Note: This transcript was AI-generated and has not been edited for errors.

[Dan Hope]
Welcome into Real Pod Wednesdays. I'm Dan Hope joined by Andy Anders as Ohio State spring football is now complete. The Buckeyes wrapping up their spring slate on Saturday with their spring game 15 practices in the books, 25 more to go before the season opener against Texas, but not until August when preseason camp begins.

So it's going to be about three and a half months before we see the Buckeyes on the field again, still plenty to happen between now and then. Transfer portal opens today, so we'll see if Ohio State makes some moves there. I'm a transfer portal over the next couple of weeks to try to continue filling out its roster for the 2025 season.

Certainly lots more to come on 11warriors.com from Andy and I and everyone else on staff as we continue to look ahead to the 2025 season, you know, maybe some projects looking back at some stuff, you know, whatever else we can come up with to try to make the off seasons interesting. We can, of course, the NFL draft coming up next week. That's going to be a really big week for last year's Ohio State Buckeyes and we'll spend next week's episode talking a lot about that.

Looking ahead to that for this week, we're going to kind of wrap up the spring here and kind of give our post spring assessments on where we think things stand for Ohio State football. And so I'll start with this simple question and have you answer it first, Andy. Coming out of the spring, are you more confident, less confident, or just as confident as you were before in Ohio State's chances of contending for a championship this year as you were before spring started?

[Andy Anders]
Yeah, I'd say more confident, honestly. I think a few of the questions I had on the offensive end in particular were answered. Not like huge questions per se in some areas, but at least some, like the progression of the running backs, the progression of the receivers and the depth, what we saw from Eileen Graham in the spring game was certainly a plus in that area.

And we'll break down more of some of that in a minute. For me, I think it was the offensive line, though, that really like my confidence coming out of the spring in this offensive line room and what Ohio State has there and what they showed in the practices we saw. It's hard to evaluate offensive line play, especially in those practice settings, but also in the spring game.

But as much as you can, they had a really strong performance in that spring game, I thought. And just the options, like we talked about having the concerns about Ohio State's offensive tackle depth. Austin Searaveld seemed to really acclimate well to that tackle position to the point where, you know, I've said it before, he's my favorite to start at right tackle now.

And when the fact that he is that means you have another body there at tackle, be it Ian Moore, be it Philip Daniels backing him up or if Philip Daniels ultimately wins, you can swing Austin Searaveld. It's pretty clear that they're confident in him to do that. He was an iron butt guy and had, you know, we'll talk more about him in a minute.

But it's, for me, the progression of the offensive line and the interior showing up as the strength we thought it might be, is where I draw a little more confidence, I think. Because the defense is kind of what I expected so far. But, you know, for you, Dan, where do you sit on that question?

Where are you in your confidence level?

[Dan Hope]
I would say just as confident. I don't think that spring made me, you know, I didn't come out of spring thinking, oh man, like this is the best team in college football this year. And you know, this team's the team to beat and it's a big change from where I was going into the spring.

But, you know, I also don't think there was anything this spring that, you know, made me hit a panic button that wasn't already there for this Ohio State football team. You know, I think a lot of what we saw this spring was pretty comparable to what I thought we would see this spring. You know, certainly quarterbacks have been in focus a lot.

Was not a perfect spring for Julian Sane or Lincoln Keenles by any means, but there were enough positive signs, particularly in the spring game to finish out spring to where, you know, I already thought going into the spring, you know, there's going to be some growing pains at the quarterback position this year because you're going to have a starter who has never started a college game before. I still think that coming out of spring. So I don't think my assessment there has changed wholeheartedly.

You know, I went into spring thinking, you know, they're going to be, you know, loaded it, you know, receiver tight end. I still think that I think probably running back, probably an area where I am a little bit more confident than I was going into the spring just because, you know, we went into the spring going like this, you know, are they are they going to have that real number one guy? Are they going to have that home run hitter?

And I think we saw enough from both James Peoples and CJ Donaldson to make me think, you know, they have a chance themselves to be one of the best running back teams in the country. And then to see what Bo Jackson did every time we got to see him, you know, I think he's got a chance to to expand that running back rotation and, you know, maybe be a home run hitter that expands that group. And so I think I'm probably more confident where I am and where I was at running back, you know, offensive line.

I agree if you always already fairly optimistic about the offensive line going into the spring. And I'd say I'm still there, like, you know, there's still that right tackle position to be settled. But I think, you know, by and large, I think the offensive line has for the most part looked the way that I thought it would.

You know, I thought, you know, secondary linebackers, they had the talent there to reload. And it seems like they have. And I thought, you know, defensive line was probably the biggest question mark.

And I think that's still the biggest question mark I have for sure coming out of spring. So I think we'll kind of make our predictions for where we see Ohio State at right now at the end of the show. I would say my prediction for Ohio State that I would have had before the spring compared to what I would have it as now has not changed.

We can we can get into some of the specifics of, you know, why Ohio State could be a championship team and some of the specifics as to why Ohio State might not be a championship team. But I think, you know, all in all, when I put it all together and I think about what I think the prognosis is for this team, I don't think it's been changed measurably in one direction or the other by what we saw this spring.

[Andy Anders]
I think that's a fair assessment, you know, and when I say I'm more confident, it is a subtle thing, but, you know, I'm such an offensive line guy and I just really like what we saw out of that position group in the spring. I think that's so integral to the success. But to your point, I still have a lot of concerns along the defensive line for Ohio State and where things stand there.

