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Gut Check Project
Trailer
Bonus
Episode 57
Season 1
BrocElite: Naturally Anti-Cancer...
0:00
Hello KBMD health family and gut check project fans welcome to episode number 44. This episode's very special because we have is many of y'all know with my co host here, Dr. Kenneth Brown, he's only selected three products to be a part of his own store Atrantil, and CBD Of course, which has his own KB MD CBD label on it. But today, we're actually only going to talk about one. And that re ally was shot through seeing. So see that but this is
0:32
Broc Elite today.
0:33
It's all about Broc Elite. These are stable sulforaphanes. And we are joined with David Phd. No, David Roberts, John Gildea, saying that's why that's why I have a co host. That's why he has me one of the to David Roberts and John Gildea, john, good day being the PhD for Broc Elite. And Welcome, gentlemen, thank you all so much for meeting us this afternoon.
0:56
That's your tip.
0:57
It's good to be here. Thanks for having us.
0:59
So john, is if you're looking at the YouTube is the first voice that you heard in the purple shirt. And then David is the one in the buttoned up. So hello, there's David. So, Dr. Brown, you want to take us into the fourth year of introducing these two?
1:13
Absolutely. So all the only reason why I have three products on my website is because it's three products backed by science we do certificate of analysis and all these things we were introduced to Brock Elite through baby bathwater networks. And we had our first zoom call many months ago where I have been so excited about sulforaphanes as a supplement and finding out that these two brilliant men figured out how to actually make what I tell my patients is the world's first stable sulforaphane developed in science and been able to show clinically and through laboratory testing that you can increase the NRF two pathway. Now you and I did a whole episode on NRF. Two, in anticipation of trying to get these two guys together. Correct, which like typical entrepreneurs, and typical PhDs, they got a lot going on. And john did inform us I'm sorry, john, do you go by Dr. Gildea? Do you go by john? Do you just go by Dr. Brock elite?
2:23
My dad was a physician. So I I'm fine with a PhD John. Not a physician. So yeah, the doctor.
2:34
So when you write that when you write PhD, John, do people come up to him and go, John, John, your appointment is now available?
2:44
Yeah, some some some of my students call me dr. john. But that's, that's just them being kind of silly.
2:50
Well, this is something that is not silly at all. And what I'm really excited to talk about is how you guys got here, how you guys got to know each other. But I know that we have a little bit of limited time with you as the PhD. What I want you to at least explain while we have some availability with you, is why you decided to help David, develop this product and the lab that you have that?
3:21
Yeah, absolutely. I think the at least the crux of it was that when, during a commercial adventure that we're trying to do to figure out how to do personalized medicine. We have an arsenal of of compounds that we would try by culturing the cells from New grown from the person who had the cancer and then and then putting these bevy of pharmaceutical compounds on the, on the cells. And pretty soon after we have been doing that for a while. Sulforaphane kept on coming out really high on on the on the list, and it's because it attacks a specific type of cancer, cancer stem cell. And I know that's not even on people's minds right now. But that is the cell type that goes on to create metastasis. And we're all surprised that there wasn't a sulforaphane product out there. And so that combination of seeing this gigantic need, working with people had these cancer stem cell driven, driven cancers. We weren't we we knew that you know, you can buy the $650 for five milligram sulforaphane from from Sigma but that way, you know, one treatment would have been, you know, 1200 dollars to give person that. And so that was when we started trying to figure out how to make it and stabilize it. We grew up broccoli sprouts for a long time, got really good at that. scaled it up enough so that we could help help out one person at a time really. But, you know, from that we started down the journey of trying to figure out how to make it into a pill. Because a lot of people can't can't eat, you know, the, the cup of broccoli sprouts, that's necessary to get the right dose and, and so worked on that for a long time and then and then figured out how to stabilize it.
5:30
If you don't mind just to kind of paint the picture here. If everyone's not caught up. Brock Elite i derives its name because it's from broccoli sprouts, and it's elite because correct me if I'm wrong, john, but you essentially have the only stable so fear of fame delivery system available in capsules, in other words, and in other terms you can find so if you're a fan of different supplements, etc, on various platforms, some that rhyme or sound like a jungle, and they probably aren't the same. or certainly don't perform actively, like what we would find your broccoli does that correct?
6:09
Yeah, so the this sort of, I would guess the marketing hitch here is that they re coined an old name. The precursor to sulforaphane is called glucoraphanin. Correct. And so they changed the name of that to
6:29
sulforaphane glucosinolate. Yeah. Okay.
6:32
So that is the new marketing term, okay, because we're gonna I went, when I tell my patients, the first thing that they do, I say, Listen, I really think that for whatever reason, and I have a bunch of medical reasons why I want their NRF two pathway to go up. First thing they do is go I went on Amazon, and I found this sprout product that's $12. And I'm like, that's glucoraphanin and then that takes me down a rabbit hole. Can you just explain really quick, why glucoraphanin is not the same thing as so perfect.
7:00
So glucoraphanin is stable, and it's waterside long. It's relatively easy to isolate. And has been available for a long time, but you have to convert it through an enzymatic reaction. In order to make sulforaphane but then the sulforaphane is unstable. So you can make it all you want, but it's only going to stick around for you know, a day or so. So you can't put it in bottle and package it and get it out there. So that was that was sort of the magic because it is making the stable sulforaphane. And also along the way we were we're testing lots of other cruciferous vegetables and sort of the the added benefit was that we found that process that we landed on actually stabilizes all the, the isothiocyanates that's the term for all of the ingredients in in these cruciferous vegetables that are good for you. So like, you know, bok choy and, and watercress and, and cabbage, they all have their own individual combination of isothiocyanates. And so we found in testing in the laboratory that sulforaphane and another isothiocyanate from watercress called PITC act synergistically. And we basically used the most stringent test that you can do in order to measure for synergy. Just dilute the dilute the one compound sulforaphane until you see no response. And then you you dilute the PITC. Until you see no response. And then if you combine the two, and you see your response, you know that it's synergistic. So actually, the two primary compounds in our product acts synergistically. So even if someone else had a for fame, stabilized product, ours is going to outperform it.
9:05
That's awesome. So the beauty of this is we're leading with the science first because we're going to spend the rest of the time talking to David about the history how this all came to fruition and everything, which I find to be a very fascinating story. But it's a rare opportunity to talk with somebody with your knowledge about how you discovered to do these tests, and which is what I it's just it's so exciting to me that I could sit there and say you did these tests, first in a lab. So as you started to do this, did you have access to the lab immediately? Did you build anything as the business was being developed? How did you augment from a scientific standpoint, the whole process to try
9:49
probably ferret out within more but
9:52
we have a lab in my house.
9:55
I really get really
9:58
not That's
10:00
actually Eric actually makes propofol in his bathtub. And that's what we use to sedate our patients so fully understand that. That's not true as a joke.
10:15
It does not say that on the permission slip.
10:19
We actually, when we were doing wanting to do personalized medicine and not the shotgun approach, we purchased a decent amount of equipment we had in order to do cell base studies. And we did this actually moved all of my boys, my boys play room, they were three and five. And we moved their toys out in the lab in the playground. So
10:51
I'm sorry, I'm sorry, David. JOHN, just real quick, I know that I just wanted to grab you before you left. But chemically and speaking as a PhD, obviously, the reason why you've turned to broccoli and other cruciferous vegetables is because of what they had inside of them. Correct. And so if people consume broccoli, or cauliflower or Brussel, sprouts, etc, they essentially are a part of that same family. But what happens specifically, if someone were to want to eat them, whether mature or youngest sprouts, and then whether they be cooked or raw? And then tell us a little bit why it's kind of an incredible discovery to be able to put sulforaphanes into something like broccoli?
11:37
Yes, there's a lot of papers that delve into the try to optimize getting sulforaphane from broccoli, where, you know, they talk about how many minutes in, in a, in a microwave or, or steamed for a certain amount of time and things like that. And suffice it to say it's just a, it's a give and take. So the enzyme that will create sulforaphane needs a bunch of cofactors for it, and there's that forward reaction, but there's also reverse reaction, and you're always in a compromise. So it's being created, and it's being destroyed all the time. And, and sort of without getting into the specifics of it, we figured out how to make it only go to the right and, and and then afterwards, it's it's stable. So anytime that you're eating any cruciferous vegetable, you have to crush it and eat it so that you're releasing the precursor glucoraphanin to get in contact with the the enzyme
12:52
morosa burns from Myrosinase
12:54
Marissa. And then. And then the problem with that is that as soon as you eat it, they're your digestion will destroy the enzyme. And that's the same problem with consuming a pill that has the enzyme. And the precursor is that you know, a good portion of that enzyme is destroyed, because it's a protein and most proteins are digested in during digestion. So there's not much Myrosinase around to convert into glucoraphanin precursor into the final product. So yeah, that's the that's sort of the Battle of everyone is is doing and you do get some and but it's it's that reverse reaction that's kind of really blowing it for everybody.
13:44
Well, something that sounds really interesting to me is is that I know from talking to you earlier that y'all basically put put it to the test where we can theorize how things work in vitro, but you're able to deliver and use broccoli and tell us about how you're able to actually test the levels of the bioavailability of severe things. That way, we know that it's actually getting to where we want it to work.
14:08
Yeah, I've read at least I think I've read just about every paper out there on sulforaphane. And I never saw a paper that actually shows that it's working in a person, you know, other than whatever the clinical study that they're using. They saw, you know, changes in the clinical study. But the actual about chemistry test is to see that the interest to the active molecule is to accumulate NSL and translocate into the nucleus. So the test that we did was we took just a normal dose of of our Brock Elite product, and then in a couple of hours, we isolated cells from the cheek swab and then did beforehand and after after taking the product. And measuring by immunofluorescence, the cumulation of NRF, two in the nucleus and showed that the dose that's in our pill actually caused an induction of NRF. Two in in cells and a person. And the nice thing about it was that you can take those same cells and do an invitro assay in a dish, and then put on the pure sulforaphane, you know, the $650 per gram, five gram from from Sigma. And then do this thing, do a titration. And say, how much sulforaphane at that cell creates this response. And actually, the, the amount of sulforaphane that was put on the cells, five, Mike, five micro mole produced the same amount as our oral Brock Elite that we took. So we actually know that the amount of sulforaphane that gets to the cell, or the sulforaphane equivalent is at five micromolar, which is an amount that has been shown in you know, thousands of papers to be functional.
16:14
So in essence, they were able to show that they could activate NRF2 pathway.
16:17
Yeah, so dr. john, let me ask you, when you did these studies, and I, I know that you even tested yourself when you were taking it and you checked it, what was the timeframe like the the area under the curve when it finally popped up? And you were able to show that so I'm thinking from a gastroenterologist standpoint, where does it get absorbed? How much it's broken down? That kind of thing?
16:38
It's been it's been a little while since I did it, but I think it was, is either two or four hours, two hours. And from the literature, you people have measured sulforaphane in the bloodstream. Fahy group has done it from serum a number of times and measure the actual molecule in blood. And, you know, its its peak is around, you know, two to four hours. So we knew that that would be a good place to start. And so we saw a really robust response. And the first time we did,
17:15
and I don't remember if it was a fakie article, or one of your articles, but you did show that the second dose had a more, as you say, robust response. Can you discuss the big dosing?
