1 00:00:00,850 --> 00:00:02,550 Tiffany: Nah, Reddit's gone, Reddit's out. 2 00:00:02,880 --> 00:00:03,600 Sorry guys. 3 00:00:04,080 --> 00:00:04,950 Alexis: No comment. 4 00:00:05,040 --> 00:00:05,490 Okay. 5 00:00:05,490 --> 00:00:05,970 Well... 6 00:00:06,420 --> 00:00:07,890 Tiffany: Welcome to Probably Nothing. 7 00:00:07,920 --> 00:00:13,390 I'm TZ, founder and CEO of Islands, a new social NFT community platform. 8 00:00:13,570 --> 00:00:19,820 Alexis: I'm Alexis Ohanian, co-founder of Reddit, former executive chairman, and now founder of Seven Seven Six. 9 00:00:20,160 --> 00:00:21,180 That's a venture capital firm. 10 00:00:21,900 --> 00:00:22,770 We'll get better at this. 11 00:00:23,369 --> 00:00:25,840 And we've got, Justin! 12 00:00:26,690 --> 00:00:29,220 Justin: I'm Justin, I'm a artist. 13 00:00:29,534 --> 00:00:33,464 I'm a founder of SaveArtSpace and CEO of Quantum Art. 14 00:00:34,614 --> 00:00:35,405 Alexis: Hell yes. 15 00:00:35,515 --> 00:00:36,794 Justin: Hell yeah. 16 00:00:37,035 --> 00:00:43,415 Tiffany: Could you share a quick summary about yourself and Twin Flames, SaveArtSpace, Quantum Art? 17 00:00:43,415 --> 00:00:48,135 You got a lot of projects going on for those who don't know you and your story. 18 00:00:49,394 --> 00:00:50,295 Justin: My name is Justin. 19 00:00:50,835 --> 00:00:52,485 I'm a photographer mostly. 20 00:00:52,485 --> 00:00:55,245 And I do paintings and video and sculpture. 21 00:00:55,245 --> 00:00:58,595 I do a lot of mixed media art, photography based mostly. 22 00:00:58,765 --> 00:01:07,875 I do a lot of public art with my nonprofit, SaveArtSpace, and we transform billboards in the public space into art spaces for artists. 23 00:01:07,905 --> 00:01:16,725 Getting rid of ADs and putting up art and getting the message out there to support the people and artists who live in the communities that these billboards takeover. 24 00:01:16,815 --> 00:01:26,940 Quantum Art is our new NFT photo platform that we're launching November 2nd, which may or may not be out by the time this podcast goes live. 25 00:01:27,431 --> 00:01:39,953 There's a lot to talk about depending on what kind of questions you guys have, but mostly I'm here as an artist and, you know, Entrepreneur, thanks to the NFT space, and because of the NFT space. 26 00:01:39,953 --> 00:01:45,813 If that's what we're talking about in this podcast, I've had a lot of success just this year alone. 27 00:01:45,922 --> 00:01:50,362 From the 15 years I've been an artist professionally and I'm only 29 years old. 28 00:01:50,962 --> 00:01:51,672 Alexis: 29? 29 00:01:51,672 --> 00:01:51,732 Justin: Yeah. 30 00:01:51,732 --> 00:01:52,972 Alexis: That's great man. 31 00:01:52,972 --> 00:01:55,132 Alright, so you clearly been doing art for very long time. 32 00:01:55,852 --> 00:01:57,050 Since you were a kid. 33 00:01:57,410 --> 00:02:00,100 What kind of stuff were you doing before NFTs? 34 00:02:00,100 --> 00:02:06,415 You talked about some of the different media you used and then how did you go from that to first learning about NFTs? 35 00:02:06,995 --> 00:02:12,395 Justin: Man, I've been an artist practically my whole life, a skateboarder also. 36 00:02:12,635 --> 00:02:17,555 Art and skateboarding went hand in hand for me when I started growing up, mostly photography. 37 00:02:17,845 --> 00:02:26,520 Being interested in people, animals, and plants, and then going to art school at SVA in 2010 to 2014. 38 00:02:26,520 --> 00:02:29,490 I really focused in more on people and portraits. 39 00:02:29,730 --> 00:02:35,690 And you could see when I started at school, I was like a street photographer and I would shoot from like this far away. 40 00:02:35,990 --> 00:02:40,230 But as I get closer to- by the time I graduated, I'd be like this close. 41 00:02:40,800 --> 00:02:44,790 And, I could quote a really good photographer that says, "The closer you are, the better the photo." 42 00:02:45,270 --> 00:02:48,330 So for me, I like shooting people. 43 00:02:48,330 --> 00:02:53,790 I like connecting with people and through photography, it's kind of the way I do connect with people through the art I make. 44 00:02:53,880 --> 00:02:56,435 And so, I mostly started with photography. 45 00:02:56,465 --> 00:03:00,425 You know, when I'm tired of shooting photos, I paint, I collage. 46 00:03:00,485 --> 00:03:01,835 I do a lot of silk screening. 47 00:03:02,015 --> 00:03:09,125 I'm very inspired by silk screening and the amount of work that can be processed in such a short amount of time. 48 00:03:09,395 --> 00:03:15,318 Even though the process takes a lot of time when you're making the screens and getting everything formatted. 49 00:03:15,775 --> 00:03:22,555 So there's a lot of play involved when it's not photography, but it's very serious and playful when I'm creating in photo. 50 00:03:22,585 --> 00:03:29,485 But, the projects are very serious and are very thought out, and I only do like one major project at a time. 51 00:03:29,485 --> 00:03:36,025 And that's why I have four major projects out right now, and more to come. 52 00:03:36,595 --> 00:03:39,675 Alexis: And then how did you first learn about NFTs? 53 00:03:40,345 --> 00:03:43,255 Justin: So, you know, I've been into crypto since 2012. 54 00:03:43,315 --> 00:03:46,685 My roommate was on Silk Road and I was watching and observing. 55 00:03:47,195 --> 00:03:55,488 And at that time I was shooting a lot, so I didn't have time to spend time on the internet, but I was just learning through him when he was buying acid and shrooms and stuff from Germany. 56 00:03:55,698 --> 00:04:00,648 And so I was learning about Bitcoin then, and, you know, I wasn't buying it. 57 00:04:00,648 --> 00:04:03,258 I was just watching and learning, observing. 58 00:04:03,318 --> 00:04:06,138 And then in 2017, I really got into Bitcoin. 59 00:04:07,023 --> 00:04:08,943 As everyone else did before the crash. 60 00:04:08,973 --> 00:04:12,003 And then I learned my first lesson in getting wrecked. 61 00:04:12,354 --> 00:04:18,924 And then, you know, when the pandemic started in 2020, I went back into Bitcoin again and was like, "I'm going to invest." 62 00:04:18,924 --> 00:04:26,934 You know, like what better time to invest in myself and as an artist than putting money aside in something that can potentially grow. 63 00:04:26,934 --> 00:04:29,814 And then, you know, I got early in March, 2020. 64 00:04:30,699 --> 00:04:33,795 I didn't really understand Ethereum, and I was kind of like, what is this crap? 65 00:04:33,855 --> 00:04:34,705 I don't understand it. 66 00:04:34,705 --> 00:04:36,505 Because it didn't have utility to me. 67 00:04:36,595 --> 00:04:44,065 Like Bitcoin has the store of value explanation, but when I learned store of value, right? 68 00:04:45,015 --> 00:04:47,305 That's what people say now institutions are buying it. 69 00:04:47,305 --> 00:04:50,485 Then that means it's valuable because money is involved, right, lot of money. 70 00:04:50,515 --> 00:04:56,745 So, I actually- my mind changed instantly when NFTs happened with Ethereum. 71 00:04:56,745 --> 00:05:18,175 And then I was like, I had my aha moment of like, okay, I understand a theory of now where before I didn't, and now I do because it's smart contracts that make it very liquid and valuable, and also programmable, which is what we're seeing now in today with smart art and smart contracts and what people are developing through NFTs. 72 00:05:18,745 --> 00:05:26,590 So, I got in around February of 2021, but there was a lot of Clubhouse talk in January and that's all that there was. 73 00:05:27,040 --> 00:05:27,850 Alexis: That's right. 74 00:05:27,850 --> 00:05:28,110 Tiffany: Yep. 75 00:05:28,110 --> 00:05:31,830 Justin: And so, and so if you were on Clubhouse, you were talking NFTs with everybody. 76 00:05:31,830 --> 00:05:37,350 And this is pretty much the place where art met tech, where before that was like, "Where do I meet tech people?" 77 00:05:37,350 --> 00:05:39,330 And I'm sure the tech people were like, "Where do I meet artists?" 78 00:05:39,370 --> 00:05:43,020 Like, Clubhouse was where the conversations were had. 79 00:05:43,020 --> 00:05:44,700 Everyone was trying to learn about NFTs. 80 00:05:44,700 --> 00:05:46,680 Everyone was educating people about NFTs. 81 00:05:47,110 --> 00:05:53,780 And then, and I've said this on other podcasts, like, I tried using Rarible for my first mint and I was completely like pushed away. 82 00:05:54,450 --> 00:05:57,340 I felt like I got robbed and I lost like 120 bucks. 83 00:05:57,340 --> 00:06:01,390 And then at that time I only had like $250 in my bank account. 84 00:06:01,480 --> 00:06:06,820 So it was like half of my money is gone from this and then nothing got minted. 85 00:06:06,910 --> 00:06:09,260 So I was like I lost money. 86 00:06:09,370 --> 00:06:22,750 And then I was, I was lucky enough to be friends with people like G Money and people like Alex Masmej and I say this in other podcasts too, but they really taught me tech wise and strategy wise how to enter the space. 