1 00:00:03,600 --> 00:00:06,030 Leo Dion (host): Welcome to another episode, Empower Apps. 2 00:00:06,150 --> 00:00:07,590 I'm your host, Leo Dion. 3 00:00:07,590 --> 00:00:09,960 Today I'm joined by Antoine van der Lee. 4 00:00:10,650 --> 00:00:12,780 Antoine, thank you so much for coming back on the show. 5 00:00:13,500 --> 00:00:15,240 Antoine van der Lee (guest): Thank you for reinviting me over. 6 00:00:15,300 --> 00:00:16,320 It's a pleasure to be here. 7 00:00:18,180 --> 00:00:21,090 Leo Dion (host): It's been a while in, just in case there's like two 8 00:00:21,090 --> 00:00:24,210 or three people listening to this podcast who don't know who you are. 9 00:00:24,820 --> 00:00:26,110 Cuz they live under a rock. 10 00:00:26,170 --> 00:00:28,420 Can you go ahead and introduce yourself? 11 00:00:28,840 --> 00:00:29,620 Yeah, totally, 12 00:00:29,620 --> 00:00:29,980 Antoine van der Lee (guest): totally. 13 00:00:30,030 --> 00:00:33,849 Yeah, so I'm probably most known from my form of my blog called 14 00:00:33,849 --> 00:00:35,980 Swiftly, where I write articles. 15 00:00:36,220 --> 00:00:37,529 I think since 2000. 16 00:00:39,429 --> 00:00:40,029 Every week. 17 00:00:40,399 --> 00:00:42,799 I got my newsletter as well, sweetly weekly. 18 00:00:42,919 --> 00:00:47,659 And in my day to day job I'm working at, WeTransfer where I'm a iOS 19 00:00:47,659 --> 00:00:52,009 engineer, making sure that everything mobile is as perfect as it can be. 20 00:00:53,749 --> 00:00:55,369 Leo Dion (host): How long have you been at WeTransfer? 21 00:00:56,369 --> 00:00:59,009 Antoine van der Lee (guest): It's actually gonna be 6 years This. 22 00:01:00,719 --> 00:01:00,929 That's 23 00:01:00,929 --> 00:01:01,619 Leo Dion (host): awesome. 24 00:01:01,739 --> 00:01:05,309 That's, well, isn't that, that's awesome, . Yeah, that's, 25 00:01:05,699 --> 00:01:07,019 I mean, in a good way though. 26 00:01:07,019 --> 00:01:10,289 Like, they love you, you like them, so, absolutely. 27 00:01:10,339 --> 00:01:12,164 That's, that's fantastic. 28 00:01:12,284 --> 00:01:12,854 What was I gonna say? 29 00:01:12,854 --> 00:01:16,064 I love WeTransfer, by the way, if you're ever looking for a way, like 30 00:01:16,064 --> 00:01:17,234 they're not a sponsor or anything. 31 00:01:17,234 --> 00:01:21,580 So just if you're looking for a really easy way to transfer a super big file, 32 00:01:21,640 --> 00:01:23,740 like it's the simplest way to do it. 33 00:01:23,740 --> 00:01:29,560 I find whatever Dropbox, I mean, I'll use Google Drive on occasion, 34 00:01:29,590 --> 00:01:31,539 but that's more for like mm-hmm. 35 00:01:31,750 --> 00:01:34,330 , I think like if you have a shared folder, but like if you have just 36 00:01:34,390 --> 00:01:35,980 a file you wanna send to someone. 37 00:01:36,520 --> 00:01:36,640 Yeah. 38 00:01:36,640 --> 00:01:38,889 Like, WeTransfer solid. 39 00:01:39,050 --> 00:01:40,580 And it's just super easy to use. 40 00:01:40,880 --> 00:01:41,180 Antoine van der Lee (guest): Yeah. 41 00:01:41,200 --> 00:01:44,921 As, as, as long as the listeners know that it's not about money transfers, you 42 00:01:44,926 --> 00:01:46,790 know, we, we get people applying for the. 43 00:01:48,030 --> 00:01:48,310 Right. 44 00:01:48,710 --> 00:01:51,080 We ask them, why do you wanna work for WeTransfer? 45 00:01:51,150 --> 00:01:54,911 And they say like, yeah, yeah, I've been using we for years to transfer my 46 00:01:54,916 --> 00:01:56,500 money and you know, and I wanna work 47 00:01:56,500 --> 00:01:57,100 Leo Dion (host): for the company. 48 00:01:57,310 --> 00:01:58,750 They do this in an interview. 49 00:01:59,850 --> 00:02:01,220 Antoine van der Lee (guest): They, they, that's amazing. 50 00:02:01,220 --> 00:02:02,680 They do that when they apply for a job. 51 00:02:02,680 --> 00:02:05,530 And I'm like, how can you transfer money if we don't even support it? 52 00:02:05,530 --> 00:02:06,980 So it's all about file 53 00:02:07,220 --> 00:02:07,380 Leo Dion (host): transfers. 54 00:02:08,380 --> 00:02:09,609 And, and NFTs, right? 55 00:02:09,609 --> 00:02:11,470 You can transfer NFTs, right? 56 00:02:11,829 --> 00:02:13,060 Maybe you're doing that this year. 57 00:02:13,780 --> 00:02:15,730 May . You never know. 58 00:02:15,730 --> 00:02:16,450 Sarcastic. 59 00:02:17,655 --> 00:02:18,685 You don't never know. 60 00:02:18,834 --> 00:02:21,234 Assuming there's still a thing in 2023. 61 00:02:21,804 --> 00:02:22,104 Yeah. 62 00:02:22,164 --> 00:02:25,734 So last episode I gave my solo year in review. 63 00:02:25,734 --> 00:02:30,894 You wrote an article giving your year in review, and I figure we'd 64 00:02:31,194 --> 00:02:33,414 deep dive a little bit in our. 65 00:02:34,000 --> 00:02:38,410 Mutual year in reviews, but also kind of talk more because I didn't 66 00:02:38,410 --> 00:02:43,519 really talk a lot about the technical aspect of how things changed in 67 00:02:43,519 --> 00:02:46,369 the Swift and Apple world in 2022. 68 00:02:47,179 --> 00:02:53,359 But before we begin, I'll just let you kind of give your quick thoughts on 2022 69 00:02:53,359 --> 00:02:55,519 as far as being a developer in this space. 70 00:02:56,809 --> 00:02:57,619 Yeah, so 71 00:02:58,070 --> 00:02:58,879 Antoine van der Lee (guest): 2020. 72 00:03:00,349 --> 00:03:02,329 Has been quite an amazing year. 73 00:03:02,429 --> 00:03:05,860 Mostly from a personal side of things to be honest, because I 74 00:03:05,860 --> 00:03:12,010 became a dad in March and I married my, my wife now in in December. 75 00:03:12,460 --> 00:03:18,370 Altogether quite significant offense I'd say, but still I had, yes, somehow 76 00:03:18,370 --> 00:03:21,340 if I look back what I achieved from the technical side of things with 77 00:03:21,340 --> 00:03:23,050 the releases of my side projects. 78 00:03:24,160 --> 00:03:28,140 I, I can't really tell that I had such major events in my private life as well. 79 00:03:28,775 --> 00:03:30,335 It's, it's been a quite a crazy year. 80 00:03:30,365 --> 00:03:37,775 We had two Swift releases with 5.6, 5.7, and I remember preparing a talk in June, 81 00:03:38,225 --> 00:03:41,615 two weeks after WWDC and the idea was to. 82 00:03:43,520 --> 00:03:48,020 A topic from, that's kind of like the whole new thing to talk about. 83 00:03:48,650 --> 00:03:52,880 And if you look back at previous years, we had major releases 84 00:03:52,940 --> 00:03:57,110 in Swift Package Manager, Xcode Cloud, Async/Await, Catalyst. 85 00:03:57,110 --> 00:04:02,059 You know, there, those were kind of like easy topics to pick for a talk 86 00:04:02,059 --> 00:04:04,030 if you wanna do a talk about WWDC. 87 00:04:04,309 --> 00:04:08,759 And this year I was like, What is the most obvious one to pick? 88 00:04:08,759 --> 00:04:08,999 Right. 89 00:04:09,600 --> 00:04:10,739 That was an interesting journey. 90 00:04:10,739 --> 00:04:16,740 I, I ended up doing a talk about opaque types, existential any generics, 91 00:04:17,130 --> 00:04:18,960 and kinda realized which conference 92 00:04:18,960 --> 00:04:19,440 Leo Dion (host): was this? 93 00:04:20,519 --> 00:04:21,450 Several actually. 94 00:04:21,529 --> 00:04:26,130 Antoine van der Lee (guest): I did it at yeah, quite, quite a few honestly. 95 00:04:26,185 --> 00:04:27,235 That's the thing with the talk, right? 96 00:04:27,240 --> 00:04:28,855 It takes a lot of time to prepare it. 97 00:04:30,219 --> 00:04:35,379 Chances are low, that one Visiting Fran Kit also visited Ab devcon. 98 00:04:35,409 --> 00:04:35,679 Right. 99 00:04:35,679 --> 00:04:39,699 So yeah, plus if I do my talk again, it becomes better and better. 100 00:04:40,090 --> 00:04:43,089 And the last version and the last one I did was in Poland. 101 00:04:43,619 --> 00:04:45,959 Yeah, that was, that was much better than the first version. 102 00:04:45,964 --> 00:04:46,469 I can tell. 103 00:04:47,469 --> 00:04:47,739 Yeah. 104 00:04:47,769 --> 00:04:51,579 But either way, if I look back, it feels like really like a year 105 00:04:51,579 --> 00:04:52,929 with, with improvements, right? 106 00:04:52,929 --> 00:04:55,899 So improving the things that we already have, making them even 107 00:04:55,899 --> 00:04:58,269 better to watch the roads of yeah. 108 00:04:58,299 --> 00:04:59,949 Swift 6 that will hopefully 109 00:04:59,954 --> 00:05:00,639 Leo Dion (host): arrive next year. 110 00:05:02,439 --> 00:05:02,709 Yeah. 111 00:05:02,709 --> 00:05:03,519 Right, right. 112 00:05:03,699 --> 00:05:06,649 Trying to think of what I've seen on Swift 6. 113 00:05:06,999 --> 00:05:09,309 What was the, there was one thing I, I just saw recently. 114 00:05:10,059 --> 00:05:10,569 That. 115 00:05:10,809 --> 00:05:14,650 Well, we'll get into it later when we talk about server side Swift stuff too. 116 00:05:14,679 --> 00:05:16,569 Cause that was a big thing a few weeks ago. 117 00:05:17,319 --> 00:05:22,110 But Yeah, we also had big improvements to Swift ui as far as opening 118 00:05:22,110 --> 00:05:24,510 up navigation and layout stuff. 119 00:05:25,110 --> 00:05:30,630 And then one thing, one thing I didn't, I didn't actually put on our notes, but just 120 00:05:30,659 --> 00:05:35,460 you talking about conferences, it's kind of here on the other side of the world. 121 00:05:35,510 --> 00:05:39,100 We don't have a lot of conferences so Bette. 122 00:05:39,885 --> 00:05:43,935 We do now, but last year just the only conference I remember in the US 123 00:05:43,935 --> 00:05:48,105 was 360iDev and so we talked about in the last episode they're ending 124 00:05:48,105 --> 00:05:50,055 that, but now this year we have. 125 00:05:51,160 --> 00:05:53,650 You know, a few more new ones that have grown. 126 00:05:53,655 --> 00:05:54,795 New York Swift. 127 00:05:54,800 --> 00:05:55,075 Yep. 128 00:05:55,125 --> 00:05:55,755 Deep Dish. 129 00:05:55,755 --> 00:05:59,295 Josh is putting together deep dish and then I guess Toronto 130 00:05:59,354 --> 00:06:01,215 is also coming back again. 