WEBVTT 00:06.330 --> 00:10.770 Gary: The Medieval Archives Podcast Episode. 84. 00:18.510 --> 00:21.690 Welcome back to the Medieval Archives podcast, the podcast 00:21.690 --> 00:24.810 for medieval news history and entertainment. I'm your host, 00:24.810 --> 00:28.830 Gary, a.k.a. the Archivist. In today's episode, we are going to 00:28.830 --> 00:31.620 discuss the medieval night and we have a special guest, 00:31.680 --> 00:35.310 Christopher Gravett. Now, Chris is a former senior curator at 00:35.310 --> 00:38.340 the Royal Armouries at the Tower of London, and he's also served 00:38.340 --> 00:41.220 as a historical advisor on numerous TV shows and movies. 00:42.540 --> 00:45.090 During our talk, he shares some fascinating behind the scenes 00:45.090 --> 00:47.970 moments from those movies and reveals how much TV and movie 00:47.970 --> 00:51.540 producers actually listened to the historical advisors. Even 00:51.540 --> 00:54.270 comedian and medieval historian Terry Jones asked Chris for 00:54.270 --> 00:57.030 advice when writing his books. And the majority of our 00:57.030 --> 01:00.510 conversation revolves around Chris's new book titled The 01:00.510 --> 01:03.960 Medieval Night, Available now. And we discuss all things 01:03.960 --> 01:06.630 knights with their training, weapons, armor and a whole lot 01:06.630 --> 01:11.100 more. If you have questions or comments or if you have a topic 01:11.100 --> 01:13.560 you're dying to hear on the show, send them over to podcast at 01:13.560 --> 01:16.260 medieval archives dot com or leave us a message on the 01:16.260 --> 01:17.100 voicemail line. 01:17.370 --> 01:23.580 7207221066. The show notes for this lesson are at medieval 01:23.580 --> 01:28.410 archives dot com slash 84. Okay, let's get into the talk with 01:28.410 --> 01:30.870 Chris and learn more about the medieval knights. 01:42.090 --> 01:44.820 Today we're joined by special guest Christopher Gravett. Chris 01:44.820 --> 01:47.490 is the former curator at the Royal Armouries at the Tower of 01:47.490 --> 01:51.480 London. He's been a history advisor on TV and movies and 01:51.480 --> 01:54.390 he's written several books on medieval warfare, medieval 01:54.390 --> 01:57.360 castles and medieval knights. Chris, welcome to the show and 01:57.360 --> 01:58.200 thanks for being here. 01:59.460 --> 02:00.090 Chris: My pleasure. 02:00.270 --> 02:02.860 Gary: So let's first start out with your background. What what 02:02.910 --> 02:05.310 got you into medieval knights? What got you interested in 02:05.310 --> 02:06.570 medieval history in general? 02:07.650 --> 02:12.090 Chris: Yeah, I think possibly because my mother was interested 02:12.090 --> 02:16.740 in history. So it was in this period she was interested in the 02:16.740 --> 02:19.770 Tudors and Stuarts, the Victorians. I remember when I 02:19.770 --> 02:22.260 was looking at the 02:24.570 --> 02:27.980 history Victoria History book at school was one of those 02:28.470 --> 02:33.800 children's books and it had a picture of a medieval all the 02:33.870 --> 02:34.880 equipment going on. 02:36.390 --> 02:39.960 Fascinating. Most of the teacher, come on, come on, write a little 02:40.350 --> 02:43.650 history on it, which was a bit unusual for I think it was about 02:43.650 --> 02:44.340 ten years of 02:46.350 --> 02:49.110 what was a rebel guide. So it obviously was sort of 02:49.110 --> 02:57.270 interesting overnight. And in 1966, when I was about 15, they 02:57.270 --> 03:01.710 had the big 900 fund obviously for the sacrifice things in the 03:02.010 --> 03:11.400 conquest and 300 or the de facto where we actually are going to 03:11.400 --> 03:15.090 price firms. I went to a parents 03:16.470 --> 03:20.910 rally, had really celebrations. I heard jousting, which was 03:21.120 --> 03:25.410 pretty rare, actually. So I think it must be what Hirst and 03:25.410 --> 03:27.930 the re-enactments of the Battle was. This is in the days when we 03:27.930 --> 03:30.780 didn't really have all of these re-enactments. I was already 03:30.780 --> 03:36.350 getting quite interested in that period and especially nice on 03:36.380 --> 03:38.160 nine, I think, for this 03:39.720 --> 03:45.240 captive market really beginning to hit TV programmes and the 03:45.240 --> 03:48.810 radio programme. And so the whole thing drew me and I think 03:48.810 --> 03:53.580 from then on, not just the writing side, mostly writing 03:53.580 --> 03:59.160 articles for motoring magazines, trying to model soldiers, you 03:59.160 --> 04:03.780 know, what people do, and just went down the history route and 04:03.780 --> 04:04.050 then. 04:04.650 --> 04:07.680 Gary: We went to university and then you did you get a job at 04:07.680 --> 04:10.470 the Royal Armouries right away or was that later on? 04:11.160 --> 04:16.080 Chris: I started off in the British Museum in fact erm which 04:16.080 --> 04:18.120 is really interesting. I mean you obviously you, you're 04:18.150 --> 04:22.020 allowed to get your hands on some very, very important things 04:22.020 --> 04:27.810 like the various chess pieces in Rome, in the parts are extremely 04:27.810 --> 04:33.150 interesting to anyone who likes very nice little military pieces, 04:33.690 --> 04:38.610 including the little pieces passing their rooms. Erm and I 04:38.610 --> 04:43.380 had a beautiful prior to 15th century going to where I, which 04:43.380 --> 04:47.940 was just carried in tournament where a lot of resilience leads 04:47.940 --> 04:53.250 the periods along with the scroll sign. Good luck or you 04:53.250 --> 04:58.640 will get, you know, which is the captive Arctic Circle. And 04:58.650 --> 05:01.140 although it was really interesting there was a lot of 05:01.140 --> 05:05.100 medieval material which was, it was magnificent, magnificent 05:05.100 --> 05:12.630 stuff. It was more my interest. So yes, I eventually saw the 05:12.630 --> 05:18.660 post of the Roman armories and transferred across. Eventually 05:18.660 --> 05:22.400 lucky enough to get a place and went off and became eventually 05:22.410 --> 05:23.360 senior curator. 05:25.050 --> 05:27.030 Gary: So for those who don't know, could you tell us a little 05:27.030 --> 05:30.090 bit what the Royal Armouries are and then as the curator, what 05:30.090 --> 05:32.370 your duties and responsibilities were? 05:33.210 --> 05:37.920 Chris: Yes, the Royal Arms was an institution that was at that 05:37.920 --> 05:41.520 time it was in the Tower of London, which I heard most 05:41.520 --> 05:47.670 people who heard about, you know, did not get it right. 05:49.410 --> 05:57.360 And that over displays in the tower. And I was one of the 05:57.360 --> 06:02.160 curators. Now, since springs displays and I have a major 06:02.160 --> 06:08.320 museum up in the north and I also went down to the south 06:08.520 --> 06:14.220 coast to at that time we had all the displays there and what kind 06:14.220 --> 06:18.120 of curator. And the Tate is really I mean, first of all, I 06:18.120 --> 06:21.210 see regard after the material, you know, the conservation 06:21.210 --> 06:24.980 officer, you know, looking after it in that sense. But you you 06:24.990 --> 06:30.390 have to look at the exhibits, show it off to the public 06:31.110 --> 06:36.060 discussion exhibitions. If you have to use force, you have to 06:36.210 --> 06:39.810 take visitors around. You have to show people the reserve 06:39.810 --> 06:42.750 collections in your home because you can't put everything on 06:42.750 --> 06:46.370 display. So you have to bring people who just want to go into. 06:46.740 --> 06:51.810 So they all have been in the back rooms of the furniture with 06:51.900 --> 06:57.810 serious students and the library staff in the same room you see 06:57.930 --> 07:01.770 on the paper about which books are written by the experts. And 07:01.770 --> 07:04.170 the people never heard of the expert 07:05.970 --> 07:11.190 lectures and good talks at the time inside the tower. So it's 07:11.190 --> 07:14.610 quite a varied room. Yeah. And you've got people coming in. You 07:14.610 --> 07:20.970 want to make comment. Oh, or from the makers. Okay. And what 07:20.970 --> 07:24.090 they do to the real thing. And then you definitely get the 07:24.090 --> 07:24.600 chance to 07:26.460 --> 07:32.770 show what they can do and we get some tips and so forth. And very 07:33.210 --> 07:35.370 good, really very, very cool. 07:35.550 --> 07:38.340 Gary: Sounds like there's a of a bunch of things that you could 07:38.340 --> 07:40.920 be doing on a day to day basis that, you know, keeps it 07:40.920 --> 07:43.260 interesting without doing the same thing over and over. 07:44.220 --> 07:45.120 Chris: Oh yes. Erm. 07:45.420 --> 07:48.200 Gary: Are there any famous pieces of armour from, you know, 07:48.450 --> 07:51.570 kings throughout the Middle Ages or anything like that in the 07:51.570 --> 07:52.440 Royal Armouries. 