1 00:00:05,083 --> 00:00:07,333 Welcome to The Emerging Biotech Leader, 2 00:00:07,333 --> 00:00:08,666 where we help biotech leaders 3 00:00:08,666 --> 00:00:10,625 maximize the value of their therapeutics 4 00:00:10,625 --> 00:00:12,666 from clinical development to product launch. 5 00:00:12,875 --> 00:00:14,041 We’re your hosts, 6 00:00:14,041 --> 00:00:15,083 I'm Kim Kushner. 7 00:00:15,083 --> 00:00:16,750 And I'm Ramin Farhood. 8 00:00:16,750 --> 00:00:17,541 We are here to help 9 00:00:17,541 --> 00:00:20,166 you navigate the pitfalls of the biotech industry 10 00:00:20,166 --> 00:00:21,791 and illuminate the path forward. 11 00:00:21,875 --> 00:00:23,666 For those in the gene therapy space, 12 00:00:23,666 --> 00:00:24,875 you've probably heard of him. 13 00:00:24,875 --> 00:00:28,250 Dr. Suku Nagendran is quite the household name. 14 00:00:28,250 --> 00:00:31,916 Starting his career practicing internal medicine in Arizona, 15 00:00:31,916 --> 00:00:34,625 he joined the industry in big names, 16 00:00:34,625 --> 00:00:36,875 like Pfizer, DSI, Quest Diagnostics, 17 00:00:36,875 --> 00:00:39,041 before the leap into biotech. 18 00:00:39,041 --> 00:00:42,291 He was the chief medical officer of AveXis gene therapies. 19 00:00:42,291 --> 00:00:45,125 He's now the president of R and D at Jaguar Gene Therapies 20 00:00:45,125 --> 00:00:47,791 and he's serving on boards across the industry. 21 00:00:47,791 --> 00:00:49,500 Suku, welcome to the podcast. 22 00:00:49,500 --> 00:00:52,375 To get us started, we wanna hear more about AveXis. 23 00:00:52,375 --> 00:00:54,708 It's the darling of the industry 24 00:00:54,708 --> 00:00:56,166 and you've had a great experience there. 25 00:00:56,166 --> 00:00:57,583 Can you tell us more about it? 26 00:00:57,583 --> 00:00:59,416 Thank you, Kim, for this invitation 27 00:00:59,416 --> 00:01:01,166 to talk to you all about my experience 28 00:01:01,166 --> 00:01:03,250 in the world of biotech and gene therapy. 29 00:01:04,291 --> 00:01:07,291 Before I get into AveXis, what I'd like to start by saying 30 00:01:07,291 --> 00:01:10,166 is that I wake up every day and pinch myself 31 00:01:10,166 --> 00:01:12,833 for now being considered an expert in gene therapy, 32 00:01:12,833 --> 00:01:15,166 given that my background is internal medicine 33 00:01:15,166 --> 00:01:17,958 and I always considered myself a country doc. 34 00:01:17,958 --> 00:01:21,416 So as you highlighted, I've spent almost 24 years now 35 00:01:21,416 --> 00:01:24,625 in the pharma biotech diagnostic sector. 36 00:01:24,625 --> 00:01:27,250 And during that course of my career 37 00:01:27,250 --> 00:01:31,583 is when I ran into Sean Nolan, who was at Reata with me, 38 00:01:31,583 --> 00:01:33,666 which is also pretty well-known biotech. 39 00:01:33,666 --> 00:01:37,083 And it's that connection that actually took me to AveXis. 40 00:01:37,083 --> 00:01:40,500 So in 2015, when I was at Quest Diagnostics 41 00:01:40,500 --> 00:01:42,333 heading the medical organization 42 00:01:42,333 --> 00:01:44,375 and actually being quite happy and satisfied 43 00:01:44,375 --> 00:01:46,916 with what I was doing, Sean calls me up 44 00:01:46,916 --> 00:01:49,458 and says, Hey, you know, I just became CEO 45 00:01:49,458 --> 00:01:51,291 of this company called AveXis, 46 00:01:51,291 --> 00:01:56,291 and you have to go talk to Jerry Mendell 47 00:01:56,666 --> 00:01:58,708 and Brian Kaspar at Nationwide Children's Hospital, 48 00:01:58,708 --> 00:02:01,333 because he thought that they had something 49 00:02:01,333 --> 00:02:03,000 that could be transformative. 50 00:02:03,000 --> 00:02:06,250 So I went out to Nationwide Children's Hospital 51 00:02:06,250 --> 00:02:08,791 in Columbus, Ohio, looked at the data, 52 00:02:08,791 --> 00:02:10,291 looked at their early animal data, 53 00:02:10,291 --> 00:02:12,166 as well as the data that they had from the clinic 54 00:02:12,166 --> 00:02:13,291 in a horrible disease 55 00:02:13,291 --> 00:02:15,791 called spinal muscular atrophy type 1, 56 00:02:15,791 --> 00:02:17,958 and I was blown away. 57 00:02:17,958 --> 00:02:19,708 The one-to-one translation 58 00:02:19,708 --> 00:02:22,375 of the preclinical work into the clinic, 59 00:02:22,375 --> 00:02:25,083 and the fact that this was a devastating disease, 60 00:02:25,083 --> 00:02:27,458 and the fact that I had never seen this kind 61 00:02:27,458 --> 00:02:31,041 of data translation from the animal into the human 62 00:02:31,041 --> 00:02:33,416 gave me this gut feeling 63 00:02:33,416 --> 00:02:35,833 that this could eventually become a cure. 64 00:02:35,833 --> 00:02:38,375 So on my way out, when I left the Nationwide, 65 00:02:38,375 --> 00:02:41,291 I called Sean Nolan, and I said, “I'm in.” 66 00:02:41,291 --> 00:02:43,875 "I'm more than happy to join you as chief medical officer 67 00:02:43,875 --> 00:02:45,708 because I think we can do something magical 68 00:02:45,708 --> 00:02:47,916 and transformative for patients." 69 00:02:47,916 --> 00:02:48,750 Incredible. 70 00:02:48,750 --> 00:02:51,125 So was it the data that really made you decide 71 00:02:51,125 --> 00:02:51,916 to take the leap? 72 00:02:51,916 --> 00:02:54,166 It sounds like a lot of people told you not to go 73 00:02:54,166 --> 00:02:55,833 to AveXis at the early days, 74 00:02:55,833 --> 00:02:57,708 a lot of your mentors and people you trusted. 75 00:02:57,708 --> 00:03:00,041 What made you decide to move over? 76 00:03:00,041 --> 00:03:01,291 It wasn't just the data. 77 00:03:01,291 --> 00:03:04,125 It is the translation of the data. 78 00:03:04,125 --> 00:03:07,208 So what I'm talking about is that the Delta 7 mouse model 79 00:03:07,208 --> 00:03:10,291 had significant death rates at 14 days. 80 00:03:10,291 --> 00:03:12,875 And the fact that these mice lived quite long, 81 00:03:12,875 --> 00:03:15,833 and on top of that, the fact that in the human beings 82 00:03:15,833 --> 00:03:18,541 that they had actually dosed the first six children 83 00:03:18,541 --> 00:03:21,125 were doing things that were not expected. 84 00:03:21,125 --> 00:03:22,916 This gave me significant hope. 85 00:03:22,916 --> 00:03:25,083 And yes, many people, including folks 86 00:03:25,083 --> 00:03:27,583 at the company I was working for, said, "Hey, 87 00:03:27,583 --> 00:03:30,291 you're gonna take a very big risk in going to a startup 88 00:03:30,291 --> 00:03:32,291 that is still not that well-funded." 89 00:03:32,291 --> 00:03:35,166 But something told me based on my prior experiences 90 00:03:35,166 --> 00:03:36,750 in drug development, 91 00:03:36,750 --> 00:03:39,666 this gene therapy program could really transform life. 92 00:03:39,666 --> 00:03:43,250 So I had the confidence not only in what I had seen 93 00:03:43,250 --> 00:03:44,833 from Jerry Mendell's work, 94 00:03:44,833 --> 00:03:47,041 but also I had confidence in Sean. 95 00:03:47,041 --> 00:03:49,000 Because Sean Nolan historically 96 00:03:49,000 --> 00:03:52,250 had done some very interesting work 97 00:03:52,250 --> 00:03:54,500 in other disease states in biotech. 98 00:03:54,500 --> 00:03:57,125 And I felt that the team, if it came together, 99 00:03:57,125 --> 00:03:59,083 could really make a difference for patients. 