This week I’m speaking to Clara Nosek, AKA Your Dietitian BFF. Outpatient dietitian by day, nutrition influencer-disruptor by night. This episode is all about getting to know the ‘new’ you post baby and figuring out this new identity; and finding your main character energy. We touch on so many other topics along the way - pandemic babies, the yes/and of pregnancy, the weird shit our bodies do, the toxic independence mothers are expected to perform. Unsolicited advice, finding your mom gang, sanctimommy culture, the overlap between diet culture and the pressure to be a perfect parent, and how the pipeline of perfect ‘mom’ to food-fear-mongering is a slip and slide. It’s a good time. LFG.

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Find out more about Clara here.

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Here’s the transcript in full.

Clara Nosek  And then there's also like, once you give birth, you are not who you were before. Right? are not who you were when you were pregnant. And so now who are, you have no idea. And so there's that trying to wrestle with that new you while also taking care of this other person, while also dealing with the pressure of like, okay, now I want to be like the perfect mom. And then while also like, like dealing with who am I to my partner, who am I to myself who am I to my friends? And I think yeah, like that's, it's weird. There's no books on that. 

Laura Thomas  Hey, welcome to Can I Have Another Snack podcast, where I'm asking my guests who or what they are nourishing right now and who or what is nourishing them? I'm Laura Thomas, an anti diet Registered nutritionist and author of the Can I Have Another Snack newsletter? Okay, so if last week's episode with Christy was a tear jerker, then this week's episode will make you laugh your ass off. I'm joined by your dietician BFF herself, Clara Nosek. Clara is an outpatient dietitian by day and a nutrition influencer disrupter by night, even though I'm pretty sure she would hate me calling her that. Clara is the creator of big sister nutrition or she'll tell you how she sees it, but she definitely won't tell you what to do. We talked about so many things on this episode. Like there's almost nothing that we don't touch on. We're talking about pandemic babies, the yes and of pregnancy and the weird shit that our bodies do. The toxic independence mothers are expected to perform. We talked about unsolicited advice, finding your mom gang, sanctimommy culture and the overlap between diet culture and the pressure to be a perfect parent. And how the pipeline of perfect mum to food fear mongering is a slip and slide. But what I think this episode is really about is getting to know the new you post baby and figuring out this new identity and finding your main character energy. And this conversation wouldn't be complete without a deep cultural analysis of reality TV, and why Clara loves it so hard. So after we recorded this episode, Clara sent me a side note she wanted to add about this conversation. So I'm just going to read the whole email now. Clara said I just had a thought that perhaps could use more context RE: The perfect mom to food fear mongering anti science pipeline, and that yes, one critical thinking and slash understanding is needed but also two the nuance and context of white supremacy and the creation of distrust, and the roots in how white people have treated/experimented on communities of colour. So from a black indigenous POC lens, there is historical evidence to dust distrust mainstream slash white standards, and white people who benefit and perpetuate and believe in the distrust, but can't be bothered to explore why it's there in the first place, or the role of white supremacy plays in informing those thoughts are problematic. And just to add to Clara's note here, I was also thinking about how science gets weaponized against communities of colour and marginalised communities to gaslight, their lived experience and undermine cultural medicines, for example. So just wanted to give that context to our conversation. I also wanted to add that guests on kind of have another sack are paid for their time on their labour for being here. This is not the norm in the podcast world, I think I've been paid maybe once for doing a podcast in my life. And I've done a lot of podcasts. But it's work. And that's why I want to make sure that the guests that appear on Can I Have Another Snack get paid. And the only way that this is possible is through the support of the people listening. So that's you guys, by supporting this work by becoming a subscriber. So I wanted to say thank you if you've already subscribed, all of this was just to say that Clara has decided to donate her honorarium for being here to Mississippi Rapid Response Coalition, who are working to bring relief and clean water to communities who need it most in Jackson, Mississippi. I'm also going to link to that fund so if you'd like to make your own contribution, then you can just click the link in the transcript for this episode. And while we are talking about subscriptions, I just wanted to let you know that you are listening to the long edit of this podcast episode. From October I'll be publishing a shorter edit here in your podcast player on a special long edit for paid subscribers of the Can I Have Another Snack newsletter. As a little bonus for supporting my work. Alongside weekly discussion threads, my dear Laura column, and loads of other fun perks, you can head to laurathomas.substack.com to subscribe, it's five pounds a month or 50 pounds for the year. And if that's inaccessible to you, for whatever reason, please email hello@laurathomasphd.co.uk for a comp subscription. I'm keeping all the content on Can I Have Another Snack free for the month of September and turning on the paid community features and paid subscriber only columns from October. If you value this work, you can help keep it sustainable by becoming a paid subscriber. And last thing, if you enjoyed this episode, I would really really appreciate it if you could support me by rating and reviewing it in your podcast player, and maybe even sharing it with a friend. It makes such a huge difference to a new podcast, I can't even tell you. So thank you for rating and reviewing. You can also find a full transcript of this episode over on substack. Again, that's laurathomas.substack.com. And I would really love it if you wanted to leave a comment over there to let us know what you thought of this conversation. And to keep the conversation going. All right team, here's Clara.

Laura Thomas  Alright, Clara, who or what are you nourishing right now?

Clara Nosek You know, I've had this thought a lot, recently, probably not framed in that way. But like, currently, this body I'm in now. When you're out of pregnancy, still sleep is questionable. At best. Also, this like role I'm in now as like an outpatient dietitian and learning the ins and outs of working in the medical industrial complex, and also be being in my 30s. Right as a cis het woman, female? What does that mean? What does that look like? Right? Because when I was a little kid, I always felt like when your thirty you're ancient and now that I'm here, I feel like I'm just starting. But it's also like now with pandemic and how that has reshaped the way people live their lives. Some people, most people, I would say, not all people just trying to figure all that out. So I am nourishing this ever evolving person.

Laura Thomas  Hmm. So many like little threads that I want to talk on there. But I suppose the one that feels kind of really relevant for this podcast. And when they I guess they all are, to one extent or another but this piece around sounded like you're sort of just familiarising yourself with your body as it is after having two babies. Can you tell us a little bit about that experience and sort of what that process looks like for you?

Clara Nosek  Yeah. So in pregnancy, so pre pregnancy, right? You have this idea of what being pregnant is like. 

Laura Thomas  And it's way better.

Clara Nosek  Oh, yeah, it's amazing. It's all unicorns and glitter.