17:29
Yes. So the notion behind that is really interesting. There's a number of mouse studies that show that not only just get interrupt to induction through, you know, the separation NRF two from keep one, so that it's it's enough to become stable, or it's blocked from being degraded. But one of the things that people don't know is that NRF two, regulates its its own gene products. So when you get an RF to induction, it goes and turns on the transcription of NRF. Two, that's a It's a unique molecule on that, when NRF two is turned on, it goes back to its own promoter and self promoter. And even beyond that, after you get this induction that stays on for as long as 72 hours. There's even another level on top of that, which is epigenetic, just kind of where the name of our lab came from. episodul ABS it's an epigenetic I mentioned. Nice. Yeah. interrupt to stays on as long as as much as six months after taking it for
18:43
weeks. Just really quick. Just explain what epi genetic response means.
18:48
Yeah, so genetics is, in general, what you would think of is, say you had a mutation and Gene, you get a phenotype in the DNA? Well, a lot of biology is actually created by the expression of the RNA of the whole plethora of genes expression in sort of the orchestra of what a cell is supposed to do. And epigenetics is the maintenance of transcriptional on and off states of a cell. So you can change the, the on and off state of a whole bunch of cells for the long term after you stimulate sulforaphane for just a matter of weeks. So that's kind of one of the brilliant things about NRF two.
19:35
So you had we had discussed this and you use the term I believe it was pleiotropic. we're describing because it almost seems too good to be true. But now when you say it's an epigenetic phenomenon, when you turn your NRF two pathway on, there are lots of downstream positive effects that can happen. And do you believe it's the epigenetic phenomenon or is it just turning Get on with the body, then does the it has so much it's um, you know, the NRF two pathway, we did a whole episode on it because it is it. It's something that nobody's talking about you guys are discussing it on a cellular level, which is amazing, which is why I really like everything that you have done, you started with a lab with the science working your way back, and now it's become a product in a bottle that I can give to people. So the whole aspect of my saying it right, pleiotropic? Or is that the right?
20:34
Yes, pleiotropic is a term used to cover this idea that NRF two turns on numerous classes of genes. So it turns on a whole bunch of genes that regulate detoxification, and it turns on a whole bunch of genes that are antioxidants. And then yeah, there's there's numerous groups of genes and, and then inflammation as well. So NF Kappa b. So being able to turn on those three different pathways that are all in all three of them are involved in many, many, many, or maybe all chronic diseases. This is sort of the magic and the juice. And that I think the other the other aspect that a lot of people don't realize is that, you know, the reason that reactive oxygen species became famous was that it did long term damage, and everyone knew that it was involved in chronic disease. Well, now in sort of hindsight is when you get hydrogen peroxide, or a lot of these reactive oxygen species being turned on I it at times, like viruses are known to turn off interested. So the actual thing that is broken, that is causing the chronic disease in the first place is low NRF. Two, and then turning it back on, obviously should should help a lot of those states.
22:03
And I love that you describe the whole how you figured out that murasame as the the enzymatic pathway can go forward or backwards, very similar. If there is chronic inflammation, it can shut down the NRF. Two, when really when you have chronic inflammation, you got to figure out how to get that up to stop the chronic inflammation. So I have this discussion with my patients that have either the propensity for autoimmune disease, or they have an autoimmune disease. And I try and explain it that I really would like a combination of a polyphenolic blend plus Brock Elite so that we can tip that scale back. So your NRF two can come up. So that it's sort of the seesaw of that. So that's the way you describe them Ross is going back and forth. It's a fine line. And as a society, I feel like we're all chronically employed.
22:53
Yeah, that's for sure. And then that that balance that's going on, that's pretty well established in the autoimmune disease world is that there's, there's some event that precedes autoimmunity. And whatever it is, whether it's you know, have a season without sleeping, or you have a viral infection, or you're, you know, someone in your family died, you know, they're all manifests the same way they it's, it's a genomic instability, inflammation, in all these processes that are involved in basically every chronic disease progression. And what's interesting is those those exact things are the things that you have to address to reverse any chronic disease. So, you know, a good baseline to start from would be to activator and f2. And like you said, you know, probably just following it would be NF Kappa b and inflammation.
23:58
One One quick, hopefully, it's quick, but it may not be. There was a paper or study that came out last year that the Ken and I both ran across that talked about that some cancers, try to essentially commandeer the NRF two pathway to basically kind of shield themselves from from destruction, and that way they kind of hide what kind of role would so if you're a vein supplementation, play in this where the NRF two pathway gene, or that expression is somewhat mutated, is there? Is there a role where severe pains can basically return us or? I don't know You take it from there.
24:40
Yeah, I've thought a lot about that. That role in general is, you know, the selfishness of a cancer. And, as opposed to a normal cell, which is, you know, thinking globally, it's, it's, it's trying to protect the whole organism that you surfing of f2 is, is basically, if you can ramp up your detox of a single cell, basically, the reason that that is, is such a bad thing is because you're throwing toxins at it to try and kill it. But if that cell is now robust, in that, you know, those two man, you know, detox machine at that point, then you know, those toxins that that's how you define successful, you know, treatment of cancer is that cell is, is not killed by the thing that you're throwing at it. That's how you define it. But basically, you know, we haven't found a cell line yet that if you throw so forth, and added it doesn't kill it so so that that specific scenario that you're describing is very true. And, and is part of the mechanism of cancer progression. But it isn't, it isn't this in a holistic way, NRF two works in a normal cell. So all the normal cells are going to be fighting to get rid of that cancer as well. So now on both fronts, it kills the cancer and it's making the cells that normally are working against the cancer, or better your immune system, your support cells,
26:21
especially the cells that are not tainted are the ones who are able now to better defend themselves by having a stronger interest is mutated on
26:30
that whole, that whole business of, of, you know, hijacking, blocking the immune system from getting to the cancer. So is also another aspect of of, you know, having a really brilliant immune system if you're trying to fight cancer.
26:46
Sure. No, that makes sense.
26:49
It's interesting, because as I've been using this in patients, the comments that have been told to me, so I'm trying to tell my patients you've got you're at risk for XYZ, cancer, autoimmune, and then I've had people come back and they purchase more, because they're like, you know, it's really interesting, giving it to my husband who has early dementia, and he appears to be doing better with it. And I'm like, that's interesting, okay. And then I can say, well, that would make sense from an if you increase in RF too. And once again, we're not saying that if you take a supplement this happens, but we do know that if you can increase a pathway known as the NRF, two pathway, then this can do certain things. So I'm seeing success with my patients in neuro inflammatory processes, which is a lot of things. I kind of got a giggle a little giggle out of this, because I heard David on a podcast, and he was talking about sleep and increased dreams. And I am a total believer in that. It's part of my sleep routine. And I'm putting people on it for sleep. And I don't I don't wear my aura ring anymore. I used to but because now I just I wake up and I'm like, Whoa, those are some cool dreams. Yes. And so they're asleep. And I'm like, how in the world does that play into that? And then from a gastroenterology standpoint, I've got two patients that failed multiple rounds of heavy antibiotics to treat H. pylori. And then ultimately, I'm like, Look, if you want to try something natural, and we do atrantil to plus Brock Elite, I'll try and teal is a poly phenolic blend that has some antimicrobial activity. And then broccoli when I heard who's the guy he just mentioned at Hopkins, that Fei Fegi, he had discussed that they have done some research on directly with H. pylori, and I've got two people that failed multiple rounds of traditional antibiotics that are now clear. Oh, okay, this is really cool. Like, this is some really neat stuff that's going on. And as I'm listening to you, I love it. Because although it may be it may be a little overwhelming for somebody hearing this or it's just like, okay, I just want the public to know how much work and how much science went into it before it ever became a product in a bottle. And that's so commendable. And so cool. And I, you know, you are where'd you get your PhD? It was a school heard of John's Johns Hopkins? Is that hope instead of college? I think they've, I don't know, I'm not really sure if they play football. I'm gonna have to look at that because of a football. So you're so so you got your PhD at Johns Hopkins, which is no joke and all the people that have done a lot of the research on sulforaphane like fe II have done a lot of that and when you were talking about the cost of stable glucose, stable sulforaphane, that even they admit that they can't do a whole lot of studies on it because it's just cost prohibitive. So what you've done is you've put lightning in a bottle and Very impressive. That is so cool. And you guys continue to do research on this, right? I mean, thinking of synergistic molecules to put with it. That's nuts.
30:11
Yeah, so definitely, always, always marching forward slowly. And definitely that target of NF Kappa V is a big one. We have our our list of compounds we really want bioavailable. So,
30:26
just really quick, you've said NF Kappa b a couple times we hear about NF Kappa b when it comes to inflammation, and certainly in this pandemic, that we're in NF Kappa b plays a big role, can you just explain what NF Kappa b does downstream
30:41
instead of NF Kappa b is the is the master regulator of inflammation. So inflammation is important in fighting, fighting a know your bacterial invasion, you get you you recruit your entire immune system to to attack a site and take care of an infection. The problem in the chronic disease state is that you get NF Kappa b. Induction, which leads to this cytokines released. And so even though there isn't an infection in this chronic inflammation state, your immune system is going and and invading that organ. And so the way the immune system works in that, in that case is it does a lot of damage just does bystander damage, inflammation and fiber optic response as well. So that's the that's the target is to try and keep this inflammatory state the chronic inflammatory state at bay that needs to be pushed back slightly. And sulforaphane does inhibit NF Kappa b. We measured it in, in urine and a clinical study measured interleukin six, which is a canonical target for NF Kappa b. So supporting does inhibit NF Kappa b, but there are molecules more powerful. curcumin is kind of high on high on our list.
32:19
Yeah. I can talk more about that. I we should probably let John go. Given his
32:25
Yeah, that that that we only have john for five minutes turned into a 20 Minute. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. I
32:32
don't want to get him in trouble.
32:33
Yeah. So much. It was great.
32:36
JOHN, it was it was great. Again, thank you so much, and super impressed with all the work you're doing. And I love that you too, have teamed up you and David to produce something which I think is going to do remarkable things for people. It's certainly doing incredible things for my patients. So
32:50
yeah, thank you. Yeah, it's, it's a, it's something that fell into our lap was the correct circumstances, where, you know, it's always comes from, you know, a need, and then someone who's precious to you, and I mean, a lot of powerful things happen from that.
33:07
That's awesome. It's PhD john Gill day. Thank you, PhD, john. We appreciate it. And we're gonna hang out here with David with with rock elite as well, and certainly appreciate it. We'll have you back on again here shortly.
33:21
Thanks. Awesome. Thanks, john. Appreciate your time. Yeah.
33:24
Well, David, I've just been sitting there all quietly I know.
33:27
So now this is the now though. Now the backstory? Yeah, let's figure out how in the world you got that guy to sit next to you in the first place.
