Hello, friends. Okay. So today's show, I feel a little bit called out because we're gonna be talking about rest. And if you know me, well, you know me. And I kinda needed this show.

Maybe you do too. I hope it resonates with you all. Listen, I came across a statistic that stopped me in my tracks. Did you know that seventy two percent of parents get insufficient sleep at least three nights a week? And when we finally make it to the end of the day and the kids are in bed and the dishes are done and that one last email is sent, do you know what ninety five percent of us do?

And I do it too. We stay up late scrolling or watching shows because it's the only time that we feel like is ours. Do you feel that way? Let me know in the comments. Like, finally, at the end of the day, you're like, okay.

I can breathe. I can have a moment to myself. And this couldn't be more true for homeschooling families. And listen, if what I'm saying resonates with you at all, please know that I am absolutely in your camp right now. I am a working homeschool mom, which means my nights and weekends are when I actually get things done.

So after I've given myself all day teaching, working, making content, managing the chaos, sometimes I just wanna crawl into bed and watch my favorite show, which currently is that BBC show called the Midwife. Do you guys listen to that show? I love it so much. But I've been telling myself lately that's actually progress because I stopped scrolling TikTok. Why?

Because at least a show has an ending to it, and I can have a boundary with myself. Because when I scroll on TikTok, man, I'll be up till 2AM. Yeah. Enter the shame. But today's show, we're gonna talk about what rest is.

And I think that as an American society, we do confuse rest with escape, which is what a lot of us do at night. Because what if the things that we actually think are recharging us aren't doing that at all? What if they're contributing to our exhaustion? And I think most of us have really been taught that rest is kind of what numbs us out. But that's what we're gonna talk about today because I think it's important.

Are you in a in an exhausted state right now? I want to know. And this is not an area of expertise for me at all. Clearly not something that I have mastered. So I invited a qualified, brilliant guest on our show today.

Doctor Joe is a functional neurologist and a father of six who actually gets what our lives look like. And I'm hoping he can help us understand what's happening in our bodies when we are tired and what real rest actually looks like. Because whatever we're doing right now, whatever I'm doing, I don't think it's working. I'm waking up tired. This is gonna be a great show.

Stick around. Hello. Welcome to the show. I'm Christy Faith, and I am so glad that doctor Joe O'Toole is here with us today. He is a board certified functional neurologist who specializes in brain integration and helping families understand what their bodies actually need to recover.

But he's also a father of six, a homeschool graduate himself, a homeschool dad, and the president of Homeschool Iowa. So if there's anybody who knows what busy means, it's him and his family. He knows what our homeschool lives actually look like. And it's been a pleasure because our paths have crossed with him and his wife. I think twice now at homeschool conferences, Scott and I have thoroughly enjoyed getting to know them.

And I said, you have to come on the show, and we have to talk about rest. So Doctor. Joe, thank you so much for being here.

I appreciate you having me on. And just my background, I grew up in a family with nine kids and my mom homeschooled all of us all the way through and just instilled a desire for learning and instilled a desire for curiosity. That's really what has led a lot of my journey. So now I'm here really just in the trenches and going through the same struggles of there's not enough time in the day to get everything done that I feel like needs to be done. And then even just here sitting on the podcast with you talking about rest and Sabbath and sleep and all this stuff, this week, I feel like a hypocrite.

Because this week is like, I've had a year's worth of commitments all end up being in the same week. And and so we're sitting here and it's and and it can be very fatiguing to to feel like a hypocrite even. And so so that's where with it like I'm I'm there with everybody else and feeling the guilt that can come from feeling like a hypocrite. But it's it's not necessarily what you're doing, but what you change about your life that can help you, change what you're doing to be able to grow into that.

Yeah. Oh, man. Yeah. You guys, do you see why I love him so much, that vulnerability? So confession time, yesterday no.

Two days ago, I woke up at four to get work done before starting homeschooling. Yesterday, I woke up at 5AM to film a podcast, ended up being an hour late to co op. And then sure enough, co op rushing to games. I didn't even sit down and plop on the couch until like 9PM. And then woke up today, of course, fifteen minutes late to film this particular podcast.

So ladies, if you think that like experts or whatever, whatever you wanna call us, that we have it all together, we're not. I think this is a struggle just for everybody and especially in American society. I one of my one of the emphases of my graduate program, I have a graduate degree in history, was just like the American psyche. And I think a lot of this has to do with culture, which we're gonna talk about today. But first, doctor Joe, I wanna let's define some terms because I think we have a lot of confusion between rest.

Those of us who are faith based, we also use the word Sabbath. It's a good word just for anybody, honestly. And then also, we're gonna touch on a little bit of sleep as well. Would you just help us define maybe or redefine in our brains what rest actually is?

Yeah. So so actually, let me even take a step back from that and and not just define what rest is, but actually define a little bit what's what's going on with the brain and and talk a little bit about the brain because that's really where my passion is, is is the brain and how the brain interacts with our environment around us, and then how it creates this internal processing that we go through. So when we look at the brain, one of the biggest things that we need to see with the brain is that it's a highly metabolic organ. It's about 8% of our body weight, but about 20% of our metabolism all goes to our brain. So it's highly, highly outpacing the rest of our body with its energy requirements.

And so when we talk about sleep and rest and Sabbath, it's not just about our ability to unplug, but it's actually when we look at the physiological mechanisms, it's our ability for our brain to calm down the metabolic demand. And so when we look at that, even when we're defining terms, we have to start with what is the brain's requirement for that? And so it's really, when we're defining what is rest, what is sleep, what is Sabbath, it's really our brain's ability to not have as much of a metabolic demand as what it has during our problem solving, our waking, our engagement. And so that's really kind of a background. So when we're talking about sleep, sleep specifically, just to define sleep a little bit, a lot of people think of sleep as a passive event where we're unconscious, we're unaware, and then nothing happens in our brain.

Sleep is actually a highly active process. Sleep is not passive. When you talk about REM sleep, when you talk about dreaming, REM sleep really is a rapid eye movement is a hallmark of REM sleep. Dreaming is really highly active cortical, visual cortex engagement. So you're actually visualizing something that is not coming through your eyes because your eyelids are shut.

And so your brain is actually highly active when you're sleeping but you're just not getting that image through your through your eyes. What happens is and I've actually have some cases that I'm working with right now called cataplexy. Cataplexy basically is when you sleep, your brain is supposed to paralyze a physical output. And so you don't get you don't get this movement even though your brain is saying, I'm doing all this stuff. I'm engaging with this world around me.

