1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:03,720 We had gotten into a situation where we were in a pinch to get an ad recorded. 2 00:00:03,720 --> 00:00:06,570 You were too busy to do it, and we just went and had ai. 3 00:00:06,575 --> 00:00:06,645 I 4 00:00:06,645 --> 00:00:07,830 think I was traveling at the time, but 5 00:00:07,835 --> 00:00:07,845 yeah. 6 00:00:07,850 --> 00:00:09,180 Yeah, you were traveling at the time. 7 00:00:09,180 --> 00:00:14,940 And we had AI actually, um, you know, like emulate your voice based on things. 8 00:00:14,940 --> 00:00:19,410 11, um, 11 labs, and we, we used them to create your whole. 9 00:00:19,750 --> 00:00:22,180 And then we cut it down to size, we got it ready to 10 00:00:22,180 --> 00:00:24,850 go and we got it out there and nobody ever noticed. 11 00:00:24,850 --> 00:00:27,759 And to me, looking back on that ad, 'cause I went back and listened to 12 00:00:27,759 --> 00:00:30,910 it like in the last year or two, and I remember going, that was bad. 13 00:00:31,000 --> 00:00:32,619 How did nobody catch that? 14 00:00:32,680 --> 00:00:35,560 One person did and emailed me and asked if I had a cold. 15 00:00:37,950 --> 00:00:38,670 It's insane. 16 00:00:38,730 --> 00:00:38,940 Yeah. 17 00:00:44,040 --> 00:00:46,050 Welcome to Screaming in the Cloud. 18 00:00:46,200 --> 00:00:47,250 I'm Cory Quinn. 19 00:00:47,250 --> 00:00:51,060 It has been a month of Sunday since I've talked to today's guest, Chris Hill. 20 00:00:52,095 --> 00:00:57,285 You are the CEO slash owner of Humble Pod, the production company 21 00:00:57,345 --> 00:01:01,995 that has been producing this podcast nearly since the beginning. 22 00:01:02,055 --> 00:01:04,935 Now that we're 700 and however many episodes 23 00:01:05,055 --> 00:01:08,175 in it, it feels almost like a fever dream. 24 00:01:08,595 --> 00:01:09,255 How have you been? 25 00:01:09,465 --> 00:01:10,455 Been good man. 26 00:01:10,515 --> 00:01:13,365 Um, it been living the fever dream, if you will. 27 00:01:13,395 --> 00:01:14,805 So what are you up to these days? 28 00:01:14,805 --> 00:01:15,255 What's new? 29 00:01:15,255 --> 00:01:15,765 What's different? 30 00:01:15,765 --> 00:01:16,245 What's exciting? 31 00:01:16,665 --> 00:01:17,265 Oh man. 32 00:01:17,265 --> 00:01:21,465 So much is, so much is new and different and exciting for us right now. 33 00:01:21,495 --> 00:01:23,775 We finally have physical studio space here 34 00:01:23,775 --> 00:01:25,545 in Tennessee, which is pretty awesome. 35 00:01:25,575 --> 00:01:27,465 We have an office, which I'm calling you 36 00:01:27,465 --> 00:01:30,255 from, you know, which is extra awesome too. 37 00:01:30,285 --> 00:01:32,655 In fact, half of today I was hoping to be able to get 38 00:01:32,655 --> 00:01:34,845 into the studio, but long story short, didn't work out. 39 00:01:34,845 --> 00:01:37,095 We have an amazing studio we don't use. 40 00:01:37,125 --> 00:01:38,655 You'll have to go and watch my podcast. 41 00:01:38,655 --> 00:01:41,865 We built this brand to see some of the studio interviews we've done there. 42 00:01:42,134 --> 00:01:43,065 I see some of them on tick. 43 00:01:43,070 --> 00:01:45,169 Talk in the evenings as I'm scrolling through, 44 00:01:45,169 --> 00:01:46,669 you're generally wearing a dinosaur onesie. 45 00:01:47,929 --> 00:01:50,240 That's actually our UN podcast that we're doing 46 00:01:50,240 --> 00:01:51,919 just to kind of market and promote the company. 47 00:01:51,919 --> 00:01:56,030 So I have to ask, uh, it's, it's sort of the way of the world these days. 48 00:01:56,300 --> 00:01:59,270 Ai, it's on everyone's tongue mostly because big companies 49 00:01:59,270 --> 00:02:02,030 won't shut the hell up about it any given opportunity. 50 00:02:02,270 --> 00:02:02,955 Uh, how is it? 51 00:02:03,375 --> 00:02:06,285 Impacted you folks, your workflows, how you've 52 00:02:06,285 --> 00:02:08,264 been addressing these things, if at all, 53 00:02:08,264 --> 00:02:09,044 at every turn. 54 00:02:09,044 --> 00:02:11,415 I feel like for what we're doing with ai, I mean, we're 55 00:02:11,415 --> 00:02:13,484 on Riverside recording this right now, and I think that's 56 00:02:13,484 --> 00:02:17,894 a great example of, um, where podcasting is with ai. 57 00:02:17,954 --> 00:02:21,135 Riverside wants to do everything for you down to the editing now. 58 00:02:21,135 --> 00:02:22,905 It says, Hey, let us edit your podcast. 59 00:02:22,905 --> 00:02:25,065 Let us give you all these highlighted clips. 60 00:02:25,065 --> 00:02:28,785 Let us do all these things, and the minute you go, okay, and let it do that. 61 00:02:29,475 --> 00:02:30,945 It just, it doesn't work. 62 00:02:30,975 --> 00:02:31,575 It doesn't work. 63 00:02:31,575 --> 00:02:33,045 Well, it'll do it. 64 00:02:33,075 --> 00:02:36,195 It'll give you half of an episode or it'll give you most of what you need. 65 00:02:36,525 --> 00:02:38,805 But it's, it's not a hundred percent of the way there. 66 00:02:38,835 --> 00:02:42,105 And not that we would ever rely on an AI editor to begin with, 67 00:02:42,525 --> 00:02:45,525 but just the fact that it's, it's there and it's trying to push 68 00:02:45,525 --> 00:02:48,765 it forward, it just feels like AI's being forced into everything. 69 00:02:48,765 --> 00:02:51,225 And this is just another example of that for us. 70 00:02:51,315 --> 00:02:53,100 So, I mean, I hate to be cynical about it, but. 71 00:02:53,430 --> 00:02:56,550 For, for us it's like, yeah, we use it in some places, transcripts. 72 00:02:56,550 --> 00:03:00,360 It's really helpful with, um, it is helpful to source, you know, when 73 00:03:00,360 --> 00:03:03,420 you're looking up a lot of content to promote, it's nice to be able 74 00:03:03,420 --> 00:03:06,960 to pull things a little faster, but we still, we still find ourselves 75 00:03:07,110 --> 00:03:10,380 almost every time going back and relying on the human at the end of 76 00:03:10,380 --> 00:03:13,650 the connection to actually make the executive decisions on things. 77 00:03:13,980 --> 00:03:17,220 I found that there's a spectrum of jobs that have. 78 00:03:17,415 --> 00:03:20,505 Gone the way of being largely automated. 79 00:03:20,745 --> 00:03:25,065 Uh, my brother, for example, is at the absolute top of the list. 80 00:03:25,095 --> 00:03:25,185 Mm-hmm. 81 00:03:25,424 --> 00:03:29,174 Because for a decade, among other things, he has been a freelance translator. 82 00:03:29,174 --> 00:03:33,015 He picks up languages the way that some people pick up JavaScript frameworks. 83 00:03:33,285 --> 00:03:34,785 It is insane. 