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When you are playing a sport and you

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think in the future,

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you lose, you gotta focus on the moment.

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And I know that I was a pitcher,

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so I had to focus on every pitch.

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And if you're a hitter,

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you're focusing on every

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pitch that comes your way.

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I don't care if

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you're a basketball player

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focusing on your shot,

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a football player focusing on the ball

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that you're trying to

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catch for a touchdown,

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you gotta focus on the moment in time.

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And if you veer away from that,

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that's when we start failing.

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(upbeat music)

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Josh, it's great to have you on today.

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Really excited to hear

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about your journey so far,

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what's next, and before

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all that, how it all began.

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I know that you were

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pretty big into baseball

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at the very start.

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Could you share a little bit about

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the early arc of life in baseball?

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I wanted to be a baseball player

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like so many kids growing up.

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That was my dream.

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My first word was Bill Buckner.

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He played first base on

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the Chicago Cubs at the time.

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Wow. Later went on

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to the Red Sox and

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certainly played a role

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in the Mets victory in the World Series.

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A little bit later on.

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But for me, life was all about baseball.

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When I woke up, I was

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thinking about baseball.

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I went to sleep thinking about baseball.

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Little League was the

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most important moments

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of my childhood.

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I was playing for my life, I felt like.

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Far too serious.

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And I certainly cared a

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lot more than the other kids.

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And a long time ago, I was pretty good.

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No longer.

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(laughs) But a long, long time

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ago, I was pretty good.

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And it certainly was a dream of mine,

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through my childhood

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and into college too.

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Did you find yourself

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being obsessive with baseball?

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At the time I was, at the time I was.

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For what I'm doing now,

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I can kind of feel like

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little 12 year old Josh

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in me a little bit, just thinking, okay,

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what can I do that puts

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me at a different position

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in terms of separating

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myself from competitors?

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How can I work harder?

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How can I think differently?

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What can I do to train

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myself to be more effective

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at the time pitcher than others?

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So it was certainly

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something that I just wanted

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to excel at.

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And I think maybe obsessive

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could be the right word for it.

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So were there any other

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hobbies or obsessions you had

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from a young age that sort of lent you

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to where you are now?

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You know, it wasn't hobbies, Daniel.

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It was more of just

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that I cared about animals,

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but it wasn't in terms

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of like some philosophy

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or some deep book.

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It was just, I was just

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a kid and I just hated

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when I saw an animal in pain.

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I hated if I saw a documentary that

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showed animal suffering,

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driving down the road and

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saw an animal on the side

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of the road who was hit by a car.

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I was just very sensitive just to the

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idea of animals ever

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being in a very bad situation,

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especially at the hands of people.

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I have maybe some type of

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instinct against bullying

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and maybe because I was

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bullied when I was a kid.

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And I just feel, and I

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certainly felt at the time

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that when people do

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bad things to animals,

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it's the ultimate act of bullying

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because these animals don't have a voice.

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They can't call the principal.

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They can't have parents do

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something to protect them.

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They can't call the police or

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the local state legislature.

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They just are the ultimate victims.

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And I think that

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understanding also propelled me

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to have even further

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sensitivity just to the wrongness

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whenever animals were harmed.

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And that was at an early age.

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I certainly, this is pre-internet.

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And I didn't know the

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expanse of which humans

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could do some pretty

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bad things for animals.

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But I think my instincts

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were always pretty good

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about making sure that

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we work to try to have

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a more humane world.

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Do you remember that first

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moment of tremendous empathy

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that you felt for animals,

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a particular experience or memory?

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The first thing that I can think about

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is just being around my

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dogs that I grew up with.

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I had a dog named Hector.

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He was a big Saint

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Bernard the size of a bear.

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And when you're a little boy,

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these dogs are bigger in your view

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than maybe they are when you're an adult

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just because of the size differential.

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And he never really liked me very much,

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but he always liked my dad.

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And I just remember

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always trying to love him

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and cuddle with him and pet him,

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but he's never into it

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with me, only with my dad.

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But one day I saw the documentary

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about how animals are raised for food.

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And I just felt this

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connection in terms of

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these animals being treated so poorly

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compared to my dog at

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home being treated so well.

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And what really is the

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difference between the two?

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Shouldn't all animals be treated well?

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And it was kind of that

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connection that helped drive me

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to care about the things

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that I certainly care about today.

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What a beautiful story.

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What age were you when

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you saw this documentary?

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I believe I was about 15, 15 or 16.

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And this is back in the VHS days.

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Oh yeah.

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So for some of your listeners

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who may never have even

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seen a VHS tape before,

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but we actually went to a video store,

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which also don't exist today.

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And for whatever reason, my friend and I

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got this documentary and it was horrible.

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It showed terrible things.

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And I'm grateful forever for getting that

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because without that,

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especially in the 1990s,

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it's not the easiest thing to come across

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what's actually going

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on behind closed doors

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of these facilities

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where animals are raised

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and killed for food.

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So it was by chance

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that I saw that documentary

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and grateful for it.

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And it certainly changed my life.

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And I was always leaning

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in a certain direction,

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but it really helped illuminate the path

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that I was gonna go on.

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Maybe jumping around a little bit here,

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I think it'd be really

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interesting to hear the story

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of how you snuck in or

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came in as an investigator

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into one of these slaughterhouses.

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I think that story's really interesting.

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Well, one of my first

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jobs working to help animals

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was as an undercover investigator.

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And so these facilities

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treat animals so poorly,

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whether inside factory farms

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where 99% of animals are raised,

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these are giant windowless sheds,

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where tens of thousands, sometimes

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hundreds of thousands

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of animals are confined,

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never taking a step outside,

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never seeing sunlight,

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never feeling the grass

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underneath their feet.

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So inside these

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warehouses, bad things are going on.

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Inside the slaughterhouses,

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other bad things are going on too.

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And big animal agribusiness

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knows that ordinary Americans

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would not like to know what's happening.

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And they'll be appalled.

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And they know that certainly their

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products would suffer

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in the marketplace if

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the truth was out there.

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And so it was very hard,

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and it's still to this day

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very hard to ever get footage

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of what's actually happening.

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I think we should all be

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concerned when that's the case,

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and we're putting things in our body,

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that those that are

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producing those products

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don't want anyone to see how it's done.

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And so back then,

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Daniel, what we tried to do

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is to get jobs in facilities

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and have equipment to

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document what was occurring.

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So as one example, I got

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a job in a slaughterhouse,

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it was a chicken slaughterhouse.

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And I was hooked up with a hidden camera.

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And it was for a big chicken company.

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So I remember waking up

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super early in the morning,

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the shift started, I think

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about 4.30 AM, if I recall.

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Groggy, nervous, had this

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equipment all strapped to me

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to be able to film what

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was going on without others

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knowing what was

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happening within the facility.

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Driving in the dark in the

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early morning, getting there.

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And then walking into this

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big chicken slaughterhouse,

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you walk in kind of

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through these big doors

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to get within the big facility.

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And then within it, there's a section

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where the animals are killed.

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So I was just waiting in the locker room

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as they gave you the

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type of overalls to wear

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and the hair nets to

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put on and the gloves

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to cover your hands.

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And my anxiety was rushing, just nervous

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that I was gonna be caught, I was nervous

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what I was gonna see.

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And eventually they

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brought me and the other workers

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into what's called the shackling room.

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And that's the room

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where birds are shackled

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before they're killed.

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So I was right in line with, if I recall,

288
00:09:53,416 --> 00:09:54,291
maybe eight, 10 other

289
00:09:54,291 --> 00:09:57,791
workers where my waist was,

290
00:09:58,000 --> 00:09:59,625
there was a conveyor belt.

291
00:10:00,291 --> 00:10:01,625
And I looked to my left.

292
00:10:02,208 --> 00:10:03,416
And in my left, at the

293
00:10:03,416 --> 00:10:04,375
end of the conveyor belt

294
00:10:04,375 --> 00:10:05,416
goes to the outdoors

295
00:10:05,416 --> 00:10:07,208
where the chickens I could see

296
00:10:07,541 --> 00:10:09,291
were dumped by this giant

297
00:10:09,291 --> 00:10:10,708
truck onto the conveyor belt.

298
00:10:11,291 --> 00:10:14,166
So this massive white was approaching me.

299
00:10:14,458 --> 00:10:16,416
This is the first day on the job.

300
00:10:17,875 --> 00:10:19,958
And my heart's racing and racing.

301
00:10:20,166 --> 00:10:22,083
And I could see as I got closer,

302
00:10:22,375 --> 00:10:25,166
workers started to shackle the birds.

303
00:10:26,791 --> 00:10:29,000
And they were getting most of the birds

304
00:10:29,000 --> 00:10:30,375
until one bird got

305
00:10:30,375 --> 00:10:32,375
through to me, I was on the end.

306
00:10:32,916 --> 00:10:33,708
And I knew that was the

307
00:10:33,708 --> 00:10:34,750
moment that I would have to

308
00:10:34,750 --> 00:10:36,750
shackle the first bird for me.

309
00:10:37,541 --> 00:10:39,541
So I grabbed her leg

310
00:10:39,541 --> 00:10:40,833
and I could tell just

311
00:10:41,041 --> 00:10:42,500
and grabbing her leg that

312
00:10:42,500 --> 00:10:44,041
her legs were all twisted

313
00:10:44,500 --> 00:10:46,166
because chickens in the meat industry,

314
00:10:46,291 --> 00:10:51,000
their legs are all disjointed

315
00:10:51,291 --> 00:10:55,416
and incapable of standing on

316
00:10:55,416 --> 00:10:57,250
because of the selective breeding.

317
00:10:57,458 --> 00:10:58,375
These chickens are so

318
00:10:58,375 --> 00:11:00,375
big that they're full size

319
00:11:00,458 --> 00:11:01,708
after just about 40 days.

320
00:11:02,333 --> 00:11:03,166
So these legs that I'm

321
00:11:03,166 --> 00:11:04,416
grabbing are all twisted.

322
00:11:06,666 --> 00:11:09,291
They're certainly, in

323
00:11:09,291 --> 00:11:10,750
some cases I look down,

324
00:11:10,833 --> 00:11:11,333
they're broken.

325
00:11:12,666 --> 00:11:14,041
And when I lifted up the bird,

326
00:11:14,875 --> 00:11:16,916
she flapped her wings to try to escape.

327
00:11:17,166 --> 00:11:19,458
She pecked at my hands.

328
00:11:19,458 --> 00:11:20,541
She tried to scratch me

329
00:11:20,541 --> 00:11:22,333
to try to remove herself

330
00:11:22,333 --> 00:11:24,791
from this horrible situation she was in.

331
00:11:24,791 --> 00:11:26,000
And I shackled her.

332
00:11:26,208 --> 00:11:28,125
And that was certainly a

333
00:11:28,125 --> 00:11:29,375
profound moment in my life.

334
00:11:29,875 --> 00:11:31,750
Just thinking what we do

335
00:11:31,750 --> 00:11:33,500
to overpower these animals

336
00:11:33,500 --> 00:11:35,583
who did nothing to hurt us at all.

337
00:11:36,375 --> 00:11:38,791
And the amount of fear

338
00:11:38,791 --> 00:11:40,375
and pain we inflict on them

339
00:11:40,791 --> 00:11:41,458
is just shameful.

340
00:11:42,750 --> 00:11:45,875
And what also impacted me was knowing

341
00:11:45,958 --> 00:11:48,708
that there's nothing more important,

342
00:11:48,708 --> 00:11:49,458
at least for me

343
00:11:49,458 --> 00:11:51,458
personally, than being effective.

344
00:11:52,208 --> 00:11:53,041
Because whether I'm

345
00:11:53,041 --> 00:11:54,791
effective or not made the difference,

346
00:11:54,791 --> 00:11:55,458
whether future

347
00:11:55,458 --> 00:11:57,458
chickens were gonna have to go

348
00:11:57,458 --> 00:11:58,291
through the same type of

349
00:11:58,291 --> 00:11:59,333
pain that this chicken did.

350
00:12:00,041 --> 00:12:01,750
And so it was no longer a philosophy

351
00:12:02,208 --> 00:12:04,375
or interesting theoretical exercises

352
00:12:04,500 --> 00:12:05,666
about the treatment of animals.

353
00:12:06,625 --> 00:12:07,833
We're talking about real life here.

354
00:12:08,291 --> 00:12:09,583
We're talking about actual animals

355
00:12:10,583 --> 00:12:13,041
if most people would just

356
00:12:13,041 --> 00:12:14,041
have them sit on their lap,

357
00:12:14,041 --> 00:12:14,750
they would just pet them.

358
00:12:15,666 --> 00:12:17,750
But within the food industry,

359
00:12:18,833 --> 00:12:20,416
they're living in horrible conditions

360
00:12:21,083 --> 00:12:22,625
and killed in ways that

361
00:12:22,625 --> 00:12:24,208
would disgust our hearts.

362
00:12:25,083 --> 00:12:27,833
So that was the first moments on the job.

363
00:12:28,166 --> 00:12:30,958
I did numerous undercover investigations

364
00:12:31,291 --> 00:12:33,125
and what's called open rescues

365
00:12:33,125 --> 00:12:34,458
where I'd go into

366
00:12:34,458 --> 00:12:36,000
facilities and remove animals

367
00:12:36,000 --> 00:12:37,916
and try to get media attention on it.

368
00:12:38,875 --> 00:12:40,500
And then once you see it firsthand,

369
00:12:40,750 --> 00:12:41,958
you realize that no

370
00:12:41,958 --> 00:12:43,875
matter what you see on film

371
00:12:43,875 --> 00:12:45,958
or in photographs, being there,

372
00:12:46,500 --> 00:12:48,416
the darkness is even

373
00:12:48,416 --> 00:12:49,500
deeper than you can imagine.

374
00:12:53,833 --> 00:12:54,625
That sounds difficult.

375
00:12:56,500 --> 00:12:57,333
It sounds difficult to

376
00:12:57,333 --> 00:12:59,166
have been able to do that

377
00:12:59,333 --> 00:13:01,458
like yourself as a part

378
00:13:01,458 --> 00:13:02,250
of your investigation.

379
00:13:02,750 --> 00:13:04,958
How long did you do that, the shackling?

380
00:13:06,333 --> 00:13:08,833
So that particular job, I was there for,

381
00:13:09,541 --> 00:13:11,291
if I recall, a little over a month.

382
00:13:12,500 --> 00:13:15,375
And there were other jobs that I did

383
00:13:15,416 --> 00:13:17,250
throughout several years,

384
00:13:17,250 --> 00:13:19,291
whether it's picking up the birds

385
00:13:19,291 --> 00:13:21,000
and putting them in

386
00:13:21,000 --> 00:13:22,541
cages to be put on trucks,

387
00:13:22,541 --> 00:13:23,458
to be sent to slaughter,

388
00:13:24,458 --> 00:13:27,458
or doing the open rescues

389
00:13:27,458 --> 00:13:28,500
that I mentioned earlier

390
00:13:28,500 --> 00:13:31,333
where many years ago, what I would do

391
00:13:31,333 --> 00:13:32,250
was just go into these

392
00:13:32,250 --> 00:13:34,625
big barns, their warehouses,

393
00:13:35,708 --> 00:13:36,791
and go in there in

394
00:13:36,791 --> 00:13:37,541
the middle of the night,

395
00:13:38,583 --> 00:13:40,833
document how these animals are treated,

396
00:13:42,041 --> 00:13:44,416
take some of the birds who

397
00:13:44,416 --> 00:13:45,750
were in the most dire need

398
00:13:45,750 --> 00:13:49,041
of medical attention to a vet,

399
00:13:49,916 --> 00:13:51,625
and then eventually take

400
00:13:51,625 --> 00:13:53,208
those birds to a sanctuary

401
00:13:53,458 --> 00:13:54,291
to live out their life.

402
00:13:55,208 --> 00:13:57,333
And the idea, and

403
00:13:57,333 --> 00:13:59,333
this is the early 2000s,

404
00:13:59,333 --> 00:14:01,625
was we could get some

405
00:14:01,625 --> 00:14:02,708
good attention on this issue.

406
00:14:03,916 --> 00:14:05,333
It was very hard for anyone

407
00:14:05,333 --> 00:14:07,083
to ever even know what was going on,

408
00:14:07,083 --> 00:14:08,166
but by doing those

409
00:14:08,166 --> 00:14:09,875
things, by being open about it,

410
00:14:09,875 --> 00:14:11,458
saying, "Listen, hi, I'm Josh Bock,

411
00:14:11,458 --> 00:14:13,833
"I'm out here with these birds."

412
00:14:15,666 --> 00:14:18,625
It got a lot of coverage,

413
00:14:19,041 --> 00:14:19,833
whether it's the

414
00:14:19,833 --> 00:14:21,541
Washington Post or New York Times,

415
00:14:22,291 --> 00:14:23,833
and it expanded from there.

416
00:14:24,416 --> 00:14:24,916
So that was the

417
00:14:24,916 --> 00:14:27,083
certainly strategies we used

418
00:14:27,458 --> 00:14:28,833
in the early 2000s to

419
00:14:28,833 --> 00:14:29,666
start getting attention

420
00:14:29,875 --> 00:14:30,833
for these animals.

421
00:14:33,666 --> 00:14:35,541
I understand the emotional component

422
00:14:35,708 --> 00:14:37,291
that you've mentioned so far.

423
00:14:37,708 --> 00:14:39,625
Seeing these different animals,

424
00:14:40,250 --> 00:14:41,416
I would pet a chicken if

425
00:14:41,416 --> 00:14:42,583
it was in my lap, for sure,

426
00:14:42,583 --> 00:14:45,000
and I would hate to

427
00:14:45,000 --> 00:14:46,875
see it be put to death.

428
00:14:47,708 --> 00:14:49,416
From an ethical standpoint,

429
00:14:50,250 --> 00:14:52,666
is it fundamentally a

430
00:14:52,666 --> 00:14:54,041
defending of consciousness

431
00:14:54,333 --> 00:14:57,375
and sentience, and if so, how

432
00:14:57,375 --> 00:14:58,583
do you find where the line is?

433
00:15:00,458 --> 00:15:01,125
I think that's a

434
00:15:01,125 --> 00:15:02,333
little bit too deep for me.

435
00:15:02,833 --> 00:15:05,333
I'm more surface level of,

436
00:15:06,000 --> 00:15:07,375
I just don't like pain and suffering.

437
00:15:08,416 --> 00:15:10,333
So if I see anyone,

438
00:15:10,333 --> 00:15:10,958
I don't care whether

439
00:15:10,958 --> 00:15:12,625
it's a human or an animal,

440
00:15:12,625 --> 00:15:14,125
I don't like anyone in pain at all.

441
00:15:14,333 --> 00:15:15,625
I don't want anyone to suffer at all.

442
00:15:16,541 --> 00:15:18,791
And so how I look at it

443
00:15:18,791 --> 00:15:22,083
is less about consciousness

444
00:15:22,958 --> 00:15:24,416
and sentience, more of,

445
00:15:25,250 --> 00:15:26,833
"Hey, are these animals in pain?

446
00:15:27,625 --> 00:15:28,625
"If so, that's terrible.

447
00:15:29,208 --> 00:15:30,375
"What can I do to try to

448
00:15:30,375 --> 00:15:31,875
at least reduce their pain?"

449
00:15:32,791 --> 00:15:34,375
At least make their lives better.

450
00:15:35,166 --> 00:15:37,166
And most of my life has been

451
00:15:37,166 --> 00:15:40,166
to move animal agribusiness

452
00:15:40,166 --> 00:15:41,666
in a better direction.

453
00:15:43,625 --> 00:15:44,375
As an example,

454
00:15:45,208 --> 00:15:46,500
most chickens in the egg industry

455
00:15:46,500 --> 00:15:47,958
are confined in small cages.

456
00:15:48,541 --> 00:15:49,500
They're cages about the

457
00:15:49,500 --> 00:15:50,791
size of a home microwave.

458
00:15:52,000 --> 00:15:53,625
And imagine six, eight

459
00:15:53,625 --> 00:15:54,708
chickens in your home microwave.

460
00:15:55,208 --> 00:15:56,625
That's the way most chickens are raised

461
00:15:56,625 --> 00:15:57,250
in the United States

462
00:15:57,250 --> 00:15:57,875
and around the world.

463
00:15:58,750 --> 00:15:59,833
So much of what I've done

464
00:16:00,541 --> 00:16:01,583
is to at least move

465
00:16:01,583 --> 00:16:02,958
much of the egg industry

466
00:16:02,958 --> 00:16:04,541
to cage free systems

467
00:16:04,541 --> 00:16:05,916
where it might not be utopia.

468
00:16:06,583 --> 00:16:08,416
They may not be able to go outside.

469
00:16:09,291 --> 00:16:10,041
They might be in a barn

470
00:16:10,041 --> 00:16:11,416
with too many animals,

471
00:16:11,666 --> 00:16:12,791
thousands of other birds,

472
00:16:12,791 --> 00:16:14,000
but at least they're able to run around

473
00:16:14,125 --> 00:16:15,291
within a warehouse and

474
00:16:15,291 --> 00:16:16,875
perch and dust bathe and scratch

475
00:16:16,875 --> 00:16:18,375
and lay eggs in a nesting area.

476
00:16:19,208 --> 00:16:20,166
So rather than living a

477
00:16:20,166 --> 00:16:21,625
maybe zero out of 10 life,

478
00:16:22,416 --> 00:16:24,125
maybe go on to a five or six.

479
00:16:24,958 --> 00:16:26,416
And that seems to be

480
00:16:26,416 --> 00:16:29,833
something that is worth my life.

481
00:16:30,541 --> 00:16:32,708
So when we think about it,

482
00:16:34,000 --> 00:16:35,666
I believe everything

483
00:16:35,666 --> 00:16:37,000
that I am fighting for,

484
00:16:37,375 --> 00:16:38,458
almost everyone agrees with.

485
00:16:38,833 --> 00:16:40,333
And that's a great position to be in.

486
00:16:40,958 --> 00:16:44,458
I believe that I'm just flat mainstream.

487
00:16:45,083 --> 00:16:45,750
I just don't want

488
00:16:45,750 --> 00:16:47,208
animals confined in tiny cages

489
00:16:47,208 --> 00:16:47,958
where they can't move.

490
00:16:48,666 --> 00:16:49,166
I think they should

491
00:16:49,166 --> 00:16:50,458
be able to walk around.

492
00:16:51,833 --> 00:16:53,666
And I think that

493
00:16:53,666 --> 00:16:55,375
actually represents most people.

494
00:16:55,750 --> 00:16:57,000
It's always going on.

495
00:16:58,000 --> 00:16:58,583
Is that right?

496
00:16:59,125 --> 00:17:00,833
If most people were aware,

497
00:17:01,083 --> 00:17:02,666
but there's just not an awareness, right?

498
00:17:04,333 --> 00:17:05,750
When people know they

499
00:17:05,750 --> 00:17:07,416
are on my side for sure,

500
00:17:08,000 --> 00:17:09,583
and you're right,

501
00:17:09,875 --> 00:17:11,875
is that I believe most

502
00:17:11,875 --> 00:17:12,958
people are good people.

503
00:17:13,625 --> 00:17:14,541
I think most people

504
00:17:14,541 --> 00:17:15,833
don't like to think animals

505
00:17:17,500 --> 00:17:18,333
are suffering.

506
00:17:18,708 --> 00:17:19,958
And if they do find

507
00:17:19,958 --> 00:17:21,416
animals suffering or against it.

508
00:17:22,125 --> 00:17:24,041
And I think that's a great place to start

509
00:17:24,541 --> 00:17:25,958
is knowing that most humans

510
00:17:25,958 --> 00:17:28,458
don't want animals to suffer.

511
00:17:29,375 --> 00:17:32,083
So the question is, there's a gap.

512
00:17:32,833 --> 00:17:34,583
Most people don't want animals to suffer.

513
00:17:34,583 --> 00:17:35,000
That's good.

514
00:17:36,166 --> 00:17:38,958
However, raising animals,

515
00:17:39,000 --> 00:17:39,791
especially in the

516
00:17:39,791 --> 00:17:40,625
meat and egg industries,

517
00:17:40,916 --> 00:17:42,041
there's vast amount of suffering.

518
00:17:42,916 --> 00:17:44,583
So there's a huge gap in between.

519
00:17:45,416 --> 00:17:47,041
So how do we bridge that gap

520
00:17:47,041 --> 00:17:48,833
between how animals are raised

521
00:17:49,333 --> 00:17:50,333
and how people feel

522
00:17:50,333 --> 00:17:51,916
animals ought to be raised?

523
00:17:52,541 --> 00:17:54,583
And that's where my efforts have been

524
00:17:55,166 --> 00:17:56,708
in trying to get food companies

525
00:17:56,833 --> 00:17:58,833
to switch to things like cage for eggs

526
00:18:00,500 --> 00:18:03,208
or passing laws to ban these cage

527
00:18:03,208 --> 00:18:04,375
confinement systems.

528
00:18:04,708 --> 00:18:06,666
It's to reflect not my own views,

529
00:18:06,666 --> 00:18:07,666
but the views of most

530
00:18:07,666 --> 00:18:09,708
people in the United States

531
00:18:09,708 --> 00:18:10,833
and frankly around the world too.

532
00:18:12,750 --> 00:18:13,541
We've made some progress

533
00:18:13,541 --> 00:18:14,833
in the last 15, 20 years

534
00:18:14,833 --> 00:18:15,916
since you've been in the industry,

535
00:18:16,416 --> 00:18:17,708
Proposition 12 being a

536
00:18:17,708 --> 00:18:18,666
great example of that.

537
00:18:19,208 --> 00:18:20,791
I know that you understand

538
00:18:20,791 --> 00:18:22,083
the necessity of the baby steps

539
00:18:22,291 --> 00:18:25,833
and you're pushing folks on one end

540
00:18:25,833 --> 00:18:27,250
that are more extreme to be patient

541
00:18:27,500 --> 00:18:28,375
and folks on the other

542
00:18:28,375 --> 00:18:30,208
end who are less aware

543
00:18:30,416 --> 00:18:32,500
to take these smaller steps.

544
00:18:32,791 --> 00:18:34,500
But what does maybe the

545
00:18:34,500 --> 00:18:36,708
ideal end state look like

546
00:18:36,708 --> 00:18:38,000
in some distant future?

547
00:18:38,000 --> 00:18:38,708
Like what is like a

548
00:18:38,708 --> 00:18:41,625
perfect world look like for you,

549
00:18:42,000 --> 00:18:42,750
like from your perspective?

550
00:18:44,291 --> 00:18:45,666
Well, I don't really

551
00:18:45,666 --> 00:18:46,791
think about it that way.

552
00:18:47,333 --> 00:18:48,375
Maybe I'm wrong not to

553
00:18:48,375 --> 00:18:49,125
think about this way.

554
00:18:49,250 --> 00:18:50,458
I just believe in more

555
00:18:50,458 --> 00:18:52,041
short term endeavors.

556
00:18:53,958 --> 00:18:55,125
Bill Clinton once said,

557
00:18:55,125 --> 00:18:57,458
never think about your next election

558
00:18:57,458 --> 00:18:58,875
because the one right in front of you

559
00:18:58,875 --> 00:18:59,833
could be your last one.

560
00:19:00,666 --> 00:19:02,791
And so for me, I'm not

561
00:19:02,791 --> 00:19:06,041
envisioning some utopian world

562
00:19:06,041 --> 00:19:08,458
in 50, 100, 200 years when I'm dead.

563
00:19:08,875 --> 00:19:10,083
What I'm thinking about

564
00:19:10,083 --> 00:19:11,916
is what is going on now

565
00:19:13,416 --> 00:19:14,375
and what can I do to

566
00:19:14,375 --> 00:19:15,666
change it if it's bad?

567
00:19:16,500 --> 00:19:19,250
And Daniel, the calculation that I have

568
00:19:19,250 --> 00:19:20,791
in terms of where I focus

569
00:19:20,791 --> 00:19:22,250
is this, it's threefold.

570
00:19:22,250 --> 00:19:26,083
One, numbers, where are the farm animals

571
00:19:26,958 --> 00:19:28,541
in terms of the number

572
00:19:28,541 --> 00:19:29,500
of animals being raised?

573
00:19:29,875 --> 00:19:31,541
Is it the chicken meat industry?

574
00:19:31,833 --> 00:19:32,625
Is it the pork industry?

575
00:19:32,833 --> 00:19:33,583
Is the dairy industry?

576
00:19:33,916 --> 00:19:35,125
Where are the most number of animals?

577
00:19:35,500 --> 00:19:37,291
That's one column, next column.

