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Good morning,
good afternoon and good evening.

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Welcome to the Rethink Culture Podcast,
the podcast that shines a spotlight

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on business leaders who are rethinking
workplace culture.

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My name is Andreas Constantinou
and I'm your host,

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and I'm also chairman
and founder of SlashData.

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I'm an accidental micromanager
who turned servant leader, leader

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over the years and developed
a personal passion for workplace culture.

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Today I have the rare pleasure

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of welcoming Garry Ridge.

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Garry spent 25 years as CEO of WD-40.

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He's now Chairman Emeritus
of that company, and he spends his time

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coaching CEOs

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on culture, among other things.

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He's the author of Helping
People Win at Work with Ken Blanchard,

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and he's also writing a new book,
he tells me,

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which is provocatively
titled Any Dumbass Can Do It.

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He is born in Australia.

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He lives in San Diego,
where he also teaches

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as an adjunct professor,
and he's also worked in over 70 countries.

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And when I asked him about his frequent
flier miles, he's

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accumulated over 7 million miles
with American Airlines.

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That's quite a trophy, Garry.

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Welcome to the Rethink Culture podcast.

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Good day Andreas,
it's such a delight to be with you.

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Thank you so much.

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So where do we start?

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Do you want to start with

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a quick description
of what is culture to you?

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And maybe tell us a bit about the WD-40
tribe and the culture you've built there.

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Yeah, thank you.

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I think businesses and leaders
have a responsibility

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that they probably haven't
lived up to over many years.

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And, you know,
if I could accomplish one thing,

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it would be to help companies
create a workplace culture

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where people can go to work every day
knowing that their efforts

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make a contribution to a cause
that's actually bigger than themselves,

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where they feel safe
and safety is so important,

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where they're protected and set free
by a compelling set of values

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that empower them,

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where they learn something new
and try new things without fear.

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And this makes people for happy people
and happy people

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create happy families and happy families
create happy communities.

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And we absolutely need a happy world.

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So culture, to me,
is creating the environment

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that I just described
with the elements that are so important.

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Indeed, we often forget that

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our duty as leaders extend

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beyond the company into the lives
and the families

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and the communities
of the people that we serve.

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We touch businesses, touch
more people every day than anything else.

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So, you know, people do a good job

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when doing meaningful work with people
they enjoy.

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People want to know they matter
and they want to feel like they belong.

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And, you know, caring in an organization
is what I call premium fuel.

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And you don't run a Ferrari on
standard fuel.

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So care is so important
in an organization.

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So what is your journey in culture?

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Did you

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instinctively have a feel for what culture

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you wanted to build at WD-40,
or was it like a revelation?

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Was it an inflection point?

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What was it? Yeah, it was an aha for me.

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You know,
I joined WD-40 in 1987 in Australia.

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I opened the Australian subsidiary
there and I worked out of Sydney

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from 87 to 94 doing most of my work,
in fact, in Asia.

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And in 1994, I got the opportunity
to move to the United States.

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They asked me to move here
to help with our global expansion.

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And in 1997, the then CEO retired,

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and I was given the privilege and honor
of leading the company.

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And I was scared that I wasn't afraid.

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I knew what our what our opportunity was.

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It was to take the blue and yellow can
with a little red top to the world.

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And I knew how to do that operationally.

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But how did you do it with with people

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so that you didn't have to micromanage
anything.

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Anyhow, I was actually on an airplane

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and I was flying
from Los Angeles to Sydney.

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And as you do when you're on an airplane,
you always have a bunch of stuff

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you read.

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And I was reading through some articles
and I read this quote that was attributed,

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I believe, to the Dalai Lama,

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and it said, Our purpose in
life is to make people happy.

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If we can't make them happy,
at least don't hurt them.

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And I thought, wow,
that makes a lot of sense to me.

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Then interesting enough,
I then read a quote

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from Aristotle, who was born in 384 B.C.,

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and it says, Pleasure in the job
puts perfection in the work.

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And I thought,
wow, doesn't that make sense?

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If we had an organization
that there was pleasure

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in the job,
the work output would have to be better.

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But I didn't know how to do that.

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So anyhow, I got back to San Diego
and I was reading a newspaper

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and I read about a program
at the University of San Diego,

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and it was a master's
degree in leadership.

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So I went to an information session
and I heard Dr.

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Ken Blanchard,
The One Minute Manager, probably

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the one of the most known global people
around servant leadership.

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And he said most MBA programs
get people in the head.

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We've got to start
getting people in the heart.

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And I went, Wow.

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So here I am.

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CEO of a US public company.

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I didn't know what
I didn't know around culture.

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So I went back to school
and I did a masters degree,

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the Masters degree in leadership, ah, Ken
was one of my professors, amongst others.

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And then subsequently, you know,
years later, we wrote a book together.

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But that's where I learned
the power of servant leadership.

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And being in my role as CEO,
I was able to take that learning

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and start
to implement it in the organization.

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So that's where the journey started
and the rest is history.

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You know, the people around us
ended up building just an amazing culture

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that today is, you know, we have,
WD-40 has 93% employee engagement

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and 98% of the people
who work in the company globally

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say they love to tell people
they work at the company.

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— Wow. That's unheard of.
— So that's...

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That's unheard of.
Well, it's not unheard of.

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They did it.

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So how do you get from this vision

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in your head about leading from the heart

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to metabolizing these ideas
within the organization?

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Well, I think you first have to decide,
or you have to know,

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what are the ingredients
that need to be in place

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in an organization
to build a great culture.

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And I learned a lot of that,

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those ingredients
when I was going through the program.

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But it also took me back

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many, many, many years to a science class
that I did in high school.

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And I remember my science teacher saying,

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We're going to grow culture,
and he gave us a Petri dish.

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And he said, Now

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what are we going to do with this
petri dish is we're going to grow culture.

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And there are two things
that you need to keep in mind about that.

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Number one, what are the ingredients
that you put in the dish?

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And then

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you, as the owner of the dish,
have to do two things.

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You have to continually feed
the ingredients that that grow

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great culture and more importantly
or equally as important, important,

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you have to treat toxins
as they enter the dish.

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Now, the challenge was what do you what do
leaders know what to put in the dish?

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And here are the things
I think that should be in the dish.

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Firstly,
you have to have a people first mindset.

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You're not there to manage people,
you're there to coach people.

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Our job is to coach people to help them

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achieve the best they possibly can.