131 00:06:01,245 --> 00:06:02,505 I heard that like yesterday. 132 00:06:02,895 --> 00:06:03,135 So. 133 00:06:03,135 --> 00:06:03,224 Nice. 134 00:06:03,705 --> 00:06:04,245 That's good. 135 00:06:04,245 --> 00:06:09,625 Finally, health America has some more conferences so I kind of envy that you, 136 00:06:09,625 --> 00:06:13,465 you have them, but I'm glad we're growing more here on the other side of the ocean. 137 00:06:14,710 --> 00:06:15,249 Yeah, but 138 00:06:15,909 --> 00:06:17,229 Antoine van der Lee (guest): this is a good point, right? 139 00:06:17,340 --> 00:06:21,690 2022 was the first year again that we had in-person conferences, 140 00:06:21,690 --> 00:06:23,729 or at least many of them. 141 00:06:23,849 --> 00:06:25,920 Cause the year before it was all online. 142 00:06:26,520 --> 00:06:31,590 And honestly that didn't felt as good as the ones in person where you really 143 00:06:31,590 --> 00:06:33,719 got to meet people, hang out with them. 144 00:06:34,249 --> 00:06:34,549 Yeah. 145 00:06:35,119 --> 00:06:37,279 In terms of conferences, it was a great. 146 00:06:38,279 --> 00:06:39,869 Leo Dion (host): Do you think things are back to normal? 147 00:06:41,579 --> 00:06:42,839 Well, normal. 148 00:06:42,839 --> 00:06:43,979 As normal as they're gonna be? 149 00:06:44,099 --> 00:06:44,499 Yeah. 150 00:06:44,889 --> 00:06:48,749 Antoine van der Lee (guest): I, I mean, I guess, I guess what makes it mostly 151 00:06:48,749 --> 00:06:51,209 back to normal is WWDC this year. 152 00:06:51,209 --> 00:06:57,809 If that's going to be as good as it was a few years back when it was in person, 153 00:06:58,169 --> 00:06:59,729 then I would say it's all back to normal. 154 00:06:59,729 --> 00:07:02,019 But I think the, the. 155 00:07:02,819 --> 00:07:08,579 Different way of working during covid you know, opened up doors for companies as 156 00:07:08,579 --> 00:07:13,349 well, but as well as for conferences like wwc where they notice, you know, like the 157 00:07:13,349 --> 00:07:16,559 online format might actually work better. 158 00:07:16,619 --> 00:07:21,089 You know, we, we get so many great videos that are shorter in time. 159 00:07:21,094 --> 00:07:22,199 They're more to the point. 160 00:07:22,589 --> 00:07:24,659 Everybody can watch them, everybody can reach them. 161 00:07:25,049 --> 00:07:29,264 But yeah, the one thing that I, I, I still missed honestly, is, Everybody 162 00:07:29,264 --> 00:07:31,364 from the community gets together and wwc. 163 00:07:31,994 --> 00:07:33,434 I mean, that used to be the thing, right? 164 00:07:33,804 --> 00:07:35,154 You had parties everywhere. 165 00:07:35,154 --> 00:07:38,394 Every evening there was a company hosting a party where you could go to and such. 166 00:07:39,894 --> 00:07:42,924 I wish that comes back and if that comes back, then we're back to normal. 167 00:07:43,924 --> 00:07:49,064 Leo Dion (host): Do you, do you think WWDC will be in person this year at, at the 168 00:07:49,064 --> 00:07:51,645 Antoine van der Lee (guest): minimum it will be like they did last year. 169 00:07:52,350 --> 00:07:56,070 But yeah, I'm not, not not sure about you, but at least for me, going 170 00:07:56,070 --> 00:08:02,820 all the way there for just one day, pretty much, that was a bit too much. 171 00:08:02,909 --> 00:08:05,900 And yeah, it's hard to say how it'll be this year. 172 00:08:06,900 --> 00:08:07,650 Think about it, right? 173 00:08:07,655 --> 00:08:09,150 If it's back to what it was. 174 00:08:09,599 --> 00:08:11,520 But with the videos, like we are used to. 175 00:08:13,064 --> 00:08:17,205 How will it be to be there every day, Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday? 176 00:08:17,864 --> 00:08:21,494 You know, watching the sessions in person while they have the new format, I think. 177 00:08:21,494 --> 00:08:22,484 I think that will be tricky. 178 00:08:22,489 --> 00:08:26,564 So they need to find a new format, maybe where, where you can watch the 179 00:08:26,564 --> 00:08:29,594 prerecorded sessions in person there. 180 00:08:29,684 --> 00:08:31,604 Kind of like a cinema or something? 181 00:08:31,604 --> 00:08:31,904 Leo Dion (host): I don't know. 182 00:08:31,904 --> 00:08:38,655 I think, yeah, I mean, the thing, the big thing is, is like Apple, when they 183 00:08:38,655 --> 00:08:44,220 started wwdc, I don't know where, late nineties maybe, or early two thousands. 184 00:08:44,880 --> 00:08:46,410 They were a different company. 185 00:08:46,850 --> 00:08:50,690 They weren't the mammoth, like biggest company in the world that they are now. 186 00:08:51,350 --> 00:08:52,310 And so like. 187 00:08:53,375 --> 00:08:57,935 There's a lot of benefit to a lot of people to just do remote for 188 00:08:58,775 --> 00:09:01,085 like the base content of wwdc. 189 00:09:01,695 --> 00:09:03,465 I do like that they've stretched out. 190 00:09:03,465 --> 00:09:06,105 One thing that we've seen this year is we've seen more of the 191 00:09:06,105 --> 00:09:10,565 one-on-one appointments and the slack Q & A say what you will, but. 192 00:09:10,960 --> 00:09:15,600 It's something where like things are more spread out throughout the year 193 00:09:15,600 --> 00:09:19,080 and it's not just like, here's one week where you can talk to an Apple developer. 194 00:09:19,080 --> 00:09:19,770 You have more. 195 00:09:20,190 --> 00:09:22,830 It's, it's like, I've had a couple, I've talked about 'em, I've had a 196 00:09:22,830 --> 00:09:27,440 couple of meetings with folks at Apple and that's been super helpful for me. 197 00:09:27,890 --> 00:09:29,180 Getting those appointments. 198 00:09:29,240 --> 00:09:33,290 It's not as good as like what it might have been when WWDC was totally 199 00:09:33,290 --> 00:09:37,400 in person, but at least we're able to do it more frequently, I guess. 200 00:09:39,205 --> 00:09:39,505 Yeah. 201 00:09:39,505 --> 00:09:39,805 And, 202 00:09:39,810 --> 00:09:40,735 Antoine van der Lee (guest): and, but this, this one is 203 00:09:41,135 --> 00:09:41,815 interesting as well, right? 204 00:09:41,815 --> 00:09:45,655 Because in a way you could also say it's better than how it was at top wc. 205 00:09:46,305 --> 00:09:50,415 I re I remember especially the year that Swift UI was announced, there were so 206 00:09:50,415 --> 00:09:52,545 many big lines for questions about it. 207 00:09:53,025 --> 00:09:56,505 If you look now, you can actually access all the questions. 208 00:09:56,955 --> 00:09:59,385 That are asked by others in the select threats, right? 209 00:09:59,475 --> 00:10:03,145 So there are people compiling those questions in a gate of repository so 210 00:10:03,145 --> 00:10:07,655 you can look them up afterwards, but it allows you to gain insights that 211 00:10:07,660 --> 00:10:09,695 you would otherwise never, never see. 212 00:10:09,755 --> 00:10:13,055 And I think there, there might also be the downside that 213 00:10:13,055 --> 00:10:14,255 you can't really go in depth. 214 00:10:14,820 --> 00:10:18,270 Share your screen next to a developer that works on the 215 00:10:18,270 --> 00:10:19,530 CoreData framework or something. 216 00:10:19,530 --> 00:10:19,860 I dunno. 217 00:10:20,160 --> 00:10:23,700 Yeah, that, those are still things that, that we missed, but Yeah. 218 00:10:23,730 --> 00:10:26,460 I dunno, there, there there's better be a balance now, right? 219 00:10:26,460 --> 00:10:28,410 Like they need to find the sweet spot. 220 00:10:29,410 --> 00:10:30,820 Leo Dion (host): Do you think Here's, here's one. 221 00:10:31,270 --> 00:10:35,170 We're totally going, not on our notes, but I, I figured I'd ask , especially 222 00:10:35,170 --> 00:10:38,260 considering like there's been a lot of rumors about a certain Apple product 223 00:10:38,260 --> 00:10:39,640 that people put on their heads. 224 00:10:40,060 --> 00:10:45,610 Do you think we're gonna get any more in, in person press events 225 00:10:46,990 --> 00:10:51,850 for like, say a March event or a September event or an October event? 226 00:10:53,425 --> 00:10:56,635 Especially with a product like that, I can't, I can't see how, 227 00:10:56,635 --> 00:10:59,605 like, how do you show that off? 228 00:10:59,635 --> 00:11:03,055 I guess you could show it off in a video, but like, it's such a, it's 229 00:11:03,055 --> 00:11:08,725 such a product that you have to feel and interact and immerse yourself in. 230 00:11:09,445 --> 00:11:09,985 Exactly. 231 00:11:10,135 --> 00:11:10,645 Antoine van der Lee (guest): Exactly. 232 00:11:10,645 --> 00:11:15,445 So I guess they, they would really benefit from an in-person event at least. 233 00:11:16,380 --> 00:11:19,840 For, for press and media which they did last year as well, right? 234 00:11:19,840 --> 00:11:22,720 Like press and media was, was invited as well, I believe, for the keynote. 235 00:11:23,860 --> 00:11:28,810 But yeah, for developers I guess as well, there must be like a developer. 236 00:11:30,385 --> 00:11:31,585 Or anything similar. 237 00:11:31,765 --> 00:11:35,785 It reminds me as well about the bowling game with ar when AR was released first. 238 00:11:35,785 --> 00:11:35,995 Right. 239 00:11:35,995 --> 00:11:41,245 You could do a bowling game play against each other, right, right. 240 00:11:41,245 --> 00:11:41,395 Yeah. 241 00:11:41,395 --> 00:11:42,715 Those, those are the things you need to do. 242 00:11:43,345 --> 00:11:43,645 Leo Dion (host): Yeah. 243 00:11:44,635 --> 00:11:44,935 Right. 244 00:11:45,325 --> 00:11:46,105 Yeah, exactly. 245 00:11:47,575 --> 00:11:52,735 Okay, so I, I looked over at your top articles and if I remember correctly, 246 00:11:52,735 --> 00:11:57,275 you had an Async Await article that was really popular this year. 247 00:11:57,280 --> 00:11:59,675 You had a combined article that was popular this year. 248 00:12:00,395 --> 00:12:01,325 What was the other one? 249 00:12:01,325 --> 00:12:02,345 I can't remember now. 250 00:12:02,885 --> 00:12:03,245 Do you remember? 