WEBVTT 00:00:03.780 --> 00:00:06.750 Jennifer-Lee: Really excited to share one of the episodes 00:00:06.750 --> 00:00:07.920 that we did this past year. 00:00:07.920 --> 00:00:10.740 It is our first live episode. 00:00:11.220 --> 00:00:11.610 Neil McPhedran: That's right. 00:00:11.700 --> 00:00:19.290 So here we are ending out 2025, and we thought the best way to do that would be 00:00:19.290 --> 00:00:23.700 to feature one of our favorite episodes from the year, which was, as you're 00:00:23.700 --> 00:00:29.780 saying, Jen, our live episode with Matt Abrahams from Think Fasts Talk Smart, the 00:00:29.780 --> 00:00:39.410 podcast, and it was recorded live in front of an audience of I think 120, 130 people. 00:00:39.470 --> 00:00:39.710 Uh, 00:00:39.710 --> 00:00:41.960 Jennifer-Lee: I thought it was 150, but maybe that was just, 00:00:41.960 --> 00:00:42.180 Neil McPhedran: There we go. 00:00:42.180 --> 00:00:42.960 Let's go with 150. 00:00:43.525 --> 00:00:48.415 At Higher Ed PodCon in Chicago this past July. 00:00:48.474 --> 00:00:51.084 So have a listen to this episode. 00:00:51.175 --> 00:00:56.214 Jennifer-Lee: And for the new year, we're gonna kick it off with predictions from a 00:00:56.214 --> 00:01:00.625 lot of our friends that we've had on the podcast telling us what you can expect in 00:01:00.625 --> 00:01:03.985 higher education podcasts in the new year. 00:01:04.225 --> 00:01:04.675 Neil McPhedran: That's right. 00:01:04.705 --> 00:01:10.765 So our first episode in two weeks out of the gates in January is 00:01:10.795 --> 00:01:16.405 our prediction episode for 2026, so we're excited about that. 00:01:16.585 --> 00:01:23.570 In the meantime, enjoy this episode from earlier this year and a happy new year to 00:01:23.850 --> 00:01:29.485 everyone, and we look forward to seeing you in real life someplace in 2026. 00:01:29.965 --> 00:01:31.015 Jennifer-Lee: In 2026. 00:01:31.040 --> 00:01:31.530 Excited. 00:01:33.721 --> 00:01:37.321 Neil McPhedran: Welcome to a live recording of Continuing studies, 00:01:37.351 --> 00:01:41.131 a podcast for higher education podcasters to learn and get inspired. 00:01:41.191 --> 00:01:44.926 I'm Neil McPhedran, founder of Podium Podcast Company, 00:01:45.586 --> 00:01:48.136 Jennifer-Lee: and I'm Jennifer-Lee, founder of J Pod Creations, 00:01:48.136 --> 00:01:49.906 broadcasting is podcasting. 00:01:49.906 --> 00:01:51.766 We want you to know you're not alone. 00:01:52.006 --> 00:01:55.366 In fact, there are many of you higher ed podcasters out there, and 00:01:55.366 --> 00:01:57.226 we can all learn from each other. 00:01:57.466 --> 00:02:05.546 Neil McPhedran: Jen, we are fresh back from the first inaugural Higher Ed PodCon, 00:02:05.566 --> 00:02:07.666 speaking of learning from each other. 00:02:07.846 --> 00:02:09.646 Wow, that was incredible. 00:02:10.081 --> 00:02:17.521 Amazing sharing of podcasting, so much learning, so much community forming. 00:02:17.581 --> 00:02:18.991 It was fantastic. 00:02:19.051 --> 00:02:21.901 I've had so many emails, so many LinkedIn notes. 00:02:21.901 --> 00:02:23.101 It's just been phenomenal. 00:02:23.508 --> 00:02:25.008 Jennifer-Lee: I'm really proud of you and the team. 00:02:25.048 --> 00:02:28.408 I know it's something that you have been working on for a very long time, and it 00:02:28.408 --> 00:02:32.048 was really great to be there and do this live interview, but I felt pretty proud. 00:02:32.088 --> 00:02:36.008 I was sitting there as like, I know the people that put this on. 00:02:36.688 --> 00:02:37.228 Neil McPhedran: That's awesome. 00:02:37.338 --> 00:02:39.388 Yeah, I mean the, the conference was amazing. 00:02:40.138 --> 00:02:43.108 This episode is quite special. 00:02:43.288 --> 00:02:45.348 It was actually a lot fun to be on stage. 00:02:45.618 --> 00:02:45.908 Yeah. 00:02:45.908 --> 00:02:46.588 Long time coming. 00:02:46.608 --> 00:02:50.308 And it was fun to be up on a stage doing a live episode. 00:02:50.788 --> 00:02:53.988 I mean, I've been involved with live episodes before on the other 00:02:54.178 --> 00:02:58.188 sort of production end, but this is my first time recording a live 00:02:58.188 --> 00:03:00.628 episode of a podcast up on a stage. 00:03:00.628 --> 00:03:04.328 And we had almost 150 people that we were speaking to. 00:03:04.548 --> 00:03:09.208 And if you're curious, on this one, we speak with Matt Abrahams 00:03:09.398 --> 00:03:11.848 from Think Fast Talk Smart. 00:03:12.048 --> 00:03:18.328 Matt is a professor at the Stanford Graduate School of Business where he 00:03:18.328 --> 00:03:24.048 teaches strategic communication and we've been wanting to have him on for a while. 00:03:24.388 --> 00:03:29.618 And what better way to do it than to have him on live in front of an audience. 00:03:29.838 --> 00:03:32.058 So this was a really cool episode. 00:03:32.288 --> 00:03:34.178 Jennifer-Lee: Yeah, it makes me wanna do more live's too. 00:03:34.448 --> 00:03:35.138 Neil McPhedran: Yeah, me too. 00:03:35.498 --> 00:03:38.378 I, I did come outta that feeling the same way. 00:03:38.378 --> 00:03:40.458 Like, we should do more, do more live. 00:03:40.618 --> 00:03:41.058 I liked it. 00:03:41.118 --> 00:03:41.618 It was fun. 00:03:42.018 --> 00:03:43.138 Jennifer-Lee: So, let's get into it. 00:03:44.558 --> 00:03:51.248 Gregg Oldring: So we have, for us today, the hosts Neil McPhedran and Jennifer-Lee 00:03:55.528 --> 00:03:58.538 here to interview and record as an episode. 00:03:59.438 --> 00:04:03.978 Our keynote today has had 215 episodes over five years. 00:04:04.428 --> 00:04:09.978 68 million plays, 2,600,000 followers. 00:04:10.448 --> 00:04:15.498 It's the number one careers podcast in 125 countries. 00:04:15.928 --> 00:04:23.428 The host of Think Fast Talk Smart, Stanford GSB Lecturer, Matt Abrahams. 00:04:23.678 --> 00:04:24.028 Jennifer-Lee: Hello. 00:04:24.278 --> 00:04:24.628 Matt Abrahams: Hello. 00:04:25.198 --> 00:04:25.908 Neil McPhedran: Hello, Matt. 00:04:25.918 --> 00:04:26.268 Matt Abrahams: Hello. 00:04:27.058 --> 00:04:28.508 Neil McPhedran: Matt, are you ready to get started? 00:04:29.158 --> 00:04:29.868 Matt Abrahams: Let's get started. 00:04:29.928 --> 00:04:30.148 Yes. 00:04:30.478 --> 00:04:30.908 Neil McPhedran: Let's go. 00:04:30.908 --> 00:04:31.908 Matt Abrahams: That's an inside joke. 00:04:31.968 --> 00:04:32.188 Yes. 00:04:32.948 --> 00:04:35.148 Jennifer-Lee: I am not part of it, so I don't know what's going on. 00:04:36.638 --> 00:04:39.588 Neil McPhedran: Let's start with why did you launch Think Fast, Talk Smart? 00:04:40.423 --> 00:04:42.393 Matt Abrahams: Well first thank you all for being here. 00:04:42.663 --> 00:04:46.953 Some of us had quite the time to get here and I appreciate people being here. 00:04:47.013 --> 00:04:49.913 So Think Fast, Talk Smart started as an experiment. 00:04:50.233 --> 00:04:52.073 I lectured Stanford's Business School. 00:04:52.333 --> 00:04:56.553 I'd been there probably five or six years, and I had done a talk, and 00:04:56.553 --> 00:05:00.433 the whole story behind the talk is interesting in and of itself, that 00:05:00.433 --> 00:05:02.313 ended up doing pretty well on YouTube. 00:05:03.053 --> 00:05:06.473 As a result, the school marketing comms team at the GSB 00:05:07.053 --> 00:05:08.513 wanted to get into podcasting. 00:05:08.513 --> 00:05:10.273 They'd never really done podcasting. 00:05:10.273 --> 00:05:13.313 They'd taken classes and edited them and called them podcasts, 00:05:13.313 --> 00:05:14.193 but they really weren't. 00:05:14.533 --> 00:05:15.993 And they said, hey, we want to try it. 00:05:16.093 --> 00:05:18.313 And you know, when it comes to trying it, we know that there's 00:05:18.313 --> 00:05:21.233 an interest in communication because of how this talk had done. 00:05:22.358 --> 00:05:25.298 And I teach strategic communication. 00:05:25.518 --> 00:05:29.018 An area of focus is around how to manage anxiety and stress 00:05:29.038 --> 00:05:30.378 and communication situations. 00:05:30.378 --> 00:05:34.018 So they figured this guy probably won't get too nervous if we have him do it. 00:05:34.358 --> 00:05:35.778 And so they asked, do you want to try it? 00:05:35.918 --> 00:05:36.578 And I said, sure. 00:05:36.638 --> 00:05:40.258 And so it was really an experiment to try new ways of getting information 00:05:40.408 --> 00:05:42.338 from the school out to the world. 