84 00:03:35,125 --> 00:03:41,454 And it went from all kinds of work all the time to only very specific, 85 00:03:41,454 --> 00:03:47,125 very sensitive legal issues where a misplaced comma will have consequences. 86 00:03:47,125 --> 00:03:50,185 So it has to be pristine and precise. 87 00:03:50,365 --> 00:03:53,815 But for everything else, like if I want to send a love note to my 88 00:03:53,815 --> 00:03:58,225 wife in Swedish, for some god-forsaken reason, AI can do a decent 89 00:03:58,225 --> 00:04:02,035 enough job of that because the consequences presumably are not. 90 00:04:02,340 --> 00:04:03,510 Catastrophic. 91 00:04:03,570 --> 00:04:04,590 Can't wait to Bork. 92 00:04:04,590 --> 00:04:05,160 Bork Bork. 93 00:04:05,160 --> 00:04:05,730 It'll be great. 94 00:04:05,790 --> 00:04:05,910 Yeah. 95 00:04:05,970 --> 00:04:06,150 Yeah. 96 00:04:06,930 --> 00:04:08,640 Sorry, I just got the Bork Bork Bork reference. 97 00:04:08,640 --> 00:04:09,150 There we go. 98 00:04:09,150 --> 00:04:12,630 Sesame Street is haunted us all for folks of a certain age. 99 00:04:12,660 --> 00:04:13,170 Oh, yes. 100 00:04:13,170 --> 00:04:13,410 Yeah. 101 00:04:13,410 --> 00:04:16,380 I mean, I'm, I'm a Muppet's lover for life, but yeah, with every time I 102 00:04:16,380 --> 00:04:19,890 see something new that says, AI can do this now, and it's like, can it? 103 00:04:19,890 --> 00:04:21,899 And you go and try it, it's like, eh, not really. 104 00:04:21,930 --> 00:04:24,510 It can get you so far, but it can get you all the way. 105 00:04:24,510 --> 00:04:24,570 Yeah. 106 00:04:24,600 --> 00:04:26,280 'cause the other side of it is like the other end of the 107 00:04:26,280 --> 00:04:29,010 extreme end of that spectrum of things you think AI could do. 108 00:04:29,490 --> 00:04:35,400 Legal work because yeah, it can absolutely spit out a boilerplate NDA. 109 00:04:35,430 --> 00:04:36,000 Terrific. 110 00:04:36,120 --> 00:04:36,570 Awesome. 111 00:04:36,659 --> 00:04:37,230 Great. 112 00:04:37,770 --> 00:04:41,610 And I showed one of these to my wife and it was, uh. 113 00:04:42,810 --> 00:04:44,820 Picture of someone who doesn't know how to code, came 114 00:04:44,820 --> 00:04:47,790 up to an engineer, was with Baby's first website. 115 00:04:47,790 --> 00:04:49,290 They're like, that's great. 116 00:04:49,980 --> 00:04:53,280 Now here's what the challenges with this are, and so on and so forth. 117 00:04:53,340 --> 00:04:55,650 Or someone in your case, someone who records 118 00:04:55,650 --> 00:04:57,900 their first podcast over a walkie talkie. 119 00:04:58,200 --> 00:04:58,290 Mm-hmm. 120 00:04:58,530 --> 00:04:59,190 Same approach. 121 00:04:59,280 --> 00:04:59,850 Okay. 122 00:05:00,060 --> 00:05:00,930 It's a start. 123 00:05:01,450 --> 00:05:02,530 Let's go deeper. 124 00:05:02,560 --> 00:05:04,119 How does this get, get interpreted? 125 00:05:04,119 --> 00:05:07,210 What are the actual things you're looking to defend against? 126 00:05:07,210 --> 00:05:11,200 What is your theory of mind of how this is going to play out? 127 00:05:11,409 --> 00:05:13,570 What is the risk you were attempting to mitigate? 128 00:05:13,690 --> 00:05:14,830 How do you view this? 129 00:05:14,890 --> 00:05:17,950 There are a lot of nuances on these things. 130 00:05:18,159 --> 00:05:21,010 Watching lawyers go back and forth with red lines with each other, 131 00:05:21,010 --> 00:05:24,640 like they're, they are speaking a form of their own language. 132 00:05:24,640 --> 00:05:27,370 There's a reason that legalese is a thing. 133 00:05:27,669 --> 00:05:28,640 There are terms of art. 134 00:05:28,900 --> 00:05:31,810 That had explicit interpretive meanings on this. 135 00:05:32,409 --> 00:05:36,489 And as someone who sits in the cheap seats of the legal world, I spent years 136 00:05:36,489 --> 00:05:40,060 moderating the legal advice subreddit, if that should give you some idea. 137 00:05:40,060 --> 00:05:42,489 Basically telling people, no, you can't sue a dog. 138 00:05:42,789 --> 00:05:46,870 But watching like, like I, there's a lot that goes into that. 139 00:05:46,870 --> 00:05:47,409 I've learned that. 140 00:05:47,570 --> 00:05:51,710 Pro se or pro per, which means self-representation is a Latin 141 00:05:51,710 --> 00:05:54,260 phrase that literally means you're about to see some bullshit. 142 00:05:54,650 --> 00:05:58,280 And judges generally tend to give those folks a wide degree 143 00:05:58,280 --> 00:06:01,760 of latitude, uh, because you, they're obviously not lawyers. 144 00:06:01,760 --> 00:06:03,800 They don't know how the, the, this stuff works. 145 00:06:03,890 --> 00:06:05,349 But the things that they come up with are just. 146 00:06:05,840 --> 00:06:06,320 Insane. 147 00:06:06,380 --> 00:06:08,030 They're absolutely insane. 148 00:06:08,330 --> 00:06:08,510 Yeah. 149 00:06:08,630 --> 00:06:11,210 It is the wrong side of the Dunning Kruger curve, where most of 150 00:06:11,210 --> 00:06:14,060 us who are not in the legal field don't know what we don't know. 151 00:06:14,060 --> 00:06:14,150 Mm-hmm. 152 00:06:14,570 --> 00:06:17,570 To the point where it, it seems objectively nuts. 153 00:06:17,719 --> 00:06:17,810 Mm-hmm. 154 00:06:18,050 --> 00:06:21,920 Uh, something I have found has been that I, people have 155 00:06:22,010 --> 00:06:24,440 started accusing me on a relatively regular basis now. 156 00:06:24,810 --> 00:06:27,300 Of having used AI to write things. 157 00:06:27,305 --> 00:06:27,705 Mm-hmm. 158 00:06:27,870 --> 00:06:33,030 And I did some checking and I have blog posts that are dripping, dripping 159 00:06:33,180 --> 00:06:36,690 with AI signed except for the minor part that I wrote them in 2019. 160 00:06:37,229 --> 00:06:40,530 And if I had a functioning LLM of that quality back then 161 00:06:40,530 --> 00:06:43,200 why am I not a billionaire as I, excellent question. 162 00:06:43,770 --> 00:06:47,190 No, it's, I'm a professional writer and these things learn from us, and I'm 163 00:06:47,190 --> 00:06:50,700 not gonna stop using M dashes just because everyone thinks robots did it. 164 00:06:50,730 --> 00:06:52,169 But someone did ask me. 165 00:06:52,739 --> 00:06:53,760 Uh, you'll have the answer to this one. 166 00:06:54,000 --> 00:06:57,989 When are you gonna start using AI to record parts of your podcast? 167 00:06:58,229 --> 00:07:02,700 Which I always chuckle at because only one person ever noticed Tell the story. 168 00:07:02,880 --> 00:07:03,659 Oh, man. 169 00:07:03,690 --> 00:07:08,460 Um, that was, that was an ad reme, if I'm thinking of the right story, here you 170 00:07:08,460 --> 00:07:08,700 are. 171 00:07:08,729 --> 00:07:12,479 We had gotten into a situation where someone was, um, 172 00:07:12,510 --> 00:07:15,000 well you, we were in a pinch to get an ad recorded. 