Josh: The people at college, I think, we want to learn it. That's why we're here. We're either going in debt for it or we're paying a lot of money for it. It's not something we don't have to do.
Narrator: This is the Transform Your Teaching Podcast. The Transform Your Teaching Podcast is a service of the Center for Teaching and Learning at Cedarville University in Cedarville, Ohio.
Ryan: Hello, and welcome to this episode of Transform Your Teaching. In today's episode, Dr. Rob McDole and Dr. Jared Pyles chat with two students who talk about their experience and life outside of the classroom. Thanks for joining us.
Rob: Well, Jared, we have an opportunity to do something a little different, but kind of the same things that we've done with students in the past. Yeah. Mhmm. And this one's on motivation. Last time, we talked with some folks about how they're using AI.
Jared: Right.
Rob: This time though, we really are looking on what's going outside the classroom.
Josh: Mhmm.
Rob: And so we've got a couple of guests with us today who are current students, and I'll let them introduce themselves. So
Jared: Just do first name, major, and I guess that's it. Unless that's something else. Year? Or is that Yeah. Year is fine.
Do that.
Josh (Mater): My name is Josh. I'm a in my junior year of the five year MDiv program.
Josh: My name is also Josh, and I'm a video production major. What's your year? A sophomore.
Jared: Did you come in with credits already?
Josh: Yeah. A little bit.
Jared: So you were kind of did you come with credits too? Other Josh?
Josh (Mater): Yes. I
Jared: did. This is going to be a problem.
Rob: I told you that was say I said Josh 1, Josh two. You said,
Jared: why don't we just call Josh? Podcast. We have two people with the same name. So this will be exciting.
Rob: Okay. Very motivating.
Josh: How we
Rob: can do this. Okay. Choose nicknames.
Jared: Well, you've got Mater on the front of your Okay. So he's Mater. So you're Mater.
Josh: Okay.
Jared: That Josh is Mater.
Rob: Mater.
Jared: And then you can just be Josh. We just do Josh and other Josh, we need to refer to him as Mader. We'll do that. Well, thank you both for coming on to discuss motivation. This has been a series for Rob and I both where we have learned a lot.
I have learned a ton from this. And, as always, when we do series like this, we like to get student perspectives because what we see in the research and from those that do tons of research and produce articles and literature, they say certain things about students that then everyone adopts as well, that's gospel, best practices. Mhmm. And then sometimes we'll talk with students, they're like, yeah. That doesn't match with my experience at all.
So we like to do this to kinda get your perspectives on it. You guys are just plain normal
Rob: Everyday Josh's.
Jared: As far as everyday Josh's as far as we know. So but let's start and either of you can respond to this. What does a typical week look like for you guys outside of class? How about Josh goes?
Josh: Okay. Usually, if I'm not working in the morning, like, 08:00, I'll usually wait to get up probably till, like, nine because cause we have chapel every day. Other than that, after chapel, if I don't have a class, usually, I'll probably go back to the dorm for a while. And, like, if it's a day I work, if I get up earlier, I'll go back to the dorm, like, Tuesdays, Thursdays, and probably take a nap before my next class. And then most of the stuff I do is in the evening, like, after five or 06:00 is when I'll do more studying and homework and, I don't know, hang out with friends and stuff.
And usually that lasts until, I don't know, anywhere between, like, 11:00 at night to, like, 1AM every night.
Jared: So social life, some work, because you work here at in our department at CTL.
Rob: Yeah. Where do you do your studying?
Josh: Well, it depends on the semester. And I know that sounds weird, but, like, wherever your classes are. Like, I used to study in the library a lot more last semester because I had Spanish in there. But usually, it's, like, where my classes are. So right now, in Tyler, there's, like, a couple spots to study and then the library still, and then I guess the student center.
Jared: K. Other Josh slash Mater. Tell us what your typical week is outside of class.
Josh (Mater): My schedule differs for Monday, Wednesday, Friday, and Tuesday, Thursday with classes. But usually once I'm out of class, I'll go to the library till about, like, 03:00, and then I'll go either exercise or I work for grounds. So I'll go do that. And then after after exercising and work, I'll go to dinner with with some of my friends. And then after that, I normally go to the library.
There's a couple nights I have RA meetings or church events, but outside of that, it's usually just go to the library to get work done and then go back to the dorm about, like, ten, 10:30, and then see my friends for
Josh: a little bit before I go
Josh (Mater): to bed by somewhere between eleven and 11:30.