Laura Thomas  I was getting so many pregnancy massages in my pregnancy fantasy. And in reality we were in lockdown.

Clara Nosek  Yeah, oh my God, even that, okay. So that alone, right. So, pregnancy in itself can be very isolating. And same with like that first year of motherhood. And like, compound that with pandemic like you are on an island. And I think you there's like this idea that, like, once you get pregnant, you should just know, you should know what to do. You should know what decisions to make. And so you don't really want to ask for help. Because I think that that that kind of lends itself to this idea. Like maybe I don't know everything. Maybe this doesn't come naturally. Maybe this is not an innate thing that I possess. So then you're like, that's the beginning of like, the mom guilt like what am I doing? Why don't I know what I'm doing? Everyone else seems to have it together. But when in reality, like nobody knows what they're doing nobody, like all the parenting books, all of those things. It's kind of like this very vague idea, concept of like, what it's like, but it's never anything. Like what you're experiencing. And I find that when you start to really talk about those things openly that people are like, yes, that is exactly it. Right? Like nobody talks about, like your nipples get really big, your armpits get really dark, you know, your body changes, obviously, but no one talks about like, there's a smell, right? When you after you give birth, you feel like you stink. And I like I thought I was going crazy. And I'm like, I think I smell. I smell something. And it's not, I don't know where it's coming from, but it's definitely coming from me. And I would like shower and still smell. And they're like, Oh, it's so that the baby can find you. And you're like, Why didn't anyone tell me that? Oh, or like, what else? When you're like in the midst of pregnancy, nobody warns you about how juicy your vagina gets? Do you know what I mean, you know exactly what I'm talking about. Like your labia just become, like very labia, like extra. And it's like, oh, that's new. But I don't remember reading that.

Laura Thomas  I'm just like getting so many flashbacks as you're talking like, I got restless leg syndrome when I was in my first trimester.

Clara Nosek  Oh my god. Yes. And like, nobody talks about those things. And I feel like, you know, your hair. You know, obviously, your hair gets different. Sometimes it's shiny, or sometimes it gets curlier

Laura Thomas  Mine was always just shit. So anyway.

Clara Nosek  Nevermind, so we won't talk about that. So no, totally not that not your hair. But I think that there's a lot of things like shrouded in mystery. That take away and I get right. Being pregnant is a gift. Not everyone. And it's a privilege and all these things. But I think that all and so there's like a shying away from talking about the not so pretty side. But I'm also of the mind that I was like, yes and right. Yes, Pregnancy is a gift. It's this beautiful thing. It's a privilege and not. And the reality is not everyone who wants to get pregnant can get pregnant and you know, X, Y and Z Yes. To all those experiences, those are valid and realities for many people. But also, yes, and and it's, it's not all cupcakes and roses, and all those other things. And it's like, if you're not ready to process any trauma that you have embodied through life, it's gonna come, it's gonna come either whether you're pregnant, whether that baby comes or whether you're like, raising this tiny human. Just every Yeah. And on top of that, you're tired. You're under slept. Maybe you're not eating as much. You like literally just in a brain fog for like the first two years. 

Laura Thomas  Yeah, seriously, everyone is like, I don't know. I think there's like this imaginary cut off line at like six months, where suddenly everything gets better. And I'm like, There's no fucking way goes on years. You, you touched on something that I thought was like, so important, and I'm just kind of trying to figure out like, I think I think I know what you meant, but I just want to make sure I'm understanding you. You kind of like, all of these things that we're talking about. And, you know, just like all the stuff that happens to your body, and how it's kind of shrouded in mystery, and like, we don't talk about it. And I think, you know, we don't ask for help around it. And I think that that kind of extends into just motherhood as well. This kind of, like toxic independence. Yeah, I don't know if you've thought about that. But what do you think that's about? I mean, I have some theories, but I'm really curious to hear what you think.

Clara Nosek  I think it's that expectation that you should know what to do. And it's like this So it's the expectation that you should know what to do, and that you should be making the right decision. But also, there is this experience that so you know, when you like, are just living life and someone gives you advice unprovoked. And if you don't do what they say, it's almost like a personal assault on that person. I think that same phenomenon happens in motherhood. But instead of it being like, kind of this thing that you experience, and it goes on, it's like compounding. So if you don't do if you don't raise your child in a similar way, to that of someone close to you. And they're like, I did this, this worked for me. So you should do this too. And you don't often times there is almost like, this defensiveness. And on top of now you try to figure out what's best for you and your baby. It's a ‘How can I manage this relationship with this other adult so that I can also mother their feelings?’

Laura Thomas  Yeah. 

Clara Nosek  And so you're doing all those things. And it just gets to a point where you're like, I'm not going to, I'm just like, not going to talk to anyone about it. Because it's not helpful. Like, I'm sorry, that you don't like the response that I have given you, you don't, it's not in alignment with what you've done. It doesn't detract from the way you did it. Because that is your reality, that's what you did. That's what you thought was best for you and your baby at the time. And if what I'm doing is not in alignment with that, it's not an attack to you as a mother, but more so in support of me, becoming the mother that I want to be. So you're thinking that, like, thank you so much for that wonderful piece of information. But also, and I'm going to do it this other way. And, you know, you kind of avoid, you just try to avoid that conflict, because like, you know, you're, you're, you're tired, you're sleepy, your emotions are everywhere, hormonally, you're still recovering. There's like all these things that are changing. And on top of that, now you have to process a big feeling that someone else is having with them. And so there's like, this hyper independence is like, No, I'm just gonna figure it out myself. Because, yeah, like, this is too much like, I can't, I can't hold that for you, as well as hold all of these other things together for me.

Laura Thomas  And I guess I was, I don't know if this is what you meant. But I was also thinking about it from just the I guess the way that capitalism thrives is by kind of keeping us all feeling like we're in this alone. This is like, you know, it's us against the system, which is, but But yeah, it kind of keeps us separated from community and from, you know, places where, if we had open conversations about this, we wouldn't feel so isolated, we wouldn't feel so alone, we wouldn't maybe feel like so defensive. You know, if someone was doing something different from us, in terms of our parenting,

Clara Nosek  100%, which is why I think it's so important for moms to have mom friends. Like have your mom gang. That is a quintessential piece of motherhood community.

Laura Thomas  But going back to, like, COVID babies, how did you navigate that loss of, you know, at least in real life community.

