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Welcome to working towards our purpose. A podcast that

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offers a different perspective on what a job can be. For everyone

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out there that's heard that voice in the back their head asking for something

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more, it's time to listen to it. I'm your host, Gino, and

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join me as I interview people who have decided to work in their own

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purpose. Together, we will learn, become inspired, and

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hopefully find our own path towards working in our purpose.

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Joining me today is Carolyn Johnson, who is a licensed marriage and

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family therapist out of San Diego, California, together with her business

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partner, Raya, They have created connected seen and heard, which is a

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therapy practice centered around connection, and the human needs belong.

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She's also the host of her podcast connecting the collective she's a

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mom, and she's also one of my podcasting clients, and we've worked together over the

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past few years. Carolyn, thank you so much for being here. I'm excited that you're

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here. Thank you, Gino. I am so honored to be here.

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Such a such a privilege. So can you tell us a little

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bit in your own words, how you would describe yourself and what you do and

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and that sort of thing? Yeah. It's funny

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if you know, the the first thing that comes to my mind is I am

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a mom. I would say as my, you know, as my my journey, my

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life journey has evolved. That probably rolls to the top right now

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as all consuming and probably one of

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the most, if not, the most rewarding experience I have ever had in my

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life. And on a purely professional realm, I am

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a therapist. I didn't have a background in

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psychology. I don't come from, like, a family of

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therapists or whatnot, so that was somewhat of, like, a

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like, a high end to the right choice that I made at one point in

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my life, and that has been an absolutely

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exceptional experience. I have probably mentioned

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before in in different podcast episodes that when I

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sort of began sitting with clients for the first time, I really felt

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like, oh, Like, I'm home. I have found my calling.

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I have found the thing professionally that most

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closely aligns with my being, like, my way of my my

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human way of being the way I conceptualize the world. It

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just it brings me joy. It is truly a privilege to sit with people in

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that space. is challenging. It allows me and

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requires me to consistently be growing and evolving,

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which I love that's something, you know, staying curious and, like, invested in

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life, not stagnant. That's important to me. I have

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brothers I'm a sister. I am, you know, a daughter to my parents.

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I'm actually get to go home tomorrow, which I'm so excited about

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for a little summer vacation with the girls. And, you

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know, from, again, from a professional standpoint, Raya and I own

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our group practice. Raya and I have worked together for I don't

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know, like, 14 years now in a variety of different settings and

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created, connected. It was really born out of this, like,

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desperate desire to provide opportunity

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space, like experiences where people felt

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deeply authentically connected to one another. We

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watched the transformative power of that happen in treatment

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settings year after year after year. and felt like,

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why can't we create that in a private practice setting? So the

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practice definitely has clinical space. Right? We do individual

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couples, family therapy. but we also do

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our best. COVID put a little bit of a wrench in it, but do our

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best to create in person opportunities for people who might

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not otherwise meet one another to connect. So

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through workshops, like experiential sort of trainings, things like

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that, So to, you know, to bring people together to

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really, like, watch and nurture and foster the,

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like, the power of authentic connection.

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That's that's definitely a lot of things, and I definitely have so many questions for

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you about all of it. But I think I wanna start with, like, how you

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got into therapy and I know that you had mentioned in one of your

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own podcast episodes that you had sort of a sales, corporate ish background.

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Like, can you talk to me a little bit about, like, that transition and how

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that was like for you? Yeah. So out

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of college, I live downtown Chicago. I'm from Chicago originally. I

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worked in a sales you know, that was my profession. I was in sales. I

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actually worked for a telecom company. So I sold audio,

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video, and web conferencing into any

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company that did anything, didn't matter. Like, you know, nothing was off

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limits. It was just if they had a need. And so I got to learn

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so much about so many different types of people and so many

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different types of businesses, which at 23 or 24, I

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now know, was, like, such a blessing because I got to walk

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into and kinda learn the inner workings of how different corporations

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worked. And that was a huge company. It became a global

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company over the duration that I worked there. So I really saw, you know,

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what, like, small corporate to giant corporate looked and

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felt like. And it was really challenging. I appreciated

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how much I learned because I'm not a techie person, so I was consistently

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out of my comfort zone. I left that company, and I actually

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moved on to work for a smaller I guess, smaller in comparison to

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this giant global company. But it was technically a

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publishing company that sort of then expanded They had trade

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publications. They hosted trade shows, smaller

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workshops and conferences. And so I was I did a variety of different

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sales things, both ad space as well as worked on the trade show

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and and, like, event side of it. And that I

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traveled a lot which will provided me the opportunity. At that point, I was living

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out here in San Diego provided me the opportunity to see my family a lot,

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but it was it was exhausting. So it was, you know, it was I felt

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very blessed, but it was also difficult. And I sort of became disillusioned.

