Guest Introduction

Gracey is an Amazon Influencer & content creator who specializes in bringing the best deals & Amazon finds to her community of over a million followers across Tik Tok and 6+ additional platforms. She will show you why influencer marketing is the next vital step for your brand and the secrets to succeed with it on Tik Tok and Amazon Live. In her first year, she has driven over seven figures of revenue and helped many brands selling on Amazon boost sales, increase long-term keyword ranking, drive brand awareness, and go viral. She also live streams for Amazon as an A-List Amazon Live Creator and is often featured on the Amazon.com home & deals page.

> Here’s a glimpse of what you would learn…. 

In this episode of the Ecomm Breakthrough podcast, host Josh Hadley welcomes Gracey Ryback, a renowned Amazon influencer and marketing guru. They dive into the nuances of influencer marketing on Amazon, discussing strategies for brands to maximize ROI through affiliate platforms and influencer partnerships. Gracey shares her expertise on building effective relationships with influencers, leveraging platforms like TikTok Shop, and the importance of commission rates in driving sales. The duo also touches on the significance of product fit and communication in successful collaborations. For business owners aiming to scale, Gracey's practical advice and personal anecdotes offer a treasure trove of actionable tips.

Here are the 3 action items that Josh identified from this episode:

Action Item #1: Gracey advised brands to vet influencers based on content quality and engagement rate, and to utilize TikTok's messaging platform for targeted outreach campaigns.

Action Item #2: Gracey highlighted the lack of trust associated with TikTok Shop and its influence on Amazon sales. Discoveries made on TikTok often translate into increased sales on Amazon, illustrating the interconnectedness of these platforms.

Action Item #3: Gracey emphasized the growing preference for commission-based collaborations and the positive impact of providing free samples to influencers.

Special Mention(s):

Related Episode(s):

This episode is brought to you by eComm Breakthrough Consulting where I help seven-figure e-commerce owners grow to eight figures. 

I started my business in 2015 and grew it to an eight-figure brand in seven years.

I made mistakes along the way that made the path to eight figures longer. At times I doubted whether our business could even survive and become a real brand. I wish I would have had a guide to help me grow faster and avoid the stumbling blocks.

If you’ve hit a plateau and want to know the next steps to take your business to the next level, then email me at josh@ecommbreakthrough.com and in your subject line say “strategy audit” for the chance to win a $10,000 comprehensive business strategy audit at no cost!

Josh (00:00:00) - Welcome to the Ecomm Breakthrough podcast. I'm your host, Josh Hadley, where I interviewed the top business leaders in e-commerce. Past guests include Kevin King, Michael E Gerber, author of The E-myth, and Matt Clark from ASM. Today, I'm speaking with Gracey Ryback, an Amazon influencer and a marketing expert, and she is going to be talking about why influencer marketing is the next vital step to help your brand succeed. This episode is brought to you by Ecomm Breakthrough Consulting, where I help seven figure companies grow to eight figures and beyond. Listen, Gracey, I started my business back in 2015 and I grew it to an eight figure brand in seven years. But I made a lot of mistakes along the way. That made the path of getting to eight figures take a lot longer than it needed to. I made bad hiring decisions. I had to take money from my own personal bank account because of cash flow constraints and actually pay payroll. I also stressed about whether our brand could survive when Covid hit, and we saw a 90% reduction in revenue overnight.

Josh (00:01:02) - I remember wishing for a mentor who could guide me through the maze of scaling up somebody who had been there, done that, and could share all the secrets to help me overcome those obstacles. That's why I've decided to offer one on one coaching and consulting, where I share the nitty gritty cash flow frameworks, the sales strategies, and the operating systems that have helped me scale my own business. And because I believe in giving each entrepreneur my undivided attention, I only work with three clients at a time. But first, in order to get to that point, I want to make sure we're a perfect match. So I'm offering a completely free, no strings attached business strategy audit. It's normally valued at over $10,000 before we take the plunge. And this audit is my way of showing you how committed I am to your success. So to our listeners, if this sounds like something you're up for, drop me an email at Josh at Ecomm Breakthrough dot com. That's ecomm with two M's. And in your subject line say I want to pick your brain.

Josh (00:02:01) - And then let's chat about how we can take your brand to the next level. Today I am super excited to introduce you all to Gracey Ryback. Gracey is an Amazon influencer and content creator who specializes in bringing the best deals and Amazon finds to her community of over a million followers across TikTok and other social platforms. She will show you why influencer marketing is the next vital step for your brand and the secrets to succeed with it. On TikTok and Amazon Live. In her first year, she has driven over seven figures of revenue and helped many brands selling on Amazon, boost sales, increase long term keyword ranking, drive brand awareness and go viral. She also live streams for Amazon as an A-list Amazon Live creator, and is often featured on the Amazon.com Home and Deals page. So with that introduction, welcome to the show, Gracey.

Gracey (00:02:55) - Thank you Josh, I'm excited to be here. I'm excited to get into these fun topics.

Josh (00:03:01) - Well, I am super excited to have you on the show. I already told you that before we hit the record button.

Josh (00:03:06) - I selfishly am going to be feverishly taking notes for my own brand as you dive into all of these strategies. And that's why I wanted to bring you on, because one of my priorities for this year is how do we create a better affiliate program, a better influencer program? Because my opinion is this: in the next 5 to 10 years on Amazon, the brands that are winning are going to be the brands that are able to drive traffic somewhere else. Brand awareness. There's people talking about you on social media, you're on blogs, whatever it is, but it's going to get more and more challenging on Amazon. So with that being said, you've got to be able to bring your own traffic in the future if you want to succeed. So that's where I see influencer marketing becoming so important. And Gracey, you're one of the best. You drive lots of revenue as an influencer for many brands. So we're speaking to somebody who lives and breathes this on the other side, not necessarily as a brand owner, even though I know you do have a portion of that as well.

Josh (00:04:10) - But your bread and butter is influencer marketing. So, Gracey, give us the landscape right now where we're at with Amazon in 2024 and why influencer marketing is something people should be considering.