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You have to have clearly defined
authentic purpose.

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Why are we getting up today?

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What's our just cause in an organization?

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You have to have a hierarchical set
of clearly defined values.

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Now, why do they need to be hierarchical?

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Because people,
you don't want people cherry

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picking a value
to meet a certain situation.

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So they have to be hierarchical.

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You have to have a transparent
and simple vision.

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So transparency is so important.

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We instigated what we called
the learning moment,

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and my consulting business
is called The Learning Moment.

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And what's the learning moment?

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Well, the learning moment is a positive
or negative outcome of any situation

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that needs to be openly
and freely shared to benefit all people.

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So we took the word failure out
and we said, we don't make mistakes.

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We have learning moments.

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And if you've read any of Amy Edmondson’s
work or anyone,

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any of that work, it talks about creating
psychological safety.

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Now, interestingly enough, WD-40,
the product, was born on learning moments.

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Because when it was invented

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there were 39 formulas
that didn't work and the 40th one worked.

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So if they had have given up at 39,
we wouldn't be having this conversation

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today.

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You have to create
belonging, acceptance and connectedness.

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People want to know they belong,

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They want to be connected
and they want to know they matter.

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You have to have four pillars of care.

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You need to care for your people.

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You need to have candor in an organization
and candor

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to me is no lying, no faking, no hiding.

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I believe most people don't lie.

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I believe they fake and hide.

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The next one is accountability.

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What are you going to be accountable for
and what am I going to be accountable for?

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Is there clarity around that?

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And then an organization
that respects responsibility.

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And then finally, you have to be...

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you have to have what I call
brave accountability and behavior.

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Most leaders
protect their own comfort zone

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at the expense
of other people's development.

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So, you know,

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culture is not

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about popcorn, peanuts, ping pong.

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It's about having a heart of gold
and a backbone of steel.

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It's a balance between being tough
minded and tenderhearted.

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So the petri dish is important,

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to build great culture,
do you have the right ingredients?

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Have you identified them?
Are they in place?

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And then as leaders,
are you brave enough to not only

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reward and applaud,
but also redirect behaviors

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that are not fueling
that positive culture?

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That was quite a download, Garry.

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Amazing list of ingredients
for culture.

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Very well thought out.

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But my question then is,

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okay, so you
have all this figured out

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and then you have this large workforce.

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I mean,
I assume it's in the thousands, right?

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Or tens of thousands?

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Not tens of thousands. No, there's not.

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There’s thousands, yeah.

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And then the thousands still.

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And then like, how do you

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pass that along.

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Is it like set of values and behaviors?

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Is it like culture...

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opportunities to reinforce the culture?

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Like, how do you make that real?

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Well, it first starts with the leadership.

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Leadership
truly is the reflection of culture.

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So our leadership team had to agree to

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and certainly support the fact that
this is what we're going to live up to.

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And it was our values as an organization
that bonded us together.

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We have the same values
in any of our operations around the world.

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So they they bound us together.

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And then leadership has to
you know, there's zero tolerance.

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It means we're going to go out there.

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The other thing that we did was,
in the book I wrote with Ken Blanchard,

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which is called Helping
People Win at Work, we actually...

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and it talks
about having these conversations

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with the people
you have the privilege to lead.

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And we actually had our values embedded
in those conversations.

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So at least every 90 days,
we would ask people in the organization

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to tell us how have they lived
our values in the last 90 days.

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Give us real examples.

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And we only had two measurements.

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You either lived our value
or you visited the value.

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And we didn't want visitors.

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We wanted people to live.

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So this this process is continual.

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You know, it's...

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a friend of mine, Charlie Malouf, is a

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is the CEO of an organization
in the US called Broad River Retail.

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They own a number of huge furniture
stores.

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He has a beautiful statement.

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00:13:10,666 --> 00:13:13,666
He says, “You cannot microwave culture;

242
00:13:13,875 --> 00:13:15,916
it takes a crockpot approach.”

243
00:13:15,916 --> 00:13:20,041
And a lot of people think you can go
and, you know, sprinkle fairy dust

244
00:13:20,041 --> 00:13:24,000
on an organization
with a couple of random programs

245
00:13:24,000 --> 00:13:27,625
and some training efforts and suddenly,
boom, you have a great culture.

246
00:13:27,625 --> 00:13:29,000
No, it doesn't work.

247
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It's simple.

248
00:13:30,166 --> 00:13:33,791
It's not easy and time is not your friend.

249
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You have to be continually living up

250
00:13:36,541 --> 00:13:40,833
to the values and the principles
that you've embedded in the organization.

251
00:13:40,916 --> 00:13:45,708
You mentioned to me earlier
about your four values,

252
00:13:45,791 --> 00:13:49,208
and I always find that, you know,
there needs to be

253
00:13:49,208 --> 00:13:52,583
some alignment between the CEO's values
and the company values.

254
00:13:52,666 --> 00:13:55,291
Otherwise it's just not fun
leading that business.

255
00:13:55,291 --> 00:13:58,625
So did these values

256
00:13:58,708 --> 00:14:01,875
emerge out of the culture
you built at WD-40,

257
00:14:01,875 --> 00:14:06,250
or were you always aware
of those four values

258
00:14:06,250 --> 00:14:09,791
that you represent
and infuse these into the company?

259
00:14:09,958 --> 00:14:16,208
Interestingly enough, the four
that I shared with you have been a recent

260
00:14:16,291 --> 00:14:18,916
awareness of them for me.

261
00:14:18,916 --> 00:14:25,666
I you know, I was trying to understand
why I behaved the way I did.

262
00:14:25,666 --> 00:14:30,291
And the four were hope,
harmony, optimism and confidence.

263
00:14:30,375 --> 00:14:31,125
So I'm a...

264
00:14:31,125 --> 00:14:35,750
you know, I think leaders have to be
champions of hope, no doubt, about it.

265
00:14:35,833 --> 00:14:40,000
Harmony being,
you know, we're most inspired

266
00:14:40,000 --> 00:14:44,041
when everyone and everything
is working in harmony together.

267
00:14:44,125 --> 00:14:47,583
And that doesn't happen by accident
because things go off the rails.

268
00:14:47,583 --> 00:14:50,583
So we've got to we've got to bring
that together in the organization.

269
00:14:50,583 --> 00:14:53,583
You know, optimism being that,

270
00:14:53,750 --> 00:14:56,458
you know,
we know that there is a better future.

