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This file was generated by Descript 

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Kevin: Hello and welcome
to uh, Subspace Radio.

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It's me, Kevin,

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Rob: and me, Rob.

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Kevin: And if I sound a little different,
it's because I am coming to you from

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a secret holiday destination and I
don't have my regular mic with me.

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But we're doing the best we can, Rob.

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Rob: You can't stop the signal.

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I know I'm using another reference
from a different franchise, but

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Kevin: Oh, is that

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Rob: That is from Serenity.

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So that

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Kevin: Oh, of course it

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Rob: The final in the Firefly series
that they tried to carry on into movies.

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It just couldn't, it couldn't stick
even though it was a brilliant show.

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Can't stop the signal.

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Kevin: uh, We'll have to do a
Serenity cast sometime when we

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run outta Star Trek episodes.

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Rob: There, look, there are some
Browncoats out there who would, who

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would be very excited to hear that.

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Kevin: but this week we are talking
about the season finale or finales,

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depending on how you slice it,
of Star Trek Prodigy season one.

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Supernova parts one and two.

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Rob: the real actual finale as
opposed to the mid-season finale,

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that seemed like the end of a
season finale halfway through.

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Yeah.

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Yeah, they we're on track now,
Nickelodeon, and you've done good.

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That's how you do a season finale.

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Kevin: Nothing is the
same again after this

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Rob: Nothing at all.

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No.

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But yes.

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And how did you, in, in general terms
and the, as a first impression, how'd

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you find this as a season finale?

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We've done so many seasoned
finale's, you and I.

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This is our third,

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Kevin: Yeah, gosh, you're
in such quick succession.

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Yeah.

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I really enjoyed it.

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I thought it was a great
culmination to the season.

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The moment to moment watching
of it, like having watched it

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twice now, I enjoy it more as I'm
watching it than reflecting on it.

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I don't know if that means anything,
but I think that's probably what you

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want is to enjoy the actual watching.

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And this is an enjoyable watch for sure.

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Yeah, it was it brought a lot of, there
were a lot of bookends in this where

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that reached way back to the very first
episode and I was like, wow, this is,

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even though they gave it to us in two big
chunks, it was clear they planned this

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whole season out from beginning to end
and planted some seeds at the start that

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would only pay off in this final chapter.

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And it feels like satisfying TV to me.

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How about you, Rob?

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Rob: Yeah, yeah.

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Really loved it and really some really
nice emotional beats in there that hit a

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lot better than they possibly should have.

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And um, really nice set up, not only
paying off things that have been

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established in the season before or
leading up to it, but also some nice setup

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for where we are going to go, which is,

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Kevin: Gosh.

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Yeah, some big promises.

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Rob: Yeah, big promises and especially
while I was watching this season,

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I'm going, where do they go?

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Where can this actually go?

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Was cuz it's been defined by this
structure of, you know, those uninitiated

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embracing Starfleet from the outside.

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So it's gonna be very interesting to see.

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Does it just, Just a regular, another
regular Star Trek show or does Yeah.

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And lose what was so unique
and special about it, or does

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it go to that next level?

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It's gonna be very interesting to see.

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Kevin: Yeah, there was some moments in
this where I was watching the action and I

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was like, wow, there's a lot of spaceship
eye candy here of ducking and weaving

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and be in a dog fight with the Defiant.

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Hello Deep Space Nine fans.

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Rob: Very happy here.

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We were, we went.

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We did our nod.

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We did our our classed hands
together going Thank you.

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Thank you so much.

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Defiant's here.

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We love you.

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Kevin: The Enterprise E is buried
in that armada somewhere as well.

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You don't get a great look at it,
but there are some freeze frames

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online that spot the registry
number on a rapidly passing nacelle.

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And so they were there, which is
good to see them post Nemesis as

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Rob: Look now your influence over me
is becoming more and more apparent.

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The more we do this, Kevin, because
it you dropped a little thought worm

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into my head and it just stayed with me
the whole time, especially when we had

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the epicness of part one of Supernova.

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I'm there going, logically and
policy-wise, this wouldn't happen.

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But because of the plot point of them
needing to have all the Federation

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ships and calling every Federation
ship and they went, oh, this is Star,

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star Federation policy, I'm going no.

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Cuz it's just one ship.

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There should've just been at least one
or two ships to have the entire armada.

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That's the only way the plot, and I'm
doing inverted commas again, could happen.

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So I was all the way through going.

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Yep.

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There's a lot of eye candy here,
there's a lot of explosions

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and a high body count as well.

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Like for a Nickelodeon show.

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I'm going the Star Trek execs shuffled in
and went, okay, our time we could do this

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Kevin: Oh yeah.

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They bring in the Klingons.

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I just thought those are the
friendliest Klingon I've ever seen in

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Star Trek that they responded, yeah.

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Minutes later.

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The Bird of Prey is like
breaking apart in front of us.

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I was like, oh, no.

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Rob: Um, But yeah, I was just
there going this is a dumb move.

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It's just happening for plot purposes.

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In reality, you would only have
one or two ships there that would

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be more than enough to outnumber.

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Yeah.

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This what they know of the
Protostar and the gang there.

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But it led to this incredibly dramatic
and tense, well-written episode, one.

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Like you had all hope was lost.

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Then they used the ingenuity
to come up with this great

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idea, and that started to work.

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And then the next kicker to bring to
the cliffhanger brought everything down.

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So I'm jumping ahead.

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Kevin: That final sting of we
got the Klingons and the other

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races to come and rescue us.

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It's like the classic friendship
solves everything sort of Nickelodeon

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solution, and then they, oh, no,
the computers aren't playing ball.

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The automated distress calls
are bringing in more Federation

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ships, and it's not going to work.

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To be continued.

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It was a yeah.

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Gut

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Rob: To end with the line, Total
annihilation is a hell of a way to

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finish off a Nickelodeon episode.

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Can I just say, I dunno if
Rocco's Modern Life ever finished

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with an episode like that

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Kevin: the, I feel like the
first part was the ship battles

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episode and Supernova part two
was the character payoffs episode.

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And it worked well.

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Rob: and it definitely showed that it was
like we were in the land of television

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because they resolved it quite quickly.

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Not conveniently, not in an easy
way, as a very efficient way of

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doing it and getting to that point
and hitting those emotional points.

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But then we had that luxury of the
remaining half of the episode to be

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like the epilogue of the episode.

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A month later and the trial and the
deliberation and then the goodbyes,

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and then the, it just like where in
a movie you'd like end with them,

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being rescued and that was it.

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But they went, no, we're television.

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We can take that time to really
explore their ventures, their

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first steps on actual, on the
on the streets of San Francisco.

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Kevin: Yeah.

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A highlight for me was the
character puzzle in the hallway.

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When our crew comes face to face with
Drednok in the hallway, and he pins,

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you know, he gives the gravity mine and
he, he freezes Murf against the wall and

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electrocutes Zero and pins Dal against
the wall with the little boomerang thing.

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And then they had to figure
out how to work together to,

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to extract themselves from it.

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Lovely little moment
of just here they are.

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They only succeed together.

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It was almost too cute.

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But as a, like a reinforcing
moment of just how much they've

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grown together and work together
well I really love that payoff.

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Rob: balance it out when you've got
that almost too cute for its own good

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working as a team will solve everything.

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And then you realize in the
background, there's just a carcasses

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of Federation ships everywhere.

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And then they, so it's that balance
that I think they got all right.

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Kevin: Bringing back the translators
failing and them not being able

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to communicate with each other.

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That's another example of the
book ending of the series.

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They, these characters started not
being able to understand each other and

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got a taste of that at the end here as

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Rob: and not that much of a problem
for them because it was quite, it was

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solved quite quickly by Gwyn who's
proving herself over and over again

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to be a far more qualified captain.

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Kevin: One of those camera passing
over the shoulder into a non-literal

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depiction of the events with Gwyn
speaking in English to the Klingons,

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even though we are to understand
she is speaking in Klingon to them.

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Um, yeah.

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Really good.

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Rob: So yeah.

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And Ronnie Cox was back
for a little bit as

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Kevin: Yes, I now understand why
Admiral Jellico is in this series.

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He was here to make one poor
decision in the finale, which is

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to send the boarding party in.

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And despite despite Janeway's uh,
understanding of the situation,

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Rob: Cox is fast becoming the
uh, Jar Jar Binks of Star Trek.

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We go who's gonna be the poor schmuck that
lets the emperor stay on for this time?

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Ugh!

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Well, who's the poor schmuck who's
gonna send the boarding party on.

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Kevin: I assume Admiral Jellico does
some good things too, but at least

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on screen his career is not the most
illustrious, but it doesn't seem

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to have kept him from moving up in

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Rob: Look, we are all the lead
characters in our own story, in our own

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life, obviously, and I'm sure Jellico
has his incredible moments in his

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own spinoff that he has in his head.

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But will anybody tune in to
watch the Jellico spinoff series?

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I think not.

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Um, And a shock death.

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I didn't expect.

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I knew that.

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Like I knew the Diviner's
death was probably gonna come,

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but I didn't expect it to be.

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I thought it was gonna happen
in part two of Supernova.

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But yeah.

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Kevin: Yeah.

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Spear to the spear, to the
uh, offscreen, midsection.

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Rob: Always gets you an
animation, doesn't it?

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That non-disclosed midsection

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Kevin: He died pretty easy, I have
to say, like given that he was found

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floating in the remains of his asteroid
by Janeway and crew and revived

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the fact that one, one spear to the
middle was enough to do him in fe.

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Felt a

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Rob: yeah, it was a little bit.

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Kevin: easy.

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Rob: They wanted to get rid of John
Noble really quickly for some reason.

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So I dunno what they've got against him.

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But yes but we did get a very much
relating back to Star Wars, a very

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much a Darth Vader at the end of New
Hope we had the Diviner flying off for

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further missions or causing further
mischief, which we will have to hopefully

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Kevin: The Vindicator.

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That whole, the whole like sword fight
on the bridge with the like camera, often

00:10:22.842 --> 00:10:27.067
panning outside of the bridge, seeing them
jumping on the platforms through glass.

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It did have a very Empire Strikes
Back final battle with Darth Vader.

00:10:31.909 --> 00:10:34.429
Like, it, It felt like
the lightsaber battle to

00:10:34.659 --> 00:10:38.177
Rob: And we had been building up for that
because, the Vindicator had been getting

00:10:38.177 --> 00:10:40.087
through, getting away with so much.

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We wanted there to be some sort of,
come on, Gwyn just kick her ass.

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But,

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Kevin: Oh, she's, she relishes being evil
in just the right amount of punchability.

00:10:50.892 --> 00:10:51.312
Rob: Yes.

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Kevin: Like, you are gonna pay for this.

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And she goes, ah, maybe but not today.

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And steps back into the robot.

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It was just like, Ooh, yeah,
we're gonna enjoy her comeuppance.

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Rob: She's enjoying putting a bit more
pepper on those lines, especially in that

00:11:03.803 --> 00:11:07.253
particular episode, like with beaming
a board and she was knocking out the

00:11:07.343 --> 00:11:09.383
Federation guy and all that type of stuff.