Clara Nosek  So I was really lucky. And I had my first child pre pandemic. So she was born in 2018. So we had two years of like, normal life. I mean, she probably doesn't remember it, but um, you know, I had a girlfriend who got pregnant a couple of months before me. And then so you know, the pregnancy pact work there. And then I had gone to a breastfeeding class. And I made some mom friends there and we kind of formed our own little like, breast friend group where you like, just a place, you know, a safe place to like vent and we all did things differently, like we all parented in our own way, and it was nice because there's no like, you just felt free to do it. And there was just support in that sense. Yeah. Obviously, if there was like harm that could, if there was a red flag that we wanted to, like, bring to attention. It was always like a place, it's coming from a place of like, just genuine concern. But also like, it's none of my business what you do kind of thing. And so with my second baby, my second I already kind of had that in place. I did, I did dip a toe into mommy Facebook, which I do not recommend.

Laura Thomas  Or this is kind of what I was wondering is like, you know, when we're so when we're so isolated during COVID So many of us spent so much more time on social media than with people in real life. And then there's that like Mom, influencer culture, right? That kind of, you know, constantly comparing with these. in inverted commas perfect moms on the internet. Is that something like did you notice a difference between like with that kind of thing between your first and your second?

Clara Nosek  Yes. So there is, so I was like, did you ever get into the baby wearing communities?

Laura Thomas  No. Okay, so I took tangentially, so I did wear my baby a lot, but not because like, Well, at first I was like, okay, yeah, this is a cute thing to do. But then when he was fucking 18 months old, and weighed what however many kilogrammes he weighed, at that point, I was still dealing with pelvic girdle pain, and he still refused to go like in the buggy. And I was like, I remember putting on my Instagram Stories once. Like, I really need to figure out another way to transport this child because it's breaking my body. And the baby baby wears came at me there were like, but it's so beautiful. Why would you put your child

Clara Nosek  Oh my god, yeah, the sanctimommies. I can't, I can't, I hate the vibe is not there. Yeah, I very quickly realised so like, even as a child. I remember I have this very distinct memory talking to my mom and saying and she said, you know, You shocked me about me and my sister. And she was like saying how we're very different in that. My sister was like, very gregarious, she has a lot of friends there like every like some like some of them were very consistent but she always had like a varying group of friends. And I was always the type to have like, I had like one or two friends that I was friends with for like, decades right your insight from still and still am right so we still have group chats from like high school. And I think that going into finding mom friends was still very, very clear. And so like when I was in those spaces the mommy wearing community, the Insta mom, the mom influencers, right? It's kind of like this is not my vibe. I don't align with this feeling so I'm just not going to like I'd much rather just be by myself. Yeah, subject myself to that kind of like, comparison spiral. Right? So like, and it's everywhere. It's always like, like, did you ever get into like the Nugget community?

Laura Thomas  What is that?

Clara Nosek  Oh my gosh, that's these amazing couches for kids. Right? So that they don't they're like play couches. It's like two foam pieces and two rectangles and like two foam.

Laura Thomas  I think I have seen this but I think it's a US thing. I don't I don't think we get them here. Okay, I'm probably gonna get 100 People like coming for me now, but I will I will fact check this. But yeah, I think I know what you're talking about.

Clara Nosek  So it's kinda like the same thing. And it's like this like peacocking this like, very much who has a bigger mom penis, right? Like I have, you know, I have 17 Nuggets. You don't? What's your kids play with? kind of situation or like, the same thing, like, you know, you don't like wearing your baby, you must be doing it wrong. And it's like, it's there's no space for like, you one mom could like wearing their baby and you could very much not like wearing your baby. Both of those things can exist. Yeah, those are both realities. And just because you don't like to wear, it doesn't take away from the mom who does like to wear it. And I think that like, just going into it. Navigating the mom, social media space like that is very mentally protective.

Laura Thomas  Yeah. And like, that's the kind of thing that they should be teaching you and how to kind of armour up for that stuff. Because I think like I'm, I'm kind of, it's something I'm kind of interrogating at the moment is just like how influenced I was by that stuff, even though I feel like, I was like, at the time, I was like, this, this is this isn't going in. It is and it was and like, I'm having to really unpack that and challenge. Like those ideals. Like, there's this great Instagram called struggle care, I don't know, if you've come across. It's like a therapist, and she just talks about, like, how she basically just like, draws a line between like housework stuff that is inspirational and aspirational, versus like, what is necessary and functional. And so she talks about it from the perspective of like, you know, if you see people who have like, I don't know, it could like, I think about it through in the, in the context of food, right, because that's like, my lens and bodies. But like, if you imagine a kid's plate, that's, you know, like, got all those fucking star shapes. And, you know, like, the sandwich is cut into the shape of a fire truck, or, you know, whatever. And it looks like Instagrammable. Like, she would say that that's, that's not what you need to do to feed your child that is a hobby. And so she just like kind of, I don't know, kind of helps helps, like, bring it down to okay, what is actually essential here for looking after your child and what is, like I said, a hobby. And I don't like I think separating out and like thinking about that lens. Like when I see, like a perfectly curated playroom on Instagram. I'm like, oh, yeah, that's a nice hobby for someone to decorate their kid's room and like, chews out all the fucking wooden toys. Or like if their kids play is like that. I'm like, oh, yeah, that's a nice hobby for you. That's not an essential part of looking after a child. Does that make sense?

Clara Nosek  Yeah. 100% 100% Yeah. So if you look at mom life, through the lens of diet, culture, life, there a lot of overlap

Laura Thomas  Interesting

Clara Nosek  And so, you know, it kind of harkens back to, you know, everyone wanting to be the perfect mom. And it comes from that place of fear. Well, not being enough of not meeting the standard, not trying to do whatever and I totally get, like, I posted the other day, maybe a couple months ago. I posted what I was feeding my kid.

Laura Thomas  Oh my god, I was gonna ask you about this because I've messaged you at the time.

Clara Nosek  Oh, okay. So yeah, so that like, so I just posted because I think it's funny because like, all you see are like, you know, I do I have a rice baller? Yes, I do. Do I? You know would I like to be the mom that puts like, the little pics on it. You know, I have all like, the fun shapes the cutout thing. Yeah, I do. I do that sometimes when I have the bandwidth, but most of the time, it's like you're eating what I'm eating. That's just, that's just what's gonna happen. Okay, if you don't like it, there's other things you can eat. Like, my kids are not going to starve. They're going to be exposed to a variety of foods, you know,

Laura Thomas  Right. It's functional. It's that functional piece that yes?