271
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So these are so important
and then confidence is so important too,

272
00:15:00,833 --> 00:15:05,125
in that you have a high degree
of confidence in your ability to execute.

273
00:15:05,208 --> 00:15:08,250
So those were an awareness
of the behaviors

274
00:15:08,250 --> 00:15:10,875
that I think motivate me the most.

275
00:15:10,875 --> 00:15:13,541
The values at WD-40 Company,
the first value is

276
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we value doing the right thing.

277
00:15:15,791 --> 00:15:17,250
The second value is we value

278
00:15:17,250 --> 00:15:21,000
creating positive lasting memories
in all of our relationships.

279
00:15:21,083 --> 00:15:24,791
So you can see that the second value
was very aligned

280
00:15:24,791 --> 00:15:30,083
with building positive relationships
within our organization,

281
00:15:30,166 --> 00:15:33,500
but positive relationships
with the customers we have the privilege

282
00:15:33,500 --> 00:15:39,083
to serve, positive relationships
with Mother Nature who allows us to exist.

283
00:15:39,166 --> 00:15:42,375
So, you know, it was those
that were really important

284
00:15:42,375 --> 00:15:47,625
and those values came out of a process
we did 26 years ago

285
00:15:47,708 --> 00:15:50,458
where we brought people together and said,
What are the things

286
00:15:50,458 --> 00:15:53,125
that are more important to us
than anything else?

287
00:15:53,125 --> 00:15:55,625
And as I said, they were
they were hierarchical.

288
00:15:55,625 --> 00:16:01,041
The number six value was we value
sustaining the WD-40 company economy,

289
00:16:01,125 --> 00:16:04,708
which is really
how do we build a an economy

290
00:16:04,708 --> 00:16:08,750
within the business that can support
the constituents within the business?

291
00:16:08,750 --> 00:16:11,291
Because, you know, at the end of the day,

292
00:16:11,291 --> 00:16:14,833
strategy must support
the financial needs of the business

293
00:16:15,041 --> 00:16:19,041
because if you're not
profitably successful,

294
00:16:19,125 --> 00:16:21,166
then how can you support the culture?

295
00:16:21,166 --> 00:16:22,166
You can't do it.

296
00:16:22,166 --> 00:16:25,583
Now, as I shared with you, you know,

297
00:16:25,666 --> 00:16:30,375
we had a very high employee engagement,
but over a 25 year period,

298
00:16:30,583 --> 00:16:34,750
we nearly six-xed our revenue
and we had a compounded

299
00:16:34,750 --> 00:16:39,375
annual growth rate of total shareholder
return of over 15% a year.

300
00:16:39,375 --> 00:16:45,416
Our market cap went from 300 million
to nearly $2.6 billion.

301
00:16:45,500 --> 00:16:46,458
Who did that?

302
00:16:46,458 --> 00:16:48,708
We just sell oil in a can.

303
00:16:48,708 --> 00:16:49,416
Who did that?

304
00:16:49,416 --> 00:16:53,916
Our people did that because they were
the ones that lived up to, you know,

305
00:16:53,916 --> 00:16:57,375
they went to work creating memories
that are positive amongst themselves.

306
00:16:57,500 --> 00:17:00,041
And going home
happy was a place they wanted to work.

307
00:17:00,041 --> 00:17:01,666
Wonderful.

308
00:17:01,750 --> 00:17:04,375
Gary, before we continue on culture,
I want to quiz

309
00:17:04,375 --> 00:17:10,000
you with this game I like to play,
which is Two Truths and One Lie.

310
00:17:10,083 --> 00:17:15,208
So what are two truths and one lie
for you, in no particular order?

311
00:17:15,291 --> 00:17:17,000
And we'll figure them out at the end.

312
00:17:17,000 --> 00:17:19,125
Okay. Two truths and one lie.

313
00:17:19,125 --> 00:17:23,166
Number one is I once had an Afro hairdo.

314
00:17:23,208 --> 00:17:26,625
Number two was I once was a,

315
00:17:26,708 --> 00:17:30,125
uh, a radio disc jockey in Sydney,
Australia.

316
00:17:30,125 --> 00:17:33,083
I had a radio program on Sydney radio.

317
00:17:33,083 --> 00:17:38,000
And number three was I played
first grade rugby in high school.

318
00:17:38,083 --> 00:17:40,000
Oh, that's a tough one.

319
00:17:40,000 --> 00:17:42,541
They all so likely.

320
00:17:42,541 --> 00:17:46,333
That's why I like them.

321
00:17:46,416 --> 00:17:48,708
I would I'll go for a random one,
which is that

322
00:17:48,708 --> 00:17:50,708
you didn't play rugby,
you played another sport.

323
00:17:50,708 --> 00:17:53,791
But we'll find out at the end. Okay.

324
00:17:53,875 --> 00:17:54,208
All right.

325
00:17:54,208 --> 00:17:54,958
Thank you for that.

326
00:17:54,958 --> 00:17:59,125
Now, lots of stuff to to talk about.

327
00:17:59,208 --> 00:18:03,250
And we did have a warm up discussion
before pressing the record button.

328
00:18:03,250 --> 00:18:08,125
So you told me
or you showed me this little guy,

329
00:18:08,208 --> 00:18:11,958
the the soul sucking leader,

330
00:18:12,041 --> 00:18:13,666
this guy. This guy.

331
00:18:13,666 --> 00:18:15,583
So. Yeah, this is Al.

332
00:18:15,583 --> 00:18:17,291
Or it could be Alice.

333
00:18:17,291 --> 00:18:18,625
And they're the souls...

334
00:18:18,625 --> 00:18:22,708
I call him the soul
sucking CEO of Fear Inc,

335
00:18:22,791 --> 00:18:26,875
because it's their behaviors
in an organization that create these toxic

336
00:18:26,875 --> 00:18:27,833
cultures.

337
00:18:27,833 --> 00:18:33,458
And, you know, they're behaviors
that many, many leaders have.

338
00:18:33,500 --> 00:18:36,125
And when they become aware of them
and that's one of the big things

339
00:18:36,125 --> 00:18:39,708
about leadership
is, you know, hold the mirror to your face

340
00:18:39,708 --> 00:18:43,458
and see which of these behaviors you have
and how you're going to change them.

341
00:18:43,458 --> 00:18:46,166
And I probably... I'm
going to share some of them with you.