00:11:09.383 --> 00:11:11.963
She was, oh, and and
Drednok did a judo chop.

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Kevin: Oh yes.

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Chop

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Rob: All the things he could
have done, he does a judo chop.

00:11:18.234 --> 00:11:23.417
But yes, we then get to how did you
find the the solution in part two

00:11:23.477 --> 00:11:29.735
of the only way to save the day is
to use the weakness of the Protostar

00:11:29.795 --> 00:11:31.685
and its strength at the same time.

00:11:32.130 --> 00:11:36.168
Kevin: Yeah it works in the moment,
but this is what I was talking

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about before that on reflection,
I find it a little unsatisfying.

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Just that they could have done
that at any point in the past

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Rob: Yeah.

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Kevin: If the goal is to save the
Federation or save Starfleet from this

00:11:49.517 --> 00:11:51.901
virus, yes, self destruct the ship.

00:11:52.321 --> 00:11:55.705
Uh, apparently that was something
available to them all this time, but  they

00:11:55.705 --> 00:11:58.195
didn't do it until they had no other

00:11:58.350 --> 00:11:59.670
Rob: No other choice.

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Kevin: Yeah, I guess is okay.

00:12:01.177 --> 00:12:05.716
There was a lot of when Zero explains
the plan and they on the bridge,

00:12:05.716 --> 00:12:10.190
like summon the 3D wireframe image
of the ship shooting and exploding

00:12:10.195 --> 00:12:12.230
in pieces a along the route.

00:12:12.320 --> 00:12:18.200
And then later in part two, Janeway
when addressing the Federation Council,

00:12:18.200 --> 00:12:24.080
just in the middle of a speech summons
a hologram of the Protostar ship in

00:12:24.080 --> 00:12:25.320
the middle of the conference room.

00:12:25.320 --> 00:12:30.506
There's a significant amount of people
summoning, improvised holograms to make

00:12:30.506 --> 00:12:35.254
points in the middle of conversations,
that I'm like, who d like who drew that?

00:12:35.284 --> 00:12:37.024
Like, when did you draw that?

00:12:37.051 --> 00:12:39.928
Rob: They did have a month between,
so there's, clearly there's a lot

00:12:39.928 --> 00:12:44.251
to do in star— there's a whole
section to prepare every form of

00:12:44.256 --> 00:12:46.711
every known hologram imaginable to be

00:12:46.916 --> 00:12:50.936
Kevin: But I think it's just, I think it's
an expediency of storytelling when you've

00:12:50.936 --> 00:12:55.103
got a 30 minute cartoon and you've gotta
get it through a certain amount of plot.

00:12:55.103 --> 00:12:58.013
It's handy just to go look
at this, it explains it.

00:12:58.084 --> 00:13:01.564
Without going, please join me in the
conference room so I can show you

00:13:01.564 --> 00:13:03.345
a presentation I prepared earlier.

00:13:03.405 --> 00:13:04.765
It's just the, let's get to it.

00:13:04.765 --> 00:13:05.335
Let's get to

00:13:05.460 --> 00:13:09.021
Rob: it's the old, problem, a
conundrum within any sci-fi show

00:13:09.021 --> 00:13:12.981
is that, is there going to be the
whiteboard or the blackboard moment.

00:13:13.311 --> 00:13:16.611
Like in Back to the Future II,
where Doc Brown literally gets

00:13:16.611 --> 00:13:20.314
a blackboard out to explain time
travel and alternate dimensions.

00:13:20.346 --> 00:13:23.971
So yeah, it was very much that case
of Zero going here we go, right here.

00:13:24.211 --> 00:13:26.311
And it just so happens to
come out when I need it.

00:13:26.491 --> 00:13:30.819
And and not only, and the two
different wormholes comparing it

00:13:30.819 --> 00:13:32.049
and they look exactly the same.

00:13:32.049 --> 00:13:32.919
Cause of course they do.

00:13:33.664 --> 00:13:33.904
Kevin: Yep.

00:13:33.904 --> 00:13:34.294
Yep.

00:13:34.314 --> 00:13:38.004
We're well into part two here, so I
think it's probably worth talking about.

00:13:38.004 --> 00:13:41.803
What to me is the heart of this
two-parter is hollow Jane way's

00:13:41.803 --> 00:13:44.630
sacrifice of herself to save the crew.

00:13:44.630 --> 00:13:49.948
That the moment she realizes she
doesn't fit on the Isolinear and you

00:13:49.948 --> 00:13:54.163
see exactly what she's going to do,
they don't have to explain it to you

00:13:54.388 --> 00:13:59.128
until afterwards when they're explaining
it to the kids, what has happened.

00:13:59.212 --> 00:14:03.292
Really like great writing, great
performance, great animation, all

00:14:03.292 --> 00:14:07.672
working together there to create
what even on second viewing to me

00:14:07.672 --> 00:14:12.081
was like, a knot in my stomach of
this emotional end of a character

00:14:12.081 --> 00:14:14.541
that is just a training simulation.

00:14:14.571 --> 00:14:17.485
But it pulled the heartstrings
real, real well for

00:14:17.580 --> 00:14:21.836
Rob: Well, it was, and definitely
a clever use of time jumping within

00:14:21.836 --> 00:14:26.306
narrative structure, because obviously
Janeway finds out this, has enough

00:14:26.306 --> 00:14:31.201
time to record the farewell message
and then Dal comes in whereas it

00:14:31.201 --> 00:14:33.350
jumps ahead to cut out that part.

00:14:33.350 --> 00:14:35.400
So we don't know until that point.

00:14:35.449 --> 00:14:35.779
But yeah,

00:14:35.894 --> 00:14:38.177
Kevin: But as she's lying
to them and saying, don't

00:14:38.177 --> 00:14:39.587
worry, I'll be there with you.

00:14:39.592 --> 00:14:40.419
Take the chip.

00:14:40.449 --> 00:14:46.065
Mulgrew's like perha, I think maybe
Mulgrew's best dramatic performance

00:14:46.095 --> 00:14:52.336
that I can remember it right now
anyway of the saying it'll be fine.

00:14:53.266 --> 00:14:57.314
And walking that tight balance that we
as the audience can spot the emotion

00:14:57.319 --> 00:14:59.759
in her voice but the characters can't.

00:14:59.841 --> 00:15:01.221
Beautiful dramatic tension there.

00:15:01.436 --> 00:15:02.876
Rob: Look, it is a gift.

00:15:02.966 --> 00:15:07.766
It is a gift that we as a star Trek
fans have been given, Kate Mulgrew

00:15:08.006 --> 00:15:14.006
and the fact that she has blessed us
by coming back to do this shows that

00:15:14.696 --> 00:15:19.496
we do not deserve her, and we should
appreciate her for all that she is.

00:15:19.501 --> 00:15:21.006
And she's always been overlooked.

00:15:21.956 --> 00:15:26.638
And I'm so grateful that, Prodigy,
this little quirky, weird show that

00:15:26.668 --> 00:15:31.048
I had no idea about that I would get
this invested into and a lot of other

00:15:31.048 --> 00:15:36.178
Star Trek fans as well, is giving this
platform to not only an incredible

00:15:36.178 --> 00:15:41.248
character, but a wonderful performer
and giving that chance to shine again.

00:15:41.248 --> 00:15:45.505
And hopefully that gets people to
appreciate, in retrospect to go back

00:15:45.510 --> 00:15:51.565
and rewatch Voyager and see what they
missed out on because yeah, just her

00:15:51.865 --> 00:15:56.625
vocal work, as I've said before, she's
done voiceover work with character work

00:15:56.805 --> 00:15:58.905
before with animated series of Batman.

00:15:59.085 --> 00:16:02.385
So she's showing her expertise
not only as a performer, but

00:16:02.385 --> 00:16:03.945
specifically as a voiceover actor.

00:16:04.120 --> 00:16:04.870
Kevin: A master of the

00:16:05.070 --> 00:16:05.730
Rob: Master.

00:16:05.820 --> 00:16:06.240
Master.

00:16:06.270 --> 00:16:08.430
We do not deserve her, but we have her.

00:16:08.550 --> 00:16:10.667
So let's relish her and praise her.

00:16:11.967 --> 00:16:16.285
Kevin: The scenes without dialogue of
the crew jumping into the improvised

00:16:16.285 --> 00:16:22.015
shuttle craft and being like, sucked
out of the cargo bay, at an odd angle

00:16:22.015 --> 00:16:23.755
and tumbling away from the ship.

00:16:23.785 --> 00:16:29.575
It's all played without dialogue and the
music is doing an amazing job there of

00:16:29.575 --> 00:16:32.149
making us feel the moment, feel the loss,

00:16:32.379 --> 00:16:34.119
Rob: And you feel the
weight of the ship as well?

00:16:34.119 --> 00:16:39.487
Cause like its front, it's it's front
rudder is out and so it's being dragged

00:16:39.487 --> 00:16:40.744
out cause it's, it's just a copy.

00:16:40.744 --> 00:16:42.874
So it has no impulse engines or anything.

00:16:42.874 --> 00:16:44.734
It's just the barest minimum.

00:16:44.734 --> 00:16:46.067
They don't even have seat belts.

00:16:46.138 --> 00:16:48.928
Grab onto a, hang onto a pole
and grab onto your butts.

00:16:49.253 --> 00:16:50.515
Kevin: Uh, it's so good.

00:16:50.515 --> 00:16:51.457
What does it remind me of?

00:16:51.457 --> 00:16:53.893
It reminds me, here's a deep cut.

00:16:53.953 --> 00:16:59.931
It reminds me of Apollo 13 when the
movie or the actual events, but the

00:16:59.931 --> 00:17:03.651
depiction in the movie is certainly what
tugged me at tugged my heartstrings.

00:17:03.651 --> 00:17:08.061
Similarly, that the crew spends— it's
not a perfect match, but in Apollo 13,

00:17:08.241 --> 00:17:13.350
the crew retreats to the lunar module
for life support in order to make their

00:17:13.350 --> 00:17:15.480
way, their long way home to Earth.

00:17:15.480 --> 00:17:19.560
And then at the end of the story,
that lunar module is not designed

00:17:19.560 --> 00:17:20.685
to get them down to Earth.

00:17:20.685 --> 00:17:24.237
They need to leave it behind, so they
pile back into the command module and

00:17:24.267 --> 00:17:26.487
then cut it loose and it tumbles away.

00:17:26.517 --> 00:17:29.787
And that same feeling of,
it's an inanimate object.

00:17:29.787 --> 00:17:35.109
It doesn't mean anything, but, oh, that
thing was our home for all this time.

00:17:35.122 --> 00:17:38.722
It has that same feeling as they're
leaving the Protostar and looking around

00:17:38.722 --> 00:17:43.298
at everything for the last time of this
shouldn't hurt as much as it does, but it

00:17:43.773 --> 00:17:47.663
Rob: Exactly, and especially they
flip it right around, as all sci-fi

00:17:47.663 --> 00:17:52.133
shows like this do, we've invested so
much into the Protostar and we have

00:17:52.133 --> 00:17:55.193
waited till the last possible moment
for it to be destroyed when it could

00:17:55.193 --> 00:17:56.663
have been destroyed at any point.

