Join the author and Integral scholar John Dupuy in a wide-ranging exploration of the principles of intoxication, addiction, and sobriety. The conversation begins with the origins of his landmark book, Integral Recovery, and John’s experience with the traditional 12 step program. How does alcohol, and other substances, work to alter our relationship to the contents of our mind? Are there healthier ways to alter this relationship, like meditation? He then offers a rich rendering of the integral approach, including a thorough look at quadrants, levels, lines, stages, states (we are all state junkies), and shadow work. Why are all these factors important, and how does one engage them all? What is the difference between distress and eustress, and their relationship to translation and transformation?

John elaborates on the use of spiral dynamics as a developmental schema, and the difference between dominator and actualization hierarchies, before talking about alcohol and other substances as devolutionary drivers. How can we use all this information to enhance skillful means for helping others? The discussion then explores the benefits of the Enneagram, as a method to better understand ourselves and others. These are all maps of the prison, and therefore very helpful if we want to make a prison break. The power of projection, enveloped in shadow work, is discussed in depth, including the 3-2-1 process of reintegration that allows us to take ownership of our shadows. Without this inner work, the “beasts in the basement” of our mind will constantly take us down, and back to the bottle.

John shares his rich experience with brain wave entrainment, how it works, how to use it, and why it’s not cheating. The conversation closes with a deep dive into how addiction is a matter of degree, and how we are all addicts, whether we know it or not. Andrew shares his experience of “detox” in extended retreat, and the discovery of his addiction to thought and movement. Can one legitimately reduce conventional addiction, intoxication, and sobriety, to fundamental principles? What does “being sober” really mean? Is enlightenment the ultimate sobriety? John’s ability to join heaven and earth, book smarts with street smarts, makes him uniquely qualified to talk about these complex issues, and then bolt them into practical life. This podcast connects to material discussed in conversations with Ken Wilber, Dustin DiPerna, Roger Walsh, and Judson Brewer.