251 00:12:03,245 --> 00:12:03,515 I think it 252 00:12:03,515 --> 00:12:05,105 Antoine van der Lee (guest): was JSON Handling. 253 00:12:06,345 --> 00:12:06,835 Okay. 254 00:12:07,055 --> 00:12:07,985 Just, yeah. 255 00:12:08,165 --> 00:12:08,955 Leo Dion (host): Decoding and. 256 00:12:10,625 --> 00:12:11,555 Yeah, right. 257 00:12:11,585 --> 00:12:15,845 Like advanced co decoding, but like, it seems like a big thing had been 258 00:12:15,845 --> 00:12:20,375 that people were really interested in still in Async way and combined. 259 00:12:20,375 --> 00:12:24,935 What's kind of your view of the relationship between those 260 00:12:24,935 --> 00:12:29,795 two and, and how, how they work and the ecosystem in 2023? 261 00:12:30,995 --> 00:12:31,565 Yeah, this 262 00:12:31,565 --> 00:12:33,875 Antoine van der Lee (guest): is a, a hot topic I would say. 263 00:12:35,045 --> 00:12:36,725 Many people wonder. 264 00:12:37,625 --> 00:12:42,245 Whether combined will still be alive in a few years, especially because we didn't 265 00:12:42,245 --> 00:12:46,865 see any major updates to the combined framework and this year's release. 266 00:12:48,755 --> 00:12:54,275 I think the, the main point for me is that if you look at Swifty heavily, 267 00:12:55,295 --> 00:12:58,295 Relies on combined under the hood, right? 268 00:12:58,295 --> 00:13:01,235 Like things like the public property or the state property, all those 269 00:13:01,235 --> 00:13:05,725 kind property wrappers underneath, they use combined observable object. 270 00:13:05,725 --> 00:13:12,555 They actually comes with a a publisher in its definition, the object will change. 271 00:13:13,635 --> 00:13:16,875 So to me it's very clear, combined is not going anywhere. 272 00:13:16,875 --> 00:13:17,385 And I think the. 273 00:13:18,165 --> 00:13:21,765 They didn't update it this year, is that it's quite mature. 274 00:13:22,905 --> 00:13:23,895 Combined is nothing new. 275 00:13:23,895 --> 00:13:24,165 Right? 276 00:13:24,165 --> 00:13:26,595 Like we had a Swift, reactive, Swift for years. 277 00:13:26,835 --> 00:13:31,175 The whole reactive paradigm was already known or sorted out. 278 00:13:31,175 --> 00:13:36,395 So to me it does make kind of sense that combine was good from the get go in a way. 279 00:13:36,755 --> 00:13:38,155 So how, how 280 00:13:38,155 --> 00:13:38,705 Leo Dion (host): do they lift together? 281 00:13:38,705 --> 00:13:41,405 What would you look for if you, if you were gonna look for an update 282 00:13:41,405 --> 00:13:42,595 to combine, what would you look? 283 00:13:43,595 --> 00:13:44,885 Well, I guess 284 00:13:44,985 --> 00:13:46,365 Antoine van der Lee (guest): if I look into the projects that, 285 00:13:46,455 --> 00:13:48,185 that I work on we would mm-hmm. 286 00:13:48,430 --> 00:13:50,855 often visit the combined extensions. 287 00:13:51,635 --> 00:13:52,445 Austria getup. 288 00:13:52,450 --> 00:13:57,515 It's quite a popular one where it's mostly just convenience extensions of publishers. 289 00:13:57,905 --> 00:13:59,285 But you can compare it to. 290 00:13:59,985 --> 00:14:02,795 You know, foundation comes with certain types, but you, you're 291 00:14:02,795 --> 00:14:04,655 still not completely fulfilled. 292 00:14:04,655 --> 00:14:09,545 So you write your own extensions on strings or, or, or collections or, right. 293 00:14:09,815 --> 00:14:11,165 That's the same with combined. 294 00:14:12,185 --> 00:14:19,775 I don't think I really in a updates in the core combined framework, to be honest. 295 00:14:20,915 --> 00:14:23,945 It's pretty solid and yeah. 296 00:14:25,175 --> 00:14:27,065 So I didn't really expect something new there. 297 00:14:28,065 --> 00:14:29,775 Leo Dion (host): I think like, you kind of hit it on the nose 298 00:14:29,775 --> 00:14:34,085 though, like what, what's kind of developed out of the community is 299 00:14:34,090 --> 00:14:36,215 kind of what we expect from Apple. 300 00:14:36,220 --> 00:14:40,505 Cuz I'm in the same boat where I'll u I use Combine quite a bit and I 301 00:14:40,510 --> 00:14:45,485 have the same extensions I have to put in all my apps because I need 302 00:14:45,485 --> 00:14:50,235 to do a particular thing like, you know, like, oh, I wanna return an 303 00:14:50,235 --> 00:14:52,875 optional or I need a return, I need to. 304 00:14:53,880 --> 00:14:58,970 Silence and error and just return the value or or the, so there's that, right? 305 00:14:58,970 --> 00:15:02,960 There's extensions on, on combined, common, combined methods like a map or a 306 00:15:02,960 --> 00:15:05,660 tri map or whatever, or, or a flat map. 307 00:15:05,690 --> 00:15:10,130 But then there's also, there's, so we had, you know, when combined came out, we got. 308 00:15:10,525 --> 00:15:14,875 One for notification center, one for I know I'm gonna forget 309 00:15:14,875 --> 00:15:17,335 this notification Center timer. 310 00:15:17,365 --> 00:15:20,125 And I feel like there's one other one I'm missing. 311 00:15:20,155 --> 00:15:21,025 Oh, url. 312 00:15:21,235 --> 00:15:21,835 URL session. 313 00:15:21,840 --> 00:15:22,285 Maybe. 314 00:15:22,915 --> 00:15:24,745 I think we got three publishers. 315 00:15:25,285 --> 00:15:25,375 Mm-hmm. 316 00:15:25,715 --> 00:15:27,245 From older APIs. 317 00:15:27,605 --> 00:15:30,885 But There's still a lot of older APIs that don't have com. 318 00:15:30,945 --> 00:15:34,055 Like you have to like write your own combined scaffolding for, like, for 319 00:15:34,055 --> 00:15:37,775 instance, I wrote a whole series of articles in Core location and how to 320 00:15:37,780 --> 00:15:40,115 hook that up into Combine Health Kits. 321 00:15:40,120 --> 00:15:43,505 Common one that I use where there's, I have to do my own work 322 00:15:43,865 --> 00:15:45,245 to get it to work with Combine. 323 00:15:45,545 --> 00:15:48,395 So I think, yeah, like you said, those are kind of the missing pieces 324 00:15:48,395 --> 00:15:49,685 where the community can fill those in. 325 00:15:49,685 --> 00:15:50,555 That's fine, but. 326 00:15:51,200 --> 00:15:53,990 You'd think like Apple would kind of be like, Hey, by the way, here's a, 327 00:15:54,020 --> 00:15:56,090 here's a, here's the Apple way to do it. 328 00:15:56,150 --> 00:15:57,230 You should use this way. 329 00:15:57,730 --> 00:16:01,270 Yeah, I kind of think that's what's missing in combined. 330 00:16:01,660 --> 00:16:05,020 It's not, it's not like the end of the world because obviously the 331 00:16:05,020 --> 00:16:06,490 community has filled that in, but. 332 00:16:07,240 --> 00:16:10,270 If there's anything you're gonna expect from Apple, it'd be those things. 333 00:16:10,510 --> 00:16:14,950 I mean, I do know they have, what's going back to the whole thing about Async eight? 334 00:16:14,950 --> 00:16:15,430 They do. 335 00:16:16,120 --> 00:16:19,360 I believe that there's some stuff like even Health Kit where they've moved 336 00:16:19,510 --> 00:16:21,190 some of that over to Async eight. 337 00:16:21,730 --> 00:16:23,830 So I find that interesting. 338 00:16:23,830 --> 00:16:28,480 Whereas they haven't built like publishers for a lot of those older APIs. 339 00:16:29,350 --> 00:16:29,770 Yeah, but 340 00:16:30,080 --> 00:16:32,050 Antoine van der Lee (guest): I, I think this comes from the angle, how 341 00:16:32,050 --> 00:16:35,320 Apple looks at use cases for combined. 342 00:16:37,240 --> 00:16:41,620 If, if, if we really come back to your initial question, like how does Async 343 00:16:41,620 --> 00:16:46,600 live together with combined, I think there's a certain use case for combined 344 00:16:46,600 --> 00:16:52,720 that that's not really logical to do with Async, but the way around as well, right? 345 00:16:52,725 --> 00:16:55,930 Like stream of publishing values. 346 00:16:55,935 --> 00:16:58,570 You could use async sequence as well, but to me that. 347 00:16:59,470 --> 00:17:03,060 Much less naturally versus a combined streamer. 348 00:17:03,060 --> 00:17:03,810 It's more fairly active. 349 00:17:04,530 --> 00:17:08,790 Yeah, I mean, it makes it just a lot easier to create like a funnel of, of, 350 00:17:08,980 --> 00:17:13,010 of, you know, operators that handle the over time you know, deep bouncing 351 00:17:13,010 --> 00:17:14,330 techniques, all those kind of things. 352 00:17:14,330 --> 00:17:18,480 And there is a repository from Apple that allows you to do all those 353 00:17:18,480 --> 00:17:21,815 kind of operations like sipping and, and all those kind of things. 354 00:17:23,330 --> 00:17:25,340 It doesn't read naturally to me. 355 00:17:25,420 --> 00:17:29,380 Even the, the asing sequence with the four loop where the four loop can 356 00:17:30,160 --> 00:17:34,660 run and then it doesn't run for a few minutes maybe, and then it runs again. 357 00:17:34,750 --> 00:17:38,080 It doesn't feel natural to me cause it's structured concurrency. 358 00:17:38,080 --> 00:17:43,300 So you expect it to go from top down, but eventually it would 359 00:17:43,300 --> 00:17:45,910 reach the latest part of your code. 360 00:17:45,910 --> 00:17:48,990 And when Asing sequence, I feel like we're. 361 00:17:49,720 --> 00:17:50,140 Somewhere. 362 00:17:50,530 --> 00:17:52,000 Whereas with Combine, I totally agree. 363 00:17:52,070 --> 00:17:52,560 Yeah. 364 00:17:52,560 --> 00:17:53,950 With, with combined, it makes sense, right? 365 00:17:53,950 --> 00:17:56,350 Cause we're used to that paradigm of a stream 366 00:17:56,350 --> 00:17:57,250 Leo Dion (host): of values over time. 367 00:17:57,550 --> 00:18:01,270 Reacting like a pipeline of, of, of a stream of data from 368 00:18:01,640 --> 00:18:03,040 multiple sources or Yeah. 369 00:18:03,160 --> 00:18:03,910 Things like that. 370 00:18:04,330 --> 00:18:04,900 Antoine van der Lee (guest): Exactly. 