87 00:06:22,780 --> 00:06:26,600 You know, I was taught by Alex how to get a MetaMask and mint on OpenSea. 88 00:06:26,620 --> 00:06:29,990 And I was taught by G Money on actually what to mint and how to mint. 89 00:06:30,010 --> 00:06:37,015 So it was like because of those two people I was very educated and brought into the space with pretty much the top people in the space. 90 00:06:37,045 --> 00:06:38,395 Collector and tech wise. 91 00:06:39,165 --> 00:06:41,555 Alexis: What were the insights about how to mint and what to mint? 92 00:06:41,635 --> 00:06:47,015 Justin: I was already working on Twin Flames since 2017 and 2018. 93 00:06:47,297 --> 00:06:50,567 I finished it, so it was a year that it took me to shoot. 94 00:06:50,657 --> 00:06:55,397 And then by that time I was like programmed to like, okay, this is the project that I'm focusing on. 95 00:06:55,397 --> 00:06:58,697 And I only focus on major projects at once. 96 00:06:58,697 --> 00:07:02,087 And if you look at my website, you'll see my four major projects. 97 00:07:02,117 --> 00:07:04,997 So I'm very focused when I'm shooting, and when I'm creating. 98 00:07:05,087 --> 00:07:08,177 And so from 2017 and 2018, I shot the project. 99 00:07:08,447 --> 00:07:11,597 2019, I made a book and I had an exhibition. 100 00:07:11,627 --> 00:07:13,997 By 2021, I was still promoting it. 101 00:07:14,027 --> 00:07:21,927 My goal was to get it in the museum, because I see myself as an artist and, you know, some people go to art school to be a Gucci photographer. 102 00:07:22,137 --> 00:07:24,927 Myself, I went to make a name for myself in the art world. 103 00:07:24,927 --> 00:07:31,227 And that's how I went to school thinking of who I'd be in the world of being an artist and being exhibited all around the world. 104 00:07:31,227 --> 00:07:33,237 And that's what I wanted to create a project to do that. 105 00:07:33,267 --> 00:07:37,887 So Twin Flames came from a really deep place in my heart to honor my twin sister. 106 00:07:38,627 --> 00:07:47,897 And I do all their projects to honor family members or people who've passed away and really utilize art as a totem of memorial, respect and honor. 107 00:07:47,897 --> 00:07:50,117 And I'm always going to be that way when I create stuff. 108 00:07:50,607 --> 00:08:07,022 So by the time we were talking NFTs- for me, it was like second nature to put Twin Flames up, because it's been something I was working on for four years, and I already knew how to list it because it's just binary in the sense that it was chronological and how I shot it. 109 00:08:07,022 --> 00:08:10,902 And it was chronological how I minted it and posted it on Instagram and my website. 110 00:08:11,147 --> 00:08:15,617 So I just used that format and minted it because I've been working with it for so long. 111 00:08:15,857 --> 00:08:17,117 It wasn't something new. 112 00:08:17,297 --> 00:08:20,087 It was just a new place for the work to live. 113 00:08:20,417 --> 00:08:41,507 And ironically, like it was the best place the work can live because people who weren't in my audience from the art world were seeing it in the crypto space, and Twitter and everyone in the tech world really responded to it and received it in a different way than the art world did, which really like changed my life, because I was bringing people into the art world from the tech space and it was different. 114 00:08:41,537 --> 00:08:45,808 It was a different reception from what I was- what I've known. 115 00:08:45,838 --> 00:08:48,268 And I'm really grateful that I'm here now because of that. 116 00:08:49,018 --> 00:08:51,718 Alexis: I mean, you're being very modest about it. 117 00:08:51,718 --> 00:08:56,953 It is quite an understatement, I mean, the reception was tremendous! 118 00:08:57,433 --> 00:09:00,523 Like the floor, what's the floor price right now? 119 00:09:00,523 --> 00:09:00,913 The lowest- 120 00:09:00,953 --> 00:09:02,593 Tiffany: The floor is like 200 ETH. 121 00:09:02,683 --> 00:09:05,263 Justin was telling me to get in at 40 or so. 122 00:09:05,683 --> 00:09:07,303 I remember him messaging me. 123 00:09:08,060 --> 00:09:13,640 But what was the strategy around- what was the strategy around having 100 items? 124 00:09:13,670 --> 00:09:18,080 So Twin Flames is a collection of a hundred twin portraits, and a hundred items. 125 00:09:18,530 --> 00:09:20,840 And how did you think about the rollout as well? 126 00:09:20,840 --> 00:09:23,690 Whether it was auctioning each one at a time. 127 00:09:24,410 --> 00:09:27,830 Dropping all of them at the same time, dropping them in batches. 128 00:09:27,860 --> 00:09:29,060 What was your thinking around that? 129 00:09:29,060 --> 00:09:38,300 Because, you're very early, you're like the first NFT photographer in the space, who's really made a name for yourself and your two auction houses, and a lot more. 130 00:09:38,300 --> 00:09:43,390 Right, so I know you kind of pioneered this whole space from that collection. 131 00:09:44,470 --> 00:09:52,490 Justin: It's nothing different than what I was already doing and I'm thinking and more so like what I was originally thinking when I had the physical one of ones. 132 00:09:52,510 --> 00:09:59,710 Because, everything I do is pretty much a one of one, if it's like the actual art object, but if it's an addition it's like a one of three or one of five. 133 00:09:59,920 --> 00:10:03,460 So with Twin Flames, it was a one of one, dark room, seed print. 134 00:10:03,500 --> 00:10:11,365 So I shoot with film and everything is analog, and for my work to be on the blockchain is pretty much opposite of what photography was. 135 00:10:11,365 --> 00:10:17,555 Like analog, printing in the dark room, getting film, like- but to live on the blockchain is so beautiful. 136 00:10:17,645 --> 00:10:20,975 Like it really connects these two worlds of past and future. 137 00:10:21,275 --> 00:10:25,835 And so when I listed them, I was thinking like this. 138 00:10:25,875 --> 00:10:27,935 And, G Money really helped me a lot. 139 00:10:28,205 --> 00:10:37,165 So when I first approached G Money, he knew that I was trying to sell the project physical form before NFTs pre NFTs. 140 00:10:37,505 --> 00:10:43,815 One of one, darkroom, seed print, 16x20, and I would only sell it as a set of a hundred. 141 00:10:44,035 --> 00:10:51,795 So that equals a hundred thousand dollars because my fair market price at that time in galleries were a thousand dollars a print for one of one. 142 00:10:51,875 --> 00:10:56,015 And I did not want to sell the projects piece by piece, this thing needs to be together. 143 00:10:56,015 --> 00:10:58,325 It's a community, it's a family, it's a unit. 144 00:10:58,415 --> 00:11:00,275 I look at this whole project as a whole. 145 00:11:00,455 --> 00:11:15,249 When you see it in the physical form, like if you saw the Christie's photos, you see the magnitude of the work when it's installed, like, yes, one picture is something, but when you have a hundred pictures together, they respond to one another, it creates this sensational sublime feeling. 146 00:11:15,446 --> 00:11:19,286 Just like you could see the whole year in one lens in one instant. 147 00:11:19,526 --> 00:11:21,506 And I like to create a lot of projects like that. 148 00:11:21,506 --> 00:11:32,366 And if you look at my website, you'll see, like every project I do is either a 365 project, or our project with a serious theme that creates a volume to have an impression by. 149 00:11:32,426 --> 00:11:34,106 And I don't make one on ones. 150 00:11:34,106 --> 00:11:38,346 I really work with big projects when I do series. 151 00:11:38,636 --> 00:11:42,536 So by the time I minted it, I was being honest to my price. 152 00:11:42,536 --> 00:11:46,496 And at the time 0.55 ETH was the listing price. 153 00:11:46,496 --> 00:11:49,106 And I listed all hundred just to have them up. 154 00:11:49,106 --> 00:12:04,466 And, you know, they were all up for sale, and G Money was really the person who was like, don't sell me the physical thing, save that for the museum, institution, the centralized art world, and then sell me the NFTs, the de-centralized for the collector. 155 00:12:04,486 --> 00:12:13,246 So in a way, when you think of Twin Flames, there's a duality, there's the physical, and there's the digital, there's the hundred physicals that are together for the institution. 156 00:12:13,276 --> 00:12:18,176 And then there's the hundred decentralized digital NFTs for the collectors. 157 00:12:18,326 --> 00:12:22,076 So it's like the people could have it, and the powers that be could have. 158 00:12:22,136 --> 00:12:23,396 And like that's the duality. 159 00:12:23,396 --> 00:12:27,866 And it could only work with Twin Flames, like, I couldn't do that with another project because of the concepts. 