07:53.430 --> 07:57.670 Chris: Lots of pieces, a lot of the medieval material especially 07:57.690 --> 08:01.620 in this country were removed of course by Henry VII because he 08:01.620 --> 08:07.610 wanted to upgrade his collection to be modern. So most possibly a 08:07.650 --> 08:12.780 lot of the equipment from the late into this country and of 08:12.780 --> 08:16.590 course is Henry's. So there are a lot of items from Henry 08:18.750 --> 08:19.080 post 08:21.090 --> 08:25.680 medieval equipment they consider in a sense to back into the 08:25.680 --> 08:30.300 collection to a good looking collection for the modern 08:31.020 --> 08:35.710 visitor. Very nice pieces. They're not native to our 08:35.730 --> 08:38.490 country, you know, they were the work here in the Middle Ages, if 08:38.490 --> 08:42.340 you like, and not a silver and swords and breadcrumbs. And so, 08:44.100 --> 08:48.750 yeah. So this is a very good job. It was a it was interesting when 08:48.750 --> 08:53.760 you give talks because a lot of the time with any case in regard 08:53.760 --> 08:59.070 to talks or lectures to international groups in the UK, 08:59.070 --> 09:03.390 talks like that you got to put through such as ornaments or 09:03.390 --> 09:06.900 something like that. You also give talks, ordinary people in 09:06.900 --> 09:10.920 history groups who didn't really know anything about the and then 09:10.920 --> 09:14.070 you'd sort of be talking to people who really had 09:14.070 --> 09:18.020 misconceptions, you know, they thought, All right, good. Tom No, 09:18.540 --> 09:21.060 you couldn't get a horse. That's occurring because it's the 09:21.300 --> 09:26.700 beginning of the notes and so forth. You have to sort of say, 09:26.700 --> 09:29.790 no, they didn't do that because you just because you were not 09:29.790 --> 09:36.300 getting on the horses and up not long ago. So it was it was it 09:36.300 --> 09:40.680 was quite a fun thing to do. And then quite often you find people 09:40.680 --> 09:44.220 would actually confess because they didn't really have any clue 09:44.220 --> 09:49.350 When you started exclaiming, you haven't moved because you grew 09:49.350 --> 09:54.480 so close contact with it and you realize how cleverly it was done 09:55.020 --> 09:58.080 so that people could move around. And it became an absolutely 09:58.140 --> 10:03.390 fascinating subject to teach you what what a great person. What 10:04.260 --> 10:10.560 sort of satisfaction out of teaching people what was capable 10:10.620 --> 10:14.730 of doing and how it was made. And I think we got a lot more 10:14.730 --> 10:17.730 respect for the of because I think a lot of people sort of 10:17.730 --> 10:21.240 blacksmiths put it together because they weren't practising, 10:21.300 --> 10:25.860 were highly skilled people that just took off actually to stay 10:25.860 --> 10:28.920 in, maintain something incredible. And when you've got 10:28.920 --> 10:33.060 something like a very expensive princely something or works of 10:33.060 --> 10:35.160 art, you know how to decorate. 10:36.180 --> 10:38.970 Gary: It with gold rivets and things like that going through 10:38.970 --> 10:39.720 them all. Yeah, 10:40.320 --> 10:44.990 Chris: books and decorators and gear. And so when you consider 10:45.010 --> 10:50.970 you can always sort of move a little slowly pivoting really, 10:50.970 --> 10:55.130 so that you can fit into a need. For example, if you think about 10:55.140 --> 10:59.180 if you build a new place and it creates a London, if you find 10:59.190 --> 11:03.750 your name, you could I suppose we can because that's the nature 11:03.750 --> 11:07.620 of what will happen. So you have two little plates flying over 11:07.620 --> 11:11.700 each other to fill that gap between the joints. And then 11:11.700 --> 11:14.240 when you straighten up, we've got to sort and tell them to 11:14.250 --> 11:19.530 close for who on earth we thought of when you when you 11:19.530 --> 11:21.960 were doing all of them. And then when you when you've been to 11:21.960 --> 11:24.960 hold on, you've got the same problem. Of course, the foreman 11:24.960 --> 11:28.830 wants to twist this work. It doesn't just need to burn. So 11:28.830 --> 11:33.030 you've got to have a special side in order to have to twist 11:33.070 --> 11:36.870 the rear over. So the very. 11:37.590 --> 11:39.780 Gary: Things you wouldn't think about when you're just putting 11:39.780 --> 11:40.710 out a suit of armor. 11:40.710 --> 11:46.020 Chris: Yeah. Even the fact that where the joints line, they 11:46.020 --> 11:49.970 might shortly overlapped away from the working point so that 11:49.970 --> 11:54.540 it wouldn't climb into the joints itself, so the joints 11:54.540 --> 11:58.230 would be going away from where it's coming. And then you have 11:58.230 --> 12:03.270 little restocks recall maybe where your throat is. Imagine 12:03.340 --> 12:07.500 you're wearing the sorts of derivatives on the breastplate 12:07.500 --> 12:10.800 so that if a weapon comes, getting disappointed, it's in 12:10.830 --> 12:14.090 that letter going over to the right from the current. 12:14.430 --> 12:16.470 Gary: Was the armors that you want, the ones that think about 12:16.470 --> 12:18.360 all those little things to keep you safe. 12:18.750 --> 12:21.270 Chris: And then people will say, well, this is a very heavy you 12:21.270 --> 12:25.230 know you through its abilities have use 24 occasions or 12:25.240 --> 12:25.870 something like that. 12:26.070 --> 12:26.970 Gary: So that's not too bad. 12:27.510 --> 12:30.630 Chris: Not too bad. Let's just say great. It's wonder of your 12:30.630 --> 12:35.280 body if you're the trained mind. I mean, you've got in the Army 12:35.280 --> 12:38.480 today carrying backpacks with you probably way more than that. 12:39.030 --> 12:40.980 Certainly World War Two, I think, are kind of. 12:41.880 --> 12:44.430 Gary: Yeah, some of those guys jumped in with almost 100 pounds 12:44.430 --> 12:44.940 of gear. 12:45.960 --> 12:49.520 Chris: Dinner on, which is far worse. And I mean, you know, the 12:49.620 --> 12:53.790 worst thing is that you're going to get home. Yeah, that's a 12:53.790 --> 12:57.930 problem because you can't get the heat away from your body. I 12:57.930 --> 13:00.090 think the most common thing we were asked is what's this 13:00.150 --> 13:06.320 practice on the trips? You know, from practice on the side, we're 13:06.350 --> 13:10.620 on the run and so on reflected on later on where you know, the 13:12.840 --> 13:15.330 was needed. So what is that is in some Victorian writings 13:17.310 --> 13:21.720 it's it was a stall for your lungs so that you could actually 13:22.890 --> 13:26.520 renew my contacts in the shop. You didn't go started on your 13:26.520 --> 13:30.180 own and it was called the lungs rest and it's not really 13:30.180 --> 13:33.980 addressed. Race is actually I race because the average person 13:34.260 --> 13:38.850 trying to stop what's going to become your own the number of 13:38.850 --> 13:41.450 times you bring the gun and people people that something 13:41.850 --> 13:45.660 strange brackets sticking out is kind of funny work sometimes you 13:45.660 --> 13:50.550 know reactions are getting in the gun. Yeah and I used to 13:51.240 --> 13:55.530 especially after the race moved up to experience most of the 13:55.530 --> 14:00.880 equipment went up to 37. And I studied in London and I became 14:00.900 --> 14:05.400 curator of the tapestries. We had not so much the medical 14:05.410 --> 14:08.040 equipment. We had to go sit in the yard sometimes, but we still 14:08.040 --> 14:12.750 carried on with the educational problem during dressing sessions. 14:13.260 --> 14:19.230 And so overnight, because they had a replica 15th century 14:19.230 --> 14:25.690 prints armour which just happened to fit no nice more. So 14:25.710 --> 14:30.600 we had a few drawbacks around the floor, just more restrictive 14:31.230 --> 14:37.170 and become sort of an ornament of it. And they made some more 14:37.710 --> 14:42.840 to fit on the wreath. And then we, we got some leggings and 14:43.770 --> 14:49.920 shoes and fitted on the Roman coins so that we could get all 14:49.920 --> 14:54.780 this put. All the work should be done with the guns put in so 14:54.780 --> 14:57.720 that we could do this all conquering, you know, because it 14:57.720 --> 15:03.360 wasn't very quick. We had all the metal paths. I remember we 15:03.360 --> 15:08.930 used to do three sessions in the gallery, but nobody's nice with 15:09.030 --> 15:12.870 to go through the of things which are not part of it. So 15:15.090 --> 15:18.830 we didn't decide to do it, but we used to dress. We would get 15:19.170 --> 15:24.300 ready with the top of some of the hundreds of points. We took 15:24.300 --> 15:29.400 about 10 minutes I suppose, to put it on, and then we come out 15:29.400 --> 15:33.090 some reflective books of report to them, and then we just talk 15:33.090 --> 15:37.230 through dressing things afterwards until it was 15:37.230 --> 15:40.500 completely covered, including the sword. All the men were 15:40.500 --> 15:44.860 demonstrating, you know, jumping up and down. And if I were lucky 15:44.860 --> 15:48.180 or on the ground, get up, because it was very, 15:50.250 --> 15:56.750 very, very cold. You know, this is this is a curator, is that 15:56.770 --> 16:01.380 that time was probably going on and trying to look straight or 16:01.380 --> 16:04.980 sit at the desk some of the time and walk on the floor and get up. 16:04.980 --> 16:05.600 In the full armor. 16:05.850 --> 16:08.370 Gary: So a trained night would have no problem doing things 16:08.370 --> 16:08.880 like that. 16:10.020 --> 16:11.700 Chris: And we used to sometimes dress 16:13.410 --> 16:16.200 girls from America. We used to have these interns from America, 16:16.200 --> 16:20.000 used to come and do some work at the town. At the end of the time, 16:20.010 --> 16:23.130 you used to get a little treat sometimes and be dressed in the 16:23.130 --> 16:26.610 elements of some sort. So if you want to get on the ground and 16:26.610 --> 16:31.380 see if you can get up and we used to get up and think, okay, 16:34.190 --> 16:39.740 I'm one one American, and I came up one time to have them to take 16:39.770 --> 16:43.910 to get an ornament. And we said about 10 minutes. He's gotten 16:43.920 --> 16:49.320 improvement, but he's got tanks. And so we took it all off to go. 16:49.920 --> 16:52.650 Are you ready? Every time? And it took us 10 minutes to 16:52.650 --> 16:53.820 complete the old mill. 16:54.480 --> 16:54.900 Gary: I said. 16:55.440 --> 17:00.120 Chris: Yeah, you're going to be old and topless with your crew 17:00.130 --> 17:04.110 all the time. Who took to Twitter to 10 minutes? 17:04.470 --> 17:05.430 Gary: That's not bad at all. 17:05.820 --> 17:08.390 Chris: You know, all the stuff that Shakespearean history 17:08.400 --> 17:11.570 person when it was two in the morning, whatever I would go 17:11.610 --> 17:15.290 myself. So it's a bit early in the day, 17:18.330 --> 17:21.810 but we're growing something which is good. But if you did it 17:21.810 --> 17:25.080 for a week and frankly it wasn't something I would throw, it is 17:25.120 --> 17:27.210 not very really. Yeah. 17:28.380 --> 17:29.630 Gary: You're ready to be out of armour. 17:30.180 --> 17:31.890 Chris: Have I got some? Yeah. 17:32.160 --> 17:32.850 Gary: That's excellent. 17:33.390 --> 17:37.320 Chris: We used to get some nice people on it. Met Terry Jones 17:37.320 --> 17:40.130 from Monty Python. Monty Python? Yeah. 17:40.530 --> 17:43.020 Gary: For being a comedian. He's an excellent comedian, but he's 17:43.260 --> 17:46.950 also an excellent historian and really takes the medieval times 17:47.190 --> 17:47.940 seriously. 