578
00:19:37,625 --> 00:19:38,791
Where's the most amount of suffering?

579
00:19:39,000 --> 00:19:40,208
Because some column

580
00:19:40,208 --> 00:19:41,125
might have fewer animals

581
00:19:41,125 --> 00:19:42,125
but they might suffer more.

582
00:19:43,125 --> 00:19:44,083
And the third column,

583
00:19:44,541 --> 00:19:45,500
and this is critical,

584
00:19:45,541 --> 00:19:46,333
is tractability.

585
00:19:46,750 --> 00:19:48,250
Where can we actually make a difference?

586
00:19:48,666 --> 00:19:50,041
There could be areas of suffering that,

587
00:19:50,208 --> 00:19:51,666
my gosh, this is a challenging one.

588
00:19:51,958 --> 00:19:53,333
Maybe we go back to

589
00:19:53,333 --> 00:19:54,208
that one a couple of years

590
00:19:54,208 --> 00:19:54,791
but there's some

591
00:19:54,791 --> 00:19:55,666
things right in front of us

592
00:19:55,666 --> 00:19:57,875
we can advance, let's do that first.

593
00:19:58,416 --> 00:19:59,708
So that's how I view

594
00:19:59,708 --> 00:20:01,041
where to focus my time.

595
00:20:01,458 --> 00:20:02,166
Where the number of

596
00:20:02,166 --> 00:20:03,333
animals, where's the suffering

597
00:20:03,666 --> 00:20:04,583
and what's tractable,

598
00:20:04,583 --> 00:20:05,333
where can we advance?

599
00:20:06,000 --> 00:20:06,958
That's my framework.

600
00:20:07,750 --> 00:20:09,500
Thinking about utopia, at least that's

601
00:20:09,500 --> 00:20:11,333
not in my mind at all.

602
00:20:11,875 --> 00:20:13,000
And it's served me well,

603
00:20:13,083 --> 00:20:13,583
because it's hard enough

604
00:20:13,583 --> 00:20:15,500
for me to advance things

605
00:20:16,833 --> 00:20:17,875
in the short term, let

606
00:20:17,875 --> 00:20:19,875
alone think it's so far ahead

607
00:20:20,208 --> 00:20:20,875
in the future.

608
00:20:21,416 --> 00:20:22,916
So where do you think is the area

609
00:20:22,916 --> 00:20:24,291
of greatest traction right now?

610
00:20:25,208 --> 00:20:25,833
Cages and crates.

611
00:20:26,250 --> 00:20:28,083
So most chickens, as we

612
00:20:28,083 --> 00:20:29,041
talked about in the egg industry

613
00:20:29,041 --> 00:20:30,375
are confined to those tiny cages.

614
00:20:31,208 --> 00:20:33,916
Most mother pigs in the pork industry

615
00:20:33,916 --> 00:20:35,666
are confined in tiny cages as well.

616
00:20:35,666 --> 00:20:36,833
These are cages so narrow

617
00:20:36,833 --> 00:20:37,541
that the mother pigs

618
00:20:37,541 --> 00:20:38,541
can't even turn around.

619
00:20:39,708 --> 00:20:40,875
Pigs are as smart as dogs.

620
00:20:41,458 --> 00:20:42,500
Actually smarter than dogs

621
00:20:42,500 --> 00:20:44,416
in most scientific studies.

622
00:20:45,916 --> 00:20:46,791
And yet they're treated

623
00:20:46,791 --> 00:20:48,416
as if they're machines,

624
00:20:48,416 --> 00:20:49,291
as if they're commodities.

625
00:20:49,916 --> 00:20:51,333
These mother pigs are lined

626
00:20:51,333 --> 00:20:52,833
up in these giant warehouses

627
00:20:52,833 --> 00:20:55,833
like parked cars in these narrow cages

628
00:20:56,375 --> 00:20:58,416
barely larger than their own bodies.

629
00:20:59,000 --> 00:20:59,708
They're there for their

630
00:20:59,708 --> 00:21:01,250
entire four month pregnancy.

631
00:21:02,458 --> 00:21:03,833
They move to a different cage,

632
00:21:03,875 --> 00:21:05,750
also too small for them to turn around

633
00:21:05,750 --> 00:21:06,500
where they give birth

634
00:21:06,500 --> 00:21:08,041
and they nurse their young

635
00:21:08,250 --> 00:21:09,125
for three weeks.

636
00:21:10,041 --> 00:21:10,625
And then the cycle

637
00:21:10,625 --> 00:21:12,458
continues again and again

638
00:21:12,458 --> 00:21:13,916
and again for years on end.

639
00:21:14,208 --> 00:21:15,291
So for years, these mother

640
00:21:15,291 --> 00:21:16,458
pigs can't even turn around.

641
00:21:17,458 --> 00:21:18,333
Now that's barbaric

642
00:21:18,333 --> 00:21:20,208
treatment of any animal

643
00:21:21,208 --> 00:21:22,250
and it's certainly cruel

644
00:21:22,250 --> 00:21:23,833
to do to these mother pigs.

645
00:21:24,083 --> 00:21:25,083
And it happens by the

646
00:21:25,083 --> 00:21:26,458
millions in the United States

647
00:21:26,458 --> 00:21:28,875
and tens of millions around the world.

648
00:21:29,750 --> 00:21:33,500
So what is tractable is

649
00:21:33,500 --> 00:21:34,583
to get rid of these cages

650
00:21:34,750 --> 00:21:36,500
for chickens and these cages for pigs.

651
00:21:36,500 --> 00:21:37,791
And here's how we've done it.

652
00:21:37,791 --> 00:21:38,916
And we can go deeper later.

653
00:21:39,750 --> 00:21:41,333
What we can do is pass

654
00:21:41,333 --> 00:21:42,666
laws to ban these practices.

655
00:21:42,916 --> 00:21:44,250
You mentioned Proposition 12.

656
00:21:44,250 --> 00:21:45,166
So it was a ballot measure

657
00:21:45,166 --> 00:21:47,333
I led in 2018 in California.

658
00:21:48,541 --> 00:21:50,500
And for those listeners who don't live

659
00:21:50,500 --> 00:21:51,833
in ballot measure states,

660
00:21:51,833 --> 00:21:52,666
about half the states do

661
00:21:52,666 --> 00:21:53,666
allow a ballot measure.

662
00:21:54,500 --> 00:21:56,041
In states that allow it, a

663
00:21:56,041 --> 00:21:57,833
government gives you petitions

664
00:21:58,041 --> 00:21:58,791
where you can get

665
00:21:58,791 --> 00:21:59,875
something on the ballot.

666
00:21:59,875 --> 00:22:01,041
So when you vote for

667
00:22:01,041 --> 00:22:02,666
president or senator or governor,

668
00:22:02,958 --> 00:22:03,708
you can put your own

669
00:22:03,708 --> 00:22:04,541
question on there too,

670
00:22:04,541 --> 00:22:05,583
if you get enough signatures.

671
00:22:06,333 --> 00:22:07,500
In California, you need

672
00:22:07,500 --> 00:22:10,000
maybe 500, 600,000 signatures.

673
00:22:10,000 --> 00:22:11,041
So it's very challenging.

674
00:22:11,583 --> 00:22:12,333
But we got something

675
00:22:12,333 --> 00:22:13,958
on the ballot in 2018

676
00:22:14,833 --> 00:22:16,250
that banned the

677
00:22:16,250 --> 00:22:19,083
production and the sale of eggs,

678
00:22:19,666 --> 00:22:21,750
pork and veal from caged animals.

679
00:22:22,458 --> 00:22:23,750
So we got it on the ballot.

680
00:22:24,625 --> 00:22:25,541
And during election

681
00:22:25,541 --> 00:22:27,916
season, I was going up and down

682
00:22:27,916 --> 00:22:29,583
the state debating animal

683
00:22:29,583 --> 00:22:32,583
agribusiness on TV, on radio,

684
00:22:33,666 --> 00:22:35,500
in front of newspaper editorial boards,

685
00:22:35,708 --> 00:22:38,291
debating why it is a good

686
00:22:38,291 --> 00:22:39,625
thing to get rid of these cages.

687
00:22:40,833 --> 00:22:42,333
And hopefully encouraging people

688
00:22:42,333 --> 00:22:43,875
to vote yes for Proposition 12.

689
00:22:45,125 --> 00:22:46,541
We would do rallies, we

690
00:22:46,541 --> 00:22:47,416
would do door knocking

691
00:22:47,416 --> 00:22:48,250
and phone calls.

692
00:22:48,458 --> 00:22:50,625
It was as if I was running for

693
00:22:50,625 --> 00:22:51,791
governor, but thank goodness,

694
00:22:51,791 --> 00:22:52,916
people weren't voting for me,

695
00:22:52,916 --> 00:22:53,833
they were voting for the animals.

696
00:22:54,916 --> 00:22:56,375
And at the end of the

697
00:22:56,375 --> 00:22:58,083
day, on election day,

698
00:22:58,083 --> 00:22:59,500
we won with two thirds of the vote.

699
00:23:00,083 --> 00:23:00,583
That's incredible.

700
00:23:01,333 --> 00:23:02,458
And so what it showed

701
00:23:02,458 --> 00:23:04,333
is that ordinary people

702
00:23:04,750 --> 00:23:05,416
throughout the state,

703
00:23:05,791 --> 00:23:06,875
two thirds of them roughly,

704
00:23:07,625 --> 00:23:09,166
said, absolutely these

705
00:23:09,166 --> 00:23:10,250
animals shouldn't be confined

706
00:23:10,250 --> 00:23:10,958
in tiny cages.

707
00:23:11,333 --> 00:23:12,500
We vote to ban these

708
00:23:12,500 --> 00:23:13,666
practices in our state.

709
00:23:14,166 --> 00:23:15,833
And we've passed similar laws

710
00:23:15,833 --> 00:23:17,125
in about a dozen other

711
00:23:17,125 --> 00:23:18,833
states across the country.

712
00:23:19,250 --> 00:23:20,791
In red states, purple

713
00:23:20,791 --> 00:23:22,041
states and blue states alike,

714
00:23:22,500 --> 00:23:25,083
showing that protecting animals from harm

715
00:23:25,083 --> 00:23:27,333
can be a nonpartisan affair.

716
00:23:28,541 --> 00:23:31,083
We've also, and what I'm doing now

717
00:23:31,083 --> 00:23:31,958
is getting food

718
00:23:31,958 --> 00:23:34,583
corporations to enact policies

719
00:23:34,708 --> 00:23:36,000
to stop using eggs and

720
00:23:36,000 --> 00:23:37,375
pork from these caged animals.

721
00:23:38,333 --> 00:23:40,083
And so if we were

722
00:23:40,083 --> 00:23:42,416
talking 10 years ago, Daniel,

723
00:23:42,416 --> 00:23:43,458
we would be saying, oh

724
00:23:43,458 --> 00:23:45,333
my gosh, it's so terrible.

725
00:23:46,125 --> 00:23:48,333
The percentage of chickens out of cages

726
00:23:48,333 --> 00:23:49,291
is low single digits.

727
00:23:50,125 --> 00:23:50,791
The percentage of

728
00:23:50,791 --> 00:23:51,916
mother pigs out of cages

729
00:23:51,916 --> 00:23:53,041
is low single digits.

730
00:23:53,666 --> 00:23:55,583
Now, both in the egg

731
00:23:55,583 --> 00:23:56,750
industry and the pork industry,

732
00:23:57,416 --> 00:23:58,375
cage free is more

733
00:23:58,375 --> 00:24:00,500
than 40%, more than 40%.

734
00:24:00,833 --> 00:24:01,791
For the egg industry, that

735
00:24:01,791 --> 00:24:03,791
means more than 100 million

736
00:24:04,291 --> 00:24:05,000
egg laying hens

737
00:24:05,000 --> 00:24:06,333
annually are free from cages.

738
00:24:07,166 --> 00:24:08,000
That's a massive

739
00:24:08,000 --> 00:24:10,166
advancement to reduce suffering.

740
00:24:10,875 --> 00:24:12,416
And with the pork industry,

741
00:24:12,416 --> 00:24:13,541
that means millions of pigs

742
00:24:13,541 --> 00:24:14,916
are out of these cages as well.

743
00:24:15,333 --> 00:24:16,166
We have more to go,

744
00:24:17,250 --> 00:24:19,458
roughly 60% of the way to go,

745
00:24:19,708 --> 00:24:20,958
but we've made a lot of progress.

746
00:24:21,500 --> 00:24:23,125
And I feel very confident

747
00:24:23,125 --> 00:24:24,541
we're gonna get to the 100% mark

748
00:24:24,541 --> 00:24:25,250
in the coming years.

749
00:24:26,833 --> 00:24:27,875
So maybe switching gears a

750
00:24:27,875 --> 00:24:29,375
bit, but still connected,

751
00:24:29,375 --> 00:24:31,625
the accountability board is a very

752
00:24:31,625 --> 00:24:32,958
interesting undertaking.

753
00:24:33,250 --> 00:24:34,958
I know that it's an active investor

754
00:24:34,958 --> 00:24:36,125
in more than a hundred companies.

755
00:24:36,791 --> 00:24:38,750
How does it hold these

756
00:24:38,750 --> 00:24:40,666
companies to their commitments,

757
00:24:41,625 --> 00:24:42,291
especially like when

758
00:24:42,291 --> 00:24:43,791
it comes to verifying

759
00:24:44,458 --> 00:24:46,166
the actual numbers of

760
00:24:46,166 --> 00:24:48,416
cage free animals, et cetera?

761
00:24:49,083 --> 00:24:51,791
The accountability board is an investor

762
00:24:51,791 --> 00:24:52,875
in more than a hundred

763
00:24:52,875 --> 00:24:55,375
of the largest companies

764
00:24:55,583 --> 00:24:56,333
around the world.

765
00:24:57,208 --> 00:24:57,958
Many involved in

766
00:24:57,958 --> 00:25:00,708
agriculture, energy, tech.

767
00:25:01,583 --> 00:25:03,958
And when it comes to animal issues,

768
00:25:04,958 --> 00:25:06,375
how we hold these

769
00:25:06,375 --> 00:25:07,791
companies accountable is this,

770
00:25:08,458 --> 00:25:09,708
first, we reach out to

771
00:25:09,708 --> 00:25:10,833
the company as investors

772
00:25:11,875 --> 00:25:14,000
and we engage with executives

773
00:25:14,166 --> 00:25:15,750
related to the treatment of animals.

774
00:25:15,750 --> 00:25:17,583
And again, we work on other issues too,

775
00:25:17,583 --> 00:25:18,416
but we're gonna focus

776
00:25:18,416 --> 00:25:19,208
for this conversation

777
00:25:19,208 --> 00:25:20,041
on animal issues.

778
00:25:21,125 --> 00:25:23,541
And we ask them as shareholders,

779
00:25:23,833 --> 00:25:25,583
"Hey, where are you at on the

780
00:25:25,583 --> 00:25:26,500
commitments that you've made?

781
00:25:28,041 --> 00:25:30,500
"Are you falling through or

782
00:25:30,500 --> 00:25:31,875
have you not taken steps?"

783
00:25:32,833 --> 00:25:34,208
So as investors, we can have

784
00:25:34,208 --> 00:25:35,208
these types of conversations.

785
00:25:35,958 --> 00:25:37,083
For many of these companies,

786
00:25:38,041 --> 00:25:40,041
when things are not moving in a direction

787
00:25:40,041 --> 00:25:41,250
that we feel is appropriate,

788
00:25:41,750 --> 00:25:42,791
we file what's called

789
00:25:42,791 --> 00:25:44,083
shareholder proposals.

790
00:25:45,125 --> 00:25:46,041
Now in the United States,

791
00:25:46,458 --> 00:25:47,458
Canada and other countries,

792
00:25:47,875 --> 00:25:48,958
if you're an investor with

793
00:25:48,958 --> 00:25:49,916
a certain amount of money

794
00:25:49,916 --> 00:25:52,625
in a company, you can file a proposal

795
00:25:52,750 --> 00:25:54,208
that goes on what's called the proxy.

796
00:25:55,291 --> 00:25:57,500
Every investor gets a proxy in the mail,

797
00:25:57,500 --> 00:26:00,208
you can vote on things as an investor,

798
00:26:00,208 --> 00:26:02,833
who's on the board, executive pay.

799
00:26:02,833 --> 00:26:04,333
You also see things like revenue

800
00:26:04,333 --> 00:26:06,458
and other data from the company.

801
00:26:07,000 --> 00:26:08,583
Well, we put something on there too.

802
00:26:09,791 --> 00:26:11,083
And it's a proposal that

803
00:26:11,083 --> 00:26:13,208
shareholders can vote on.

804
00:26:14,666 --> 00:26:18,916
And what happens is that we file with the

805
00:26:18,916 --> 00:26:20,291
company in the fall.

806
00:26:20,750 --> 00:26:21,625
That's how you do it.

807
00:26:21,625 --> 00:26:22,458
You send the proposal

808
00:26:22,458 --> 00:26:23,458
to the company saying,

809
00:26:23,625 --> 00:26:25,833
hi, company, usually it's

810
00:26:25,833 --> 00:26:26,833
the general counsel's office,

811
00:26:27,416 --> 00:26:29,833
general counsel, this is our proposal

812
00:26:30,166 --> 00:26:32,416
that it would be put on the proxy

813
00:26:32,416 --> 00:26:34,500
to be voted on in the spring.

814
00:26:35,625 --> 00:26:36,791
Let us know if you'd like to talk.

815
00:26:37,875 --> 00:26:39,750
So between the fall and

816
00:26:39,750 --> 00:26:41,333
the spring of the next year,

817
00:26:41,833 --> 00:26:43,500
that's the negotiating time when

818
00:26:43,500 --> 00:26:45,375
companies by and large

819
00:26:45,833 --> 00:26:47,500
come to us and say, hey, we got your

820
00:26:47,500 --> 00:26:48,875
proposal, let's talk.

821
00:26:49,125 --> 00:26:49,666
Maybe we can find

822
00:26:49,666 --> 00:26:51,500
some middle ground here.

823
00:26:51,916 --> 00:26:53,541
And that's when we have these discussions

824
00:26:53,916 --> 00:26:55,750
with executives at these companies.

825
00:26:56,791 --> 00:26:59,208
And we have been able to have many

826
00:26:59,208 --> 00:27:00,375
of the largest advancements,

827
00:27:00,708 --> 00:27:01,541
the most impactful

828
00:27:01,541 --> 00:27:03,166
advancements for farm animals

829
00:27:03,166 --> 00:27:04,791
in history through these discussions.

830
00:27:05,833 --> 00:27:06,666
So as an example,

831
00:27:07,875 --> 00:27:09,500
McDonald's switched all of their eggs

832
00:27:09,500 --> 00:27:11,166
to cage free in the United States

833
00:27:11,583 --> 00:27:13,166
and kind of two years faster,

834
00:27:13,583 --> 00:27:14,791
two years faster than the

835
00:27:14,791 --> 00:27:15,875
originally even planned.

836
00:27:15,875 --> 00:27:18,541
And they use 2 billion eggs a year.

837
00:27:18,916 --> 00:27:20,583
That's incredible. 2 billion eggs a year.

838
00:27:20,708 --> 00:27:21,583
Talk about impact.

839
00:27:22,333 --> 00:27:23,000
Imagine how many

840
00:27:23,000 --> 00:27:25,583
individuals we would have to persuade

841
00:27:25,583 --> 00:27:27,666
to stop buying eggs from

842
00:27:27,666 --> 00:27:28,916
chickens confining cages

843
00:27:29,125 --> 00:27:30,083
compared to persuading

844
00:27:30,083 --> 00:27:31,916
one company like McDonald's

845
00:27:32,333 --> 00:27:33,750
to switch to cage for eggs.

846
00:27:33,875 --> 00:27:34,708
That's the efficiency

847
00:27:34,708 --> 00:27:36,666
of working with companies

848
00:27:37,250 --> 00:27:39,708
to make type of large scale change that

849
00:27:39,708 --> 00:27:40,666
we're looking to do.

850
00:27:40,666 --> 00:27:42,333
So McDonald's is one example,

851
00:27:42,333 --> 00:27:44,166
but we've worked with and gotten

852
00:27:44,666 --> 00:27:46,666
virtually every fast food chain,

853
00:27:47,791 --> 00:27:48,833
whether it's Burger King

854
00:27:48,833 --> 00:27:51,708
or Arby's or Taco Bell,

855
00:27:52,250 --> 00:27:53,333
virtually every family,

856
00:27:53,833 --> 00:27:56,333
breakfast chain like Cracker Barrel

857
00:27:56,666 --> 00:27:58,083
or Denny's or IHOP,

858
00:27:58,541 --> 00:27:59,916
consumer packaged good companies

859
00:28:00,125 --> 00:28:01,458
like Kraft Heinz,

860
00:28:01,458 --> 00:28:03,000
Unilever, food service companies

861
00:28:03,000 --> 00:28:05,541
like Aramark, Sadexo and

862
00:28:05,541 --> 00:28:07,291
many grocery stores as well

863
00:28:07,666 --> 00:28:10,500
to switch all of their eggs to cage free

864
00:28:11,291 --> 00:28:12,125
or at least create

865
00:28:12,125 --> 00:28:13,666
benchmarks that they are hitting

866
00:28:13,958 --> 00:28:17,208
on their path to get to 100% cage free.

867
00:28:17,791 --> 00:28:19,916
So that's how we get these advancements.

868
00:28:20,666 --> 00:28:22,083
I think it's as effective as

869
00:28:22,083 --> 00:28:24,333
it comes to creating change.

870
00:28:25,041 --> 00:28:28,791
It's also a way to create change

871
00:28:28,791 --> 00:28:29,500
in the most

872
00:28:29,500 --> 00:28:31,625
professional high level manner

873
00:28:32,416 --> 00:28:33,958
that at least I'm aware of.

874
00:28:34,333 --> 00:28:35,250
And I'm proud about the

875
00:28:35,250 --> 00:28:36,458
success we've had so far.

876
00:28:37,375 --> 00:28:39,250
How much of a stake do you have to take

877
00:28:39,250 --> 00:28:40,041
in order to be able to

878
00:28:40,041 --> 00:28:41,041
submit such proposals?

879
00:28:43,291 --> 00:28:46,791
By US law, you need more

880
00:28:46,791 --> 00:28:49,166
than $25,000 in a company

881
00:28:49,166 --> 00:28:51,125
to have at least for one year.

882
00:28:51,833 --> 00:28:52,833
And then that amount is

883
00:28:52,833 --> 00:28:55,208
reduced subsequent years.

884
00:28:56,041 --> 00:28:58,291
So you can do those

885
00:28:58,291 --> 00:29:00,166
proposals, anything above that amount.

886
00:29:00,958 --> 00:29:03,541
You can own $5 billion in our

887
00:29:03,541 --> 00:29:05,208
company or a million dollars

888
00:29:05,208 --> 00:29:07,000
or just above the 25,000.

889
00:29:07,541 --> 00:29:08,375
But you have to have at

890
00:29:08,375 --> 00:29:11,666
least the $25,000 in a company

891
00:29:11,666 --> 00:29:12,666
for the first year.

892
00:29:13,791 --> 00:29:15,333
Is there like a point

893
00:29:15,333 --> 00:29:16,125
of diminishing returns

894
00:29:16,125 --> 00:29:17,458
after that first 25K?

895
00:29:17,875 --> 00:29:18,958
Or in theory, you

896
00:29:18,958 --> 00:29:20,375
could just have 2.5 million

897
00:29:20,375 --> 00:29:21,416
for those hundred companies

898
00:29:22,000 --> 00:29:23,791
and be able to accomplish

899
00:29:23,791 --> 00:29:24,541
what you need to accomplish.

900
00:29:26,166 --> 00:29:26,958
For shareholder

901
00:29:26,958 --> 00:29:28,500
proposals to be successful,

902
00:29:29,291 --> 00:29:30,500
you have to write in a way

903
00:29:30,500 --> 00:29:33,083
that doesn't just appeal to you.

904
00:29:33,083 --> 00:29:34,666
Even if you have a million dollars, a

905
00:29:34,666 --> 00:29:35,375
hundred million dollars,

906
00:29:35,375 --> 00:29:36,333
even a billion dollars,

907
00:29:36,791 --> 00:29:37,916
you have to do it in a way

908
00:29:37,916 --> 00:29:38,750
that actually would appeal

909
00:29:38,916 --> 00:29:41,166
to the majority of

910
00:29:41,166 --> 00:29:42,375
ownership of the company

911
00:29:42,875 --> 00:29:44,125
in order for the proposal

912
00:29:44,125 --> 00:29:45,833
to have any strength to it.

913
00:29:46,500 --> 00:29:48,708
So I would say that your right

914
00:29:49,083 --> 00:29:51,000
is that there are diminishing returns.

915
00:29:52,208 --> 00:29:55,708
We always craft every proposal as if

916
00:29:55,708 --> 00:29:58,583
shareholders have no,

917
00:29:59,083 --> 00:29:59,833
I'm not saying this is

918
00:29:59,833 --> 00:30:02,166
true, but we write it in a way

919
00:30:02,166 --> 00:30:04,041
as if they have no ethics related to the

920
00:30:04,041 --> 00:30:04,500
treatment of animals,

921
00:30:04,750 --> 00:30:05,416
they just care about the

922
00:30:05,416 --> 00:30:06,333
profits of the company.

923
00:30:06,833 --> 00:30:08,583
And we want to make sure that we hit

924
00:30:08,583 --> 00:30:10,333
an important social issue.

925
00:30:11,375 --> 00:30:13,125
Also in a way where investors

926
00:30:13,125 --> 00:30:14,666
like, this makes sense to me.

927
00:30:15,416 --> 00:30:17,458
Whether the issue itself

928
00:30:17,458 --> 00:30:19,000
resonates with them or not,

929
00:30:19,458 --> 00:30:21,083
they still feel, you know what?

930
00:30:21,083 --> 00:30:22,500
I think the company should do this.

931
00:30:23,541 --> 00:30:24,791
I've noticed that reading

932
00:30:24,791 --> 00:30:26,333
about the different kinds

933
00:30:26,333 --> 00:30:27,250
of work that you do,

934
00:30:27,500 --> 00:30:29,416
you're always trying to convince

935
00:30:30,416 --> 00:30:31,291
capitalists where their

936
00:30:31,291 --> 00:30:32,375
capitalist incentive lies.

937
00:30:33,416 --> 00:30:35,083
I think that's a very interesting take.

938
00:30:35,083 --> 00:30:36,375
It's one of the things

939
00:30:36,375 --> 00:30:37,375
I find most interesting

940
00:30:37,375 --> 00:30:38,125
about your work.

941
00:30:38,958 --> 00:30:42,333
Have you ever found it difficult to

942
00:30:42,333 --> 00:30:44,375
convince an investor

943
00:30:45,083 --> 00:30:46,416
where they could

944
00:30:46,416 --> 00:30:47,583
actually be making more money,

945
00:30:47,583 --> 00:30:48,583
but they had a fundamental

946
00:30:48,583 --> 00:30:51,333
difference in ethical view?

947
00:30:53,083 --> 00:30:55,500
I have never found an investor

948
00:30:56,375 --> 00:30:58,250
have a different ethical view

949
00:30:58,250 --> 00:31:00,333
related to any of the issues

950
00:31:00,333 --> 00:31:01,333
we're pushing forward.

951
00:31:02,333 --> 00:31:06,458
The areas where investors often ask is,

952
00:31:07,125 --> 00:31:08,541
"Hey, I might agree

953
00:31:08,541 --> 00:31:09,666
with you on this issue,

954
00:31:09,916 --> 00:31:12,083
"on a personal note, but

955
00:31:12,083 --> 00:31:13,916
tell me I have to go back

956
00:31:13,916 --> 00:31:16,208
"to our team to say, how will this help

957
00:31:16,208 --> 00:31:17,208
the bottom line too?"

958
00:31:18,458 --> 00:31:20,333
And I get that.

959
00:31:21,583 --> 00:31:23,791
And fortunately, there's

960
00:31:23,791 --> 00:31:26,125
nothing that we advocate

961
00:31:26,916 --> 00:31:29,083
that we encourage companies to do

962
00:31:29,583 --> 00:31:31,333
that will harm shareholders.

963
00:31:31,750 --> 00:31:32,666
In fact, it's the opposite.

964
00:31:34,125 --> 00:31:35,875
As an example, when

965
00:31:35,875 --> 00:31:36,916
we work with companies

966
00:31:37,208 --> 00:31:39,916
to switch to cage-free eggs,

967
00:31:39,916 --> 00:31:41,583
to stop using eggs from cage chickens,

968
00:31:42,291 --> 00:31:43,250
of course that means

969
00:31:43,250 --> 00:31:44,375
better treatment of the animals.

