WEBVTT NOTE This file was generated by Descript 00:00:10.554 --> 00:00:12.138 Matt: Hey, Brian, welcome to breaking content. 00:00:12.210 --> 00:00:12.800 Brian: Hey, Matt. 00:00:12.850 --> 00:00:13.090 Yeah. 00:00:13.090 --> 00:00:14.930 Great to connect with you as always. 00:00:15.030 --> 00:00:17.850 I feel like, you know, you and I have done like the guest 00:00:17.890 --> 00:00:19.750 interview thing for, for years. 00:00:19.970 --> 00:00:20.740 I'm on your podcast. 00:00:20.770 --> 00:00:25.000 You come on my podcast and it's kind of fun to to get on a new show and 00:00:25.000 --> 00:00:28.100 sort of, I don't know, co host this thing or do a season or I don't know, 00:00:28.200 --> 00:00:29.370 what, what are we doing here, Matt? 00:00:30.460 --> 00:00:32.980 Matt: So here's, here's how I had this crazy idea come about. 00:00:33.480 --> 00:00:38.360 Obviously I listened to your bootstrap web podcast and in the recent. 00:00:38.632 --> 00:00:41.922 Either last episode or the episode before that, you started talking about 00:00:41.922 --> 00:00:44.882 like some of these side endeavors that you wanted to go down with Jordan. 00:00:44.882 --> 00:00:47.152 You were talking about how, you know, getting back into 00:00:47.152 --> 00:00:48.452 the content creation game. 00:00:49.317 --> 00:00:53.467 iS something that you're interested in, podcast video, you're currently redoing 00:00:53.467 --> 00:00:57.167 your office to like build what I'm assuming, and we'll talk about this, is 00:00:57.167 --> 00:01:01.587 almost like, probably like a video set, or a better looking set when you're on video 00:01:02.127 --> 00:01:04.047 and I was like, there's a thread here. 00:01:04.557 --> 00:01:08.507 That I really want to pull on because as a listener of the 00:01:08.507 --> 00:01:12.397 show, I'm sure there's other folks Listening to bootstrap web going. 00:01:12.397 --> 00:01:18.017 Hey, I love the running a business I love when Brian talks about coding and 00:01:18.467 --> 00:01:22.607 and maybe like how you know using bench if you still even use bench I forget 00:01:22.607 --> 00:01:26.087 what you're using these days, but like they love that side of it But for me, 00:01:26.087 --> 00:01:29.147 I'm like, I want to know more about this content marketing thing that you're doing. 00:01:29.157 --> 00:01:34.217 Mm hmm So I was like, hey Brian, let's do this limited Series podcast won't take a 00:01:34.217 --> 00:01:38.507 lot of your time won't take a lot of my time and we'll do two episodes a month 00:01:38.537 --> 00:01:44.307 Make it nice and easy for us and what I'm hoping this breaking content is for 00:01:44.607 --> 00:01:50.317 is for creators and Founders right the creators that are out there doing this 00:01:50.327 --> 00:01:54.477 creator thing I'm making a few hundred bucks a month and in YouTube Adsense, 00:01:54.477 --> 00:01:58.747 and I'm selling sponsorship, but I need to get better So I'm going to tune in, 00:01:58.897 --> 00:02:03.297 and there are founders out there of indie products, of other SaaS type companies, 00:02:03.307 --> 00:02:06.937 of WordPress theme plugins, the ones that I spend a lot of time with, who are 00:02:06.937 --> 00:02:08.857 like, got to supplement the business. 00:02:08.917 --> 00:02:11.397 Need another, need another revenue stream. 00:02:11.867 --> 00:02:14.377 How can I transfer that knowledge into content marketing? 00:02:14.377 --> 00:02:16.387 So that's, that's a part of it. 00:02:16.387 --> 00:02:20.687 And why I picked you, obviously is we've known each other for decades. 00:02:20.687 --> 00:02:21.007 I was, 00:02:21.007 --> 00:02:22.547 Brian: I was thinking about that the other day. 00:02:22.547 --> 00:02:23.447 It's been a while. 00:02:24.042 --> 00:02:24.312 Yeah. 00:02:24.322 --> 00:02:28.552 Like 2010, 2009, 2010, something like that we met. 00:02:28.602 --> 00:02:28.832 Matt: Yeah. 00:02:28.832 --> 00:02:35.812 When you, when you talked about restaurant engine at WordCamp Providence, right. 00:02:35.812 --> 00:02:39.522 So, you know, and I was like, there's gotta be other people like me who 00:02:39.522 --> 00:02:43.782 listened to Brian and also want to just go deeper on the content marketing. 00:02:43.782 --> 00:02:46.922 So when I pitched this idea to you and you were like, I don't have a lot of 00:02:46.922 --> 00:02:49.242 time, what is this going to be about? 00:02:49.242 --> 00:02:54.632 I'm like, I think bootstrap web, but really focused on the content 00:02:55.092 --> 00:02:56.062 and content marketing side of it. 00:02:56.102 --> 00:02:56.452 I, 00:02:56.512 --> 00:03:01.492 Brian: I, I, I, I'm a fan of everything that you do, Matt, but also I think 00:03:01.492 --> 00:03:05.197 this is really good timing because you're right, I'm I am really 00:03:05.197 --> 00:03:07.997 spending a lot of time right now. 00:03:08.077 --> 00:03:11.727 I have been for the last, like, two months or so going deep down the rabbit 00:03:11.727 --> 00:03:18.717 hole of content creation and especially a lot of focus on YouTube and, like, 00:03:18.717 --> 00:03:20.817 researching and planning and plotting. 00:03:21.247 --> 00:03:25.647 And as you can see on video, I'm, my office is in disarray right now. 00:03:25.647 --> 00:03:30.327 I'm I'm, I'm redesigning the whole, the whole layout, but yeah, and I'm excited 00:03:30.327 --> 00:03:33.797 to do it with you because a part of this is I want to sort of pick your 00:03:33.797 --> 00:03:39.097 brain about, especially the technical side of everything when it comes to 00:03:39.317 --> 00:03:41.787 production you know, not just podcasting. 00:03:41.787 --> 00:03:44.487 I know you're, you're, you know, you, you really know your way around 00:03:44.487 --> 00:03:46.827 a video production stack as well. 00:03:46.827 --> 00:03:47.167 So. 00:03:47.602 --> 00:03:50.382 I'm really, really learning on that side of things. 00:03:50.472 --> 00:03:55.042 And and you know, like literally this, this week, I'm starting to figure out like 00:03:55.052 --> 00:03:57.712 which editing tools I want to get into. 00:03:58.052 --> 00:04:02.432 I've had the part of the thing for me has always been, you know, you 00:04:02.432 --> 00:04:05.762 were talking about like doing the content thing and being a founder 00:04:05.952 --> 00:04:07.334 and working on other businesses. 