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And so I worked for years with my therapist She would

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ask me these questions. If money wasn't an issue and time

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was of no consequence, what would you do? And

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finally, one day, I remember, like, so brave. I just

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looked her. I was like, I would do what you do. Mhmm. She's

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like, Alright. Let's go. And it took

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me some time after that. I had to do prerequisites because I

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wasn't a psych undergrad, but

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I I realized that the thing I loved

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so much about my sales jobs were the relationships

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I created with my customers. Right? Like, I would walk in to

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see my customers, and we'd end up talking about whatever the

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business portion of the conversation was for 5 minutes

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and we'd chat about, you know, like, their kids or whoever got married or how

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is this going with your husband or so on and so forth. And

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That part I loved. I loved so much, and I I think I realized

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for the first time that people will characterize you in

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certain ways and I had heard before, like, I'm a people person or

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I like to be around, you know, a relationship person. But I think

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I realized that Yes. That that is a, like, a

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characteristic of mine, but it it also is a strength. Right? It's

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something that I could turn into a skill and a profession.

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to really authentically, genuinely be connected to people. I just

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didn't have the skills to help them grow and heal. That's the part I

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was missing. And so that's regards school came in.

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So was it a, like, quick does it like, when you

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finally realized that, were you able to then make a decision and then

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go for it, or was there still a lot of, like, fear behind it of,

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like, oh, I don't know if I can do that. It's what I want, but

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I don't know if I can do that. because that's something that I've personally struggled

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with for a while with a lot of things. Totally.

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Yeah. I mean, fear is so real. And I think I think my

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yes. The short answer is yes. I remember saying that in my

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therapist's office, and

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The next step that I took which felt minimal risk as

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compared to grad school was like, alright. I'll sign up for a prereq.

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and just see how that goes. Right? So it was, like, baby

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steps. That's sort of how I moved into it. And I would say probably the

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largest hurdle for me was Honestly, the

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financial piece is, like, I'm gonna go into a tremendous amount of debt

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to go to grad school, and I will make significantly

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less in this new profession that I'm choosing as compared to where I'm at, and

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that felt risky.

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And I got a lot of outside feedback. Like,

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that's not really very smart. Right? Like, I'm a young person

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entering into my career. you have no debt and you're in a

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profession that could make you really you know, could, like, could could provide some

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financial stability. and you're gonna take this turn. And so I had

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to grapple with that a lot and kept coming up against, like,

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what's smart, what's acceptable, what's you know, good, quote,

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unquote choice versus, like, no. Like, I know in my

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heart. I know in my soul that is my path. And it's

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going to be, you know, more difficult in certain

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ways, but it's also like, it's my quality of

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life. I ended up at points just hating going

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into work when I worked in the corporate sales side of things. And I with

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I I use the word over and

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over again, and I hope it doesn't it's not it's because I it is so

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appropriate. It is a privilege to do what I

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do. like, the space that people allow me, invite

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me into in their world that that's

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sacred. Right? And I get to see that side of

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people and, like, human beings, just our community.

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the brave, the courageous, the resilient, the growth minded,

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like, part of people all the time. And that's Like,

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in that's inspiring, and I wasn't inspired in my

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last job. I was just good at it. You know? And that felt good for

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a while, but Not forever.

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Yeah. So I remember also from one of your podcasts that

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you said something about, like, making decisions with your head or your

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heart And I remember, like, that kinda striking me because

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I feel like I more so often make

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decisions with my head because I'm a very logical person. I went to engineering school.

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Like, I was -- I was gonna ask you, what is your background? because I

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only know you as a, you know, podcast, you know. I know you in this

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space. Yeah. I was a mechanical engineer, and I worked for military

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defense contractors for about 6 or 7 years.

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So very analytical, very, like, matter of fact,

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So for me, that transition of getting out of that

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mindset and, like, patterned ways of thinking was

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very difficult. And I I guess now that I'm looking

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at my transition in comparing it to yours, it was also a very slow thing

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because it was started on the side. No risk. Still have my paycheck.

