Sasha starts by trying to explain some background of our grief story. Issues such as deceased parents, bad relationships, and miscarriages are references but without detail. There is a switch recorded, when a new (to the podcast) alter (name not disclosed) clarifies what we mean by “forgiveness” and that this is not a religious construction or a free pass excusing the abuser. The second half of the episode is Sasha again, and then Taylor, explaining what happened when someone hotlined is to family services because of our mental health. They then discuss the internal response to this experience, and explore the impact of new traumas on a system and its disruption to the healing process. The child abuse pattern of being helpless and feeling punished without having done anything wrong is referenced, but no specific memory content or graphic material is discussed.