WEBVTT NOTE This file was generated by Descript 00:00:13.283 --> 00:00:17.513 Mike Caldwell: Welcome to another episode of the Transformative Principal Podcast. 00:00:17.513 --> 00:00:23.123 I'm Mike Caldwell, your host today, and joining me is the legendary Nick Petski. 00:00:23.513 --> 00:00:24.533 Nick, welcome to the show. 00:00:26.063 --> 00:00:26.843 Nick Pretacky: Thanks for having me. 00:00:27.083 --> 00:00:27.803 I'm excited. 00:00:27.923 --> 00:00:28.643 Mike Caldwell: I'm excited too. 00:00:28.643 --> 00:00:30.503 Yeah, I'm looking forward to the conversation. 00:00:31.613 --> 00:00:33.083 I'm trying to think, Nick, when did we meet? 00:00:33.683 --> 00:00:33.953 How long? 00:00:33.953 --> 00:00:35.093 How long have we known each other? 00:00:35.213 --> 00:00:36.293 It hasn't been that long. 00:00:37.883 --> 00:00:39.953 Nick Pretacky: Uh, I think it was. 00:00:41.423 --> 00:00:46.223 At some point last spring, so we probably, it's probably only been nine months. 00:00:46.463 --> 00:00:47.423 Mike Caldwell: Yeah, yeah, 00:00:47.648 --> 00:00:47.938 Nick Pretacky: yeah, 00:00:47.943 --> 00:00:48.323 Mike Caldwell: yeah. 00:00:48.353 --> 00:00:49.793 But I feel like I've known you longer. 00:00:49.793 --> 00:00:52.283 You're, you're one of those people, people don't know you. 00:00:52.373 --> 00:00:53.273 You're one of those people that. 00:00:54.938 --> 00:01:00.248 You just instantly kind, or at least I did, kind of instantly connect with, kind of jive with thi see things. 00:01:00.248 --> 00:01:06.488 I think in a similar way, I love the title of your or your LLC, the Humanistic Leadership. 00:01:06.488 --> 00:01:09.548 We'll get into that, but I think it says a lot about you. 00:01:09.548 --> 00:01:17.138 But before we go there, we also have this connection of, I think, in wilderness and outdoors and stuff. 00:01:17.138 --> 00:01:21.008 You, your, your history as a back country, was it? 00:01:21.163 --> 00:01:23.503 Guide or something like that. 00:01:23.563 --> 00:01:24.463 I'm kind of jealous. 00:01:24.463 --> 00:01:32.893 Like when I was a, when I was a young whipper snapper, I thought my future would be a mountain man, like living in the mountains. 00:01:32.983 --> 00:01:37.603 Um, I know, I know it doesn't pay well, but it sounds fun. 00:01:38.353 --> 00:01:45.973 So tell me about your experience as a back country guide and then we'll talk about kind of where that led you and what you're doing today. 00:01:45.973 --> 00:01:48.343 But, uh, yeah, I'm, I'm really interested in hearing about that. 00:01:50.483 --> 00:01:54.353 Nick Pretacky: Probably similar to you, like growing up I loved being in the outdoors. 00:01:54.383 --> 00:02:03.623 Uh, I loved experiencing it and um, I had an opportunity when I was in college to, um, to go overseas and study. 00:02:04.163 --> 00:02:13.463 So in, um, in Lismore, uh, which is New South Wales, Australia, I was able to attend Southern Cross University and. 00:02:14.093 --> 00:02:24.353 When I was at the university, there was a, an array of classes I could take and I decided to take a bunch of their adventure education classes and, um, and their outdoor leadership classes. 00:02:24.353 --> 00:02:29.718 And there were several different classes, but for the most part, I had an opportunity to learn how to lead. 00:02:30.728 --> 00:02:34.238 Um, in the, in the back country or back, you know, down there. 00:02:34.238 --> 00:02:35.528 We would, we'd call it in the bush. 00:02:35.708 --> 00:02:41.828 And I was able to get, uh, to have a lot of really great opportunities to be out and learning some of those skills. 00:02:42.128 --> 00:02:43.958 Um, get to get into the rainforests. 00:02:43.958 --> 00:02:50.858 We did some crazy, uh, tests and things with, with navi, with, with orienteering and setting up rock climbing. 00:02:50.858 --> 00:02:52.988 And we, we just did a lot of different, um. 00:02:54.488 --> 00:03:01.598 Ways to learn in the outdoors and really ways to lead others in unfamiliar territory. 00:03:03.248 --> 00:03:04.088 Leveraging that. 00:03:04.088 --> 00:03:13.028 When I, when I moved back to the United States and finished my degree, I decided, whoa, before I get into this whole school thing, I really wanna do some of this guiding thing. 00:03:13.028 --> 00:03:19.208 And because I had a little bit of that experience, I was able to get my feet wet into, um, into the first organization. 00:03:19.268 --> 00:03:22.688 And then pretty soon I was guiding longer trips out, out in New York. 00:03:22.743 --> 00:03:24.398 And then I got a job for the, um. 00:03:25.018 --> 00:03:26.578 For a foundation out of Maine. 00:03:26.578 --> 00:03:29.668 So I was able to guide 23 day sea kayak trips outta Maine. 00:03:29.818 --> 00:03:35.248 And once you start building your resume as a guide, it's you just start to say, I've always wanted to live in Alaska. 00:03:35.428 --> 00:03:37.798 So you pick Alaska and you call up a couple places. 00:03:37.798 --> 00:03:39.358 You say, Hey, here's my experience. 00:03:39.418 --> 00:03:41.098 And they say, oh, that's great. 00:03:41.098 --> 00:03:46.283 And then you move to Alaska and you start guiding in, uh, the Kenai Fjords National Park, um, some Sea Kai trips. 00:03:46.608 --> 00:03:50.778 There, I was able to leverage that to move to Oregon in, in California. 00:03:50.868 --> 00:03:55.458 And so just do a bunch of different guiding and, um, I don't know if I was a mountain man. 00:03:55.908 --> 00:03:57.453 Um, but I did live outta my, either, either was I, 00:03:57.618 --> 00:03:58.398 Mike Caldwell: either was I, so 00:03:58.398 --> 00:03:59.568 Nick Pretacky: it's, I did live out of my car. 00:03:59.718 --> 00:04:05.688 I can assure you it's not a great way to make money, but, uh, it was a, it was a really fun time, uh, in my life. 00:04:05.708 --> 00:04:23.948 In my t um, you know, twenties, uh, early thirties, and just had that opportunity to see the world, um, through the wilderness, but also learn a lot about myself through the lens of others as they were experiencing, um, you know, challenges and, uh, successes and failures in the outdoors. 00:04:25.433 --> 00:04:30.923 Mike Caldwell: There's gotta be a story or two that, that you just like carry with you from that experience. 00:04:30.923 --> 00:04:40.253 Like some sort of like crazy thing that happened, I don't know, stuck overnight without food or water. 00:04:40.288 --> 00:04:41.488 Trapped by a bear. 00:04:41.488 --> 00:04:45.838 There's gotta be something like, is gimme, gimme, gimme some, some drama. 00:04:45.838 --> 00:04:47.128 I'm dying for some drama. 00:04:47.128 --> 00:04:48.238 It's late afternoon. 00:04:48.508 --> 00:04:49.648 Oh, you got anything? 00:04:50.728 --> 00:04:51.058 Nick Pretacky: Yeah. 00:04:51.058 --> 00:05:01.598 So I, I mean, I have a lot, uh, because as all great leaders, right, we learn through our mistakes and man, do we make some, um, and we just don't let that we, we do not want that opportunity to ever leave without some growth. 00:05:01.838 --> 00:05:03.608 So, yeah, there's some stories. 00:05:03.638 --> 00:05:05.498 Um, let's, let's take one from Alaska. 00:05:05.888 --> 00:05:12.698 Um, I was guiding, guiding in the Kenai Fjords National Park and for, um, to, for a little bit of, uh, context. 00:05:12.878 --> 00:05:16.778 It's a national park that you can only get to by plane or by boat. 00:05:17.108 --> 00:05:19.148 Uh, there's a large ice field. 00:05:19.588 --> 00:05:25.858 Um, that w that is in between kind of where you would say population and this and this park. 00:05:26.188 --> 00:05:29.908 So we would load our kayaks up on a boat and they would drive us into the National park. 00:05:30.118 --> 00:05:31.798 Uh, it was about a four and a half hour boat trip. 00:05:31.798 --> 00:05:34.258 They would drop me off with my clients and they would leave and come back. 00:05:34.628 --> 00:05:41.678 You know, seven days or however long we were out, well, I had this, uh, this, uh, group from Germany, um, that I was taking out. 00:05:42.098 --> 00:05:51.368 And then, and, and the night before we sort of meet and we, uh, get our gear together and there was this woman and her daughter kind of in our. 00:05:52.673 --> 00:05:57.713 Shop, if you will, on the docks, uh, that we ran into and, and she started telling the story. 00:05:57.713 --> 00:06:00.443 They were from Florida and Oh, they've always wanted to do this. 00:06:00.443 --> 00:06:02.393 And I was like, Hey, we have two spots on this trip. 00:06:02.663 --> 00:06:04.433 Very naive guide at this point. 