I'm actually paralyzed from responding to that. And cataplexy is where you don't get that paralysis mechanism essentially. And so so we've got all of this stuff. Now, there's there's some cool things with sleep that we're we're not gonna maybe get into touch on later. But but again, understanding sleep is a highly active process where our brain is trying to, essentially make sense of the world and to process information, that we're not able to do with some of our conscious centers of the brain.

So sleep, just keep in mind, sleep is a highly active process. It's not a passive process. Rest, on the other hand, is a little bit more of a passive process. Rest is where you're not engaged in problem solving. And so we think of one component we think of is multitasking.

Multitasking. Okay? Multitasking is, I'm doing this. And and as a parent, especially as a homeschool mom or homeschool dad, but as a homeschool parent, you are constantly multitasking. Right?

Well, technically, multitasking is is not something our brain can do. It's called task switching. So, we can task switch between things and and we can task switch some people faster and better than others. But the problem with task switching is it takes a lot more metabolism to be able to engage this attention switch. And so that's what we live most of our lives in, and it's constantly getting worse and worse and worse with the rise of technology and just different abilities to pull us into different, different thinking and problem solving and engagement and relationships and all that stuff.

So all of that's going on. Rest is kind of the opposite of that, where I'm not constantly task switching. I'm actually passive. And think of more daydreaming. And again, getting just a little bit technical, you've got different networks in your brain.

If anybody's heard of the default mode network, that's kind of this network that's within your brain that is saying, I'm not engaged in problem solving. I'm not engaged in relationship solving, if you will. I'm just resting. I'm just daydreaming. So that's really kind of the network that's really heavily involved when you're not task switching constantly repetitively.

And so that's kind of the difference between rest and sleep. Sleep is a much more active process. Rest is a much more passive process. So helping to define those terms a little bit, that might help make sense. And then Sabbath rest takes a little bit of a different connotation in that.

I would say, a scientific standpoint, that's less defined, if you will. But really, a Sabbath rest is a little bit more of both a prolonged passive state, a prolonged time in that not problem solving, but then also a time for relational connection. And an ability to plug in and oftentimes, and I'm sure everybody in the audience today can speak to this. When life gets busier, when problems start coming at you more and more and more and attention gets divided, the relational aspect always suffers. Mhmm.

And so so then you start to speak different languages. You start to say the same thing but mean different things as as spouses or as children. And so, Sabbath Rest almost takes more of a relational connotation where I can spend time engaging and rebuilding this this part of my life that is actually the most influential in how our body perceives and responds to stress. And so so that's that's kind of how I would define the differences between the the Sabbath rest, rest, and sleep.

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Okay. One, that's mind blowing and that the questions running through my mind are insane. Like, one thing that popped in my mind is I remember being so frustrated when I was going through infertility. So in in my history, a lot of people know this about me. They know that I've had infertility, but they didn't know how many years.

We had seven full years of really, really sorrowful infertility. Yes. I have four kids now, but I'm also an older mom. So most of my friends and our friends who we got married with, their kids are grown already. So but I remember being so frustrated when ladies would say, Christy, you just need rest.

And I'm thinking to myself, tell my brain that. Tell my brain that because okay. So I'm sitting there. Sure. I'll pick up knitting.

And what am I thinking about during the knitting? Right? Or during doing doing a puzzle. And so can you help I think that that is a struggle, especially in in today's society where parents carry such a heavy mental load. Mhmm.

And more so than ever, and I even see a lot of it with the way the economy is now. Just like even going to the grocery store, I think even financially, you're carrying a much heavier load than we used to. We're looking at every single price now. Like, commodities, we have to look at those prices, things like that. Can you talk a little bit about what is this does this have to do with what the bible says about capturing our thoughts?

Like, protect is this something that we need to protect? Like, our minds just a million things, and then soccer, and then this, and then basketball practice, and then, wait, where are we gonna eat on the way, and this and that and the other? Can we talk about the brain a little bit with rest? Can the brain rest? And is this something to pursue?

Because I know that's something that I struggle with is even on a day off, even when I'm folding laundry Uh-huh. I'm thinking about a podcast episode idea or I'm thinking about right? You know, just everything the schedule for the next week or what I have to get ready for co op. You know?

Yeah. So so I would say that probably fits more into the category of a Sabbath rest. And and really, I would say to that is it really starts with an awareness that there's a need for it. And then secondary to that is then under or not necessarily understanding, but prioritizing that. And we've all seen, or most people have seen the illustration where you take rocks and you put them into a jar and then you put sand on top of it versus putting the sand in and then putting the rocks on top of that.

Whatever you prioritize gets done. Right? So if we're not prioritizing rest, what we're doing, we're prioritizing taking care of my kids, taking care of my responsibilities, my commitments, all of this stuff, which is important. But if it truly is a high priority, then rest has to be prioritized, has to be scheduled, and it has to be routine. And so that's where looking at, okay, I'm going to prioritize and I'm going to block off time on my schedule to make sure that I do this.

Now with that, there's a couple things that happen from that, and I'll talk in just a second on how to make that priority happen, especially in a busy family and and everything with that. But really, the the the reason why why a Sabbath rest helps you versus a short term twenty minute break that where you rest is that you're constantly gonna have these thoughts that come to you of, I've gotta get this done, and this has to get it scheduled, and that has to be done, and, oh, yeah, and we need to make a meal plan, and and then, oh, yeah, we need to invite these people over, or or whatever it is. The reason why it's helpful to have a Sabbath, a prolonged rest period, is those thoughts can come, but there's not pressure to perform. There's not the pressure that I have to do this now. So it it can enter your mind and you can say, oh, that's something I have to do but I don't need to do now because I have time and so so that's why I think Sabbath rest is important is that it even when you have those moments because when you live a busy life, those thoughts are going to come to you.

You can't you can't take captive and get rid of those thoughts. You can't truly just empty your mind unless maybe you're a man. Sometimes that that actually can happen. And and actually, I just saw some research on that. But but but other than that, like, thoughts are gonna come unbidden to you.

And so when it's saying take captive the thoughts, it's not saying don't let them happen. It's saying do the proper thing with them. And so so in that cases, if I only have twenty minutes on my schedule, it's I've got my twenty minutes. I've gotta shut my mind off during this time. Now, your mind is not shutting off because you're concentrating on, I've got to shut my mind off.

