This week I’m talking to a wonderful teacher and colleague - Naureen Hunani. I’ve known Naureen in a professional capacity for a while now, so it was cool to get to sit down with her and talk about some more personal stuff. Naureen and I talk about finding out that you’re neurodivergent later-in-life, the invalidation and gaslighting of being called ‘highly functioning’. Naureen tells us how she nourishes a family who have different needs when it comes to food and feeding, and how she is rejecting expectations that feeding has to look a certain way. And then we get into what it’s like to be a highly sensitive person who feels things others are feeling. And how being a highly feeling person under capitalism inevitably leads to burnout. Oh and of course, how she’s nourishing herself. This is such a special conversation - it just feels really restorative.

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Here’s the transcript in full.

Naureen Hunani  I think a lot of that, for me, comes from the fact that I had to really truly embrace and accept other parts of their development, right? When it comes to language or motor differences. And so we can't really pick and choose right, like, to me, you know, if I say I'm going to fully accept and embrace who my children are like, I cannot be selective in terms of which parts I'm going to embrace and which parts I'm not going to embrace, right?

Laura Thomas  Hey, and welcome to the Can I Have Another Snack? podcast, where I'm asking my guests who or what they're nourishing right now and who or what is nourishing them. I'm Laura Thomas, an anti-diet Registered Nutritionist and author of the Can I Have Another Snack? newsletter. Today I'm talking to one of my colleagues and teachers, Naureen Hunani. Naureen is someone I've known for a little while now in a professional capacity and whom I've had the privilege of learning a lot from, so it was really cool to sit down with her and learn more about her on a more personal level. Naureen is very well known and loved in the world of responsive feeding. But for anyone who doesn't hang out in that space, Naureen is a multiply neurodivergent, registered dietitian with over 17 years of experience. She is the founder of RDs for neurodiversity, and neurodiversity informed online continuing educational platform for dieticians, and helping professionals. She has a private practice in Montreal, Canada, where she treats children, adults and families struggling with various feeding and eating challenges through a trauma informed way, inclusive and anti oppressive approach. This is such a special conversation, it just feels really restorative. Naureen and I talk about finding out that you're neurodivergent later in life, the invalidation and gaslighting of being called highly functioning. Naureen tells us about how she nourishes a family who have different needs when it comes to food and feeding, and how she is rejecting expectations that feeding has to look a certain way. And then we get into what it's like to be a highly sensitive person who feels things that others are feeling and how being a highly feeling person under capitalism inevitably leads to burnout. This is a really rich and meaningful conversation. I really hope you get a lot from it. But just before we get to Naureen, I wanted to let you know that you are listening to the long edit of this episode. From October, I'll be publishing a shorter edit here in your podcast player feed, and a special longer edit for paid subscribers of the Can I Have Another Snack podcast, just as a little bonus for supporting my work. You'll also get weekly discussion threads, my dear Laura column, and lots of other fun perks. You can head to laurathomas.substack.com to subscribe. It's just five pounds a month or 50 pounds for the year. And if that is inaccessible to you please email hello@laurathomasphd.co.uk for a comp subscription. I'm keeping all the content on Can I Have Another Snack free for the month of September, and turning on the paid community features and paid subscriber-only columns from October. If you value this work you can help keep it sustainable by becoming a paid subscriber. And last thing, if you enjoyed this episode, I would really really appreciate it if you could support me by rating and reviewing in your podcast player, and maybe even sharing it with a friend. It makes such a huge difference to a new podcast. You can also find a full transcript of this episode over on substack again at laurathomas.substack.com. And I would really love it if you wanted to leave a comment over there to let us know what you thought of this episode and to keep the conversation going. All right, team. Here's Naureen. 

Laura Thomas  I wanted to start out by asking you who or what are you nourishing right now?