00:04:07.334 --> 00:04:09.872 That's still the case for me today. 00:04:09.872 --> 00:04:13.859 I still run clarity flow as my, as my SAS business. 00:04:14.789 --> 00:04:22.889 bUt I am, all this planning and plotting is toward shifting my focus in 2024 to 00:04:23.699 --> 00:04:28.169 sort of making the content thing, like I'm thinking of it like a media brand 00:04:29.039 --> 00:04:31.009 that's going to become my main business. 00:04:31.359 --> 00:04:34.179 And Clarity Flow is, is still going to be running it. 00:04:34.179 --> 00:04:35.969 I've got a small team working on it, but that's. 00:04:36.464 --> 00:04:42.484 That's going to sort of be demoted a little bit to like a side business while 00:04:42.484 --> 00:04:48.364 I focus most of my energy and resources on building up a YouTube channel and 00:04:48.424 --> 00:04:52.324 audience again and and like in the past, I've I don't have a large audience, 00:04:52.324 --> 00:04:56.954 but but what what sort of audience that I've grown over the last 1015 00:04:56.964 --> 00:04:58.744 years of doing this has always been. 00:04:59.604 --> 00:05:03.084 The audience thing for me has always been a side hustle, sort of like, like 00:05:03.084 --> 00:05:07.424 a side like a byproduct of just being public about the, about the work that 00:05:07.424 --> 00:05:10.694 I do on software and product high services and stuff and having the 00:05:10.694 --> 00:05:12.134 podcast with Jordan and stuff like that. 00:05:12.134 --> 00:05:12.654 It's just like. 00:05:13.124 --> 00:05:15.774 Audience building stuff that I don't really put a whole lot of 00:05:15.824 --> 00:05:17.544 effort into it sort of just happens. 00:05:18.344 --> 00:05:22.434 But now I'm trying to put actual effort as if it's like my main business. 00:05:22.554 --> 00:05:25.804 And, and I'm learning how to make it like a full time, like creator 00:05:25.824 --> 00:05:27.974 media style business, you know? 00:05:28.184 --> 00:05:30.764 And I'm in like the, like day zero of this right now. 00:05:30.764 --> 00:05:32.254 I'm really pretty just 00:05:32.264 --> 00:05:32.644 Matt: getting into it. 00:05:36.833 --> 00:05:42.503 That's a perfect segue into today's topic, into the first episode, and I'm trying 00:05:42.503 --> 00:05:46.793 to, again, we're getting, this is a, I was just saying this to Brian before we 00:05:46.793 --> 00:05:50.343 hit record, literally spent two minutes just saying hi and then hitting record 00:05:50.343 --> 00:05:53.503 so we could get in, so we could save time and just get in the meat of it, but this 00:05:53.503 --> 00:05:59.403 is like a meta podcast, like Brian and I both working on our content, and Talking 00:05:59.443 --> 00:06:04.203 about how I'm building this particular series, this limited series of content. 00:06:04.203 --> 00:06:10.753 So we're going to shift into what I'm hoping is a series of evergreen episodes. 00:06:10.983 --> 00:06:15.183 These are going to hopefully titled and the, what we're talking 00:06:15.183 --> 00:06:18.393 about is going to be much more evergreen than it is in the moment. 00:06:18.403 --> 00:06:25.523 So if you are a fan of bootstrap web, or if you listen to like my short form. 00:06:25.703 --> 00:06:26.843 Podcast about wordpress. 00:06:26.863 --> 00:06:29.203 It's literally about hey, what's happening this week. 00:06:29.613 --> 00:06:31.433 Jordan and brian talk about catching up. 00:06:31.453 --> 00:06:35.503 It's very in the moment I'm, hoping that these episodes are much more evergreen 00:06:36.253 --> 00:06:40.103 these hierarchical topics hierarchical I don't know if that's the right word. 00:06:40.393 --> 00:06:44.953 Where we're looking at Content marketing from a 50, 000 foot view. 00:06:45.683 --> 00:06:50.933 The title I have written down for today's episode is why content marketing. 00:06:51.543 --> 00:06:54.813 And that's what I want to transition into right now to talk about that. 00:06:55.113 --> 00:06:58.293 But I do have a secret goal that I didn't mention from the preface 00:06:58.303 --> 00:07:01.843 segment was my goal is to make this your favorite hour every single month. 00:07:01.843 --> 00:07:05.723 That's my goal is to make this your favorite hour every month. 00:07:06.083 --> 00:07:07.833 Let's talk about why content marketing. 00:07:07.833 --> 00:07:14.003 Cause I didn't know this until, just now, you want to build a larger media brand. 00:07:15.253 --> 00:07:15.743 Why? 00:07:16.373 --> 00:07:16.703 Brian: Yeah. 00:07:16.783 --> 00:07:22.433 You know, content marketing that term I feel like nobody really knows what 00:07:22.433 --> 00:07:26.563 to, what, what is content marketing, but the way that I'm thinking about 00:07:26.563 --> 00:07:30.523 it right now in terms of this new brand and then the name that I've 00:07:30.523 --> 00:07:35.133 started to sort of use, and I got the domain name instrumental products. 00:07:35.983 --> 00:07:38.113 That's going to be sort of like the brand name. 00:07:38.123 --> 00:07:41.393 I mean, it's, it'll be built around my personal brand too, but that's 00:07:41.393 --> 00:07:44.773 sort of the name and the domain that I, that I started working with. 00:07:44.873 --> 00:07:48.878 Again, it's super early days right now, but, I'm thinking about 00:07:48.878 --> 00:07:54.178 it like a company, like a media company and content is the product. 00:07:54.918 --> 00:07:56.948 So it's not, it's not really content to me. 00:07:56.948 --> 00:07:58.408 It's not content marketing. 00:07:58.888 --> 00:08:02.408 It's not like we're using marketing to sell some other product. 00:08:02.848 --> 00:08:05.178 The way that I'm thinking about it is like, this is the product. 00:08:05.578 --> 00:08:07.388 There will be revenue streams. 00:08:07.408 --> 00:08:11.008 And I'm thinking about those a little bit more like a stage two of this thing. 00:08:11.358 --> 00:08:14.298 But stage one is just grow the audience. 