00:17:56.737 --> 00:17:59.887
And then as soon as they get back to
Federation and they're a part of it, they

00:17:59.887 --> 00:18:01.477
just go, oh yeah, that was a prototype.

00:18:01.597 --> 00:18:03.457
We got a, we got another, we only

00:18:03.512 --> 00:18:04.082
Kevin: It's better.

00:18:04.082 --> 00:18:04.712
It's better.

00:18:04.712 --> 00:18:05.282
It's much

00:18:05.557 --> 00:18:09.007
Rob: It's bigger, it's better,
it's sexier, and I'll love you more

00:18:09.007 --> 00:18:10.597
than the original one ever did.

00:18:10.641 --> 00:18:15.867
Kevin: I gotta shout out to the artists
for the nebula, the sparkly nebula

00:18:15.867 --> 00:18:20.115
that forms when the Protostar explodes
and just it's played in silence.

00:18:20.115 --> 00:18:21.675
The music drops away.

00:18:21.825 --> 00:18:22.725
The ship warps.

00:18:22.725 --> 00:18:27.321
And, whew this sparkly vision appears
in the sky, and surely they're gonna

00:18:27.321 --> 00:18:28.941
call that the Janeway nebula or

00:18:29.216 --> 00:18:31.106
Rob: It's gotta be,
it's gotta be the Jane.

00:18:31.701 --> 00:18:34.791
Kevin: But I was like, it's just like
I want to freeze that and use it as my

00:18:34.791 --> 00:18:36.651
desktop background for the next year.

00:18:36.651 --> 00:18:38.931
It was just such a beautiful piece of eye

00:18:39.251 --> 00:18:40.571
Rob: they've excelled
themselves, haven't they?

00:18:40.571 --> 00:18:45.760
And like, how do you create, like they
showed it in, improvised hologram form

00:18:45.940 --> 00:18:51.175
of sort of like, you know, spontaneously
at the same time exploding and traveling

00:18:51.180 --> 00:18:52.915
through warp or whatever, go through warp.

00:18:52.959 --> 00:18:56.589
But to have like just these streams of
lights and these sprinkles throughout

00:18:56.619 --> 00:19:01.153
in this constant flow out into
infinity was yeah was really divine.

00:19:01.153 --> 00:19:02.203
And they outdid themselves.

00:19:02.233 --> 00:19:05.603
Like we've been talking about the
intergalactic vistas that we have

00:19:05.603 --> 00:19:10.223
seen on these animated shows that
have really stepped things up.

00:19:10.223 --> 00:19:14.056
So the live action shows have got a lot
to, and I dunno if they'll ever be able

00:19:14.056 --> 00:19:17.892
to actually match what has been created
on Lower Deck and definitely Prodigy.

00:19:19.142 --> 00:19:23.632
Kevin: Getting to see San Francisco
again in, in an animated form, and

00:19:23.632 --> 00:19:27.837
Starfleet Command was an unexpected
treat and we spend a good amount

00:19:27.837 --> 00:19:29.197
of time looking around there.

00:19:29.197 --> 00:19:32.887
There's a great website that
I'll link to in the show notes.

00:19:32.887 --> 00:19:37.486
It has been just keeping track of
the glimpses of future San Francisco

00:19:37.491 --> 00:19:41.686
and Starfleet Command that we've seen
over the movies and the TV shows and

00:19:41.686 --> 00:19:43.216
like comparing them to each other.

00:19:43.216 --> 00:19:45.706
And where exactly is Starfleet Command?

00:19:45.706 --> 00:19:48.916
Is it on the north side of the
Golden Gate Bridge or the south side?

00:19:49.186 --> 00:19:51.144
It and is it to the east or to the west?

00:19:51.149 --> 00:19:56.244
Like where in present day does
Starfleet command exist in the future?

00:19:56.404 --> 00:19:58.674
Rob: Gotta be some
tours in  San Francisco.

00:19:59.034 --> 00:20:01.794
There's gotta be some Star Trek tours
where people take them down to the

00:20:01.794 --> 00:20:03.954
bay and go, this is where this is.

00:20:03.959 --> 00:20:05.334
There has to be, if there isn't,

00:20:05.404 --> 00:20:08.944
Kevin: But the, yeah, but it's a
great article, like comparing in

00:20:08.944 --> 00:20:11.884
different iterations, the same
buildings to each other, and is

00:20:11.889 --> 00:20:13.474
this the same building or is it not?

00:20:13.474 --> 00:20:17.584
Like it has got that full on,
excessively nerdy look at this

00:20:17.584 --> 00:20:19.549
stuff that I really appreciate.

00:20:19.574 --> 00:20:24.171
And as far as I can tell they,
Prodigy here has done a great job

00:20:24.171 --> 00:20:28.951
of matching what we've seen before
uh, of, of Starfleet Command.

00:20:28.956 --> 00:20:33.331
You get the Golden Gate Bridge covered
in solar panels and Starfleet command

00:20:33.331 --> 00:20:37.246
is exactly where it should be at
the northeast end of it, which is

00:20:37.246 --> 00:20:39.256
the most common place for it to be.

00:20:39.316 --> 00:20:39.844
And yeah.

00:20:40.164 --> 00:20:43.854
Rob: Would I be correct in saying like
in all the films though, the one that

00:20:43.859 --> 00:20:48.400
spends probably the most time in San
Francisco is probably the reboots?

00:20:48.400 --> 00:20:50.699
Cuz I know you see a bit of
it in The Motion Picture.

00:20:50.909 --> 00:20:55.411
There's a little bit of it in two and
three and four a bit, especially yeah,

00:20:55.411 --> 00:20:57.811
the Genesis Trilogy as I'm calling it now.

00:20:58.411 --> 00:21:01.750
Uh, But yeah the, would I say
would the Pine films be the one

00:21:01.750 --> 00:21:04.690
where you see most of it, cuz
they're actually at the Academy.

00:21:05.234 --> 00:21:10.925
Kevin: Into Darkness has the actual
like sky ship chase with Khan and

00:21:10.925 --> 00:21:14.889
Spock fighting it out on top of
the ship that's hurtling through

00:21:14.949 --> 00:21:16.629
the streets of San Francisco.

00:21:16.629 --> 00:21:19.239
So that's a pretty extensive tour there.

00:21:19.239 --> 00:21:23.780
But I don't know about you, I,
first of all, alternate timeline.

00:21:23.780 --> 00:21:25.190
Alternate San Francisco.

00:21:25.220 --> 00:21:26.420
It doesn't really matter, right?

00:21:26.420 --> 00:21:26.660
Doesn't

00:21:26.820 --> 00:21:28.060
Rob: That's the multiverse.

00:21:28.120 --> 00:21:28.930
Nothing matters.

00:21:29.380 --> 00:21:29.590
Yeah.

00:21:29.590 --> 00:21:29.860
If you

00:21:29.960 --> 00:21:34.861
Kevin: But also those films as
beautiful as they are, my memory of

00:21:34.861 --> 00:21:40.261
them is that it's a lot of CG eye
candy that does not necessarily ground

00:21:40.266 --> 00:21:44.101
you in any place, any sense of place.

00:21:44.161 --> 00:21:45.331
Maybe I need to go back and look.

00:21:45.331 --> 00:21:46.471
Give them another shot.

00:21:46.536 --> 00:21:47.196
Rob: do it to yourself.

00:21:47.201 --> 00:21:48.006
Don't do it to yourself.

00:21:48.006 --> 00:21:49.056
Why would you do that to yourself?

00:21:49.296 --> 00:21:51.486
You used the word beautiful to
describe them, aren't they going?

00:21:51.486 --> 00:21:52.236
Why would you say that?

00:21:52.266 --> 00:21:53.496
Why would you do that to yourself?

00:21:53.556 --> 00:21:56.662
Look, there's no wrong way of being
a fan, sometimes there's a wrong way

00:21:56.662 --> 00:22:00.382
of doing a reinterpretation of Khan,
and they did that in Into Darkness.

00:22:00.767 --> 00:22:01.187
Kevin: Look.

00:22:01.187 --> 00:22:05.087
Speaking of the Genesis trilogy,
having the Protostar crew crash in

00:22:05.087 --> 00:22:08.537
the bay below the Golden Great Bridge
and get rescued from the water.

00:22:08.651 --> 00:22:11.508
What a nice echo of the
end of Star Trek IV.

00:22:11.603 --> 00:22:11.933
Rob: Oh, look.

00:22:12.023 --> 00:22:15.533
And if the ancestors of George and
Gracie came up and gave him a bit of

00:22:15.533 --> 00:22:17.543
a high five, I would've loved that.

00:22:17.543 --> 00:22:17.861
But.

00:22:17.861 --> 00:22:18.840
That's just me personally.

00:22:18.934 --> 00:22:22.804
So after the trial and a wonderful,
inspiring speech from Janeway about what

00:22:22.804 --> 00:22:27.419
it is to be Starfleet and a beautiful
line about, there are 150 species

00:22:27.424 --> 00:22:32.294
members in the Federation and Dal has
26 of them within him, so he is more

00:22:32.294 --> 00:22:34.004
Starfleet than pretty much all of us.

00:22:34.194 --> 00:22:35.114
I'm there going great.

00:22:35.144 --> 00:22:35.474
Okay.

00:22:35.474 --> 00:22:39.096
Can Janeway go back in time and say
that about, in Strange New Worlds

00:22:39.096 --> 00:22:40.716
as well and all that issue will be

00:22:40.836 --> 00:22:44.641
Kevin: It stood out to me in that
speech that she used the words our

00:22:44.641 --> 00:22:47.881
alliance several times in this speech.

00:22:48.391 --> 00:22:52.752
And it's it's an interesting framing
of Starfleet and the Federation.

00:22:52.782 --> 00:22:55.444
There's always been that, that
strange duality of what is

00:22:55.444 --> 00:22:57.124
Starfleet, what is the Federation.

00:22:57.124 --> 00:22:59.284
Like, the Federation is
the alliance of planets.

00:22:59.464 --> 00:23:02.644
Starfleet is the Navy for that alliance.

00:23:02.746 --> 00:23:05.548
But the idea that it is an alliance.

00:23:06.268 --> 00:23:09.898
That word to me, strikes me
as particularly militaristic.

00:23:10.348 --> 00:23:15.158
And I don't know if it was Janeway playing
to the military brass and saying, remember

00:23:15.158 --> 00:23:17.498
the alliance and value the alliance.

00:23:17.528 --> 00:23:22.311
But that word to me just it rang like a
bell a couple of times that she said it,

00:23:22.341 --> 00:23:25.954
that it wasn't, it isn't a community.

00:23:25.984 --> 00:23:28.029
It isn't a Federation.

00:23:28.029 --> 00:23:32.859
It is an alliance which has this military
connotation that I just found interesting.