00:06:04.433 --> 00:06:04.613 Right? 00:06:04.613 --> 00:06:06.563 So I'm just thinking, yeah, that's great. 00:06:06.563 --> 00:06:07.703 I'd love to take a couple more. 00:06:07.703 --> 00:06:13.883 People didn't really have this thought on, like, at what level do they, do they really know what we're about to do? 00:06:14.033 --> 00:06:17.033 She had mentioned she had paddled a canoe before or something. 00:06:17.033 --> 00:06:18.953 I was like, oh, I'll teach you everything when we get out there. 00:06:19.343 --> 00:06:19.463 Well. 00:06:19.813 --> 00:06:22.123 Needless to say, they, they were not very good paddlers. 00:06:22.153 --> 00:06:32.863 Um, and, uh, that, but my first clue was I shouldn't have just invited them onto this trip with 24 hours to go, uh, as they like go to the next door to start buying some Heli Hansen gear and just like outfit themselves. 00:06:32.863 --> 00:06:33.343 Right. 00:06:33.373 --> 00:06:34.843 So you're like that, that's number one. 00:06:34.963 --> 00:06:36.193 I didn't recognize that tip. 00:06:36.223 --> 00:06:37.723 The second tip is now we're out. 00:06:37.933 --> 00:06:39.133 We do a lot of practicing. 00:06:39.133 --> 00:06:43.543 There's some early bonding, some, some, some early, just figuring each other out, figuring out on the boats. 00:06:43.543 --> 00:06:48.103 We've been already been dropped out in the national park though, but we don't really do any big trips. 00:06:48.283 --> 00:06:51.793 Um, and I kid you not, within the first couple hours they broke our first sea kayak. 00:06:52.063 --> 00:06:58.243 Um, and sea kayaks have, um, they have like a rudder and there's a system for the back person and a pedal system to help you steer. 00:06:58.423 --> 00:06:59.593 'cause the water gets really big. 00:06:59.593 --> 00:07:00.283 We're all in. 00:07:00.288 --> 00:07:00.388 Um. 00:07:01.413 --> 00:07:03.333 You know, we are, we are in dry suits. 00:07:03.393 --> 00:07:08.523 Uh, we are paddling in glacial water, so yeah, you don't last real long in glacial water. 00:07:08.823 --> 00:07:10.383 Uh, so it's really important. 00:07:10.383 --> 00:07:14.973 We're all fully skirted and so those, those rudders are pretty important, but they broke that wire really quickly. 00:07:15.363 --> 00:07:22.443 Um, I was lucky enough that there was a tourism boat, um, that I was able to hail and they, um, had some extra wire. 00:07:22.443 --> 00:07:23.523 I fixed it open again. 00:07:23.883 --> 00:07:25.683 At this point I'm still thinking like, this is good. 00:07:25.743 --> 00:07:27.633 Day one of day six, like, we're good. 00:07:27.633 --> 00:07:27.753 Well. 00:07:29.093 --> 00:07:33.233 Needless to say, the next day we were heading out, um, to Petterson Glacier. 00:07:33.233 --> 00:07:41.813 It's, it's a long paddle, um, but it's this beautiful lagoon that you paddle into, uh, and, uh, you get to experience this glacier. 00:07:41.903 --> 00:07:43.853 The only way you can access it is by sea kayak. 00:07:43.853 --> 00:07:47.993 You wouldn't be able to take a large boat in there, but in order to get in, there's a really small little inlet. 00:07:48.353 --> 00:07:57.623 So we had a paddle into this inlet, and as a guide, your timing tied so at, you know, at high or low, and it's slack, like you can kind of get in and out. 00:07:57.623 --> 00:07:58.223 But if it's. 00:07:58.688 --> 00:07:58.958 Right. 00:07:58.958 --> 00:08:01.598 If it's mid Tide like it is gonna be ripping through there. 00:08:01.838 --> 00:08:03.428 Well, we took too long to get there. 00:08:03.608 --> 00:08:05.678 We definitely took too long once we got there. 00:08:05.828 --> 00:08:08.768 'cause there were a lot of other issues that we don't have time to talk about today. 00:08:09.368 --> 00:08:14.958 But now we need to get out and there's basically standing waves going in that we have to be able to get out. 00:08:15.473 --> 00:08:19.223 Um, out of this small little inlet, but the tide's moving so quickly. 00:08:19.433 --> 00:08:23.273 My German group was easy to get out, um, but this pair was not. 00:08:23.363 --> 00:08:26.543 Um, and at one point I'm out of my kayak. 00:08:26.543 --> 00:08:27.743 They're tied to my PFD. 00:08:27.743 --> 00:08:28.793 I'm pulling them out. 00:08:29.003 --> 00:08:38.693 I'm thinking at this point, literally like this is probably when the story is written of the guide who didn't know what he was doing, who, who died trying to pull someone out of this, uh, out of this lagoon. 00:08:38.693 --> 00:08:43.163 And, um, we, luckily we got through, we didn't get back until like. 00:08:43.813 --> 00:08:46.993 Four the next morning, uh, into our, into our camp again. 00:08:47.293 --> 00:08:51.343 And, um, you know, trying to make breakfast, trying to save face with all the different things. 00:08:51.433 --> 00:08:54.433 That's my fault that I put people in that condition in those spots. 00:08:54.763 --> 00:08:57.583 Um, and, uh, you know, I had to tug them all the way back. 00:08:57.583 --> 00:09:01.333 I mean, once we got 'em in their boats, I mean, I really just had to, uh, to pull them back. 00:09:01.333 --> 00:09:04.933 But it was really naive thinking that I could just. 00:09:05.308 --> 00:09:13.318 With the right energy, the right attitude, and a little bit of teaching, I would get them to be able to, to, to operate at a level that they weren't ready for. 00:09:13.528 --> 00:09:13.918 Mike Caldwell: Yeah. 00:09:14.248 --> 00:09:17.068 Oh, well, there's so many directions we can go from that. 00:09:17.068 --> 00:09:19.258 That's a, that's a great opening story. 00:09:19.258 --> 00:09:19.948 I love it. 00:09:20.008 --> 00:09:24.028 Um, I, I mean, being a young, I've never been a guide like that. 00:09:24.298 --> 00:09:27.988 Just putting myself in your shoes, it's like, how? 00:09:28.598 --> 00:09:30.968 Uh, maybe overwhelming. 00:09:30.968 --> 00:09:32.918 That felt like, what did I do? 00:09:32.918 --> 00:09:39.998 And here you are in day one of, what'd you say, six of this journey and you have all these other people that you're responsible for. 00:09:40.748 --> 00:09:46.628 Uh, the heaviness of that I'm sure was, um, border aligned, overwhelming, if not overwhelming. 00:09:46.968 --> 00:09:47.478 I'm sure. 00:09:48.168 --> 00:09:48.558 Yeah. 00:09:48.948 --> 00:09:49.248 Nick Pretacky: Yeah. 00:09:49.248 --> 00:09:52.248 And it's a, it's an opportunity to reflect my whole life. 00:09:52.308 --> 00:09:57.228 'cause we, I would love to tell you, that was the last time I was in a situation like that, right? 00:09:57.228 --> 00:10:01.038 Until I took over, you know, um, an opportunity with one of my first schools. 00:10:01.098 --> 00:10:02.328 Same kind of stuff, right? 00:10:02.328 --> 00:10:04.038 Like, oh, we got this, we'll figure it out. 00:10:04.038 --> 00:10:04.218 Right? 00:10:04.278 --> 00:10:08.388 And then you find yourself, um, you know, no matter how much, um. 00:10:10.973 --> 00:10:18.113 Excitement and energy and belief you have, there are still some very critical steps you need to make in order to be successful. 00:10:18.143 --> 00:10:18.533 Mike Caldwell: Yeah. 00:10:19.163 --> 00:10:25.733 Well I think this is maybe unintentionally or intentionally kind of teeing up kind of the next chapter of your life. 00:10:25.733 --> 00:10:38.813 So you went from wilderness guy to how many years you did that, but then eventually you made your, stumbled your way into school system and leadership and uh, how did, how did you get, how'd you get there? 00:10:40.478 --> 00:10:43.928 Nick Pretacky: Always comes back to your mom, my not yours, mine, right? 00:10:44.018 --> 00:10:45.488 Like, Hey, when are you coming home, Nick? 00:10:45.578 --> 00:10:45.788 Right? 00:10:45.788 --> 00:10:46.748 When are you gonna grow up? 00:10:46.898 --> 00:10:49.418 Uhhuh in the back of your mind, like, yeah, when am I gonna move outta my car? 00:10:49.418 --> 00:10:49.658 Right. 00:10:49.658 --> 00:10:50.168 Kind of thing. 00:10:50.168 --> 00:10:50.558 So. 00:10:51.173 --> 00:11:01.253 Eventually, yeah, it was, I wanted to move back, use my, um, undergrad 'cause I was able to graduate, um, in between kind of guiding and, uh, and, and I wanted to go back into the classroom. 00:11:01.253 --> 00:11:06.263 And so I had an opportunity to, uh, to work back in Wisconsin as a, as a teacher. 00:11:06.353 --> 00:11:10.733 I worked with, um, students who were, uh, qualified as at risk, uh, trouble. 