970
00:31:44,583 --> 00:31:45,166
That's obvious.

971
00:31:46,000 --> 00:31:47,250
However, it also means

972
00:31:47,250 --> 00:31:49,375
less food safety risk.

973
00:31:50,000 --> 00:31:52,208
It also means being ahead of regulation

974
00:31:52,416 --> 00:31:54,125
with companies typically like to do.

975
00:31:54,541 --> 00:31:56,916
It means a higher quality of products.

976
00:31:57,625 --> 00:31:59,333
It also means higher

977
00:31:59,333 --> 00:32:01,250
trust among consumers.

978
00:32:02,083 --> 00:32:03,791
So those are all true arguments

979
00:32:04,708 --> 00:32:05,625
about shifting to

980
00:32:05,625 --> 00:32:06,916
cage-free eggs as an example.

981
00:32:08,416 --> 00:32:11,000
In addition to the basic argument

982
00:32:11,000 --> 00:32:11,666
that these animals

983
00:32:11,666 --> 00:32:12,291
shouldn't have been treated

984
00:32:12,500 --> 00:32:14,208
in this cruel and inhumane way either.

985
00:32:15,083 --> 00:32:17,250
So holistically, the issues we push,

986
00:32:18,416 --> 00:32:20,000
one of the reasons why we're successful

987
00:32:20,291 --> 00:32:22,083
is because they are

988
00:32:22,083 --> 00:32:25,041
embraced by a whole host of people

989
00:32:25,041 --> 00:32:26,541
no matter where they're coming from

990
00:32:26,708 --> 00:32:27,541
and no matter where the

991
00:32:27,541 --> 00:32:30,000
investment community views

992
00:32:30,333 --> 00:32:31,875
this particular social issue.

993
00:32:33,333 --> 00:32:35,125
You mentioned food safety risk.

994
00:32:35,125 --> 00:32:37,083
Is that primarily as it concerns

995
00:32:37,083 --> 00:32:38,666
antibiotics and pandemics?

996
00:32:40,416 --> 00:32:42,250
It has less to do with antibiotics.

997
00:32:42,708 --> 00:32:43,333
Antibiotics aren't

998
00:32:43,333 --> 00:32:44,833
typically used in the egg industry.

999
00:32:45,458 --> 00:32:46,958
It typically has to do

1000
00:32:46,958 --> 00:32:47,916
with the amount of stress

1001
00:32:47,916 --> 00:32:49,666
these chickens are forced to endure

1002
00:32:49,666 --> 00:32:51,166
when they're confined in small cages.

1003
00:32:52,208 --> 00:32:53,833
So picture eight

1004
00:32:53,833 --> 00:32:55,250
chickens confined in a cage size

1005
00:32:55,416 --> 00:32:57,000
or home microwave, they

1006
00:32:57,000 --> 00:32:59,541
can't move even an inch

1007
00:32:59,750 --> 00:33:01,083
without bumping into another

1008
00:33:01,083 --> 00:33:02,750
bird within that small cage.

1009
00:33:03,791 --> 00:33:05,375
They can't even extend their wings,

1010
00:33:05,500 --> 00:33:06,291
meaning that they're

1011
00:33:06,291 --> 00:33:07,833
constantly frustrated

1012
00:33:08,916 --> 00:33:10,416
and filled with

1013
00:33:10,416 --> 00:33:11,708
suffering throughout their life.

1014
00:33:12,250 --> 00:33:13,291
They never even stand

1015
00:33:13,291 --> 00:33:14,541
on solid ground ever.

1016
00:33:14,541 --> 00:33:16,916
They're forced to eat, sleep, defecate,

1017
00:33:16,916 --> 00:33:17,875
and lay eggs in the

1018
00:33:17,875 --> 00:33:19,208
same small spot every day

1019
00:33:19,208 --> 00:33:19,833
their whole life.

1020
00:33:20,708 --> 00:33:23,541
And because of that, stressed out birds,

1021
00:33:24,083 --> 00:33:26,333
who are having a real tough life

1022
00:33:27,333 --> 00:33:29,458
are more likely to get sick

1023
00:33:30,208 --> 00:33:31,875
and spread things like salmonella.

1024
00:33:32,416 --> 00:33:34,000
And that's why organizations like the

1025
00:33:34,000 --> 00:33:35,208
Center for Food Safety

1026
00:33:35,416 --> 00:33:36,708
advocate for the egg industry

1027
00:33:36,708 --> 00:33:38,958
to switch to cage free eggs.

1028
00:33:40,208 --> 00:33:42,833
Same thing related to food quality,

1029
00:33:43,958 --> 00:33:46,541
even high-end restaurants,

1030
00:33:47,250 --> 00:33:49,083
whose chefs may not have much concern

1031
00:33:49,083 --> 00:33:50,000
for the treatment of chickens,

1032
00:33:50,916 --> 00:33:52,541
use products from

1033
00:33:52,541 --> 00:33:54,000
places that are cage free

1034
00:33:54,000 --> 00:33:56,000
or free range where birds even go outside

1035
00:33:56,416 --> 00:33:57,125
because they feel that

1036
00:33:57,125 --> 00:33:58,208
the quality of the products

1037
00:33:58,791 --> 00:33:59,666
are certainly better

1038
00:33:59,666 --> 00:34:01,541
than products from animals

1039
00:34:01,541 --> 00:34:02,875
who were barely able to

1040
00:34:02,875 --> 00:34:04,666
move an inch their entire life.

1041
00:34:07,708 --> 00:34:10,166
I believe that I read a few years back

1042
00:34:10,333 --> 00:34:11,625
that cortisol from

1043
00:34:11,625 --> 00:34:13,208
stress and the hormones

1044
00:34:13,208 --> 00:34:14,583
that are injected into

1045
00:34:14,583 --> 00:34:15,666
the different animals

1046
00:34:15,666 --> 00:34:16,291
that we're eating,

1047
00:34:17,416 --> 00:34:18,458
these cortisol and

1048
00:34:18,458 --> 00:34:19,625
hormones are often passed

1049
00:34:19,916 --> 00:34:22,291
on to us humans and also affecting

1050
00:34:23,000 --> 00:34:24,833
how the onset of puberty looks like,

1051
00:34:24,875 --> 00:34:26,708
sometimes causing it to happen earlier.

1052
00:34:26,958 --> 00:34:27,833
Is this true?

1053
00:34:29,875 --> 00:34:31,833
I'm not sure about the science on that.

1054
00:34:31,833 --> 00:34:32,791
What I can tell you is

1055
00:34:32,791 --> 00:34:34,416
that certainly people,

1056
00:34:35,041 --> 00:34:36,000
human beings are

1057
00:34:36,000 --> 00:34:37,791
approaching puberty sooner

1058
00:34:38,750 --> 00:34:40,041
than in past generations.

1059
00:34:40,041 --> 00:34:41,500
I know a lot of folks claim

1060
00:34:41,500 --> 00:34:44,416
it's because of milk consumption

1061
00:34:45,083 --> 00:34:49,333
and the type of hormones and other things

1062
00:34:49,500 --> 00:34:52,166
that are put into dairy cows

1063
00:34:52,708 --> 00:34:54,500
to push them to produce more milk.

1064
00:34:55,458 --> 00:34:58,375
What I will also add is that

1065
00:34:58,375 --> 00:35:00,250
how animals are raised today

1066
00:35:00,250 --> 00:35:02,416
is so far from natural

1067
00:35:02,416 --> 00:35:04,875
that it's no wonder why

1068
00:35:05,166 --> 00:35:06,250
it's causing a lot of

1069
00:35:06,250 --> 00:35:07,541
serious health implications

1070
00:35:07,791 --> 00:35:08,583
to consumers.

1071
00:35:09,833 --> 00:35:10,791
So if you think about

1072
00:35:10,791 --> 00:35:12,541
chickens who were raised

1073
00:35:13,583 --> 00:35:16,041
pre-World War II, almost all the chickens

1074
00:35:16,041 --> 00:35:17,166
were running around outside

1075
00:35:18,166 --> 00:35:19,625
they typically had a good

1076
00:35:19,625 --> 00:35:22,083
life until the last minutes.

1077
00:35:22,833 --> 00:35:23,958
They're out there,

1078
00:35:23,958 --> 00:35:25,458
scratching on the ground,

1079
00:35:26,000 --> 00:35:28,250
looking for seeds, eating bugs

1080
00:35:28,250 --> 00:35:31,791
and they were strong and

1081
00:35:31,791 --> 00:35:33,958
they were able to actually walk.

1082
00:35:35,458 --> 00:35:36,666
These days is far different.

1083
00:35:37,250 --> 00:35:37,708
Chickens in a mean

1084
00:35:37,708 --> 00:35:38,666
history are packed together

1085
00:35:38,666 --> 00:35:39,583
in these warehouses where

1086
00:35:39,583 --> 00:35:40,708
they can barely move an inch.

1087
00:35:40,708 --> 00:35:41,250
They're so packed

1088
00:35:41,250 --> 00:35:42,500
together by the end of their life

1089
00:35:42,833 --> 00:35:43,833
and they can barely walk

1090
00:35:43,833 --> 00:35:45,666
because they're so obese.

1091
00:35:46,500 --> 00:35:48,583
And as mentioned before,

1092
00:35:49,125 --> 00:35:50,208
they're killed a

1093
00:35:50,208 --> 00:35:51,791
little past 40 days of age.

1094
00:35:52,541 --> 00:35:54,041
So all chicken meat in the United States

1095
00:35:54,208 --> 00:35:55,166
comes from baby chickens.

1096
00:35:56,375 --> 00:35:56,916
And that's because

1097
00:35:56,916 --> 00:35:58,208
they've been selectively bred

1098
00:35:58,208 --> 00:35:59,500
to grow so fast.

1099
00:36:00,416 --> 00:36:02,250
Talk about eating products that are

1100
00:36:02,250 --> 00:36:03,875
completely unnatural.

1101
00:36:05,541 --> 00:36:08,333
With eggs, buying eggs

1102
00:36:08,333 --> 00:36:09,416
from chickens confining cages,

1103
00:36:09,666 --> 00:36:12,000
what an unnatural way to raise an animal.

1104
00:36:12,291 --> 00:36:13,375
Confining an animal in a cage

1105
00:36:13,375 --> 00:36:14,750
where they can't even extend their limbs

1106
00:36:15,166 --> 00:36:16,750
or a pig unable to turn around.

1107
00:36:17,083 --> 00:36:19,000
The unnaturalness of

1108
00:36:19,000 --> 00:36:20,500
animal products these days

1109
00:36:21,541 --> 00:36:23,333
is certainly an area of concern

1110
00:36:24,166 --> 00:36:24,500
and the

1111
00:36:24,500 --> 00:36:27,166
over-consumption of these products

1112
00:36:27,666 --> 00:36:30,041
has led to an increase of heart disease,

1113
00:36:31,375 --> 00:36:35,166
of cancer, diabetes and other ailments

1114
00:36:36,083 --> 00:36:39,208
when these are the type of health issues

1115
00:36:39,791 --> 00:36:41,875
that were not prominent, you

1116
00:36:41,875 --> 00:36:43,916
know, 50, 100, 200 years ago.

1117
00:36:44,708 --> 00:36:46,333
So certainly how we're raising animals

1118
00:36:46,333 --> 00:36:47,458
has had a detrimental

1119
00:36:47,458 --> 00:36:49,458
effect on consumers for sure.

1120
00:36:50,625 --> 00:36:51,958
How much better off are the chickens

1121
00:36:52,166 --> 00:36:52,791
that are laying the

1122
00:36:52,791 --> 00:36:54,291
cage-free eggs for McDonald's?

1123
00:36:54,666 --> 00:36:55,375
I mean, I'm sure that

1124
00:36:55,375 --> 00:36:57,125
McDonald's isn't, you know,

1125
00:36:57,125 --> 00:36:58,541
taking them back to the good old days

1126
00:36:58,541 --> 00:36:59,416
from how we raised

1127
00:36:59,416 --> 00:37:00,833
animals hundreds of years ago.

1128
00:37:01,083 --> 00:37:02,750
I'm sure it's some kind of baby step.

1129
00:37:03,500 --> 00:37:04,125
What does it actually

1130
00:37:04,125 --> 00:37:05,041
look like in practice?

1131
00:37:06,708 --> 00:37:07,958
You're right, it's not utopia.

1132
00:37:08,750 --> 00:37:11,291
We're not picturing, you know,

1133
00:37:11,291 --> 00:37:12,291
you Daniel having 12

1134
00:37:12,291 --> 00:37:13,166
chickens in your backyard

1135
00:37:13,791 --> 00:37:15,375
and every morning you give

1136
00:37:15,375 --> 00:37:17,291
the chickens feed by hand

1137
00:37:17,291 --> 00:37:18,666
and you travel them in at

1138
00:37:18,666 --> 00:37:19,916
night, that's not the case.

1139
00:37:21,291 --> 00:37:23,083
What is the case is

1140
00:37:23,083 --> 00:37:25,250
that they are out of cages,

1141
00:37:26,916 --> 00:37:28,166
they are able to run

1142
00:37:28,166 --> 00:37:30,166
around within a warehouse,

1143
00:37:30,541 --> 00:37:32,166
unable to go outside, that's not ideal.

1144
00:37:32,833 --> 00:37:34,458
There's still thousands of other birds

1145
00:37:34,458 --> 00:37:35,291
that's still too many

1146
00:37:36,375 --> 00:37:37,666
but they can engage in

1147
00:37:37,666 --> 00:37:39,291
basic behavioral needs.

1148
00:37:39,875 --> 00:37:41,083
And if you compare being

1149
00:37:41,083 --> 00:37:42,291
confined in a tiny cage

1150
00:37:42,375 --> 00:37:43,791
where you can't move to

1151
00:37:43,791 --> 00:37:46,250
being raised within a warehouse,

1152
00:37:46,250 --> 00:37:47,541
we're at least able to run around

1153
00:37:48,041 --> 00:37:49,500
and you can perch and

1154
00:37:49,500 --> 00:37:52,000
engage in activities

1155
00:37:52,208 --> 00:37:53,041
with the other chickens

1156
00:37:53,166 --> 00:37:55,541
because chickens are social creatures

1157
00:37:55,708 --> 00:37:57,208
so they like to hang out with each other.

1158
00:37:57,958 --> 00:37:58,916
If you're able to lay eggs

1159
00:37:58,916 --> 00:38:00,083
in a nest if you're a chicken,

1160
00:38:00,333 --> 00:38:01,375
these are all serious

1161
00:38:01,375 --> 00:38:03,000
advancements for these chickens.

1162
00:38:04,208 --> 00:38:05,416
Now, you and I might

1163
00:38:05,416 --> 00:38:07,125
not know what it's like

1164
00:38:07,250 --> 00:38:10,500
to have the need to lay an egg in a nest.

1165
00:38:11,083 --> 00:38:12,375
(laughs) We never will.

1166
00:38:12,833 --> 00:38:14,333
But I can tell you it

1167
00:38:14,333 --> 00:38:15,458
matters a lot to chickens.

1168
00:38:16,000 --> 00:38:16,750
It really does.

1169
00:38:17,250 --> 00:38:18,041
And in these cages they

1170
00:38:18,041 --> 00:38:19,750
literally never can do it.

1171
00:38:19,750 --> 00:38:20,708
They have to lay eggs

1172
00:38:20,708 --> 00:38:21,875
confined with the other chickens

1173
00:38:21,875 --> 00:38:22,416
in those cages.

1174
00:38:22,916 --> 00:38:25,416
But in all the cage free barns

1175
00:38:25,416 --> 00:38:26,291
that are producing eggs

1176
00:38:26,291 --> 00:38:27,875
for McDonald's and cage free

1177
00:38:27,875 --> 00:38:29,541
for the rest of the United States,

1178
00:38:29,916 --> 00:38:30,833
they do have nest

1179
00:38:30,833 --> 00:38:32,083
boxes where chickens go in

1180
00:38:32,083 --> 00:38:32,708
and lay their eggs.

1181
00:38:33,208 --> 00:38:35,500
And that is a massive step forward

1182
00:38:35,750 --> 00:38:36,666
for the treatment of these chickens.

1183
00:38:37,958 --> 00:38:39,000
And that's also goes to

1184
00:38:39,000 --> 00:38:40,500
show how bad things were

1185
00:38:40,958 --> 00:38:42,791
when we have to celebrate the idea

1186
00:38:42,791 --> 00:38:44,833
that chickens are laying eggs in a nest.

1187
00:38:44,833 --> 00:38:47,916
That should be baseline bottom standard.

1188
00:38:48,666 --> 00:38:51,000
Yet we had to fight and crawl

1189
00:38:51,666 --> 00:38:53,583
to get to that baseline bottom standard

1190
00:38:53,833 --> 00:38:55,125
because of how badly

1191
00:38:55,125 --> 00:38:56,375
things have been going

1192
00:38:56,833 --> 00:38:57,958
for decades on end

1193
00:38:57,958 --> 00:38:59,041
within the egg industry

1194
00:38:59,041 --> 00:39:00,250
in terms of the treatment of chickens.

1195
00:39:02,041 --> 00:39:03,625
Do you think it's harder to hold

1196
00:39:03,625 --> 00:39:04,583
companies accountable

1197
00:39:04,791 --> 00:39:06,500
for their existing commitments

1198
00:39:06,708 --> 00:39:08,291
or to get companies to

1199
00:39:08,291 --> 00:39:09,625
make new commitments?

1200
00:39:12,208 --> 00:39:13,541
It's equally challenging.

1201
00:39:13,833 --> 00:39:14,125
Yeah.

1202
00:39:15,000 --> 00:39:15,875
Equally challenging.

1203
00:39:17,958 --> 00:39:20,916
Some companies actually want to do good.

1204
00:39:22,208 --> 00:39:24,375
And some companies as an example,

1205
00:39:24,791 --> 00:39:26,583
companies like Unilever,

1206
00:39:26,958 --> 00:39:27,708
which is one of the

1207
00:39:27,708 --> 00:39:29,000
largest consumer package

1208
00:39:29,000 --> 00:39:30,250
good companies on earth.

1209
00:39:31,291 --> 00:39:32,416
This is a company that has

1210
00:39:32,416 --> 00:39:34,750
been a leader to try to move

1211
00:39:35,083 --> 00:39:36,333
the cosmetic industry

1212
00:39:36,333 --> 00:39:37,500
away from animal testing,

1213
00:39:37,500 --> 00:39:38,416
has been a leader in

1214
00:39:38,416 --> 00:39:40,250
switching to cage free eggs,

1215
00:39:40,500 --> 00:39:43,291
has been a leader of advancing more

1216
00:39:43,291 --> 00:39:44,541
plant-based offerings

1217
00:39:44,791 --> 00:39:45,458
for consumers.

1218
00:39:46,208 --> 00:39:46,958
And that's a thriving

1219
00:39:46,958 --> 00:39:48,000
company, good for them

1220
00:39:48,375 --> 00:39:49,416
for showing how capitalism

1221
00:39:49,416 --> 00:39:51,041
can do very good for the world.

1222
00:39:52,583 --> 00:39:53,375
That is the minority.

1223
00:39:55,000 --> 00:39:57,291
Most companies do have to

1224
00:39:57,291 --> 00:39:58,833
be pushed to move forward.

1225
00:39:59,583 --> 00:40:01,000
And what I have found is

1226
00:40:01,000 --> 00:40:02,916
that I believe most people

1227
00:40:02,916 --> 00:40:04,833
who work at companies are good people.

1228
00:40:05,500 --> 00:40:06,375
I believe at home,

1229
00:40:06,375 --> 00:40:07,958
they're probably a good husband

1230
00:40:07,958 --> 00:40:09,666
or wife or a good father or mother.

1231
00:40:09,708 --> 00:40:11,208
They probably treat their dog or cat

1232
00:40:11,208 --> 00:40:12,041
really well at home.

1233
00:40:12,458 --> 00:40:13,458
They might even donate

1234
00:40:13,458 --> 00:40:14,708
to their local shelter

1235
00:40:15,958 --> 00:40:17,125
at the same time.

1236
00:40:17,916 --> 00:40:19,833
Once they enter the

1237
00:40:19,833 --> 00:40:20,833
building of their headquarters,

1238
00:40:22,791 --> 00:40:24,041
I have found that

1239
00:40:24,041 --> 00:40:28,291
companies instinctively try

1240
00:40:28,333 --> 00:40:30,666
to race to the bottom

1241
00:40:30,666 --> 00:40:33,333
unless otherwise pushed.

1242
00:40:34,958 --> 00:40:37,750
And the problem that

1243
00:40:37,750 --> 00:40:38,791
these companies have is

1244
00:40:38,833 --> 00:40:39,791
when they race to the bottom,

1245
00:40:39,791 --> 00:40:40,333
it's actually not even

1246
00:40:40,333 --> 00:40:41,166
good for the company.

1247
00:40:41,916 --> 00:40:44,583
They think it is because maybe

1248
00:40:44,583 --> 00:40:47,000
offhandedly they think,

1249
00:40:47,458 --> 00:40:48,541
hey, why don't we just get

1250
00:40:48,541 --> 00:40:50,875
whatever the cheapest thing

1251
00:40:50,875 --> 00:40:52,041
is available, that's

1252
00:40:52,041 --> 00:40:53,166
best for the company.

1253
00:40:53,750 --> 00:40:54,708
That's best for saving

1254
00:40:54,708 --> 00:40:55,666
money, it's best for profits.

1255
00:40:57,541 --> 00:41:00,166
The problem is, is that beyond the

1256
00:41:00,166 --> 00:41:01,416
ethical implications

1257
00:41:02,583 --> 00:41:04,416
of buying products

1258
00:41:04,416 --> 00:41:05,541
like eggs from chickens,

1259
00:41:05,875 --> 00:41:07,000
confining cages or pork

1260
00:41:07,000 --> 00:41:08,208
from pigs combining cages,

1261
00:41:08,416 --> 00:41:09,625
beyond the fact these

1262
00:41:09,625 --> 00:41:11,791
animals are suffering

1263
00:41:11,916 --> 00:41:13,208
to such an extreme extent,

1264
00:41:13,375 --> 00:41:14,791
it's actually bad for their business.

1265
00:41:15,708 --> 00:41:17,125
And a lot of times it

1266
00:41:17,125 --> 00:41:18,916
takes a little bit of nudging

1267
00:41:19,416 --> 00:41:21,125
for these companies to realize that.

1268
00:41:22,208 --> 00:41:23,583
And part of the reasons

1269
00:41:23,583 --> 00:41:25,500
why we have been successful

1270
00:41:26,500 --> 00:41:27,708
getting these companies

1271
00:41:27,708 --> 00:41:28,833
to switch to cage frags

1272
00:41:28,833 --> 00:41:30,791
as an example, is because

1273
00:41:30,791 --> 00:41:31,916
they did come to the realization

1274
00:41:31,916 --> 00:41:33,750
it is better for them that they did it.

1275
00:41:34,791 --> 00:41:36,416
And that is good.

1276
00:41:37,958 --> 00:41:39,791
My hope is that they come to realization

1277
00:41:39,791 --> 00:41:40,958
on other issues too.

1278
00:41:42,125 --> 00:41:43,000
That rather than keep

1279
00:41:43,000 --> 00:41:44,750
fighting for a status quo

1280
00:41:44,750 --> 00:41:46,791
of race to the bottom, they

1281
00:41:46,791 --> 00:41:50,000
more quickly come to the belief

1282
00:41:50,000 --> 00:41:50,791
that, wait a second,

1283
00:41:51,000 --> 00:41:52,333
maybe this isn't so good

1284
00:41:52,750 --> 00:41:54,666
for the long-term interest of

1285
00:41:54,666 --> 00:41:56,041
shareholders or a company

1286
00:41:56,125 --> 00:41:58,291
for us to keep racing to the bottom here.

1287
00:41:59,083 --> 00:41:59,875
And there are so many

1288
00:41:59,875 --> 00:42:01,250
companies where their suppliers

1289
00:42:01,250 --> 00:42:02,791
have been exposed for animal cruelty

1290
00:42:02,875 --> 00:42:04,333
and food safety concerns

1291
00:42:04,333 --> 00:42:06,666
and other severe issues.

1292
00:42:07,250 --> 00:42:08,583
And I know at those moments, those

1293
00:42:08,583 --> 00:42:09,708
companies were thinking,

1294
00:42:09,708 --> 00:42:10,708
gosh, what were we doing?

1295
00:42:11,500 --> 00:42:12,750
Why were we buying those products?

1296
00:42:13,458 --> 00:42:14,583
That didn't make any sense.

1297
00:42:15,375 --> 00:42:18,000
And those companies in most cases

1298
00:42:18,000 --> 00:42:19,708
have made changes since then.

1299
00:42:20,416 --> 00:42:22,166
So hope springs eternal.

1300
00:42:22,916 --> 00:42:24,125
I certainly hope companies

1301
00:42:24,125 --> 00:42:26,541
keep moving in a better direction

1302
00:42:26,541 --> 00:42:27,833
but at the same time, we're

1303
00:42:27,833 --> 00:42:28,708
there to keep pushing them

1304
00:42:28,708 --> 00:42:29,166
to do it.

1305
00:42:31,333 --> 00:42:32,458
Are there times when

1306
00:42:32,458 --> 00:42:34,458
animal welfare is at odds

1307
00:42:34,458 --> 00:42:36,083
with investor financial gain

1308
00:42:36,083 --> 00:42:37,500
with the exception of

1309
00:42:37,500 --> 00:42:38,708
future risk profiles?

1310
00:42:41,250 --> 00:42:42,416
Not the issues that we push.

1311
00:42:43,333 --> 00:42:45,291
We don't push issues that

1312
00:42:45,291 --> 00:42:47,166
are at odds with shareholders.

1313
00:42:48,541 --> 00:42:50,250
And maybe one day there

1314
00:42:50,250 --> 00:42:52,500
will be some issues out there

1315
00:42:52,500 --> 00:42:53,500
that there's some conflict,

1316
00:42:53,500 --> 00:42:54,333
but certainly not the

1317
00:42:54,333 --> 00:42:55,166
issues that we push.

1318
00:42:56,125 --> 00:42:59,916
As an example, McDonald's,

1319
00:42:59,916 --> 00:43:01,416
to go back to the company

1320
00:43:01,416 --> 00:43:02,083
that switched all

1321
00:43:02,083 --> 00:43:03,208
their eggs to cage free,

1322
00:43:04,166 --> 00:43:06,041
they weren't moving the way they should

1323
00:43:06,041 --> 00:43:07,958
to stop using pork from operations

1324
00:43:07,958 --> 00:43:09,708
where mother pigs are confining cages.

1325
00:43:10,250 --> 00:43:13,333
And that led to a major PR scandal

1326
00:43:14,125 --> 00:43:17,041
where my team worked with

1327
00:43:17,041 --> 00:43:18,458
someone named Carl Icahn

1328
00:43:18,458 --> 00:43:20,541
who is probably the most famous,

1329
00:43:20,750 --> 00:43:21,458
what is called an

1330
00:43:21,458 --> 00:43:23,375
activist investor in US history

1331
00:43:24,708 --> 00:43:26,500
to take on McDonald's

1332
00:43:27,041 --> 00:43:27,958
and nominate two people

1333
00:43:27,958 --> 00:43:28,958
for the board of directors

1334
00:43:29,958 --> 00:43:31,875
because we felt as if the

1335
00:43:31,875 --> 00:43:33,541
board was not doing their job

1336
00:43:33,875 --> 00:43:35,083
to follow through on commitments

1337
00:43:35,291 --> 00:43:37,208
that were very important to

1338
00:43:37,208 --> 00:43:38,208
shareholders and customers.

1339
00:43:38,875 --> 00:43:40,916
And that led to more media attention

1340
00:43:41,375 --> 00:43:42,083
related to treatment of

1341
00:43:42,083 --> 00:43:43,041
farm animals in history

1342
00:43:43,375 --> 00:43:45,208
and a massive scandal for McDonald's

1343
00:43:45,583 --> 00:43:46,583
where McDonald's had to

1344
00:43:46,583 --> 00:43:48,041
spend tens of millions of dollars

1345
00:43:48,041 --> 00:43:50,875
to fight off this board battle.

1346
00:43:52,041 --> 00:43:53,125
And there's no way that

1347
00:43:53,125 --> 00:43:54,458
was good for McDonald's.

1348
00:43:55,458 --> 00:43:58,708
And later on, the company has since moved

1349
00:43:58,708 --> 00:43:59,708
in a better direction

1350
00:43:59,708 --> 00:44:01,000
when it came to animals.