00:05:43.148 --> 00:05:46.168 Jennifer-Lee: And has your vision changed over the years of doing it, 00:05:46.268 --> 00:05:48.208 or is it kind of still the same thing? 00:05:48.358 --> 00:05:50.848 Matt Abrahams: Well, we learned a lot, and I assume all of you working on 00:05:50.848 --> 00:05:53.608 your podcast have learned a lot if you listen to what the listeners tell you. 00:05:53.628 --> 00:05:57.608 So we started thinking we were a business podcast and then the world 00:05:57.608 --> 00:05:59.368 told us we are a careers podcast. 00:05:59.708 --> 00:06:01.728 And while similar, they're slightly different. 00:06:01.948 --> 00:06:06.528 So our direction changed a little bit knowing that we really want to help people 00:06:06.558 --> 00:06:08.248 hone and develop their communication. 00:06:08.848 --> 00:06:12.608 We'd gotten a little tighter in the way we approach each episode 00:06:12.628 --> 00:06:13.968 in terms of length and things. 00:06:14.268 --> 00:06:17.328 But our, our experimental vision, I think is still there. 00:06:17.328 --> 00:06:18.688 We still try lots of new things. 00:06:18.748 --> 00:06:20.968 Our goal is to help people and to have fun as we do it. 00:06:20.988 --> 00:06:25.328 So we've stayed that course, but we've become much more professional for sure. 00:06:25.428 --> 00:06:30.393 We were total Motley crew when we started and it was all MacGyvered with duct 00:06:30.393 --> 00:06:33.953 tape and everything, and now we're a little more professional as we do it. 00:06:34.233 --> 00:06:35.473 Jennifer-Lee: I feel like that's how we all started. 00:06:35.853 --> 00:06:39.553 Neil McPhedran: So when you launched, what sort of support did you get from the GSB 00:06:39.613 --> 00:06:45.153 and how did you navigate getting attention at the GSB sort of in a sea of egos? 00:06:45.403 --> 00:06:46.553 Matt Abrahams: There are no egos. 00:06:46.553 --> 00:06:46.993 What do you mean? 00:06:46.993 --> 00:06:48.513 In academia, there are no egos. 00:06:48.893 --> 00:06:53.108 Uh, at first, I didn't know what I didn't know, so I thought we 00:06:53.108 --> 00:06:54.268 were getting wonderful support. 00:06:54.338 --> 00:06:56.148 They came to us and they said, hey, we have this team. 00:06:56.148 --> 00:06:56.788 We're gonna do this. 00:06:56.798 --> 00:06:57.268 Let's go. 00:06:57.648 --> 00:07:00.428 And then as we started growing, it became very apparent that 00:07:00.448 --> 00:07:01.708 we needed a lot more support. 00:07:01.968 --> 00:07:08.068 Now mind you, we released our very first episode in January of 2020, and six weeks 00:07:08.118 --> 00:07:09.988 later, literally the world shut down. 00:07:10.208 --> 00:07:12.348 And so that, we were actually canceled. 00:07:13.283 --> 00:07:16.463 So the business school said, you know, pandemic, we're shutting down. 00:07:16.643 --> 00:07:17.303 No more podcast. 00:07:17.723 --> 00:07:19.463 And we had done so much work. 00:07:19.483 --> 00:07:21.143 We had six episodes in the can. 00:07:21.483 --> 00:07:24.703 We released two on our first week and then we were gonna go 00:07:24.703 --> 00:07:26.343 week after, weekly after that. 00:07:27.003 --> 00:07:31.223 And because we were shut down, or they were shutting us down, and we were all 00:07:31.693 --> 00:07:35.863 home bound, I said, what if you let me keep it going and I'll manage it? 00:07:36.203 --> 00:07:37.423 And they said, okay, why not? 00:07:37.803 --> 00:07:41.863 And so my two high school boys and I produced the podcast for six months 00:07:42.658 --> 00:07:44.958 on my younger son's gaming computer. 00:07:45.458 --> 00:07:47.718 And he would get pissed off whenever I'd have to do an interview. 00:07:47.748 --> 00:07:49.678 He'd be like, you're taking away from my gaming time. 00:07:50.218 --> 00:07:54.358 And my, and my older son knew how to edit audio, so we had 00:07:54.358 --> 00:07:55.638 no support for six months. 00:07:55.898 --> 00:07:58.238 And you can hear it if you listen to those old episodes, for sure. 00:07:58.458 --> 00:08:02.678 If there was a silver lining in the pandemic, people wanted to know, how 00:08:02.678 --> 00:08:04.278 do we communicate in this new world? 00:08:04.978 --> 00:08:07.398 People had a lot of time to start listening because 00:08:07.398 --> 00:08:08.438 there was nothing else to do. 00:08:08.578 --> 00:08:12.418 So we actually saw a sharp increase in our listenership through the pandemic. 00:08:12.558 --> 00:08:16.178 And when we came back from it and we were still around, that's when 00:08:16.178 --> 00:08:18.928 I started to negotiate with some of the folks in marketing and 00:08:19.088 --> 00:08:20.488 communications, and they saw the impact. 00:08:21.028 --> 00:08:25.128 It is tricky to help people understand the value of podcasting. 00:08:25.168 --> 00:08:28.568 I think today people see it regardless of your political views. 00:08:28.728 --> 00:08:33.063 I think this most recent presidential campaign help people see the value 00:08:33.083 --> 00:08:36.583 of podcasts and the relationship that podcasters have with their listeners. 00:08:37.163 --> 00:08:42.263 So it was less difficult as podcasting became more prominent. 00:08:42.373 --> 00:08:44.663 What was more difficult is we needed more resources. 00:08:44.723 --> 00:08:48.343 As we grew it cost us more money to do the things we wanted to do. 00:08:49.553 --> 00:08:52.333 Jennifer-Lee: And obviously you're really good at getting people to work 00:08:52.353 --> 00:08:56.853 and using any of your resources around you, like your children, but maybe if 00:08:56.853 --> 00:09:00.733 we don't have children, how do we, you know, when we're first starting out, 00:09:01.533 --> 00:09:03.093 maximize people around us to help us? 00:09:03.093 --> 00:09:04.813 Because as you know, they take a lot of time. 00:09:04.833 --> 00:09:06.733 You said sometimes money. 00:09:07.093 --> 00:09:07.773 They're a lot of work. 00:09:07.843 --> 00:09:08.133 Matt Abrahams: Yeah. 00:09:08.453 --> 00:09:09.773 Podcasts certainly are a lot of work. 00:09:09.893 --> 00:09:11.533 I don't have to explain that to people here. 00:09:12.213 --> 00:09:17.073 So I leverage, uh, this summer I have six interns from, they are undergraduates, 00:09:17.073 --> 00:09:18.713 some from Stanford and some elsewhere. 00:09:18.773 --> 00:09:20.713 So anybody who's interested, we put to work. 00:09:21.473 --> 00:09:22.373 And that's a lot of fun. 00:09:22.473 --> 00:09:25.133 As a teacher, I just like working with people, learning from 00:09:25.133 --> 00:09:26.333 people, helping people learn. 00:09:26.673 --> 00:09:31.173 So we have always had volunteers, people who we pay, not a lot of money, 00:09:31.273 --> 00:09:32.733 who just want to get the experience. 00:09:33.113 --> 00:09:36.053 Any of you who are on faculty, writing letters of recommendation 00:09:36.073 --> 00:09:38.013 is a great incentive for students. 00:09:38.633 --> 00:09:41.573 And students like being able to put on their resume that they worked 00:09:41.633 --> 00:09:43.333 on a show that contributed value. 00:09:43.913 --> 00:09:45.533 And I think it helps differentiate them. 00:09:45.593 --> 00:09:47.373 So leveraging lots of resources. 00:09:47.483 --> 00:09:52.053 Finding ways to collaborate with others at the university, talking to the folks in 00:09:52.053 --> 00:09:54.653 marketing communications and their teams. 00:09:55.043 --> 00:09:58.053 They have a lot of people who are great at social media and other things, and 00:09:58.053 --> 00:09:59.293 they're always looking for content. 00:09:59.913 --> 00:10:02.733 One of the things that we spend a lot of time thinking about is how 00:10:02.733 --> 00:10:06.933 do we slice and dice our content and what can we do to make it one, to 00:10:06.933 --> 00:10:08.653 help us, but also to help others. 00:10:08.793 --> 00:10:11.413 So there are lots of ways to get people connected and involved. 00:10:12.053 --> 00:10:14.553 Neil McPhedran: So let's talk about some of that growth and global 00:10:14.553 --> 00:10:16.193 reach that Gregg shared with us. 00:10:16.453 --> 00:10:17.593 Was there a tipping point? 