HTTPS://Frequencymatters.org www.kristinmackey.com Spencer Horn (00:11) Well hello friends, this is Spencer Horn with Teamwork A Better Way podcast. I am so excited to be with you today and I am sorry that my illustrious and incredible co-host Christian Napier is not here. A great man of importance called away on other responsibilities and duties yet we still have the, really the most important part of why we're here today. And that is our guest, Kristen Mackey. (00:42) And I am so excited that you're here, because I know you're going to help me carry the show today without Christian. Kristin Mackey (00:49) We're going to do that as a teamwork effort. Spencer Horn (00:52) That's exactly right. I'm really excited to introduce our listeners to you. And today's episode is titled, you know, when teams resonate, the energy behind high performance. And so we're really going to be getting into that's what we talk about on this podcast. (01:07) We have listeners from all around the world and they're always looking for ways. How can I get my team to perform better? How can we get improved communication, alignment, all those things that they oftentimes teams struggle with. There's so much data that shows teams are struggling around the world. (01:26) But before we get into that, we want people to know more about you. So will you please indulge me while I introduce our audience to you. Kristen is creator and pioneer of the global phenomenon, Frequency Matters, The Energy Advantage. It's a book and we're going to be talking about this idea of frequency matters today. (01:49) Very excited about that. She's an expert on conscious leadership through the creative communication modality of emotional resonance. And she introduced this new paradigm in leadership and employee engagement. Manage your particles. (02:05) I love that. Manage your particles. Frequency matters. And yeah, get your particles under control, right? (02:16) which is qualitative and quantitative research and direct case studies that serve as a background and backbone, excuse me, I can't read, for her visionary and pioneering work in leadership, engagement, and lifestyle. And so she's worked with thousands of people in most industries, right? And so you've identified parallels and insights and then crystallized these ideas into the work that you speak about and write about. And so this is so cool. (02:52) So this idea of frequency, energy, and power, and embodying conscious mindset for exemplifying the behaviors that really foster this idea of resonance and coherence. You say you love making complicated concepts enjoyable, and I'm excited to see you in action do that because you like to make them relatable, and that's how people learn and grow. Because otherwise, those concepts don't get assimilated or incorporated, do they? So, as I said, I'm only halfway through this, but she has worked with such iconic customers such as Fountain Blue Miami, the Nemours Foundation, other clients including Hard Rock Casino and Resorts, City of Miami Beach, Lockheed Martin, the Nice Foundation, Lynn University, University of Delaware, Mercury, Media Children's (03:48) Services Council. You have a great place in your heart for nonprofit organizations, and you've done a lot of work with them. And you've appeared in places like The Balancing Act, Lifetime TV, Empowered, Kids TV, On Leadership with Scott Miller, Washington Times, Communities, Find Your Fire with Jim Healing. You've been in so many different shows, and oh my goodness, you've worked directly with leadership voices like Peter Drucker? (04:15) How did I not know that? And that's fantastic. And you have served as a keynote speaker for Franklin Covey's Speakers Bureau. So you have to talk to me about that and the hallmark of thought leadership. (04:28) So she has been a consultant for Franklin Covey for over 10 years. And we are going to be so fed at the feet of Kristen Mackey. Welcome to Teamwork a Better Way, Kristen. Kristin Mackey (04:42) Wow. Thank you so much, Spencer. That was such a wonderful introduction. I don't know who that is or who you're talking about, but it is an absolute honor to share this space with you and talk about some of these interesting concepts of frequency and energy and managing your particles, which I have a lot of fun with. (05:00) So thank you for having me. Spencer Horn (05:02) Thank you, I love that idea. Will you just give us, what got you into this work? I mean, how did you get started in it? What's your origin story? (05:10) Tell us about you. I know you're a Jersey girl now living in Florida, but where did this work come from? Kristin Mackey (05:18) It came from just being generally a sensitive person. I was very intuitive, very sensitive, and I was curious. I was very curious. I always wanted to know why things happened the way they did. (05:29) And I was, you know, where other folks were playing, I would be sitting there dissecting Roadkill and wanting to know how the system worked. So I was that kind of child. And it led me to many bookstores and many books and love books. And that journey, I stayed curious and I stayed open. (05:48) And so I would want to understand how I worked. How do I work? Why am I picking up on certain energies? You go into a room and you feel really great and you feel expansive and you're ready to go. (05:59) And then you go into other spaces and you feel this feeling of retraction sometimes. And so that led me to ask questions and the questions asked me to do the research and the research led me into experiences where I started to then see patterns and parallels. And that is what brought me to quantum physics or the energy behind what we often experience. And that then led me down the rabbit hole of managing your particles, as you mentioned, which is, you know, subatomic particles, the energy behind everything that we do. (06:30) So we have a lot of fun with it. We're playful with it. We stay curious. But there is something about the energy of things that underpins when teams really work and sometimes when they don't work. (06:42) And so that's what our work is about. Spencer Horn (06:44) So I'm curious, how does the energy feel today? I'm putting you on the spot. Kristin Mackey (06:51) Oh, it feels great. It's very soothing. You have a very soothing energy. Your particles, Spencer, are very soothing. (06:57) Interesting. I feel very grounded, and that's a good thing. Spencer Horn (07:00) I'm glad to hear that. Kristin Mackey (07:01) You're very grounding. Yes. Spencer Horn (07:03) I don't know that very many people would. Kristin Mackey (07:05) How are my particles? Am I managing my particles? You give me that same feedback. Spencer Horn (07:09) No, absolutely. I'm so glad to have you, and your energy is great. This just brings up a whole question when you talk about quantum physics. I'm so fascinated by the work of Niels Bohr and Werner Heisenberg, the Heisenberg principle. (07:24) One of the things that I can't ever explain is the Heisenberg principle. Basically, the fact of observing particles or subatomic matter influences their behavior. So basically, the way I understand it is thought influences matter. Is that your understanding? Kristin Mackey (07:41) Yes, and I think there's layers to that. The more that I observe and read, we know what it's like when we have a great mindset and our behaviors are where we want them to be, and we feed that space. We sort of experience momentum, positive things happen. But I think there's a layer to it that is fields of energy, or as you put earlier, systems, where you can have really great thoughts, but if you're in an environment that isn't supportive or conducive or positive, sometimes you may get off balance. (08:14) And that is really another element to our thoughts are things. I love the concept that our thoughts are things, that our thoughts shape our reality. I remember when I used to be a speaker years ago in my 20s, I would, you know, this is back in the day when we had transparencies, I would write down. Spencer Horn (08:35) You'd get grease pencils and write on those transparencies? Kristin Mackey (08:38) Yes, and we would have the marker and then it would be, yeah, I just really dated myself. Spencer Horn (08:43) So interactive. Kristin Mackey (08:45) I'm sorry, excuse me? Spencer Horn (08:46) I said that's so interactive. You could hear, let me point out with my grease pencil. Kristin Mackey (08:51) Right, right. And then it would be posted. But I would always put on everybody's workbook, your thoughts shape your experience. And it always started my program because I wanted folks to come not with what their challenges are, their issues are. (09:07) I wanted them to start with empowerment, that I am the driver of my experience. you know, at the baseline. And it doesn't mean we don't interact with other folks and we mix particles and we can certainly go down that rabbit hole, but at the core and at the foundation, our mind, our heart, our alignment, our grounded perspective is really where it starts, that locus of control being from within. (09:33) So I think starting from that space always gives my audience a lot of energy around moving forward from that space. Spencer Horn (09:42) That's fabulous. So let's focus back in. You know, you call your framework Frequency Matters. And for someone who's never heard that term applied to leadership, how do you explain what frequency actually means in the context of team? Kristin Mackey (09:59) a team. Frequency is the byproduct of the collective energy of the team. And when you have individuals separately, they might come to the table with really great energy a great mindset. But when you put people together, there's a different cocktail that happens. (10:18) It's just like nature. You throw different ingredients into something and it changes the nature of the whole. So one of the things that I like to expand upon is that we have to bring great ingredients to whatever it is that we're creating. So if we're creating a great dynamic team, we want each individual to bring their best self, their mindset to be in the right place, to bring their energy as unique as they are. (10:46) And then that frequency or that energy becomes sort of a byproduct, it kind of pins back to the seven habits of highly effective people synergy, where when everyone's really getting along and they're doing really great work. the byproduct of synergy, it becomes easier. The frequency part of that is what is that individual's person's energy doing? Are they conscious? (11:08) Are they emotionally intelligent? Are they grounded? Are they paying attention to the people around them? Are they sensitive enough? (11:14) to pick up on the nuances of the environment that they're in. And all of those things play a role in frequency. And it matters. Spencer Horn (11:23) Yeah, no, pun intended, right? I love that. And so you and I were talking earlier. And I do work with teams as well, with team coaching. (11:34) And so we call what you're describing frequency the system. And you talk about it as biological, the whole body as a system. And you use that metaphor to really help the teams that you work with identify how they're working together and the system or the frequency that they've created. So it sounds like, though, the work that you do is let's get everybody's frequency right. (11:59) then creates harmony when we come together. Is that kind of what you're saying? Kristin Mackey (12:04) That is definitely a component of it. As each individual masters themselves, their leadership or their mindset, and they also make the right decisions. You know, being in the right organization that plays to your strengths, in the role that plays to your strengths, it's aligned with your value system. Those elements that are in alignment bring out the best in a person. (12:26) I often use the example of trying to tell someone, you go to a zoo, for example, and there's the lion's den or there's where all the wildcats are. And you ask somebody to walk into that space and then say, okay, now be grounded and manage your particles and feel good. No, that person's frequency is going to be completely deregulated. They're going to be in the lion's den, they're going to feel overwhelmed, they're going to have their guard up. (12:51) And that also is something to think about when it comes from the leadership perspective of teams, a great leader creates the right environment that is a safe, in a place for the team to really bring out their best self. And I think that's really an important element. Asking someone to have a regulated nervous system if they are naturally in an environment that doesn't play to their nature. And here's the piece of it Spencer that's really interesting is that some folks will say oh it has to be this way or it has to be that way. (13:25) And I often say no, every team is different every industry is different value systems are different cultures are different. The