Matt: Hey, Brian, welcome to breaking content.
Brian: Hey, Matt.
Yeah.
Great to connect with you as always.
I feel like, you know, you and I have done like the guest
interview thing for, for years.
I'm on your podcast.
You come on my podcast and it's kind of fun to to get on a new show and
sort of, I don't know, co host this thing or do a season or I don't know,
what, what are we doing here, Matt?
Matt: So here's, here's how I had this crazy idea come about.
Obviously I listened to your bootstrap web podcast and in the recent.
Either last episode or the episode before that, you started talking about
like some of these side endeavors that you wanted to go down with Jordan.
You were talking about how, you know, getting back into
the content creation game.
iS something that you're interested in, podcast video, you're currently redoing
your office to like build what I'm assuming, and we'll talk about this, is
almost like, probably like a video set, or a better looking set when you're on video
and I was like, there's a thread here.
That I really want to pull on because as a listener of the
show, I'm sure there's other folks Listening to bootstrap web going.
Hey, I love the running a business I love when Brian talks about coding and
and maybe like how you know using bench if you still even use bench I forget
what you're using these days, but like they love that side of it But for me,
I'm like, I want to know more about this content marketing thing that you're doing.
Mm hmm So I was like, hey Brian, let's do this limited Series podcast won't take a
lot of your time won't take a lot of my time and we'll do two episodes a month
Make it nice and easy for us and what I'm hoping this breaking content is for
is for creators and Founders right the creators that are out there doing this
creator thing I'm making a few hundred bucks a month and in YouTube Adsense,
and I'm selling sponsorship, but I need to get better So I'm going to tune in,
and there are founders out there of indie products, of other SaaS type companies,
of WordPress theme plugins, the ones that I spend a lot of time with, who are
like, got to supplement the business.
Need another, need another revenue stream.
How can I transfer that knowledge into content marketing?
So that's, that's a part of it.
And why I picked you, obviously is we've known each other for decades.
I was,
Brian: I was thinking about that the other day.
It's been a while.
Yeah.
Like 2010, 2009, 2010, something like that we met.
Matt: Yeah.
When you, when you talked about restaurant engine at WordCamp Providence, right.
So, you know, and I was like, there's gotta be other people like me who
listened to Brian and also want to just go deeper on the content marketing.
So when I pitched this idea to you and you were like, I don't have a lot of
time, what is this going to be about?
I'm like, I think bootstrap web, but really focused on the content
and content marketing side of it.
I,
Brian: I, I, I, I'm a fan of everything that you do, Matt, but also I think
this is really good timing because you're right, I'm I am really
spending a lot of time right now.
I have been for the last, like, two months or so going deep down the rabbit
hole of content creation and especially a lot of focus on YouTube and, like,
researching and planning and plotting.
And as you can see on video, I'm, my office is in disarray right now.
I'm I'm, I'm redesigning the whole, the whole layout, but yeah, and I'm excited
to do it with you because a part of this is I want to sort of pick your
brain about, especially the technical side of everything when it comes to
production you know, not just podcasting.
I know you're, you're, you know, you, you really know your way around
a video production stack as well.
So.
I'm really, really learning on that side of things.
And and you know, like literally this, this week, I'm starting to figure out like
which editing tools I want to get into.
I've had the part of the thing for me has always been, you know, you
were talking about like doing the content thing and being a founder
and working on other businesses.
That's still the case for me today.
I still run clarity flow as my, as my SAS business.
bUt I am, all this planning and plotting is toward shifting my focus in 2024 to
sort of making the content thing, like I'm thinking of it like a media brand
that's going to become my main business.
And Clarity Flow is, is still going to be running it.
I've got a small team working on it, but that's.
That's going to sort of be demoted a little bit to like a side business while
I focus most of my energy and resources on building up a YouTube channel and
audience again and and like in the past, I've I don't have a large audience,
but but what what sort of audience that I've grown over the last 1015
years of doing this has always been.
The audience thing for me has always been a side hustle, sort of like, like
a side like a byproduct of just being public about the, about the work that
I do on software and product high services and stuff and having the
podcast with Jordan and stuff like that.
It's just like.
Audience building stuff that I don't really put a whole lot of
effort into it sort of just happens.
But now I'm trying to put actual effort as if it's like my main business.
And, and I'm learning how to make it like a full time, like creator
media style business, you know?
And I'm in like the, like day zero of this right now.
