I'm Travis Bader and this is The
Silvercore Podcast.
Join me as I discuss matters related to
hunting, fishing, and outdoor pursuits with the
people in businesses that comprise the community.
If you're new to Silvercore, be sure to
check out our website, www.Silvercore.ca where
you can learn more about courses, services, and
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join The Silvercore Club, which includes 10 million
in north America wide liability insurance to
ensure you are properly covered during your
outdoor adventures.
Today, I'm joined by a consummate
adventurer, entrepreneur and outdoorsmen.
The star of The Hunt, The Wild Series and owner
of Argali, Brad Brooks.
Brad, welcome to The Silvercore Podcast.
Well, thanks for having me.
It's an honor.
Well, I'm really excited to be speaking with you.
I've been following what you do.
I've been consuming some of your, your
media that you have out there, you're doing a
fantastic job with that.
And I really want to thank you for making
the time today.
I know we were scheduled for another time, but
you had a, uh, what is a 3D archery convention
or is it a tournament?
Uh, it's just, uh, yeah, just, uh, uh,
uh, 3D archery event.
I'm not really sure what the proper nomenclature
is, but this is, this is also, yeah, I, uh, we
had a bit of a scheduling snafu and I, I leave
earlier tomorrow, to head to that and I've
just got, this is like just a busy time of
year for us and for me.
And so, um, uh, yeah, I'm, I'm just glad
we could find time together to chat because
if it didn't happen today, it might be
awhile before we can make something happen.
I agree.
I mean, it's busy schedules, anyways,
thank you very much.
Really appreciate that.
So I've been watching the Hunt The Wild series.
You're doing a fantastic job with that.
How long have you been doing that for?
You know, uh, well, so we, uh, Argali was
started, uh, probably about, you know,
not that long ago, like five years ago.
And we were a content company when we started.
And, but in the, you know, our origin
story is, is fairly boring in some ways.
It was me and my business partner, uh, having a
beer and complaining about hunting media.
Um, not that there, there wasn't an, isn't
a lot of great stuff out there, but there
was a lot of stuff that we just personally
couldn't relate to.
And, you know, growing up in, uh, Idaho.
Anybody who's familiar with Idaho, Idaho has,
you know, you know, like we're the second, uh,
state in the lower 48 in terms of the amount
of like unroaded country we have, so wilderness
and roadless lands.
So I grew up around big wild country.
It was just, you know, kind of what
we did, right?
Like you would go out into the wilderness and
go hunting or go hiking.
Um, and for me, place, like specific places
were always really integral and important
to me, uh, for hunting.
So there were places that I just look forward
to going, you know, we every single fall and
we weren't, we hunted, uh, growing up, you
know, my dad is from the midwest in the US here.
And so he was a white tail hunter, very
different style of hunting than like we
do in the west here.
But so we would go on 1 hunt a year, big
game hunt a year and, uh, as kids and we
would hunt waterfowl and upland birds.
And like that was, um, for our hunting
and, uh, that was kind of what we did.
And I always look forward to our big game hunt
because we will go back to a place that just had
this, um, uh, had some sort of, um, I don't
dunno place in my heart.
I just wanted to go back there as much as I could.
I can feel that.
Yeah.
And I think most hunters have that place.
It might be your farm, it might be a
river, it might be a giant wilderness
area, whatever it is.
Like I would say that anybody who hunts or
fishes, um, and it's not just people that hunt
and fish, hunt or fish.
I think people in general have places that they're
drawn to, but hunters and hunters and anglers
in particular have places they're drawn to.
And so we, we wanted to start a company
that was looking at hunting, not through the
lens of look at me and look how look at this
big shit I've killed.
Right.
Which as again, as a consumer of media, like,
I don't care about that.
I care about, um, I wanted to see hunting
media that was trying to tell a story about
something interesting that might be a
person or a place.
And for us, because of that central role
of place, and, uh, uh, in hunting for us, we
wanted to tell stories that we're putting
people in place up front and were sort of, you
know, like, uh, I'd say the other parts of
that hunting content.
So like the kill shots and the things that you
traditionally associate with, I would say old
school, hunting media, those sort of took a
back seat in the story we were trying to tell.
Um, so that's how we got our start.
And at some point we had made a couple of,
a couple of films and, uh, in each of those
films, if you watch them, you know, conservation
and the value of wild country sort of
is, is sort of woven throughout the story.
Yes.
Um, but, uh, you know, the idea for doing The
Last Wild Place series, uh, uh, really came from
me wanting to just like drive home with a giant
hammer to people that, you know, wild country is
important, it is a scarce resource and we are not
making any more of it.
It is, you know, I guarantee you Travis,
like by the time you and I are, if we're lucky
enough to be, to live to an old age, there will
not be more wild country than there is today.
Uh, more than likely there will be less.
That's just the way human, human civilization
and progress is moving.
Um, and I'm not someone who like laments it
or is angry about it.
But I do think it's important, a little
bit, but, um, I don't get bitter about it,
but I would say that I think it's important
and that's why we started this series to
help hunters recognize like, hey, this, this
is a scarce resource.
What you got right now in front of you.
And it doesn't exist by accident, like this,
you, we can choose to keep these places
the way they are.
And I think most people uh, are drawn to the
allure of big wild country in some way,
maybe not jumping right into it if you've never
been in it before.
But the idea of it, the idea of big wild
country, the idea that it exists, like that
is something that most people can connect with.
I don't care how you vote or how you
identify politically.
That's important.
It's important to me, it's important
to wildlife and it's important to all of us as
hunters to our past and the loss of wild country
to me is a travesty.
Um, so anyways, I'll start by saying like,
uh, I think, you know, if, if we can no longer
get lost in wild country as, as humans, that's
a, that's a sad day.
We should have places to go get lost in.
And so our last Wild Places series was really
meant for, you know, to, to highlight some of
what we consider it to be the last big wild places
left in the lower 48.
And that was sort of how it all, um,
how it all started.
So you're just sitting around having some
beers and he said, w was it that fleshed out
at the very beginning of the objective?
No, no, no.
So, I mean the, the, the Last Wild Places came a
couple of years later, but the, the, uh, the,
the beers really just led to, uh, sorry, I kind
of glossed over that.
Um, the beers really just led to, you know,
it was just two guys complaining about things
is as you know, as we are wanting to do sometimes,
and that, you know, we said, well, let's why
don't we tell a story?
Why don't we make a film?
And my business partner who actually has talent
as a filmmaker, he is a filmmaker, he
actually has talent.
Um, you know, we, uh, you know, by the end
of it, you know, and, you know, I don't know
how many, how many beers we had, but it
was more, more probably than we should have.
And it was like, all right, let's do it.
And if, and people who know me know that, like,
if I say I'm going to do something, I don't
wake up the next day and say like, oh, I
shouldn't have done that.
I wake up the next day saying I committed to
do that, let's do it.
Good for you.
And so, just the way I'm wired, I guess.
But so we, we, uh, you know, literally I woke
up the next day I called Jason and I said, I meant
what I said last night.
And I said, are you in or not?
And he's like, I'm in.
And that was it.
So that was kind of how we, um, how we
sort of got started.
And then it was, there was no business plan.
There was no business.
It was just, we wanted to tell this one
story and that was Chasing Ridgelines, a
film we made about my brother and I, and.
That was a good film.
Oh, thank you.
I, I, it's hard.
It's hard to look back sometimes on like
content you've made and just like pick up,
you pick it apart as a con content creator.
Oh yeah.
Everyone's their own worst critic aren't they.
Yeah.
It's a healthy thing in some ways, but.
Yeah.
But anyways, after that, there was no,
there was no business.
There was no plan.
It was just, we want to tell that story.
After we made that, um, there was interest from
some of the companies we had worked with,
um, to do another one.
So we did another one and at some point
along the way, it was like, ah, maybe
there's something here.
Um, my, my, I know we didn't, I didn't start
creating content because I wanted recognition or
I wanted gear or any of that, like this wasn't.
Right.
You know, I had a job I didn't need, I could
pay for my own gear.
Like I wasn't, I wasn't looking, I wasn't
trying to, I didn't care if anybody, what
they thought of my hunting abilities or
anything like that um.
What was your job?
Uh, I worked it, you know, uh, public and
environmental policy.
Right.
And don't you have a background in,
got a master's in business, don't you?
Yeah.
Uh, MBA and then background in, uh, um,
environmental economics.
Right.
Yeah, it's really kind of boring.
I see a lot of math and.