key is to know who you are, align your heart and mind. resonate with your true north. And when you are in that space, you're going to connect with teams that resonate with your value system and the byproduct is going to be a great frequency. (13:45) So yes, aligning your energy is the first part of it. But then also making sure you're making great decisions around who you are surrounding yourself with and if you're in the right place at the right time. with good to great, like that wonderful book, Good to Great. You have to be in the right space to bring out the best. Spencer Horn (14:05) So I mean, I love what you're saying. I love the metaphor of the grounded leader going into the lion's den. Can we can we talk about that for a moment? Because In my experience, that happens a lot with individual work, right? (14:21) I mean, you get the leader grounded, but then they go back to the culture that exists. And let's say you pull out a lion or two from that den. The other lions are still there. And then you put one of those leaders back, and they kind of get sucked into the behavior of what's going on in the Lions. (14:40) How do you manage that if you're working with people one at a time? Because it seems like the culture of that Lions then is going to want to survive. It's going to want to survive that leader, because they're not compatible. So who's going to win? (14:55) The one leader that's grounded, or the pride of Lions? I mean, is this making sense? Kristin Mackey (15:01) Yes. Yeah. No, I love this conversation, Spencer, and it is absolutely making sense. It's a challenge that I forgive my hair right here. (15:10) I love your hair. Thank you. It's a challenge that I often try to coach folks with. You know, it's not an exact science it is is a little bit of an art, where you want to really understand your own energy and energy can overpower someone that may be for example sensitive, or they, they are not in the right organization that plays to their strengths. (15:37) if you're in an environment where you have a lot of, you know, a sensitive person in a cutthroat environment, that will cause that individual to potentially feel discombobulated or off balance. And so if you pull that person out and you're empowering them in this great workshop or this seminar and they feel great, they feel supported, and then they go back into their organization and then they wobble again because they feel that they're surrounded by all this energy that doesn't feel good. One of the biggest things that I teach individuals is Anchor to your nature. (16:09) Get clear about what your nature is and learn to master the power of boundaries, master the power of ritual and practices, so that when you feel at the onset that your energy is starting to wobble a little bit, or you're starting to feel yourself triggered a little bit, you don't allow those triggers to override your frontal lobes or your emotional intelligence. Because if you get triggered to a point where it's hitting certain things, and then you go all the way back to your reptilian brain, you're going to say and do things that aren't ideal, and they're not going to be good for the team. And every human being has dealt with that. (16:47) They get triggered, they're like, meh, and then everyone kind of steps back. So managing your particles, is also part of it. It's something I play with, but the idea behind it is get really anchored in your own energy. And if you sense that your energy is getting off balance, step back, draw a boundary, regulate your nervous system, regulate your energy, get clear about what is happening so that you can communicate in a way that is clear, concise, and competent. (17:19) Too often, An individual can get swallowed by the system itself. So that is where real good leadership comes in because they notice it and they begin to make changes within the organization to circumvent that. Spencer Horn (17:43) So in this managing of your particles idea, you're teaching people to interrupt their own patterns, right? So you're saying, you know, when you feel that emotional hijack or whatever that's coming on, you know, step back, create the boundary, step away for a moment, interrupt that pattern so that you can re-control, get control of those quirks and, you know, microscope, what are those called? Particles. Particles, yes. (18:16) Subatomic particles. Your electrons. So you get them all organized again when they're out of control. So this managing your particles paradigm, walk us through what that means, why you chose that language instead of something more traditional. Kristin Mackey (18:39) I chose the language managing your particles because I didn't want to say perfect. I think that just adds a sort of insecurity to the space where folks become self conscious or they're they start to. second guess who they are and what their position is. Particles are meant to be playful because there's energy. (19:00) An example is each person has a biosphere. They have an energy around them. And when we interface with other folks, we can feel their energy. Making it particles makes it light. (19:12) It makes it fun. It's language to allow vast differences to be playful and to be united. There are so many different mindsets and cultures and philosophies and value systems, but we're all human. We're all human and we're all made of energy and that energy moves a certain way and unifying language like manage your particles or your frequency matters, suddenly we're removing unconscious bias. (19:43) We're removing the, you're over there and I'm over here. We're removing the barriers and the things that make folks create filters or judgment about someone else. And when we remove those barriers, we get connection. we get real genuine connection. (20:00) And if you're a leader, you get attunement. And from that place, we're able to empower individuals to be influential in their systems, to change policies in their systems, to make proposals that that actually can make a difference if there is to your point earlier, a system that is so stiff in its previous culture, and you have a few, you know, individuals that want to come in there and change that a little bit. So the particles are a way to bring language that unifies the folks to feel empowered to do that. Spencer Horn (20:38) That's so helpful. It makes really a lot of sense is that you remove the defensiveness to talk about behavior just by creating curiosity. And again, that keeps people