Naureen Hunani  I really love this question. And you know, the first thing that comes I guess to my mind is like my role in nourishing my family. Right? So who am I nourishing? And, you know, I think about being a mother to two neurodivergent children, you know, obviously food is there right? That's a huge part of parenting and one of the probably the toughest jobs you know, feeding a family can be difficult for a variety of reasons. But I'm also thinking about, like you know, different ways I nourish my children when it comes to nourishing their curiosity and their development and just growth in general. Right? It's interesting because I have always been a very sensitive person. So putting others first because I just feel a lot. And that's, you know, very, I guess common for a lot of us, you know, neurodivergent moms like, we just feel so much. So what that does, sometimes it's just you want to, you know, prioritise other people's needs, because you feel so much of what the person is going through their pain, or suffering and all of their needs. And sometimes what happens is that, you know, we don't prioritise our needs, and that's something I've been exploring a lot in the last little while is, you know, how can I nourish myself better, and you know, that it's something that I'm still kind of exploring, this is really new to me, you know, prioritising my needs, and you know, what they are, and giving myself the permission to be who I am and nourish different parts of who I am, you know, my different identities. So I am a South Asian, immigrant woman living in North America, I'm a late diagnosed, you know, multiply neurodivergent person. I also have a non-apparent, physical disability. So, you know, figuring out all of those parts, and of course, also how they interact with my work as well, like being a dietitian, and working in a profession where the majority of dietitians don't look like me. And so yeah, like, how do I best nourish the humans I work with, my family, but also like, you know, meet my needs, nourish my passions. Yeah.

Laura Thomas  I think that's such a complex and tricky thing to try and unpack and figure out how to do, particularly when you're a parent, and I'm sort of speaking from my own experiences here. And I'm curious to talk to other parents, particularly mothers about, you know, they had a similar experience were when they became a parent, and I know your kids are a little older now than mine who's two but there is a sort of experience of, I don't want to say losing your identity, because I think that's a really problematic narrative but there is the shift this huge shift in identity. And, you know, I'm hearing you talk about how your identity sits at the intersection of lots of marginalised identities as well. Hmm. I'm just curious to hear your experiences of that transition to motherhood to parenthood, and how that sort of interacted with all of these other identities. And yeah how do you figure that out, because I guess, ultimately, selfishly, Naureen, I'm trying to figure that out.

Naureen Hunani  And aren't we all? Are we all trying to figure that one out? Honestly, and this is like, I feel like I love this question. It feels like therapy. Honestly, it is, you know, I think that, you know, for me, and I can speak about my experience, like becoming a mother, like triggered a whole bunch of stuff, things that were just kind of tucked away from childhood and, you know, my body changing and also, you know, being neurodivergent, like, I was able to manage somewhat, okay, you know, masking and trying hard enough, and just, you know, doing my day to day stuff, but then becoming a mother, it's like, wow, like the executive functioning, you know, differences really started to show up in the multitasking and all of that, and then also questioning, you know, when you look, I have come from a family of neurodivergent you know, folks, many of them are not diagnosed. And I, you know, I find that advocating for my children who are neurodivergent, you know, that that is also very, very difficult when, when we live in this society, so I feel like being a mother, like becoming a mother really pushed me to grow and really explore those pieces that are just kind of there but not taking care of as a human. And I feel like, you know, also coming from a lot of trauma and childhood trauma, trying to raise my children in a way that aligns with my values. You know, it also helps me heal my inner child, right? Doing things that I do for my kids and giving them permission to be who they are. It is so healing. It is so incredibly healing and it has been incredibly difficult as well because growth is painful, right? And yeah, you do change like your  identity, who you are, you know, your priorities like, like, they change a lot of changes in very short period of time in my children have, you know, they really pushed me to look at things differently, my work has changed completely, I was ready to exit my career, you know, in a way, I feel like my children kind of saved that, you know, because of their feeding differences and my interest in, you know, learning more about feeding differences and how to support my kids, and then a, you know, started to support more and more families in my practice with feeding differences. So it's been a tiring journey, but a wonderful journey for sure.

