David sits down with Eye to Eye's Alyssa Tundidor for the question and answer portion of their fireside chat. The audience members, who are young student leaders from across the country who are neurodivergent or have a learning difference, ask brilliant questions, like what is David most proud of, how do you answer someone who is pitying your neurodivergence, what do. you say when people insist "everyone has a little bit of ADHD!", and to how to share special interests with neurotypical folx. To learn more about Eye to Eye, visit www.eyetoeyenational.org
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Lee asks: David’s talked about making the world better for folks who have LDs or are ND, is there a specific moment he is proud of? David answers: there are so many, and he’s really lucky. He’ll do a rapid fire bunch of them, somebody trying a strawberry for the first time and realizing it was delicious, somebody reading a book, somebody realizing they didn’t have to sit still. Somebody realizing they were worth it and good enough. The time he was called Dr. 13 times even when he kept correcting them. The time he was able to evidence differences in someone’s education plan. The time he talked to parents to help them get their kids diagnosed appropriately, or get them to understand their kids differently. Every speaking event and having to talk to friends about where he just was. Somebody buttdialed him once, and he never listens to voicemail and the person didn’t know they were leaving a message and he hears the person saying that “David helped me understand ADHD differently.” They were talking with their friends like in a chat about what they had learned from me. That made David’s heart explode in a good way. Carly asks: people who are neurotypical use language that is harmful to the neurodivergent community, like calling them stupid, how would you address a discussion like that with someone when you understand their intentions aren’t negative—what’s the appropriate way to approach it? Let’s imagine David it’s someone relatively new in your world. With family members or loved one, it’s about creating parallels that shock them. With someone new, the most important thing is to not fight a belief but contradict it. How many times do you all talk about your neurodivergence in a good way: it doesn’t happen a lot, it’s conditioning. He got a piece of pizza, put in salad, called it a pizza taco, and everyone did it and David was like “yeah, that’s an ADHD thing.” Rebranding! And parallel examples for people to feel more of the intensity. For example, having a teacher saying “how can I get my student to feel more comfortable talking about their learning differences?” And the example: “great, how much do you weigh?” So depending on how well you know the person, throw things out there. Talking people about culture and oppression, and give people the out. People double down when you accuse them; so instead, “I know you didn’t mean to oppress a population, or be an ableist jerk, and call them stupid.” And it's really hard to see people not learn in a typical way, you give them the out. The more you combat the belief of another person, the more you entrench it. Have you ever seen people fight about how tall they are? What does it matter, and they’re getting more and more riled up.  Another Carly asks: advice for seeking a therapist that supports them, especially going through transitions. Lots of language uses infantilizing examples and person first language, and therapists do this as well. One thing about therapy: you are their boss. You hire and pay them. Interview them. Ask them why they said that? We shouldn’t give therapists breaks and also don’t mistreat them. Meet with different therapists and find out who’s better. How good it feels actually talking to the person—do they listen to your expertise on neurodiversity. Do they do say “oh ADHD, that’s hard.” v. “Oh ADHD, that can be really marginalizing, how do you experience that?” One is vacant neglect, one is targeted. You are allowed to be very picky about the people you put into your life.  Another participant asks: My brother is coming from DC to Northwestern and is complaining about the food-is the food at Northwestern really that bad? David names that he will have to deal with the friendliness of the midwest, and he needs to go into Evanston or go off campus to really give the food a try. The midwest nice thing can really unsettle people: why would you know that? The midwest thing is actually: Hi, how are you? They really want to know the answer. It’s a cultural thing. The food is fire, but not on campus. Check out Jeni’s ice cream, and check out Gigio’s. Another question: ADHD as a term is overused and because of that their is a fear of being dismissed—what about the pat on the head, the condescending v. The dismissing? Are those equally bad? David names that it’s probably person, what someone can’t tolerate; he can’t tolerate being infantilized, he’s not a baby, he has a beard and everything. It’s a frequency measure, whichever one you get more of is going to be worse. How do you own your own label differently: you’re modeling it for other people, they’re not modeling it for you. Finding ways to talk about it when you’re the one with the IEP and 504. Finding ways to talk about it privately with teachers, having casual conversations about how people can