160 00:12:28,376 --> 00:12:33,116 So, I listed everything at a thousand bucks and then I sold that in three days. 161 00:12:33,116 --> 00:12:38,236 Thanks to crypto, Twitter, Discord, and everyone who was there supporting me. 162 00:12:39,216 --> 00:12:39,566 Tiffany: Wow. 163 00:12:40,476 --> 00:12:47,576 And now you have 83 unique owners, which is incredible considering the price of a Twin Flames these days. 164 00:12:47,666 --> 00:12:54,566 Justin: I mean, the whole strategy for me was- because when I sold them all, there was 50 or like 45 owners. 165 00:12:54,776 --> 00:13:01,316 And for me, in my mind, it was, this was my thought process, like, I'm only focusing this whole year on Twin Flames. 166 00:13:01,316 --> 00:13:06,456 Like, I'm not going to mint a whole new project because I want to upkeep and take care of my secondary market. 167 00:13:06,576 --> 00:13:20,056 I want to utilize this royalties tool that NFTs have given artists and put that to the test and also create a large distribution of my work to many collectors instead of just one person having 15 or another, having six. 168 00:13:20,056 --> 00:13:22,156 Like, I really worked with my collectors. 169 00:13:22,696 --> 00:13:27,776 I got one guy down from 15 to 3 because he believes in me and he believes in the project. 170 00:13:28,096 --> 00:13:31,831 And he understood the value and importance of getting it into other people's hands. 171 00:13:32,371 --> 00:13:37,931 So that was my whole marketing strategy of keeping up the secondary to get it to the point where it's 200 ETH. 172 00:13:37,951 --> 00:13:44,461 Like, I had a broker a lot of deals and meet a lot of people and get a lot of people interested and do a lot of work. 173 00:13:44,491 --> 00:13:46,141 Like, it wasn't just happening by itself. 174 00:13:46,171 --> 00:13:48,241 I was, like TZ said, I was working. 175 00:13:48,331 --> 00:13:55,341 I was connecting with people, gauging interest in my work, just like a normal artist would do in the regular art world at gallary shows. 176 00:13:55,361 --> 00:13:56,261 It's nothing different. 177 00:13:56,471 --> 00:14:00,101 Tiffany: So you probably personally know all of these owners, right? 178 00:14:00,131 --> 00:14:04,151 Like all of your collectors owners, people in your community, in your Discord. 179 00:14:04,271 --> 00:14:04,991 Justin: A hundred percent. 180 00:14:04,991 --> 00:14:10,871 Like that's the most important part to me is like, who are these people spending $700,000 on me. 181 00:14:10,871 --> 00:14:12,551 Like, I want to hang out with them. 182 00:14:12,551 --> 00:14:13,781 I want to take them to dinner. 183 00:14:13,781 --> 00:14:15,611 I want to get to know that I'm going to tell them the story. 184 00:14:15,611 --> 00:14:17,801 Like, I don't want to treat this like it's transactional. 185 00:14:17,801 --> 00:14:26,486 I want to treat this like you have a friend forever, and not only that I'm going to reward you with like more upcoming art stuff and access. 186 00:14:26,486 --> 00:14:38,696 So it's like for me, money is just a bonus, but for me, it's like I get to meet people who not only invest in me, but my businesses that I'm creating out of this and, you know, building a community around, pushing the space forward and pushing the culture. 187 00:14:38,992 --> 00:14:54,075 Alexis: I want to dig in on that with the community building front, because I think right now, a lot of folks directly can connect success to signs of community, and really choose breadth or at least aspire to breadth instead of depth. 188 00:14:54,085 --> 00:14:57,185 And you've clearly gone with the ladder and it's clearly working out really well. 189 00:14:57,685 --> 00:14:59,345 How are you approaching it? 190 00:14:59,345 --> 00:15:00,815 Like practically speaking, right? 191 00:15:00,905 --> 00:15:02,975 You just live in the Discord specifically? 192 00:15:02,975 --> 00:15:06,455 Like how many hours do you spend engaging with members of your community? 193 00:15:06,455 --> 00:15:13,745 Where, where are lessons you've learned over these months of doing it where you're like, okay, I'm a much smarter about this now, you know, early on, I was really- 194 00:15:13,745 --> 00:15:14,315 Justin: I'm still learning man. 195 00:15:14,315 --> 00:15:15,455 Alexis: Was it all about the DMs? 196 00:15:15,515 --> 00:15:16,385 Justin: Still learning. 197 00:15:16,475 --> 00:15:18,705 Alexis: Okay, but what have you learned already? 198 00:15:18,705 --> 00:15:21,995 Because what you've already accomplished is something that I think a lot of people listening want. 199 00:15:22,305 --> 00:15:23,205 We want to learn from it. 200 00:15:23,205 --> 00:15:24,225 Justin: I will say this. 201 00:15:24,465 --> 00:15:25,755 It's not only my art. 202 00:15:25,965 --> 00:15:32,835 It's also what I've contributed to the space at large through SaveArtSpace, beyond myself, to be successful in the space. 203 00:15:32,835 --> 00:15:37,155 Whatever that means is you've got to go beyond what you create and create more for others. 204 00:15:37,215 --> 00:15:41,665 But for me, it was easy because I had SaveArtSpace and I was working with the Cryptopunks. 205 00:15:41,955 --> 00:15:46,695 And for me to get my name out there more and build trust in the community with the Cryptopunk community. 206 00:15:47,155 --> 00:15:51,565 Who were people who spend minimum a hundred ETH on an NFT. 207 00:15:51,785 --> 00:15:54,905 So it was like built in that I was talking to the right people. 208 00:15:55,085 --> 00:16:01,815 And not only that I was pushing their culture forward with putting Cryptopunks on billboards with G Money around the world. 209 00:16:01,815 --> 00:16:13,465 So it's like doing that work accelerated my personal work, because it's both me as the artist and my art too, that reflects who I am and the value I put out in this space. 210 00:16:13,495 --> 00:16:15,265 And I think everyone needs to think about that. 211 00:16:15,265 --> 00:16:17,605 It's not just this beautiful picture I took. 212 00:16:17,875 --> 00:16:19,735 It's who you are and what you contribute. 213 00:16:20,065 --> 00:16:25,915 I think ultimately just like any artist in the real art world, look at Warhol, look at Keith Herring. 214 00:16:25,945 --> 00:16:29,515 They always did stuff for the community or something larger than themselves. 215 00:16:29,545 --> 00:16:32,615 So you gotta, you gotta think like that. 216 00:16:32,615 --> 00:16:32,675 Alexis: Yeah. 217 00:16:32,695 --> 00:16:33,365 Okay, thats smart. 218 00:16:33,385 --> 00:16:37,945 Tiffany: So yeah, back to your point around royalties and how you're thinking about that. 219 00:16:37,975 --> 00:16:45,855 What are the royalties you're taking on Twin Flames and how are you thinking about reinvesting from your royalties back into the community? 220 00:16:46,230 --> 00:16:46,980 Justin: A hundred percent. 221 00:16:46,980 --> 00:16:49,740 So, you know, I get 10% of every sale. 222 00:16:49,847 --> 00:16:54,567 And every 10th- every 1% of my 10% goes to the Twins collectively. 223 00:16:54,657 --> 00:16:58,332 So I just paid out all the Twins after this Christie's auction. 224 00:16:58,382 --> 00:17:02,292 Around $200,000, which was 10% of everything I've made. 225 00:17:02,532 --> 00:17:04,572 And for me, it's like, I want to keep paying it forward. 226 00:17:04,572 --> 00:17:12,522 Not only to the subjects in the works and create a standard around photography to keep giving royalties to everyone involved. 227 00:17:12,612 --> 00:17:17,412 And I think that's the future of self-sustainability that's the future of universal basic income. 228 00:17:18,009 --> 00:17:20,199 I also invest a lot in other photographers. 229 00:17:20,229 --> 00:17:24,669 If you look at my Twin Flames vault, I have tons and tons of photography I buy. 230 00:17:24,799 --> 00:17:33,219 And I think through Quantum, we'll be giving a lot of other new photographers, a place to mint their work, and a lot of collectors who have eyes on what I'm doing on them. 231 00:17:33,279 --> 00:17:47,869 For me, it's like, I want to uplift as many people as possible and create a beautiful future for photographers that never existed because Instagram as social media kind of took that away from us with the disposability of scrolling and not valuing photography. 232 00:17:48,229 --> 00:17:51,889 And we look at photography with a visual- as a visual language. 233 00:17:51,949 --> 00:17:54,299 So it's just like, how do we bring value back to something? 234 00:17:54,509 --> 00:17:58,069 And for me it's like the work I'm doing, and education, I think too. 235 00:17:58,309 --> 00:18:01,614 Tiffany: How do you think people will be displaying photos in the coming years? 236 00:18:01,644 --> 00:18:07,914 If it's not Instagram, obviously that's not going to be the place where talented photographers are showing off their work. 237 00:18:08,124 --> 00:18:11,064 What do you think that experience is going to be like for collectors and creators? 