But sticking with some of the strengths for this team, some of the biggest reasons for confidence, it really does start with that offensive skill talent that we've been talking about, because this receiver core is going to be the best in the country again. I don't think it's going out on a limb to say that when you return the guy who is the best receiver in college football, Jeremiah Smith, as a sophomore now, when you have Carnell Tate, who's a pretty proven asset now stepping up into that number two role, I'm really high on what Brandon Ennis can be. I know he didn't get to flex a whole lot of that in the spring game, got involved in a couple of moments, but I think he's going to be big out of the slot, especially when you're breaking in a new quarterback.

But man, Mylon Graham, to have that, what he did in the spring game, Dan, as the number four receiver on a team, I mean, that's that's the definition of embarrassment of riches to me. There are a lot of teams, 90, 95 percent of college football teams would have Mylon Graham as their number one receiver if he were on their roster. And he's number four at Ohio State.

So always a testament to what Brian Hartline's built. But then we've talked about it and I think it was on display in the spring game, too. This is this might be the best tight ends room in the country.

When you add Max Clair, had that nice touchdown catch splitting coverage there in the first quarter, Julian Sands first touchdown pass. And that was we really got to see a lot of Max Clair's talent and why he was such a good addition. And I went back and was kind of writing about the tight ends.

In the wake of the spring game, Keenan Bailey had talked about how complimentary back in March his skill set would be to the rest of what they had in that room. But so many of those tight ends showed out in the spring game. Jelani Thurman had a nice game.

Date Roberts had a nice game and they don't even have Will Kaczmarek back yet. He's still injured. So the depth, the talent, the different pieces like Bennett Christian as a blocker, Will Kaczmarek as a blocker to go with that receiving threat, Max Clair and maybe Jelani Thurman present.

It's just such a holistic room. And I think for me, when you combine that with the receivers Ohio State has, there's just so much for a secondary to address. And then you get into the running backs who, as you mentioned, looked better and better throughout the spring with James Peoples, who you know I'm huge on, with Bo Jackson, who I think was maybe if you look holistically like biggest standout of the spring, including the practices we saw in the spring game, it might be Bo Jackson because he really turned some heads this spring.

The Ohio State is loaded at offensive skill positions. It's been the case for much of the Ryan Day era, but this is it feels like as loaded as they've ever been with the factor of those tight ends, I think.

[Dan Hope]
The only real question I have about the receivers and tight ends is how do you get all these guys on the field? Because I mean, I mean, you talked about you and Nate Roberts, like I feel like they have five tight ends who could play like real roles this year. Like, I think they're absolutely loaded at tight end by far, like the most loaded room in terms of depth at tight end that I've seen at Ohio State since I've been covering this team.

And then, you know, receiver, like you said, it's like the train just keeps rolling. And I made the comment to you the other day, like, and don't get me wrong, I'm a believer in Brandon Ennis too. I've been a big believer in Brandon Ennis since he got to Ohio State.

I think Brandon Ennis can be a really good slot receiver. I was like, are we sure Mylon Graham is wide receiver for like, just seeing what he did the last couple of days of spring, you know, but practice, we got to watch him a shoe on Friday. And then the spring game was like, are we sure Mylon Graham is wide receiver for like, he looks like he could be a special player.

And so I think they have to find a way to get Mylon Graham on the field in the rotation one way or another, but that like top four at wide receiver, Jeremiah Smith, Carnell Tate, Brandon Ennis, Mylon Graham is elite. And then you think about that. And then you hear Ryan Day saying, you know, we got to find, we might use more 12 personnel this year.

We're so loaded at tight end. So it means you're talking about the tight ends are looking so good that Ryan Day's thinking about taking Brandon Ennis or Mylon Graham or Carnell Tate or whoever off the field to make more room for the tight end. So I think that's the good news.

Like we'll get back to the quarterbacks in a little bit, but like when you think about the situation, the quarterback stepping into, they have so many weapons to work with that, you know, we heard Ryan Day say it a lot last year for Will Howard. It's the same thing's true this year. Like they don't need the starting quarterback to be Superman.

They just need him to be efficient. They need him to make good decisions. They need him to make the throws that are available to them because it's going to be a nightmare for opposing defenses to cover, you know, whatever quartet of wide receivers and tight ends Ohio State has out there because they just have so much talent at those positions.

And then, like you said, I think running back, like I said before, I think that's private position. I came out of spring where like I'm thinking about the stocks of a position group. I think that's private room where the stocks are most up for me because I felt like going into spring that was a little bit of a concern.

And now I really don't feel that. I feel like with that top three, you know, what they have behind them is to be determined, you know, can an Anthony Rogers come in a summer? Can he be a guy that they can count on some this year if they need to?

You know, Isaiah West missed the whole spring with an injury. So maybe you'd like a little bit more depth there running back. But I think that top three with James Peoples, CJ Donaldson and Bo Jackson has a chance to be a really, really good trio.

So I think you really like that offensive skill around the quarterback that you've assembled for Ohio State on offense. I think on defense, the thing that gives me a lot of confidence is that back seven, because I think that back seven is going to be elite once again. I mean, Caleb Downs is the best safety in college football.

That's not that's not breaking news. That's nothing to really do it this spring. It just has to do what we saw from him last year.