371 00:18:04,900 --> 00:18:09,400 So I, I guess it comes down to, for me at least, like an aing piece of 372 00:18:09,400 --> 00:18:14,320 code that goes from A to B, but it, it will go from the beginning till the. 373 00:18:15,895 --> 00:18:18,985 In one in one flow, then I would use ay weight. 374 00:18:19,615 --> 00:18:19,825 Yeah. 375 00:18:20,155 --> 00:18:21,025 And that, that's how I use 376 00:18:21,025 --> 00:18:21,115 Leo Dion (host): it. 377 00:18:21,125 --> 00:18:21,445 Yeah. 378 00:18:21,445 --> 00:18:21,965 Ay away. 379 00:18:23,335 --> 00:18:23,605 Ay away. 380 00:18:23,665 --> 00:18:29,305 Just to me it makes more sense when you have a single asynchronous operation that 381 00:18:29,305 --> 00:18:34,495 you're doing, whereas like when you need to react to a stream of data or you need 382 00:18:34,715 --> 00:18:36,415 to manage multiple streams of data to. 383 00:18:37,675 --> 00:18:43,015 Syncs, I guess, or, or published properties then combined makes more sense. 384 00:18:43,045 --> 00:18:46,195 I, I, I think that's one of the, my gaping holes of knowledge that 385 00:18:46,195 --> 00:18:49,705 I'd like to fill this year is figuring out how Async Stream works. 386 00:18:49,825 --> 00:18:50,315 Yeah. 387 00:18:50,320 --> 00:18:51,955 And kind of getting more of that perspective. 388 00:18:51,955 --> 00:18:54,715 But it seems like you're, you're kind of in the same boat as as I am where 389 00:18:54,715 --> 00:18:59,070 it's like I've, we'll talk, you know, I've jumped into group activities and 390 00:18:59,070 --> 00:19:04,350 group activities is big into Async Await for managing stuff as it comes in. 391 00:19:04,350 --> 00:19:05,180 And for me, it. 392 00:19:06,120 --> 00:19:06,960 . It doesn't look natural. 393 00:19:06,960 --> 00:19:07,650 Like it doesn't. 394 00:19:07,650 --> 00:19:11,080 I , I still haven't figured out like I get what's going on. 395 00:19:11,080 --> 00:19:14,600 But like you said, that for Loop is just, it looks strange to me from what 396 00:19:14,600 --> 00:19:16,850 I expect from an async away process. 397 00:19:17,390 --> 00:19:17,780 Antoine van der Lee (guest): Yeah. 398 00:19:17,780 --> 00:19:20,240 And, but it, it's interesting what you say, right? 399 00:19:20,240 --> 00:19:23,540 Like you, you still need to wrap your head around and it's something still 400 00:19:23,545 --> 00:19:24,770 need to figure out bit this year. 401 00:19:25,130 --> 00:19:28,070 It, it could also very well be something we need to get used to. 402 00:19:28,780 --> 00:19:32,725 When I did my talk on Existential "any" and Opaque types. 403 00:19:33,015 --> 00:19:35,745 Generics are now rewritten using like a "some" keyword. 404 00:19:36,085 --> 00:19:40,725 " Some" is equal to T where T conforms to protocol. 405 00:19:41,055 --> 00:19:43,665 It's, it's like a short hand that reads more naturally. 406 00:19:43,670 --> 00:19:45,885 It's e in a way, easier to understand. 407 00:19:46,345 --> 00:19:50,635 But at that point I realize like if you're like, like a developer that 408 00:19:50,785 --> 00:19:54,895 developed for years, you're used to the generic syntax getting used 409 00:19:54,895 --> 00:19:56,365 to the new syntax of using opa. 410 00:19:57,640 --> 00:19:59,170 Seems odd because you're not used to it. 411 00:19:59,860 --> 00:20:03,970 But if you're starting today as an engineer on Swift and you read 412 00:20:04,360 --> 00:20:08,410 Opaque types using the sum keyword, it might feel much more natural and 413 00:20:08,410 --> 00:20:09,610 you get used to it really quickly. 414 00:20:10,060 --> 00:20:15,520 And that might also apply to Async way where we are used to 415 00:20:15,550 --> 00:20:16,870 using combined in those cases. 416 00:20:16,870 --> 00:20:18,710 But if you're not aware of how combined. 417 00:20:19,480 --> 00:20:23,110 And you read about async sequence, you might find that 418 00:20:23,110 --> 00:20:25,100 really natural to yourself. 419 00:20:25,170 --> 00:20:26,790 And, and I find this fascinating, right? 420 00:20:27,030 --> 00:20:28,860 It's kind of like the tunnel vision we have. 421 00:20:28,920 --> 00:20:30,330 Cause we're used to a certain pattern. 422 00:20:30,720 --> 00:20:33,780 But yeah, maybe it's sometimes good to step out of it, try it out and 423 00:20:33,780 --> 00:20:35,070 see if it actually works better. 424 00:20:36,010 --> 00:20:38,050 And just accept Yeah, that is different. 425 00:20:38,140 --> 00:20:38,410 Leo Dion (host): Yeah. 426 00:20:39,865 --> 00:20:41,215 Yeah, I totally agree. 427 00:20:41,465 --> 00:20:42,725 Well let's, let's jump into it. 428 00:20:42,725 --> 00:20:48,155 Let's talk a little bit about the way generics changed this year and 429 00:20:48,160 --> 00:20:49,865 associated types and all that stuff. 430 00:20:50,465 --> 00:20:52,055 We got the new, any key word. 431 00:20:52,115 --> 00:20:55,425 We've already had some, some came with Swift y because they didn't wanna 432 00:20:55,895 --> 00:20:57,845 have to like specify every single. 433 00:20:58,525 --> 00:21:02,005 Generic type and it makes sense in that case with our some view. 434 00:21:02,435 --> 00:21:03,665 But any is something different? 435 00:21:03,665 --> 00:21:05,225 You wanna explain the difference? 436 00:21:05,285 --> 00:21:09,455 And how use what, what purpose I guess it serves. 437 00:21:09,615 --> 00:21:10,105 Yeah. 438 00:21:10,925 --> 00:21:11,075 Yeah. 439 00:21:11,075 --> 00:21:14,775 Antoine van der Lee (guest): So the reason there's no Swift 6 release is 440 00:21:14,775 --> 00:21:17,585 because Swift team is still working on. 441 00:21:18,045 --> 00:21:23,655 Like, like the final pieces of memory safety or basically they wanna let us 442 00:21:23,655 --> 00:21:27,255 develop without thinking about all the difficult things of memory management 443 00:21:27,295 --> 00:21:28,575 and, and all those kinda things. 444 00:21:28,575 --> 00:21:38,435 So we got existential, we got all those pieces over, make us move to 445 00:21:38,435 --> 00:21:45,425 switch 6 gracefully, existential, any the, any cured, completely lowercase. 446 00:21:45,760 --> 00:21:47,470 In a way it's not something new. 447 00:21:47,860 --> 00:21:51,220 What it, what it forces you is to think about the fact that you're using a 448 00:21:51,220 --> 00:21:53,620 protocol that can be of any kinda type. 449 00:21:54,400 --> 00:21:58,450 In other words, for the compiler, it's, it's hard to predict what 450 00:21:58,450 --> 00:22:02,560 type it'll be, so it can't do any, you know, memory optimizations 451 00:22:02,565 --> 00:22:04,030 or heap memory optimizations. 452 00:22:04,450 --> 00:22:09,880 Accordingly, if we take the body of a, I feel when we have to return some 453 00:22:10,090 --> 00:22:17,680 fuel, , the compiler will be able to determine the exact type at compile time. 454 00:22:18,220 --> 00:22:22,210 It'll be some view stack or maybe a text element. 455 00:22:22,630 --> 00:22:26,350 And because it knows that it's gonna be a fee stack, it can 456 00:22:26,410 --> 00:22:30,220 optimize memory allocation for it, and you get a better performance. 457 00:22:31,660 --> 00:22:35,410 So it's really about, you know, if you need to use any protocol, that should be. 458 00:22:36,655 --> 00:22:43,315 Like a sign, like maybe I can use Opaque types instead and be more precise 459 00:22:43,315 --> 00:22:44,725 about the type that's gonna be used. 460 00:22:45,315 --> 00:22:48,795 You'll also get type relations because the compiler notes which type it will. 461 00:22:50,145 --> 00:22:53,325 And yeah, you get a better performance overall. 462 00:22:54,555 --> 00:22:55,905 That's a really short summary of what it. 463 00:22:57,840 --> 00:23:00,090 Leo Dion (host): Well, I never heard the memory allocation story. 464 00:23:00,090 --> 00:23:01,410 That's really interesting. 465 00:23:01,560 --> 00:23:01,980 Like that. 466 00:23:01,980 --> 00:23:05,640 That's a big reasoning behind the, any keyword. 467 00:23:05,940 --> 00:23:07,650 I've, I started using it mm-hmm. 468 00:23:07,730 --> 00:23:09,960 and then I ended up getting stuck in a lot of places. 469 00:23:09,965 --> 00:23:10,050 Mm-hmm. 470 00:23:10,490 --> 00:23:13,500 and ended up going back to just using What's it called? 471 00:23:13,500 --> 00:23:15,060 Constraints on my types. 472 00:23:15,060 --> 00:23:15,120 Yeah. 473 00:23:15,180 --> 00:23:17,160 And sticking with the old way. 474 00:23:17,160 --> 00:23:19,770 So I'm kind of in that boat where it's like the, any keyword I don't 475 00:23:19,770 --> 00:23:23,100 understand because I'll use it and then the compiler will be like, yeah, you 476 00:23:23,100 --> 00:23:24,990 can't do this thing because it's an any. 477 00:23:25,480 --> 00:23:28,900 And then I just go back to using generics and where 478 00:23:28,900 --> 00:23:30,280 constraints and things like that. 479 00:23:30,310 --> 00:23:35,530 Like how have you found, what have you found the convenience of the, any keyword 480 00:23:35,530 --> 00:23:38,410 and where have you found it useful? 481 00:23:39,355 --> 00:23:41,515 Antoine van der Lee (guest): Yeah, so the, the tricky part for me is that 482 00:23:41,785 --> 00:23:47,545 so, so Xcode 14 will suggest you in places to use any keyword as well. 483 00:23:48,235 --> 00:23:52,135 While in many of those cases you could actually use some. 484 00:23:52,795 --> 00:23:55,855 And with that, Gain a better, better performance. 485 00:23:55,855 --> 00:23:58,915 And to get back to the performance, it's, it's a really small hit. 486 00:23:58,915 --> 00:24:00,865 I don't think you'll really notice it. 487 00:24:01,175 --> 00:24:04,775 I, I could send you a link on Swift forums where it's explained in a bit more 488 00:24:04,780 --> 00:24:06,305 detail for those that are interested. 