Clara Nosek  Yeah, like, you know, there's a lot of the like the pipeline for perfect mom full answer to like non science like, Monk science. Food fear mongering. Like, anti Vax. It's, it is is a slip and slide. Okay, it's very easy to go from one, one place to another. And I understand the idea of wanting what's best for your kid I get that. I, I see that and navigating that on top of like, all the conflicting, you know, information that's out there, right that because of the internet, everything is at your fingertips. But because of the internet, now everything is at your fingertips. And it requires a level of critical thinking, a level of understanding for scientific jargon, a level of familiarity with scientific research. And what do those results mean? Right. A, you know, like something will say like, it's trending towards significance. Like, is it? It's so, so it's not significant as what that sentence says to me. 

Laura Thomas  But I still want to get my paper published. 

Clara Nosek  Yeah, yes. And I get that, right. Everybody's got to make money. Under the umbrella of capitalism. I understand. Everybody needs to make money. But it's like, there's something that gets like switch to if you're not with me or against me. Yeah. Yeah. And I think the same thing happens, you know, in our space in dietetics, in, like, if you don't eat, the way I eat, and the way I eat makes me feel better. which then makes me feel like a good person, which then means I am a good person, which then means I'm better than someone who is a bad person. The pipeline is a slide.

Laura Thomas  So tell us about when you posted your kid’s food.

Clara Nosek  Um, when I posted my kid’s food, okay, so what did I feed?

Laura Thomas  I think there were some goldfish involved. 

Clara Nosek  There was goldfish, there was probably Cheerios, I think there's yoghurt. And I don't know what else.

Laura Thomas  There's like a fruit or something, I'm pretty sure like,

Clara Nosek  There's a mixture. Usually I have like, there's things that he'll eat things that will provide nutrition, nutrient dense, calorically dense and things that I'm trying to introduce. Right. So that's, that's the that's my sort of formula for how to do stuff for how I did things, not for how anyone else should do it. But I had moms in my DMs like, how could you poison your like very loaded language, like very much. I expect you as a dietician to understand the toxicity that you are imparting on your child by feeding them this garbage. This trash this poison, I'm carrying, like, a for me, I'm like, Oh, my gosh, what is it like to be the world's most perfect mom? To be all knowing to know more than the government? To know more than scientific researchers who test the toxicity of these things? What school did you go to? What programme were you in? What research articles are you privy to that not everyone else is privy to? Please do share with the class.

Laura Thomas  I think what I was thinking about like when we were talking about that toxic independence earlier, and also like the parallels between momfluencer culture and diet culture, I was just like, but the common denominator is white supremacy culture. And it's again, that's what we're seeing here that like perfectionism, but also that defensiveness and like, and all of the things and yeah. I feel that we would do so much better if we were to take some time to unpack that than to get in people's faces if they feed their kids some crackers.

Clara Nosek  Yeah, there's also like that level of privilege that it assumes right? So, how how could you feed your kid this easily accessible, calorically dense like their babies, they need calories to grow. Right? Does this mean that this is all I'm feeding my kid? No. But does that mean I have the privilege of access to a variety of foods also? Yes. And it's like, well, what if that's what if that's all that a mom can afford? What if McDonald's is the only thing a mom can give to their child to get them to the next day's breakfast and lunch that they get at school? Right? And it's like, instead of getting mad at the parent, why are we not questioning the system that has created this situation? Yeah. And it's like, when you push that, it's like, well, I did it. So why can't someone else do it? And it's like, no one is taking away from the fact that you did it. And that's great that you were able to survive that no one is trying to diminish or invalidate that experience. But just because you did it. Does that mean that we can't be better for the future? Does that mean that there cannot be advancement in this space? Does that not mean, we can use technology to improve things going forward? Like, What a strange way I like I can't, I can't wrap my head around it to be in that place where like, because I struggled, I also want you to struggle, because then if you don't struggle, what does that mean for me? And that, that, that level of unpacking is not for me, that is to be escalated to a higher level of care to someone who is educated in that space to be able to unpack that with that person in their own time. Right. Like, that's not my responsibility. I just want to like, you know, plant that seed, like, what does that mean? Why does why? So I'm currently reading The Sum of Us, have you heard that?

Laura Thomas  I feel like I, that sounds really familiar, but I can't pinpoint it.

Clara Nosek  So the sum of us is a book by Heather McGee. It's frickin amazing. So it's basically about how it's very American, the American Lens, I'm putting my hands over my head, like an umbrella like you can see me. And so basically speaks to foundationally how America was set up in a way that if I have and you don't have, the only way for you to have is by taking away from me not to say, yeah, we can all have. 

Laura Thomas  Yeah. So that that's how capitalism creates competition, right? Yeah. Like from from the day we go to school, we're taught like, well, the only way that you can be good is if, you know, by, by, like, standing on the head of your peers and just climbing all over them.

Clara Nosek  And it it's how that premise informs, like, compounded with like white supremacy, and the patriarchy, how that informs society, and how now it's like, if I'm feeding my kid, goldfish how is that taking away from the mom who feeds their kid? I don't know. Buckwheat, homemade. Buckwheat, banana crackers.

Laura Thomas  Sorry, that just gives me such a flashback to like my uber uber wellness days where I would make like soaked buckwheat porridge.

Clara Nosek  Okay.

Laura Thomas  Oh my god. I'm just like, it's just, I can taste it in my mouth. And it's vile.

Clara Nosek  But, so so you get it, right? Like the like, yeah, that idea. So that kind of like thread is in all of these spaces. And now we have to, to navigate it in a way where it's like, I have to know, I must know that what I'm doing doesn't take away from this person. And this person reaching out to me is so what I'm posting triggered something in that person.

Laura ThomasYeah. It's a trauma response.

Clara NosekIs it my responsibility to to help that person unpack that? Know? Is it a great teachable moment for this is what happens when we allow that like need for perfection to influence our daily activities?

Laura Thomas  Yeah, like our interactions and our relationships with other humans.