We know how good that guy is. He's going to make everyone around him better. I think in the secondary, I think the thing that was really encouraging about this spring was to see the way Jermaine Matthews Jr. performed, the way Lorenzo Stiles Jr. performed, the way Malik Hartford performed, the way Jalen McClain performed. You know, I come out of spring now feeling like, you know, they have at least six guys in that secondary who they can count on to play major roles. You know what? What exactly that's going to look like in terms of playing time between Malik Hartford, Jalen McClain and Lorenzo Stiles Jr., I'm not sure. But to me, and I know you felt the same way, I felt like especially at the end of spring, Lorenzo Stiles Jr. really looked like a guy who's capable of being that full-time nickel that they need him to be. Because, I mean, you're getting tested if you're Lorenzo Stiles Jr. I mean, you're going up against really good receivers in practice every day. And I think to see the way that he acquitted himself in that role, looking strong in coverage, you know, covering the slot receivers and tight ends, I feel good now about Lorenzo Stiles Jr., that like he can be that starting nickel for them. And then you add in the fact that they've spoken so highly of both Malik Hartford and Jalen McClain that I think, you know, Matt Patricia is going to have options. You know, we didn't really see what the Matt Patricia defense is fully going to be this spring, especially in the spring game, because Ryan Day said after a game, you know, they kept things, quote, very, very vanilla on defense. But I think between those three guys, it gives Matt Patricia and Matt Guerrero and Tim Walton a lot of options in terms of how they want to align things on the back end.

And then I think Jermaine Matthews Jr., he looks like a guy who could be one of the best cornerbacks in the country, the way that he practiced this spring. And I think, you know, pairing him with an experienced returning starter in Davis and Igbenosin, I think you feel really good about what you've got at corner. You know, you've still got that option to move Jermaine around as needed as well.

You know, Aaron Scott Jr., Devin Sanchez being guys that are pushing for playing time. But I think, you know, I come out of spring feeling like that most six in particular, you know, Caleb Downs, Davis Igbenosin, Jermaine Matthews Jr., Lorenzo Stiles Jr., Malik Hartford and Jalen McClain. I feel like that's their top six in the secondary right now.

I'm a six guys. I feel like you can really rely on. And then I think you've got three guys you can really rely on at linebacker, because I think Sonny Stiles looked fantastic when he was out there in the spring.

Arvell Reese looked really good when he was out there in the spring. And then Peyton Pierce, that's one of those, like, buy stock now kind of guys, like every single time we're out there, like that guy stands out. O.A. James Laurinaitis and Matt Patricia and Ryan Dale, I'll talk about him. Like, you can tell that's a guy they're a big believer in. And so I feel like, you know, in that back seven, they've got a really good core of like nine players there. But I think they feel like they can really rely on.

And I think, you know, that group in particular, you know, I don't expect that Ohio State is going to have a number one defense in the country again. And one reason for that is the defensive line, which we'll get back to. But I think when you think about reasons to be confident about that defense's potential to still be an elite championship contending unit, I think that that back seven, at least for me, gives me a lot of confidence.

[Andy Anders]
Yeah, number one defense, I agree with you. Number one pass defense, though, I think is very much in the realm of things for Ohio State, the way this secondary has looked. Jermaine Matthews, I think, has all-American potential, the way we've seen him perform this spring, especially that Friday practice right before the spring game when he had what was probably a pick six at a live game.

And three more PBUs was just every time he is glued to his man, he has the length, he has the speed, he has a lot of amazing physical tools at that position. And it's just exciting to see him, obviously, got involved plenty in the cornerback rotation during this playoff run. And even as a freshman, you know, you think about way back 2023 when he filled in for Denzel Burke against Penn State and have that big outing.

But this just feels like Jermaine's time to really emerge as a star of this defense, now that he has a full-time starting role. And like you said, Lorenzo Stiles Jr., I think, has been, maybe, if you were to tell me top five players that have overperformed my expectations this spring for Ohio State, I think it's Lorenzo Stiles Jr. Because I thought, really, there was going to be a real battle, a real test for him at Nickel. And is it better in the long term, maybe, to plug Jermaine in at that spot and then put Aaron Scott Jr. or Devin Sanchez at another outside corner spot?

But Lorenzo showed this spring, man. He's been like a glove in coverage. I can't recall a time he was out of phase, really running stride for stride.

He had PBUs consistently whenever we watched, whether that was student appreciation day, the Friday practice before the spring game or the spring game. To me, he was, again, one of the guys that I didn't come in as optimistic about or maybe had some questions about how's it going to look with him trying to embrace now a full-time role. Finally capitalizing year three after that position change from receiver to corner and the transfer from Notre Dame.

To me, he's been someone that's really stood out this spring. But I'm also not putting it off that Aaron Scott and Devin Sanchez can still make a push. Aaron Scott had some really good moments this spring, although Mylon Graham did beat him handily on a few plays.

Or they even had a play where Aaron Scott had a great contest on a ball, but Mylon Graham just made a great play and had a really strong catch over the middle. That battle was fun to watch during the spring. So I'm really confident in the secondary.

I'm right there with you, Dan. I think it could definitely be the best in the country. And this linebacker core, I think with how Peyton Pierce has looked, has potential to be one of the best in recent memory for Ohio State.

And that's saying something when you lost Cody Simon, who I wrote a story after the season talking about how he cemented himself as almost an Ohio State linebacker. Great, that long lineage with how he performed in the playoffs and with how he performed throughout the season. But the athleticism that's there between Arvell Reese, Sonny Stiles is really like, in the spring game, you could tell those couple of times he got into the backfield.

He didn't play a whole lot in the spring game, but the couple of times he got into the backfield and created some havoc for the offense, you really feel like his instincts are starting to develop at the position, right? Like, it's easy to forget last year was his first playing linebacker. And he was, we talked about it, Ohio State's probably most improved player on defense throughout the course of the season.

Now he's emerging as that leader. We've heard him talked about as probably the guy that could be Ohio State's Block O recipient this year, definitely a captain. He's really owning that and feels ready to emerge as a true star.

But Peyton Pierce has just been like, so exciting to watch. And you talk about instincts with him, being able to sniff out a screen pass on third and three in that spring game to prevent a first down. Getting into the backfield, he just has a nose for the ball, able to flow sideline to sideline.