Laura Thomas  I mean, I'm personally very grateful to your kids for kind of, you know, nudging you down that path, because I've learned so much from you, professionally, and I know that, you know, your career pivoted towards your, you know, working with neurodivergent kids and families. And yeah, I've learned so much from you. So I'm grateful for that. So many, like threads that I want to pick up on. But so just so I'm kind of following things in, in my own mind. So you said you were late diagnosed multiply neurodivergent. So was that prior to becoming a mother? It sounds like it was, but I just kind of was trying to put that together?

Naureen Hunani  No, it wasn't. So really, what ended up happening was when my son was two, about two years old, we felt like he was developing differently. And we went to, you know, get a professional diagnosis. And then after that my daughter was born. And she's also neurodivergent. And then, you know, I started kind of questioning, you know, my own identity. And I've always felt very different. Even as a child, I've had very unique interests, compared to other kids. And so I've known this about myself that I am very different. But I didn't really know, you know, what that was, until very recently, so just a couple of years ago, I went, you know, to get a diagnosis and get some support there. And, you know, I also want to mention that, you know, a lot of what I have learned is not necessarily coming from, you know, providers or people who do assessments. It's really, from the neurodiversity community, right? So moms that are in the neurodivergent community talking about their different challenges, and like, oh, yeah, I can relate, I can relate there. Oh, yeah, so. So this is something like really, that I explored after my children were diagnosed. Because we know that, you know, typically neurodivergence runs in families. So it is something that, you know, my children have inherited from me, most likely, but yeah, so that's, that's what led me to, to kind of explore a little bit more. Yeah. 

Laura Thomas  Yeah, so they kind of tipped you off, that something might be going on for you that that led you to, and what I hear is you kind of touching on the complexities of getting a diagnosis as,

Naureen Hunani  Oh! Yeah, that is a really, you know, it is very difficult, especially for, for women to get a diagnosis. You know, I actually was diagnosed with ADHD, like a while back, and I was seeing a therapist at that time, who totally dismissed that diagnosis, and was like, no, no, this is probably not right. Because, I mean, you went to school, and you did very well in school, and you went to, you know, a good University and graduated with distinction. And that just is not possible that you have ADHD. And so, you know, it was like, over the years, and then so I just kind of let go of that for years. I'm like, No, you know, what, no, like this is me, I'm like, I'm going to embrace this identity. And, yeah, like, it's very difficult to actually even get a diagnosis, because a lot of the studies were done in, you know, boys. Neurodivergence looks very different in women. You know, we mask, we have a tendency to mask socially, we pick up on a lot more of those cues. And, you know, compared to, to boys and men in general, and so like, it's very difficult. If you are married or in a relationship and if you are working or have a career, or if you have children, then it's like, no, you know, you cannot be neurodivergent because you're quote unquote, functioning okay, whatever that means.

Laura Thomas  I hear this story so often from friends where they notice that their kids are developing differently and go to get them checked out, the kids ultimately get a diagnosis as neurodivergent. And then the parent, usually the mother starts kind of questioning what might be going on for them. And they go to the doctor, and they're like, Well, no, you're too high functioning.

Naureen Hunani  I know. Exactly. You know, like, what does that mean? Like, what does that even mean? Right, like, you're too high functioning, like functioning labels, we know are assigned by how others view, you know, neurodivergent people, it's such an invalidating experience, because I was struggling a lot, honestly.

Laura Thomas  And can we just talk about the trauma of living in capitalism and how you are forced, you have no choice but to be productive.

Naureen Hunani  Exactly, right. So surviving under capitalism looks different for different people, depending on your, your, the resources, you have access to care, you know, resiliency, like I mean, it looks different for different people. And I remember, you know, always like having difficulties and struggling and it's not like, I didn't struggle in school, I mean, I, I just worked really, really, really, really hard. So hard that like, I barely went out, you know, so hard that I could barely sleep, I had severe anxiety. But when you look at just the end result, well this person is doing well, in school, they don't need help, but like it, you know, it took everything out of me to be able to graduate, it was a lot of work. And work that, you know, like, extra work that other people didn't have to do, you know. And even like a mother like when I, when I became a mother, like, the sensory experience is just so intense. And again, you know, when you're just looking at well, you are, you're doing okay, you're able to feed your children, you know, they're there, they're doing, quote unquote, fine, whatever that means, you know, and you're doing fine, and everything's okay, like you're doing, you don't need help, you don't need support. Right? So it's really difficult, because we're trying to do our best, right, and we're trying to survive, but because we're, it looks like we are okay, and surviving, we don't get the support. And that typically leads to like burnout for a lot of women. A lot of mothers.