1351
00:44:02,291 --> 00:44:04,416
And so I right now

1352
00:44:04,416 --> 00:44:05,875
can't think of an issue

1353
00:44:06,208 --> 00:44:07,458
where it is better for

1354
00:44:07,458 --> 00:44:08,458
companies and shareholders

1355
00:44:08,750 --> 00:44:10,166
that animals are treated horribly.

1356
00:44:11,166 --> 00:44:12,875
Maybe that will come, but so far,

1357
00:44:12,875 --> 00:44:14,458
that's not anything that we're pushing.

1358
00:44:16,875 --> 00:44:18,333
So we looked at the

1359
00:44:18,333 --> 00:44:19,833
perspective of like the work

1360
00:44:20,208 --> 00:44:20,708
that you're doing at

1361
00:44:20,708 --> 00:44:21,791
the accountability board,

1362
00:44:21,791 --> 00:44:23,166
maybe switching gears to

1363
00:44:23,166 --> 00:44:24,458
hear about how you guys

1364
00:44:24,583 --> 00:44:26,041
made products that people

1365
00:44:26,041 --> 00:44:28,541
want and like cultivated meat,

1366
00:44:29,083 --> 00:44:31,291
the work that's been done there.

1367
00:44:31,291 --> 00:44:33,208
We'd love to hear how that's been going.

1368
00:44:33,208 --> 00:44:33,833
I know the company

1369
00:44:33,833 --> 00:44:35,125
has grown pretty large.

1370
00:44:36,125 --> 00:44:37,375
It's, I believe had a billion dollar

1371
00:44:37,375 --> 00:44:38,666
valuation at one point.

1372
00:44:39,041 --> 00:44:39,958
How has that journey

1373
00:44:39,958 --> 00:44:41,416
been and where is it headed?

1374
00:44:42,750 --> 00:44:44,416
I founded EatJust with

1375
00:44:44,416 --> 00:44:46,916
my long time best friend.

1376
00:44:47,291 --> 00:44:48,416
His name is also Josh.

1377
00:44:48,708 --> 00:44:49,583
We grew up together.

1378
00:44:51,208 --> 00:44:52,208
I wanted to be a baseball

1379
00:44:52,208 --> 00:44:54,250
player as your listeners now know.

1380
00:44:54,833 --> 00:44:55,916
Josh, other Josh wanted

1381
00:44:55,916 --> 00:44:56,916
to be a football player.

1382
00:44:56,916 --> 00:44:58,375
So we grew up trying to

1383
00:44:58,375 --> 00:44:59,541
be professional athletes.

1384
00:45:00,833 --> 00:45:02,333
Well, neither of us got there,

1385
00:45:02,791 --> 00:45:05,833
but we became dear friends along the way.

1386
00:45:06,291 --> 00:45:07,250
And it also helped

1387
00:45:07,250 --> 00:45:09,291
probably push our work ethics

1388
00:45:09,500 --> 00:45:11,583
and our tenacity that then

1389
00:45:11,583 --> 00:45:13,958
translated to taking a leap

1390
00:45:13,958 --> 00:45:15,375
to try to do something that

1391
00:45:15,375 --> 00:45:16,666
more times than not fails.

1392
00:45:16,875 --> 00:45:17,750
And that's the start of company.

1393
00:45:18,833 --> 00:45:20,250
And so the idea was this,

1394
00:45:20,250 --> 00:45:21,458
is that I still remember

1395
00:45:22,375 --> 00:45:25,083
years ago I met with General Mills

1396
00:45:26,166 --> 00:45:29,625
and General Mills was

1397
00:45:29,625 --> 00:45:31,083
using eggs from Caged Chickens

1398
00:45:31,291 --> 00:45:32,375
and I gave a presentation

1399
00:45:32,375 --> 00:45:33,458
about why they should switch

1400
00:45:33,458 --> 00:45:34,458
to Caged for Eggs and

1401
00:45:34,458 --> 00:45:35,458
everyone in the room agreed.

1402
00:45:36,041 --> 00:45:37,458
There are all these executives there.

1403
00:45:37,458 --> 00:45:38,333
They couldn't have been friendlier

1404
00:45:39,416 --> 00:45:41,833
and more compassionate in their view.

1405
00:45:42,333 --> 00:45:44,208
But at the end of the

1406
00:45:44,208 --> 00:45:45,208
meeting said, okay, Josh,

1407
00:45:46,083 --> 00:45:47,541
I think what we can do is

1408
00:45:47,541 --> 00:45:49,083
switch maybe 5% of our eggs

1409
00:45:49,750 --> 00:45:50,458
to cage free.

1410
00:45:51,458 --> 00:45:53,000
And it just broke my heart

1411
00:45:54,125 --> 00:45:55,875
because they felt that they were

1412
00:45:55,875 --> 00:45:57,458
constrained by cost.

1413
00:45:57,791 --> 00:45:59,125
They're constrained by supply.

1414
00:45:59,416 --> 00:46:00,500
To move in a direction they

1415
00:46:00,500 --> 00:46:01,708
knew was the right thing to do.

1416
00:46:02,416 --> 00:46:03,958
And these were good people saying it.

1417
00:46:04,208 --> 00:46:05,666
These were not bad

1418
00:46:05,666 --> 00:46:07,583
people, shameful people

1419
00:46:08,041 --> 00:46:08,791
who were saying we can

1420
00:46:08,791 --> 00:46:10,125
only go 5% of the way.

1421
00:46:10,125 --> 00:46:10,916
These are good people

1422
00:46:10,916 --> 00:46:11,708
who felt constrained.

1423
00:46:13,166 --> 00:46:14,916
And I was thinking, what can

1424
00:46:14,916 --> 00:46:18,875
we do to put products out there

1425
00:46:19,708 --> 00:46:21,583
that don't come from

1426
00:46:21,583 --> 00:46:22,916
chickens confined in cages,

1427
00:46:23,750 --> 00:46:24,833
that are plant-based,

1428
00:46:25,708 --> 00:46:27,250
that ordinary Americans

1429
00:46:27,416 --> 00:46:29,000
and major companies can

1430
00:46:29,000 --> 00:46:31,416
choose if they so want to

1431
00:46:32,875 --> 00:46:35,666
instead of keeping a status quo

1432
00:46:36,541 --> 00:46:39,375
and not feel like they have to pay more,

1433
00:46:39,458 --> 00:46:41,541
not feel like they have to lose taste,

1434
00:46:42,375 --> 00:46:43,333
not feel like they

1435
00:46:43,333 --> 00:46:45,375
have to lose the structure

1436
00:46:45,625 --> 00:46:47,125
or the product quality.

1437
00:46:48,125 --> 00:46:49,000
And so I approached

1438
00:46:49,000 --> 00:46:51,333
other Josh with this idea

1439
00:46:51,333 --> 00:46:54,583
of creating a plant-based egg product,

1440
00:46:55,083 --> 00:46:56,291
whether it's ingredients to

1441
00:46:56,291 --> 00:46:57,583
replace eggs from chickens

1442
00:46:58,000 --> 00:46:59,458
or maybe one day

1443
00:46:59,458 --> 00:47:01,625
creating an actual scrambled egg

1444
00:47:01,625 --> 00:47:02,333
that's plant-based.

1445
00:47:03,458 --> 00:47:04,666
He thought it was a good idea.

1446
00:47:05,375 --> 00:47:06,666
So we put it together and

1447
00:47:06,666 --> 00:47:08,375
launched a company in 2011

1448
00:47:08,666 --> 00:47:11,333
and thanks more to him than

1449
00:47:11,333 --> 00:47:13,541
me, it's been a huge success.

1450
00:47:14,666 --> 00:47:17,416
The Just Egg product, which is a egg,

1451
00:47:17,583 --> 00:47:18,500
plant-based egg product

1452
00:47:18,500 --> 00:47:19,625
sold in every major gross

1453
00:47:19,625 --> 00:47:20,333
in the United States

1454
00:47:20,333 --> 00:47:21,458
is in the egg section.

1455
00:47:22,291 --> 00:47:23,208
And all you do is pour

1456
00:47:23,208 --> 00:47:24,916
the liquid plant-based eggs

1457
00:47:24,916 --> 00:47:26,625
in a Frank Pandy scrambled up,

1458
00:47:26,625 --> 00:47:27,833
just like you would with

1459
00:47:27,833 --> 00:47:29,375
eggs and a scrambled eggs.

1460
00:47:30,125 --> 00:47:31,708
They also have a frozen egg

1461
00:47:31,708 --> 00:47:33,458
product where you just get,

1462
00:47:33,458 --> 00:47:34,000
it's kind of like

1463
00:47:34,000 --> 00:47:35,416
someone goes to McDonald's,

1464
00:47:35,416 --> 00:47:36,333
there's like an egg patty

1465
00:47:36,333 --> 00:47:37,583
with an egg in the mouth.

1466
00:47:37,791 --> 00:47:38,833
It's like that, the

1467
00:47:38,833 --> 00:47:41,000
frozen plant-based egg patty.

1468
00:47:41,625 --> 00:47:43,666
Just put in the toaster, you're done.

1469
00:47:44,041 --> 00:47:44,875
Put in a piece of toast,

1470
00:47:44,875 --> 00:47:45,916
you eat it, it's delicious.

1471
00:47:46,833 --> 00:47:50,666
Also have burritos, sauces and dressings.

1472
00:47:51,541 --> 00:47:53,916
And what is wonderful about it

1473
00:47:53,916 --> 00:47:55,625
and what is really inspiring to me

1474
00:47:56,250 --> 00:47:58,166
is that more than 95% of

1475
00:47:58,166 --> 00:47:59,333
people who buy these products

1476
00:47:59,333 --> 00:48:00,916
and the sales are going extremely well,

1477
00:48:01,250 --> 00:48:02,250
more than 95% of

1478
00:48:02,250 --> 00:48:03,583
people, they're not vegan,

1479
00:48:04,000 --> 00:48:04,666
they're not vegetarian.

1480
00:48:05,375 --> 00:48:06,500
These are ordinary people

1481
00:48:07,166 --> 00:48:08,333
that are just trying to eat better.

1482
00:48:09,208 --> 00:48:10,541
They're trying to eat more plant-based

1483
00:48:10,541 --> 00:48:11,291
maybe because they've

1484
00:48:11,291 --> 00:48:12,833
higher cholesterol issues.

1485
00:48:14,041 --> 00:48:16,000
They maybe understand the impact

1486
00:48:16,000 --> 00:48:16,375
of animal

1487
00:48:16,375 --> 00:48:17,625
agribusiness in the environment.

1488
00:48:17,625 --> 00:48:18,500
So they're trying to take a

1489
00:48:18,500 --> 00:48:20,208
step to eat more plant-based.

1490
00:48:20,208 --> 00:48:21,500
Maybe they started to learn

1491
00:48:21,500 --> 00:48:22,708
about how animals are treated

1492
00:48:23,375 --> 00:48:24,166
and they're trying to

1493
00:48:24,166 --> 00:48:27,000
take some moment in a day

1494
00:48:27,833 --> 00:48:31,375
to choose compassion versus cruelty.

1495
00:48:32,458 --> 00:48:34,291
And if it was a whole

1496
00:48:34,291 --> 00:48:35,291
bunch of vegans buying it,

1497
00:48:35,333 --> 00:48:36,000
I wouldn't be as pumped

1498
00:48:36,000 --> 00:48:37,458
up, but it's certainly not.

1499
00:48:38,541 --> 00:48:39,416
And so the sales were

1500
00:48:39,416 --> 00:48:41,083
great and pretty soon

1501
00:48:41,083 --> 00:48:42,333
there's gonna be a

1502
00:48:42,333 --> 00:48:45,125
plant-based chicken that's launched

1503
00:48:45,708 --> 00:48:48,083
and that is also phenomenally delicious.

1504
00:48:49,000 --> 00:48:50,333
Tastes just like chicken breasts

1505
00:48:50,666 --> 00:48:52,083
that I remember when I was a kid

1506
00:48:52,791 --> 00:48:54,750
and I couldn't be more thrilled

1507
00:48:54,750 --> 00:48:55,875
with what the company is doing

1508
00:48:56,708 --> 00:48:58,875
and doing in a way that is big tent.

1509
00:48:59,125 --> 00:49:00,750
It's bringing everybody in.

1510
00:49:00,750 --> 00:49:02,958
I don't care who they voted for.

1511
00:49:03,791 --> 00:49:05,541
I don't care what their diet is.

1512
00:49:05,541 --> 00:49:06,208
You're on the team.

1513
00:49:06,416 --> 00:49:07,583
Just try the product.

1514
00:49:07,583 --> 00:49:09,291
If you like it, keep buying it.

1515
00:49:09,875 --> 00:49:11,166
If you try it, you don't like it.

1516
00:49:11,166 --> 00:49:12,291
Hey, so be it.

1517
00:49:12,291 --> 00:49:13,375
I appreciate you giving it a shot.

1518
00:49:14,666 --> 00:49:16,833
How's the texture of this chicken?

1519
00:49:18,791 --> 00:49:20,083
I'm telling you that

1520
00:49:20,083 --> 00:49:23,333
everyday chicken eaters

1521
00:49:23,333 --> 00:49:24,416
would have a problem

1522
00:49:24,416 --> 00:49:26,541
knowing that this is plant-based.

1523
00:49:27,333 --> 00:49:28,500
In fact, there was a

1524
00:49:28,500 --> 00:49:30,166
study about a month ago

1525
00:49:31,208 --> 00:49:34,541
with self-identified chicken meat lovers.

1526
00:49:35,875 --> 00:49:36,791
That's who they were,

1527
00:49:36,791 --> 00:49:37,708
chicken meat lovers.

1528
00:49:37,708 --> 00:49:38,625
Not that they liked chicken.

1529
00:49:38,833 --> 00:49:40,166
They love chicken.

1530
00:49:40,541 --> 00:49:41,083
Loved chicken.

1531
00:49:41,500 --> 00:49:42,000
Loved chicken.

1532
00:49:42,375 --> 00:49:44,375
Loved, not even past tense, Daniel.

1533
00:49:44,375 --> 00:49:44,916
You said loved.

1534
00:49:45,416 --> 00:49:46,208
Loved as in current.

1535
00:49:46,500 --> 00:49:46,958
Loving now.

1536
00:49:47,666 --> 00:49:48,208
Right now.

1537
00:49:49,458 --> 00:49:50,250
And they were in a room

1538
00:49:50,458 --> 00:49:51,250
and they were given all

1539
00:49:51,250 --> 00:49:52,125
these different varieties

1540
00:49:52,125 --> 00:49:53,875
of actual chicken from birds

1541
00:49:54,250 --> 00:49:56,833
and also the eatjust plant-based chicken.

1542
00:49:57,666 --> 00:49:59,333
And it was a blind taste test.

1543
00:49:59,333 --> 00:50:00,291
They didn't know what they were trying.

1544
00:50:01,041 --> 00:50:02,500
They determined that the

1545
00:50:02,500 --> 00:50:04,958
eatjust chicken tastes the best.

1546
00:50:06,083 --> 00:50:07,000
And only at the end, they

1547
00:50:07,000 --> 00:50:07,708
were like, oh, by the way,

1548
00:50:07,708 --> 00:50:08,875
do you know that was plant-based?

1549
00:50:08,875 --> 00:50:09,500
And they were shocked.

1550
00:50:09,500 --> 00:50:10,333
They couldn't believe it.

1551
00:50:11,041 --> 00:50:13,625
So this goes in this theory,

1552
00:50:14,666 --> 00:50:16,708
that there is virtually no

1553
00:50:16,708 --> 00:50:18,208
one who wants to harm animals.

1554
00:50:18,833 --> 00:50:20,041
There's no one who wants

1555
00:50:20,041 --> 00:50:21,333
to go out and buy products

1556
00:50:21,333 --> 00:50:21,875
and then have a

1557
00:50:21,875 --> 00:50:22,833
breakfast, lunch, or dinner

1558
00:50:23,416 --> 00:50:25,041
that came from an animal who's abused.

1559
00:50:25,750 --> 00:50:26,541
People are good.

1560
00:50:27,041 --> 00:50:29,291
And so all we have to do in my mind

1561
00:50:29,791 --> 00:50:31,833
is allow people options

1562
00:50:33,000 --> 00:50:34,875
so people can eat the way they really are

1563
00:50:35,458 --> 00:50:37,375
and how they really are are good people.

1564
00:50:38,166 --> 00:50:38,958
And as long as we can give

1565
00:50:38,958 --> 00:50:40,125
them stuff that's delicious,

1566
00:50:40,416 --> 00:50:41,791
I think we're moving in a good direction.

1567
00:50:42,958 --> 00:50:44,333
With the chicken, the

1568
00:50:44,333 --> 00:50:44,958
plant-based chicken,

1569
00:50:45,208 --> 00:50:47,583
is there a nutritional density difference

1570
00:50:47,583 --> 00:50:48,750
when it comes to protein

1571
00:50:48,750 --> 00:50:50,416
and diversity of amino acids?

1572
00:50:51,458 --> 00:50:52,375
There's just as much

1573
00:50:52,375 --> 00:50:56,041
protein as in chicken from birds

1574
00:50:57,125 --> 00:50:58,666
and chicken meat from birds.

1575
00:50:59,500 --> 00:51:01,166
And there's no cholesterol.

1576
00:51:02,208 --> 00:51:03,125
Cholesterol is a huge

1577
00:51:03,125 --> 00:51:04,791
issue in the United States

1578
00:51:05,333 --> 00:51:06,750
and other parts in the world.

1579
00:51:07,333 --> 00:51:08,625
And products that are

1580
00:51:08,625 --> 00:51:09,666
entirely plant-based

1581
00:51:09,666 --> 00:51:11,291
have zero cholesterol in them.

1582
00:51:11,583 --> 00:51:12,541
So we're talking about a

1583
00:51:12,541 --> 00:51:14,208
high protein, low calorie,

1584
00:51:14,791 --> 00:51:16,541
zero cholesterol product.

1585
00:51:17,625 --> 00:51:19,625
And I think it's pretty good too.

1586
00:51:19,916 --> 00:51:20,958
I think it's extremely good.

1587
00:51:21,500 --> 00:51:23,750
I will say, I know I'm biased.

1588
00:51:24,000 --> 00:51:25,500
It's a company that I co-founded.

1589
00:51:25,791 --> 00:51:26,500
I get it.

1590
00:51:26,500 --> 00:51:27,000
I get it.

1591
00:51:27,666 --> 00:51:29,750
At the same time, I just hope people

1592
00:51:29,916 --> 00:51:31,208
try plant-based products.

1593
00:51:31,458 --> 00:51:33,583
Try eat just products or try others.

1594
00:51:33,916 --> 00:51:34,666
That's all good too.

1595
00:51:35,125 --> 00:51:36,708
I want all the companies to succeed.

1596
00:51:37,583 --> 00:51:40,250
And what I can tell folks is that

1597
00:51:40,833 --> 00:51:41,541
there are enough

1598
00:51:41,541 --> 00:51:43,583
plant-based products out there

1599
00:51:44,000 --> 00:51:44,541
that you're gonna

1600
00:51:44,541 --> 00:51:45,541
find something you like.

1601
00:51:46,250 --> 00:51:48,375
You might go to the market

1602
00:51:48,375 --> 00:51:50,541
and try the grocery store,

1603
00:51:50,541 --> 00:51:52,083
like, all right, I'm gonna go home

1604
00:51:52,291 --> 00:51:53,625
with six different veggie burgers.

1605
00:51:54,625 --> 00:51:55,666
Maybe you like all six.

1606
00:51:55,916 --> 00:51:57,375
Maybe you like two of the six.

1607
00:51:57,833 --> 00:51:58,416
That's all good.

1608
00:51:59,166 --> 00:52:00,041
At the same time, you will

1609
00:52:00,041 --> 00:52:00,958
find something that you like.

1610
00:52:02,291 --> 00:52:04,583
And as long as we just keep trying

1611
00:52:04,583 --> 00:52:06,333
to incorporate it more into our diet,

1612
00:52:06,333 --> 00:52:07,375
it's not about perfection.

1613
00:52:07,625 --> 00:52:08,375
I'm not perfect.

1614
00:52:08,375 --> 00:52:09,083
You're not perfect.

1615
00:52:09,500 --> 00:52:10,125
No one's perfect.

1616
00:52:10,583 --> 00:52:11,583
As long as we keep trying

1617
00:52:11,583 --> 00:52:12,666
to incorporate this stuff

1618
00:52:13,125 --> 00:52:14,291
into our diet, we can

1619
00:52:14,291 --> 00:52:16,291
really move things along forward.

1620
00:52:16,291 --> 00:52:17,375
And I think a lot of

1621
00:52:17,375 --> 00:52:18,333
times we just have to give

1622
00:52:18,333 --> 00:52:19,625
some of these products a chance.

1623
00:52:19,833 --> 00:52:21,833
And just try a whole bunch of them.

1624
00:52:22,041 --> 00:52:22,625
Just know that you're

1625
00:52:22,625 --> 00:52:23,375
not gonna like some.

1626
00:52:23,416 --> 00:52:25,208
But others you are, and maybe eat

1627
00:52:25,208 --> 00:52:26,083
that a little bit more often.

1628
00:52:27,416 --> 00:52:28,500
We've made a lot of traction

1629
00:52:28,625 --> 00:52:32,166
with vegan diet options being available.

1630
00:52:32,750 --> 00:52:34,333
Are there, how large would

1631
00:52:34,333 --> 00:52:36,000
you say the nutritional gap is?

1632
00:52:36,500 --> 00:52:38,458
In terms of nutrient

1633
00:52:38,458 --> 00:52:40,208
density, amino acid density,

1634
00:52:40,208 --> 00:52:41,666
protein density, et cetera.

1635
00:52:41,916 --> 00:52:42,708
Do you think that gap

1636
00:52:42,708 --> 00:52:43,541
is completely closed

1637
00:52:43,708 --> 00:52:44,708
or almost closed?

1638
00:52:44,958 --> 00:52:46,166
Where do you perceive it to be?

1639
00:52:47,333 --> 00:52:47,708
Several things.

1640
00:52:48,833 --> 00:52:51,500
One is that when we

1641
00:52:51,500 --> 00:52:53,083
talk about plant-based food

1642
00:52:53,208 --> 00:52:54,166
or vegan food, remember

1643
00:52:54,166 --> 00:52:56,125
the healthiest diet likely

1644
00:52:56,125 --> 00:52:57,041
is a diet that is

1645
00:52:57,041 --> 00:52:59,375
focused on things like beans

1646
00:53:00,250 --> 00:53:02,166
and vegetables and fruit.

1647
00:53:03,083 --> 00:53:04,208
Most people think if

1648
00:53:04,208 --> 00:53:05,666
that's where your focus is,

1649
00:53:05,750 --> 00:53:07,166
you're probably eating pretty well.

1650
00:53:08,041 --> 00:53:09,625
And so yes, we can talk

1651
00:53:09,625 --> 00:53:11,750
about new plant-based burgers

1652
00:53:12,000 --> 00:53:13,125
and plant-based chicken

1653
00:53:13,125 --> 00:53:14,708
fingers and plant-based eggs

1654
00:53:14,708 --> 00:53:15,666
and all those good stuff.

1655
00:53:16,250 --> 00:53:17,791
Absolutely, let's talk about it.

1656
00:53:18,250 --> 00:53:20,500
At the same time, if

1657
00:53:20,500 --> 00:53:21,958
we want to be healthy

1658
00:53:22,250 --> 00:53:23,708
and that is the sole focus,

1659
00:53:24,291 --> 00:53:26,041
likely it is good to focus

1660
00:53:26,208 --> 00:53:27,625
on those whole foods

1661
00:53:27,625 --> 00:53:29,291
plant-based products in the market.

1662
00:53:29,791 --> 00:53:31,166
If our protein comes

1663
00:53:31,166 --> 00:53:32,916
from beans and whole grains,

1664
00:53:33,416 --> 00:53:35,125
if our fiber comes from

1665
00:53:35,125 --> 00:53:36,916
different types of vegetables,

1666
00:53:36,916 --> 00:53:37,958
choose any vegetables you want.

1667
00:53:38,833 --> 00:53:39,708
Really at the end of the day,

1668
00:53:39,916 --> 00:53:41,291
just eat some vegetables that you like.

1669
00:53:41,666 --> 00:53:42,791
As long as we eat more fruit

1670
00:53:43,291 --> 00:53:44,458
and we reduce the

1671
00:53:44,458 --> 00:53:45,833
amount of animal protein,

1672
00:53:46,375 --> 00:53:48,208
you're likely going to be eating a diet

1673
00:53:48,541 --> 00:53:49,458
that's pretty healthy.

1674
00:53:50,125 --> 00:53:51,875
So let's start with that.

1675
00:53:52,208 --> 00:53:54,750
Now onto the plant-based meat products.

1676
00:53:55,625 --> 00:53:56,166
You know, there's some

1677
00:53:56,166 --> 00:53:57,125
plant-based meat products

1678
00:53:57,500 --> 00:54:00,708
that are fried and they're just delicious

1679
00:54:01,375 --> 00:54:02,458
and they're not meant to be the

1680
00:54:02,458 --> 00:54:03,458
healthiest product on earth.

1681
00:54:03,666 --> 00:54:04,166
They're just like,

1682
00:54:04,166 --> 00:54:05,083
"Hey, these are

1683
00:54:05,083 --> 00:54:06,208
plant-based chicken fingers.

1684
00:54:06,208 --> 00:54:08,000
They're darn good. Enjoy them.

1685
00:54:08,375 --> 00:54:09,708
Watch a football game with them."

1686
00:54:10,208 --> 00:54:11,916
And that's what they're meant to be.

1687
00:54:12,750 --> 00:54:14,541
They're not trying to hide anything.

1688
00:54:15,250 --> 00:54:17,166
I would say that that's good

1689
00:54:17,166 --> 00:54:18,250
if you want to enjoy that wonderful.

1690
00:54:18,666 --> 00:54:21,583
Keep in mind that most of the folks

1691
00:54:21,583 --> 00:54:22,541
that when we're eating

1692
00:54:22,541 --> 00:54:24,041
these animal products,

1693
00:54:24,750 --> 00:54:25,750
we're eating animal products

1694
00:54:25,750 --> 00:54:26,916
that aren't so healthy for us.

1695
00:54:27,375 --> 00:54:28,875
They have a lot of fat, a lot of

1696
00:54:28,875 --> 00:54:30,250
cholesterol, often fried.

1697
00:54:31,875 --> 00:54:34,833
When chicken often, chicken meat

1698
00:54:35,958 --> 00:54:37,625
typically still has antibiotics in it

1699
00:54:37,625 --> 00:54:39,125
because the chicken meat industry

1700
00:54:40,000 --> 00:54:42,708
just laces the chicken

1701
00:54:42,708 --> 00:54:43,500
feed with antibiotics

1702
00:54:43,625 --> 00:54:45,416
because the conditions are so terrible.

1703
00:54:45,416 --> 00:54:46,041
The antibiotics that

1704
00:54:46,041 --> 00:54:46,833
only weigh these chickens

1705
00:54:46,833 --> 00:54:47,666
even remain alive.

1706
00:54:48,000 --> 00:54:48,666
Think about that,

1707
00:54:49,000 --> 00:54:50,166
eating meat from a chicken

1708
00:54:50,541 --> 00:54:51,875
who otherwise would have died

1709
00:54:52,166 --> 00:54:55,083
if she wasn't laced with all these drugs

1710
00:54:55,458 --> 00:54:56,375
to keep them alive in

1711
00:54:56,375 --> 00:54:57,333
these horrible conditions

1712
00:54:57,333 --> 00:54:58,208
where they're forced to

1713
00:54:58,208 --> 00:54:59,541
stand in their own waste

1714
00:54:59,708 --> 00:55:01,041
with tens of thousands of other chickens.

1715
00:55:01,291 --> 00:55:02,166
Do we want to, is

1716
00:55:02,166 --> 00:55:02,875
that what we want to have

1717
00:55:02,875 --> 00:55:05,500
to be the centerpiece of what we eat?

1718
00:55:06,958 --> 00:55:10,208
So if we want to try plant-based products

1719
00:55:10,750 --> 00:55:12,833
that perhaps aren't so,

1720
00:55:13,166 --> 00:55:14,125
this aren't as fun as

1721
00:55:14,125 --> 00:55:16,708
like a fried chicken patty

1722
00:55:17,333 --> 00:55:18,625
or finger or nugget.

1723
00:55:18,833 --> 00:55:19,583
Yeah, there's a lot of good,

1724
00:55:20,083 --> 00:55:21,416
healthier stuff out there too.