00:10:17.773 --> 00:10:20.913 Was there sort of a point where you, I mean, obviously you started in the 00:10:20.913 --> 00:10:24.713 first episode, had a few downloads and a few listens, and here we are today. 00:10:24.823 --> 00:10:26.033 What was that tipping point? 00:10:26.053 --> 00:10:27.433 Can you point to anything along the way? 00:10:27.813 --> 00:10:29.713 Matt Abrahams: You know, I've reflected on this for a long time. 00:10:29.933 --> 00:10:31.393 I'm not exactly sure. 00:10:31.833 --> 00:10:37.153 I know the pandemic helped, but we somehow, the appetite for 00:10:37.153 --> 00:10:40.078 the topic, I think is really, is one of the big reasons. 00:10:40.738 --> 00:10:44.158 We are very short bite size, 20 minute episodes. 00:10:44.248 --> 00:10:47.118 Every episode the goal is that somebody can finish listening 00:10:47.118 --> 00:10:48.558 and apply something right away. 00:10:48.958 --> 00:10:51.398 I think it is the applied nature of it that really helped. 00:10:51.898 --> 00:10:54.398 But I really can't say this happened on this date and 00:10:54.398 --> 00:10:55.758 that's where we really exploded. 00:10:55.918 --> 00:10:59.518 I just think it's, we always encourage people to share and to 00:10:59.538 --> 00:11:02.958 let others know about the show, but it's really hard to tell. 00:11:03.693 --> 00:11:07.633 And as Neil knows, Neil helps me produce the show, every time I think a show's 00:11:07.633 --> 00:11:09.713 gonna be really bad, it does really well. 00:11:10.053 --> 00:11:13.313 And so I'm not really good at understanding that kind of thing. 00:11:13.413 --> 00:11:15.153 So we just are riding the wave. 00:11:15.533 --> 00:11:18.433 Jennifer-Lee: And because you've had such huge growth, and congratulations on 00:11:18.433 --> 00:11:20.598 that and the number one careers podcast. 00:11:20.738 --> 00:11:21.398 That's amazing. 00:11:21.538 --> 00:11:22.878 You're now moving the show. 00:11:22.878 --> 00:11:24.158 You've just recently done this. 00:11:24.158 --> 00:11:26.358 You're now independent from GSB. 00:11:26.508 --> 00:11:28.358 What was your decision around that? 00:11:28.498 --> 00:11:29.278 Why did you do that? 00:11:29.578 --> 00:11:33.678 Matt Abrahams: So we, in September, it will be a year as an independent podcast. 00:11:33.858 --> 00:11:37.038 If you would've asked me at my age, would I be a social media entrepreneur, 00:11:37.118 --> 00:11:38.198 I would've said, you're crazy. 00:11:38.458 --> 00:11:39.798 But apparently I am now. 00:11:40.098 --> 00:11:42.358 The problem was this, all of us who work in academic 00:11:42.358 --> 00:11:44.158 institutions, things move slowly. 00:11:44.888 --> 00:11:46.948 And we, podcasting does not. 00:11:47.168 --> 00:11:50.428 And so we were constantly running up against issues. 00:11:50.688 --> 00:11:53.068 It was, I call it a conscious uncoupling. 00:11:53.208 --> 00:11:54.748 The business school was very kind. 00:11:54.848 --> 00:11:56.348 We negotiated a separation. 00:11:56.608 --> 00:11:59.548 We are working very carefully and closely, hand in hand. 00:11:59.578 --> 00:12:00.828 They are just not paying the bills. 00:12:01.048 --> 00:12:02.348 We are now paying the bills. 00:12:02.798 --> 00:12:05.348 We're still supporting them, and they still support us. 00:12:05.368 --> 00:12:06.988 So it's actually the best of both worlds. 00:12:07.708 --> 00:12:10.568 We can move with the speed with which we need to move, we can 00:12:10.568 --> 00:12:11.968 make decisions more quickly. 00:12:12.318 --> 00:12:17.408 They still get the benefit of us helping bring eyeballs and ears to content. 00:12:17.788 --> 00:12:19.968 So I think everybody's very happy with how it's come out. 00:12:20.523 --> 00:12:21.103 Jennifer-Lee: That's great. 00:12:21.133 --> 00:12:24.263 Something else that you've started adding, which I know there's a lot 00:12:24.263 --> 00:12:27.583 of conversations at every conference about this, video to podcast. 00:12:28.443 --> 00:12:29.423 Now you're doing video. 00:12:29.873 --> 00:12:30.663 Again, why? 00:12:30.663 --> 00:12:32.903 Because that's more work, more resources. 00:12:33.053 --> 00:12:33.343 Matt Abrahams: Yeah. 00:12:33.343 --> 00:12:36.743 Video is expensive, and for me, what's important is high quality video. 00:12:37.013 --> 00:12:38.783 It's where podcasting is going. 00:12:39.013 --> 00:12:41.383 YouTube is the biggest discovery engine. 00:12:41.823 --> 00:12:46.088 I believe YouTube will very much lead where podcasting is going. 00:12:46.088 --> 00:12:50.848 Spotify and others are certainly involved in it, and so we're moving towards it. 00:12:50.878 --> 00:12:51.848 It's harder to edit. 00:12:52.148 --> 00:12:55.808 You have to think differently as a host and how you interact with 00:12:55.808 --> 00:12:57.008 people when people can see it. 00:12:57.308 --> 00:12:58.248 But I actually like it. 00:12:58.318 --> 00:12:58.848 It's fun. 00:12:58.868 --> 00:13:02.848 We get to do some more creative things and it certainly allows us to do more on 00:13:02.848 --> 00:13:05.628 social, which has been very helpful to us. 00:13:06.008 --> 00:13:07.228 So we're slowly there. 00:13:07.288 --> 00:13:08.948 Not every episode we do is video. 00:13:09.088 --> 00:13:12.228 We are getting more and more to that point, and we've made some recent 00:13:12.588 --> 00:13:14.028 decisions to really lean into it. 00:13:14.048 --> 00:13:18.188 The biggest challenge is cost and venue and figuring out how to do that. 00:13:18.288 --> 00:13:20.308 Neil McPhedran: So what's your strategy then for video? 00:13:21.008 --> 00:13:24.668 Produce full episodes, and then are you producing shorts and clips? 00:13:25.233 --> 00:13:25.453 Matt Abrahams: Yes. 00:13:25.553 --> 00:13:28.863 So we record in video, we use Squadcast. 00:13:28.883 --> 00:13:31.253 Some of you use Riverside, use Zoom, whatever. 00:13:31.513 --> 00:13:35.533 If I can, if the guest is local or I'm proximal to them, we'll actually 00:13:35.533 --> 00:13:36.813 go into a real studio and do it. 00:13:36.913 --> 00:13:39.573 We record it on video, edit it in Descript. 00:13:39.593 --> 00:13:41.533 We create an audio version of the podcast. 00:13:41.723 --> 00:13:45.373 That audio version then serves as the guide for editing the video version. 00:13:45.833 --> 00:13:49.933 And then we clip and cut, and we're trying to get very creative with that 00:13:49.933 --> 00:13:53.393 and the folks who do that work for us are in the room, so they can give 00:13:53.393 --> 00:13:54.753 you more input on how they do it. 00:13:55.213 --> 00:13:56.753 But it just takes more time now. 00:13:56.753 --> 00:13:59.273 We have to post across all the different platforms and then when 00:13:59.273 --> 00:14:02.073 you post, you have to respond to people who respond to your posts. 00:14:02.213 --> 00:14:05.193 So there's this whole machinery that you have to build to make it work. 00:14:05.213 --> 00:14:08.073 But it's been fun and I love engaging with our listeners. 00:14:08.143 --> 00:14:11.713 There's nothing more satisfying to me than when a listener will write and say 00:14:11.733 --> 00:14:13.673 how the podcast has impacted their lives. 00:14:13.953 --> 00:14:14.913 'Cause that's really why we do it. 00:14:15.013 --> 00:14:18.543 For four and a half years, we were non-profit and we're not making any money. 00:14:18.603 --> 00:14:20.463 We're barely covering our costs now. 00:14:20.523 --> 00:14:21.583 So we do it to help people. 00:14:21.803 --> 00:14:24.823 And so video is another way of reaching out to these folks. 00:14:25.083 --> 00:14:28.503 Jennifer-Lee: And whether it's recording in a studio or recording virtually, 00:14:28.653 --> 00:14:33.013 obviously there's a lot of challenges to video to make it look professional 00:14:33.033 --> 00:14:35.653 and polished, and you always wanna make sure you have good sound regardless. 00:14:36.073 --> 00:14:39.933 So for people thinking in this room, hey, I don't have video yet to my 00:14:39.933 --> 00:14:41.533 podcast, but I should probably do it. 00:14:41.533 --> 00:14:43.853 What do you think the advantages are of it and why? 00:14:44.123 --> 00:14:46.653 Matt Abrahams: Well, certainly a disadvantage is people get to see 00:14:46.653 --> 00:14:49.333 this, and I can't tell you the number of people say, oh, you don't look 00:14:49.733 --> 00:14:51.713 the way I thought you did, or would. 