00:11:10.763 --> 00:11:19.913 So I was kind of a coordinator for a district, started working, um, in that, got into education for a little while, but the, the lesson that I learned early on was. 00:11:20.498 --> 00:11:33.458 Some of the practices, the principles, definitely the ingredients to how you lead in the outdoors is not how people lead in the front country, even though that's how we led in the back country. 00:11:33.788 --> 00:11:40.568 And for example, you know, one quote that you hear me talk about all the time is we need to summit the mountain with our entire team. 00:11:41.118 --> 00:11:45.978 Not 50% of our team, not 75, not whatever fidelity number we want to come up with. 00:11:46.188 --> 00:11:49.488 We in the back country have to summit with our entire team. 00:11:49.488 --> 00:11:51.858 No guide would summit with half their team gone. 00:11:52.278 --> 00:11:54.678 Uh, and so how do we, uh, in. 00:11:55.373 --> 00:12:04.643 Our schools and how do we in leadership positions in our classroom, in our hallways, how do we set up environments and conditions where everybody, everybody. 00:12:04.643 --> 00:12:06.533 And that, and that is an, an expectation. 00:12:06.683 --> 00:12:07.493 It's not a hope. 00:12:07.793 --> 00:12:11.303 It is a, it is a, we will, we will set up every system. 00:12:11.933 --> 00:12:17.033 The 100%, not just belief, but expectation that, that everyone will do it. 00:12:17.333 --> 00:12:29.363 Uh, and that really was, uh, a big deal for me as I started to work, uh, in schools and, and try to operate that way when that was not always the, the norm for how we were operating in the front country. 00:12:31.013 --> 00:12:36.683 Mike Caldwell: You talk about creating the conditions and the environment, so your entire team sets, summits, the mountain. 00:12:36.683 --> 00:12:37.373 I love that. 00:12:38.093 --> 00:12:39.443 But let's drill down into that. 00:12:39.443 --> 00:12:39.923 What are the. 00:12:40.508 --> 00:12:48.308 Let's say three maybe keys that leaders need to get right if they truly want everyone to make it to the top. 00:12:50.348 --> 00:12:50.528 Nick Pretacky: Yeah. 00:12:50.528 --> 00:12:57.253 So this I'm really excited to talk to you about, 'cause I think there are like three kind of, I. 00:12:58.793 --> 00:13:03.593 Pieces that in every guiding situation, if I didn't have one of them, it would not work. 00:13:04.013 --> 00:13:11.453 Uh, and I believe now as I partner and I get to work with lots of people in the front country, business sector, education sector, I still think it's true. 00:13:11.903 --> 00:13:13.973 So the first one is bond, right? 00:13:13.973 --> 00:13:17.123 We need to make sure we spend the right amount of time. 00:13:17.713 --> 00:13:20.983 Creating an environment where people feel like they belong. 00:13:20.983 --> 00:13:22.573 People feel like they're significant. 00:13:22.573 --> 00:13:25.843 People feel like they're valued and they have something to give. 00:13:26.053 --> 00:13:28.873 So the word we would use is, I cannot do this without you. 00:13:29.113 --> 00:13:29.353 Right. 00:13:29.353 --> 00:13:30.523 Or we would talk in that sense. 00:13:30.523 --> 00:13:34.333 So there's this level of bond, and it's not just between leader and. 00:13:35.888 --> 00:13:40.058 Follower, if that's, if that's the, the words that we would want to use, it's really through the whole team. 00:13:40.268 --> 00:13:44.948 So setting up conditions where everyone truly starts to believe that in the, in, in the back country. 00:13:44.948 --> 00:13:55.338 We spend a lot of time before we head out into the wilderness, making sure we have that, making sure we understand what everybody's, um, interests are, but really what every, where everybody's skills are. 00:13:55.648 --> 00:13:59.128 Mike Caldwell: Unless it's a couple random people from Florida, then, you know, just 00:13:59.128 --> 00:13:59.578 Nick Pretacky: throw that in. 00:13:59.578 --> 00:13:59.698 Mike Caldwell: Right. 00:13:59.908 --> 00:14:01.228 Nick Pretacky: Then I just breezed by. 00:14:01.228 --> 00:14:02.098 Exactly. 00:14:02.128 --> 00:14:05.788 No, like to, to, we can now go back now and tell my first mistake. 00:14:05.788 --> 00:14:06.058 Right? 00:14:06.178 --> 00:14:07.528 I spent no time with the bond. 00:14:07.558 --> 00:14:07.708 Right. 00:14:07.713 --> 00:14:14.938 Like, there was, I just assumed, I just jumped to this idea of like, we'll figure out as we go, well think about how often we do that, Mike. 00:14:14.998 --> 00:14:15.328 Mike Caldwell: Right? 00:14:16.018 --> 00:14:16.318 Yeah. 00:14:16.318 --> 00:14:16.338 Right, right. 00:14:16.498 --> 00:14:20.668 Nick Pretacky: And we're just wondering like, oh, it's not that big of a deal or, or a great phrase that I love to hear in schools. 00:14:20.668 --> 00:14:22.318 It's like, well, adults should just know. 00:14:22.973 --> 00:14:23.243 Mike Caldwell: No, 00:14:23.843 --> 00:14:24.323 Nick Pretacky: we don't. 00:14:24.413 --> 00:14:25.313 No, we don't Just know. 00:14:25.703 --> 00:14:26.723 Uh, and that, that, right. 00:14:26.723 --> 00:14:31.943 We need to spend some actual time on what the condition should look like for us all to be successful. 00:14:32.003 --> 00:14:32.063 Yeah. 00:14:32.063 --> 00:14:34.883 What do we value and what are we gonna hold each other accountable? 00:14:34.883 --> 00:14:39.863 Let's actually talk about the behaviors we're going to see in this meeting, uh, in order for us to operate that way. 00:14:39.863 --> 00:14:40.343 So, love it. 00:14:40.343 --> 00:14:40.433 Yeah. 00:14:40.463 --> 00:14:41.573 Bond is everything. 00:14:41.843 --> 00:14:43.673 Um, so the second one is mastery. 00:14:43.673 --> 00:14:46.883 So that one makes, is probably the most sense to, to everyone. 00:14:46.883 --> 00:14:48.893 You need to have the skill, right? 00:14:48.893 --> 00:14:50.873 You need to have the, um. 00:14:51.533 --> 00:14:53.273 The ability to paddle, right? 00:14:53.273 --> 00:14:55.973 The ability to keep your boat straight, the ability to keep your boat upright. 00:14:56.093 --> 00:15:03.323 Or if we're hiking the ability to like, uh, bear bag when we get into camp, the ability to, to set up a stove, the ability to create our, set up, our tents. 00:15:03.623 --> 00:15:05.633 Uh, how, how we hike without fatigue. 00:15:05.633 --> 00:15:11.843 I mean, there are definite mastery things in every setting that we have to provide people and. 00:15:12.028 --> 00:15:16.318 Um, and we need interventions and education to help people get those, that mastery. 00:15:16.528 --> 00:15:26.128 We need to provide ongoing feedback for our, our teachers and our support staff to support them in growing, uh, in a, in a job embedded professional develop development environment. 00:15:26.188 --> 00:15:28.078 We need to be very specific. 00:15:28.078 --> 00:15:30.238 How we do that is constant. 00:15:30.423 --> 00:15:32.433 Feedback, candor, right. 00:15:32.433 --> 00:15:46.593 And a, and a lot of kindness, um, and a lot of care as we're working with people on being specific about how we can sharpen their sword, how we can really support them with the mastery piece looks very different in all the contexts, but I know that you cannot summit them out. 00:15:46.593 --> 00:15:50.013 And if people don't have skill, if they do not have the mastery, they need the bond first. 00:15:50.133 --> 00:15:55.353 So they feel comfortable, the psychological safety to do the thing, and then they can build the skill, which is the mastery. 00:15:55.353 --> 00:15:56.343 That's the second piece, 00:15:58.953 --> 00:15:59.703 third piece. 00:16:00.713 --> 00:16:01.253 Belief 00:16:03.893 --> 00:16:12.353 individuals need to believe that they can actually do the thing, and this one is the number one thing that's forgotten. 00:16:12.623 --> 00:16:21.143 Whether I'm working with a basketball coach or a superintendent of a school district, do you believe that your team can do this? 00:16:22.553 --> 00:16:23.483 Well, what if I don't? 00:16:24.218 --> 00:16:26.378 Well, what are we gonna do so that you can believe? 00:16:26.378 --> 00:16:28.268 Because whatever you believe they already know. 00:16:28.478 --> 00:16:30.338 And that's the p Malian effect, right? 00:16:30.518 --> 00:16:33.998 It is like people will operate based on the belief system that we have. 00:16:33.998 --> 00:16:35.198 John Hattie knocked this out. 00:16:35.198 --> 00:16:37.148 Lots of great researchers that have knocked this out. 00:16:37.328 --> 00:16:38.138 Belief is everything. 