17:47.940 --> 17:52.780 Chris: Yeah, Yeah, you're right. He was doing something. He's 17:53.020 --> 17:56.400 he's really right now. So he wants to use an image from a 17:56.400 --> 18:00.780 book. I checked the book and it wasn't the right period. It was 18:00.780 --> 18:05.990 a piece of armour. Yeah. So I'm back in the other room and 18:06.060 --> 18:08.130 cannot see always. And he's a. 18:09.190 --> 18:09.600 Gary: Nice. 18:10.680 --> 18:12.510 Chris: But kind of. Yeah. 18:13.350 --> 18:16.250 Gary: For Henry V or movie or. Yeah. 18:16.650 --> 18:22.020 Chris: Yeah. So he was doing a play and one of his complaints 18:22.710 --> 18:27.630 was to chat about the armour. And it's quite amusing because I 18:27.630 --> 18:32.480 said, we're talking about when men were wearing complete war 18:32.490 --> 18:36.720 torn words and uncovered the armour. It was all still on 18:36.720 --> 18:41.820 shirt. Yeah. So had try to look into funny. Some of you were. So 18:42.280 --> 18:45.970 how do you how would you know who was hiding? So if you were 18:46.010 --> 18:49.750 the hero of rank, you obviously had to ban all kinds of own 18:49.810 --> 18:52.980 subjects. You would have you find that very close story. You 18:52.980 --> 18:57.930 know, it's as if you remember the film. If you go some George 18:57.930 --> 19:00.530 Patton is not the coat of arms, but these kinds of troops. And 19:00.810 --> 19:05.040 he's galloping very close behind and very similar to some of his 19:05.040 --> 19:07.770 version. The other one was during the 19:11.830 --> 19:14.650 is was extremely gruesome. 19:16.620 --> 19:19.310 So for those who can yeah. 19:21.030 --> 19:25.120 Gary: Like it it brings us in to the other topic a few years ago 19:25.120 --> 19:28.020 and it's probably about ten or more now. There was a show in 19:28.020 --> 19:30.210 America here it was on the Discovery Channel called The 19:30.210 --> 19:34.650 Conquerors. And you were one of the historians on that show for 19:34.650 --> 19:38.280 at least one episode. I know. How did how does that come about? 19:38.280 --> 19:41.490 Did they contact you through your royal armouries? 19:41.880 --> 19:44.160 Chris: Because they come to you just through the armory. You 19:45.360 --> 19:49.080 spoke to us? I honestly can't remember. I'm pretty sure it 19:49.080 --> 19:54.510 must have been through the armories. We did get a lot of TV 19:54.870 --> 19:58.620 companies in Ireland from companies we contacted for 19:59.220 --> 20:02.470 information or whatever, and then sometimes they'd say, Why 20:02.500 --> 20:07.140 are you interested in doing part of the series? Or so? And so we 20:07.140 --> 20:09.210 did that particular programme. 20:09.490 --> 20:11.760 Gary: That the only one you were a part of, or have you done 20:11.940 --> 20:12.960 other TV shows? 20:13.290 --> 20:18.930 Chris: Yeah. Or did that one the first History Channel. I did one 20:18.930 --> 20:23.220 for the Yesterday channel, which was very similar. They did a 20:23.220 --> 20:26.440 very good a series called Instruments of Death, which is 20:26.670 --> 20:33.510 nice. And so they started to sort of talk to your group. So 20:33.510 --> 20:35.720 that was a good one. I did again, it was on 20:37.080 --> 20:41.220 1066, just happened between when they asked me to do it. Yeah. 20:41.940 --> 20:47.550 And, but yeah, we did. I did some Braveheart. I came to the 20:47.550 --> 20:53.250 Armouries convention and hoped two or three sessions to very 20:54.420 --> 21:02.940 close to the Roma specialists. We did a lot of work on costumes 21:02.940 --> 21:06.160 and armor. Let's say it was 40, 43. 21:06.180 --> 21:09.690 Gary: So you give all this expert advice to them and in the 21:09.690 --> 21:12.330 end it's a movie that they have to make and you know, they have 21:12.330 --> 21:15.090 budget constraints as well. So how much of your advice do they 21:15.090 --> 21:18.510 take and what the period looks like and what the armour or the 21:18.570 --> 21:19.740 clothing would look like? 21:20.500 --> 21:24.060 Chris: It's not because some, some of it they're almost 21:24.060 --> 21:31.650 forwards. Court Well, I'm sorry, I can't say a lot more. Yeah. 21:33.990 --> 21:36.360 Gary: So it's just whatever they had in the wardrobe at the time. 21:37.620 --> 21:43.590 Chris: Yeah. Then I can do this is what you do for her as well, 21:43.590 --> 21:46.420 which was nice to send me the list of all the currencies. Oh, 21:47.280 --> 21:51.780 so did the gang, Harry the Princess. You know, the level of 21:51.780 --> 21:57.810 interest in credit cards is usually so, so, so, so, so 21:57.840 --> 21:58.140 violent. 21:58.320 --> 21:59.960 Gary: Yeah. Or Marceau. 22:00.400 --> 22:05.430 Chris: Yeah, yeah, yeah. So it was a good starting point to do 22:06.300 --> 22:09.180 design to dress specifically. Most of us are designing the 22:09.180 --> 22:10.770 dress for the Princess of Wales. 22:12.850 --> 22:15.930 We didn't choose the heraldry, so it's quite nice. I think I 22:16.190 --> 22:22.230 would have liked to have exactly as own design because quite a 22:22.230 --> 22:26.160 few of the characters were fictional names, because it can 22:26.190 --> 22:30.290 come up with coats of arms and we can lose those. And one of 22:30.300 --> 22:36.950 them was a character called On the Bottom of the not so kind of 22:36.990 --> 22:43.260 different with what I would call So with all the girls. Yeah, I'm 22:43.260 --> 22:49.290 going to tell really you. It's perfect for me. It was a it was 22:49.290 --> 22:53.490 a good film, but obviously it's been criticised by historians 22:53.490 --> 22:56.370 who grew very authentic. 22:56.460 --> 23:00.390 Gary: Yeah, well for me there's a fine line between an enjoyable 23:00.390 --> 23:04.230 movie that's based on the historical period and if you get 23:04.350 --> 23:07.350 if you get too accurate, then it becomes a documentary and you 23:07.350 --> 23:09.780 don't have, you know, the blockbuster money or the 23:09.780 --> 23:14.580 blockbuster actors in it. So it's they want to make a movie 23:14.580 --> 23:17.760 that makes money and is, you know, action and and things like 23:17.760 --> 23:21.000 that. So it's always a fine line. They got to pick and choose what 23:21.000 --> 23:22.230 to be accurate about. 23:22.980 --> 23:25.350 Chris: This is it's you know, it's one of those things you you 23:25.350 --> 23:27.740 hope to be able to 23:29.580 --> 23:33.030 resist is a lot of fun when you're you're involved with it. 23:33.630 --> 23:38.310 Of course, you just have to take her to work. Yeah. I think a 23:38.520 --> 23:43.020 couple of years of summer, I got involved with Ivanhoe, which was 23:43.020 --> 23:47.030 a BBC series, which was I'm pretty sure it's been Simon 23:47.520 --> 23:50.210 straight. So at least it's some pretty good. 23:50.220 --> 23:51.260 Gary: Yeah, it's available. Yep. 23:51.930 --> 23:57.360 Chris: Even more than two series. Yeah, I did. I was actually the 23:57.370 --> 24:02.220 historical advisor on that nice trip, you know, that was. How do 24:02.250 --> 24:07.140 you get used to. Probably not used to coming on and you're 24:07.150 --> 24:11.970 looking very, very happily Richard. You, you're used to 24:11.970 --> 24:17.460 talking about 60% of the time. Drones are extremely nice. Yeah. 24:17.760 --> 24:22.710 Were very nice. Good was interesting thing to work on 24:22.710 --> 24:26.970 moments on the set because it was not how we were left or what 24:26.970 --> 24:31.520 was the jousting, which was fun. Yeah, we got a lot to do. It was, 24:31.540 --> 24:35.760 it was, it was supposed to be like 12th century movie using a 24:35.760 --> 24:39.100 two parter, which was new paintings of the 15th century or 24:39.390 --> 24:42.990 so, really be grammar. And then you got a book which was written, 24:42.990 --> 24:47.730 which was historically inaccurate, and you had to make 24:47.730 --> 24:50.760 it accurate without getting away from the book. But it was very 24:50.760 --> 24:55.830 enjoyable to read both. But it did you enjoy that? You got to 24:55.830 --> 24:59.960 meet the actors and, you know, James Coburn people obviously 25:00.630 --> 25:00.930 can. 25:01.800 --> 25:06.120 Gary: It's been the nineties, 1990s. I found a book, two books 25:06.120 --> 25:11.550 by Osprey Publishing. One was Hastings and 66 and one was 25:11.940 --> 25:16.320 Medieval Siege Weapons or Warfare, and both were written 25:16.320 --> 25:20.130 by you. And that was my introduction to, I guess, you 25:20.130 --> 25:24.510 and your books. So what made you want to share your knowledge 25:24.510 --> 25:28.380 through books after or probably while you were still working at 25:28.380 --> 25:29.280 the Royal Armouries? 25:30.340 --> 25:34.800 Chris: The work, I think because I been writing articles 25:36.480 --> 25:45.360 that I've seen, books were the to behind the books, you know, 25:45.510 --> 25:49.590 these huge books and not necessarily the sounds. And 25:49.950 --> 25:52.650 because as you say, your work, you haven't really got time to 25:52.650 --> 25:57.810 go instead of the academic works. So let's have a go. So I 25:57.810 --> 26:04.200 contacted the editor and went to see and in the end were 26:04.650 --> 26:08.730 commissioned to produce the first one, which was the German 26:08.730 --> 26:14.760 made me promise, okay, we need to produce that one. And then 26:15.810 --> 26:20.240 the next organ was the children's book, not Atonement, 26:20.460 --> 26:26.220 which has been of no interest and no return was brought to 26:26.220 --> 26:28.140 bear and works through your back. Yeah, 26:30.290 --> 26:34.230 I still do. Then I must say there are a lot better now than 26:34.230 --> 26:37.600 they used to be. And then I think we came up to one A 26:37.800 --> 26:39.240 probably. Yeah. 26:39.570 --> 26:43.530 Gary: So there was a show on the History Channel here a few years 26:43.530 --> 26:47.580 back called Full Metal Jousting. Oh, did you watch that? 26:47.580 --> 26:50.120 Chris: Yeah, I was very cringed. 