Clara Nosek  Yeah. And so you know, just trying to really avoid this toxicity. But like, yeah, you know, I was I was very into baby wearing, I wanted to wear so badly my first child, she hated it, she has never been a cuddly baby. Like she, she would be worn only when she was sick. Oh, like, I would get like little little sprinkles of babywearing. And what you find is okay, so like those slings, like I the things that I wanted, they're like frickin expensive. But if you were in those mommy communities, the mommy wearing communities, they had those BSTs you know, they had like, buy sell trades, right? So you would get, like, so they would all be like used, but they would be discounted, you could essentially trade them. And so there is a financial gain to being in these groups. Right? And luckily for me, my, so that's okay, so that also speaks to the yes, and. Are these communities toxic? Yes. And are they fiscally responsible to be in? Also yes. So, you know, you kind of like take everything with a grain of salt. You kind of like see like the the sanctomommies, the perfect moms, like, whatever with their stuff, and you kind of just are like, okay, bye, um, but like, my second kid, like, loved to be worn. I wore him for like, the first six to eight months of like, his life. He loved it. And so I had like, got to scratch that itch. But that's usually like more for me, right? That was like, I could have just held them, like with my hands. But like,

Laura Thomas  Yeah, but it's so it is so liberating when you can, like, I remember cooking whole entire meals with my newborn strapped to me. And I was like, Oh, this is amazing. It's like, it's like, you know what? I we were out like a week ago, and he would not fall asleep in his like, as we were pushing him around, so I had to strap on the fucking sling. He's two. He's over two, this kid. So yeah, it still happens. I did like this is a total like side note. But I did just want to shout out Mia O'Malley's plus size babywearing account. I don't know if you came across that. Oh, but it's an incredible resource for fat, plus size women who want to wear their kids because I feel like that can be like, I've spoken to a lot of like friends and clients who feel like I'm, I'm too fat to have worn my kid or to wear my kid. And this account basically is just like, here's how you can you can wear your kid in a fat body and it's totally fine. And if you want to do it, you can totally do it. Here's how we do it. So it's just a great resource for anyone who really wants to but feels like they can't. 

Clara Nosek  Yeah, oh, this is awesome.

Laura Thomas  I love that you've just gone and looked that up right now. So like something I also I wanted to ask you about kind of, you know, bringing it back to what you said, you were nourishing at the very beginning. You know, you're you're figuring out this body right now. Having gone through two pregnancies. And I've also heard you talk about concepts like Sonya Renee Taylor's radical self love and body liberation. And I'm just curious, you know, what those mean to you now? After having two babies and where you're, you know, what's that relationship with your body like now? And it's okay, if it's a, an evolving thing.

Clara Nosek  So how do those amazing authors, how have they impacted where I am today?

Laura Thomas  Or just, you know, I guess something I've been thinking a lot about is regardless of the body size that you have, before pregnancy, the chances are you gain some weight during pregnancy and your body ends up being bigger than prior to having a child and obviously there's you know, snapback culture and then there's, you know, just like all the all the emphasis from diet culture to lose the baby weight from people around you and the is also this narrative, the kind of countering, like discourse that I see is like, well, you should love your body, it's done this amazing thing, and you're a miracle. And I guess it's the kind of the, you know, sitting with the Yes, and of that, and the reality that your body has been through this huge thing. And you are different now, your body is different now. And there's also the reality that, if your body has got bigger, there's a loss of privilege that coincides with that, you know, even if it is just like a, you know, sort of fractionally less privileged than you were now, I think there is still a grief, maybe a grieving process associated with that. So these are like the kinds of thoughts that are rattling around in my brain just now. And I don't know if any of that resonates with your experiences.

Clara Nosek  100%. I think that, So personally, I have always welcomed change. Just in my life, not so much like in myself, like, not so much physically, but like mentally and experientially change is inevitable, right? Like things are meant to change. And if things don't change, I think there's like, you know, red flag, right. But I think physically, with body changes, with motherhood with, you know, whether the body change comes from motherhood, or just comes from life. Yeah, there's a grieving period. But also, like, what are you grieving? Right? There's like this idea of like, well, why why? Why is that? Why did I? Why do I feel so sad? And that is for you know, the individual to unpack and maybe that will lead them down a path of more exploration, which is great. I think in regards to like, the snapback stuff, right, I, I always, like, hated it, because it's like, you're going back physically, there's this push to go back physically, but like, no mention of like the emotional, mental, spiritual side of going back to who that person was before. And I don't think that there's enough space given to a person whose body changes to like, recognise that that person is gone. Yeah. But not so much is gone, but has like, essentially birthed this new person. And so now you're like, in this, you're like, in your dating phase? Right? You're getting to know this person. And I often I love, paralleling, dating, and dieting. But I think that this, this also, is there, right? So like, you know, when your first your first meeting someone you're getting to know someone, it can go one of two ways. It goes really great, or it goes really awful. And oftentimes, right? Like, when you're dieting, you're doing all these things, or you're doing all these essentially punishing yourself. It doesn't it more often than not, doesn't end. And the same way with getting to know this new body, getting to know this new version of you. Like, when you are acting in a place of like, I should be doing all these things. You're guilting and you're shoulding all over yourself, you're shaming yourself, right? It doesn't, it doesn't lend itself to be becoming this positive space for exploration. And so, and there's almost like this invalidation, right like so if I said you know, I'm not happy. I'm not happy with the way my body is currently. I could be not happy with the way my body is. But I can also extend respect to myself to know that I shouldn't punish myself because I don't I'm not happy. And is it messy? Yeah, like am I working through you know, on a daily basis working through like, oh, I don't like the way my arms look in the shirts. Why don't I like the way my arms look in the shirt? What is it is about your arms? You're in a shirt, right like are that idea of like don't put that jacket over your sleeveless shirt. With your arms will look how they look in a jacket, they will look how they look in a sleeveless shirt. Like, you're not gonna know. It's not you're not hiding anything. And so I guess it's kind of like, you know, in that sense, who are you now surrounding yourself with? If the people around you are supporting that idea of like, you should put a jacket on, you might want to hide it? Or is it like girls don't wear the jacket? It's, it's 90 degrees? Do you really need to be wearing a denim jacket right now? And, and so I think that having these messy conversations are important, just like in pregnancy, just like in diet culture, just like postpartum conversations, figuring out mom life, right? It's all on a spectrum. There's the moms who, you know, you go from one extreme to the next, whatever is the opposite of the mom influencer. And knowing that they exist, but knowing that they're not existing, that they don't exist to make you feel bad, that they just exist, that's just what's available. But maybe yours looks different. And that's also okay. And, like, just because you don't see it, does it mean that what you're experiencing is not valid?

Laura Thomas  I heard you say, another podcast, that, you know, when you give birth, there's kind of an emptiness. And I'm, I guess, you're meaning that sort of, metaphorically as well as literally. And that's that diet culture kind of takes advantage. Like it's really predatory. In terms of like, giving you something to fill up on, even while you're simultaneously starving yourself. Like, you know, besides the point, can you talk to that idea a little more? 