100 00:03:59,083 --> 00:04:00,833 So it was not just the translation of the data. 101 00:04:00,833 --> 00:04:02,916 It was also the leadership team that you were joining 102 00:04:02,916 --> 00:04:04,208 and the confidence and the people 103 00:04:04,208 --> 00:04:05,916 that you were doing it with that you really thought 104 00:04:05,916 --> 00:04:08,041 that something was special at AveXis. 105 00:04:08,041 --> 00:04:08,875 Absolutely. 106 00:04:08,875 --> 00:04:10,833 So that is something I would always highlight 107 00:04:10,833 --> 00:04:12,583 to anyone who wants to get into biotech 108 00:04:12,583 --> 00:04:13,625 and play a leadership role, 109 00:04:13,625 --> 00:04:16,291 which includes being a chief medical officer. 110 00:04:16,291 --> 00:04:18,750 That is that not only do you have to have confidence 111 00:04:18,750 --> 00:04:21,583 in yourself, you have to have self-awareness of your gaps, 112 00:04:21,583 --> 00:04:24,625 but you also have to have the right people around you. 113 00:04:24,625 --> 00:04:26,375 And I want to throw this quote in, 114 00:04:26,375 --> 00:04:29,541 which I always remind many of my team members 115 00:04:29,541 --> 00:04:31,833 and also even my superiors around me, 116 00:04:31,833 --> 00:04:35,458 that I consider myself a nobody who is now a somebody 117 00:04:35,458 --> 00:04:36,916 because of everybody around me. 118 00:04:36,916 --> 00:04:39,291 It is my team and the people around me 119 00:04:39,291 --> 00:04:41,875 who have helped me and others be successful. 120 00:04:41,875 --> 00:04:45,291 So on that note, Suku, tell us a little bit 121 00:04:45,291 --> 00:04:48,166 what it was like to be the CMO at AveXis, 122 00:04:48,166 --> 00:04:50,166 a small biotech company. 123 00:04:51,125 --> 00:04:55,125 I believe you were in the first maybe 30, 40 employees 124 00:04:55,125 --> 00:04:57,291 that the company has hired. 125 00:04:57,291 --> 00:04:59,208 And you were coming from big pharma. 126 00:04:59,208 --> 00:05:01,208 You were coming from diagnostic. 127 00:05:01,208 --> 00:05:02,416 All of a sudden, you were put 128 00:05:02,416 --> 00:05:06,166 into this fast-paced biotech gene therapy. 129 00:05:07,083 --> 00:05:08,458 Tell us a little bit more about that 130 00:05:08,458 --> 00:05:09,916 and how was it like to be a CMO, 131 00:05:09,916 --> 00:05:12,166 some of the challenges you had to face. 132 00:05:12,166 --> 00:05:15,541 So Ramin, that's a very good and important question 133 00:05:15,541 --> 00:05:17,875 because it does give many people insights 134 00:05:17,875 --> 00:05:22,083 into what it is like to start in an early-stage company. 135 00:05:22,083 --> 00:05:23,916 So I'll give you my first day. 136 00:05:23,916 --> 00:05:26,916 I get to Chicago, I walk into this tiny office, 137 00:05:26,916 --> 00:05:29,500 and Sean points me to a corner desk with a chair 138 00:05:29,500 --> 00:05:31,416 and says, "That's your office." 139 00:05:31,416 --> 00:05:32,583 So that was my first day. 140 00:05:32,583 --> 00:05:34,166 And I still remember thinking to myself 141 00:05:34,166 --> 00:05:37,541 at the end of the day, what did I sign up for, okay? 142 00:05:37,541 --> 00:05:41,041 Because I was actually I think in the first 15 employees, 143 00:05:41,041 --> 00:05:42,708 and I didn't really have much of a team. 144 00:05:42,708 --> 00:05:44,791 I had a couple of junior team members 145 00:05:44,791 --> 00:05:46,333 and there was a ton of work to do 146 00:05:46,333 --> 00:05:48,291 because the program was already 147 00:05:48,291 --> 00:05:50,291 in the early stages of the clinic 148 00:05:50,291 --> 00:05:52,500 and we were trying to execute on this program 149 00:05:52,500 --> 00:05:55,750 with Nationwide Children's Hospital, and at the same time, 150 00:05:55,750 --> 00:05:58,875 we were also planning to put together a regulatory package 151 00:05:58,875 --> 00:06:00,583 to try to move this program forward, 152 00:06:00,583 --> 00:06:02,791 given how the data was accumulating. 153 00:06:02,791 --> 00:06:04,500 And we were also talking 154 00:06:04,500 --> 00:06:07,041 about actually putting this company together 155 00:06:07,041 --> 00:06:10,291 and growing it rapidly but also taking it public. 156 00:06:10,291 --> 00:06:13,708 So what I would highlight is a chief medical officer 157 00:06:13,708 --> 00:06:17,250 and his or her role at a early-stage biotech 158 00:06:17,250 --> 00:06:19,500 can be multifold, okay? 159 00:06:19,500 --> 00:06:21,791 So you will have external facing roles 160 00:06:21,791 --> 00:06:23,458 and internal facing roles. 161 00:06:23,458 --> 00:06:24,625 External facing roles, 162 00:06:24,625 --> 00:06:27,166 especially if you're good at communicating data 163 00:06:27,166 --> 00:06:29,458 and talking to different types of audiences, 164 00:06:29,458 --> 00:06:32,208 you and the CEO will be out there quite a lot, 165 00:06:32,208 --> 00:06:34,166 which takes up all day. 166 00:06:34,166 --> 00:06:36,000 Then at two in the morning, 167 00:06:36,000 --> 00:06:38,375 you're running the internal operations, 168 00:06:38,375 --> 00:06:40,750 which usually include anything from preclinical 169 00:06:40,750 --> 00:06:43,333 to clinical development to clinical operations 170 00:06:43,333 --> 00:06:44,875 to planning commercialization, 171 00:06:44,875 --> 00:06:46,625 which includes medical affairs. 172 00:06:46,625 --> 00:06:50,125 So it is a lot of work, a lot of stress. 173 00:06:50,125 --> 00:06:53,125 And frankly, you have to be quite self-aware 174 00:06:53,125 --> 00:06:54,625 to manage through all of this. 175 00:06:54,625 --> 00:06:57,125 Otherwise, it becomes incredibly challenging 176 00:06:57,125 --> 00:06:59,250 to be successful in that kind of environment. 177 00:06:59,250 --> 00:07:01,375 And you have multiple different stakeholders 178 00:07:01,375 --> 00:07:04,083 that it also becomes very challenging 179 00:07:04,083 --> 00:07:06,000 for each one have a different need, 180 00:07:06,000 --> 00:07:09,791 each one have a different agenda, different focus area. 181 00:07:09,791 --> 00:07:14,166 How did you manage the board at that time when you joined? 182 00:07:14,166 --> 00:07:17,333 I believe you were tasked to pull together quickly 183 00:07:18,208 --> 00:07:21,125 a clinical development plan in a very short period of time 184 00:07:21,125 --> 00:07:22,541 and there was a lot of pressure on that. 185 00:07:22,541 --> 00:07:23,708 I remember those times. 186 00:07:23,708 --> 00:07:26,333 And how did you end up managing that? 187 00:07:26,333 --> 00:07:28,500 So that is another important question, Ramin. 188 00:07:28,500 --> 00:07:31,208 So before I went to AveXis, 189 00:07:31,208 --> 00:07:34,291 a good clinical development plan usually took up to a year 190 00:07:34,291 --> 00:07:35,416 in most companies, 191 00:07:35,416 --> 00:07:37,250 because obviously, I worked for bigger companies. 192 00:07:37,250 --> 00:07:40,166 My first day, Sean brings me into his office 193 00:07:40,166 --> 00:07:44,458 and says, "Look, I need a clinical development plan ASAP 194 00:07:44,458 --> 00:07:47,750 to present to the board, such that we can get funding 195 00:07:47,750 --> 00:07:49,625 and move this program forward rapidly." 