26:50.130 --> 26:51.980 Gary: Every time you watch those guy is. 26:53.690 --> 26:58.470 Chris: Yeah. Yeah. It was very important but it's probably not 26:58.470 --> 27:02.160 dissimilar to some but it was interesting to watch what 27:02.160 --> 27:06.030 happened. Yeah, they actually tried it for real. 27:06.030 --> 27:09.060 Gary: Yeah. Yeah. So those guys, I don't think I think they 27:09.060 --> 27:10.680 walked away and they didn't do it again. 27:14.160 --> 27:17.910 Most of your books range in variety from different subjects, 27:17.910 --> 27:21.780 but a lot of them are on knights and medieval knights. What does 27:21.780 --> 27:25.080 it take to become a medieval knight? Do you have to be born 27:25.080 --> 27:28.890 as a prince? Do you know nobility, or can anybody become 27:28.890 --> 27:29.340 a knight? 27:30.480 --> 27:35.460 Chris: I mean. Oh yeah. Originally you were ten when it 27:35.460 --> 27:39.840 first started, so I imagine you would have been a soldier with 27:39.840 --> 27:46.140 enough money to have at least a horse and some reasonable armor 27:46.140 --> 27:51.180 because you're going right back to pre 66. You're into France. 27:51.840 --> 27:52.710 But the first couple of 27:54.790 --> 28:00.000 encounter when Knight was the recruiting and recruiting 28:00.420 --> 28:06.480 soldiers around them to protect the streets. Right. Right. And 28:06.480 --> 28:10.470 these were big men become what we call knights the Kosovars 28:10.740 --> 28:15.840 because they got most of the ship out because it was going to 28:15.840 --> 28:19.260 come to England with the conquests that did come through 28:19.260 --> 28:25.370 the Anglo-Saxon, because that's the words I use for serving and 28:25.380 --> 28:30.270 that's what you see these people. So you would you would have to 28:30.270 --> 28:35.820 have enough money to bring the least in possession of a horse 28:35.820 --> 28:38.880 and decent armor with a sword. 28:41.280 --> 28:46.110 And then that becomes more or less the standard too. So if you 28:46.110 --> 28:51.360 can have this amount of reward and of course you might go 28:51.360 --> 28:56.430 through the basic right up to the kingdom because the King's 28:56.430 --> 29:00.090 Knights as well. But of course in England, that's one aspect. 29:00.090 --> 29:04.720 In France you're going to bit more. It's got to always be like 29:04.720 --> 29:08.610 perhaps in Germany you could these certain points in history, 29:08.610 --> 29:11.160 all of this. So it's a bit different wherever you go in 29:11.160 --> 29:15.630 Europe, Then in England we become a 12th century into the 29:15.630 --> 29:25.140 13th, the 14th century, you can from the start to become sort of 29:25.740 --> 29:30.270 I suppose they start to themselves into government 29:30.390 --> 29:33.300 positions because they become free persons in the third 29:33.510 --> 29:38.730 country enough to become educated. They can become sort 29:38.730 --> 29:42.540 of more elevated in that position. And then once they 29:42.540 --> 29:47.850 start to earn money, then let's see, the three landed wealth 29:48.000 --> 29:50.610 becomes less important and monetary wealth becomes more 29:50.610 --> 29:54.210 important. Can we've got the money behind them and they can 29:54.260 --> 29:59.250 acquire not well. So as you start getting to the late of the 29:59.430 --> 30:02.730 increase, you're even getting people with peasant background 30:02.730 --> 30:06.120 that they can become lots and lots of the products on all 30:06.120 --> 30:10.410 parts of the you know, we've got the position, but they're not 30:10.410 --> 30:14.770 actually going out of it. So it's not an easy question, just 30:14.860 --> 30:18.960 answer. Yes, right. You were talking sort of being a scholar. 30:18.960 --> 30:21.340 It's not to saying, hey, somebody follows the box and 30:21.340 --> 30:22.240 then gets more and more. 30:22.260 --> 30:24.900 Gary: Yeah. So you just go apply for the job and get accepted. 30:25.600 --> 30:28.080 Chris: You get if you look at the temporary record schools and 30:28.080 --> 30:31.540 just think before noticing the citizens saying, you know, I 30:31.550 --> 30:36.270 know where all these people to, you know, you saw good 30:36.270 --> 30:39.900 backgrounds have been trying to become monks because that's not 30:39.900 --> 30:43.380 what you read on the real because if just going to be 30:43.380 --> 30:50.010 servants, you come separately. So you go crazy. Of course, as 30:50.010 --> 30:57.150 you go up in the ranks of scorns your friends converts as not to 30:57.570 --> 31:01.770 becomes expensive and becoming a Nikes and all the equipment 31:01.770 --> 31:06.000 becomes more expensive and then the actual process of becoming a 31:06.000 --> 31:12.420 monk through the act, not to renew the paraphernalia. So it's 31:12.420 --> 31:15.930 very expensive. And then the duties that you have as where we 31:15.930 --> 31:20.560 have to continue to show recruits the, you know, the 31:21.330 --> 31:24.690 accounts of your law degree or two thirds of parliament. When 31:24.690 --> 31:28.230 that starts up in the 13th century, more have to attend 31:28.230 --> 31:32.400 parliament. So you've got all these duties as well and people 31:32.400 --> 31:35.850 still think you not to be invited to living blooming year. 31:36.180 --> 31:41.850 So they stop talking. And their idea became this of the 13th 31:41.850 --> 31:46.530 century. The combatants thought so and we need need the record 31:46.780 --> 31:53.040 of the troops not see the troops. So we saw force ignites you know 31:53.040 --> 31:58.370 people come in come behind with a certain right. They must be 31:58.380 --> 32:01.620 nice and it's called destructive. Not good. We've got to be made 32:01.620 --> 32:05.490 into a not so as a result, of course, we have to become even. 32:05.550 --> 32:08.460 We'll be heard in the time of the results of what we do. You 32:08.460 --> 32:13.870 know, I think you might not like who's destroying these links 32:13.950 --> 32:18.270 suggests the story is concerned by that. It's being put into 32:18.300 --> 32:22.820 linked to public religion. And then of course, you know, so so 32:22.860 --> 32:25.290 sometimes you get these scores and you go through the Middle 32:25.290 --> 32:31.230 Ages, you never become knights.And the score becomes of whether an 32:31.230 --> 32:34.620 honourable ranking. So when you get scores, it's not so a 32:34.620 --> 32:39.300 perfectly good fighting me just not not because I don't. 32:39.300 --> 32:40.950 Gary: Want I don't want the responsibility. 32:41.700 --> 32:44.280 Chris: You know exactly. And then at the end of the Middle 32:44.280 --> 32:50.640 Ages and then later on they become the school or what do you 32:50.670 --> 32:54.530 think of as the country school? And I think this is probably if 32:54.580 --> 32:58.770 you're you do children's books, you find references that ones 32:58.770 --> 33:01.400 who were really looked at through cup drawn, you have the 33:01.410 --> 33:05.250 place, the school at the moment and that's a specific rank. Yeah. 33:05.340 --> 33:07.860 So there are four or 500 years of history. It doesn't stand 33:07.860 --> 33:09.660 still. Ye. 33:11.130 --> 33:14.040 Gary: In your research, did you ever come across one night that 33:14.040 --> 33:17.370 kind of stood out that maybe is your favourite night of all the 33:17.370 --> 33:18.150 ones you've seen. 33:19.560 --> 33:24.960 Chris: Or was right? William Marshall Yeah, because he was 33:24.960 --> 33:31.950 such, such a turn to come from with the landless youngest son 33:34.050 --> 33:37.410 River winding up his route into the ground is proved a pretty 33:37.410 --> 33:40.320 great achievement. You must agree. Yeah. 33:40.320 --> 33:43.470 Gary: He's got his. Hi whole biography is amazing. That's the 33:43.470 --> 33:46.290 way he started out and the way he finished up. He served four 33:46.290 --> 33:48.360 or five kings and then. 33:48.500 --> 33:51.560 Chris: And the stories going on. I mean, there's, you know, 33:51.570 --> 33:57.360 without without the biography, there is some very disquieting 33:58.200 --> 34:02.420 mixture. Right over the course of the early tournament 34:04.080 --> 34:07.980 because he attended so many children's records, a lot of his 34:07.980 --> 34:11.790 early money from ransoms from the tournament. So you get some 34:11.790 --> 34:17.010 of these these nice stories and you realize that chivalry is not 34:17.010 --> 34:22.080 what we think it's all about to, you know, having dinner in the 34:22.530 --> 34:26.460 during the tournament, your prize was one of the knights 34:26.730 --> 34:32.550 from the opposing side. Is this going on for some places like or 34:32.550 --> 34:37.020 just runs out holes in me and gives into his dinner companions 34:37.020 --> 34:40.120 and says here you are. Your girl is a 34:42.480 --> 34:43.360 girl who's broken. 34:45.920 --> 34:50.790 Then another time some of these these some singing in front of 34:50.790 --> 34:54.120 the ladies, waiting for the opposing team to come out. 34:54.120 --> 34:58.860 Because this is in the case of the Greek group. Back to them. 34:59.010 --> 35:03.870 You know, it seems hard to recall the jousting niceties. 35:03.870 --> 35:10.880 The Greeks started to come on loan and this John gruesome 35:11.370 --> 35:17.550 minstrel makes up a song. Vines is more forgiving. A good horse 35:18.750 --> 35:23.580 thief is the thing. The opponent starts to appear more just jumps 35:23.580 --> 35:27.840 on his horse and knocks one of his or gets to the mounts and 35:27.840 --> 35:31.670 brings in and gives into the minstrelsy. So, you know, the 35:31.680 --> 35:36.360 process of this is really through the good stuff. So he's 35:36.360 --> 35:40.830 obviously good, nice, if you know what I mean. In that sense, 35:41.910 --> 35:47.760 it was vulnerable in that sense in the eyes of period. But, you 35:48.140 --> 35:50.480 know, I think it's very similar to some of the things he's done, 35:50.620 --> 35:54.510 but it starts with going up from the night and is perfectly 35:54.750 --> 36:00.920 acceptable for many who takes the money. He goes off to 36:00.930 --> 36:06.500 further to 40 and gets captured as a young man. And Rebecca 36:06.510 --> 36:10.710 taking ransoms and brings him into the attention of the second. 