00:23:32.908 --> 00:23:36.573
Rob: Yeah, as we've talked about before,
ever since Star Trek II, where Nicholas

00:23:36.573 --> 00:23:41.268
Meyer pretty much made Hornblower in
space, which was so against Roddenberry's

00:23:41.268 --> 00:23:46.968
idea of the original Federation, there
has been this pull to what is the original

00:23:46.998 --> 00:23:52.068
Roddenberry concept and what is this
militaristic advancement of Star Trek

00:23:52.068 --> 00:23:54.498
through other creative interpretive eyes.

00:23:54.558 --> 00:23:57.738
And especially if you're looking at
it from a canonical point of view,

00:23:57.738 --> 00:24:02.269
but also creative point of view,
this is a post Dominion war where

00:24:02.269 --> 00:24:07.909
the Starfleet is, and the Federation
is in its biggest conflict in over a

00:24:07.909 --> 00:24:11.072
century, if not its entire existence.

00:24:11.102 --> 00:24:17.281
So that type of militaristic jargon and
lingo has stayed within after all that

00:24:17.281 --> 00:24:19.411
might be hard to break outta the system.

00:24:19.411 --> 00:24:23.790
And we see with Picard later on,
it's definitely seems still more

00:24:23.790 --> 00:24:27.091
quite militaristic as opposed to
that we're a group of explorers

00:24:27.096 --> 00:24:30.511
getting together and let's find out
what's awesome about the universe.

00:24:31.781 --> 00:24:35.419
Kevin: Some great teases about
what we can expect in the future

00:24:35.419 --> 00:24:37.069
of Prodigy here at the end.

00:24:37.113 --> 00:24:42.366
The idea that they have created, they
have green lit, a Protostar class of ship,

00:24:42.396 --> 00:24:44.526
but that's not the one we're going on.

00:24:44.916 --> 00:24:49.176
Janeway says I have a bigger plan for
us, her and her trainee crew, which

00:24:49.193 --> 00:24:54.816
for the, this is another one of those
implausible situations to me that I'm

00:24:54.821 --> 00:24:58.776
happy to go with because of the strength
of the story and the characters.

00:24:58.776 --> 00:25:05.730
But the idea that a rear admiral would be
in, given a ship to train five trainees

00:25:05.819 --> 00:25:10.740
sounds like an implausible use of
resources for Starfleet, let's just say.

00:25:10.900 --> 00:25:11.540
Rob: So what?

00:25:11.990 --> 00:25:12.410
Look, cause I

00:25:12.480 --> 00:25:15.910
Kevin: You're not allowed into the
classroom, but we'll put you on a ship.

00:25:15.937 --> 00:25:16.387
Rob: That's the thing.

00:25:16.480 --> 00:25:20.200
Are they gonna be on the ship with
the rest of the crew or is it just

00:25:20.200 --> 00:25:24.404
gonna be like a copy of season one
where it's just now real Janeway

00:25:24.404 --> 00:25:27.014
with a gray streak in her hair with,

00:25:27.104 --> 00:25:28.719
Kevin: looking forward
to seeing what it is.

00:25:28.724 --> 00:25:30.729
I'm not sure they've figured
it out themselves either.

00:25:30.734 --> 00:25:31.599
I think they need to work

00:25:31.604 --> 00:25:35.204
Rob: cuz we've gotta bring back Jason
Alexander's sassy for no reason, but

00:25:35.204 --> 00:25:38.862
then calms down, but then it becomes
like a bitchy, almost racist character.

00:25:38.886 --> 00:25:41.498
And we need to bring the
number one who I really liked.

00:25:41.558 --> 00:25:43.382
I like the number one, the Andorian.

00:25:43.442 --> 00:25:44.372
He was really good.

00:25:44.372 --> 00:25:47.622
He had that like distinguished
Sherlock Holmesy nose and

00:25:47.622 --> 00:25:48.942
Kevin: He was the straight man.

00:25:48.942 --> 00:25:54.111
It was, it is the the thankless
task o of being the professional

00:25:54.111 --> 00:25:57.317
on the bridge who's working to
follow the orders and get the job

00:25:57.607 --> 00:26:00.457
Rob: Doesn't get all the flashes and
doesn't get all the bells and whistles.

00:26:00.457 --> 00:26:04.433
He just, just comes in, does his
work, punches the clock, and and walks

00:26:04.433 --> 00:26:07.493
away with my MVP oh he's not my MVP.

00:26:07.673 --> 00:26:08.866
I dunno why I was even saying that.

00:26:08.948 --> 00:26:13.568
Kevin: I think what we're gonna see is
a Voyager A, there is a tease of that.

00:26:13.628 --> 00:26:17.648
One of the, one of the shuttles that
is coming to rescue them over the bay

00:26:17.858 --> 00:26:25.448
has the registry number, NCC-74656-A,
on it, which means Voyager A.

00:26:25.718 --> 00:26:26.978
That's where I think we're going in

00:26:27.283 --> 00:26:28.443
Rob: Yeah, I was gonna get to that.

00:26:28.443 --> 00:26:30.663
I was thinking, yeah, they've
gotta be getting on a Voyager.

00:26:30.693 --> 00:26:34.585
There's gotta be, if they're not doing the
Protostar, then it's gotta be a Voyager.

00:26:34.603 --> 00:26:36.353
So we say goodbye to Gwyn.

00:26:36.533 --> 00:26:38.949
And they have given her the name.

00:26:39.099 --> 00:26:43.696
We've had the Diviner, we've
had the Vindicator, we had the

00:26:43.724 --> 00:26:47.722
we had the incubator, we had
the no, we have the Unifier.

00:26:47.752 --> 00:26:49.372
What a wonderful one.

00:26:49.372 --> 00:26:50.872
That was a beautiful little moment.

00:26:50.914 --> 00:26:51.514
I, yeah.

00:26:51.538 --> 00:26:51.972
I thought that

00:26:52.057 --> 00:26:55.477
Kevin: forward to, I hope they keep
her in it cuz I think they could

00:26:55.477 --> 00:26:59.047
easily write her out at this point
and say, look, she goes off on that

00:26:59.047 --> 00:27:01.267
mission and hopefully all goes well.

00:27:01.297 --> 00:27:04.639
We'll maybe hear a line later
that says she, they made first

00:27:04.639 --> 00:27:06.229
contact and it's going better.

00:27:07.099 --> 00:27:09.919
They could go that way with it or
they could keep her in as like a

00:27:09.919 --> 00:27:11.823
standing B plot for this series.

00:27:11.823 --> 00:27:12.633
And I hope they do.

00:27:12.663 --> 00:27:14.203
I hope we get to follow Gwyndala.

00:27:14.228 --> 00:27:14.498
Rob: Look.

00:27:14.498 --> 00:27:17.704
Yeah I think that's where the, they'd
be stupid not to do that if they've,

00:27:17.884 --> 00:27:22.830
if it's split in two parts of, the, A
plot is finding Chakotay, or in many

00:27:22.830 --> 00:27:27.889
ways the B plot will be Chakotay, and
the A plot will be how Solums do the

00:27:28.032 --> 00:27:31.642
Kevin: but the whole crew is going
with Janeway to find Chakotay.

00:27:31.932 --> 00:27:33.582
feel like that's gotta be the A plot.

00:27:33.672 --> 00:27:34.812
I don't know what they're gonna do.

00:27:35.022 --> 00:27:40.152
It's very weird to me that Gwyn is going
off to try and make first contact go

00:27:40.157 --> 00:27:47.172
better, to change the future that Chakotay
is stuck in, that Janeway is going to

00:27:47.172 --> 00:27:49.562
try and find Chakotay in the bad future.

00:27:49.639 --> 00:27:50.809
It's mind bending.

00:27:50.856 --> 00:27:55.039
If Gwyn succeeds, does the future
that Chakotay's stuck in change?

00:27:55.129 --> 00:27:55.339
I don't

00:27:55.569 --> 00:27:59.419
Rob: look, I like people taking risks,
but they are taking a big swing.

00:28:00.179 --> 00:28:03.204
The, the Prodigy writers and
directors and the production team,

00:28:03.204 --> 00:28:06.264
they're going okay that like they
have done well with season one.

00:28:06.264 --> 00:28:07.584
They're going, let's go all out.

00:28:07.584 --> 00:28:10.884
We've got parallel dimensions, we've
got time travel, which is always a

00:28:10.884 --> 00:28:14.374
bitch of a thing to write, if you
ask the, the dean from Community.

00:28:14.429 --> 00:28:19.289
Kevin: When they said that the Prodigy's
explosion had created a temporal rift

00:28:19.379 --> 00:28:23.365
and that they got a signal from Chakotay
out of there, I kind of leaned back and

00:28:23.365 --> 00:28:27.610
crossed my arms and went, okay, that's
the pill I'm being asked to swallow here.

00:28:27.610 --> 00:28:30.838
That's the thing that makes the
least sense of this entire episode.

00:28:30.958 --> 00:28:34.198
The episode would've been better
if not for that, but they wanted

00:28:34.198 --> 00:28:36.628
that to set up their season two, so

00:28:36.638 --> 00:28:40.861
Rob: They have, but they've been
constantly pushing Chakotay's story back

00:28:40.866 --> 00:28:45.808
and back and god bless Rob, Robert Beltram
coming back to do the, that's another

00:28:45.808 --> 00:28:49.978
thankless role of coming in, doing his
voice and then getting his voice echoed

00:28:49.983 --> 00:28:52.048
and repeated and you say, oh, cool.

00:28:52.048 --> 00:28:55.348
I'm gonna be this cool funky
A plot and this animated Star

00:28:55.348 --> 00:28:56.878
Trek, ah, no, you're B plot.

00:28:56.938 --> 00:28:57.578
Now you C.

00:28:57.778 --> 00:28:58.468
There you're D.

00:28:58.528 --> 00:29:00.388
Or you might be a in season two.

00:29:00.748 --> 00:29:02.008
Oh, they're cha, they're changing

00:29:02.018 --> 00:29:02.678
Kevin: I'll be hap.

00:29:02.678 --> 00:29:03.908
I'll be happy to see him back.

00:29:03.908 --> 00:29:04.508
I hope.

00:29:04.538 --> 00:29:08.168
I hope we get a grumpier,
grittier Chakotay when we finally

00:29:08.428 --> 00:29:12.744
Rob: Oh, he's gotta have he's gotta
have a, full on, Gandalf beard and

00:29:12.744 --> 00:29:14.536
surviving out there in the wilds.

00:29:14.541 --> 00:29:19.816
He's gonna have, because he is, as I've
spoken before, he is the dawg of Voyager.

00:29:19.816 --> 00:29:22.036
So he's gonna have his own tribe set up.

00:29:22.276 --> 00:29:24.766
I think there's gonna be a
tent and then pulls apart.

00:29:24.766 --> 00:29:28.696
He's got a haram of nineties women, like
the Ferengi from a couple of episodes

00:29:28.696 --> 00:29:30.226
ago when they're in the Delta quadrant.

00:29:30.586 --> 00:29:32.866
Or maybe that's just my
mind playing tricks on me.