Jared: K.
Rob: Wow. That's early for Yeah.
Jared: For sure.
Josh: I mean, from
Rob: some of the other other folks that we've heard from, like, usually getting to bed before 11:30 in the dorm is pretty pretty hard. So that's pretty impressive.
Jared: Are your roommates and dorm mates respectful of your desire to go to bed at a decent time?
Josh (Mater): My roommate goes to bed at ten sharp every night, and then the rest of the guys in my hall are usually in bed before eleven. So So you're the late night one.
Josh: Yeah. Wow. So let me ask
Jared: you guys this, and we'll stick with you, Mater. How do these things you mentioned that happen outside the classroom influence your learning?
Josh (Mater): I try and use my outside of class, activities to supplement and to help me focus for the activities inside the classroom. It's like exercising and, like, working. The I try and structure those so that way they're at my my off times or when I'm less when I don't wanna do homework, or when I'm more tired. So I will do that to and then have enough energy to focus for the rest of the night. Also, just I try and structure, like, social time or time with friends or in church so that way I can have I know I have those times free every week, and that helps me to focus where I'm at and just be try and be present whether I'm doing school, in class, or with people, just trying to be present and have a structured schedule for that.
Jared: Is this something you had to learn coming in as a college student, or is that something you had baked in?
Josh (Mater): I had to learn it. I've always tended more towards just being being disciplined and getting my work done. But this this year, I got engaged over the summer, so I had to structure my time to get done all that I needed to. And if I didn't plan it out and be disciplined about it, it wasn't gonna happen.
Jared: How about you? Yeah. Josh?
Josh: I would say with my schedule, at least this semester, having every like, pretty much every day, I have something till five after chapel. So that kind of puts me in the mode of not getting anything done other than work and, like, the classes I have to do till after five. Even though, like, I have open mornings, I think that's just one of the things where I I wanna stay up late cause I guess it's kind of like fear of missing out of things going on at night. I feel like a lot of, like I don't know. At least in my dorm, if you don't stay up late with a couple guys and have fun, you're like you'll miss out on, like, I don't know, being invited to do a next I mean, not that they're not gonna purposely uninvite you, but, like, they might not ask if you keep saying no.
So I know I live kind of by that in that way. So I don't wanna say no too many times. But also, I think they are respectful when I know a couple people needed to study. Like, we'll go to another room and we'll hang out in another area. But when it comes to other stuff outside the classroom I mean, before I came to Cedarville, it was crazy to think, like, in high school, I used to wake up at, like, six in the morning to get on a bus.
Mhmm. I'm like, that's so I know I can do it because I literally did it five days a week.
Rob: You just don't have to now.
Josh: Yeah. I think I I think also it's because I'm living on our own now, like, living with more younger people to have fun with. So I would never stay up as late as I did either. So it's kind of just like a shift. I don't know.
We shifted everything that I was doing just at a different time of day in college. I know, like, I really wanna get back to being a morning person because I know that's kind of how you should start your day. You should, like that that could be a really encouraging way to start your day and have a better day is the morning. Like, I know when I wake up super late or if I'm late to work or something, the rest of my day is kinda like, well, I'll just do better tomorrow. So that's kinda how I feel about it.
Rob: You kinda feel like it's shot or
Josh: Yeah. I guess you can say that. I feel like the day I mean, I still do stuff that I need to do. Like, I'll I'll go to class and stuff, but, like, anything extra or going above and beyond, sometimes I feel like it's shot for the day.
Rob: So talk more about that because one of the things that we're looking at is motivation, how you take advantage of the opportunities that you have in in all your classes as well as, you know, you've got chapel time. How is sleep or what's going on outside affect, you know, why you're actually here in terms of getting an education and and learning?
Josh: To be honest with you, I think the amount of sleep I get matters I wanna say it matters less because, like, I can function on four or five hours of sleep. Obviously, it's not gonna be the best of myself, but I think it matters more specifically when I wake up rather than how much I sleep. Because I know sometimes if I like, if I wake up at 10:00, like, or 09:40 and chapel starts at ten, I didn't get up early enough to get ready for the day, but I'm up and I function. But it's just like I didn't, you know, probably get to shave, so I have to come back after chapel and shave or something. So, I mean, I guess to me it matters more when I wake up and how late I am, I guess, than the amount of sleep I get.