36:10.710 --> 36:17.440 And then he's given the young King Henry for some college. And 36:17.460 --> 36:21.630 of course, he took some mental illness and he suffers at the 36:21.630 --> 36:26.620 foot of the counter from his home, uses this trick of hanging 36:26.640 --> 36:31.560 back the rebels 40 times and then rushing into a Christian 36:31.560 --> 36:35.280 school as he tries to make it that they're not really taking 36:35.280 --> 36:38.910 part at all within the young group or his group. And then he 36:38.910 --> 36:42.590 rushes in and takes it like a prisoner, which I think is not 36:42.600 --> 36:45.200 very sport and grisly in Scotland. 36:47.570 --> 36:52.420 But yeah, some of the courses like it goes off when the young 36:52.420 --> 36:57.870 king goes to the holy games, for the young King's wish comes back 36:58.380 --> 37:04.700 Henry to King Henry as a symbol gives him the address of order 37:04.760 --> 37:12.810 of his ability to burn your daughter, and then Henry dies. 37:13.590 --> 37:16.070 Richard The whole revolt takes him on through something 37:16.170 --> 37:21.630 opposing because it come against him just as where your son lives 37:21.630 --> 37:26.910 the whole time because you're such a warm person. And then the 37:27.440 --> 37:34.110 third is just great. It's all learned from that. Marriage 37:35.050 --> 37:40.920 eventually comes, and because of the marriage there is that also 37:40.920 --> 37:44.940 he gets the violence of his own family, becomes King's moral 37:44.940 --> 37:51.120 issue because of his brother. So there's an incredibly well. And 37:51.120 --> 37:54.750 then, of course, Richard dies, as you said, Remember Queen John 37:55.410 --> 37:59.730 comes and the queen negotiates with the barons within the realm. 38:01.170 --> 38:06.030 And then, of course, John dies, then to defeats the rebels and 38:06.030 --> 38:11.040 the French are listened to, the house pushes them out. So these 38:11.040 --> 38:11.970 regions under 38:14.970 --> 38:18.840 the third region, tycoon Henry becomes a tenant for 12 months 38:18.840 --> 38:23.580 and then goes in the temperature of the water. And I love your 38:23.580 --> 38:25.190 life. Written about some time. 38:25.440 --> 38:28.330 Gary: He did a lot of tournaments and you know, 38:28.440 --> 38:31.200 nowadays we see in kind of like about full metal jousting. The 38:31.200 --> 38:34.560 tournaments we see now are like these just high octane, high 38:34.560 --> 38:39.000 energy lances exploding and things like that. Was that what 38:39.000 --> 38:42.300 a medieval tournament was like or what what did a medieval 38:42.300 --> 38:43.230 tournament look like. 38:43.950 --> 38:47.670 Chris: When when they started? I mean, we've we've touched on 38:48.480 --> 38:53.430 pretty much women brutally starts to pick battles over 38:53.520 --> 38:56.520 morals of countries of the good luck was in a few of them in 38:56.520 --> 39:00.600 America we still have these things on cruise for cruise the 39:00.900 --> 39:04.030 coping mechanism themes of love is warmth. Yeah 39:05.790 --> 39:10.260 might be set over specific areas of crime. Two teams of knights 39:10.470 --> 39:15.060 careering around with foot soldiers and fatalities. So 39:15.060 --> 39:19.980 weapons are the really highly dangerous stuff. They were 39:20.520 --> 39:24.780 starting to be a bit more controlled, but this is in the 39:24.780 --> 39:29.970 12th century. We started being more controlled and you start to 39:29.970 --> 39:36.870 see people individually joust with Francis, the great practice 39:36.870 --> 39:40.110 with and this is what we started. Oh, that's really good for 39:40.110 --> 39:43.270 Batman. And of course you could get ransom. So it was great 39:44.850 --> 39:49.400 getting rich and finding a monster. He wanted to lord to 39:49.440 --> 39:52.070 tournament because this is where people come into. 39:54.550 --> 39:58.920 It was good. If you could fight singing, you could show his 39:58.920 --> 40:01.980 world from the beginning because your friends without being 40:01.980 --> 40:06.660 interfered with for work angles and risk became increasingly 40:06.660 --> 40:11.450 popular. Then people started using guns, Nazis, locomotives 40:12.000 --> 40:15.330 fitted with these chromed coronet crown points which 40:15.330 --> 40:19.770 spread through central point. So it was it's of course, of course 40:20.470 --> 40:25.020 the still dangerous. So very dangerous, very low barrier. 40:25.200 --> 40:29.940 It's all of still young from as I say. So if you have a powerful 40:29.940 --> 40:33.090 horse you can actually write down pretty much if you weren't 40:33.090 --> 40:38.310 careful. Kings used to abandon criminals because they feared 40:38.310 --> 40:41.970 that these are great places for people to come together. If we 40:41.970 --> 40:48.060 wanted to properly groom some of them to start with or didn't 40:48.060 --> 40:51.780 like them because they they said it took people away from where 40:51.790 --> 40:56.160 they wanted them to go in their own vehicles and disappear. Not 40:56.160 --> 41:00.420 at all, but very, very soon came around. And then you start to 41:00.420 --> 41:05.520 realize you're going to longer. These things can be very useful. 41:06.000 --> 41:06.780 First in your 41:08.830 --> 41:13.330 cosecant cycle, you can make your world can't hold that 41:13.500 --> 41:18.200 spectacle and they do become very, very vibration to this. 41:18.240 --> 41:19.320 They become more and more 41:21.030 --> 41:25.590 spectacular. You get these displays of people coming 41:25.590 --> 41:29.250 dressed in France in costumes, and you know, they were them 41:29.760 --> 41:33.000 very well. It even started in the tournament, not in the back 41:33.000 --> 41:39.390 of the hands. Announce the Lord is on the field is, my God, 41:39.690 --> 41:43.770 these are wearing bras and rampant. You know, girls raped 41:44.540 --> 41:48.630 you know, these things sort of take off in a big way and you 41:48.630 --> 41:53.500 get people wearing all sorts of gifts up erm know 41:54.870 --> 41:59.600 costumes and such. Erm you can sometimes actually sort out 41:59.610 --> 42:06.170 varieties and rules being set up so that you run so many runs of 42:06.180 --> 42:11.980 three or five equivalents that they might be required to do. So. 42:12.000 --> 42:18.340 The first was committed to judges, marshals in the this. So 42:18.360 --> 42:21.810 it's coming heads to that much more with rules and regulations. 42:22.350 --> 42:26.700 I think these programs and you might do this in your courses in 42:26.700 --> 42:29.040 respect your go lavish 42:30.570 --> 42:36.150 arrangements that you would sort of go out the mounts in these 42:36.540 --> 42:40.200 erm spectacles is going to take place in a certain place at a 42:40.200 --> 42:43.960 certain time, like about by chance maybe two or three, three 42:44.010 --> 42:49.060 one 6 seconds. So it's like a ticket to come to this. So the 42:49.080 --> 42:53.340 sacrifice place the certain time, some of the things are what we 42:53.340 --> 42:57.300 call round tables with the bicycle can now offer from the 42:57.430 --> 43:03.390 Windsor. I think I found great archaeological remains. Round 43:03.560 --> 43:03.870 table 43:05.830 --> 43:10.420 three re-enact not just the chance to decrease the cycle 43:10.420 --> 43:14.200 will resume present interest. There's lots of round table 43:14.330 --> 43:19.170 reasons I with the help of the court, has dome holding the 43:19.170 --> 43:25.650 panels where woman would hold a piece of ground against all 43:25.650 --> 43:31.650 comers and markets. If you truly want the function in the course 43:31.650 --> 43:33.960 of the shepherdess we took the shepherdess with a flock of 43:33.960 --> 43:38.130 sheep with became, you know, to be dressed up and the good 43:38.160 --> 43:45.120 nights, the children's elves and goodness knows, look all sorts 43:45.120 --> 43:49.860 of fancy items. Come on. So it was, it was all done for real 43:49.870 --> 43:53.130 extremes for this as time went on, 43:55.050 --> 43:59.990 Burgundy was a great place for it, which included all of our 44:00.000 --> 44:05.570 countries birds, foxes. We come from the Moroccan places. It was 44:05.600 --> 44:06.930 it was quite spectacular. 44:07.140 --> 44:10.320 Gary: And sounds like it evolved into kind of more of a like I 44:10.320 --> 44:12.960 say, a spectacular show, you know, an entertainment for 44:12.960 --> 44:14.070 everybody to enjoy. 44:15.120 --> 44:19.040 Chris: Yeah, it was it was it was still dangerous. I mean, the 44:19.330 --> 44:23.970 very turn to the 15th century, it was so possible for you to 44:24.270 --> 44:24.870 just 44:27.600 --> 44:31.500 sit out in the tunnels with show weapons if you wanted to show 44:31.560 --> 44:38.040 your skill or bravery. Yeah, you could even joust sieges, sieges 44:38.050 --> 44:42.450 with or, you know, the tests that we could go to a local 44:42.840 --> 44:47.160 person just on the cruise because we made some. 44:49.830 --> 44:52.500 So you could, you could still joust with assault weapons or 44:52.510 --> 44:56.190 drunk. And so then you could still just in your confusion, 44:56.190 --> 44:59.340 have to always joust with the barrier. You can walk now I 44:59.340 --> 45:05.160 still have to. Agree to the kind of rumbling the group from. 45:05.400 --> 45:10.320 There that was still part of the tournament. So this was all part 45:10.320 --> 45:15.140 of the whole spectacle, you know, jousting and various types of 45:15.150 --> 45:18.750 the Germans came up with lots of different courses, especially 45:18.760 --> 45:22.770 the 15th century. Maximilian had lots of different forms for 45:22.770 --> 45:26.880 different sorts of courses, some of them with exploding shields 45:26.880 --> 45:27.510 on screen. 45:28.410 --> 45:31.680 Gary: With the danger that's involved in the tournament, are 45:31.680 --> 45:36.300 there any recorded deaths of high ranking nobles that may 45:36.300 --> 45:38.970 have changed the course of history with them dying in a 45:38.970 --> 45:39.450 tournament? 45:40.870 --> 45:44.580 Chris: You know, some of them did. Coming from one of the 45:44.580 --> 45:53.310 schools sons was about on Geoffrey's front. 