173 00:07:15,000 --> 00:07:17,849 You were too busy to do it, and we just went and had ai. 174 00:07:17,880 --> 00:07:19,080 I think I was traveling at the time, but 175 00:07:19,080 --> 00:07:19,260 yeah. 176 00:07:19,265 --> 00:07:20,460 Yeah, you were traveling at the time. 177 00:07:20,460 --> 00:07:22,530 And we had AI actually. 178 00:07:22,770 --> 00:07:26,219 Um, you know, like emulate your voice based on things. 179 00:07:26,219 --> 00:07:30,659 11, um, 11 labs and we, we used them to create your whole 180 00:07:30,659 --> 00:07:33,359 script and then we cut it down to size, we got it ready 181 00:07:33,359 --> 00:07:36,090 to go and we got it out there and nobody ever noticed. 182 00:07:36,090 --> 00:07:39,030 And to me, looking back on that ad, 'cause I went back and listened to 183 00:07:39,030 --> 00:07:42,179 it like in the last year or two, and I remember going, that was bad. 184 00:07:42,239 --> 00:07:43,859 How did nobody catch that? 185 00:07:43,950 --> 00:07:46,830 One person did and emailed me and asked if I had a cold. 186 00:07:49,219 --> 00:07:49,940 It's insane. 187 00:07:50,000 --> 00:07:50,210 Yeah. 188 00:07:50,780 --> 00:07:54,080 AI used right, can be very subtle and can be very useful and 189 00:07:54,080 --> 00:07:56,540 can be very dangerous by that same point because like you 190 00:07:56,540 --> 00:07:59,900 said, years ago someone called and said, Hey, that was a cold. 191 00:08:00,200 --> 00:08:03,770 But today, I mean, with that new technology, even with 11 Labs where it's 192 00:08:03,770 --> 00:08:07,159 at now, the dialogue that it's able to sample and what it's able to do 193 00:08:07,159 --> 00:08:10,909 is even more convincing and, uh, more effective than what it used to be. 194 00:08:11,120 --> 00:08:12,469 And that's the scary thing. 195 00:08:12,535 --> 00:08:14,185 We can't believe that we see are here anymore. 196 00:08:14,245 --> 00:08:16,885 Yeah, I mean that's, that's one of the reasons why what we're 197 00:08:16,885 --> 00:08:19,795 seeing right now with a lot of the digital media trends is 198 00:08:19,795 --> 00:08:24,175 actually a, um, almost like a devolving of content creation 199 00:08:24,505 --> 00:08:27,270 where you're looking for content that looks homemade. 200 00:08:27,650 --> 00:08:31,640 You're looking for content that has a lower fidelity quality to it 201 00:08:31,669 --> 00:08:34,730 because people wanna see that you did this at home, that you really 202 00:08:34,730 --> 00:08:39,230 did the content the way it was expected to be versus, you know, in a 203 00:08:39,230 --> 00:08:42,169 professional studio where that professional studio could have been drawn 204 00:08:42,169 --> 00:08:46,819 up by AI and, um, you know, manipulated in any number of ways because 205 00:08:46,819 --> 00:08:50,720 it's looks too polished and people are really starting to suss that out. 206 00:08:50,720 --> 00:08:52,130 I think that's one of the things that we're 207 00:08:52,160 --> 00:08:53,930 learning to balance over this next year with. 208 00:08:53,965 --> 00:08:57,385 Podcast content and with other media content is creating it 209 00:08:57,385 --> 00:09:01,315 in a way that feels authentic to people and not just the best 210 00:09:01,315 --> 00:09:04,555 quality, best camera, best equipment that we can come out with. 211 00:09:04,615 --> 00:09:06,865 Does it matter and does it help to have high quality stuff? 212 00:09:06,865 --> 00:09:07,645 Absolutely. 213 00:09:07,675 --> 00:09:10,435 But once you get to a certain level at it, you know 214 00:09:10,435 --> 00:09:12,655 people are gonna start noticing if it sounds too polished. 215 00:09:12,655 --> 00:09:14,335 This starts to sound a little weird. 216 00:09:14,365 --> 00:09:16,555 In fact, I've, I've said this for years, that. 217 00:09:17,939 --> 00:09:20,189 People over index on production value. 218 00:09:20,219 --> 00:09:23,670 If your content is good, and I do strive to have good content, yes, 219 00:09:23,670 --> 00:09:27,989 people will crawl over broken glass to listen to it on some level. 220 00:09:27,989 --> 00:09:30,839 Like they, okay, you've recorded into an iPhone in your car. 221 00:09:30,930 --> 00:09:32,130 Great people will do that. 222 00:09:32,370 --> 00:09:35,160 Whereas if the content is not good, it does not matter. 223 00:09:35,160 --> 00:09:38,010 It does not matter how many hundreds of thousands 224 00:09:38,010 --> 00:09:39,689 of dollars you put into a studio build out. 225 00:09:40,170 --> 00:09:41,100 No one's gonna care. 226 00:09:41,100 --> 00:09:41,160 Yeah. 227 00:09:41,280 --> 00:09:43,740 Because at that point, what, what's the value? 228 00:09:43,890 --> 00:09:46,800 It Attention is the currency that people care about here. 229 00:09:46,950 --> 00:09:49,620 And then there's a point of, yeah, there's diminishing returns. 230 00:09:49,620 --> 00:09:51,330 Like, is this the best microphone in the universe? 231 00:09:51,360 --> 00:09:51,660 No. 232 00:09:51,780 --> 00:09:55,050 But to upgrade meaningfully from this, I've gotta do a whole build, a studio 233 00:09:55,050 --> 00:09:58,080 build out here, and at this point, people can understand what I'm saying. 234 00:09:58,080 --> 00:10:00,570 They aren't wincing through crackling and 235 00:10:00,570 --> 00:10:02,565 cutouts and whatnot to hear what I'm saying. 236 00:10:03,010 --> 00:10:04,240 It is good enough. 237 00:10:04,300 --> 00:10:08,200 Yeah, and I, I think that good enough is kind of the balance of what most people 238 00:10:08,200 --> 00:10:11,530 are looking for is what is good enough to be good enough, but not still be bad. 239 00:10:11,890 --> 00:10:13,810 And, you know, after a while, you know, quality 240 00:10:13,810 --> 00:10:16,150 can get so bad that people will stop listening. 241 00:10:16,480 --> 00:10:19,450 But again, it comes down to the content and that's where 242 00:10:19,450 --> 00:10:22,030 we really try to focus on humble pod with our customers is. 243 00:10:22,395 --> 00:10:24,765 Making sure that they're creating good content first. 244 00:10:24,765 --> 00:10:27,944 Because if you don't have that mission, if you don't have that vision for what 245 00:10:27,944 --> 00:10:31,515 you're gonna do, if you don't have a message, you wanna sp you know, spend time 246 00:10:31,515 --> 00:10:35,265 sharing with people and you don't have engaging content to begin with, people 247 00:10:35,265 --> 00:10:38,295 are just gonna turn it off, stop listening, and, and not care to begin with. 248 00:10:38,295 --> 00:10:41,985 So, yeah, that, that becomes the really hard thing. 249 00:10:41,985 --> 00:10:44,319 And what drives really authentic? 