342
00:18:46,166 --> 00:18:49,541
And I probably had most of these behaviors
at a high,

343
00:18:49,541 --> 00:18:52,708
at some level of competence
over my career.

344
00:18:52,791 --> 00:18:57,250
Now, the number one, one
that is really destroying is this person's

345
00:18:57,250 --> 00:19:01,125
ego eats their empathy,
instead of their empathy,

346
00:19:01,166 --> 00:19:05,541
eating their ego, because empathy
and leadership is so important.

347
00:19:05,791 --> 00:19:07,375
How do we care about other people?

348
00:19:07,375 --> 00:19:10,083
I said care was the premium food.

349
00:19:10,083 --> 00:19:12,708
Number two,
they think micromanagement is essential.

350
00:19:12,708 --> 00:19:16,708
Now, I heard you say a little earlier
that you had that early on.

351
00:19:16,750 --> 00:19:17,958
You had a little dose, I did.

352
00:19:17,958 --> 00:19:20,333
I did a little dose of micromanaging.

353
00:19:20,333 --> 00:19:22,250
They think they're corporate royalty.

354
00:19:22,250 --> 00:19:26,541
You know, they have the biggest office
in the building, a private parking spot.

355
00:19:26,625 --> 00:19:28,958
They love a fear-based culture.

356
00:19:28,958 --> 00:19:32,166
They're a master of control
and a know-it-all.

357
00:19:32,208 --> 00:19:35,708
They have all the answers,
even the wrong ones.

358
00:19:35,750 --> 00:19:37,750
They must always be right.

359
00:19:37,750 --> 00:19:42,208
They hate feedback and they usually don't
follow through on their commitments.

360
00:19:42,208 --> 00:19:43,500
They're unreliable.

361
00:19:43,500 --> 00:19:49,166
So they're some of the habits of Al
or Alice, the soul sucking leader

362
00:19:49,166 --> 00:19:54,416
or CEO, versus what are the habits
of the habits of a servant leader?

363
00:19:54,416 --> 00:19:57,416
Well, firstly, a servant leader

364
00:19:57,458 --> 00:20:00,291
involves and loves their people.

365
00:20:00,291 --> 00:20:03,125
They must always be in servant
leadership mode.

366
00:20:03,125 --> 00:20:04,708
We are here to serve.

367
00:20:04,708 --> 00:20:07,125
They're expected to be competent,
great learners.

368
00:20:07,125 --> 00:20:08,666
I love the sign behind you.

369
00:20:08,666 --> 00:20:10,666
Always learning.

370
00:20:10,666 --> 00:20:12,875
We need to always be learning.

371
00:20:12,875 --> 00:20:15,833
They have a high degree
of emotional intelligence.

372
00:20:15,833 --> 00:20:18,833
In other words,
they have the radar of feeling.

373
00:20:18,958 --> 00:20:21,500
They love learning moments
because learning moments

374
00:20:21,500 --> 00:20:25,458
are the opportunity to be entrepreneurial
and grow and be better.

375
00:20:25,541 --> 00:20:28,333
They have a heart of gold,
but they've got a backbone of steel.

376
00:20:28,333 --> 00:20:30,125
As I said, it's not about,

377
00:20:30,125 --> 00:20:33,375
you know, there's a balance
between tough-minded and tender-hearted.

378
00:20:33,458 --> 00:20:35,291
They're champions of hope.

379
00:20:35,291 --> 00:20:38,166
They know micromanagement is not scalable.

380
00:20:38,166 --> 00:20:40,500
They always do what they say
they're going to do,

381
00:20:40,500 --> 00:20:42,500
and they love the gift of feedback.

382
00:20:42,500 --> 00:20:46,208
And for those listening but not watching,
you are holding up

383
00:20:46,416 --> 00:20:50,083
a little doll that you made, right? Yes.

384
00:20:50,125 --> 00:20:55,166
That looks like
a soul sucking leader with a

385
00:20:55,250 --> 00:20:58,083
face covered in blood.

386
00:20:58,083 --> 00:20:58,916
It's just a big mouth.

387
00:20:58,916 --> 00:20:59,875
And Type A written on it.

388
00:20:59,875 --> 00:21:00,916
It's just a big mouth.

389
00:21:00,916 --> 00:21:02,333
A big, big mouth?

390
00:21:02,333 --> 00:21:05,333
Okay. Yeah. Blah, blah, blah.

391
00:21:05,416 --> 00:21:07,416
Oh, I get it.

392
00:21:07,416 --> 00:21:13,541
So. Yeah, very vivid. I...

393
00:21:13,625 --> 00:21:17,625
when I when I took that transition
from like micromanager

394
00:21:17,625 --> 00:21:21,250
to servant leader
and it was many, many years

395
00:21:21,333 --> 00:21:26,500
of transition, one of the pivotal books
for me was Liz Wiseman's Multipliers.

396
00:21:26,500 --> 00:21:27,500
Oh yeah, great book.

397
00:21:27,500 --> 00:21:30,916
Which talks about the multipliers
and the diminisher manager.

398
00:21:31,000 --> 00:21:36,291
Is there another book which you recommend

399
00:21:36,333 --> 00:21:40,291
leaders should read as they become
more conscious about how they lead others?

400
00:21:40,375 --> 00:21:41,750
Well, I'm going to give you two.

401
00:21:41,750 --> 00:21:43,291
The first one

402
00:21:43,291 --> 00:21:47,125
I'm going to give you is an amazing book
that's been around for years and years,

403
00:21:47,208 --> 00:21:50,916
and it's called Everything You Need
to Know You Learn in Kindergarten,

404
00:21:51,000 --> 00:21:53,416
and it's written by Robert Fulghum.

405
00:21:53,416 --> 00:21:54,541
Fulghum.

406
00:21:54,541 --> 00:21:58,666
And in fact, I read this book every summer

407
00:21:58,750 --> 00:22:02,375
because it reminds me again
of what did we learn in kindergarten

408
00:22:02,375 --> 00:22:06,000
and some simple things,
you know, say please and thank you.

409
00:22:06,000 --> 00:22:09,125
Pick up after yourself,
you know, rely on a friend.

410
00:22:09,291 --> 00:22:13,458
If we were to take those and put them
into practice, it would be wonderful.

411
00:22:13,541 --> 00:22:16,416
The other book that I really love
is written by a friend of mine.

412
00:22:16,416 --> 00:22:19,208
His name is Ron Carucci.
It's called To Be Honest.