00:14:52.093 --> 00:14:54.073 So there are many advantages. 00:14:54.293 --> 00:14:56.633 One I think is people are more engaged by it. 00:14:56.773 --> 00:14:59.873 We live in a world where attention is our most precious commodity, 00:15:00.053 --> 00:15:01.833 and video draws more attention. 00:15:02.213 --> 00:15:03.433 And so I think that's one. 00:15:03.653 --> 00:15:05.993 Two, you can do some really interesting things with video. 00:15:06.093 --> 00:15:11.473 You can cut in other video, you can put in animations in 00:15:11.473 --> 00:15:12.873 ways that you can't with audio. 00:15:13.293 --> 00:15:16.433 And what's important to me is the educational aspect of what we do. 00:15:16.433 --> 00:15:18.713 There are just more tools in the toolkit when you have video. 00:15:19.328 --> 00:15:22.828 So it, it opens it up to help us achieve our goal more. 00:15:23.168 --> 00:15:29.468 And I mean, bottom line is it's where all of the providers want you to be. 00:15:29.648 --> 00:15:30.868 So you're gonna get more love. 00:15:31.148 --> 00:15:35.268 I can tell you very specifically that we have been told by some platforms that 00:15:35.448 --> 00:15:38.988 if you're aren't on video, if you're audio only, you're not gonna get the 00:15:38.988 --> 00:15:41.508 love that will help you expand and reach. 00:15:41.608 --> 00:15:45.188 So it is in their best interest to push video and therefore 00:15:45.198 --> 00:15:46.348 we're playing that game. 00:15:47.003 --> 00:15:48.863 Neil McPhedran: So let's talk about what's next. 00:15:49.373 --> 00:15:51.623 What are you and the team focused on? 00:15:51.693 --> 00:15:54.983 What new channels, innovations, what's on the horizon? 00:15:55.443 --> 00:15:59.583 Matt Abrahams: So I've been reflecting a lot about AI and its impact on 00:15:59.583 --> 00:16:01.543 everything, but podcasting in particular. 00:16:01.803 --> 00:16:05.423 And I am convinced, and I would love to have a discussion and debate 00:16:05.493 --> 00:16:08.623 with any of you, 'cause I'm really trying to formulate these opinions. 00:16:09.703 --> 00:16:13.263 I think the role of podcasting and providing content is 00:16:13.303 --> 00:16:14.503 a ice cube that's melting. 00:16:15.353 --> 00:16:20.033 I think that creating content is now commoditized. 00:16:20.933 --> 00:16:27.673 The value I believe we bring is in curation and in community. 00:16:28.213 --> 00:16:33.433 And where we are taking our podcast is more, we're still gonna release, we're 00:16:33.433 --> 00:16:36.913 gonna do everything we've been doing, but I really wanna focus on curating 00:16:36.913 --> 00:16:42.033 content, helping the listeners who've chosen to listen to us find the content 00:16:42.173 --> 00:16:43.753 that's important and relevant to them. 00:16:44.438 --> 00:16:46.978 And then build a community where like-minded people can 00:16:46.978 --> 00:16:48.178 come together and interact. 00:16:48.698 --> 00:16:52.898 I really think just putting out content is, we're on a cliff. 00:16:53.573 --> 00:16:56.013 I think there's so many places and so many other ways that 00:16:56.013 --> 00:16:57.413 people can get content now. 00:16:57.603 --> 00:17:01.853 What we have to bring is the creativity and the curation and the 00:17:01.853 --> 00:17:04.733 community that breeds connection to really make the difference. 00:17:04.733 --> 00:17:06.333 So we are really focusing on that. 00:17:06.543 --> 00:17:09.413 We're building out a community hub where people will be able to access it. 00:17:09.473 --> 00:17:11.133 And when I say community, I wanna be very clear. 00:17:11.233 --> 00:17:14.013 I'm not talking about a premium offering where you get to listen to more content 00:17:14.013 --> 00:17:15.533 without ads or anything like that. 00:17:15.593 --> 00:17:16.253 That's important. 00:17:16.393 --> 00:17:17.133 And we have one of those. 00:17:17.663 --> 00:17:20.443 But I'm talking about a place where people can come together and interact. 00:17:20.443 --> 00:17:21.403 I'll give you a few ideas. 00:17:21.623 --> 00:17:23.603 We have a lot of guests on who have books. 00:17:23.933 --> 00:17:27.003 We're gonna start hosting book clubs in our community. 00:17:27.383 --> 00:17:30.443 We have people who are very interested in very specific skills 00:17:30.513 --> 00:17:31.803 that we cover in our podcast. 00:17:32.013 --> 00:17:34.923 We're gonna have threads and channels where people can meet with others, 00:17:35.073 --> 00:17:36.723 some will mediate, some we won't. 00:17:36.903 --> 00:17:37.803 We might offer courses. 00:17:38.103 --> 00:17:41.723 The whole idea is to bring people together where they can interact. 00:17:41.903 --> 00:17:46.043 That's what makes what I think all of us do special, and it builds a 00:17:46.073 --> 00:17:51.463 moat around the ubiquity of content creation that AI has now allowed for. 00:17:51.563 --> 00:17:55.063 So that's where we're headed, and I'm excited about it because I 00:17:55.063 --> 00:17:58.063 think we can really help people in a deeper, more connected way. 00:17:58.163 --> 00:18:00.583 Jennifer-Lee: And that authentic communication connection is something 00:18:00.583 --> 00:18:02.743 that I don't think anyone can replace. 00:18:02.933 --> 00:18:05.883 But that being said, you did touch upon AI. 00:18:06.023 --> 00:18:09.523 Are there other things as higher ed podcasters that we should be 00:18:09.523 --> 00:18:12.603 thinking about in the next two years or trying or experimenting with? 00:18:12.883 --> 00:18:14.683 Matt Abrahams: I would love to hear from all of you, 'cause I'm still 00:18:14.683 --> 00:18:15.883 trying to figure this thing out. 00:18:16.063 --> 00:18:18.123 We certainly leverage AI in the work we do. 00:18:18.343 --> 00:18:20.783 It helps me create the questions I ask. 00:18:20.783 --> 00:18:22.463 It helps me find guests. 00:18:22.753 --> 00:18:26.878 I know for sure it helps us create some of our social posts we create 00:18:27.188 --> 00:18:31.878 with Canva and AI, we put together things that our audience is digesting 00:18:31.878 --> 00:18:34.598 and liking much better than what we used to do because of AI. 00:18:34.918 --> 00:18:37.638 I would love to hear from all of you how you see using AI. 00:18:37.688 --> 00:18:40.208 We're still playing with it and trying to figure it out. 00:18:40.403 --> 00:18:44.443 I know that because we have so much content out there that we've been 00:18:44.443 --> 00:18:46.483 able to create our own chat bot. 00:18:46.503 --> 00:18:49.763 So we're gonna release a chat bot soon where we've ingested all of 00:18:49.763 --> 00:18:53.043 our episodes, talks and writings from my guests and that I've done. 00:18:53.143 --> 00:18:56.603 And you can actually go now and query the podcast in essence. 00:18:56.623 --> 00:18:59.483 So if you're somebody who has a job interview coming up, 00:18:59.503 --> 00:19:00.723 you can go to our chat bot. 00:19:00.723 --> 00:19:02.143 We're calling it Chat Matt. 00:19:02.163 --> 00:19:04.483 I wanted Matt GPT, but I couldn't get the URL. 00:19:04.743 --> 00:19:08.798 You can go type it in and you'll get a response from the collective 00:19:09.638 --> 00:19:14.518 learnings of the podcast, and it'll also spit out the episodes that it 00:19:14.518 --> 00:19:15.918 drew from to give you that answer. 00:19:15.938 --> 00:19:17.878 So it's a way of driving more listens as well. 00:19:18.058 --> 00:19:19.478 I'd love to hear how others are using it. 00:19:19.548 --> 00:19:20.838 Neil McPhedran: What about other languages? 00:19:21.178 --> 00:19:22.558 Are you exploring that? 00:19:22.868 --> 00:19:23.398 Matt Abrahams: It's so funny. 00:19:23.428 --> 00:19:25.848 He's asking questions he knows the answers to. 00:19:25.938 --> 00:19:29.183 Uh, yes, so we have quite a global reach. 00:19:29.203 --> 00:19:32.743 We have many more people who listen to us outside the US than inside the US. 00:19:33.123 --> 00:19:36.463 And we are exploring translating the podcast. 00:19:36.993 --> 00:19:39.543 First audio, and then we might explore doing video. 00:19:39.833 --> 00:19:41.903 We're looking to do Hindi and Spanish first. 