250 00:10:44,885 --> 00:10:48,724 Effective content is just that people being authentic and, 251 00:10:48,724 --> 00:10:51,724 um, creating stuff that people wanna listen to is hard. 252 00:10:51,785 --> 00:10:51,995 Yeah. 253 00:10:52,834 --> 00:10:54,035 Our processes have changed too. 254 00:10:54,035 --> 00:10:57,185 We, we don't do ad insertions anymore because it took me two 255 00:10:57,185 --> 00:11:00,094 years to get off of it, but we don't have sponsors at this 256 00:11:00,094 --> 00:11:03,125 point other than my own company, which speak of the devil. 257 00:11:03,245 --> 00:11:05,974 If you are looking to do something a bit different that isn't 258 00:11:05,974 --> 00:11:09,094 dripping with AI in every sense, but still understands how it works, 259 00:11:09,245 --> 00:11:12,875 uh, we're hiring software engineers in San Francisco at Duck Bill. 260 00:11:13,115 --> 00:11:14,405 Uh, you can find out more at Duck. 261 00:11:14,605 --> 00:11:16,345 Bill hq.com. 262 00:11:16,345 --> 00:11:17,755 Click on the careers page it. 263 00:11:17,755 --> 00:11:19,315 It's listed clearly at the bottom. 264 00:11:19,315 --> 00:11:20,275 If you can't find that. 265 00:11:20,275 --> 00:11:23,035 I'm predicting some challenges with the rest of the software engineering 266 00:11:23,035 --> 00:11:26,125 process and also that I don't know off the top of my head what the 267 00:11:26,125 --> 00:11:29,545 slug is because we just redid our website, which looks glorious 268 00:11:29,605 --> 00:11:35,305 and has 80% less platypus now, which I am coming into terms with. 269 00:11:35,455 --> 00:11:40,585 We are building software to help companies manage their complex cloud estates. 270 00:11:40,765 --> 00:11:43,195 It's a special kind of problem for special kind of people. 271 00:11:43,195 --> 00:11:43,810 If that's you, please. 272 00:11:44,474 --> 00:11:45,165 Reach out. 273 00:11:45,314 --> 00:11:47,115 See, now I'm doing ads real time. 274 00:11:47,175 --> 00:11:47,685 I know. 275 00:11:47,685 --> 00:11:48,974 Never felt I could do that before. 276 00:11:49,334 --> 00:11:49,425 Yeah. 277 00:11:49,425 --> 00:11:52,935 Because if I, like, I don't know, this is sponsored by Tinder 278 00:11:52,935 --> 00:11:56,564 for Pets date, a dog and like, or whatever a company is, and then 279 00:11:56,564 --> 00:12:00,314 someone, the guest is like, oh, I used them before it was shitty. 280 00:12:00,405 --> 00:12:02,204 Like I, I'm gonna have a problem. 281 00:12:02,240 --> 00:12:02,510 Mm-hmm. 282 00:12:02,780 --> 00:12:05,030 Whereas now it's like, oh, if you're gonna have a problem 283 00:12:05,030 --> 00:12:07,880 with the thing that I'm building, okay, let's dance. 284 00:12:07,880 --> 00:12:11,090 I'm thrilled to have that conversation, uh, and I'm not 285 00:12:11,090 --> 00:12:13,460 gonna have to deal with an angry phone call from a sponsor. 286 00:12:13,460 --> 00:12:14,750 They go, what the hell was that? 287 00:12:14,750 --> 00:12:14,780 Eh? 288 00:12:15,650 --> 00:12:18,200 But honestly, I, it feels like an overblown concern. 289 00:12:18,395 --> 00:12:21,845 Because I always had a vetting process for 290 00:12:21,845 --> 00:12:25,085 sponsors where the, the two rules were basic. 291 00:12:25,180 --> 00:12:28,535 You, you aren't allowed to lie to the audience and you have 292 00:12:28,535 --> 00:12:31,175 to convince me that used is directed for the right problem. 293 00:12:31,265 --> 00:12:33,575 It would not make the customer's situation 294 00:12:33,575 --> 00:12:36,425 worse because I don't wanna be Billy Mays. 295 00:12:36,455 --> 00:12:39,665 I don't wanna be pitching things that change every week 296 00:12:39,725 --> 00:12:42,845 that I don't know anything about that get people in trouble. 297 00:12:42,875 --> 00:12:44,735 I don't want to be a spokesperson. 298 00:12:45,120 --> 00:12:45,330 Yeah. 299 00:12:45,990 --> 00:12:46,200 Yeah. 300 00:12:46,260 --> 00:12:48,720 But for my own stuff, I have to be, and you know that that's the job. 301 00:12:48,810 --> 00:12:50,940 I mean, we, we have to be shills for our own businesses. 302 00:12:50,940 --> 00:12:51,900 I mean, that's just part of it. 303 00:12:51,900 --> 00:12:52,020 Yeah. 304 00:12:52,020 --> 00:12:55,050 But you can't do it compellingly instead of sounding like, well, here's 305 00:12:55,050 --> 00:12:58,080 the word someone wrote for me to put in my mouth and All right, great. 306 00:12:58,260 --> 00:12:59,790 Like, I, I just think off the top at 307 00:12:59,790 --> 00:13:02,160 extemporaneously, what are we trying to do this week? 308 00:13:02,310 --> 00:13:03,360 Uh oh yeah, we're hiring. 309 00:13:03,360 --> 00:13:04,110 That's our big thing. 310 00:13:04,140 --> 00:13:05,760 Let's talk about that aspect. 311 00:13:05,820 --> 00:13:06,810 And that's exciting too. 312 00:13:06,840 --> 00:13:08,880 'cause you've got, um, y'all have quite the business. 313 00:13:09,485 --> 00:13:11,135 Change and shift over there too. 314 00:13:11,194 --> 00:13:13,265 Have you talked about that on the podcast at all? 315 00:13:13,265 --> 00:13:16,834 Or I'm curious if anybody knows like what the big duck bill shift is. 316 00:13:16,895 --> 00:13:20,435 Mike and I have recorded a launch video that goes in depth about this. 317 00:13:20,435 --> 00:13:21,665 And you folks are editing. 318 00:13:22,025 --> 00:13:24,905 Yeah, but as of this recording, it has not yet gone out, which 319 00:13:24,905 --> 00:13:28,115 I believe it will before this goes out, but sometimes cart. 320 00:13:28,170 --> 00:13:28,829 Before horse. 321 00:13:28,979 --> 00:13:32,189 Welcome to the joys of media content scheduling. 322 00:13:32,339 --> 00:13:32,699 Yeah. 323 00:13:32,699 --> 00:13:34,380 We, we can cut this out if we need to. 324 00:13:34,380 --> 00:13:34,800 I will say 325 00:13:34,800 --> 00:13:34,920 that. 326 00:13:34,925 --> 00:13:35,939 No, we don't need, oh, please. 327 00:13:35,944 --> 00:13:37,680 We, we talk about it more, not less. 328 00:13:37,800 --> 00:13:39,329 We have Skyway the product. 329 00:13:39,569 --> 00:13:39,750 Yes. 330 00:13:39,780 --> 00:13:41,610 When we started doing this, we were consulting 331 00:13:41,610 --> 00:13:43,979 services only and the industry has a vault. 332 00:13:43,979 --> 00:13:47,699 The things that we focused on, Hey, I can lower your AWS bill first. 333 00:13:47,880 --> 00:13:49,349 That is not as hard as it used to be. 334 00:13:49,349 --> 00:13:50,880 People have gotten better at this. 335 00:13:50,880 --> 00:13:53,760 The tooling that cloud providers offer themselves is better. 336 00:13:53,819 --> 00:13:55,589 And two, optimization. 