Because, you know, we can drink an energy drink or go take a nap later, but Mater,
Josh (Mater): how about you? I make it a goal to like, my minimum amount of maintainable sleep is, like, seven hours. So I try and stay above that as as best as I can. And it's a rare night that I get less than seven hours of sleep.
Rob: So he's very structured, it seems.
Jared: Yeah. It seems that way. Did you realize freshman year you had to make an adjustment?
Josh (Mater): Yeah. Second semester freshman year, I wasn't very disciplined about sleep or about, like, just structuring life.
Jared: Mhmm.
Josh (Mater): And then I got burned out and was like, I can't keep doing this because it's the easiest year that I have and then four more years of school after that. So I had to had to make some changes and realize, like, figure out what's sustainable versus what's, like, fun in the moment. Mhmm. And so I just kinda had to deduce it over the the course of sophomore year and into this year of, like, what can I do that will help sustain and maintain once the semester picks up and gets really busy? Because, like, right now, we're entering into paper season and projects.
And if I'm, like, checked out and, like, not ready to go, then I'm not gonna finish out well or learn learn the material that I'm supposed to as the year finishes up. Gotcha.
Rob: It sounds like I mean, based on what you're saying that you did this over time, did you do it in a vacuum or were were there did you have colleagues or peers helping you or did you have a mentor that was helping you work through some of this? Or?
Josh (Mater): I mentioned my roommate, he goes to bed early. Yeah. He's very strict about getting eight hours of sleep a night. Okay. So this year, he's kinda really put pressure on me to, like, actually get enough sleep.
And if I don't, like, he'll ask me why I didn't get get enough sleep and, like, what did I have to do that was so important that I couldn't sleep. So he's helped me and but a lot of it's just been, like, analyzing my own habits and realizing here are changes I need to make so that way I can continue to to sustain that and, like, watching what I see other people do either do well or or not as well so that I can learn from from other people as well.
Rob: Well, it's interesting because it's, influence is something that I talk about in my classes that the the friends that you put around you will have influence. And I think if I can go back to Josh, you know, in your earlier comments, one of the things you said was you don't wanna miss out on those times. You don't wanna say no too many times. Yeah. So there's definitely
Josh: Well, I know I have, like, the same type of relationship, I guess, with my roommate in that way. It's just the same type of relationship but, like, opposite. So I'm very influenced by him sleeping in. He's a baseball player for Cedarville, he doesn't have to go to chapel for some reason on Monday and Friday. So that definitely influences me to sleep in or wait till the last minute to get up on Monday and Friday because he's literally just laying there too.
So I'm like, I guess I'll just lay there too.
Jared: Don't wanna interrupt his sleep.
Josh: Yeah. Well, it's well, to be honest with you, it's kind of I don't wanna get up, but then it's also I don't wanna be, like, the noisy roommate that gets up. Even though it's not, like, early anymore, like, he should be getting up too. I don't wanna be, like, turning the lights on and I don't
Jared: know. That's fair.
Josh: And I'll admit, I know, like, my habits are probably not the best because, like I said or back in high school, I would get up at 6AM and then I would go to school till two or 03:00. Then I would work a part time job until, like, eight or nine at night, like, least three days a week. So I know I can be doing more. And I think that was partially influenced by, like, obviously, my parents living with me and encouraging me. So not having that and having a roommate that maybe doesn't work yet.
So he doesn't have a lot of, he doesn't have a lot of things to do outside the dorm besides hang out with friends and and go to classes. So a question maybe I have I don't know if I'm allowed to ask questions.
Rob: Yeah, please.
Josh: How did you like, did you find your roommate? Or was it, like, don't know, like, a randomly picked? Or, like, how did how did you find somebody that woke up earlier? Yeah.
Josh (Mater): I think for me, the change happened probably over the course of last semester. I got sick probably, like, four or five times towards throughout the semester and realized, like, at least for sleep, I needed to make some significant adjustments. I also this semester, I figured out that if if I work in the mornings, like, do school work in the mornings before class, I don't have class before chapel on Monday, Wednesday, Friday, so that gives me, like, a a two hour block where I'm usually most productive in that time slot. So if I shifted my schedule, I ended up being more productive in the mornings. And so that kinda was a motivating factor for me of, like, I can do my work better and more efficiently if I'm going to bed early, and then it also helps.