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Yep. And then kinda built some confidence and then built, like you were saying,

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relationships and having people, like, be super appreciative of the thing

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that I'm doing. And then feeling that and being, like, oh, this feels

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right. I think I need to do more of this. And then eventually,

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getting all the way into it, was it similar for you, like, when you maybe

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first took that class, was it something that, like, you took the 1st class and

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then you felt it? Right? Even though people were saying, like, hey. This is probably

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not a good decision logically.

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Yeah. I I remember so school has always been hard

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for me. Academics, traditional academics are difficult.

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I I'm not afraid of hard work. I never have been, so I would

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work really hard and get, you know, good grades, but it was

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grueling to do that. Whereas, again, comparison,

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like, athletics came pretty naturally. I still worked really hard,

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but I felt like that was more of a fluid us. Whereas

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academics were always such a strain and so clunky. So

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going back to grad school felt really daunting because of that past

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experience. But when I started taking my prerequisites and psych,

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I was so fascinated by the material. And that's when I

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was like, oh, so This is an arena that's difficult and you knew you were

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gonna have to just muscle through it, but I'm looking forward to

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it. And you had said, you know, you

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kinda tiptoed and it was risk free. I did this thing on the side but

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had my paycheck. I held on to my sales job

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throughout my entire first year of grad

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school. I worked full time. It my job morphed because I

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can no longer travel, but I you know, they were very gracious and sort

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of, you know, adjusted my job, you know, in order to

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accommodate. But I worked all day during you know, I worked full

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time during the day, and then I went to school all night 4 days a

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week. So, yeah, I, like, I held on tight

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to what felt stable until,

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you know, then you, like, almost lose your mind because that's not sustainable and

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then finally relinquish that. very, very similar to me.

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I was home for the pandemic doing both jobs, like,

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never leaving my desk or my apartment at all. And got to the end of

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2020, and I was, like, insane. And, like, I can't I can't do both of

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these. Like, I have to pick 1. So it was

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Interesting in the similarities between that. Yeah. So

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I I also wanna maybe transition a little bit into talking about,

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like, being your authentic self. And I know it's kind of like a

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buzz word nowadays, and maybe it's not the best

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use of words, but I think it gets the phone across. For me, like,

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I think part of my transition was getting closer to who I

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wanted to be. Did you find that similar in in your experience?

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And I guess, like I don't know. Talk us talk to us about, like, how

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you were able to be more yourself in the work

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and through the transition. Yeah.

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Yeah. I'm just thinking. I yes.

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Like, I I can say definitively. that

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I am my authentic being in the therapy

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room. Right? Like, I bring my personality

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into that space, and I I truly believe it's

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what allows me to so deeply connect with my clients.

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if I back up, I I think earlier I was saying,

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you know, people would describe me as a people person or, you

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know, I have I'm not a person who has the a zillion friends,

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but I do have really deep close friendships that I've had

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since, you know, childhood. So I've always known that I was a

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relationship person. But those were

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sort of, like, descriptors. Like, I have brown hair. Like, they were just

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it was, like, how people characterized me. And I think

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I distance myself from those things because it

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didn't feel like a

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strength or a skill that could then transfer into

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professional or career. path if that

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makes sense. And so it was like, oh, though those are those are just things,

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you know, I'm that I am or that I do, but they're

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irrelevant because not career they they're not associated with

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a career. And and, again, it took I mean, it took me

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6, 7 years in sales to realize

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No. Like, that's my superpower. That is where

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I feel most genuinely me

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Because for me to ask curious questions and be invested in somebody that

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happens in a snap. That's that is my most authentic way of being.

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I love people. People are fascinating to me. And I can very

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quickly move to a space of compassion and empathy. I think

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also I have had experiences where that

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from my perspective has felt like it's been taken advantage of. Right? Like,

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don't mistake kindness for weakness type of thing. You know? And I I do my

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own work in setting boundaries and being clear because I want

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to treat people well. I on the side of, like, trust. and, you

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know, giving people the benefit of the doubt. And so I think for a

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while, I I tried to move away from that side of me because it

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didn't feel like it was safe to lean into it because I felt like I

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was being taken advantage of. And that was, like, more in the corporate

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space. And then when I realized I can be all of me, I just

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need to add boundaries and be really clear about where I end

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and you, whoever you are, start. that's when I could

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really begin to, like, settle into that authentic

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me and begin to give more time and

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attention to these things that I just thought were sort of like silly

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descriptors, but are, like, actually my deepest

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gift. Mhmm. Yeah. I think it is funny how, like, you

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don't recognize your own strength to something

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that's like important or or valuable. It's

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like, I think like, you it's just something that you don't even really think about

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until enough people kinda say it to you, and then you're like, Maybe I

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am good at this particular thing. Maybe that's what helps me in this

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particular job or a particular task. For me, it's been something

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that I've been noticing more and more. but only ever since I've

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quit and, like, started working on my own that I've noticed, like, things that

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maybe I am good at and -- Yeah. -- giving yourself credit for things and

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And also just because you were saying before, like, you're pretty linear or logical,

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I think inviting that more creative abstract thought

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process because On paper, x isn't necessarily

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relatable or transferable. But if you live in a more abstract

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creative world, x can turn into,

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right, the, like, the most transferable skill in whatever profession.