33:39
We're gonna be situate
33:45
around centering the camera. Nicely done. Done. So David, all that science didn't happen for no reason. Yeah, here there is that there's a large story that brought you near and dear to what it is that you did to to basically found what is now Brock Elite. I don't care how far back you want to go. But just
34:06
yeah. And and just for the record, I can't I do have a background in science, not like John's, but I can talk probably a decent amount about about Sulforaphane. But from because that's we talk about all the time, so and the backstory. My wife was diagnosed with breast cancer in 2012. And she was very determined to to treat it naturally. And at least not doing chemotherapy. And so we did a lot of reading and actually met john the first week, some of providentially and would talk to him regularly lay about papers I was reading. Anyway, fast forward. In March, our Mars cancer spread. And we're realizing that what we were doing wasn't working. And so we really decided we can't like, we get an excuse, we can't do a kind of a shotgun approach, we needed to know that something was working. And so we end up getting some cancer cells growing them in this lab we put together and and then john created this battery of supplements, to and what he would do is he put the supplements on normal cells, the renal proximal to the cells that we purchased, and then also the cancer cells that he was able to grow. And the goal was to kill the cancer without killing the normal cells. And so and so, yeah, software affine was was a top three and killing Maurice steps cancer, went to buy it, and then realized it didn't actually, it wasn't out there. So that was when we started growing. A lot of broccoli sprouts, brought broccoli By the way, Eric, you said, it's broccoli sprouts that we that that brought broccoli comes from the seed, so we don't actually sprout? Because it's, it's a it's a pain. Yeah,
36:46
I've actually tried to grow it and it makes your whole house smell like.
36:49
Yeah, it's, it's crazy. To be committed. So. But anyway, yeah, so. So we did that. And we would do some actually. So we have probably enough, we had enough sprouting material to probably 10 families. And so when you would use them with carrots and ginger and Apple, probably not Apple, but but everything was fresh. We threw some we actually all the the seat seats that we sprouted, we actually sprouted radish too, because it's back and radishes high and naturally high moroseness, which converts it. Yeah, everything converts. And then. So yeah, we did that for a long time. And, and, and it's kind of John's goal had been to stabilize this because as he says the literature was crying out for a stable form of the molecule. And so he kind of you would meet for lunch regularly. And just like, yeah, I think I have a stable form of it. And so can we get a test? I was like, yeah, so we get it tested at a third party lab, and found that we had it, you know, that he had stabilized it. And at that point, my wife was still alive and was like, we gotta, you know, this is amazing. We got to get this out to people because she knew how, you know how many people really needed it. And so yeah, that was that's kind of a, a portion of the backstory.
38:40
So thank you for sharing that with us. So in 2012, Mara, your wife, yes, diagnosed. And then as you were trying to treat as a team, meaning husband, wife, she said you need to keep doing this. And during the, during her cancer process, you were trying to figure out this stuff. That's pretty, it's pretty emotional and pretty tough.
39:05
Yeah. She did banned me from bringing journal articles to bed. I did that for several weeks. And she was like, Ah, so But yeah, I mean, you know, I have a science background. So it was it was it's, you know, she was going to she want to do it that way. You know, I wanted to support her the, our promise to each other was that it had to be backed by science. It couldn't just be loosey goosey. And and so, yeah, and that that's kind of how actually the our, our first supplement company or store was was founded, because we met the doctor who gave it to us and, and we were like, he was like, take this and like, well, what is it? It's like water. I don't know. But it's good for And I'm like, gosh, like, you know, I don't I just met you. So, so actually, john was able to figure out what it would what it did. And so we I bet it would be, first of all that what wasn't poisonous, you know? And then second of all, that actually is really good for you. So that was that was kind of the genesis of that as well. So So this all your endeavor into the whole supplement industry started with that, or were you part of the Restore company before or stars founded through what I just said. So basically, it wasn't even a story. It was a it was a, it was a white, unlabeled bottle that with a sharpie worked on it. And there's like, take this, and I'm like, dude, like that this goes against what we promised each other. This is like, there's no science. Sure, you know? And so, you know, you, you sound nice. But I'm going to figure out what this does before my wife takes it. Yeah. So then we found out that it was actually amazing. And then actually, that that comes with that company was formed.
41:27
So were you the CEO, that company
41:29
net. Okay, were you invited on personally, and then hope to get it off the ground.
41:36
Because I also on a, there's there's a scientific aspect, which is really fascinating. To me. There's the emotional personal aspect, which is equally fascinating. And then as somebody who also is involved on a business side of a supplement company, that's also intriguing to me also, so the, how, how I made this sort of thing is exciting. from that aspect, going from there to here, going from there to have this that I can hold. Yeah, there's always,
42:08
but yeah, we would. We would, you know, so you you got sprouts, they're strong, they're bitter. They, they're awful, actually. But they're potent, right. And so they're really good for you. And we would use them. So it wouldn't just be like a little it would be like, a ton. of and so it's like a massive dose. And, and once John, you know, figured out how to stabilize it, we would basically make these little basically would have a 15 lm a it was it was a liquid first. It was and and like a shot. It would Yeah, 15 ml, and this liquid extract, and then we put 15 ml of Lime juice and a packet of stevia, just shake it up, and then just down it. Like, I mean, and then we had actually another friend of ours, really could have benefited from that. I mean, she was really sick and couldn't take it. Mark could she could she could take it for the longest time. And then it just it but it's just, it's It was awful. So we knew we had to transition it into a capsule. But unfortunately, that happened after after Martha died in September of 2017. So we at that point shortly after that, you know, after we were kind of shell shock, kind of got it together and then figured out how to dry it and stay you know, in a stable risk. Yeah. So yeah, if you guys come to Charlottesville, you have to see a walk in and walk through when people walk through like, like, no, like, we made everything out like nothing. It's it's all unique. So
44:19
so that's what makes it so unique and hidden sort of the proprietary thing and how it's stabilized is because you guys actually develop the equipment to do this and figure out the process and all
44:30
that more process and piecemeal equipment it's already around Yeah.
44:37
First of all, I'm sorry that your wife passed away and I'm commend you to sticking true to your path and having this as her legacy and the millions and people that you can help because this all started. Yeah, out of out of the goal to help.
44:55
Yeah, I mean, we're we're hopeful that people are getting helped. And we do get a lot of testimonials not probably as many as you guys, but they they're starting to come in and yeah, and it's just like, Alright, that's, that's, that's really amazing to hear people and what they, you know what they, how it impacts them.
45:22
So Brock elite itself, you're talking about the number of testimonials, the brand the label the the name when did this actually take foot in and get into this bottle for to be available?
45:35
Yeah, that was we went to market in April of 2018.
45:41
Okay. So roughly two years we're is we're in the late part of 2020 on this particular recording. And so in two years, you've, you've obviously linked up with with Brown and his clinic we've got, I don't know how many patients who've begun to take it now. sleep better, feel better. Do better top to bottom? What where do you see? How do you see getting the message of broccoli and the importances of sulfuric veins as it empowers one's NRF? Two pathway? Because it's a lot. I mean, it's unfortunately it's a it's a lot of it's a lot of words and letters and not everybody talks about.
46:21
There's a we talked about this, there's so many similarities where first you have to explain a very complex, unique pathway that people aren't talking about. And we talked about this today, we're like, Why in the world? Aren't we talking more about the NRF two pathway, especially in the setting of immune health. And then the second thing is how in the world you climb over this giant wall of 2000 supplements that claim to do it. But we know just like dr. john mentioned that glucoraphanin is not a stable sulforaphane. So that's hurdle one is I need to explain why this can help you hurdle two is I need to explain why the $6 bottle from XYZ company is really not the same thing. And then hurdle three is this is a long play for you. So it isn't that your immediate ankle pain will get better, which is it's the Society of immediate gratification. So there's lots of similarities when when I deal with medicine, and I'm trying to get patients to stick to a regimen or something for a long time. From a business perspective. I'm curious how you're approaching that.
47:35
Yeah, well, I mean, the great thing about broccoli is a lot of people take it feel the difference. B and john alluded to the kind of clinical a pre clinical trial we were doing where we did on aisle six. And so basically, we did a three day study, we did baseline, day one proceeded to, and then broccoli, day three is is blinded. And to fit your ends into basically from in, there's no change in our six levels from baseline to placebo, but there was basically 24 hours from taking the one dose of Brock Elite, a 30% decrease in Aisle six, in 24 hours. So that's enough, you can feel and that was one dose
48:31
one goes decreased. So aisle six is interleukin six, which happens to be an inflammatory cytokine, which sets off a cascade Yeah, that currently, many pharmaceuticals are trying to block in this pandemic that we're in because we know that that could be the first cytokine that can set off a cascade. So it's fascinating that by increasing the NRF two pathway, it just puts everything kind of in balance.
49:00
So So yeah, it works. I mean, they're they're, they're related, they're but they're two distinct pathways. So it works with NRF. Two, what does work with NF Kappa b as well and which is upstream from or downstream from IO sticks. And so, yeah, it works in both and but that's in the literature. And you know, we we have done our own internal but the great thing about so karafin is all the little I mean, there are already 2000 articles out there so it's like we don't have to really do anything I'm unlike with store, we had to we had to do everything you know, but with software event, it's already out there. And so you don't have to, you know, believe us we just can shoot we just Schmidt our main portal is showing that it's actually we have so paraffin in the in the bottle and the capsule and from you know from a marketing standpoint We're about to get over I think we've, it's, it's, we don't have a lot of the product because it's really backbreaking hard, it's hard to make. It's and that's why it costs so much, because it's we're kind of what we do most everything by hand. And we're transitioning as we grow. But, you know, it's, it's hard, it's difficult to make and, and stabilize, but it, but yet we're doing it and we're slowly figuring out how to scale it. But right now, like, we don't want to market time, because we can't, we don't have enough. You couldn't even supply our city, let alone and you know, and so. So yeah, right now. We are, you know, making it as fast as we can. And, and so yeah, the the drying process is is is for going through, look at the solid is difficult, and we think we've cracked the code on that is not a patented process. It's we decided to keep it traces trade secret ID six trade secret process. So that's hopefully was a good decision. But we figured, you know, it had been around for a lot of smart people for a pretty long time. So it's probably pretty safe.
51:36
So something else to think about. And I don't want to make you talk off label about the brand, because we know that's not the kind of trouble that anybody wants. So let's just talk about sulforaphanes specifically. There is a different product, I believe it's used over in Europe, correct that they use for prostate, prostate cancer. Yes, prostophins. And then there's also some, some pretty deep studies that talk about lymphoma, there is the diffuse B cell lymphoma, as well as follicular lymphoma, which actually I've got a cousin who was recently diagnosed with that. So if your offense have been shown in repeated different clinical trials or studies to essentially activate that NRF two pathway to help those who basically have a managed cancer status. Is that something that else that kind of drew, maybe John to it whenever he began to test those cells, the cancer cells with the normal cells to make sure that so if you're if it was one of those compounds,
52:44
is that what your question is?
52:47
Kind of rambling? I just don't realize that. Like that.