238 00:18:11,064 --> 00:18:14,244 Is it physical kind of one of ones behind you? 239 00:18:14,274 --> 00:18:19,364 Things like that, but also online, obviously online galleries, like Cyber etc... 240 00:18:19,394 --> 00:18:20,814 Justin: I think all of the above. 241 00:18:20,814 --> 00:18:22,764 I think people love prints. 242 00:18:22,874 --> 00:18:23,764 I love prints. 243 00:18:23,764 --> 00:18:29,919 Everybody I've purchased on the NFT space I asked to send me a print, because I understand the value of physical things. 244 00:18:29,979 --> 00:18:31,146 And I like to collect art. 245 00:18:31,476 --> 00:18:37,191 I think the metaverse is obviously one, you know, infinite objects and that type of digital displays is another. 246 00:18:37,191 --> 00:18:38,391 It depends on your taste. 247 00:18:38,451 --> 00:18:43,341 You know, a traditional art world people, if they get into NFTs sooner than later, they'll want the physical. 248 00:18:43,401 --> 00:18:47,061 If you're a crypto collector, you don't want to collect physically. 249 00:18:47,411 --> 00:18:49,561 You're happy with having it on your iPhone. 250 00:18:49,621 --> 00:18:51,601 I mean, Alexis, what do you, what do you prefer? 251 00:18:51,871 --> 00:18:53,370 Alexis: I- okay. 252 00:18:53,580 --> 00:19:03,740 So, I've been perfectly fine having it on my iPhone because the thing that I realized is this is kind of like- this is like a living room that I carry around, but also has a face scanner. 253 00:19:03,830 --> 00:19:08,630 So it combines both the security of a bank vault with the intimacy of my living room. 254 00:19:08,720 --> 00:19:17,265 And so if I need to take someone in like magically put someone in my living room, it's a flex bunch of like Serena Cryptopunks, I can do it with a quick face scan. 255 00:19:17,445 --> 00:19:18,255 It feels secure. 256 00:19:18,585 --> 00:19:20,115 And then there you go. 257 00:19:20,505 --> 00:19:27,315 Now that said, I haven't been looking for- right now the best solution I have is just the Samsung frame TVs. 258 00:19:27,975 --> 00:19:31,095 Just cause I really, I want to maximize size and resolution. 259 00:19:31,125 --> 00:19:34,575 There's some very smart solutions that still don't have the full scale. 260 00:19:34,575 --> 00:19:40,545 And the part that Samsung has gotten right is the commodity product part of it, which is not terribly smart, just pretty. 261 00:19:40,815 --> 00:19:43,705 So it's solving the problem now, but it's the- it's the middle ground. 262 00:19:43,865 --> 00:19:48,465 Like, there's going to be some beautiful hardware that's big that you can just put on the wall. 263 00:19:48,465 --> 00:19:50,555 Justin: I mean, looking at what atomic form is doing. 264 00:19:50,885 --> 00:19:54,065 They made custom square screens, and there aren't any. 265 00:19:54,125 --> 00:20:01,675 Also, thinking ahead in the future we're going to have like AR goggles or whatever, and we'll be able to see the NFTs on the wall. 266 00:20:01,735 --> 00:20:05,365 Like, oh, there's my punk, there's my Twin Flames. 267 00:20:05,365 --> 00:20:07,405 So you don't have to use wall screens. 268 00:20:07,405 --> 00:20:08,105 Tiffany: That's going to be wild. 269 00:20:08,105 --> 00:20:08,955 Justin: But I like physical stuff. 270 00:20:09,005 --> 00:20:15,675 Alexis: Yeah, the hardware stuff is, I mean, at the end of the day, this stuff that exists are just screens and that's going to continue to become a commodity. 271 00:20:15,675 --> 00:20:17,985 So it's just going to get cheaper and better and bigger. 272 00:20:18,025 --> 00:20:21,345 Then it comes back to the, like, what is the best user experience? 273 00:20:21,445 --> 00:20:28,605 So it's your point, yeah, when everyone has simple frames that look like normal glasses, but that can do some kind of projection into- 274 00:20:28,605 --> 00:20:30,435 Justin: Or the neural nets will be in USB ports in our heads. 275 00:20:30,725 --> 00:20:33,215 Alexis: Or the Neural Link, yeah. 276 00:20:33,975 --> 00:20:35,253 It's not a priority yet. 277 00:20:35,479 --> 00:20:43,849 So to your point, but it's like different folks have different preferences, but certainly for the generation on the come up, like this is everything, the phone, the screen- 278 00:20:43,849 --> 00:20:46,119 Justin: It's the remote control of life. 279 00:20:46,479 --> 00:20:47,449 Alexis: Yeah, it really is. 280 00:20:47,539 --> 00:20:49,099 See, that's how we know you're an artist. 281 00:20:49,229 --> 00:20:52,779 That's a very good way to put it. 282 00:20:53,449 --> 00:21:02,059 Tiffany: I was going to say, I really want to understand all of the billboards that you've been doing and how you built out that initial community with the Cryptopunks. 283 00:21:02,589 --> 00:21:07,029 I've I've seen the billboards on Twitter have not seen it in person yet. 284 00:21:07,169 --> 00:21:08,089 Alexis: You don't need too. 285 00:21:08,129 --> 00:21:10,689 If you've seen it on Twitter you might as well have seen in person. 286 00:21:10,929 --> 00:21:11,859 Tiffany: It's so cool though. 287 00:21:11,859 --> 00:21:13,959 I want to see a Cryptopunk billboard. 288 00:21:13,959 --> 00:21:15,459 You need to drop the location. 289 00:21:15,459 --> 00:21:16,199 It's like all of them- 290 00:21:16,289 --> 00:21:17,229 Justin: That was back in April- 291 00:21:17,229 --> 00:21:17,919 Tiffany: It's like a scavenger hunt. 292 00:21:18,059 --> 00:21:20,499 Justin: Yeah, it was a scavenger hunt and we gamified it. 293 00:21:20,499 --> 00:21:32,334 So if you went to see the billboard and you took a selfie with it or took a photo of it, and you put your wallet address, we gave you an NFT of that billboard that you could place in the metaverse of the GLB file. 294 00:21:32,765 --> 00:21:34,675 That's something we did for the Miami show. 295 00:21:34,925 --> 00:21:43,095 And for me, it's like, I like bridging the real world with the digital world and gamifying it, so they play off each other kind of like IRL minting. 296 00:21:43,635 --> 00:21:46,630 It's just like, how do you- treat it like Pokemon go. 297 00:21:46,820 --> 00:21:52,160 Like, how do you keep attention in the physical world through online objects? 298 00:21:52,220 --> 00:21:54,380 And like, for me, it's like creating a balance. 299 00:21:54,380 --> 00:21:58,130 Like I don't want to jump too far in the matrix to the point where we have USBs in our head. 300 00:21:58,450 --> 00:22:03,035 But also too far off from technology that we can't sustain ourselves. 301 00:22:03,035 --> 00:22:10,065 So like I'm trying to be the middle ground and creating some sort of balance with what the work I do and reflecting off each other. 302 00:22:10,446 --> 00:22:12,396 Maybe it's because I'm a Libra, I don't know. 303 00:22:12,756 --> 00:22:39,441 But I will say with SaveArtSpace, my business partner and I, Travis Rick, started this in 2015 and we've been putting art on billboards for like seven years now to put- like I said before, to get rid of Ads, to get rid of the poison of our consciousness and give people a place to share their message and their work in the world, because I'm trying to create a community society versus a consumerist society. 304 00:22:39,441 --> 00:22:46,281 And I think billboards really play on consumerism to the point where it gets you to buy alcohol and, and cars and jeans. 305 00:22:46,311 --> 00:22:52,716 But what I'm trying to create is a message to the community to uplift your soul and inspire you just by a piece of art. 306 00:22:52,806 --> 00:23:00,006 And not only that, giving the artists esteem enough to feel like they too can be an artist and they don't have to be an accountant or a lawyer or whatever. 307 00:23:00,126 --> 00:23:01,146 They could be an artist. 308 00:23:01,546 --> 00:23:02,196 It's a job. 309 00:23:02,226 --> 00:23:06,906 So for me, it's very important not only to do that for artists, but also the social messaging. 310 00:23:06,906 --> 00:23:15,106 Like we work a lot in Black Lives Matter, Trans People Are Sacred, Women's Rights, like we push everything forward and let the community curate and let the community. 311 00:23:15,465 --> 00:23:21,315 Wherever we are working at those people are choosing the artists and the work that goes up because it's for the community. 312 00:23:21,345 --> 00:23:29,895 Let's say for example, Miami or Ohio, like we find someone there to curate because they're home and they choose artists there. 313 00:23:29,895 --> 00:23:35,565 So we also discover a lot and we put that meaningful messaging out there to hopefully change the world and make it positive. 314 00:23:35,625 --> 00:23:38,535 And also an understanding and acceptance in society. 315 00:23:38,595 --> 00:23:41,355 Like I'm trying to create a sophisticated- sophist- Is that the word? 316 00:23:42,035 --> 00:23:43,275 Sophisticated society. 