00:29:32.866 --> 00:29:32.986
I

00:29:33.338 --> 00:29:35.948
Kevin: What did you think
of the kiss or the kisses?

00:29:36.133 --> 00:29:36.613
Rob: we got two

00:29:36.728 --> 00:29:39.619
Kevin: there was a, there was
an ill-advised kiss in part one,

00:29:39.619 --> 00:29:43.064
and then  the more consensual
version in part two  I don't know.

00:29:43.064 --> 00:29:47.084
My, my partner who was watching the,
on the sofa next to me, she groaned

00:29:47.148 --> 00:29:50.208
especially she groaned at the first
kiss and then groaned again at the

00:29:50.208 --> 00:29:54.797
second kiss, and she's come on, can we
ever not have a romantic subplot here?

00:29:55.637 --> 00:29:56.297
They're kids.

00:29:56.357 --> 00:29:58.007
They're supposed to be kids.

00:29:58.792 --> 00:30:02.933
Rob: And if you do not remember
who you wanted to kiss and who you

00:30:03.113 --> 00:30:06.542
wanted to go steady with, and who
you wanted to, all that type of stuff

00:30:06.542 --> 00:30:08.949
played a massive part of being a kid.

00:30:09.004 --> 00:30:13.118
And I think it was handled it was, I
found it quite adorable how as soon as

00:30:13.118 --> 00:30:15.188
it happened, everyone was, what the hell?

00:30:15.188 --> 00:30:15.998
What I'm trying to tell you.

00:30:15.998 --> 00:30:16.598
This what?

00:30:16.688 --> 00:30:17.138
Oh, I'm sorry.

00:30:17.143 --> 00:30:17.408
I'm sorry.

00:30:17.438 --> 00:30:17.648
What?

00:30:17.648 --> 00:30:18.416
What who what?

00:30:18.416 --> 00:30:18.956
Hey, who?

00:30:18.956 --> 00:30:19.556
Haha.

00:30:19.886 --> 00:30:23.040
It was like, It's like
a 80 sitcom magnified.

00:30:23.058 --> 00:30:28.142
But I thought it was a very cute,
dignified final goodbye with a touch.

00:30:28.562 --> 00:30:30.212
And it's hard to do an animation.

00:30:30.212 --> 00:30:34.061
It's hard to do any type of, I feel
as if I'm watching an AI program

00:30:34.162 --> 00:30:35.662
trying to become self-aware.

00:30:35.812 --> 00:30:39.469
But then the Simpsons episode, where they
are in the future and then one and the

00:30:39.469 --> 00:30:43.340
librarian turns to someone who goes first,
they love each other, then they hate each

00:30:43.340 --> 00:30:44.930
other, and now they love each other again.

00:30:44.935 --> 00:30:45.620
I don't get it.

00:30:45.625 --> 00:30:47.450
And the person goes, that's
because you're a robot.

00:30:47.570 --> 00:30:50.260
And then it cries and then
head blows up and it melts.

00:30:50.990 --> 00:30:53.960
So that's what I feel about it's
gonna happen whenever there's

00:30:54.050 --> 00:30:55.430
animated characters kissing.

00:30:55.460 --> 00:30:55.820
I don't know.

00:30:55.820 --> 00:30:56.480
That's just me.

00:30:57.080 --> 00:31:01.355
So, With all that backstory, we get
to the point of I thought it was okay.

00:31:01.415 --> 00:31:02.009
It was all right.

00:31:02.021 --> 00:31:03.126
It wasn't too cringey.

00:31:03.751 --> 00:31:06.961
Kevin: Yeah, I think it maybe only
works because it was a farewell.

00:31:06.961 --> 00:31:08.581
They are going their separate ways.

00:31:08.622 --> 00:31:13.816
If season two became the story of
the couple that is Gwyn and Dal, I'm

00:31:13.821 --> 00:31:16.546
not sure we'd be watching the same TV

00:31:16.611 --> 00:31:20.209
Rob: Yeah, let's put a pin in, let's
put a pin in that and let's, let's

00:31:20.214 --> 00:31:25.312
focus on exploration, discovery,
saving the dawg and and saving Gwyn's

00:31:25.312 --> 00:31:30.976
planet because it, it was a truly
tragic, end of a first contact story.

00:31:31.486 --> 00:31:33.866
And I think we're gonna
see more of that race.

00:31:33.884 --> 00:31:38.068
I think that's why I was pushing that
to be the, A plot more is because

00:31:38.338 --> 00:31:43.408
they've spent so much time creating
this whole new race and the backstory

00:31:43.508 --> 00:31:46.530
of its destruction would be, yeah.

00:31:46.558 --> 00:31:49.418
I would be quite surprised if they push
that further back and go, no, this is

00:31:49.423 --> 00:31:51.188
what makes us unique to everywhere else.

00:31:51.188 --> 00:31:53.348
We don't have this species
anywhere else in the Star

00:31:53.353 --> 00:31:55.418
Trek, so let's develop it more.

00:31:55.521 --> 00:31:58.191
Kevin: Zero gets a new body
look, looks like it's designed by

00:31:58.496 --> 00:31:59.546
Rob: It's very Apple.

00:31:59.546 --> 00:32:03.576
It was very, it was, look, it's the iZero.

00:32:03.576 --> 00:32:04.781
Kevin: That's right, the iZero.

00:32:04.841 --> 00:32:07.794
I'm sure it'll be the hot new
toy when season two comes out.

00:32:07.803 --> 00:32:12.003
Rok Tahk chooses a field of science
with Xenobiology, which is pretty

00:32:12.098 --> 00:32:12.488
Rob: Yeah.

00:32:12.516 --> 00:32:13.028
We, yeah.

00:32:13.028 --> 00:32:16.671
That's the thing, like Rok Tahk is
doing so well with all the sciences

00:32:16.851 --> 00:32:19.542
it seems a little bit why should she

00:32:19.672 --> 00:32:20.332
Kevin: Why choose?

00:32:20.332 --> 00:32:21.202
Why not everything?

00:32:21.432 --> 00:32:21.582
Rob: Yeah.

00:32:21.582 --> 00:32:23.529
If you can do everything, you do it.

00:32:23.529 --> 00:32:27.582
And you've been doing really well, like
managing five or six different sciences.

00:32:27.610 --> 00:32:31.420
And for me, I was a bit, oh, okay, so
you're just going to, animals is great.

00:32:31.420 --> 00:32:33.940
Animals are great species from
different, every, that's awesome.

00:32:33.940 --> 00:32:35.050
But they're going, oh, okay.

00:32:35.050 --> 00:32:35.350
That's,

00:32:35.425 --> 00:32:39.725
Kevin: Jankom seems to be like
settling into engineering classes

00:32:39.725 --> 00:32:42.575
and learning not to use the hammer,
but to use the drill now and

00:32:42.686 --> 00:32:45.743
Rob: And it fits in well, because
that's where, that's where you get your

00:32:45.743 --> 00:32:49.993
O'Briens and your Scotty's and even
Torres, B'Elanna in some ways, that,

00:32:49.993 --> 00:32:52.965
the salt of the earth type of, ah,
let's sort this out while everyone else

00:32:52.965 --> 00:32:54.928
is being highbrow and stuff like that.

00:32:54.958 --> 00:32:58.325
Jankom's perfectly fit, suited
for the for the orange jumpsuit.

00:32:59.100 --> 00:33:00.000
Kevin: Yeah, for sure.

00:33:00.038 --> 00:33:03.381
I'm not sure I caught
an end for Murf in this.

00:33:03.381 --> 00:33:05.835
Rob: Murf, Murf's just in Starfleet.

00:33:06.280 --> 00:33:06.640
Kevin: Just in

00:33:07.005 --> 00:33:08.115
Rob: Murf just showed up.

00:33:08.650 --> 00:33:12.610
Kevin: Look very early in
Supernova part II, there is a shot.

00:33:12.640 --> 00:33:15.010
People walk onto the bridge and Murf.

00:33:15.077 --> 00:33:18.881
No one comments on it, but Murf is
sitting in the captain's chair and

00:33:18.886 --> 00:33:20.231
I was like, I don't know about that.

00:33:20.256 --> 00:33:21.351
That seems like a bad

00:33:21.576 --> 00:33:22.166
Rob: Yeah, we

00:33:22.281 --> 00:33:25.011
Kevin: There are a lot of high
stakes buttons on that Captain's

00:33:25.286 --> 00:33:29.900
Rob: We did have Murf jump up and
give the raspberry, then also slap

00:33:29.900 --> 00:33:32.350
their behind in front of Drednok.

00:33:32.600 --> 00:33:36.950
So not only just a showing the
backside, like that was a full

00:33:36.955 --> 00:33:39.115
on multiple slap a slap that

00:33:39.194 --> 00:33:42.274
Kevin: I did not feel bad for Murf
when he got frozen to the wall.

00:33:42.274 --> 00:33:43.534
I said, serves you right.

00:33:43.599 --> 00:33:44.640
Rob: You know what Murf, yeah.

00:33:44.730 --> 00:33:45.390
Grow up a bit.

00:33:45.390 --> 00:33:45.750
Come on.

00:33:48.715 --> 00:33:52.545
Kevin: All right well, anything else
you wanna call out in in Supernova?

00:33:52.570 --> 00:33:55.600
Rob: No, like I said, I like how they
spent that time, the second half of the

00:33:55.600 --> 00:34:00.130
episode focusing on them settling in and
getting that preparation for season two.

00:34:00.130 --> 00:34:03.430
It made it very much feel like we
didn't have to rush our way through.

00:34:03.430 --> 00:34:07.780
We took our time and I appreciated
that to, to get them that feel and

00:34:08.050 --> 00:34:10.703
get used to them within Starfleet.

00:34:10.703 --> 00:34:13.404
But like I said, I'm gonna be
very interested to see whether it

00:34:13.409 --> 00:34:17.164
moves forward or whether it just
becomes just another Star Trek show.

00:34:17.164 --> 00:34:21.502
Because there was something unique
about, this race of all aliens, which

00:34:21.502 --> 00:34:23.512
has never been done on Star Trek before.

00:34:23.600 --> 00:34:26.476
Not a part of the Federation,
but following those ideals.

00:34:26.506 --> 00:34:28.544
Obviously they couldn't keep
that up forever and ever.

00:34:28.874 --> 00:34:35.582
But how they can advance, what makes
Prodigy unique without just blending

00:34:35.582 --> 00:34:38.342
it into another Star Trek show.

00:34:38.425 --> 00:34:41.665
Kevin: So the thing we called out in
Supernova that we wanted to explore in

00:34:41.670 --> 00:34:47.395
Star Trek history was the sacrifice of
the Protostar, the decision to scuttle

00:34:47.395 --> 00:34:51.860
a ship in order to save the crew
or save the day as the case may be.

00:34:52.180 --> 00:34:55.810
Definitely a big moment every time
it happens, and it hasn't happened

00:34:55.810 --> 00:34:58.030
that often in Star Trek history.