1725
00:55:21,416 --> 00:55:23,541
There's veggie burgers that are very low

1726
00:55:23,541 --> 00:55:24,875
in fat and high protein.

1727
00:55:24,875 --> 00:55:25,750
There's some veggie burgers,

1728
00:55:25,750 --> 00:55:26,958
some folks like veggie burgers

1729
00:55:27,458 --> 00:55:30,333
that are more like mashed up vegetables

1730
00:55:30,875 --> 00:55:33,125
that they have more of a vegetable feel.

1731
00:55:33,333 --> 00:55:34,250
Like that's what my dad,

1732
00:55:35,125 --> 00:55:36,708
he's mostly plant-based.

1733
00:55:36,708 --> 00:55:38,500
He's 86 years old, good for him.

1734
00:55:39,125 --> 00:55:40,708
And he loves sweet potato veggie burgers.

1735
00:55:41,750 --> 00:55:43,583
My brother loves the veggie burgers

1736
00:55:43,750 --> 00:55:49,125
that have like corn and broccoli and kale

1737
00:55:50,000 --> 00:55:52,458
and grains kind of mashed in.

1738
00:55:52,833 --> 00:55:53,791
So it's just like a

1739
00:55:53,791 --> 00:55:55,125
health patty type of thing.

1740
00:55:55,125 --> 00:55:56,375
He loves that stuff and he's not

1741
00:55:56,375 --> 00:55:57,458
vegetarian or vegan,

1742
00:55:57,458 --> 00:55:58,250
but he enjoys that.

1743
00:55:58,666 --> 00:55:59,541
So my point is there's

1744
00:55:59,541 --> 00:56:00,625
such a variety, Daniel,

1745
00:56:00,625 --> 00:56:04,125
to talk about whether a product has

1746
00:56:04,125 --> 00:56:05,166
reached a certain point.

1747
00:56:05,500 --> 00:56:06,875
There's too much variety

1748
00:56:06,875 --> 00:56:08,541
to even answer that question

1749
00:56:08,625 --> 00:56:09,375
because there's

1750
00:56:09,375 --> 00:56:10,416
products out there to meet

1751
00:56:10,583 --> 00:56:11,458
pretty much what anybody

1752
00:56:11,458 --> 00:56:12,708
is looking for these days.

1753
00:56:16,125 --> 00:56:17,291
We've come a long way

1754
00:56:17,291 --> 00:56:19,500
because I don't think 20 years ago

1755
00:56:19,666 --> 00:56:21,541
there was such a variety available to us.

1756
00:56:22,000 --> 00:56:22,500
That's true.

1757
00:56:22,958 --> 00:56:24,000
That is definitely true.

1758
00:56:24,250 --> 00:56:27,625
I mean, when I started to try

1759
00:56:27,625 --> 00:56:28,875
to reduce my meat consumption

1760
00:56:28,875 --> 00:56:31,083
when I was in high school in the 1990s,

1761
00:56:31,458 --> 00:56:33,708
my gosh, it was challenging to find,

1762
00:56:34,583 --> 00:56:35,500
be obviously as easy to

1763
00:56:35,500 --> 00:56:36,833
find vegetables and fruit

1764
00:56:37,500 --> 00:56:39,458
and beans and maybe I

1765
00:56:39,458 --> 00:56:40,291
should have stuck with that.

1766
00:56:40,625 --> 00:56:41,833
I would have maybe had

1767
00:56:41,833 --> 00:56:42,666
a healthier childhood.

1768
00:56:43,791 --> 00:56:45,958
But there weren't the

1769
00:56:45,958 --> 00:56:46,875
plant-based meat products

1770
00:56:46,875 --> 00:56:47,916
that are available these days.

1771
00:56:47,916 --> 00:56:48,791
You're exactly right.

1772
00:56:49,583 --> 00:56:51,125
Just Egg, as we talked about,

1773
00:56:51,125 --> 00:56:53,208
is every mainstream grocery store.

1774
00:56:53,208 --> 00:56:53,875
You don't need to go

1775
00:56:53,875 --> 00:56:55,916
to a natural food store

1776
00:56:56,166 --> 00:56:56,916
or a Whole Foods.

1777
00:56:57,166 --> 00:56:58,833
Go to any major grocery store.

1778
00:56:58,833 --> 00:57:00,583
They'll have the plant-based egg,

1779
00:57:00,583 --> 00:57:01,958
Just Egg in the egg section.

1780
00:57:01,958 --> 00:57:03,416
By the way, you go to

1781
00:57:03,416 --> 00:57:04,916
the frozen meat section,

1782
00:57:05,333 --> 00:57:06,208
you're gonna likely see

1783
00:57:06,208 --> 00:57:07,333
different types of veggie burgers

1784
00:57:07,333 --> 00:57:08,291
these days that are

1785
00:57:08,291 --> 00:57:09,750
typically pretty darn good.

1786
00:57:10,458 --> 00:57:11,708
And by the way, in the milk section,

1787
00:57:12,291 --> 00:57:13,083
you're gonna see more

1788
00:57:13,083 --> 00:57:14,333
variety of plant-based milk

1789
00:57:14,333 --> 00:57:15,541
that you could possibly dream.

1790
00:57:16,416 --> 00:57:17,750
You go to a coffee shop,

1791
00:57:18,083 --> 00:57:19,500
there's now a list of five different

1792
00:57:19,541 --> 00:57:21,041
plant-based milk sometimes.

1793
00:57:21,500 --> 00:57:23,125
There's so much variety these days.

1794
00:57:23,125 --> 00:57:24,291
You're exactly right.

1795
00:57:24,625 --> 00:57:26,416
Is that now more than ever,

1796
00:57:26,541 --> 00:57:30,041
it's easier to start make these steps

1797
00:57:30,041 --> 00:57:31,750
forward into our diet.

1798
00:57:32,375 --> 00:57:33,708
And I can't stress enough,

1799
00:57:34,083 --> 00:57:35,541
it's not about the last step.

1800
00:57:35,791 --> 00:57:36,833
It's about the first step.

1801
00:57:37,416 --> 00:57:38,250
As long as we just

1802
00:57:38,250 --> 00:57:39,583
start taking these steps

1803
00:57:39,958 --> 00:57:41,208
and trying some of these products,

1804
00:57:41,708 --> 00:57:44,791
I think we can come together and see,

1805
00:57:45,041 --> 00:57:46,541
hey, we can start

1806
00:57:46,541 --> 00:57:48,916
making tangible advancements

1807
00:57:49,291 --> 00:57:51,958
in the near term to reduce the stress

1808
00:57:52,333 --> 00:57:53,458
within animal agribusiness

1809
00:57:53,458 --> 00:57:54,708
of raising so many animals

1810
00:57:54,708 --> 00:57:56,541
for food in such horrible conditions.

1811
00:57:59,750 --> 00:58:00,666
The startup roller coaster

1812
00:58:00,666 --> 00:58:02,541
is full of very high highs

1813
00:58:02,541 --> 00:58:03,541
and very low lows.

1814
00:58:03,875 --> 00:58:05,208
What were some of the lows

1815
00:58:05,208 --> 00:58:07,375
at Eat Just in the journey?

1816
00:58:09,250 --> 00:58:10,583
Well, it's always hard to

1817
00:58:10,583 --> 00:58:12,875
raise money for a startup.

1818
00:58:13,625 --> 00:58:16,541
And that's in any sector of the economy.

1819
00:58:17,791 --> 00:58:19,416
And so I would say that

1820
00:58:19,416 --> 00:58:21,958
there were some challenging times

1821
00:58:21,958 --> 00:58:26,708
from 2011 till today that it was really

1822
00:58:26,708 --> 00:58:27,916
hard to raise money.

1823
00:58:28,875 --> 00:58:30,833
And sadly, other

1824
00:58:30,833 --> 00:58:32,833
startups had to close shop.

1825
00:58:33,375 --> 00:58:37,583
Frankly, I'm not saying

1826
00:58:37,583 --> 00:58:38,750
it's even their fault.

1827
00:58:39,208 --> 00:58:39,791
It's just that

1828
00:58:39,791 --> 00:58:41,916
sometimes an economy shifts

1829
00:58:41,916 --> 00:58:42,958
in a certain direction

1830
00:58:42,958 --> 00:58:44,708
that is harder to raise money

1831
00:58:44,708 --> 00:58:46,250
in given sectors.

1832
00:58:47,208 --> 00:58:49,333
And so thank goodness we

1833
00:58:49,333 --> 00:58:51,583
got through difficult times

1834
00:58:51,583 --> 00:58:55,916
of trying to raise funds to continue.

1835
00:58:56,958 --> 00:58:59,833
I can tell you is that the

1836
00:58:59,833 --> 00:59:00,250
company's in a very good position

1837
00:59:00,333 --> 00:59:05,416
now and is very sturdy and growing

1838
00:59:05,416 --> 00:59:09,375
and economically sustainable.

1839
00:59:10,583 --> 00:59:11,333
So I would just say

1840
00:59:11,333 --> 00:59:13,625
overall, you ask any founder,

1841
00:59:14,416 --> 00:59:16,166
most of them would

1842
00:59:16,166 --> 00:59:17,791
probably say raising money

1843
00:59:17,791 --> 00:59:22,875
was a big stressful component of the

1844
00:59:22,875 --> 00:59:23,875
company's existence.

1845
00:59:26,083 --> 00:59:27,458
What does your work look like day to day?

1846
00:59:27,458 --> 00:59:28,083
What do you spend

1847
00:59:28,083 --> 00:59:28,416
most of your time doing?

1848
00:59:28,416 --> 00:59:32,625
I know you guys have scaled quite a bit I think your past 200 people,

1849
00:59:33,083 --> 00:59:34,083
like what is the highest

1850
00:59:34,083 --> 00:59:35,208
leverage use of your time

1851
00:59:35,208 --> 00:59:37,500
that you spend every day at Eat Just?

1852
00:59:38,333 --> 00:59:39,875
So I devote very little

1853
00:59:39,875 --> 00:59:41,375
time in Eat Just these days.

1854
00:59:41,375 --> 00:59:43,375
I'm full time at the accountability board

1855
00:59:43,375 --> 00:59:44,416
where we're working

1856
00:59:44,416 --> 00:59:45,458
with these food companies

1857
00:59:45,458 --> 00:59:47,625
on various issues,

1858
00:59:47,625 --> 00:59:48,875
including animal welfare.

1859
00:59:50,041 --> 00:59:52,333
So each day, typically there are meetings

1860
00:59:52,333 --> 00:59:53,375
with these food companies,

1861
00:59:53,375 --> 00:59:54,625
with food company executives

1862
00:59:54,625 --> 00:59:56,166
and other companies, by

1863
00:59:56,166 --> 00:59:57,208
the way, on other issues.

1864
00:59:57,208 --> 01:00:02,208
And I think that's a good thing. And these meetings, they're lengthy,

1865
01:00:02,541 --> 01:00:02,958
they're sometimes

1866
01:00:02,958 --> 01:00:05,250
intense and they're continual.

1867
01:00:05,625 --> 01:00:06,958
When you're invested in

1868
01:00:06,958 --> 01:00:08,166
well over a hundred companies,

1869
01:00:08,750 --> 01:00:10,000
there's a whole lot of

1870
01:00:10,000 --> 01:00:11,666
negotiations that go on.

1871
01:00:11,958 --> 01:00:14,916
So that happens virtually every day.

1872
01:00:14,916 --> 01:00:15,750
There's some type of

1873
01:00:15,750 --> 01:00:17,625
meeting or meetings going on.

1874
01:00:18,375 --> 01:00:20,416
Simultaneously, I'm also

1875
01:00:20,416 --> 01:00:23,333
working on legislation.

1876
01:00:23,958 --> 01:00:26,208
And right now, as we're talking Daniel,

1877
01:00:26,708 --> 01:00:27,708
there's very bad

1878
01:00:27,708 --> 01:00:29,625
legislation that was introduced

1879
01:00:29,625 --> 01:00:32,083
in Congress called the Eats Act.

1880
01:00:33,166 --> 01:00:34,208
That legislation has been

1881
01:00:34,208 --> 01:00:35,541
pushed by the pork industry.

1882
01:00:36,500 --> 01:00:39,291
And what it would do is wipe out most

1883
01:00:39,291 --> 01:00:40,250
of the farm animal

1884
01:00:40,250 --> 01:00:41,625
laws in the United States.

1885
01:00:42,375 --> 01:00:43,291
The pork industry

1886
01:00:43,291 --> 01:00:46,333
fought to stop Proposition 12

1887
01:00:46,333 --> 01:00:47,416
in California, that

1888
01:00:47,416 --> 01:00:48,250
ballot measure we talked

1889
01:00:48,250 --> 01:00:49,625
about earlier, they lost.

1890
01:00:50,958 --> 01:00:53,000
They then sued California

1891
01:00:53,000 --> 01:00:53,875
saying it was unconstitutional.

1892
01:00:54,791 --> 01:00:55,500
That lawsuit went all the

1893
01:00:55,500 --> 01:00:56,541
way up to the Supreme Court.

1894
01:00:57,333 --> 01:00:58,250
I devoted a year in my

1895
01:00:58,250 --> 01:00:59,291
life and now I have a lot

1896
01:00:59,291 --> 01:01:00,916
of gray hairs working on that case.

1897
01:01:01,750 --> 01:01:03,875
And we won, we won it to

1898
01:01:03,875 --> 01:01:06,083
Supreme Court in a big upset.

1899
01:01:07,125 --> 01:01:07,916
Predicting markets

1900
01:01:07,916 --> 01:01:09,166
said that we would lose,

1901
01:01:09,166 --> 01:01:10,250
but no, the Supreme Court

1902
01:01:10,250 --> 01:01:11,083
of the United States ruled

1903
01:01:11,083 --> 01:01:12,041
that California had the

1904
01:01:12,041 --> 01:01:13,791
right to pass such a law.

1905
01:01:14,500 --> 01:01:16,000
So the pork industry was 0 for 2.

1906
01:01:16,875 --> 01:01:17,458
And now what they're

1907
01:01:17,458 --> 01:01:19,000
trying to do is go to Congress

1908
01:01:20,000 --> 01:01:23,333
and have a federal law that

1909
01:01:23,333 --> 01:01:25,958
supersedes all the state laws

1910
01:01:26,333 --> 01:01:27,791
banning States from having

1911
01:01:27,791 --> 01:01:30,750
such type of rules that mandate

1912
01:01:30,916 --> 01:01:32,875
that pigs, God forbid, have

1913
01:01:32,875 --> 01:01:33,791
to be able to turn around.

1914
01:01:34,500 --> 01:01:36,250
That's how messed up the

1915
01:01:36,250 --> 01:01:37,541
United States pork industry

1916
01:01:37,541 --> 01:01:40,000
by and large is, is that the leadership

1917
01:01:40,000 --> 01:01:41,000
of the industry is

1918
01:01:41,000 --> 01:01:42,791
devoting so many resources,

1919
01:01:43,083 --> 01:01:44,375
tens of millions of dollars,

1920
01:01:44,666 --> 01:01:47,375
and their major lobbying power in DC

1921
01:01:48,166 --> 01:01:49,041
to try to overturn

1922
01:01:49,041 --> 01:01:50,833
laws that simply say pigs

1923
01:01:51,458 --> 01:01:52,750
should be able to turn around.

1924
01:01:53,416 --> 01:01:54,000
Think about that.

1925
01:01:54,625 --> 01:01:56,416
That's how far off this

1926
01:01:56,416 --> 01:01:58,791
industry is with societal norms,

1927
01:01:59,333 --> 01:02:01,041
with how animals ought to be treated.

1928
01:02:01,791 --> 01:02:04,083
So I'm devoting a lot of my time,

1929
01:02:04,083 --> 01:02:06,166
lobbying in Congress

1930
01:02:06,166 --> 01:02:07,291
and doing other type of

1931
01:02:07,291 --> 01:02:09,125
work with coalition members,

1932
01:02:09,125 --> 01:02:10,916
including pig farmers who've moved away

1933
01:02:10,916 --> 01:02:12,791
from gestation crates to

1934
01:02:12,791 --> 01:02:14,291
prevent this legislation

1935
01:02:14,833 --> 01:02:15,208
from passing.

1936
01:02:16,583 --> 01:02:18,000
What's a gestation crate for

1937
01:02:18,000 --> 01:02:19,000
viewers who might not know?

1938
01:02:19,958 --> 01:02:20,916
Thank you for asking.

1939
01:02:20,916 --> 01:02:22,291
Gestation crates are those cages

1940
01:02:22,291 --> 01:02:22,958
where those mother

1941
01:02:22,958 --> 01:02:24,083
pigs can't turn around.

1942
01:02:24,333 --> 01:02:25,458
So where these mother

1943
01:02:25,458 --> 01:02:26,708
pigs can't turn around,

1944
01:02:26,708 --> 01:02:27,208
it's during their

1945
01:02:27,208 --> 01:02:29,000
pregnancy in these crates

1946
01:02:29,166 --> 01:02:30,333
and it's when they're gestating.

1947
01:02:30,583 --> 01:02:31,625
So that's why those cages

1948
01:02:31,625 --> 01:02:32,875
are called gestation crates.

1949
01:02:34,083 --> 01:02:35,666
For three weeks where I mentioned

1950
01:02:35,666 --> 01:02:38,041
that they are nursing their young,

1951
01:02:38,041 --> 01:02:38,875
that's a different crate

1952
01:02:38,875 --> 01:02:39,750
called a farrowing crate.

1953
01:02:40,375 --> 01:02:41,583
Again, they still can't turn around.

1954
01:02:42,250 --> 01:02:42,708
And when they're done

1955
01:02:42,708 --> 01:02:43,416
nursing, they're young,

1956
01:02:43,416 --> 01:02:45,166
they're put back in that gestation crate.

1957
01:02:45,208 --> 01:02:45,916
It's that cage where

1958
01:02:45,916 --> 01:02:46,666
they can't turn around

1959
01:02:47,166 --> 01:02:47,958
for that cycle to

1960
01:02:47,958 --> 01:02:49,875
continue for years on end.

1961
01:02:50,750 --> 01:02:51,833
Did I find the right one here?

1962
01:02:53,416 --> 01:02:53,625
Yep.

1963
01:02:55,583 --> 01:02:56,083
There you go.

1964
01:02:57,125 --> 01:02:57,500
Pretty terrible.

1965
01:02:59,208 --> 01:03:00,791
So for those who are watching,

1966
01:03:01,833 --> 01:03:03,833
I mean, we're talking about

1967
01:03:03,833 --> 01:03:05,791
a facility where, you know,

1968
01:03:05,791 --> 01:03:08,208
these pigs are confined in a cage

1969
01:03:09,041 --> 01:03:10,583
where the cage is barely

1970
01:03:10,583 --> 01:03:11,666
larger than their bodies.

1971
01:03:13,125 --> 01:03:14,041
They can't turn around.

1972
01:03:14,708 --> 01:03:15,958
They're just lined up as if

1973
01:03:15,958 --> 01:03:17,000
they're inanimate objects.

1974
01:03:17,875 --> 01:03:18,625
The only thing that

1975
01:03:18,625 --> 01:03:20,166
happens in terms of the treatment

1976
01:03:20,166 --> 01:03:21,708
of these pigs is that there's

1977
01:03:21,708 --> 01:03:23,250
food that is put in the front

1978
01:03:24,041 --> 01:03:26,375
and the waste is hosed out

1979
01:03:26,375 --> 01:03:28,541
from the back and that's it.

1980
01:03:30,083 --> 01:03:32,333
And there's no animal husbandry.

1981
01:03:32,791 --> 01:03:33,833
It's just treating these

1982
01:03:33,833 --> 01:03:35,041
pigs as if they are machines.

1983
01:03:35,583 --> 01:03:38,750
In fact, when gestation crates, those

1984
01:03:38,750 --> 01:03:40,583
cages were invented,

1985
01:03:41,000 --> 01:03:43,708
pork industry management

1986
01:03:43,708 --> 01:03:46,333
booklets told pork producers

1987
01:03:46,333 --> 01:03:48,250
to quote, "Treat pigs

1988
01:03:48,250 --> 01:03:49,375
as if they are machines."

1989
01:03:50,583 --> 01:03:52,416
And so when you see these

1990
01:03:52,416 --> 01:03:53,833
animals as if they're machines,

1991
01:03:54,125 --> 01:03:55,833
you can understand how

1992
01:03:55,833 --> 01:03:56,791
they're treated so poorly.

1993
01:03:57,750 --> 01:04:01,916
You know, if I threw my chair away

1994
01:04:01,916 --> 01:04:04,208
and just threw the chair in the dumpster,

1995
01:04:04,416 --> 01:04:05,208
people are like, "Oh, who cares?

1996
01:04:05,416 --> 01:04:05,541
"It's just a chair in a dumpster."

1997
01:04:05,666 --> 01:04:10,041
But if you view a pig as if

1998
01:04:10,041 --> 01:04:13,583
this pig has the same moral

1999
01:04:13,583 --> 01:04:16,958
standard as a chair, then

2000
01:04:16,958 --> 01:04:18,500
you can do things to a pig,

2001
01:04:18,500 --> 01:04:19,958
like put the pig in a cage

2002
01:04:19,958 --> 01:04:21,208
where she can never turn around.

2003
01:04:22,125 --> 01:04:23,125
And that's how the pork

2004
01:04:23,125 --> 01:04:25,625
industry has taught producers

2005
01:04:25,625 --> 01:04:27,125
to treat their pigs.

2006
01:04:27,458 --> 01:04:27,916
And that's why

2007
01:04:27,916 --> 01:04:29,500
conditions have gone so poorly.

2008
01:04:31,375 --> 01:04:32,333
Could you have imagined when

2009
01:04:32,333 --> 01:04:33,791
you were a kid or a teenager

2010
01:04:33,791 --> 01:04:34,875
that you'd be having so much impact on your own?

2011
01:04:35,000 --> 01:04:35,375
I'm not making so much

2012
01:04:35,375 --> 01:04:36,833
impact in the world today.

2013
01:04:39,291 --> 01:04:41,333
Well, I hope I'm making an impact.

2014
01:04:41,791 --> 01:04:42,666
I feel like--

2015
01:04:42,666 --> 01:04:43,458
Don't be modest.

2016
01:04:44,625 --> 01:04:45,250
(laughs)

2017
01:04:45,250 --> 01:04:46,583
You've been doing some

2018
01:04:46,583 --> 01:04:47,500
pretty tremendous work.

2019
01:04:48,500 --> 01:04:49,708
You're very kind and

2020
01:04:49,708 --> 01:04:51,291
I'm grateful to be part

2021
01:04:51,291 --> 01:04:55,375
of such a great team doing all this work

2022
01:04:55,375 --> 01:04:56,500
that we talked about today.

2023
01:04:57,333 --> 01:04:58,958
When I can tell you, when I was a kid,

2024
01:04:59,750 --> 01:05:00,791
I certainly was

2025
01:05:00,791 --> 01:05:03,375
envisioning me more pitching

2026
01:05:05,041 --> 01:05:06,708
than waging a ballot

2027
01:05:06,708 --> 01:05:07,583
measure in California

2028
01:05:07,791 --> 01:05:09,083
to get chickens out of cages.

2029
01:05:10,708 --> 01:05:11,625
So it's definitely

2030
01:05:11,625 --> 01:05:13,500
different than I envisioned.

2031
01:05:13,500 --> 01:05:14,500
What I can tell you is

2032
01:05:14,500 --> 01:05:18,291
that when I was raised by my,

2033
01:05:18,333 --> 01:05:21,416
mostly by my dad, the heroes that he

2034
01:05:21,416 --> 01:05:22,291
would always talk about

2035
01:05:22,291 --> 01:05:24,666
are those who fought to

2036
01:05:24,666 --> 01:05:25,750
make the world a better place.

2037
01:05:26,375 --> 01:05:28,958
You know, he taught me, and he also

2038
01:05:28,958 --> 01:05:29,791
taught in high school

2039
01:05:29,791 --> 01:05:31,375
as a teacher about Gandhi.

2040
01:05:32,250 --> 01:05:33,250
He taught about the

2041
01:05:33,250 --> 01:05:34,083
civil rights movement.

2042
01:05:35,333 --> 01:05:40,333
He talked about heroic Jews and Gentiles

2043
01:05:40,458 --> 01:05:42,916
who saved folks during the Holocaust.

2044
01:05:44,291 --> 01:05:47,208
And so when you're living in a household

2045
01:05:47,416 --> 01:05:48,541
where you're

2046
01:05:48,541 --> 01:05:51,458
constantly hearing about those

2047
01:05:51,625 --> 01:05:53,583
who have fought to make the world better,

2048
01:05:54,333 --> 01:05:58,125
it penetrates you that to

2049
01:05:58,125 --> 01:05:59,416
want to have similar value,

2050
01:06:00,416 --> 01:06:03,583
you want to also try

2051
01:06:03,583 --> 01:06:04,375
to make a difference,

2052
01:06:04,375 --> 01:06:05,333
at least in your own way.

2053
01:06:06,250 --> 01:06:08,750
So I did have such a thought

2054
01:06:08,750 --> 01:06:10,250
that I wanted to make some difference.

2055
01:06:10,250 --> 01:06:11,375
I don't know whether it

2056
01:06:11,375 --> 01:06:12,416
was during my baseball

2057
01:06:12,416 --> 01:06:13,833
or probably afterwards,

2058
01:06:14,583 --> 01:06:15,666
but I certainly wanted

2059
01:06:15,666 --> 01:06:16,500
to try to make the world

2060
01:06:16,500 --> 01:06:17,291
a better place.

2061
01:06:18,833 --> 01:06:20,291
I think that for a lot of the time,

2062
01:06:20,291 --> 01:06:21,500
I just didn't know what to do.

2063
01:06:22,458 --> 01:06:24,750
And I know in college, I

2064
01:06:24,750 --> 01:06:25,833
still didn't know what to do.

2065
01:06:25,833 --> 01:06:27,333
And so my big campaign in college

2066
01:06:27,416 --> 01:06:30,416
on baseball road trips

2067
01:06:30,416 --> 01:06:32,500
was for the cafeteria

2068
01:06:32,500 --> 01:06:33,375
to offer peanut

2069
01:06:33,375 --> 01:06:34,500
butter and jelly sandwiches

2070
01:06:34,500 --> 01:06:36,708
for players who wanted to choose

2071
01:06:36,708 --> 01:06:37,750
to eat a vegetarian

2072
01:06:37,750 --> 01:06:38,958
meal on the road trip.

2073
01:06:39,625 --> 01:06:40,333
And so that was my

2074
01:06:40,333 --> 01:06:41,916
first big win, so to speak.

2075
01:06:42,625 --> 01:06:45,291
And so I don't know if

2076
01:06:45,291 --> 01:06:47,625
that standard holds today

2077
01:06:47,625 --> 01:06:48,750
where I went to school,

2078
01:06:48,750 --> 01:06:50,291
but I certainly at the time,

2079
01:06:50,291 --> 01:06:51,583
I was really proud of what I did.

2080
01:06:52,875 --> 01:06:54,875
But at the end of the

2081
01:06:54,875 --> 01:06:55,000
day, at least for me,

2082
01:06:56,041 --> 01:07:00,125
I basically feel as if I'm just a tool

2083
01:07:00,125 --> 01:07:00,916
to try to make things

2084
01:07:00,916 --> 01:07:02,625
better, frankly, until I die.

2085
01:07:03,333 --> 01:07:05,458
And then hopefully others carry the torch

2086
01:07:05,458 --> 01:07:06,833
and be more effective

2087
01:07:06,833 --> 01:07:08,458
and do even better work.

2088
01:07:09,375 --> 01:07:11,500
Were there moments along the journey

2089
01:07:11,500 --> 01:07:13,916
where you had doubts in the conviction

2090
01:07:13,916 --> 01:07:15,291
for what you're working on?

2091
01:07:15,541 --> 01:07:16,666
Or has it always been

2092
01:07:16,666 --> 01:07:18,125
like very straightforward,

2093
01:07:18,125 --> 01:07:19,250
very easy, very

2094
01:07:19,250 --> 01:07:20,458
empathy and compassion led,

2095
01:07:20,708 --> 01:07:22,541
like no doubt of any kind?

2096
01:07:23,500 --> 01:07:23,583
I never had doubts.

2097
01:07:23,583 --> 01:07:24,625
I never had doubts

2098
01:07:24,625 --> 01:07:26,916
related to the conviction

2099
01:07:27,333 --> 01:07:29,541
that I've had related to trying to do

2100
01:07:29,541 --> 01:07:32,291
as everything I could to reduce

2101
01:07:32,708 --> 01:07:34,250
and hopefully stop the suffering

2102
01:07:34,500 --> 01:07:35,791
of as many animals as possible.