And I really like his striking ability in close that wrestling background. He knocked Jake Cook to the ground on one play just with a forearm shiver. James Laurinaitis talked about that.

The best Ohio State linebackers, like you think about the Chris Spielmans, the James Laurinaitises, the A.J. Hawks of the world, had an ability, and this is what my dad always told me, had an ability to never get blocked, just refuse to be blocked. And that's what Peyton Pierce strikes me as. It's like, I don't care how big the offensive lineman is that's coming down to try and throw a block on me.

I'm going to hit him, I'm going to stack him, I'm going to shed, and I'm going to go make a play. That's kind of that energy that Peyton Pierce has that's really likable. And so I'm with you, Dan.

I think the back seven of this defense is something that gives me a lot of confidence in Ohio State. I'm really high on both the secondary and the linebacker core. So now it is just about figuring out that defensive line.

[Dan Hope]
Going back to the offensive line, what you talked about earlier, and I've said it all along, I do think this offensive line is in a better place right now than it was this time going into the last two or three years. And so I think there's a lot to be optimistic about there as well. It feels like four-fifths of that offensive line is getting pretty close to locking down starting jobs, those being Ethan Onianwa, Luke Montgomery, Carson Hinsman, and Tegwa Shibola from left tackle to right guard.

I think right tackles that biggest question mark position. But to your point, Austin Searaveld clearly made a move this spring. I don't think that competition is over, but I think Austin Searaveld certainly gave himself a real chance to win that starting right tackle job.

And that's a very encouraging thing, because I think going into the spring, you talk about things that we learned this spring. I don't think either of us would have guessed that he would be a real candidate to start at offensive tackle this year. And the fact that he's shown enough this spring where they're really considering that possibility, I think you can always look at it and go, well, who does that say more about?

I think it says more about Austin Searaveld than anything else. Because I think from what we saw, I don't think Phillip Daniels or Ian Moore have looked bad by any stretch. I think they've shown plenty of competitiveness there.

I don't think either of them has quite risen to the level yet of where they've earned a starting job on this offensive line. But I think they've shown that they can continue to contend for starting jobs in preseason camp. And I think that's one thing I really like about where this offensive line is right now, is it feels like they have a pretty good core of eight guys that they really feel pretty good about.

Those being Ifan Anyanwu, Luke Montgomery, Carson Hinsman, Tegra Shibola, Austin Searaveld, Phillip Daniels, Ian Moore, and Joshua Padilla. I think that's a good core, like I think where they have some flexibility there, and they've talked a lot about cross-training guys, but I think they have some flexibility there where if they need a center to step in, they've got Joshua Padilla who can do that. If they need a guard to step in, Austin Searaveld could move back inside.

There's different things they could do there. Joshua Padilla could step in at guard. Joshua Padilla could step in at center and they could move Carson Hinsman out to guard.

At tackle, you've got Ian Moore, Phillip Daniels competing for a starting jobs with Austin Searaveld, with Ifan Anyanwu. So I think they've got some options there. Ryan Day did hint after the spring game that a possibility that they could potentially still look to add another offensive lineman or two in the post-spring transfer window, because he said, you know, our numbers are a couple down there from where they would like to be.

And so, you know, I wouldn't be shocked if Ohio State adds another offensive lineman here if the right guy enters the transfer portal here in this post-spring window. But I think the good news is I think they would be looking for depth moves, future kind of building moves. It's not like the position they were in a couple of years ago where Ohio State had to go get Josh Simmons and that obviously worked out.

But, you know, they were in a position a couple of years ago where like they went into a post-spring transfer window, basically had to go get a tackle in the portal because they just didn't really have, you know, two good options on their roster. They pretty much had to go get an offensive tackle in the portal. Whereas I think, you know, going into this post-spring transfer window, could they use another, you know, high quality offensive lineman to beef up their depth a little bit?

Yeah. But I don't feel like it's a major need either. I feel like they have the pieces there.

They've got to continue developing in preseason camp, but it feels like that offensive line is on the right trajectory. And considering that's been the position that's been kind of the big question mark every year for Ohio State in recent years. But the fact that it feels like less of a question mark right now than it has been the last few years, that's certainly a big positive development for Ohio State.

[Andy Anders]
And I'd agree. And it's a credit to the development that was done over the course of the season to get those interior guys especially ready and where they're at in their careers. I think you feel really good.

And to your point, I wouldn't dislike Ohio State adding another depth piece, you know, especially just for the future. Because you kind of had a couple of recruiting classes, right? Where you brought in a narrower hall and maybe didn't get hit on as many guys as you would like.

But I would be totally fine too if they just stood pat and were okay with what they have right now on that front five. But I've said it before. I think Luke Montgomery is going to emerge as one of the best guards in the Big Ten this fall.

And he seems to be, like you said, locking down that left guard spot. Carson Hinsman, all the experience he has now, how he progressed after moving back to center. There were a lot of hiccups early after Seth McLaughlin went down and he had to fill into that role or move back to that role after.

Like there's been so many ups and downs with Hinsman's career. It feels like now it's kind of starting to click and coalesce for him at that center position. Right guard, you have those options there.

And Tegra Shibulla is going to, like, he's got a year of starting experience under his belt now. So it does come down to that right tackle competition. Regardless of who wins it, I think the other guys provide you with the depth you need to tackle that was such a concern entering the spring for us.

Because of, again, Austin Sierivel's move and having him able to swing those positions. What he's done being named an Iron Buckeye. Can't say enough about, like, the progression he's made clearly.