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So just allowing that, yeah, like, broader thinking,

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which is sometimes really hard, you know, depending on how you grew up

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or how you're hardwired or the environment you system. But, yeah,

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I think that piece too is, like, hey. Wait. Let's think bigger than

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this. Right? Like, let's let's open up perception a little bit.

294
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Mhmm. Yeah. Totally. So I do do wanna talk a little bit more about, like,

295
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your business and and how it got started. And I think maybe the biggest question

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I have for you is I know that you've started it with a partner, and

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you said you've worked with Rhea for a while now. What is it

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like to work with somebody and to trust somebody

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in something as, I guess, important as your livelihood in the way

300
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that, you know, you make money. Has it been easy

301
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or Or difficult. And, like, how did that relationship start into

302
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a business? Yeah. All of those

303
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things. I I So back to your question about head

304
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or heart. I'm a heart person. I when something

305
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feels right, I lean into it. I

306
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I could absolutely employ some of my head more often. You know,

307
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like, I don't think things through very well. Like, that's not my natural way of

308
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being. I'm not a planner. I'm not very strategic. Yeah. That feels great. Let's

309
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do that thing. And that's how Rhea is too. So she and I

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are similar in the risk that we're willing to take. We are similar

311
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and that we're feelers. Right? And so we can move forward with something

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that just like, yeah. That, like, feels like it fits us.

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It is such a blessing. We have very complementary strengths.

314
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And so from the organizational side, the system

315
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side of things. Guy can go out, do podcast, network,

316
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meet people, do all day long. I love doing that stuff. It's

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energizing to me. I genuinely appreciate those

318
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opportunities. Reya gets to keep the books and make sure payroll is

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tight, and she's our HR person, and she's so good at that. And she

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genuinely enjoys making sure that, like, the business side of the

321
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business is running well. I could never do what she does and

322
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she could never do what I do. And so that's, like, such a gift

323
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Right? There's definitely challenges as we have

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grown. I mean, in being business partners, there's been monumental

325
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life changes, marriages, babies,

326
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different houses, locations, things like that. And so

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we have learned to dance with one another when one person has

328
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to dip out because of a life experience. The other picks up the

329
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slack and vice versa. And I think that, for the most part, we do that

330
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really fluidly. but that's, you know, that's been a

331
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learning curve for sure. And in terms of trusting

332
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her, I just did from the beginning. Rhea is

333
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so she's loyal, like, fiercely loyal.

334
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She's transparent. She's direct. There's no bullshit. Like, I know what

335
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I'm gonna get from her. She doesn't play games. She is what she is.

336
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Right? And that allowed me to lean in very quickly.

337
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You know? And I I don't know how she would describe me, but she and

338
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I have had the conversation, a person that you know, Alyssa,

339
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former colleague of ours, had asked us in one of our pod test series.

340
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How did you know you would be good business partners? And Ray and I both

341
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answered. We didn't know because we didn't even know what it meant to

342
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be business partners. We just knew that we could trust one another

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in whatever we were going to come up against and, like, work through it

344
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compassionately, honestly, with the mission.

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And both of us are incredibly hard workers and have

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not only a, like, a fierce passion for this industry,

347
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but a commitment to working because it provides for our

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family. So it's not sort of like a, you know, a a side

349
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thing. It's it's something that we're passionate about on, like, a,

350
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you know, a mission and a purpose level, but also a it provides for

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the people that we love the most. And so that's a strong driver for us

352
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as well. So the relationship definitely came

353
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1st, and then it was kinda it just -- Oh, yeah. -- came out

354
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naturally kinda to start the business. We would sit. We were working at a

355
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previous treatment center, and we would sit on our break on this couch. We would

356
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eat our lunch, and we would draw and write all

357
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the things. Like, okay. What's this just like right? It's like this was create a

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process of our vision and our mission. We still have it in our

359
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practice. It's in the breakroom. The first logo we drew.