196 00:07:49,625 --> 00:07:52,083 So essentially, I had 10 days or less. 197 00:07:52,083 --> 00:07:54,625 So guess who I called? I called you guys, SSI. 198 00:07:54,625 --> 00:07:56,916 I talked to Doug, I talked to Madhav, 199 00:07:56,916 --> 00:07:58,375 and we all got together 200 00:07:58,375 --> 00:08:01,166 at the local Parsippany New Jersey office 201 00:08:01,166 --> 00:08:03,208 with a crack team of neurologists 202 00:08:03,208 --> 00:08:05,833 and others who were really experienced in drug development, 203 00:08:05,833 --> 00:08:07,875 including biostatisticians. 204 00:08:07,875 --> 00:08:11,416 And frankly, I still cannot believe we pulled this off. 205 00:08:11,416 --> 00:08:12,458 We put together 206 00:08:12,458 --> 00:08:16,916 a full clinical development plan for a gene therapy program 207 00:08:16,916 --> 00:08:19,916 in a neurologic space, spinal muscular atrophy, 208 00:08:19,916 --> 00:08:22,083 within seven to 10 days. 209 00:08:22,083 --> 00:08:24,375 And then we took it back to Sean, 210 00:08:24,375 --> 00:08:27,083 the executive team and the board, and we presented it. 211 00:08:27,083 --> 00:08:30,958 And then most of it got executed when I was at AveXis. 212 00:08:30,958 --> 00:08:33,583 Now, the point I will make here again 213 00:08:33,583 --> 00:08:38,083 is, remember, I was not a neurologist, 214 00:08:38,083 --> 00:08:40,125 I was not an expert in gene therapy, 215 00:08:40,125 --> 00:08:43,291 and I was not an expert in spinal muscular atrophy. 216 00:08:43,291 --> 00:08:45,916 So what I did wasn't what I did. 217 00:08:45,916 --> 00:08:48,208 It was what the team did with me. 218 00:08:48,208 --> 00:08:50,291 That includes the SSI team. 219 00:08:50,291 --> 00:08:52,083 And then the rest became history 220 00:08:52,083 --> 00:08:55,291 because, as many of you know, this company flourished 221 00:08:55,291 --> 00:08:57,958 over a course of 2 1/2 years when we were there 222 00:08:57,958 --> 00:08:59,708 where the data that we generated 223 00:08:59,708 --> 00:09:00,958 in the clinic was incredible. 224 00:09:00,958 --> 00:09:03,083 This became a life-saving product. 225 00:09:03,083 --> 00:09:06,000 And we took this company public in February '16. 226 00:09:06,000 --> 00:09:08,458 And as all of you know, in April of '18, 227 00:09:08,458 --> 00:09:11,541 Novartis purchased us for $8.7 billion. 228 00:09:11,541 --> 00:09:15,541 So this is a experience that I consider one 229 00:09:15,541 --> 00:09:17,083 in many lifetimes. 230 00:09:17,083 --> 00:09:21,000 And it's what one would consider a unicorn biotech. 231 00:09:21,000 --> 00:09:23,791 So to kind of wrap this up, though, 232 00:09:23,791 --> 00:09:26,333 again, that plan could not have been put together 233 00:09:26,333 --> 00:09:29,666 if not for the team that worked with me from SSI and others. 234 00:09:29,666 --> 00:09:31,750 So a lot of compliments to everyone 235 00:09:31,750 --> 00:09:33,250 who worked on this program. 236 00:09:33,250 --> 00:09:36,458 Suku, tell us a little bit about the leadership team 237 00:09:36,458 --> 00:09:39,083 at AveXis, and the dynamic of the leadership team, 238 00:09:39,083 --> 00:09:42,416 and your interactions with the group there, 239 00:09:43,875 --> 00:09:45,625 and your takeaways. 240 00:09:45,625 --> 00:09:48,083 And how were you able to kinda overcome some 241 00:09:48,083 --> 00:09:51,375 of the challenges that you initially had? 242 00:09:51,375 --> 00:09:53,791 So I had a very diverse leadership team, 243 00:09:53,791 --> 00:09:55,541 people with very different experiences 244 00:09:55,541 --> 00:09:57,833 from clinical development to clinical operations 245 00:09:57,833 --> 00:10:00,708 to medical affairs to health economics, et cetera. 246 00:10:00,708 --> 00:10:04,375 And one cardinal rule that I had with all of you, 247 00:10:04,375 --> 00:10:07,541 which as, Ramin, you are part of my leadership team there, 248 00:10:07,541 --> 00:10:09,125 was that I would remind everybody, 249 00:10:09,125 --> 00:10:11,458 "Yes, I'm the chief medical officer, 250 00:10:11,458 --> 00:10:13,250 but there's a lot that I don't know. 251 00:10:13,250 --> 00:10:14,958 The reason I have all of you with me 252 00:10:14,958 --> 00:10:19,458 and I hired all of you is to make sure we do far better 253 00:10:19,458 --> 00:10:23,250 than myself leading this team and making decisions." 254 00:10:23,250 --> 00:10:26,041 I wanted all of you to be very candid with me, 255 00:10:26,041 --> 00:10:28,833 which I encouraged, and also challenge me appropriately 256 00:10:28,833 --> 00:10:31,083 where when I made certain decisions, 257 00:10:31,083 --> 00:10:34,000 if you all thought that was not the right decision, 258 00:10:34,000 --> 00:10:35,375 let's talk this through 259 00:10:35,375 --> 00:10:38,083 and then come up with the right solutions 260 00:10:38,083 --> 00:10:40,791 to move the program forward for patients. 261 00:10:40,791 --> 00:10:44,708 And I found that open, honest, transparent conversations 262 00:10:44,708 --> 00:10:47,208 with my leadership team paid dividends 263 00:10:47,208 --> 00:10:48,833 because it not only enabled us 264 00:10:48,833 --> 00:10:51,750 to be even better than what we were, 265 00:10:51,750 --> 00:10:54,875 but it also enabled us to execute on a program 266 00:10:54,875 --> 00:10:57,375 that was moving through at warp speed. 267 00:10:57,375 --> 00:11:00,958 So as all of you know, we delivered results every quarter 268 00:11:00,958 --> 00:11:04,375 for AveXis that I've never seen any other company do 269 00:11:04,375 --> 00:11:05,333 in my experience. 270 00:11:05,333 --> 00:11:08,333 And that was partially because of us working together 271 00:11:08,333 --> 00:11:10,375 in an open, honest, transparent manner, 272 00:11:10,375 --> 00:11:12,083 focusing on the patient. 273 00:11:12,083 --> 00:11:14,958 And I would also add that I encouraged, 274 00:11:14,958 --> 00:11:17,250 and Sean Nolan was very good at this, too, 275 00:11:17,250 --> 00:11:20,000 in bringing together diverse personalities 276 00:11:20,000 --> 00:11:22,875 where we could have disagreements in the room, right, 277 00:11:22,875 --> 00:11:25,500 to move a program or a decision forward, 278 00:11:25,500 --> 00:11:27,958 but then we left the room, we held hands together 279 00:11:27,958 --> 00:11:30,958 as a cross-functional team, and represented the company 280 00:11:30,958 --> 00:11:33,541 and the patients in the best manner possible. 281 00:11:33,541 --> 00:11:35,791 So disagreements in an appropriate venue 282 00:11:35,791 --> 00:11:37,291 was always encouraged. 283 00:11:37,291 --> 00:11:40,833 And this open, honest conversations are what led 284 00:11:40,833 --> 00:11:44,000 to the strength of the team, such that diverse expertise 285 00:11:44,000 --> 00:11:46,083 and experiences could come together 286 00:11:46,083 --> 00:11:49,250 and work together to advance a gene therapy program 287 00:11:49,250 --> 00:11:51,833 that was transformative for patients. 288 00:11:51,833 --> 00:11:53,333 And the open, honest conversation 289 00:11:53,333 --> 00:11:55,291 is not always an easy one to have 290 00:11:55,291 --> 00:11:57,458 because you never know how the other parties 291 00:11:57,458 --> 00:12:01,708 are going to react or if they agree with you or not. 292 00:12:01,708 --> 00:12:04,375 And it's not as easy as... 293 00:12:04,375 --> 00:12:06,416 You would think that it's an open and honest conversation, 294 00:12:06,416 --> 00:12:08,583 but the other parties may not quite see it that way. 295 00:12:08,583 --> 00:12:11,666 They may get defensive or they may have other thoughts. 