413
00:22:19,208 --> 00:22:22,625
And it talks
about all of the things that are

414
00:22:22,666 --> 00:22:27,291
that are alive in organizations
that we don't want to be honest about.

415
00:22:27,333 --> 00:22:29,083
For example,

416
00:22:29,083 --> 00:22:33,041
you know, as a leader, don't think people
aren't talking about you at home tonight.

417
00:22:33,041 --> 00:22:34,000
They are.

418
00:22:34,000 --> 00:22:35,458
But what are they saying?

419
00:22:35,458 --> 00:22:38,250
Are they saying, wow, I hope he doesn't

420
00:22:38,250 --> 00:22:42,041
call on me to have a meeting
because I never have a good outcome.

421
00:22:42,125 --> 00:22:46,750
You know, is
is he going to create a an organization,

422
00:22:46,750 --> 00:22:49,625
which is the job that I want to have,
you know?

423
00:22:49,625 --> 00:22:53,375
When I get, you know, that message
that that I'm booked on

424
00:22:53,375 --> 00:22:57,625
an outlook outlook calendar,
do I just freeze?

425
00:22:57,708 --> 00:23:01,833
So To Be Honest is a great book
and and it really does

426
00:23:01,833 --> 00:23:05,041
have some great examples
of, yeah, people are talking about you,

427
00:23:05,291 --> 00:23:07,291
so, what are they saying?
And you know what they're saying?

428
00:23:07,291 --> 00:23:08,958
They’re saying what you create.

429
00:23:08,958 --> 00:23:11,291
Actions speak louder than words.

430
00:23:11,291 --> 00:23:15,000
Leadership is the shadow,
culture is a shadow of the leadership.

431
00:23:15,000 --> 00:23:18,291
It's,
you know, the fish rots from the head.

432
00:23:18,375 --> 00:23:19,000
Right?

433
00:23:19,000 --> 00:23:20,166
Right.

434
00:23:20,166 --> 00:23:24,916
So if you were to write a book on
how to build

435
00:23:24,958 --> 00:23:27,958
a thriving culture,

436
00:23:27,958 --> 00:23:30,958
where would you start or what chapters
would that book have?

437
00:23:31,041 --> 00:23:33,791
Well,
that's kind of the book that I'm writing.

438
00:23:33,791 --> 00:23:37,208
And the first chapter in
the book is called Are You Okay?

439
00:23:37,291 --> 00:23:40,416
And it's really about other people
in the organization okay.

440
00:23:40,416 --> 00:23:41,708
You know, how do you feel?

441
00:23:41,708 --> 00:23:46,125
And you know,
the first thing you have to do to change

442
00:23:46,125 --> 00:23:50,250
culture is you, as the leader,
have to be aware of who you are.

443
00:23:50,250 --> 00:23:53,791
Because it's like you said, Andreas,

444
00:23:53,791 --> 00:23:58,083
when you had to pivot
from being a micromanager,

445
00:23:58,083 --> 00:24:02,333
that was an amazing revolution
because that's who you were.

446
00:24:02,333 --> 00:24:05,666
So firstly,
do you know who you are as a leader?

447
00:24:05,750 --> 00:24:11,458
And in fact, the master's degree
I did at USD, the first week of the course

448
00:24:11,541 --> 00:24:15,291
was all about understanding who you are,
you know,

449
00:24:15,375 --> 00:24:19,208
who do you are, what are your values,
you know, where do you sit

450
00:24:19,291 --> 00:24:22,166
and then what do you like about that
and what don't you like?

451
00:24:22,166 --> 00:24:22,916
I actually did...

452
00:24:22,916 --> 00:24:26,041
in a DiSC profile...

453
00:24:26,125 --> 00:24:30,833
My DiSC profile, when I went into
the program, I was a turbo D and the...

454
00:24:31,000 --> 00:24:35,916
my definition of a turbo D is “be
brief, be bright and be gone”.

455
00:24:36,000 --> 00:24:38,041
That wasn't going to build a great coach.

456
00:24:38,041 --> 00:24:43,083
I had to move myself into more of an I,
which was more

457
00:24:43,083 --> 00:24:47,416
of the interpersonal person,
and that had to be deliberate.

458
00:24:47,458 --> 00:24:51,375
And now if I take a DiSC program
instead of being a DI,

459
00:24:51,416 --> 00:24:55,125
I'm an ID
because I've changed those behaviors.

460
00:24:55,208 --> 00:24:58,958
Another book that's a fabulous book around
that is written by my friend

461
00:24:58,958 --> 00:25:04,541
Marshall Goldsmith, and it's a book called
What Got You Here Won't Get You There.

462
00:25:04,625 --> 00:25:08,666
And it's the 20 bad habits
that through his coaching career have,

463
00:25:08,708 --> 00:25:14,583
he's identified in leaders
that they need to be aware of.

464
00:25:14,666 --> 00:25:18,166
Yeah, I love Marshall Goldsmith.

465
00:25:18,250 --> 00:25:20,333
So in your

466
00:25:20,333 --> 00:25:25,708
in your transformation,
were there some values or principles

467
00:25:25,791 --> 00:25:30,291
which stood the test of time,
something perhaps that

468
00:25:30,375 --> 00:25:33,125
you inherited from your childhood,

469
00:25:33,125 --> 00:25:37,708
a former experience
which really influenced who you became?

470
00:25:37,791 --> 00:25:40,125
Yeah, you know,
I can think of three things.

471
00:25:40,125 --> 00:25:43,000
Number one, my, my dad,

472
00:25:43,000 --> 00:25:46,041
he worked for the same company
for 50 years,

473
00:25:46,041 --> 00:25:48,916
from when he was 15 to when he was 65.

474
00:25:48,916 --> 00:25:52,916
He started as what was called a fitter
and turner and ended up as an engineer.

475
00:25:53,000 --> 00:25:57,041
And the one thing that I admired about
Dad was he was consistent.

476
00:25:57,208 --> 00:25:59,416
You know,
he said a man's word is a man's bond.

477
00:25:59,416 --> 00:26:02,208
You need to do what you say
you're going to do.

478
00:26:02,208 --> 00:26:07,541
And he was very much around
the principles of

479
00:26:07,541 --> 00:26:13,166
what a good leader should be, dependable
and reliable and a great learner.

480
00:26:13,250 --> 00:26:16,000
My mom, who lived till she was 99 years

481
00:26:16,000 --> 00:26:19,000
and nine months old, she was born in 1914.