52:51
All right. Let me give the backstory today. We were sitting there talking, a cousin contacted him it was recently diagnosed with follicular lymphoma. And then his initial response was, Oh, my gosh, can taking sulforaphane help that Ben we found some articles which said specifically the treatment of certain Hodgkin's lymphomas and flicklock almost not not non Hodgkins. Sorry, non Hodgkins lymphoma. They have looked at sulforaphane looking at that. And so then it was one of those things. It's like, Oh, so I called up a couple oncology friends. And they were unaware of this. They're unaware of that pathway. And so for a friend being there, and it just it, it gets us, you know, talking where it's like, wow, this is something that the literature is out there, you just have to go digging a little bit somebody has done it. And it's, it's, as in this space, with the FDA regulated type thing. It's as you know, you cannot say certain things, but the, but the pathway is there, you're not
53:56
doing laughing because he knows that it's hard to get rid of talk. This is what leads to rambling questions. I'm just gonna help Ken out, because now he's rambling
54:06
down and you're like, why don't you? Yeah.
54:13
So, you know, I can say that every cancer is different. And that's the bottom line. You can have two non Hodgkins lymphomas, you can have two, you know, breast cancers which are described medically the same that are completely different, right? They just are I mean, and so you know, John's put, you're talking about still purifying as a chemical that he got from Sigma Aldrich and then talking about cancer cells, not people you know, he's put a decent amount of stuff sheriffin Cancer cells and, and they typically it's not 100%, but they typically respond pretty well. And, and pathway wise. You know, there's, when you have cancer, you feel really bad, and there's a lot of inflammation that's going on that canister is shedding. And just just from that product that can help with inflammation would be great. If that was just it. That would, that would be it. You'd feel better, you know,
55:34
really like how you said that reset each cancer, even if it has the same name can behave completely different because oncology friends, they've got protocols, and it's, you know, this is this protocol, oh, this person got cured, this person did not do another protocol, oh, this person did this. And then you start going down. I've never thought of it that way that just because we're calling it colon cancer, not all colon cancers are going to respond. And so you're exactly right. Each individual is completely different. I love the way that you guys started the business as a cell specific line. And can we make it as an individual treatment by taking the cells the fact that you took more cells, put it there with the renal cells to make sure it's non toxic first, then let's see what works. That's brilliant.
56:23
that was John. So yeah. Yeah, I call John the cell whisperer, because he can grow like nobody, nobody, I really believe. I mean, this is not an overstatement. Nobody can do what he can do. And that the fact that he has a, he's just kind of manufactory. Yeah, to coat people swab and measure. And after he came up with that, you there's no nobody like you can read about NRF two be measured. But if you read how they're doing it, it's like an ordeal like, and he has a very quick, quick procedure that he came up with. He came up with the, his background before he went to Hopkins. He actually, if you guys remember the anthrax scare back in the early 2000s,
57:13
mailing of the an anthrax,
57:15
it came out he himself designed the five minute anthrax test, you could try, you can measure it. So that's sort of his, what he enjoys doing what he's good at is tests. So
57:31
what do you enjoy doing?
57:34
Wow, I love what I'm doing here. People are like, What's your dream job? This is it. I love the science, I love doing something that's worthwhile. And we're kind of peeling an onion, you know, because we know a lot probably, you know, we know quite a bit. But we're learning every day, every day about sulforaphane and you know, different things that we want to be doing with it.
58:12
Instead, it's just very exciting.
The smartest people are always on a quest for knowledge. It never stops. Yeah, never ever stops. But I will say, I'm going to pull the curtain back a little bit here, David, and that is that for every guest that we have on the show, we send out a questionnaire and ask various things like favorite drink and favorite band and different things like that. David left both of those blank. So I'm going to assign that your favorite drink is flavored Waterloo, which is mine also. And just simply because of John's work, I'm going to say your favorite band is anthrax.
Yes.
58:53
Awesome. So as you're peeling this onion recently went to your website, you got a few other products pretty cool you guys using similar technology and a few other which would typically be very on absorbable molecules, you're doing something cool. We got the perk elite, the berberine elite, and my missing one.
59:19
Those those are ones that we're we've been working on. We're just plying for the patent for the curcumin one. So that will hopefully it was approved, your patent will start releasing that it's currently not for sale. But then, yes, and that that's really exciting. And the berberine so Berg leads, which I think we're going to rename but we'll see is a burn as with that because that but it's for you know, blood glucose. So you know people Kido just from my background with Mara, I was like the sugar Nazi. I mean, every bit of sugar was counted, you know. And so the goal was to have less than 20 grams a day. And so we early on people hate stevia, but, or stevia how everyone loves it. But uh, yeah, we, and we didn't like it very much. But now it's just like, it's what my kids have grown up with. And we don't just no sugar, no sugar, so the sugar is evil. So we're, we're just the berberine, especially at night is important because melatonin blocks your ability to if you have a night meal flexibilities for the, for the glucose to process, so that I'll just drop it. And so that's, you know, exciting. So we're, we're actually had that on the market and are doing some more testing to refine it right now. So it's not currently for sale, either our a little bit
1:01:11
cellularly you're referencing sugar isn't? Didn't they say that? They don't have to gene actually can be mutated more rapidly with with refined sugars being present, isn't that correct?
1:01:24
I've not read that. So yeah, I don't doubt it. I'm just saying I'm not. I'm not familiar with that study. So, so yeah, I mean, it's pro inflammatory. A lot of the refined sugars, if people ask me, there's one, you know, because the cancer with my wife, if there's one, one food that you just one that you recommend, stop eating and love, and I get that an ordinate amount? Like, I love the question because it's quick. It's just like high fructose corn syrup.
1:02:09
high fructose corn syrup
1:02:10
there's corn syrup, the one thing I would say if you worry about cancer, don't don't eat things with high fructose corn syrup. And a close second is soybean oil, soybean. And that's in everything to so that today I just had ordered a organic hamburger from one of my favorite places and trucks. So I said hold the muster or hold the Manet's and hold the pickles. Pickles have hyper source corn syrup Manet's is made with with soybean oil. If you the reason why salads are so bad for you, it's not the lettuce, it's the dressing dressing less, it's organic, it's made with soybean oil. And so when the question comes, you know, I give them one thing, but I also go through things. And the reason both of those items soybeans, and corn from Tim, that makes high fructose corn syrup are genetically modified, the jag modification is there so that the plants can receive a roundup and not die. And that kills the weeds and allows in theory for a better yield of the plants of the crops. And most of the glyphosate gets washed away in the rain and stuff, but trace amounts get left on the plan. And that actually, because, you know, if you if you have one small amount of glyphosate, it doesn't matter, but it's in everything. And so there's this bio accumulation effect from being exposed to it non stop, and it actually your gut, your gut guy. It's insidious with the gut. A lot of actually had some friends move from Lebanon. And now that was like, watch out what you eat here. Because the food that you eat here, even though it's called the same thing, you're going to have got issues and they did. They're like, David, how, and then they get got issues. And then I'm like, seriously, and so they actually started watching what they're eating and refined. But glyphosate, the amount of glyphosate you can get in one fast food meal. It can drop your inner tube pathway 30% we mentioned that boom, that 30% basically turns off your ability to detox. So glyphosate is basically the mother of toxins that makes every toxin more toxic. And so That's, that's one of the pieces of research that john did. Like I said, also, we're talking about the ability for cells to connect, and, and can communicate through gap junctions. And each cell in the body is connected to other cells through a communication network called gap junctions, those gap junctions allow cells to be functionally coupled, they act like an organism versus individual cells. And so that's when cells lose their way, and become cancerous and that sort of thing, those cells don't communicate, and they lose their ability to act like in the organism. And so john also showed that the glyphosate reduces the ability of the gap junctions to communicate by 30%, or 30%. So that's enough that that lack of communication, all sorts of things can go wrong.
1:06:11
So we don't need to eat anything that's GMO, we don't need to eat anything with high fructose corn syrup. We don't need anything with soybean oil. These are things that essentially what you're saying, David, if I understand correctly, these are things that could exacerbate or even introduce or stimulate cancer growth and cancer cell. The the the oncogene gets activated, basically, when we consume these kinds of foods.
1:06:37
There's a Yes, yes. Yeah.
1:06:41
It's bad. It's bad news. Yes. Well, David, thanks for fighting through about three technical difficulties on here. And thank you to Paul for who put all this together and make it seem seamless. What What an awesome product, I couldn't be happier for this to have been only product number three that we've brought to KB MD health. And it's something that I know that can I both firmly believe in? We love what it does, for those who who use it, including me and my family. And just thanks so much for the time, and thanks to you and your wife for having the the passion to do what you did here.
1:07:20
Yeah, well, it's my pleasure. And looking forward to coming back on another point I do want to throw in, I will be talking about glyphosate. The reason we're doing that research was to show that sulfuric fen actually negates it brings or brings in our to back. So let's say depresses enough to but if you do play the glyphosate and so parafin brings it back to normal level.
1:07:57
So if I go to McDonald's, and I say, hold the pickles in the mayonnaise, and then I just opened capsules of Brock Elite over the actual hamburger, I should be cool, right? No,
1:08:12
no, we're not gonna but but and then also with gap junctions, that communication is reestablished with software offensive that the gap junction function gets re established so the that's the reason we were doing that those studies was to show the the insidiousness of the state but also that not to use it the way you just described that is actually a big deal. So but yeah, it's great to be here. Thank you guys so much for what you are doing in promoting health too and it's a it's a
1:08:49
you know, it's it's really fun to talk to bench researcher like dr. John to talk to you that has an extreme passion to get this out there for the right reasons doing the right science behind it with the right motivation and then me as a clinician getting to see the one to one responses that I get from my patients it's it's it's an honor for me to look my patients in the eye and say, I know these guys did their homework. I feel like we at KBS research really try and science up the whole nutraceutical thing and make sure that otcs have a lot of science and you are both you guys are shaming me because the science you guys do is insane, Wow, yeah, that is awesome. I want to thank you for everything. Where can where can people connect with you? Where can they find Brock Elite, and so on. Yeah.
1:09:44
So BrocElite.com and can go on there and we have an online store. So go ahead and buy it there. And we'll it's the best way to do
BrocElite.com
1:10:06
Yeah. And so I will tell everyone that's listening that as a clinician, I see tremendous effects with this. I am a little bit scared when you were saying it's a laborious process. And when you invited us down Do you intend us to put us to work when we come visit? Like you invite people to help with the laborious process?
1:10:26
No, no, we'll just take you to some, some of our favorite restaurants that have clean eating,
1:10:32
nice, clean eating and no and no mayo. Nice.
1:10:36
Yeah, man. So yeah, and hopefully, as people are listening to this, maybe we can do a coupon code we talked about that as well.