337 00:13:55,880 --> 00:14:00,290 Is a shitty software business to be in because wow, we brought you in and you 338 00:14:00,290 --> 00:14:04,849 blew 40% off of our AWS bill by not putting our credentials on GitHub anymore. 339 00:14:04,969 --> 00:14:05,300 Cool. 340 00:14:05,569 --> 00:14:07,310 What have you done for us lately? 341 00:14:07,370 --> 00:14:11,150 It's the, it's the renewal story and the churn that becomes a serious problem. 342 00:14:11,329 --> 00:14:12,349 It's a point solution. 343 00:14:12,349 --> 00:14:15,500 It doesn't solve the, the larger problem that customers have. 344 00:14:15,740 --> 00:14:19,430 We made an attempt at this a few years ago with Doc Tools and turns out we 345 00:14:19,430 --> 00:14:22,310 can build the wrong thing for several months without talking to customers. 346 00:14:23,005 --> 00:14:23,875 Well, that didn't work. 347 00:14:23,875 --> 00:14:25,435 And our amazing journey has come to an end. 348 00:14:25,435 --> 00:14:26,245 Back to services. 349 00:14:26,245 --> 00:14:29,365 We went, we kept toying at the idea and talking to customers 350 00:14:29,365 --> 00:14:32,035 and, well, people are buying it now, which is nice of them. 351 00:14:32,215 --> 00:14:35,845 And by the way, I, I loved the, the marketing behind Duck Tools 352 00:14:35,845 --> 00:14:38,995 especially, I mean, again, going back to childhood things, ducktails and 353 00:14:38,995 --> 00:14:41,515 the branding that you all did with that on the initial launch was great. 354 00:14:41,515 --> 00:14:41,545 Ooh. 355 00:14:41,575 --> 00:14:41,725 Yeah. 356 00:14:41,830 --> 00:14:44,305 I, I, uh, it was fun to play with and we only 357 00:14:44,305 --> 00:14:46,225 really went into it on our Amazing Journeys. 358 00:14:46,225 --> 00:14:47,935 Come to an end blog post because it. 359 00:14:48,245 --> 00:14:53,885 Turns out that speaking of lawyers and Chachi doing legal work, Disney's 360 00:14:54,065 --> 00:14:58,145 entertainment lawyers have absolutely no sense of humor whatsoever. 361 00:14:58,475 --> 00:14:59,135 Really? 362 00:14:59,135 --> 00:15:00,125 I didn't know that was a part 363 00:15:00,125 --> 00:15:00,245 of it. 364 00:15:00,245 --> 00:15:02,105 I No, imagine that. 365 00:15:02,285 --> 00:15:02,645 Wow. 366 00:15:03,005 --> 00:15:03,185 Yeah. 367 00:15:03,275 --> 00:15:05,015 I'm not surprised, but I mean, it's Disney. 368 00:15:05,015 --> 00:15:09,365 Oh, Disney's notorious for anything that like, oh, you thought of 369 00:15:09,365 --> 00:15:13,055 a mouse Cease desist hits your desk before they finish the thought. 370 00:15:13,235 --> 00:15:14,495 So what are you working on these days? 371 00:15:14,495 --> 00:15:15,305 What do you have to show? 372 00:15:15,454 --> 00:15:17,614 Well, next week I am off to The Bahamas. 373 00:15:17,675 --> 00:15:18,364 Wonderful. 374 00:15:18,364 --> 00:15:18,604 I, 375 00:15:18,609 --> 00:15:18,750 yeah. 376 00:15:19,620 --> 00:15:21,900 My, uh, my nanny's currently The Bahamas today, so 377 00:15:22,230 --> 00:15:22,620 Oh, nice. 378 00:15:22,625 --> 00:15:23,760 Nice popular season to go there. 379 00:15:23,880 --> 00:15:24,900 Yeah, I'll be working though. 380 00:15:25,050 --> 00:15:28,860 Um, so we've got a client in The Bahamas and, um, we're 381 00:15:28,860 --> 00:15:31,560 really excited about this one because we have been helping 382 00:15:31,560 --> 00:15:34,920 consult and help them build out a studio for themselves. 383 00:15:35,400 --> 00:15:37,320 And so we've been consulting on that. 384 00:15:37,320 --> 00:15:38,880 Talking about quality and everything. 385 00:15:38,880 --> 00:15:40,050 This is where quality matters. 386 00:15:40,050 --> 00:15:41,340 You know, you've got a client that comes in. 387 00:15:42,220 --> 00:15:44,620 Wants to have, um, you know, to bring podcasts 388 00:15:44,620 --> 00:15:46,810 from all over the world to their Bahamas resort. 389 00:15:46,840 --> 00:15:49,450 And we've helped them create a studio. 390 00:15:49,450 --> 00:15:53,080 And I'm going down to sign off on it, make sure everything's working right and 391 00:15:53,230 --> 00:15:56,140 well now I want to get myself on that podcast, whatever it might 392 00:15:56,140 --> 00:15:58,810 be, just so I can have an excuse to be there and then go diving. 393 00:15:58,930 --> 00:16:01,390 Oh, well, all you gotta do is book the studio. 394 00:16:01,540 --> 00:16:01,960 Seriously. 395 00:16:02,050 --> 00:16:05,170 Book some interviews down there and, and you're good to go. 396 00:16:05,170 --> 00:16:06,790 But yeah, they're gonna have a studio down there. 397 00:16:06,870 --> 00:16:09,300 For people to come and record and film and produce and 398 00:16:09,360 --> 00:16:11,700 they're doing some big names and it's, it's been a really 399 00:16:11,700 --> 00:16:16,020 cool product to be, um, not product project to be a part of. 400 00:16:16,020 --> 00:16:18,750 And yeah, we're excited for Humble Pod too. 401 00:16:18,810 --> 00:16:22,470 'cause this is our first big foray into, um, 402 00:16:22,470 --> 00:16:24,360 this kind of, this level of studio consulting. 403 00:16:24,360 --> 00:16:26,760 Prior to this, it was helping you get everything ready. 404 00:16:26,790 --> 00:16:28,180 Remember back, we were one of here. 405 00:16:28,380 --> 00:16:30,300 For, I think we were your first customer. 406 00:16:30,300 --> 00:16:30,360 Yeah. 407 00:16:30,600 --> 00:16:32,790 Where it was fun because you were ramping up and 408 00:16:32,790 --> 00:16:34,410 it felt like you were upgrading the equipment. 409 00:16:34,410 --> 00:16:37,439 We had almost on a quarterly basis, uhhuh, and at some point 410 00:16:37,439 --> 00:16:40,110 it's like I had an entire closet full of equipment long since 411 00:16:40,110 --> 00:16:43,770 donated of like gen one, gen two, gen three, and now we're on gen 412 00:16:43,770 --> 00:16:46,680 four, at which point it's like, okay uncle, we're, we're good. 413 00:16:46,740 --> 00:16:47,070 We're good. 414 00:16:47,580 --> 00:16:51,030 And there have been small piecemeal iterations here and there. 415 00:16:51,030 --> 00:16:51,040 Mm-hmm. 416 00:16:51,165 --> 00:16:51,945 But nothing. 417 00:16:52,715 --> 00:16:56,945 Nothing egregious, nothing completely redoing it because at some point the 418 00:16:56,945 --> 00:17:00,785 story becomes, okay, how to make the content better rather than the rest. 419 00:17:00,785 --> 00:17:03,725 Like even now, the camera I have, it looks 420 00:17:03,725 --> 00:17:06,275 great, but it is a piece of shit to manage. 421 00:17:06,275 --> 00:17:06,365 Mm-hmm. 422 00:17:06,665 --> 00:17:10,115 I would do so many different things with the camera, but at some point 423 00:17:10,115 --> 00:17:13,415 it's like, okay, I, I am so far down the, well now does this thing work? 424 00:17:13,415 --> 00:17:14,315 Have we gotten it to work? 425 00:17:14,315 --> 00:17:14,645 Right. 