Laura Thomas  Yeah. This, you're describing this, like a really invalidating experience where, you know, it's sort of this, really kind of like this, I'm imagining sort of a spiral of, you don't get the help and support you need. And so you have no choice but to continue to, you know, do everything you can to survive, override your own needs, and, and then ultimately lead to burnout. That's so, so tough. I want to kind of sort of in the vein of meeting needs of, of neurodivergent folks, I know that you have two little neurodivergent kiddos at home, and you used the phrase feeding differences earlier. And I suspect that that might be a new term for some people. I wonder if you could share what that means to you and to your family? And yeah, what feeding and food is like for you?

Naureen Hunani  Yeah. So, you know, it's so interesting, because, you know, as adults, like we bring in so much of our past into, you know, feeding and that's something I fully recognise, you know, growing up, I was raised in a family that, you know, really celebrated food, my, my dad had a restaurant business and travelled a lot and, you know, exposed us to so many different types of food, food from like, all over the world, I started cooking at a very young age, and never really followed any recipes, partly because now I know that because it's really difficult for ADHDers to do that, but also because I, I actually am able to taste all the ingredients in a recipe and replicate it pretty much without having a recipe. And so that's how I've learned to cook. And, and then, you know, I have kids who basically, you know, from the beginning showed different types of interests, you know, interest in and preferred foods that they they basically would eat for long periods, both of my kids because, you know, they develop differently. It did impact their eating and feeding as well, because that's part of development too, right? And so I guess some people might call this selective eating or picky eating a term I don't love or even ARFID. But, you know, I, the way I see this is that well, when a person, you know, is neurodivergent, and their neurodivergent traits impact their eating, right, it's just a difference, right? Like all the other differences that we see in terms of communication, or socialising, right, it's a difference and so that's how I have kind of raised my kiddos and never even used the term picky at home. And, you know, my son is 11 now and he came up to me the other day, and he's like, you know, my friend told me that I'm picky. Like, what does that mean?

Laura Thomas  I am so glad that he's been shielded from that.

Naureen Hunani  Yeah, I was like, well, actually, no, like, you just, you know, you eat food that you enjoy. And so that's just, it's personal. There's nothing picky about that. Like, it's just, uh, you know, you eat food that you tolerate, that you enjoy, that you love. And that's, that's not necessarily picky. Right. And he's like, oh yeah, that makes sense. So, yeah, and, you know, like, I think that, like, what has been super liberating for me is really accepting this idea that, you know, enjoyment looks different, right, for different people. And so this idea that just because I like a certain type of music, like I cannot expect my children to, like that type of music, right, like, and so it's the same with food, right? Like, there are certain foods I enjoy. I'm a sensory seeker. I love mixed textures, my children, not so much. And so, you know, letting go of a lot of these, like ableist beliefs, you know, that eating has to look a certain way, has been super liberating.

Laura Thomas  And has that always been your experience knowing that you were a sensory seeker? Or when you were younger did eating look more similar to what it does for your children? I'm just wondering if that.. 