Gracey (00:04:24) - Okay. Everything you said so far has been correct. I don't think it's I mean, obviously in the last couple of years you can say Amazon has been very competitive. Tons of brands, tons of new sellers. And then there's even as a buyer, so many products to sort through. So even making the purchasing decision as a buyer is getting more challenging as well. And I think that's where influencer marketing kind of steps in, because the whole point of it almost is to help people make purchasing decisions. It's to recommend certain things why they're better than others do reviews, how people learn about the products, and that as more products are out, as more products are launched, as there's more competition, that's going to be more important to help people know what to buy and what to save their money on and what's better than others.

Gracey (00:05:09) - And then, of course, even as a creator, it is really important, and you can definitely see the value that Amazon is putting on, even creators bringing their own outside traffic and directing that to Amazon. So as you know, there's the on site aspect of Amazon that can be considered Amazon Live. It can be considered shoppable videos, like the videos that show up on an Amazon listing that influencers can upload. But then, of course, there's the offsite traffic factor where you're driving your audience from social media, and even that, you can see how much the off site is more heavily weighted, even for creators, if not for brands. But, you know, PPC is getting more competitive and more expensive as well. So I think every brand should be thinking about how to drive their own traffic externally.

Josh (00:05:53) - Yeah, no, I love that. And you know, before we hit the record button, we talked briefly about whether Amazon Live is worth it and stuff right now. So I guess before we dive into kind of like tee up our conversation today,, what would you say is kind of like the lowest hanging fruit and the best levers that a seven figure brand owner could pull right now in order to really experience a greater ROI.

Gracey (00:06:23) - So I think,, a couple of the platforms that we did mention, I think they're so helpful. And like you said, they're low hanging fruit. So this isn't just for the big brands with huge budgets. I think this is really good for brands that are wanting to start out with influencer marketing, and they're looking for that external traffic, but without spending a ton of money on it or time. Really, honestly. So I think,, a couple just, just to name like 3 or 4. We talked about Levanta, and I think Levanta did a really, really good job. I really appreciate their chat with the brand and the creators. And then they're able to chat directly on the platform and kind of, you know, the brand can offer samples. They can figure that out through the chat. You can talk about offering a higher commission to the creator based on sales. You can also take that partnership off the platform., and, you know, create a longer relationship with the influencer and brand there.

Gracey (00:07:21) - So I really like Levanta for that. Plus they have a huge product category. I appreciate that as a creatorLogie has been, you know, one that I've been working with for so long. Logie is also great, offers higher commission for creators, offers basically a marketplace for brands to post their product and for creators to find,, creator connections. Being Amazon's own version of this on Amazon's platform, all influencers should have access to it, and they offer increased commissions,, for a certain amount of time for creator connections campaigns. And then what was the last one you said? Archer affiliates. Yeah. So our affiliates do really well., and I think Levanta and maybe Archer affiliates as well. They let brands use the attribution links instead of the creators affiliate links. And, you know, that helps so much with the brand referral bonus program and just Amazon rewarding that offsite traffic.

Josh (00:08:15) - Awesome. So you're saying that the lowest hanging fruit and one of the best places to start is probably just posting your products on these affiliate sites where there's already influencers there looking for products.

Josh (00:08:28) - Are there any like you yourself, do you go look at those platforms to try to discover new products and any strategies that you could share with us to kind of maximize our usage of those platforms?

Gracey (00:08:41) - Yes, I'm definitely looking at things that I would be talking about or sharing on social media organically already, and if they are also happening to be on these sites that offer extra commission, it's such a win-win. I saw my friend was talking about how she posted a product.. The Amazon commission may have only been like $0.80 because it's like, what, 2 to 4%? But then she got Logie commission and then she got Levanta commission, and then it ended up being like a $7 commission for like a $20 product, let's say. So I like to think of that. But like 50 times 100, it really does add up. And maybe she would have been talking about it anyway, regardless of whether it was on Levanta or not. So that's the really nice thing., and how to get the most out of these platforms, I think,, you know, there are a lot of brands signing up for this.

Gracey (00:09:33) - It's not oversaturated, I don't think, by any means. But, you know, there is the aspect of building a relationship with the creator for your brand and finding creators that are a good fit for your brand.. There is a little bit of, you know, search and find in this and you can reach out to them, offer an incentivizing commission. Don't be like, oh, 5% whatever. Offer something that would make it worth their time., that I think the average is like 10 to 20%, whatever the margins allow for. But offering a good commission definitely helps. You know, more creators talk about your product and then,, if it works well, be like, hey, I really loved working with you. You generated great sales for us. We'd love to keep working with you for the long run. And then therefore, you kind of found yourself like a brand ambassador.

Josh (00:10:18) - What does that look like? If you find somebody that does a really good job, has driven a lot of sales.

Josh (00:10:24) - Can you give me some ideas of what a brand ambassador partnership may look like? Is it just increased commissions?, is there more to it? Tell me your thoughts there.

Gracey (00:10:35) - So if you're a brand with multiple products and you find a creator, like, let's just make an example. Like a pet product or like you have a pet product, you find a good influencer that is a great match. They generate sales. They worked well with you. You liked what they did, their content style. So to turn that long term, you could say if you have other products in your lineup, if you sell other things, you could offer them samples and then you could say, hey, like, if you want to create content with these, feel free. Like talk about these whenever you feel fit. And then you could also offer the higher commission for a longer time, you know, like more long term. And then, you can also just like, you know, follow up with them.

Gracey (00:11:16) - Hey, we're having a deal for Prime Day. Hey, we're running this coupon. We're running this promo code. You can offer them, like a customized promo code that they could share with their audience. So there's, like, tons of different ways you could incentivize them and make it so much more worth it for them. And they're talking about it and they're making sales and they're doing well. So it helps them and you as well as a brand.

Josh (00:11:39) - I love that. And it just kind of sparked an idea in my mind of one thing you could do is almost kind of create your own email newsletter that goes out to your like, brand ambassadors, right? So you go with this big approach first. You're trying to find as many people as you can. Let's say you find ten, 20 like really consistent good brand ambassadors, right? You have their contact information. And then every month or every quarter you have a challenge and you're saying, hey, we've got a new product that's coming out, we need you to push this.

Josh (00:12:11) - And here's the bonus., like, I've already got my creative juices flowing just like,, you run these competitions. What are your thoughts on that? Am I that a wild, farfetched idea or what? Have you ever seen something like that? It's not.