The coaching staff has gloated about him this offseason and his work. And so they're not going to solidify anything until the fall, sort of like with the quarterback battle. That being said, you know, there was a little bit of optimism given with the quarterbacks in this spring game.

I think we saw a lot of shaky outings in the time we got to watch Ohio State practice, where it felt like Lincoln Kienholz kind of outperformed Julian Sane in the windows we got. The Friday viewing we got to have, it felt like all the quarterbacks kind of weren't very good on that day. But then it turned around on Saturday.

I don't know if it was the slightly warmer weather. I don't know if it was the crowd. I don't know if something just clicked for Julian Sane and even Lincoln who had, Lincoln had a good spring game too.

Like we've talked about Julian's performance in that game a lot. But Lincoln also, I thought, you know, played pretty well. It's just that Julian, it was like, OK, now you're starting to see it.

Like we hadn't seen since some early practices his freshman year, like that five-star talent, that like eye-popping, wow, this guy can be a stud. In the spring game, we saw it. The confidence, the poise really, I think is what stood out most about that performance.

It's about consistency, right? It's he needs to show it every day and not just in those game settings or in those times. But that will come, and we've talked about it before.

Like Ohio State quarterbacks, a lot of them have looked poor in the spring before going on and doing great things. Will Howard did not look good last spring. Justin Fields did not look good the first spring he got here.

Didn't really get to see CJ's spring much in 2021 because of COVID. But the, it's kind of a trend that Ohio State quarterbacks and a bad spring certainly doesn't guarantee, or an up and down spring rather, certainly doesn't guarantee you're going to do great things in the fall, but it's not guaranteeing that you won't either. And so what we saw from Julian saying in the spring game, it was really good to see from him.

And we talked about it going in. It's most important, I think, for his confidence and his ability to perform to that Ohio State standard that he's shown he can do it in a simulated game setting. And now it'll be about finding that consistency and truly locking down the job this fall.

But he got a leg up on it. And also, Tavian St. Clair flashed. Don't want to act like he didn't.

After throwing those two interceptions, obviously. But you saw the mobility and some of the physical traits and the prototypical traits that made him such a valued prospect, made him such a really, like a late riser in the recruiting industry. Ohio State, like, I feel good about spots, better about spots one through three on the quarterback depth chart exiting that spring game than I did entering it.

[Dan Hope]
To go back to the question from the top of a show, frankly, if Friday had been Ohio State's last practice of the spring, I would have come on here and said I was less confident in Ohio State than I was going into the spring. Because coming out of that practice Friday, you know, especially Julian Sane watching him, you know, fumble multiple snaps, just look kind of shook out there. I would have said I was less confident in the quarterbacks.

You know, I think the reason I'm at just as confident rather than more confident is largely because of the fact I still don't know like exactly where they are at quarterback yet. Like I still need to see more from Julian Sane because I do think he had a really good spring game. I don't think he had a particularly good showing in the other practices we got to see this spring.

And so I think, like you said, he needs to show that consistency. To your point, I do. It does feel like in terms of spring performance, he's on kind of a similar trajectory to where Will Howard was last year to where, you know, he struggled in a lot of earlier viewings we saw of practice, but then he stepped up, performed better in the spring game.

Now, difference there is Will Howard was a guy who had played four years of college football elsewhere and he was in his first spring at Ohio State. Julian Sane is a guy who has not played much college football at all in his second spring at Ohio State. And so will he be able to make that same kind of jump from spring to fall that we saw from Will Howard a year ago?

That's to be determined. He is still a young guy, though. So you expect, you know, to see that incremental kind of grow from him.

And, you know, I think Lincoln Kienholz, too. I mean, I think, you know, I think something that like is important to say about that is like, I think, you know, when we talk about it being like a real competition, like the first thought of that is like Julian Sane's not doing enough to lock down the job. But I do think Lincoln Kienholz looks like a different guy than he did a year ago.

I think Lincoln is just more mature, both physically and both just in terms of his ability to, you know, read defenses and play the quarterback position. He's still not perfect. He's still got a ways to go.

But I think, you know, there's a lot of qualities to like about Lincoln to where I feel like, you know, if he was to become the starter for any reason at some point this season, I would not feel like up like that's that. That means that necessarily Ohio State's in trouble. I think he's a guy who has the potential if he was to become the starter, whether by winning the job or by injury or whatever.

I think you see the ability there that he could be a really good quarterback for Ohio State. And so, you know, I think I come out of that spring game certainly feeling better than I did before the spring game about wherever quarterbacks are. I'm not going to sit here and say, you know, I'm extremely confident in the quarterbacks.

I'm not. I still have reservations about the quarterbacks, but I also had those going into the spring, you know, which is why, again, I go back to that just as confident. Like I said, going into the spring, I felt they had talent at quarterback.

I always felt there's going to be some growing pains this year because whoever that starter is, is going to be somebody who's never started a collegiate game before. You know, that certainly hasn't changed based on what we saw this spring. But I also didn't see anything, you know, in the spring totality to make me say hit the panic button on Ohio State quarterbacks.

I certainly didn't see anything to say they should go spend money on Nico Iamaliava or another quarterback from a transfer portal. They'd probably still like to add a veteran backup from a transfer portal just to beef up the depth. Somebody in that Chris Chugunov, Gunnar Hoke, Tristan Jebbia mold.

But I still firmly believe the starting quarterback of this Ohio State team in 2025 is going to be Ivor Julian Sane or Lincoln Keenholz. Tabian St. Claire, like you said, I see a lot of potential in him to where in one or two years, whenever that might be, I think he has the potential to be a really, really good starting quarterback for Ohio State in the future. I think he's still a freshman who's clearly still learning.