300 was near 45:53.310 --> 45:58.290 the castle going out to the period and was great, very king. 45:58.910 --> 46:05.460 So from version splinters from this is this is pre-school this 46:05.460 --> 46:09.060 is where the polka dots with the splinters I'll call it dangerous 46:09.060 --> 46:13.890 of course when the chances are very went into the hermits and 46:13.890 --> 46:18.300 they were really worried. Luckily some of them got to go 46:19.020 --> 46:22.840 under the second the cross was killed in the tournament. Part 46:22.970 --> 46:29.120 of the accident that the Romans again saw the through the guns 46:30.000 --> 46:31.660 could still be very, very dangerous. 46:31.710 --> 46:34.770 Gary: I can't imagine what the knight who ends up accidentally 46:34.980 --> 46:36.750 killing a king in a tournament. 46:38.690 --> 46:41.670 What's the repercussion? First the guilt and then, you know, is 46:41.670 --> 46:44.190 everyone out after her? 46:45.820 --> 46:46.300 Chris: Yeah. 46:47.790 --> 46:50.010 Gary: So besides tournaments, were they able to use their 46:50.010 --> 46:53.490 training and keep it honed? What did their training look like as 46:53.490 --> 46:56.610 they became a knight? Was it a lot of, you know, sword work? 46:56.610 --> 47:00.390 Was it a lot of combat sparring, things like that? Or how did 47:00.510 --> 47:04.080 train to become a I guess, a better knight or Knight? 47:05.130 --> 47:10.530 Chris: Yes. I mean, this is the is training with weapons to 47:10.530 --> 47:15.250 build up their muscles, really, and to get used to it. So they 47:15.710 --> 47:23.730 were trained double get used to the point where the power which 47:23.730 --> 47:30.650 is near post would track hacking your nerves like a train against 47:30.660 --> 47:34.820 other schools or was trying against not not second gear for 47:35.010 --> 47:40.740 the queen to probably see these really basic reconstructions 47:40.740 --> 47:44.210 which you know I could no longer be just a place for her where 47:44.540 --> 47:50.730 she can swing or pivoting. What were the vital organs which you 47:50.730 --> 47:55.500 control and stroke from those back to the lungs. You can from 47:55.520 --> 48:01.620 one another, not on foot with the shield. If you're going the 48:01.620 --> 48:05.850 lungs trying, looking for his food and you would go as a 48:05.850 --> 48:08.460 scorer, you would actually have to come to your right to back to 48:09.320 --> 48:12.350 the old tournament and you have to put in after the person who 48:12.360 --> 48:15.720 was injured. You have to get used to being in danger because 48:15.900 --> 48:19.520 you could do so much longer, you know, So. 48:20.640 --> 48:22.140 Gary: They got on the job training. 48:23.130 --> 48:26.200 Chris: You know, it wasn't just a courtyard piece. Please, time 48:26.220 --> 48:29.570 to do something. You got to go on the hunt within you. That's a 48:29.820 --> 48:32.820 if you're planning on what sort of opportunity you might have to 48:32.820 --> 48:36.620 dress in, you have to. It's like you got to learn how to on 48:37.080 --> 48:37.650 properly 48:40.080 --> 48:45.320 60 to 30. So you tactically then have to come up to you. And it 48:45.330 --> 48:48.120 was if the question the community believe in the name 48:48.120 --> 48:51.810 was coming from the cave because of the moment or things like 48:51.810 --> 48:55.890 that. So it was, you know, so go down the scale, the school as a 48:55.900 --> 49:01.230 code. Tell you what it is. I mean, this is something you 49:01.230 --> 49:05.440 couldn't. And you were skilled in doing this in front of your 49:05.520 --> 49:09.710 door. And it was all part of learning the duty in the minds 49:10.250 --> 49:11.340 of your rank. 49:11.700 --> 49:14.580 Gary: So it's more than just combat and swordplay. It's all 49:14.580 --> 49:18.300 the court etiquette and this that go into to be in the night. 49:18.630 --> 49:21.250 Chris: I think, you know, we're talking about sort of the 49:21.260 --> 49:24.660 ordeals of Martin period when we were talking about the Grecian 49:24.940 --> 49:33.480 mark Suffolk in the 12th century, sort of the coast is this kind 49:33.480 --> 49:36.720 of like William the Conqueror, because, you know, we're talking 49:36.720 --> 49:38.940 about the big scope of the period. 49:39.060 --> 49:41.430 Gary: They evolved a lot. But in the 300 year period. 49:41.820 --> 49:45.060 Chris: Yes, because we don't we don't really talk about chivalry 49:45.060 --> 49:49.050 as we understand this until really the 12th century, I 49:49.050 --> 49:52.950 suppose, at the earliest. Probably not to the later part 49:52.970 --> 49:54.330 of the 20th century. 49:54.330 --> 49:57.240 Gary: So we always know that a knight carries a sword. It's 49:57.240 --> 50:01.110 kind of their symbolic weapon. What other weapons would they 50:01.110 --> 50:04.260 carry into battle or just train with? 50:05.670 --> 50:08.250 Chris: Certainly the sword, obviously a double edged sword 50:08.250 --> 50:11.680 with the more pointed as you get more and more current to all 50:11.730 --> 50:15.660 that, because it's useful for thrusting into the joints, 50:16.710 --> 50:19.880 because if you try and cut the grass, it's just going to slide 50:19.920 --> 50:25.250 or something more sharp or shock would point to those. So 50:27.000 --> 50:32.790 and so your lances, if you're so nice, is because lace is a 50:32.790 --> 50:40.530 useful percussion where they would break into your normal 50:41.000 --> 50:46.590 career or your bones very modern, very like. And because mode is 50:46.590 --> 50:50.340 flexible, this is really the reason that people have a shield. 50:52.740 --> 50:57.630 You could pretty big shield to protect yourself, which always 50:57.630 --> 51:02.680 amuses me in some films where people wearing my shields being 51:02.910 --> 51:06.460 dangled away so somewhere will work the sword heroically. I 51:07.290 --> 51:11.240 think this was choreographed. I think if you were in a real room, 51:11.310 --> 51:15.510 move back to the country. Yeah, that's a nice reading of Sword 51:15.510 --> 51:18.510 even. And it didn't cut through the mail because nobody's is 51:18.510 --> 51:23.790 going to look straight into your body if you're going to sit and 51:23.820 --> 51:27.080 interact with the world in the European continent. Looking to 51:27.090 --> 51:27.750 the Atkinson, 51:29.610 --> 51:34.350 you know, it's got to do serious damage, which is why this sort 51:34.350 --> 51:39.830 of right or wrong, because it's solid protection as a sphere. 51:39.840 --> 51:42.420 And once you focus on the protection of the front, you 51:42.420 --> 51:46.200 don't need the shield. That's the reason you really don't have 51:46.200 --> 51:51.120 a shield. Sometimes the whole stack breaks for protection. So 51:51.120 --> 51:54.690 if you when you're not dressed with something where you got a 51:54.690 --> 51:59.490 shock of about 60 knows about crazy screen, if you haven't got 51:59.490 --> 52:02.190 the suit on, then you can use other weapons. So you can go the 52:02.280 --> 52:07.650 reverse or you can use it against Plato, because even if 52:07.650 --> 52:13.020 it doesn't come through internally, it can bend currents. 52:13.700 --> 52:18.680 And if we get function properly, that can lead to somebody from 52:18.780 --> 52:24.630 moving your body properly. Then you go back not from being hit 52:24.630 --> 52:29.210 on my head hurt, but I basically feel the helmet on could start 52:29.460 --> 52:33.120 off initially for them to get a second blow. Well, you really 52:34.440 --> 52:37.090 you've got access depending on what period we're talking about. 52:37.470 --> 52:41.920 Short axes for use on horseback, longer hind legs, as if you're 52:41.940 --> 52:47.100 on a cruise. And of course, once you don't use the shield, you've 52:47.100 --> 52:53.400 got two heads, right. So now you can use weapons Polacks complex, 52:54.660 --> 52:58.890 which is I'm not saying parallax, it's like Kovac's because it is 52:58.890 --> 53:03.750 cold from the pole crank the word for head, which is called 53:04.080 --> 53:04.950 pole Axe 53:06.820 --> 53:12.990 swinging burns, which is of course where Hope, which is very 53:12.990 --> 53:13.470 similar, 53:15.600 --> 53:19.590 doing swinging burns. And these can deliver incredibly powerful 53:19.590 --> 53:20.070 burns. 53:21.720 --> 53:27.810 Amazing. You've got some food for in tonight's photons combats 53:28.710 --> 53:33.810 against the Nazis. They often use a in combat you'll see they 53:33.810 --> 53:39.510 use your location see and turn your classical person who yeah. 53:40.800 --> 53:41.670 Gary: They look fancy. 53:43.230 --> 53:45.540 Chris: And you can really quite dangerous because if you're not 53:45.540 --> 53:47.340 careful swing rather yeah 53:49.540 --> 53:51.720 I think sometimes in the beginning of the time these 53:51.720 --> 53:55.620 things we tend to see that very often in various groups because 53:55.620 --> 54:00.120 I you know, I find quite often the place weapons where they 54:00.120 --> 54:04.660 have caused all colleagues who look back all the time. I come 54:04.690 --> 54:09.780 from functional. So I'm always a bit wary of these ones not and. 54:10.080 --> 54:13.380 Gary: And even one of the key pieces of equipment for the 54:13.380 --> 54:18.780 night is his horse. Was there a certain type of horse that they 54:18.780 --> 54:21.540 looked for? I mean, you obviously need something that 54:21.840 --> 54:26.250 can carry weight in this fast. So was there a specific breed 54:26.310 --> 54:27.440 that they looked at. 54:27.840 --> 54:32.460 Chris: In the were very, very used to ride over the course of 54:32.460 --> 54:37.950 the course because it was especially great for the 54:39.120 --> 54:44.190 orchestra, which was the other word for it was pretty close. It 54:44.250 --> 54:49.620 was to do with the right hand side, the right word comes from 54:50.100 --> 54:54.710 the motor. He means is because it was like on the right or not 54:54.960 --> 55:00.550 or what you could wants Congress to hear. But these were the the 55:00.570 --> 55:05.160 top breed horses used for the Tomlinson walker because they 55:05.160 --> 55:06.120 were specially great 55:07.920 --> 55:12.870 rider but also to be nimble. They're also trying to kick out 55:12.870 --> 55:17.670 some good bones. So you know, the last lap of the hooves. So 55:17.670 --> 55:21.990 yeah, but they were very colorful. So we think of because 55:22.620 --> 55:27.810 the natural elements of Survive horse always start with a full 55:27.810 --> 55:33.960 on for the rest of the competitions so we wouldn't show 55:33.960 --> 55:35.460 our hooves. We've got more 55:37.230 --> 55:41.520 tools to do. I think I just worked with Hunter more than 55:41.940 --> 55:47.070 Hunter Breed. So if you think of in that sort of size 55:48.870 --> 55:54.380 group, I wonder if he looks more than just is not quite over and 55:54.450 --> 55:59.370 we don't know our chances. We're we're, we're not expecting great 55:59.370 --> 56:01.340 horses even now. I'm very 56:04.710 --> 56:09.600 close. You know, obviously the frequencies are going to the 56:09.600 --> 56:15.000 best of the best of my kind of among these special breed horses 56:15.000 --> 56:15.320 means. 