I don't really like like you mentioned, I don't like being the the noisy roommate. So when my roommate's asleep at ten and then I come in at, like, somewhere between 10:30 and 11:30, I don't necessarily like being loud, so it kinda has shifted my schedule of, like, if I can get in there to my room and get all the stuff I need closer to when he goes to bed, then I prefer to do that because then I'm not gonna be waking him up or keeping him up at night.
Jared: So there are several factors that kind of motivated you to go in that direction. One of the first though is you said is you you took kind of a audit of yourself and figured out, okay, I work best under these conditions, these time at this time of day, and you kinda built your schedule around that. Do was that a gradual process, or how long did it take you to realize, okay. This is how I operate. This is what my path forward should be.
Josh (Mater): I think that's something I knew for a couple years, but it took me a couple years to implement into my schedule. Like, I've known for example, I don't function well. I don't function, like, inter well in terms of academics from about, like, three to five Mhmm. On a normal day. So I plan, like, I'm gonna go do something active then.
And, like, the mornings, I'm more focused because I'm like, okay. I need to get this done, this done, and this done before the day starts. So that was kind of a a shift a necessary shift for this year that was like, if I'm not doing this, I'm not gonna get everything done. So it kinda took me into this year to actually make the change.
Jared: That kinda helps us shift to, like, instructors and how instructors have been, helpful as far as motivation goes. What have your instructors that have been motivating to you in your academics, what have they done, to help motivate with that? And either one of you can can respond. What has an instructor done to, motivate you to do well in class?
Josh: I would say for at least a couple classes, like I can specifically say in Spanish, I guess, we would have certain days that we did certain activities at the beginning of class because we did Spanish four days a week. So and those were usually, like, fun things to get us ready for class. So I would say something like that where, obviously, some of the classes that I'm taking this semester are, like, two or two and a half hours long. So having something to look forward to at the beginning and maybe even the end, that really I mean, I know that might sound childish, like having something to have fun to do, but, like, something that isn't necessarily just education Yeah. Looking at the board, taking notes at the beginning and in the class.
Mhmm. I've noticed that with some bible professors too, where they'll either have music at the beginning or they'll do something funny. They'll play a funny meme or video. So I think that just gets our mind towards enjoying class rather than just So you get a good feeling.
Rob: Yeah. Alright.
Jared: Mater, what about you?
Josh (Mater): I think two interactions I've had kinda stuck out to me with profs. So the first was in Old Testament two last year with doctor Miller. At the beginning of the year, he told us that we needed to stop thinking like students and start thinking like shepherds as we prepare for ministry. And so kind of the shift from, like, okay. I'm focused on grades.
Now I need to be focused on learning the material so that way I can help minister to people in my church in the future.
Rob: Mhmm.
Josh (Mater): And that shift was really helpful for me to think about, like, okay. Doing classes, getting through isn't about me. It's about the future people I'm gonna serve and, like, the congregate the church congregation down the road when I I need to be learning this material so that way I can serve and and bless them with that and not just so I know more things. A second interaction was with doctor Rogers. We were talking and he was telling me that one thing he always tries to do is whatever he's doing to be fully present there.
So it's not like a not overlapping activities, like whether that's studying and hanging out with friends. Like, doing those as a two separate things. It's like going to shut yourself in the library so that way you can focus in while you're studying. So that way you can focus in when you're with your friends. And that's been helpful for me.
Like, when I go to do school, I try and be by myself and just just lock in. That way when I'm with people, I can be fully present and not worrying about I need to get this assignment done or this. So it helps me to kind of balance that. Both of those conversations were really helpful for me.
Jared: We've also been talking about feedback as far as feedback on assignments. We've had several episodes about that, and I'm wondering what you guys think of the value of feedback that you get on assignments. Is it useful? Do you even check it? You know, what are your overall thoughts on it?
And we'll start with Mater this time.
Josh (Mater): Yeah. I think I think feedback is really helpful because some profs will have like, a lot of my my class work is reflection assignments on, readings that we're doing, or like if we're turning in an essay. It's really helpful to have even if it's just like a couple sentences like, hey, here's something you could do differently next time or here's here's something you did well, here's something you shouldn't have done, something like that. I think that's really helpful because part of what I'm I'm trying to learn how to be be a good student, like how to write an essay or do whatever assignment. And having a interaction and feedback, which I know you can't get an in-depth feedback with how many students all the profs have, but having something is is really helpful.