And, you know, they're not really looking at him as a real contender in that starting job as a true freshman. But I know I think they've got a good quarterback room. You know, if you could add one more veteran to beef up the depth, that would be a good thing.

But I think that would be very much a depth kind of move to bolster the depth, not bringing in somebody to, you know, be the starting quarterback. Because I think there is a real belief that Ivor Julian Sane or Lincoln Kienholz can be that guy. I think if we're talking about a position where Ohio State could be looking to have a transfer portal to bring in players to actually play major roles for Ohio State this season, the defensive line is absolutely the area that's the priority.

And I think particularly a defensive tackle, because I remain encouraged by what we've seen from the defensive ends this spring. I think both C.J. Hicks and Logan George had strong springs. I think Logan George, particularly in the spring game, I think C.J., we've seen flashes of that pass-through rush ability throughout the spring to where I feel like between those two, Kenyatta Jackson Jr. and Caden Curry, I think Ohio State should have a strong two-deep at defensive end. I think there's still that question of whether Kenyatta and Caden can take that next step and really become stars at that defensive end position. I don't know that I saw anything this spring from either of those guys to where I could really sit here of confidence and say, like, that guy's ready to be a star. I feel like they were fine this spring when we saw them.

I don't feel like either of them flashed anything spectacular though. And I think that's kind of a question with those guys is like, can they take that jump? And Ryan Day talked about that a lot in his post-spring game press conference about Ohio State has a lot of guys who have played for Ohio State, but now they're trying to become starters, become guys they can rely on every down.

And when I heard him say that, the first two guys that came to mind for me were Kenyatta Jackson Jr. and Caden Curry, because I think those are two guys we know they can play, we know they can be quality players. But does Ohio State have a defensive end that can take over a game this year the way we saw both Jack Sawyer and JT Tuamolo do last year? That's what I'm not sure about yet.

So that's why I think Ryan Day has not closed the door on the possibility of still adding another defensive end through the transfer portal. However, I don't personally view that as like a major need. Like I think they have what they need there at defensive end.

I think if the right guy was out there to bolster that rotation, they should consider it. But I personally think they have what they need at defensive end. Even seeing the flashes we saw this spring from Zion Grady and Dominic Kirks, I think they've got a pretty good defensive end depth chart.

It's just a matter of whether somebody can really elevate themselves from that group and become a star. That's what I don't know about. And that's when you're talking about the possibility of a number one pass defense.

That's what they're going to need if they're going to be a number one pass defense. If you're going to be a number one pass defense, you have to have a pass rush that can consistently affect the opposing quarterback. That's what I'm not sure about yet.

I think they're going to be solid at defensive end. Can they be great at defensive end? That's what I'm not sure about.

I think when you move inside the defensive tackle, that's by far the number one position coming out of spring where I have very real concerns about do they have enough Ohio State caliber defensive tackles on the roster? And frankly, right now, I would say I think the answer to that is no. I think they have a couple, Caden McDonald and Edric Houston, who are going to be very good players.

But I think behind them, I think we just have not seen enough. I think the coaches have not seen enough from the other backup defensive tackles to feel like outside of Caden McDonald and even Caden McDonald, Edric Houston, like there's still a question of those guys, because again, much like Kenyatta and Caden Curry, you know, these are guys who they've played, but they haven't played in starring roles. You know, these are guys who are backing up two really good players last year in Ty Leak-Williams and Ty Hamilton.

Now they've got to try to elevate themselves to that role. And I'm big believers in both of their potential, but that's still a jump that they have to make. But the guys behind them, I just don't know who out of that group they can rely on right now.

And so I do think, you know, the one real need Ohio State has in this post-spring transfer window is a defensive tackle. They might even need two defensive tackles, but I think they need at least one. And I think, you know, you know, this is not, you know, we've talked a lot about the depth, but like you could be bringing in a defensive tackle to be a starter.

Like, I don't think that like we shouldn't just say it's about depth. It is about depth, but it's not just about depth. Like if some really good defensive tackle enters a portal and that's a guy who would come in and be a starter, you go get that guy because they just, they need more than what they have at defensive tackle right now.

And if at the very least, I think you need one or two guys who can be, you know, number two defensive tackles, who you can count on to rotate in regularly with Caden McDonald and Nedrick Houston.

[Andy Anders]
Yeah. And my number one concern at that defensive tackle position is who's giving Caden McDonald a break at that nose guard position when he needs one, because we saw Jason Moore working in with the nose guards in the spring game. And it's like, if that's really, no offense to Jason Moore.

He was a guy who was a tweener between D tackle and D end coming out of high school, plays D tackle his freshman year at Ohio State or or settles on that role. I should say settles on that position his freshman year at Ohio State. How's it really clicked?

And now it's like this guy who used to be considered maybe a defensive end prospect. You're trying to plug him at nose for depth. Like it's clear, especially at that spot, that the options are very slim.

No one out of the backup three techs to your point again is really shown that next level behind Edrick Houston, who, you know, Ohio State's defensive tackles in the spring game. It's not like they did anything super impressive. It's not like those guys were really Caden McDonald had some good moments at student appreciation day.

I'd still like to see a little more production out of Edrick Houston at that three tech spot. He's a sophomore five star kid, but he's came in as a defensive end. So he's still like learning that position, even if he played it in some big spots down the stretch of the college football playoff.

I think that is key. He needs to take another step in his development clearly. But it was that spring game.

It was just so startling. Whenever those two guys were off the field and you're just watching the interior offensive line, knock guys five yards off the ball. Like, yes, I'm high on what this interior offensive line is and the depth they have there.

But that shouldn't be happening at Ohio State. It was truck-sized running lanes for whoever the second unit running back was. The third unit running back was.