00:16:38.138 --> 00:16:39.518 Have you ever taught someone how to ride a bike, Mike? 00:16:40.328 --> 00:16:41.198 Mike Caldwell: Yes, of course 00:16:41.573 --> 00:16:42.278 Nick Pretacky: you, you have. 00:16:42.308 --> 00:16:43.028 Okay, great. 00:16:43.148 --> 00:16:44.018 The bond is there. 00:16:44.138 --> 00:16:47.648 My guess is it was someone that was in your family, someone that you love, someone that you care about. 00:16:47.648 --> 00:16:48.098 Is that true? 00:16:48.248 --> 00:16:48.668 Mike Caldwell: Absolutely. 00:16:48.668 --> 00:16:48.818 Nick Pretacky: Okay. 00:16:48.908 --> 00:16:49.238 Bond. 00:16:49.298 --> 00:16:52.958 You had that one in, in lockdown mastery is the thing you're trying to tell them, right? 00:16:52.958 --> 00:16:54.818 You're constantly, hey, pedal a little faster. 00:16:54.818 --> 00:17:02.528 You know, if the speed is at a certain amount, we don't tip so much, but the last thing that always happens, they start to ride and what do they do? 00:17:02.648 --> 00:17:05.558 They turn around to look at the person and they're like, am I doing it? 00:17:05.648 --> 00:17:06.758 Boom, crash, right? 00:17:06.973 --> 00:17:13.693 That's the last step to get someone up the mountain is an actual belief from the people around you that I can do this and I will do this. 00:17:13.753 --> 00:17:16.693 And then they start to believe now we can summit the mountain. 00:17:16.933 --> 00:17:20.083 And unfortunately that one does get, get lost. 00:17:20.143 --> 00:17:21.973 We think mastery probably enough. 00:17:21.973 --> 00:17:23.263 We often forget the bond. 00:17:23.503 --> 00:17:23.833 Right? 00:17:23.953 --> 00:17:24.403 We did. 00:17:24.583 --> 00:17:31.033 I did not believe that group was going to make it to Paterson Lacoon once we, uh, started to paddle. 00:17:31.063 --> 00:17:33.013 So that was also missing in my story. 00:17:33.313 --> 00:17:36.253 Um, and I think those three. 00:17:37.163 --> 00:17:49.043 When we break it down, oh our, I just don't know if this team is getting it, or we just can't quite get our numbers to that level, or we just, it's all human and it comes down to those three elements. 00:17:49.283 --> 00:17:56.513 Obviously there's much more complexity to each of those than we're ready to cover today, but it breaks down to bond mastery and belief. 00:17:58.403 --> 00:17:58.823 Mike Caldwell: I love it. 00:17:58.883 --> 00:18:00.443 I love the simplicity of it. 00:18:00.473 --> 00:18:04.943 And also there's so much buried underneath one of tho e each one of those. 00:18:04.943 --> 00:18:15.023 It's, but, but I, I love, especially in a short, you know, relatively short podcast like this, like that, somebody listening can say, okay, it's just some, for some it's just a really good reminder. 00:18:15.023 --> 00:18:24.863 For some, it's like a new formula that maybe they needed that simplicity, but the bond mastering belief, um, a hundred percent agree tho. 00:18:24.893 --> 00:18:26.453 Those are all really important. 00:18:28.636 --> 00:18:41.266 gonna ask you, like in your experience, I know you work with a lot of leaders, not just in education and, and help do a lot of coaching and support, um, for leaders, where do you see the most, most often? 00:18:41.266 --> 00:18:47.626 Where do you see the, the, the miss or the gap of those three that people really need the support on? 00:18:48.676 --> 00:18:49.426 Or is there one? 00:18:52.816 --> 00:18:54.076 Nick Pretacky: It's a great question. 00:18:58.996 --> 00:19:04.126 I mean the, this is gonna be much more simplistic than probably you want. 00:19:05.026 --> 00:19:10.756 The biggest miss is we forget that we are leading humans. 00:19:11.866 --> 00:19:19.576 Like really, humans are balls of emotion, and we all operate based on our past experiences in the events in our life. 00:19:19.966 --> 00:19:21.436 Period, full stop. 00:19:21.916 --> 00:19:33.946 But we are also mammals, so we have chemicals that get released in our brain based on very certain things that we, uh, that are in our DNA that are part of our developmental as a mammal. 00:19:34.366 --> 00:19:36.826 And if we don't recognize that. 00:19:37.276 --> 00:19:39.616 Bond produces certain chemicals. 00:19:39.616 --> 00:19:40.696 'cause we are a herd animal. 00:19:40.696 --> 00:19:44.296 We recognize that if someone is not watching the cave, the saber tooth is going to get us. 00:19:44.476 --> 00:19:48.646 We were built in a way to release the right chemicals to keep us as bonded. 00:19:49.066 --> 00:19:49.336 Right. 00:19:49.336 --> 00:19:55.906 We, we also have cortisol, which is the negative chemical 'cause we're fearful and things of fight and flight is a, is a very key response. 00:19:55.966 --> 00:20:05.656 And so where we go wrong is we think a spreadsheet or we think a different sort of email, or we think there must be a very complicated strategic plan that we could pull out. 00:20:06.341 --> 00:20:07.901 Really what it comes down to. 00:20:08.051 --> 00:20:09.071 It's not the lighthouse. 00:20:09.071 --> 00:20:10.061 We don't know where we're headed. 00:20:10.211 --> 00:20:11.411 It's the boat is broken. 00:20:12.041 --> 00:20:18.341 Um, and the boat is made of humans and every human needs to right. 00:20:18.371 --> 00:20:20.771 Feel that, that emotion of where are we headed? 00:20:20.771 --> 00:20:28.091 And when we press pause as leaders and truly just check in with our team, figure out where they are on that human level. 00:20:28.481 --> 00:20:30.041 That's why they would follow you. 00:20:31.021 --> 00:20:38.011 People strategically, like we're put in principal positions, we're put in as a CEO or as a floor manager. 00:20:38.161 --> 00:20:40.501 Those are titles and that's some power that's given to you. 00:20:40.651 --> 00:20:43.021 But your team decides if they wanna follow. 00:20:43.051 --> 00:20:48.391 And the way that they, the reason they would follow is if you have some level of credibility and you build credibility. 00:20:49.366 --> 00:20:51.046 By showing up for them as a human. 00:20:51.556 --> 00:20:52.696 That's where we go wrong. 00:20:52.696 --> 00:20:58.636 We make an assumption that because of title or because we have a great plan, everyone will follow it. 00:20:58.636 --> 00:21:00.676 Of course, they're gonna see this amazing plan. 00:21:00.916 --> 00:21:11.116 It's, but they won't, if they don't feel valued, if they don't feel like they matter to that plan, if they don't feel like they're included in that plan, there's some level of partnership or ownership. 00:21:11.386 --> 00:21:12.466 We've just sort of missed it. 00:21:13.171 --> 00:21:25.921 And I kid you not, I would say 90% of the dilemmas that are brought to my table when we really peel back the onion, it's, we're missing that idea of we're not fulfilling some of those human needs. 00:21:26.461 --> 00:21:29.161 Uh, in order to, for someone to truly want to follow. 00:21:30.541 --> 00:21:33.481 Mike Caldwell: Oh man, there's so, so much in there. 00:21:33.541 --> 00:21:37.081 Um, that, that way, so, so true. 00:21:37.081 --> 00:21:37.381 And. 00:21:38.416 --> 00:21:43.036 Just recent conversations that I've had with either leaders or teachers that are struggling. 00:21:43.726 --> 00:21:45.196 All of this is resonating. 00:21:45.766 --> 00:21:48.796 And here's, here's something that's been on my mind I wanna talk to you about. 00:21:48.826 --> 00:21:58.156 Like, we have all kinds of different people that are in leadership positions, not necessarily leaders, but they're in leadership positions. 00:21:58.756 --> 00:22:04.936 And some have really strong relational, you know. 00:22:06.346 --> 00:22:18.496 You know, skills or just natural tendencies to connect, build relationships, um, help people feel valued, um, and connect. 00:22:19.771 --> 00:22:46.921 Others that are put in relate in, in, in leadership positions are doers and love, a good spreadsheet and can whip together a strategic plan and, and get stuff done, but maybe lack the human element or lack a, a desire or a comfort in, in the relational side of things. 00:22:49.441 --> 00:22:53.251 Should that person just get outta leadership or, I mean, do they have a chance? 00:22:54.031 --> 00:22:56.071 How do you, how do you fix that, Nick? 00:22:56.071 --> 00:23:06.511 Because some people are just like, they want to be in a room working on a spreadsheet, but yet they're in a leadership position in a complex organization, like a school that is 00:23:08.521 --> 00:23:14.761 just rounded by relationships and people and humans. 