482
00:26:19,000 --> 00:26:20,916
She only passed away about nine years ago.

483
00:26:20,916 --> 00:26:23,916
She was an adventurer
and she would always tell me,

484
00:26:24,166 --> 00:26:26,750
you know, you can
you can be anybody you want to be.

485
00:26:26,750 --> 00:26:29,208
You know,
she used to make a funny comment.

486
00:26:29,208 --> 00:26:33,500
You know, she used to say, Garry, even
the queen of England sits down to pee.

487
00:26:33,583 --> 00:26:38,125
So, you know, let's level ourselves out
and, you know, God bless Queen Elizabeth.

488
00:26:38,125 --> 00:26:39,708
She's not with us anymore.

489
00:26:39,708 --> 00:26:43,291
And then I had the opportunity
growing up to have experiences.

490
00:26:43,291 --> 00:26:45,250
You know,
I worked in the local hardware store

491
00:26:45,250 --> 00:26:49,291
and the local dry cleaning store, and
I actually worked in a local sports store.

492
00:26:49,375 --> 00:26:51,166
And that store was owned by a guy.

493
00:26:51,166 --> 00:26:52,833
His name was Jack Lambert.

494
00:26:52,833 --> 00:26:57,291
And part of what that store did,
they did repairs on tennis rackets.

495
00:26:57,375 --> 00:27:00,583
And I remember walking out into the back
workshop one day

496
00:27:00,583 --> 00:27:03,958
and he had a tennis racket
kind of in a vise, and he was pulling the

497
00:27:04,041 --> 00:27:07,291
what they used to call catgut,
which I'm sure wasn't.

498
00:27:07,291 --> 00:27:09,791
It was nylon through the holes.

499
00:27:09,791 --> 00:27:10,958
And then at the end,

500
00:27:10,958 --> 00:27:15,291
he would have a little roller
and he would turn the roller and tense

501
00:27:15,375 --> 00:27:19,500
this string
and then put a like a spike in to hold it.

502
00:27:19,750 --> 00:27:22,500
But it was always rubbing on his fingers.

503
00:27:22,500 --> 00:27:25,583
So he had lots of calluses on his fingers.

504
00:27:25,583 --> 00:27:27,958
And I remember saying to him one day,

505
00:27:28,041 --> 00:27:28,583
Hey, Mr.

506
00:27:28,583 --> 00:27:33,291
Lambert, that's damn hard work,
you know, Is that your tennis racket?

507
00:27:33,291 --> 00:27:36,041
And he said, No,
it's not my tennis racket.

508
00:27:36,041 --> 00:27:40,250
And the lesson he gave me is
he was stringing a tennis racket

509
00:27:40,250 --> 00:27:44,083
for one of the top
tennis players in Australia.

510
00:27:44,166 --> 00:27:47,208
And he said, his game tomorrow

511
00:27:47,416 --> 00:27:50,416
somewhat depends on the work
that I do today.

512
00:27:50,583 --> 00:27:53,500
And it's a bit like that story around who

513
00:27:53,500 --> 00:27:55,666
who patches your parachute.

514
00:27:55,666 --> 00:27:59,416
So our job as leaders in creating
great cultures is to remember

515
00:27:59,416 --> 00:28:02,958
that the work we're doing,
there's a lot of people depending on us.

516
00:28:03,041 --> 00:28:07,375
You know, we have no right to get in
the way of people doing good work.

517
00:28:07,458 --> 00:28:11,750
Our job is not to mark people's
paper, it's to help them get an A.

518
00:28:11,833 --> 00:28:14,958
And that's
what the how we talk about it as coaches.

519
00:28:14,958 --> 00:28:17,041
You know,
we're not managers, we're coaches.

520
00:28:17,041 --> 00:28:21,208
And if you think about a great coach,
never runs on the playing field,

521
00:28:21,250 --> 00:28:25,375
always is on the sideline
observing the play, knows the rules

522
00:28:25,375 --> 00:28:29,875
and knows what it takes to win and spends
a lot of time in the locker room

523
00:28:30,125 --> 00:28:34,708
building great camaraderie and connection.

524
00:28:34,750 --> 00:28:38,958
So, you know, we need to be coaches
and our job is not to mark people's paper,

525
00:28:39,166 --> 00:28:40,500
it's to help them get As.

526
00:28:40,500 --> 00:28:43,916
So what does that A look like and
how are we going to help people succeed?

527
00:28:44,375 --> 00:28:46,625
And coaching
is something that is overlooked.

528
00:28:46,625 --> 00:28:52,458
Definitely not in the dictionary
of most managers in my experience.

529
00:28:52,458 --> 00:28:56,375
You know, we talk about leaders
versus managers, leaders

530
00:28:56,416 --> 00:29:03,333
being those that help people
get the most out of their potential.

531
00:29:03,416 --> 00:29:05,541
But coaching specifically

532
00:29:05,541 --> 00:29:11,958
is such a core aspect of getting people to

533
00:29:12,041 --> 00:29:14,458
outperform their potential.

534
00:29:14,458 --> 00:29:15,166
Absolutely.

535
00:29:15,166 --> 00:29:18,541
And I love a quote of Adam Grant's.

536
00:29:18,541 --> 00:29:22,208
He says, “It's easy to be a critic
or a cheerleader.

537
00:29:22,291 --> 00:29:24,333
It's harder to be a coach.

538
00:29:24,333 --> 00:29:28,333
A critic sees your weaknesses and attacks
your worst self.

539
00:29:28,416 --> 00:29:33,083
A cheerleader sees your strengths
and celebrates your best self.

540
00:29:33,166 --> 00:29:35,916
A coach sees your potential

541
00:29:35,916 --> 00:29:39,250
and helps
you become a better version of yourself.”

542
00:29:39,333 --> 00:29:43,958
And in fact, the WD-40 company,
we took the word manager out.

543
00:29:43,958 --> 00:29:46,083
Everybody was called a coach.

544
00:29:46,083 --> 00:29:49,416
So if you reported to me,
I was your coach.

545
00:29:49,500 --> 00:29:53,416
So we took the word manager out,
which absolutely

546
00:29:53,500 --> 00:29:55,500
put the responsibility on a person.
You're not.

547
00:29:55,500 --> 00:30:00,250
If you manage your bank account and you
manage inventory, you don't manage people.