Well, you sure turn it into something
that isn't boring.
Yeah, true.
I find it, I find it interesting.
The number of times that people will go to the pub
and they'll have a few beers or they got friends
over and all the grand ideas that everybody
has and the next day they just they're gone.
And I remember at an early age, I'd go out
to the pub and I'd bring a little notebook with
me, a little pencil and paper, or if I was
really fancy, I'd bring a PalmPilot that a friend
of mine, his dad gave me.
You're dating yourself now.
I know.
Bring up my PalmPilot, but people would be
talking about these different ideas.
And all of a sudden somebody would say
something like that sounds like a good idea.
And I'd ask him, I'd say, are you going to
do anything with that?
Ah, yeah.
I don't know.
I'll probably, I don't know.
Do you mind if I do something right.
Whatever, knock yourself out right into the thing.
Great.
No hard feelings.
And the next day I'd start pursuing it.
And there was so many different avenues
that I pursued.
Some of them took off and some didn't, but at
an early age, realizing that there is a great
separator between the dreamers and the
people who actually take that next step.
Cause everybody's got ideas and dreams, but not
everybody has a courage to take that next step.
Like you've done and it's really paid off for you.
It looks like anyways from an
outsider looking in.
It has.
Yeah, for sure.
And I, I, you just like touched on something
that, uh, I have, I have come to appreciate and
understand, which is that everybody's got ideas and
I used to be, so, uh, I'd say early on and I have
had plenty of failures that there are other,
I mean, Argali was not, uh, originally intended
to be what it is today.
It was intended to be a hunting clothing
company in 2010 um.
Oh really?
Yeah, I, I dreamt up the, uh, the
brand and the name.
Was in 2010 and it was before FirstLite
existed, uh, Sitka existed, but Kuiu didn't.
Um, there really wasn't a technical hunting
clothing company that I was aware of other
than Sitka and the idea for Argali, which it's
funny in hindsight cause it's not, that doesn't
sound novel today.
But it was to create a hunting gear company
and really lean into the merino wool, uh,
really hard as a, um, uh, product line.
But I was, you know, I was 25, I didn't
have any money.
Uh, I had ideas, I hustled, I hustled,
you know, like crazy to try and make it happen.
Almost made it happen, but it floundered.
Um, but I learned a lot from it, but I
think what you just said, like rings true.
It's like, I used to be very protective
of my ideas because I thought, ah, people
are going to steal them and there's some truth
to that right but.
There is.
For the most part.
When you really start to succeed there
there's truth to that because you've
already paved the way.
But when the idea is, is there as an idea form,
uh, it seems to be in a pretty safe space.
Cause most people actually won't follow
up and do anything with it until you've
actually dragged the ball the majority of the
way across the field.
Uh, that is 100% true.
Like having the, uh, like it seems so
simple and yet most people, they either
are intimidated by it.
It's too much time.
Uh, there's a lot of reasons, like legitimate
reasons, like other priorities, but I think
the way that I'm wired and I think you're, it
sounds like you're wired Travis is like, you
know, tr you know, seeing something through to its
logical conclusion is, uh, something that I have
learned sort of separates entrepreneurs from,
from non entrepreneurs.
And I don't really call myself an entrepreneur,
but like being able to like, see something
through and know, like, this is a dead end,
or this is actually, there's some legs here.
That's sort of the difference between a
lot of, a lot of folks.
And I think folks that are, uh, start
businesses, um, and are able to kind of
like scrap it together and make it work.
Um, and it's not to say that it's a bad thing
to not necessarily like follow up on
ideas, but I can't.
Yeah.
Like you and me, it's like, I can't tell you
how many good ideas I've heard from other people.
I'm like, you should do something with that.
That's a.
Totally.
Good business.
You can, you can make a lot of money with that.
It might be, you know, a five to 10 year
process to pull it out.
But that's a retirement idea, you could
retire off that one.
But anyway, I suppose people aren't
interested in doing it.
It's like the Beatles, how come they had
so many good hits.
They had so many bad ones as well.
And they just tried and tried and they saw which
ones worked and some will take off and some won't,
but the, yeah, the, um.
But not being afraid I think, you said
something too.
You can't be afraid of falling flat
on your face.
And I mean, I've started, you know, websites that,
uh, I worked on for a few months and I'm just like,
I'm gonna abandon this.
And I can remember, you know, taking crap from
some of my buddies.
They're like, oh my god, you know, making
fun of me for doing I'm like, I didn't care.
You know, you just have to like.
You can't.
No, no, no, no, no, but just like being
okay with just like trying different things.
And eventually, you know, if anybody out
there who's interested in starting a business,
it's like, your first thing may not work out.
Your second thing may not work out.
But if you're willing to keep trying things
and you're not afraid of like the frustration
that comes along with failure, um, and trust
your instincts, I would guarantee eventually,
like, you're gonna, you're gonna have a
good idea that's gonna, it's gonna stick.
Cause everybody can, anybody can have a
good idea, you know, a lot of people do
have good ideas.
Well, you know, I, one other thing that I
find, and I don't know if this is a shared
thing amongst other entrepreneurs, but, uh,
whatever that idea is, you can make it happen.
Whether you turn around and look back afterwards
and say, was it worth it?
Maybe, maybe not there after some time
I found that really smart ones are able
to identify, wait, this is not the best
direction to be going in.
Let's pivot and take a better direction, but
no matter what your idea is, if you're,
whatever it is, selling little widgets, you
can make it work.
It might be a lot of work.
It might be every hour of the day, but
you can make it work.
You might look back and say, man, there
was much easier things I could've done.
And I think that's where a lot of people, uh, fail
is because they don't see, they don't see it
working or they don't see that instant success out
of it, or maybe they're smart and they, they're
not as pig headed.
And they say, you know, I think it would be a
lot better for me to do this other thing.
Just work for somebody else and I'll make as
much or more money.
But I don't know if they'd have the
same satisfaction.
Yeah.
I don't know either.
I think, you know, one thing I've noticed
in my like peer group of business people,
um, they tend to be very stubborn group.
Um, um, I am a stubborn person for sure.
And, um, I just think, you know, not, not
taking no for an answer or taking, you know,
every challenges as just like, I'm not gonna, not
accepting what's given to you is just like a
common thread, um, that.
Right.
I see, uh, it's, it's both a blessing and
a curse for those people that I know who
are friends of mine who fit that bill so.
Well there's always a solution.
We might not see it yet.
If we've tried everything.
Keep trying because you haven't found
that solution yet.
Yeah.
I mean, yeah.
I mean, just, I mean, just to bring that
home, I mean, think about this, Argali, I
thought of it in 2010, I failed at starting a
clothing company, um, for a variety of reasons,
which I won't even get into, but there was a
five-year lull where I tried other things,
not, not Argali, but I was like poking around
at different things and I, none of them
really came to fruition, like none of them.
Um, and it wasn't that, uh, I wasn't really
trying seriously, like I had, I was just like
doing things I was interested in, um,
hunting and rock climbing are kind of the two
things I'm interested in.
So I was trying some things out in
the climbing world.
Um, and none of it, none of it real seriously,
but there wasn't, there was a five-year gap
in there before I felt like there was something
worth doing that actually had legs .Um, Yeah.
And you know, again, every day I question
whether or not this is actually gonna work out.
So it's a, it's a, it's a daily struggle.
It's still an ongoing process.
So are you a trad climber, sport climber?
Everything.
Yeah, I think my, my preferred style, I
love Alpine Alpine rock climbing.
Um, but uh, spent a lot of time, uh,
sport climbing.
I've traveled internationally, a sport
climb, um, and do a lot of that here locally.
And I think before I had kids, I did a lot
more traveling, Alpine climbing all over the
place and we have a lot of great Alpine climbing
here too, but, um, a little bit of everything
I do and in the winter I bolder a lot for, uh,
just strengthen strength training, but yeah.
Keeps you fit for hunting season that's for sure.
Yeah.
It's a nice balance to hunting too you know.
I get, I get bored easily and I, I love
hunting, but it's nice to have a break.
Um, balancing in life for me is really important.
Not just with my own personal interests, but
family, you know business is a break from hunting.
Um, you know, the thing, the thing that nobody
tells you about starting a business in the hunting
industry is that like, you know, your customers,
uh, want things during hunting season, which
means that you have to think about their needs.
Yeah.
That's your season shot.
Yeah exactly.
Exactly.
Well, that balance that you're talking
about, that can be incredibly difficult.