I'm really pretty just
Matt: getting into it.
That's a perfect segue into today's topic, into the first episode, and I'm trying
to, again, we're getting, this is a, I was just saying this to Brian before we
hit record, literally spent two minutes just saying hi and then hitting record
so we could get in, so we could save time and just get in the meat of it, but this
is like a meta podcast, like Brian and I both working on our content, and Talking
about how I'm building this particular series, this limited series of content.
So we're going to shift into what I'm hoping is a series of evergreen episodes.
These are going to hopefully titled and the, what we're talking
about is going to be much more evergreen than it is in the moment.
So if you are a fan of bootstrap web, or if you listen to like my short form.
Podcast about wordpress.
It's literally about hey, what's happening this week.
Jordan and brian talk about catching up.
It's very in the moment I'm, hoping that these episodes are much more evergreen
these hierarchical topics hierarchical I don't know if that's the right word.
Where we're looking at Content marketing from a 50, 000 foot view.
The title I have written down for today's episode is why content marketing.
And that's what I want to transition into right now to talk about that.
But I do have a secret goal that I didn't mention from the preface
segment was my goal is to make this your favorite hour every single month.
That's my goal is to make this your favorite hour every month.
Let's talk about why content marketing.
Cause I didn't know this until, just now, you want to build a larger media brand.
Why?
Brian: Yeah.
You know, content marketing that term I feel like nobody really knows what
to, what, what is content marketing, but the way that I'm thinking about
it right now in terms of this new brand and then the name that I've
started to sort of use, and I got the domain name instrumental products.
That's going to be sort of like the brand name.
I mean, it's, it'll be built around my personal brand too, but that's
sort of the name and the domain that I, that I started working with.
Again, it's super early days right now, but, I'm thinking about
it like a company, like a media company and content is the product.
So it's not, it's not really content to me.
It's not content marketing.
It's not like we're using marketing to sell some other product.
The way that I'm thinking about it is like, this is the product.
There will be revenue streams.
And I'm thinking about those a little bit more like a stage two of this thing.
But stage one is just grow the audience.
And also to dial in what the content is, I have a, I have a rough concept,
which is around product strategy and helping people build a product
helping people some, I think a big focus will be like helping people
learn how to code for the first time.
If, if you want to bootstrap and build your own products
the way, the way that I sort of transitioned into that over the last.
I don't know if that's naturally going to be the final direction.
I'm going to sort of explore and do a lot of, a lot of YouTube videos, a lot
of content around exploring different.
Branches of this tree and then see what kind of resonates and
start to really dial it in.
But that and, you know, I, I've started to get really excited about this idea
of treating every piece of content, like every video on YouTube or every
weekly newsletter as a product like that in itself is a is a mini product like.
All right.
I'm planning a YouTube video.
What's, who is it for?
Who's the, who's the customer?
What's the value that they should receive from clicking play on this video?
How are we going to position it?
How are we going to package it?
You know, thumbnail, title, positioning, how are we going to hook them and how,
and how are we going to like deliver the value over the course of the video?
And that's, and, and I haven't even gotten into the weekly routine
yet of, of producing but that, that's going to start this month.
that's how I'm thinking about it.
Like, it's a content business, so I've, I've like, like fired up a
notion workspace and I'm like planning all the operations around, like.
What does it look like to produce a new video or maybe two videos and a newsletter
and some tweets and LinkedIn stuff and on a weekly basis ongoing, you know?
And
Matt: this is going, and you're going to build this content and promote
this content around the idea for folks to not just get clarity flow, right?
It's, it's not going to be part of that.
It's going to be for them to Yeah.
Brian: It's not yeah, this is a separate thing from ClarityFlow
separate business, separate it'll, it'll probably be a separate audience.
Like ClarityFlow is really, ClarityFlow, we, we do use content
marketing to market that SaaS product.
We've got a clarity flow, a limited podcast over there.
We've got SEO articles and stuff like that.
But it's, but also, but my personal brand is not really in clarity.
Like most, most people who find clarity flow today don't know who I am.
And and clarity flow is aimed at coaches.
It's primarily a tool for running a coaching business.
Whereas this, what I'm focused on now is going to be more for like product
founders, essentially, or people who, who want to, uh, build, transition to
a product space business, you know?
So you don't,
Matt: you don't see it as sort of like, I hate to.