It was so apparent the lack of depth there, I think, when you were watching the trenches in the spring game. To your point, though, yeah, if that potential All-American star guy is available at defensive tackle, then we've seen Ohio State make transportable additions like this before in the Ryan Day era, where, yeah, they have someone they like at a spot. But if you can go get someone who's going to be a star, you do it.

And that's what this defensive line in general lacks right now is that star power, that anchor. You talked about it at defensive end, and I agree with you. Who's going to be that guy who can take over a game?

You do need that in modern day football. The top three priorities are get a quarterback, protect the quarterback, get after the other team's quarterback. And what is, who is doing that the most for Ohio State right now?

Could it be C.J. Hicks in a specialist role? I don't know. C.J. Hicks really, unless he takes another stride, I thought he took great strides as a pass rusher in settling into that role specifically this spring, but he still lacks in run defense if he's going to be an every down player. And he might, again, I don't think that's what maybe they're looking at him as with Caden Curry and Kenyatta Jackson Jrs, your projected starters at defensive end, but he was still over pursuing, still looked kind of lost in the running game at points of the spring, especially in the spring game. I saw that a couple times for him. Although, again, he had a really good day rushing the passer, had a sack.

That side of his game looks strong, but I don't think he can be that every down star. So who is that from this defensive line group? You're kind of waiting for it to emerge.

It could be Edgar Houston. Kenyatta Jackson Jr. But if you don't feel like you have it right now, that is something you need to look at in the portal of potentially getting a starter, a star, like to be that guy. Certainly a defensive tackle looking at that, but defensive end too.

In any case, though, get someone who weighs 310, 320 pounds plus to be a backup nose guard. It gave Caden McDonald a breath, man, because if he's coming off the field, who is playing that nose guard position that can stop the run right now? I don't know.

That is like my number one, like who's actually doing it for this team. I really don't think it's Jason Moore, even though he was doing it some in the spring game for some reason. And I really don't like Will Smith Jr. Ohio State Legacy. Cool. But all these backup guys, their best position seems to be three tech and like not excelling in that role at that. So yes, the need for that specific body type cannot be understated in the transfer portal for Ohio State this spring.

[Dan Hope]
If we just take it a more broad look at Ohio State, you know, going into the 2025 season. I think my other big question I just have with this team is just leadership. And, you know, to put it in a more simple way, like who are the dogs on this team?

Like who are the guys? If it's in the fourth quarter against Texas, who's going to be that Jack Sawyer? Who's going to be that Will Howard?

Who makes those big plays? Who who, you know, drives the team to the finish line when you get in that situation? I mean, there's a few guys who I think are certainly those guys.

I think Caleb Downs is certainly one of those guys. I think Sonny Styles is certainly one of those guys. I think Jeremiah Smith is certainly one of those guys.

You know, I think a guy like a Jermaine Matthews, I think is going to be one of those guys, just the kind of energy that he brings. I think guys like, you know, Arvel Reese and Luke Montgomery and Brandon Innes certainly have the potential to be those kind of emotional leaders for the team. But you're losing so many great leaders from last year's team.

Where that be Will Howard, Travion Henderson, Emeka Obuka, Donovan Jackson, Jack Sawyer, JT Tuamoloa, Cody Simon, Denzel Burke, Leif and Ransom. The list goes on and on. I mean, Seth McLaughlin, Jordan Hancock.

There are just so many of those kind of guys on last year's team that I think played such a big role in the team's success. And I don't know if they're going to have as many of those guys this year. I think they can get there.

I think the good thing about it, I think that is something that can be developed. Like, I think over time that is something that can grow. I think as guys get more experience and I think that's why Ryan Day came out of spring saying, I wish we had five more weeks of practice.

And why, you know, the whole idea of taking it easy got thrown out the window very quickly because I think Ryan Day quickly realized like he has another really talented team, but this team is not particularly battle tested outside of some key guys. You know, there's going to be a lot of players where they be starters or top backups, you know, going into the season that haven't played a lot of football at Ohio State, or at least not in starring roles. And so I think, you know, holistically, that's kind of my big question with this team is just like, you know, do they have those guys that are going to really elevate them in those tough moments in those big games against Texas and Penn State and Michigan and potential postseason games?

Do they have those guys who are going to really elevate them in those big moments? You know, I think again, they've got a few, but do they have enough of those kind of guys? I think, you know, when we go away from just like positional depth chart stuff and you just think about, you know, winning and losing games.

I think that's probably the big question mark I have, you know, is, you know, that along with the fact that you're also breaking in two new coordinators, which I think there were a lot of positive vibes about both new coordinators this spring. You know, I think Matt Patricia, I mean, just rave reviews all spring long. I mean, even just our interactions with him, very, very positive, like just seems to be fully embracing this job and really doing a great job of ingratiating himself within the program, ingratiating himself within the communities, making great connections with players, with recruits, with everybody.

I think he's off to a great start. I don't think the spring game really showed us anything about Matt Patricia because of what, as Ryan Day said, they kept things very, very vanilla. So we didn't really get a good feel from the spring game of like, what is defense is actually going to look like this year.

But I think, you know, there's a lot of, you know, positive vibes around Matt Patricia. And I think Brian Hartline as well. I think it's clear that Ryan Day trusts Brian Hartline a lot more than he did a couple of years ago when he was going to hand play calling duties off.

I mean, I just thinking back to this spring, you really didn't see Ryan Day wearing a headset very often. Like he was, he was really kind of letting Brian Hartline do his thing in those team drills of like he's calling the plays and Ryan Day is going to oversee everything, which I think shows you, you know, he's got that trust now in Brian Hartline with all the years Brian Hartline's been working alongside him to where Ryan Day doesn't feel like he needs to hold Brian Hartline's hand in the offensive play calling process. But I think he has a lot of trust that Brian Hartline's ready for the job.