00:23:14.791 --> 00:23:15.181 What. 00:23:17.101 --> 00:23:19.201 Should they just leave or do they have a shot? 00:23:22.291 --> 00:23:25.981 Nick Pretacky: Remember at the beginning of this where I said, I'm super excited to be here. 00:23:26.251 --> 00:23:27.901 That's so awesome. 00:23:27.901 --> 00:23:30.241 I would spend hours talking to you about this. 00:23:30.241 --> 00:23:33.301 'cause this is like, this is like real, like, let's peel it back. 00:23:33.301 --> 00:23:34.021 Let's talk. 00:23:34.291 --> 00:23:40.866 Let's let 100% believe in bond mastery and belief. 00:23:41.326 --> 00:23:44.521 And I think everybody can be taught how to be a leader. 00:23:44.671 --> 00:23:45.811 I do think you're. 00:23:46.621 --> 00:23:50.581 Having some conversation there about management versus leadership. 00:23:50.941 --> 00:23:53.491 Great leaders need to manage and great managers need to lead. 00:23:53.911 --> 00:24:00.751 Um, but those are very different, different activities in order to manage a situation or lead a situation. 00:24:01.401 --> 00:24:07.011 Many times we're put into positions where they're looking for a manager, and other times they're looking for leaders. 00:24:07.281 --> 00:24:08.841 Um, and sometimes both. 00:24:08.841 --> 00:24:13.371 And I think it's okay to recognize when do I need to show up as a manager and when do I need to show up as a leader? 00:24:13.491 --> 00:24:15.711 There are times people want an answer. 00:24:16.011 --> 00:24:19.371 People need to know what to do, and they need to be managed. 00:24:19.491 --> 00:24:20.271 And they will, they will. 00:24:20.451 --> 00:24:22.611 But there's many other times that they need to be led. 00:24:22.791 --> 00:24:25.461 And the best way to know is to ask 'em. 00:24:26.086 --> 00:24:28.156 To really like to, to truly dig into that. 00:24:28.306 --> 00:24:30.406 We're all motivated by different things. 00:24:30.736 --> 00:24:35.236 Uh, I know a lot of people that listen to this podcast are in the educational realm, right? 00:24:35.236 --> 00:24:42.856 And we're shoulder tapped to move up, um, probably in their own, um, in their own schools or their own districts most of the time. 00:24:42.856 --> 00:24:43.636 Who gets shoulder tapped? 00:24:44.716 --> 00:24:45.556 High performers. 00:24:46.096 --> 00:24:46.336 Mike Caldwell: Yep. 00:24:46.336 --> 00:24:58.786 Nick Pretacky: The best teachers are being shoulder tapped to become a mentor or to become, uh, you know, the, the curriculum lead in your building or the lead of the fourth grade team, or run the PLC or maybe you're a dean, you get shoulder tapped to be the assistant principal, right? 00:24:58.786 --> 00:25:05.056 Because you're high performing, high performing at a different thing than what it takes to be a leader. 00:25:05.506 --> 00:25:08.026 And that's a leap that we need to make. 00:25:08.086 --> 00:25:09.526 And just be honest about that. 00:25:10.711 --> 00:25:13.051 We are also changing the stakeholder group. 00:25:13.051 --> 00:25:14.641 That's the most important. 00:25:15.691 --> 00:25:17.671 Students are the most important. 00:25:17.671 --> 00:25:20.191 I'm probably gonna get kicked off your podcast when I'm ready to say this, right? 00:25:20.281 --> 00:25:24.331 I am not here to tell you that students are not the most important in a, in a school. 00:25:24.331 --> 00:25:24.571 I'm not. 00:25:24.571 --> 00:25:24.901 I'm not. 00:25:24.931 --> 00:25:26.311 I'm not gonna go live and say that. 00:25:26.311 --> 00:25:27.151 I probably just did. 00:25:27.571 --> 00:25:31.771 But when you're a teacher, your number one stakeholder group is students. 00:25:32.431 --> 00:25:37.351 When you become the leader of a building, your number one stakeholder group are the teachers. 00:25:39.151 --> 00:25:40.561 If you show up for them, I might picked off 00:25:40.561 --> 00:25:42.541 Mike Caldwell: the podcast too, 'cause I agree with that 00:25:43.441 --> 00:25:49.951 Nick Pretacky: and we've, but oftentimes we got shoulder tapped to be the leader because we're so darn good with students. 00:25:50.011 --> 00:25:50.221 Mike Caldwell: Yeah. 00:25:50.431 --> 00:25:54.241 Nick Pretacky: And then, and a principal said this to me, uh, about six months ago when I was interviewed. 00:25:54.241 --> 00:25:55.501 They're like, you know what, this. 00:25:56.041 --> 00:25:59.641 This leading a school thing would be a lot easier if there wasn't a bunch of adults here, right? 00:26:00.121 --> 00:26:00.631 Totally. 00:26:00.691 --> 00:26:01.176 Mike Caldwell: And that is true. 00:26:01.176 --> 00:26:01.496 Totally. 00:26:01.496 --> 00:26:02.221 That is true. 00:26:03.121 --> 00:26:07.501 Nick Pretacky: All of a sudden, the closet door opened and you see all these skeletons in there, right? 00:26:07.681 --> 00:26:13.261 And you see, oh my goodness, I didn't realize this when I was in my third grade room, just crushing it. 00:26:13.411 --> 00:26:16.951 And now I see a lot of these other, it's a different skillset. 00:26:17.131 --> 00:26:20.401 And so for someone to say, I've never met a leader that doesn't need support. 00:26:21.331 --> 00:26:21.901 They all do. 00:26:21.901 --> 00:26:22.351 I did. 00:26:22.411 --> 00:26:24.511 I still do on a regular basis. 00:26:24.571 --> 00:26:29.911 So of course we might have some struggle with, I'm really good at this management activity. 00:26:29.911 --> 00:26:30.601 I'm really good at this. 00:26:30.601 --> 00:26:36.991 I'm a great strategic visionary kind of person, but I do need some help with how do I build some EI. 00:26:37.516 --> 00:26:39.316 How do I build some emotional intelligence? 00:26:39.316 --> 00:26:42.286 How do I understand what my emotions are and what other people's emotions are? 00:26:42.286 --> 00:26:44.806 When I walk into a room, what do, what does that look like? 00:26:44.896 --> 00:26:49.126 How do I create action around some of my intention? 00:26:49.126 --> 00:26:50.836 Because people don't follow intention, right? 00:26:50.836 --> 00:26:52.156 They follow how we behave. 00:26:52.396 --> 00:26:59.516 So how do I create those right routines where I show up in a consistent way every day so that people start to believe I, I am. 00:26:59.966 --> 00:27:00.896 Showing up for them. 00:27:01.076 --> 00:27:03.926 Those are skills that we absolutely can discuss. 00:27:03.926 --> 00:27:05.726 Those are skills we can practice. 00:27:05.756 --> 00:27:11.336 Those are behaviors that we can start to do and then build them into routine and start to show up more as a leader. 00:27:11.936 --> 00:27:16.106 And I don't know any leader that that has it all figured out. 00:27:16.406 --> 00:27:19.751 So the last per piece I would say to someone is, hang in there. 00:27:20.416 --> 00:27:21.376 Ask for help. 00:27:21.856 --> 00:27:26.956 Have the willingness to be vulnerable about what you need to work on and the courage to go do it right. 00:27:26.956 --> 00:27:29.176 I think is a, is a really big conversation. 00:27:29.176 --> 00:27:30.976 'cause we all need to get better at something. 00:27:31.636 --> 00:27:37.846 Um, and if someone's willing to do that, and usually your team will tell you if you're willing to ask. 00:27:39.106 --> 00:27:41.746 Mike Caldwell: Well, I wrote down something as you were talking. 00:27:41.746 --> 00:27:43.486 I mean, there's so much again in there, but. 00:27:46.561 --> 00:27:55.891 You know, you might be really strong on the relational side or really strong on the management side or you know, but you hands are, you're not, you're not strong like everywhere. 00:27:55.891 --> 00:27:58.291 You have some, some holes, you have some areas. 00:27:58.711 --> 00:28:00.781 I mean, that's just gonna be the fact. 00:28:02.311 --> 00:28:08.431 But where it starts, I think, is having the humility and self-awareness to. 00:28:09.046 --> 00:28:15.196 To say that, to be okay with saying, I have, I have some things I need to work on. 00:28:15.196 --> 00:28:20.266 And being aware enough to say, okay, I'm really strong here, but man, I really need to grow here. 00:28:20.386 --> 00:28:23.506 And as a school leader, or just maybe as a leader in general. 00:28:23.506 --> 00:28:26.836 And I haven't led in a lot of other areas outside of education, but. 00:28:28.381 --> 00:28:33.421 You are dealing with so many complex humans all at once, that have so many different needs. 