Naureen Hunani  Yes. We change. And, we develop and we continue to grow. And, you know, that looks different for different people. So, you know, it's so interesting, you asked me that question, because I remember as a kid, being petrified of certain foods on my plate, and I remember my mom being extremely responsive, so we eat like, you know, a lot of spices, and we add a lot of whole spices and little pieces. And so you would see cloves, you know, or cardamom, and that would really, really, like scare me looking at that. And like, you know, when eating dal, which is like a lentil soup, because I'm like, what is the suspicious looking thing? Right, like, please take that out. And so my mom was super responsive. And, you know, I guess I'm lucky because that's culturally, that's how a lot of South Asians feed their children. Like, we are very responsive. And we really look at where our children are okay eating, what they're not okay, eating. And so there's no force feeding, there's no, you know, there are no like expectations, and we just accommodate and adopt until our children just kind of learn to eat those things. And then everybody kind of enjoys the same food if possible. So that's how I was raised. And I remember even looking at, like papaya, for example. Like when I cut it, the seeds really, really, like, freak me out. And so I love eating papaya, but I can't look at the seeds for too long, because it really petrifies so, you know, but in terms of the sensory seeking component, like, even that came, you know, I think over time, because I remember, there were, you know, as a child that there were like, little pieces of tomatoes or something in rice like I would, I would take that out or ask my mom, but now those things don't really bother me. And it's so beautiful to see my children kind of, you know, develop the same way, like, where you know, like certain things they weren't okay with now they're okay with and it's just, it's just, it's amazing to kind of witness that when we don't have a hidden agenda, we can really, truly appreciate our child's development, right? It's just so full of surprises. And I think that I find that to be such a beautiful thing.

Laura Thomas  And that's so kind of almost antithetical to what most, the information that most parents get, or I know, something that you talk a lot about is well, this phenomenon of where children present with feeding differences that it gets immediately pathologized and they get sent to feeding therapies that end up sort of in a lot of ways, making the problem worse, or in really extreme cases, traumatising the child, and so it sounds like, you know, I don't know if this was just your, your instinct or kind of from doing some research and looking into it, but it seems like you were just able to kind of allow them to explore food on their own terms and in their own time. And that has led, I'm not saying that they're, you know, I don't know, that they're the most adventurous eaters in the world, but that they are expanding their sort of repertoire as it were on their own terms.

Naureen Hunani  Yes, I think a lot of that, for me, comes from the fact that I had to really, truly embrace and accept other parts of their development, right? When it comes to language or motor differences. And so we can't really pick and choose right when, like, to me, you know, if I say I'm going to fully accept and embrace who my children are, like, I cannot be selective in terms of which parts I'm going to embrace, and which parts I'm not going to embrace. Right? So I think that, it also it's something that, you know, for me, like, I guess it came, it was more natural, because, culturally, this is something that, you know, a lot of, I've seen a lot of my elders do, you know, when it comes to feeding, so there's just more acceptance. You know, I didn't grow up with these, like, super rigid milestones, and children being sent to like clinics, and there's just a lot more flexibility and an acceptance in terms of like when a child walks and when a child crawls, and what the child eats. And so it's different. And I think it's very common in a lot of indigenous cultures, as well. So I think that, that probably helped me and my family a lot. Not to say that, you know, milestones are completely useless. But I think we have to be very, very critical.

Laura Thomas  Yeah. No, I hear that there, you know, even just like, I remember when Avery was very young, being in the playground, and he was a couple of months older than some of my friends, babies, and them really like, comparing their babies to him. And I don't even know what it is. But I just remember thinking at the time that like, Well, why, you know, they're all on their own timelines, on their own timeframes. But there is so much pressure to, you know, meet these sort of, they're not completely arbitrary milestones, but there is a degree of arbitrariness to them. And I also understand that they can be an important screening tool for kids that might need additional supports. There was something that really kind of struck a chord with me, when you talked about fully accepting your children. And I was just thinking about the parallels there with what we see oftentimes in diet culture that parents kind of, can be so loving and accepting of everything about their child, but then when it comes to their weight, this is not accusation of an individual parent, but, you know, an indictment on the system that we're living in this, this anti FAT system. And I just wondered if you had any thoughts on that? 