2103
01:07:37,291 --> 01:07:38,833
To me, it seems so obvious.

2104
01:07:38,833 --> 01:07:40,541
We just don't want animals to suffer.

2105
01:07:41,750 --> 01:07:43,208
It didn't, there wasn't like,

2106
01:07:43,208 --> 01:07:46,083
it's not like a tax policy.

2107
01:07:46,083 --> 01:07:46,833
They're like, gosh, you know,

2108
01:07:47,375 --> 01:07:48,333
the pros and cons of

2109
01:07:48,333 --> 01:07:49,750
this type of tax policy

2110
01:07:49,750 --> 01:07:51,583
versus this tax with tax policy,

2111
01:07:53,041 --> 01:07:55,833
or some type of, you

2112
01:07:55,833 --> 01:07:57,291
know, foreign negotiations

2113
01:07:57,875 --> 01:07:58,541
where it's like, oh,

2114
01:07:58,541 --> 01:07:59,458
you give and you take.

2115
01:07:59,916 --> 01:08:01,500
To me, it's really clear.

2116
01:08:02,458 --> 01:08:04,000
If we can stop suffering,

2117
01:08:04,000 --> 01:08:04,958
we should stop suffering.

2118
01:08:07,041 --> 01:08:09,125
So I've never veered away from that.

2119
01:08:09,416 --> 01:08:11,958
What I can tell you is that I've evolved

2120
01:08:11,958 --> 01:08:15,208
in what strategies that I've used

2121
01:08:15,208 --> 01:08:16,666
to try to make the impact.

2122
01:08:17,583 --> 01:08:18,625
Certainly years ago, I

2123
01:08:18,625 --> 01:08:20,208
did things at the time

2124
01:08:20,208 --> 01:08:21,166
I thought were effective.

2125
01:08:21,208 --> 01:08:22,125
Looking back, I'm

2126
01:08:22,125 --> 01:08:23,583
thinking, my gosh, Josh,

2127
01:08:23,583 --> 01:08:24,750
what the hell were you doing?

2128
01:08:25,791 --> 01:08:27,166
And I'm thinking, if you

2129
01:08:27,166 --> 01:08:28,083
and I are talking to Daniel

2130
01:08:28,083 --> 01:08:28,833
in five years, there are

2131
01:08:28,833 --> 01:08:29,875
gonna be things I'm doing now

2132
01:08:30,125 --> 01:08:31,916
that I probably would think, oh, come on,

2133
01:08:31,916 --> 01:08:32,833
I wish you did better.

2134
01:08:33,625 --> 01:08:36,708
So it's more of evolution of

2135
01:08:36,708 --> 01:08:37,875
trying to be more effective

2136
01:08:38,250 --> 01:08:41,125
than an evolution away from caring

2137
01:08:41,708 --> 01:08:43,291
about the treatment of animals.

2138
01:08:44,375 --> 01:08:45,541
When you've talked about

2139
01:08:45,541 --> 01:08:48,125
a distant utopian future,

2140
01:08:48,125 --> 01:08:50,958
you know, among peers, or maybe early on

2141
01:08:51,041 --> 01:08:52,333
in your journey, did you

2142
01:08:52,333 --> 01:08:54,250
find that it would disconnect

2143
01:08:54,250 --> 01:08:55,666
and distance the

2144
01:08:55,666 --> 01:08:57,166
audience that you're talking to,

2145
01:08:57,166 --> 01:08:58,541
whether it's one-on-one or to a group?

2146
01:08:59,208 --> 01:09:00,208
Like, I can tell that

2147
01:09:00,208 --> 01:09:01,666
you're really trying

2148
01:09:01,666 --> 01:09:02,916
to make it one step at a time.

2149
01:09:03,333 --> 01:09:05,583
And I'm sure that helps keep folks

2150
01:09:05,583 --> 01:09:06,666
engaged to some extent.

2151
01:09:07,250 --> 01:09:08,125
What was your findings

2152
01:09:08,125 --> 01:09:09,041
when you were talking

2153
01:09:09,041 --> 01:09:11,125
about things that are just too far out?

2154
01:09:12,958 --> 01:09:14,250
It's less about other people.

2155
01:09:14,250 --> 01:09:15,083
It's more about me.

2156
01:09:15,083 --> 01:09:16,666
I'm just not motivated about that.

2157
01:09:17,375 --> 01:09:24,000
I just feel like it's almost fanciful

2158
01:09:25,041 --> 01:09:26,916
to talk so far into the future.

2159
01:09:27,791 --> 01:09:29,333
It's just disconnected

2160
01:09:29,333 --> 01:09:30,875
from what's in front of you.

2161
01:09:30,916 --> 01:09:31,166
Right.

2162
01:09:32,416 --> 01:09:36,375
You know, it's almost like, you know,

2163
01:09:36,583 --> 01:09:39,666
if my dog, if I had a

2164
01:09:39,666 --> 01:09:41,916
dog and my dog had cancer,

2165
01:09:42,916 --> 01:09:44,416
and dog's satellite had

2166
01:09:44,416 --> 01:09:45,625
cancer and passed away,

2167
01:09:46,958 --> 01:09:48,791
that I want to focus right now,

2168
01:09:48,791 --> 01:09:50,250
what do I have to do to

2169
01:09:50,250 --> 01:09:51,875
cure my dog of this cancer?

2170
01:09:52,666 --> 01:09:52,958
It's immediate.

2171
01:09:53,291 --> 01:09:53,958
It's in front of you.

2172
01:09:54,000 --> 01:09:54,833
Right in front of me.

2173
01:09:55,291 --> 01:09:56,333
I want to do it now.

2174
01:09:56,333 --> 01:09:57,333
I don't want to think, gosh,

2175
01:09:57,333 --> 01:09:59,500
what would cancer treatment look like

2176
01:09:59,500 --> 01:10:01,500
in five, 10, 30 years from now?

2177
01:10:01,875 --> 01:10:02,708
You know, what type of dog

2178
01:10:02,708 --> 01:10:03,958
would I work 30 years from now?

2179
01:10:03,958 --> 01:10:05,000
What type of life would I want?

2180
01:10:05,291 --> 01:10:06,166
It's right in front of

2181
01:10:06,166 --> 01:10:08,458
my face, at least for me.

2182
01:10:09,041 --> 01:10:10,291
And I'm not saying this for everybody.

2183
01:10:10,666 --> 01:10:11,541
And other people can

2184
01:10:11,541 --> 01:10:12,791
look more in the future.

2185
01:10:12,875 --> 01:10:14,625
And if that works to them, fantastic.

2186
01:10:15,625 --> 01:10:18,000
It just does not resonate with me

2187
01:10:18,000 --> 01:10:19,375
to look so far in the future.

2188
01:10:20,000 --> 01:10:21,208
I need to look at now.

2189
01:10:21,833 --> 01:10:23,083
And I got to tell you,

2190
01:10:23,083 --> 01:10:25,083
and maybe that is part of,

2191
01:10:26,000 --> 01:10:28,416
coming from the athletic

2192
01:10:28,416 --> 01:10:30,291
background that I previously had,

2193
01:10:30,791 --> 01:10:33,375
is that when you are playing a sport

2194
01:10:33,833 --> 01:10:35,291
and you think in the future you lose,

2195
01:10:35,875 --> 01:10:37,416
you got to focus on the moment.

2196
01:10:38,500 --> 01:10:40,125
And I know that I was a pitcher,

2197
01:10:40,375 --> 01:10:41,875
so I had to focus on every pitch.

2198
01:10:42,833 --> 01:10:43,458
And if you're a hitter,

2199
01:10:43,708 --> 01:10:44,541
you're focusing on every

2200
01:10:44,541 --> 01:10:45,583
pitch that comes your way.

2201
01:10:46,000 --> 01:10:46,541
I don't care if

2202
01:10:46,541 --> 01:10:47,333
you're a basketball player

2203
01:10:47,416 --> 01:10:49,250
focusing on your shot, a football player

2204
01:10:49,708 --> 01:10:50,666
focusing on the ball

2205
01:10:50,666 --> 01:10:51,500
that you're trying to catch

2206
01:10:51,500 --> 01:10:52,833
for a touchdown, you got to

2207
01:10:52,833 --> 01:10:54,250
focus on the moment in time.

2208
01:10:55,083 --> 01:10:56,541
And if you veer away from that,

2209
01:10:57,166 --> 01:10:58,916
that's when we start failing.

2210
01:10:59,333 --> 01:11:01,333
So it does not resonate with me

2211
01:11:01,333 --> 01:11:02,500
to talk so far in the future.

2212
01:11:03,000 --> 01:11:03,666
So it's not some

2213
01:11:03,666 --> 01:11:06,458
strategy for external purposes.

2214
01:11:06,958 --> 01:11:08,500
It's more about just who I am.

2215
01:11:09,791 --> 01:11:12,833
Is a fully plant-based society

2216
01:11:13,083 --> 01:11:14,500
still too far in the future

2217
01:11:14,500 --> 01:11:16,333
to think about as realistic?

2218
01:11:19,125 --> 01:11:20,125
I don't know whether

2219
01:11:20,125 --> 01:11:21,458
that would happen or not.

2220
01:11:21,833 --> 01:11:23,250
I'll leave that to others to decide.

2221
01:11:23,500 --> 01:11:25,041
What I can tell you is

2222
01:11:25,041 --> 01:11:26,625
that it is certainly better

2223
01:11:26,750 --> 01:11:28,291
for the world if we eat

2224
01:11:28,291 --> 01:11:29,208
more plant-based meals.

2225
01:11:30,000 --> 01:11:31,333
It is better to reduce

2226
01:11:31,333 --> 01:11:32,333
greenhouse gas emissions,

2227
01:11:32,333 --> 01:11:33,416
it's better for health, it's

2228
01:11:33,416 --> 01:11:34,708
obviously better for animals,

2229
01:11:34,708 --> 01:11:36,458
that fewer animals are raised inside

2230
01:11:36,666 --> 01:11:37,833
these horrible factory farms

2231
01:11:37,833 --> 01:11:39,000
and killed in these slaughterhouses.

2232
01:11:39,916 --> 01:11:41,375
So it is certainly a

2233
01:11:41,375 --> 01:11:43,333
better thing if we start moving

2234
01:11:43,791 --> 01:11:45,125
in a plant-based direction.

2235
01:11:45,875 --> 01:11:46,625
And when I'm talking

2236
01:11:46,625 --> 01:11:47,333
about starting moving,

2237
01:11:47,333 --> 01:11:49,583
I'm talking about studies that show

2238
01:11:50,541 --> 01:11:53,416
that if someone just bought local,

2239
01:11:53,666 --> 01:11:54,250
and that's all they

2240
01:11:54,250 --> 01:11:55,375
did is buy local food,

2241
01:11:55,833 --> 01:11:56,708
but they kept eating the

2242
01:11:56,708 --> 01:11:57,750
same amount of animal products,

2243
01:11:57,750 --> 01:11:58,458
but they all bought local,

2244
01:11:59,041 --> 01:12:00,041
compared to someone

2245
01:12:00,041 --> 01:12:02,541
who did Meatless Monday,

2246
01:12:03,041 --> 01:12:04,500
the person who did Meatless Monday

2247
01:12:04,833 --> 01:12:05,333
and then just kept

2248
01:12:05,333 --> 01:12:06,291
everything else the same,

2249
01:12:06,958 --> 01:12:08,625
reduced greenhouse gas emissions more

2250
01:12:08,625 --> 01:12:09,916
in terms of their impact

2251
01:12:09,916 --> 01:12:11,250
than someone who bought local

2252
01:12:11,250 --> 01:12:12,916
every single meal that they had.

2253
01:12:14,458 --> 01:12:15,791
If we believe in the

2254
01:12:15,791 --> 01:12:16,916
science of climate change,

2255
01:12:17,416 --> 01:12:18,625
there's no way we can

2256
01:12:18,625 --> 01:12:20,041
meet any of the goals

2257
01:12:20,916 --> 01:12:23,250
to hit some Paris Climate

2258
01:12:23,250 --> 01:12:24,666
Accord or even anything close

2259
01:12:25,083 --> 01:12:26,208
if we continue to eat

2260
01:12:26,208 --> 01:12:28,083
as much meat as we do.

2261
01:12:29,291 --> 01:12:30,500
And listen, there's

2262
01:12:30,500 --> 01:12:31,708
gonna be a big variety of us,

2263
01:12:31,708 --> 01:12:33,416
hopefully, to move in a better direction.

2264
01:12:33,541 --> 01:12:33,958
There's gonna be some

2265
01:12:33,958 --> 01:12:35,291
folks that go vegan, great.

2266
01:12:35,416 --> 01:12:36,125
There's gonna be some folks that go

2267
01:12:36,125 --> 01:12:37,000
vegetarian, wonderful.

2268
01:12:37,500 --> 01:12:37,916
There's gonna be some

2269
01:12:37,916 --> 01:12:39,708
folks that do Meatless Monday

2270
01:12:39,916 --> 01:12:42,250
or vegan before 6 p.m. or

2271
01:12:42,250 --> 01:12:43,583
any iteration of the above.

2272
01:12:44,250 --> 01:12:45,166
As long as we can't

2273
01:12:45,166 --> 01:12:46,208
move in that direction,

2274
01:12:47,166 --> 01:12:48,041
that's what I'm

2275
01:12:48,041 --> 01:12:49,833
looking at more short-term

2276
01:12:49,958 --> 01:12:51,833
versus a plant-based

2277
01:12:51,833 --> 01:12:53,125
future 50 years from now,

2278
01:12:53,125 --> 01:12:54,250
100 years and 150 years.

2279
01:12:55,125 --> 01:12:56,916
It's hard to look that far out.

2280
01:12:58,166 --> 01:12:59,916
I'm not smart enough to do it, Daniel.

2281
01:13:00,208 --> 01:13:01,541
Maybe others are, but I'm not.

2282
01:13:02,500 --> 01:13:03,500
I think if anyone's got a

2283
01:13:03,500 --> 01:13:04,750
chance, it's probably you, Josh.

2284
01:13:04,875 --> 01:13:05,333
I don't think you give

2285
01:13:05,333 --> 01:13:06,083
yourself enough credit

2286
01:13:06,083 --> 01:13:07,416
in terms of seeing

2287
01:13:07,416 --> 01:13:08,250
what's around the corner.

2288
01:13:08,250 --> 01:13:09,083
You saw a lot of what

2289
01:13:09,083 --> 01:13:09,833
was around the corner,

2290
01:13:09,833 --> 01:13:10,916
even 15 years back.

2291
01:13:11,833 --> 01:13:13,708
So, would love to pick

2292
01:13:13,708 --> 01:13:14,416
your brain more on that

2293
01:13:14,416 --> 01:13:16,125
perhaps another time as things develop.

2294
01:13:16,708 --> 01:13:18,791
I know you've been using capitalism

2295
01:13:19,833 --> 01:13:22,083
as a tool to create change.

2296
01:13:22,083 --> 01:13:22,625
Do you think there are

2297
01:13:22,625 --> 01:13:23,833
going to be limitations

2298
01:13:24,416 --> 01:13:26,458
to how far you can create

2299
01:13:26,458 --> 01:13:27,750
interventions with capitalism?

2300
01:13:28,333 --> 01:13:30,083
And if so, what other

2301
01:13:30,083 --> 01:13:31,375
kinds of tools can be used

2302
01:13:31,875 --> 01:13:33,833
to create more meaningful interventions?

2303
01:13:35,750 --> 01:13:37,458
The two interventions that I have found

2304
01:13:37,458 --> 01:13:40,000
to be most effective are

2305
01:13:40,000 --> 01:13:45,500
capitalism and basic democracy.

2306
01:13:47,041 --> 01:13:47,750
Capitalism through these

2307
01:13:47,750 --> 01:13:49,208
corporations making changes

2308
01:13:50,000 --> 01:13:51,000
and democracy being

2309
01:13:51,000 --> 01:13:52,166
able to pass these laws.

2310
01:13:53,083 --> 01:13:53,250
Sure.

2311
01:13:53,958 --> 01:13:56,583
So, what I would say is

2312
01:13:56,583 --> 01:13:58,875
that there's nothing inherent

2313
01:13:59,583 --> 01:14:01,625
about capitalism that

2314
01:14:01,625 --> 01:14:02,833
should make things worse

2315
01:14:03,208 --> 01:14:04,791
for animals or the world in general.

2316
01:14:05,666 --> 01:14:06,750
There are a lot of great

2317
01:14:06,750 --> 01:14:09,000
companies that are excelling,

2318
01:14:09,833 --> 01:14:12,000
doing really good work in the world.

2319
01:14:13,208 --> 01:14:14,333
And there are a lot of

2320
01:14:14,333 --> 01:14:16,875
companies that are failing

2321
01:14:17,083 --> 01:14:17,583
that have been doing

2322
01:14:17,583 --> 01:14:18,708
bad work in the world.

2323
01:14:19,916 --> 01:14:22,416
And I would feel

2324
01:14:22,416 --> 01:14:25,083
differently if ordinary people

2325
01:14:25,291 --> 01:14:26,833
just did not care at all,

2326
01:14:27,375 --> 01:14:28,541
at least about the treatment of animals.

2327
01:14:28,833 --> 01:14:30,625
Sure. For a topic today, then

2328
01:14:30,625 --> 01:14:32,000
I'd be more concerned.

2329
01:14:33,083 --> 01:14:35,750
But I cannot imagine a world that it

2330
01:14:35,750 --> 01:14:36,833
doesn't help companies

2331
01:14:36,958 --> 01:14:38,916
excel in a capitalistic society

2332
01:14:39,416 --> 01:14:40,750
if they do better for animals.

2333
01:14:41,666 --> 01:14:43,666
I can't imagine any

2334
01:14:43,666 --> 01:14:45,000
company losing market share

2335
01:14:45,375 --> 01:14:46,625
because customers learn

2336
01:14:46,625 --> 01:14:48,541
they're doing better for animals.

2337
01:14:49,875 --> 01:14:52,166
That's why I feel really

2338
01:14:52,166 --> 01:14:53,500
confident that capitalism

2339
01:14:55,125 --> 01:14:57,541
has been and continue to be used

2340
01:14:58,166 --> 01:15:00,916
to improve the treatment of animals.

2341
01:15:01,750 --> 01:15:05,125
Simultaneously, what I also believe

2342
01:15:05,333 --> 01:15:07,000
is that it is important to pass laws

2343
01:15:07,541 --> 01:15:09,083
because there's some things in societies

2344
01:15:09,083 --> 01:15:11,416
that should be banned.

2345
01:15:12,000 --> 01:15:14,166
I think we can all agree that there

2346
01:15:14,166 --> 01:15:15,375
shouldn't be dog fighting.

2347
01:15:17,041 --> 01:15:18,375
Having dog fighting is a

2348
01:15:18,375 --> 01:15:19,541
free market opportunity.

2349
01:15:19,875 --> 01:15:21,333
I think it is something that

2350
01:15:21,333 --> 01:15:22,333
we probably don't agree with.

2351
01:15:22,958 --> 01:15:24,333
We probably don't agree that,

2352
01:15:24,875 --> 01:15:26,333
hey, let a free market rule

2353
01:15:26,750 --> 01:15:28,333
whether people can

2354
01:15:28,333 --> 01:15:29,708
light their pets on fire

2355
01:15:30,083 --> 01:15:30,833
or have cock riding

2356
01:15:30,833 --> 01:15:32,250
fighting rings in their backyard.

2357
01:15:32,750 --> 01:15:34,250
I think we all agree, you know what?

2358
01:15:34,250 --> 01:15:35,541
There should be some rules here,

2359
01:15:36,083 --> 01:15:39,125
some basic societal ground rules

2360
01:15:40,375 --> 01:15:42,416
that ensure some level

2361
01:15:42,416 --> 01:15:43,875
of a compassionate society

2362
01:15:43,875 --> 01:15:45,333
that reflect social norms

2363
01:15:45,333 --> 01:15:46,416
when it comes to treatment of animals.

2364
01:15:47,333 --> 01:15:50,083
I happen to believe that

2365
01:15:50,083 --> 01:15:52,125
the way we treat farm animals,

2366
01:15:52,166 --> 01:15:53,916
it is outside of those norms.

2367
01:15:54,875 --> 01:15:56,083
And when brought to

2368
01:15:56,083 --> 01:15:57,708
ordinary people's attentions,

2369
01:15:57,708 --> 01:15:58,791
they agree with me too.

2370
01:15:59,666 --> 01:16:01,583
We talked about California's Prop 12,

2371
01:16:02,541 --> 01:16:04,000
passing the law that

2372
01:16:04,000 --> 01:16:05,333
bans the sale of eggs, pork,

2373
01:16:05,333 --> 01:16:06,208
and veal from caged animals.

2374
01:16:06,750 --> 01:16:08,541
The first state where

2375
01:16:08,541 --> 01:16:10,291
voters banned the confinement

2376
01:16:10,291 --> 01:16:12,083
of those pigs in gestation crates of

2377
01:16:12,083 --> 01:16:13,416
small cages was Florida.

2378
01:16:14,125 --> 01:16:15,333
The second state was Arizona.

2379
01:16:16,250 --> 01:16:18,291
We're talking about red states

2380
01:16:19,250 --> 01:16:22,166
where Republican voters were saying,

2381
01:16:22,291 --> 01:16:24,208
no, this should not be allowed.

2382
01:16:24,833 --> 01:16:26,625
I don't care if someone makes a profit

2383
01:16:27,166 --> 01:16:28,625
off of selling meat from

2384
01:16:28,625 --> 01:16:29,666
animals who are abused.

2385
01:16:30,041 --> 01:16:31,791
This has just crossed a boundary.

2386
01:16:32,833 --> 01:16:34,833
And so, yes, red states have shown

2387
01:16:35,625 --> 01:16:38,000
that the consumers and

2388
01:16:38,000 --> 01:16:39,541
voters agree with this sentiment.

2389
01:16:40,000 --> 01:16:41,000
Blue states have shown it.

2390
01:16:41,750 --> 01:16:43,125
The swing states have shown

2391
01:16:43,125 --> 01:16:44,083
it banning these practices.

2392
01:16:44,750 --> 01:16:46,333
So, yes, I would say the

2393
01:16:46,333 --> 01:16:47,958
combination of using capitalism

2394
01:16:48,750 --> 01:16:51,333
and having some type of legal framework

2395
01:16:51,791 --> 01:16:53,333
is the formula to keep

2396
01:16:53,333 --> 01:16:54,625
moving things forward

2397
01:16:54,833 --> 01:16:55,791
for the treatment of animals.

2398
01:16:56,916 --> 01:16:58,833
Wouldn't you say capitalism is the reason

2399
01:16:59,041 --> 01:17:00,333
that this race to the bottom,

2400
01:17:00,833 --> 01:17:01,083
through the

2401
01:17:01,083 --> 01:17:02,750
commoditization of these products

2402
01:17:03,000 --> 01:17:05,083
and these antibiotics,

2403
01:17:05,375 --> 01:17:06,291
these gestation crates,

2404
01:17:06,500 --> 01:17:08,333
these horrible living conditions,

2405
01:17:08,333 --> 01:17:10,458
the maximization of yields through having

2406
01:17:10,458 --> 01:17:11,541
the chickens grow up

2407
01:17:11,541 --> 01:17:12,625
normally fast and large.

2408
01:17:13,833 --> 01:17:14,583
Aren't these driven

2409
01:17:14,583 --> 01:17:16,333
by fundamentally trying

2410
01:17:16,500 --> 01:17:20,833
to reduce cost per unit, per kilo?

2411
01:17:22,625 --> 01:17:23,333
Well, if that was the

2412
01:17:23,333 --> 01:17:25,833
case, then when in capitalist,

2413
01:17:26,083 --> 01:17:26,458
I'm just saying,

2414
01:17:26,833 --> 01:17:29,458
communist and socialist countries

2415
01:17:30,208 --> 01:17:31,541
in this theory treat

2416
01:17:31,541 --> 01:17:33,416
animals better, it doesn't happen.

2417
01:17:34,125 --> 01:17:35,458
They use battery cages too.

2418
01:17:36,375 --> 01:17:37,875
They use, I'm not trying

2419
01:17:37,875 --> 01:17:40,416
to go all the way to, yeah.

2420
01:17:40,791 --> 01:17:41,583
I think there's a lot of problems

2421
01:17:41,583 --> 01:17:43,458
with communism and socialism on a show.

2422
01:17:43,458 --> 01:17:44,333
I'm not trying to argue

2423
01:17:44,333 --> 01:17:45,208
for a different system.

2424
01:17:45,583 --> 01:17:47,666
I'm just trying to understand like how,

2425
01:17:47,666 --> 01:17:49,541
what are the limitations

2426
01:17:49,541 --> 01:17:50,625
of capitalist incentives?

2427
01:17:50,833 --> 01:17:52,625
I know that you've, go ahead.

2428
01:17:53,208 --> 01:17:54,708
Yeah, I think that here's the limitation

2429
01:17:55,000 --> 01:17:56,708
is that mistakes get

2430
01:17:56,708 --> 01:17:58,250
made because we're humans.

2431
01:17:59,375 --> 01:18:00,125
I make mistakes, you make

2432
01:18:00,125 --> 01:18:01,333
mistakes, we all make mistakes.

2433
01:18:02,375 --> 01:18:06,458
And yes, companies try to cut costs.

2434
01:18:07,208 --> 01:18:08,625
That is typical in a

2435
01:18:08,625 --> 01:18:10,833
capitalist society in any industry.

2436
01:18:11,791 --> 01:18:14,291
However, oftentimes

2437
01:18:14,291 --> 01:18:15,291
that leads to mistakes.

2438
01:18:16,833 --> 01:18:20,375
That oftentimes leads to less safe cars,

2439
01:18:20,958 --> 01:18:23,666
that leads to food safety concerns.

2440
01:18:24,250 --> 01:18:25,125
Even relate, forget about

2441
01:18:25,125 --> 01:18:26,083
animal products for a second.

2442
01:18:27,333 --> 01:18:28,708
Are we feeling, are we in a good position

2443
01:18:28,708 --> 01:18:29,833
if a food company cuts

2444
01:18:29,833 --> 01:18:32,750
costs by reducing what they do

2445
01:18:32,833 --> 01:18:35,291
to help ensure that their food is safe?

2446
01:18:35,458 --> 01:18:36,625
We're not cool with that.

2447
01:18:37,583 --> 01:18:38,666
You know, what about,

2448
01:18:38,666 --> 01:18:40,458
are we good with airliners

2449
01:18:40,750 --> 01:18:41,500
cutting costs by

2450
01:18:41,500 --> 01:18:43,458
reducing safety measures?

2451
01:18:43,833 --> 01:18:44,375
Of course not.

2452
01:18:45,375 --> 01:18:48,125
So we know that in a capitalist society,

2453
01:18:49,125 --> 01:18:50,833
industries try to cut

2454
01:18:50,833 --> 01:18:52,666
costs, they do, I get it.

2455
01:18:53,458 --> 01:18:56,166
Hopefully, corrective measures are made.

2456
01:18:57,000 --> 01:18:58,666
When the things that

2457
01:18:58,666 --> 01:18:59,916
they try to cut costs for

2458
01:19:00,500 --> 01:19:01,041
were actually not

2459
01:19:01,041 --> 01:19:02,208
beneficial for the company.

2460
01:19:03,333 --> 01:19:07,125
So you are right is that

2461
01:19:07,125 --> 01:19:08,333
the advent of these cages

2462
01:19:08,333 --> 01:19:10,916
for animals was not

2463
01:19:10,916 --> 01:19:12,291
because they wanted animals

2464
01:19:12,291 --> 01:19:13,125
to be tortured.

2465
01:19:13,541 --> 01:19:14,666
These aren't, they weren't

2466
01:19:14,666 --> 01:19:16,333
invented by some monsters

2467
01:19:16,333 --> 01:19:18,000
who just loved animal suffering.

2468
01:19:19,000 --> 01:19:20,375
Their belief was that,

2469
01:19:20,375 --> 01:19:21,916
hey, let's cut costs.

2470
01:19:22,833 --> 01:19:24,208
And you know, maybe

2471
01:19:24,208 --> 01:19:25,458
animals don't matter that much.

2472
01:19:25,458 --> 01:19:26,125
At least that's what the

2473
01:19:26,125 --> 01:19:27,333
industry is telling us now.

2474
01:19:27,333 --> 01:19:28,000
They don't matter much.

2475
01:19:28,375 --> 01:19:28,958
I think you're right.

