{"type":"rich","version":"1.0","provider_name":"Transistor","provider_url":"https://transistor.fm","author_name":"The Question: Design System Collaborative Learning","title":"Episode 078 Deep Dive: The Psychology of Design Systems with Ben Callahan and Kacey Wood","html":"","width":"100%","height":180,"duration":2936,"description":"On Episode 078, Ben Callahan is joined by Kacey Wood, Product Designer for Design Systems at Tabs and member of Redwoods design system community. She and Ben open the floor to the community on the psychological side of systems work.\nThe survey went out to over 1,100 design system practitioners and drew 50 responses across four questions. The community digs into reactance theory, where influence becomes manipulation, power dynamics and reporting structure, the behavioral concepts behind buy-in, and what any of this means when the consumer is an AI agent.\nShow Notes\n00:04 — Welcome and episode framing\n00:36 — Kacey Wood's path from data analytics to design systems\n01:21 — Building 0 to 1 at BetMGM, then starting over at Tabs\n03:45 — The four questions we asked this week\n04:41 — 50 responses from over 1,100 practitioners\n09:12 — Janesa Chan on how org placement shapes perception\n10:43 — Nobody relies on just one buy-in tactic\n11:38 — Data isn't enough, the story is what convinces\n12:31 — Peter Allen on collaboration versus mandate\n13:27 — Guy Segal challenges the influence/manipulation framing\n15:08 — Kacey on whether you're willing to lose\n16:11 — Steven Deeds on manipulation as disingenuous influence\n18:37 — Reactance theory, explained through a picky eater\n20:03 — Daniel Florez on skin in the game\n21:01 — Janesa Chan on giving designers the choice\n22:53 — Amy Ogg on power dynamics and reporting lines\n25:19 — Guy Segal on why educating people doesn't work\n28:40 — Endowment effect, curse of knowledge, social proof\n29:36 — The IKEA effect and giving people a win\n31:00 — Aristotle's modes of persuasion\n33:58 — Rebecca Ostrich on not condescending to people\n38:19 — ToniAnn Drenckhahn: design systems makes me a better person\n39:17 — Kyle Hyams on soft skills over craft\n41:22 — AI has no reactance, so what changes?\n43:56 — Peter Allen's personal note to his AI agents\nWhere to Find the Hosts\nBen Callahan is Founder of Sparkbox (https://sparkbox.com) and Redwoods Design...","thumbnail_url":"https://img.transistorcdn.com/8ZoZhDyVederAFF-YGuNFdyaUvqzao3a6rYS6VFp3F4/rs:fill:0:0:1/w:400/h:400/q:60/mb:500000/aHR0cHM6Ly9pbWct/dXBsb2FkLXByb2R1/Y3Rpb24udHJhbnNp/c3Rvci5mbS9kMjQ2/MjJjYzdiYmY4MWU0/NGQzMjJmOGUyNzlj/YmMwZS5wbmc.webp","thumbnail_width":300,"thumbnail_height":300}