Matt Abrahams: Empathy and transparency are essential for effective
communication in person or virtually.
My name's Matt Abrahams, and I teach Strategic Communication at
Stanford Graduate School of Business.
Welcome to Think Fast, Talk Smart, the podcast.
Today, I look forward to speaking with Kim Storin.
Kim is Zoom's chief marketing officer who oversees brand,
marketing, and communication.
She's a seasoned executive with a background spanning startups
to Fortune 50 companies.
Well, welcome, Kim.
I am excited for our conversation.
Kim Storin: Me too.
Thanks for having me here.
Matt Abrahams: Excellent.
Shall we get started?
Kim Storin: Let's do it.
Matt Abrahams: Excellent.
Well, I have a long relationship with Zoom.
Back in around 2015 at Stanford's Business School, I initiated a class
on virtual communication, and the deans at the time were like, "Oh, go ahead
and teach the class, but, you know, we're not sure how important that is."
Ironically, it became very important.
And Eric Yuan, your CEO, was very kind at that time.
We had a different tool in place at the business school, and I had
learned of Zoom and saw its potential.
And because Eric was affiliated with the school, he's a graduate of one of
our executive education programs, I reached out to him, and he was very kind.
And in fact, the very first use of Zoom at Stanford was as a result of Eric
giving us free access for the class.
And ever since then, he and I have been close, and Zoom has been something
that's been important on the campus.
So just wanted to give a little bit of that background, and I'm glad
that he introduced me to you to have you here today, so thank you.
So let's get started.
Clearly, COVID and the pandemic had a huge impact on Zoom.
Uh, without exaggeration, I think it's fair to say that Zoom saved
countless businesses and allowed for many parts of our everyday
lives to continue and function.
Looking back, what are you and the company most proud of, and are
there things that you might have done differently with hindsight?
Kim Storin: You know, I wasn't here at Zoom at the time.
I've only been here for about a year now.
I did watch what Zoom did, and I really admired how Zoom took the challenge
head-on and how Eric led with such empathy for not just customers, because
Zoom was an enterprise business at that point, but for what the world
was going through at that time.
And, you know, for people, not just organizations, but also individuals,
families, students that were, were looking for ways to, to connect, to
learn, to work during that period, right?
You really saw how Zoom became such a critical part of how we functioned and
how we communicated during that time.
But what's interesting is because of how Eric and the leadership
team were so empathetic, put that freemium model in place right off
the bat, helped turn on every school, every company, every individual.
And so as a result of that, we became a household name.
We became a verb, right?
We're the Kleenex of software.
And we have nearly 100% brand awareness.
But as the business has grown, that brand awareness has actually made it
harder for us to shift perception.
So we've expanded into areas much further than just video conferencing,
yet because of the ubiquity of the brand, we've still been pigeonholed in a way.
And people don't recognize the breadth and depth of our product portfolio and
the problems that we solve for customers.
And so that, you know, ubiquity, that becoming a verb during COVID,
really makes it challenging as a marketing and communications leader.
Matt Abrahams: Yeah, I, I can imagine.
It's like an actor who gets typecasted as a specific role.
And one of the things that I think is impressive about Zoom and many other
companies during times of difficulty and tragedy, leading with empathy
and doing what's right, even if it's may or may not benefit the business
right away, I, I think is important.
I think Zoom did that very well.
So talk to me a little bit about how do you try to change perceptions and expand
people's very pigeonholed view of you all, but, uh, this happens in a lot of
industries and a lot of businesses, where people see you as one thing, and in our
communication we need to expand that.
Are there certain things that you do or are trying to help expand that view?
Kim Storin: Absolutely.
And, you know, I would say it's two-pronged, if you will, right?
There is one aspect that is more scientific and one that's more of the art.
And so when you think about the scientific elements, people now are spending 50 or
80%, I should say, of their buying journey where they don't wanna talk to a brand.
They wanna do the research on their own.
Buyers are now starting their buying cycle on a large language model.
So those two dynamics mean that we have to be really scientific
of how are we marketing ourselves?