00:08:14.663 --> 00:08:20.223 And also to dial in what the content is, I have a, I have a rough concept, 00:08:20.223 --> 00:08:24.083 which is around product strategy and helping people build a product 00:08:24.163 --> 00:08:27.133 helping people some, I think a big focus will be like helping people 00:08:27.133 --> 00:08:28.843 learn how to code for the first time. 00:08:28.993 --> 00:08:32.173 If, if you want to bootstrap and build your own products 00:08:32.173 --> 00:08:34.543 the way, the way that I sort of transitioned into that over the last. 00:08:34.912 --> 00:08:37.412 I don't know if that's naturally going to be the final direction. 00:08:37.442 --> 00:08:41.042 I'm going to sort of explore and do a lot of, a lot of YouTube videos, a lot 00:08:41.042 --> 00:08:43.712 of content around exploring different. 00:08:44.147 --> 00:08:46.997 Branches of this tree and then see what kind of resonates and 00:08:47.007 --> 00:08:48.127 start to really dial it in. 00:08:48.627 --> 00:08:52.097 But that and, you know, I, I've started to get really excited about this idea 00:08:52.097 --> 00:08:56.767 of treating every piece of content, like every video on YouTube or every 00:08:57.017 --> 00:09:03.617 weekly newsletter as a product like that in itself is a is a mini product like. 00:09:04.057 --> 00:09:04.267 All right. 00:09:04.267 --> 00:09:06.127 I'm planning a YouTube video. 00:09:07.127 --> 00:09:08.767 What's, who is it for? 00:09:08.977 --> 00:09:10.217 Who's the, who's the customer? 00:09:11.317 --> 00:09:15.067 What's the value that they should receive from clicking play on this video? 00:09:15.527 --> 00:09:16.607 How are we going to position it? 00:09:16.607 --> 00:09:17.627 How are we going to package it? 00:09:18.327 --> 00:09:22.567 You know, thumbnail, title, positioning, how are we going to hook them and how, 00:09:22.597 --> 00:09:25.807 and how are we going to like deliver the value over the course of the video? 00:09:26.282 --> 00:09:31.632 And that's, and, and I haven't even gotten into the weekly routine 00:09:31.632 --> 00:09:34.742 yet of, of producing but that, that's going to start this month. 00:09:34.802 --> 00:09:35.842 that's how I'm thinking about it. 00:09:35.842 --> 00:09:39.212 Like, it's a content business, so I've, I've like, like fired up a 00:09:39.212 --> 00:09:42.962 notion workspace and I'm like planning all the operations around, like. 00:09:44.712 --> 00:09:49.912 What does it look like to produce a new video or maybe two videos and a newsletter 00:09:49.982 --> 00:09:54.492 and some tweets and LinkedIn stuff and on a weekly basis ongoing, you know? 00:09:55.032 --> 00:09:55.322 And 00:09:55.322 --> 00:09:57.882 Matt: this is going, and you're going to build this content and promote 00:09:57.882 --> 00:10:05.222 this content around the idea for folks to not just get clarity flow, right? 00:10:05.222 --> 00:10:07.412 It's, it's not going to be part of that. 00:10:07.412 --> 00:10:09.892 It's going to be for them to Yeah. 00:10:10.452 --> 00:10:13.782 Brian: It's not yeah, this is a separate thing from ClarityFlow 00:10:13.922 --> 00:10:17.712 separate business, separate it'll, it'll probably be a separate audience. 00:10:17.752 --> 00:10:24.222 Like ClarityFlow is really, ClarityFlow, we, we do use content 00:10:24.222 --> 00:10:26.942 marketing to market that SaaS product. 00:10:27.997 --> 00:10:30.867 We've got a clarity flow, a limited podcast over there. 00:10:30.867 --> 00:10:33.447 We've got SEO articles and stuff like that. 00:10:34.087 --> 00:10:38.007 But it's, but also, but my personal brand is not really in clarity. 00:10:38.037 --> 00:10:41.667 Like most, most people who find clarity flow today don't know who I am. 00:10:41.987 --> 00:10:45.337 And and clarity flow is aimed at coaches. 00:10:46.712 --> 00:10:49.362 It's primarily a tool for running a coaching business. 00:10:49.362 --> 00:10:54.872 Whereas this, what I'm focused on now is going to be more for like product 00:10:54.912 --> 00:11:01.252 founders, essentially, or people who, who want to, uh, build, transition to 00:11:01.252 --> 00:11:03.212 a product space business, you know? 00:11:03.312 --> 00:11:03.582 So you don't, 00:11:03.632 --> 00:11:05.622 Matt: you don't see it as sort of like, I hate to. 00:11:07.052 --> 00:11:11.502 Well, not hate, it's kind of a strong phrase, but I don't want to use his name, 00:11:11.682 --> 00:11:14.102 like, you're not staking your Gary V. 00:11:14.142 --> 00:11:15.112 claim here, right? 00:11:15.112 --> 00:11:17.062 Like, here's Gary V. 00:11:17.552 --> 00:11:22.902 Gary Vaynerchuk, here's the man, you know, the brand, and then he's got all 00:11:22.902 --> 00:11:26.442 these little Products below him, right? 00:11:26.442 --> 00:11:30.582 And you kind of see each one in the content that he puts out. 00:11:30.582 --> 00:11:32.112 This isn't that for you, right? 00:11:32.122 --> 00:11:35.812 Like this won't feed Clarity Flow or another product in the future. 00:11:35.812 --> 00:11:38.502 It's going to be just the products that come from. 00:11:38.742 --> 00:11:39.212 Yeah, 00:11:39.392 --> 00:11:42.092 Brian: I'm basically way that I'm thinking about it right now is. 00:11:42.392 --> 00:11:44.862 So for the past three years, I've had a single business 00:11:44.862 --> 00:11:46.442 that's clarity flow before that. 00:11:46.442 --> 00:11:53.302 I sold, I sold a bunch of businesses, but as of 20, like, end of 2020, 2021 is 00:11:53.302 --> 00:11:55.892 when I went all in on just clarity flow. 00:11:55.892 --> 00:12:00.762 And that's been the case for the last 3 years, starting in now and into 2024. 00:12:01.722 --> 00:12:05.892 I'm going to two businesses, essentially, it's going to be this that I'm calling 00:12:05.902 --> 00:12:08.422 instrumental products and clarity flow. 00:12:08.942 --> 00:12:13.032 Yeah, and like, and like, high level, the way that I'm thinking about 00:12:13.042 --> 00:12:19.212 instrumental products is kind of a couple of phased approaches like phase 1 is 00:12:19.222 --> 00:12:21.532 grow the audience, you know, go from my. 00:12:21.892 --> 00:12:27.422 Little organic circles of networks that I have right now to, I really 00:12:27.422 --> 00:12:32.222 want to focus on growing a large audience of, of this type of like 00:12:32.232 --> 00:12:36.492 product founders through primarily through YouTube and email newsletter. 