1:10:48
Absolutely. Yes. If you're if you're catching this podcast through video, or just if there's someone shared it to you go to KBMDhealth.com. Or just gut check project calm and you can connect not only with us, but David and dr. john Broc elite. We'll have all of those things available both in coupon redemptions, more information, data, data, data is what drives everything that David and John do. David, thank you so much everyone, like and share gut check project, Episode Number 44
Transcribed by https://otter.ai
Hello KBMD health family and gut check project fans welcome to episode number 44. This episode's very special because we have is many of y'all know with my co host here, Dr. Kenneth Brown, he's only selected three products to be a part of his own store Atrantil, and CBD Of course, which has his own KB MD CBD label on it. But today, we're actually only going to talk about one. And that re ally was shot through seeing. So see that but this is
0:32
Broc Elite today.
0:33
It's all about Broc Elite. These are stable sulforaphanes. And we are joined with David Phd. No, David Roberts, John Gildea, saying that's why that's why I have a co host. That's why he has me one of the to David Roberts and John Gildea, john, good day being the PhD for Broc Elite. And Welcome, gentlemen, thank you all so much for meeting us this afternoon.
0:56
That's your tip.
0:57
It's good to be here. Thanks for having us.
0:59
So john, is if you're looking at the YouTube is the first voice that you heard in the purple shirt. And then David is the one in the buttoned up. So hello, there's David. So, Dr. Brown, you want to take us into the fourth year of introducing these two?
1:13
Absolutely. So all the only reason why I have three products on my website is because it's three products backed by science we do certificate of analysis and all these things we were introduced to Brock Elite through baby bathwater networks. And we had our first zoom call many months ago where I have been so excited about sulforaphanes as a supplement and finding out that these two brilliant men figured out how to actually make what I tell my patients is the world's first stable sulforaphane developed in science and been able to show clinically and through laboratory testing that you can increase the NRF two pathway. Now you and I did a whole episode on NRF. Two, in anticipation of trying to get these two guys together. Correct, which like typical entrepreneurs, and typical PhDs, they got a lot going on. And john did inform us I'm sorry, john, do you go by Dr. Gildea? Do you go by john? Do you just go by Dr. Brock elite?
2:23
My dad was a physician. So I I'm fine with a PhD John. Not a physician. So yeah, the doctor.
2:34
So when you write that when you write PhD, John, do people come up to him and go, John, John, your appointment is now available?
2:44
Yeah, some some some of my students call me dr. john. But that's, that's just them being kind of silly.
2:50
Well, this is something that is not silly at all. And what I'm really excited to talk about is how you guys got here, how you guys got to know each other. But I know that we have a little bit of limited time with you as the PhD. What I want you to at least explain while we have some availability with you, is why you decided to help David, develop this product and the lab that you have that?
3:21
Yeah, absolutely. I think the at least the crux of it was that when, during a commercial adventure that we're trying to do to figure out how to do personalized medicine. We have an arsenal of of compounds that we would try by culturing the cells from New grown from the person who had the cancer and then and then putting these bevy of pharmaceutical compounds on the, on the cells. And pretty soon after we have been doing that for a while. Sulforaphane kept on coming out really high on on the on the list, and it's because it attacks a specific type of cancer, cancer stem cell. And I know that's not even on people's minds right now. But that is the cell type that goes on to create metastasis. And we're all surprised that there wasn't a sulforaphane product out there. And so that combination of seeing this gigantic need, working with people had these cancer stem cell driven, driven cancers. We weren't we we knew that you know, you can buy the $650 for five milligram sulforaphane from from Sigma but that way, you know, one treatment would have been, you know, 1200 dollars to give person that. And so that was when we started trying to figure out how to make it and stabilize it. We grew up broccoli sprouts for a long time, got really good at that. scaled it up enough so that we could help help out one person at a time really. But, you know, from that we started down the journey of trying to figure out how to make it into a pill. Because a lot of people can't can't eat, you know, the, the cup of broccoli sprouts, that's necessary to get the right dose and, and so worked on that for a long time and then and then figured out how to stabilize it.
5:30
If you don't mind just to kind of paint the picture here. If everyone's not caught up. Brock Elite i derives its name because it's from broccoli sprouts, and it's elite because correct me if I'm wrong, john, but you essentially have the only stable so fear of fame delivery system available in capsules, in other words, and in other terms you can find so if you're a fan of different supplements, etc, on various platforms, some that rhyme or sound like a jungle, and they probably aren't the same. or certainly don't perform actively, like what we would find your broccoli does that correct?
6:09
Yeah, so the this sort of, I would guess the marketing hitch here is that they re coined an old name. The precursor to sulforaphane is called glucoraphanin. Correct. And so they changed the name of that to
6:29
sulforaphane glucosinolate. Yeah. Okay.
6:32
So that is the new marketing term, okay, because we're gonna I went, when I tell my patients, the first thing that they do, I say, Listen, I really think that for whatever reason, and I have a bunch of medical reasons why I want their NRF two pathway to go up. First thing they do is go I went on Amazon, and I found this sprout product that's $12. And I'm like, that's glucoraphanin and then that takes me down a rabbit hole. Can you just explain really quick, why glucoraphanin is not the same thing as so perfect.
7:00
So glucoraphanin is stable, and it's waterside long. It's relatively easy to isolate. And has been available for a long time, but you have to convert it through an enzymatic reaction. In order to make sulforaphane but then the sulforaphane is unstable. So you can make it all you want, but it's only going to stick around for you know, a day or so. So you can't put it in bottle and package it and get it out there. So that was that was sort of the magic because it is making the stable sulforaphane. And also along the way we were we're testing lots of other cruciferous vegetables and sort of the the added benefit was that we found that process that we landed on actually stabilizes all the, the isothiocyanates that's the term for all of the ingredients in in these cruciferous vegetables that are good for you. So like, you know, bok choy and, and watercress and, and cabbage, they all have their own individual combination of isothiocyanates. And so we found in testing in the laboratory that sulforaphane and another isothiocyanate from watercress called PITC act synergistically. And we basically used the most stringent test that you can do in order to measure for synergy. Just dilute the dilute the one compound sulforaphane until you see no response. And then you you dilute the PITC. Until you see no response. And then if you combine the two, and you see your response, you know that it's synergistic. So actually, the two primary compounds in our product acts synergistically. So even if someone else had a for fame, stabilized product, ours is going to outperform it.
9:05
That's awesome. So the beauty of this is we're leading with the science first because we're going to spend the rest of the time talking to David about the history how this all came to fruition and everything, which I find to be a very fascinating story. But it's a rare opportunity to talk with somebody with your knowledge about how you discovered to do these tests, and which is what I it's just it's so exciting to me that I could sit there and say you did these tests, first in a lab. So as you started to do this, did you have access to the lab immediately? Did you build anything as the business was being developed? How did you augment from a scientific standpoint, the whole process to try
9:49
probably ferret out within more but
9:52
we have a lab in my house.
9:55
I really get really
9:58
not That's
10:00
actually Eric actually makes propofol in his bathtub. And that's what we use to sedate our patients so fully understand that. That's not true as a joke.
10:15
It does not say that on the permission slip.
10:19
We actually, when we were doing wanting to do personalized medicine and not the shotgun approach, we purchased a decent amount of equipment we had in order to do cell base studies. And we did this actually moved all of my boys, my boys play room, they were three and five. And we moved their toys out in the lab in the playground. So
10:51
I'm sorry, I'm sorry, David. JOHN, just real quick, I know that I just wanted to grab you before you left. But chemically and speaking as a PhD, obviously, the reason why you've turned to broccoli and other cruciferous vegetables is because of what they had inside of them. Correct. And so if people consume broccoli, or cauliflower or Brussel, sprouts, etc, they essentially are a part of that same family. But what happens specifically, if someone were to want to eat them, whether mature or youngest sprouts, and then whether they be cooked or raw? And then tell us a little bit why it's kind of an incredible discovery to be able to put sulforaphanes into something like broccoli?
11:37
Yes, there's a lot of papers that delve into the try to optimize getting sulforaphane from broccoli, where, you know, they talk about how many minutes in, in a, in a microwave or, or steamed for a certain amount of time and things like that. And suffice it to say it's just a, it's a give and take. So the enzyme that will create sulforaphane needs a bunch of cofactors for it, and there's that forward reaction, but there's also reverse reaction, and you're always in a compromise. So it's being created, and it's being destroyed all the time. And, and sort of without getting into the specifics of it, we figured out how to make it only go to the right and, and and then afterwards, it's it's stable. So anytime that you're eating any cruciferous vegetable, you have to crush it and eat it so that you're releasing the precursor glucoraphanin to get in contact with the the enzyme
12:52
morosa burns from Myrosinase
12:54
Marissa. And then. And then the problem with that is that as soon as you eat it, they're your digestion will destroy the enzyme. And that's the same problem with consuming a pill that has the enzyme. And the precursor is that you know, a good portion of that enzyme is destroyed, because it's a protein and most proteins are digested in during digestion. So there's not much Myrosinase around to convert into glucoraphanin precursor into the final product. So yeah, that's the that's sort of the Battle of everyone is is doing and you do get some and but it's it's that reverse reaction that's kind of really blowing it for everybody.
13:44
Well, something that sounds really interesting to me is is that I know from talking to you earlier that y'all basically put put it to the test where we can theorize how things work in vitro, but you're able to deliver and use broccoli and tell us about how you're able to actually test the levels of the bioavailability of severe things. That way, we know that it's actually getting to where we want it to work.
14:08
Yeah, I've read at least I think I've read just about every paper out there on sulforaphane. And I never saw a paper that actually shows that it's working in a person, you know, other than whatever the clinical study that they're using. They saw, you know, changes in the clinical study. But the actual about chemistry test is to see that the interest to the active molecule is to accumulate NSL and translocate into the nucleus. So the test that we did was we took just a normal dose of of our Brock Elite product, and then in a couple of hours, we isolated cells from the cheek swab and then did beforehand and after after taking the product. And measuring by immunofluorescence, the cumulation of NRF, two in the nucleus and showed that the dose that's in our pill actually caused an induction of NRF. Two in in cells and a person. And the nice thing about it was that you can take those same cells and do an invitro assay in a dish, and then put on the pure sulforaphane, you know, the $650 per gram, five gram from from Sigma. And then do this thing, do a titration. And say, how much sulforaphane at that cell creates this response. And actually, the, the amount of sulforaphane that was put on the cells, five, Mike, five micro mole produced the same amount as our oral Brock Elite that we took. So we actually know that the amount of sulforaphane that gets to the cell, or the sulforaphane equivalent is at five micromolar, which is an amount that has been shown in you know, thousands of papers to be functional.
16:14
So in essence, they were able to show that they could activate NRF2 pathway.
16:17
Yeah, so dr. john, let me ask you, when you did these studies, and I, I know that you even tested yourself when you were taking it and you checked it, what was the timeframe like the the area under the curve when it finally popped up? And you were able to show that so I'm thinking from a gastroenterologist standpoint, where does it get absorbed? How much it's broken down? That kind of thing?
16:38
It's been it's been a little while since I did it, but I think it was, is either two or four hours, two hours. And from the literature, you people have measured sulforaphane in the bloodstream. Fahy group has done it from serum a number of times and measure the actual molecule in blood. And, you know, its its peak is around, you know, two to four hours. So we knew that that would be a good place to start. And so we saw a really robust response. And the first time we did,
17:15
and I don't remember if it was a fakie article, or one of your articles, but you did show that the second dose had a more, as you say, robust response. Can you discuss the big dosing?