489 00:24:06,635 --> 00:24:06,755 Okay. 490 00:24:06,855 --> 00:24:10,455 But yeah, nevertheless, I, I didn't really use any. 491 00:24:11,700 --> 00:24:12,150 That much. 492 00:24:12,150 --> 00:24:12,390 Yeah. 493 00:24:12,870 --> 00:24:16,500 I went over the code base as WeTransfer, and what I did is I was looking for 494 00:24:16,980 --> 00:24:21,390 kind of like those, those type ratio types where we had an any experiment 495 00:24:21,390 --> 00:24:26,220 type which would kind of like, yeah, type, erase the actual experiment, 496 00:24:26,670 --> 00:24:30,250 but it would allow us to pass that through throughout the globe base. 497 00:24:30,540 --> 00:24:34,650 Yeah, we, we could now replace that with the lowercase any, and then just reuse 498 00:24:34,650 --> 00:24:36,660 the experiment protocol type that we had. 499 00:24:37,350 --> 00:24:37,740 I think. 500 00:24:39,330 --> 00:24:45,070 Another big improvement is I don't know this error by mind, but if you 501 00:24:45,070 --> 00:24:46,990 see it, you recognize it for sure. 502 00:24:47,280 --> 00:24:50,220 If you had an associated type in a protocol and you would use 503 00:24:50,220 --> 00:24:54,180 it as a generic, you would get like, you can't use this protocol 504 00:24:54,180 --> 00:24:56,520 because it has self constraints. 505 00:24:56,880 --> 00:24:57,870 Some, something like that. 506 00:24:57,900 --> 00:24:58,110 Yeah. 507 00:24:58,650 --> 00:24:58,950 Right. 508 00:24:59,280 --> 00:24:59,430 Yep. 509 00:24:59,430 --> 00:24:59,940 It felt. 510 00:25:01,305 --> 00:25:02,595 Why isn't this working right? 511 00:25:02,595 --> 00:25:03,885 Like it should just work. 512 00:25:03,975 --> 00:25:06,875 And it's what they literally did in this first session. 513 00:25:06,875 --> 00:25:09,605 They did like it now suddenly works, right? 514 00:25:09,845 --> 00:25:14,855 They removed that constraint and I think that opens up more doors than we realize 515 00:25:14,855 --> 00:25:16,805 because it now won't just naturally work. 516 00:25:16,865 --> 00:25:20,135 You don't really realize that constraint is gone when you use it. 517 00:25:20,185 --> 00:25:23,665 But it'll yeah, allow us to write more optimized 518 00:25:23,665 --> 00:25:23,905 Leo Dion (host): code. 519 00:25:25,900 --> 00:25:29,830 I have like this talk in the back of my head about how to use associated types 520 00:25:29,830 --> 00:25:35,590 and generics and, and how, how they work because they're really useful. 521 00:25:35,900 --> 00:25:39,770 But yeah, I, I can see a lot of now and probably inter even intermediate 522 00:25:39,775 --> 00:25:43,040 Swift developers just being like, screw, I don't, I don't want it, 523 00:25:43,040 --> 00:25:45,560 deal with it because of, like you said, you get things like that. 524 00:25:45,740 --> 00:25:45,860 Yeah. 525 00:25:45,860 --> 00:25:49,010 Where it's like the self, it's like you can't use it and Yeah. 526 00:25:49,550 --> 00:25:51,230 I, I totally understand where you're going. 527 00:25:52,025 --> 00:25:52,145 Yeah, 528 00:25:52,955 --> 00:25:54,545 Antoine van der Lee (guest): but this is, this is a good point, right? 529 00:25:54,545 --> 00:25:58,835 Like for, for those listening that are like intimidating by the fact 530 00:25:58,835 --> 00:26:02,435 that there's generics and there's Opaque types, existential any, I 531 00:26:02,435 --> 00:26:05,675 think it's really important to know that these are just tools in your 532 00:26:05,680 --> 00:26:09,935 tool set that you could use, but it's definitely not mandatory to use them. 533 00:26:10,305 --> 00:26:13,400 You could write the same code solutions without generics. 534 00:26:13,510 --> 00:26:15,970 It's a bit more duplicate code, less reusable, maybe. 535 00:26:16,290 --> 00:26:16,530 Yeah. 536 00:26:16,560 --> 00:26:17,730 But in most cases, that's more. 537 00:26:18,730 --> 00:26:20,770 Leo Dion (host): So let's talk about one of the apps, I 538 00:26:20,770 --> 00:26:22,270 think, I think you debuted it. 539 00:26:22,270 --> 00:26:25,070 This here is Stock Analyzer. 540 00:26:25,070 --> 00:26:26,900 You wanna talk about your experience with that? 541 00:26:27,530 --> 00:26:27,980 Yeah. 542 00:26:28,070 --> 00:26:28,370 Antoine van der Lee (guest): Yeah. 543 00:26:28,370 --> 00:26:34,280 So before Stock Analyzer, I always had that, that eagerness to release 544 00:26:34,280 --> 00:26:35,960 an app on the iOS app store. 545 00:26:36,290 --> 00:26:40,610 That's not per se, developer related, that's more for the bigger crowd. 546 00:26:40,990 --> 00:26:45,540 And also an app where I can really jump on new features whenever WWDC 547 00:26:45,565 --> 00:26:47,170 comes with a major iOS update. 548 00:26:47,710 --> 00:26:54,610 And last year, January, I happened to start looking into stock investments 549 00:26:54,940 --> 00:26:58,900 and naturally I started to learn about all kinds of ratios, like price to 550 00:26:58,900 --> 00:27:00,790 earnings and all those kinda new metrics. 551 00:27:01,915 --> 00:27:04,975 I didn't really understand and, and the last thing I wanted to 552 00:27:04,975 --> 00:27:08,245 do is read up on them every month when I did my monthly investment. 553 00:27:08,245 --> 00:27:08,515 Right. 554 00:27:08,515 --> 00:27:09,765 So okay. 555 00:27:09,915 --> 00:27:13,015 I, I, I guess I started with like an Excel sheet like everybody does when you 556 00:27:13,015 --> 00:27:18,035 start investing and I, I quickly realized I need a tool and I want that tool to 557 00:27:18,185 --> 00:27:19,895 tell me like, okay, this is a good. 558 00:27:20,405 --> 00:27:21,155 Price, two earnings. 559 00:27:22,055 --> 00:27:22,325 Right. 560 00:27:22,425 --> 00:27:25,215 And that's when, when I started thinking about an app, which turned 561 00:27:25,215 --> 00:27:28,635 out to be Stock Analyzer, which gives you like a score from A to 562 00:27:28,725 --> 00:27:32,355 E, whether or not the rat is good. 563 00:27:32,825 --> 00:27:37,655 In, in theory if everything is an A, meaning everything is 564 00:27:37,655 --> 00:27:39,615 green you should buy that stock. 565 00:27:39,705 --> 00:27:43,485 That's, that's the id Yeah, I'm, I'm very much learning stock investment 566 00:27:43,485 --> 00:27:47,755 and, and Stock Analyzer is kinda like a nice tool side that I can use for both 567 00:27:47,755 --> 00:27:51,760 my stock learning as well as, you know building new features like, like log 568 00:27:51,760 --> 00:27:53,320 screen widgets and those kinda things. 569 00:27:53,320 --> 00:27:53,710 Last year, 570 00:27:54,710 --> 00:27:58,070 Leo Dion (host): what, what did you learn out of the experience building 571 00:27:58,170 --> 00:28:01,920 an app or a wider audience that you didn't know before you started? 572 00:28:02,920 --> 00:28:05,470 Antoine van der Lee (guest): Well, , it's quite painful actually. 573 00:28:06,925 --> 00:28:08,245 It's a stocks app, right? 574 00:28:08,245 --> 00:28:11,545 And in a way, I'm advising on finance. 575 00:28:12,295 --> 00:28:16,195 And it turned out that Apple is not really willing to promote or 576 00:28:16,195 --> 00:28:18,115 feature apps that are in that sector. 577 00:28:18,205 --> 00:28:21,905 So some, some are mid, mid 22. 578 00:28:21,905 --> 00:28:24,775 I realized that, which was which was disappointing. 579 00:28:25,105 --> 00:28:27,115 But that's kind of like a side story, right? 580 00:28:27,415 --> 00:28:33,355 What, I guess what I, what I, what I learned is, If you build up an app nicely 581 00:28:33,355 --> 00:28:38,545 with modules and search I got another app which is also built using a save modules. 582 00:28:39,085 --> 00:28:42,325 Mm-hmm , it, it allows me to move really fast and, and the 583 00:28:42,745 --> 00:28:43,975 widgets and the other widgets. 584 00:28:43,975 --> 00:28:47,125 I build it quite, quite fast because I had all that code 585 00:28:47,825 --> 00:28:49,505 ready to be reused in packages. 586 00:28:49,985 --> 00:28:53,465 I wouldn't say that it's per se a learning from stock analyzer, but it's 587 00:28:53,465 --> 00:28:57,575 at least a learning that I take with me that for personal side projects. 588 00:28:58,340 --> 00:29:02,990 It pays off even more to have those packages, your own kinda modules. 589 00:29:03,350 --> 00:29:05,770 It's called the Swiftly sdk, but you 590 00:29:05,770 --> 00:29:05,850 Leo Dion (host): know. 591 00:29:06,850 --> 00:29:08,640 I'm totally like on board with that. 592 00:29:08,640 --> 00:29:12,390 Like all of my apps now are just basically bunch of Swift packages 593 00:29:12,390 --> 00:29:16,950 connected together with like minimal code and the actual app base. 594 00:29:17,340 --> 00:29:22,270 So yeah, that's, it's become easier and easier over the years as Swift 595 00:29:22,275 --> 00:29:24,850 package manager has matured quite a bit. 596 00:29:26,470 --> 00:29:26,710 Yeah. 597 00:29:26,710 --> 00:29:27,070 And, and 598 00:29:27,160 --> 00:29:30,820 Antoine van der Lee (guest): you need to be prepared for whatever comes next year. 599 00:29:30,820 --> 00:29:31,030 Right. 600 00:29:31,750 --> 00:29:35,050 It's, it's very likely that we will get another extension. 601 00:29:35,050 --> 00:29:37,480 And you wanna reuse that API layer. 602 00:29:37,600 --> 00:29:37,900 Right. 603 00:29:37,900 --> 00:29:39,240 And if it's all in your Yeah. 604 00:29:39,240 --> 00:29:42,790 In your main project, you need to go over each file individually, add 605 00:29:42,790 --> 00:29:44,620 them to the target that you created. 606 00:29:44,620 --> 00:29:47,530 You know, it's, it's, it's painful to maintain. 607 00:29:47,530 --> 00:29:47,590 Yeah. 608 00:29:47,680 --> 00:29:51,910 Whereas if it's a package already, just include a package and you can go 609 00:29:51,910 --> 00:29:54,580 Leo Dion (host): ahead and, Yeah. 610 00:29:54,580 --> 00:29:55,330 Yeah, totally. 