00:12:36.952 --> 00:12:43.452 And that's like phase 1 and, but it'll be like ongoing and then like phase 2, 00:12:43.462 --> 00:12:46.782 maybe middle of next year or something is when I can start to look into. 00:12:47.182 --> 00:12:50.192 All right, what are the potential revenue streams from this and the, 00:12:50.382 --> 00:12:54.132 and I look and I don't even know what, what I'll land on, but there's 00:12:54.132 --> 00:12:56.382 courses I could do, I could do courses. 00:12:56.432 --> 00:12:58.622 Maybe, maybe a series of mini courses. 00:12:59.077 --> 00:13:01.487 I could sell sponsorships on the YouTube channel. 00:13:01.487 --> 00:13:04.117 I could sell sponsorships on my podcast, open threads. 00:13:05.507 --> 00:13:10.167 You know, another concept that I'm, that I'm getting excited about, but 00:13:10.197 --> 00:13:14.637 it's probably a further down the line would be like a membership product. 00:13:15.707 --> 00:13:16.217 You know, so. 00:13:16.752 --> 00:13:21.102 If you're in the community, in the audience of, of this brand, there'll 00:13:21.102 --> 00:13:26.622 be like a private limited membership area, sort of a community, but maybe, 00:13:26.832 --> 00:13:30.822 maybe also doing like live, like a live events component to that. 00:13:30.882 --> 00:13:33.552 I've, I've been a fan of like, really small conferences that 00:13:33.552 --> 00:13:34.472 can, that can play into it. 00:13:34.472 --> 00:13:38.562 So, you know, just lots of like, potential ideas on, on where the revenue 00:13:38.572 --> 00:13:42.432 could come from, but in the, but in the short term, I, I strategically, 00:13:42.432 --> 00:13:46.122 I like the idea of like, just focus on audience and distribution first. 00:13:46.537 --> 00:13:51.697 Like grow that as large as I possibly can through and the best 00:13:51.817 --> 00:13:53.347 way that I know how to do that. 00:13:53.697 --> 00:13:58.047 And to me, my favorite way to do that is to just create really great 00:13:58.047 --> 00:14:01.087 content and not, not doing these hacks. 00:14:01.107 --> 00:14:05.897 Like, there's nothing wrong with like SEO and cold outreach and as 00:14:05.907 --> 00:14:09.227 we, we do those things for, for clarity flow for other products. 00:14:09.267 --> 00:14:12.257 That's that can be very successful for, for any other products. 00:14:13.037 --> 00:14:13.387 But. 00:14:13.857 --> 00:14:18.207 What I'm excited about is the creative side of it is, is creating and 00:14:18.207 --> 00:14:20.937 producing video and podcast content. 00:14:20.967 --> 00:14:25.857 And, and when I, we can get into it, I'm sure, but like, one of the 00:14:25.857 --> 00:14:28.897 reasons I'm, I'm really excited about YouTube specifically is that 00:14:29.297 --> 00:14:33.732 the way that I see it, what I'm learning about right now is the more. 00:14:34.772 --> 00:14:40.452 Effort that you put into quality and top and picking the right topics and 00:14:40.452 --> 00:14:44.542 connecting with an audience YouTube sort of just rewards you with serving 00:14:44.552 --> 00:14:46.032 your content up through the algorithm. 00:14:46.642 --> 00:14:49.082 That's exciting to me, because then it's like, you're literally 00:14:49.082 --> 00:14:51.452 rewarded for your creativity. 00:14:52.042 --> 00:14:56.052 Whereas with like SEO or ads or cold outreach, it's just technical. 00:14:56.052 --> 00:14:58.502 It's a little bit borderline hacky. 00:14:58.522 --> 00:15:02.772 It's, you know, but it sort of works maybe, hopefully, I don't know. 00:15:02.792 --> 00:15:06.192 And that that sort of that style of marketing I've always found pretty 00:15:06.192 --> 00:15:10.122 frustrating and I've I've been challenged with that as a founder. 00:15:10.522 --> 00:15:12.742 And my strength has always been more on the creative side. 00:15:12.742 --> 00:15:18.032 So that's why for this business, after, after many businesses, I'm, I'm excited 00:15:18.032 --> 00:15:20.222 to sort of dive in as like a media content 00:15:20.222 --> 00:15:20.852 Matt: kind of company. 00:15:21.822 --> 00:15:24.812 I, I swear to God, I, I, I don't have a crystal ball, but the 00:15:24.832 --> 00:15:28.102 actual next bullet point I wrote down was creative fulfillment. 00:15:28.902 --> 00:15:30.612 And it, it kind of just goes to show like. 00:15:31.487 --> 00:15:36.187 When we take a step back and we say, why does, well, I mean, you have to 00:15:36.187 --> 00:15:38.887 know the history of, of Brian and I get the history, we'll get into 00:15:38.887 --> 00:15:44.287 the history of like my media brand as well in a moment, but I mean, 00:15:44.287 --> 00:15:46.897 restaurant engine and then you had 00:15:48.412 --> 00:15:52.332 Brian: Right after Restaurant Engine, I started, well, another product I 00:15:52.332 --> 00:15:56.042 service, I started audience ops at the time that I sold Restaurant Engine, 00:15:56.042 --> 00:15:57.542 but sort of overlapped with that. 00:15:57.542 --> 00:15:59.282 I started the productized course, 00:16:00.552 --> 00:16:02.262 Matt: but even before that you were doing consulting? 00:16:02.267 --> 00:16:03.622 Yeah, like before, 00:16:03.622 --> 00:16:04.337 Brian: like right after that? 00:16:04.337 --> 00:16:05.572 Before even before Restaurant Engine. 00:16:05.572 --> 00:16:07.972 I, I started as like a freelance web designer. 00:16:08.102 --> 00:16:14.812 Yeah, from 2008 and I started Restaurant Engine, I think around 2011. 00:16:15.607 --> 00:16:20.167 And, and I phased out my like freelance client work around 2012. 00:16:21.767 --> 00:16:21.977 Matt: Yeah. 00:16:22.037 --> 00:16:24.827 And then you got, but you got into selling a course for, for 00:16:24.827 --> 00:16:28.067 processing and productizing before you got into audience ops, didn't 00:16:28.067 --> 00:16:28.277 Brian: you? 00:16:28.917 --> 00:16:29.757 Slightly before. 00:16:29.757 --> 00:16:32.277 I think I launched productized in 2014. 00:16:32.697 --> 00:16:33.027 Oh, okay. 00:16:33.027 --> 00:16:35.577 And I launched audience ops I think in 2015. 00:16:36.642 --> 00:16:39.447 Matt: So when we look at it, it's like, okay, why not? 00:16:40.687 --> 00:16:43.087 Why not do, I mean I, I think I know the answer, but I'll 00:16:43.087 --> 00:16:44.197 have you kind of define it. 00:16:44.677 --> 00:16:46.147 creating a media brand. 