17:29
Yes. So the notion behind that is really interesting. There's a number of mouse studies that show that not only just get interrupt to induction through, you know, the separation NRF two from keep one, so that it's it's enough to become stable, or it's blocked from being degraded. But one of the things that people don't know is that NRF two, regulates its its own gene products. So when you get an RF to induction, it goes and turns on the transcription of NRF. Two, that's a It's a unique molecule on that, when NRF two is turned on, it goes back to its own promoter and self promoter. And even beyond that, after you get this induction that stays on for as long as 72 hours. There's even another level on top of that, which is epigenetic, just kind of where the name of our lab came from. episodul ABS it's an epigenetic I mentioned. Nice. Yeah. interrupt to stays on as long as as much as six months after taking it for
18:43
weeks. Just really quick. Just explain what epi genetic response means.
18:48
Yeah, so genetics is, in general, what you would think of is, say you had a mutation and Gene, you get a phenotype in the DNA? Well, a lot of biology is actually created by the expression of the RNA of the whole plethora of genes expression in sort of the orchestra of what a cell is supposed to do. And epigenetics is the maintenance of transcriptional on and off states of a cell. So you can change the, the on and off state of a whole bunch of cells for the long term after you stimulate sulforaphane for just a matter of weeks. So that's kind of one of the brilliant things about NRF two.
19:35
So you had we had discussed this and you use the term I believe it was pleiotropic. we're describing because it almost seems too good to be true. But now when you say it's an epigenetic phenomenon, when you turn your NRF two pathway on, there are lots of downstream positive effects that can happen. And do you believe it's the epigenetic phenomenon or is it just turning Get on with the body, then does the it has so much it's um, you know, the NRF two pathway, we did a whole episode on it because it is it. It's something that nobody's talking about you guys are discussing it on a cellular level, which is amazing, which is why I really like everything that you have done, you started with a lab with the science working your way back, and now it's become a product in a bottle that I can give to people. So the whole aspect of my saying it right, pleiotropic? Or is that the right?
20:34
Yes, pleiotropic is a term used to cover this idea that NRF two turns on numerous classes of genes. So it turns on a whole bunch of genes that regulate detoxification, and it turns on a whole bunch of genes that are antioxidants. And then yeah, there's there's numerous groups of genes and, and then inflammation as well. So NF Kappa b. So being able to turn on those three different pathways that are all in all three of them are involved in many, many, many, or maybe all chronic diseases. This is sort of the magic and the juice. And that I think the other the other aspect that a lot of people don't realize is that, you know, the reason that reactive oxygen species became famous was that it did long term damage, and everyone knew that it was involved in chronic disease. Well, now in sort of hindsight is when you get hydrogen peroxide, or a lot of these reactive oxygen species being turned on I it at times, like viruses are known to turn off interested. So the actual thing that is broken, that is causing the chronic disease in the first place is low NRF. Two, and then turning it back on, obviously should should help a lot of those states.
22:03
And I love that you describe the whole how you figured out that murasame as the the enzymatic pathway can go forward or backwards, very similar. If there is chronic inflammation, it can shut down the NRF. Two, when really when you have chronic inflammation, you got to figure out how to get that up to stop the chronic inflammation. So I have this discussion with my patients that have either the propensity for autoimmune disease, or they have an autoimmune disease. And I try and explain it that I really would like a combination of a polyphenolic blend plus Brock Elite so that we can tip that scale back. So your NRF two can come up. So that it's sort of the seesaw of that. So that's the way you describe them Ross is going back and forth. It's a fine line. And as a society, I feel like we're all chronically employed.
22:53
Yeah, that's for sure. And then that that balance that's going on, that's pretty well established in the autoimmune disease world is that there's, there's some event that precedes autoimmunity. And whatever it is, whether it's you know, have a season without sleeping, or you have a viral infection, or you're, you know, someone in your family died, you know, they're all manifests the same way they it's, it's a genomic instability, inflammation, in all these processes that are involved in basically every chronic disease progression. And what's interesting is those those exact things are the things that you have to address to reverse any chronic disease. So, you know, a good baseline to start from would be to activator and f2. And like you said, you know, probably just following it would be NF Kappa b and inflammation.
23:58
One One quick, hopefully, it's quick, but it may not be. There was a paper or study that came out last year that the Ken and I both ran across that talked about that some cancers, try to essentially commandeer the NRF two pathway to basically kind of shield themselves from from destruction, and that way they kind of hide what kind of role would so if you're a vein supplementation, play in this where the NRF two pathway gene, or that expression is somewhat mutated, is there? Is there a role where severe pains can basically return us or? I don't know You take it from there.
24:40
Yeah, I've thought a lot about that. That role in general is, you know, the selfishness of a cancer. And, as opposed to a normal cell, which is, you know, thinking globally, it's, it's, it's trying to protect the whole organism that you surfing of f2 is, is basically, if you can ramp up your detox of a single cell, basically, the reason that that is, is such a bad thing is because you're throwing toxins at it to try and kill it. But if that cell is now robust, in that, you know, those two man, you know, detox machine at that point, then you know, those toxins that that's how you define successful, you know, treatment of cancer is that cell is, is not killed by the thing that you're throwing at it. That's how you define it. But basically, you know, we haven't found a cell line yet that if you throw so forth, and added it doesn't kill it so so that that specific scenario that you're describing is very true. And, and is part of the mechanism of cancer progression. But it isn't, it isn't this in a holistic way, NRF two works in a normal cell. So all the normal cells are going to be fighting to get rid of that cancer as well. So now on both fronts, it kills the cancer and it's making the cells that normally are working against the cancer, or better your immune system, your support cells,
26:21
especially the cells that are not tainted are the ones who are able now to better defend themselves by having a stronger interest is mutated on
26:30
that whole, that whole business of, of, you know, hijacking, blocking the immune system from getting to the cancer. So is also another aspect of of, you know, having a really brilliant immune system if you're trying to fight cancer.
26:46
Sure. No, that makes sense.
26:49
It's interesting, because as I've been using this in patients, the comments that have been told to me, so I'm trying to tell my patients you've got you're at risk for XYZ, cancer, autoimmune, and then I've had people come back and they purchase more, because they're like, you know, it's really interesting, giving it to my husband who has early dementia, and he appears to be doing better with it. And I'm like, that's interesting, okay. And then I can say, well, that would make sense from an if you increase in RF too. And once again, we're not saying that if you take a supplement this happens, but we do know that if you can increase a pathway known as the NRF, two pathway, then this can do certain things. So I'm seeing success with my patients in neuro inflammatory processes, which is a lot of things. I kind of got a giggle a little giggle out of this, because I heard David on a podcast, and he was talking about sleep and increased dreams. And I am a total believer in that. It's part of my sleep routine. And I'm putting people on it for sleep. And I don't I don't wear my aura ring anymore. I used to but because now I just I wake up and I'm like, Whoa, those are some cool dreams. Yes. And so they're asleep. And I'm like, how in the world does that play into that? And then from a gastroenterology standpoint, I've got two patients that failed multiple rounds of heavy antibiotics to treat H. pylori. And then ultimately, I'm like, Look, if you want to try something natural, and we do atrantil to plus Brock Elite, I'll try and teal is a poly phenolic blend that has some antimicrobial activity. And then broccoli when I heard who's the guy he just mentioned at Hopkins, that Fei Fegi, he had discussed that they have done some research on directly with H. pylori, and I've got two people that failed multiple rounds of traditional antibiotics that are now clear. Oh, okay, this is really cool. Like, this is some really neat stuff that's going on. And as I'm listening to you, I love it. Because although it may be it may be a little overwhelming for somebody hearing this or it's just like, okay, I just want the public to know how much work and how much science went into it before it ever became a product in a bottle. And that's so commendable. And so cool. And I, you know, you are where'd you get your PhD? It was a school heard of John's Johns Hopkins? Is that hope instead of college? I think they've, I don't know, I'm not really sure if they play football. I'm gonna have to look at that because of a football. So you're so so you got your PhD at Johns Hopkins, which is no joke and all the people that have done a lot of the research on sulforaphane like fe II have done a lot of that and when you were talking about the cost of stable glucose, stable sulforaphane, that even they admit that they can't do a whole lot of studies on it because it's just cost prohibitive. So what you've done is you've put lightning in a bottle and Very impressive. That is so cool. And you guys continue to do research on this, right? I mean, thinking of synergistic molecules to put with it. That's nuts.
30:11
Yeah, so definitely, always, always marching forward slowly. And definitely that target of NF Kappa V is a big one. We have our our list of compounds we really want bioavailable. So,
30:26
just really quick, you've said NF Kappa b a couple times we hear about NF Kappa b when it comes to inflammation, and certainly in this pandemic, that we're in NF Kappa b plays a big role, can you just explain what NF Kappa b does downstream
30:41
instead of NF Kappa b is the is the master regulator of inflammation. So inflammation is important in fighting, fighting a know your bacterial invasion, you get you you recruit your entire immune system to to attack a site and take care of an infection. The problem in the chronic disease state is that you get NF Kappa b. Induction, which leads to this cytokines released. And so even though there isn't an infection in this chronic inflammation state, your immune system is going and and invading that organ. And so the way the immune system works in that, in that case is it does a lot of damage just does bystander damage, inflammation and fiber optic response as well. So that's the that's the target is to try and keep this inflammatory state the chronic inflammatory state at bay that needs to be pushed back slightly. And sulforaphane does inhibit NF Kappa b. We measured it in, in urine and a clinical study measured interleukin six, which is a canonical target for NF Kappa b. So supporting does inhibit NF Kappa b, but there are molecules more powerful. curcumin is kind of high on high on our list.
32:19
Yeah. I can talk more about that. I we should probably let John go. Given his
32:25
Yeah, that that that we only have john for five minutes turned into a 20 Minute. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. I
32:32
don't want to get him in trouble.
32:33
Yeah. So much. It was great.
32:36
JOHN, it was it was great. Again, thank you so much, and super impressed with all the work you're doing. And I love that you too, have teamed up you and David to produce something which I think is going to do remarkable things for people. It's certainly doing incredible things for my patients. So
32:50
yeah, thank you. Yeah, it's, it's a, it's something that fell into our lap was the correct circumstances, where, you know, it's always comes from, you know, a need, and then someone who's precious to you, and I mean, a lot of powerful things happen from that.
33:07
That's awesome. It's PhD john Gill day. Thank you, PhD, john. We appreciate it. And we're gonna hang out here with David with with rock elite as well, and certainly appreciate it. We'll have you back on again here shortly.
33:21
Thanks. Awesome. Thanks, john. Appreciate your time. Yeah.
33:24
Well, David, I've just been sitting there all quietly I know.
33:27
So now this is the now though. Now the backstory? Yeah, let's figure out how in the world you got that guy to sit next to you in the first place.