00:19:42.658 --> 00:19:46.268 Primarily because we know we have large audiences in those regions, 00:19:46.608 --> 00:19:50.388 and the tools that we're looking to use are better in those languages 00:19:50.388 --> 00:19:53.268 than some of the other languages where we do well internationally. 00:19:53.498 --> 00:19:54.148 It's exciting. 00:19:54.328 --> 00:19:56.028 We have worries about translation. 00:19:56.088 --> 00:19:59.788 We don't want to cannibalize our English language channel, so we're trying 00:19:59.788 --> 00:20:01.228 to be creative on how we do this. 00:20:01.798 --> 00:20:04.678 But we think we can help more people if we translate. 00:20:04.698 --> 00:20:07.358 And of course, for what we do, our topic is communication. 00:20:07.618 --> 00:20:10.518 We have to be very sensitive to the cultural differences and norms. 00:20:10.658 --> 00:20:14.838 We don't want to imply that the way we do it here in the US is the right 00:20:14.838 --> 00:20:15.998 way to do it in other cultures. 00:20:15.998 --> 00:20:17.158 So there are a lot of issues at play. 00:20:17.338 --> 00:20:18.038 I'm really excited. 00:20:18.068 --> 00:20:21.718 It's really freaky if you've not done this to hear your voice 00:20:22.038 --> 00:20:23.038 speaking a different language. 00:20:23.218 --> 00:20:24.878 So they'll actually take your voice and do it. 00:20:24.918 --> 00:20:27.328 I heard myself speak German, French and Spanish. 00:20:27.478 --> 00:20:28.368 They sent me the file. 00:20:28.478 --> 00:20:29.128 Just bizarre. 00:20:29.228 --> 00:20:30.248 Jennifer-Lee: So no one's dubbing you. 00:20:30.478 --> 00:20:31.048 It's all you. 00:20:31.278 --> 00:20:33.088 Matt Abrahams: Well, it's my voice that they've programmed to do it. 00:20:33.088 --> 00:20:33.528 Jennifer-Lee: Awesome. 00:20:33.528 --> 00:20:36.248 Well, speaking of communication, we're kind of having a meta moment 00:20:36.458 --> 00:20:40.208 right now because we're interviewing an amazing interviewer and I've been 00:20:40.208 --> 00:20:41.168 wanting to interview for a long time. 00:20:41.168 --> 00:20:42.968 Neil knows this, so I'm very excited about this. 00:20:43.068 --> 00:20:45.528 But what do you think makes a great interview? 00:20:45.678 --> 00:20:46.288 Matt Abrahams: Curiosity. 00:20:46.888 --> 00:20:51.458 Curiosity and listening deeply, and combining those two. 00:20:51.798 --> 00:20:55.218 If there's anything that I have really worked on to help, I really work on 00:20:55.218 --> 00:21:00.338 paraphrasing and trying to take what the person has said, digest it, and then 00:21:00.788 --> 00:21:05.618 share it in a way that helps, I hope, drive home for people the key point. 00:21:05.678 --> 00:21:06.738 And then connecting. 00:21:06.758 --> 00:21:09.218 So I think it's, it's about listening, being curious and 00:21:09.218 --> 00:21:13.268 paraphrasing, and that's what I really try to do as I interview folks. 00:21:13.563 --> 00:21:14.463 And editing helps. 00:21:14.593 --> 00:21:15.263 Let's face it. 00:21:15.643 --> 00:21:18.143 You know, people say, Matt, you're so fluent in everything. 00:21:18.143 --> 00:21:20.863 And I'm like, yeah, there's a lot of editing that's going on behind the scenes. 00:21:21.323 --> 00:21:25.983 Neil McPhedran: Any rituals, little techniques that you can share with the 00:21:26.183 --> 00:21:27.463 audience here when they're interviewing? 00:21:28.218 --> 00:21:29.508 Matt Abrahams: What are you trying to get at there? 00:21:29.888 --> 00:21:30.548 Jennifer-Lee: The secrets. 00:21:31.288 --> 00:21:32.788 Matt Abrahams: So I do a few things. 00:21:33.008 --> 00:21:36.748 One, everybody who helps me who's in this room knows I'm perpetually 00:21:36.778 --> 00:21:40.788 late, so they are often sitting on the call with a guest before I show up. 00:21:41.248 --> 00:21:45.908 One of the reasons I'm late is I always warm up before I do an interview. 00:21:46.048 --> 00:21:49.028 For me, doing interviews are very exciting, but they're draining because 00:21:49.168 --> 00:21:51.028 I'm super focused on what's going on. 00:21:51.368 --> 00:21:52.188 So I warm up. 00:21:52.348 --> 00:21:56.388 I, I say a tongue twister multiple times just to get my mouth and voice going. 00:21:57.108 --> 00:21:59.728 And I really take some deep breaths and do some things to really help. 00:21:59.828 --> 00:22:01.648 So there is a ritual that I go through. 00:22:01.848 --> 00:22:06.008 I, I'm superstitious and ritual bound, so I make sure to do those things. 00:22:06.668 --> 00:22:08.848 And I always challenge myself. 00:22:08.868 --> 00:22:11.208 We always record the tease at the beginning. 00:22:11.983 --> 00:22:15.043 The way our show starts is I start hopefully with something provocative, 00:22:15.043 --> 00:22:18.083 and then I introduce the guest, and I, I always challenge myself. 00:22:18.463 --> 00:22:19.283 To me, it's a game. 00:22:19.343 --> 00:22:20.763 What's the tease going to be? 00:22:20.823 --> 00:22:24.083 So in the interview, I'm constantly thinking, what's this 00:22:24.263 --> 00:22:26.843 one thing that will get people excited to listen to the episode? 00:22:26.903 --> 00:22:29.683 So that's part of my ritual as well, is I'm always playing this game. 00:22:30.153 --> 00:22:31.523 What is it that I'm gonna tease? 00:22:32.148 --> 00:22:34.848 And so those are the kind of things that help me keep focused. 00:22:35.198 --> 00:22:35.608 Jennifer-Lee: Love it. 00:22:35.608 --> 00:22:37.888 We're getting trade secrets right here, right now. 00:22:38.428 --> 00:22:41.768 So I've interviewed a lot of people and sometimes this happens, not 00:22:41.768 --> 00:22:44.008 in this interview, but sometimes you have an interview that 00:22:44.008 --> 00:22:46.248 goes sideways or lacks energy. 00:22:46.468 --> 00:22:51.128 So how do you as the interviewer, kind of take control and make it a better one? 00:22:51.508 --> 00:22:53.968 Matt Abrahams: No offense to anybody in the room, but academics 00:22:53.968 --> 00:22:58.688 can be dry sometimes, and so trying to make it more exciting. 00:22:59.028 --> 00:23:04.228 My trick is I really try to, uh, get people to think about how what they're 00:23:04.228 --> 00:23:06.068 talking about has direct application. 00:23:06.088 --> 00:23:06.908 So what does this mean? 00:23:06.968 --> 00:23:08.188 How has this played out in your life? 00:23:08.188 --> 00:23:11.788 Getting people to tell stories, uh, and inviting them to 00:23:11.788 --> 00:23:13.468 tell stories I work on a lot. 00:23:13.858 --> 00:23:17.478 All my interviews, people know the questions in advance to help them be 00:23:17.478 --> 00:23:20.598 focused, and then I tell them these are just starting points, so they 00:23:20.628 --> 00:23:22.598 come prepared, which helps as well. 00:23:23.108 --> 00:23:26.128 But there are times where I'm in the midst of somebody's answering for way too 00:23:26.128 --> 00:23:29.088 long, and I'm just thinking, we're gonna cut this part, we're gonna cut that part. 00:23:29.188 --> 00:23:33.248 And I actually, well, the next question, knowing that I will have eliminated the 00:23:33.408 --> 00:23:37.848 previous answer, can to the person feel very abrupt, because I know we're just 00:23:37.848 --> 00:23:38.968 gonna get rid of everything they've said. 00:23:39.428 --> 00:23:40.648 So it can be hard. 00:23:41.448 --> 00:23:45.948 Neil McPhedran: So speaking of preparing your interviews, you end all your 00:23:45.948 --> 00:23:48.548 episodes with three of the same questions. 00:23:48.768 --> 00:23:53.148 So we have tweaked your three questions to be focused on podcasting instead instead 00:23:53.588 --> 00:23:54.828 communication, 'cause that's what you do. 00:23:54.928 --> 00:23:57.308 Matt Abrahams: Before you ask the questions, Neil, we determined early 00:23:57.328 --> 00:24:00.668 on because we were running on a shoestring, that we would want to 00:24:00.988 --> 00:24:02.868 reuse our content as much as possible. 00:24:03.598 --> 00:24:06.818 And so we built in, and this is just a best practice that 00:24:06.818 --> 00:24:08.258 we have really benefited from. 00:24:08.318 --> 00:24:11.058 So those of you starting things, I might encourage you to think about this. 00:24:11.438 --> 00:24:15.138 We built in that we ask similar questions at the end of every episode, and we 00:24:15.138 --> 00:24:17.938 have gotten a tremendous amount of leverage out of that because we can 00:24:17.938 --> 00:24:23.303 then slice and dice our episodes and reuse content from different places. 