00:16:46.752 --> 00:16:53.682 You're looking at it as good content, serves me, serves a purpose. 00:16:53.912 --> 00:16:55.192 It can help me grow a business. 00:16:55.522 --> 00:16:58.012 It can serve like what an audience is looking for. 00:16:58.392 --> 00:16:59.402 It's creative. 00:16:59.422 --> 00:17:00.732 It's like the creative fulfillment. 00:17:00.762 --> 00:17:05.432 I enjoy doing this and it's not writing lines of code. 00:17:06.592 --> 00:17:09.222 Well, competing with a, with a market competitor, 00:17:09.742 --> 00:17:10.272 Brian: leading market. 00:17:10.322 --> 00:17:10.962 I'll be honest. 00:17:10.962 --> 00:17:14.672 I have some open questions about whether or not I actually, is 00:17:14.672 --> 00:17:15.942 it actually fulfilling for me? 00:17:15.972 --> 00:17:16.362 Because they're. 00:17:16.732 --> 00:17:20.082 Aspects of it that are really fulfilling the, the really creative parts. 00:17:20.252 --> 00:17:26.112 So you can call it writing, but like just ideating on like new content 00:17:26.112 --> 00:17:30.512 ideas which maybe takes the form of like writing a script or you know, 00:17:30.512 --> 00:17:31.522 just connecting with an audience. 00:17:31.522 --> 00:17:32.482 I really liked that. 00:17:32.532 --> 00:17:35.072 I sort of enjoy getting on the mics or getting on camera, you 00:17:35.072 --> 00:17:39.162 know, I, that I've become pretty comfortable with that editing. 00:17:39.642 --> 00:17:41.752 I do like the creative side of it. 00:17:41.752 --> 00:17:45.512 I also like getting technical, but I'm, I'm a little bit afraid that it's going 00:17:45.512 --> 00:17:49.232 to become a grind and I'm, and I would like to outsource it at some point. 00:17:49.232 --> 00:17:52.712 But I, in the early days, I want to learn how to do it really well. 00:17:52.772 --> 00:17:56.242 I've, I've hacked through like screen flow and stuff for years, but I want to see. 00:17:57.192 --> 00:18:04.552 So that's a, that's a learning area, but the coding and software is 00:18:04.552 --> 00:18:08.742 something that I don't want to let go of, uh, because that's probably what 00:18:08.742 --> 00:18:10.872 I love doing most creatively now. 00:18:11.217 --> 00:18:13.497 Is designing and building software. 00:18:14.217 --> 00:18:16.497 And that's what I spend most of my time on clarity flow doing is 00:18:16.497 --> 00:18:17.887 working on the on the product. 00:18:18.567 --> 00:18:22.937 And so that's why I want to make the focus of this new channel instrumental 00:18:22.937 --> 00:18:25.167 products all about creating products. 00:18:25.727 --> 00:18:29.637 So, I guess, in a sense, my, my, my thought in theory, 00:18:29.967 --> 00:18:31.447 we'll see how it plays out. 00:18:31.447 --> 00:18:33.067 But in theory, the idea is. 00:18:34.672 --> 00:18:40.922 If I could, instead of, instead of just using my product skills, design 00:18:40.922 --> 00:18:45.412 and code skills to just build and ship SAS products, maybe use those 00:18:45.412 --> 00:18:49.042 skills to, uh, teach those skills. 00:18:49.482 --> 00:18:52.392 And it's also given me an opportunity to learn a lot more. 00:18:52.412 --> 00:18:55.472 Like one of the, one of the frustrating things over the last couple of years. 00:18:55.817 --> 00:19:00.837 With clarity flow is clarity flow is the only product that I ever work on. 00:19:01.537 --> 00:19:05.707 So like it's still on rails, six rails, rails is up to seven. 00:19:05.707 --> 00:19:06.937 They're coming out with eight soon. 00:19:07.557 --> 00:19:12.537 So, but I don't have a reason to go learn the latest greatest stuff because. 00:19:13.047 --> 00:19:16.217 It's, there's not a business decision to upgrade our code base right now. 00:19:16.817 --> 00:19:21.497 Same thing with so many other tooling out there, whether it's, I mean, you 00:19:21.497 --> 00:19:23.847 know, I, I'm big into like tailwind. 00:19:23.847 --> 00:19:26.307 I'm, I use different JavaScript frameworks. 00:19:26.407 --> 00:19:30.527 I, I even hack around and figma quite a bit, but like, I'm by no means an expert. 00:19:31.127 --> 00:19:35.407 And so if I'm, if part of my task in this new business is. 00:19:36.037 --> 00:19:40.587 Is teach, teach a lesson on using Figma or teach a lesson on, on 00:19:40.597 --> 00:19:44.967 setting up a new app using Laravel that, that, that's an opportunity 00:19:44.967 --> 00:19:46.257 for me to spend a week and learn it. 00:19:47.117 --> 00:19:49.647 And get up to speed on the, on the latest stuff and then teach it, 00:19:49.927 --> 00:19:53.227 you know, so I'm sort of excited for that kind of, kind of cycle. 00:19:54.707 --> 00:19:58.587 Matt: I want to talk about the, the idea of, of doing all this 00:20:00.307 --> 00:20:01.947 with your founder's hat on. 00:20:02.017 --> 00:20:06.487 And as we wrap up this first episode, I want to talk about it. 00:20:07.927 --> 00:20:09.757 Why are founders so bad at this? 00:20:11.157 --> 00:20:15.797 And get your opinion on that quickly, you know If if you've never heard me 00:20:15.877 --> 00:20:20.417 talk on a podcast before I ran a podcast called matt report did it for 10 years? 00:20:20.507 --> 00:20:24.937 Covered wordpress entrepreneurship started it when I was running an agency 00:20:24.947 --> 00:20:30.522 back when I met brian and it was a huge sales vehicle for me because And I 00:20:30.622 --> 00:20:33.722 mean, back then, we're talking 10 years ago, there were no WordPress podcasts. 00:20:33.722 --> 00:20:37.132 Podcasts were kind of just getting mainstream back then. 00:20:37.712 --> 00:20:43.322 And when I was going up against, again, the early days of WordPress 00:20:43.322 --> 00:20:46.132 agencies, I mean, there was a lot of business to be had. 00:20:46.172 --> 00:20:47.742 There wasn't a lot of agencies around. 00:20:48.132 --> 00:20:52.342 And if you could get in front of people and you did WordPress, you'd have 00:20:52.342 --> 00:20:54.862 to be a real loser not to get hired, 00:20:55.112 --> 00:20:55.352 Brian: right? 00:20:55.672 --> 00:21:01.142 Did you find the podcast was actually bringing new? 00:21:02.142 --> 00:21:03.947 Like, people are discovering you through that. 00:21:04.427 --> 00:21:04.667 So 00:21:04.667 --> 00:21:08.107 Matt: it's the same thing that I've been telling people forever with 00:21:08.107 --> 00:21:11.217 podcasting is it opened up opportunity. 