317 00:23:43,905 --> 00:23:46,290 A sophisticated society about art. 318 00:23:46,420 --> 00:23:52,470 Like, why do we have dumbing down and billboards that treat us like, we're just- it's just not right. 319 00:23:53,955 --> 00:23:54,835 I don't like it. 320 00:23:54,955 --> 00:24:00,008 Alexis: I'm pretty sure Buenos Aires the city in Argentina banned billboards for a minute or there was a- 321 00:24:00,038 --> 00:24:00,478 Justin: Yeah. 322 00:24:01,758 --> 00:24:05,658 All signage and then they brought it back through bus stops. 323 00:24:06,738 --> 00:24:07,528 Alexis: Oh, they brought it back. 324 00:24:08,288 --> 00:24:09,288 Justin: Look at the bus stops there. 325 00:24:09,288 --> 00:24:09,948 They got you. 326 00:24:10,058 --> 00:24:11,998 Tiffany: Alexis loves billboards. 327 00:24:11,998 --> 00:24:13,198 Alexis: I do love billboards. 328 00:24:13,223 --> 00:24:16,463 I especially love repurposing them. 329 00:24:16,563 --> 00:24:17,723 And hijacking them for- 330 00:24:17,723 --> 00:24:20,303 Justin: We're subverting advertising for public viewing. 331 00:24:20,933 --> 00:24:23,993 Think about it like this private companies. 332 00:24:24,113 --> 00:24:26,123 And I work with them to put our art up there. 333 00:24:26,183 --> 00:24:30,763 Private companies buy these spaces and they're polluting- visually polluting the spaces. 334 00:24:30,883 --> 00:24:35,453 And the people of the, of those places didn't ask or vote or do anything for this. 335 00:24:35,723 --> 00:24:41,283 So it's just like creating a visual thing that we didn't want or ask for through capitalism. 336 00:24:41,303 --> 00:24:46,763 So what we're doing is subverting it to make it beautiful and artistic, and also meaningful. 337 00:24:46,823 --> 00:24:47,633 Tiffany: That's really cool. 338 00:24:47,663 --> 00:25:01,771 So every city that you're kind of doing billboards in- you really do work with the community and you kind of crowdsource and get their feedback on what kind of things should go up on the billboard instead of just big old cooperations throwing something on a billboard. 339 00:25:01,851 --> 00:25:09,463 Justin: Yeah, we don't even take corporate sponsors because it feels better not needing them and that the people pay for it through us as a crowdfunding. 340 00:25:09,523 --> 00:25:10,903 And it's the power of the people. 341 00:25:10,963 --> 00:25:12,673 And like, we don't want Bank of America. 342 00:25:12,673 --> 00:25:14,563 We don't want vodka companies. 343 00:25:14,563 --> 00:25:16,903 We just want to put art on and we don't want to have it branded. 344 00:25:17,563 --> 00:25:18,283 We're a nonprofit. 345 00:25:18,433 --> 00:25:22,883 Tiffany: It's crucial to bridge the physical and digital world in the sense. 346 00:25:22,883 --> 00:25:23,863 Alexis: So crucial. 347 00:25:23,863 --> 00:25:25,363 Tiffany: Billboards are one tool. 348 00:25:25,423 --> 00:25:28,033 Discord and Twitter are other tools I'm assuming. 349 00:25:28,033 --> 00:25:32,173 Justin: Also phone calls and hanging out in person are tools for building community. 350 00:25:33,233 --> 00:25:34,573 Tiffany: Hanging out in person guys. 351 00:25:34,753 --> 00:25:36,523 Do not forget to hang out in person. 352 00:25:36,523 --> 00:25:38,293 Alexis: You call people on the phone too? 353 00:25:38,353 --> 00:25:38,593 Tiffany: Yeah. 354 00:25:38,603 --> 00:25:42,223 What is this, like, such a novel idea, guys. 355 00:25:42,223 --> 00:25:43,183 Justin: What are we doing right now? 356 00:25:43,813 --> 00:25:45,703 Is this a phone call or podcast? 357 00:25:45,703 --> 00:25:47,083 Tiffany: A good phone call. 358 00:25:47,643 --> 00:25:49,843 Alexis: I love that though. 359 00:25:49,873 --> 00:26:05,343 Justin: But at the end of the day when you look at social media and you look at all this online engagement and interaction, at the end of the day it's like don't you want this energy in the real world in a physical space where we can like smoke joints or drink and like make art together. 360 00:26:05,373 --> 00:26:09,313 I feel like that's the purpose of social media is to bring us back into reality to hang out. 361 00:26:09,333 --> 00:26:10,293 That's what I try to create. 362 00:26:10,323 --> 00:26:23,253 During COVID it's tough, but I feel like we're on the latter end of it, and now we're starting to emerge through this "Cryptenaissance" of this new renaissance of art and tech that is going to flourish because so many people are making money now. 363 00:26:23,313 --> 00:26:25,393 And now that gives us more tools to create. 364 00:26:25,793 --> 00:26:26,858 More cool things. 365 00:26:26,888 --> 00:26:40,258 Alexis: There's an amazing virtuous cycle, and I feel like I called this really too early when I backed Patreon in like 2014, I was on stage telling people about a second renaissance that would come because of things like Patriot. 366 00:26:40,963 --> 00:26:47,053 And a lot of ways it did bring out a whole nother wave of creators, but web three is actually really bringing it out. 367 00:26:47,593 --> 00:26:50,473 And it's amazing the trend that you hit on. 368 00:26:50,473 --> 00:26:51,493 That's so powerful. 369 00:26:51,583 --> 00:26:56,053 These artists and early creators now being able to reinvest in the next generation. 370 00:26:56,818 --> 00:26:58,828 This is what made Silicon valley. 371 00:26:58,948 --> 00:27:07,168 It was a bunch of nerds who made money, building technology companies, investing in other nerds who were building the next gen of technology companies. 372 00:27:07,198 --> 00:27:14,518 And that spun up the flywheel so damn fast that it let college kids like me get funding to start Reddit. 373 00:27:14,608 --> 00:27:18,958 And now, obviously that is not limited to any geography and you see a tech hubs everywhere. 374 00:27:19,633 --> 00:27:31,093 And that's the great flourishing of a tech community, you know, because when they're successful startups, you just make a bunch of angel investors who basically now have enough money to reinvest in the thing they know really well, which is other technology companies. 375 00:27:31,363 --> 00:27:33,913 That has- I mean, you're seeing the proof of it right now. 376 00:27:34,333 --> 00:27:43,813 Now you take away geographic constraints and you offer it to a creator class or a, you know, a maker class, thats not engineers and developers and designers. 377 00:27:44,143 --> 00:27:45,233 Well sort of designers. 378 00:27:45,233 --> 00:27:47,773 We know it's not people building startups, it's people doing creative projects. 379 00:27:48,478 --> 00:28:00,748 Dude that flywheel, it's going to spin, because it turns out the best people at sort of picking what to back, what to invest in are more often than not the operators, the practitioners, the doers. 380 00:28:01,048 --> 00:28:04,348 And I believe it's the exact same in the arts as it has been in technology. 381 00:28:05,173 --> 00:28:06,793 And it's going to be a lot of fun. 382 00:28:07,003 --> 00:28:15,103 Cause I mean, we've never seen an art world that is fueled by the choices of other artists, right? 383 00:28:15,163 --> 00:28:17,203 The Medici's were just a wealthy family. 384 00:28:17,203 --> 00:28:28,873 You look at all the patrons of the arts, historically it's just rich people who through one means or another rarely art and rarely creativity acquired their wealth and pick stuff that they liked for whatever reason. 385 00:28:29,263 --> 00:28:30,213 Justin: Here's a good example. 386 00:28:30,263 --> 00:28:34,793 In the Renaissance, I think, when we saw the paintings of Jesus. 387 00:28:34,948 --> 00:28:36,178 Who was commissioning that? 388 00:28:37,108 --> 00:28:39,178 Who was advertising Jesus? 389 00:28:40,278 --> 00:28:40,448 Alexis: The Pope? 390 00:28:40,448 --> 00:28:41,918 Justin: It was the church! 391 00:28:43,378 --> 00:28:48,238 So like I'm thinking of it in terms of culture and the patrons and where we're at now. 392 00:28:48,238 --> 00:28:50,588 And now the creators are also the patrons. 393 00:28:50,588 --> 00:28:54,808 And now the tech VCs are also giving abundance to the creators. 394 00:28:54,808 --> 00:29:02,308 So it'slike this self-sustainable loop and because of royalties, it really up keeps everyone for every project you make moving forward. 395 00:29:02,308 --> 00:29:03,988 I think that's the most beautiful thing. 396 00:29:04,348 --> 00:29:11,478 And the most important thing about NFTs dude is the fact that artists retain royalties and no collectors should want to take that from the artists. 397 00:29:11,488 --> 00:29:15,648 Cause I see a lot of talk like that, but it's like that should not be said. 398 00:29:16,088 --> 00:29:22,808 Alexis: Agreed, and Justin, I want to double down on your point, because there's a reason Jesus got paler and paler. 399 00:29:23,530 --> 00:29:31,900 He went from being, you know, a dark skin, middle Eastern Jew to being like a fair skinned blonde haired, blue eyed Jesus. 400 00:29:31,930 --> 00:29:32,230 Right. 401 00:29:32,230 --> 00:29:33,580 And that's not a coincidence. 