296 00:12:11,666 --> 00:12:16,083 And how do you overcome at that point when people come back 297 00:12:16,083 --> 00:12:19,041 and say, "Oh, absolutely not, I fully disagree with you"? 298 00:12:19,916 --> 00:12:22,916 How do you manage that, especially at the executive level? 299 00:12:22,916 --> 00:12:25,166 So another important question, Ramin, right? 300 00:12:25,166 --> 00:12:28,500 So one thing, if you remember, is when we got together 301 00:12:28,500 --> 00:12:31,333 as a cross-functional leadership team within medical, 302 00:12:31,333 --> 00:12:33,750 we had disagreements, right? 303 00:12:33,750 --> 00:12:37,458 And eventually, sometimes I would tell all of you, 304 00:12:37,458 --> 00:12:39,583 "I've heard all of you," right? 305 00:12:39,583 --> 00:12:41,458 "And I have an opinion, 306 00:12:41,458 --> 00:12:44,000 and I am going to adjust some of my decisions, 307 00:12:44,000 --> 00:12:46,083 but now I am in the position 308 00:12:46,083 --> 00:12:48,000 where I have to make a decision." 309 00:12:48,000 --> 00:12:51,458 So actually, I would say this was one of my strengths. 310 00:12:51,458 --> 00:12:55,166 I, sadly, for the good of the company, 311 00:12:55,166 --> 00:12:58,208 never had a problem making a decision, okay? 312 00:12:58,208 --> 00:13:00,833 So I would make a decision and run with it 313 00:13:00,833 --> 00:13:03,416 because there were times we didn't have time 314 00:13:03,416 --> 00:13:05,125 to sit and pontificate. 315 00:13:05,125 --> 00:13:08,750 So what I'm getting at is, as a chief medical officer, 316 00:13:08,750 --> 00:13:10,666 you have to mature to a point 317 00:13:10,666 --> 00:13:12,625 where you're willing to encourage your leadership team 318 00:13:12,625 --> 00:13:15,458 to share their thoughts, share their disagreements, 319 00:13:15,458 --> 00:13:17,250 then you have to take all that information, 320 00:13:17,250 --> 00:13:19,125 process it and digest it, 321 00:13:19,125 --> 00:13:22,166 and then make decisions sometimes very quickly, 322 00:13:22,166 --> 00:13:24,250 especially when you're running clinical trials 323 00:13:24,250 --> 00:13:26,500 and you're dealing with patient safety. 324 00:13:26,500 --> 00:13:28,916 As you know, in gene therapy programs, 325 00:13:28,916 --> 00:13:30,875 there have been issues around patient safety. 326 00:13:30,875 --> 00:13:33,333 And we were a pioneer when it comes to AveXis. 327 00:13:33,333 --> 00:13:35,083 And there were a lot of things I saw 328 00:13:35,083 --> 00:13:36,291 from a safety standpoint 329 00:13:36,291 --> 00:13:37,708 that had to be appropriately managed. 330 00:13:37,708 --> 00:13:39,166 You had to get in front of them. 331 00:13:39,166 --> 00:13:41,833 Whether it was managing with appropriate therapeutics, 332 00:13:41,833 --> 00:13:45,708 wrap around with the principal investigator working 333 00:13:45,708 --> 00:13:48,375 on the program, using more prednisolone 334 00:13:48,375 --> 00:13:51,000 or immunomodulatory agents to manage the patients, 335 00:13:51,000 --> 00:13:53,875 these were all difficult decisions that were instinctive 336 00:13:53,875 --> 00:13:56,041 based on collective leadership feedback, 337 00:13:56,041 --> 00:13:58,708 where eventually my experience drove some of those decisions 338 00:13:58,708 --> 00:14:01,291 with the PI as to do what was right for the patient. 339 00:14:01,291 --> 00:14:04,458 So again, there is no cookbook answer 340 00:14:04,458 --> 00:14:06,208 to your question, Ramin, 341 00:14:06,208 --> 00:14:08,666 but I think there are many principles based 342 00:14:08,666 --> 00:14:09,875 on what I just said. 343 00:14:09,875 --> 00:14:11,500 'Cause again, you have to be confident 344 00:14:11,500 --> 00:14:14,083 and comfortable in yourself as a chief medical officer 345 00:14:14,083 --> 00:14:15,666 in having those open conversations 346 00:14:15,666 --> 00:14:16,583 with your leadership team, 347 00:14:16,583 --> 00:14:19,500 and then having the ability to make the right decisions 348 00:14:19,500 --> 00:14:22,166 that sometimes only retrospectively you know 349 00:14:22,166 --> 00:14:23,166 you made the right decision. 350 00:14:23,166 --> 00:14:26,041 And that teaches you for the future, okay? 351 00:14:26,041 --> 00:14:27,583 Great point about decision-making. 352 00:14:27,583 --> 00:14:29,791 And I think your earlier points 353 00:14:29,791 --> 00:14:32,500 kind of culminating some of this are around the need 354 00:14:32,500 --> 00:14:34,166 to have a really productive culture 355 00:14:34,166 --> 00:14:36,750 where you can have healthy pushback across the teams. 356 00:14:36,750 --> 00:14:40,083 And it sounds like there was also a deep sense of trust 357 00:14:40,083 --> 00:14:42,041 in your collaborative cross-functional partners 358 00:14:42,041 --> 00:14:43,625 and what their expertise was 359 00:14:43,625 --> 00:14:45,500 and how you could work together. 360 00:14:45,500 --> 00:14:47,916 And I definitely see that as a critical point 361 00:14:47,916 --> 00:14:49,083 in the clients that we're working with. 362 00:14:49,083 --> 00:14:50,666 But Suku, it sounds like that was part 363 00:14:50,666 --> 00:14:53,083 of the secret sauce that at AveXis in particular. 364 00:14:53,083 --> 00:14:53,916 No, absolutely, Kim. 365 00:14:53,916 --> 00:14:56,750 And I would also highlight that when you work 366 00:14:56,750 --> 00:15:00,083 with multiple biotech companies and customers, 367 00:15:00,083 --> 00:15:02,458 something many of these companies have to do is, 368 00:15:02,458 --> 00:15:04,708 and at a leadership level, is actually be self-aware 369 00:15:04,708 --> 00:15:06,958 and look within, and be open and honest 370 00:15:06,958 --> 00:15:09,125 when it comes to some of the gaps they may have 371 00:15:09,125 --> 00:15:10,875 and where they actually need help. 372 00:15:10,875 --> 00:15:13,791 Because many a time, I see companies fail 373 00:15:13,791 --> 00:15:14,875 because they don't do so 374 00:15:14,875 --> 00:15:16,708 and they're not honest with themselves. 375 00:15:16,708 --> 00:15:19,416 And this is why many a time I have reached out to SSI 376 00:15:20,250 --> 00:15:24,541 to bring you all in to be kind of the person on my other, 377 00:15:24,541 --> 00:15:27,458 as I say, the person on my shoulder who points out, 378 00:15:27,458 --> 00:15:29,125 "Hey, you have a problem here. 379 00:15:29,125 --> 00:15:30,333 You better pay attention to that. 380 00:15:30,333 --> 00:15:31,708 Hey, you have a problem here." 381 00:15:31,708 --> 00:15:32,958 'Cause sometimes, internally, 382 00:15:32,958 --> 00:15:34,541 they won't point that out to you. 383 00:15:34,541 --> 00:15:37,625 But people from SSI have been very courageous 384 00:15:37,625 --> 00:15:40,500 when it comes to working with me in pointing out those gaps 385 00:15:40,500 --> 00:15:42,666 and helping me sometimes address those gaps 386 00:15:42,666 --> 00:15:45,166 for the greater advancement of the company 387 00:15:45,166 --> 00:15:47,250 and our programs for patients. 388 00:15:47,250 --> 00:15:48,083 Right, absolutely. 