How are we ensuring that we are strategically positioning ourselves?
That's the scientific part, right?
All of the elements of, like, how are you showing up in that funnel when
people don't wanna be talking to you, they wanna be learning about you.
The second piece is more of the art, which is much more oriented around that
brand-to-demand connection and ensuring that you're showing up at all the right
places where your customers care, that you're putting content out there that
answers their pain points, that helps them progress through that preference
formation journey, that we're leveraging in-person events and are experiential, and
we have the right marketing mix overall.
So that's a little bit more of the art side.
And ultimately, it takes the combination of both the science and
the art in order to, to change that perception, and it really starts
with anchoring on a narrative.
And consistency drives preference at the end of the day.
So even as you're balancing art and science, like, you have to
be constantly coming back to that core narrative that really defines
the company and that North Star.
Matt Abrahams: Well, you're certainly singing my tune when it
comes to storytelling narrative.
Super important.
And we focus a lot of that in the classes I teach on Strategic Communication.
And consistency is critical.
The idea of transitioning from awareness to preference building,
that's really fundamental.
And in large part, as you mentioned, a result of how AI
is impacting how people buy.
And then the brand and demand and being just where people are and making sure they
understand the pain point that you solve.
These are lessons that all of us can take in the businesses we run.
But it's an evolved form of marketing, right?
This is a very different world for sure.
Zoom has scaled rapidly.
You're in charge of both external and internal comms.
How do you maintain a cohesive company culture with a rapidly
expanding organization, both domestically and internationally?
How do you keep that culture alive?
Kim Storin: We believe that culture starts at the top, and we take it very
seriously, and it is something that Eric and our executive staff think
about and talk about all the time.
We also have a very flat organization, and that helps ensure that communications
are consistent, that there's not layers and layers to drive that
message through the organization.
And ultimately, we really do reward speed, curiosity, learning, and care.
And those cultural attributes are the core of how we act, the decisions that
we make, and how we treat each other and how we treat our communities.
And we really take that seriously.
So we are driving those conversations with managers on a regular basis.
We bring those messages to a biweekly town hall meeting with all employees,
which I've never in my career seen such a drive and commitment to
transparent communications in that way.
People are used to seeing a quarterly all-hands meeting, not a
every other week all-hands meeting.
And so I think it's really a testament to our executive team's core commitment
to our culture and our values and to transparent communications.
Matt Abrahams: So it sounds to me several things there that
all of us could benefit from.
One, having a clear distillation of what your values are, speed,
learning, care, and those serve as that guiding light, and then providing
opportunity to be transparent.
And the frequency of, in your case, all-hands meetings.
And then having a flatter organizational structure that
then focuses on communication and consistency helps as well.
And those are really important ingredients, I think, to helping
a culture flourish and take root in the midst of rapid growth.
So thank you.
Tools like Zoom have made much of our communication more
transactional and scheduled.
This can absolutely drive efficiency, but it can work against
serendipity and spontaneity.
What are your thoughts on what is gained and lost in this virtual modality?
Kim Storin: So I agree.
I think the water cooler moments and those happen stance, those happen chance moments
that are like IRL are so critical to professional development and work agility.
And so I think ultimately we are giving that up a little bit.
But on the other hand, what we've done is enable communication and
collaboration with the world and across your organization and across
your customers and your partners at a scale that was previously unattainable.
And so I think the ubiquity of Zoom has really opened up the world, both how
you communicate within your organization and how you communicate outside your
organization in a way that just wasn't, we, we would never have been able to see
this at scale without the technology.
So I think what's really critical is that we do both, right?
There's value in those in real life moments, in those water cooler moments.
We all have the stories of where something happened as a result and,
you know, drove our professional development, our career growth.
That was just a happen chance moment.
And so we want to ensure that we're like still enabling those moments, but there
is so much beneficial from the virtual standpoint and just the global mindset,
being able to talk and communicate and collaborate with your peers in your,
with your team in India while you sit in San Jose, like that's a huge opportunity
for global communications at scale.