Well, not hate, it's kind of a strong phrase, but I don't want to use his name,
like, you're not staking your Gary V.
claim here, right?
Like, here's Gary V.
Gary Vaynerchuk, here's the man, you know, the brand, and then he's got all
these little Products below him, right?
And you kind of see each one in the content that he puts out.
This isn't that for you, right?
Like this won't feed Clarity Flow or another product in the future.
It's going to be just the products that come from.
Yeah,
Brian: I'm basically way that I'm thinking about it right now is.
So for the past three years, I've had a single business
that's clarity flow before that.
I sold, I sold a bunch of businesses, but as of 20, like, end of 2020, 2021 is
when I went all in on just clarity flow.
And that's been the case for the last 3 years, starting in now and into 2024.
I'm going to two businesses, essentially, it's going to be this that I'm calling
instrumental products and clarity flow.
Yeah, and like, and like, high level, the way that I'm thinking about
instrumental products is kind of a couple of phased approaches like phase 1 is
grow the audience, you know, go from my.
Little organic circles of networks that I have right now to, I really
want to focus on growing a large audience of, of this type of like
product founders through primarily through YouTube and email newsletter.
And that's like phase 1 and, but it'll be like ongoing and then like phase 2,
maybe middle of next year or something is when I can start to look into.
All right, what are the potential revenue streams from this and the,
and I look and I don't even know what, what I'll land on, but there's
courses I could do, I could do courses.
Maybe, maybe a series of mini courses.
I could sell sponsorships on the YouTube channel.
I could sell sponsorships on my podcast, open threads.
You know, another concept that I'm, that I'm getting excited about, but
it's probably a further down the line would be like a membership product.
You know, so.
If you're in the community, in the audience of, of this brand, there'll
be like a private limited membership area, sort of a community, but maybe,
maybe also doing like live, like a live events component to that.
I've, I've been a fan of like, really small conferences that
can, that can play into it.
So, you know, just lots of like, potential ideas on, on where the revenue
could come from, but in the, but in the short term, I, I strategically,
I like the idea of like, just focus on audience and distribution first.
Like grow that as large as I possibly can through and the best
way that I know how to do that.
And to me, my favorite way to do that is to just create really great
content and not, not doing these hacks.
Like, there's nothing wrong with like SEO and cold outreach and as
we, we do those things for, for clarity flow for other products.
That's that can be very successful for, for any other products.
But.
What I'm excited about is the creative side of it is, is creating and
producing video and podcast content.
And, and when I, we can get into it, I'm sure, but like, one of the
reasons I'm, I'm really excited about YouTube specifically is that
the way that I see it, what I'm learning about right now is the more.
Effort that you put into quality and top and picking the right topics and
connecting with an audience YouTube sort of just rewards you with serving
your content up through the algorithm.
That's exciting to me, because then it's like, you're literally
rewarded for your creativity.
Whereas with like SEO or ads or cold outreach, it's just technical.
It's a little bit borderline hacky.
It's, you know, but it sort of works maybe, hopefully, I don't know.
And that that sort of that style of marketing I've always found pretty
frustrating and I've I've been challenged with that as a founder.
And my strength has always been more on the creative side.
So that's why for this business, after, after many businesses, I'm, I'm excited
to sort of dive in as like a media content
Matt: kind of company.
I, I swear to God, I, I, I don't have a crystal ball, but the
actual next bullet point I wrote down was creative fulfillment.
And it, it kind of just goes to show like.
When we take a step back and we say, why does, well, I mean, you have to
know the history of, of Brian and I get the history, we'll get into
the history of like my media brand as well in a moment, but I mean,
restaurant engine and then you had
Brian: Right after Restaurant Engine, I started, well, another product I
service, I started audience ops at the time that I sold Restaurant Engine,
but sort of overlapped with that.
I started the productized course,
Matt: but even before that you were doing consulting?
Yeah, like before,
Brian: like right after that?
Before even before Restaurant Engine.
I, I started as like a freelance web designer.
Yeah, from 2008 and I started Restaurant Engine, I think around 2011.
And, and I phased out my like freelance client work around 2012.
Matt: Yeah.
And then you got, but you got into selling a course for, for
processing and productizing before you got into audience ops, didn't
Brian: you?
Slightly before.
I think I launched productized in 2014.
Oh, okay.
And I launched audience ops I think in 2015.
Matt: So when we look at it, it's like, okay, why not?