548
00:30:00,500 --> 00:30:03,041
What you do is help people

549
00:30:03,125 --> 00:30:05,541
become a better version of themselves.

550
00:30:05,541 --> 00:30:07,125
Which is exactly the reason

551
00:30:07,125 --> 00:30:10,625
I, I hate the term HR. Yes.

552
00:30:10,708 --> 00:30:16,125
Because that is about resources and we're
not resources to be managed and directed.

553
00:30:16,125 --> 00:30:18,750
We’re humans to be led and inspired.

554
00:30:18,750 --> 00:30:20,500
It's about... Yeah. Or coached.

555
00:30:20,500 --> 00:30:24,166
That function is really about culture
and capabilities.

556
00:30:24,166 --> 00:30:27,875
That's what it should be called:
culture and capabilities.

557
00:30:27,875 --> 00:30:32,791
And from everything that you've built

558
00:30:32,791 --> 00:30:37,958
at WD-40 in terms of culture,
what's one shining example?

559
00:30:38,000 --> 00:30:42,208
Something you'd be proud
if others stole from you?

560
00:30:42,291 --> 00:30:44,250
Well, firstly, I didn't build it.

561
00:30:44,250 --> 00:30:46,750
I didn't do this on my own.

562
00:30:46,750 --> 00:30:50,583
This is not,
you know, it's not Garry's magic.

563
00:30:50,666 --> 00:30:52,875
You know, we had the inspiration
and we brought the tools

564
00:30:52,875 --> 00:30:56,208
and I couldn't do it
without us all doing it.

565
00:30:56,208 --> 00:30:58,708
So we built it together.

566
00:30:58,791 --> 00:30:59,791
I think

567
00:30:59,791 --> 00:31:04,541
what I would like people to
to take away or to steal is

568
00:31:04,625 --> 00:31:07,250
the first thing I said
when I said with the ingredients,

569
00:31:07,250 --> 00:31:10,875
a people first mindset,
we need to care about our people.

570
00:31:10,958 --> 00:31:13,666
So, you know, be a caring organization,

571
00:31:13,666 --> 00:31:17,333
which means you've got to be both tough
minded and tenderhearted.

572
00:31:17,416 --> 00:31:19,458
And as I said, this is simple.

573
00:31:19,458 --> 00:31:21,708
It's not easy and time is not your friend.

574
00:31:21,708 --> 00:31:23,708
So you have to have consistency around it.

575
00:31:23,708 --> 00:31:26,708
So, but care. You know, life's a gift.

576
00:31:26,750 --> 00:31:28,250
Don't send it back unwrapped.

577
00:31:28,250 --> 00:31:31,708
Let's unwrap
what we need to unwrap and enjoy and

578
00:31:31,833 --> 00:31:34,416
send people home happy
and do what we need to do

579
00:31:34,416 --> 00:31:37,458
to make this world a little better place
because it needs to be better.

580
00:31:37,458 --> 00:31:38,916
It's not a happy world.

581
00:31:40,333 --> 00:31:43,541
How do you balance in practice

582
00:31:43,625 --> 00:31:45,750
caring versus...

583
00:31:45,750 --> 00:31:49,041
caring for people versus
caring about performance?

584
00:31:49,125 --> 00:31:55,041
Is this a conflicting balance
or is it a complementary balance?

585
00:31:55,041 --> 00:31:56,583
No, it's a complementary balance.

586
00:31:56,583 --> 00:32:01,083
As long as you have been very clear
about what we're going to hold each other

587
00:32:01,083 --> 00:32:02,666
accountable for.

588
00:32:02,666 --> 00:32:05,666
So, you know, most performance,

589
00:32:05,833 --> 00:32:09,083
most performance

590
00:32:09,166 --> 00:32:12,166
is really about

591
00:32:12,416 --> 00:32:15,791
have we been clear about what
I'm going to hold

592
00:32:15,791 --> 00:32:19,000
you accountable for and what are you going
to hold me accountable for?

593
00:32:19,041 --> 00:32:22,416
So there's clarity around
what are we in this together

594
00:32:22,500 --> 00:32:24,916
to achieve, which is so important.

595
00:32:25,750 --> 00:32:28,416
And how do you instill
a sense of ownership?

596
00:32:28,416 --> 00:32:31,583
So apart from the engagement,
which is the care aspect

597
00:32:31,583 --> 00:32:37,125
of your philosophy, how do you instill
a sense of ownership so that the people

598
00:32:37,208 --> 00:32:40,625
can take care of the business
while you take care of the people?

599
00:32:40,708 --> 00:32:43,041
Well, as I said, two things
people want to do.

600
00:32:43,041 --> 00:32:45,708
They want to belong
and they want to know they matter.

601
00:32:45,708 --> 00:32:47,000
So we had...

602
00:32:47,000 --> 00:32:50,000
we installed
what we call the tribal culture.

603
00:32:50,208 --> 00:32:53,041
And the tribal culture is a place where

604
00:32:53,041 --> 00:32:56,708
a group of people come together
to protect and feed each other.

605
00:32:56,791 --> 00:32:58,666
And if you... when I say tribal, it's

606
00:32:58,666 --> 00:33:02,583
not because of any reflection
of any particular indigenous group.

607
00:33:02,666 --> 00:33:07,500
It's a reflection on
we are tribal as a as a a human being.

608
00:33:07,500 --> 00:33:09,291
That's where we all started.

609
00:33:09,291 --> 00:33:13,375
So what's the number one
responsibility of a tribal leader?

610
00:33:13,375 --> 00:33:16,375
Number one responsibility
is to be a learner and a teacher.

611
00:33:16,583 --> 00:33:19,250
You know, if we were to go back in time,
thousands of years

612
00:33:19,250 --> 00:33:23,541
to my homeland of Australia and observe
a group of Indigenous Australians

613
00:33:23,541 --> 00:33:27,416
at a camp meeting,
what would the leader be doing?

614
00:33:27,500 --> 00:33:31,916
The leader would be teaching that person
to throw a boomerang. Why?

615
00:33:32,000 --> 00:33:34,750
Because the boomerang
was the tool of survival.

616
00:33:34,750 --> 00:33:37,750
So if you couldn't throw a boomerang,
you would not survive.

617
00:33:37,833 --> 00:33:42,208
So our responsibility as a leader
is to help people throw boomerangs.

618
00:33:42,291 --> 00:33:46,125
So we only do that
by continually learning and continually

619
00:33:46,125 --> 00:33:50,708
teaching, which then empowers
and helps the people grow.