402 00:29:33,670 --> 00:29:38,740 And that is a very deliberate, I mean, that's that puts the punctuation on the point you just made. 403 00:29:39,360 --> 00:29:57,867 Is that this was imagery very clearly being used as a propaganda and very clearly, you know, more a reflection of sort of what certain people wanted it to be then what even the sort of reality of the original person was in this very particular case. 404 00:29:58,902 --> 00:30:07,062 The more creators you have enabled to make the art that is true to them and honest to them, and then getting enriched by that. 405 00:30:07,122 --> 00:30:16,777 I really think you actually then by default, bring- that's not to say there's not a lot of work to do, but by default you're going to bring a lot more authenticity, and a lot more diversity to the artwork that gets created, 406 00:30:16,777 --> 00:30:27,637 There's still a lot of work to be done for sure, in the NFT art world, but I think there's a path here to a much, much more honest account of artistry and creativity, which is great. 407 00:30:27,637 --> 00:30:27,767 Justin: Yeah. 408 00:30:27,767 --> 00:30:35,547 I think it also accelerates our culture to reach new technological discoveries. 409 00:30:35,547 --> 00:30:47,567 But I think when art is flourishing, that's when science and technology are also flourished because of the conversations had between people like yourself, me, and other scientists, maybe at NASA or Cern. 410 00:30:47,997 --> 00:30:51,717 Like, these are the people that need to connect, because these are the people thinking. 411 00:30:51,807 --> 00:30:56,367 And we need our thought leaders in this space to create a better future for everyone. 412 00:30:56,667 --> 00:30:57,147 Alexis: For real. 413 00:30:57,627 --> 00:31:05,464 Justin: And then, you know, going back for a second and talking about a contemporary version of Jesus, like, being paid for by the church. 414 00:31:05,854 --> 00:31:08,434 I would say, look at Warhol. 415 00:31:08,734 --> 00:31:10,294 Like look at all his paintings. 416 00:31:10,564 --> 00:31:28,729 He practically brought commercialization into the museum world from abstract expressionism to complete corporate control in the fine art world, through the work he was creating with Coca-Cola and Campbell's and every other brand he's ever used in his works. 417 00:31:28,759 --> 00:31:34,219 And it's like, the people probably commissioning him or buying his art around then were the people who were the advertisers. 418 00:31:34,489 --> 00:31:49,169 So when you fast forward to now, the people commissioning and supporting artists are all the tech VC funds or people in that space and, like, that's why we're seeing Cryptopunks surface up in the fine art world, because you guys are the patrons. 419 00:31:49,499 --> 00:31:54,329 And at the end of the day, it's like when you follow the money, that's where the art really comes out of. 420 00:31:54,359 --> 00:31:56,669 Like, all the crypto art, all the smart contracts. 421 00:31:56,849 --> 00:32:10,054 Luckily photography is now part of this through the work I'm doing and other people are doing, but I think photography got left somewhere between being created in the 1850s and like being sidebarred through social media. 422 00:32:10,054 --> 00:32:18,794 So I'm trying to really bring value back to something so sacred and also scientific, and that should be respected as a fine art form. 423 00:32:19,064 --> 00:32:20,104 And it is. 424 00:32:20,594 --> 00:32:25,229 Tiffany: Justin, if a talented photographer wanted to launch their own NFT collection. 425 00:32:25,259 --> 00:32:26,279 How would you approach it? 426 00:32:26,309 --> 00:32:27,479 What would you suggest to them? 427 00:32:28,619 --> 00:32:30,483 Justin: I would say contact me. 428 00:32:30,513 --> 00:32:32,236 Let's hang out and talk about it. 429 00:32:32,399 --> 00:32:36,239 Join my discord because you know, everyone who's collecting, photography's there. 430 00:32:36,299 --> 00:32:38,109 Watch what's happening on Twitter. 431 00:32:38,401 --> 00:32:41,621 Go to in real life events, try to meet people in person. 432 00:32:41,995 --> 00:32:43,885 Study other photography projects. 433 00:32:43,945 --> 00:32:46,745 Decide how you want to label your works. 434 00:32:46,775 --> 00:32:49,205 How many you want to put in your collection? 435 00:32:49,235 --> 00:32:53,285 I like to treat my collection like, hey, I'm having a fire, an art museum show. 436 00:32:53,525 --> 00:32:55,835 So what are- what is the collection I'm exhibiting? 437 00:32:55,865 --> 00:32:58,715 It's not going to be a hundred random photos from Justin's life. 438 00:32:58,745 --> 00:33:03,990 It's going to be the serious projects I was taught in at school to create. 439 00:33:03,990 --> 00:33:10,740 Like, when you go to art school for me, at least, or if you go to Yale, MFA, like you're taught to create a series. 440 00:33:10,980 --> 00:33:18,330 And by that I mean like a cohesive narrative with a punctum, which is a small detail that bridges all the photos together. 441 00:33:19,455 --> 00:33:24,698 If you read Roland Barthes camera obscure you'll really learn a lot about photography. 442 00:33:24,848 --> 00:33:26,618 But what ties all these pictures together? 443 00:33:26,618 --> 00:33:28,188 For me, it was the Twins, right? 444 00:33:28,188 --> 00:33:30,518 And the subject brought it all together. 445 00:33:30,788 --> 00:33:35,678 But in someone else's project, it could be a red handkerchief that's hanging in every image. 446 00:33:35,708 --> 00:33:39,578 It's like small details, but this- these are the things you read and learn when you read that book. 447 00:33:39,608 --> 00:33:49,028 So at the end of the day, it's like if you had a chance to have a museum show of a cohesive collection that tells a story, what is that, that you made and make that your collection. 448 00:33:49,088 --> 00:33:51,398 And some people have 5, 10 different collections. 449 00:33:51,398 --> 00:33:52,548 Some people might have 1. 450 00:33:52,568 --> 00:33:55,208 It's just a matter of treating it like it's an exhibition. 451 00:33:55,258 --> 00:34:02,678 And for instance, the image for the main image used to represent the collection should be called the flyer image. 452 00:34:02,888 --> 00:34:05,768 Just like if you were printing a flyer and sending it to people. 453 00:34:06,498 --> 00:34:08,988 Or handing out flyers for your art show. 454 00:34:08,988 --> 00:34:10,648 It's like what images on that card? 455 00:34:10,668 --> 00:34:12,438 It's like, that's- that's the title image. 456 00:34:12,528 --> 00:34:15,588 For me it's the book cover image, because that's like what represents the project? 457 00:34:15,588 --> 00:34:17,688 There's the duality, there's a surreality. 458 00:34:17,868 --> 00:34:19,908 So it was natural to always use that one. 459 00:34:20,118 --> 00:34:29,158 Tiffany: So that was- number 83 is the cover of your collection, which, you recently auctioned off at Christie's for over a million. 460 00:34:29,158 --> 00:34:30,068 Which is crazy. 461 00:34:31,298 --> 00:34:32,768 Over Ansel Adams. 462 00:34:32,788 --> 00:34:39,638 Like I grew up looking at photos of Ansel Adams, because I used to do a lot of photography just because I wanted to capture my memories. 463 00:34:40,418 --> 00:34:43,731 From there I did a lot of photography gigs in high school. 464 00:34:44,811 --> 00:34:47,981 I Used to do a lot of photo shoots, concert shoots. 465 00:34:47,981 --> 00:34:52,751 Like I just wanted to learn about photography and it was just a really fun passion for me. 466 00:34:53,081 --> 00:34:55,691 I never saw it as a potential career. 467 00:34:55,691 --> 00:34:58,931 Like I grew up not thinking that this could be a real career path, right? 468 00:34:58,931 --> 00:35:05,681 But you've changed that, and you've helped photographers and artists around the world realize that they could actually do this as a career. 469 00:35:05,791 --> 00:35:09,746 Especially with NFTs and royalties that are ongoing, right? 470 00:35:09,746 --> 00:35:11,666 Like that changes the game entirely. 471 00:35:11,786 --> 00:35:14,846 Justin: We've been fed the short end of the stick far too long. 472 00:35:14,876 --> 00:35:17,186 We've been the starving artists far too long. 473 00:35:17,276 --> 00:35:24,776 You know, I want to see billionaire artists, because the artists are always the people that will give back and make the world a better place. 474 00:35:25,106 --> 00:35:28,976 Whether it's through their art for spirit or the cause that they're working towards. 475 00:35:29,006 --> 00:35:33,432 You know, for me it's like, I try to be a philanthropist through all my work. 476 00:35:33,582 --> 00:35:35,992 Through all the things, you know, the auctions I do. 477 00:35:35,992 --> 00:35:41,082 I donated a hundred percent of my proceeds to an NFT charity to support other artists. 