Why not do, I mean I, I think I know the answer, but I'll
have you kind of define it.
creating a media brand.
You're looking at it as good content, serves me, serves a purpose.
It can help me grow a business.
It can serve like what an audience is looking for.
It's creative.
It's like the creative fulfillment.
I enjoy doing this and it's not writing lines of code.
Well, competing with a, with a market competitor,
Brian: leading market.
I'll be honest.
I have some open questions about whether or not I actually, is
it actually fulfilling for me?
Because they're.
Aspects of it that are really fulfilling the, the really creative parts.
So you can call it writing, but like just ideating on like new content
ideas which maybe takes the form of like writing a script or you know,
just connecting with an audience.
I really liked that.
I sort of enjoy getting on the mics or getting on camera, you
know, I, that I've become pretty comfortable with that editing.
I do like the creative side of it.
I also like getting technical, but I'm, I'm a little bit afraid that it's going
to become a grind and I'm, and I would like to outsource it at some point.
But I, in the early days, I want to learn how to do it really well.
I've, I've hacked through like screen flow and stuff for years, but I want to see.
So that's a, that's a learning area, but the coding and software is
something that I don't want to let go of, uh, because that's probably what
I love doing most creatively now.
Is designing and building software.
And that's what I spend most of my time on clarity flow doing is
working on the on the product.
And so that's why I want to make the focus of this new channel instrumental
products all about creating products.
So, I guess, in a sense, my, my, my thought in theory,
we'll see how it plays out.
But in theory, the idea is.
If I could, instead of, instead of just using my product skills, design
and code skills to just build and ship SAS products, maybe use those
skills to, uh, teach those skills.
And it's also given me an opportunity to learn a lot more.
Like one of the, one of the frustrating things over the last couple of years.
With clarity flow is clarity flow is the only product that I ever work on.
So like it's still on rails, six rails, rails is up to seven.
They're coming out with eight soon.
So, but I don't have a reason to go learn the latest greatest stuff because.
It's, there's not a business decision to upgrade our code base right now.
Same thing with so many other tooling out there, whether it's, I mean, you
know, I, I'm big into like tailwind.
I'm, I use different JavaScript frameworks.
I, I even hack around and figma quite a bit, but like, I'm by no means an expert.
And so if I'm, if part of my task in this new business is.
Is teach, teach a lesson on using Figma or teach a lesson on, on
setting up a new app using Laravel that, that, that's an opportunity
for me to spend a week and learn it.
And get up to speed on the, on the latest stuff and then teach it,
you know, so I'm sort of excited for that kind of, kind of cycle.
Matt: I want to talk about the, the idea of, of doing all this
with your founder's hat on.
And as we wrap up this first episode, I want to talk about it.
Why are founders so bad at this?
And get your opinion on that quickly, you know If if you've never heard me
talk on a podcast before I ran a podcast called matt report did it for 10 years?
Covered wordpress entrepreneurship started it when I was running an agency
back when I met brian and it was a huge sales vehicle for me because And I
mean, back then, we're talking 10 years ago, there were no WordPress podcasts.
Podcasts were kind of just getting mainstream back then.
And when I was going up against, again, the early days of WordPress
agencies, I mean, there was a lot of business to be had.
There wasn't a lot of agencies around.
And if you could get in front of people and you did WordPress, you'd have
to be a real loser not to get hired,
Brian: right?
Did you find the podcast was actually bringing new?
Like, people are discovering you through that.
So
Matt: it's the same thing that I've been telling people forever with
podcasting is it opened up opportunity.
So when I got it, it didn't bring the short answer is it didn't bring customers
in, but what it did for me was I was able to shoulder my way in front of
the line of the WordPress community and get to meet people, which like I
was meeting all the big agencies at the time and they were growing gang busters.
You
Brian: know, that, that is such a good point about podcasting specifically.
it's not a, it's not easy to grow a podcast audience.
It's not a platform where people will just discover you every day, but yeah,
like through interviewing people in the industry you know, or the, the
audience does grow kind of slowly.
And so like, like what I find is that like, yeah, occasionally I get
customers on my various businesses over the years who do listen to my
podcast, but more often it's like a listener of my podcast invites
me to go speak at their conference.
Which, which then translates into more clients or I don't know, or I'm able to
like message pretty well known people pretty easily because, because I've been
out there on the airwaves for, for years,
Matt: you know?
Yeah.
You have a body of work, it's sweat equity.