00:21:11.497 --> 00:21:15.037 So when I got it, it didn't bring the short answer is it didn't bring customers 00:21:15.057 --> 00:21:20.417 in, but what it did for me was I was able to shoulder my way in front of 00:21:20.417 --> 00:21:25.157 the line of the WordPress community and get to meet people, which like I 00:21:25.157 --> 00:21:29.717 was meeting all the big agencies at the time and they were growing gang busters. 00:21:29.767 --> 00:21:29.907 You 00:21:29.907 --> 00:21:34.347 Brian: know, that, that is such a good point about podcasting specifically. 00:21:34.627 --> 00:21:37.497 it's not a, it's not easy to grow a podcast audience. 00:21:37.727 --> 00:21:42.317 It's not a platform where people will just discover you every day, but yeah, 00:21:42.317 --> 00:21:47.237 like through interviewing people in the industry you know, or the, the 00:21:47.237 --> 00:21:48.887 audience does grow kind of slowly. 00:21:48.887 --> 00:21:52.147 And so like, like what I find is that like, yeah, occasionally I get 00:21:52.147 --> 00:21:55.447 customers on my various businesses over the years who do listen to my 00:21:55.447 --> 00:22:00.157 podcast, but more often it's like a listener of my podcast invites 00:22:00.157 --> 00:22:01.717 me to go speak at their conference. 00:22:02.472 --> 00:22:08.772 Which, which then translates into more clients or I don't know, or I'm able to 00:22:08.772 --> 00:22:14.502 like message pretty well known people pretty easily because, because I've been 00:22:14.512 --> 00:22:16.102 out there on the airwaves for, for years, 00:22:16.142 --> 00:22:16.452 Matt: you know? 00:22:16.642 --> 00:22:16.882 Yeah. 00:22:16.882 --> 00:22:18.892 You have a body of work, it's sweat equity. 00:22:18.922 --> 00:22:21.472 I mean, it's literally people who just. 00:22:21.942 --> 00:22:26.212 It's almost like, I hate to say this, because it's a little untold secret of 00:22:26.232 --> 00:22:31.932 podcasting, is it's almost like headline reading, where you just read a headline 00:22:31.952 --> 00:22:33.722 and you go, Oh, the world's ending. 00:22:34.802 --> 00:22:35.172 Is it? 00:22:35.432 --> 00:22:35.842 I don't know. 00:22:35.842 --> 00:22:36.702 I didn't read the article. 00:22:36.702 --> 00:22:37.652 I just saw the headline. 00:22:37.982 --> 00:22:39.722 But, and same thing with podcasting. 00:22:39.742 --> 00:22:43.032 People go, Oh, you have a podcast and they look at it and they say, wow, 00:22:43.142 --> 00:22:48.562 this person's been talking for 200 plus episodes, 500 plus episodes, they must 00:22:48.562 --> 00:22:50.032 know what they're talking about, right? 00:22:50.032 --> 00:22:51.742 Without even clicking and listening, right? 00:22:52.042 --> 00:22:54.882 But it's that sweat equity that you continue to put in because 00:22:54.902 --> 00:22:58.702 even if people don't listen to it, they know you still do it. 00:22:58.912 --> 00:23:00.142 And they know how hard it is. 00:23:00.362 --> 00:23:02.162 So they're just like, he's still doing it. 00:23:02.472 --> 00:23:03.202 So kudos. 00:23:03.242 --> 00:23:06.592 And I trust that person or he or she, you know, et cetera, et cetera. 00:23:06.592 --> 00:23:09.492 But, you know, I built the Matterport for whatever, 10 plus years. 00:23:09.492 --> 00:23:13.822 fOr the last few years, it was probably doing in direct sale sponsorship 00:23:14.322 --> 00:23:16.542 about 50, 000 a year, right? 00:23:16.542 --> 00:23:21.282 Where I could just go, sell ads, supplement my full time job. 00:23:22.282 --> 00:23:27.217 And then, it was sort of towards end of Well, almost three or two or three 00:23:27.217 --> 00:23:32.537 years ago at this point where I was just like, Hey, WordPress is getting to, it 00:23:32.537 --> 00:23:37.977 covers WordPress, Matt report did, and WordPress is getting to this peak where 00:23:38.007 --> 00:23:39.427 I mean, this is COVID years, right? 00:23:39.427 --> 00:23:41.427 So WordPress was booming. 00:23:41.567 --> 00:23:43.047 Digital sales was booming. 00:23:43.287 --> 00:23:49.007 And I was like, Maybe I'll just sell that report because creatively, I was 00:23:49.017 --> 00:23:50.647 like, I want to do something else. 00:23:51.107 --> 00:23:54.357 I want to move off of this and I want to do something else. 00:23:54.377 --> 00:23:57.767 Meanwhile, there is a YouTube channel happening, which we can talk about later. 00:23:58.797 --> 00:24:00.047 I was like, let me just sell this thing. 00:24:00.387 --> 00:24:04.837 And because I was like, surely another brand wants a media brand 00:24:04.877 --> 00:24:08.107 like they want to build a media brand and I can just fast track them. 00:24:08.347 --> 00:24:10.577 I'll just sell you my body of work. 00:24:10.587 --> 00:24:11.237 You can have it. 00:24:11.237 --> 00:24:13.957 It's a trusted name, trusted podcast in the WordPress space. 00:24:14.477 --> 00:24:17.357 What's the biggest negative factor of me trying to do that? 00:24:17.617 --> 00:24:19.097 My name is in the podcast, right? 00:24:21.097 --> 00:24:25.617 Right, so I talked to a few people or is like, Hey, you can contract me. 00:24:25.627 --> 00:24:29.247 And I've produced podcasts before at my old gig. 00:24:29.247 --> 00:24:32.757 So there's ways to like transition hosts out and like change the creative angle. 00:24:32.987 --> 00:24:35.597 A lot of people didn't want to, you know, bite for that and it, and it didn't work. 00:24:35.597 --> 00:24:39.897 So I kind of just closed out the chapter of the Matt report 00:24:39.907 --> 00:24:42.437 silently as I, I launched. 00:24:42.827 --> 00:24:46.337 At the same time, I launched the WP Minute, which started as just a five 00:24:46.337 --> 00:24:50.657 minute recap of WordPress news in the industry every week, started just as a 00:24:50.657 --> 00:24:53.017 newsletter, transitioned to a podcast. 00:24:53.517 --> 00:25:00.087 And then just the inertia of me being like, okay, I can't just do this 00:25:00.087 --> 00:25:01.397 little five minute thing anymore. 00:25:01.917 --> 00:25:06.427 I gotta do back to another long form audio interview podcast. 