00:34:58.074 --> 00:35:02.168
Rob: It ha it has happened quite a lot
in the the Christopher Pine versions.

00:35:02.168 --> 00:35:05.778
It's either the Enterprise blowing
up or being destroyed or being ripped

00:35:05.778 --> 00:35:07.638
apart, or being have to self-destruct.

00:35:07.968 --> 00:35:09.853
I think it's happened in all three.

00:35:09.923 --> 00:35:13.417
I, yeah it was destroyed at the end
of the first one and it was destroyed

00:35:13.417 --> 00:35:15.157
again at the end of the second one.

00:35:15.217 --> 00:35:19.237
And it was almost destroyed
on the third one and it was

00:35:19.237 --> 00:35:22.207
ravaged to almost 80% destroyed.

00:35:22.207 --> 00:35:24.517
But they still ambled
it back to Starfleet.

00:35:24.517 --> 00:35:27.217
So I don't think we're
including any of those.

00:35:27.217 --> 00:35:27.427
Cuz

00:35:27.482 --> 00:35:28.622
Kevin: It's alternate history.

00:35:28.622 --> 00:35:28.892
Doesn't

00:35:28.957 --> 00:35:29.377
Rob: doesn't matter.

00:35:29.382 --> 00:35:30.757
It's, it was the Kelvin line.

00:35:30.757 --> 00:35:31.207
The Kelvin

00:35:31.412 --> 00:35:31.952
Kevin: Yeah, that's right.

00:35:31.957 --> 00:35:32.897
Yeah, that's right.

00:35:32.927 --> 00:35:36.137
Rob: So yeah, none of those make any
emotional impact cuz if you keep on

00:35:36.137 --> 00:35:38.447
doing it, you lose the emotional impact.

00:35:38.742 --> 00:35:41.322
Kevin: Okay, so let's, yeah,
let's apply that filter.

00:35:41.322 --> 00:35:44.019
Emotionally impactful sacrifices of

00:35:44.354 --> 00:35:44.954
Rob: Definitely.

00:35:44.984 --> 00:35:45.594
Definitely.

00:35:45.657 --> 00:35:46.677
Kevin: Do you wanna pick a first one?

00:35:46.697 --> 00:35:46.937
Rob: I'll pick.

00:35:47.127 --> 00:35:47.487
Okay.

00:35:47.487 --> 00:35:47.887
Okay.

00:35:47.892 --> 00:35:48.617
I'm coming back to it.

00:35:48.617 --> 00:35:50.717
I come back to it all
the time and I dunno why.

00:35:50.717 --> 00:35:54.827
It's one that I don't watch, and this is
one of the another reasons why I don't

00:35:54.827 --> 00:35:59.132
watch it anymore because it ripped out my
heart when it killed Da when they killed

00:35:59.137 --> 00:36:00.992
David and then it ripped out my heart.

00:36:00.992 --> 00:36:05.707
Cuz this is the first time ever, this
iconic vision as a young man when they

00:36:05.947 --> 00:36:10.387
destroyed the Enterprise for me, the
first time in Star Trek III The Search for

00:36:10.387 --> 00:36:14.887
Spock, when they destroyed the Enterprise,
when Kirk goes, what have I done?

00:36:15.007 --> 00:36:17.287
I went, yeah, what the hell have you done?

00:36:18.097 --> 00:36:20.827
That I didn't even hear McCoy
going, what you had to do, blah.

00:36:20.827 --> 00:36:21.247
Bugger that.

00:36:21.337 --> 00:36:21.877
Okay.

00:36:22.117 --> 00:36:25.867
That was really like the heartache
of it, of having to blow up the

00:36:25.867 --> 00:36:27.817
Enterprise with the Klingons on board.

00:36:27.907 --> 00:36:31.168
And it's also, it's, yeah
it's a very much a Kirk move.

00:36:31.288 --> 00:36:34.918
Sure, I'm gonna blow up the ship, but I'm
gonna take a lot of Klingons with them.

00:36:35.473 --> 00:36:36.283
Kevin: That's right.

00:36:36.283 --> 00:36:36.763
Yeah.

00:36:36.983 --> 00:36:43.063
The ugh, the shot where the entire
surface of the saucer section bursts,

00:36:43.638 --> 00:36:44.118
Rob: Just lifts

00:36:44.173 --> 00:36:47.440
Kevin: and it just lifts
off and flies off in pieces.

00:36:47.482 --> 00:36:48.908
So iconic.

00:36:48.928 --> 00:36:53.711
I am amazed and also not surprised
that they couldn't resist putting

00:36:53.711 --> 00:36:55.091
it in the trailer to the movie.

00:36:55.121 --> 00:36:58.781
Like you went to Star Trek III knowing
you were going to see that moment

00:36:58.781 --> 00:37:00.371
because it was in all the trailers.

00:37:00.641 --> 00:37:03.821
But when you make something that,
that looks that amazing, you

00:37:03.821 --> 00:37:04.991
kind of have to put it in the

00:37:05.416 --> 00:37:09.589
Rob: And it's a tense moment as well
because they're the, they're teleporting

00:37:09.589 --> 00:37:13.099
on and the boys are teleporting off.

00:37:13.174 --> 00:37:16.998
You've got, Christopher Lloyd doing
incredible stuff of getting out, get

00:37:16.998 --> 00:37:19.398
out, get outta there, and he's wonderful

00:37:19.843 --> 00:37:20.533
Kevin: Oh, amazing.

00:37:20.808 --> 00:37:21.588
Rob: performance.

00:37:21.708 --> 00:37:25.158
John Larroquette is one of the
them, I think, and he gets blown

00:37:25.158 --> 00:37:27.220
up on the ship and also that.

00:37:27.580 --> 00:37:29.410
That shot of perspective.

00:37:29.410 --> 00:37:32.830
So we've got it from front up and
you see the front dish section just

00:37:33.250 --> 00:37:35.380
implode up and it's incredible.

00:37:35.560 --> 00:37:39.697
But then you have the shot of them
from the planet of Genesis looking

00:37:39.697 --> 00:37:41.857
up and you see that trail of fire.

00:37:42.277 --> 00:37:43.927
It's such a small, yeah.

00:37:44.437 --> 00:37:44.917
Beautiful.

00:37:45.157 --> 00:37:45.607
Beautiful.

00:37:45.922 --> 00:37:48.242
Kevin: it makes it feel so tangible.

00:37:48.242 --> 00:37:51.703
Like how many ship explosions have we
seen that it's just like a superimposed

00:37:51.708 --> 00:37:54.583
fireball as the ship like fades out.

00:37:54.853 --> 00:37:55.813
This was not that.

00:37:55.818 --> 00:37:58.573
This was, it was a storyboarded.

00:37:58.813 --> 00:38:01.183
There are pieces to this destruction.

00:38:01.213 --> 00:38:04.332
It feels yeah, very physical.

00:38:04.497 --> 00:38:05.507
Rob: It, yeah, it does.

00:38:05.507 --> 00:38:06.257
It feels real.

00:38:06.257 --> 00:38:07.397
And we talked about it before.

00:38:07.397 --> 00:38:13.787
It's another one of those sacrifices
that Kirk put on the table so

00:38:13.787 --> 00:38:15.527
that he could get his friend back.

00:38:15.527 --> 00:38:20.177
So that resurrection of Spock is
earned, but by the amount of loss.

00:38:20.237 --> 00:38:24.032
And so for me, the first time
ever I saw the Enterprise,

00:38:24.032 --> 00:38:25.412
I'm going, this is their ship.

00:38:25.532 --> 00:38:30.931
And so much so it's gone that we don't get
it again for, pretty much an entire movie.

00:38:31.231 --> 00:38:33.524
So it's an incredible, powerful moment.

00:38:33.524 --> 00:38:38.530
As for young Rob watching it, when I was
like about 10, 11, it was heartbreaking

00:38:38.530 --> 00:38:41.656
to go, I'm there going well okay, so not

00:38:41.921 --> 00:38:42.731
Kevin: What does it mean?

00:38:42.941 --> 00:38:43.691
Is Star Trek

00:38:44.026 --> 00:38:45.136
Rob: Does that mean we're done?

00:38:45.136 --> 00:38:47.386
Does that mean we've got Spock back now?

00:38:47.386 --> 00:38:50.967
But do they just take a
bus to each planet now?

00:38:51.117 --> 00:38:52.227
Is this what we do now?

00:38:52.257 --> 00:38:52.557
Is it

00:38:53.247 --> 00:38:55.186
Star, is it, Star bus?

00:38:55.486 --> 00:38:56.506
Anyway, busk?

00:38:57.046 --> 00:38:57.826
Anyway, so.

00:38:57.888 --> 00:39:01.828
Kevin: It was a payoff to something
that was established in the Original

00:39:01.833 --> 00:39:06.236
Series in the episode Let That Be Your
Last Battlefield, which is memorably the

00:39:06.236 --> 00:39:10.989
allegorical episode where the two halves
of the race, one has white on the right

00:39:10.989 --> 00:39:14.879
side and black on the left side, and
the other one is reversed and they're

00:39:14.879 --> 00:39:17.429
at each other's throats for that reason.

00:39:17.639 --> 00:39:22.085
In that episode the Enterprise is
commandeered and Kirk threatens to blow

00:39:22.085 --> 00:39:28.390
it up, and there is a protracted sequence
where they give all of their authorization

00:39:28.390 --> 00:39:33.670
codes and start the countdown timer
and then abort it at the last second.

00:39:33.940 --> 00:39:37.690
But in Star Trek III, they use the exact
same command codes as they did in that

00:39:38.175 --> 00:39:39.105
Rob: Nice.

00:39:39.550 --> 00:39:42.340
Kevin: and we get to see the
destruction through to completion.

00:39:42.340 --> 00:39:46.255
So it, it was a nice , payoff for
the fans as well, that moment.

00:39:46.500 --> 00:39:47.670
Rob: And how was that for you?

00:39:47.675 --> 00:39:51.180
Like I talked about Young Robert, a
10 11 seeing that for the first time.

00:39:51.420 --> 00:39:51.780
How was

00:39:51.805 --> 00:39:52.045
Kevin: Yeah.

00:39:52.045 --> 00:39:56.310
I must have been about the same
age and it hit me just as much.

00:39:56.310 --> 00:40:01.270
Like it was like this, the Enterprise
is the constant of Star Trek.

00:40:01.540 --> 00:40:08.579
And you have blown it up in such a
devastatingly comprehensive way here.

00:40:08.579 --> 00:40:12.494
Like, there is no, there's no sense
that, oh, it could come back from that,

00:40:12.554 --> 00:40:14.504
it could rebuild that it'll buff out.

00:40:14.534 --> 00:40:17.954
There is no, it breaks
up in the atmosphere.

00:40:17.969 --> 00:40:24.957
And yeah, I had that same hollow sense
of this is the irre even more than Kirk.

00:40:24.987 --> 00:40:28.947
This is the irreplaceable
character of Star Trek that

00:40:28.952 --> 00:40:30.687
has just died before our eyes.

00:40:30.802 --> 00:40:31.637
Rob: It did take it out of.