Gracey (00:12:25) - Wild. I like your idea. With that I would say instead of saying like, you got to push this or like, here's a challenge, instead of making it like, here's more work on your plate, make it like, here's what we're offering. And if this is, you know, incentivizing to you if this is good for your audience and if this helps you in any way, like share it, share it, create content with it, offer a bonus promo code to your followers, whatever it may be. And instead of coming off like, oh, like, here's something you got to work for, here's something else for you to do. It is more like a beneficial, mutually beneficial partnership, I think.

Gracey (00:13:00) - But I love the idea and I obviously of course, we love taking something and like making it our own with like an email list and like you can obviously give them monthly updates, quarterly updates and say, here's what's new with our brand. Here are the products we launched. Here are the deals we're running., something that influencers and creators actually really appreciate is whenever like, let's just talk about the,, spring sale that happened in March, this on Amazon. And usually we're planning for these sale events, Prime Day, for example. We're planning weeks ahead and we're going to talk about our products. We can anticipate these deals happening. So if you have deals that you plan on running, I know Amazon allows you to kind of submit deals beforehand. Give them your deals beforehand and like kind of let them integrate your deals into their planning process instead of just like, oh, like a lot of times we don't post things that we see like the day of like it's all pre-planned.

Gracey (00:14:00) - So let them know beforehand.

Josh (00:14:02) - Yeah. No, I love that. I think ultimately it just comes down to better communication. Right. And I'm almost learning from this is that even if you you may be able to start on some of these platforms, right? Levanta, log creator connections, etc.. That's a good starting point. Well, ultimately you need to get to a point where you identify the people that are generating sales for you, capture their contact information, right? And then you need to then keep them updated. Right. I think the nice part about these tools though, you could do this on TikTok shop, you could do this on Levanta and you could also do this on Amazon Creator Connections and even Logi. But you could basically take that group and say, hey, we're coming out with this new product. For those of you interested in promoting this,, here's the link to come join my TikTok,, targeted campaign, right where it's a boosted affiliate commission. Right. It's like everybody else is getting 10%.

Josh (00:15:04) - I'm giving you guys 25%. Right. And you could set all of that up on those platforms. True.

Gracey (00:15:11) - . It's true. I love that you said,, the Tick Tock Shop campaigns because obviously, as a brand, if you find a good piece of. Creative that, you know, organically converts super well. You can boost that as a brand, but the creators also get the benefit of the extra commissions that come from you, putting a boost behind it. So I really, really appreciate that. TikTok shop just as a side.

Josh (00:15:32) - Yeah. And that's a whole other tangent to get into, right. TikTok shop., so before we move over,. Is there any other tips, advice or strategies that you would share when or specifically to brands that are trying to put their products on Creator Connect? Levanta anything like that.

Gracey (00:15:57) - I'd say, if possible, offer product samples. I know that might be a given,, sometimes, but I think product samples not only gives the creator the ability to create content without without investing in the product themselves, but it also helps create a, you know, I get to create my own opinion about the product and I get to really decide, do I love it? Am I going to be like a real fan of this product?, otherwise, the only thing we have to go off of is like the product listing and like the images provided there.

Gracey (00:16:26) - So I do think,, there's really value in like, offering samples as a brand. And you'd be surprised. That's not always like an obvious given.

Josh (00:16:35) - Interesting, interesting. So you see a lot of people that don't give out samples then.

Gracey (00:16:41) - Or like it would have to be like, you'd really have to like, go out of your way and ask for it and almost be like. Can I make a video? Like, could I get a unit of this?, yeah. You think that it should be. More obvious, but not always.

Josh (00:16:58) - But it's not interesting. So with that, let's say you do get a free sample from somebody here. Would it be my question? Do you need to? And again, this is maybe touching on the TikTok shop at two. But do you need to give somebody a creative brief to say this is my expectation? This is what I want to see. Obviously, I think driving home some of the product features and benefits I think can be helpful.

Josh (00:17:23) - But how specific should you or should you not be in saying, this is what I want you to create with this sample?

Gracey (00:17:30) - Right. So I will say also, giving a creator a product sample doesn't guarantee or promise that content will be created out of it. You know, it doesn't automatically mean that they owe you a video or owe you any kind of content. Maybe it's just so that they can form an opinion about your product and try it out for themselves. Take a look and see what the actual product is that they're talking about. But if you have a creative brief, great and fine. But I will say I'm not the biggest fan of them. I think talking points is really all that's needed, and a lot of times I can find those on the product page. Yeah, you know, I can see the bullet points, I can see the photos, I can see the features, I can see everything I need to know based on the product page., so a lot of times if you have it, fine, great.

Gracey (00:18:16) - But a lot of times I don't request them, nor do I need them unless I'm creating an in-depth video for a product. So I don't think they're super necessary. Oftentimes they do feel like, you know, you need to study up on this, and that's not always welcome.

Josh (00:18:33) - Yeah, 100% out of those platforms that we briefly mentioned there, which one is the most exciting for you. If somebody could only focus on one. Which one do you feel like would give them the most leverage?

Gracey (00:18:48) - I feel like I'm really pushing Levante. I swear I'm not affiliated with them in any way, but like, I really like them. It's because they have that direct chat feature that really allows you to talk to the brand. You can really like to create custom partnerships instead of like one and done. It's this or nothing. Like here it is, take it or leave it. You can really talk to them. And I've formed plenty of brand partnerships that have, you know, gone way out of Levante.

Gracey (00:19:13) - And for that I appreciate it., I also like the commission rates. I like their huge product database catalog that I can pick from. And yeah, I appreciate them a lot. Archer Affiliates is good too. But I know you want to focus on something like my top one, the.

Josh (00:19:30) - One right one., so with Levanta do you have an influence? Do you have a lot of brands that are reaching out to you, like proactively reaching out to you and trying to get you to become an affiliate?, hundreds. Okay. So yes. Yes. Is that a good strategy and should brands be doing that, or do you feel like you get so many that it's like, if you want this, you're going to have to find me somewhere else and connect with me. So. Well, I.

Gracey (00:20:00) - Would say that,, I've seen from the brand standpoint, they're like a database of creators, which I appreciate from the brand standpoint to that level of offers.