And so I feel good, like overall about the coordinators, but it's still a big change. I mean, Chip Kelly and Jim Knowles were both a huge part of the team's success a year ago. And now both those guys are gone.

So there's just so many key figures from that national championship team that have walked out the door and so many people that are now in bigger roles than they were before having to replace them. But just that confluence of factors, you know, that's going to be one of the biggest challenges Ohio State has to overcome if it's going to defend its title.

[Andy Anders]
Yeah, I agree. It's all the newness, right? That's what we've talked about is you have all these pieces that most of the positions, maybe outside of our defensive tackle, previously expressed defensive tackle concerns, most positions you feel pretty good about.

But so many guys are new. And when you have all this newness, it's like, does it all click? Does it all coalesce?

Are all those guys going to perform to those expectations? I think that's where you have the hesitancy with it. With the coordinators, to your point, Ryan said after the spring game in his press conference that he wasn't on the headset at all because he wanted Brian Hartline to be getting as much play calling, as much communication experience as possible in that spring game.

Specifically, it's still going to be Ryan Day's offense. We talked about that before, but Brian Hartline, clearly Ryan Day, there's no like holdover wanting to take back play calling at all. Anyone who had lingering concerns about that, like he's preparing Brian to fully embrace that play calling role.

And look, when we talk about trying to get all these receivers and tight ends involved, I think someone who's going to know the passing game pretty well and have a good strategy for that is Brian Hartline, right? When you talk about one of the best, the best developer of wide receivers in the country, guy who has known and played advanced passing games throughout his career as a player, as a coach, he might, that might be a strength, right? Getting all these weapons in the passing game, their touches, figuring out ways to scheme them all open, that might be a real strength of Brian Hartline.

And to your point, yeah, I don't think there's much you can take away about the Matt Patricia defense from the spring game. Unfortunately, they struggled a little more than what we'd seen in practice, but that was because they ran the same front all game, no exotic, there were no blitzes, there were no exotic coverages. It was like, I believe it was one to two coverages they ran all game in the back end.

So there wasn't much to confuse the looks and to do the things that a defensive coordinator is going to do in season to put his players in the best position to be successful. And the one downside of that that I don't like, is that we didn't get to see some of those personnel mixes, right? That I expect to see in the fall.

Getting maybe Malik Hartford and Jalen McLean on the field at the same time, having that big nickel as Matt Patricia put it, maybe doing some more 3-3 stuff where we see Arvel, Sonny, and Peyton Pierce all on the field at the same time, but maybe putting Arvel on the edge, right? And doing some of those different looks. Of course, the 4-3 that Jim Knowles did is another way to get all three of those guys on the field at the same time.

But all those different personnel mixes are something that we kind of didn't get to see this in the spring game that I would like to see and that I'm excited to see in the fall. We will see in the fall, but they kept all that stuff very vanilla as previously stated for now. So now the question is, Dan, with all this considered, taking in all this information and all this newness and what's all happened in the spring, if you had to predict right now, what is Ohio State's record in 2025?

[Dan Hope]
I'll go 10-2, which is exactly what I would have said before the spring. So again, that's why when I said just as confident, I'm still in the same spot. I'd say 10-2 regular season record.

You've got a really tough opener against Texas. You've got, of course, the two really big regular season games against Penn State in Michigan. You've got a few other tricky games on there, whether it be going to Illinois, which is a team that people think is going to be a potential playoff contender this year.

They have to go to Washington on the road. You play Wisconsin. I think there's enough games in there that to me, I think you're breaking in a new quarterback.

You're breaking in so many new players. I'm not going to go and predict specific losses right now, but I think the most likely record for this Ohio State team this year is 10-2, which the good news is 10-2, especially if a schedule that starts off of playing Texas will get you in the college football playoff. And so I think Ohio State will make the college football playoff.

I'm not ready to say right now what I think Ohio State will do in terms of how far they'll go in the college football playoff and all that. But 10-2 to me feels like the most likely record for this Ohio State football team coming out of spring. Where are you at?

[Andy Anders]
I'm right there with you, 10-2. Not to be a copycat, but I do will peg one loss specifically. I still don't think they come out and beat Texas week one.

I just think new quarterback and Texas will have a new quarterback too, but new quarterback, a lot of so many new pieces as we talked about new coordinators, all this stuff, Texas hungry for revenge, though the shoe will be rocking. I have no doubt whether that's a noon or a night game or whatever. I think they lose to Texas week one and it kind of coalesces and you see some development throughout the season and then one other loss along the way as kind of unfolded last year.

But then playing their best football by the end of the season, be that in a potential big 10 title game, be that in the playoffs, 10-2 will definitely be enough to get them there with this schedule. No doubts about that in my mind. So I'm with you, Dan.

I see a 10-2 team with really good postseason potential and prospects to play their best football at the end of the year as they did in 2024, given all the new pieces that are going to have to come together and figure it out as the season progresses.

[Dan Hope]
Well, as we mentioned, the transfer portal is now open, so we'll be continuing to follow that over on 11warriors.com, you know, comings and goings for Ohio State football and anything that might happen here in the next week. We'll talk about that on next week's episode of Real Pod Wednesdays, as well as previewing what we expect to be a record-setting draft for Ohio State as Ohio State has a chance to have many, many players selected in the draft next week. So we hope you'll join us again, Ben.

For now, he's Andy Anders. I'm Dan Hope. Catch you next time.