Naureen Hunani  Yes, you know, I, I think that our society puts a lot of pressure on parents when it comes to feeding what to feed, how to feed, it's really, really difficult I find for parents in you know, we all want our children to be accepted and loved, right. And we know that children in larger bodies are more likely to experience trauma to experience bullying, right. And then when we mix, you know, like in healthism and you know, how we have this pressure to raise healthy children, you know, whatever that means, it can get so, so complicated, right? And of course, you know, medical providers can also feed into that stress as well because we know that weight bias is a thing, right? Parents of children you know, in larger bodies have a very difficult time at doctor appointments, right, there's so much pressure. So I think that you know, a lot of those messages that parents get, you know, from the outside world, including, you know, medical professionals, a lot of those messages are internalised. Right? And it becomes really difficult to feed in a responsive way. Because, you know, everything is controlled, right? In our society, our bodies are policed, and you know what we're eating, and then eventually, parents, you know, start hearing comments, and then you feel like a terrible parent, right? If your child doesn't eat a certain way, or doesn't look a certain way, and people blame you. That perhaps it has to do with your parenting, that your parenting your child wrong. You know? It's hard to have a lot of empathy and compassion for parents, I think it's really, really difficult. And, you know, we know that kids come in, you know, all sizes, adults, you know, as well. And we also know that, well, people are allowed to have preferences when it comes to food. But I think what ends up happening is, at some point, we have to kind of let go of this idea that what our children do in life, whether it's career or, you know, has really nothing to do with us, you know, and it's the same with food and eating. Like, if I like a certain food, I cannot, there's no way I can convince or force or even expose my children to like the same food. It's just, it just doesn't work like that.

Laura Thomas  Yeah, I'm really interested to hear your thoughts on all of that. And I think, yeah, feeding kids is hard. Being a parent is so hard. And yeah, I have so much. I think, being on the other side of it, you know, before becoming a parent, it was really easy to sit there and judge. But being on this side of it. Yeah, no, I...

Naureen Hunani  Exactly. We're all doing our best, we're all trying to survive. And, you know, it is hard. I think we have to have more compassion, you know, for each other. I think that, you know, it's, it's just very, very complex. Right?

Laura Thomas  I want to go back to something you mentioned earlier, Naureen, you talked about, you mentioned the word intuition. And I think it was sort of in relation to your elders, and coming from an indigenous culture. And you also mentioned earlier, being a highly sensitive person, and I'm just wondering if those things are connected for you. And if you could speak to your experiences around being a highly sensitive person? 

Naureen Hunani  Yes. I mean, I think that it's interesting, because, you know, I was that kid who would just cry. Right, I remember or just like, hide behind my mom, I remember, like, even in social settings, the shy, the shy kid and just taking in too much and just feeling a lot, you know, and it's so interesting, often, and I, after having conversation with other neurodivergent women, you know, we often feel things that others are feeling before they even know what they're feeling. And that's very difficult. It's a lot. And I think that, you know, it's, we know, now actually, you know, that how neurodivergent people neurocept, it's very different, like, we just take in a lot more information from, from our environment, that includes all the sensory stuff too, right. So we just feel a lot more in we also feel emotions, very, like, you know, intensely. And so that's part of sensory processing, too, because emotions are part of the interoception and interoceptive awareness, right. So that can, you know, in a way, it's, it can be a gift, right, we're able to be more sensitive and compassionate, and all of that, but sometimes it can be very overwhelming, as well. Right? And this is something that I've had to kind of learn to live with, and, you know, setting boundaries, spending more time doing things that bring me joy, that are calming, and really being more aware of my experiences and what my body is feeling as well. You know, to me, this is something that like, I'm learning to understand if that makes any sense. But, you know, I know I've always had these experiences, but now it's more about okay, well, yes, this is how my body experiences certain things. How do I make sure that my body is okay?

Laura Thomas  I'm just sitting with this idea of how I think a lot of us sort of, I guess I'm thinking about this through the lens of embodiment. And I think so many of us really are so attuned to other people, and really like, you know, deeply feel things. But I guess I'm thinking about this idea of how that gets sort of pushed down or pushed to the side and kind of bulldozed over, hadn't really thought about this idea until we were talking. So it's not fully formed, but just again, how we are expected to hustle and just keep on going and just keep pushing and how we, I don't know if we lose touch with our senses, or if they get kind of, they kind of pop out in other ways. But I don't know, do you, do you have a sense of what I'm trying to say here?