And I know some entrepreneurs, some
driven people will have a very difficult
time changing gears, whether it's work,
work, work, or family, family, family, and try.
And how do you manage that balance?
Uh, I think poorly and it's a constant struggle.
Like if I'm being honest, like I, uh, I shouldn't
say poorly, like, I, I, I try really hard to
find that balance, but, you know, it's like, if
there's, if this is the balance point right here,
you know, it's like, I'm constantly kind of going
back and forth and I'm always trying to find
the middle, but it's like this invisible middle
that I never know if I'm, if I'm on the right spot.
Um, uh, I'd say that the thing that I have with,
you know, going with my wife is we just have a
really honest, candid, transparent relationship.
So she feels like, um, um, too far, uh, on
the, on one side of that scale, she's gonna
tell me, um, she'll be very direct about it.
Like you're working too much.
You need to, we need to do something
in the family.
And it's like, you're right.
I, we do.
That's so important.
It is.
And I, without that, like, this are my
whole situation.
Wouldn't work very well.
Cause I.
I don't need somebody to, uh, tell me
to go to work.
I wake up early in the morning and I'm
excited to do it.
Just like a lot of people who love what they do
and, you know, it's, uh, 8:45 um, I'm going
to work til probably midnight tonight.
Not because that's why every day, but because
like there's some things to do and I'm going for
a work trip tomorrow.
Um, but you know, this last weekend I spent the
last couple of weekends, uh, camping and hanging
out with the family and the kids and going up,
you know, not doing, not doing anything,
uh, uh, that I would be doing if I, if I had my
like, choice of doing something active right.
But just going out and hanging out with the
family, taking the kids fishing, um, and, uh,
anyways, just doing, you know, fun family stuff.
So I try and and spend when I'm not, when I'm
not traveling, when I'm hunting, being present
with my family and then also scheduling
things out with my wife.
So, uh, you know, work, we went to
Hawaii this year we're going next year.
Beautiful.
Which island?
Uh, we went to Maui last year and we're going to
go to Maui again because we had so much fun.
Nice.
Yeah.
Yeah I've always spent, I did Maui once, but
it was uh, Kauai, spent a fair bit of time on
Kauai north shore Oahu.
Oh okay.
Even though, Oahu can be a bit busier, get on the
north shore and quite enjoy it over there.
Nice.
Were you hunting or just surfing or hanging out?
Surfing.
Yeah actually, um, I remember, uh, a seat
sale came up one time and a friend calls up.
He says, there's a fantastic seat sale.
It was, I forget how much it was.
I know the grand total was $500, $500 covered
the flight there and back back, and this was
a Kauai and we surfed Hanalei and well we
surfed all over, but spent the most of the
time and Hanalei uh, it covered the, uh,
between the two of us.
Uh, my half of the vehicle rental, my
half of accommodations, which was the vehicle.
We just slept inside a van.
My, my surfboard rental and my food.
It was just under $500.
And, um, of course we didn't have much
money and that was really appealing.
And, but I said, no, I, I can't go.
And, uh, because my daughter was just born,
she's a week old and my wife says there's
nothing you can do for her right now.
Why don't you go, you're not going to get this
opportunity again, go, which bless her,
thank her very much.
But uh, ended up spending a week in Kauai for
just under 500 bucks surfing and I haven't
seen the seat sale like that come up again.
That was pretty, that's a pretty cheap
Hawaiian vacation.
Yeah.
Well, when you're eating like ramen noodles and
even sleeping in the back of the minivan, it sure
helps cut costs as well.
Yeah, yeah, no, I, I, you know, I think it's,
uh, like personally for me it sounds like
you're probably the same way Travis, is that the
hunting climbing and, and other things are really
like important for my, for me to be me and me
to be present and be a good dad, a good partner.
And, um, I, I envy people who don't really need
that, that can just be present all the time
without doing things or having, you know, in
some ways it's like, man, it sounds really nice.
Um, but it's just, it, it is just not, it's just
not who I am and I've come to terms with that.
And, uh, so if I, if I get restless really
easily, uh, I never envisioned myself
getting married or having kids is, uh,
in my, in my twenties.
And then I met my wife and she's fantastic
and changed, changed everything, and she's.
Yes.
Phenomenal and I wouldn't trade it for the world,
but, um, yeah, it's, it's, it's tough, man.
It's like finding that balance when doing
the things that are really important to you
pursuing your dreams as a person, as a
human, but also being a human you're, a dad
and a good partner, or husband or, or, or wife,
whatever the case may be.
Um, and I don't pretend to have it figured out
and, uh, I'm always trying to do everything.
And I think just being totally candid, it's,
it's a challenge.
And, you know, uh, don't don't necessarily do
a a hundred percent, uh, you know, a great
job all the time, but, uh, try and, you know,
try and find that balance all the time.
As long as we're trying, that's all we can do.
So you've got two, two kids now, right?
I do.
Yeah.
Two girls.
And I remember watching one of your series there,
and you're talking about wanting to, uh, take them
out hunting and I think.
Yeah.
It was a couple of years back, are they have
an age where they've been able to come on
hunting with you yet.
So my, my oldest daughter is about six years old
and she's been out Turkey hunting with me twice.
Uh.
Nice.
Yeah.
So, um, which has been fun.
It's kind of a nice, like intro to hunting.
If you like Turkey hunting can be
fairly pedestrian.
Cause you get it, you can sleep in and go out
and you can get some, you can call birds in
and they can, you know, see a bird gobbling
their brains off.
I don't know.
I don't know if you guys do.
It keeps it fun.
Yeah, it does.
Yeah.
Um, although this last year, my oldest daughter,
we called in a Tom who was just gobbling his
brains off about 20 yards out from the blind.
We were my brother and I were taking his daughter
out who's who can't hunt.
And my daughter was just along for the
ride and she just slept through the whole
thing, just a Tom, like gobbling out, just
strutting and gobbling right out front of us.
And she's just like, she's cold asleep in.
So I'm like, well, this is like, I wanted to
come show you this.
I was more excited than she was and we.
Oh totally.
Get out there and she's just like, eh,
I'd rather, I should.
She's just excited to be out there with you.
I mean, they'll whole hunting and everything
else is, you know, when, uh, before having
kids, I said, you know, made the commitment,
gonna have kids.
And essentially, uh, I've made the commitment that
my life is now second place, essentially w
all the things I want to do or now second place.
And first priority is going to be
kids and family.
And I think in some ways that's, uh, it's
got merit, but what you're saying earlier
about, essentially being able to identify
what defines you and not losing that piece.
Now, if you're just living for the kids and
the family, but you're not getting out into
the rock and you're not getting out into the
mountain and you're not doing these things that
keep you present, then you're not giving your
best to your family.
And it's sort of a disservice.
So I, I really like how you frame that one.
Um.
It feels, uh, at times I think the, uh, my, for
me, it feels as though you could call it being
selfish in some ways too.
And it's really, I think it's a healthy, for me
anyway, it's healthy to, to be like, always
checking yourself.
Like, are you, you know, are you doing what's
best for your kids?
Um, or is this, is this something you
really need to do?
Or is this just you being selfish and
making excuses so you can go do the
things you want to do.
Um, and I, S you know, again, it's like, I
don't, I don't know what the reality is
in that situation.
And I don't, I don't think there's ever
going to be it.
There's never an answer to that question.
Um, but it's, uh, for me answer asking the
question of myself is important because it
makes me wrestle with it.
And sometimes I'm like, you know, you don't
need to go do that.
Like, you know, what's more important right
now is like, you need to hang out.
You know, your kids are having your
daughter's having a hard time tonight.
You're not, you're not going to do the thing
we're going to, you're planning to do, or you
need to cancel that meeting because there's
something going on right.
Like, so it, it helps keep it in check.
And I just think questioning your motives
and why you're doing something, it's just
a healthy way to try and find that balance.
Well, something off something else
that you brought up was a schedule.
And he said, uh, scheduling things
in appropriately, scheduling time with
a family scheduling.
That was one thing that, you know, people
ask you, they say, oh, it must be nice.
You've got your own business and you
can, they'll joke, you can take any
day off you want.
But the reality is, is you tend to
work all the time.
And even when you're not working in the
business, you're thinking about the business or
working on the business.
And I found that scheduling your time
and being very diligent with that is, it
took me a while to figure that one out.
But it's such an important piece
of the puzzle.
Is that the same with you?
Oh man.
Yeah, my schedule, I live and die by my schedule.
