{"type":"rich","version":"1.0","provider_name":"Transistor","provider_url":"https://transistor.fm","author_name":"Cheers & Tiers: Design Leadership Tales Retold","title":"025: Debbie Millman & Michael Bierut of AIGA New York","html":"","width":"100%","height":180,"duration":3308,"description":"Before they were design royalty, Debbie Millman and Michael Bierut both remember what it felt like to be on the outside. Debbie got kicked out of an AIGA special interest group for doing work that was “too commercial.” Michael, working at one of design’s most prestigious studios, felt like a dinosaur compared to the experimental West Coast crowd.In the late 1990s, before you could connect with designers online, AIGA was the only game in town. And getting seated next to the right person at a leadership dinner could change everything.This is the story of how two people who didn’t quite fit in helped transform AIGA from an exclusive club into something more like a real community—one email, one dinner, one “yes” at a time.Key TakeawaysAIGA retreats were the only channel: Before digital, sitting next to the right person at dinner could change your career.Both sides felt excluded: Too experimental and too commercial designers have been shut out by AIGA—sometimes at the same timeGetting kicked out taught inclusion: Being told her work was too commercial shaped how Debbie led as president.Leadership means making space: Especially for people who feel like outsiders.Saying yes builds community: To emails, invitations, and people who aren’t in the club.AIGA survived by embracing change: Desktop publishing, the internet, social media—every threat became an evolution.Key Moments in This Episode03:08 – The dinner that changed everything: Debbie sits next to Michael at the Baltimore leadership retreat11:06 – Why that first dinner mattered: AIGA felt elitist, and the warmth of one conversation shifted everything12:33 – The evolution question: Milton Glaser voices what democratizing AIGA will mean for the organization's identity18:46 – Getting kicked out: Debbie is removed from the brand experience group for being too commercial27:59 – AIGA’s impact on career: Both credit the organization as essential to their success30:12 – Before digital connection existed: AIGA was the only...","thumbnail_url":"https://img.transistorcdn.com/fRTE46TBHbhBelcFPNhk4XdGpc9OMvYRuOAUT6lBkhM/rs:fill:0:0:1/w:400/h:400/q:60/mb:500000/aHR0cHM6Ly9pbWct/dXBsb2FkLXByb2R1/Y3Rpb24udHJhbnNp/c3Rvci5mbS8xZTdk/YjAzMjhmMTE2ZTc1/YTU4N2RjMTQ3ZTY4/ZDM1NS5wbmc.webp","thumbnail_width":300,"thumbnail_height":300}