426 00:17:14,885 --> 00:17:15,275 Great. 427 00:17:15,815 --> 00:17:18,214 We're just gonna stay here for the, for the time being. 428 00:17:18,490 --> 00:17:20,349 A lot of the hardware hasn't changed that much. 429 00:17:20,349 --> 00:17:23,440 I mean, the microphone that you're using now, I mean, I think is, 430 00:17:23,440 --> 00:17:27,399 at least in design and in production, probably 40 or 50 years old. 431 00:17:27,760 --> 00:17:27,879 Yeah. 432 00:17:27,940 --> 00:17:29,830 There's no need to buy something new unless you 433 00:17:29,830 --> 00:17:32,350 really have a good, you know, business case for it. 434 00:17:32,379 --> 00:17:36,100 The one that did change that has been transformative and is so much less finicky 435 00:17:36,100 --> 00:17:41,230 than the old janky setup I had with a studio monitor and, uh, metal nonsense. 436 00:17:41,620 --> 00:17:47,110 The el Gato, uh, teleprompter that I'm using right now is spectacular. 437 00:17:47,340 --> 00:17:49,320 It just acts as an extra monitor. 438 00:17:49,590 --> 00:17:52,140 Everything is just seem, it is lightweight. 439 00:17:52,410 --> 00:17:54,510 It is all self-contained. 440 00:17:54,510 --> 00:17:58,860 It is not eight pounds of metal on a relatively thin frame. 441 00:17:59,040 --> 00:18:01,020 It hangs off the front lens of the camera. 442 00:18:01,020 --> 00:18:02,760 It is so light and it doesn't break the camera. 443 00:18:02,760 --> 00:18:02,910 It. 444 00:18:02,975 --> 00:18:04,175 It is well done. 445 00:18:04,235 --> 00:18:07,145 Like one of my pro tips when it comes to doing these types of interviews 446 00:18:07,534 --> 00:18:11,135 is always make the screen as small as possible around the camera. 447 00:18:11,554 --> 00:18:12,004 Um, yeah. 448 00:18:12,064 --> 00:18:14,764 So if you've got, if you've got a camera, like mine is kind of in the middle of 449 00:18:14,764 --> 00:18:18,334 my monitor right now, put it, put the screen around there and look into that. 450 00:18:18,334 --> 00:18:20,254 That way you're always looking forward through it, so you don't 451 00:18:20,254 --> 00:18:22,965 always need a. You know, a teleprompter to make it look good. 452 00:18:23,295 --> 00:18:23,445 Yeah. 453 00:18:23,475 --> 00:18:26,504 But the smaller you can make it, the more you're gonna be focused 454 00:18:26,504 --> 00:18:30,225 on that, that dot where you've got your camera light coming on. 455 00:18:30,375 --> 00:18:33,975 Honestly, in my case, the problem I have and the reason I, real reason 456 00:18:33,975 --> 00:18:37,725 I want a bigger, uh, teleprompter is I am a gentleman of a certain age. 457 00:18:37,955 --> 00:18:40,745 And my eyes are not what they once were. 458 00:18:41,195 --> 00:18:44,465 And looking like Mr. Magoo into the camera 459 00:18:44,465 --> 00:18:46,985 is not the most appealing visual thing here. 460 00:18:47,255 --> 00:18:49,925 And like, so I, I do wanna ask you about this incidentally. 461 00:18:50,105 --> 00:18:50,285 Yeah. 462 00:18:50,285 --> 00:18:54,425 Since you see a lot of this, I, I started this as a podcast. 463 00:18:54,425 --> 00:18:58,205 I don't view myself as a YouTuber, even though we put the things on YouTube. 464 00:18:58,205 --> 00:18:58,295 Sure. 465 00:18:58,295 --> 00:18:59,195 I'm certainly not a streamer. 466 00:18:59,525 --> 00:19:01,295 Uh, though I think there is a way I could hook this 467 00:19:01,295 --> 00:19:03,575 up so people could listen in live if they wanted to. 468 00:19:03,575 --> 00:19:03,665 Sure. 469 00:19:03,905 --> 00:19:04,265 But. 470 00:19:04,875 --> 00:19:07,905 I think of this as primarily an audio first format. 471 00:19:07,935 --> 00:19:08,025 Mm-hmm. 472 00:19:08,295 --> 00:19:10,485 The fact that I have a camera on just means, oh, right. 473 00:19:10,485 --> 00:19:12,765 I should remember to put a shirt and pants on first. 474 00:19:12,825 --> 00:19:14,805 Is the medium of podcasting shifting to 475 00:19:14,805 --> 00:19:17,745 embrace video in ways it previously had not? 476 00:19:17,865 --> 00:19:18,435 Yes. 477 00:19:18,495 --> 00:19:22,575 And that, and that is one of the interesting, um, pivots right now that we're 478 00:19:22,575 --> 00:19:26,775 seeing within podcasting is more and more content is going to video first. 479 00:19:26,835 --> 00:19:30,525 Um, what that really means, especially for smaller shows that don't have 480 00:19:30,525 --> 00:19:33,825 a big audience, is you need to make sure that you're creating short. 481 00:19:33,895 --> 00:19:37,855 Clips short form content that promotes your show and get your name out there. 482 00:19:37,855 --> 00:19:41,425 'cause that's how most people are gonna discover you and engage with you. 483 00:19:41,425 --> 00:19:45,295 Um, if I can, I'll, I'll, I'll make a note here for my, for my writer. 484 00:19:45,835 --> 00:19:46,915 Um, this will go in the show notes. 485 00:19:46,915 --> 00:19:49,254 Basically, uh, there's a great graphic, um, 486 00:19:49,254 --> 00:19:52,345 that comes from one of the, uh, pod track. 487 00:19:52,735 --> 00:19:56,695 And pod track actually shows you the breakdown of views, 488 00:19:56,695 --> 00:20:01,014 not just by downloads, but by views on YouTube and by. 489 00:20:01,110 --> 00:20:03,929 By the actual social media content, number of views 490 00:20:04,199 --> 00:20:08,280 of the top, like 10 or 20 podcasts in the world. 491 00:20:08,639 --> 00:20:10,620 And it's really fascinating 'cause some of them, 492 00:20:10,620 --> 00:20:14,070 like Joe Rogan, huge heavy on audio video, right? 493 00:20:14,070 --> 00:20:18,240 And mostly on audio, some on video, and very little on social media. 494 00:20:18,240 --> 00:20:20,909 And then, um, like Amy Poer who just won the first 495 00:20:20,909 --> 00:20:23,820 Golden Globe for podcasting, she won it for her podcast. 496 00:20:23,820 --> 00:20:24,389 Good Hang. 497 00:20:24,449 --> 00:20:27,750 Most of her data is, um, it's all social media views. 498 00:20:28,350 --> 00:20:30,750 And it's very little on the download side. 499 00:20:30,750 --> 00:20:33,360 Now total downloads still pretty big, so you gotta 500 00:20:33,480 --> 00:20:35,070 take that into account when you look at the graph. 501 00:20:35,100 --> 00:20:37,139 It's just fascinating to me how much like 502 00:20:37,470 --> 00:20:40,260 visual elements are really starting to, to grow. 503 00:20:40,290 --> 00:20:41,909 Speaking of things I'm gonna do here in the next few 504 00:20:41,909 --> 00:20:44,100 weeks, I'm also headed to on-Air Fest in New York. 505 00:20:44,100 --> 00:20:46,860 So when I'm there, if anybody's, if anybody 506 00:20:46,889 --> 00:20:49,020 hears this and happens to be there, come say hi. 507 00:20:49,080 --> 00:20:51,240 But one of the big things that they're talking about, and 508 00:20:51,240 --> 00:20:53,669 one of the exciting things that's gonna be there is Netflix. 