Um, yeah, I mean, if, like I said, I mean,
when you work, when you work for somebody
else, uh, you may love your job, but you could
set that down and walk away and there are
other people that will fill in the slack.
I think when it's your company, you, it's your
baby, uh, not working all the time or a lot
to make it succeed is just not in the cards.
It is your thing and it lives or dies by
the things that you do.
So, um, and if you're somebody who wants to
see your things succeed, uh, or your paycheck
is dependent upon it, um, it's really hard
to just turn it off.
I have a hard time turning it off, uh,
for that reason.
And so like, yes, being scheduled is
incredibly important.
Um, I schedule my time sometime in 15
minute increments.
Right.
To, yeah.
It's like, if I want to get yeah, six, seven
things done in a two hour period, I'll block out
15 minute increments.
Like I would to go to bed tonight for things
I want to do tomorrow before 7:00 AM, I'm going
to schedule each one of them out and make sure
I get all of them done.
Um, and it's a way that it helps bring peace
to my life because I'm like, okay, I can, I
can not think about that now because I'm going to
deal with it tomorrow.
Um, and it also brings structure and allows
me to do other things that aren't work.
You know, a, a fellow that I was speaking with
recently on a podcast and afterwards he, uh,
he says, you know, he's, uh, he's in his, uh,
mid twenties, younger, early to mid twenties.
And he says, I'm a project manager right
now, but I'm young enough, I'd really like
to run my own business.
And this guy is an avid outdoors man, and
he's very passionate about hunting.
And, um, I don't find what I don't find his
desire, uh, unusual.
I find a lot of other people, they
say the same thing.
It looks really neat, I'd really like to, uh,
to start my own thing.
I asked him what he wanted to do.
He's like, I don't know yet, but I just, I have
the desire right now.
I don't know what it is, w what I want to do yet.
What advice would you give to
somebody like that?
Because I have a feeling he would want to do
something in the outdoor world or in the hunting
world cause that's where he's got such
a big passion for it.
Hmm.
I would say, uh, yeah, try things.
Like, just try stuff out, dip a toe in the
water, um, uh, and go with what you know, too.
Um, I think it's, it's hard to start a business
uh, if you don't, if it's something that's
outside of your, your knowledge base or area of
expertise, everybody has some area of expertise.
Uh, they have something that they
know a lot about.
It might be card games, I'm just
making stuff up here.
Yeah.
You know, but like everybody has something
or can have something that they, they have sort
of a unique set, uh, knowledge set around that
they can, they can figure out how to like craft a
business around, um, may not be a good business,
but they can crash the business around.
Right.
Like, um, and you know, something that you
know about and feel as though you can,
uh, contribute some knowledge to the world
around that is unique.
Uh, I think that's your best chance for success.
If you try and like create a, if I were
to go out, let's just use myself and I was
going to go out and create like a, uh.
Travis, like, uh, something maybe that you
do is like, I'm going to create a tactical
defense training course, something I don't
know anything about.
Sure.
Uh, I wouldn't, I don't think I'd have a very
successful business because I would try to
be like learning and then like teaching the things
I'm learning to other people, whereas like, you
know, hunting and hunting gear, I, you know,
for better, for worse.
I know a lot about that um, and I think
a lot about it.
So, um, that is, you know, it's sort of
like our, my unique value proposition
as a business right.
And so if, if, uh, yeah, so anyways, I would just
say, think about those things where you have
a unique set of skills or unique knowledge,
and it's something that you're interested in
and that you can figure out how, you know, what,
what about that knowledge or that experience that
you can, um, leverage into a business.
And it might be a service, service-based
business, or it could be a more of a product
based business.
Well, you're in sort of a unique category.
So my wife's a chef and she would work long
hours in the kitchen.
She'd come home and she'd be excited about cooking
something or excited about, uh, uh, dry aging
our own uh westphalia ham or whatever it might be.
And most people who work, it's like the mechanic
that's got the crummy car because they never want
to touch her own vehicle just enough to get there
and back from work.
Cause they're working on it all day, you're
in a position where you've taken your
passion, you've taken something that you
love and you kind of made it your work.
Do you find that it's, do you find that difficult?
Like does it take some of the joy out of your
work when you're, okay now I'm I know I'm out
there, but I'm field testing one of my
pieces of equipment or?
Does that get difficult?
Yeah.
Um, I mean, I, I, my general operating
assumption is that the minute this business
or my work stop, ceases to be fun, I'm going
to walk away from it.
And I think about that frequently, and I say no
to things that I don't think are fun or keeping
this interesting for me.
And I try very hard to, and I work very hard to
create a business that is interesting to me
and doesn't make me hate hunting and hunting gear.
Um, cause it's, it's, it's a, uh, making your
passion your job is not always the best thing.
Um, it's not the best, that's the right thing
to do necessarily either.
Um, uh, it's, it's kinda like, there's a reason
I don't, I never, I've never become a guide.
Never official like been a big hunting
guide and it's because I know it would
ruin hunting for me.
Uh, and it lot of respect.
Yes I could see that.
To other guides like, I just, I think I would
have some great clients that I enjoyed hanging
out with, but I would have, there would be some
people that I'm like, man, this is not fun.
I don't want to do this anymore.
And that would make me, you know, and so for me,
one of the ways I keep it fun is I carve out a lot
of time to go hunting.
So hunting, I have may I make a commitment every
year to, to hunt as much as I possibly can.
I don't know how long I'm going to be alive
on this planet so, um, I didn't start this
business to not continue to hunt or to keep
doing fun adventures.
And so I take large chunks of time
and I go hunting.
Um, and when I'm out hunting, it's, it
is definitely, uh, it's a lot of work
because usually we're filming content, right.
So we might be going on a hunt, but there's
cameras around.
I might be self filming or we have, uh, one
or two people running cameras and that's,
um, it's not, uh, it definitely changes
the hunt when that, when that's, what's
going, when you have cameras around.
Yes.
There are times where I have been very frustrated
by the cameras.
And I've just said, like, I'm over this.
Like, I don't, I don't want to do this and
like, this is not fun.
I just want to go hunt, like the way I used to,
uh, by myself or with my family, my friends,
not to worry about this, but, you know, that's,
uh, um, it's, it's almost like a spoiled kid
crying that he has too much money or something,
you know, like.
Sure.
I mean, it's, it's, it's kind of ridiculous.
It's like you have created.
I get it though.
Yeah, I mean, I get it, but at the same time,
I'm like, you know, like you've created a business
where you get to go on all these like fun trips
and like, you know, if anybody else looked
from the outside they're like, cry me a river um.
Right.
You know, that's, it's, you've created
this world, like now live in it.
Um, so it's, uh, to me it's a small pence to
pay and I, I usually, uh, the way I try and
balance that as I'll do, you know, one or two,
uh, hunts a year with no cameras around just,
just me and either by myself or with buddies
and just like, it's just me hunting for me.
Um, and that keeps me centered.
I'd say I haven't, um, I actually really love
making products and I love testing gear
and I haven't gotten tired of that yet.
I might get tired of it someday.
I reserve the right to hate it at some
point, I haven't reached that point
yet, I still love it.
I think about it.
It's the last thing I think about when I
go to bed, typically it is the first thing
I think about when I wake up in the morning,
I . Think about fabrics.
Really?
It is it's and I love it.
I, I am, uh, I mean, it's, it's, it's,
it is good for, I mean, if there's a
reason I'm doing what I'm doing, right.
It's like.
Totally.
And I think the, when, when you're
making a product, there is no detail
that is insignificant, not one down to the
size of the thread.
Uh, the, you know, the, the elasticity of
the thread, there is nothing that I consider
to be insignificant on a product, nothing.
And that drives people around me,
probably crazy.
Um, but it is, but you know what, like
that's, you know, I feel like that's what sets
our products apart is like, I don't, I'm not
satisfied with that.
And if I don't like it, we won't make it.
Um, and.
Absolutely.
I have, I have spent, I have been in a room with
one of our engineers and we're looking at 3D
printouts our knives.
And I mean, there was, there was a knife
design or Serac knife.
I can't tell you how many additions of our Serac
we went through where we were, we were printing
out 3D prints, just trying to get the shape.
Right.
First of all, and I had the way our design,
I'm not an engineer.
So like, you know, I, I rely on people
that have a lot more skill and talent than
I do to actually bring these products to life.
But I drew it.
I draw them out like to a T of what I want exactly.
And I'm like, okay, this is what I, this
is the shape, the size dimensions, everything
like, this is what I want, you know, it
was just, you get into a CAD file and get
some 3D print outs.