Clara Nosek  Yeah. Okay. So when you're pregnant, I always felt like people will bend over backwards to hold the door for you. To give you their seat to do it. Well, I guess this is kind of like pre pandemic experience. Right? When you're pregnant. Just it seems like the ability to help is there. Right? Just people are, the kindness is available. And then once you give birth, like it evaporates is gone. You like, don't get seen, you're not seen anymore, it seems like and then it's like that kindness is no longer like extended to you. Right? So like I have, I have been on my way, walking into a mall. With my stroller, the car seat, the bag, you know, everything right? And whatever else I'm carrying the partridge in a pear tree. Right? And you're trying to struggle like to open the door and people are just like walking in the other doors, right? Like, this is the like, when I'm pregnant. I can open it. Don't worry, I can open a door.

Laura Thomas  Now, when I really need your help,

Clara Nosek  Maybe I can use my foot down open the door. Yeah, and so like there's that there's that aspect, right? There's

Laura Thomas  And I love it as well when people kind of like, watch you in the struggle. And just like, I remember trying to get into a cafe that had like this, like steps and like a really narrow door. And people were just sat and they just were like watching me. And I was like you could offer a hand here. But they didn't. Anyways, I digress. 

Clara Nosek  And then there's also like, you once you give birth, you are not who you were before. Right? You're not who you were when you were pregnant. And so now who are, you have no idea. And so there's that trying to wrestle with that new you while also taking care of this other person, while also dealing with the pressure of like, okay, now I want to be like the perfect mom. And then while also like, like dealing with who am I to my partner who am I to myself, who am I to my friends? And I think yeah, like that's, it's weird. There's no books on that. No. And so I think that like trying to decipher who who that person is and trying to fill it right because you're like building this new relationship you're starting essentially at Ground Zero. Yeah, with like, this pressure to like you want to be what you look like before you got pregnant or like even better and it's like, but that person doesn't exist anymore. 

Laura Thomas  And it's so convenient that you know when when you're struggling to figure out who your identity is, here comes diet culture, offering you this, like, you know, McMansion identity you know, maybe that was a bad analogy but you know what I mean? Like an identikit identity.

Clara Nosek  There's a community and I get it, right. Like, there's, you know, the like, get your you and along with all these other moms can get your post baby body back. And there's like this, like idea. It's this predatory thing where like, you are all in this space, you are all navigating a very similar journey together. And here, you can do it in community, right? Because we're human, we, we need community, we need community. And so now here is this offering, where you can satisfy that need for community you are while simultaneously highlighting all your insecurities, but now you're all insecure about it together. Like I saw this tik tok the other day, where this girl was talking about how she got the fat removed from the bottom of her chin. And she feels better and I feel like you know, what, if that's what makes you feel better, good for you. Whatever, right, like, Okay, this exists. But now it's like I found myself this morning, even looking in the mirror and like, I also have that little pouch. Little little fat pouch under my chin.

Laura Thomas  Okay, you saw the Vogue story with Linda Evangelista, right? 

Clara Nosek  No, oh, my God. Oh, is that the one she got like, cool sculpt on her stomach and stuff like that. 

Laura Thomas  Okay. Like, I couldn't bring myself to read all the details. Because like,

Clara Nosek  I think that's really that's the one then yes.

Laura Thomas  I really like what's the word? Like, I get really nauseous reading medical stuff in too much depth. But it was, you know, I don't think it was her stomach. I think it was like her jaw. And so obviously, Linda Evangelista she’s, like a supermodel from the nineties? Yes. And she did. They're like freezing the fat on her face. And I don't know exactly what happened. But it went wrong. And now literally, she won't be seen in public without like a hat and a scarf covering her face, like completely covering her face. But she's on the cover of Vogue. Maybe I don't know if it's UK or US.Like it said in the interview. I didn't read the interview, I read like a new story about it that she'd like had her face clipped in place in the photos. And I was like, Okay, well, if that is not a deterrent then I don't know what it is, ya know? 

Clara Nosek  And it's like, you know, there's, like, I get part of, you know, you get it, right. Like, there's this pressure to be frozen in no time. There's this pressure to age gracefully, like, what does that even mean? And like, there's this pressure to meet this societal standard of a way of looking that will be palatable to a large number of people. And I think that recognising when people are allowed to do whatever they want to do to their body, or to understanding like, this, the reasons why that person feels like they need to look a certain way, and just maybe creating a space or yelling into the void, that beauty standards are ever evolving. They are a distraction. They are in the grand scheme of things. You know, this is our skin sack on a rock floating through space. And here we are paying bills. Right. So there's that. Yeah, it's, you know, I just, I think that like, talking about the messiness, without, what I do hate is when someone's like, you just had a baby, like, what a gift and you should just be positive about it. You know, look at all these great things, and it's like, shut up. Because it's like, like, what a way to invalidate like things. Things can suck and things can be great all at the same time. And You know, maybe even like, is this venting space or do you want, do you want me to like hype you up?

Laura Thomas  Yeah. And I think that, yeah, I think that's what I'm trying to do with this podcast a little bit, is think about, you know, like I said, before we, as postpartum people, we are offered like these binaries of like, snap back, or be grateful and love your body. And there's just no room in there. For the messiness, like you said, the grief, the trauma, the loss of privileged that, you know, the just figuring out your identity, that whole piece is such a head, fuck. So, yeah, thank you for talking to all of the messiness. I wanted to ask you, you know, with all of that in mind, who or what is nourishing you right now?

Clara Nosek I'd say it's a mixture. So I have this really good offline community of my family. Both my immediate family and my extended family very close by. I also am a huge fan of reality TV, so I just finished love Island last night, because I know that here in the States, we're like, a week or two behind.

Laura Thomas  Okay. Yeah, it finished a few weeks ago here.

Clara Nosek  Yeah, I just finished it last night. And I'm gonna move on to my next thing. I love reality TV. I love you know, “trash TV”. I love anything Bravo, anything E. I watch. I watch it all. Documentaries, I'll do that sometimes if I need something a little bit more cerebral. But like, I love, love all those kinds. That genre of television.

Laura Thomas  I mean, anyone who's spent more than a minute on your Instagram knows that.

Clara Nosek  You're like, Yeah, we know. We know. You don't have to tell us, we're there.

Laura Thomas  But it's also like, interesting to hear what you get from that, you know, which I think is what you were, like, getting to.