And so you're problem solving in that case. Versus if you have this prolonged block on your schedule where, alright, these things are coming. I'm folding laundry and I've got to do my meal plan, but you know, I've got time to do that later. So, there's not the pressure to perform. And so that's what I think taking captive those thoughts is in part same from that standpoint.

Yeah. And, you know, what's interesting is and I forget what book I read. Someone will put it in the comments, I'm sure, when they see this, when this episode airs. There's a really famous book on Sabbath rest, and it was written by I can't remember the gentleman's name. But I think that I read the book, and I think that one of the aspects about being in the Jewish tradition with the Sabbath is that it's it is the rule.

Like, you're you're no one is forced to do anything. But if if you wanna be obedient, you do preserve the Sabbath. And he talks about in that book, and I remember and I I read it a couple of years ago, actually. So it's it's a little bit foggy. Forgive me.

I'll put a link in the show notes maybe. But but it's like when you have that expectation, you you are almost forced to do it. Whereas today in American society, even as even if you're a Christian listening to this today, I even feel like Christian American culture, evangelical culture still doesn't actually conceptualize Sabbath rest. And you know, like, soon as you get home from church, the mom's making the ball game snacks and you're this and that. You're inviting people over and and that type of a thing, which at least for me is not restful, having people over.

But I think that there's something to, like, that biblical Sabbath rest where it was like a designated day where everyone else is doing it too, and that is the expectation that's kind of gone. And so, you know, however people interpret that, I I don't know. But what are your thoughts on that in terms of, like, the cultural expectation for it?

Yes. And so that's where, I have two thoughts on that. One is we create our own culture. And so so that's where in part what we allow and accept is going to spread both to our family and to the friends in our inner circle. And so I 100% agree with you that that those in in a church setting typically don't understand Sabbath rest very well at all.

And and so but as we prioritize and push that out, then that creates a culture around us. So it's almost a micro culture where then we can kind of enforce this societal pressure to say, no, I'm not doing anything on this day. So that's one component that I think is important from a societal or cultural pressure is that you can create that for yourself. The second is, so so growing up, I grew up in a really small town in Iowa, and almost everything was shut down on Sundays. It was just kind of the given.

Like, nothing was open. You you could maybe go to the gas station and and that would be open. And then I my sister-in-law lived in the Cayman Islands for years and that that's a great place for Sabbath rest. I'll I'll say that. Going and sitting on the beach is a great place to unwind and just shut down.

But one of the things that I found very very unique was when we went down to visit, it was it's a small community, essentially. Right? There's you can't get away from it. You can't go drive somewhere. You're on this small island.

And almost everything was shut down on Sundays. The the businesses were shut down. Restaurants were shut down. Grocery stores were shut down. And there was this calming pace that that took over when when just there's just this time in the entire society at large where everything just the pace just goes from here to here.

And so so there's a tremendous value in having that societal influence. But again, you can impact your the society around you, and you can impact the culture around you. So so as a as a homeschool family, you're already con counter countercultural, Right? You're you're already pushing back in certain ways. So so it's not gonna be hard to then just add, okay, I'm a little weird already.

Let's just be a little bit more weird and say, you know what? We're gonna prioritize having a Sabbath rest. So one of the things that I found for myself personally, especially early on when I was first launching our clinic and building a business, and heavily involved in that, heavily involved, I was coaching high school football. We were helping plant a church. We were involved in so many things, having children, homeschooling.

There there's not time in your life to do everything that you need to do. And and especially and and this is where even understanding what a Sabbath rest is, we can get very legalistic with that. But what I had to find is, okay, I'm helping plant a church. So, Sundays actually are not a time for Sabbath rest. There's a lot of work that's going into it.

If you're in full time ministry as a pastor, let's say, your Sabbath rest is not on Saturday, right? You're you're heavily involved oftentimes. So, I actually had to think a little bit more creatively and and I I took time off from Wednesday at noon to Thursday at noon and I created the Sabbath rest. Again, a little bit non traditional but but not getting to the legal aspects of what it looks like, but to the heart of what it looks like and what it's supposed to look like. And so so making sure, okay, I am shut down from noon to noon, and I'm able to engage with my family.

I'm able to engage. I'll go out and get coffee with somebody or or do things like that. But but I'm not engaging in problem solving and solving the world's problems and solving everybody's problems. This is my time to protect and prioritize my own personal relationship with my creator, with my family, and with my friends. And so that's that's really, what I would recommend is Sabbath rest is so vitally important that you need to make sure that you find the time for it, and it might not just be a Sunday thing.

That's so powerful. And that reminds me when we first moved to Colorado, Scott flew back to Los Angeles every week. And I was solo. My parents sister hadn't moved out here. They're all here now, and we're all together, and it's really fun.

But I was alone here in a new city, and Scott left every week. And I had wait for my ages of kids. Lincoln was five, the twins were two, and the baby was seven months old when we moved here. And so it was like those first two years. Right?

But you know how I got through it? And and honestly, Scott is well, one, he's like my favorite person in the whole planet. But it's really hard to have, like, basically three babies, two year old twins and a and a baby at the same time. And then it was Lincoln's first year of homeschooling because he was five, like, actual, like, kindergarten. And when Scott would fly back, you know what he would do?

He would he would usually fly back on a Thursday evening, like, sometimes in the middle of the night on Thursday, and then he would wrap his week up on Friday. But when I woke up on Saturday morning, nothing. Nothing. He woke up with the kids. He fed the kids.

Even if there were no groceries in the house, he didn't wake me up and ask me what's in the fridge. No. He went and ordered bagels. Like, he just I literally did not have to think of any type of caregiving at all for the entire day of Saturday. And honestly, it got me through.

Now, did did I spend a portion of that, like, just focusing and ordering groceries online? I will admit, yes, I will. Yeah. But I had, like, the focus to do it. But I also, like, would read some books or I would call a friend or do something.

I had no pressure for caregiving. And I think that and that was huge. And that absolutely was the Sabbath that he gave me during that time. And it recharged me for the week, and he then got on an airplane again. And we had to do that until we sold the company.

But one thing that I think we need to have a heart to heart about is caregiving. Because I think of those early years when I would get try to get all four kids to church. Mhmm. I by the time I sat down, I'm, like, done for the day. Yes.