360
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You know? Like, we I'm chills. Like, we would just brainstorm and it would

361
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be this invigorating process when things felt really

362
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tough. about, like, what we would create. That was a slow burn

363
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too. We would we would just, like, have these creative rainstorms about our

364
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name and our logo and the vibe and the energy, and it

365
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took us a long time to get there. But, you know, now now we've been

366
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here for, I think, almost 8 years.

367
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Yeah. That's crazy. It is crazy. And it's interesting too because I I think I

368
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just noticed a connection about, like, the excitement that you had about it, and then

369
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that being able to get you through the difficult part similarly to when you went

370
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to grad school. And you were -- Yes. -- excited about it. And then that

371
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was, like, drove you even though it's difficult and hard to figure out. Just being

372
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excited about it is something that I think isn't really valued a

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lot or can't really tangibly be valued sometimes. But I'm

374
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noticing is, like, the biggest thing for me to be able to even get

375
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anything done. It's just -- Yeah. -- am I excited to do it? Like, do

376
00:23:18,710 --> 00:23:22,215
I want to be doing it? Yes. I'm working with a business coach

377
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presently, which I've never done before, and it's been, like, such a

378
00:23:25,815 --> 00:23:29,595
cool experience. We're really in this growth

379
00:23:30,120 --> 00:23:33,960
process at connected. And so that's been it's been neat

380
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to bring in another voice and another perspective and a

381
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professional, you know, an expert in it. But one of the things early on, I

382
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said to her, she's like, alright. So, like, give me the, you know, sort of

383
00:23:43,865 --> 00:23:47,325
the parts of your business. And as we were talking about

384
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what a reorganization will look like and where the growth where I

385
00:23:51,580 --> 00:23:54,960
see the growth. I consistently kept coming back to

386
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I have to have. They're I I greatly

387
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appreciate really genuinely every aspect of our business.

388
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And there are some things that I am fiercely passionate about that

389
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aren't necessarily, like, you know, from

390
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a purely business side of things, like the moneymaker, quote

391
00:24:13,885 --> 00:24:16,685
unquote, right, which is what a business coach is sort of coaching you on. It's

392
00:24:16,685 --> 00:24:19,185
like, how do you how, you know, how do you sustain your business?

393
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And and I kept saying I have to have passion projects. It like,

394
00:24:24,330 --> 00:24:27,870
I have to have things that I'm really that that invigorate

395
00:24:28,170 --> 00:24:31,585
me. Right? So I'm in a very like, an

396
00:24:31,585 --> 00:24:35,185
amazing spot and that I I genuinely love working with my

397
00:24:35,185 --> 00:24:38,570
clients. I genuinely love supervising. I genuinely love

398
00:24:38,570 --> 00:24:42,250
networking. But then, like, things like introducing the podcast. She's like, what's this

399
00:24:42,250 --> 00:24:46,090
podcast about? I said, it's my baby. It's my passion project. I'm doing it.

400
00:24:46,090 --> 00:24:49,785
I don't know. I don't have training, but I'm having so much fun doing it.

401
00:24:49,785 --> 00:24:53,545
She's like, cool. Roll with it. Right? But having those little

402
00:24:53,545 --> 00:24:57,310
nuggets and they change and evolve over time. Right? And so

403
00:24:57,310 --> 00:25:00,930
I think having the courage to, like, really step into those

404
00:25:01,070 --> 00:25:04,805
because they do. They light up and already bright space, but they, you know,

405
00:25:04,805 --> 00:25:08,485
they just they make it even better. So -- That's that's

406
00:25:08,485 --> 00:25:12,330
awesome. And I'm really curious about, like, how it's been to work with

407
00:25:12,330 --> 00:25:15,850
a business coach and, like, I I don't know. I I've thought

408
00:25:15,850 --> 00:25:19,630
about, like, that for a while, but always been

409
00:25:19,715 --> 00:25:23,555
I clearly have, like, trust issues because I always think, like, the first thought

410
00:25:23,555 --> 00:25:26,515
is, like, well, what if they don't help me? And then, like, they seem some

411
00:25:26,595 --> 00:25:30,230
somewhere wrong or, like, probably just out of fear, those those

412
00:25:30,230 --> 00:25:33,130
thoughts are coming. But -- Yeah. -- how is it to, like, work with somebody

413
00:25:33,350 --> 00:25:37,025
and kinda I mean, you're trusting them with your your business and your

414
00:25:37,025 --> 00:25:40,785
growth and your future, how was it like to choose a business

415
00:25:40,785 --> 00:25:44,260
coach? Yeah. A lot. like, everything in my life,

416
00:25:44,260 --> 00:25:46,760
apparently, Jean, I'm realizing it was a long process.