And it was off like, probably
about a millimeter.
And I was looking at it and I'm like, this
is, this is wrong.
This is like, can you see how, like this
little part of it, it's like, got about a half a
millimeter more and he's like, I can't see that.
And I'm like, it's there.
And you know, like, that's the kind of like,
neurosci, neuroses that goes into like product
design and development, but I, I love that stuff.
And so it's what, it's what keeps me going.
Um, and I really do enjoy that process.
Well, you can really tell that you've thought these
things through, because even you, you look at
the products that you're designing, even like the
game bags and you you're going through all, you
can use a drawstring string for this.
You can actually use it as a pillow.
We set it up like this so you can use
that as a stuff, sack.
And it's, every little bit of it has, if you
need emergency shoelaces, here you go right.
You've thought that through.
And you've got another one that, uh, I gotta
get my name on the pre-order list here
somehow, but you've got a belt you've designed.
I'll get you, I'll get you on the pre-order.
Yeah.
The Kodiak belt.
Yes.
Yeah.
Tell me about that.
It's funny.
It's pretty cool.
Yeah.
I'll, I'll tell you about it, man.
And I, I should tell you, like, I'm not in
the, like the survival wilderness skills
community, but the number of people from
that community who reached out to me and
be like, Hey, can I get one of those things?
Um, I'm like, I don't have any to give you
right now, but, um, uh, so our Kodiak belt, it
is a field belt and a knife sharpener in one.
Um, so it is a, um, I wanted it to be like, you
know, a, the ideal belt that I would want to wary
wear, uh, for hunting and for just everyday use.
And so just thinking about, um, how it fits
underneath the backpack, um, the, the weight
of it, the shape of the buckle, everything
like, you know, I want it to just be that
ideal buckle that just happened to be made out
of materials that could shape, sharpen or hone
any knife, broadhead or anything, any fishing
hook, anything else you want to keep sharp.
Um, the, uh, speaking of product design and
being anal retentive, this product took me
like two years of like concerted effort and
just trial and error.
And at one point, uh, walking away for six, uh,
oh close to six months, again, it was just
never going to work um.
Really?
Oh my gosh.
Yeah, man.
Cause I couldn't figure it out.
So if you haven't seen the product,
you have to go check it on our website.
It is a, I mean, I'm biased, but it is, it's
a cool product, it is a cool ass product.
It's pretty cool.
I agree with you.
Yeah, it's it has
three differs different materials
built into the belt.
So, um, think about just materials that are
integrated into the belt that can, that can fully
shape sharpen your knife.
Um, there is a six inch vegetable tan leather
strap that is sewn into the webbing of
the belt on the side.
There is a tungsten carbide bar that is,
that is seated in the top of the, of, uh,
the buckle itself as a thin sheet of aluminum.
And on the top of that, on one of the, uh, uh,
top sides, we have a thin, a thin piece of,
uh, tungsten carbide.
And then on the back, what I say, what I
call the coup de gras of the belt, on the
back of the buckle is a flush piece of, uh,
800 grit, diamond grit.
So you can.
So cool.
Yeah.
That, that diamond grit piece of it that
took forever to figure out how to make that
the tungsten carbide.
I mean, tungsten carbide is not a common knife
sharpening material.
Um, I just happened to have a good friend of
mine, who I went to high school with, who is a PhD
material scientist, and I'd stop by his office.
And I'd say, you know, he doesn't know anything
about knife sharpening.
He's like in like, you know, material science,
he's mostly doing like high tech, you know,
computer processing, you know, microchips.
And, but he knows a little bit about
everything and I stopped by his office.
His name is Brian, and I'd be like,
Brian, here's what I'm trying to make.
I don't really know, you know, like here's
the common materials for knife sharpening.
And he's like, hey, you ever thought about
tungsten carbide?
And I was like, no, I haven't, I don't
really know a whole lot about tungsten carbide.
And then I started.
Yeah.
So Brian had no.
And so I started testing it and I was like, this
stuff actually works, you know, to sharpen a knife.
Um, but it's also really expensive.
It's tungsten carbide is used to like drill
bits to like drill in, you know, rare
minerals and like it's used on the bottom of
trekking poles as well.
Um, but the first, the, so the first belt
we made, um, complete belt, the, the price,
like our price for it was about $300 a belt.
Like that was how much it was gonna cost for us
to make individual units, let alone sell it at a.
Right.
At a profit.
And I was like, there is no way where, no one's
going to pay, you know, whatever, 400, 500 bucks
for a, uh, a belt buckle.
It doesn't matter what it does.
Unless it has like.
Got a limited market.
Yeah, it has a blow torch that like comes
out of it or something can like start a fire
or like, um, so anyways.
Do your taxes for ya.
Yeah, exactly.
So just figuring out how to like, get the
manufacturing uh, right.
And getting, getting a process down with our
manufacturer that, that actually made it at a
price that people would be built, willing to pay.
It took a long time and then just getting
the materials right.
And the design, right.
Um, yeah, it just took a long time.
And then, and then the thing, the other thing
that, uh, you'll see people see if they look
at it the way the webbing capture system works, it
creates a really flush, uh, flush system against
your stomach, uh, which I really wanted because
anybody who's ever packed out, had a heavy
pack on knows that when you cinch down your hip
belt, if you have like a traditional webbing belt,
it creates a little bulge right around your stomach
and your hip belt, which is either you have to
either push that bulge above or below your hip
belt, or it digs into your stomach and so it's
really uncomfortable.
Um, the way our weapon capture system works,
it creates a really flat surface that mirrors
the shape of your belt buckle on your backpack.
And so it creates a flat plate essentially which
is a really comfortable way, um, to, uh, to
wear a belt buckle.
So anyways, I L this belt has been it, you
know, it's only on presale right now.
We started a pre-sale a few months back.
It doesn't actually, it won't actually be for
sale, um, probably until at least late October.
Um, and you know, so far it's, it's been a very,
very popular item for us.
Um, uh, but I will, I will get you on the
presale list there.
Please.
So you brought up a bunch of things and I
should be taking notes.
Cause my my ADHD mind will jump all
over the place.
But you're talking about, um, we've
talked about filming.
I really want to touch on that.
So if we don't, remind me, um, as well, heavy
packs now you've got a climbing background.
Are you, are you familiar with Mark Twight?
Oh, uh,to Kiss or Kill is one of my all time.
I read that thing about once a year.
Okay.
So in listening to you talk and watching you,
I'm like, you know, I I'm sure there's some
Mark Twight philosophy that's kind of rubbed
off here a little bit because I definitely
see that you go fast, you go hard, but you'll,
uh, and lightweight.
Um, is that, would that be a correct assessment?
I, I think, you know, I actually, the first
article I ever wrote for our field notes
was, uh, it was based on Mark Twight's philosophy
of light and fast.
Um, so that's funny.
I'm, it's funny to hear you talk
about Mark Twight.
Sounds like you're a fan as well.
Um, I don't actually know.
I am yes.
Personally, but, um, I think he, his, his
way of approaching the mountains is how
I approach my life uh.
I agree.
Yes.
Is that, does that make sense that you try?
So if you're not familiar with Mark
Twight, his book to Kiss or Kill, everybody
should read that book.
It's about, it's a series of essays that are about
his climbing adventures.
Um, they're phenomenal stories in general,
but there's a lot to be learned about.
Uh, there's a lot to be learned in period, period
from Mark Twight's book.
And I think one of the things that, that Mark
really pioneered, you know, it used to be that,
you know, mountaineers went, uh, when, when they
would want to climb a big mountain, it was like
a siege tactics, like lots of guys, lots of
gear you'd shuttle gear.
You just essentially stage gear up the
mountain food, water, tent, supplies.
And it was just like a siege tactics.
Like it took forever, but eventually you
get to the top stack enough people, enough
hours, enough ropes.
Eventually you're gonna get the top of
the mountain and here comes Mark Twight.
And I think some other contemporaries taking
nothing like no gear, no shelter, going, you
know, solo climbing, a lot of the time.
Uh, but just really this idea that once
you shed yourself of all your weight.
You can go so much faster and cover
so much more ground and do so much more.
And it was revolutionary at the time.
It totally was a revolutionary tactic.
Um, I, I apply that same mentality to my hunting.
Um, the less you take, the more the, you
know, the more you can do, um, things slow
you down, everything slows you down.
Weight slows you down.
There's a balance to be had there, but
that philosophy of like the more you
carry more weight, you have, the more, it
just slows you down.