56:15.760 --> 56:18.570 Gary: That you brought up a good point. The horse is kind of a 56:18.570 --> 56:23.100 vulnerable piece. And then they they had to armor it because the 56:23.100 --> 56:26.820 knight was armored, too. So when did they decide to put armor on 56:26.820 --> 56:27.420 a horse? 56:28.830 --> 56:33.030 Chris: Surprisingly, wasn't so. But I'm pretty stoked to see the 56:33.030 --> 56:37.980 very earliest possible creases. And even that's just really 56:38.460 --> 56:40.200 possibly a little bit survival 56:43.740 --> 56:47.690 rate in the 13th century. So it's we covered and you can see 56:47.700 --> 56:52.980 some definitely parts of Mon which must be pretty good. Yeah. 56:53.520 --> 56:57.570 My it isn't as heavy as it's possibly sometimes thought to be 56:57.600 --> 57:01.680 because a lot of the water has been like too thick and so it 57:01.680 --> 57:05.640 becomes too much, too heavy. You put it all together later, you 57:05.640 --> 57:11.010 go right to the civil rights of the crews. It's heavy when you 57:11.010 --> 57:14.670 hold it, when you put it on, can spread out. You know, your 57:14.700 --> 57:18.020 shoulders are more aggressive. I think people are surprisingly 57:18.030 --> 57:21.150 good, you know, I think good, good. Almost, if I can 57:23.010 --> 57:29.070 tomorrow. But so obviously, a horse is a big object. It's very, 57:29.100 --> 57:32.040 very hot. So this kind of course is, of course, as good as mine. 57:33.300 --> 57:37.980 I don't think it was a hugely common thing to see horses 57:37.980 --> 57:42.290 covered in mud. You didn't read about it, but a lot of them are 57:42.300 --> 57:45.750 wearing these comparisons across, the carcasses and possibly they 57:45.750 --> 57:49.530 were painted. But even the cloth itself is going to catch things 57:49.530 --> 57:54.960 in its homes as well as being very they're not to absorb the 57:54.960 --> 57:59.400 sweat of the horse. So certainly in the 12th century, you start 57:59.400 --> 58:04.710 to see little bits of comparison. So come to the horse in the 13th 58:04.710 --> 58:08.760 century, you start to get full comparisons from hunting to 58:08.770 --> 58:14.070 pieces or horses. So you wouldn't you would say you 58:14.070 --> 58:19.710 really seriously stole. You start to see the overhead poking 58:20.040 --> 58:26.100 from the 13th century and then it gets frenzied. The horses 58:26.250 --> 58:31.890 start to appear more so in the 14th century, the 15th century 58:31.890 --> 58:35.970 stones against the concrete homes which are pretty rare 58:35.970 --> 58:40.500 because it's a very expensive. Most people tend to have the 58:40.860 --> 58:45.990 sacrament of the horses known as the full length and anything at 58:45.990 --> 58:52.020 the front of the chest or the most great replica, mostly with 58:52.050 --> 58:56.040 her for the side. Yeah, you'd have to be extremely run off to 58:56.040 --> 58:59.370 have a sort of the king's opening. 58:59.760 --> 59:01.890 Gary: I got to imagine the horses get weighed down pretty 59:01.890 --> 59:05.070 heavily with the knight, the saddle and then all their armor. 59:05.900 --> 59:10.140 Chris: I mean, you know, we've worked enormously with endurance. 59:10.440 --> 59:16.740 The bomber, which was paraded on the surprise news of hugely 59:16.740 --> 59:22.980 heavy use for horses. It's clear you run these pieces off. We 59:22.980 --> 59:28.260 work massively, I suppose, through an honourable friend who 59:28.260 --> 59:28.830 thought that 59:30.900 --> 59:32.520 it's probably a bit like the carriage. 59:32.640 --> 59:36.030 Gary: So once they went out on campaign and war started, what 59:36.030 --> 59:38.640 was their life like out on campaign? You kind of touched it 59:38.640 --> 59:42.390 briefly. What bits of boredom they would call a truce and 59:42.390 --> 59:47.370 joust. But was a campaign maybe like an average typical campaign 59:47.370 --> 59:47.790 looked like. 59:49.080 --> 59:54.730 Chris: Well usually during the months. WINTERS Yeah, you're up 59:54.750 --> 59:59.550 to three. Okay. And the hunters so that she was stuck in the 59:59.550 --> 01:00:03.870 siege but wasn't the campaigning season. So it would have to be 01:00:03.870 --> 01:00:09.690 decent weather to do it. I mean, if you're if you're unfortunate, 01:00:09.690 --> 01:00:13.660 like a battle thousand, you're going to be around 15th century. 01:00:13.680 --> 01:00:16.680 You're going to be stuck in this in a blizzard full of tobacco, 01:00:16.680 --> 01:00:18.360 which is not the best of 01:00:20.520 --> 01:00:23.580 group. So generally speaking, it's going to be lots of weather. 01:00:24.810 --> 01:00:28.910 I mean, most campaigns like Roman came through the Citadel, 01:00:28.950 --> 01:00:32.130 their whole homes. You didn't fight back because these the 01:00:32.150 --> 01:00:32.670 horribly 01:00:33.780 --> 01:00:38.880 unpredictable. If you lost, you could really get a real 01:00:40.140 --> 01:00:45.840 difficulty in the over including your lord. So the idea was he 01:00:45.840 --> 01:00:49.980 was going to upset the other person already destroying his 01:00:49.980 --> 01:00:54.330 crops, hurting the peasants, because that took away his 01:00:54.330 --> 01:00:58.230 livelihood and it was sucking him in the first round to the 01:00:58.230 --> 01:01:02.400 back lower because he couldn't protect his despised through his 01:01:02.400 --> 01:01:06.060 people. So so that was the easiest way to do it 01:01:07.890 --> 01:01:11.700 without actually going through yourself too much. Yeah, it was 01:01:11.960 --> 01:01:12.930 very sporting to 01:01:14.400 --> 01:01:19.140 come back soon. We could bring them the best way of doing it. 01:01:19.350 --> 01:01:24.690 It wasn't that profitable for you to to lot. And the best way 01:01:24.690 --> 01:01:31.550 of doing that was to actually take root. Who turned into 01:01:31.590 --> 01:01:35.550 something different. And, you know, I think the thing was, I 01:01:35.550 --> 01:01:41.640 mean, I didn't want people going to churches and things like that. 01:01:41.640 --> 01:01:45.600 So you could, you know, you could go on campaigns, you could 01:01:45.780 --> 01:01:50.340 you could besiege towns and cities. And depending on what 01:01:52.350 --> 01:01:55.600 order you were going with, wanting to do what. Was what was 01:01:56.310 --> 01:02:00.180 what was the upshot of this coming home was to go with. 01:02:00.180 --> 01:02:02.670 Gary: Them. And they had their their squires came out with them. 01:02:02.670 --> 01:02:04.140 Did they have a support staff? 01:02:04.500 --> 01:02:07.590 Chris: If you are puritan observer, you know you've got 01:02:07.590 --> 01:02:10.840 your horse. You're not going to be riding nuns. You got your 01:02:10.930 --> 01:02:18.780 whole York riding horse to score who? Squires Nonsense. Depending 01:02:18.780 --> 01:02:23.160 on who you're talking about, you've got very dependent arms 01:02:23.160 --> 01:02:27.660 and your retinue, which is in your retinue. If you're talking 01:02:27.870 --> 01:02:32.700 about 15th century riders and breakaway riding horses, you go 01:02:33.300 --> 01:02:35.360 packhorse. It may be carrying baggage 01:02:37.320 --> 01:02:41.970 remotely, wagons coming, but securing the on for there's all 01:02:42.010 --> 01:02:45.300 this kind of trying to look after your provisions. We've got 01:02:45.300 --> 01:02:50.940 to find some kind of landmines for people who weren't carrying 01:02:50.950 --> 01:02:51.310 more. 01:02:51.360 --> 01:02:54.270 Gary: The logistics have got to be incredible to get all those 01:02:54.270 --> 01:02:57.990 people you know they have armies of ten 20,000 people. And like 01:02:57.990 --> 01:03:00.860 you said, you got to have, you know, food and tents and water 01:03:00.870 --> 01:03:02.050 and, you know, things like that. 01:03:02.100 --> 01:03:05.340 Chris: Going out, looking for you're going to go from where 01:03:05.340 --> 01:03:06.630 they're going to the 10th. 01:03:06.810 --> 01:03:08.280 Gary: Quartermaster stayed busy. 01:03:11.190 --> 01:03:11.640 Chris: Yeah. 01:03:11.970 --> 01:03:14.250 Gary: So I put this out to all our listeners and we had a few 01:03:14.250 --> 01:03:17.040 questions come in and some we've answered. You know, they want to 01:03:17.040 --> 01:03:19.020 know like the weight of the armour, which I believe you said 01:03:19.020 --> 01:03:22.950 was about 25 kilos. But one of them that kind of goes to the 01:03:22.950 --> 01:03:28.080 whole fairy tale of a knight is the knight in shining armor. And 01:03:28.080 --> 01:03:32.430 so the question was, did knights polish their armor, was it truly 01:03:32.430 --> 01:03:35.910 shiny, or is that just kind of the myth of the fairy tale? 01:03:36.930 --> 01:03:42.810 Chris: There it was. Yeah. Yeah. Then you have to keep it pretty 01:03:42.810 --> 01:03:47.740 hard, right? It's got to be only when it's not in use, it's 01:03:47.770 --> 01:03:54.820 stored the gone, it's taken free from rust. And you're trust me, 01:03:54.820 --> 01:03:59.760 if you love seeing people wearing them and after a few 01:03:59.760 --> 01:04:03.240 hours, you're sweating. And then you take it off. For instance, 01:04:03.720 --> 01:04:06.890 this one's is going to be polishing. So a rubbing, you get 01:04:06.900 --> 01:04:11.080 that kind of. Yes. You know, this is great because you got to 01:04:11.090 --> 01:04:14.580 get the makeover as well. Of course, if you've been walking 01:04:14.940 --> 01:04:19.500 towards the conditions