And I think if profs do that, students will check that. But once once I know that a professor doesn't give any feedback, I don't check anything. I don't check for it, and they don't look for it anymore.
Jared: K. Josh?
Josh: I think for me, feedback is is really important because like I've said before, I'm here at college because I wanna be here. It's not for the grade. So, like, when a professor just gives you a grade, like, and it's just a b, and they don't really tell you why Uh-huh. And you don't know what you did wrong to get a b, I find it really frustrating. Most of time, they'll give a little bit of feedback or they'll have the rubric.
But even the rubric they give, if you don't put in specific comments, it could be really frustrating because, like, it's not just, like, I'm frustrated that I gotta b, but it's more, like, I want even though I can't fix it to get a better grade, like, I wanna I wanna know what I did wrong so that I don't do it again or for the next assignment, I do it correctly better. It's less about the grade and more about I wanna learn the knowledge that you were supposed that I was supposed to learn from this assignment.
Jared: Well, both of you are in majors that require certain sets of skills that you need to master. So especially getting that feedback is crucial to help you improve to be better at what you want Mhmm. To be and what God has called you to be. Right? So assessment wise.
And we're gonna this is one of those that's directly from this may be kind of bit off the question list there. But, one of the big motivating factors that we've heard and we've seen in literature has to do with autonomy and assessment. In other words, giving students a bit of a choice within boundaries when it comes to an assessment. So two questions. One, have you ever been given a task in a course where you had some sort of freedom of choice?
And follow-up from that, was it motivating versus maybe one that you didn't have choice?
Josh: I would say when it comes to a creative aspect, like for my, like doing projects in my major with video and audio and graphic design, obviously, there has to be choice. So I really do like those projects, probably better. But when it comes to just like general education classes or things like that, I don't know if there's been a lot of options at Cedarville for projects. Like, I'm just trying to think, like, psychology. I really don't think there was assignments for that that we could choose or, I mean, some of the bible ones, we could be a little creative with how we decided to answer, but, mainly, I've only had that, I've only been able to do that through my major classes because it's a creative type of program.
Jared: Sure. Did you find the ones that you had the choice more motivating or about the same?
Josh: I mean, I would say it's more motivating because I get to like, at least like, for example, my most recent project, we're we're getting to choose a problem here in Cedarville to try to fix even though we're not actually gonna fix it. So, like, getting to choose a problem that I actually have so that I I get more focused on it and, like, I have more of an experience with it and I have more knowledge on it.
Jared: Mater?
Josh: I've had I would
Josh (Mater): say I've had papers on within within both of those categories where it's, like, strictly set like, hey. Write about this versus and also on the flip side, hey. Pick something we've talked about in this course. Write a paper on that. And while the second one is overwhelming of like choosing something from the course, I think it often can be really helpful because it's picking something I'm either seeing, like it's something I'm working through in my own like, thought process and how I'm thinking about it, or it's something I've seen, hey.
This might be an important issue that I need to have have a stance on. And, like, within biblical studies, it's, like, something I've seen in the church or something I'm trying to work out for myself. So that's been helpful. And, like, those projects are usually a little bit more motivating because I'm trying to come to to a conclusion on how I think about it, which leads me to do more thorough research on on the issue or on the topic at hand.
Josh: Mhmm.
Jared: What were you like in high school as far as academically? Were you say you were like a perfectionist or would you be more I don't care?
Josh (Mater): I definitely wasn't a perfectionist, but I was probably, like, on a scale from, like, not caring to perfectionist. Definitely more on the perfectionist side
Jared: k.
Josh (Mater): But not quite there. Like, I didn't care if I didn't get a 100 on an on a quiz or on an essay or something, but
Jared: See, that that surprises me because you you when you were talking about not really liking or being apprehensive about something with choice, it reminds me of the students I had when I taught high school that were like, what do I do to get an a? I don't care. I don't want this creative outlet or whatever. I just wanna know how to get an a. So that's kind of you weren't that type of student, were you?
No. Okay. Over to you, Josh. What about you? Were you that type of student?
Josh: No. I definitely wasn't a perfectionist, but I also like, I wanted to do better than, like, the bare minimum, obviously. I would say kind of a little bit off that one big difference that I noticed even in high school. So, like, from a high school perspective to even going to, like, a career center for, like, the last year of my high school, one big difference just between those two were people wanted to be there. And I think that's even more seen at college where it's it shows the bigger differences.