00:28:33.421 --> 00:28:43.411 Parents, staff, I mean, even within your staff you have, you know, a lot of variety within staff and then students and all the and um. 00:28:44.731 --> 00:28:59.131 It's, it makes it exponentially harder because you're dealing with so many, so much variety of, of, of, of people while also trying to move this, this me, you know, huge ship forward and make some significant gain. 00:28:59.131 --> 00:29:00.901 So it's a really, really hard job. 00:29:01.261 --> 00:29:03.511 And so if someone's doing this job. 00:29:04.176 --> 00:29:14.556 And personally believe if they're, they don't have somebody that they're leaning on for kind of some regular coaching and mentoring, um, they're doing themself. 00:29:14.616 --> 00:29:19.836 And honestly, I think their school a disservice because there's some holes there, there's some gaps. 00:29:20.196 --> 00:29:26.286 I know I had them and still do that, uh, that I needed help on and I still need help on. 00:29:26.646 --> 00:29:32.471 And, uh, but I think it really starts with that humility and self-awareness and willingness to, willingness to say, okay, I'm. 00:29:33.406 --> 00:29:37.636 I wanna get better and grow as a leader and, and I need some help on doing that. 00:29:37.936 --> 00:29:42.256 And I don't think it happens typically in a eight hour workshop over a weekend. 00:29:42.256 --> 00:29:50.266 I think it happens in small conversations like this where you can really zoom in on, on where I'm strong, strong, and where I'm struggling. 00:29:52.546 --> 00:29:54.646 Nick Pretacky: Leaders are learners, right? 00:29:54.916 --> 00:29:56.331 Like leaders are always learning. 00:29:57.151 --> 00:30:00.751 And they're willing to have that humility that they're, that there's always something more. 00:30:01.081 --> 00:30:03.091 They're, they're, they're curious, right? 00:30:03.091 --> 00:30:05.521 They're, uh, they're asking those kinds of questions. 00:30:05.881 --> 00:30:08.731 And for a variety, one, we do need to get better, right? 00:30:08.731 --> 00:30:10.411 We're trying to figure things out. 00:30:10.411 --> 00:30:15.871 We, um, I would always tell people if, if my team only went as far as I could take 'em, it's not far enough. 00:30:16.441 --> 00:30:18.211 Um, there are other people that are gonna help me. 00:30:18.331 --> 00:30:18.451 Mike Caldwell: Mm-hmm. 00:30:18.691 --> 00:30:22.351 Nick Pretacky: But when we're in leadership situations, when I was the leader of a school. 00:30:22.581 --> 00:30:30.231 A whole building and a staff and parents and stakeholders and a board, and to think about how stressed that is. 00:30:30.441 --> 00:30:31.971 Who do you turn to? 00:30:31.971 --> 00:30:32.421 Mike? 00:30:32.991 --> 00:30:38.601 Like who can you have an open and honest dialogue with that has no stake in the game? 00:30:39.231 --> 00:30:39.471 Right? 00:30:39.471 --> 00:30:45.621 Is that, is that someone I should talk to my leadership team with my board president, my favorite parent? 00:30:46.431 --> 00:30:48.051 Do I bring that home to my partner? 00:30:48.556 --> 00:30:55.126 No, but we got that crazy in our head sometimes where we were like, I don't, I don't know if I'm good enough, right? 00:30:55.126 --> 00:31:07.096 I don't know if, if, um, that's the right move or I can't sleep at night 'cause I'm worried about passing that, that budget, all the things, it's okay to just check in and find that right person that doesn't have any stake except you. 00:31:07.621 --> 00:31:07.861 Mike Caldwell: Yep. 00:31:08.041 --> 00:31:08.341 Nick Pretacky: Right. 00:31:08.341 --> 00:31:12.721 They're willing to ask the tough questions, be a soft accountability partner, right? 00:31:12.811 --> 00:31:17.401 But also be that, that, that avenue to just listen and to help you reframe. 00:31:17.401 --> 00:31:23.401 Most leaders that I work with, they have all the answers, but they do get a little bit jumbled because we're human. 00:31:23.691 --> 00:31:26.901 And all the emotions jumble our logic. 00:31:26.961 --> 00:31:35.991 And so some people need to help us unpack some of those emotions to get our logic back in order so we can use the right part of our brain to kind of move our group forward. 00:31:36.171 --> 00:31:37.641 And I think you're, you're right. 00:31:37.731 --> 00:31:48.411 Um, on for some reason though, we haven't given leaders the permission to say. 00:31:49.036 --> 00:31:56.386 I need some help and I might wanna coach, or I need a, an accountability partner, or I need to meet with someone on a regular basis to process this. 00:31:56.626 --> 00:32:03.736 A lot of individuals feel like, because I was hired to be the superintendent of this district, I should have it all figured out. 00:32:04.481 --> 00:32:13.001 And my advice to lots of boards that I, that I talk to is when you hire your next superintendent, make sure there is a, there's a package in there for a coach. 00:32:13.031 --> 00:32:13.121 Yes. 00:32:13.121 --> 00:32:14.441 It's just part of the expectation. 00:32:14.531 --> 00:32:14.621 Yeah. 00:32:14.651 --> 00:32:20.531 We just believe that you're an amazing person and a gift we are going to give you is we're gonna have you find a coach 00:32:20.711 --> 00:32:20.891 Mike Caldwell: Yes. 00:32:20.951 --> 00:32:22.666 Nick Pretacky: Um, to support you with that journey that. 00:32:23.501 --> 00:32:31.421 Will pay off, I guarantee you more than, than whatever that that number is to, to help them, uh, you know, get, get them over the edge. 00:32:31.451 --> 00:32:40.301 And I think there are a group of, of leaders out there that understand that level of importance and might even take that package if they knew, because now I know the board gets it too. 00:32:40.421 --> 00:32:40.751 Mike Caldwell: Yeah. 00:32:40.841 --> 00:32:41.981 Nick Pretacky: My board gets it. 00:32:42.131 --> 00:32:42.401 Mike Caldwell: Yep. 00:32:42.611 --> 00:32:43.391 Absolutely. 00:32:43.781 --> 00:32:43.901 Yeah. 00:32:43.901 --> 00:32:46.541 And I, I wonder, you know, I, is it. 00:32:47.191 --> 00:32:48.181 Is it pride? 00:32:48.181 --> 00:32:50.761 Is it, is it maybe lack of resources? 00:32:50.761 --> 00:32:53.281 Is it, you know what, it's probably a variety of things. 00:32:53.431 --> 00:33:01.711 Why more leaders don't have, or reach out and, and connect with a, a leadership coach or a mentor to help, help support them. 00:33:01.711 --> 00:33:07.951 I think it's crucial for their longevity in the, in the, in the work. 00:33:08.011 --> 00:33:10.021 And I also, I, I also see it as like. 00:33:10.451 --> 00:33:16.661 A form of ongoing maintenance, not just a bailout when things get overwhelming that you go to somebody and get that support. 00:33:16.661 --> 00:33:24.221 But it should be kind of part of ki I I put it in the same realm of, you know, getting as much sleep as you can. 00:33:25.001 --> 00:33:31.631 Nutrition, you know, drinking water, exercise, having access to a mentor or a coach. 00:33:31.631 --> 00:33:32.321 That's that. 00:33:32.471 --> 00:33:39.761 Like, if you can build some of that into your regular maintenance as a leader, you're gonna be exponentially more. 00:33:40.486 --> 00:33:47.026 It better, I mean, impactful as a, as a leader, but sometimes it's like those are the things we drop off. 00:33:47.026 --> 00:33:54.766 All those things I just mentioned are like, well, I'm gonna just, you know, eat this burrito because I, I'm standing up because I don't have a time for a really good lunch. 00:33:54.766 --> 00:33:59.176 Or, you know, I'm staying up late, worried about this or whatever else. 00:33:59.176 --> 00:34:02.776 I'm not getting to sleep and I don't have time for a mentor or a coach. 00:34:02.776 --> 00:34:04.066 And it's like all those things. 00:34:04.416 --> 00:34:09.126 Are gonna sustain you, um, in this, in this work, in this really hard work. 00:34:09.126 --> 00:34:12.486 But they're the first things to get kind of dropped off the list. 00:34:13.806 --> 00:34:22.326 Is there also a, I don't know, a, this, this feeling of like maybe, um. 00:34:24.991 --> 00:34:25.711 I, I don't know right. 00:34:25.711 --> 00:34:37.141 The, the right word where I, I feel like if I'm, if I'm working with a leadership coach or a mentor, that, that maybe I'm not, you know, not strong enough as a leader that I can't do this, this on my own. 00:34:37.141 --> 00:34:38.761 Do you think there's that mentality out there? 00:34:40.471 --> 00:34:41.461 Nick Pretacky: 100%. 