And, uh, there's definitely a, a lot of,
I get a lot of pushback for that from guys.
You're like, ah, that's, you're, you're, you
know, blowing this out of proportion.
You know, there's, you know, and I may take
it to a little bit of an extreme, but, you
know, my experience has shown me that every
ounce, it really does add up and it affects
your mental attitude.
It affects your physical abilities, it effect, it
can affect everything.
So I carry that through also to our business
life, my personal life.
It's the yeah.
Less is more sort of mentality.
Well, totally well, and, well, Mark me the very,
uh, astute observation.
He says, you know, people are getting injured or
dying in the mountains because of the length of
time they're out there.
And the amount of exposure you're getting
more tired, you're getting mentally
fatigued, your body isn't working the
way it would in this.
He said, let's, let's try taking this differently.
Let's go fast, let's go light, let's go hard.
And it's funny, a friend of mine he's,
um, uh, ex British army.
He's been on this podcast talking about
his, uh, the selection process for SAS and his,
his time doing that.
And he says, you know, reading, Mark Twight's
book, um, anything he's got a couple of, he says
the training program that he puts forth in, uh, in
this book is very, very similar to the training
program that they use for elite special forces
in the British military.
And, uh, the mentality of being able to accomplish
a mission, um, in a very effective way.
Mind you, Mark would put the caveat out there with
the go fast, go light, you also have to be
able to exercise proper judgment and turn around.
That mountain will always be there, turn around
if conditions aren't looking favorable, come
back again and try fast and hard the next day.
Um, as opposed to just slogging through, because
that's where people find themselves in trouble.
Yeah, no, and I, I think those are words,
words to live by, you know, it's like it
that, yeah, I, I do.
I think there is a certain amount of, of,
uh, mental and physical tenacity that Mark and
other, uh, people that I've known that are like
him, that I have applied to, you know my life
in many different ways.
There's a lot from climbing that I've
learned about myself and that I apply to
business life and to hunting as well.
Um, you know how to deal with fear is a big one,
not letting fear control you, getting out of
your comfort zone and, and, you know, knowing
when you're actually in danger versus when you,
your mind is convincing me that you're in
danger and you're just scared, you might be
scared, but you're safe.
Right.
That's what, and I don't, I don't know if that's
been true for you in your climbing, but like, I.
Yeah.
I, you know, I can distinctly before kids.
I can, I could, I did a lot of things that, you
know, people close around me don't really know
about, and I don't really care to tell them about.
My wife doesn't ask me a lot of questions
about things that I used to do, I got lucky.
Sure.
Um, I've, I've been very lucky.
I've had some situations that probably could have
gone, like a lot worse could have gotten worse
than they did because nothing ever happened.
Um, after kids, uh, I told myself like, I'm not
going to dial it back.
Um, I've definitely dialed it back
and I think it's the right call.
Um, but there's, there are I still like
getting out and, uh, not scaring myself, but
I like getting out and just dealing with that,
you know, fear of, of, uh, of being in the
mountains and going fast and trying hard things.
You have to do that.
You gotta do that.
I do anyway.
Um, uh, yeah, and like, as an example,
there's still another buddy of mine.
Who's a, just an absolute crusher climber.
Um, he and I are trying to do this thing and
there's this route, there's this piece of
rock in the Sawtooth mountains of Idaho called
the Elephants Perch, it's just this granite
dome, 1200 foot granite dome, and some of the
best rock in lower 48.
Like it is absolutely perfect granite,
impeccable granite.
And, uh, we have set out this goal of doing
like, uh, three of the harder routes there in
a day, which has never been done before, but
it's all for me, that's like a way I can push
myself and do new things that is very physically
and mentally difficult.
That's never been done, but I also have done
those routes before.
And so I feel very like safe and confident that
even though there are some like hard rock
climbing on those, like it's not a life or
death situation for me.
And so it's a way for me to like, push my, my
limits, but in a way that is, uh, a little bit more
controlled and like in a dad friendly kind of way.
Yeah.
Well, nothing brings one's own mortality
to the forefront than having children.
I found anyways, it really, all of a sudden
the light went on.
Pre-children, I wouldn't say I didn't care if I
lived or died, obviously I'd prefer to be alive
than to be dead, but I never truly feel,
I never truly felt alive or as alive as
when I almost died.
And I would find myself, putting myself into
situations which scared me, or which were, um,
actually, potentially quite dangerous for the
feeling that you get afterwards of yes, I've
accomplished something.
I've pushed myself through.
I've gone further and, and you know,
I'm not dead and I'm actually capable of
a heck of a lot more.
Yeah, no, it's true.
Um, I still love that.
Uh, yeah, you just, it's, it's a personal
growth, you know, um, learning about yourself.
What is the, what's the, um, what's the famous
quote about, you know, the problem with riding
the edge is, um, thought about like once you
find it you're, it's too late or something uh.
Yeah, oh totally.
It's like ouali.
Yes, yes, exactly.
Um, yeah.
Anyways, but yeah, Mark, I'm just going back to
Mark, like somebody who, uh, you know, certainly
is, is, uh, tougher and shit, as an individually.
Um, you know, his whole life, I don't know
if you, where like the Jim Jones and.
Yes.
How we trained all the guys for that movie.
Was it?
300.
Yeah.
Superman and named it after the Jonestown
massacre, which is a little tongue in
cheek thing, but, uh.
Yeah, I mean, he was definitely like a punk
rock guy, right um.
Yeah.
Uh, but, uh, yeah, anyways, there's,
there's, uh, yeah, a lot, a lot to be
learned from Mark.
And I feel like, you know, a lot of, you
know, hunting without getting too broey
I feel like hunting back-country hunting
has got a little broey in some ways, and I, I
don't really necessarily like that about it, but.
I agree.
There is a physical element that I really
enjoy about, uh, about pushing my limits just
in hunting, you know.
So if we're going to do a late season hunt in,
you know, for us, you know, late season, it
might be mid November and it's down, you
know, zero degrees Fahrenheit to 30 degrees.
Um, and you're off, you know, doing a 15,
15 mile, you know, in the mountain trek.
Um, and it's difficult and, you know,
that's, there is some satisfaction that comes
with like accomplishing something like that.
And I enjoy that part of it and not, not in
a, not in a sense that I really care what other
people think about it.
It's a personal thing.
It's a very, very personal.
And, uh, and I think that, you know, so
there is, there is, um, something like
some comparable element to climbing as
there is to hunting.
Yeah, I agree.
And, you know, you mentioned something when
we were talking earlier about introverts and
extroverts, and you said that, uh, you know, a
lot of content creators, uh, you've been finding
the ones that you've been dealing with or
in your opinion are probably more introverted
than extroverted.
I think we can all be both, I think.
But can you talk to that?
Yeah, i, uh, I would say that I'm an introvert
in that, you know, if I'm defining that is
I don't, I think that extroverts tend to
get energized by being around groups of people,
introverts tend to, uh, uh, have their energy
systems like taken away.
I like that analogy.
And for me, while I enjoy being in social,
social settings, it is draining for me, it is,
it is highly draining.
And I can only do so much of at any one given time.
Um, and most of the other content creators that I
know are the same way, um, which honestly kind
of surprised me that you would think that people
that, uh, are in front of cameras all the time
would be extroverts and life of the party
type personalities like gregarious.
And, and certainly some of them are.
Um, but, uh, I think people would be surprised
what people are, how, how many introverts are
in the content space.
Um, you know, and I'm speaking to that, to
the hunting world in particular, just people
that I know, um, that I've been around.
And I, I don't know why that is.
I really don't, but I find it
really fascinating.
There's something, there's something
that's very like intimate when I'm out
just self filming.
Um, it feels like I'm just talking to
a friend when I had the camera with me.
Like, it doesn't feel like I'm talking to
thousands of, you know, strangers on YouTube.
Um, and, uh, so it doesn't feel as though
I'm being social when I'm doing that.
But, um, yeah.
Anyways, interesting.
I don't know what it is, but there are definitely
a lot of introverts out there grading content.
Yeah.
I agree.
I, I would classify myself in the introvert
category based on that description of being
around people draining your energy, because
it definitely doesn't fill me up and it's
work, it's effort and I crave the mountains or
I crave the outdoors.
And when I'm out there, that's when
I'm at my best.
Yeah.
So, you know, there's, a lot of people will
look at some of the media that's out there.
They'll look at the content that you're
putting out and they'll want to do something
similar, even if it's just for their family and
friends, or maybe they want to film something
at a larger scale.