So I think it is ultimately finding that balance and ensuring that the
technology is ultimately helping where it can, driving context, ensuring
that we've got different ways of communicating, helping understand,
and taking notes that works for both the individual and the enterprise.
But ultimately, it's not replacing those in real life moments.
It's augmenting them.
Matt Abrahams: Are there things that you do in your own team or in
your own life where you actually design for that spontaneity?
So for example, do you pull your team together in real life and,
uh, with a certain frequency?
Are there certain icebreakers or activities you do?
Kim Storin: We are very committed overall of bringing people together in person
when needed to drive brainstorming and ideation and problem-solving.
But I think for the folks that don't naturally have those opportunities
because they don't sit in a function like marketing that is public facing
and kind of running those big event opportunities, I think raising your hand
and talking to your leader about where are the right places, when is it the
right time to spend a week at headquarters and have some of those moments?
When is it the right time to bring your team together for an offsite?
And when the opportunity outweighs the cost Leaders are receptive to
that, but you as an individual in an organization also have to be raising
your hand and sharing those ideas with your leader so that those happenstance
and in real-life moments can happen.
Matt Abrahams: Excellent.
I like that you lean into the role and job responsibility opportunities to be in real
life and weigh the pros and cons and costs of when it makes sense to bring people
in, either based on the task that's being done or the need of the group at the time.
I'd like to get your suggestions for how we can handle challenging
external communication issues that business leaders might face.
For example, you have to announce a layoff, or what happened with Zoom.
Zoom required that all employees come back to the office, which
had a moment in the media.
How do you advise people to think about their communication when the view in
the public might be negative towards it?
What advice do you give as somebody who has vast experience in marketing
to help in those situations?
Kim Storin: So I actually started my career in crisis
communications, funny enough.
So I think about this a lot, and also great that I started in crisis
communications because my first week on the job here at Zoom, we
faced a crisis, which was an outage that impacted the Zoom platform.
And ultimately, what I believe is best practice is transparency and clarity.
And again, going back to our DNA, speed of that response.
And so I think ultimately understanding the crisis, have full frame of
the crisis is really important.
So going slow to go fast, because if you start moving fast with limited information
or not understanding the repercussions of the crisis at hand, you can end up
having to backtrack, which makes it even worse, calls more attention than if you
had taken a beat and made sure that you had the full view of what's happening.
So I always say, like, go slow to go fast when it comes to a crisis, but you have
to act with a sense of urgency and be able to pull the right voices together.
In many ways, it is the voice of our partners, the voice of analysts, the voice
of media that people look to in a crisis.
Like, what are these third parties saying about the crisis, not
just what the company is saying?
And so in that moment of going slow to go fast, in that moment
of really understanding the issue, also mapping out who are the
voices, who are the stakeholders that can help you tell your story.
And that becomes really critical because it is core for you to own the
message and your narrative, but you also want to shape the market narrative.
And so I always like to start with that stakeholder map as well and understanding
who can help me tell this story.
Were there other partners that are involved in the crisis?
Are there other partners that have a stake in the ground?
Anyone shaping that narrative that we need to be working with to
collectively shape that narrative.
And then lastly, like I try to be as transparent as possible because again,
we live in an age where people can spot fakeness and inauthenticity so fast.
And again, you want to watch out for making the reputation
worse, and your reputation and your brand are the most valuable
assets that you have as a company.
And so being able to be very transparent and clear, especially
if customers were impacted, is kind of the third piece of what I would
say is kind of crisis comms 101.
Matt Abrahams: So thinking about the stakeholder map is really important.
Who are the constituents that are involved?
It's, uh, beyond just the company and the customers.
Slowing down to understand fully the situation and then creating messages
that are transparent and understandable and clear, really important.
And thank you for sharing that because all of us in our work, be it in our personal
work or in the work of the company, are going to have times where we have
to communicate challenging information outside the walls of the organization.
Kim, this has been really enlightening and insightful.
Thank you.
Before we end, I like to ask everybody three questions, one I create just for you
and two I've been asking for a long time.