out of that reptilian brain, as you call it, and into more of that curiosity. And when they're curious, then they're open to suggestion about new ways of doing things. (21:01) And so I think that's a brilliant way to address human nature. You are saying that there's a lot of research that backs your work. What did the data tell you about conventional leadership models that we're missing about why teams struggle? Kristin Mackey (21:22) Some of the things that I was exposed to is that the ability for teams to be agile and dynamic at the same time interface with the various silos in their organization and also meet the company goals. And so you run into leaders that have a lot of pressure to achieve and meet the company goals. And in that team, they also are sort of walking this tightrope between, I need to reach the company goals. We have to achieve this. (21:52) But I also, as a leader, need to create and fortify and nourish the ecosystem of the team to make sure that it is performing. And so I think that disconnect is a common disconnect. It's a common disconnect with everything in the world that I have seen, where you have the team that really is doing well. They're connecting. (22:11) They're producing. But there's a disconnect between their team, another team in the organization, or the actual architecture of the entire organization and how it. wants to achieve its goals. And so I think if there's a way to create a more dynamic or fluid, organic interplay between the team, the silos, and then the overarching organization and what goals are we going to achieve, and we become a little bit more transparent and connected on how we're going to (22:43) achieve that, some of those barriers are lifted. Some of that competition that sometimes can come in between two different departments if they're competing against cultural norms, you know I've seen this in hospitals I've seen this in hospitality. where one study or one focus, they have to, for example, we'll take a restaurant, for example, that restaurant has to serve their customers. So they're in their little ecosystem and they want to make sure the food is brilliant and the customer loves it. (23:14) And we've got somebody coming in and trying it. And now all of a sudden there's a celebrity walking in. Those are dynamics and those are elements that come into that space. And so in that team that person is completely focused on how do I deliver that outcome. (23:31) The disconnect comes in, in who's handing off the forks, and what is going on over there there's a wedding going on over there and how are we interplaying with the resources that are available. And that is where the real humanity comes in. That is where the joyfulness comes in, the happiness. I understand you've got to make that goal over there. (23:51) You've got to achieve that. But I have this. Let's connect. Let's talk. (23:55) Let's find a creative solution to make sure both of those goals are met. Too often, if somebody is so focused in just their area and they're not looking outside of themselves that this is actually an ecosystem, Then that becomes an ultimate challenge or disconnect for how that overriding executive group wants to achieve their goals. So if we if an organization wants to achieve these goals but we've got all these different silos saying different languages and they're competing with each other we're not going to get anywhere. It's just not going to happen. (24:29) And so that has been a disconnect and what I have found Spencer is the more we create transparency with boundaries joyfulness and playfulness between the silos, with respect to the, to the goals of that specific. goal, organ or department, and then also in alignment with the overarching goals of that systemic organization. And if we can achieve that, then we have an entire organization that is operating like a very athletic human body, a healthy body, a body that's dynamic, a human body that knows that the ear and the toe don't compete. They are in the same system. Spencer Horn (25:18) That's for you to take a drink if you want, you know, you can. Yes, of course. Kristin Mackey (25:22) Thank you. Spencer Horn (25:26) See, you know, there was a lot in what you just talked about and. really rich with information. Some of it I'd love to unpack if I can remember it all. Kristin Mackey (25:39) Yes, I am a little bit... No, no, no, no. I can go on a tangent. Spencer Horn (25:44) No, and I'm listening and I'm like, oh gosh, that's a really good point. I need to remember that. You talk about the pressure to achieve that the manager has. It's... (25:57) extremely apparent that management and leaders at all levels and organizations right now who lead teams are struggling. Gallup poll just came out in, I think it was April 9th, that reported about manager engagement dropping from 2022 at 31% to last year at 22%. So that's, you know, 9% drop. That's a bigger percent of change, but 9 points on the engagement scale. (26:32) And that's pretty abysmal. 22% engagement for 2025. And there's so many reasons why I think that's happening. You talk about the task. (26:46) You work in serving in the restaurant, and you've got pressure, and then you've got the celebrity coming in. And most often, what that creates is what the father of cognitive psychology, Ulrich Neisser, calls inattentional blindness. I'm so focused on what I'm doing, I'm actually literally blind to the other departments, what they're working on. I can't focus on the wedding over there because I am just delivering here. (27:13) And I've got my goal that I've got to deal with and I'm actually unconscious about how I'm showing up to my people because I'm so focused on hitting my numbers. That's that, you know, inattentional blindness that we have because we're so focused on the numbers. Kristin Mackey (27:27) That's the consciousness issue that we're talking about because I become Spencer Horn (27:31) literally blind to everything around me when I am just so pressured. The more, the greater the pressure, and the pressure is enormous. Organizations seem to be flatter than ever before because we live in what's called a Bonnie world, right? Brittle, oh my gosh, what is, the A stands for, I don't know, it's like, I'm going blank what it says, but N is nonsensical, and then incomprehensible. (28:01) I mean, the geopolitics, I work with the number one airline in the world right now in the Middle East. and the geopolitical situation has just destroyed so much of