Riney, President and CFO of Apache, argues, the focus needs to be on empowering people to connect to the global economy and on providing more of every form of energy.

As always, we want to listen to and learn from varied perspectives as part of the shift to a lower carbon economy. In this episode, Erika Pagel sits down with Steve to talk about why he thinks in terms of energy expansion rather than energy transition. They unpack his experiences and points of view, from his leadership position in an “unapologetic” oil and gas company. Steve and Erika cover changes in the energy industry, conventional vs. unconventional production, energy poverty, sustainability, and “doing the right thing” in a politicized environment.

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