417
00:25:50,100 --> 00:25:53,875
I talked to a lot of colleagues, and I got several names.

418
00:25:54,495 --> 00:25:57,715
I interviewed several several

419
00:25:58,175 --> 00:26:01,880
3. I I researched several. I talked to 3 different

420
00:26:01,880 --> 00:26:05,720
business coaches. And, you know, as as it turns out, I ended up picking the

421
00:26:05,720 --> 00:26:09,485
first person that I talked to. And, originally, I was like,

422
00:26:09,485 --> 00:26:12,785
wow. She's bold. She's direct, but, like,

423
00:26:13,165 --> 00:26:16,925
I'm uncomfortable a little bit by some of the questions that she's asking because it's

424
00:26:16,925 --> 00:26:20,030
like you're looking under the hood already. we don't even know each other. What? But

425
00:26:20,030 --> 00:26:23,710
I'm like, that's but I kept coming back to that. It's

426
00:26:23,710 --> 00:26:27,555
like, maybe that's the nudge I need. You know? I I

427
00:26:27,555 --> 00:26:31,155
got to see her yesterday. I walked in. I'm like, so

428
00:26:31,155 --> 00:26:34,835
happy I'm here. I love working with

429
00:26:34,835 --> 00:26:38,610
her. I love having, you know, again, just like

430
00:26:38,610 --> 00:26:42,450
a new perspective. She you know, I asked her. I said, do people feel like

431
00:26:42,450 --> 00:26:46,215
they come for a therapy session? And she's like, yeah. But I'm really relational.

432
00:26:46,435 --> 00:26:49,735
So I picked somebody who's very much about

433
00:26:50,195 --> 00:26:53,955
developing a relationship because for me, trust is huge. Right?

434
00:26:53,955 --> 00:26:56,890
And I don't want just like a black and white here are the numbers. Here's

435
00:26:56,890 --> 00:27:00,570
your homework. Come back with it done. Right? Like, I feel like she's invested

436
00:27:00,570 --> 00:27:04,275
in me, and that means everything. and I'm equal parts invested

437
00:27:04,275 --> 00:27:08,035
in her and our work together. So but, yeah,

438
00:27:08,035 --> 00:27:11,550
like, when you start bringing in you know, because you start with, like, budget and

439
00:27:11,550 --> 00:27:15,230
finances. And it's like, you wanna see what? Right?

440
00:27:15,230 --> 00:27:18,830
And, like, is that allowed? Can I show you that? You know, it's it's it

441
00:27:18,830 --> 00:27:22,575
was an interesting process, and Yeah. Again and it took

442
00:27:22,575 --> 00:27:25,615
me a long time to pull the trigger. Ray and I talked about it for

443
00:27:25,615 --> 00:27:29,410
a long time. Do you know, this is how long I'll totally honest

444
00:27:29,410 --> 00:27:31,270
with you right now. So in 2021,

445
00:27:33,410 --> 00:27:37,090
like November 2021, we did this big

446
00:27:37,090 --> 00:27:40,625
goal setting retreat and I had put on my goals

447
00:27:40,845 --> 00:27:44,525
for q42022 to have

448
00:27:44,525 --> 00:27:48,280
found a business coach. And it took

449
00:27:48,280 --> 00:27:52,040
me until, I don't know, this summer, I started working with her

450
00:27:52,040 --> 00:27:55,755
a couple months ago. So, yeah, it took yeah,

451
00:27:55,815 --> 00:27:59,195
a year and a half to to really, like, move through that.

452
00:27:59,575 --> 00:28:03,175
But we're here. I'm doing it, and I'm so happy. I am.

453
00:28:03,175 --> 00:28:06,920
It's it's been amazing. That's awesome. I'm glad you found

454
00:28:06,920 --> 00:28:10,680
somebody that you can, you know, really get some help from and excited

455
00:28:10,680 --> 00:28:13,900
to see what they bring to your business, for sure. Me too.