Clara Nosek  It's like a massage. I feel like for my brain. Like, and I will say, I think that a lot of so I I'm I'm 34 as of last week, 

Laura Thomas  I knew you were a Leo, I was gonna ask you on your birthday was, mine's tomorrow. So we're very close.

Clara Nosek  Sun sisters! So I grew up on reality TV show, right? Like the first I guess like a little bit of real world a little bit of Keeping Up With The Kardashians a little bit of like XY and Z. Right. So The Simple Life and all those, The Hills, Laguna Beach, yes, all of those in my formative years, I absorbed all of that content, which probably is why I am the way I am. I think that there's something nostaligic about reality TV and the fact that it's like this, you know, as an adult. Now, I know that this is all curated, it's edited to look a certain way. And there's all these other things. And there's also like this glimpse into, like the messiness, right, there's like a lot of infighting, there's a lot of like, drama, and whenever and I think it's like almost like a very sterile environment to engage in that stress. Like my husband hates it, he can't he's like, this is too much for me. It's giving it's right, making my blood pressure go all the way. All the way up my anxiety. My anxiety is through the roof. But like there's something calming about watching other people navigate life. Yeah, in this like, almost bubble,

Laura Thomas  Because it's not your life.

Clara Nosek  Like I love like, oh my gosh, what a terrible thing for you to experience that I do not have to but like, yeah, I don't know. I frickin love it. I think it's like a massage for your brain. I also think it's very telling, right? So like, if you watch back, the Laguna Beach, the hills, there's almost like this. There's like main character energy, right? So the first the first Hills there's, it's LC, the second hills, it's the other girl, or it's Kristen. And then there's the younger class, and so on and so forth. But there's like this idea that there's a main character in every story and I think watching that, you know, going into my early 20s I carried that with me like I carried like, I am the main character of the story. Everyone should be like flocking to me for my advice. I need to be like very be black and white very, like why would you do and growing up now realising like, that's not a reality, right? Like that's not real? What happens in real life. And I guess like watching it now with that in mind knowing that everybody has their own shit going on. And just watching people navigate that, whether it be Real Housewives of every, every city, I watched them all understanding that this is all hyperbole like these are all dramatised times 100. Yeah, but knowing that like, and there's like this evolution, that's where it's going the evolution so if you watch love Island, there is a lot of like, if you watch love Island, did you? Did you watch it?

Laura Thomas  I didn't watch it. I'm really sorry to say, 

Clara Nosek  Okay, so bye I'm logging off of this call. We have nothing to talk about. So the first season,

Laura Thomas  I just feel like it was gonna make me feel so bad about myself. But I said that to my friend. And she was like, no, no,

Clara Nosek  No, no, it won't, it won't. So the season of love Island is like, it is TV Gold. It is just raw. Like you can tell it's very. So you watch that, compare it to love island now. It's a very different show. Okay, the editing is different, the cast is different all this stuff is different. And I do know that there was some like, like trigger warning, there was some some cases of unaliving there were things like that that have happened mental health issues that have arisen from those types of shows, which speaks to an even bigger, broader conversation about like the the negative impacts these reality TV shows has on the people who are on them. Yeah, talk for another day. But if you look at the evolution of love Island, from what it was to what it is today, it's like, there's growth, or not even growth, but there's like, there's, it's like a learning thing, right? So they've added from what I've read, they've added like there's an onboarding with like mental health, like psychologists, there's like social work involved, there's therapy, there's all these things that go into the offloading process, right off the show. And yeah, I just the conversations that they have, there's like a self awareness that I feel like people gain from being on that show, or like just being under the spotlight being in that, that I think those types of conversations, sprinkle into everyday life, like people are a little bit more self aware. People understand it, like, there is this

Laura Thomas  Yeah, you're saying that it like, these kinds of shows shape the culture and the conversations that we're having, and they have, you know, how the power to imbue like good stuff. Yes. Okay. They're a force for change.

Clara Nosek  I love that. And also be entertaining. And I know that, like, it seems silly, but it's also like, it's like a jumping off point for more conversation.

Laura Thomas  Yeah, yeah. No, I hear what you're saying. And like, I, like I don't get me wrong. I love me a reality TV show. But like,I never really thought that deeply about them. So I appreciate.

Clara Nosek  Yeah, let me write a thesis on why these are important. Yeah, it's just fascinating. And I love it. And I think that, like everyone should watch reality TV. And also, it's a great place to learn like, so you can overlap fuckboys and diet and dieting. And there's there's an overlap.

Laura Thomas  I feel like I just saw, did you do a post on this?

Clara Nosek  I did. I did.

Laura Thomas  I would link to it.

Clara Nosek  I feel like boys in general, dating. Dating in general, I feel like there's an overlap, right? Because you're trying to fit yourself to this idea of, like, let me fit to this other person. Right? And the same way that like dieting is like let me fit to this other ideal of this person. That's not me. And at the end of the day, really what we're looking for is someone that is supportive. But like you are your own person, you don't need someone to complete you. You are a whole person already. And so yeah, that's like a lot of manifesting. I would love to write a book dissertation on this. Because I feel like you know, it's when you are solely like working on yourself that other person is complimentary. And not supplementary because you are not missing anything. You don't need someone, but it's nice to want someone you know if that's what you're into, maybe you don't want anyone but like, yeah, that overlap, I think is really this. 

Laura Thomas  Yeah. I'll link to that post and also if there are any literary agents out there

Clara Nosek  I'm ready. I have a whole I like it's done. It's in my brain.

Laura Thomas  It's there. It's ready to go. Before we go, can you tell everyone what you are snacking on? Right now?

Clara Nosek  I am snacking on smoothies that I'm obsessed with. I don't' know, I make a lot of smoothies,

Laura Thomas  You make a lot of smoothies. And it's become this whole like, controversial thing. I don't know if we want to go there. 

Clara Nosek  That is a topic for another day. 

Laura Thomas  Yeah, we will do a round two, doing a deep dive, a smoothie deep dive. But okay, what is your go to smoothie that you're making right now?

Clara Nosek  So I go between strawberry banana, strawberry berry. And this banana. So banana berry, banana, strawberry or banana? Have you, did you, are you on the Tik Tok? 

Laura Thomas  I can't do it. I just feel like I'm too old.

Clara Nosek  You're one you're not too old, two, 

Laura Thomas But also I feel when I like, Okay, so if I watch it tik tok, like I'll watch them on Instagram. But I feel like

Clara Nosek  Like most millennials, yes, tell me more.