their normal operations. It's enormous, huge pressures just to keep the airline running. And these are very, very real. (28:22) You add on top of that digital transformation, AI implementation, and organizations are trying to figure out how do we Initially, a couple of years ago, we thought, oh, AI is going to make us so that we can all communicate better and we can all be more organized. And it's actually making matters worse, in my experience. Individually, it's helping us be more productive. But in many cases, it's actually causing us to be more insular and less collaborative. (28:48) And so it's actually hurting team performance. And so organizations are trying to figure out how to apply this on top of everything else they have to do. And leaders are in charge of all this rubbish. And so the pressure is just so enormous on them, this pressure to achieve, as you talk about. (29:07) So conscious leadership is at the center of your work. So how does a leader that is just struggling to get through the day, and then I got to deal with the drama of my people, And then we're telling them that you've got to connect and collaborate and know them and know their family. And they're just like, I don't have time and energy space for that. I mean, I can't even deal with my own requirements. (29:34) Hopefully, I'm not putting too much on you. But how do you help them to stay conscious and not just well-trained, but actually present in these types of pressure situations? Kristin Mackey (29:46) Yes, absolutely. That's a great question, and I think it's very needed today. I am going to go back to sort of the weird language I use with particles and then frequency, and I'm going to say, you know, 3D versus 4D, 5D, five-dimensional, right? So in the 3D, we can feel very grounded, for example, if I'm going to have this cup of coffee. (30:06) But when we're looking at everything that folks are being exposed to, there is an infinite number of things that we are trying to put our attention on. And when we put our attention on so many different things, we're splintering our consciousness. We're splintering our consciousness, and then we're moving our energy into all of these infinite pockets. And when we splinter our consciousness into all of these infinite pockets, it becomes very difficult to ground ourselves and to find out, how am I feeling in that space? (30:43) So, one of the things that I would recommend leaders do is to see yourself in this world, as you're being exposed to infinite possibilities, you're being exposed to infinite choices, no different than we walk into a superstore, we don't put everything in our shopping cart. But what we can do is say, wow, look at this selection. What do I need from this selection for myself, for my team, for my life, and for my organization? And that level of clarity allows folks to step back and say, I don't have to become the diversity and the expansiveness and splinter myself. (31:26) I get to choose mindfully and curate what works for me, what works for my team, how that's going to align with my family, how that is going to align with my goals, and then also bringing that same kind of energy to the leadership groups that talk about where are we going as an organization with all the competitors and all the things that are happening in AI. I think if we sort of go backwards and ground ourselves as leaders and recognize we cannot be all things to all people, but what we can be is the clarified version of ourselves. And when we are that clarified version of ourselves and we're grounded and we manage our energy and we put well-being as a priority, then it becomes very easy. (32:14) I shouldn't say easy, but we are more effective in being able to curate from infinite possibilities, selections, tools, AI, demands, pressures. We become very skilled at saying, what is going to work for me? What is going to work for my team? How can we then use that knowledge or those tools to move forward? (32:37) And I think that's a... Spencer Horn (32:50) There, I did it to you. That sounds absolutely phenomenal. By the way, the A stands for anxious in Bonnie. Anxious, nonsensical, incomprehensible. (33:07) It sounds so great. Can you give us some ways that we can start doing that? What are those behaviors that sustain that coherence and alignment? Kristin Mackey (33:24) Of course. Here are a few practical things that a leader or a team member can implement right away. One of the practical things is recognizing energy exchanges or sort of an energy equation. An example would be when I had my team and we were going through team member engagement and you know, when you're a 24 hour operation, sometimes that means three o'clock in the morning. (33:47) So when I recognized as a leader that I was asking my team to perform great things at a certain hour or to stretch or to pull, I would recognize as a leader that I just pulled energy. How can I replenish that energy back? And so I would then give them a little bit a day off or some downtime. And it was sort of a deposit back. (34:10) So if we needed to stretch or sprint or run or do something extraordinary, I was always as a leader aware of that energy equation and whether or not that person was being replenished. It's no different than the emotional bank account when you have deposits and withdrawals or any kind of energy exchange. When it gets too low, it gets out of balance. So a great leader keeps that balance in place. (34:33) Another exercise that I think Spencer, it never failed. It was one of the most powerful exercises that I used and have continued to use. And it was 100% something that changed the energy of a team. It eliminates the filters. (34:50) It eliminates the unconscious bias. I would get a group together, and I would say, OK, we're going to do an exercise. We're going to have a little fun with this. You do have to have a little finesse as a facilitator to manage it, because you are going to have some folks that are shy, and you need to help them out of their shell a little bit. (35:09) You're going to have some folks that are going to be very popular or get a lot of feedback. So a good facilitator will manage the energy flow. But I asked everybody to get in a circle, and we're going to kind of play a game of duck, duck, goose. And every single person, I put my hand on top of their head, and I would say, this person is on deck. (35:30) And I want everyone in this team, we're going to go around the room and just share