456
00:28:15,285 --> 00:28:18,965
So I do also wanna talk about the word connection

457
00:28:18,965 --> 00:28:22,550
because I know it's such a very big theme in, like,

458
00:28:22,550 --> 00:28:26,250
everything that you do in your podcast and your business. Can you maybe,

459
00:28:26,710 --> 00:28:30,395
I don't know, just, like, talk about what connection means to you why it's

460
00:28:30,395 --> 00:28:34,155
important. And because for me, personally, I think it's something that I'm

461
00:28:34,155 --> 00:28:37,915
only recently finding out is super important. I think

462
00:28:37,915 --> 00:28:41,240
for the longest time, I was a loner and, like,

463
00:28:41,780 --> 00:28:44,900
almost, like, proud of the fact that I could, like, never be bored by myself

464
00:28:44,900 --> 00:28:48,645
and, like, always just learning something new or you know, figuring something out.

465
00:28:48,645 --> 00:28:52,185
But now I'm realizing, like, oh, it's much more,

466
00:28:52,725 --> 00:28:56,245
I don't know, impactful when you do something with somebody versus just by

467
00:28:56,245 --> 00:29:00,000
yourself. So can you talk to me about, like, why connection is important to

468
00:29:00,000 --> 00:29:03,600
you? Yes. It's everything. It's like the secret

469
00:29:03,600 --> 00:29:04,805
sauce in life.

470
00:29:08,325 --> 00:29:11,925
I I have described myself as a people person or a

471
00:29:11,925 --> 00:29:15,610
relational person It is always how I've operated.

472
00:29:15,750 --> 00:29:19,350
It is how, again, like, I feel when I'm in

473
00:29:19,350 --> 00:29:22,965
connection with other people, it feels like there's a deeper purpose a

474
00:29:22,965 --> 00:29:26,645
greater level of satisfaction for me. And,

475
00:29:26,645 --> 00:29:30,425
right, if we struggle with trust, that's greatly impacted our ability

476
00:29:30,565 --> 00:29:33,680
to, you know, deeply authenticate -- basically connect with other people.

477
00:29:34,060 --> 00:29:37,900
I remember literally, do you know I remember? I remember what

478
00:29:37,900 --> 00:29:41,340
I was wearing. I remember what the room looked like when I was sitting in

479
00:29:41,340 --> 00:29:44,935
Grad school. It was a night class, obviously. And I learned

480
00:29:44,935 --> 00:29:48,775
about attachment theory, which is how I practice. It's how Raya

481
00:29:48,775 --> 00:29:51,490
practice is. It's the foundation of our

482
00:29:52,530 --> 00:29:56,370
practice. It is how, you know, every person who comes on as

483
00:29:56,370 --> 00:30:00,155
an employee practices from at least like an

484
00:30:00,395 --> 00:30:03,775
you know, that at least has a, like, a strong connection to attachment

485
00:30:03,915 --> 00:30:07,650
theory. But when I learned and I I I won't

486
00:30:07,650 --> 00:30:11,030
go into, like, you know, the deep details, but attachment theory

487
00:30:11,490 --> 00:30:14,630
states that in order to survive

488
00:30:15,135 --> 00:30:18,835
as a human being, when we're young, when we're infants,

489
00:30:19,375 --> 00:30:23,130
we have to be connected to another human being. Our literal

490
00:30:23,190 --> 00:30:26,950
survival depends on human connection. And so

491
00:30:26,950 --> 00:30:30,790
when you study how human beings operate in the world, we talk

492
00:30:30,790 --> 00:30:34,155
about connection as if it is a choice.

493
00:30:34,615 --> 00:30:38,395
And I think as an adult, we bring our head into the equation,

494
00:30:38,455 --> 00:30:41,930
and it feels like it's a choice. And we do have

495
00:30:41,930 --> 00:30:45,610
impact on that, and we do have influence over who we connect

496
00:30:45,610 --> 00:30:49,235
with and how we connect with. And on the most primal

497
00:30:49,295 --> 00:30:53,055
level connection is a survival instinct. It

498
00:30:53,055 --> 00:30:56,790
is how we are, like, neurologically hardwired is to

499
00:30:56,790 --> 00:31:00,550
connect to other people. It is what drives us. And so if

500
00:31:00,550 --> 00:31:04,365
you if you, like, can accept that as a foundation of our

501
00:31:04,365 --> 00:31:08,045
being and then embrace the richness and the

502
00:31:08,045 --> 00:31:11,820
beauty of human connection with risk. Right? Because The more connected

503
00:31:11,820 --> 00:31:14,560
we are, the more vulnerable we are to

504
00:31:15,180 --> 00:31:19,020
rejection, let down, disappointment, abandonment, all those