389 00:15:48,083 --> 00:15:50,125 And I think one of the other secret sauce 390 00:15:50,125 --> 00:15:51,500 that you've brought up a few times, 391 00:15:51,500 --> 00:15:54,041 they were really the patients at AveXis. 392 00:15:54,041 --> 00:15:58,083 We were so laser-focused on these babies, right? 393 00:15:58,083 --> 00:16:00,208 At the time that we were coming to the market, 394 00:16:00,208 --> 00:16:02,791 there was just only one other product in the market. 395 00:16:02,791 --> 00:16:05,791 And these babies were basically dying 396 00:16:05,791 --> 00:16:07,125 before they were two years old. 397 00:16:07,125 --> 00:16:08,416 So I think the whole company, 398 00:16:08,416 --> 00:16:10,500 especially being such a small company, 399 00:16:10,500 --> 00:16:14,333 we were so much in touch and laser-focused on these babies, 400 00:16:14,333 --> 00:16:16,750 their parents, and what they go through, 401 00:16:16,750 --> 00:16:19,125 and our partnership with the advocacy group, 402 00:16:19,125 --> 00:16:22,666 that it translated to our everyday being 403 00:16:22,666 --> 00:16:24,416 and decision-making, 404 00:16:24,416 --> 00:16:30,000 which I think was also very, very unique at AveXis. 405 00:16:30,000 --> 00:16:31,791 Maybe one other question. 406 00:16:31,791 --> 00:16:35,125 During that time, what would you think was one 407 00:16:35,125 --> 00:16:39,041 of your best decision or the leadership best decision? 408 00:16:39,041 --> 00:16:40,958 And what would you consider to be not, 409 00:16:40,958 --> 00:16:44,625 maybe not such a smart decision looking back? 410 00:16:44,625 --> 00:16:46,375 What do you think those would be? 411 00:16:46,375 --> 00:16:48,916 So from a decision-making standpoint, 412 00:16:48,916 --> 00:16:51,416 it was the team that I built. 413 00:16:51,416 --> 00:16:54,041 Because I knew what I was good at. 414 00:16:54,041 --> 00:16:56,291 Thankfully, I had been in the industry long enough 415 00:16:56,291 --> 00:16:58,375 and I had taken a lot of punches, okay? 416 00:16:58,375 --> 00:16:59,291 So I had been involved 417 00:16:59,291 --> 00:17:02,875 with some mega drug development challenges. 418 00:17:02,875 --> 00:17:05,291 Some of them which were big pharma companies 419 00:17:05,291 --> 00:17:07,250 where it really makes you self-aware 420 00:17:07,250 --> 00:17:09,416 of what to look out for very early. 421 00:17:09,416 --> 00:17:12,041 So I was able to hire people in clinical development, 422 00:17:12,041 --> 00:17:14,541 clinical operations, and also, medical affairs, 423 00:17:14,541 --> 00:17:16,291 given how quickly this product was moving 424 00:17:16,291 --> 00:17:19,375 through the developmental life cycle to fill my gaps 425 00:17:19,375 --> 00:17:21,916 and to actually assist me in doing the work. 426 00:17:21,916 --> 00:17:25,458 'Cause I spent a lot of time during the day with Sean Nolan 427 00:17:25,458 --> 00:17:28,666 and others talking to investors, going to Wall Street, 428 00:17:28,666 --> 00:17:31,500 preparing for quarterly meetings, okay? 429 00:17:31,500 --> 00:17:34,750 Some of the mistakes I made during that period, 430 00:17:34,750 --> 00:17:39,750 which I still regret, is not taking time out for myself. 431 00:17:40,125 --> 00:17:43,958 That 2 1/2 years that I spent, I worked so hard 432 00:17:43,958 --> 00:17:45,833 where I never got any sleep, 433 00:17:45,833 --> 00:17:50,125 I had no time sometimes for my home, my family. 434 00:17:50,125 --> 00:17:53,333 Now, I was lucky that this was only a 2 1/2-year period, 435 00:17:53,333 --> 00:17:56,250 but frankly, it felt like I was doing this for 10 years 436 00:17:56,250 --> 00:17:59,875 by the time I exited the company after Novartis acquired us. 437 00:17:59,875 --> 00:18:01,750 So that's one thing I would remind anyone 438 00:18:01,750 --> 00:18:05,125 in a leadership role, including as a chief medical officer, 439 00:18:05,125 --> 00:18:10,041 eventually, when you go on and move on to another world, 440 00:18:10,041 --> 00:18:11,875 people are not going to put on my tombstone, 441 00:18:11,875 --> 00:18:14,125 "Hey, this guy worked for AveXis," right? 442 00:18:14,125 --> 00:18:16,458 It's really how your family remembers you 443 00:18:16,458 --> 00:18:18,208 and your close friends remember you. 444 00:18:18,208 --> 00:18:19,583 So this is part of reality. 445 00:18:19,583 --> 00:18:23,208 So I always remind people around me, career is great, 446 00:18:23,208 --> 00:18:25,791 but always remember there is much more to your life 447 00:18:25,791 --> 00:18:28,250 than just your career, okay? 448 00:18:28,250 --> 00:18:29,416 I think it's a really important point. 449 00:18:29,416 --> 00:18:33,000 And one of the other questions that Ramin 450 00:18:33,000 --> 00:18:36,333 and I have really wanted to dig into a little bit, actually, 451 00:18:36,333 --> 00:18:37,583 we weren't gonna ask this question 452 00:18:37,583 --> 00:18:38,666 with regard to your family, 453 00:18:38,666 --> 00:18:40,833 but would love to hear the perspective from your family 454 00:18:40,833 --> 00:18:42,625 as well as professionally. 455 00:18:42,625 --> 00:18:45,166 You've gotten a bit of a reputation for being a cowboy 456 00:18:45,166 --> 00:18:46,958 and taking some calculated risks 457 00:18:46,958 --> 00:18:48,000 and being really comfortable with that 458 00:18:48,000 --> 00:18:50,291 where many other people wouldn't be. 459 00:18:51,125 --> 00:18:53,125 How has that influenced the path that you've been on, 460 00:18:53,125 --> 00:18:53,958 the decisions you made, 461 00:18:53,958 --> 00:18:56,041 whether it was at AveXis or elsewhere? 462 00:18:56,041 --> 00:18:58,291 How has that influenced your family life 463 00:18:58,291 --> 00:19:00,291 and some of those connections? 464 00:19:00,291 --> 00:19:02,958 Most of what I've done in my career I could not have done 465 00:19:02,958 --> 00:19:06,250 without the support of my family and my wife, Ann. 466 00:19:06,250 --> 00:19:10,666 If she hadn't encouraged me to take this chance with AveXis, 467 00:19:10,666 --> 00:19:11,833 I probably would not have. 468 00:19:11,833 --> 00:19:13,250 'Cause as I said- 469 00:19:13,250 --> 00:19:15,125 So she's like a cowgirl, too, huh? 470 00:19:15,125 --> 00:19:16,750 Well, she has good instincts, right? 471 00:19:16,750 --> 00:19:18,833 I mean, you have to have a partner 472 00:19:18,833 --> 00:19:20,625 who keeps you grounded, right? 473 00:19:20,625 --> 00:19:24,916 So at Quest Diagnostics, as I said, I was very happy. 474 00:19:24,916 --> 00:19:28,041 I was making a good living and my career was set. 475 00:19:28,041 --> 00:19:29,833 And actually, even the CEO there 476 00:19:29,833 --> 00:19:31,875 was absolutely shocked when I left. 477 00:19:32,916 --> 00:19:36,208 But sometimes, as people say, you have instinct 478 00:19:36,208 --> 00:19:38,166 and you have to take a calculated risk. 479 00:19:38,166 --> 00:19:39,666 And you have a family, 480 00:19:39,666 --> 00:19:41,208 people around you have to support you. 481 00:19:41,208 --> 00:19:43,875 And I would say my wife, Ann, was very supportive. 482 00:19:43,875 --> 00:19:46,375 And frankly, it paid off, right? 483 00:19:46,375 --> 00:19:48,750 It paid off for patients. It paid off for the family. 