00:40:31.707 --> 00:40:34.257
Kevin: How does Star Trek go on af after

00:40:34.472 --> 00:40:35.012
Rob: Exactly.

00:40:35.042 --> 00:40:38.612
And it's really, in many ways, it's
where it really, like everyone talks

00:40:38.612 --> 00:40:42.793
about Star Trek II being when Star
Trek finally made it as a movie.

00:40:42.797 --> 00:40:45.807
Whereas Star Trek, The Motion
Picture has the great Robert Wise

00:40:45.827 --> 00:40:48.237
big sweeping widescreen shots.

00:40:48.415 --> 00:40:51.835
But Star Trek III is the really
one where it's not that episodical

00:40:51.835 --> 00:40:55.165
type thing of like ship gets
into a scrape and everyone's back

00:40:55.170 --> 00:40:56.494
together again and they're fine.

00:40:56.496 --> 00:41:00.546
Sure we had Spock die in Star Trek II, but
this is the one where they go, no, these,

00:41:01.356 --> 00:41:03.906
this is a story that just doesn't reset.

00:41:03.911 --> 00:41:07.026
So you don't go to Star Trek IV
and everything restarts again.

00:41:07.296 --> 00:41:08.496
You have lost your ship.

00:41:08.496 --> 00:41:10.174
You have lost, your son.

00:41:10.174 --> 00:41:11.614
You've lost all this stuff.

00:41:11.614 --> 00:41:15.935
And this is the point where I went,
this is not just, a Star Trek episode

00:41:15.940 --> 00:41:17.585
on television, on a big screen.

00:41:17.825 --> 00:41:20.765
This is where they're actually
putting in movie stakes.

00:41:20.795 --> 00:41:21.425
If you were.

00:41:21.930 --> 00:41:25.410
Kevin: And this is why it echoes
what we just saw in Prodigy so much

00:41:25.415 --> 00:41:27.600
for me is like Prodigy as well.

00:41:27.660 --> 00:41:31.560
We have that sense that the show is going
to be completely different in season two.

00:41:31.920 --> 00:41:36.339
When they opened the hangar and the new
Protostar class ship was sitting there, I

00:41:36.339 --> 00:41:38.439
was like, oh no, they're rolling it back.

00:41:38.469 --> 00:41:40.509
And then they said, but
we're not going on that.

00:41:40.539 --> 00:41:46.543
We're doing something different and good
on them to honor the ship by saying the

00:41:46.543 --> 00:41:51.823
line will go on, but our story is going
somewhere else because the destruction of

00:41:51.828 --> 00:41:55.603
the Protostar marks a point of no return,
where everything will be different.

00:41:55.608 --> 00:41:59.289
Rob: And it's interesting because
like you said, we were introduced into

00:41:59.289 --> 00:42:04.646
Star Trek with the opening credits
was the Enterprise, going from one

00:42:04.646 --> 00:42:08.996
side of the screen to the next, and
that has been copied with every other

00:42:09.506 --> 00:42:14.460
subsequent Star Trek show, whether
you've got The Next Generation new form

00:42:14.460 --> 00:42:18.803
of the Enterprise sweeping through,
or you've got wonderful shots of

00:42:18.803 --> 00:42:21.173
admiring the pylons on Deep Space Nine.

00:42:21.233 --> 00:42:25.473
And even with Prodigy, the opening
sequence was the Protostar.

00:42:25.803 --> 00:42:27.309
So you're there going no.

00:42:27.429 --> 00:42:32.229
Even though we've copied the exact same
style of our opening credits as we've been

00:42:32.229 --> 00:42:38.574
doing for the last 50 years, what makes
Prodigy isn't the ship, it's the cast.

00:42:38.754 --> 00:42:41.394
So I always be interesting to see
whether they carry on with that.

00:42:41.394 --> 00:42:46.794
So it's, even though its opening credits
were the Protostar front and center.

00:42:47.169 --> 00:42:51.099
It doesn't matter what ship they're on,
it's the cast that are more important.

00:42:51.099 --> 00:42:53.949
And that's never really been done before.

00:42:53.949 --> 00:42:58.209
It's so the ship has become such an
invaluable part of the body of it.

00:42:58.209 --> 00:43:02.509
Like people say about, a Woody
Allen movie or Ghostbusters, oh, New

00:43:02.509 --> 00:43:04.399
York's another character in the film.

00:43:04.669 --> 00:43:07.579
It is really is a case of the
ship has become a character.

00:43:07.579 --> 00:43:11.449
So it'll be interesting to see whether
they discard that for the first time.

00:43:12.229 --> 00:43:17.419
Am I saying that another animated show
is doing some continuity defying or

00:43:17.419 --> 00:43:20.779
canon defying shifts with the protocol?

00:43:20.855 --> 00:43:23.865
Lower Decks did with this
whole class of AI ships.

00:43:23.882 --> 00:43:24.542
We'll wait and see.

00:43:25.292 --> 00:43:25.982
Kevin: We'll wait and see.

00:43:25.982 --> 00:43:26.445
I hope not.

00:43:26.462 --> 00:43:28.892
Rob: So yeah, any other,
there weren't that many.

00:43:28.892 --> 00:43:30.212
I had a bit of a look around too.

00:43:30.242 --> 00:43:30.452
And

00:43:30.460 --> 00:43:34.792
Kevin: Look, there is nothing that,
as is as strong a match as the

00:43:34.792 --> 00:43:37.567
destruction of the Enterprise in
Star Trek III and well done to them.

00:43:37.567 --> 00:43:42.127
Like how many times has Star Trek tried
to go back to the well in one way or

00:43:42.127 --> 00:43:47.731
another of what, what worked in those
three films, especially Wrath of Khan.

00:43:47.778 --> 00:43:49.868
So often they're like,
let's make Khan again.

00:43:49.898 --> 00:43:50.108
let's

00:43:50.233 --> 00:43:54.171
Rob: again, but now with Benedict
Cumberbatch and instead of Spock

00:43:54.171 --> 00:43:56.041
dying, we'll have Kirk dying.

00:43:56.041 --> 00:43:56.590
Kevin: Yes.

00:43:57.195 --> 00:43:58.725
Rob: It's innovative and new.

00:43:58.995 --> 00:43:59.335
Anyway.

00:43:59.344 --> 00:44:03.754
Kevin: So taking an emotional beat from
that film and not exactly replaying it.

00:44:03.813 --> 00:44:08.103
But finding that kind of emotional
place again, is something that is

00:44:08.103 --> 00:44:11.595
rarely done as successfully as we
just saw in with the Protostar.

00:44:11.612 --> 00:44:15.773
I did have a few to call out,
but they are relatively small.

00:44:15.773 --> 00:44:19.864
So the first one I could think of
was in the original series episode,

00:44:19.864 --> 00:44:23.736
The Doomsday Machine the big,
like it's worth watching again.

00:44:23.736 --> 00:44:26.997
If you have not watched the original
series since it was remastered, this

00:44:26.997 --> 00:44:30.942
to me is the most visual effects
heavy episode of the original series.

00:44:30.942 --> 00:44:33.430
It's got that big sort of
what would you call it?

00:44:33.430 --> 00:44:38.415
Like a cornucopia sort of uh,
planet killer device that's

00:44:38.415 --> 00:44:40.125
got a fiery mo at the front.

00:44:40.145 --> 00:44:40.715
Rob: What season?

00:44:40.831 --> 00:44:41.861
What season is that one?

00:44:41.911 --> 00:44:45.564
Kevin: It is season two,
episode six of Star Trek, the

00:44:46.194 --> 00:44:48.475
Rob: So we are right in
the middle of prime, prime

00:44:48.520 --> 00:44:49.505
Kevin: Prime Star Trek.

00:44:49.535 --> 00:44:49.775
Yeah.

00:44:49.775 --> 00:44:50.115
Yeah.

00:44:50.115 --> 00:44:53.536
And this probably, I'm guessing,
more money than they ever spent

00:44:53.536 --> 00:44:56.476
on visual effects in any other
episode of the original series.

00:44:56.553 --> 00:45:01.799
And so the remaster, they likewise
spent a, an inordinate number

00:45:01.804 --> 00:45:07.170
of of hours remaking all of that
in CG, and it looks glorious.

00:45:07.710 --> 00:45:11.569
In that episode, this planet
killing machine, they try to stop

00:45:11.569 --> 00:45:13.189
it, the phasers bounce off of it.

00:45:13.189 --> 00:45:15.559
It's crippled starships,
they don't know what to do.

00:45:15.691 --> 00:45:22.334
It's heading for populated centers and
the solution ultimately is to ram a full

00:45:22.334 --> 00:45:27.916
ship, the USS Constellation if memory
serves, a captain pilots it down, pilots

00:45:28.136 --> 00:45:32.652
the ship down the, because the autopilot
or whatever is damaged, captain has to

00:45:32.657 --> 00:45:37.512
go down with the ship Captain pilots
it into the maw of the Doomsday device.

00:45:37.512 --> 00:45:39.502
It explodes and is neutralized.

00:45:39.572 --> 00:45:44.073
So an early example of a ship
that, it was already badly damaged.

00:45:44.283 --> 00:45:49.727
The captain was a little unhinged by that
point as well because oh, it's tragic.

00:45:49.749 --> 00:45:54.669
He had beamed his crew down to a
planet so that they would be safe,

00:45:54.699 --> 00:45:57.789
and then the planet killer ate
the planet with the crew on it.

00:45:57.789 --> 00:46:00.076
So he was a broken man after that.

00:46:00.136 --> 00:46:03.980
Um, so like this was his redemption
to be able to save the day by

00:46:03.980 --> 00:46:05.935
steering his ship into the device.

00:46:05.995 --> 00:46:06.785
It's a good one.

00:46:06.822 --> 00:46:10.102
The other ones that come to mind,
this is not so much a match.

00:46:10.132 --> 00:46:14.452
The Next Generation season three,
episode five, Yesterday's Enterprise

00:46:14.478 --> 00:46:18.782
where the Enterprise C appears into
the future, where it doesn't belong.

00:46:18.782 --> 00:46:23.985
And the entire timeline changes
because they escaped a fateful battle

00:46:23.985 --> 00:46:28.725
defending a Klingon outpost, and
then history does not remember them

00:46:28.730 --> 00:46:30.675
coming to aid of that Klingon outpost.

00:46:30.675 --> 00:46:33.564
And as a result Starfleet and
the Federation has been at war

00:46:33.569 --> 00:46:36.504
with the Klingons for 22 years
by the time of this episode.

00:46:36.504 --> 00:46:41.184
So we get to see the Enterprise
D transmuted into a war ship, and

00:46:41.354 --> 00:46:45.264
Guinan is the only one who knows
something is wrong and convinces

00:46:45.269 --> 00:46:50.189
Picard that what has to happen to
avert this 20 year war that everyone

00:46:50.384 --> 00:46:53.079
else figures like it's facts of life.

00:46:53.259 --> 00:46:56.409
She says, this war could have been
completely averted if the Enterprise C

00:46:56.409 --> 00:46:59.779
had just been destroyed at Narendra III.