509 00:20:54,195 --> 00:20:58,245 Netflix is getting into podcasting now, and if you look at the way that 510 00:20:58,245 --> 00:21:01,155 media is growing and shifting with that, it's because they're finding 511 00:21:01,155 --> 00:21:04,425 that people are listening passively or they're watching passively 512 00:21:04,455 --> 00:21:07,725 and they need more content that people can not necessarily put their 513 00:21:07,725 --> 00:21:10,725 eyeballs on to pay attention, you know, to hear in the background when. 514 00:21:10,990 --> 00:21:13,120 You know, they're looking for entertainment 515 00:21:13,120 --> 00:21:14,050 and they're looking for things to do. 516 00:21:14,050 --> 00:21:17,080 So if Netflix can provide a podcast, they're gonna do that. 517 00:21:17,620 --> 00:21:20,290 And so it's just wild the, the shift that's 518 00:21:20,290 --> 00:21:21,790 coming to the industry in that regard. 519 00:21:21,790 --> 00:21:26,050 One thing I have noticed is that I, in the evenings, I will pull 520 00:21:26,050 --> 00:21:30,610 up TikTok, either mindlessly scroll or also curate funny videos to 521 00:21:30,610 --> 00:21:34,570 show my children, because I'm not letting them on TikTok directly. 522 00:21:35,110 --> 00:21:37,690 It, it has a bit of a, uh. 523 00:21:38,205 --> 00:21:39,435 Inappropriate problem. 524 00:21:39,435 --> 00:21:42,075 And I'm not talking, uh, like the, the sex stuff. 525 00:21:42,075 --> 00:21:43,335 I don't care. 526 00:21:43,605 --> 00:21:46,935 Truly, I don't, I don't, I feel like I'm out of step with America 527 00:21:46,935 --> 00:21:51,465 in that I do not give a crap if my children see naked people. 528 00:21:51,855 --> 00:21:51,915 Yeah. 529 00:21:52,274 --> 00:21:55,965 Compared to how much I care if they see just casual violence. 530 00:21:56,294 --> 00:21:57,165 And it is. 531 00:21:57,225 --> 00:22:00,645 But one of those things is banned and regulated heavily on these things. 532 00:22:00,794 --> 00:22:03,645 And the other is like he, he, he, he got shot in the face. 533 00:22:03,645 --> 00:22:06,345 Like what the, am I the one who's nuts? 534 00:22:06,615 --> 00:22:07,814 Am I too European for that? 535 00:22:08,804 --> 00:22:10,965 I was about to say that's a very European perspective. 536 00:22:11,355 --> 00:22:14,085 Um, but yeah, I think, I think we do a lot of times. 537 00:22:14,145 --> 00:22:17,685 We're too prudish on, on the one side without even thinking about 538 00:22:17,685 --> 00:22:19,995 the amount of violence that we're showing our kids on the other. 539 00:22:19,995 --> 00:22:20,295 I mean, 540 00:22:20,325 --> 00:22:20,475 yeah, 541 00:22:20,655 --> 00:22:23,235 there have been times, you know, I've got two young ones and I've 542 00:22:23,235 --> 00:22:26,355 been raising them in a way that's like, oh wow, that's too violent. 543 00:22:26,385 --> 00:22:29,535 Like things I used to watch as a kid, I'm like, that's too violent for them. 544 00:22:29,535 --> 00:22:30,235 I'm not gonna show them that. 545 00:22:30,235 --> 00:22:30,310 Yeah. 546 00:22:30,660 --> 00:22:31,680 Let's watch Paw Patrol. 547 00:22:31,710 --> 00:22:32,310 It's safer. 548 00:22:32,365 --> 00:22:32,825 Oh God. 549 00:22:32,825 --> 00:22:32,910 Oh God. 550 00:22:34,020 --> 00:22:36,810 I have political opinions about Paw Patrol because when 551 00:22:36,810 --> 00:22:39,150 your kid wants to watch the same in name show 15 times, 552 00:22:39,150 --> 00:22:41,310 like, oh, you're gonna build up a whole backstory on it. 553 00:22:41,490 --> 00:22:42,840 Turns out I'm not alone in this. 554 00:22:42,930 --> 00:22:46,740 There's a subreddit for this, uh, r slash Daniel Tiger Conspiracy. 555 00:22:46,770 --> 00:22:47,220 Oh, I'm on, 556 00:22:47,220 --> 00:22:48,450 there's, it's amazing. 557 00:22:49,425 --> 00:22:53,324 But the reason I bring up TikTok is I, when I'm scrolling through and trying 558 00:22:53,324 --> 00:22:56,895 to find this fun stuff, it's like, I'm gonna teach you how to use a database. 559 00:22:56,985 --> 00:22:58,665 That thing is, no, you're not flip. 560 00:22:58,844 --> 00:23:01,334 And I look at something more entertaining and light. 561 00:23:01,665 --> 00:23:01,844 Mm-hmm. 562 00:23:02,084 --> 00:23:05,925 But I do periodically watch excerpts from podcasts on it because 563 00:23:05,925 --> 00:23:09,135 the short form curated thing that is well done and then it was, 564 00:23:09,135 --> 00:23:12,314 oh, I need to track that whole thing down and see what's going on. 565 00:23:12,314 --> 00:23:12,975 Mm-hmm. 566 00:23:12,976 --> 00:23:14,625 Uh, I experiment very briefly with it. 567 00:23:15,180 --> 00:23:17,880 I don't, from my perspective, and it's probably one of me, 568 00:23:17,910 --> 00:23:22,470 my age position, and a certain demographic I inhabit where I 569 00:23:22,530 --> 00:23:25,590 have a hard time seeing a sponsor story for TikTok content. 570 00:23:25,590 --> 00:23:26,340 That makes sense. 571 00:23:26,520 --> 00:23:26,640 Mm-hmm. 572 00:23:26,880 --> 00:23:29,790 For anything even remotely approaching enterprise software. 573 00:23:29,970 --> 00:23:30,480 Okay, great. 574 00:23:30,480 --> 00:23:31,230 You're selling t-shirts. 575 00:23:31,230 --> 00:23:32,670 I'm sure it does real well, but mm-hmm. 576 00:23:32,910 --> 00:23:33,780 This is something else. 577 00:23:33,870 --> 00:23:37,830 Yeah, it's, um, TikTok is its own like. 578 00:23:38,745 --> 00:23:39,945 In TikTok is this way. 579 00:23:39,945 --> 00:23:43,065 YouTube is a little less this way now when it comes 580 00:23:43,065 --> 00:23:45,645 to short form content, but they're very insular. 581 00:23:45,645 --> 00:23:48,045 They want you to stay on their platform, which is why you just 582 00:23:48,045 --> 00:23:51,315 said, oh, I saw that and then I'm interested, so then I go find it. 583 00:23:51,315 --> 00:23:53,265 Yeah, like that is a process. 584 00:23:53,265 --> 00:23:55,815 You have to build up an audience and a following around those short 585 00:23:55,815 --> 00:23:58,725 form pieces of content to get people to the point where they're 586 00:23:58,725 --> 00:24:01,935 motivated enough to leave the platform that they're addicted to. 587 00:24:02,345 --> 00:24:06,065 To find, to find your show or to, you know, leave it just long enough 588 00:24:06,065 --> 00:24:09,215 to hit subscribe on Apple Podcast or whatever they're listening on. 589 00:24:09,485 --> 00:24:12,485 Even with the sales, the TikTok sh TikTok shop, for example. 