Yeah. We we've all been through that trying to get the kids

to Yeah.

You don't enter a spirit of with a spirit of rest when you're trying to get kids to

get kids kids kids get kids Yeah. Exactly. And you're like, okay. Sit down. Let's start Sabbath or whatever.

Right. You

know? And and so I think that I think that there may need to be and I hope that there are some conversations between spouses regarding what it means to care give and carry the mental load because a lot of this the lot of the ladies listening today are homeschooling moms. So they don't get that eight hours during the weekday to, you know, see the doctor, have a coffee with friend. And and I'm always the first person to say homeschooling is not the easiest choice. A lot of people call us privileged.

No. We make a ton of yes. We are privileged. We are privileged with the fact that we can make sacrifices in many ways financially and all of that to be able to do this and still survive and have our families be supported. So yes, in that sense.

But we cannot blow past the fact just how many sacrifices it takes to be able to homeschool our kids, and it is not the easiest choice. It is the worthwhile choice. It's the same as I often compare it to having kids. Like, there's those, you know, people in their twenties. Oh, I don't wanna have kids.

They're too big. And then they have kids, and they're like, how could I do? It's hard, but it's so worth it. I think homeschooling is the same way. But can you speak a little bit to maybe speak to a dad listening right now or a mom can have a dad listen to this podcast episode.

Can you speak a little bit too? Because I know you understand it. Your wife homeschools, your mom homeschooled you guys about this mental load that we are all carrying every single day. And are there and maybe a family can't do a full day like Scott was able to give me, but can you give your wife five hours? Could you speak to that a little bit?

Yeah. Definitely. So the generation that we are is different than my parents' generation. Right? And there's there's different priorities that we place on things.

But one thing that I so growing up in a family, nine kids, all of us were homeschooled. My mom was a nurse by training. One of the sacrifices that she made. And if you know nurses, nursing is a calling and an identity. It is not just a job.

Same thing with being a mom, quite frankly. Nurses make great moms oftentimes. I can speak personally to that. So so But my mom made a sacrifice to pursue being mom over career. She made a sacrifice to spend hours a day with nine kids, eight boys, right?

And and I thank god and I thank my parents for the privilege of spending that time with my parents and specifically with my mom. Now, my dad, in order to make that happen, you can imagine. So, eight out of the nine kids, eight of us were boys. So, you can imagine, where none of us are real small, the amount of money it took just to feed us. Were lot of sacrifices.

My dad worked three jobs. He worked a full time job and two part time jobs. But he structured his life in a way where even with the part time jobs, he was able to involve us in that. So we were able to spend time with dad to an extent by going to work with him. And I was learning how to sweep the shop floors while he was working at blue collar job, even though his main job was a white collar job.

And so he made those sacrifices, but he was able to then engage with us. And even within that, thinking creatively, he was able to take some of the load off my mom and be able to give her some time with that. Now, my mom is wired a little bit differently than a lot of people. Maybe it's just a generational thing. But she actually was the type of woman that didn't need time away from her children and time away from caregiving.

She was a Martha type of personality. And so she was actually fueled and fed by caring for her children. Even to this day, she can't sit down without caring for somebody. So you've got that type of person. But then there's a lot of people that they need that time.

My wife is more of the, I need some time away. And so, that's where it's, there are times similar to what I learned from my dad. I hate, I have the privilege, I will say this is a privilege, not a sacrifice, but it was also an intentional choice of career that I chose. The way that my career has taken shape is I can involve my children in what I do. And so I'm able to bring them with me and be able to relieve some of the load from my wife.

We're able to, again, have the privilege of having family close by where there's family members that can step in and they can spend time with grandpa and grandma. So every Wednesday afternoon is grandma day and and all the kids go spend time with grandma and and it's the best day for my gram for for my mother-in-law. It's the best day for our children and it's the best day for my wife And so it just gives her that time. So would say there's not one specific way to make it happen. Every single family's situation and dynamics are different, but you need to think creatively and you need to get on the same page as a couple.

And so that's a big piece, I think, kind of like you were saying, we need to sit down and have a heart to heart, right? And and in part, that's what a Sabbath rest allows is, okay, as husband and wife, we can send the kids out to the backyard to play, but we can now sit and have just a heart to heart. And deep conversations don't happen because I schedule something on my calendar and I have thirty minutes to talk. We're going get everything in in these thirty minutes. Deep conversations happen when you don't have time pressure.

And so that's part of it is if you can prioritize doing Sabbath rest, then you can actually sit down as a couple and say, we can have a deep conversation and start to let out some of the the harder things that I don't want to present to you. And and it it might just be a little touchy situation, touchy conversation. So now we can have that deep conversation and be able to say, where are we not on the same page? How do we need to prioritize this? How do we and so that's I think that's important.

And that's where maybe it's you're at a spa where you're not having Sabbath rest, and you just need to figure out how to make that happen. You might need to plan a date night and say, we're we're somebody's gonna watch the kids for six hours or five hours or whatever. And we're gonna go not just figure out, like, what do we need to do to problem solve, but, like, we're gonna go on a date night just to make sure that, like, we're gonna have a topic of conversation on. We need to make sure that we prioritize time and time to be together as a family, time to rest, and and really kinda explore that Sabbath conversation.

Yeah. And I think that a lot of people don't value their time and their attention as the value that it is. And we were just having this conversation last night with my son in terms of he's now entering high school basketball. There's a lot of demands. And we had we we asked him to start praying about and thinking about the commitment that is required to play varsity ball.

And if if that's what you really want, we will go to the ends of the earth, dude, to make that happen. We we want that for you. But we also want you to not just fall into it because because. We you need to make decisions about your time, and you need to think about what you want for your future. And do we need to incorporate those?

And could that mean changing how we do basketball? We would never take basketball, but we could absolutely change how we do basketball. Right? And so, because the school that he's at, the level of intensity is, a level that I'm not comfortable with. But, of course, you know, if you you can read into that as far as you want, ladies listening.

But, but, hey, listen. So as I'm thinking about my own life and I'm thinking about, man, okay, Sabbath rest, like, just taking a break, just being. Right? And and I love it when and one of the things I love about you, we talked about this at the conference that that we were at, is we both love when science confirms the Bible.

I see. Yeah.

Right. Like, God get God told us to do it, and here's why. I love doing that with parenting too. It's like there's seventy years of research to support what the Bible's been saying all along. But I wanna talk about like, I'm thinking about practical ways just for my own life right now.