Gracey (00:20:09) - , I do want to say that I have gotten slightly overwhelmed with the amount of, like, personalized messages and outreaches from brands. I definitely have like a couple hundred sitting there that I've been like, I might need to take time out of my day and like, sort through these and go through these in response. And it's almost like a separate email inbox. Almost. But am I going to sit here and tell a brand not to reach out like, no, you know, no, I wouldn't say that either. So as a brand, you should be reaching out., and I think the things to include or the things that I say to include in any influencer outreach email, you know, like introduce yourself, who are you in the brand? Here's the product. Here's the link to it. Here's the commission rate we're able to offer., we'd love to partner up with you for this, that and the other and let us know if you're interested. We'd love to send you a sample, blah blah blah.

Gracey (00:20:53) - Include as much information out front including an incentivizing commission rate, and the interested ones will reach back out. And another thing is, I'm pretty sure you get access to, like, the influencers, of course, social media, but maybe also email. I'm not saying I would like to take their email and email them outside of Levanta, but it's happened to me. So okay.

Josh (00:21:14) - Does that get your attention then?

Gracey (00:21:16) - You didn't hear it from me, but.

Josh (00:21:19) - Somebody somebody told me, Gracey, that it's good to find their email somewhere else and connect with them..

Gracey (00:21:27) - But from a brand standpoint, if you have.

Josh (00:21:30) - It. You can do it. Yeah. All right. What stands out to you? You've got your. You got 200 plus requests. Yeah. What stands out to you? How do I catch your attention, Gracey, if I want you to promote my products because you're getting hit up all the time and tick tock shops even worse, right?

Gracey (00:21:48) - It is. Yeah. The messages there are overwhelming, for sure.

Gracey (00:21:52) - , I would say, like, right now, from my own strategy, I don't know how everyone else is doing it, but I'm kind of looking through to see like, okay, what am I organically talking about anyway? Can I find a brand who can offer something that like, you know, I'm talking about bedding, whatever. And here's a brand that has bedding, good quality, offering a good commission rate. Like I'll reach back out and respond and like, work with them., I mean, I could sit there and like, file through and like go through everything. And typically instead of looking at commission rate first, I will look at product fit first to see what's fit for my audience. And I think that stands true for many other creators. It's not like, you know, not every product is a good fit for every influencer. I think the influencer is going to go through and see what products are best fit for their audience and hopefully sort that way. So there's not much a brand can do from that point, aside from reaching out to the influencers.

Gracey (00:22:44) - That would make sense. Yeah, and would be a good fit. Yeah, yeah.

Josh (00:22:49) - Makes a lot of sense. Good. All right. I think we've tackled the easy stuff there.. Those four platforms. So to sum them up, we've got Levanta, we've got Archer affiliates. We also have Logie, we have Amazon's Creator Connect program as well. All right. So let's touch on this real quick before we dive into the meat and potatoes that is going to be a TikTok shop. Okay. But before we get to that you briefly mentioned this at the beginning, which is Amazon Live in Amazon shoppable videos. If you're a brand owner, Gracey, how much time are you spending or effort to have Amazon Live videos for your brand or be, shoppable videos? How impactful are those compared to all of these options that we have that we're talking about today?

Gracey (00:23:42) - So I would say shoppable videos. I wouldn't spend, you know, days working on something like this. I would say shoppable videos are more for listing optimization.

Gracey (00:23:53) - If anything, don't think of it as driving any offsite. Don't think of it as really affecting sales. Don't think of any shoppable videos giving you any kind of, you know, sale jump by any means. So this is basically just making sure that your product listing has videos for your product instead of your competitors showing up in that row of videos. And, you know, it'll say like videos for related products instead of videos for this product or your product. So in that sense, I'd say it's worth doing. But the thing is, the creators that you're going to work with for these shoppable videos they're following, count does not matter., they typically do not charge that much to do the video. And hopefully you can just offer them a sample and some may ask for a flat fee, some won't. Some ask for copyright usage, some won't. And really, you're going to want to look at diversifying the types of videos you have and the quality of videos that the influencer can produce for you.

Gracey (00:24:52) - And those are the two things that really matter., yeah, I'd get like hopefully 5 to 10 videos there, just like reaching out to like any Amazon influencer, they have the ability to do this, get those videos uploaded. The placement is never guaranteed. Placement will always be rotated. You might have videos and Amazon might not place them. It's out of our hands, out of your hands. So don't spend too much money or time on it. But it's important to do, I would say, in your free time. Yeah. Okay., yeah. So it's one of those offsite things that Amazon has control over that neither the brand nor creator can really do anything about.

Josh (00:25:31) - It makes sense. And do you find that the best way to get shoppable videos is by reaching out to people through Creator Connections on Amazon?

Gracey (00:25:39) - So I don't believe creator connections allow for any kind of direct communication between brand and creator. So it does.

Josh (00:25:48) - There is a messaging feature. Yes.

Gracey (00:25:50) - That must be new or a feature.

Josh (00:25:54) - Yes. Wow.

Gracey (00:25:56) - So okay, great. If you find a good influencer from there and you're already giving them a unit of your product, absolutely. Ask them to make a video for you. Why not? Maybe that's, you know, the easiest way to access them. That's fine. And if you like their quality of video and you can give them the talking points and you can give them the product, why not? That works.

Josh (00:26:16) - Yeah. That's interesting. So we kind of stumbled upon this a couple of months ago because we were doing like the Creator connection campaigns. And I was like, what is this red dot over here? And pull it up. It's a message. And I had like 100 messages. Wow. And a lot of people, what they were doing is like, can I get a free sample in return for your sample? I'll create a shoppable video on Amazon. And I was like, oh, what are you talking about? Like, I had no idea what the shoppable video was.

Josh (00:26:47) - , because it does like on Amazon, it's just showing up in just the most random places. Sometimes it's on your detail page, sometimes it's in there to inspire content. It's Amazon's world. Right.

Gracey (00:26:59) - Exactly, exactly. Sometimes they're like in the middle. Sometimes they're on the very bottom. Sometimes they're just not there. And the placement is always moving around. So you're right, it's but I didn't know about the messaging feature. So that's great. And it seems like people are just sitting in the inbox waiting to make shoppable videos. So even better.

Josh (00:27:17) - Yes. There you go. All right. What about Amazon Live? Yes.