00:24:23.843 --> 00:24:25.183 So there are lots of things. 00:24:25.403 --> 00:24:29.023 You create a lot of content and we, I think, have done a pretty 00:24:29.023 --> 00:24:32.103 good job of thinking about how can we reuse that content in different 00:24:32.103 --> 00:24:33.743 ways, creating infographics. 00:24:33.963 --> 00:24:36.583 Now we're really working on playlists that are thematic. 00:24:36.583 --> 00:24:39.183 Once you have enough episodes, you can start doing things like that. 00:24:39.323 --> 00:24:43.583 So I encourage everybody to think about this content you have as a 00:24:43.583 --> 00:24:46.928 warehouse of content that you can then combine in lots of different ways. 00:24:47.068 --> 00:24:51.888 So it's not an accident that we have, you know, 215 episodes with people 00:24:51.888 --> 00:24:53.448 answering the same three questions. 00:24:53.448 --> 00:24:54.608 That was very purposeful. 00:24:55.108 --> 00:24:58.608 And in a world where content is so important, creating ways to mix and match 00:24:58.728 --> 00:25:00.168 I think has been really helpful for us. 00:25:00.468 --> 00:25:02.328 Neil McPhedran: So you kind of just answered the first question. 00:25:02.468 --> 00:25:02.848 Matt Abrahams: Oh, okay. 00:25:02.848 --> 00:25:03.288 Well, very good. 00:25:04.593 --> 00:25:07.343 Neil McPhedran: But, the, the key part to the question though is if you 00:25:07.343 --> 00:25:10.783 were to capture the best podcasting advice you've ever received in a 00:25:10.783 --> 00:25:12.623 single sentence, what would it be? 00:25:13.133 --> 00:25:14.343 Matt Abrahams: It's all about your audience. 00:25:14.843 --> 00:25:17.983 You are simply a, a mouthpiece and ears for your audience. 00:25:18.123 --> 00:25:22.063 So everything I do, I'm always thinking about how will this help the audience? 00:25:22.253 --> 00:25:24.043 What would the audience want to know? 00:25:24.393 --> 00:25:27.598 I often wanna know a lot of things, some of which is similar to what 00:25:27.598 --> 00:25:30.798 my audience wants, but I really try to focus on how the audience will 00:25:30.798 --> 00:25:33.878 get value, and I'm always thinking of myself from their perspective. 00:25:34.298 --> 00:25:36.438 One of the things we did, when was that? 00:25:36.438 --> 00:25:37.518 About two, two and a half years ago. 00:25:37.518 --> 00:25:38.478 Neil McPhedran: This is more than one sentence. 00:25:38.718 --> 00:25:38.998 Matt Abrahams: I know. 00:25:39.358 --> 00:25:39.518 Okay. 00:25:39.538 --> 00:25:39.958 Period. 00:25:41.338 --> 00:25:44.588 I'm an academic who teaches communication, this is what I do. 00:25:44.668 --> 00:25:46.068 I talk, people pay me to talk. 00:25:46.068 --> 00:25:46.468 It's amazing. 00:25:47.133 --> 00:25:48.833 We did a thorough audience analysis. 00:25:48.933 --> 00:25:51.113 We actually had a company interview our audience. 00:25:51.113 --> 00:25:53.793 We surveyed our audience and we have a much better idea of who 00:25:53.793 --> 00:25:55.993 they are and what's important to them as a result of that. 00:25:56.293 --> 00:25:59.113 And that really helped with know your audience, which 00:25:59.113 --> 00:26:00.313 was the one sentence answer. 00:26:00.978 --> 00:26:03.463 Jennifer-Lee: Well, now I'm gonna channel my best Matt Abrahams 00:26:03.463 --> 00:26:08.863 and ask you who is a podcaster or interviewer that you admire and why? 00:26:09.623 --> 00:26:10.743 Matt Abrahams: I really like Terry Gross. 00:26:11.023 --> 00:26:13.303 I think Terry Gross is an amazing interviewer. 00:26:13.503 --> 00:26:17.503 I like how it's very conversational, how she's vulnerable, how she 00:26:17.533 --> 00:26:21.223 expresses emotion and gets others to express emotion. 00:26:21.843 --> 00:26:24.503 Her interviews are very different than the type of interviews I do. 00:26:24.503 --> 00:26:27.743 Mine are just sort of very matter of fact, but I really respect Terry Gross. 00:26:28.093 --> 00:26:28.623 Jennifer-Lee: Good answer. 00:26:29.703 --> 00:26:30.843 Neil McPhedran: Question number three. 00:26:31.793 --> 00:26:36.753 What are the three ingredients that go into a successful podcasting recipe? 00:26:37.823 --> 00:26:38.063 Matt Abrahams: Teamwork. 00:26:38.673 --> 00:26:41.303 Podcasting is, at least in the way we do it as a team. 00:26:41.723 --> 00:26:44.703 And I have assembled, I work with an amazing team. 00:26:44.703 --> 00:26:45.783 Thank you, Neil, and others. 00:26:46.203 --> 00:26:48.543 So, teamwork, passion, and curiosity. 00:26:48.683 --> 00:26:49.863 I'm gonna put those two together. 00:26:50.623 --> 00:26:54.143 I am infinitely curious and very passionate about what we do. 00:26:54.923 --> 00:26:59.703 And while I am really poor at this, I have always tried to surround 00:26:59.703 --> 00:27:03.308 myself and I certainly have done this with the team we work with, detail 00:27:03.788 --> 00:27:05.348 oriented, being very detail oriented. 00:27:05.508 --> 00:27:10.028 I am very bad at that, but you need to be detail oriented to make this work. 00:27:10.208 --> 00:27:14.548 So those would be the three ingredients for sure that help, from my perspective. 00:27:15.208 --> 00:27:16.588 Jennifer-Lee: Was that answer short enough for you? 00:27:17.528 --> 00:27:17.748 Neil McPhedran: Yep. 00:27:18.178 --> 00:27:19.348 Jennifer-Lee: Well, thank you so much, Matt. 00:27:19.348 --> 00:27:23.268 We're gonna actually open up the questions to you, the audience, 00:27:23.268 --> 00:27:26.388 because I know that you probably have some burning questions for Matt. 00:27:26.448 --> 00:27:27.228 So let's get started. 00:27:28.123 --> 00:27:31.183 Audience Member 1: Can you speak a little bit more about the specifics of how you 00:27:31.333 --> 00:27:37.663 were gonna create the bank of answers that you have queried the AI database? 00:27:37.783 --> 00:27:38.003 Matt Abrahams: So. 00:27:38.403 --> 00:27:40.803 I can only share the level that I understand this at. 00:27:40.943 --> 00:27:45.363 So one of the advantages of teaching where I teach is we have amazing students. 00:27:46.143 --> 00:27:49.763 In a class, some, I don't even remember how this came up. 00:27:49.783 --> 00:27:54.403 We were talking about AI and I said, it would be so great if I could somehow 00:27:55.333 --> 00:27:59.343 take all the information we have in my podcast and share it through AI, and I 00:27:59.343 --> 00:28:02.303 had a student come up afterwards and said, oh, I can have that for you by tomorrow. 00:28:03.723 --> 00:28:04.623 And I kid you not. 00:28:04.643 --> 00:28:05.063 He did. 00:28:05.563 --> 00:28:09.943 He has written a program, I don't know the specifics of it, that allow us to simply 00:28:10.043 --> 00:28:16.938 put in the URL of our episode and it will within 20 minutes add it to this data bank 00:28:17.088 --> 00:28:19.378 that he has and you can query against it. 00:28:19.998 --> 00:28:21.498 I'm not sure what he coded it in. 00:28:21.598 --> 00:28:22.458 I'm not sure what he did. 00:28:22.468 --> 00:28:25.898 We're in the process of, it's going to be beta launched to our 00:28:25.898 --> 00:28:29.978 premium members in the next couple weeks to get their feedback. 00:28:30.198 --> 00:28:32.258 As with all AI, it can do some silly things. 00:28:32.348 --> 00:28:34.848 We're trying to, to learn all those silly things. 00:28:35.198 --> 00:28:37.988 There are companies that will do this for you, they cost a lot of money. 00:28:38.218 --> 00:28:40.988 Like I said, students, for those of you who work with 00:28:41.188 --> 00:28:42.468 students, they're very eager. 00:28:42.888 --> 00:28:45.988 And we have two students who are studying data science. 00:28:46.538 --> 00:28:48.348 They came to me and said, we'd love to be interns. 00:28:48.468 --> 00:28:50.508 I said, well, we've got some data science-y projects. 00:28:50.508 --> 00:28:54.668 They got really excited because they do problem sets that are, you know, 00:28:54.698 --> 00:28:56.308 data sets that they don't care about. 00:28:56.848 --> 00:28:57.908 And they're like, wow. 00:28:58.268 --> 00:29:00.228 I mean, these are people on the other end of this. 00:29:00.248 --> 00:29:03.963 So we have this one woman working for us that, she's 00:29:03.963 --> 00:29:05.123 doing things we never imagined. 