611 00:29:55,950 --> 00:29:59,480 Let's talk about your other big app that you've been, I mean, I don't know how 612 00:29:59,480 --> 00:30:03,470 old it is, but Rocket Sim, how long, how long have you been working on Rocket Sim? 613 00:30:03,830 --> 00:30:04,190 Yeah, 614 00:30:04,210 --> 00:30:08,030 Antoine van der Lee (guest): I think, I think 2018 was version 1.0, which 615 00:30:08,030 --> 00:30:13,190 was a really simple status bar app where you could execute very basic. 616 00:30:13,910 --> 00:30:15,980 Leo Dion (host): What was the bake, what did you introduce, I guess, 617 00:30:15,980 --> 00:30:20,820 this year in Rocket Sim and, and how, how has that experience been? 618 00:30:21,180 --> 00:30:23,250 Just as somebody in the same space, excuse me. 619 00:30:24,250 --> 00:30:24,490 Yeah. 620 00:30:24,700 --> 00:30:28,690 As someone in the same space who's been building dev tools, what's, 621 00:30:28,810 --> 00:30:31,900 what kind of have you learned through your experience with Rocket? 622 00:30:32,875 --> 00:30:33,115 Yeah. 623 00:30:33,115 --> 00:30:33,535 So 624 00:30:33,805 --> 00:30:36,655 Antoine van der Lee (guest): first of all, I'm, I'm super fortunate to be able 625 00:30:36,655 --> 00:30:42,265 to build a developer tool while I also have Swiftly targeting developers, right? 626 00:30:42,265 --> 00:30:47,205 So I, I'm, I'm using get up for book reports and feedback and switch because I 627 00:30:47,205 --> 00:30:50,755 know I got developers they know how Get Up works and that's, that's super convenient. 628 00:30:50,755 --> 00:30:51,035 Yeah. 629 00:30:51,495 --> 00:30:53,325 It, it's a super fun project, to be honest. 630 00:30:53,325 --> 00:30:55,835 I'm I'm, I'm building like, it's a simulator tool, right? 631 00:30:55,835 --> 00:30:59,295 So you can see like a floating window next to the simulator and it 632 00:30:59,505 --> 00:31:04,015 provides you with all kinda extra features like recording with touches 633 00:31:04,045 --> 00:31:05,630 recording with landscape support. 634 00:31:06,240 --> 00:31:09,600 Device vessels you can compare design on top of the simulator. 635 00:31:09,990 --> 00:31:13,170 Over, over the years, I started to adopt more and more features 636 00:31:13,230 --> 00:31:14,610 also based on use of feedback. 637 00:31:14,670 --> 00:31:18,540 Cause many developers, you know, they develop every day and they find 638 00:31:18,540 --> 00:31:24,270 themselves doing repetitive tasks, realizing like, Hey, I, I can improve 639 00:31:24,270 --> 00:31:27,330 the flow and it should be great if it's, if it's in rocket sync. 640 00:31:28,330 --> 00:31:34,455 Why it's super foreign is because I'm, I'm, after going into Exco, I run through 641 00:31:34,455 --> 00:31:38,955 all those directories inside the Xcode app and eventually I found out that 642 00:31:38,955 --> 00:31:41,085 the simulator is built out of slices. 643 00:31:41,655 --> 00:31:46,775 So and it's a funny story actually because the device bas feature in Rocket Sim is 644 00:31:46,775 --> 00:31:51,275 actually rebuilding the simulator using the slices that are in the app file. 645 00:31:51,705 --> 00:31:56,145 So I got like a speech few that's using all those, those slices. 646 00:31:57,420 --> 00:32:02,700 It also means that if, if NewCo version is out, I directly support a new simulator 647 00:32:03,120 --> 00:32:04,830 because I'm just reusing what they use. 648 00:32:04,830 --> 00:32:06,420 It's like an info list file. 649 00:32:07,620 --> 00:32:07,920 I dunno. 650 00:32:07,920 --> 00:32:11,680 It's, it's super fun and Because, because I have the, the design comparison 651 00:32:11,680 --> 00:32:15,730 feature, I know exactly where the screen of the simulator is on your next screen. 652 00:32:16,070 --> 00:32:20,025 And I can do all kinds of things there, which is why I released Rockets eighth 653 00:32:20,505 --> 00:32:27,075 in May with a grids and a rulers version where you can show a grid nice, on top of 654 00:32:27,075 --> 00:32:30,275 your app, show rulers to online elements. 655 00:32:30,815 --> 00:32:34,805 And yeah, as we speak, I'm close to releasing Rocket 9.0. 656 00:32:35,690 --> 00:32:39,550 Super excited about that one, where you can test post notifications and deep 657 00:32:39,555 --> 00:32:44,080 links using so-called Quick actions, which we'll show next to your simulator. 658 00:32:44,080 --> 00:32:47,650 So you can directly click on it and you know, the post notification 659 00:32:47,650 --> 00:32:51,320 will show up or the will be executed which opens all kinds 660 00:32:51,320 --> 00:32:52,100 Leo Dion (host): of new features. 661 00:32:53,690 --> 00:32:55,100 Is Rocket Sim on the app store? 662 00:32:55,370 --> 00:32:57,050 It's, yeah. 663 00:32:57,260 --> 00:32:57,590 Okay. 664 00:32:57,650 --> 00:32:58,370 Sand Books amazing. 665 00:32:58,370 --> 00:32:59,570 Has it always been on the app store? 666 00:33:00,110 --> 00:33:00,440 Sorry. 667 00:33:02,090 --> 00:33:03,590 Has it always been in the App store? 668 00:33:03,620 --> 00:33:03,860 Yeah. 669 00:33:04,520 --> 00:33:04,760 Antoine van der Lee (guest): Yeah. 670 00:33:04,760 --> 00:33:05,810 So, okay. 671 00:33:05,990 --> 00:33:08,630 I think I didn't really want to go that route of having to promote 672 00:33:08,630 --> 00:33:12,830 it myself, plus it feels more secure if it's in the app store. 673 00:33:13,580 --> 00:33:16,190 That was kinda my, my totally feeling behind it. 674 00:33:16,190 --> 00:33:20,720 And I had a moment where I tried to switch it out of the app 675 00:33:20,720 --> 00:33:23,120 store because I was just annoyed. 676 00:33:23,510 --> 00:33:26,420 It's, it's really hard to support a simulator. 677 00:33:27,095 --> 00:33:30,275 When you are sandboxed, right, you need to use same ctl. 678 00:33:30,765 --> 00:33:33,885 I need to ask access for all kinds of folders. 679 00:33:34,245 --> 00:33:37,095 Yeah, and if you're not sandboxed, that opens up the doors. 680 00:33:37,195 --> 00:33:41,155 But then you need to manage updating, using, using pedal and all those kind 681 00:33:41,155 --> 00:33:43,765 of tools, which was quite a pain. 682 00:33:44,035 --> 00:33:45,145 So I quickly stopped. 683 00:33:46,145 --> 00:33:50,915 Leo Dion (host): One thing I want to talk about is that you are either 684 00:33:50,915 --> 00:33:56,735 this year or next, or last year, you worked on doing team licenses. 685 00:33:56,945 --> 00:34:01,085 Speaking of the App store, how does that work with Rockets Sim and, and what, 686 00:34:01,475 --> 00:34:02,915 like, how, how does that even work? 687 00:34:02,915 --> 00:34:06,485 I don't even understand how you could do a team of licenses through the app store. 688 00:34:07,115 --> 00:34:07,295 Yeah. 689 00:34:07,295 --> 00:34:07,965 So the app 690 00:34:07,965 --> 00:34:09,615 Antoine van der Lee (guest): store doesn't support it, obviously, right? 691 00:34:09,615 --> 00:34:12,240 So, How it basically works. 692 00:34:12,240 --> 00:34:17,380 I'm using gibro, and Gibro comes with a license api and okay. 693 00:34:18,080 --> 00:34:22,490 How, how I compare it is that you have a Netflix account. 694 00:34:23,180 --> 00:34:25,430 And you bought that account on netflix.com. 695 00:34:25,860 --> 00:34:28,410 You install the iOS application and you log in. 696 00:34:28,800 --> 00:34:29,880 You're already premium. 697 00:34:29,940 --> 00:34:31,770 You didn't purchase it through the app store. 698 00:34:32,200 --> 00:34:36,495 It's kind of the same with with the license implementation, where the license 699 00:34:36,495 --> 00:34:42,615 key can be activated and it'll use the com road API to, to validate that according. 700 00:34:44,310 --> 00:34:44,670 Leo Dion (host): Okay. 701 00:34:44,880 --> 00:34:48,330 So basically where you have in-app purchases, there's a way to activate 702 00:34:48,330 --> 00:34:49,770 the license via Gum Road more. 703 00:34:49,770 --> 00:34:50,130 Exactly. 704 00:34:50,190 --> 00:34:50,520 Okay. 705 00:34:51,550 --> 00:34:53,700 How, how do you like working with Gum Road? 706 00:34:53,760 --> 00:34:58,680 Did you find out like, yeah, you work with, or yeah, I think I, 707 00:34:58,680 --> 00:35:00,960 Antoine van der Lee (guest): I, I looked at different options and Gum 708 00:35:00,960 --> 00:35:03,750 Road was just most known to myself. 709 00:35:04,490 --> 00:35:06,860 I do believe they changed their pricing this year, which isn't. 710 00:35:08,345 --> 00:35:10,895 In many paper yeah, I dunno. 711 00:35:11,375 --> 00:35:12,185 It works out for me. 712 00:35:12,185 --> 00:35:14,465 And they had a nice API that's simple to use. 713 00:35:14,465 --> 00:35:16,415 So yeah, for me it worked out. 714 00:35:17,450 --> 00:35:19,520 Leo Dion (host): Yeah, we had Jordi on the, on the show and 715 00:35:19,520 --> 00:35:21,590 he uses Gum Road quite a bit. 716 00:35:21,620 --> 00:35:21,800 Mm-hmm. 717 00:35:22,040 --> 00:35:26,750 , we never, you know, you never think about gum road for software necessarily. 718 00:35:26,750 --> 00:35:28,040 It's usually books. 719 00:35:28,250 --> 00:35:28,430 Yeah. 720 00:35:28,490 --> 00:35:30,890 But the way he uses it is really novel. 721 00:35:30,970 --> 00:35:32,170 And, and, and, cool. 722 00:35:32,230 --> 00:35:36,390 So yeah, I was super curious about your team licenses on gun r gum Road. 723 00:35:37,200 --> 00:35:38,460 Did you buy a new phone this year? 724 00:35:39,450 --> 00:35:40,080 I did not. 725 00:35:40,680 --> 00:35:41,130 Antoine van der Lee (guest): No. 726 00:35:41,550 --> 00:35:41,880 No. 727 00:35:41,940 --> 00:35:42,260 Okay. 728 00:35:44,130 --> 00:35:45,570 No, no, I was happy with my phone. 729 00:35:45,640 --> 00:35:50,310 I, I, I think it wasn't significant, changed enough for me to say 730 00:35:50,310 --> 00:35:51,600 like, okay, I'll, I'll buy anyone. 731 00:35:52,170 --> 00:35:52,560 Did you 732 00:35:53,490 --> 00:35:53,790 Leo Dion (host): no. 733 00:35:53,795 --> 00:35:54,930 No, I didn't either. 