590 00:24:12,485 --> 00:24:14,075 I see things periodically I think are 591 00:24:14,075 --> 00:24:16,355 great, but I also know how this game works. 592 00:24:16,355 --> 00:24:19,175 And if I go and I buy the dumb thing on the TikTok shop, it's 593 00:24:19,175 --> 00:24:21,365 gonna haunt me around the internet for the rest of whatever. 594 00:24:21,485 --> 00:24:21,575 Mm-hmm. 595 00:24:21,815 --> 00:24:25,145 But what I'll do is I'll punch in the, the, uh, whatever it's, I'm looking for. 596 00:24:25,665 --> 00:24:29,475 Amazon always, always has the thing for less 597 00:24:29,475 --> 00:24:32,565 money than TikTok does, and that's single click. 598 00:24:32,565 --> 00:24:36,705 And then like you listen carefully and you hear a dude like squealing 599 00:24:36,705 --> 00:24:40,545 tires burning rubber around the corner as he like pulls a seven 600 00:24:40,545 --> 00:24:43,395 20 spin into your front of the yard to hand you your package. 601 00:24:43,695 --> 00:24:43,755 Yeah. 602 00:24:43,755 --> 00:24:44,175 It's like. 603 00:24:44,590 --> 00:24:47,020 Well boy, are are, are you an Amazon package? 604 00:24:47,020 --> 00:24:49,000 Because you came so quickly, I'm worried something 605 00:24:49,000 --> 00:24:51,340 truly messed up is happening behind the seeds. 606 00:24:51,460 --> 00:24:52,360 Yeah, same story. 607 00:24:52,450 --> 00:24:54,130 We recently started getting Amazon trucks 608 00:24:54,130 --> 00:24:55,540 around here, so I know what you're talking about 609 00:24:55,660 --> 00:24:57,850 Here in San Francisco, we've, we've had them for a while. 610 00:24:58,060 --> 00:25:00,460 Some places do it with drones now, which is great. 611 00:25:00,520 --> 00:25:03,280 Uh, smack into a building recently somewhere and 612 00:25:03,280 --> 00:25:05,020 they had to like stop the fig. It's like Wow. 613 00:25:05,560 --> 00:25:07,060 On drone strike Genius. 614 00:25:07,065 --> 00:25:07,275 Yeah. 615 00:25:07,480 --> 00:25:07,570 Yeah. 616 00:25:07,570 --> 00:25:10,270 Around here they get shot, shot out of the sky by shotguns. 617 00:25:10,270 --> 00:25:10,780 I'm sure. 618 00:25:11,170 --> 00:25:12,700 I'm not at all surprised. 619 00:25:12,700 --> 00:25:13,930 It's like, have you heard of rednecks? 620 00:25:15,550 --> 00:25:16,150 They're everywhere. 621 00:25:16,150 --> 00:25:18,310 So you're doing a fair bit of stuff for the podcast now. 622 00:25:18,310 --> 00:25:20,980 If people wanna go to learn more about what you're doing, 623 00:25:20,980 --> 00:25:23,170 how your process is, get your advice on this stuff. 624 00:25:23,170 --> 00:25:25,030 'cause I used, I used to answer questions that 625 00:25:25,030 --> 00:25:26,860 people would say, oh, what gear should I use? 626 00:25:26,860 --> 00:25:29,080 I'm like, talk to Chris. 627 00:25:29,140 --> 00:25:30,190 It's the right answer. 628 00:25:30,370 --> 00:25:31,360 I know it works for me. 629 00:25:31,360 --> 00:25:32,260 I am not you. 630 00:25:32,410 --> 00:25:32,800 Great. 631 00:25:32,800 --> 00:25:33,490 I have different con. 632 00:25:34,220 --> 00:25:34,940 Talk to Chris. 633 00:25:35,030 --> 00:25:36,380 Where should they go to talk to Chris? 634 00:25:36,470 --> 00:25:38,210 Check out humble pod.com. 635 00:25:38,360 --> 00:25:40,820 Um, if you wanna learn more about what we do, how we 636 00:25:40,820 --> 00:25:42,980 help people, and, uh, get directly in touch with me. 637 00:25:42,980 --> 00:25:44,330 You can also find me on LinkedIn. 638 00:25:44,330 --> 00:25:44,930 I'm Chris Hill. 639 00:25:44,930 --> 00:25:46,910 I'm one of a million, which is always awesome. 640 00:25:46,940 --> 00:25:49,370 You can find me there in just about anywhere else online 641 00:25:49,370 --> 00:25:52,970 at Christoph or Humble Pod at Humble Pod on all the major 642 00:25:52,970 --> 00:25:56,300 platforms outside of, um, the one formerly known as Twitter. 643 00:25:56,360 --> 00:25:57,890 I, I'd forgotten I'd done that. 644 00:25:57,910 --> 00:26:01,120 So when I finished recording a, uh, weekly last week in aw 645 00:26:01,120 --> 00:26:03,970 WS podcast, I have to let you know that it's been uploaded. 646 00:26:04,090 --> 00:26:05,680 So I built a custom Slack app. 647 00:26:05,680 --> 00:26:07,750 So I hit a button and it sends a notification off. 648 00:26:07,750 --> 00:26:09,400 And that Slack app is of course called 649 00:26:09,520 --> 00:26:12,790 Humble Prod, which I think is just awesome. 650 00:26:12,820 --> 00:26:15,430 And you're like, did you, did I, I did that without comment. 651 00:26:15,430 --> 00:26:17,950 And you're like, did, did you just like, yes I did. 652 00:26:18,010 --> 00:26:18,580 I loved it. 653 00:26:18,670 --> 00:26:19,480 I thought it was great. 654 00:26:19,510 --> 00:26:20,980 You can't have fun with people's names 655 00:26:20,980 --> 00:26:22,390 'cause people are very sensitive about that. 656 00:26:22,390 --> 00:26:22,480 Mm-hmm. 657 00:26:22,515 --> 00:26:23,915 But company names are generally fair game. 658 00:26:24,355 --> 00:26:25,735 Oh yeah, we, we use Humble. 659 00:26:25,735 --> 00:26:27,115 Yeah, I'll use Humble whatever. 660 00:26:27,504 --> 00:26:31,735 Like if I can have an excuse to have a humble blog or you know, 661 00:26:31,764 --> 00:26:34,375 some other humble thing, I will try and put Humble behind it. 662 00:26:34,375 --> 00:26:36,145 The problem is there's already humble bundle and 663 00:26:36,625 --> 00:26:38,304 other companies out there using Humble a lot. 664 00:26:38,304 --> 00:26:39,085 Baking combination. 665 00:26:39,085 --> 00:26:39,774 Make a crumble pod. 666 00:26:39,925 --> 00:26:40,585 Yeah, there we go. 667 00:26:40,645 --> 00:26:41,064 There we go. 668 00:26:41,125 --> 00:26:41,665 Thank you Chris. 669 00:26:41,665 --> 00:26:43,284 It is always a pleasure to talk to you. 670 00:26:43,284 --> 00:26:43,855 Absolutely. 671 00:26:43,855 --> 00:26:44,754 Cory, same to you. 672 00:26:44,814 --> 00:26:46,945 Chris Hill, CEO, and owner of Humble Pott. 673 00:26:47,185 --> 00:26:50,155 I'm cloud economist Cory Quinn, and this is screaming in the Cloud. 674 00:26:50,425 --> 00:26:52,764 If you've enjoyed this podcast, please leave a five 675 00:26:52,764 --> 00:26:54,865 star review on your podcast platform of choice. 676 00:26:54,865 --> 00:26:58,254 Whereas if you've hated this podcast, please leave a five star review on 677 00:26:58,254 --> 00:27:01,825 your podcast platform of choice along with angry, insulting comment, and 678 00:27:01,825 --> 00:27:05,035 then we'll have Chris remove that particular platform from distribution.