whatever comes to mind, no limits. Why are you glad this person is on your team? What value do they bring? What examples have they given that made your life easier or better? (35:48) Why do you love that this person is on your team and the contributions that they're making? And you'll get a little awkwardness in the beginning. Everybody's sort of shy and they're not really saying anything. But then all of a sudden, this sort of magic happens. (35:59) You know, the particles start flowing and the frequency starts to shift a little bit where, oh, Bob always shows up on time and he does this. And when you hear the feedback and you observe, you're a good leader and you're attuning to that person, That individual starts to smirk and smile. And I've seen this exercise light up every single person. And you go around the circle, and then the next person is on deck. (36:25) And everybody feeds that person with great energy on why we love that they're on the team. And then the next person is on deck. And it takes about maybe 45 to an hour. But that exercise, and I do it, you know, I used to do it with my team building, and I also would do it when I was a leader in an organization. (36:42) The feedback would always be, I didn't know that this person felt that way about me I didn't know that was a good quality or you appreciate that you know I'm an introvert but I always do great work. So their uniqueness was valued and their uniqueness was recognized but. You know, in a professional arena, we don't always have that opportunity to let our guard down and be vulnerable and say, you know, I'm so glad that you are who you are and you work the way you work because you really helped me out in that situation over there. (37:14) And I saw that and I felt that and I value that and I appreciate that. Every single time I've done that exercise, the energy shifts and you'll get folks to say, you know, wow, I really didn't know that my team members thought that about me. So that's a practical thing that I've done. I don't know if you need any more, but there's two. Spencer Horn (37:33) No, no, those are great things. And I think that this last one that you just described ties into one of the things that causes people to love their work. The number one indicator that someone loves their work is that they have an impact, that they make a difference. And how do they know that they make a difference? (37:53) Well, if somebody doesn't tell them, then they have to rely on their own. you know, their own awareness of what they've accomplished. But I find that most people really struggle to understand what they've accomplished, and they have so often imposter syndrome. And I've coached, and especially women, you know, I've coached a lot of executives, and one of the things that, you know, and if they're feeling this lack of impact, I say, I want you to journal at the end of every week everything you've accomplished. (38:24) And when they actually stop to take the time to think about what they've done, they're amazed at how much that they've accomplished. But we don't do that. But what makes it even more powerful is hearing that from others, that you have made a contribution, that you're important, that you matter. What's the number one thing that causes somebody to leave an organization? (38:46) no connection, they don't matter. Or they feel that they don't matter. And so that's an incredible exercise. And as far as managing your energy, there's a great Harvard Business Review article called Manage Your Energy, Not Your Time. (39:01) I don't know if you've read that. But it studies behind it how productivity actually increases if you spend less time at work. And more, you come with greater energy and greater enthusiasm. But sometimes I find myself just working and working and working. (39:24) I'm like, OK, this is counterproductive. But it's a real process that if you are coming to work with your best energy, you're going to get great outcomes. You're going to be more focused and achieve more. I think that's fabulous. (39:40) Well, you say that leaders that are great have the ability to make complex issues simple and enjoyable and relatable. What's the most counterintuitive thing about resonance that you've had to help leaders unlearn? Kristin Mackey (40:03) That they have to be in control of everything. that they have to be in control. There is a delicate balance between trying to achieve those goals, the goals that we have, and letting our team flow, getting into that flow, allowing them to tap into their talents, their natural gifts, their strengths, and we talk about that in Frequency Matters, and allowing them to make the decisions that they need to make and feel that wonderful empowerment from making good decisions, and then the safety if they were to make a decision that wasn't so good and they invite a little coaching. (40:40) But a lot of times, leaders are afraid to let go of their team. And I often give this skill to leaders, a new leader especially, a seasoned leader may not necessarily need this, but perhaps someone can benefit from what I call red rules and blue rules, where if you need to empower your team, but you don't want to let go, so much because you're a little bit afraid of where that might lead to, have a meeting where you talk about, what are those red rules? What are those absolute, no, you can't do that. (41:10) That's a boundary that will really get us off track with our initiatives. But a blue rule is something that you can make a judgment call. Did you assess it the right way? Did you get all the information that you needed to make that decision? (41:25) And that adds a little structure to those situations that are organic. You know, I've seen that with organic organizations like healthcare and hospitality especially, where you're asked to make real-time decisions and make fast, good, quality decisions that are aligned with either in hospitality, it's the guest experience, or hospitals, which is safety, care, and good outcomes. Those decisions aren't always easy to make and the brain will try to process what to do and so leaders in those environments struggle a little bit on how do I allow flow, but I need to be compliant, how do I allow the creative energy to have resonance and to get those great outcomes from synergy, but at the same time meet our mark and not have liability. (42:13) So that fine line, I have found that you can, you know, name it any way that you want to but the red rules and blue