33:39
We're gonna be situate
33:45
around centering the camera. Nicely done. Done. So David, all that science didn't happen for no reason. Yeah, here there is that there's a large story that brought you near and dear to what it is that you did to to basically found what is now Brock Elite. I don't care how far back you want to go. But just
34:06
yeah. And and just for the record, I can't I do have a background in science, not like John's, but I can talk probably a decent amount about about Sulforaphane. But from because that's we talk about all the time, so and the backstory. My wife was diagnosed with breast cancer in 2012. And she was very determined to to treat it naturally. And at least not doing chemotherapy. And so we did a lot of reading and actually met john the first week, some of providentially and would talk to him regularly lay about papers I was reading. Anyway, fast forward. In March, our Mars cancer spread. And we're realizing that what we were doing wasn't working. And so we really decided we can't like, we get an excuse, we can't do a kind of a shotgun approach, we needed to know that something was working. And so we end up getting some cancer cells growing them in this lab we put together and and then john created this battery of supplements, to and what he would do is he put the supplements on normal cells, the renal proximal to the cells that we purchased, and then also the cancer cells that he was able to grow. And the goal was to kill the cancer without killing the normal cells. And so and so, yeah, software affine was was a top three and killing Maurice steps cancer, went to buy it, and then realized it didn't actually, it wasn't out there. So that was when we started growing. A lot of broccoli sprouts, brought broccoli By the way, Eric, you said, it's broccoli sprouts that we that that brought broccoli comes from the seed, so we don't actually sprout? Because it's, it's a it's a pain. Yeah,
36:46
I've actually tried to grow it and it makes your whole house smell like.
36:49
Yeah, it's, it's crazy. To be committed. So. But anyway, yeah, so. So we did that. And we would do some actually. So we have probably enough, we had enough sprouting material to probably 10 families. And so when you would use them with carrots and ginger and Apple, probably not Apple, but but everything was fresh. We threw some we actually all the the seat seats that we sprouted, we actually sprouted radish too, because it's back and radishes high and naturally high moroseness, which converts it. Yeah, everything converts. And then. So yeah, we did that for a long time. And, and, and it's kind of John's goal had been to stabilize this because as he says the literature was crying out for a stable form of the molecule. And so he kind of you would meet for lunch regularly. And just like, yeah, I think I have a stable form of it. And so can we get a test? I was like, yeah, so we get it tested at a third party lab, and found that we had it, you know, that he had stabilized it. And at that point, my wife was still alive and was like, we gotta, you know, this is amazing. We got to get this out to people because she knew how, you know how many people really needed it. And so yeah, that was that's kind of a, a portion of the backstory.
38:40
So thank you for sharing that with us. So in 2012, Mara, your wife, yes, diagnosed. And then as you were trying to treat as a team, meaning husband, wife, she said you need to keep doing this. And during the, during her cancer process, you were trying to figure out this stuff. That's pretty, it's pretty emotional and pretty tough.
39:05
Yeah. She did banned me from bringing journal articles to bed. I did that for several weeks. And she was like, Ah, so But yeah, I mean, you know, I have a science background. So it was it was it's, you know, she was going to she want to do it that way. You know, I wanted to support her the, our promise to each other was that it had to be backed by science. It couldn't just be loosey goosey. And and so, yeah, and that that's kind of how actually the our, our first supplement company or store was was founded, because we met the doctor who gave it to us and, and we were like, he was like, take this and like, well, what is it? It's like water. I don't know. But it's good for And I'm like, gosh, like, you know, I don't I just met you. So, so actually, john was able to figure out what it would what it did. And so we I bet it would be, first of all that what wasn't poisonous, you know? And then second of all, that actually is really good for you. So that was that was kind of the genesis of that as well. So So this all your endeavor into the whole supplement industry started with that, or were you part of the Restore company before or stars founded through what I just said. So basically, it wasn't even a story. It was a it was a, it was a white, unlabeled bottle that with a sharpie worked on it. And there's like, take this, and I'm like, dude, like that this goes against what we promised each other. This is like, there's no science. Sure, you know? And so, you know, you, you sound nice. But I'm going to figure out what this does before my wife takes it. Yeah. So then we found out that it was actually amazing. And then actually, that that comes with that company was formed.
41:27
So were you the CEO, that company
41:29
net. Okay, were you invited on personally, and then hope to get it off the ground.
41:36
Because I also on a, there's there's a scientific aspect, which is really fascinating. To me. There's the emotional personal aspect, which is equally fascinating. And then as somebody who also is involved on a business side of a supplement company, that's also intriguing to me also, so the, how, how I made this sort of thing is exciting. from that aspect, going from there to here, going from there to have this that I can hold. Yeah, there's always,
42:08
but yeah, we would. We would, you know, so you you got sprouts, they're strong, they're bitter. They, they're awful, actually. But they're potent, right. And so they're really good for you. And we would use them. So it wouldn't just be like a little it would be like, a ton. of and so it's like a massive dose. And, and once John, you know, figured out how to stabilize it, we would basically make these little basically would have a 15 lm a it was it was a liquid first. It was and and like a shot. It would Yeah, 15 ml, and this liquid extract, and then we put 15 ml of Lime juice and a packet of stevia, just shake it up, and then just down it. Like, I mean, and then we had actually another friend of ours, really could have benefited from that. I mean, she was really sick and couldn't take it. Mark could she could she could take it for the longest time. And then it just it but it's just, it's It was awful. So we knew we had to transition it into a capsule. But unfortunately, that happened after after Martha died in September of 2017. So we at that point shortly after that, you know, after we were kind of shell shock, kind of got it together and then figured out how to dry it and stay you know, in a stable risk. Yeah. So yeah, if you guys come to Charlottesville, you have to see a walk in and walk through when people walk through like, like, no, like, we made everything out like nothing. It's it's all unique. So
44:19
so that's what makes it so unique and hidden sort of the proprietary thing and how it's stabilized is because you guys actually develop the equipment to do this and figure out the process and all
44:30
that more process and piecemeal equipment it's already around Yeah.
44:37
First of all, I'm sorry that your wife passed away and I'm commend you to sticking true to your path and having this as her legacy and the millions and people that you can help because this all started. Yeah, out of out of the goal to help.
44:55
Yeah, I mean, we're we're hopeful that people are getting helped. And we do get a lot of testimonials not probably as many as you guys, but they they're starting to come in and yeah, and it's just like, Alright, that's, that's, that's really amazing to hear people and what they, you know what they, how it impacts them.
45:22
So Brock elite itself, you're talking about the number of testimonials, the brand the label the the name when did this actually take foot in and get into this bottle for to be available?
45:35
Yeah, that was we went to market in April of 2018.
45:41
Okay. So roughly two years we're is we're in the late part of 2020 on this particular recording. And so in two years, you've, you've obviously linked up with with Brown and his clinic we've got, I don't know how many patients who've begun to take it now. sleep better, feel better. Do better top to bottom? What where do you see? How do you see getting the message of broccoli and the importances of sulfuric veins as it empowers one's NRF? Two pathway? Because it's a lot. I mean, it's unfortunately it's a it's a lot of it's a lot of words and letters and not everybody talks about.
46:21
There's a we talked about this, there's so many similarities where first you have to explain a very complex, unique pathway that people aren't talking about. And we talked about this today, we're like, Why in the world? Aren't we talking more about the NRF two pathway, especially in the setting of immune health. And then the second thing is how in the world you climb over this giant wall of 2000 supplements that claim to do it. But we know just like dr. john mentioned that glucoraphanin is not a stable sulforaphane. So that's hurdle one is I need to explain why this can help you hurdle two is I need to explain why the $6 bottle from XYZ company is really not the same thing. And then hurdle three is this is a long play for you. So it isn't that your immediate ankle pain will get better, which is it's the Society of immediate gratification. So there's lots of similarities when when I deal with medicine, and I'm trying to get patients to stick to a regimen or something for a long time. From a business perspective. I'm curious how you're approaching that.
47:35
Yeah, well, I mean, the great thing about broccoli is a lot of people take it feel the difference. B and john alluded to the kind of clinical a pre clinical trial we were doing where we did on aisle six. And so basically, we did a three day study, we did baseline, day one proceeded to, and then broccoli, day three is is blinded. And to fit your ends into basically from in, there's no change in our six levels from baseline to placebo, but there was basically 24 hours from taking the one dose of Brock Elite, a 30% decrease in Aisle six, in 24 hours. So that's enough, you can feel and that was one dose
48:31
one goes decreased. So aisle six is interleukin six, which happens to be an inflammatory cytokine, which sets off a cascade Yeah, that currently, many pharmaceuticals are trying to block in this pandemic that we're in because we know that that could be the first cytokine that can set off a cascade. So it's fascinating that by increasing the NRF two pathway, it just puts everything kind of in balance.
49:00
So So yeah, it works. I mean, they're they're, they're related, they're but they're two distinct pathways. So it works with NRF. Two, what does work with NF Kappa b as well and which is upstream from or downstream from IO sticks. And so, yeah, it works in both and but that's in the literature. And you know, we we have done our own internal but the great thing about so karafin is all the little I mean, there are already 2000 articles out there so it's like we don't have to really do anything I'm unlike with store, we had to we had to do everything you know, but with software event, it's already out there. And so you don't have to, you know, believe us we just can shoot we just Schmidt our main portal is showing that it's actually we have so paraffin in the in the bottle and the capsule and from you know from a marketing standpoint We're about to get over I think we've, it's, it's, we don't have a lot of the product because it's really backbreaking hard, it's hard to make. It's and that's why it costs so much, because it's we're kind of what we do most everything by hand. And we're transitioning as we grow. But, you know, it's, it's hard, it's difficult to make and, and stabilize, but it, but yet we're doing it and we're slowly figuring out how to scale it. But right now, like, we don't want to market time, because we can't, we don't have enough. You couldn't even supply our city, let alone and you know, and so. So yeah, right now. We are, you know, making it as fast as we can. And, and so yeah, the the drying process is is is for going through, look at the solid is difficult, and we think we've cracked the code on that is not a patented process. It's we decided to keep it traces trade secret ID six trade secret process. So that's hopefully was a good decision. But we figured, you know, it had been around for a lot of smart people for a pretty long time. So it's probably pretty safe.
51:36
So something else to think about. And I don't want to make you talk off label about the brand, because we know that's not the kind of trouble that anybody wants. So let's just talk about sulforaphanes specifically. There is a different product, I believe it's used over in Europe, correct that they use for prostate, prostate cancer. Yes, prostophins. And then there's also some, some pretty deep studies that talk about lymphoma, there is the diffuse B cell lymphoma, as well as follicular lymphoma, which actually I've got a cousin who was recently diagnosed with that. So if your offense have been shown in repeated different clinical trials or studies to essentially activate that NRF two pathway to help those who basically have a managed cancer status. Is that something that else that kind of drew, maybe John to it whenever he began to test those cells, the cancer cells with the normal cells to make sure that so if you're if it was one of those compounds,
52:44
is that what your question is?
52:47
Kind of rambling? I just don't realize that. Like that.