Laura Thomas  But I also feel like me going on tik tok is like, what boomers are on facebook. I'm an elder millennial. I have no right.

Clara Nosek  I love tik tok.

Laura Thomas  I know.

Clara Nosek  Yeah, well, you're like I'm there. We follow you. We see what you're posting

Laura Thomas  You are the person that I watch most of my tiktoks through, What were you gonna say about tik tok?

Clara Nosek  There is an influencer on Instagram. Her name is Marianna Hewitt love her left her from like, back when she was like just blogging. So she has her own like, skincare company now. Whatever. She has a smoothie with this like very boujee very boujee grocery store in LA. And they

Laura Thomas  Erewhon?

Clara Nosek  Yeah. 

Laura Thomas  Okay, everyone knows about that one.

Clara Nosek  Yes. And so she had this like very famous $17 smoothie. And me being who I am, which is really a cheapo I am very cheap. I'm very frugal. I hate spending money on

Laura Thomas  Yeah, well who the fuck pays $17 for a smoothie anyway.

Clara Nosek  Good for them. I wish I could be that person. Um, but I found the recipe and I've been making it, it's freaking delicious. Obviously, I add other things right? Because like, I'll add I powder oats in all my smoothies

Laura Thomas  Because it's delicious. gives it body

Clara Nosek  Complex carbohydrates are really great for gut health. You know, all those like those superfood words like it's really great for gut health. It's really good to decrease inflammation. All those things right. So I'll add, controversial, a couple of frozen cauliflowers because we won't go into that. Love fibre. We're a fibre household fibre forward and yeah, I make it at home. I bought blue spirulina for purely aesthetic purposes. And so I've been making those so I go between a purple smoothie, a pink smoothie and a blue smoothie. Those are my smoothie go tos.

Laura Thomas  I love that they're just like, the colour is the identifying feature.

Clara Nosek  I don't know if you know this about me, but I am very visual. I am a sucker for good marketing. I, well someone asked the other day like how do you decide what supplements to buy? And I say okay, first you want to check if it's third party tested. You want to look for NSF USP all those things right? Yeah. Next, you hold those up

Laura Thomas  Pick the one that has a good brand.

Clara Nosek  I was like, then pick which one is the prettiest? That's step two. 

Laura Thomas  I love that you are like subverting wellness culture. Like you're just yeah, you're like it's here. I'm going to take the piss out of it, but I'm also going to ingest it.

Clara Nosek  I'm complex in that sense. My toxic trait is that I love toxic wellness culture. I just love it. I love the you know I get it's the millennial in me. I love the way it looks. The aesthetic Yeah. I am the target demographic, but I am plagued with critical thought. I'm kidding, I'm kidding. I'm that's a joke.

Laura Thomas  No, no, no, like, I was just gonna say what my thing is because it's also. So my thing is kind of witchy which I feel like is also like, hyper targeted at people like me. And so I low key buy into.

Clara Nosek  Oh I openly, have you done Teledipity yet?

Laura Thomas  I'm like scared to even ask.

Clara Nosek  I'm gonna text you the link so that you can try it when, maybe you can include this in the podcast, maybe not whatever.

Laura Thomas  I'll put it in the show notes. Maybe this is where the bonus content for subscribers.

Clara Nosek  Basically, it's like, its horoscope, its horoscope, numerology and your name. It takes all of those into consideration. And then you get like this. It spits out like what you should be doing in life. There's like a word salad of things that describe you. And then it goes into detail about all the things that like, just things about you. So it's like Enneagram. It's like a, you know, any horoscope, birth chart, whatever. It's kind of in line with that. It's just fun. I made all my friends do it. And like it's just fun. 

Laura Thomas  It's going to be my birthday present myself. That's what I'm going to do. So my thing is a candle. It's by Mama Moon candles, which I think you're probably only gonna get in the UK but whatever I can like ship you one if you want. That was you, Clara, not you the entire audience because I don't have the resources for that. But it's called Spiritual Bleach. And it's rosemary, sage, and lemon, which are all obviously clarifying. And I just love the fact that it's called Spiritual Bleach who doesn't need that. And it smells amazing. And you can light it on a full moon or just a Tuesday night. It doesn't matter. That's my thing. I will link to it in the show notes. I'll link to your thing in the show notes with some of your smoothie recipes and this teledipity situation. Clara. Before we go, can you tell everyone where they can find you on the internet?

Clara Nosek  You can find me being a digital menace on Instagram @yourdietitianBFF I'm also on on the tiktok @yourdietitianBFF you can also find me online because your girl has a website now, claranosek.com, because I'm an adult and I have a I've literally been putting it off for years.

Laura Thomas  Why? It feels icky?

Clara Nosek  I just like didn't, I just didn't want to I guess I didn't. I don't know. It's probably something I need to unpack myself.

Laura Thomas  I haven't updated my website in seven years. So it's fine. Like, I get it.

Clara Nosek  It's just yeah, so it's just something there. But I understand the need to take up like digital space in that way. So yeah, you can find me on my website, which links to ways other various ways to get in contact with me. Yeah, if there's any literary agent who wants to talk more about the overlap, the Venn diagram of dating, and dating, hit your girl up. I'm here. I'm ready.

Laura Thomas  It's, yeah, it's a book we all need. Ah, well, thank you for being here. And delighting us with, you know, all of the things especially unpacking the cultural powerhouse that is reality TV. We appreciate you being here. Thank you. 

Clara Nosek  Thank you. 

Laura Thomas  Thank you so much for listening to this week's episode of Can I Have Another Snack? If you enjoyed this episode, please take a moment to rate and review in your podcast player and head over to laurathomas.substack.com for the full transcript of this conversation, plus links we discussed in the episode and how you can find out more about this week's guest. While you're over there, consider signing up for either a free or paid subscription Can I Have Another Snack? newsletter, where I'm exploring topics around bodies, identity and appetite, especially as it relates to parenting. Also, it's totally cool if you're not a parent, you're welcome too. We're building a really awesome community of cool, creative and smart people who are committed to ending the tyranny of body shame and intergenerational transmission of disordered eating. Can I Have Another Snack? is hosted by me, Laura Thomas, edited by Joeli Kelly, our funky artwork is by Caitlin Preyser. And the music is by Jason Barkhouse. And lastly Fiona Bray keeps me on track and makes sure this episode gets out every week. This episode wouldn't be possible without your support. So thank you for being here and valuing my work and I'll catch you next week.

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