734 00:35:54,930 --> 00:35:58,440 I have an 11 Pro Max and other than the battery, it's fine. 735 00:35:58,590 --> 00:35:59,340 Totally fine. 736 00:35:59,830 --> 00:36:04,115 Well, the reason I, I wanted to ask, not just cuz it's what we ask on shows like 737 00:36:04,115 --> 00:36:09,135 this, but like, You did widgets with stock analyzer, did you look at anything with 738 00:36:09,135 --> 00:36:15,095 like live activities or the dynamic island as it's called, with either your apps? 739 00:36:15,455 --> 00:36:16,055 Yeah, I, 740 00:36:16,265 --> 00:36:19,205 Antoine van der Lee (guest): I, I did have like IDs for maybe showing 741 00:36:19,205 --> 00:36:24,435 the stock price constantly or something, but it didn't really felt. 742 00:36:25,920 --> 00:36:27,360 Really like an add us value. 743 00:36:27,710 --> 00:36:30,350 You know, the, the thing with side projects, there's only 744 00:36:30,350 --> 00:36:31,400 so much you can do, right? 745 00:36:31,400 --> 00:36:35,480 So you, you need to pick your battles and for me, life activities wasn't, 746 00:36:35,540 --> 00:36:40,470 wasn't really worth my time and effort in terms of like the return of investment. 747 00:36:40,920 --> 00:36:43,620 If, if I were to have like an app word, it makes total sense. 748 00:36:43,620 --> 00:36:45,990 Like, like it does for, for an Uber or something. 749 00:36:46,380 --> 00:36:46,620 Yeah. 750 00:36:46,620 --> 00:36:49,950 And then I would probably also find more reason to buy that phone. 751 00:36:50,950 --> 00:36:50,955 . Leo Dion (host): Yeah. 752 00:36:50,955 --> 00:36:54,045 I mean, it sounds like Stock Analyzer is much more analytical. 753 00:36:54,135 --> 00:36:54,225 Mm-hmm. 754 00:36:54,585 --> 00:36:58,035 than just like, oh, I am constantly looking at the stocks and figuring 755 00:36:58,040 --> 00:37:00,165 out how to, how to say ahead. 756 00:37:00,345 --> 00:37:00,615 Yeah. 757 00:37:00,885 --> 00:37:02,085 So yeah, I totally agree. 758 00:37:02,295 --> 00:37:05,115 And I'm in the same boat where it's just like, is it worth my time? 759 00:37:05,805 --> 00:37:09,975 Like, you know, will it extend my app store exposure, I guess? 760 00:37:10,085 --> 00:37:12,515 Or will it be useful to the customers? 761 00:37:12,520 --> 00:37:15,065 Like, yeah, that's kind of the questions you have to ask when 762 00:37:15,065 --> 00:37:16,295 you have finite amount of. 763 00:37:17,030 --> 00:37:19,010 Antoine van der Lee (guest): That's, that's the reason you could do it, right? 764 00:37:19,010 --> 00:37:24,600 Like to jump on that boat of the September official release of iOS 16 765 00:37:25,060 --> 00:37:29,170 be part of all those lists where you, you'll be listed because you support lock 766 00:37:29,175 --> 00:37:30,940 screen widgets or those kind of lists. 767 00:37:31,510 --> 00:37:31,840 Right. 768 00:37:32,020 --> 00:37:35,470 But yeah, that's, that's where I realize that I'm not going to be featured 769 00:37:35,470 --> 00:37:37,570 soon cause I'm a financial advisor. 770 00:37:37,900 --> 00:37:39,250 So the, the, the, yeah. 771 00:37:39,250 --> 00:37:39,910 That intent 772 00:37:39,910 --> 00:37:40,330 Leo Dion (host): was lost. 773 00:37:40,330 --> 00:37:40,780 Yeah. 774 00:37:40,785 --> 00:37:40,990 Yeah. 775 00:37:41,470 --> 00:37:43,270 Live activit is not gonna change that. 776 00:37:43,270 --> 00:37:43,630 No. 777 00:37:44,785 --> 00:37:47,425 Well, thing about, I wanted to touch on, just jumping back on Stock 778 00:37:47,425 --> 00:37:53,765 Analyzer is you wanna do some, you want to port it to the Mac, the iPad. 779 00:37:54,485 --> 00:37:58,815 Did you say TV in the, I don't know if you said tv, but you wanted to do a 780 00:37:58,820 --> 00:38:00,825 multi-platform app with Stock Analyzer. 781 00:38:00,825 --> 00:38:04,345 What's your, like, what's your plan for that and how does that, 782 00:38:04,375 --> 00:38:08,305 how does that work with the way you've architected the app already? 783 00:38:09,085 --> 00:38:10,045 Yeah, so I think 784 00:38:10,165 --> 00:38:15,835 Antoine van der Lee (guest): the, the biggest question here is like, so apps 785 00:38:15,865 --> 00:38:19,675 are often iPhone only because they're still validating their concept, right? 786 00:38:19,705 --> 00:38:22,045 They're still finding out what, where they wanna be. 787 00:38:22,615 --> 00:38:28,495 And if you expect big UI chases, you don't wanna do that on all those platforms. 788 00:38:28,495 --> 00:38:32,425 You kind of wanna know like, okay, this concept works and I can 789 00:38:32,425 --> 00:38:36,595 now focus on making that optimal for iPad and macros as well. 790 00:38:38,365 --> 00:38:43,615 I guess for, for me, with still analyzing first, first and foremost, it was about, 791 00:38:43,615 --> 00:38:47,705 you know, building out the concept, validating that users want to use it and. 792 00:38:48,265 --> 00:38:53,065 Not spending all my time on just adding iPad or support first spend 793 00:38:53,065 --> 00:38:56,845 all my time that I have, if I even have the time to work on stock, analyze 794 00:38:56,935 --> 00:38:58,285 cause of all other things that I do. 795 00:38:58,735 --> 00:39:02,935 Focus on adding extra ratios and, and financial data and those kind of things. 796 00:39:03,835 --> 00:39:07,095 So for, for this year I believe that I'm, I'm at a point where I can 797 00:39:07,095 --> 00:39:11,445 start thinking about it and how it works from an architectural point 798 00:39:11,445 --> 00:39:14,910 of view is I, I got a few options. 799 00:39:14,910 --> 00:39:18,130 I can use Mac catalysts and I can use POS silicone. 800 00:39:18,470 --> 00:39:20,690 I looked at that POS silicone and it didn't really felt 801 00:39:20,960 --> 00:39:22,550 that that was the way forward. 802 00:39:23,010 --> 00:39:29,700 I could also use AppD, but I think in the case of Stock Analyzer, it's gonna 803 00:39:29,700 --> 00:39:31,950 be like a, a window app as well, right? 804 00:39:31,950 --> 00:39:34,060 It's not gonna be like a status bar app, which is. 805 00:39:34,665 --> 00:39:36,865 To manage when you use catalyst. 806 00:39:37,455 --> 00:39:42,225 I think it makes total sense to, to use Catalyst combined with an iPad app and, 807 00:39:42,230 --> 00:39:43,890 and build those those two together. 808 00:39:44,760 --> 00:39:48,500 And another thing HIDA, I'm not sure if he's gonna watch this. 809 00:39:48,560 --> 00:39:51,115 It is a big favor of Whatwe applications. 810 00:39:51,115 --> 00:39:53,485 He's a friend of mine and he pushes me constantly. 811 00:39:53,485 --> 00:39:54,680 You need to build what I said. 812 00:39:55,070 --> 00:39:58,610 So that's another thing I wanna explore, because if you have widgets 813 00:39:58,950 --> 00:40:02,600 it should be fairly simple to at least add complications, complication. 814 00:40:02,930 --> 00:40:03,230 Yeah. 815 00:40:03,380 --> 00:40:05,290 So that could be kind like a nice quick 816 00:40:06,290 --> 00:40:06,780 Leo Dion (host): Yeah. 817 00:40:06,780 --> 00:40:07,020 Yeah. 818 00:40:07,250 --> 00:40:08,470 That's awesome. 819 00:40:08,560 --> 00:40:12,760 I'm looking forward to seeing the progress and story on that this year. 820 00:40:13,570 --> 00:40:14,290 Let's see. 821 00:40:15,370 --> 00:40:16,390 Do you wanna talk about Server side? 822 00:40:16,390 --> 00:40:16,870 Swift? 823 00:40:17,830 --> 00:40:18,280 I don't know 824 00:40:18,280 --> 00:40:19,540 Antoine van der Lee (guest): much about it to be honest. 825 00:40:19,540 --> 00:40:22,570 So it'll be really general and I dunno. 826 00:40:22,600 --> 00:40:22,720 Okay. 827 00:40:24,100 --> 00:40:26,320 Leo Dion (host): We'll save that for the next episode then, because 828 00:40:26,390 --> 00:40:29,320 in the next episode we'll have Dave Andon who run the Okay. 829 00:40:29,600 --> 00:40:30,920 Swift package index. 830 00:40:30,980 --> 00:40:31,190 Yeah. 831 00:40:31,250 --> 00:40:31,430 Better. 832 00:40:31,450 --> 00:40:35,360 And they, they know much more about it, so I totally, I totally agree. 833 00:40:35,720 --> 00:40:36,680 That's, that's fine. 834 00:40:37,310 --> 00:40:39,650 Anything else you wanna talk about, I guess before we close out? 835 00:40:40,650 --> 00:40:41,280 Antoine van der Lee (guest): Maybe, yeah. 836 00:40:41,280 --> 00:40:41,610 I dunno. 837 00:40:41,610 --> 00:40:44,190 Maybe looking ahead to 2 23, that could be something. 838 00:40:45,780 --> 00:40:46,050 Leo Dion (host): Yeah. 839 00:40:46,055 --> 00:40:52,660 What are you, we'll probably have a new os, like a new totally new platform. 840 00:40:53,350 --> 00:40:58,500 It's looking like what, what's your, how about your, what's your list for the, 841 00:40:58,560 --> 00:41:01,170 for this year in terms of features you 842 00:41:01,170 --> 00:41:01,290 Antoine van der Lee (guest): mean? 843 00:41:03,120 --> 00:41:04,200 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 844 00:41:05,100 --> 00:41:05,760 Leo Dion (host): For developers? 845 00:41:06,210 --> 00:41:06,600 Yeah, for 846 00:41:06,600 --> 00:41:07,080 Antoine van der Lee (guest): developers. 847 00:41:07,760 --> 00:41:12,240 I, I think it's, you know, like I had the same question last year and 848 00:41:12,240 --> 00:41:13,950 I already found it hard to answer. 849 00:41:14,220 --> 00:41:18,420 I think the only thing I could really think of was something I'm constantly open 850 00:41:18,420 --> 00:41:24,840 for is a replacement of core data, and last year I had the insight that it'll 851 00:41:24,840 --> 00:41:27,960 not be a replacement, but an alternative. 852 00:41:28,845 --> 00:41:34,425 I don't really think they wanna do, you know, like an official migration 853 00:41:34,425 --> 00:41:37,815 from coordinated to Swift data or something that's gonna be super risky. 854 00:41:37,815 --> 00:41:37,875 Yeah. 855 00:41:37,905 --> 00:41:41,475 So if you, if you make it like an optin where develop need to do that themselves 856 00:41:41,480 --> 00:41:44,375 or something, I think it's more logical 857 00:41:44,715 --> 00:41:47,775 Leo Dion (host): or, well, it seems to be the pattern too with a lot of their stuff. 