talk about being neurodivergent without devaluing neurodivergence. There can be a part of everyone that can be a little ADHD if they’re put in the right room or at the right moment—they can use that moment to empathize with us, or they can use that moment to destroy us. He encourages people using the empathy skills to rebrand it. And in school, when you’re talking to a teacher, apologize how the IEP law makes them do extra work. Most IEP plans make teachers work longer hours, cost the school more money, and that’s a fact, so he empathizes with that. And it gently reminds them it’s a law. Their family says that “everyone is a little ADHD or autistic!” When people try to normalize you by saying you’re like everyone else, they dehumanize you. They are getting rid of a lot of parts with you that matter. “I had a hard time picking a sandwich that one time, I’m a little ADHD, but you know how I handled that sandwich picking, I….” But “no, I get two sandwiches all the time and get buyers remorse.” They’re maybe making it a little reductionistic. How would you give advice to people who want to speak about their experiences or feel a type of guilt because it’s not as severe because someone has it worse than me? David didn't hear that because he was thinking of his cat, Blue, who needs medication. Can she ask again? How would you advise someone to not feel guilty or dramatic or fears they’re making it up? I think it’s hard to have courage. It’s really hard. People will always do things that we don’t like when we talk about these things. But how do I tolerate that energy coming back at me? How do I talk about this? People who are neurodivergent think that if it’s hard for them it’s easy for everyone else and if it’s easy for them it’s easy for everyone else, and that’s not true. When we can honor how difficult things are, you’re speaking to other people in our culture. It was really embarrassing for David to ask her to repeat that. But she is important and needs to apologize. People don’t want to acknowledge that, and David had to own that. David’s dad, who was a teacher, was teaching him how to spell piece v. The word peace—what’s wrong with our language? So he had him write each word 200 times on each piece of paper. David did that for 2.5 hours and you are showing a face of pain that lets me know how painful that was for me right now. He can’t spell piece of pizza, to this day. When you honor these things, there’s a bunch of people who can’t spell those things right now. Please think about who you can stand with to feel more comfortable making vulnerable statements with in public. What are David’s thoughts on people who are neurodiverse, who almost make fun of themselves for being that way? But if someone else were to do it, it would not be okay. David talks about qualifiers when he has low self esteem around something and has guilt about it. He said “don’t kill me for this, but I love football.” And a colleague said “why did you say it?” We’re trained to make those jokes and we are trained to be as invisible as the world needs us to be. It’s hard to change those habits and those are the habits we need to change to impact our self esteem. How do you bring up said special interests to people who aren’t neurodiverse without them saying “stop!” David asks her to repeat herself, he was thinking of how much he loves his partner and needed a repeat. His partner had to tell me “I love you, I need you to stop talking about this around me, talk about this with other people maybe?” I acknowledge people have boundaries and have choices. He preps people about D&D, let’s say, and he wants to talk about it for a week. He doesn’t have to apologize for his hyper focuses and his intense interests. He needs to find safe people to talk about it with. Like Call of Duty. But it’s really important to know your audience. Please remember that there is a Venn diagram around D&D that’s important to remember. One circle has to do with neurodivergence, one circle has to do with anti-oppression, and it's actually the whole circle: that’s D&D. Boundaries often feel very personal, but they’re rarely, if ever, really personal. When my partner is asking me to not talk about the thing, it’s not because of who I am, it’s because of what they need. It’s not them, it’s David’s briefcase (full of confidential information) that makes him react that way to someone touching it, not the person who is fiddling with it. You’re not wrong because they had a boundary. 

Places in Evanston, IL that David mentions:
Gigio's
Jeni's Splendid Ice Cream 

Who is Alyssa? Alyssa Tundidor is Eye to Eye's Senior Mentoring Program Coordinator who has been with the organization for six years, first as a volunteer and as an employee for the last two years. She has ADHDI (inattentive type), which was identified as such in the first grade, and wanted to support neurodiverse young people in the way she wishes she had been supported when she was younger.

What is Eye to Eye? Eye to Eye is a national organization whose mission is to improve the educational experience and outcomes of neurodiverse young people, while engaging them and their allies in the movement for a more equitable and inclusive society.

What's the IO? The Young Leaders' Organizing Institute (OI) brings together Eye to Eye student leaders from our programs to connect, learn, and train for the upcoming school year