484 00:19:48,750 --> 00:19:50,875 It paid off for my children, the three boys, 485 00:19:50,875 --> 00:19:52,500 who also have been very supportive. 486 00:19:52,500 --> 00:19:56,125 They have watched my career with absolute fascination 487 00:19:56,125 --> 00:19:59,833 and they still chuckle about the AveXis days, 488 00:19:59,833 --> 00:20:04,916 because obviously, that kind of experience, right, 489 00:20:04,916 --> 00:20:07,041 from a career standpoint, from a personal standpoint, 490 00:20:07,041 --> 00:20:10,208 and also what it allows you to do for the future for others, 491 00:20:10,208 --> 00:20:14,500 I think is remarkable, but it is a retrospective look. 492 00:20:14,500 --> 00:20:17,750 Now obviously, this may have not worked out. 493 00:20:17,750 --> 00:20:21,333 If the AveXis program and the company hadn't succeeded, 494 00:20:21,333 --> 00:20:22,833 people would have looked back at me and said, 495 00:20:22,833 --> 00:20:25,000 "Well, we told you so," right? 496 00:20:25,000 --> 00:20:26,666 But thankfully, that's not how it worked out. 497 00:20:26,666 --> 00:20:30,166 It actually enabled me to open my world to obviously go 498 00:20:30,166 --> 00:20:32,166 and work on multiple other gene therapy programs 499 00:20:32,166 --> 00:20:34,250 as an investor, as a board member. 500 00:20:34,250 --> 00:20:37,500 But frankly, financially, it also enabled me 501 00:20:37,500 --> 00:20:39,166 to be very philanthropic. 502 00:20:39,166 --> 00:20:41,333 Because one of the things I've been absolutely interested in 503 00:20:41,333 --> 00:20:43,250 is helping other people in other parts of the world 504 00:20:43,250 --> 00:20:45,250 where people are challenged economically. 505 00:20:45,250 --> 00:20:48,083 So there's a lot of good you can do once you succeed 506 00:20:48,083 --> 00:20:50,541 in your career, both from an emotional 507 00:20:50,541 --> 00:20:52,791 and a career standpoint, but also financially. 508 00:20:52,791 --> 00:20:55,291 So my collective conclusion here 509 00:20:55,291 --> 00:20:56,625 is there's a lot you can do, 510 00:20:56,625 --> 00:20:58,875 but you cannot do it by yourself. 511 00:20:58,875 --> 00:21:01,166 If you have a family or a partner and children, 512 00:21:01,166 --> 00:21:03,666 they all, hopefully, are with you to support you 513 00:21:03,666 --> 00:21:05,208 and be there for you. 514 00:21:05,208 --> 00:21:09,583 And then in terms of the calculated risk-taking, 515 00:21:09,583 --> 00:21:12,583 tell us a little bit about that in terms of, 516 00:21:12,583 --> 00:21:15,333 it's clearly paid off that you've had the ability 517 00:21:15,333 --> 00:21:19,041 to walk into conversations with your board, 518 00:21:19,041 --> 00:21:20,541 the rest of your executive team, 519 00:21:20,541 --> 00:21:22,375 maybe say things that people didn't wanna hear, 520 00:21:22,375 --> 00:21:23,916 but things that they had to hear 521 00:21:23,916 --> 00:21:26,250 or that were really strong convictions for you. 522 00:21:27,125 --> 00:21:29,333 Tell us about how you've gone about that 523 00:21:29,333 --> 00:21:31,083 and maybe advice for others 524 00:21:31,083 --> 00:21:32,500 in terms of when it's appropriate 525 00:21:32,500 --> 00:21:34,000 or how to appropriately do it. 526 00:21:34,000 --> 00:21:36,291 And now, you just mentioned you're a board member 527 00:21:36,291 --> 00:21:37,625 for a number of organizations, 528 00:21:37,625 --> 00:21:40,208 so I'm sure people are having those conversations with you. 529 00:21:40,208 --> 00:21:42,500 How do you want those conversations to go 530 00:21:42,500 --> 00:21:44,541 if they're going to? 531 00:21:44,541 --> 00:21:48,166 Well, so, I mean, I have evolved over the years 532 00:21:48,166 --> 00:21:52,166 where I've always decided, even as a young physician, 533 00:21:52,166 --> 00:21:54,250 to follow my true north, 534 00:21:54,250 --> 00:21:57,041 and that is really doing what you believe in. 535 00:21:57,041 --> 00:22:01,125 So when I'm in situations from the time I remember 536 00:22:01,125 --> 00:22:03,916 as a physician in my career, as it has evolved, 537 00:22:03,916 --> 00:22:07,166 I've always made up my mind to do the right thing. 538 00:22:07,166 --> 00:22:09,250 So whether it comes to making decisions 539 00:22:09,250 --> 00:22:12,791 on organizational structure, clinical development plans, 540 00:22:12,791 --> 00:22:15,791 patient safety, those are critical features to me, 541 00:22:15,791 --> 00:22:18,500 and I will not allow anything to get in the way 542 00:22:18,500 --> 00:22:20,333 of things that I believe. 543 00:22:20,333 --> 00:22:24,291 And I have always decided that if I'm part of a team 544 00:22:24,291 --> 00:22:28,583 that I feel I don't believe in their edict 545 00:22:28,583 --> 00:22:30,291 and I don't believe in what they're doing, 546 00:22:30,291 --> 00:22:32,291 I will have a open conversation. 547 00:22:32,291 --> 00:22:34,458 And if it's not for me, I will walk away 548 00:22:34,458 --> 00:22:37,083 'cause then I do not wanna be a part of that. 549 00:22:37,083 --> 00:22:39,250 And that has always worked in my favor 550 00:22:39,250 --> 00:22:42,250 because many people who may find that challenging 551 00:22:42,250 --> 00:22:44,666 when somebody's very honest and open, 552 00:22:44,666 --> 00:22:46,958 eventually appreciate that openness. 553 00:22:46,958 --> 00:22:50,791 Because most of the time, it works in favor of the program 554 00:22:50,791 --> 00:22:53,083 or whatever you're trying to achieve for patients. 555 00:22:53,083 --> 00:22:55,625 'Cause remember, what all of us are doing in the world 556 00:22:55,625 --> 00:22:57,916 of biotech and pharma or diagnostics 557 00:22:57,916 --> 00:23:00,375 is we are trying to help patients, right? 558 00:23:00,375 --> 00:23:03,416 So if we don't keep that in mind and we forget that, 559 00:23:03,416 --> 00:23:06,250 eventually, not only do we hurt patients, 560 00:23:06,250 --> 00:23:09,083 but we hurt ourselves and we hurt our company. 561 00:23:09,083 --> 00:23:13,041 So this is something I kind of tell all my people around me, 562 00:23:13,041 --> 00:23:16,541 always remember your true north, do the right thing. 563 00:23:16,541 --> 00:23:19,416 It's much easier that way in the bigger scheme of things 564 00:23:19,416 --> 00:23:21,125 and towards the end of life. 565 00:23:21,125 --> 00:23:21,958 Right. 566 00:23:21,958 --> 00:23:23,958 Definitely, it comes back to your early point 567 00:23:23,958 --> 00:23:27,916 about the need for self-awareness not just in the skills 568 00:23:27,916 --> 00:23:29,541 and the things that you're really good at, 569 00:23:29,541 --> 00:23:31,708 but also in terms of what your true north is 570 00:23:31,708 --> 00:23:33,583 and how you really think about your role 571 00:23:33,583 --> 00:23:35,875 and things that you can and can't do in the industry. 572 00:23:35,875 --> 00:23:37,708 So it's really important point here. 573 00:23:38,625 --> 00:23:39,833 That's amazing. 