00:34:42.241 --> 00:34:59.011 Like, yeah, that's that permission piece I think is that, um, what if someone knows that I have that A lot of times, back to your earlier point, I think our past experiences and events in our life tell us that when you have that you're in the penalty box. 00:35:00.091 --> 00:35:01.171 Something must have happened. 00:35:01.561 --> 00:35:02.731 So now we're giving you that. 00:35:02.851 --> 00:35:03.476 We wait till, oh. 00:35:04.156 --> 00:35:10.756 Whether it's a breakdown mentally or a job performance issue, now you need to work with said person to get through that. 00:35:10.786 --> 00:35:10.966 Mike Caldwell: Ah, 00:35:10.966 --> 00:35:11.056 Nick Pretacky: yes. 00:35:11.056 --> 00:35:11.236 Right. 00:35:11.236 --> 00:35:18.886 It's a performance and, and it is much more punitive and performance rather than, to your point, it's maintenance, right? 00:35:18.886 --> 00:35:20.476 We're not waiting for the car to break down. 00:35:20.476 --> 00:35:24.646 We're, we're, we're going to give, give that an oil change so our car consistently works. 00:35:24.766 --> 00:35:26.716 And so I think there is a, some. 00:35:27.466 --> 00:35:35.356 Misconception out there that if you're working with it, there must be something wrong and not necessarily like that's your ticket to full human potential. 00:35:36.076 --> 00:35:41.386 That's your, that's your opportunity to maximize your ability to lead people. 00:35:41.686 --> 00:35:48.316 They're gonna squeeze every idea you have, and they're going to, um, give it rocket fuel to support you. 00:35:48.316 --> 00:35:50.626 That's the way I, I, I look at, at, at some of that. 00:35:50.896 --> 00:35:54.106 I'm not here to say everybody should have a coach, not necessarily, but I. 00:35:54.441 --> 00:35:58.071 Don't know a leader out there that doesn't need some level of support. 00:35:58.161 --> 00:35:59.631 And so what does that look like? 00:35:59.631 --> 00:36:05.931 And if nothing else outta this podcast, I hope everybody has that reflection of how am I continuing to grow? 00:36:05.961 --> 00:36:07.371 Who is supporting me? 00:36:07.671 --> 00:36:12.591 Um, I know that, um, if we're not doing it. 00:36:13.216 --> 00:36:16.696 It's really hard to ask someone else to do it. 00:36:16.966 --> 00:36:17.386 Mike Caldwell: Yes. 00:36:17.476 --> 00:36:31.186 Nick Pretacky: And for me, I have a mentor, I have a, I have my own personal coach that if I'm not meeting with them, like I know that I'm not maximizing and I was probably not a very good coach until I started to recognize I needed to have one as as well. 00:36:31.516 --> 00:36:33.256 And I think that's just a, a really big piece. 00:36:33.256 --> 00:36:34.366 'cause we do a lot of that. 00:36:34.576 --> 00:36:35.656 Leaders grow leaders. 00:36:35.656 --> 00:36:36.496 That's our job. 00:36:36.616 --> 00:36:38.056 Our job is not to build a kingdom. 00:36:38.386 --> 00:36:38.596 Right. 00:36:38.596 --> 00:36:42.166 It's to build a legacy and, um, our, it is to grow more leaders. 00:36:42.166 --> 00:36:46.306 But in order to do that, we also have to recognize we need to continuously grow. 00:36:46.456 --> 00:36:47.866 So who are we leaning on? 00:36:47.926 --> 00:36:49.246 Who are we reaching out to? 00:36:49.246 --> 00:36:51.106 What podcast are we listening to? 00:36:51.376 --> 00:36:54.766 Uh, in order to, to continue to grow and challenge ourselves? 00:36:54.766 --> 00:36:58.006 We, you know, we gotta get, get, get, get busy getting better. 00:36:58.126 --> 00:36:59.236 Mike Caldwell: Yeah, absolutely. 00:37:00.526 --> 00:37:01.726 A hundred percent. 00:37:01.876 --> 00:37:22.036 I wanna shift gears a little bit and uh, just 'cause I read your story and I love it, and, uh, I wanted, I want you to share maybe the, the Michael story and, and within that, um, you know, well, I'll let let you tell, tell the story and then I'll ask the question. 00:37:22.036 --> 00:37:22.606 How about that? 00:37:22.666 --> 00:37:23.776 Let's, let's start with the story. 00:37:26.416 --> 00:37:26.746 Nick Pretacky: Great. 00:37:26.836 --> 00:37:27.346 Um, so. 00:37:28.801 --> 00:37:44.281 I, I had an opportunity to, um, to be a leader in a school, um, that, uh, was struggling and we were able to, uh, to do a lot of great things to, to really re-envision like who we are and, and to really like, dig into some of the student behavior. 00:37:44.641 --> 00:37:50.161 And, um, and I think this story of Michael just really summarizes a lot of that work. 00:37:50.761 --> 00:37:52.141 Um, Michael was, um. 00:37:53.656 --> 00:38:00.316 The kind of kid that if your weed whacker was broken, you could like bring it in and by the end of the day he would fix it. 00:38:00.676 --> 00:38:00.976 Right? 00:38:00.976 --> 00:38:03.526 I mean, he would just, I don't know what he did, he just disappeared. 00:38:03.526 --> 00:38:07.756 He came back and it was working and there were like three screws he didn't use that were still left out. 00:38:07.756 --> 00:38:07.996 Right. 00:38:08.356 --> 00:38:10.456 I mean, he was, he was that kind of student. 00:38:10.486 --> 00:38:13.966 Um, unfortunately, you know, Michael got into a lot of trouble. 00:38:14.896 --> 00:38:21.376 It, you know, it followed him and, um, and he had some anger and, and the emotions often got the best of him. 00:38:21.916 --> 00:38:31.876 And, uh, on this particular day, um, you know, I was, I was called down to, to, to Michael where, where Michael was in his classroom. 00:38:31.876 --> 00:38:38.086 He would, he was, it was reported that he had some, um, some narcotics on him and, and he needed to get outta the room. 00:38:38.086 --> 00:38:40.156 He was, he was, he was loud, he was obnoxious. 00:38:40.606 --> 00:38:41.116 So. 00:38:41.521 --> 00:38:43.381 Go down to get Michael bringing him back. 00:38:43.411 --> 00:38:50.971 And um, you know, as we're entering back into the, uh, like the office area, I could just hear through the wall. 00:38:51.361 --> 00:38:55.681 Michael's mom already just screaming, just screaming at our office assistant. 00:38:55.741 --> 00:39:01.681 And you could just see Michael just sort of drop where it was like it was another one of those days. 00:39:02.071 --> 00:39:05.011 Got Michael back into my office and I said, Hey, you know. 00:39:05.896 --> 00:39:08.176 Michael, you're gonna have to empty, empty your, your pockets. 00:39:08.176 --> 00:39:09.346 You know, what, what do, what do you have? 00:39:09.346 --> 00:39:11.146 And he starts emptying his pockets. 00:39:11.146 --> 00:39:12.826 And there was like a chapstick in there. 00:39:12.826 --> 00:39:15.556 There was a couple of things that, yep, that shouldn't have been in there. 00:39:15.646 --> 00:39:17.206 He's gonna need to go home. 00:39:17.536 --> 00:39:20.926 Um, a note was in there, a a, a washer was in there. 00:39:20.926 --> 00:39:22.036 He sort of empties it all out. 00:39:22.036 --> 00:39:25.996 And eventually, you know, we needed to get him, um, to get him home. 00:39:26.266 --> 00:39:27.946 And, you know, most students wouldn't. 00:39:28.376 --> 00:39:29.726 Necessarily empty their pockets for you. 00:39:29.726 --> 00:39:30.986 You'd have to go through a whole process. 00:39:30.986 --> 00:39:32.786 But we had that relationship and that was Michael. 00:39:32.786 --> 00:39:35.276 He was always very, uh, very straight to it. 00:39:35.786 --> 00:39:41.876 Um, unfortunately his PO had to come pick him up, and, and that was a, that was an ordeal, um, that he had left. 00:39:41.876 --> 00:39:43.826 And you know, those days where you. 00:39:44.276 --> 00:39:46.526 You're rooting for kids as, as leaders, right? 00:39:46.526 --> 00:39:51.476 And as teachers, I mean, we just, we carry that weight and we just get so defeated. 00:39:51.476 --> 00:39:59.426 And so when I returned to my office, I remember I was, I was half mad where I wanted to kick a chair and I half wanted to sit on the chair and start to cry, right? 00:39:59.426 --> 00:40:01.556 Because you're just like, you know, what are we gonna do? 00:40:02.036 --> 00:40:10.496 And I'm cleaning off my, my table where he had emptied out his pocket and there was that note that he had taken out of his, um, out of his, uh, out of his. 00:40:11.086 --> 00:40:11.536 Genes. 00:40:11.536 --> 00:40:23.446 And earlier in that year, or like we had decided as a staff that we needed to make a bigger impact on those students that had repeat behavior problems. 