00:46:59.897 --> 00:47:03.506
And so the rest of the episode is Picard
wrestling with the decision and then

00:47:03.806 --> 00:47:08.456
the, everyone planning to send the
Enterprise C back into the time rift

00:47:08.486 --> 00:47:10.796
where they know it's a suicide mission.

00:47:10.796 --> 00:47:13.458
They're gonna get destroyed by
the Romulans when they get there.

00:47:13.458 --> 00:47:17.572
But they decide to sacrifice the
ship with what's left of the crew,

00:47:17.632 --> 00:47:24.098
a aboard and even a volunteer Tasha
Yar manning the tactical station.

00:47:24.150 --> 00:47:28.437
And fans know what, what ends up
happening to Tasha Yar as a result

00:47:28.442 --> 00:47:30.237
of her presence in the past there as

00:47:30.392 --> 00:47:31.442
Rob: Yes, we do.

00:47:31.532 --> 00:47:32.612
Yes, we do.

00:47:32.658 --> 00:47:35.478
I've got another one I
found was from Voyager.

00:47:35.508 --> 00:47:36.228
Star Trek Voyager.

00:47:36.228 --> 00:47:37.908
You probably found this as well, Deadlock.

00:47:38.093 --> 00:47:39.879
Kevin: Ooh I did not remember Deadlock.

00:47:39.879 --> 00:47:40.179
Give it to

00:47:40.274 --> 00:47:43.501
Rob: Ah, so it, it's the
it's season two, episode 21.

00:47:43.562 --> 00:47:47.113
It's a famous episode for many
reasons where we have the birth,

00:47:47.113 --> 00:47:49.052
the newborn Naomi Wildman.

00:47:49.532 --> 00:47:53.865
This is of course, before Seven of
Nine has built their relationship with

00:47:53.870 --> 00:47:57.393
them, but they're being chased down
by the the Vidiians, that's right.

00:47:57.460 --> 00:48:02.940
So this is the early days of Voyager
where the main arcing villain, they tried

00:48:02.990 --> 00:48:04.430
the Kazons and that didn't really work.

00:48:04.430 --> 00:48:09.007
So they, then they tried the Vidiians
who were the organ harvesting creatures.

00:48:09.007 --> 00:48:12.004
And so they are on their
way to taking over the ship.

00:48:12.184 --> 00:48:16.054
And for whatever reason, some way, shape
or form, there are two Voyagers created.

00:48:16.054 --> 00:48:20.614
There's a, the overly damaged Voyager
and their other regular Voyager.

00:48:20.614 --> 00:48:25.114
Janeway and Janeway discuss the
only way that they could solve this

00:48:25.114 --> 00:48:30.940
problem is that damaged Voyager has to
self-destruct so they can save the day.

00:48:31.180 --> 00:48:34.561
So it's that, that, the
greater good is sacrificed.

00:48:34.566 --> 00:48:37.583
The needs of the many outweigh the needs
of the many on a parallel version of it.

00:48:37.583 --> 00:48:41.646
So there's two Voyagers and one
has to be destroyed to to stop the

00:48:41.646 --> 00:48:43.746
Vidiians and this calamity happening.

00:48:43.956 --> 00:48:47.256
And a newborn, Naomi Wildman's there
with the points on her head and

00:48:47.256 --> 00:48:48.892
we all think, how did that hope?

00:48:48.892 --> 00:48:53.362
Oh gee, I hope it was a hope
that baby was teleported out.

00:48:53.486 --> 00:48:54.583
Kevin: Was it have you watched it

00:48:54.843 --> 00:48:57.873
Rob: No, I haven't, I do want to
go back and watch it cuz the Ians

00:48:57.878 --> 00:49:00.620
were a rather creepy creation

00:49:00.650 --> 00:49:01.605
Kevin: The Vidiians were great.

00:49:01.605 --> 00:49:03.405
I was sad to see them left behind.

00:49:03.447 --> 00:49:04.617
But that's how Voyager went.

00:49:04.963 --> 00:49:05.473
Rob: Forward.

00:49:05.473 --> 00:49:06.223
Ever Forward.

00:49:06.713 --> 00:49:08.993
Kevin: Yeah, there, there were
at least a couple of times.

00:49:08.993 --> 00:49:10.073
Deadlock is one of them.

00:49:10.078 --> 00:49:15.118
And there's another one where
there's like a copy of Voyager that

00:49:15.208 --> 00:49:17.218
ends up like evaporating in space.

00:49:17.218 --> 00:49:21.897
Like it's made up of this shapeshifting
matter that is conscious and convinces

00:49:21.902 --> 00:49:26.247
itself that it is the ship and crew
of Voyager, but they all start melting

00:49:26.270 --> 00:49:32.417
and it's it's like a tragic end as
they fall apart and then are discovered

00:49:32.422 --> 00:49:35.807
by the real Voyager who go, oh, like
what's this weird cloud in space?

00:49:35.867 --> 00:49:36.287
I don't know.

00:49:36.292 --> 00:49:36.677
Let's keep

00:49:36.847 --> 00:49:37.897
Rob: That's right.

00:49:37.897 --> 00:49:38.677
Yeah, yeah, Yeah.

00:49:38.677 --> 00:49:41.347
And it is that sort of like moment at
there and go, oh, what's this weird thing?

00:49:41.347 --> 00:49:42.217
Oh, doesn't matter.

00:49:42.917 --> 00:49:47.772
Kevin: not so much a sacrifice as a
glimpse of an ill fate of Voyager.

00:49:47.777 --> 00:49:50.027
Like what if Voyager didn't make at home?

00:49:50.117 --> 00:49:53.717
Let's play out one of those
scenarios and do some sci-fi

00:49:53.722 --> 00:49:55.547
cheating so that it doesn't count.

00:49:55.567 --> 00:49:58.892
The other one, the only other one
on my list was another one of those.

00:49:58.892 --> 00:50:04.022
It is Star Trek Voyager season four,
episodes eight and nine Year of Hell,

00:50:04.832 --> 00:50:11.177
which is another alternate timeline
episode where for a year, It is

00:50:11.177 --> 00:50:14.837
like, it is a very epic two-parter
because again and again throughout

00:50:14.837 --> 00:50:18.887
this, these episodes, we jump forward
in time and there's a title card

00:50:18.887 --> 00:50:22.427
that says like, day 46, day 129.

00:50:22.547 --> 00:50:28.217
And this is really a story of what
if Voyager didn't make at home?

00:50:28.217 --> 00:50:35.387
What if one of the species whose territory
they entered along the way was menacing

00:50:35.387 --> 00:50:40.400
enough, warlike enough and effective
enough at whittling down Voyager so that

00:50:40.400 --> 00:50:43.220
they ultimately didn't make it home.

00:50:43.300 --> 00:50:47.301
And there is the big cliffhanger
between the two parts is the moment

00:50:47.301 --> 00:50:54.706
that Janeway finally decides staying,
asking the crew to stay on this ailing,

00:50:55.081 --> 00:50:59.731
increasingly damaged Voyager is a death
sentence, and she sends them all out

00:50:59.731 --> 00:51:04.040
in the escape pods and says, we will,
we'll meet again on the other side.

00:51:04.040 --> 00:51:07.403
I look forward to hearing your
interesting stories when we do,

00:51:07.433 --> 00:51:09.503
but you can see it in her face.

00:51:09.508 --> 00:51:12.773
You can hear it in her voice that she
doesn't believe it as she's saying it.

00:51:12.820 --> 00:51:16.416
And then part two is the skeleton
crew of just the bridge crew left on

00:51:16.416 --> 00:51:17.976
the ship trying to keep it running.

00:51:18.216 --> 00:51:22.596
They hide in a, in a nebula, and
because most of the hull is missing,

00:51:22.686 --> 00:51:27.362
the nebula seeps into the ship, and
they have to deal with the toxic

00:51:27.362 --> 00:51:32.662
gases and ultimately Janeway and
Voyager sacrifices itself at the end.

00:51:33.022 --> 00:51:37.925
Janeway, last person standing on the
ship, she the rest of the bridge crew is

00:51:37.930 --> 00:51:44.795
transported to some ally ships and Janeway
is left alone on board on the bridge.

00:51:44.825 --> 00:51:52.790
And she chooses to ram the time ship that
is responsible for this alternate timeline

00:51:52.814 --> 00:51:54.765
that occupies this entire episode.

00:51:54.765 --> 00:51:58.360
And, but it's not so much of a
sacrifice as the other ones we've

00:51:58.360 --> 00:52:01.030
seen because Janeway knows what
she's doing and she's doing it.

00:52:01.030 --> 00:52:04.120
She says, everyone drop your time shields.

00:52:04.184 --> 00:52:08.529
When I hit this thing, if I'm lucky
it will reset the timeline and none

00:52:08.529 --> 00:52:09.819
of this will have ever happened.

00:52:09.969 --> 00:52:15.519
But nevertheless, we get to see
Voyager nose first into another ship

00:52:15.519 --> 00:52:18.039
and crumple and burst into flames.

00:52:18.429 --> 00:52:22.501
And we know Janeway is sitting in
the pilot seat when that happens.

00:52:22.741 --> 00:52:26.958
So it does have, it definitely
does have an echo of what we saw in

00:52:26.958 --> 00:52:31.611
Prodigy this week with with Janeway
captaining the ship on its fateful final

00:52:31.706 --> 00:52:32.556
Rob: Definitely.

00:52:32.556 --> 00:52:33.276
Definitely.

00:52:33.352 --> 00:52:33.935
Kevin: There you go.

00:52:33.952 --> 00:52:38.571
Certainly many more instances of
self-destructs being started and

00:52:38.571 --> 00:52:43.191
then aborted at the last minute, or
attempted and not working because

00:52:43.191 --> 00:52:45.199
they the ship is too badly damaged.

00:52:45.469 --> 00:52:49.579
Many threats of ship's self-destruction,
but going through with it is

00:52:49.584 --> 00:52:50.869
a surprisingly rare event.

00:52:50.874 --> 00:52:51.444
Rob: Exactly.

00:52:51.449 --> 00:52:55.104
And if Galaxy Quests taught us
anything, it only gets to one and

00:52:55.104 --> 00:52:56.454
then it doesn't actually blow up.

00:52:57.324 --> 00:52:59.762
Cuz that's how every all
self-destruct episodes go.

00:52:59.824 --> 00:53:00.263
So yes.

00:53:00.291 --> 00:53:03.917
It was good to explore again,
go back into Star Trek III.

00:53:03.942 --> 00:53:07.237
Why does it Star Trek III and Star
Trek V keep on drawing us back in.

00:53:07.534 --> 00:53:09.584
Kevin: I'll keep finding
excuses until you watch

00:53:09.684 --> 00:53:11.304
Rob: Yeah, that's right.

00:53:11.454 --> 00:53:12.024
That's right.

00:53:12.054 --> 00:53:16.222
It is all you are the, this is the
season finale of Subspace Radio.

00:53:16.252 --> 00:53:17.902
It was your plan all along.