Naureen Hunani  Yeah, like, I mean, you know, it's so interesting, because we do live in a society that's very selective when it comes to sensitivity. So if a person being sensitive is somehow benefiting others, great, you know lovely, but if that sensitivity is, you know, really impacting the person who is sensitive, and who's having these, like, you know, embodied experiences, and if they need support, right, then no, like, you're too sensitive now. Like, we only want you to be sensitive enough to be able to help others. But the minute you need help, well now you're asking for too much.

Laura Thomas  Yeah, that's interesting. I feel like I need to go and give that some more thought. And I have been thinking a lot lately about my experiences around being highly sensitive. So that's why it kind of feels kind of relevant for me.

Naureen Hunani  Yeah. And it's like everything else. Like, you know, when we're trying to survive in a capitalist society. So like, the extraction of labour from us, extraction of labour from sensitive people, when it's beneficial to others. Right, and how that's utilised and taken advantage of in our society, but then when we are, you know, genuinely open about our experiences, then okay, well, yeah, that's, that's just you're being too much, or, you know, you're exaggerating, or your reactions don't match what's happening in your life, and so, yeah, there are so many, so many layers there for sure.

Laura Thomas  And also just, you know, thinking about what you just said, there's also this kind of conundrum doesn't even you know, it's not even a strong enough word for what I mean here, but because we are all the labour is extracted from us, as you say, and we are expected to produce produce, produce constantly. And that's how we show that we're valuable, that will inevitably lead to burnout. But then when we ask for what we need around rest, recuperation, you know, restoring our sensory system, that there is nowhere to go. 

Naureen Hunani  No, yeah, yeah, you're right. You're right, when we're asked for exactly because that seen, it's, we're not allowed to rest. We are, you know, we're just forced to keep going. And that's something that I think we have to like, collectively just start challenging. You know, rest shouldn't be something radical. But we need to, you know, I think we really have to challenge all these ideas. Absolutely, yeah. 

Laura Thomas  I want to go kind of bring it back full circle almost. And you, you said at the beginning that you are learning how to meet your own needs. And sort of the other question that I wanted to ask, as well as, who or what are you nourishing that we started with at the very beginning, I'd like to know who or what is nourishing you? 

Naureen Hunani  Yes, my family, my children. You know, my husband, the friends that I have, my radical colleagues who are doing really great work. Also in nature, I find being outdoors to be a very nourishing and soothing experience. And, yeah, I think that, you know, I'm really being mindful of the little, little things in life that nourish me, you know, being more mindful of the little things that bring me bring me joy and really, you know, trying to be, you know, more present, which can be hard for a lot of neurodivergent people because, you know, we're, there's a lot going on in our brains all at once. It's hard to focus sometimes on what's happening in the present moment. And that's why I find nature to be so nice, because it really, really pushes you to just stop and be in the moment. And really, you know, take in all that, you know, beautiful sensory experience.

Laura Thomas  Yeah, yeah, I love that. And I wanted to add one other thing, if that's okay, I'm sort of answering your question for you. Or maybe it's an additional question, but maybe more reflection, but when I think of you, my mind instantly goes to community. I think you touched on it when you talked about your radical colleagues, but I wonder if you could, yeah, maybe expand on that?

Naureen Hunani  Yes, community is so important. Honestly, I find that's how we heal. And I really believe, you know, that, I wouldn't be where I am, without, you know, the work of neurodivergent elders, without the work of, you know, disabled elders. And, you know, I think that, for me, it's been an incredibly healing experience to be around people that have similar experiences, you know, similar identities, I find that incredibly, incredibly valuable. And we don't really talk about that so much, I find, you know, what, but I think it's so important to be around people who, you know, accept us for who we are, we can be truly ourselves, where we can unmask, right. And to be able to make mistakes, where, and people are not necessarily judging us, right. So I think that's really, really, really important and valuable. And, and I'm hoping to create a little bit of that in my work as well, because I know that there are so many providers, you know, that also, identify as such as, you know, sensitive and are neurodivergent. And there really isn't a lot out there for us. So I think that, you know, we have to make more of an effort to create these types of, you know, spaces.