I mean, it's literally people who just.
It's almost like, I hate to say this, because it's a little untold secret of
podcasting, is it's almost like headline reading, where you just read a headline
and you go, Oh, the world's ending.
Is it?
I don't know.
I didn't read the article.
I just saw the headline.
But, and same thing with podcasting.
People go, Oh, you have a podcast and they look at it and they say, wow,
this person's been talking for 200 plus episodes, 500 plus episodes, they must
know what they're talking about, right?
Without even clicking and listening, right?
But it's that sweat equity that you continue to put in because
even if people don't listen to it, they know you still do it.
And they know how hard it is.
So they're just like, he's still doing it.
So kudos.
And I trust that person or he or she, you know, et cetera, et cetera.
But, you know, I built the Matterport for whatever, 10 plus years.
fOr the last few years, it was probably doing in direct sale sponsorship
about 50, 000 a year, right?
Where I could just go, sell ads, supplement my full time job.
And then, it was sort of towards end of Well, almost three or two or three
years ago at this point where I was just like, Hey, WordPress is getting to, it
covers WordPress, Matt report did, and WordPress is getting to this peak where
I mean, this is COVID years, right?
So WordPress was booming.
Digital sales was booming.
And I was like, Maybe I'll just sell that report because creatively, I was
like, I want to do something else.
I want to move off of this and I want to do something else.
Meanwhile, there is a YouTube channel happening, which we can talk about later.
I was like, let me just sell this thing.
And because I was like, surely another brand wants a media brand
like they want to build a media brand and I can just fast track them.
I'll just sell you my body of work.
You can have it.
It's a trusted name, trusted podcast in the WordPress space.
What's the biggest negative factor of me trying to do that?
My name is in the podcast, right?
Right, so I talked to a few people or is like, Hey, you can contract me.
And I've produced podcasts before at my old gig.
So there's ways to like transition hosts out and like change the creative angle.
A lot of people didn't want to, you know, bite for that and it, and it didn't work.
So I kind of just closed out the chapter of the Matt report
silently as I, I launched.
At the same time, I launched the WP Minute, which started as just a five
minute recap of WordPress news in the industry every week, started just as a
newsletter, transitioned to a podcast.
And then just the inertia of me being like, okay, I can't just do this
little five minute thing anymore.
I gotta do back to another long form audio interview podcast.
I need to turn it into a blog.
I need to hire writers.
I need to reinvest back into the, into the YouTube channel.
Meanwhile, still the
Brian: WP minutes sort of like evolved into a like a version 2.
0 of Matt report without, without it being like with Matt at
the center of the name of the
Matt: brand.
100%.
Because what I learned was, people are just like, yeah, would
love to buy something like this, but not with your name in it.
I want to just get back to the founders, the founder side of this, because as
we wrap it up for this episode, why do you think founders, let me put,
I'll put you on the spot for a second.
I've seen you, I've heard you talk about this with Jordan and now
this is a couple of years ago.
Brian: Yeah.
And this is what I saw with.
Clients that audience opts to like yeah, and you
Matt: already know where you are I know you already know where I'm going with
this right because I've heard you talk about this with Jordan and be like And
you both have said this like We gotta get back on social media now You've been
doing this now for a couple years and you've been doing really well with it
But I remember you talking about like, ah, man, I you know, maybe shutting out
the noise of twitter I'm, not like super building public, but this is years ago.
Now.
You're you're doing a lot better with it but i've also seen founders and
work with founders who just Force Content and social and then it's like
going to the gym in January Everyone's gonna start going to the gym and then
they're gonna be like, ah screw this.
I'm gonna back.
Yeah, this sucks I'm gonna get back to eating pizza and then you never hear from
these people again I mean what happened to build in public, you know, I think that
Brian: I think well A few things.
I think that if it's a, if, if we're talking about personal brands as as
founders, that's a very personal thing.
There's, there's a segment of founders who are just naturally
drawn to that sort of thing.
I've never, I'm actually super shy in real, in real life, like in person,
like I'm not an outgoing, like light.
I'm not the life of the party guy.
I'm usually the quiet, quietest person
Matt: at a party.
Put a guitar in his hand and a microphone and a small little bar.
I don't know.
Brian: I'm much better in like close, close groups of friends, essentially.
But this style of audience, like being on a microphone with, with like podcasting
and Twitter and, and a little bit of like sharing on video and stuff like that does.