2476
01:19:29,625 --> 01:19:32,416
What I can say is that corrective

2477
01:19:32,416 --> 01:19:33,583
measures had been made.

2478
01:19:34,500 --> 01:19:35,625
Now we're working on it.

2479
01:19:36,333 --> 01:19:37,750
But part of the reason why we're,

2480
01:19:38,583 --> 01:19:39,416
we've gone from single

2481
01:19:39,416 --> 01:19:40,916
digits cage free to mid forties

2482
01:19:40,916 --> 01:19:42,375
for both cage free

2483
01:19:42,375 --> 01:19:43,625
eggs and crate free pork

2484
01:19:44,083 --> 01:19:44,916
is because corrective

2485
01:19:44,916 --> 01:19:46,333
measures are being made now.

2486
01:19:47,375 --> 01:19:49,916
And I promise you that McDonald's

2487
01:19:49,916 --> 01:19:51,583
is a very much capitalistic company.

2488
01:19:52,166 --> 01:19:52,958
And that's just one.

2489
01:19:54,000 --> 01:19:55,458
So same with their competitors

2490
01:19:55,750 --> 01:19:57,583
and the other food sector giants

2491
01:19:57,833 --> 01:19:59,375
that have shifted in a better direction.

2492
01:19:59,791 --> 01:20:00,458
They're still capitalists.

2493
01:20:01,416 --> 01:20:03,375
They are making a capitalistic decision

2494
01:20:04,791 --> 01:20:05,875
that it is better for the

2495
01:20:05,875 --> 01:20:07,083
company and shareholders

2496
01:20:07,750 --> 01:20:08,500
to improve the

2497
01:20:08,500 --> 01:20:09,541
practices that are going on

2498
01:20:09,541 --> 01:20:10,291
in their supply chain.

2499
01:20:11,125 --> 01:20:12,375
So that's all part of capitalism.

2500
01:20:15,375 --> 01:20:15,958
Fair points.

2501
01:20:16,416 --> 01:20:16,833
Fair points.

2502
01:20:17,291 --> 01:20:18,541
I'm curious with the

2503
01:20:18,541 --> 01:20:19,833
accountability board,

2504
01:20:19,833 --> 01:20:21,750
how is the scaling of the impact going

2505
01:20:21,750 --> 01:20:23,541
only a few years in?

2506
01:20:23,541 --> 01:20:25,250
And what does the trajectory look like?

2507
01:20:25,250 --> 01:20:26,041
I think that's like a,

2508
01:20:26,041 --> 01:20:26,583
I think it's a

2509
01:20:26,583 --> 01:20:28,166
fascinating way to make an impact

2510
01:20:28,875 --> 01:20:30,583
by taking stakes in these companies.

2511
01:20:31,083 --> 01:20:31,791
How, what's like,

2512
01:20:31,791 --> 01:20:32,750
what's the future look like?

2513
01:20:32,833 --> 01:20:34,333
And how global is it going to be?

2514
01:20:34,500 --> 01:20:35,333
Because it seems more

2515
01:20:35,333 --> 01:20:36,458
promising than legislation.

2516
01:20:38,166 --> 01:20:40,875
I think you're spot on is that it's,

2517
01:20:41,541 --> 01:20:43,125
it's very hard to pass laws.

2518
01:20:44,291 --> 01:20:46,000
And there are just so

2519
01:20:46,000 --> 01:20:47,500
many companies out there

2520
01:20:48,000 --> 01:20:48,750
that are global.

2521
01:20:49,625 --> 01:20:51,291
That if one company, maybe

2522
01:20:51,291 --> 01:20:52,166
based in the United States,

2523
01:20:52,333 --> 01:20:53,541
has a global commitment

2524
01:20:53,541 --> 01:20:55,541
to take action for animals,

2525
01:20:55,541 --> 01:20:56,583
all of a sudden you're

2526
01:20:56,583 --> 01:20:57,708
getting animals out of Cajids

2527
01:20:58,333 --> 01:21:00,458
in Eastern Europe and in Asia

2528
01:21:01,083 --> 01:21:02,625
and in Africa and South America.

2529
01:21:03,208 --> 01:21:04,500
Because a company, maybe

2530
01:21:04,500 --> 01:21:05,541
head court in the United States

2531
01:21:05,750 --> 01:21:06,625
will make a global

2532
01:21:06,625 --> 01:21:08,708
policy to go cage free.

2533
01:21:09,250 --> 01:21:10,250
So maybe we're not going

2534
01:21:10,250 --> 01:21:11,250
to pass a cage free law

2535
01:21:11,250 --> 01:21:12,375
in China anytime soon.

2536
01:21:13,166 --> 01:21:14,000
But if these fast food

2537
01:21:14,000 --> 01:21:15,416
chains tell their suppliers,

2538
01:21:15,708 --> 01:21:17,125
listen, we're switching cage frags.

2539
01:21:17,625 --> 01:21:17,958
Guess what?

2540
01:21:17,958 --> 01:21:18,791
Those chickens get out of

2541
01:21:18,791 --> 01:21:21,250
cages in China without a law.

2542
01:21:21,583 --> 01:21:23,041
So you're exactly right is

2543
01:21:23,041 --> 01:21:25,375
that it is more efficient,

2544
01:21:25,583 --> 01:21:26,583
at least right now,

2545
01:21:27,541 --> 01:21:29,000
to work on these

2546
01:21:29,000 --> 01:21:30,208
policies, the United States,

2547
01:21:30,208 --> 01:21:32,708
and globally with corporations than it is

2548
01:21:32,708 --> 01:21:33,583
to pass these laws.

2549
01:21:33,583 --> 01:21:34,333
I still think the laws

2550
01:21:34,333 --> 01:21:36,916
should be worked on in past.

2551
01:21:37,333 --> 01:21:37,916
It just has to be

2552
01:21:37,916 --> 01:21:38,916
more efficient right now

2553
01:21:38,916 --> 01:21:39,750
to work with these companies.

2554
01:21:40,375 --> 01:21:41,291
So what I would say is

2555
01:21:41,291 --> 01:21:43,875
that what we're trying to do

2556
01:21:43,875 --> 01:21:46,208
is short term, trying to get these

2557
01:21:46,208 --> 01:21:46,833
animals out of cages

2558
01:21:46,833 --> 01:21:47,958
and crates United States.

2559
01:21:48,791 --> 01:21:49,458
The next step we're

2560
01:21:49,458 --> 01:21:51,250
taking is that these companies

2561
01:21:51,375 --> 01:21:52,916
typically have global policies,

2562
01:21:53,500 --> 01:21:54,666
but they haven't moved globally.

2563
01:21:55,708 --> 01:21:56,625
It's hard enough sometimes

2564
01:21:56,625 --> 01:21:57,708
for them to even take steps

2565
01:21:57,708 --> 01:21:58,333
to follow through with the

2566
01:21:58,333 --> 01:21:59,291
commitment of the United States.

2567
01:21:59,958 --> 01:22:01,166
When they pledge to do

2568
01:22:01,166 --> 01:22:02,375
actions on a global scale,

2569
01:22:03,125 --> 01:22:04,041
they push back even

2570
01:22:04,041 --> 01:22:05,833
harder about following through

2571
01:22:06,083 --> 01:22:08,041
what they promised to begin with.

2572
01:22:08,833 --> 01:22:10,166
So much of our effort

2573
01:22:10,166 --> 01:22:11,458
will be focused on ensuring

2574
01:22:11,458 --> 01:22:12,333
that their global

2575
01:22:12,333 --> 01:22:14,541
commitments are fulfilled.

2576
01:22:15,041 --> 01:22:15,625
I mean, if you look at

2577
01:22:15,625 --> 01:22:17,250
all the top food companies

2578
01:22:17,250 --> 01:22:17,916
in the United States,

2579
01:22:18,541 --> 01:22:19,833
the fast food chains,

2580
01:22:20,041 --> 01:22:20,625
the consumer passion

2581
01:22:20,625 --> 01:22:21,583
companies, all of them,

2582
01:22:21,708 --> 01:22:22,708
they all have global footprints.

2583
01:22:24,000 --> 01:22:26,416
So a big focus is to make sure that

2584
01:22:26,416 --> 01:22:26,958
they're fall through

2585
01:22:27,000 --> 01:22:28,583
outside the US and we can get animals

2586
01:22:29,041 --> 01:22:30,916
by the tens of millions and overall

2587
01:22:30,916 --> 01:22:31,750
hundreds of millions

2588
01:22:31,750 --> 01:22:33,625
out of cages in places around the world

2589
01:22:33,625 --> 01:22:34,750
where we're not gonna pass laws,

2590
01:22:34,750 --> 01:22:35,750
certainly not in the near term.

2591
01:22:36,416 --> 01:22:37,500
How does the auditing of

2592
01:22:37,500 --> 01:22:38,500
these cage-free commitments

2593
01:22:38,500 --> 01:22:39,458
and other animal

2594
01:22:39,458 --> 01:22:40,666
treatment commitments look like?

2595
01:22:40,875 --> 01:22:41,666
And what are like the

2596
01:22:41,666 --> 01:22:44,000
metrics that you really look at

2597
01:22:44,000 --> 01:22:45,375
and like look at compliance?

2598
01:22:47,583 --> 01:22:49,000
Yeah, that's an important question.

2599
01:22:50,833 --> 01:22:52,083
We do not accept

2600
01:22:52,083 --> 01:22:54,583
agreements where a company

2601
01:22:54,708 --> 01:22:56,125
would just simply put

2602
01:22:56,125 --> 01:22:57,375
something on a website and say,

2603
01:22:57,375 --> 01:22:58,291
okay, great, we're good.

2604
01:22:58,291 --> 01:22:59,208
We just put it on a website.

2605
01:22:59,791 --> 01:23:00,208
Green washer.

2606
01:23:01,625 --> 01:23:02,708
Green washing, absolutely.

2607
01:23:03,083 --> 01:23:03,625
And the only thing they

2608
01:23:03,625 --> 01:23:04,833
can do is just delete it

2609
01:23:04,833 --> 01:23:05,916
from their website next week.

2610
01:23:06,708 --> 01:23:07,833
There's no law that says

2611
01:23:07,833 --> 01:23:08,791
they can't delete something

2612
01:23:08,791 --> 01:23:09,416
from a website.

2613
01:23:10,166 --> 01:23:11,750
And that's what we've seen companies do,

2614
01:23:11,958 --> 01:23:15,000
is have policies that they have had

2615
01:23:15,000 --> 01:23:16,291
on their website for years.

2616
01:23:17,375 --> 01:23:18,500
And then when we ask

2617
01:23:18,500 --> 01:23:19,583
them, how's that going?

2618
01:23:20,791 --> 01:23:23,541
They look, oh, wait a second, it's gone.

2619
01:23:23,875 --> 01:23:24,625
Exactly right, you

2620
01:23:24,625 --> 01:23:25,833
nailed it, you nailed it.

2621
01:23:26,250 --> 01:23:29,625
So what we push the

2622
01:23:29,625 --> 01:23:33,458
company to do is for them to put

2623
01:23:33,458 --> 01:23:34,625
in places where they

2624
01:23:34,625 --> 01:23:35,791
can't just delete it.

2625
01:23:35,791 --> 01:23:36,416
We're talking about

2626
01:23:36,416 --> 01:23:37,416
reports to shareholders.

2627
01:23:38,750 --> 01:23:40,375
We're talking about updates

2628
01:23:40,375 --> 01:23:42,875
from the board of directors.

2629
01:23:43,375 --> 01:23:44,375
We're talking about other

2630
01:23:44,375 --> 01:23:46,583
places where it's not a quick,

2631
01:23:47,000 --> 01:23:49,250
hey, delete a sentence from a website.

2632
01:23:49,666 --> 01:23:51,583
It's more serious in terms

2633
01:23:51,583 --> 01:23:55,208
of trying to revert backwards.

2634
01:23:55,750 --> 01:23:56,333
A lot of these companies

2635
01:23:56,333 --> 01:23:57,666
we even have contracts with

2636
01:23:57,916 --> 01:23:58,666
in terms of following

2637
01:23:58,666 --> 01:24:00,500
through with these policies.

2638
01:24:01,333 --> 01:24:03,500
And so it was a mistake I made before.

2639
01:24:03,875 --> 01:24:05,708
We talked about looking back and some,

2640
01:24:06,458 --> 01:24:07,791
I'd said about mistakes I made.

2641
01:24:08,583 --> 01:24:10,833
I just thought companies could be trusted

2642
01:24:11,041 --> 01:24:12,458
that they put something on their website.

2643
01:24:12,458 --> 01:24:13,625
I'm like, okay, great, it's done.

2644
01:24:14,166 --> 01:24:15,250
Look at how valuable I was.

2645
01:24:15,708 --> 01:24:16,458
What an idiot I was.

2646
01:24:17,125 --> 01:24:18,208
I know, I wish you and I

2647
01:24:18,208 --> 01:24:19,416
talked all those years ago,

2648
01:24:19,416 --> 01:24:20,083
you'd be like, Josh, come

2649
01:24:20,083 --> 01:24:21,541
on, don't be so comfortable.

2650
01:24:21,541 --> 01:24:22,750
Josh, don't fall for it, come on.

2651
01:24:22,750 --> 01:24:23,333
Don't fall through it.

2652
01:24:23,333 --> 01:24:23,916
That's what you're telling

2653
01:24:23,916 --> 01:24:24,708
me, don't fall through it.

2654
01:24:24,708 --> 01:24:26,166
Why I did, I fell through it.

2655
01:24:26,583 --> 01:24:28,250
So that's what

2656
01:24:28,250 --> 01:24:29,416
happened all those years ago.

2657
01:24:29,416 --> 01:24:32,583
Most of these food companies had my name

2658
01:24:32,583 --> 01:24:33,083
in their pressure

2659
01:24:33,083 --> 01:24:34,333
leases or a colleague's name

2660
01:24:34,333 --> 01:24:36,333
in their pressure leases when they made

2661
01:24:36,333 --> 01:24:37,250
their original commitments.

2662
01:24:38,000 --> 01:24:39,250
And then years later when

2663
01:24:39,250 --> 01:24:41,458
following up, where are you at?

2664
01:24:41,458 --> 01:24:42,250
They've done nothing.

2665
01:24:43,041 --> 01:24:44,833
And then a lot of time they get deleted.

2666
01:24:45,333 --> 01:24:46,166
So now I'm working with

2667
01:24:46,166 --> 01:24:47,625
them like, hey, company,

2668
01:24:48,708 --> 01:24:50,416
here's the link of your press release.

2669
01:24:50,833 --> 01:24:53,041
Here's my name in it, where I was in it.

2670
01:24:53,416 --> 01:24:54,666
This is so long ago.

2671
01:24:55,041 --> 01:24:56,291
I trusted you to do this.

2672
01:24:56,750 --> 01:24:58,333
You all didn't fall through.

2673
01:24:58,333 --> 01:25:00,250
And so we're gonna move forward via

2674
01:25:00,250 --> 01:25:01,375
shareholder channels

2675
01:25:01,583 --> 01:25:02,958
to hold you accountable.

2676
01:25:03,416 --> 01:25:04,375
But our preference of course

2677
01:25:04,375 --> 01:25:05,791
is to find some ground here

2678
01:25:05,791 --> 01:25:07,041
where you actually fall through

2679
01:25:07,458 --> 01:25:08,125
with the very commitment

2680
01:25:08,125 --> 01:25:09,166
that you promised you do.

2681
01:25:10,666 --> 01:25:11,333
So how does that look

2682
01:25:11,333 --> 01:25:12,333
like in the nuts and bolts?

2683
01:25:12,625 --> 01:25:15,083
To get a little one level deeper,

2684
01:25:15,333 --> 01:25:17,375
like how do you measure

2685
01:25:17,375 --> 01:25:19,000
compliance and audit compliance?

2686
01:25:19,208 --> 01:25:20,083
Do you have like your,

2687
01:25:20,458 --> 01:25:21,583
do you audit from someone

2688
01:25:21,750 --> 01:25:22,791
internally that you have

2689
01:25:22,791 --> 01:25:24,000
or an external company?

2690
01:25:24,000 --> 01:25:25,250
Do you require some kind of proof?

2691
01:25:25,500 --> 01:25:26,375
Like what does it look

2692
01:25:26,375 --> 01:25:27,833
like in terms of actually

2693
01:25:27,833 --> 01:25:29,666
like ensuring that the outcome,

2694
01:25:30,000 --> 01:25:31,375
the real world outcome is happening?

2695
01:25:32,916 --> 01:25:33,125
Absolutely.

2696
01:25:33,958 --> 01:25:37,083
What happens is that we

2697
01:25:37,083 --> 01:25:38,500
only accepted these companies

2698
01:25:39,625 --> 01:25:40,416
put their new

2699
01:25:40,416 --> 01:25:41,791
commitment or their new promise,

2700
01:25:42,041 --> 01:25:43,625
whatever it may be,

2701
01:25:44,208 --> 01:25:46,875
somewhere where it matters much more to

2702
01:25:48,166 --> 01:25:49,625
reflection of shareholders.

2703
01:25:50,083 --> 01:25:52,708
So there's a serious nature behind it.

2704
01:25:53,125 --> 01:25:54,625
Like their ESG report,

2705
01:25:54,625 --> 01:25:55,625
sustainability report,

2706
01:25:56,125 --> 01:25:58,000
annual report, some type of report

2707
01:25:58,000 --> 01:25:59,000
that goes to shareholders.

2708
01:25:59,791 --> 01:26:02,458
Then in terms of keeping the progress,

2709
01:26:03,041 --> 01:26:03,791
part of the agreement

2710
01:26:03,791 --> 01:26:04,833
is they have to provide

2711
01:26:04,916 --> 01:26:06,375
annual updates in that report.

2712
01:26:07,750 --> 01:26:08,708
And so these are

2713
01:26:08,708 --> 01:26:10,166
reports where they legally

2714
01:26:10,458 --> 01:26:11,500
can't lie to shareholders.

2715
01:26:12,375 --> 01:26:13,833
Websites, companies can put stuff on

2716
01:26:13,833 --> 01:26:14,708
websites all the time.

2717
01:26:15,041 --> 01:26:16,500
Best tasting burger in the world.

2718
01:26:17,125 --> 01:26:19,375
You know, come on, it's fine.

2719
01:26:20,291 --> 01:26:21,375
But in reports to

2720
01:26:21,375 --> 01:26:23,250
shareholders, no, no, no,

2721
01:26:23,416 --> 01:26:24,958
you can't just lie to shareholders.

2722
01:26:25,458 --> 01:26:26,166
You get in serious

2723
01:26:26,166 --> 01:26:27,166
trouble for your company.

2724
01:26:27,916 --> 01:26:29,958
So for these companies, it's,

2725
01:26:30,416 --> 01:26:31,083
you have to put your

2726
01:26:31,083 --> 01:26:32,791
commitments in some type of report

2727
01:26:32,791 --> 01:26:33,416
that goes to these

2728
01:26:33,416 --> 01:26:36,875
shareholders and annual updates.

2729
01:26:37,416 --> 01:26:38,166
So it sounded like, oh

2730
01:26:38,166 --> 01:26:39,708
great, you did that, wonderful.

2731
01:26:39,958 --> 01:26:40,875
So we're never going to check back in.

2732
01:26:40,875 --> 01:26:41,875
No, no, no, annually you're

2733
01:26:41,875 --> 01:26:42,833
going to update shareholders

2734
01:26:43,083 --> 01:26:45,541
in those reports where you're at.

2735
01:26:46,625 --> 01:26:48,291
So that's how we ensure that companies

2736
01:26:48,291 --> 01:26:49,500
are actually moving forward.

2737
01:26:50,625 --> 01:26:52,000
And in the United States and

2738
01:26:52,000 --> 01:26:53,083
in many parts of the world,

2739
01:26:54,625 --> 01:26:56,750
products like eggs are come from third

2740
01:26:56,750 --> 01:26:57,916
party audited systems.

2741
01:26:58,458 --> 01:26:59,833
So in the US, virtually

2742
01:26:59,833 --> 01:27:01,125
every single cage frag

2743
01:27:01,375 --> 01:27:02,875
comes from an operation that has been

2744
01:27:02,875 --> 01:27:03,833
third party audited.

2745
01:27:04,416 --> 01:27:05,541
And so there's also

2746
01:27:05,541 --> 01:27:07,833
that ground auditing too.

2747
01:27:08,916 --> 01:27:09,750
So those are the

2748
01:27:09,750 --> 01:27:12,500
reasons why I feel comfortable

2749
01:27:12,625 --> 01:27:14,083
once a company makes a commitment

2750
01:27:14,750 --> 01:27:15,500
and provides annual

2751
01:27:15,500 --> 01:27:17,416
updates in these reports

2752
01:27:17,416 --> 01:27:18,416
to shareholders that

2753
01:27:18,416 --> 01:27:19,291
movement is happening.

2754
01:27:19,833 --> 01:27:20,375
That's why.

2755
01:27:20,625 --> 01:27:22,958
Before that, a static

2756
01:27:22,958 --> 01:27:24,083
statement on a website

2757
01:27:24,083 --> 01:27:24,750
that says we're going to

2758
01:27:24,750 --> 01:27:25,750
be cage free in 10 years.

2759
01:27:25,750 --> 01:27:27,208
That never changes one second ever.

2760
01:27:27,375 --> 01:27:28,250
And then it turns out they've done

2761
01:27:28,250 --> 01:27:29,291
nothing to follow through.

2762
01:27:29,791 --> 01:27:31,916
That's the type of stuff I look out for.

2763
01:27:32,916 --> 01:27:34,875
So what is the scaling of the

2764
01:27:34,875 --> 01:27:35,708
accountability board

2765
01:27:35,708 --> 01:27:37,250
look like the next five years or so?

2766
01:27:38,791 --> 01:27:40,541
So we have a good team.

2767
01:27:41,000 --> 01:27:43,500
It's not very large

2768
01:27:43,500 --> 01:27:46,250
compared to other organizations

2769
01:27:46,250 --> 01:27:48,833
that might have 300, 400 people.

2770
01:27:49,375 --> 01:27:50,208
At the same time, we

2771
01:27:50,208 --> 01:27:52,541
work with serious law firms

2772
01:27:53,166 --> 01:27:54,958
in many countries around the world.

2773
01:27:55,666 --> 01:27:56,875
We have experts on

2774
01:27:56,875 --> 01:27:59,958
our team that understand

2775
01:28:00,583 --> 01:28:04,291
the most effective and legally proper way

2776
01:28:04,375 --> 01:28:05,833
to write shareholder proposals

2777
01:28:07,000 --> 01:28:08,333
that are expert

2778
01:28:08,333 --> 01:28:10,000
negotiators with companies

2779
01:28:10,625 --> 01:28:12,583
that understand how

2780
01:28:12,583 --> 01:28:16,041
to do work with the SEC

2781
01:28:16,625 --> 01:28:19,791
that oversees shareholder advocacy.

2782
01:28:20,041 --> 01:28:20,833
That's the Securities

2783
01:28:20,833 --> 01:28:21,666
and Exchange Commission.

2784
01:28:22,833 --> 01:28:25,416
And so fortunately this work doesn't

2785
01:28:25,416 --> 01:28:27,375
require too many people.

2786
01:28:27,875 --> 01:28:29,875
We don't have really a

2787
01:28:29,875 --> 01:28:32,083
bureaucracy here, which I enjoy.

2788
01:28:32,500 --> 01:28:33,041
That's great.

2789
01:28:33,458 --> 01:28:34,541
Yeah, very much. Bureaucracy is terrible.

2790
01:28:35,333 --> 01:28:35,791
There you go.

2791
01:28:36,166 --> 01:28:37,791
You know it, you know it.

2792
01:28:38,416 --> 01:28:40,333
At the same time, we're

2793
01:28:40,333 --> 01:28:41,833
making quite an impact

2794
01:28:42,333 --> 01:28:43,583
with the type of force that we have.

2795
01:28:45,833 --> 01:28:48,000
On your deathbed, what

2796
01:28:48,000 --> 01:28:48,958
would you like to see

2797
01:28:49,333 --> 01:28:50,958
have that you've accomplished?

2798
01:28:54,666 --> 01:28:56,541
You know, I don't have,

2799
01:28:57,375 --> 01:28:59,125
you're starting to ask longer term goal.

2800
01:28:59,125 --> 01:28:59,875
And I say longer term

2801
01:28:59,875 --> 01:29:01,333
because I hope it's a while.

2802
01:29:02,458 --> 01:29:03,416
So we'll see. Yeah, me too.

2803
01:29:03,791 --> 01:29:04,958
We'll see how it goes.

2804
01:29:05,250 --> 01:29:06,166
Yeah, we'll see how it goes.

2805
01:29:07,666 --> 01:29:09,333
I just want people to know I fought.

2806
01:29:10,208 --> 01:29:10,708
I fought.

2807
01:29:11,833 --> 01:29:14,875
And we'll see what happens from there.

2808
01:29:15,875 --> 01:29:17,958
Maybe like a specific more ambitious goal

2809
01:29:17,958 --> 01:29:19,291
will help you push you further

2810
01:29:19,291 --> 01:29:20,541
than you otherwise would have.

2811
01:29:20,916 --> 01:29:22,958
I mean, personally I don't believe in

2812
01:29:22,958 --> 01:29:23,916
participation trophies.

2813
01:29:24,291 --> 01:29:26,125
Is there a finish line you have in mind?

2814
01:29:27,083 --> 01:29:28,541
I don't, trust me.

2815
01:29:29,291 --> 01:29:30,541
Amen, amen to that.

2816
01:29:31,625 --> 01:29:33,166
I would say short term, but this is,

2817
01:29:33,250 --> 01:29:35,083
hopefully I continue to live after this.

2818
01:29:36,250 --> 01:29:37,208
I do want to get all

2819
01:29:37,208 --> 01:29:38,083
these animals out of cages.

2820
01:29:39,166 --> 01:29:40,916
And we're talking about 320

2821
01:29:40,916 --> 01:29:43,083
million in the United States.

2822
01:29:43,500 --> 01:29:44,083
We're talking about

2823
01:29:44,083 --> 01:29:46,125
several billion around the world.

2824
01:29:47,166 --> 01:29:48,125
So we're talking about

2825
01:29:48,125 --> 01:29:50,125
massive number of animals.

2826
01:29:51,416 --> 01:29:52,166
And if that's the only

2827
01:29:52,166 --> 01:29:54,291
thing that I do on earth

2828
01:29:54,458 --> 01:29:57,958
and maybe the company that I co-founded

2829
01:29:57,958 --> 01:29:59,291
is pretty successful at

2830
01:29:59,291 --> 01:30:01,416
helping people more humanely

2831
01:30:01,458 --> 01:30:03,500
than it'll be a good life.

2832
01:30:04,250 --> 01:30:06,458
Yeah, that sounds pretty impactful to me.

2833
01:30:07,708 --> 01:30:08,666
What advice would you

2834
01:30:08,666 --> 01:30:09,791
give aspiring entrepreneurs

2835
01:30:09,958 --> 01:30:11,625
looking to attack social issues?

2836
01:30:11,625 --> 01:30:13,208
Maybe not in the domain

2837
01:30:13,208 --> 01:30:14,208
of like animal treatment,

2838
01:30:14,208 --> 01:30:15,291
but in other domains.

2839
01:30:16,083 --> 01:30:16,791
I imagine it's much

2840
01:30:16,791 --> 01:30:17,791
harder to raise capital.

2841
01:30:18,125 --> 01:30:19,458
I imagine like the infrastructure

2842
01:30:19,458 --> 01:30:20,791
isn't quite there for it.

2843
01:30:21,333 --> 01:30:22,208
Like there are some things

2844
01:30:22,208 --> 01:30:23,250
that perhaps don't always align

2845
01:30:23,708 --> 01:30:24,916
with like market incentives.

2846
01:30:25,666 --> 01:30:26,833
How, what suggestions

2847
01:30:26,833 --> 01:30:28,166
or advice would you give

2848
01:30:28,541 --> 01:30:30,000
an entrepreneur starting out today?

2849
01:30:31,458 --> 01:30:33,416
Yes, one of the

2850
01:30:33,416 --> 01:30:35,000
reasons why I think Each Us

2851
01:30:35,000 --> 01:30:36,208
has been successful is

2852
01:30:36,208 --> 01:30:37,708
that it created a product

2853
01:30:38,333 --> 01:30:41,000
that it just made sense that it existed

2854
01:30:41,250 --> 01:30:42,625
that just did not exist yet.