rules, allow a little structure for that that that fluid process to help folks make real time decisions. Spencer Horn (42:28) Oh, well, that's, man, just so much in there. I mean, we can talk all day. I have so many more questions for you. You know, you've spoken to rooms ranging from casinos, resorts, to defense contractors, to children's services. (42:47) So how do you translate this concept across all these different audiences that seem so different? How do they, I mean, do you change it? I mean, do you find that it just translates on its own? Kristin Mackey (43:02) In my experience, it has been two layers. One, what is the common denominator? The common denominator is that we are all human. We're all human and humanity or human beings like to connect. (43:13) They like to feel that they belong. They like a sense of autonomy. They like to play to their strengths, be anchored to their nature. feel loved and seen, contribute, connect. (43:24) Human beings are the same across the board. How we express ourselves or our value systems, there is differences. And so when we do have those differences, it's really important to recognize that, am I really listening? Am I actively listening to the person in front of me that might be very different than me? (43:41) Am I mindful of any unconscious bias or filters that I might have? And am I aware of them? If I have to journal them out and see what those filters are, then a great leader would do that. but we are all one humanity and connection, belonging, fluid connection, that's where we get the great outcomes. (43:59) We can achieve anything if we work together and we can achieve anything if we know exactly what our ultimate goals are. And so I really think that the other layer to that is not only are we all one, But when I would go into a different group, whether it was 2000 or whether it was two or any industry, I would deeply pay attention to the group that I was in front of. And that's where the conscious leadership comes in, deeply paying attention and looking at the micro expressions of my group, recognizing the interplay of energy, seeing what excites them, seeing what turns them down a little bit, where their body is moving. (44:40) Micro expressions will tell you a lot. And then as the leader, I would take notice of those things and I would tailor how I'm communicating so that I would be a facilitator of a safe place for everyone to feel that first part of the equation, which is a sense of belonging. a sense of autonomy contribution that they value they matter, and they're making a big difference, and that who they are at their unique in their unique way is significant and worthy. And I think if you can, if you can walk that line as a leader between those two to those two poles, where you're deeply connected to the humanity of who is in front of you. (45:22) And at the same time you're conscious enough to respect, honor the differences that are in front of you. Well, that is really that fine line of what I consider to be great leadership and it's a practice. We're not going to master it. But I love what you said, Spencer, earlier about having a journal. (45:39) And when you have a journal and you can anchor, it gives you an opportunity to see how your energy is moving, how someone else's energy is moving, and how can we work together to create a great outcome. Spencer Horn (46:00) So I don't know if you've noticed my energy has shifted a little bit because I got distracted. And what happened is I'm like, I wonder if she's noticing because I've got this problem going on where we're supposed to be on LinkedIn. I mean, it's on YouTube and on Facebook and it didn't go to LinkedIn. And so then I'm all stressing here and I'm going behind the scenes. (46:23) I'm like, how am I keeping this? It's really hard when you're running this podcast. And so this is just a microcosm of what we're talking about, right? Kristin Mackey (46:31) Right. Spencer Horn (46:32) And so I'm like, is she noticing my microexpressions and my energy? Because I've got this problem that I'm trying to deal with. And it's hard to be present when you're thinking about, oh my gosh, I'm so disappointed that that didn't happen. And so anyway. Kristin Mackey (46:52) That's okay. And you know it, that's, that's a wonderful example Spencer of how sometimes this does happen where you know you're you're looking at the camera or you're looking at the square and recognizing technology is an added barrier to communication, and it does play a role. Spencer Horn (47:09) It is, and like right now, I'm multitasking, right? And so I'm just, I'm being transparent. Yeah, it's okay. And it's really frustrating that that happens, because I'm like, man, I want this to be a great experience, but then I've got this problem that I'm trying to manage at the same time. (47:30) And I think that, but that's daily life in work. Yes. And it's just, I mean, it's so real and it's happening here. And I, you know, it's funny, I teach all these concepts. (47:41) I teach the awareness. I teach the consciousness. And I still get hijacked. I still get sucked into it. (47:51) But here's the good news, if you're listening. Sorry, I got a tickle. The hijacks happen less frequently and I get through them more quickly. Kristin Mackey (48:05) Yes. Spencer Horn (48:07) So, you know, I assume you're not perfect and you probably still have episodes. And so it's like, okay. And the problem is now that I'm more aware because I've learned from, you know, from Kristen and then I still get, you know, hijacked or I still become unconscious. That's even worse because then I'm triggered again. (48:27) I know better and I still got hijacked. And so then I got hijacked and I'm hijacked. No, you're human. Kristin Mackey (48:35) I said you're human. That is the human experience. Right. Spencer Horn (48:39) So then I got to grab all my particles, put them back together. Kristin Mackey (48:42) You got to get your particles in order. No, absolutely. You know, that's another part of it is that having compassion and empathy for the human experience, what you're trying to accomplish is amazing. You know, what you're doing is incredible. (48:59) I'm answering your questions. You're handling the entire thing. So we have totally different spaces to occupy right now. I have it easy. (49:09) You have it hard. Spencer Horn (49:10) Thank you. I just wanted to make this real to our listeners about what really goes on and what we're talking about. A