Like I'm, I'm pretty comfortable in those mediums.
But it's also just a personality thing, like, like wanting to share publicly.
Like I know a lot of incredible founders.
They built incredible businesses, but nobody knows who they are
and they like it that way.
They're just, they're just technical business entrepreneur,
not technical in the code sense, but like they're just business minded.
Like there's many ways to be successful as a, as a, in a business, right?
You don't have to be a personal brand.
And I think for certain types of businesses, like SAS, like
audience, the personal audience is not generally the ticket.
It could help in the early days, but it's usually not ideal.
The so, so I think it, so you look at like someone like,
like Jason Freed and DHH, like.
Yeah, they built a big sass business with base camp, but they're also like naturally
drawn to being, uh, it's like it's, I think it's their natural personalities
to share the way in the way that they do.
I don't think that they're scheduling tweets and, and like, I don't think
they use like a content calendar to, you know, they, they probably have a
thought and they push it out there.
That's it.
Matt: Yeah.
Yeah, for me, I think it's like this trust factor.
I grew up in my family owned a car dealership.
a General Motors car.
Well, it was a Mazda dealership.
Then they, we purchased a General Motors dealership.
And when you're in that environment, like not even General Motors
wants to help you as a dealer.
So there was always like this feeling of you have to be the one to get the word
out, to get customers, to get attention.
I don't care if you have a million dollars in ad spend.
Or you're, you know, doing search engine optimization, you have to
be the one to get it out there.
And I think that's what sits inside of me, is like, I do this because
I don't trust the algorithm, or ad spending, or anything like that.
And I think that's why I'm drawn
Brian: to it.
I mean, I'm also starting to right now, I know this isn't like a real time podcast,
but like, I, this speaks to like, there is this tension between Especially on
Twitter, I think in, in our circles in this industry even the wider industry,
whether it's like WordPress or SaaS or whatever it is, we treat Twitter like
our industry water cooler, you know, we're, there's friendships firing up.
I think you and I probably originally met through Twitter or something
or something like it, right?
But at the same time, Twitter is still a platform and you can, and maybe it's
debatable, but maybe, maybe you should, maybe you shouldn't promote your own
stuff on Twitter, but like, and there's also like an approach, a strategy to.
Like drafting Twitter threads and, and having, and, you know, the
stupid term like thread boy and like,
Matt: you know, like, like that's B.
O.
I.
Yeah,
Brian: but like, but like some of that stuff does work.
And, and, and maybe there's an argument argument to be made that like some of
it can actually be high quality or it can resonate with the right people.
And there's maybe an also an argument to be made that like just
me and my circle of friends, we might hate that shit on Twitter.
Yeah.
But at the, at the same time, like maybe that works.
So what's, what's my priority?
Do I, do I just want to hang out with friends on Twitter or
do I want to build a business?
You know, I, I think it's attention.
I don't know what the correct answer is on that, you know, but I.
Again, like right now, while I'm thinking about what does it look like to build
a media content business in terms of its operation, like, there has to be a
strategy around, like, producing videos, releasing newsletters, and there's going
to be some social media component to that with tweets and LinkedIn posts.
So, you know, I think maybe my feed might look different in 2024 than it does now.
I don't know yet.
I'm, I'm still kind of exploring it, but, it's a, it's a weird question.
I'm still trying to figure it out.
Malcom (2): Now it's time for our last segment: "Are
robots taking over the world?"
Or as I like to say, "What are you doing with AI?"
Brian: with AI I don't know how this is not going to be
relevant for your audience, but
so like these, these things that I'm putting on my ceiling, they're
like 23 inches by 31 inches.
They couldn't be exact squares for whatever reason, and it
doesn't cover my ceiling exactly.
So I used chat GPT to help me figure out how many panels in what
configuration and how far from the edge of this awkwardly sized room.
I started calculating it myself and I'm like, I'm way too confused right now.
This is getting way too complicated.
And I went to chat GPT.
I was like, look, I've got this many panels, they're this size.
My ceiling is this size.
I want it to be sort of even around the whole, whole thing.
Give me a, give me a plan.
Like, what, what do I measure?
How many panels am I putting where?
And it, and it gave me a plan.
And that's, that's what I'm doing right now.
Malcom (2): Thanks for listening to Breaking Content.
A limited series podcast.
Produced, edited, and recorded by Matt Medeiros.
Co-hosted by Brian Castle.
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