If you were to, uh, take out and self film your
own, just to self film yourself, what would
be essential equipment?
What would you want to bring without going
too heavy and sticking with the whole Mark
Twight philosophy?
Um, yeah.
That's that is, that's a good question.
Um, I mean, I'll tell you what I bring.
Usually I have at least like a high-end like
camcorder that I use, um, as my primary camera
and then I'll have, uh, at least two, usually
two other cameras, like a point of view camera,
and then a little, we have this little, uh,
uh, camera that I use for like motion shots.
And that works out pretty well for me.
Um, I'd say that, you know, you can, we get
a lot of questions about camera equipment
and you can, you can go really fancy.
I mean, when we go out with a film crew,
we have a lot fancier equipment that we
use, camera equipment.
But you don't, you don't need fancy equipment
to tell a good story.
You can just use, I mean, you could
even use a GoPro.
The, uh, the thing that most people, I
think overemphasize is equipment and they
undervalue story and.
Right.
Yeah.
And the reason people, if you were to ask,
like why, you know, just somebody out
there, like, why do you like this person?
Like, why do you like Steven Rinella?
Why do you like MeatEater?
It's because they like Steve, right?
They like Steve and yeah, the, the, the
cinematography and the music and the
editing is like, it's, it's good right.
I'm not saying it's bad, but it's the
personalities of the people you're watching
that you're drawn to.
Um, so, yeah, focus on the story, focus on
making it personable, making it interesting
and making it unique.
Um, and, uh, I'd say, you know, don't try
and copy somebody else necessarily, try
and figure out like what your voice is.
And that takes a lot of trial and error.
I actually, before we even started filming
years, years prior, I had taken a little
tiny camera out and tried to sell film.
And I just remember it felt so awkward and it
was just garbage, man.
I just remember going back and looking
at my video clips, thinking this is awful.
Like you're never going to, you're never
going to do this.
Like, there's one thing I can guarantee
you'll never do, it's make hunting content.
And you got a whole ton of them out
now, don't you?
Yeah, yeah, yeah, no, it's, it's definitely,
I was wrong about that.
So.
Yeah.
And they're fantastic.
Are you doing any of the editing yourself
or do you have other people helping with that?
So, uh, we do it all in house.
My, my business partner, Jason does all that.
So the guy that I had the beer with, um, he's, he
actually self filmed and is in some content now.
He's always been behind the camera,
but we've been pushing him to get out in
front of the camera.
He's a great guy.
Um, and so he does all of our, uh,
all of our editing.
We, we do it, we used to do a lot of it together.
Um, but now we've kind of, because we've gotten
busier and bigger, we've kind of just distributed
the, the roles and responsibilities a lot.
So he does pretty much everything on
the editing side now.
And I will join him in the editing bay, um,
occasionally, but it's pretty much all him.
Wow, I mean, it's really, I mean, you're talking
about the stop motion.
Are you watching like the, uh, the star
is going over ahead or motion graphics
tracing over top of the ridgeline.
Like there's a lot of work that's gone into
these videos that, uh, that you guys are making.
Yeah, absolutely.
And then when we do motion graphics, I've,
you know, a friend of mine named Conrad,
he's a really talented motion graphics guy.
So we, we, we definitely pull in for our
bigger film pieces.
We try and make them, uh, visually appealing
and have a cinematic element to them as well.
Um, and some of that too, is to make them
appealing to people that aren't into hunting.
Yeah.
I think that's, I think that's a huge
point right there.
Yeah.
I think, I think you're really, you're, you're
broadening the horizon of what hunting is to
people who otherwise are used to the old grip and
grin type type shows.
And you might be introducing a whole new
generation of people who wouldn't otherwise
want, want to be interested in hunting.
I think that's a really smart thing that
you guys are doing.
Yeah.
Thank you.
We, we try and some, certainly some of the
more, some of the, the most like valued feedback
that I've received is from people that do
not hunt, but they have watched like our, our
film about the Frank Church Wilderness,
the Last Wild Places series about the Frank.
And they're like, man, that was a
cool adventure.
I don't even hunt, but that sounds like
something I might be interested in doing
or thanks for sharing that, that trip.
Um, so yeah.
That's really cool.
And then audio, we talked with the video.
Audio is obviously very important.
Yes.
Are you bringing separate microphones
or are you just using the on-camera bikes or?
I use an onboard mic, uh, so, so when I'm
self filming, I have an onboard mic, um, that
sits on my camera and, uh, sometimes we will
use separate, um, w w if we have, like, for
bringing in other people, yes, we'll bring in, um,
separate mics as well.
And mic up occaisionally for interviews, but
it's a pain to bring in, you know, always be
wearing a mic and it's just not realistic.
So shotgun mics are pretty standard for us.
Yeah.
Like a little road pro plus or something
or something similar.
Exactly.
Yep.
Um, it depends on the camera, we have a few
different cameras.
So depending on which, which one, we have
kind of different, different mics that can
go on those cameras.
So we will bring in, you know, mics
to capture audio.
There are there have been, you know,
capturing good audio is, is also something
I didn't appreciate.
And I don't think a lot of like new
content creators really appreciate that audio can
really is, is a backbone of a content piece.
And so spending the time to get that audio
is really important.
That was something that stood out to me,
watching your stuff, that, that, that audio
work is something you guys obviously spent
a lot of attention to.
A ton, a ton.
Yeah.
And we've, we have gotten back home sometimes
and been like man, the audio from, you know,
this day and this day, and this day is garbage.
Like it was, the wind was the wind
noise was too much.
And that's a bummer because when you spend
all that time and your audio is garbage because
it leaves some holes in your, in your story
or your editing, you have to get creative.
But, um, yeah, and that's, again, that's not
something I understood.
And we got into this, you know, my, my
business partner, I'm fortunate to have him
because he, um, he understands sort of the
technical storytelling side of the film world.
I think we're a good balance in terms of
knowing what, uh, what the story we want
to tell and working together to sort of
weave that together.
Um, but his, his, I would say technical
and cinematic, uh, experience and knowledge
is far, far above mine.
Well, I don't think you guys are necessarily
monetizing the, um, this show, are you?
Like.
We, it's funny you mentioned, asked that.
We, we do some and not on others.
I mean, here's another, you want to real talk.
Monetization on YouTube, anybody who thinks you're
going to go out and just make a bunch of money
on ads on YouTube, like not going to happen.
Unless, unless, and until you hit that like 200,
300 million subscriber mark, then you can start
making some money on.
Totally.
On YouTube.
Uh, and you're getting like millions of views
and you're creating lots of videos, you
know, making a dozen, two dozen, even 3 dozen
videos and expecting those are going to make
you a lot of money.
Like this is not going to happen.
The YouTube ad revenue system is not set up as
an ecosystem for that to be a significant
amount of money.
Totally.
So.
W what I think is really clever at though, is it
like it'll highlight your kit and that'll highlight
your stuff, and it'll be showing it being used
in a real environment and in a real way.
And from a marketing perspective, although
it's not directly monetized, I think
that's a very, very smart approach
that you've taken.
Not only educating people and entertaining people,
but it's also serves as a marketing piece as well.
Well, I mean, to me, like brands are very
interesting thing.
Like what is a brand?
What is a brand that, you know, you're
wearing an Under Armour shirt right now right.
Right.
Um, and I'm not saying that you're in love with
Under Armour, but Under Armour has a really
interesting brand story.
And we are, we are all, all of us are, are, none
of us are impervious to being drawn to
brands because there's something about them
that, that we identify with or that we like in
some way, we may not be able to articulate it.
Well, you may not even understand it, but brands
speak to us and good brands who tell a story
about what, who they are and their values
and what they represent.
Those are the ones that I like personally, right.
If we.
Totally.
Just, if we didn't have an interesting uh, brand.
And I think we, we try very hard to have
a unique voice and have a unique brand.
We're just a company that made some game bags
and some knives and had nothing else interesting
to say, or didn't have anything else, there was
no backbone behind that.
I don't feel we would have made inroads the
way we, we have so far.
Um, and I don't do that as, um, duplicitous or
trying to trick anybody, but our content is a
way for us to share who we are and help people
understand and relate to us as a brand, right?
So it's a way for us to connect with people.
And that's one of the wonderful things
about YouTube.
It has, it is the great leveler, right?
You don't have to buy ad space or buy a
TV show to like tell people who you are.
The internet exists, YouTube exists.