couple more questions and we get to what I call the lightning round. You know, what's one thing that leaders broadcast to their teams without ever saying a word? (49:28) Because you just talked about this idea of you're noticing the different audiences. When I was listening to you, I'm like, wow, you've got to be totally focused and quiet and have no other things that you're concerned about in order to notice, don't you? Kristin Mackey (49:45) Yes. And you can, the brain is not very good at multitasking. It shouldn't actually multitask. So time blocks are really great. (49:55) I would find that, okay, this is going to be my, I want to love my team time block, or let's pull out the weeds of our dysfunction time block. Spencer Horn (50:05) This is my love my team, now I can focus on loving them. Kristin Mackey (50:10) Right, you have to have I love my team time block. Because then you're going to give them a splinter, and it'll feel like the particles are all over the place. But yeah, if we think about what are those things we want to accomplish with our team, and we block that time out and actually schedule that, then we can comfortably. Are we going to have those moments where we're splintered? (50:31) Yes, but we can reduce them if we schedule our time and time blocks. I do it all the time. This is, yes. Spencer Horn (50:39) Okay, that's great. Okay, so listen, before we go into the lightning round, I'd love for you to talk a little bit about your book, where people can find it, how people can reach you, if they want to learn more about getting their particles under control, their frequencies aligned and harmonious, how do they get a hold of Kristen? Kristin Mackey (51:05) Yes, you can reach me on two different websites one is Kristen Mackey calm, and the other one is frequency matters.org. You can you will you did the it's kind of a frequency matters workbook that allows you to kind of unpack the particle journey. is on Amazon and Frequency Matters, be a contributor, not an employee, which actually is sort of a joke, but it's playful, meaning contribute, can also be found on Amazon as well. So that's how you can get in touch with me. (51:34) And my email address is kristin at kristinmackey.com. Spencer Horn (51:38) Is that can you, will you, did a little plate on thoughts or things? Kristin Mackey (51:42) Yes, it is. And I illustrated it. I handmade the whole book. So it's got all kinds of humanity in it, just letting you know. (51:50) There are errors in there, but people like it. And there's particles. We actually get into the particles and there's illustrations on how particles interface, how they get on other people, people projecting particles. We have a lot of fun. Spencer Horn (52:06) how we're absorbing other people's particles. Kristin Mackey (52:09) Yes. They absorb someone's particles is, yes. Spencer Horn (52:14) It's so true. Our energy is literally catching. I think one of the great experiments about that is what's going on with the World Cup right now in the United States. Do you feel the energy that people around the... (52:31) around the world are feeling about this great country that we live in and the great freedoms that we have. And I think for too long we've taken it for granted and it's so fun to feel their energy and I think it's energizing us. I love watching foreigners post and it just makes me fall in love with my country all over again. That's energy. (52:50) And it's energy that they're infecting us with. Kristin Mackey (52:53) Right, absolutely. And it flows, it becomes contagious. You find that when you're with folks and you're resonating and these positive things are happening, you just want to feed more into that and then the energy expands. Spencer Horn (53:07) Yes, our energy absolutely is contagious. So one of the things that I always say is, I actually have a keynote where I talk about this concept and we have a responsibility to be aware of what our energy is because Psychologists say that we infect people up to three degrees. So if I have a negativity cold, and I give it to you, and then you go and talk to the people that you love, and then they go and talk to the people they love, that's over 1,000 people potentially that we can infect for good or for bad just by one interaction. (53:47) And so we have a responsibility, I think, to manage our energy, to manage our particles, because we actually influence constantly people around us. So all right, are you ready for the short questions? Kristin Mackey (54:02) Yeah, go for it. Spencer Horn (54:04) OK, these will be just really quick one word or one sentence answers. Manage your particles or manage your mindset? Kristin Mackey (54:14) Manage your particles. Spencer Horn (54:16) One word that describes a high-resonance team. Kristin Mackey (54:20) Synergy. Spencer Horn (54:22) Artist first or leader first? Kristin Mackey (54:25) Artist first. Spencer Horn (54:28) Keynote stage or boardroom table? Kristin Mackey (54:31) Boardroom table. Spencer Horn (54:33) The leadership book that changed how you think? Kristin Mackey (54:37) Seven Habits for Highly Effective People. Spencer Horn (54:40) Fill in the blank. Conscious leaders always... Kristin Mackey (54:43) Think about other people. Spencer Horn (54:46) What do most people get wrong about communication? Kristin Mackey (54:50) They have to be perfect. Spencer Horn (54:53) High frequency or high performance, which comes first? Kristin Mackey (54:57) High frequency. Spencer Horn (54:58) First things first, right? Seven habits. Kristin Mackey (55:01) That's right. Spencer Horn (55:03) Finish this sentence. Great teamwork happens when? Kristin Mackey (55:09) Everyone feels they belong and are contributing. Spencer Horn (55:13) There you go. That's very, very important for people to feel. And we have the power to help that happen, enable that. And thank you so much, Kristen, for joining me today on Teamwork a Better Way. (55:28) So glad to have you. Kristin Mackey (55:29) Oh, my pleasure. Thank you so much, Spencer, for having me on. It was an honor and it was a lot of fun as well. Thank you. Spencer Horn (55:36) Thank you. Hang on after the close here. And listeners, please like and subscribe. Share this with others. (55:43) Hopefully the frequency and vibration that we're sharing today will make a difference in their lives. Have a wonderful rest of your time today, tonight, this morning, wherever you are. We are so glad you joined us. Kristin Mackey (56:07) you