00:29:05.283 --> 00:29:08.803 I mean, we're getting data on what titles of our podcasts 00:29:08.903 --> 00:29:10.323 do better than other titles. 00:29:10.433 --> 00:29:14.363 What time of the month that we released episodes, do they do better versus worse? 00:29:14.943 --> 00:29:15.963 All that data exists. 00:29:16.023 --> 00:29:17.243 We just didn't know what to do with it. 00:29:17.343 --> 00:29:18.923 And you know, our students are helping. 00:29:19.103 --> 00:29:21.803 So leverage students and see if they can help. 00:29:21.903 --> 00:29:25.923 And if you really want more information about the AI, I can dig into it, but 00:29:25.923 --> 00:29:27.123 I honestly don't know what he did. 00:29:27.763 --> 00:29:32.408 Neil McPhedran: A key part of that though is the transcripts and all 00:29:32.408 --> 00:29:34.228 of the show notes and the metadata. 00:29:34.228 --> 00:29:39.288 So we spend a lot of time developing chapters and really good show notes 00:29:39.548 --> 00:29:41.848 and very accurate transcripts. 00:29:42.028 --> 00:29:44.488 So that's really important 'cause that feeds into the AI. 00:29:44.488 --> 00:29:50.393 And when Matt says it goes to the webpage, each episode has its own webpage with the 00:29:50.393 --> 00:29:52.353 transcript and all of that data on there. 00:29:52.353 --> 00:29:55.313 So that's really, really rich data then that funnels into 00:29:55.313 --> 00:29:56.753 that AI so they can pull it out. 00:29:56.813 --> 00:29:59.593 So first and foremost, you gotta give it the data, and that's where 00:29:59.593 --> 00:30:02.433 we spend a lot of time making sure it's accurate and it's all there. 00:30:02.893 --> 00:30:05.313 Matt Abrahams: You see what I mean about detail oriented, surround yourself 00:30:05.313 --> 00:30:06.273 with the people who know the details. 00:30:07.213 --> 00:30:10.513 Audience Member 2: Now, you mentioned that you are working on creating curated 00:30:10.513 --> 00:30:12.153 content through custom playlists. 00:30:12.153 --> 00:30:14.553 Talk to me a little bit more about that, how you're doing that, how 00:30:14.553 --> 00:30:15.553 you're sharing that with your audience. 00:30:16.358 --> 00:30:17.908 Matt Abrahams: Again, I have interns who are doing it. 00:30:17.908 --> 00:30:19.148 They're really excited about it. 00:30:19.328 --> 00:30:23.308 Across our many episodes, there are certain themes and topics that we cover, 00:30:23.768 --> 00:30:27.628 and we can see how they do in terms of listens, plays, views, whatever 00:30:27.628 --> 00:30:30.668 you're monitoring, and so we know that there's an appetite for certain topics. 00:30:30.818 --> 00:30:31.668 I'll give you an example. 00:30:31.928 --> 00:30:35.028 We have done many episodes on the fear of speaking in public. 00:30:35.228 --> 00:30:36.588 A lot of people have that as a fear. 00:30:36.838 --> 00:30:38.268 Those episodes do very well. 00:30:38.923 --> 00:30:40.423 We have 6, 7, 8 of them. 00:30:40.553 --> 00:30:42.063 We're putting them together in a playlist. 00:30:42.643 --> 00:30:46.223 For our premium offering we have a similar playlist, but I actually 00:30:46.223 --> 00:30:49.023 put some additional content on it so it becomes a lesson. 00:30:49.183 --> 00:30:51.863 I wouldn't say it's a course, it's a little lesson where I'll say, 00:30:52.123 --> 00:30:53.623 listen to these three episodes. 00:30:53.623 --> 00:30:55.263 Here's some specific things to listen for. 00:30:55.263 --> 00:30:56.503 Here's how you might apply it. 00:30:57.178 --> 00:30:59.948 That takes a little heavier lift, and that's why it's part of our 00:30:59.948 --> 00:31:02.628 premium offering where people have to pay a little to get access to it. 00:31:03.008 --> 00:31:06.268 But the normal playlists, we're just combining them and so 00:31:06.368 --> 00:31:08.708 we post them on our website. 00:31:09.623 --> 00:31:12.243 And in Spotify and YouTube, we've mirrored them. 00:31:12.343 --> 00:31:14.523 So they have a name, they have a different show. 00:31:14.583 --> 00:31:14.803 Art. 00:31:15.093 --> 00:31:18.683 We're starting to tell people about them, and we are starting to monitor 00:31:18.823 --> 00:31:19.883 how many people listen to them. 00:31:20.143 --> 00:31:23.483 So we're practically tactically from a numbers point of view, it's just 00:31:23.483 --> 00:31:26.963 another way to get people to visit your content, but to help people. 00:31:27.103 --> 00:31:29.723 It really helps curate that content in a meaningful way. 00:31:30.383 --> 00:31:34.003 Audience Member 3: So since a lot of the work you're talking about is going through 00:31:34.203 --> 00:31:38.308 students, I'm always curious then, why engage with the students to have them 00:31:38.328 --> 00:31:41.908 all start their own podcasts so that they can start thinking about how do we 00:31:41.908 --> 00:31:46.468 bring guests on, start actually using the work you're teaching them, uh, to do 00:31:46.468 --> 00:31:47.828 that, help 'em get jobs and everything. 00:31:48.138 --> 00:31:48.428 Matt Abrahams: Yeah. 00:31:48.528 --> 00:31:51.788 So a couple of the people we've had help us over the years have had podcasts. 00:31:52.388 --> 00:31:53.648 And we're really excited about it. 00:31:53.788 --> 00:31:56.768 And what's so funny to me is a couple of them will come and say, I wanna see how a 00:31:56.768 --> 00:31:58.608 real professional podcast is put together. 00:31:58.948 --> 00:32:02.288 And I laugh and I say, this is not professional, this is, this is not. 00:32:02.748 --> 00:32:03.688 And they soon see that. 00:32:03.838 --> 00:32:06.288 Some come from a podcasting background, which is great. 00:32:06.288 --> 00:32:08.288 Others are interested in creating podcasts. 00:32:08.288 --> 00:32:08.848 We help them. 00:32:09.658 --> 00:32:13.078 The team has certainly mentored some of the students that have helped us. 00:32:13.458 --> 00:32:16.438 Our original founding executive producer did that a lot. 00:32:16.618 --> 00:32:17.758 Her name was Jenny Luna. 00:32:17.818 --> 00:32:20.478 She really helped, and we are doing that today with some of ours. 00:32:20.698 --> 00:32:24.278 So yes, we try to encourage podcasting and encourage them to do it. 00:32:25.028 --> 00:32:27.848 The other thing I would encourage all of you to do, and I have just started 00:32:27.848 --> 00:32:31.608 doing this at Stanford, is reaching out to the student community who are 00:32:31.928 --> 00:32:34.728 creators and have their own podcasts, and we're starting to bring people together 00:32:35.378 --> 00:32:36.488 and to really leverage each 00:32:36.488 --> 00:32:36.608 Matt Abrahams: other. 00:32:36.788 --> 00:32:42.408 We have a student who is one of the senior participants in Mr. Beast's group. 00:32:42.608 --> 00:32:45.728 I mean, this guy does all of their partnerships for Mr. Beast. 00:32:45.958 --> 00:32:49.808 He's a 26-year-old MBA student, and I met with him and he's 00:32:49.808 --> 00:32:50.728 giving us insight, I mean. 00:32:51.658 --> 00:32:52.918 Mr. Beast, it's nuts. 00:32:53.018 --> 00:32:55.718 The numbers, they're talking in terms of views and stuff. 00:32:55.778 --> 00:32:59.598 So harness in your communities, people who are doing this and leverage. 00:32:59.828 --> 00:33:04.238 When we pulled the podcast out from the business school, I reached out to as many 00:33:04.328 --> 00:33:08.118 podcasters as I could find very prominent podcasters, and I have been amazed. 00:33:08.268 --> 00:33:11.638 Everybody has been so kind and collaborative. 00:33:12.098 --> 00:33:12.958 No competition. 00:33:13.268 --> 00:33:15.478 Everybody's just been really helpful in giving insight. 00:33:15.628 --> 00:33:18.318 It's fun to be around others who do what we all do. 00:33:18.958 --> 00:33:22.418 And reach out to that and help encourage young folks, like you 00:33:22.418 --> 00:33:24.498 said, to create their own podcasts. 00:33:24.978 --> 00:33:28.458 I actually think they have the energy and excitement for it for sure. 00:33:29.668 --> 00:33:29.888 Yes. 00:33:30.388 --> 00:33:30.608 Hi. 00:33:31.058 --> 00:33:32.768 Audience Member 4: First of all, thank you for your insights. 