Gracey (00:27:21) - So Amazon Live,, with the insiders and the rising stars, which is like rising stars, like first tier. Second tier is insider top tier as A-list., insider and rising star get live stream placement on their influencer storefront, which really doesn't get any like traffic unless you, as the creator, are driving your own traffic to your influencer storefront. That's the only way any eyes are going to see it.

Gracey (00:27:49) - But once you get to A-list status,, then you can basically potentially get access to the deals page or Amazon home page. However, I would say that because it is like an on site factor for Amazon. Placement is always kind of in their hands, so it's very hard to guarantee anything that any visibility will happen. And I know that they've recently made a shift to focus more on producing in-house live streams instead of creator created live streams. So in the grand scheme of things, where you could be doing for your brand, I wouldn't say that live streams are something to spend a whole lot of time or energy on.

Josh (00:28:37) - Okay. Good summary. Good gist. Yeah. All right, Gracey, now let's transition into a TikTok shop. So with our brand we got on the TikTok shop a couple months ago, we've been reaching out to a bunch of influencers, and they've been getting a bunch of,, messages, obviously similar to yourself. We've just been in exchange for a product sample. They're creating a bunch of videos.

Josh (00:29:02) - , for us, we had one go viral, 1.3 million views., we've generated over a thousand orders,, in the last 30 days since we kind of got this thing going. That's amazing. I think it's exciting, right? Is that that hot topic that everybody is talking about? But I do not believe that I am an expert whatsoever at this point. That's so new. There's not many experts out there, right? But I'm curious to hear from your perspective as a creator, what do you think are wins that brands could do and capture that traffic on TikTok?

Gracey (00:29:40) - Yeah. So I think with TikTok shop just being so new, kind of starting in the last year, I think I first discovered it and heard about it right about a year ago., it's at first it was so unsaturated that brands were saying things like, oh, I just, you know, uploaded a product and started getting sales. And I think that was maybe very short lived because that's not really the reality of the situation.

Gracey (00:30:06) - , I think there's so much magic in the TikTok shop that has not been replicated anywhere else, but it's not like you upload something and just like, sell out immediately. It's not that. It's not that. So,, I think from a creator standpoint, the nice thing is that we do have that direct communication with sellers, and we do have access to the brand marketplace. And the thing I appreciate most is TikTok shops' active involvement with us, careers like they're always reaching out, they're always giving us resources. They're always giving us basically these credits that we can use to purchase samples. And I think TikTok is covering the cost. I don't even think they're coming out of the brand's pocket. And that's really nice. So we can try out products, we can make videos about products. The commission rate is the best part. Like the commission rates can vary from, you know, 7% on the very low end, 10% 15 to 20 average, 3,040%, like people can make ten bucks per sale.

Gracey (00:31:08) - And if a video is going viral, that really adds up. And TikTok is also pushing traffic to these videos by themselves, and they give the brand the option to push the video on their end and allows the creator to get their commission as well from any sales. So it's like a huge win for everyone.

Josh (00:31:26) - Yeah, no, I love it., I'm super bullish on this. The other thing that I love about TikTok shops, too, or just TikTok in general, is that with the influencers that we've reached out to, these people don't have large followings. We're talking like the largest one that had 1.3 million views. She had 29,000 followers. It's not massive, right? But we're finding that people with 5000 followers, 8000 followers are creating videos that are getting thousands of views, like 30,000, 50,000 views. And you add that up and that starts to compound pretty darn quickly., and that's what I love is like, yeah, I feel like the challenge and you yourself could probably see this because like.

Josh (00:32:12) - As if I reach out to an influencer. On Instagram and Facebook, it's all about how many followers do you have? That's how much reach or exposure you're going to get. Right, right. With TikTok, it's like, I have no idea. It could be that you could get a million views from this video. I have no idea. And so I think for a brand, this is an easier way to step into influencer marketing without having to work with somebody that has a million followers and needs a thousand bucks just to create the video to begin with, for sure.

Gracey (00:32:44) - Right, definitely. That's my favorite thing about TikTok is that, like on other platforms, like. Instagram is any other platform. Your posts are limited to who follows you, and unless you're on the explore page, for example, nobody else is going to see your content. But on TikTok, I don't know anybody who stays on their TikTok following feed and everyone's on the For You feed, so everyone is seeing videos from creators that they're not necessarily following, and that gives you such a good opportunity to always reach new audiences, always reach new people.

Gracey (00:33:12) - Every video you post is a new app to go viral and find new people. So it's an amazing top of the funnel. And you're right, somebody with literally zero followers could have millions of views on their first video. I've seen it happen a lot actually, so the following account is not a deterrent on TikTok, thankfully.

Josh (00:33:32) - Awesome. So here's kind of another question. Similar to Levanta. If I'm trying to reach out to influencers that are going to create TikTok videos for me, how do I best go about that?

Gracey (00:33:45) - . So I would say the thing to look for when you're vetting influencers is to look at the quality of the content that they're already producing. That's a good telltale, you know, like of what kind of content you can expect them to do for you if you like that and you think their engagement rate good and you like their following count, then you can reach out., hopefully they have some sort of contact information in their email, in their bio, like an email in their bio, if they don't have it.

Gracey (00:34:12) - A lot of people have a link, like a Linktree link page in their bio. Typically this will give you a list of their socials or an email address or some way to find them. And that's how you can reach out and say like, hey, I'm this brand, I sell this. Love your content. Interested in collaborating? What do you think? Here's all the things I'm looking for once you lay it all out there, if they're interested. They'll get back to you.

Josh (00:34:38) - Awesome. Do you? How much do you use?, TikTok’s messaging platform between brands and yourself.

Gracey (00:34:46) - That's, like, overwhelming as well., I would say all of these are like a separate, like, super overwhelming email inbox., I do use it. However, I do feel like my email is still the place that I would like to check daily and like to keep going back and repetitively check. And sometimes I feel like if I don't have enough time, I won't, I won't touch it.

Gracey (00:35:12) - Like I won't go in there. And if I just have like a few minutes because it really takes a lot of time to like, sort through everything. And it's not, it's not like an email where you can organize it or really see what the message is about. So it takes time, but I use it a lot. I do like it., and sometimes when brands do reach out, it's like, hey, can I get your email and I'll send you everything over email instead of doing it here? And sometimes that's better.

