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Brands That Podcast
Trailer
Bonus
Episode 1
Season 2
HubSpot: Driving Listener Growth w/ Jonathan Barshop
In this first episode of BTP Season 2, we talk to Jonathan Barshop who is responsible for all podcast growth at HubSpot. In case you didn’t know, HubSpot is making major moves in the world of podcasting. They're building one of the most impressive podcast networks, acquiring top shows like “Goal Digger” and “My First Million” to join the network.
We talk to Jonathan about the paid and organic channels he’s either used, is using, or plans to test to grow HubSpot's “My First Million” podcast, along with how a numbers-driven organization thinks about attribution for what is traditionally a dark, unattributable channel.
We also dive into TikTok’s effect on podcast growth and how Jonathan thinks about social attribution. This episode is full of advice for other brands who are thinking about starting a podcast or growing a top show.
About the Guest
- Name: Jonathan Barshop
- Role: Head of Podcast Growth at HubSpot
- Goal: Create a podcast growth playbook and apply it to all the shows in the HubSpot network, like My First Million and The Hustle
- Connect with Jonathan: LinkedIn | Twitter
Key Takeaways
08:58 – If you’re tired of renting space on other channels, pick a platform you can own.
HubSpot was tired of renting space on other platforms and felt like they milked all their SEO juice as far as they could, so they looked at podcasting as a platform they could both own and grow that could feed into all their other marketing channels.
“Basically, they kind of tapped into all the SEO juices they really could. And so they looked at the ecosystem and we're like, okay, what are other channels that we can leverage? And that we're just tired of renting space on. And podcasting was kind of the biggest one. Podcasting is something they've been doing also for the last 5-7 years. And so they had some experience there and a lot of the content that they're making on these podcasts are transferable to the blog, to YouTube, etc. So it just made sense for it to be the cornerstone of all the other strategies that we're building.”
11:27 – It’s important to keep your cost per download between the $1-$5 range.
With HubSpot being a data-driven organization, it’s important for them to track their cost per download, which equates to the number of downloads per dollar spent and the number of subscribers per dollar spent. Jonathan says it’s important to keep the range between $1 to $5. Anything lower typically translates to lower quality, short-term listeners.
“Ideally across all of our paid strategies, the average CPM is in the $1 to $5 range. You can pay 50 cents or less per listener, but you're going to get very, very, shitty listeners generally. It might not be like a click farm per se, but that's kind of what we're seeing on some ends. Some of those campaigns drive a good amount of downloads, but almost none of them end up staying.”
24:59 – Be strategic with your host-read ads scripts.
When creating scripts for host-read ads, focus on a happy medium between open-ended and highly scripted. Jonathan suggests using Jordan Harbinger’s talking points as a template and recommends giving the host 3 episodes from your show to choose from to call out in the read.
“Think about it in that way of what's scripted enough to where they don't miss any of the key things, and what's not overly scripted to where they can like still freestyle a bit? Rather than giving the host a laundry list of episodes to choose from, let me just pick three that I know will play well in an ad read, and then if they want to expand on it, great. But if they just mentioned, ‘Hey, they bought Michael Jordan's home or they want to buy Michael Jordan's home and turned him into a museum,’ it would still turn out good.”
30:22 – In order to increase your show’s chart rankings, you need to gain a large number of subscribers over a short period of time.
The best way to do that, according to Jonathan, is through giveaways. Dedicate a portion of your budget to a giveaways contest, like Jonathan did with My First Million. Anything you can do to entice listeners to subscribe over a short period of time will help you move the needle and increase your chart rankings.
“Number of subscribers over a short period of time is the biggest driver there. We did that early on and we got 300 plus reviews in 14 days, which was incredible, but it didn't really move the needle. Then, we did a more dialed-in [giveaway] where you can win 60 minutes with Sam and Shaan if you follow My First Million on Apple Podcasts and that worked. We got to the number 4 spot in the entrepreneurship category and 15 on business. But it's hard to do that really well.”
43:23 – Creating viral podcast clips for TikTok takes talent and dedication.
You can absolutely create video content from your podcast in-house using programs like Descript. However, Jonathan says if you want something with more “virality” for a platform like TikTok, you need to be prepared to dedicate 3+ hours towards scripting, finding B-roll footage, and editing. In this case, you might want to consider hiring outside help or working with a video editing agency if you don’t have the talent in-house to create that level of content.
“Do you want to just focus on TikTok and have someone pull those clips and make those style videos and have a huge opportunity to go viral there? Or do you want to be everywhere and then edit it in Descript and pull all those clips for all the different channels and sort of do a spray and pray approach? I don't think either of them is wrong, but you just got to decide what your goals are.”
45:32 – Podcast guesting, Facebook ads, and cross-promotion are the top 3 ways you can grow your podcast on a smaller budget.
If you have a smaller budget to dedicate towards podcast growth, Jonathan recommends staying away from host-read ads and network ads, and instead focusing on guesting on other shows, running targeted Facebook ads with your video clips, and working with other podcasters on cross-promotion.
“Save your shackles. Buy Descript, figure out that workflow, and then go the route of testing a few Facebook ads, just to see if that could be a viable option, guest on other shows, find cross promos. And then you have some budget to play around with and decide, ‘What can I funnel back into the quality of the show to make it better?’”
57:43 – Be realistic about your goals behind your podcasting strategy before you jump in.
If your goal is to start a podcast to get to the top of the charts, good luck! Jonathan says, even with wildly successful shows like My First Million, it’s a really challenging goal to run after. Instead, think about how podcasting fits into your business goals.
“I think first things first, just get real with yourself. Do you want to do it for the clout? Or do you have other business goals? If you have other business goals then perfect. Podcasting is the perfect thing for you because you can use it as a way to build relationships. You can use it as sales collateral. You can use it for so many things like that. And you have to ask yourself, ‘Is this something that I would want to do for five years on this topic?’”
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