00:40:23.716 --> 00:40:32.146 So one of the thoughts that we had was we were gonna write a message to every single kid that had repeat behaviors, and we were gonna tell them how important they were. 00:40:32.326 --> 00:40:34.606 We are gonna tell them how much they were needed at our school. 00:40:34.606 --> 00:40:36.736 We are gonna build that bond that we talked about earlier. 00:40:36.886 --> 00:40:40.261 We're gonna tell 'em how significant they were, that note that he had taken on. 00:40:40.576 --> 00:40:45.136 This pocket, when I undid it, it was the note from his teacher. 00:40:46.021 --> 00:40:51.391 From months before, and he's still carrying that around in his pocket that day. 00:40:51.751 --> 00:40:54.601 That's the power that we have as educators. 00:40:54.781 --> 00:40:57.451 That's how much we matter to our students. 00:40:57.631 --> 00:40:58.741 They don't always tell us. 00:40:58.891 --> 00:41:02.461 In fact, sometimes the way they tell us kind of hurts our feelings, right? 00:41:02.611 --> 00:41:08.191 But they absolutely like follow what we have to say and the impact that we make. 00:41:08.191 --> 00:41:10.741 And I, I love that story because. 00:41:11.141 --> 00:41:19.061 Sometimes we have to take a step back as we're doing school improvement, as we're trying to hit those benchmarks, we're trying to get that next data point. 00:41:19.061 --> 00:41:26.411 We're trying to prep for that test, and we just have to remember how much we matter to the humans that are in front of us every day, and the power that we have. 00:41:26.801 --> 00:41:28.241 Educators are super heroes. 00:41:28.241 --> 00:41:36.311 Mike 100% superheroes, and his teacher was a superhero because she absolutely impacted his life as he looked at that note. 00:41:36.826 --> 00:41:37.696 I mean, every day. 00:41:37.876 --> 00:41:38.116 Yeah. 00:41:38.116 --> 00:41:39.526 He probably wore the same jeans a lot. 00:41:39.526 --> 00:41:45.466 I'm not gonna lie to you, but, uh, that note had transferred, uh, and that's, that's a pretty powerful situation. 00:41:45.736 --> 00:41:46.216 Mike Caldwell: I love it. 00:41:46.576 --> 00:41:46.966 Yeah. 00:41:47.236 --> 00:41:48.346 Such a good story. 00:41:48.406 --> 00:41:58.876 Um, and honestly, one to kind of help wrap, wrap this up, you started with a great story with our, with the backcountry, uh, dilemma, um, and then finishing that story. 00:41:58.876 --> 00:42:01.576 But I think that's a really good one to, to kind of. 00:42:02.361 --> 00:42:05.691 Think about and you know, but that wouldn't have happened. 00:42:05.841 --> 00:42:10.131 That note in his pocket wouldn't have happened without your leadership. 00:42:10.131 --> 00:42:13.371 The, the teacher wrote that letter because you. 00:42:15.466 --> 00:42:18.736 Called, you know, some action and say, Hey, we're gonna do this. 00:42:18.766 --> 00:42:22.726 And maybe she would've maybe, or he or she would've wr wr written that note. 00:42:22.726 --> 00:42:28.996 But the probability of of that was higher because you said, as a leader, this is something we're gonna do. 00:42:29.056 --> 00:42:36.316 And you made it a priority and, uh, made a huge impact, obviously, on that student where he's carrying that note around. 00:42:36.676 --> 00:42:37.971 Remember the year after? 00:42:39.436 --> 00:42:41.776 Co COVID for, for our school. 00:42:42.256 --> 00:43:04.246 You know, when we spent a whole year trying to distance kids and masks and all this stuff and kind of undoing some of the damage with that, we did a whole initiative, um, on noticing, naming and knowing students, and it was just noticed, named and known, making sure that every student felt, when they walked in, they were noticed. 00:43:05.086 --> 00:43:06.256 They were named. 00:43:06.991 --> 00:43:11.131 And then it's kind of a, the next level is, is really knowing them. 00:43:13.681 --> 00:43:17.191 I think that's so important that we, we don't lose track of that. 00:43:17.281 --> 00:43:24.991 Um, and our teachers have so much impact in doing that, but sometimes, as I mean, but really as leaders, we need to kind of put that front and center. 00:43:25.021 --> 00:43:28.831 'cause they're, it's not just gonna happen out of, out of thin air. 00:43:28.831 --> 00:43:33.781 We kind of have to push those things forward to, to make them a reality in our schools. 00:43:33.781 --> 00:43:38.341 So the example that you gave with the notes, you know, the, that initiative that we had, it's like you gotta. 00:43:38.406 --> 00:43:40.446 You gotta push those things and make those important. 00:43:40.506 --> 00:43:45.036 And, uh, when you have the, the bond, the mastery and the belief things happen, 00:43:47.106 --> 00:43:48.036 Nick Pretacky: uh, 100%. 00:43:48.036 --> 00:43:49.536 I love that notice named and known. 00:43:49.536 --> 00:43:59.316 And, you know, with the notes and things like that, those are all 100% in our control, how people choose to act, how people show up in a meeting, right? 00:43:59.881 --> 00:44:02.281 A lot of that, that stuff we're, we're losing sleep over. 00:44:02.281 --> 00:44:03.931 That's, that's out of our control. 00:44:04.381 --> 00:44:11.101 But tomorrow, you could give a note to somebody that's 100% in your control and how they would wanna respond to it. 00:44:11.281 --> 00:44:20.521 Just knowing that that's helping someone be noticed, it's helping name them right, and it's helping to get to know them and know that they're valued in their cared about a hundred percent in your control. 00:44:20.761 --> 00:44:25.981 I, I would recommend to every leader that's listening to this every night before you go send one email. 00:44:26.356 --> 00:44:27.406 One email to someone. 00:44:27.616 --> 00:44:28.726 Make it one sentence. 00:44:28.726 --> 00:44:32.746 Be real specific about why you appreciate them, what you noticed, how you know them. 00:44:32.806 --> 00:44:38.446 And just that one email, I promise you, it will release oxytocin in your brain and it'll make you feel a little better on your drive home. 00:44:38.506 --> 00:44:40.096 And when they read it, they'll do it. 00:44:40.096 --> 00:44:41.566 And you know what they're gonna want to do. 00:44:41.746 --> 00:44:43.096 'cause this is how we're built. 00:44:43.276 --> 00:44:45.376 They're gonna wanna do the same thing to someone else. 00:44:45.796 --> 00:44:47.896 And that 100% in your control. 00:44:47.896 --> 00:44:49.066 I love that notice. 00:44:49.066 --> 00:44:49.696 Name and note. 00:44:50.056 --> 00:44:50.536 Thanks. 00:44:50.601 --> 00:44:50.661 I 00:44:51.021 --> 00:44:56.691 Mike Caldwell: was gonna ask as the closing question, like, what's one way you could be a Transformative Principal? 00:44:56.691 --> 00:45:04.641 And I think you just answered it, but giving one great takeaway on how to become a Transformative Principal unless you have another one to top that one. 00:45:04.641 --> 00:45:05.481 That's a really good one. 00:45:05.481 --> 00:45:06.891 So, um, 00:45:06.921 --> 00:45:09.891 Nick Pretacky: yeah, do it, do it every day, every Friday for sure. 00:45:10.666 --> 00:45:11.206 Send it. 00:45:11.296 --> 00:45:22.156 Um, you know, I'm not gonna get too much into, into brain science and neuroscience for you, but there are two different chemicals You want the release of the positive email on your way out when you close your lab laptop, not the other one. 00:45:22.306 --> 00:45:25.226 The cortisol will drive you all weekend, and that's not what we want. 00:45:26.086 --> 00:45:26.806 Mike Caldwell: Absolutely. 00:45:27.286 --> 00:45:28.246 Well, awesome Nick. 00:45:28.246 --> 00:45:30.526 So thanks so much for being on this. 00:45:30.526 --> 00:45:38.026 We'll drop your LinkedIn and whatever else you want in the show notes so people know how to, to reach out to you. 00:45:38.206 --> 00:45:41.326 Perhaps even leave your, your profile link on link leaders. 00:45:41.326 --> 00:45:52.666 So if they wanna connect with you as the, as a, as a coach or a mentor, that you're available to them, you have so much to offer to our, to leaders, not just in education, but outside of education as well, and I've really appreciated. 00:45:53.481 --> 00:45:59.961 Both getting to know you and also picking your brain from time to time and you mentoring me from from time to time. 00:45:59.961 --> 00:46:00.801 So I appreciate that. 00:46:00.801 --> 00:46:05.331 So Nick, thanks again for being part of this and for those that are listening, we'll see you next time. 00:46:05.646 --> 00:46:06.426 Nick Pretacky: Thanks so much, Mike.