478 00:35:41,472 --> 00:35:46,272 I donated half of the Christie sale to SaveArtSpace, to support other artists. 479 00:35:46,272 --> 00:35:54,372 So it's like, for me, I want to keep reinvesting in artists because those are the people who are changing the world and uplifting the spirit of our consciousness. 480 00:35:54,582 --> 00:35:56,222 Tiffany: And that's called building community. 481 00:35:56,692 --> 00:36:00,792 You're not just trying to take in all the profit, which is what people previously did. 482 00:36:00,792 --> 00:36:01,242 Right? 483 00:36:01,512 --> 00:36:05,552 You are reinvesting most of it back in to the community. 484 00:36:05,822 --> 00:36:08,652 Justin: Well, I would say first and foremost, pay your bills. 485 00:36:08,682 --> 00:36:09,252 Pay your debt. 486 00:36:09,822 --> 00:36:11,112 Buy a house if you can. 487 00:36:11,532 --> 00:36:13,722 Everything after that, donate. 488 00:36:13,902 --> 00:36:15,372 Give back and support. 489 00:36:15,612 --> 00:36:18,922 Like, make sure you take care of yourself in a responsible, ethical way. 490 00:36:18,952 --> 00:36:24,357 And then really utilize and reinvest, because we want to be in the abundance mindset. 491 00:36:24,357 --> 00:36:30,057 Once you're in the scarcity mindset, you become a hoarder of wealth, and that's just not where we want to be in this time. 492 00:36:30,087 --> 00:36:30,927 We want to create. 493 00:36:31,407 --> 00:36:32,457 Create opportunities. 494 00:36:32,817 --> 00:36:33,327 Tiffany: I love that. 495 00:36:34,527 --> 00:36:35,637 Alexis: You're so right, man. 496 00:36:36,627 --> 00:36:41,187 This flywheel and this abundance mindset and a positive sum mindset. 497 00:36:41,307 --> 00:36:41,577 Right? 498 00:36:41,577 --> 00:36:50,127 Seeing other people's success, not as less success in the world for your own is such a smart way to be, and it's going to mean amazing creativity. 499 00:36:50,157 --> 00:36:59,892 It's not going to stop, but I think in particular, the next decade, we will see rapid, rapid expansion in a way that's going to feel compared to the last decade, mindblowing. 500 00:36:59,982 --> 00:37:02,832 Nothing short of mind blowing in terms of creativity and artistry. 501 00:37:02,832 --> 00:37:06,730 And you absolutely will see a billionaire artist in terms- 502 00:37:06,880 --> 00:37:10,690 Tiffany: Wait, so can we define what- how do you define an artist actually? 503 00:37:12,246 --> 00:37:14,096 Alexis: Man, I'm going to leave it to the artist. 504 00:37:14,096 --> 00:37:19,626 Justin: I was going to say I was going to leave that one to you. 505 00:37:21,326 --> 00:37:23,416 Lets start from the outside in. 506 00:37:23,616 --> 00:37:26,226 Alexis: I mean, a culture creator. 507 00:37:26,856 --> 00:37:27,256 Justin: It's a good one. 508 00:37:27,476 --> 00:37:30,216 Alexis: I'm trying to paint broad strokes here, cause it could be a musician. 509 00:37:30,216 --> 00:37:30,426 It could be- 510 00:37:30,426 --> 00:37:32,396 Tiffany: It's very, very broad. 511 00:37:32,676 --> 00:37:38,016 Alexis: It could be- I don't know what the right medium is going to be necessary. 512 00:37:38,866 --> 00:37:48,706 Tiffany: Wait, does David Solomon count as a billionaire artists, because he goes- he's a DJ in his free time, and he's the CEO of Goldman Sachs. 513 00:37:49,236 --> 00:37:49,856 Alexis: No. 514 00:37:50,256 --> 00:37:51,216 Tiffany: During the day, yes! 515 00:37:51,686 --> 00:37:53,466 Justin: Thats an entrepenuer. 516 00:37:53,466 --> 00:37:59,519 Alexis: The billing has got to come from the full-time work has to be culture creation. 517 00:37:59,964 --> 00:38:02,384 Tiffany: Full time artist, part-time billionare. 518 00:38:02,384 --> 00:38:03,084 Justin: That's what I meant. 519 00:38:03,114 --> 00:38:03,774 That's what I meant. 520 00:38:03,774 --> 00:38:11,184 Like, if you're creating a painting or photos or sculpture music, and you make a billion off of that or whatever, like that's what we were talking about. 521 00:38:11,214 --> 00:38:15,314 Not like, oh, I made money and I'm going to invest it, and now I have 2 billion because I invested. 522 00:38:16,144 --> 00:38:20,664 Alexis: Yeah, a hundred percent agreed and that's going to happen in the next decade, so hang on. 523 00:38:20,754 --> 00:38:21,924 And let's get fun with it. 524 00:38:21,924 --> 00:38:24,714 Okay, Justin, you brought up the starving artist meme. 525 00:38:25,224 --> 00:38:33,024 That was something Jack Conte, when he was founding Patreon, that was his thing was he was sick and tired of going to parties and having people be like, "What do you do?" 526 00:38:33,084 --> 00:38:37,404 "Oh, I'm an artist or musician on YouTube," whatever, they'd be like, "Oh I'm so sorry." 527 00:38:37,544 --> 00:38:40,804 Tiffany: It should be celebrated instead of that. 528 00:38:41,464 --> 00:38:42,194 Alexis: Exactly. 529 00:38:42,194 --> 00:38:46,194 What this will do though, Justin, is think about it generationally too. 530 00:38:46,704 --> 00:38:51,504 You're going to have little kids who when they're asked, "What do you want to be when you grow up?" 531 00:38:51,504 --> 00:38:55,214 And they're going to be able to say with confidence and conviction, "I'm going to be an artist." 532 00:38:55,874 --> 00:39:01,984 The feedback loop they're going to get, it's not, "Well, you should probably have a backup plan, Johnny." 533 00:39:02,044 --> 00:39:04,714 It's going to be, "Wow, that's awesome. 534 00:39:04,744 --> 00:39:06,124 Like who inspires you?" 535 00:39:06,314 --> 00:39:06,534 Right? 536 00:39:06,534 --> 00:39:09,244 "What journey do you want to go down?" 537 00:39:09,244 --> 00:39:09,484 Right? 538 00:39:09,484 --> 00:39:20,434 It's going to start a conversation and not end it, and to have a generation who is wired to think that way, who already is immersed in a digital culture, understands this stuff. 539 00:39:20,964 --> 00:39:25,434 Like almost on a biological level that, I don't- geriatric millennial over here. 540 00:39:25,914 --> 00:39:32,980 And also empowered by that signal from society that actually says, yeah, that's a real career path will make a huge impact. 541 00:39:33,326 --> 00:39:41,296 And think of the wealth of artistry and creativity that's going to come from that, because you have a generation that was not stunted, like every other previous one. 542 00:39:41,606 --> 00:39:44,816 Those of y'all who adored and spent time since childhood doing- I mean, right? 543 00:39:44,816 --> 00:39:51,486 How many people- the few people who gave you the encouragement to keep doing what you're doing, are unicorns. 544 00:39:52,106 --> 00:39:56,166 I assume, Justin, I assume you've not had a bunch of people going to you like, "That is awesome. 545 00:39:56,166 --> 00:39:56,516 I want to help! 546 00:39:56,786 --> 00:39:58,036 How do I join?" 547 00:39:58,036 --> 00:39:59,696 Justin: Now they do after I made it. 548 00:39:59,756 --> 00:40:02,146 Alexis: Of course, but society does not make it easy for you all. 549 00:40:02,146 --> 00:40:05,036 Justin: After you make it, make it, whatever that means. 550 00:40:05,396 --> 00:40:11,501 Like, then everyone starts like pooling resources and helping you and just like, "Where were you two years ago?" 551 00:40:11,831 --> 00:40:17,631 Alexis: Truth but just think- of course, those fires forged you and made you the artist you are. 552 00:40:18,081 --> 00:40:22,541 But the macro is for the next 10- whatever. 553 00:40:22,541 --> 00:40:28,581 Forever more, a little kid who wants to make art for a living is going to have way more doors opened than closed. 554 00:40:28,601 --> 00:40:29,861 And that's a great thing. 555 00:40:30,131 --> 00:40:31,631 Justin: Well, I will say this too. 556 00:40:31,901 --> 00:40:34,931 A lot of good artists come out from being told no. 557 00:40:35,701 --> 00:40:47,121 So, you know, I was lucky enough, you know, my mom really did everything she could to make sure I became an artist because she believed in me and, you know, I always did my best. 558 00:40:47,121 --> 00:40:51,741 And she saw that this mattered to me, and this is the most important thing, and I was passionate about it. 559 00:40:51,741 --> 00:40:55,671 And like, this is the only thing she ever saw me passionate about, like this and skateboarding. 560 00:40:55,671 --> 00:41:02,914 So she was like completely supportive and then it finally became like authentically supportive one day. 561 00:41:03,909 --> 00:41:17,319 And, and this was written in my Christie's essay where like she was diagnosed- she had cancer for a while and I was at the breakfast with my sister and her on celebrating my birthday. 562 00:41:18,219 --> 00:41:26,659 And we had like a breakfast, and prior to that, the doctors had told her she shouldn't take her medicine anymore. 563 00:41:26,669 --> 00:41:27,829 The cancer was gone. 564 00:41:28,076 --> 00:41:36,889 And that year in 2013 I had photographed her for like the very last time I saw her for my birthday project. 