620
00:33:50,833 --> 00:33:53,708
And if you help people grow,
they come back and say,

621
00:33:53,708 --> 00:33:57,083
yeah, I'm growing,
I'm able to be a better person.

622
00:33:57,083 --> 00:33:59,833
I feel better in my life.
I feel empowered.

623
00:33:59,833 --> 00:34:00,916
Now I have ownership.

624
00:34:00,916 --> 00:34:06,458
And another thing
we were discussing earlier is this

625
00:34:06,541 --> 00:34:09,541
question that Seth Godin

626
00:34:09,750 --> 00:34:13,791
posed in his latest book,
The Song of Significance, which is

627
00:34:13,875 --> 00:34:17,541
How can we build an organization

628
00:34:17,625 --> 00:34:19,333
which is someone's best

629
00:34:19,333 --> 00:34:23,125
ever job, which to me is so heartfelt.

630
00:34:23,208 --> 00:34:28,041
So if you were to

631
00:34:28,125 --> 00:34:31,125
be appointed as CEO of another company,

632
00:34:31,208 --> 00:34:34,625
with that mission, where would you start?

633
00:34:34,708 --> 00:34:37,333
I would start with the leadership.

634
00:34:37,333 --> 00:34:41,125
Is the leadership, you know,
are the leaders

635
00:34:41,166 --> 00:34:46,500
brave enough to care about their people,
to be candid with their people?

636
00:34:46,500 --> 00:34:49,541
Are they brave enough
to hold their people accountable,

637
00:34:49,666 --> 00:34:54,250
and are they brave enough
to be responsible for their behaviors?

638
00:34:54,250 --> 00:34:57,791
So, but it all starts with the leadership.

639
00:34:58,000 --> 00:34:59,666
You know,

640
00:34:59,666 --> 00:35:01,750
who are you as a leader

641
00:35:01,750 --> 00:35:04,416
and what do you have to change?

642
00:35:04,416 --> 00:35:07,041
Because that's the example that'll be set.

643
00:35:07,333 --> 00:35:12,458
So what do we as leaders need
to rethink about culture, do you think?

644
00:35:12,666 --> 00:35:14,666
It's not about you,

645
00:35:14,750 --> 00:35:16,041
it's about the

646
00:35:16,041 --> 00:35:20,583
people that you've been given
the privilege and honor to lead.

647
00:35:20,666 --> 00:35:22,291
Because

648
00:35:22,291 --> 00:35:25,541
everybody who comes to, as Bob Chapman
says,

649
00:35:25,541 --> 00:35:30,000
everybody who comes to work
every day is someone's precious child.

650
00:35:30,083 --> 00:35:31,875
I would say someone's precious child,

651
00:35:31,875 --> 00:35:35,125
husband, wife, aunty, uncle,
cousin, whatever.

652
00:35:35,208 --> 00:35:36,916
And that's a huge responsibility.

653
00:35:36,916 --> 00:35:41,125
So many things to reflect back on and

654
00:35:41,208 --> 00:35:43,958
and note,

655
00:35:43,958 --> 00:35:46,750
I love all of your

656
00:35:46,750 --> 00:35:51,958
your aphorisms
or your quotes about culture.

657
00:35:52,041 --> 00:35:54,791
One last question, Garry,
which is going back

658
00:35:54,791 --> 00:35:57,833
to that game of Two Truths and One Lie.

659
00:35:57,875 --> 00:36:03,250
So which of the three statements
is the lie and what's the truth?

660
00:36:03,458 --> 00:36:06,666
Well, believe it or not,
I actually did have an Afro hairdo

661
00:36:06,666 --> 00:36:13,458
when I was 18 years old, and I was a radio
announcer in Sydney, Australia.

662
00:36:13,458 --> 00:36:16,916
I used to do a Sunday morning radio show.

663
00:36:17,000 --> 00:36:20,541
Even though I did
play rugby, it was never first grade.

664
00:36:20,625 --> 00:36:23,833
So, so I got it right.

665
00:36:23,875 --> 00:36:25,666
You got it right. Yeah.

666
00:36:25,666 --> 00:36:29,125
Wonderful.

667
00:36:29,208 --> 00:36:31,083
Where can people find out more

668
00:36:31,083 --> 00:36:34,083
about you, Garry, and like,

669
00:36:34,250 --> 00:36:37,625
maybe follow your your leadership path?

670
00:36:37,833 --> 00:36:40,833
Well, thank you for the opportunity
to share that.

671
00:36:40,875 --> 00:36:42,000
I have a website.

672
00:36:42,000 --> 00:36:47,333
It's www.thelearningmoment.net.

673
00:36:47,375 --> 00:36:49,125
And on that

674
00:36:49,125 --> 00:36:54,166
site it has, there's also a page on that
that has probably about 20 or 30 books

675
00:36:54,166 --> 00:36:59,125
that I recommend that I update over time
that I found valuable.

676
00:36:59,208 --> 00:37:00,875
And please follow me on LinkedIn.

677
00:37:00,875 --> 00:37:05,875
It's G-A-R-R-Y-R-I-D-G-E at LinkedIn.

678
00:37:05,958 --> 00:37:10,458
I think I have about 125,000 followers

679
00:37:10,541 --> 00:37:13,500
on LinkedIn and I'd love people to join

680
00:37:13,500 --> 00:37:17,333
and I share on LinkedIn
and my experiences in my learning moments.

681
00:37:17,333 --> 00:37:19,166
So Garry, thank you for...

682
00:37:19,166 --> 00:37:24,208
from my heart for the work you've done

683
00:37:24,291 --> 00:37:27,916
for not just the people, but
also their families and their communities.

684
00:37:27,916 --> 00:37:31,666
I think more people need to think
about the impact

685
00:37:31,750 --> 00:37:36,500
of our leadership, the collective impact.

686
00:37:36,583 --> 00:37:41,208
And for everyone listening, thank you.

687
00:37:41,291 --> 00:37:45,166
And do hit the subscribe button, if
you don't want to miss the next episodes

688
00:37:45,208 --> 00:37:48,208
because there's lots of interesting guests
coming along

689
00:37:48,416 --> 00:37:52,666
and don't forget to tell us what you think
by emailing Rethink@RethinkCulture.co.

690
00:37:52,666 --> 00:37:57,000
And Keep Leading.

691
00:37:57,083 --> 00:37:57,541
Thank you.