00:25:06.457 --> 00:25:07.617 I need to turn it into a blog. 00:25:07.627 --> 00:25:08.937 I need to hire writers. 00:25:09.437 --> 00:25:12.037 I need to reinvest back into the, into the YouTube channel. 00:25:12.237 --> 00:25:13.037 Meanwhile, still the 00:25:13.207 --> 00:25:18.117 Brian: WP minutes sort of like evolved into a like a version 2. 00:25:18.387 --> 00:25:21.007 0 of Matt report without, without it being like with Matt at 00:25:21.007 --> 00:25:22.077 the center of the name of the 00:25:22.077 --> 00:25:22.477 Matt: brand. 00:25:23.197 --> 00:25:23.817 100%. 00:25:23.857 --> 00:25:26.427 Because what I learned was, people are just like, yeah, would 00:25:26.427 --> 00:25:29.517 love to buy something like this, but not with your name in it. 00:25:29.567 --> 00:25:32.707 I want to just get back to the founders, the founder side of this, because as 00:25:32.707 --> 00:25:38.857 we wrap it up for this episode, why do you think founders, let me put, 00:25:39.157 --> 00:25:40.417 I'll put you on the spot for a second. 00:25:41.517 --> 00:25:44.477 I've seen you, I've heard you talk about this with Jordan and now 00:25:44.477 --> 00:25:45.407 this is a couple of years ago. 00:25:45.417 --> 00:25:45.657 Brian: Yeah. 00:25:45.657 --> 00:25:47.647 And this is what I saw with. 00:25:47.852 --> 00:25:50.092 Clients that audience opts to like yeah, and you 00:25:50.092 --> 00:25:51.962 Matt: already know where you are I know you already know where I'm going with 00:25:51.962 --> 00:25:54.982 this right because I've heard you talk about this with Jordan and be like And 00:25:54.982 --> 00:25:58.682 you both have said this like We gotta get back on social media now You've been 00:25:58.682 --> 00:26:01.422 doing this now for a couple years and you've been doing really well with it 00:26:01.422 --> 00:26:04.882 But I remember you talking about like, ah, man, I you know, maybe shutting out 00:26:04.882 --> 00:26:09.152 the noise of twitter I'm, not like super building public, but this is years ago. 00:26:09.202 --> 00:26:09.582 Now. 00:26:09.582 --> 00:26:14.052 You're you're doing a lot better with it but i've also seen founders and 00:26:14.052 --> 00:26:19.962 work with founders who just Force Content and social and then it's like 00:26:19.962 --> 00:26:23.372 going to the gym in January Everyone's gonna start going to the gym and then 00:26:23.372 --> 00:26:24.262 they're gonna be like, ah screw this. 00:26:24.262 --> 00:26:24.742 I'm gonna back. 00:26:25.082 --> 00:26:28.012 Yeah, this sucks I'm gonna get back to eating pizza and then you never hear from 00:26:28.012 --> 00:26:32.097 these people again I mean what happened to build in public, you know, I think that 00:26:32.097 --> 00:26:34.752 Brian: I think well A few things. 00:26:34.752 --> 00:26:39.002 I think that if it's a, if, if we're talking about personal brands as as 00:26:39.002 --> 00:26:41.802 founders, that's a very personal thing. 00:26:41.902 --> 00:26:45.152 There's, there's a segment of founders who are just naturally 00:26:45.522 --> 00:26:46.892 drawn to that sort of thing. 00:26:47.082 --> 00:26:50.622 I've never, I'm actually super shy in real, in real life, like in person, 00:26:50.832 --> 00:26:52.742 like I'm not an outgoing, like light. 00:26:52.772 --> 00:26:54.262 I'm not the life of the party guy. 00:26:54.262 --> 00:26:56.002 I'm usually the quiet, quietest person 00:26:56.162 --> 00:26:56.762 Matt: at a party. 00:26:57.117 --> 00:27:00.337 Put a guitar in his hand and a microphone and a small little bar. 00:27:00.437 --> 00:27:01.427 I don't know. 00:27:01.447 --> 00:27:05.367 Brian: I'm much better in like close, close groups of friends, essentially. 00:27:05.577 --> 00:27:12.227 But this style of audience, like being on a microphone with, with like podcasting 00:27:13.227 --> 00:27:20.087 and Twitter and, and a little bit of like sharing on video and stuff like that does. 00:27:21.117 --> 00:27:22.907 Like I'm, I'm pretty comfortable in those mediums. 00:27:23.087 --> 00:27:26.647 But it's also just a personality thing, like, like wanting to share publicly. 00:27:26.647 --> 00:27:29.237 Like I know a lot of incredible founders. 00:27:29.237 --> 00:27:33.917 They built incredible businesses, but nobody knows who they are 00:27:33.917 --> 00:27:35.057 and they like it that way. 00:27:35.137 --> 00:27:38.347 They're just, they're just technical business entrepreneur, 00:27:38.357 --> 00:27:41.667 not technical in the code sense, but like they're just business minded. 00:27:41.667 --> 00:27:45.887 Like there's many ways to be successful as a, as a, in a business, right? 00:27:45.927 --> 00:27:47.467 You don't have to be a personal brand. 00:27:47.887 --> 00:27:50.847 And I think for certain types of businesses, like SAS, like 00:27:52.397 --> 00:27:56.147 audience, the personal audience is not generally the ticket. 00:27:56.257 --> 00:27:59.367 It could help in the early days, but it's usually not ideal. 00:28:00.117 --> 00:28:02.727 The so, so I think it, so you look at like someone like, 00:28:03.357 --> 00:28:05.477 like Jason Freed and DHH, like. 00:28:05.892 --> 00:28:10.222 Yeah, they built a big sass business with base camp, but they're also like naturally 00:28:10.222 --> 00:28:15.282 drawn to being, uh, it's like it's, I think it's their natural personalities 00:28:15.292 --> 00:28:16.932 to share the way in the way that they do. 00:28:16.942 --> 00:28:21.672 I don't think that they're scheduling tweets and, and like, I don't think 00:28:21.672 --> 00:28:24.892 they use like a content calendar to, you know, they, they probably have a 00:28:24.912 --> 00:28:26.252 thought and they push it out there. 00:28:26.302 --> 00:28:26.722 That's it. 00:28:26.972 --> 00:28:27.262 Matt: Yeah. 00:28:27.312 --> 00:28:29.992 Yeah, for me, I think it's like this trust factor. 00:28:30.812 --> 00:28:33.182 I grew up in my family owned a car dealership. 00:28:33.612 --> 00:28:34.612 a General Motors car. 00:28:34.632 --> 00:28:36.422 Well, it was a Mazda dealership. 00:28:36.442 --> 00:28:38.552 Then they, we purchased a General Motors dealership. 00:28:39.662 --> 00:28:42.702 And when you're in that environment, like not even General Motors 00:28:42.702 --> 00:28:44.132 wants to help you as a dealer. 