574 00:23:39,833 --> 00:23:43,375 And I think the courage is the part 575 00:23:43,375 --> 00:23:45,625 that makes it really challenging to do that. 576 00:23:45,625 --> 00:23:48,041 A lot of us know what the right thing it is 577 00:23:48,041 --> 00:23:50,666 and we know exactly what we need to do. 578 00:23:50,666 --> 00:23:55,000 But that extra step to have the courage to speak your mind 579 00:23:55,000 --> 00:23:59,625 and telling to your leadership, to the board, to the CEO, 580 00:23:59,625 --> 00:24:04,041 it takes a unique personality to be able to do that. 581 00:24:04,041 --> 00:24:06,375 And thanks for sharing that, too. 582 00:24:06,375 --> 00:24:08,416 That takes a lot to be able to do that. 583 00:24:08,416 --> 00:24:11,166 To do some of what I just said, 584 00:24:11,166 --> 00:24:15,333 you also have to take the risk that you may get fired. 585 00:24:16,750 --> 00:24:20,083 Not every board nor every boss of yours 586 00:24:20,083 --> 00:24:21,625 is going to want to address some 587 00:24:21,625 --> 00:24:23,791 of these things you may put on the table. 588 00:24:23,791 --> 00:24:25,458 And obviously, there has to be a certain way 589 00:24:25,458 --> 00:24:26,666 to communicate these things 590 00:24:26,666 --> 00:24:29,666 that are politically appropriate as well. 591 00:24:29,666 --> 00:24:31,875 But then there are situations 592 00:24:31,875 --> 00:24:35,333 where you may want to thump the table with your fist 593 00:24:35,333 --> 00:24:38,458 because sometimes you need to get people's attention. 594 00:24:38,458 --> 00:24:41,875 And I've done that more than a few times in my career, okay? 595 00:24:41,875 --> 00:24:44,291 And I do that, especially when I feel people 596 00:24:44,291 --> 00:24:47,583 are not hearing me and I feel that it is critical 597 00:24:47,583 --> 00:24:50,583 for patients and patients' lives that I step up 598 00:24:50,583 --> 00:24:51,833 and stick my neck out. 599 00:24:51,833 --> 00:24:53,333 So I will always remind people 600 00:24:53,333 --> 00:24:55,750 who want to be chief medical officers, 601 00:24:55,750 --> 00:24:58,000 you have to do the right thing by your patients. 602 00:24:58,000 --> 00:25:00,666 It doesn't matter what the share price is 603 00:25:00,666 --> 00:25:03,375 or what you're trying to do for the board. 604 00:25:03,375 --> 00:25:05,291 It's the patient first, okay? 605 00:25:05,291 --> 00:25:07,458 As long as you remember that, you will be successful. 606 00:25:07,458 --> 00:25:11,041 Tell us a little bit about talking 607 00:25:11,041 --> 00:25:13,250 about the patients and your career. 608 00:25:13,250 --> 00:25:16,416 And obviously, you have been incredibly successful 609 00:25:16,416 --> 00:25:20,125 and have launched a lot of products, have also mentored 610 00:25:20,125 --> 00:25:24,166 and hired many people in our industry. 611 00:25:24,166 --> 00:25:27,791 And I believe recently you have established an award 612 00:25:27,791 --> 00:25:30,541 for translational science. 613 00:25:30,541 --> 00:25:32,750 Tell us a little bit about that. 614 00:25:32,750 --> 00:25:36,083 What is that award? Why was this so important to you? 615 00:25:37,375 --> 00:25:39,875 And what's your goal there? 616 00:25:39,875 --> 00:25:42,625 Yeah, thanks for asking about that award, Ramin. 617 00:25:42,625 --> 00:25:45,791 So this was an award my wife, Ann, and I established 618 00:25:45,791 --> 00:25:48,625 at the American Society of Gene & Cell Therapy. 619 00:25:48,625 --> 00:25:52,458 It's called the Jerry Mendell Clinical Translational Award. 620 00:25:52,458 --> 00:25:53,958 So you know Dr. Jerry Mendell, 621 00:25:53,958 --> 00:25:56,000 Nationwide Children's Hospital. 622 00:25:56,000 --> 00:25:59,500 I am a huge fan of his, he doesn't know this, because he 623 00:25:59,500 --> 00:26:02,125 and I used to have some very interesting conversations 624 00:26:02,125 --> 00:26:05,416 when I was at AveXis as CMO. 625 00:26:05,416 --> 00:26:09,541 But I took my hat off to him when he was the physician 626 00:26:09,541 --> 00:26:11,750 who dosed the first child 627 00:26:11,750 --> 00:26:14,666 in the spinal muscular atrophy type 1 trial 628 00:26:14,666 --> 00:26:16,791 without prednisolone prep, 629 00:26:16,791 --> 00:26:20,208 where he gave this child a trillion viral particles. 630 00:26:20,208 --> 00:26:23,541 And that is what led to the history of AveXis 631 00:26:23,541 --> 00:26:25,208 and the success of ZOLGENSMA. 632 00:26:26,125 --> 00:26:29,666 And to me, Dr. Mendell has been at this field 633 00:26:29,666 --> 00:26:31,291 for 40 years-plus. 634 00:26:31,291 --> 00:26:32,833 So when I left AveXis, 635 00:26:32,833 --> 00:26:35,666 and I was in a financial position to do so, 636 00:26:35,666 --> 00:26:37,708 I felt I had to honor him in some way. 637 00:26:37,708 --> 00:26:41,833 So this was one way for me to emphasize to the community 638 00:26:41,833 --> 00:26:43,625 of gene and cell therapy 639 00:26:43,625 --> 00:26:46,166 that you need brave translational physicians 640 00:26:46,166 --> 00:26:48,125 who will take the animal data 641 00:26:48,125 --> 00:26:51,125 and then be willing to work with patients, 642 00:26:51,125 --> 00:26:54,083 whether they're children or adults, to make that difference 643 00:26:54,083 --> 00:26:55,625 when it comes to the clinic. 644 00:26:55,625 --> 00:26:58,708 And actually, ironically, the first recipient 645 00:26:58,708 --> 00:27:01,166 of that award was Dr. Jerry Mendell himself 646 00:27:01,166 --> 00:27:03,250 because the committee felt very strongly. 647 00:27:03,250 --> 00:27:04,333 By the way, I had nothing to do 648 00:27:04,333 --> 00:27:06,333 with the award being given to him, okay? 649 00:27:06,333 --> 00:27:08,416 So I'm completely unbiased. 650 00:27:08,416 --> 00:27:11,208 They felt this gentleman was incredible 651 00:27:11,208 --> 00:27:12,833 in what he has done in his career. 652 00:27:12,833 --> 00:27:16,333 And then the second winner was Dr. Kathy High, 653 00:27:16,333 --> 00:27:18,750 who is also a pioneer. And I have a lot of respect for her. 654 00:27:18,750 --> 00:27:21,583 And as y'all may know, she was president of R and D 655 00:27:21,583 --> 00:27:24,333 and the chief medical officer of Spark Therapeutics. 656 00:27:24,333 --> 00:27:27,291 So if you think about it, AveXis had ZOLGENSMA approved 657 00:27:27,291 --> 00:27:28,500 for SMA type 1 in SMA, 658 00:27:29,375 --> 00:27:30,625 and then you have Spark Therapeutics 659 00:27:30,625 --> 00:27:32,625 that had the other gene therapy approved 660 00:27:32,625 --> 00:27:34,208 for retinal dystrophy, right? 661 00:27:34,208 --> 00:27:36,375 Another rare, difficult-to-treat disease. 662 00:27:36,375 --> 00:27:40,375 So I felt incredibly honored that this simple award 663 00:27:40,375 --> 00:27:43,208 that my wife and I put together for ASGCT 664 00:27:43,208 --> 00:27:45,625 was able to actually recognize two of the pioneers 665 00:27:45,625 --> 00:27:47,041 in gene and cell therapy. 666 00:27:47,041 --> 00:27:47,875 That is incredible. 667 00:27:47,875 --> 00:27:50,000 I think he's well aware of your affections now. 668 00:27:50,000 --> 00:27:51,666 You can't really hide it anymore. 669 00:27:54,500 --> 00:27:56,125 So Suku, many of the people that are gonna be listening 670 00:27:56,125 --> 00:27:57,833 So Suku, many of the people that are gonna be listening 671 00:27:57,833 --> 00:27:59,791 to this podcast probably are not at the stage 672 00:27:59,791 --> 00:28:01,750 in their career that you are, 673 00:28:01,750 --> 00:28:06,958 probably earlier in their career as CMOs or aspiring CMOs. 674 00:28:06,958 --> 00:28:09,250 If you were to give them some advice 675 00:28:09,250 --> 00:28:11,041 at this stage, what would it be? 676 00:28:11,041 --> 00:28:12,291 What I would tell somebody 677 00:28:12,291 --> 00:28:14,125 who wants to be a chief medical officer, 678 00:28:14,125 --> 00:28:16,125 who just became a chief medical officer, 679 00:28:16,125 --> 00:28:19,375 is number one, remember to be yourself. 