565 00:41:36,889 --> 00:41:42,799 And for that project, I photograph someone every day of the year on their birthday with a Polaroid without missing a day. 566 00:41:43,159 --> 00:41:47,149 And when it came to January 16th, my mother's birthday, I photographed her. 567 00:41:47,749 --> 00:41:52,729 And then from that point, it was her high point, like her highest point in her life, I think. 568 00:41:53,179 --> 00:41:59,599 And then to the point where I met up with her in September, she had told me, like she had like two months to live. 569 00:42:00,579 --> 00:42:04,509 And at that dinner, I was like, I'm done. 570 00:42:04,509 --> 00:42:05,619 Like, I can't make anything. 571 00:42:05,619 --> 00:42:06,729 I'm sad. 572 00:42:06,729 --> 00:42:07,209 I'm depressed. 573 00:42:07,209 --> 00:42:07,779 I can't move. 574 00:42:07,779 --> 00:42:08,649 Like I'm paralyzed. 575 00:42:09,129 --> 00:42:11,439 I can't, I'm not going to be in to be able to finish this project. 576 00:42:11,439 --> 00:42:14,859 And I was working at it for 10 months and like, she saw me. 577 00:42:15,609 --> 00:42:19,299 And she's like, no, I'm going to find someone whose birthday it is in this restaurant right now. 578 00:42:19,329 --> 00:42:20,649 Like I'm not letting you fail. 579 00:42:20,799 --> 00:42:22,119 And she's never done that before. 580 00:42:22,629 --> 00:42:26,349 And she found someone who was holding a birthday bag in that restaurant. 581 00:42:26,439 --> 00:42:29,529 And she asked if I could take his photo and I took his photo. 582 00:42:29,679 --> 00:42:33,609 And the beautiful thing about that, it was at this weird cow restaurant in lone island. 583 00:42:34,054 --> 00:42:35,449 And it was a cow themed restaurant. 584 00:42:35,449 --> 00:42:44,089 So I photographed this kid with a motorcycle cow, but the day before, and this is the beauty of creating something every day, because it creates meaning and it creates a narrative. 585 00:42:44,419 --> 00:42:50,574 The day before I was in Brooklyn and Flatbush, and I photographed someone, I was walking around with a sign that says "Is it your birthday?" 586 00:42:50,624 --> 00:42:53,894 every day for that whole year, cause I needed to find someone whose birthday it was. 587 00:42:54,884 --> 00:43:00,284 I met this kid in front of this bull, like a cow bull, like on Brooklyn somewhere. 588 00:43:00,284 --> 00:43:03,824 It was like a statue in Flatbush, off the G train somewhere near the park. 589 00:43:04,304 --> 00:43:05,284 And I photographed him. 590 00:43:06,094 --> 00:43:16,834 The cow imagery connected, but the day before I didn't realize what was going on until I looked back at both photos and was like, holy, this is connected in some weird way. 591 00:43:17,884 --> 00:43:20,734 And for me it was a spiritual magical moment. 592 00:43:20,734 --> 00:43:22,194 And that was the moment- 593 00:43:22,404 --> 00:43:22,884 Alexis: The universe man. 594 00:43:22,994 --> 00:43:23,604 Justin: The universe. 595 00:43:23,794 --> 00:43:27,574 And that was the moment I realized, like she truly cares this isn't like a joke. 596 00:43:28,534 --> 00:43:30,634 And you know, I did that project in her honor. 597 00:43:30,634 --> 00:43:33,824 She passed away two days after her birthday. 598 00:43:34,514 --> 00:43:39,994 And you know, it was, really hard for me, but that's the beauty of creating art. 599 00:43:40,044 --> 00:43:47,174 You create those moments, you create those memories, you create those meaningful instances that touch- that change your life forever. 600 00:43:47,174 --> 00:43:48,614 And you keep coming back to it. 601 00:43:48,614 --> 00:43:54,554 And, you know, I'm able to share this, what, like that was in 2013. 602 00:43:54,554 --> 00:43:58,784 So, I can share this eight years later and still feel that moment right now. 603 00:43:59,969 --> 00:44:03,899 And that's what art does, and that's why it's so important to follow that. 604 00:44:07,779 --> 00:44:08,669 Alexis: Thank you, Justin. 605 00:44:08,709 --> 00:44:10,549 Thank you for sharing that. 606 00:44:10,929 --> 00:44:12,459 We need more of that in this world. 607 00:44:13,509 --> 00:44:14,919 Justin: Thank you for receiving it man. 608 00:44:14,979 --> 00:44:17,219 It's just a story until I really share it. 609 00:44:18,009 --> 00:44:19,189 Tiffany: You have a wonderful story. 610 00:44:20,179 --> 00:44:22,519 I learned a lot in this past hour. 611 00:44:23,989 --> 00:44:29,599 Justin: Well, I'm here if you guys ever want to hangout, you know, like let's take this offline, let's build the future. 612 00:44:29,899 --> 00:44:31,159 Like this is what I'm here for. 613 00:44:31,352 --> 00:44:32,852 Tiffany: Throw some billboards up guys. 614 00:44:33,182 --> 00:44:34,022 Justin: Let's go! 615 00:44:34,802 --> 00:44:36,042 Are you guys going to NFT NYC? 616 00:44:36,042 --> 00:44:36,982 Alexis: Yeah, that would be dope. 617 00:44:38,142 --> 00:44:40,992 Tiffany: Art Basel? 618 00:44:41,132 --> 00:44:42,042 Justin: I'll be at both. 619 00:44:42,632 --> 00:44:43,772 We're getting billboards. 620 00:44:44,732 --> 00:44:44,912 Tiffany: Yeah. 621 00:44:44,912 --> 00:44:46,532 Alexis is definitely going to your- you live there. 622 00:44:47,637 --> 00:44:50,257 Alexis: Yeah, but I'll be at NFT NYC. 623 00:44:50,567 --> 00:44:53,927 I'm doing this thing or something. 624 00:44:54,517 --> 00:44:55,337 Justin: Hit me up dude. 625 00:44:55,357 --> 00:44:58,177 You got my number now, so hit me up if you want to chill. 626 00:44:58,477 --> 00:44:58,957 Alexis: Okay. 627 00:44:59,677 --> 00:45:00,457 That'd be a blast, man. 628 00:45:00,487 --> 00:45:11,117 It's just, it's wild to see this stuff and I still have whiplash every morning, and I'm hoping it's going to- I mean, okay, it can't slow down- for the love of god it needs to. 629 00:45:11,287 --> 00:45:16,787 We just need better tools to kind of keep up with everything that is new and upcoming, because I try my best man. 630 00:45:16,907 --> 00:45:20,157 Justin: Well what needs to slow down? 631 00:45:20,157 --> 00:45:20,735 You mean the profile picture projects? 632 00:45:20,735 --> 00:45:21,175 Alexis: No it doesn't. 633 00:45:21,175 --> 00:45:35,917 I don't want- well, for sure, but like the rate at which there is something new to learn about or talk about or be impressed by- because even the subtleties of execution, right? 634 00:45:35,917 --> 00:45:42,347 This is a canvas NFTs are- it's still the dumbest simplest version of the canvas. 635 00:45:42,767 --> 00:45:49,097 And artists and creators are already trying to come up with really innovative approaches to doing it. 636 00:45:49,097 --> 00:45:56,353 And yeah, the PFP is just one meme, but like, because it's such a new medium and everyone is sort of learning from everyone else in real time. 637 00:45:56,353 --> 00:45:58,153 It's not like, right? 638 00:45:58,153 --> 00:46:19,068 The rate at which it's going to evolve is so much faster than like a photographer: taking photos, developing, sharing techniques, talking, seeing a show, going across the world, seeing a new technique, bringing it back, like, because it is so digitally native, I mean, and the numbers attached to it are so remarkable- 639 00:46:19,888 --> 00:46:23,808 Justin: And the means of communication are so much faster to. 640 00:46:25,098 --> 00:46:25,458 Alexis: Yes. 641 00:46:25,458 --> 00:46:25,848 Tiffany: Yep. 642 00:46:26,208 --> 00:46:28,168 Justin: Cause we're doing it on Twitter and Discord. 643 00:46:28,958 --> 00:46:32,883 Alexis: I know, it breaks my heart none of it's on Reddit, but- 644 00:46:33,613 --> 00:46:35,053 Justin: That's your job. 645 00:46:36,933 --> 00:46:39,713 Alexis: I know we missed- that's a whole nother- we could do a whole lot of podcast. 646 00:46:39,713 --> 00:46:41,313 But the vote that we missed on that one- 647 00:46:41,313 --> 00:46:44,793 Justin: You didn't miss the boat it's still on the dock. 648 00:46:46,153 --> 00:46:47,133 Tiffany: Ahem, islands. 649 00:46:47,133 --> 00:46:51,623 Islands will fix that you guys. 650 00:46:51,623 --> 00:46:52,043 Nah, Reddit's gone. 651 00:46:52,043 --> 00:46:52,353 Reddit's out. 652 00:46:52,703 --> 00:46:53,473 Sorry guys. 653 00:46:54,033 --> 00:46:55,323 Alexis: No comment. 654 00:46:55,323 --> 00:47:00,543 Justin: You had a good year last year with the bets thing- with the game- what's it called? 655 00:47:00,733 --> 00:47:01,913 Alexis: Oh, wallstreetbets. 656 00:47:01,913 --> 00:47:03,503 Justin: That was your moment bro. 657 00:47:04,093 --> 00:47:06,153 Alexis: A whole nother camp. 658 00:47:08,433 --> 00:47:12,539 Community is a magical inexplicable thing. 659 00:47:12,749 --> 00:47:13,619 That is for sure. 660 00:47:13,749 --> 00:47:15,179 Anyway, this is great, man. 661 00:47:15,209 --> 00:47:16,139 Thank you so much. 662 00:47:16,409 --> 00:47:19,499 I actually have to jump to another NFT related conversation. 663 00:47:19,889 --> 00:47:21,280 So so stay tuned.