00:33:33.198 --> 00:33:36.408 What are your ethical conversations like with students 00:33:36.408 --> 00:33:38.528 with regards to media and AI? 00:33:38.718 --> 00:33:40.888 What are the questions that they are asking? 00:33:41.238 --> 00:33:42.768 What are the resources you're bringing in? 00:33:42.788 --> 00:33:47.473 Who are you holding up as examples of, look at these people for these 00:33:47.483 --> 00:33:50.873 kinds of considerations or for examples of what has been happening 00:33:50.893 --> 00:33:52.393 in regards to ethics and AI? 00:33:52.833 --> 00:33:54.753 Matt Abrahams: I probably need to do more of that, to be honest. 00:33:55.093 --> 00:33:58.833 So we definitely talk about AI and the use of AI. 00:33:58.853 --> 00:34:01.873 So when I teach, we have a lot of conversations about AI, especially 00:34:01.873 --> 00:34:03.233 when you teach strategic communication. 00:34:03.653 --> 00:34:06.873 Our students take an ethics class, and so I try to tap into what 00:34:06.873 --> 00:34:09.273 they're talking about in ethics and reinforce what they have there. 00:34:09.873 --> 00:34:11.473 I share what I use AI for. 00:34:11.713 --> 00:34:14.113 I share some of the challenges that I have with AI. 00:34:15.108 --> 00:34:20.388 I encourage them to really leverage it as a tool to help, but to be very 00:34:20.388 --> 00:34:22.868 mindful of where that content came from. 00:34:22.948 --> 00:34:25.908 I mean, as creators, we are all creating content, and I think 00:34:26.008 --> 00:34:29.388 we deserve the respect and the effort that that effort requires. 00:34:29.388 --> 00:34:34.188 So I encourage them to do that, and I fear that AI will reduce 00:34:34.188 --> 00:34:36.108 people's ability to critically think. 00:34:36.568 --> 00:34:40.308 And so I really encourage my students to keep their critical thinking 00:34:40.308 --> 00:34:43.468 skills sharp and to really evaluate and judge what AI produces for them. 00:34:44.623 --> 00:34:47.123 Jennifer-Lee: We have time for one to two more questions. 00:34:47.983 --> 00:34:50.883 Audience Member 5: What's the process, 'cause the fun note, you know, you've 00:34:50.883 --> 00:34:54.733 got a popular podcast, so everybody and their brother wants to be on it now. 00:34:55.213 --> 00:34:57.283 So what's the criteria of choosing your guests? 00:34:57.783 --> 00:34:58.603 Matt Abrahams: That's a great question. 00:34:58.663 --> 00:35:04.043 So one is, is it in alignment with our theme and is there value that 00:35:04.043 --> 00:35:06.038 the person can bring to the audience. 00:35:06.038 --> 00:35:07.438 That's probably the number one thing. 00:35:07.898 --> 00:35:12.518 Two is, is there some unique perspective that the person brings? 00:35:13.138 --> 00:35:13.678 You are right. 00:35:13.698 --> 00:35:17.798 As we have gotten more popular, I think at least 5 to 10 requests 00:35:17.868 --> 00:35:20.958 come in sometimes per day for people who have books and other things 00:35:20.958 --> 00:35:22.038 that they want to be on the show. 00:35:22.458 --> 00:35:25.678 And I just have a standard boilerplate thing I send back to many of them. 00:35:26.438 --> 00:35:30.758 I would say probably 80% of our guests I solicit versus them coming to me. 00:35:31.218 --> 00:35:34.228 Because there are certain themes and ideas that we want to cover. 00:35:34.658 --> 00:35:37.428 Believe me, it's a nice place to be where people wanna be on the show. 00:35:37.668 --> 00:35:40.148 'Cause I remember starting out and having to beg people to be on the show. 00:35:40.568 --> 00:35:41.668 So that has been nice. 00:35:41.768 --> 00:35:43.508 But it has to add value to the audience. 00:35:43.828 --> 00:35:47.188 I have to, I will personally wanna learn from it and it has to be 00:35:47.188 --> 00:35:48.668 some kind of unique perspective. 00:35:48.798 --> 00:35:49.988 Those are the three criteria. 00:35:50.298 --> 00:35:50.588 Jennifer-Lee: Okay. 00:35:50.588 --> 00:35:52.428 So we're gonna go with the final question. 00:35:53.128 --> 00:35:54.188 Audience Member 6: You may hate this question. 00:35:54.498 --> 00:35:54.788 Matt Abrahams: Okay. 00:35:55.228 --> 00:35:57.148 Audience Member 6: When the ice cube melts, what will you be doing? 00:35:58.518 --> 00:35:58.738 Matt Abrahams: Ah. 00:35:59.758 --> 00:36:02.418 So I love teaching and I'm curious. 00:36:02.478 --> 00:36:07.218 So I'm gonna find, podcasting is, I mean, for those of us who do this, it's amazing. 00:36:07.318 --> 00:36:09.178 It scratches so many itches that I have. 00:36:09.338 --> 00:36:10.818 I love to talk to really smart people. 00:36:11.058 --> 00:36:11.778 I love to learn. 00:36:11.958 --> 00:36:14.738 I'm incredibly curious, so I will find other avenues for that. 00:36:15.578 --> 00:36:17.738 I think there is always a need to create content. 00:36:18.098 --> 00:36:21.618 I just think it's how we engage that content and how we bring value to people. 00:36:22.158 --> 00:36:25.378 So I don't know what it'll be, but it'll certainly be me asking questions 00:36:25.718 --> 00:36:26.938 and trying to learn from people. 00:36:28.223 --> 00:36:29.613 Jennifer-Lee: Well, thank you so much, Matt. 00:36:29.613 --> 00:36:30.713 We really appreciate it. 00:36:31.923 --> 00:36:32.393 Matt Abrahams: Thank you. 00:36:35.793 --> 00:36:38.513 I am, I'm happy to chat with all of you and learn from all of you. 00:36:38.553 --> 00:36:40.353 I want to hear what all of you are up to for sure. 00:36:42.183 --> 00:36:42.473 Neil McPhedran: Okay. 00:36:42.493 --> 00:36:43.153 That's a wrap. 00:36:43.703 --> 00:36:47.153 What a great conversation we had with Matt. 00:36:47.873 --> 00:36:49.593 I really enjoyed that. 00:36:49.823 --> 00:36:55.593 Lots of fantastic insights for higher education podcasters, no doubt. 00:36:55.893 --> 00:36:58.233 Jennifer-Lee: And I just love the live element because you 00:36:58.233 --> 00:37:01.833 know, you can hear the audience laughing, you can feel the audience. 00:37:02.103 --> 00:37:02.953 It's different, like yes. 00:37:03.863 --> 00:37:08.923 In the perfect world, the sound quality might not be there, but I like the 00:37:09.253 --> 00:37:11.643 whole live element versus studio. 00:37:11.903 --> 00:37:13.323 So I thought it was great. 00:37:13.903 --> 00:37:17.243 Neil McPhedran: Yes, all in all, great trip, great conference. 00:37:17.673 --> 00:37:24.173 Love this episode, and I'm so glad that we decided to record live while we 00:37:24.173 --> 00:37:26.733 were there and we got it all to work. 00:37:27.473 --> 00:37:30.373 Jennifer-Lee: And hopefully we'll be doing it again next year. 00:37:30.583 --> 00:37:32.453 Maybe Chicago, maybe not. 00:37:33.013 --> 00:37:34.093 Neil McPhedran: I think we're gonna be going to a different 00:37:34.093 --> 00:37:38.213 city, different university for next year's Higher Ed PodCon. 00:37:38.253 --> 00:37:41.333 That, that'll be decided over the next few months, but yeah, 00:37:41.353 --> 00:37:42.293 it was, but it was great. 00:37:42.813 --> 00:37:43.303 Jennifer-Lee: Perfect. 00:37:43.473 --> 00:37:47.383 Thank you so much for tuning into the Continuous Studies podcast, our 00:37:47.383 --> 00:37:51.663 very first live episode, a podcast for higher education podcasters. 00:37:52.083 --> 00:37:55.183 We hope you found this episode informative and inspiring. 00:37:55.643 --> 00:37:58.463 If you enjoyed the show, we encourage you to follow and subscribe to our 00:37:58.463 --> 00:38:01.663 podcast on your preferred platform, so you'll never miss an episode. 00:38:01.963 --> 00:38:05.783 But if you found this episode particularly valuable, please consider 00:38:05.783 --> 00:38:09.063 sharing it with your friends and colleagues who also might be interested 00:38:09.163 --> 00:38:10.543 in a higher education podcast. 00:38:11.003 --> 00:38:15.503 We also invite you to join your peers on HigherEdPods.com, where you can connect 00:38:15.503 --> 00:38:19.303 with other podcasters in higher education and learn from others in the field. 00:38:19.553 --> 00:38:21.303 Thank you for being part of our community. 00:38:21.323 --> 00:38:25.303 We look forward to continuing to bring you valuable insights and conversations 00:38:25.603 --> 00:38:27.783 around higher education podcasts. 00:38:27.963 --> 00:38:29.143 See you in the next episode.