680 00:28:19,375 --> 00:28:22,250 Never forget who you are. Always be humble, okay? 681 00:28:22,250 --> 00:28:23,666 That's the first thing. 682 00:28:23,666 --> 00:28:26,125 Second is work on self-awareness. 683 00:28:26,125 --> 00:28:30,250 Be very sure, eventually, of what you're good at, 684 00:28:30,250 --> 00:28:32,875 what you like to do, what you're interested in, 685 00:28:32,875 --> 00:28:34,958 and what your actual gaps are, 686 00:28:34,958 --> 00:28:37,833 and how quickly those have to be filled. 687 00:28:37,833 --> 00:28:40,208 Because many a time, I find young physicians, 688 00:28:40,208 --> 00:28:41,791 or physicians who've just become, 689 00:28:41,791 --> 00:28:43,708 or other experts in the field 690 00:28:43,708 --> 00:28:46,041 who have become chief medical officers, 691 00:28:46,041 --> 00:28:47,875 tend to get wrapped up in themselves 692 00:28:47,875 --> 00:28:50,875 and suddenly get overwhelmed with what they have to achieve 693 00:28:50,875 --> 00:28:53,791 and forget to build the network and the team around them. 694 00:28:54,625 --> 00:28:57,291 If you look at my career, for example, 695 00:28:57,291 --> 00:28:59,916 most of what I have done, I didn't do by myself. 696 00:28:59,916 --> 00:29:01,916 I did it because of everybody around me. 697 00:29:01,916 --> 00:29:05,208 And I sincerely mean it. Ramin, you are part of my team. 698 00:29:05,208 --> 00:29:06,416 There were people at SSI. 699 00:29:06,416 --> 00:29:07,958 There were many others, 700 00:29:07,958 --> 00:29:09,958 Doug Feltner, Doug Sproule, Courtney Wells, 701 00:29:09,958 --> 00:29:11,458 who were all part of my team. 702 00:29:11,458 --> 00:29:14,208 I mean, if not for that incredible team around me at AveXis, 703 00:29:14,208 --> 00:29:15,791 we would not have delivered 704 00:29:15,791 --> 00:29:17,416 on everything we had to deliver on. 705 00:29:17,416 --> 00:29:19,916 And obviously, I didn't refer to the C-suite, 706 00:29:19,916 --> 00:29:21,750 Sean Nolan and others who were part 707 00:29:21,750 --> 00:29:22,916 of the C-suite at AveXis, 708 00:29:22,916 --> 00:29:25,250 and obviously, other companies that I'm involved with. 709 00:29:25,250 --> 00:29:27,500 If not for this incredible team around me, 710 00:29:27,500 --> 00:29:30,291 none of this could have been delivered as a CMO. 711 00:29:30,291 --> 00:29:32,375 And this is what I would always remind a young, 712 00:29:32,375 --> 00:29:34,375 up-and-coming CMO or somebody who wants 713 00:29:34,375 --> 00:29:36,083 to be a chief medical officer, 714 00:29:36,083 --> 00:29:39,625 is remember who you are, remember where your weaknesses are, 715 00:29:39,625 --> 00:29:42,125 don't be shy to admit that you don't know, 716 00:29:42,125 --> 00:29:44,000 and make sure you have the right network 717 00:29:44,000 --> 00:29:45,875 and people around you. 718 00:29:45,875 --> 00:29:47,750 Oh, and one more important thing. 719 00:29:47,750 --> 00:29:50,416 Don't feel shy to ask for help. 720 00:29:50,416 --> 00:29:52,333 I have never had a problem asking for help. 721 00:29:52,333 --> 00:29:54,916 Actually, sometimes I think that's my strength. 722 00:29:54,916 --> 00:29:56,875 And actually, sometimes even people think 723 00:29:56,875 --> 00:29:58,208 maybe I'm a little crazy about that, 724 00:29:58,208 --> 00:30:00,583 but I will put my hands up and say, "Guys, I need help 725 00:30:00,583 --> 00:30:03,000 because I don't know what the hell I'm doing here." 726 00:30:03,000 --> 00:30:04,541 And there's nothing wrong with that. 727 00:30:04,541 --> 00:30:09,583 Absolutely. That's great advice, Suku. 728 00:30:09,583 --> 00:30:13,666 We have come to at the end of our podcast. 729 00:30:13,666 --> 00:30:16,250 And I know we can probably do another couple of hours 730 00:30:16,250 --> 00:30:17,125 and questions. 731 00:30:17,125 --> 00:30:19,791 We had so many different questions that we wanted to ask, 732 00:30:19,791 --> 00:30:22,916 but we focus on these few for this first podcast 733 00:30:22,916 --> 00:30:23,958 that we had with you. 734 00:30:23,958 --> 00:30:27,083 So perhaps maybe in the future, you can join us. 735 00:30:27,083 --> 00:30:30,541 I do wanna thank you for taking some time of your day 736 00:30:30,541 --> 00:30:32,500 and be with us today. 737 00:30:32,500 --> 00:30:36,083 And also, really appreciate sharing your knowledge, 738 00:30:36,083 --> 00:30:40,041 your insight, your experience with us in such a candid way, 739 00:30:40,041 --> 00:30:43,666 in such a authentic way and pragmatic way 740 00:30:43,666 --> 00:30:47,750 that actually our listeners can take it to their day-to-day. 741 00:30:47,750 --> 00:30:51,000 So Ramin and Kim, I wanna thank you for talking to me. 742 00:30:51,000 --> 00:30:53,583 But can I leave both of you with one more thought? 743 00:30:53,583 --> 00:30:55,458 Of course. - And this is for all of you, 744 00:30:55,458 --> 00:30:59,125 including up-and-coming chief medical officers. 745 00:30:59,125 --> 00:31:02,583 Remember that everybody around you matters, 746 00:31:02,583 --> 00:31:05,708 which includes the person who opens your door, 747 00:31:05,708 --> 00:31:08,291 the guy who takes you to the airport, right, 748 00:31:08,291 --> 00:31:11,666 the guy who comes and does your work at the house. 749 00:31:11,666 --> 00:31:15,916 Because all of these people can make a difference 750 00:31:15,916 --> 00:31:16,750 in your lives. 751 00:31:16,750 --> 00:31:18,958 And maybe someday, if you ever do another podcast, 752 00:31:18,958 --> 00:31:23,958 I have stories of where a taxi cab driver changed my life, 753 00:31:24,250 --> 00:31:26,583 where a doorman in New York City had significant influence 754 00:31:26,583 --> 00:31:28,625 on what I did in biotech, et cetera. 755 00:31:28,625 --> 00:31:30,708 And I'm telling you, people around you, 756 00:31:30,708 --> 00:31:32,208 always be nice to them 757 00:31:32,208 --> 00:31:34,250 because you never know when you need them, okay? 758 00:31:34,250 --> 00:31:35,250 That's an incredible point. 759 00:31:35,250 --> 00:31:37,250 So on that note, thank you again, folks, okay? 760 00:31:37,250 --> 00:31:39,000 And have a good day, all right? 761 00:31:39,000 --> 00:31:40,375 Thank you so much, Suku. 762 00:31:40,375 --> 00:31:41,458 Great to see you, Suku. 763 00:31:41,458 --> 00:31:42,791 Have a great day. Bye-bye. 764 00:31:42,791 --> 00:31:44,000 Thanks for tuning in to 765 00:31:44,000 --> 00:31:45,250 The Emerging Biotech Leader 766 00:31:45,250 --> 00:31:47,125 an SSI Strategy Podcast. 767 00:31:47,541 --> 00:31:48,875 Join us each month for more 768 00:31:48,875 --> 00:31:50,500 conversations with biotech leaders. 769 00:31:50,791 --> 00:31:52,041 If you'd like to help navigating 770 00:31:52,041 --> 00:31:53,416 the complexities of biotech, 771 00:31:53,708 --> 00:31:56,250 reach out to our team at SSIStrategy.com. 772 00:31:56,583 --> 00:31:58,875 Don't forget to hit subscribe and leave a review.