Josh (00:35:36) - That makes sense. Do you join targeted campaigns that brands are creating? Because I know the TikTok shop, they have two different versions. They have an open campaign, which is like anybody can post about this product and get a commission. And then the targeted ones are like, you're sending out invitations and saying, hey, I'm giving you an extra commission, right? Right.

Gracey (00:35:59) - So if a product makes sense for me to talk about, and a brand is offering a targeted campaign and they're offering that increased commission, it all makes sense for me.

Gracey (00:36:08) - Of course. Why not?, I appreciate the increased commission. Hopefully the brand is able to send a product my way so I can try it, make content about it. I don't think it's a win win for sure. And if the brand is often like, hey, once you create your video, we'll boost it from our end, get you some traffic, get you some sales. Get awesome sales.

Josh (00:36:29) - I love that. Yeah. So what it sounds like, I think this has been probably one of the most enlightening things from our conversation, is that you had already said, even above the commission percentage, I'm looking for the right product fit for my audience. I'm not just going to pitch anything right.. So with that being said, for a brand, obviously there's only so much you can control if the influencer doesn't feel like it's a good fit for them, like it doesn't matter if you give them 90%, they're like, no, I'm trying to talk to my audience.

Josh (00:37:02) - My audience doesn't want this., but what is a healthy commission then? So let's say you do want to try to, like, capture people's attention, all of these influencers, because you're competing with thousands of brands that are reaching out to these influencers every day. How do I catch your attention? How important is commission and what is like a what if you're the brand? Where would you start commission wise?

Gracey (00:37:28) - I think that also depends on two other factors. And that's your margins as the brand and the like. How much your product costs,, 50% off like a $500 product is going to be different than 50% commission on like a $10 product. So I think if you have,, a situation where you have like a high ticket item, maybe that'll allow you to offer a lower commission rate,, if you know you're still getting $50 per sale, for example, but you have a high ticket item, so you could offer that,, I would say an average commission on TikTok is anywhere between 2010 to 20%.

Gracey (00:38:04) - Yeah. Okay. And you can find the kind of healthy middle ground that's comfortable for, for you as the brand. But I think anything lower than 10%. I don't know. TikTok conditions are so high, so like we're all just spoiled. And we have those good high commissions. Yeah.

Josh (00:38:20) - Not not not even that bad. How much do you pay attention to? Like what that dollar amount is. Right. Like and do influencers focus more like maybe they're not looking at is it 10%. Is it 20%? But yeah. Same thing. Like a 10% commission on a $10 product is $1 10% on the $100 item is ten bucks. Right? Right. More compelling for the $10 commission. Sure., our influencers, is that the way you see things? Is that the way you look at them? Or, like, I'm just kind of curious, like how you go through, like, your evaluation process.

Gracey (00:38:56) - Well, even if I didn't want to see it that way. TikTok is really great in the sense that whenever I see a product that is, you know, eligible for commission, TikTok will literally say on the page, earn $5 per sale, you generate.

Gracey (00:39:08) - So like, I'm able to see how much I can make. And of course, like the percentage really hopefully correlates with the dollar amount, whether it's placed in front of me or not. So yeah, I do. I do think the dollar amount is, at the end of the day, what is most incentivizing. But TikTok knows that and they just do the math for us.

Josh (00:39:27) - So yeah. Yeah. So what do you see with the products that you've been promoting on TikTok shops? What's the average cut that you are getting? Is it $5. Is that like an average like yeah that's about right. Or is it three. Is it ten?

Gracey (00:39:45) - I would say.

Gracey (00:39:48) - Five to 10 to 15. Yeah, five to 5 to 15. I would say so. Like average ten. Let's just say average ten., yeah. And that's really nice. I know that on TikTok shops marketplace, says a creator, we can sort through like highest commission products., so a lot of times I know me and other TikTok shop creators, we can sort by higher commission and kind of decide what what we'll talk about, what we'll create content about that way.

Gracey (00:40:16) - And so maybe we'll incentivize brands to also offer that higher commission because they can be sorted that way as well.

Josh (00:40:23) - Yeah. No, that makes a lot of sense. Awesome. Gracey, what else am I not asking you about TikTok shop and influencer marketing that you think our brands need to know?

Gracey (00:40:36) - , okay, so I wanted to mention this and it kind of relates TikTok shop and Amazon together. So at the TikTok shop I'm my number one fan. I love it. I think it's such a win-win. It's been great so far. I've seen it grow from nothing to something and something great. Now I have friends making a full time income off of simply taking TikTok shops, so it's been great. And the thing about TikTok shop that I've also heard is that they are still building that trust factor aspect, where people might discover a product on TikTok shop or TikTok, but they might be like, oh, the shipping time is maybe a bit longer, or I'm not sure I'll love the quality.

Gracey (00:41:15) - And I don't necessarily trust buying something off TikTok yet, for whatever reason. I'm not saying that's justified, but it is the perception people have. So a lot of times you'll discover a product on TikTok, but then people will still search, find, buy on Amazon. And so you'll see whatever's going viral on TikTok will also be like a top search term on Amazon. So I've seen that happen with so many products. Most recently a water flosser type thing was going viral on TikTok, and I started seeing them sell like crazy on Amazon. So it's not like getting your product on TikTok. Shop is just like, oh, it's just a TikTok shop. It will affect your Amazon sales as well.

Josh (00:41:56) - Yeah, I think that I think that's a huge impact. Right. What would you say is like, is it 50% bleeds over to Amazon? If you had to throw out a guess of a percentage, what do you think? How many people stop TikTok and jump over to Amazon?

Gracey (00:42:13) - I really like that I have no inkling of a clue, but I feel like it would be higher than I would think it would be.

Gracey (00:42:19) - I don't know if it's 50%, I have no idea. But like, you'd be shocked how much TikTok shops actually convert. They do such a good mix of like entertainment plus product selling that that even my friends who like see me and what I do and they know it's an ad, not an ad, but they know it's like they're pushing a product and they'll send me videos and be like, oh, I just bought this again. Like they sold me on this. And I'm like. So I don't know. I have no idea what the actual number that converts to Amazon is, but I feel like it's higher than I would think it is.