00:28:45.142 --> 00:28:51.982 So there was always like this feeling of you have to be the one to get the word 00:28:51.982 --> 00:28:54.742 out, to get customers, to get attention. 00:28:55.232 --> 00:28:58.472 I don't care if you have a million dollars in ad spend. 00:28:58.967 --> 00:29:03.217 Or you're, you know, doing search engine optimization, you have to 00:29:03.227 --> 00:29:04.457 be the one to get it out there. 00:29:04.857 --> 00:29:08.807 And I think that's what sits inside of me, is like, I do this because 00:29:09.157 --> 00:29:13.157 I don't trust the algorithm, or ad spending, or anything like that. 00:29:13.307 --> 00:29:15.277 And I think that's why I'm drawn 00:29:15.277 --> 00:29:15.317 Brian: to it. 00:29:15.317 --> 00:29:19.437 I mean, I'm also starting to right now, I know this isn't like a real time podcast, 00:29:19.457 --> 00:29:23.857 but like, I, this speaks to like, there is this tension between Especially on 00:29:23.877 --> 00:29:28.207 Twitter, I think in, in our circles in this industry even the wider industry, 00:29:28.207 --> 00:29:33.827 whether it's like WordPress or SaaS or whatever it is, we treat Twitter like 00:29:33.867 --> 00:29:41.257 our industry water cooler, you know, we're, there's friendships firing up. 00:29:41.277 --> 00:29:44.047 I think you and I probably originally met through Twitter or something 00:29:44.107 --> 00:29:45.187 or something like it, right? 00:29:45.877 --> 00:29:51.397 But at the same time, Twitter is still a platform and you can, and maybe it's 00:29:51.397 --> 00:29:54.337 debatable, but maybe, maybe you should, maybe you shouldn't promote your own 00:29:54.337 --> 00:29:59.597 stuff on Twitter, but like, and there's also like an approach, a strategy to. 00:29:59.662 --> 00:30:06.602 Like drafting Twitter threads and, and having, and, you know, the 00:30:06.602 --> 00:30:09.692 stupid term like thread boy and like, 00:30:10.002 --> 00:30:11.632 Matt: you know, like, like that's B. 00:30:11.632 --> 00:30:11.842 O. 00:30:11.842 --> 00:30:12.102 I. 00:30:12.112 --> 00:30:12.422 Yeah, 00:30:12.422 --> 00:30:14.652 Brian: but like, but like some of that stuff does work. 00:30:14.652 --> 00:30:18.172 And, and, and maybe there's an argument argument to be made that like some of 00:30:18.172 --> 00:30:22.362 it can actually be high quality or it can resonate with the right people. 00:30:22.662 --> 00:30:25.942 And there's maybe an also an argument to be made that like just 00:30:25.952 --> 00:30:28.782 me and my circle of friends, we might hate that shit on Twitter. 00:30:28.782 --> 00:30:28.922 Yeah. 00:30:29.562 --> 00:30:32.482 But at the, at the same time, like maybe that works. 00:30:32.542 --> 00:30:35.552 So what's, what's my priority? 00:30:35.592 --> 00:30:37.842 Do I, do I just want to hang out with friends on Twitter or 00:30:37.842 --> 00:30:39.012 do I want to build a business? 00:30:39.122 --> 00:30:40.802 You know, I, I think it's attention. 00:30:40.832 --> 00:30:43.892 I don't know what the correct answer is on that, you know, but I. 00:30:44.527 --> 00:30:49.347 Again, like right now, while I'm thinking about what does it look like to build 00:30:49.347 --> 00:30:55.277 a media content business in terms of its operation, like, there has to be a 00:30:55.277 --> 00:30:59.407 strategy around, like, producing videos, releasing newsletters, and there's going 00:30:59.407 --> 00:31:02.937 to be some social media component to that with tweets and LinkedIn posts. 00:31:03.137 --> 00:31:08.697 So, you know, I think maybe my feed might look different in 2024 than it does now. 00:31:08.697 --> 00:31:09.257 I don't know yet. 00:31:09.257 --> 00:31:13.862 I'm, I'm still kind of exploring it, but, it's a, it's a weird question. 00:31:13.902 --> 00:31:14.972 I'm still trying to figure it out. 00:31:19.020 --> 00:31:20.890 Malcom (2): Now it's time for our last segment: "Are 00:31:20.890 --> 00:31:22.342 robots taking over the world?" 00:31:23.050 --> 00:31:25.230 Or as I like to say, "What are you doing with AI?" 00:31:27.536 --> 00:31:30.881 Brian: with AI I don't know how this is not going to be 00:31:30.881 --> 00:31:32.481 relevant for your audience, but 00:31:32.811 --> 00:31:37.181 so like these, these things that I'm putting on my ceiling, they're 00:31:37.181 --> 00:31:39.271 like 23 inches by 31 inches. 00:31:39.271 --> 00:31:43.291 They couldn't be exact squares for whatever reason, and it 00:31:43.291 --> 00:31:45.311 doesn't cover my ceiling exactly. 00:31:45.311 --> 00:31:49.951 So I used chat GPT to help me figure out how many panels in what 00:31:49.951 --> 00:31:55.191 configuration and how far from the edge of this awkwardly sized room. 00:31:55.986 --> 00:31:59.226 I started calculating it myself and I'm like, I'm way too confused right now. 00:31:59.226 --> 00:32:00.626 This is getting way too complicated. 00:32:01.216 --> 00:32:02.436 And I went to chat GPT. 00:32:02.436 --> 00:32:05.166 I was like, look, I've got this many panels, they're this size. 00:32:05.266 --> 00:32:06.646 My ceiling is this size. 00:32:06.846 --> 00:32:09.416 I want it to be sort of even around the whole, whole thing. 00:32:09.946 --> 00:32:11.176 Give me a, give me a plan. 00:32:11.376 --> 00:32:13.026 Like, what, what do I measure? 00:32:13.026 --> 00:32:14.596 How many panels am I putting where? 00:32:14.606 --> 00:32:15.716 And it, and it gave me a plan. 00:32:15.756 --> 00:32:17.016 And that's, that's what I'm doing right now. 00:32:21.347 --> 00:32:23.317 Malcom (2): Thanks for listening to Breaking Content. 00:32:23.507 --> 00:32:25.037 A limited series podcast. 00:32:25.202 --> 00:32:28.002 Produced, edited, and recorded by Matt Medeiros. 00:32:28.113 --> 00:32:29.703 Co-hosted by Brian Castle. 00:32:29.834 --> 00:32:33.834 Signup for the newsletter at www dot breaking content dot co 00:32:33.990 --> 00:32:37.620 Search for Breaking Content in your favorite podcast app and follow us. 00:32:37.746 --> 00:32:39.526 One more time for those of you in the back 00:32:39.668 --> 00:32:43.688 sign up for our newsletter at www dot breaking content dot co 00:32:43.812 --> 00:32:45.102 See you in the next episode.