858 00:41:47,775 --> 00:41:51,745 Whether it's migrating to Swift or migrating to Swift UI. 859 00:41:51,795 --> 00:41:52,005 Yeah. 860 00:41:52,035 --> 00:41:55,155 Usually it's opt-in type thing with compatibility, some sort of. 861 00:41:57,150 --> 00:41:59,490 To to have the two talk to each other, I guess. 862 00:41:59,520 --> 00:41:59,820 Antoine van der Lee (guest): Yeah. 863 00:42:00,030 --> 00:42:00,930 Yeah, exactly. 864 00:42:00,930 --> 00:42:05,520 So, but other than that, I'm quite fulfilled. 865 00:42:05,580 --> 00:42:09,480 I don't know, I, I think I also have so much on my roadmap 866 00:42:09,480 --> 00:42:10,710 already to work on that. 867 00:42:10,710 --> 00:42:13,440 I kind, I'm kind like, you know, I'm not waiting for anything 868 00:42:13,440 --> 00:42:15,720 I've got to do, so I dunno. 869 00:42:15,780 --> 00:42:16,380 How, how about you? 870 00:42:16,380 --> 00:42:18,000 Do you have anything that you expect or. 871 00:42:19,000 --> 00:42:21,970 Leo Dion (host): What I hope for just kind of bug fixes. 872 00:42:22,180 --> 00:42:22,270 Mm-hmm. 873 00:42:22,470 --> 00:42:25,020 . In the last episode, I talked about the issues with my apples, 874 00:42:25,290 --> 00:42:26,700 like with my next studio. 875 00:42:26,700 --> 00:42:31,500 Weird little quirky issues that I kind of don't expect of a machine like this. 876 00:42:31,570 --> 00:42:33,280 I hope Xcode gets better. 877 00:42:33,370 --> 00:42:33,610 Yeah. 878 00:42:33,770 --> 00:42:37,820 I don't know about you, but I'm in having issues where it'll show me the error 879 00:42:37,820 --> 00:42:42,380 and then it'll hide it right away and I'll have to like clean and then build 880 00:42:42,380 --> 00:42:44,420 again, which can take a bit longer. 881 00:42:45,150 --> 00:42:47,430 I hope improvements, apple Watch development. 882 00:42:47,730 --> 00:42:52,530 We have this massive new watch and people still have issues developing on 883 00:42:52,535 --> 00:42:57,880 it, so I kind of hope we get something, some improvements in that, that way. 884 00:42:57,880 --> 00:43:02,380 Like even just, and I know it's not Apple style, but just kind of 885 00:43:03,130 --> 00:43:06,520 revealing a little bit like behind the curtain what's going on when an 886 00:43:06,520 --> 00:43:10,450 issue does come up so that we have better ways to, to, to work around it. 887 00:43:11,260 --> 00:43:13,430 I mean, I think that's kind of, that's kind of it. 888 00:43:13,460 --> 00:43:16,910 Like I feel like they really push features a lot, but at the same 889 00:43:16,910 --> 00:43:21,440 time, yeah, just sometimes basic stuff I run into issues with those 890 00:43:21,440 --> 00:43:22,700 would, that would be my wishlist. 891 00:43:22,750 --> 00:43:23,030 Yeah. 892 00:43:23,030 --> 00:43:25,310 Like so quality of life improvements. 893 00:43:25,310 --> 00:43:25,470 Yeah. 894 00:43:25,470 --> 00:43:25,910 My prediction. 895 00:43:26,660 --> 00:43:27,050 Yeah. 896 00:43:27,080 --> 00:43:31,430 I mean, my prediction is probably we're gonna get the thing that we're gonna put 897 00:43:31,430 --> 00:43:33,680 on our head probably in the next year. 898 00:43:34,640 --> 00:43:36,280 I'm not so sure it's gonna be a. 899 00:43:37,115 --> 00:43:40,895 But, you know, maybe it's gonna be a slow, slow thing, like the 900 00:43:40,895 --> 00:43:42,665 watch where eventually it picks up. 901 00:43:43,505 --> 00:43:47,705 I still don't, I don't, I don't have one, so I, I don't understand the 902 00:43:47,705 --> 00:43:49,475 appeal of them, but whatever, we'll see. 903 00:43:50,345 --> 00:43:53,495 I think that we'll probably get more Apple, silicon stuff. 904 00:43:53,495 --> 00:43:55,145 We'll probably get a Mac Pro this year. 905 00:43:56,315 --> 00:44:00,185 Yeah, I, I don't have a lot of predictions this year. 906 00:44:00,185 --> 00:44:01,115 I mean, it does seem. 907 00:44:02,255 --> 00:44:03,485 We'll talk about the next episode. 908 00:44:03,485 --> 00:44:05,075 It does seem Apple is really putting their. 909 00:44:06,575 --> 00:44:09,935 Behind Server Side Swift, they seem to be using, it seems to 910 00:44:09,935 --> 00:44:11,255 be used by a lot of companies. 911 00:44:11,255 --> 00:44:12,905 It seems like it's really mature now. 912 00:44:13,055 --> 00:44:13,295 Yeah. 913 00:44:13,455 --> 00:44:15,915 And I think that'll continue, continue to happen. 914 00:44:15,915 --> 00:44:18,375 But of course we'll talk about that more in the next episode. 915 00:44:18,405 --> 00:44:18,615 Yeah. 916 00:44:18,805 --> 00:44:22,335 And you'll also talk about Swift, but it seems like it's for real. 917 00:44:22,335 --> 00:44:26,455 It's not, it's not some, something for, for hackers and people who are 918 00:44:26,455 --> 00:44:28,315 just interested in quirky stuff. 919 00:44:28,375 --> 00:44:28,615 Yeah. 920 00:44:28,685 --> 00:44:30,345 Yeah, that, what do you predict? 921 00:44:30,345 --> 00:44:30,545 I. 922 00:44:31,535 --> 00:44:33,485 Antoine van der Lee (guest): Yeah, well, you, you just reminded me, 923 00:44:33,485 --> 00:44:38,315 and you'll talk about that with the, this, you know, the registry, which is 924 00:44:38,315 --> 00:44:40,295 something that's, that's on its way. 925 00:44:40,300 --> 00:44:44,555 But one thing I kind of run into lately is that things like 926 00:44:44,560 --> 00:44:45,845 fire days, for example, right? 927 00:44:45,845 --> 00:44:50,255 It's a, it's, it's a big repository with many kinds of packages. 928 00:44:50,645 --> 00:44:55,475 And if you include that in your project, the whole pository is cloned. 929 00:44:56,045 --> 00:44:56,855 Even though you only. 930 00:44:57,965 --> 00:44:59,465 Maybe one of those packages. 931 00:44:59,465 --> 00:44:59,795 Right. 932 00:45:00,155 --> 00:45:02,645 And, and yeah, and, and you can sort that out. 933 00:45:02,645 --> 00:45:07,035 There is like a open source solution where you use binary targets, 934 00:45:07,725 --> 00:45:09,675 but still it feels, it feels odd. 935 00:45:09,675 --> 00:45:13,935 So I think if we have a package registry, it's naturally solved and 936 00:45:14,325 --> 00:45:17,235 that will make things much faster in terms of Swift Package Manager. 937 00:45:17,235 --> 00:45:20,385 So I dunno, I really hope that that kicks off this year. 938 00:45:22,035 --> 00:45:22,215 Leo Dion (host): Yeah. 939 00:45:22,575 --> 00:45:22,905 Yeah. 940 00:45:22,905 --> 00:45:23,415 Agreed. 941 00:45:24,795 --> 00:45:25,665 Anything else you wanna talk about? 942 00:45:26,045 --> 00:45:27,075 We talked about a lot. 943 00:45:27,135 --> 00:45:29,265 Antoine van der Lee (guest): Yeah, we, we went a lot of routes. 944 00:45:29,265 --> 00:45:31,595 So I think I think it's, it, it's good like this. 945 00:45:31,600 --> 00:45:35,135 I'm excited for this year to come and I'm looking forward to release 946 00:45:35,135 --> 00:45:39,665 Rocket to everyone and hopefully see everyone we see in person. 947 00:45:41,345 --> 00:45:41,555 Leo Dion (host): Yeah. 948 00:45:41,825 --> 00:45:42,095 Yeah. 949 00:45:42,125 --> 00:45:44,085 Thank you so much Antoine, for coming on the show. 950 00:45:44,085 --> 00:45:44,855 I really appreciate it. 951 00:45:46,115 --> 00:45:46,625 Antoine van der Lee (guest): Thanks, Lori. 952 00:45:46,625 --> 00:45:49,580 Finding me over once again and already looking forward to coming back in the. 953 00:45:51,470 --> 00:45:51,980 Leo Dion (host): Yes. 954 00:45:51,980 --> 00:45:53,390 Yes, we'll definitely do that. 955 00:45:54,100 --> 00:45:55,450 Where could people find you online? 956 00:45:56,590 --> 00:45:57,970 Yeah, I don't know already. 957 00:45:58,240 --> 00:45:58,570 I'm one 958 00:45:58,570 --> 00:46:00,820 Antoine van der Lee (guest): of the few that's still trusting Twitter, . I 959 00:46:00,820 --> 00:46:04,110 also don't wanna leave behind my big audience there, so yeah, you 960 00:46:04,110 --> 00:46:07,410 can find me on Twitter at one lt. 961 00:46:08,745 --> 00:46:12,955 And l I'm pretty sure you're, you'll be able to put a link in the show notes. 962 00:46:13,255 --> 00:46:13,495 Yeah. 963 00:46:13,495 --> 00:46:15,025 Otherwise, yeah, follow my newsletter. 964 00:46:15,025 --> 00:46:17,845 I think that's the best way to stay up to date on everything that I 965 00:46:17,845 --> 00:46:20,885 do while you also stay up to date on everything in the community. 966 00:46:23,030 --> 00:46:25,820 Leo Dion (host): And we'll also have links to all this stuff we talked about 967 00:46:25,820 --> 00:46:28,250 today and some of the articles you've had. 968 00:46:28,370 --> 00:46:30,620 So yeah, thank you again. 969 00:46:31,310 --> 00:46:34,070 People can find me on Twitter at Leo g Dion. 970 00:46:34,130 --> 00:46:40,810 My Mastodon, because I have to say that now in 2023, is at Leo G dion@c.im. 971 00:46:41,400 --> 00:46:42,780 You can also find me on LinkedIn. 972 00:46:42,780 --> 00:46:45,040 If you're watching us on YouTube, I can subscribe. 973 00:46:45,045 --> 00:46:48,630 Please share it, let people know about this great episode. 974 00:46:49,140 --> 00:46:52,460 And also if you are listening to this on whatever podcast 975 00:46:52,460 --> 00:46:54,380 player, I'll ask every episode. 976 00:46:54,380 --> 00:46:54,920 Please review. 977 00:46:55,970 --> 00:46:57,620 And share with others. 978 00:46:57,830 --> 00:46:59,120 Happy New year to everybody. 979 00:46:59,300 --> 00:47:04,490 Welcome to 2023 and I look forward to talking to you next week with Dave 980 00:47:04,490 --> 00:47:07,100 and Sue on the Swift Package Index. 981 00:47:07,520 --> 00:47:09,800 Riverside, Swift, Swift, package Manager, all that stuff. 982 00:47:09,800 --> 00:47:12,090 So, Post your questions as soon as you can. 983 00:47:12,630 --> 00:47:14,580 Thank you so much and talk to you later. 984 00:47:14,700 --> 00:47:15,380 Bye everyone. 985 00:47:15,390 --> 00:47:16,060 Bye-bye.