Are you up for that?
Kim Storin: Let's do it.
Matt Abrahams: So I know you believe strongly in philanthropy, and
you focus on many causes in this area, especially women's issues.
Can you share why you feel so strongly that we all should think about giving
back and focusing on philanthropy?
Kim Storin: Absolutely.
So I started community work and volunteering back when I was in fourth
grade, and my mom played a huge role in, in helping to, to shape this in me.
I do believe that service is a virtue, and it is the responsibility of each
of us to do unto others as we would have done unto ourselves, right?
That was the thing I learned from my mom, was really the
importance of that golden rule.
I'm now really focused on community-led solutions to local challenges, and
it's why I've become such a huge supporter of community foundations.
You know, we have such a loneliness epidemic, and what I love about
the community foundation is that it truly is about community.
Not just about philanthropy, but also coming together as a community to solve
the problems in the community, and it makes us feel more connected to, to our
local organizations, to others that have similar things that they care about.
Matt Abrahams: I love that you have a long history of philanthropy and that
it's beyond just doing what's good and, and in many cases right, but it's
about building a sense of community.
And that amplification can really make a difference.
Question number two, who is a communicator that you admire and why?
Kim Storin: So my mind goes to, and it's probably 'cause I've been
hanging out a little bit too much with my nieces, but Taylor Swift is
just somebody that I think does such an amazing job of communications.
And I think ultimately, I call her this, like, audience architect
because she has such a sophisticated view with the role that the audience
plays in how she communicates.
And she does a lot of direct to audience communication, and she disintermediates
the media a lot, which I think is a valuable lesson for all of us.
Not that, like, we all have the ability to pull off what Taylor's name grants
her in the, in the market, but she does turn fans into distribution channels
and more importantly, into defenders with such a passion and standing up
for you when you're not in the room.
And so I think there's a lot we can learn there.
Matt Abrahams: I love that you picked Taylor Swift.
I think she's a great example for many of the reasons you articulated.
This idea of audience architecture and really thinking about your audience
and how to convert fans into defenders is a really interesting idea for all
of us to think about and to watch how she does it, and she's just so
dynamic and with so much energy.
I appreciate that.
Final question for you, Kim.
What are the first three ingredients that go into a successful communication recipe?
Kim Storin: So I think we've talked about all of these
things, but I'll just reiterate.
So I think number one is authenticity, especially in this world of AI
slop, authenticity is going to rule.
Gen Z is telling us over and over and over again that
authentic communications matters.
Taylor Swift is telling us over and over again, authentic communication matters.
I think the second one is transparency.
We talked about that when we talked about crisis communications, and
I think transparency, whether it's internal communications or
external, goes a really long way.
I think spin has less value right now than authenticity and transparency.
And then lastly, solutions oriented, and I say that because I think so many of the
times we think it's about the words that we're using, and really what it is, it's
the solution that we're communicating.
When you have a crisis or message that you're trying to bring to the
masses, you want them to understand that you understand the problem and
you're bringing them a solution.
And ultimately, we're not just navel-gazing.
And so I think that third piece of the recipe has to be solutions orientation
Matt Abrahams: I really like your three, and everybody listening knows
I like when things are memorable.
So authenticity, transparency, relevancy.
If you have those three ingredients, you're going to have very successful
communication and very connected communication, which is really important.
Kim, this has been really a great conversation and very insightful.
Many of the things that you shared are things that people
will or have confronted, and some of your best practices can
really help us make a difference.
Thank you for your time and thank you for your insights.
Kim Storin: Thank you.
And always remember, what would Taylor Swift do?
Matt Abrahams: Definitely shake it up, that's for sure.
Kim Storin: Amazing.
Matt Abrahams: Thank you for joining us for another episode of Think
Fast, Talk Smart, the podcast.
To learn more about managing internal and external communication, please
listen to episode 82 with Nancy Duarte.
This episode was produced by Katherine Reed, Ryan Campos, and me, Matt Abrahams.
Our music is from Floyd Wonder.
With special thanks to Podium Podcast Company.
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