Josh (00:42:55) - Okay. All right. Well, ballpark let's say 30%, 25%.

Gracey (00:42:59) - Who knows. But I'm so I wish we could find out.

Josh (00:43:02) - Yeah I think it is interesting. And I do think, like you mentioned, one thing you can do as the brand owner is look at your SKP data. And we did see a lift in our brand search terms and for that product.

Josh (00:43:16) - Right., that went viral. And so we could see that lift on Amazon. So I, I'm, I'm going to spitball and I'm going to say it's about a 25% lift on your Amazon business. I was surprised. Well TikTok shop I've been surprised with the conversion rate of TikTok shop. I thought it would be more like people stop, like I'm the type of person, like I'm going to stop and go to Amazon. So I thought it would be more that way., but I think there's more people on TikTok shopping and then converting on Amazon.

Gracey (00:43:48) - Yeah, yeah. Yeah.

Josh (00:43:49) - So awesome. Gracey, anything else that we haven't discussed?

Gracey (00:43:54) - I feel like we covered. We covered it. I think we made it budget friendly. We talked about what's worth, you know, people spending their time on. We talked about good strategies like how to find and reach out to creators for, you know, videos and partnerships. We talked about the TikTok shop. It's just if you're a brand, there's no reason not to be in a TikTok shop.

Gracey (00:44:16) - I don't think so. I think we covered a lot.

Josh (00:44:18) - So one last thing you reminded me of, okay, is. Do you as a brand. Sometimes people are like, oh, I'm not going to pay creators a thousand, $1,000 just to create a video for me. I have no idea how that's even going to perform. I know that's been one of my reservations. Is it possible for a brand like myself to go out and say, hey, I'm not paying upfront for any videos, but I'll give away free samples all day long in hopes that this can take off. Is that an effective approach to influencer marketing, or do you feel like, yeah, good luck you're fighting an up and an uphill battle.

Gracey (00:44:58) - I feel like instead of saying like. And this is why I like the commission basis deal situation a lot, because instead of saying, hey, I'll pay you $1,000 upfront without really any guarantee that the video will perform, you're saying like, hey, I'm going to pay you based on performance per sale, and if you do, well, you'll get so much more than just a flat fee of $1,000.

Gracey (00:45:23) - And that's actually like I've seen that time and time again add up for me. Like I didn't get paid upfront for anything, but it did viral numbers and then it would be more than I could ever ask for in a flat fee. So that's why I think a performance based situation where you get a good amount of a commission, that's so much better. But I would say if you're talking about like, oh, I can give out samples all day long, you might just give out a lot of samples to people who like cool things and not do anything with them. And I don't think I mean, I don't think that's a great use of your product inventory. I think,, there's a difference in saying like, oh, like I want to do a partnership with a creator, and with them I will do like a sponsored giveaway. They can give away one of my products to their audience. If you have a high value product that's, you know, that makes sense with their audience, that's a good way to do a partnership and kind of do brand awareness.

Gracey (00:46:14) - But again, that's not really for sales. Yeah.

Josh (00:46:17) - Yeah. Makes sense. So maybe secret sources give away free samples and performance based commissions.

Gracey (00:46:24) - There you go. Yeah that's it right.

Josh (00:46:26) - There you go. So what can you do that is still effective? Like are you seeing more influencers being willing to accept performance based like okay. Yeah. Give me your free sample. And instead of $1,000, my hope is that I generate more than $1,000. Like what's the thought process of influencers right now? Because I feel like a couple of years ago it was very much more towards like, no, you're going to pay me upfront now because I don't trust this is going to perform or not. At least that's my perception.

Gracey (00:46:55) - That's true. And it really depends on the creator as well. Because like so many people I know, I think I think back in the day I was very against commission based partnerships as well because of course, like as a creator, once you are doing this as a job, you're going to hope that you can make money from the work that you put in.

Gracey (00:47:11) - And of course, not every video is going to generate a huge flat fee. So I think about that. It's it's a lot of creators. It depends on them. But now that the commission rates actually are higher and they are at the point where they do make a difference, like $10 per sale, not bad. And it also incentivizes the creator to want to drive those sales instead of like, I'll make a video for the sake of making a video, and I don't care how it performs. It incentivizes them to like, you know, with sales in mind. I want this to convert. So it's a win-win situation for both sides. And I think the mentality of commission based partnerships definitely have changed with how much higher commission rates have gotten recently. Plus these platforms are like just doing these commission based partnerships. It's changed recently.

Josh (00:48:05) - Awesome. Yeah. Awesome. Love that. Well, Gracey, as we wrap things up, I love to leave the audience with three actionable takeaways from every episode.

Josh (00:48:14) - So here are the three takeaways that I noted. You let me know if you think I'm missing anything. Okay, so number one, I think the easiest place to start if you are a brand owner selling on Amazon is to start on those four platforms we talked about, which is Levanta Logi, I, Archer affiliates and then Amazon's Creator Connect program that is supporting your existing Amazon business. You're driving traffic. People are already accustomed to driving traffic to Amazon through those platforms., but that's the easiest way to start. And you could even message people within many of those platforms. And so create those conversations with people with the hopes of being able to then take that into an ambassador program, which basically leads me into action item number two, which is, as you get started on all these other platforms, make sure you're getting people's contact information that it's not this, well, I've got my products listed on Levanta. Surely people, a bunch of people are just going to start promoting it. False. That's not going to happen.

Josh (00:49:22) - You have to have a proactive outreach strategy. Make sure you get their contact information. Once you see somebody performing well, then maybe move them into a more dedicated affiliate or a brand sponsor campaign, right? Or an ambassador where they're dedicated. You're willing to give them a little bit more love, early access to things or deals that may be the standard influencers on those platforms aren't getting. So that'd be action item number two, and make sure you're being proactive. I can't emphasize that enough., this is not a build it and they will come. All right. Last third and final action item. If you're not on TikTok shop yet, get on TikTok shop. But what Gracey said just because you put your product on TikTok shop does not mean you're going to get any sales. In fact, we got zero sales until we started reaching out to creators and we've already sent out over 200,, different samples to creators at this point and have their contact information, and they've started creating videos. And like I said, does everybody create a million view video? No.