2855
01:30:44,541 --> 01:30:48,625
And it makes total sense,

2856
01:30:49,250 --> 01:30:50,458
even egg producers work

2857
01:30:50,458 --> 01:30:51,708
with the company by the way,

2858
01:30:51,958 --> 01:30:53,041
that there at least should be a

2859
01:30:53,041 --> 01:30:54,041
plant-based offering

2860
01:30:54,916 --> 01:30:55,666
in the egg section,

2861
01:30:56,250 --> 01:30:57,916
just like there is in the milk section

2862
01:30:57,916 --> 01:30:58,625
and the meat section.

2863
01:30:59,500 --> 01:31:00,833
And just knowing that

2864
01:31:00,833 --> 01:31:03,708
is so much of the battle

2865
01:31:04,041 --> 01:31:06,000
is knowing that it just makes sense.

2866
01:31:06,875 --> 01:31:07,750
You know, there's so much

2867
01:31:07,750 --> 01:31:09,750
that goes into startup work

2868
01:31:09,958 --> 01:31:11,000
that is so challenging.

2869
01:31:11,333 --> 01:31:12,500
And I give so much credit to

2870
01:31:12,500 --> 01:31:13,666
anybody who does a startup.

2871
01:31:16,083 --> 01:31:17,500
What I think is this

2872
01:31:17,500 --> 01:31:18,708
the first place to start

2873
01:31:18,958 --> 01:31:21,375
is as soon as you say the idea,

2874
01:31:21,791 --> 01:31:23,041
hopefully most people

2875
01:31:23,041 --> 01:31:24,291
think, you know what,

2876
01:31:24,291 --> 01:31:25,458
wait, that doesn't exist.

2877
01:31:26,000 --> 01:31:27,375
Huh, that should exist.

2878
01:31:28,333 --> 01:31:29,750
That's a good place to start.

2879
01:31:31,333 --> 01:31:33,041
And outside the animal world,

2880
01:31:33,041 --> 01:31:33,750
I don't know all

2881
01:31:33,750 --> 01:31:36,041
that, what that would be.

2882
01:31:36,625 --> 01:31:37,791
What I can tell you

2883
01:31:37,791 --> 01:31:41,916
is that having options

2884
01:31:42,208 --> 01:31:45,041
for major egg product users for their

2885
01:31:45,041 --> 01:31:46,250
cookies and baked goods

2886
01:31:46,541 --> 01:31:48,541
for them to have an option to use

2887
01:31:48,541 --> 01:31:49,958
plant-based ingredients,

2888
01:31:50,875 --> 01:31:52,916
that just makes sense as an option.

2889
01:31:53,791 --> 01:31:54,666
And the other products,

2890
01:31:54,666 --> 01:31:56,125
having a plant-based chicken

2891
01:31:56,833 --> 01:31:58,458
that actually tastes just like chicken,

2892
01:31:58,458 --> 01:32:00,958
that just makes sense to do.

2893
01:32:00,958 --> 01:32:02,458
Whether it's to be successful, who knows?

2894
01:32:03,000 --> 01:32:03,458
Who knows?

2895
01:32:03,958 --> 01:32:06,375
But at least it makes a lot of sense.

2896
01:32:06,375 --> 01:32:07,750
So that's the first place I would start.

2897
01:32:08,291 --> 01:32:09,750
Next place I would start

2898
01:32:09,750 --> 01:32:12,541
is there's literally nothing

2899
01:32:12,791 --> 01:32:16,208
that I have done, Daniel, that I

2900
01:32:16,208 --> 01:32:17,500
accomplished by myself.

2901
01:32:18,583 --> 01:32:19,291
Literally zero.

2902
01:32:20,375 --> 01:32:22,250
And part of founding a

2903
01:32:22,250 --> 01:32:24,375
company or taking a leap

2904
01:32:25,291 --> 01:32:26,750
and doing something pretty special

2905
01:32:27,333 --> 01:32:29,375
is finding someone or

2906
01:32:29,375 --> 01:32:30,333
a team to do it with

2907
01:32:30,708 --> 01:32:32,041
that you're ready to go into battle with.

2908
01:32:32,625 --> 01:32:33,625
I can tell you the things

2909
01:32:33,625 --> 01:32:35,458
I'm most proud of in life.

2910
01:32:35,958 --> 01:32:39,000
It's California Prop 12, ballot measure.

2911
01:32:39,916 --> 01:32:41,166
I also spent about a year

2912
01:32:41,166 --> 01:32:43,291
of my life on or eat just,

2913
01:32:43,583 --> 01:32:44,208
or the work of the

2914
01:32:44,208 --> 01:32:46,208
accountability board that I'm doing now,

2915
01:32:47,083 --> 01:32:49,541
zero of that I could have done by myself.

2916
01:32:50,125 --> 01:32:52,666
I were so lucky to have

2917
01:32:52,666 --> 01:32:54,916
dear friends work together

2918
01:32:55,666 --> 01:32:57,333
with me and I work with

2919
01:32:57,333 --> 01:32:58,958
them to accomplish this.

2920
01:32:59,250 --> 01:33:00,625
So if you're looking to found something,

2921
01:33:01,291 --> 01:33:02,208
find a couple of folks

2922
01:33:02,208 --> 01:33:03,083
that want to go in with you

2923
01:33:03,083 --> 01:33:03,625
because you don't want

2924
01:33:03,625 --> 01:33:04,541
to do this by yourself.

2925
01:33:04,750 --> 01:33:05,708
Try not to be successful,

2926
01:33:05,708 --> 01:33:06,458
it's gonna be really lonely.

2927
01:33:06,875 --> 01:33:08,041
Go in with someone else too.

2928
01:33:09,291 --> 01:33:10,583
I imagine the kind of

2929
01:33:10,583 --> 01:33:12,625
individuals that have joined you

2930
01:33:13,000 --> 01:33:14,208
in the journey are much

2931
01:33:14,208 --> 01:33:16,291
more missionary minded

2932
01:33:16,291 --> 01:33:17,833
rather than mercenary minded.

2933
01:33:18,708 --> 01:33:19,125
Is that right?

2934
01:33:20,250 --> 01:33:24,875
Well, you can be

2935
01:33:24,875 --> 01:33:26,125
missionary and mercenary.

2936
01:33:27,250 --> 01:33:30,625
You can be missionary as in, hey, I'll do

2937
01:33:30,625 --> 01:33:31,666
this for a solid year.

2938
01:33:31,666 --> 01:33:32,666
I'm going all out because I

2939
01:33:32,666 --> 01:33:34,416
believe in this after a year.

2940
01:33:34,958 --> 01:33:36,083
I'm gonna move on to something else.

2941
01:33:36,416 --> 01:33:37,166
I guess that makes sense.

2942
01:33:37,458 --> 01:33:38,750
You can pursue

2943
01:33:38,750 --> 01:33:40,208
something you deeply believe in

2944
01:33:40,208 --> 01:33:41,750
and still be exchanged fairly.

2945
01:33:41,916 --> 01:33:43,083
I guess that's not, the

2946
01:33:43,083 --> 01:33:44,166
premise is not quite right.

2947
01:33:44,250 --> 01:33:45,083
I get your point though.

2948
01:33:45,083 --> 01:33:45,583
I just, I got your point.

2949
01:33:45,583 --> 01:33:46,333
I got your point.

2950
01:33:46,833 --> 01:33:48,833
What you're right is

2951
01:33:48,833 --> 01:33:52,333
that the success that,

2952
01:33:52,625 --> 01:33:54,000
at least it leads to

2953
01:33:54,000 --> 01:33:55,083
what I've been part of.

2954
01:33:55,458 --> 01:33:57,291
Almost all of it had to do with people

2955
01:33:57,458 --> 01:33:58,583
who believed in the mission

2956
01:33:58,583 --> 01:34:00,250
of what we were trying to do.

2957
01:34:00,541 --> 01:34:01,750
And you're right, it wasn't like,

2958
01:34:02,375 --> 01:34:03,541
we really succeeded because

2959
01:34:03,541 --> 01:34:05,166
this outside consulting firm

2960
01:34:05,166 --> 01:34:08,958
did XYZ that never gets the job done.

2961
01:34:10,041 --> 01:34:11,208
It's good to have outside

2962
01:34:11,208 --> 01:34:12,708
firms help on the periphery.

2963
01:34:13,083 --> 01:34:13,666
Absolutely.

2964
01:34:14,125 --> 01:34:16,083
I'm so grateful for so many that have.

2965
01:34:17,041 --> 01:34:18,500
But you're exactly

2966
01:34:18,500 --> 01:34:21,875
right is that, in my view,

2967
01:34:23,000 --> 01:34:24,333
bringing on just true

2968
01:34:24,333 --> 01:34:26,708
believers who are missionaries

2969
01:34:27,250 --> 01:34:28,625
on whatever you're fighting for.

2970
01:34:29,250 --> 01:34:30,375
Believer, if you want to

2971
01:34:30,375 --> 01:34:32,250
start a new type of car business

2972
01:34:32,541 --> 01:34:33,666
or new AI company,

2973
01:34:33,958 --> 01:34:35,166
whatever the mission is,

2974
01:34:36,000 --> 01:34:37,416
I just want people who are

2975
01:34:37,416 --> 01:34:39,583
obsessed and willing to fight

2976
01:34:40,375 --> 01:34:42,875
and have courage and are good people.

2977
01:34:43,875 --> 01:34:45,458
That's a type of folks certainly

2978
01:34:45,458 --> 01:34:46,291
that I would love to

2979
01:34:46,291 --> 01:34:47,583
work side by side with.

2980
01:34:49,875 --> 01:34:51,500
How do you invest in yourself

2981
01:34:51,750 --> 01:34:52,791
to be a better version

2982
01:34:52,791 --> 01:34:53,958
of yourself every day?

2983
01:34:54,416 --> 01:34:56,041
Like to be able to create more impact?

2984
01:34:56,291 --> 01:34:57,375
You have to be like

2985
01:34:57,375 --> 01:34:58,375
refilling your own cup,

2986
01:34:58,750 --> 01:35:00,625
both like energy wise and knowledge wise.

2987
01:35:00,625 --> 01:35:01,875
How does that look like for you?

2988
01:35:03,458 --> 01:35:04,583
I could do a better job.

2989
01:35:06,375 --> 01:35:07,208
Certainly what I'm

2990
01:35:07,208 --> 01:35:08,333
trying to do to be better,

2991
01:35:08,666 --> 01:35:10,458
and I have not gotten there yet,

2992
01:35:10,458 --> 01:35:11,125
and I hope to be

2993
01:35:11,125 --> 01:35:12,291
better, is that I read a lot.

2994
01:35:13,041 --> 01:35:14,125
And I read books that

2995
01:35:14,125 --> 01:35:16,208
hopefully inspire me to do better.

2996
01:35:17,416 --> 01:35:18,791
And I love reading books

2997
01:35:18,791 --> 01:35:20,750
about history and leaders

2998
01:35:21,791 --> 01:35:25,541
and take things away from those people

2999
01:35:25,791 --> 01:35:26,750
and those historic

3000
01:35:26,750 --> 01:35:28,750
situations that can translate

3001
01:35:28,750 --> 01:35:30,541
to my life or what I'm doing.

3002
01:35:31,500 --> 01:35:35,500
So reading is a major component for me of

3003
01:35:35,500 --> 01:35:36,375
trying to be better.

3004
01:35:37,375 --> 01:35:39,833
Also, in terms of

3005
01:35:39,833 --> 01:35:42,166
refilling the cup, so to speak,

3006
01:35:43,208 --> 01:35:43,875
I love football.

3007
01:35:44,583 --> 01:35:45,666
And you know what?

3008
01:35:45,666 --> 01:35:47,083
I gotta tell you, it's

3009
01:35:47,083 --> 01:35:48,875
just enjoyable to sit down,

3010
01:35:49,416 --> 01:35:50,375
watching my Chicago

3011
01:35:50,375 --> 01:35:52,083
Bears who typically lose,

3012
01:35:52,666 --> 01:35:54,333
but just like not checking an email,

3013
01:35:55,458 --> 01:35:57,541
just like not thinking of something out,

3014
01:35:58,083 --> 01:35:59,125
in the serious world,

3015
01:35:59,125 --> 01:36:00,208
but just lose myself

3016
01:36:00,833 --> 01:36:02,166
for like three hours a

3017
01:36:02,166 --> 01:36:03,708
week during football season

3018
01:36:03,708 --> 01:36:04,875
and just enjoy the game.

3019
01:36:05,166 --> 01:36:07,708
You know, that really

3020
01:36:07,708 --> 01:36:09,791
helps, even if they lose,

3021
01:36:10,041 --> 01:36:12,125
which they most likely do,

3022
01:36:12,666 --> 01:36:14,625
almost percentage-wise most of the time,

3023
01:36:15,416 --> 01:36:17,000
it really helps me just

3024
01:36:17,000 --> 01:36:19,208
kind of come back to the work,

3025
01:36:20,083 --> 01:36:21,083
mindfully refreshed.

3026
01:36:22,541 --> 01:36:24,083
What books are you reading right now?

3027
01:36:26,916 --> 01:36:28,833
I just finished a book

3028
01:36:28,833 --> 01:36:30,708
about John F. Kennedy,

3029
01:36:31,416 --> 01:36:35,750
and so much of the book was about the

3030
01:36:35,750 --> 01:36:36,583
Cuban Missile Crisis.

3031
01:36:37,833 --> 01:36:39,500
And what helps me in

3032
01:36:39,500 --> 01:36:40,583
reading these books sometimes

3033
01:36:41,375 --> 01:36:44,208
is putting things in context.

3034
01:36:45,250 --> 01:36:47,000
When I'm thinking I'm having a bad day,

3035
01:36:47,583 --> 01:36:48,375
imagine trying to be

3036
01:36:48,375 --> 01:36:49,833
president during a crisis

3037
01:36:49,833 --> 01:36:51,583
that could literally end the world.

3038
01:36:52,791 --> 01:36:54,958
And there were times

3039
01:36:54,958 --> 01:36:56,833
during the Cuban Missile Crisis

3040
01:36:57,041 --> 01:36:58,958
where folks who may not know,

3041
01:36:59,000 --> 01:37:00,583
but there were nuclear

3042
01:37:00,583 --> 01:37:06,333
missiles in Cuba in the 1960s,

3043
01:37:06,333 --> 01:37:07,541
and President Kennedy

3044
01:37:07,541 --> 01:37:10,041
and Premier Khrushchev

3045
01:37:10,416 --> 01:37:13,041
had to negotiate some type of end to it.

3046
01:37:13,041 --> 01:37:14,458
And if they didn't, that

3047
01:37:14,458 --> 01:37:15,625
would have been it, game over.

3048
01:37:16,666 --> 01:37:18,291
And there were times during the crisis

3049
01:37:18,500 --> 01:37:20,083
where both sides thought it was over,

3050
01:37:20,083 --> 01:37:21,000
the world was going to end.

3051
01:37:22,083 --> 01:37:23,333
And there's even stories

3052
01:37:23,333 --> 01:37:25,041
about a lot of the negotiators

3053
01:37:25,875 --> 01:37:30,375
looking at the sun going down one night

3054
01:37:30,375 --> 01:37:31,791
and thinking that's the last time

3055
01:37:32,000 --> 01:37:33,500
if anyone's gonna see the sun go down.

3056
01:37:34,250 --> 01:37:35,041
Now, here's my point.

3057
01:37:37,583 --> 01:37:39,708
That puts a lot of perspective into,

3058
01:37:40,125 --> 01:37:42,541
what was me, I didn't get a response

3059
01:37:42,541 --> 01:37:44,416
as quickly as I wish I did in an email.

3060
01:37:45,833 --> 01:37:49,291
And that helped center me and put things

3061
01:37:49,291 --> 01:37:50,708
in a lot of perspective.

3062
01:37:51,875 --> 01:37:54,541
And that grounds me

3063
01:37:54,541 --> 01:37:55,916
in a place that I hope,

3064
01:37:56,791 --> 01:37:57,875
I'm pretty consistent

3065
01:37:57,875 --> 01:38:00,083
in my emotional stability

3066
01:38:00,750 --> 01:38:01,791
to handle the ups and

3067
01:38:01,791 --> 01:38:04,166
downs of when things occur.

3068
01:38:04,458 --> 01:38:07,166
So that's how I try to learn.

3069
01:38:07,375 --> 01:38:09,458
And that's a book I just finished.

3070
01:38:10,791 --> 01:38:11,875
That sounds like a great book.

3071
01:38:12,166 --> 01:38:12,750
I may read it.

3072
01:38:12,916 --> 01:38:15,125
I'm personally a history buff myself.

3073
01:38:15,125 --> 01:38:17,041
I love to read history books.

3074
01:38:17,500 --> 01:38:18,458
What are some books

3075
01:38:18,458 --> 01:38:19,750
that you would recommend

3076
01:38:20,500 --> 01:38:22,166
to young aspiring entrepreneurs

3077
01:38:23,333 --> 01:38:24,958
that have been helpful for you?

3078
01:38:24,958 --> 01:38:26,541
They don't have to be like in the startup

3079
01:38:26,541 --> 01:38:27,750
or self-help domain.

3080
01:38:27,750 --> 01:38:29,291
They could be history,

3081
01:38:29,291 --> 01:38:30,666
like leaders that you look to

3082
01:38:31,291 --> 01:38:33,375
as exemplars, anything.

3083
01:38:35,375 --> 01:38:38,000
My favorite book of all time,

3084
01:38:38,500 --> 01:38:39,833
it's "Team of Rivals"

3085
01:38:40,208 --> 01:38:41,333
about Abraham Lincoln.

3086
01:38:42,541 --> 01:38:44,375
And this book is good for

3087
01:38:44,375 --> 01:38:45,375
anyone who's an entrepreneur

3088
01:38:45,750 --> 01:38:46,625
or someone who's involved

3089
01:38:46,625 --> 01:38:47,791
in government or anybody.

3090
01:38:49,208 --> 01:38:50,791
And the reason being is that,

3091
01:38:52,333 --> 01:38:53,375
this is just my opinion,

3092
01:38:53,916 --> 01:38:55,083
Dan, I'll take it for what it's worth,

3093
01:38:55,083 --> 01:38:55,708
but I feel like

3094
01:38:55,708 --> 01:38:57,000
Abraham Lincoln handled a lot

3095
01:38:57,000 --> 01:38:58,583
of tough situations better

3096
01:38:58,583 --> 01:38:59,791
than most of us would have.

3097
01:39:00,541 --> 01:39:03,541
And a lot of it is lessons that could

3098
01:39:03,541 --> 01:39:04,708
translate to anybody.

3099
01:39:04,916 --> 01:39:05,750
I'll give you a couple of

3100
01:39:05,750 --> 01:39:07,416
things of what he did so well.

3101
01:39:08,833 --> 01:39:10,500
Whenever things were

3102
01:39:10,500 --> 01:39:12,125
going well in the Civil War,

3103
01:39:12,125 --> 01:39:13,458
a battle was won or

3104
01:39:13,458 --> 01:39:16,333
something positive occurred,

3105
01:39:17,083 --> 01:39:19,208
he would never take the credit.

3106
01:39:19,750 --> 01:39:20,791
He would always bring

3107
01:39:20,791 --> 01:39:21,708
the credit elsewhere.

3108
01:39:22,083 --> 01:39:22,458
Hey, no, no, no,

3109
01:39:22,458 --> 01:39:23,375
don't come to me on that.

3110
01:39:23,833 --> 01:39:25,458
That was because the general so-and-so,

3111
01:39:25,458 --> 01:39:25,958
go to general

3112
01:39:25,958 --> 01:39:27,958
so-and-so, say good job to him,

3113
01:39:28,500 --> 01:39:30,333
always raised other people up.

3114
01:39:31,041 --> 01:39:33,291
And one, he did that because I believe

3115
01:39:33,875 --> 01:39:35,500
he was likely a very good guy,

3116
01:39:36,208 --> 01:39:39,750
but also smartly,

3117
01:39:40,833 --> 01:39:44,458
it helped continue to propel good actions

3118
01:39:45,291 --> 01:39:47,541
because people were lauded for success.

3119
01:39:48,750 --> 01:39:49,666
And just imagine,

3120
01:39:50,416 --> 01:39:52,416
I think we've probably all been there

3121
01:39:52,875 --> 01:39:54,625
where we did something good in life,

3122
01:39:55,083 --> 01:39:56,875
and then maybe someone above us,

3123
01:39:57,291 --> 01:39:58,000
we kind of felt like,

3124
01:39:58,000 --> 01:39:59,333
wow, they took a lot of credit for that.

3125
01:39:59,875 --> 01:40:00,500
Huh, okay.

3126
01:40:01,416 --> 01:40:03,041
We maybe have been there in life

3127
01:40:03,375 --> 01:40:05,666
versus we've also been there in life

3128
01:40:05,958 --> 01:40:07,500
when there was someone who was maybe

3129
01:40:07,500 --> 01:40:08,583
the head of an organization,

3130
01:40:09,458 --> 01:40:11,333
pointed us out, maybe it

3131
01:40:11,333 --> 01:40:12,416
was at an all staff meeting,

3132
01:40:12,708 --> 01:40:13,541
maybe it was with

3133
01:40:13,541 --> 01:40:14,958
some investors or donors,

3134
01:40:15,208 --> 01:40:16,958
saying, oh hey, Josh,

3135
01:40:17,208 --> 01:40:17,916
Daniel, come over here.

3136
01:40:18,291 --> 01:40:19,833
Hey, investors, the

3137
01:40:19,833 --> 01:40:21,250
reason why this sector

3138
01:40:21,250 --> 01:40:22,458
of our company is doing so well,

3139
01:40:22,458 --> 01:40:22,833
it's because of that

3140
01:40:22,833 --> 01:40:23,666
Daniel guy right there.

3141
01:40:23,875 --> 01:40:25,083
It's him, it's not me.

3142
01:40:25,083 --> 01:40:26,750
He's a total star here, so grab a farm.

3143
01:40:26,875 --> 01:40:28,000
All right, Daniel, go back to work.

3144
01:40:28,000 --> 01:40:28,958
I just wanted them to meet you.

3145
01:40:29,333 --> 01:40:30,541
Like that's the type of stuff

3146
01:40:31,333 --> 01:40:32,833
that people don't forget.

3147
01:40:33,916 --> 01:40:35,708
And I know that when

3148
01:40:35,708 --> 01:40:36,625
people did that for me,

3149
01:40:36,625 --> 01:40:39,458
I never forgot that, never forgot that,

3150
01:40:39,791 --> 01:40:43,666
including growing up playing baseball,

3151
01:40:44,458 --> 01:40:45,541
where someone was

3152
01:40:45,541 --> 01:40:46,833
maybe the star of the game,

3153
01:40:47,208 --> 01:40:47,958
but in interviews

3154
01:40:47,958 --> 01:40:48,875
would say, oh, by the way,

3155
01:40:48,875 --> 01:40:50,166
you should talk to Josh.

3156
01:40:50,541 --> 01:40:51,500
He did XYZ.

3157
01:40:51,833 --> 01:40:53,583
I was always touched by that.

3158
01:40:54,166 --> 01:40:55,041
And that's what Lincoln did

3159
01:40:55,916 --> 01:40:58,250
in some of the most stressful,

3160
01:40:58,500 --> 01:41:00,541
challenging circumstances

3161
01:41:00,833 --> 01:41:01,833
that we could ever imagine,

3162
01:41:02,125 --> 01:41:04,083
where many of us with egos

3163
01:41:04,083 --> 01:41:05,500
would gladly take praise,

3164
01:41:05,500 --> 01:41:06,916
but instead he thoughtfully

3165
01:41:06,916 --> 01:41:09,000
spread the praise to others.

3166
01:41:09,000 --> 01:41:10,416
That's just one of many examples.

3167
01:41:11,541 --> 01:41:13,208
Yeah, recognition is so important

3168
01:41:13,458 --> 01:41:15,500
as a founder or leader of any kind.

3169
01:41:16,500 --> 01:41:17,333
There was this one

3170
01:41:17,333 --> 01:41:19,208
conceptualization that I liked.

3171
01:41:19,208 --> 01:41:20,333
I think it was from good to great.

3172
01:41:20,333 --> 01:41:21,333
It was like the concept of

3173
01:41:21,333 --> 01:41:22,375
the window in the mirror.

3174
01:41:22,916 --> 01:41:23,250
It's like whenever

3175
01:41:23,250 --> 01:41:25,083
things are going wrong,

3176
01:41:25,333 --> 01:41:25,875
look in the mirror,

3177
01:41:26,083 --> 01:41:27,041
only blame yourself when

3178
01:41:27,041 --> 01:41:27,875
things are going right.

3179
01:41:28,708 --> 01:41:30,333
Only look out at the team.

3180
01:41:31,333 --> 01:41:33,958
And I found it to be really impactful.

3181
01:41:34,250 --> 01:41:36,166
And I think it really helped,

3182
01:41:36,166 --> 01:41:36,916
makes a big difference

3183
01:41:36,916 --> 01:41:38,541
in an organization team

3184
01:41:38,541 --> 01:41:39,541
trying to accomplish something.

3185
01:41:40,083 --> 01:41:41,791
If they're all just trying to find ways

3186
01:41:41,791 --> 01:41:42,625
to praise each other,

3187
01:41:42,958 --> 01:41:44,041
it's so much. Oh my gosh.

3188
01:41:44,416 --> 01:41:45,416
It goes so far.

3189
01:41:46,333 --> 01:41:46,791
Absolutely.

3190
01:41:47,208 --> 01:41:48,625
And then the thing is,

3191
01:41:49,083 --> 01:41:51,666
is that because we're

3192
01:41:51,666 --> 01:41:52,666
never going to accomplish

3193
01:41:52,791 --> 01:41:55,125
something extraordinary by ourselves,

3194
01:41:55,875 --> 01:41:57,916
we are going to need others with us.

3195
01:41:58,291 --> 01:42:00,000
And don't we want to create a culture

3196
01:42:00,291 --> 01:42:01,833
where we all lift each other up,

3197
01:42:02,333 --> 01:42:03,583
knowing that's the only way

3198
01:42:03,583 --> 01:42:04,666
we're really going to win.

3199
01:42:05,875 --> 01:42:07,375
So I'm with you on

3200
01:42:07,375 --> 01:42:08,375
Daniel, and that's a great book.

3201
01:42:09,000 --> 01:42:09,541
Good to great.

3202
01:42:09,541 --> 01:42:10,583
That's another good book too.

3203
01:42:12,958 --> 01:42:13,625
I think that might be a

3204
01:42:13,625 --> 01:42:14,750
good place to end things on.

3205
01:42:15,458 --> 01:42:17,583
Recognizing the value of others,

3206
01:42:18,333 --> 01:42:20,083
like the contribution of others,

3207
01:42:20,958 --> 01:42:21,875
the efforts of others.

3208
01:42:22,208 --> 01:42:23,958
I think that's where it all begins.

3209
01:42:24,291 --> 01:42:25,583
Any journey to greatness,

3210
01:42:26,333 --> 01:42:28,000
whether it's animal treatment

3211
01:42:28,333 --> 01:42:29,583
or anything else in the

3212
01:42:29,583 --> 01:42:31,458
world, sustainability.

3213
01:42:33,208 --> 01:42:34,166
Josh, it has been an

3214
01:42:34,166 --> 01:42:35,208
absolute pleasure having you.

3215
01:42:35,416 --> 01:42:36,625
I've learned so much from you today.

3216
01:42:37,166 --> 01:42:37,791
And I'm sure our

3217
01:42:37,791 --> 01:42:39,125
listeners will have learned

3218
01:42:39,333 --> 01:42:40,291
plenty from you as well.

3219
01:42:41,250 --> 01:42:42,583
Any parting words for

3220
01:42:42,583 --> 01:42:43,625
us before we sign off?

3221
01:42:44,375 --> 01:42:45,500
Well, Daniel, I appreciate you.

3222
01:42:45,750 --> 01:42:46,916
Thank you for having me on.

3223
01:42:47,333 --> 01:42:49,125
Looking forward to

3224
01:42:49,125 --> 01:42:50,583
hearing your other guests

3225
01:42:50,583 --> 01:42:52,000
that you have on in the future.

3226
01:42:52,000 --> 01:42:53,291
And really appreciate you

3227
01:42:53,291 --> 01:42:55,541
being such a good person

3228
01:42:55,750 --> 01:42:57,291
to bring these topics and

3229
01:42:57,291 --> 01:42:58,291
these issues to everybody.

3230
01:42:58,541 --> 01:43:01,041
So really just a lot of gratitude to you.

3231
01:43:01,875 --> 01:43:02,416
Thank you, Josh.

3232
01:43:02,708 --> 01:43:03,166
It's been a pleasure.