Here, let's have a brainstorm sesh for Christy's hot mess life. But, I'm thinking, like, for me, I would like, if I want a Sunday Sabbath rest. Right? I would there are certain things that I would need to have accomplished on Saturday.

Yes.

That so that my mind could rest. And I love that you and I often when I teach my homeschool one zero one class at conferences, I love teaching the homeschool one zero one. I you put the jar up, that analogy, on the stones. Right? Because they're like, how do I get everything done?

And I'm like, you don't. You prioritize stones, pebble, sand, and then, that type of a thing. But I think that that's one practical takeaway, at least for me in terms of, like, a battle with with Sabbath rest and giving my brain a break to to calm down and, is maybe you need to have a couple of hours that your husband gives you or something or someone in your life gives you. I wanna talk about single parents and and things like that too. But but where okay.

Give me four hours so I can get this, that, and the other done so that we can really enjoy tomorrow. Right? That could be something. And, you know, what I mentioned earlier with Scott giving me that break because the caregiving at that time with three kids in diapers, all of that was just so intense, like the physical labor of it. But you know what?

Now, we like, my favorite way to do Sabbath is with my children. Whereas in that season, I needed a break from them. And so I think just holding loosely the whatever you need right now is not gonna be what you need forever. We're all in different seasons. And I think that maybe a priority, at least for me, and maybe a mom listening, is me taking responsibility to get clarity on what exactly I need so that I can communicate that.

Because everyone wants a happy family, and everyone knows that a happy mom

Yep. You're right.

Right? Right? Is a is more regulated family. Yes. But, yeah, you have I see thoughts running through your mind.

Go ahead.

Yeah. No. No. You are 100% correct. So one thing my father-in-law has said for years, especially when we're in the early stages of having young kids and all of that stuff, It's getting a little bit easier now because we have a Our oldest is 13.

So now we can actually go out and go for a walk. We can go out for a couple hours because we have an at home babysitter, which I'll come back to in just a second and make a point on that. But he would always say, especially those early years, you're in the numb years. He would constantly repeat, you're in the numb years. You're not going to remember this time.

You're going to think back on it and have fond memories, but it's going to be very numb. And it was a really good description of kind of those early years. Understanding there's different seasons in life. And especially with social media and our comparison culture, it's really easy to be like, oh, they're doing this and they're doing that. And I mean, not realizing the context of, oh, they're in a different season than I am.

And so I will do that, but I'm not doing that now. And so being able to kind of structure your life around, this is what I need to do now and what I need to prioritize now, and then those priorities will change later. And so I think that's a very critical point to understand and make is that the rocks that are in your jar, the big rocks right now, are not going to be the big rocks later. And so then structuring your life around that, I think, is really important. Coming back to having a babysitter in the house now, right?

One of the things that I often struggled with, especially early on in my career and just understanding life, growing up, understanding being an adult, all of that stuff. One of the things I struggled with is I am highly engaged in a lot of different areas in life. And with that comes a lot of responsibility and a lot of time commitment. And I was always struggling with this concept of you can't create more time. Time is a valuable commodity and you can't create time.

And I try to be a creative problem solver. And so as I was pondering through that, I started to think, but what if you could create more time? Instead of just saying you can't, what if you say, but what if? And one of the things that kept coming back to me is that actually, no, you can create more time from the standpoint of I can borrow other people's time. I can get other people to to come into my life and to relieve some of this burden off of me.

And so so as a business owner, I'm able to hire employees to come in and provide their expertise, their their experience, their knowledge, their wiring, their gifting, all of this. And and what takes me an hour to do, they can do in five minutes or things like that. So I can actually literally create time that way where I can get other people to take things off of me, and we commonly call that delegation. Right? Now, how does that actually work in a family setting is, again, talking about this comparison culture is, you know, my house needs to look just perfectly put together, and I need the decor to look like this, and I need the bathroom scrubbed, and I need to make the perfect little homemade meal, and I need all of this to look just the right way.

And that comparison culture is such a heavy influence, especially at homeschool moms who are kind of more of considered a stay at home mom where, all right, now that's your place. You need to make it look just right because you don't have any other responsibilities in life. Right? And so you start thinking this way of this perfectionistic mindset that is being influenced on you. And so then you start to get overwhelmed because, well, I also have to change diapers and I also have to do this.

And it gets a lot more messy than what it looks like in somebody's real. And so how do you make that happen? How do you create time for yourself as a stay at home mom, as a homeschool mom, as a homeschool dad? And really, you start to look at borrowing other people's time. And a group of people whose time is not utilized efficiently or well at all are children.

Right? I was hoping it was good here.

Almost unlimited time. Right? And and oftentimes, we get this disconnect. And the the beauty of homeschooling is that education does not have to be separated into academics and and left in that on that shelf. Right?

The beauty of homeschooling is education is living life and learning through life. And so, academics is a component of that, but our philosophy with our children is we are inviting them into our life. We're not living their life. Right? And so so, yes, our son wants to play basketball, and and he he loves it, and he's pursuing that.

So we will engage with him, but that's a part of our life as a family, not his life. And so that's where we're looking at it kind of from that angle. So then we can start to say, okay, you know what? The bathrooms need scrubbed. And mom does not have time to do that because she has other responsibilities.

So guess who's going to do that? Not mom. And so then you create this expectation with children that they are involved in the family. So you've got that. And I think a lot of people don't understand the value of putting your children to work.

But my wife and I were exploring that about six months ago because a comment that my mother-in-law gave us, she does Gramma Day. Every week, she does Gramma Day. And she made this comment to us. She said, your children are very confident and confident in a way that I don't see a lot of other children. And we're like, that's odd because we don't that's not actually been like a goal of ours is to create confident children.

I mean, it's kind of in the background, but we've never intentionally stated, I want confident children. Right? We want good leaders. We want socially engaged children. We want smart children.

We want caring. But we've never said confident. And so we started exploring, why are our children confident? Why is that something that is a unique trait that they have? And especially without being intentional to develop that.

And one of the things that we kept coming back to was confidence comes from identity, right? And identity comes from And actually, I think I might at some point be working with you on this kind of building out that identity and talking about the neurology of identity at some point. But one of the things with that that's building confidence is having that identity. And identity comes from a need for me, a usefulness that I am contributing. I have something to give.