Josh (00:50:31) - Or like one out of every 150, 200 at this point, but that one that hits makes up for all of the others. Right. And it's just a numbers game. So it's being proactive. It's also realizing that these influencers are getting hit with hundreds of messages a day. Right. And so I think the next action item is if you want to take this to the next level, it's go and find their contact information off of TikTok or whatever platform. Reach out to them via email like you talked about. It's like I'm always checking my email. So if you want that TLC, you really want to work with somebody, go the extra mile and go create those custom messages to those creators on their dedicated platforms. You'll get a higher acceptance rate, and you'll be working with the people you want to work with. So, Gracey, anything else that I missed?

Gracey (00:51:23) - That was an excellent summary that was great.

Josh (00:51:28) - All right. Then we'll leave it at that. So now we'll go into my final three questions for you.

Josh (00:51:35) - Yeah. All right. So number one what's been the most influential book that you've read and why.

Gracey (00:51:41) - Good. Gosh. Okay, so this has been marinating in my head this entire time. Okay. So I hate to be like a little woo woo, but this book has been really great,, for me and a lot of others. So I really like the book Breaking the Habit of Being Yourself by Joe Dispenza. Have you heard of it?

Josh (00:52:00) - I have, I, I know Joe Dispenza. I don't know that specific book. I'm writing it down as we speak. So. Okay. Tell me about it.

Gracey (00:52:09) - It's a really great book and it kind of gets to it's a little bit like physics, but in a way that really makes sense in our daily lives. And it's kind of the practice of both meditation, but also practicing being who you want to be and actively instead of always thinking about it in like, oh, I hope to get there one day, I may. I'm striving to be there.

Gracey (00:52:29) - It's kind of like be and it will be instead of like or like act as if kind of. So I think that's been really nice., especially with the mindset of business and how we all have our insecurities and we all have our weaknesses, and we all want to be this, that and the other. And we see other people and we compare ourselves and all these things. I think it's overall helped with and,, it's not necessarily spiritual, but like it's science based, which I, I really like. So that's a really good book I like.

Josh (00:53:01) - No, I love that I'm going. I have not read that book., but I'm adding that to my list. I've heard his stuff. I've seen him on podcasts and YouTube videos, and I like what he talks about. I'm a big believer in that manifestation. You know, it's all about the mindset. You know, what you feel and what you think definitely becomes your reality. So yeah I love that.

Josh (00:53:24) - All right. Question number two. What is a new software tool or productivity tool that you've recently discovered that you think is a game changer?

Gracey (00:53:33) - This is such a. This is such an answer. Okay, so there's two I use. None of them are innovative. None of them are crazy. Literally. I've just been better at Google Calendar. Like, I'm one of those people who I have little notes here, there and everywhere. And I don't have a central place where I have everything written down. But I feel like I've just, like, utilized Google Calendar better. And so now I have like a go to one thing that I use for everything, and if it's not in my Google calendar, then I don't know or I will forget. So. Maybe just like diving deep and like figuring out all the features that it offers that part. About Google Calendar. I really like them.

Josh (00:54:15) - Cool ways that you're using Google Calendar.

Gracey (00:54:18) - You know, I feel like there's some sort of AI out there that can, like help with Google Calendar.

Gracey (00:54:22) - I've seen it, but I haven't personally liked using it yet. But I made a note. I was like, I made a note in my calendar to check out this AI tool that integrates with Google Calendar. So it's out there. I just haven't used it.

Josh (00:54:38) - I love it all right, I'm a big fan as well. My Google calendar is everything as well. Yeah., did you have another one? You said there are two tools. Don't leave me hanging.

Gracey (00:54:47) - Notion again like it's. No, it's not new to anybody. It's not innovative. It's not cool. It's not AI. But it does have AI a little bit integrated into it. Notion is really nice. Just because I am a visual person and I like being able to see things, I like being able to have a different tab for each area of my life. And I just really like notion for that. Plus you can integrate different things into the notion page and it's like a little visual blog for every area of my life.

Gracey (00:55:15) - Also, one of those things that I didn't really love until I really dove into all the features of it. I like notion too. Awesome. And I like templates like the template marketplace, where you can find other people's notions and then kind of use them in your life. So I like that too.

Josh (00:55:31) - Awesome. Love it. Okay. All right, Gracey, final question. Who is somebody that you admire or respect the most in the e-commerce space that other people should be following and why?

Gracey (00:55:42) - Okay, I wonder if other people on your podcast have also said this name because she is so iconic and she's so amazing. I owe her everything Amy Wees.

Josh (00:55:53) - , yes. Amy's great. I mean, I know Amy. Yeah, she's been on the podcast.

Gracey (00:55:59) - Okay, perfect, perfect. So hopefully everyone's already following her, but I just, she's such a mentor figure to me. And aside from the way that she's just been a light in my life, a mentor, a friend, like a coworker, associate, whatever it may be, she is always so giving, always willing to help, always interested in, like introducing people, connecting people.

Gracey (00:56:23) - She's the reason I've met so many people in this industry. She's the reason I discovered so many things. She recommended books. She recommended a book to me called The Inner Work. If you want another book recommendation from me, it's called The Inner Work. And she also is just like, if anybody posts something on social media that's like, oh, I'm going through this. I'm asking for help on this. I will always find Amy's comment and she's so she's like, call me anytime. Like, I will talk to you. I will be there for you. And that especially with how busy people get and how unwilling to share their time with people, get like, she's just been such an amazing friend, an amazing person to know. So my hat is Amy.

Josh (00:57:02) - I can echo all of those sentiments, so we'll have to download this video, give it to her. She'll like that., all right, Gracey, this has been awesome. If people want to follow along in your journey, they want to reach out to you.

Josh (00:57:17) - They might have a few questions for you. Where could people follow along?

Gracey (00:57:22) - , my social media is deal cheats, deal cheats. If you're looking for Amazon deals and if you have any questions, my email is contact at deal cheats.com.

Josh (00:57:34) - All right. There you have it. Well, Gracey, thanks for pulling back the curtain, helping us understand what you see from the world of an influencer on the other side of the deals, as we are brand owners. I think this has been super informative. And I've got a long list of notes. So thank you for your time today.

Gracey (00:57:52) - Thank you, Josh, for having me.