It is yours to use, to communicate to
your, your audience.
However you see fit.
Um, And so for us, yes, content is we enjoy
doing it and there's oftentimes, uh, there
are multiple reasons why we might do it,
but paramount amongst those is trying to
communicate who we are and what we value and
what's important to us.
That's fantastic.
It's the people will purchase not necessarily
what the product is, but why the product is.
And I think Simon Sinek did a neat
little talk on that.
They kind of, I don't know if you've ever seen
that TED Talk he did.
No.
A talk, oh, it's an interesting one um.
Have to check it out.
Yeah.
Actually it, because it basically has spoke
in a much more eloquent way than I'm sure I
will, but it speaks to why people are drawn
to different things.
And you essentially just put that whole idea
into a nutshell there.
People will, people will get behind a
brand because they believe in what it is.
People buy Apple computers, not because
it's got a great monitor and a great processor
or whatever it is.
There's going to be other computers that
have better have better screens and better,
more memory, but they're buying into an ecosystem
and they're buying into a culture, they're
buying into, um, whatever Apple's motto is.
Think differently here.
Yeah.
Their motto, their motto isn't we make
great computers or we make a cool phone.
Right.
It's like yeah, think differently or
whatever it is, like.
Yeah, think differently.
Yeah.
No, I.
I, and I think about that.
Hit the nail on the head there.
Yeah.
And I, again I, I feel like it's the, you know,
Patagonia, a brand like love it or hate it.
That is a, that is a brand that is
recognizable and has a very loyal, hardcore
set of customers right.
And because they have, they have stayed true
to who they are and what they believe.
Um, and it's more than just a clothing
company writing.
Nobody thinks that Patagonia is just
a clothing company.
I don't, anyway, I don't want us to just be a
gear company, right.
Like I want us to be much more than that and idea.
I want people to our customers there,
there are a lot of our customers who are
probably just buying a product because
they liked the product and that's fine.
Sure.
But when I think about like, what do I want
our customers to think of when they're opening
up a set of game bags?
I don't want them to think about like, this
is a throwaway product.
I want them to think about, like this
represents adventure.
This represents food, meat, like all the
things that I care about.
It is, uh, it is a, um, an idea it's a metaphor.
It's not just a set of game bags.
And I want them to, you know, sort of understand
like all the reasons that we created a product
that traditionally it was a throwaway product.
It's, it's, you know, it is purpose built for
people that are trying to, um, go out and find
their own adventure, whatever that looks like.
And so, sounds very simple.
I, you know, I'm not saying we have it
figured out, but that is what we, how I
think about branding and, and marketing and
just like the way we, why, why do we do, why
do we create content?
Um, uh, and how do we tell our
story as a company?
Well, you're doing a fantastic job with it.
If we were to switch gears a little bit and
talk a little bit about gear, you're going out
on a mountain hunt.
You're going light, you're going fast.
Um, I'm sure there's times you've gotten
up there and you've regretted not bringing
certain things cause you'd be a heck of a
lot more comfortable, but what would be
some, uh, you want on a multi-day hunt?
What are, what are some necessities that you
just can't live without?
Uh, good question.
Um, you know, I'm, I'm one of those people
that has spreadsheets for each hunt I go on.
So like archery mule deer, archery elk,
um, uh, I, I, so yeah, so I'm packing
pretty, pretty light.
Um, you know, the basics of like good backpack,
good boots are, I'd say like pretty, those
were like the, in my like hierarchy of
gear needs, like boots are right at the top.
Um, I don't always take a tent, um, but usually
take a sleeping bag and a pad to sleep on
because sleep, getting decent amount of sleep is
really important for my like performance and my
ability to think clearly.
Um, and then beyond that, you know, I, I usually
take a stove for food.
Not always, sometimes I'll just eat cold, cold
meals or take meals that don't require hot water.
Um, I rarely leave without coffee because
I'm addicted to caffeine.
Um, so for all the lightweight, lightweight
talk that I do, um, I usually don't leave
home without some, some, uh, some little
coffee packets um.
Yeah.
So yeah, boots bag, uh, just normal stuff, man.
Normal backpacking gear, nothing, nothing fancy.
I don't take a leatherman, I don't
take a multi-tool.
Um, I try not to take anything that doesn't
have, uh, at least a couple of uses.
It's not always doable, but I just try and
make due with as little as I can and still
be like comfortable.
So I don't like going hungry.
That's the other thing is like, I don't like
starving out there and I, um, I'm not, I'm
not a particularly, um, 6'2", 180, uh, fairly
like thin dude, but like I eat like I'm a
lot bigger than that.
So, uh, I I'd probably take sometimes a little
more food that I need to, but, uh, depending
on the length of the hunt, I'm okay carrying
an extra half a pound of food if that means
I'm not sitting up there wishing I had more.
Um, and then I, you know, I rarely, uh,
most mountain hunts.
I pretty much always take a tripod usually
cause I'm filming.
But also because I, I always, uh, especially
for like deer hunting, uh, but pretty much
every, every kind of hunting, I prefer
to glass with my binoculars on my tripod,
as much as I can.
And I just, you just catch so much
more game that way.
Deer, elk, you know, whatever sheep, goats,
like bedded down that you might not see otherwise.
So, um, I carry a few items that I consider
sort of important hunting items like
that, um, that you could probably, some people
might say you could do without, but I think
it's pretty important.
You bringing a spotting scope as well, or
just using the bino's for all your work?
Spotting scope if I'm hunting mule
deer, for sure.
Um, I don't, you know, elk, elk are, are kind of
big and easy to see and I can, uh, I'm not, I'm not
much of a trophy hunter when it comes to elk.
I like shooting big elk um, but I am for deer,
I tend to trophy hunt.
And so I like to know what I'm
looking at before I dive in after it.
So spotting scope for deer, um, and
depends on the trip.
So sometimes I'll take a spotting scope sometimes
I'll just take a bigger set of binocular.
So last year we did like a backpack hunt that
was, you know, I don't know, 11 miles in 5,000
vertical feet to get through our high camp.
So I was really thinking pretty hard
about my gear choices.
Um, took a hot tent.
So I had a collapsible titanium stove,
but I didn't take a canister fuel stove.
I just took a, uh, titanium cup to
heat up my water on.
Um, so, so made some sacrifices there.
I also didn't take a spotting scope,
wish I would have.
Um, but ended up taking a.
What were you hunting on that one?
Mule deer.
Mule deer on that one.
Okay.
Yeah.
Uh, rutting mule deer in that one and, uh,
you know, there's, uh, I ended up shooting, uh,
like getting a nice buck, but there were a couple
of deer, like off of the distance I was like
really nice frame bucks.
Um, but it was, they were far enough away
where it's like, I'm not going to go after
that, unless if it's like a giant two point
and I just couldn't tell through my bino's kind of
what I was dealing with.
Um.
Right.
So yeah, anyways, sometimes I take a
spotter and some, if that particular trip I
just decided I'm like, it's not, I, I can
deal with a 12x bino's on a tripod and leave
the spotter at home.
And I wish it had a spotter, but I didn't
regret it when we were hiking in cause that
was, it was helacious.
Right, totally.
Yeah.
I love it.
Is there anything else that we should
be talking about?
Is there anything that we've kind
of left out here?
Um, I don't, I don't think so.
Nothing about me.
I mean, at some point I'd love to learn more
about you and uh, some point I need to yeah,
pick your brain about hunting and Canada.
Cause it's on my list and I've never done
it, but we can do that another time.
Yeah.
I, I think, uh, I think maybe we should have
another podcast and we can talk about hunting.
Sounds great.
Yeah.
As soon as we open up these borders here and
we can have some free travel back and forth and
uh, have you up here and we'll do some hunting.
Yeah.
I heard you guys might be opening up your borders.
Did I see that correctly?
Yeah.
What'd they say?
Fully vaccinated individuals can come on
in, something like that.
Yeah.
Well, anyways.
Yeah.
It's on a Canada's, I love, I'm a huge fan
of Canada and I would love to get up there
and do some hunting at some point, especially
you guys have giant mule deer and as a
deer junkie, I've got my eyeball on that.
Well, thank you very much.
There's actually a number of other things
that I'd love to chat about, but I've taken
a lot of your time and you've got your family
there and I don't want to take up too much more.
Maybe we'll look at doing a part two on another,
another day, but thank you very much for being
on this Silvercore Podcast, Brad, I really
I've really enjoyed the conversation, Travis
and, uh, honored to be on it and I appreciate
you having me on.