Laura Thomas  Yeah, no, I think it's something that you do so well, that you're very thoughtful and considered on your creating the sort of professional spaces, at least from, from my experience, and I know, you're not necessarily talking about professional spaces, but yeah, I always feel very welcome. And sort of, I don't know, you have a very soothing quality to you. Naureen. I've really enjoyed speaking with you. But we are towards the end. And we wrap up by sharing what we're snacking on at the moment. And that can, it's just a sort of recommendation that you have for the listeners, it can be a book, it can be a movie, or a show, or, you know, an actual snack if you want, what do you have for us.

Naureen Hunani  Yes, in terms of food, like I really enjoy crunchy textures, and like I've been just really enjoying snacking on like, plantain chips. I'm really loving those. And I also have a tendency to snack when I'm standing. So that's how I typically like to snack, I sit down for my meals, but like I like to snack when I'm, you know, on my feet. In terms of a book I just finished actually listening to a really, really incredible book called Care Work: Dreaming Disability Justice by Leah Lakshmi. And that book, really, you know, being someone who's neurodivergent, and also disabled, like, to me, it was an incredibly, you know, validating experience. So that's what I've been snacking on. I have a whole bunch of other books that are kind of sitting here with me that I'm hoping to find time to read at some point. Yeah.

Laura Thomas  Oh, that sounds really excellent. And I'll make sure to link to that in the show notes so other folks can check it out as well. So my recommendation is sort of food adjacent. I suppose. It's a YouTube show. I've been kind of like getting into YouTube shows, and it's on the Food 52 channel. It's called Cook and a Half. I don't know if you've heard of it. But it's by someone called, so it's a cook called Samantha Seneviratne. Sorry, I think I butchered her name, but basically she cooks with her like four year old alongside her. The most adorable thing. It's chaotic and carnage and it's all the things that you would think cooking with a four year old to be but it's also really sweet and really fun. And so like, given the state of the world I need, like nice shows to watch. So if you are looking for a nice, like, soothing, calming grounding, show that's just easy to watch, then this is definitely one for you. Was there anything else that you wanted to share before we go Naureen?

Naureen Hunani  I wanted to thank you for having me. Really, I think this has been like a really lovely experience. And, you know, I guess one thing, you know, for those who are sensitive and identify as, you know, sensitive folks, I think that we really, we bring so much to this world. And I think we really, really have to, you know, also reflect on our needs. And like I mentioned earlier, you know what, I've been exploring, and, you know, finding time, you know, to rest and really prioritising those needs of ours that really, you know, bring us joy and peace. Yeah.

Laura Thomas  Yeah, that's such a lovely sentiment to leave on. Thank you so much, Naureen. 

Laura Thomas  Thank you so much for listening to this week's episode of Can I Have Another Snack? If you enjoyed this episode, please take a moment to rate and review in your podcast player and head over to laurathomas.substack.com for the full transcript of this conversation, plus links we discussed in the episode and how you can find out more about this week's guest. While you're over there, consider signing up for either a free or paid subscription Can I Have Another Snack? newsletter, where I'm exploring topics around bodies, identity and appetite, especially as it relates to parenting. Also, it's totally cool if you're not a parent, you're welcome too. We're building a really awesome community of cool, creative and smart people who are committed to ending the tyranny of body shame and intergenerational transmission of disordered eating. Can I Have Another Snack? is hosted by me, Laura Thomas, edited by Joeli Kelly, our funky artwork is by Caitlin Preyser. And the music is by Jason Barkhouse. And lastly Fiona Bray keeps me on track and makes sure this episode gets out every week. This episode wouldn't be possible without your support. So thank you for being here and valuing my work and I'll catch you next week.

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