And oftentimes, view children as this thing that we need to build and not necessarily this being that has something to give and to contribute. And so if we see our children as a part of our family and they've been created in a unique way, now they have something unique to contribute to the family. And that creates an identity and that creates a confidence. Where now they can go out in the world, they can engage with grandma, they can engage with friends, they can engage with other adults, and they can say, I know who I am because at home, I'm expected to scrub the toilets. At home, I am expected to watch my younger siblings so my parents can go for a walk because they need exercise and they need to connect.

So you create this unique culture. And that's why I am so convinced that homeschooling, if at all possible, is the best route that any family can go. Because it naturally tends towards the ability to create that family culture and that need, instead of sending your kids to another organization where there's not necessarily a need for them to be there, when they're in the family, when they are a part of that culture, now there's a need for me. And then that identity gets built, and then confidence gets built on that. So, that's why, coming back to like, how do you create more time and how do you it it it's it's beyond just this, I can create more time.

But it's literally, I am building my child's confidence and their identity by engaging them in taking things off of my plate.

Yeah. And I think a lot of parents feel guilty about it. You know, we live in the suburbs of Colorado, and it is a highly sports oriented culture, very, very busy, tons of extracurriculars. And one thing I've noticed with the kids, that are are not homeschooled, just as a general rule in my particular microculture here, is they're not doing chores. They are being schlepped from activity from adult led activity to adult led activity to adult led activity.

And then we are we are fed this lie that this is a good childhood. And and let me tell you, it's it's really, really sad, the the selfishness that I see, the lack of flexible thinking, the you know, when your life is wrapped up in, your sports performance, for example, or or any other perform, ballet performance, or just, you know, in how busy you are, how many things you do. We almost consider it a flex in our society to say, oh, I'm just so busy. Right? Everyone's busy.

Just everyone's busy. Okay? So but I think that, you know, because it is a basic human need to be needed to feel important, to feel valued. And so, you know, it's interesting because in Thrive Homeschool Community, we talk about this in my, eight step I have an eight step homeschool success framework, and we talk about balancing your home and things like that, and how valuable it is to incorporate a chore schedule literally into your school day, like, into your schedule. And, like, we do the habit stacking stuff with, you know, Atomic Habits where when we eat, it's chores.

And so with chores three times a day. And honestly, now that my now does my house always look perfect? No. We are living in it. I see books on there.

But I will say that my house is not filthy. It's never filthy. It's just because it's kind of built in. And and I love that, you know, there are people that are financially strapped that are, oh, man. I would love to afford a housekeeper.

I would love to afford, you know, this and that and the other. And I think that there there are, you know, there are creative ways to get that time back. Like, for example, when I was writing my book, I got on this meal plan thing where you it was actually like a cost people get on it for cost reasons. That wasn't my reason. I had to batch everything on Sundays, and it was this thing where you put all of the meats and the vegetables and all these and then you put them in bags.

Like, so, like, the meat's marinating, and then you put it in the fridge, and it's literally five dinners. I forget what it would the program was called. Anyway, but, it actually ended up saving us money, and that wasn't the reason why we did it. It was because I was writing a book at the time. But on Sundays, Scott and I, we just set aside time.

The kids had were expected to play independently, and Scott and I just did all the chopping and put it in. And, you know, even, like, with the vegetables, you put in the salt and pepper and olive oil. It actually tasted better because when we ended up putting it in the oven, it was, like, marinated in salt. But my point is is that we as sync if you're a single mom listening right now, if you are going through a really, really hard time, if you are a working mom, maybe you're the breadwinner and you're trying to homeschool your kids right now. There are homeschooling community.

Like, I know my twins are 11 now. Are you kidding? If they got invited over someone's house to be a mommy's helper. Like and I would say pay them $2, and they think that's a million dollars. Right?

Like Right. We can utilize this beautiful community that we have. You can even turn it you know, even a high school girl, you can turn it into a certificate of some sort or an internship or whatever. Right? And so one thing that I think is kind of an epiphany that I had is moms listening in terms of rest, like, in getting time back, decide what you hate doing.

Like, what do you really, really hate doing? Then figure out a way for someone else to do it. And, and, you know, one thing that that I really hate cleaning bathrooms.

Mhmm.

I just yeah. And so we just we I am very, very blessed that every other week, we have a crew come, and they clean my house from top to bottom. But let me tell you, doctor Joe, I I do not clean between their time. Like, I it's a boundary I've set for myself. Like, I don't even if my house doesn't look perfect, I just accept it.

Right? Every once in a while, I'll wipe down. If my kids have used my bathroom, and you know what happens when that happens is splatter. I mean

because one thing you touched on is looking at things that you don't like to do. And actually, in our clinic with our employees and our team, one that we've created these quadrants to be able to evaluate how do we get our team to be the most effective at what they do and bring who they are to the team. And so we've created these quadrants and we ask them to write out. And I would highly encourage every homeschool parent to do this for themselves, is write out, what do I do what am I doing that I enjoy doing? What am I doing that I don't enjoy doing?

What am I doing that I'm good at? And what am I doing that I'm not good at? And then kind of using that to evaluate, okay, I don't want to get rid of these things that I enjoy doing. If you enjoy spending time with your children, keep that on the list. You don't necessarily need to separate that and say, all right, I need somebody to come watch my children.

Maybe you need to keep that on your list and say, I don't enjoy cleaning the bathrooms, which who does? Right? But then saying, okay, who can do that for me? And so maybe creating these quadrants for yourself to say, let's keep on my quadrant what I enjoy doing, and I can add more into that quadrant as I take these things off. So I think creating that framework, is is something that can help, again, shift your time so that you're creating more time.

Man, that is so powerful. And, like, I was just thinking because we talk I haven't talked about it in this way, but I tell moms, even plan your homeschool this way. Yes. So, like, for example, I really do not like, enjoy, feel qualified in teaching math and science.

Mhmm.

And I also work full time, and I source them. I source those really well. Am I still a homeschooler? Yes. Am I still holding my kids accountable?

Yes. But am I actually teaching those actual lessons? No. I am not. Right?

And in terms of getting time back, can I tell you when I first started this, you know, sourcing my homeschooling a little bit more smartly, out of necessity because Christy Faith happened, and I kind of okay? Overnight. I have a job now. But I remember when Lincoln was on a class, I was like, I have forty five minutes right now. Like Mhmm.