52:51
All right. Let me give the backstory today. We were sitting there talking, a cousin contacted him it was recently diagnosed with follicular lymphoma. And then his initial response was, Oh, my gosh, can taking sulforaphane help that Ben we found some articles which said specifically the treatment of certain Hodgkin's lymphomas and flicklock almost not not non Hodgkins. Sorry, non Hodgkins lymphoma. They have looked at sulforaphane looking at that. And so then it was one of those things. It's like, Oh, so I called up a couple oncology friends. And they were unaware of this. They're unaware of that pathway. And so for a friend being there, and it just it, it gets us, you know, talking where it's like, wow, this is something that the literature is out there, you just have to go digging a little bit somebody has done it. And it's, it's, as in this space, with the FDA regulated type thing. It's as you know, you cannot say certain things, but the, but the pathway is there, you're not
53:56
doing laughing because he knows that it's hard to get rid of talk. This is what leads to rambling questions. I'm just gonna help Ken out, because now he's rambling
54:06
down and you're like, why don't you? Yeah.
54:13
So, you know, I can say that every cancer is different. And that's the bottom line. You can have two non Hodgkins lymphomas, you can have two, you know, breast cancers which are described medically the same that are completely different, right? They just are I mean, and so you know, John's put, you're talking about still purifying as a chemical that he got from Sigma Aldrich and then talking about cancer cells, not people you know, he's put a decent amount of stuff sheriffin Cancer cells and, and they typically it's not 100%, but they typically respond pretty well. And, and pathway wise. You know, there's, when you have cancer, you feel really bad, and there's a lot of inflammation that's going on that canister is shedding. And just just from that product that can help with inflammation would be great. If that was just it. That would, that would be it. You'd feel better, you know,
55:34
really like how you said that reset each cancer, even if it has the same name can behave completely different because oncology friends, they've got protocols, and it's, you know, this is this protocol, oh, this person got cured, this person did not do another protocol, oh, this person did this. And then you start going down. I've never thought of it that way that just because we're calling it colon cancer, not all colon cancers are going to respond. And so you're exactly right. Each individual is completely different. I love the way that you guys started the business as a cell specific line. And can we make it as an individual treatment by taking the cells the fact that you took more cells, put it there with the renal cells to make sure it's non toxic first, then let's see what works. That's brilliant.
56:23
that was John. So yeah. Yeah, I call John the cell whisperer, because he can grow like nobody, nobody, I really believe. I mean, this is not an overstatement. Nobody can do what he can do. And that the fact that he has a, he's just kind of manufactory. Yeah, to coat people swab and measure. And after he came up with that, you there's no nobody like you can read about NRF two be measured. But if you read how they're doing it, it's like an ordeal like, and he has a very quick, quick procedure that he came up with. He came up with the, his background before he went to Hopkins. He actually, if you guys remember the anthrax scare back in the early 2000s,
57:13
mailing of the an anthrax,
57:15
it came out he himself designed the five minute anthrax test, you could try, you can measure it. So that's sort of his, what he enjoys doing what he's good at is tests. So
57:31
what do you enjoy doing?
57:34
Wow, I love what I'm doing here. People are like, What's your dream job? This is it. I love the science, I love doing something that's worthwhile. And we're kind of peeling an onion, you know, because we know a lot probably, you know, we know quite a bit. But we're learning every day, every day about sulforaphane and you know, different things that we want to be doing with it.
58:12
Instead, it's just very exciting.
The smartest people are always on a quest for knowledge. It never stops. Yeah, never ever stops. But I will say, I'm going to pull the curtain back a little bit here, David, and that is that for every guest that we have on the show, we send out a questionnaire and ask various things like favorite drink and favorite band and different things like that. David left both of those blank. So I'm going to assign that your favorite drink is flavored Waterloo, which is mine also. And just simply because of John's work, I'm going to say your favorite band is anthrax.
Yes.
58:53
Awesome. So as you're peeling this onion recently went to your website, you got a few other products pretty cool you guys using similar technology and a few other which would typically be very on absorbable molecules, you're doing something cool. We got the perk elite, the berberine elite, and my missing one.
59:19
Those those are ones that we're we've been working on. We're just plying for the patent for the curcumin one. So that will hopefully it was approved, your patent will start releasing that it's currently not for sale. But then, yes, and that that's really exciting. And the berberine so Berg leads, which I think we're going to rename but we'll see is a burn as with that because that but it's for you know, blood glucose. So you know people Kido just from my background with Mara, I was like the sugar Nazi. I mean, every bit of sugar was counted, you know. And so the goal was to have less than 20 grams a day. And so we early on people hate stevia, but, or stevia how everyone loves it. But uh, yeah, we, and we didn't like it very much. But now it's just like, it's what my kids have grown up with. And we don't just no sugar, no sugar, so the sugar is evil. So we're, we're just the berberine, especially at night is important because melatonin blocks your ability to if you have a night meal flexibilities for the, for the glucose to process, so that I'll just drop it. And so that's, you know, exciting. So we're, we're actually had that on the market and are doing some more testing to refine it right now. So it's not currently for sale, either our a little bit
1:01:11
cellularly you're referencing sugar isn't? Didn't they say that? They don't have to gene actually can be mutated more rapidly with with refined sugars being present, isn't that correct?
1:01:24
I've not read that. So yeah, I don't doubt it. I'm just saying I'm not. I'm not familiar with that study. So, so yeah, I mean, it's pro inflammatory. A lot of the refined sugars, if people ask me, there's one, you know, because the cancer with my wife, if there's one, one food that you just one that you recommend, stop eating and love, and I get that an ordinate amount? Like, I love the question because it's quick. It's just like high fructose corn syrup.
1:02:09
high fructose corn syrup
1:02:10
there's corn syrup, the one thing I would say if you worry about cancer, don't don't eat things with high fructose corn syrup. And a close second is soybean oil, soybean. And that's in everything to so that today I just had ordered a organic hamburger from one of my favorite places and trucks. So I said hold the muster or hold the Manet's and hold the pickles. Pickles have hyper source corn syrup Manet's is made with with soybean oil. If you the reason why salads are so bad for you, it's not the lettuce, it's the dressing dressing less, it's organic, it's made with soybean oil. And so when the question comes, you know, I give them one thing, but I also go through things. And the reason both of those items soybeans, and corn from Tim, that makes high fructose corn syrup are genetically modified, the jag modification is there so that the plants can receive a roundup and not die. And that kills the weeds and allows in theory for a better yield of the plants of the crops. And most of the glyphosate gets washed away in the rain and stuff, but trace amounts get left on the plan. And that actually, because, you know, if you if you have one small amount of glyphosate, it doesn't matter, but it's in everything. And so there's this bio accumulation effect from being exposed to it non stop, and it actually your gut, your gut guy. It's insidious with the gut. A lot of actually had some friends move from Lebanon. And now that was like, watch out what you eat here. Because the food that you eat here, even though it's called the same thing, you're going to have got issues and they did. They're like, David, how, and then they get got issues. And then I'm like, seriously, and so they actually started watching what they're eating and refined. But glyphosate, the amount of glyphosate you can get in one fast food meal. It can drop your inner tube pathway 30% we mentioned that boom, that 30% basically turns off your ability to detox. So glyphosate is basically the mother of toxins that makes every toxin more toxic. And so That's, that's one of the pieces of research that john did. Like I said, also, we're talking about the ability for cells to connect, and, and can communicate through gap junctions. And each cell in the body is connected to other cells through a communication network called gap junctions, those gap junctions allow cells to be functionally coupled, they act like an organism versus individual cells. And so that's when cells lose their way, and become cancerous and that sort of thing, those cells don't communicate, and they lose their ability to act like in the organism. And so john also showed that the glyphosate reduces the ability of the gap junctions to communicate by 30%, or 30%. So that's enough that that lack of communication, all sorts of things can go wrong.
1:06:11
So we don't need to eat anything that's GMO, we don't need to eat anything with high fructose corn syrup. We don't need anything with soybean oil. These are things that essentially what you're saying, David, if I understand correctly, these are things that could exacerbate or even introduce or stimulate cancer growth and cancer cell. The the the oncogene gets activated, basically, when we consume these kinds of foods.
1:06:37
There's a Yes, yes. Yeah.
1:06:41
It's bad. It's bad news. Yes. Well, David, thanks for fighting through about three technical difficulties on here. And thank you to Paul for who put all this together and make it seem seamless. What What an awesome product, I couldn't be happier for this to have been only product number three that we've brought to KB MD health. And it's something that I know that can I both firmly believe in? We love what it does, for those who who use it, including me and my family. And just thanks so much for the time, and thanks to you and your wife for having the the passion to do what you did here.
1:07:20
Yeah, well, it's my pleasure. And looking forward to coming back on another point I do want to throw in, I will be talking about glyphosate. The reason we're doing that research was to show that sulfuric fen actually negates it brings or brings in our to back. So let's say depresses enough to but if you do play the glyphosate and so parafin brings it back to normal level.
1:07:57
So if I go to McDonald's, and I say, hold the pickles in the mayonnaise, and then I just opened capsules of Brock Elite over the actual hamburger, I should be cool, right? No,
1:08:12
no, we're not gonna but but and then also with gap junctions, that communication is reestablished with software offensive that the gap junction function gets re established so the that's the reason we were doing that those studies was to show the the insidiousness of the state but also that not to use it the way you just described that is actually a big deal. So but yeah, it's great to be here. Thank you guys so much for what you are doing in promoting health too and it's a it's a
1:08:49
you know, it's it's really fun to talk to bench researcher like dr. John to talk to you that has an extreme passion to get this out there for the right reasons doing the right science behind it with the right motivation and then me as a clinician getting to see the one to one responses that I get from my patients it's it's it's an honor for me to look my patients in the eye and say, I know these guys did their homework. I feel like we at KBS research really try and science up the whole nutraceutical thing and make sure that otcs have a lot of science and you are both you guys are shaming me because the science you guys do is insane, Wow, yeah, that is awesome. I want to thank you for everything. Where can where can people connect with you? Where can they find Brock Elite, and so on. Yeah.
1:09:44
So BrocElite.com and can go on there and we have an online store. So go ahead and buy it there. And we'll it's the best way to do
BrocElite.com
1:10:06
Yeah. And so I will tell everyone that's listening that as a clinician, I see tremendous effects with this. I am a little bit scared when you were saying it's a laborious process. And when you invited us down Do you intend us to put us to work when we come visit? Like you invite people to help with the laborious process?
1:10:26
No, no, we'll just take you to some, some of our favorite restaurants that have clean eating,
1:10:32
nice, clean eating and no and no mayo. Nice.
1:10:36
Yeah, man. So yeah, and hopefully, as people are listening to this, maybe we can do a coupon code we talked about that as well.
1:10:48
Absolutely. Yes. If you're if you're catching this podcast through video, or just if there's someone shared it to you go to KBMDhealth.com. Or just gut check project calm and you can connect not only with us, but David and dr. john Broc elite. We'll have all of those things available both in coupon redemptions, more information, data, data, data is what drives everything that David and John do. David, thank you so much everyone, like and share gut check project, Episode Number 44
Transcribed by https://otter.ai