or forcing you to order which round 01:04:20.190 --> 01:04:23.130 you're going to work it all kind of because you want the surface 01:04:23.130 --> 01:04:28.130 to be smooth and slippery as possible because it's not as 01:04:28.140 --> 01:04:31.380 thick as people think it is. It's it's tricky in the middle 01:04:31.950 --> 01:04:36.150 where your heart is going to come around because the top of 01:04:36.150 --> 01:04:41.060 the where the stones are coming in down the arms and maybe 01:04:41.590 --> 01:04:46.140 through the sides, Rex is not going to be discreet in the 01:04:46.140 --> 01:04:51.620 metal because it's relying on a slippery surface to fight the 01:04:51.630 --> 01:04:54.480 points of light. So it's just give them time so that this 01:04:54.480 --> 01:05:00.030 looks so heavy. You got to layer once. Once it comes out, it 01:05:00.030 --> 01:05:05.510 becomes so good that you can punch through the armour to 01:05:05.520 --> 01:05:10.320 thicken the curtains and make it. So I think the people said, you 01:05:10.320 --> 01:05:14.520 don't need to worry. Most of the people at this time, I'm sure, 01:05:14.900 --> 01:05:20.040 are the most professional, nice, the most excitable, not so 01:05:20.040 --> 01:05:23.580 professional soldiers, because the most difficult looks to go 01:05:23.940 --> 01:05:27.750 with the do of officers for this to actually get to the later 01:05:27.750 --> 01:05:30.840 15th century. Normally since the 16th, 17th centuries, 01:05:33.270 --> 01:05:35.460 people just don't want to wear the all because they're wearing 01:05:35.460 --> 01:05:39.120 all the two breast lengths on top of the other. In the 16th 01:05:39.120 --> 01:05:43.830 century warrior, the first puts on quite heavy because they have 01:05:43.830 --> 01:05:48.600 to withstand the bullet and you get these proofed. But if you 01:05:48.600 --> 01:05:51.630 have a C, I have a couple of punched hole 01:05:53.010 --> 01:05:58.720 holograms in the pits where they bring proof to show that proof 01:05:58.890 --> 01:05:59.260 against to. 01:05:59.550 --> 01:06:00.210 Gary: Test them out. 01:06:00.210 --> 01:06:03.300 Chris: Make sure this recognises a very well this one stopping 01:06:03.300 --> 01:06:08.190 further. Yeah. Really. You know you're nervous. This is a 01:06:08.190 --> 01:06:12.930 problem. You know, it doesn't matter how much you pull. It's 01:06:12.930 --> 01:06:14.970 not sort of all the stuff, you know. 01:06:16.860 --> 01:06:19.890 So the gradient was trying to produce armor. That's good 01:06:19.890 --> 01:06:23.430 enough to stop her boots and also good enough to stop the 01:06:23.430 --> 01:06:25.470 sword in the current. Yeah. 01:06:25.920 --> 01:06:26.610 Gary: One of the other. 01:06:27.960 --> 01:06:28.550 Chris: One of your. 01:06:28.920 --> 01:06:31.650 Gary: Different kind of force. I guess it the the the bullet 01:06:31.650 --> 01:06:35.700 force and the piercing force. Yeah. Your knights were all 01:06:35.700 --> 01:06:38.310 through the Middle Ages and that's kind of what we think of 01:06:38.310 --> 01:06:41.790 a knight is that you know, iconic medieval knights. When 01:06:41.790 --> 01:06:43.800 did the decline start for knights. 01:06:45.340 --> 01:06:48.640 Chris: Was probably already starting with the 15th, 15th 01:06:48.690 --> 01:06:50.780 century. The 01:06:53.080 --> 01:06:57.660 by the 15th century Britain that started out with a concrete, 01:06:57.660 --> 01:07:01.500 sturdy wooden, theoretically solid crowns. And theoretically 01:07:02.280 --> 01:07:08.400 over those 200 those the down of that 1500. Theoretically, yeah. 01:07:09.780 --> 01:07:15.030 And that was that was that was the next six and about to 90 01:07:15.030 --> 01:07:22.140 something like 34 and 24 Knights of Service and others who were 01:07:22.140 --> 01:07:29.890 too sick to drink often anymore. Let's have a go. Yeah. So the 01:07:29.910 --> 01:07:35.550 thought of the circle for the 15th century was used to the 01:07:35.550 --> 01:07:41.400 case where the five or 10%, the only was probably going 01:07:43.140 --> 01:07:46.800 through two branches and the rest of the times. I'm not 01:07:46.800 --> 01:07:52.590 saying that was a lot on that. It's also not for the Knights of 01:07:52.590 --> 01:07:56.870 the Round because parts of 15th century might be 8 to 1 of them 01:07:56.960 --> 01:08:02.760 personally broken, including other ranks. So carrying a bar 01:08:02.790 --> 01:08:09.720 in the ranks and that one person was not one of the race was made 01:08:09.720 --> 01:08:14.000 of tomes regret not necessarily knights could be scores could be 01:08:14.820 --> 01:08:19.140 progression with Holmes. So it was going down because there was 01:08:19.350 --> 01:08:24.390 this increase in civil our such as murders occurring. This 01:08:24.390 --> 01:08:29.670 wasn't the place that often very modern humans the things that 01:08:29.670 --> 01:08:36.120 came out some kind of interest in work which you know hoping to 01:08:36.120 --> 01:08:43.200 sort of spur people to come here again, drinks chivalric heroes. 01:08:44.100 --> 01:08:47.280 They just go looking. They just become more interested in 01:08:47.280 --> 01:08:51.560 looking after their strengths. And I think by this time, this 01:08:51.570 --> 01:08:51.690 is 01:08:53.250 --> 01:08:57.120 something that professionals do with it. They can go to the wars 01:08:57.120 --> 01:09:01.590 and the competitors taking over much more quickly, moving 01:09:02.490 --> 01:09:04.540 swiftly, hand over to kind of. 01:09:04.550 --> 01:09:06.870 Gary: Move the warfare changed, which kind of. 01:09:07.690 --> 01:09:10.350 Chris: Folks were coming up. Much more on the continent. And 01:09:10.830 --> 01:09:15.270 now in England you can get sort of pull information to the loss 01:09:15.270 --> 01:09:20.640 of this to to go to the right to come to you yourself with the 01:09:20.640 --> 01:09:21.780 armour against the bullets. 01:09:22.020 --> 01:09:24.690 Gary: Yeah. Everything they knew and trained for was different on 01:09:24.690 --> 01:09:26.250 the on the battlefield. So yeah. 01:09:26.970 --> 01:09:32.940 Chris: You just literally the captain if you were to so yeah I 01:09:32.940 --> 01:09:36.390 was already into chronic declines into the 16th 16th 01:09:36.390 --> 01:09:42.390 century and the gentleman is now coming up with the idea of the 01:09:42.390 --> 01:09:51.390 Renaissance man that's starting to become a sort of well, he was 01:09:51.390 --> 01:09:56.550 returning to the spa to talk about going to court, not to 01:09:56.550 --> 01:10:00.480 start by a here on the battlefield. And that's the 01:10:00.660 --> 01:10:04.770 gentleman, renaissance gentleman. You know, that's the future. 01:10:05.220 --> 01:10:07.350 Gary: And that's kind of our know today. We still have 01:10:07.350 --> 01:10:10.470 knights, you know, and it's more of an honorary title. 01:10:10.470 --> 01:10:14.400 Chris: But there's still this you know, there still is The 01:10:14.400 --> 01:10:19.830 rank and privilege of some of the issues is only from what we 01:10:19.830 --> 01:10:23.700 do. You know, as you said, nowadays, it's just because of 01:10:23.700 --> 01:10:27.630 over movement than it was recognition of service. 01:10:27.900 --> 01:10:30.180 Gary: So your new book, The Medieval Knight, I have it here. 01:10:30.180 --> 01:10:34.980 It's it's a fascinating book and it covers through about 300 01:10:34.980 --> 01:10:38.090 years or so of, you know, the evolution of the knight. It's 01:10:38.130 --> 01:10:41.070 half of the the fun of reading this book is the pictures that 01:10:41.070 --> 01:10:44.370 are included in it. I think if you get the physical book and 01:10:44.370 --> 01:10:48.360 get the pictures with it of the armor and the swords and some of 01:10:48.360 --> 01:10:52.620 the old manuscript pictures. So it's really well done in the 01:10:52.620 --> 01:10:56.180 pictures. It just helps enunciate what you're explaining 01:10:56.190 --> 01:10:57.150 and what we're seeing. 01:10:59.160 --> 01:11:02.610 Chris: I mean, I was always for manuscript specimens. Yeah, 01:11:03.600 --> 01:11:06.600 especially especially when it's a character. You don't have a 01:11:06.600 --> 01:11:11.820 lot of surviving almost to corroborate with you. But work 01:11:11.820 --> 01:11:16.200 out from the manuscripts what's the required for. And that's a 01:11:16.200 --> 01:11:19.520 fascinating experience here. 01:11:20.010 --> 01:11:22.260 Gary: So your new book is The Medieval Knight, and it's 01:11:22.260 --> 01:11:25.620 available now in bookstores and it's definitely available on 01:11:25.620 --> 01:11:28.980 Amazon. You can get it off of Osprey's website. So I'd like to 01:11:28.980 --> 01:11:31.770 thank you for being on the show. It was a great time. Thank you. 01:11:31.770 --> 01:11:32.310 Appreciate it. 01:11:33.840 --> 01:11:34.590 Chris: P to be here. 01:11:45.300 --> 01:11:47.730 Gary: I like to think, Kristin, for taking the time to talk to 01:11:47.730 --> 01:11:50.880 us about medieval knights and his book, The Medieval Knight, 01:11:51.270 --> 01:11:54.000 and also I think it Osprey publishing for setting up the 01:11:54.000 --> 01:11:57.030 meeting. Now, as I mentioned at the end, the book is available 01:11:57.030 --> 01:12:01.020 now and is a must buy for any medievalist. It's a fantastic 01:12:01.020 --> 01:12:04.470 reference on knights, weapons and armour over a 300 year 01:12:04.470 --> 01:12:07.650 period. Even writers of historical fiction or fantasy 01:12:07.650 --> 01:12:11.040 would benefit from this book, and the pictures are amazing and 01:12:11.040 --> 01:12:13.410 in full color. This is definitely a book you're going 01:12:13.410 --> 01:12:16.680 to want to buy the physical copy. If you're looking for a last 01:12:16.680 --> 01:12:18.930 minute gift for the medievalist in your life, or if you have 01:12:18.930 --> 01:12:21.720 gift money ready to spend, look no further than The Medieval 01:12:21.720 --> 01:12:24.510 Knight. By Christopher Gravett. I have links to the book in the 01:12:24.510 --> 01:12:29.310 show Notes at medieval archives dot com slash A4. Send your 01:12:29.310 --> 01:12:32.010 comments and questions to podcasts at medieval archives 01:12:32.010 --> 01:12:35.340 dot com. 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