Oh my goodness. So, yeah, I think in terms of just really evaluating and sourcing smartly, I just I just absolutely love it. We've touched on so much today. There is one really important thing that I want to get to that I think will be really valuable, and we don't need to spend much time on it, but I don't wanna leave without talking about it, is binge watching shows, scrolling on social media, is that rest because we crave it. We need a break.

Is that rest? Is that giving our brains what our brains need?

No. And the reason why is rest is not numbness. And scrolling social media, binge watching, that creates a numbness and a disconnect. Rest is actually a deep connection.

Woah. Okay. I don't think I've ever thought about it that way.

Mhmm. Yeah.

Screw It's an escape. It's not an escape. You're escaping with those other things.

Correct. You're escaping reality. You're disconnecting, disassociating, and you're saying, I am out of my life. And the worst thing that you can do is to get out of your life. And and if you feel the need for that, then you need to reengineer your life.

K? Now, there is the need for rest. There's not the need to disassociate from your life. So so it again, going to those those quadrants, like, you might need to reengineer what you're doing in life if you feel like I need to just completely separate myself from my life. But if you can say, okay, I need some rest.

I need to be go deep into who I am and set time to just be able to then just let your mind wander. And actually, I came across some really cool research that actually shows the, and it's based on the neurology, the best way to correct ADD, ADHD symptoms is by daydreaming. Which again, seems paradoxical. It's like, wait a second, you're telling me that being this distracted attention issue, the best thing to do that is to just have free mind time. And it's really cool.

And so actually, some of the homework that I assign with some of my developmental kiddos, especially like ADD, ADHD, is I say, okay, mom, you need to during your homeschool time, you actually need to schedule ten minutes where you just force them to look out the window. And especially when you're starting to really feel the squirreliness happening, you either send them outside to run around the house or just make them just stare out the window and get bored. And so that's where that Because what happens is the mind starts going and it starts exploring and it starts to get more creative and it starts to actually think. Instead of disconnecting and going numb and being told what to think, you're actually allowed to just let it wander and think. And so, yeah, so scrolling, binge watching, there is zero rest in that.

The rest actually comes from being disconnected or disassociated, or not disassociated, but disconnected from problem solving and being able to just let your mind go deep into some not surface level problem solving, but like solving world hunger, into some deep, deep philosophical underpinnings, which as a five year old kid are gonna look a whole lot different than as a 45 year old kid. So that's where looking at that is gonna look different at different ages and things like that. But just there there is a difference between scrolling and rest.

Okay. So then, this begs the question, because I'm thinking, okay. So I have a really, really high stress tolerance and high frustration tolerance. I mean, don't I mean, a lot of other areas are messed up, but I can tolerate a lot. I can go and I can go and I can go and I can go.

Why do I need rest? Why do we need this rest that you're talking about? Because I feel rested when I've gotten stuff done, which actually is not rest. That's a dopamine hit from Sure. Yeah.

But anyway Yeah. So yeah. But why convince me as the busy mom who's, like, doing a podcast every week, and I'm homeschooling my kids, and I'm going to conferences and all of this, who likes being busy? I enjoy it. I enjoy having things to think about.

Right? And I enjoy thinking about ideas, which is what we're doing right now. We're thinking about rest. But for someone who doesn't see the payoff necessarily, they see the more the payoff of getting it done rather than not getting something done. What would you say, like, from brain science?

We already know that if you're a Christian listening, the bible tells us we need it. But from your expertise, you know, as from the neurology aspect of it, why do humans need it?

That's a really good question, and that's a huge topic.

At the end.

I know. Right? Trying trying without giving any background or without giving any rationale why, I would say the number one reason why you need rest is it is it your aging, your brain will age significantly faster without rest. Without proper sleep, Probably, I would say other than physical activity, the number one modifying factor, and arguably it is the number one modifying factor for aging, for cognitive decline, for dementias, Alzheimer's, all of that. The number one modifiable risk factor is sleep and rest.

Okay. Yeah. And then based on everything you said up until now, also, I think that rest is the type of rest that you are talking about, this true rest that is involves connection and being present, it improves your quality of life.

A 100%.

Yeah. Yeah. Like, that enough. Right? I mean

Yes. In the short term, it will improve your quality of life. In the long term, it will both arguably extend and extend, I guess, the quality of your life, but your actual ability to be mentally there. Yeah. And so I grew up with a great grandma who had Alzheimer's, another grandma who had dementia.

Like, these things are scary in the background of saying, Oh, this is a genetic thing, right? I'm prone towards this. That's actually not true. Between different studies that you look at, between fifty percent and seventy percent of all dementias and most Alzheimer's cases can be prevented. And, again, arguably, number one risk factor for that is sleep and rest.

Wow.

And your ability to handle Again, you might have a heightened stress tolerance, but that stress is still affecting you on a metabolic standpoint and aging essentially boiling it down is a an increased metabolic demand over time.

Yes. Gotcha. Yes. And I'm feeling so because my answer is, oh, I need some rest. I'm I'm feeling a little tired.

Let's brew another cup of coffee. Okay. We're ready to get there. Okay. So you guys, okay.

Listen up right now. I want you all to hear, like, the future with doctor Joe, in terms of Christy Faith is he's already scheduled to teach master class in Thrive Homeschool Community. And that there were so many topics that you are amazing at. Just you you are such a wealth of information, and it it's just absolutely incredible. I it was hard for me to narrow down.

But in Thrive, you're gonna be doing an entire master class on self esteem because we all want that for our kids. And what is it how do we actually build that? And, like, the brain science behind it. And I love how you can blend you're so good at this, doctor Joe. You're good at blending, like, the science with the reality of life and, the practical aspects of that.

And I'm just so thankful that we got you to teach a master class in Thrive.

Well, I I blame that on my parents. That that's that's all their fault. So

Well and also, I wanna ask you too. You have written a children's book. I loved it. I love your children's book. I'm gonna put a link in the show notes.

Would you just in ten seconds, twenty seconds before I'd say the next thing that you do, would you just share what your children's book is about?

Yeah. It's the title is Distincts, and it's about getting outside and getting the stink off. It's something that my grandpa would always say to his 14 kids. My mom would say to her nine kids that whenever there was a struggle emotionally, it was go outside and get the stinks off. And so it's kind of written to that topic and the neurology there's neurology behind why you need to go outside and get the stinks off.