People want to be here. It's not like they're required, like, high school. So I think when people want like you said, like, how do we get an a in this? It's because they wanna get over with it and they wanna get the best. But people at college, I think, we want to learn it.
That's why we're here. We're either going in debt for it or we're paying a lot of money for it. So it's not like it's not something we don't have to do. So I think that's a big reason why.
Rob: So let me ask some maybe a little bit tougher question, but are there things that professors have done or here in college that while their intentions might have been good, did not help you or you found them demotivating?
Josh (Mater): One thing that I've kinda noticed is I know there's always, like, a mutual responsibility every time there's Right. Relationships and motivation. One thing that I've kinda noticed especially for myself and classmates is that, like, some days people are just tired and, like, students are just exhausted and, like, on on days like that, sometimes there's super technical lectures that get into, like, something super specific and it's it's a good lecture and, like, a lot of good content that I know the professor needs to communicate. But sometimes when those are just like, hey, sit for fifty minutes or an hour fifteen and listen on a day when you're already exhausted. It's like, that's like and that's hard to hard to do and to stay motivated to to listen.
And I think sometimes there's days when I'm I'll just look around and, like, everyone basically, everyone in the class has checked out and I'm like, that's I think not only for myself, but for others as well that can be very demotivating and just it's hard to to stay motivated with that.
Rob: So that kinda leads me to my my last question anyway, and that is, what's something what's one thing you think professors could do to help in those times? What would you want them to do?
Josh (Mater): I think something that might be helpful is providing brief little discussion blocks. Like, it doesn't have to be, like, a long 10 discussion, but, like, I have profs who they'll they'll talk for a bit, and then they'll be like, okay. Talk about this with the person next to you. Here's some guided guided prompts to talk along alongside. So that way, we're kinda processing as we go.
And then if we're talking through it, we're forced to digest a little bit more of the lecture. Mhmm. And then it's not just sitting and trying to absorb, but it's like we can engage with it. Okay. And then that helps at least on my for me, that helps me to refocus.
So that way I can listen better and that it's not just sailing over my head mostly.
Rob: Okay.
Josh: Josh? I would say one thing that I've specifically seen that I really like is mister Miller's class, how he sets it up. Obviously, it's really dangerous to not take attendance in your class when it comes to your grade. It could be it could be dangerous in the way of, like, you don't have to show up and you can still Mhmm. Like, it's not gonna count against you.
But at the same time, he likes to treat us like adults. I think that's one of his sayings is he doesn't wanna treat us like students but like an adult. So I guess in that way, I think it makes it easier for if you're having one of those days where you're just really not into it and it doesn't make sense for you to be there because you're not learning anything anyway. You can go take a walk. Even if it's a walk for half the class and then you're a little bit your mind's a little bit more focused, you can come back and finish taking your notes.
And then you can go back and, he has all of his notes and all of his lectures online where you can go back and watch them. So I think that's one thing that I know a lot of teachers or professors don't wanna do because they think that's just gonna make people not come to class. But I think I know his class was huge, but I think he proved in his way that people were still coming to class. Mhmm. And they were learning maybe more than they would have if they had to be there, if that makes sense.
That was one class where people you didn't have to go, so the people that did go really didn't wanna be there because attendance wasn't required. And, I think it helped more than it hurt. And I see a lot of professors going the opposite route of that.
Jared: Well, thank you both for joining us. I appreciate you taking times out of your busy schedule. Like you said, it's paper season, Mater. So, we appreciate you guys taking some time, taking an hour out of your day to talk with us. I'm sure this is this was not during your crunch time, Mater, so I think you're okay as far as you're not
Josh: Yeah.
Jared: You're not having to budget other times.
Rob: We didn't get the best of him.
Jared: We did not get the best of him.
Josh: We need
Jared: to come into your dorm at 8AM to Hey. We need to
Rob: be recording with him at
Josh (Mater): 8AM where he's sharp. Let's not wait to keep up at 8AM
Jared: to make you do that with your baseball roommate. Alright. Well, thank you both for joining us today.
Ryan: Thanks for listening to this episode of Transform Your Teaching. If you have any questions or comments about our interview today, feel free to send us an email at ctlpodcast@cedarville.edu. You can also connect with us on LinkedIn, and don't forget to check out our blog at cedarville.edu/focusblog. Thanks for listening.