It's I I had a a fun time doing it. The illustrator was actually my cousin's daughter. And so I was able to it's all family related purse and so it's a very personal project to me on that.

Okay. Great. And we will put a link in the show notes directly to that particular book. And you work with patients. You are a practicing doctor.

Can you share what type of patients you work with kids and adults and what exactly you do? Because I asked you in the conference too, like, you work over Zoom? Like, could you help the mamas in our community? So would you share a little bit about how you help families?

Yeah. So so currently, our main focus so so I have fellowship training in both concussion rehab and in neurodevelopmental disorders. And so we work both with adults from some of the cognitive side of things, some of the rehab side that's necessary. We work oftentimes with kids. Currently, most of that is in person.

We are in the process of building out a virtual platform for that to work both on kind of sensory integration, visual training, things like that, and tying a lot of cognitive systems into those sensory networks. And yeah, so we, I said, we're in Iowa. We work primarily with in person. We do some telehealth, at least to help give guidance. And there are some other providers that are similar to what I do, have similar training.

And so we like to connect with people locally as much as possible. So we can be a resource that way. And then, once we get something built out virtually, we work with, yeah, anything from learning disorders to cognitive development, to actually kind of a niche that we're really forming unintentionally is more like behavioral, which is a, especially in the Christian realm or just in general, behavioral oftentimes is misunderstood and is either chalked up to, I'm not a good enough parent, or my child is disobedient and rebellious. And so working at something, looking at the neurology behind that, and a lot of that is very personal, again, because we had some struggles with a daughter of ours that turned out to be neurological dysregulation that was leading to emotional dysregulation. And so, that's a lot of what we do, is trying to help.

Ultimately, really, everything that we do comes from trying to find answers for ourselves personally. I was coaching high school football. That's when I got into concussion rehab. We had some personal issues in our family with development, and so that's why I did the developmental disorders. And so, God has kind of used that to then be able to say, All right, how can you provide that for others?

And then, How can you provide that beyond just your local community, but how can you expand that even across the world? So that's really kind of where we come from with that.

Yes. And I love that. And I remember at the conference, was telling sharing with you about my nephew who has PANDAS and how we were just relating on that where, any mom listening right now, if your child is currently experiencing concerning behaviors, please look at what could be happening in the brain before you label a child. And and maybe that child will start to feel shame. I know that that was one huge thing in terms of my nephew when he got PANDAS very young, and they found a great pediatrician in Boulder who specialized in PANDAS.

And the pediatrician was wonderful. And he's like, our my my biggest priority is to make sure that he doesn't live a life of shame. Because they have behaviors that they can't control, and it wasn't like, you know, your son's a sinner, or your son's demon possessed, or this or that or the other. And and so, anyway, that was just really great. And I loved connecting with you and your wife, Angie, on that particular thing.

And and actually, Joe, this weekend, I'm filming an episode. I'm in the middle of a series right now that's coming out. It's a six part series where I'm just sharing a little bit about my life and being a little bit more vulnerable. Mainly anyway, I won't go into why. The why is in episode 91, but one of the episodes is on why we left authoritarian parenting.

Mhmm.

And I'm gonna go there. And I'm gonna go there with corporal punishment, and my beliefs on that, and where we started, and where we are now. And so, I think that there's a lot a lot of growth that needs to happen Within myself, I'm coming from I'm healing. We are currently healing, and will be for a long time. So don't think this comes from a place of pride at all.

But I think there's been a lot of confusion, particularly, in the Christian culture regarding And

just to put a plug in for the master class even, that's part of we'll actually cover some of the neurology behind that. When we look at the neurology of self esteem and identity formation and and, again, looking at how the brain is behind that, even talking about, where does corporal punishment fit? Does it, authoritarian parenting, things like that. So, so we'll actually cover the neurology behind some of that.

Oh, awesome. Great. Yeah. And if you're curious, okay, what's the difference between a masterclass and a podcast episode? Well, the the difference between a podcast and a mod and a and a masterclass.

It's just a masterclass goes way deeper, very pointed problem solving, you know, the women in Thrive Homeschool Community, that is a paid community. If you wanna hear more about Thrive Homeschool Community, please it's not open all of the time. So if you're interested in being in Thrive Homeschool Community, which if you are a homeschool mom, you should be because this is the place where we are we try to be the best homeschooling moms that we can be, the best educators that we can be. We are a growth mindset girly place. And so if Thrive is closed right now, just please get on the wait list, and you'll be notified.

And the waitlisters always get the twenty four hours early or forty eight hours early. It depends on when you guys basically get a guaranteed spot when we do reopen. And I'm so thankful, doctor Joe, that you came on the show today to help us. I can't wait for that master class in Thrive Homeschool Community. Is there anything that you wanna leave us with that maybe you wanted to say and forgot to or a resource that we need to make sure that's in the show notes?

If I can just leave with with kind of just a personal encouragement or a personal exhortation is, I'm I'm a living example of homeschooling. Like, I truly my parents sacrificed for me to be who I am, where I am. And oftentimes, homeschooling parents, there's a lot of struggle of saying, Is it worth it? And what's the end product going to look like? Right?

Because and and I say that with parenting, you don't even know as a parent what the what if you're doing things right until it's too late to do anything about it. Right? The product's already done before you actually know if you're doing it right. And so if I can just be an encouragement to homeschooling parents out there that, not to toot my horn, but I am a product of what you are building. And so don't get discouraged that what's the future going to look like?

Keep pouring in. And and like we talked about, the principles that are found in scripture are being confirmed in science. And and and so if you continue to go back to what does scripture say about something, that's honestly the best filter of what I should do. And and so if you can align yourself by those principles, the end product, while not guaranteed, is worth the sacrifice and is worth the building.

Oh, man. So, yeah, thanks for we're gonna end on me crying. Thank But, no, that is really encouraging. And that is so true that we don't we don't know the end result. It's like we're just figuring this out along the way.

And I'm sure you would be the first to say, I'm sure your parents are great, but they weren't perfect. Right? Mhmm. Yeah. Yeah.

So and I think we put that pressure on ourselves just because we're involved in every aspect of our kids' lives. So mamas, hang in there. I hope this podcast today encouraged you incredibly. That's the whole point. That is our why.

Thank you so much, Joe, for coming on the show today.

Thank you. Thank you for the invite. I I love it's fun.

Alright. We'll see you next time. You have my heart.