505
00:31:19,020 --> 00:31:22,845
things. Right? heartache, all of that. But it

506
00:31:22,845 --> 00:31:26,545
also opens up just the opportunity for

507
00:31:27,300 --> 00:31:31,140
Like you said, like, there's a deeper level your experience reaches

508
00:31:31,140 --> 00:31:34,180
a deeper level when you share it with another person. It's like watching a movie

509
00:31:34,180 --> 00:31:37,655
and you both look over and you're like, oh my god. Right? And, like, the

510
00:31:37,655 --> 00:31:41,495
funny just became funnier. Or the scary, not so scary when

511
00:31:41,495 --> 00:31:45,120
there's a hand to grab, you know, those are just silly examples, but, like,

512
00:31:45,280 --> 00:31:48,960
again, connection is is a survival instinct. But if we can

513
00:31:48,960 --> 00:31:51,700
bring it out of the primal and allow it to just

514
00:31:52,825 --> 00:31:56,585
be, like, this agent to create purpose and

515
00:31:56,585 --> 00:32:00,425
meaning in life. It's yeah. It allows us to

516
00:32:00,425 --> 00:32:03,790
step into our vulnerability like, with support,

517
00:32:03,850 --> 00:32:07,550
and I don't know. It's I could go on and on. But --

518
00:32:07,610 --> 00:32:11,415
Yeah. No. I I love talking about it because it's relatively something

519
00:32:11,415 --> 00:32:14,695
that's new to me within the past, I don't know, 5 or so years. But

520
00:32:14,695 --> 00:32:18,400
I was just thinking as you were talking now, I wonder maybe you

521
00:32:18,400 --> 00:32:22,240
have an answer for this. What's the relationship between vulnerability and connection? Are they,

522
00:32:22,240 --> 00:32:25,360
like, inversely proportional? Are they the same thing? Or

523
00:32:26,160 --> 00:32:29,785
No. So I'm doubling up the same thing. Right? So

524
00:32:29,925 --> 00:32:33,365
in order I'm just thinking out loud right now. In order to be

525
00:32:33,365 --> 00:32:36,920
deeply connected, we have to be willing to be vulnerable.

526
00:32:37,700 --> 00:32:40,040
Right? Because to create an authentic

527
00:32:41,140 --> 00:32:44,495
connection We have to show parts of ourselves

528
00:32:44,715 --> 00:32:47,375
that we might feel like are undesirable or unappealing or unattractive or even

529
00:32:50,715 --> 00:32:53,800
shameful right, which is the essence of vulnerability.

530
00:32:54,660 --> 00:32:58,340
You know? Because, like, a surface level connection is

531
00:32:58,340 --> 00:33:01,835
just that. It's like, I haven't shown you my soul. I haven't offered you my

532
00:33:01,835 --> 00:33:05,355
heart because that requires vulnerability. Whereas that

533
00:33:05,355 --> 00:33:07,455
deep, like, rich connection

534
00:33:08,890 --> 00:33:12,730
requires the utmost vulnerability. Yeah. No. It's

535
00:33:12,890 --> 00:33:15,930
I mean, I'm sure you talk about this all the time. But for me, thinking

536
00:33:15,930 --> 00:33:19,705
about it in this way, it's It's almost like, it makes

537
00:33:19,705 --> 00:33:22,665
so much sense, but it's not really anything I ever, like, think about in that

538
00:33:22,665 --> 00:33:26,400
way. And it's it reminds me of a conversation that I had with

539
00:33:26,400 --> 00:33:30,160
someone recently, and they just, like, kinda shared this vulnerable story. And I was not

540
00:33:30,160 --> 00:33:33,120
expecting it because I didn't think, like I don't know. We were on that level

541
00:33:33,120 --> 00:33:36,275
or whatever. But then after he shared, I was like, wow. I feel like I

542
00:33:36,275 --> 00:33:39,715
know you better. And, like, I'm more connected to you. And, like, I didn't think

543
00:33:39,715 --> 00:33:43,495
of it in that way, but that's totally what it was. It was because

544
00:33:43,940 --> 00:33:47,320
they were able to be a little bit vulnerable and share something that maybe

545
00:33:47,540 --> 00:33:51,220
was risky or hard to say. It instantly made a

546
00:33:51,220 --> 00:33:54,985
connection stronger, which To me is very interesting, and

547
00:33:54,985 --> 00:33:58,205
I I don't really think about it in that way usually. And

548
00:33:59,225 --> 00:34:02,900
based in my therapeutic experience, I often find

549
00:34:02,900 --> 00:34:06,500
that people think quite the opposite is if I

550
00:34:06,500 --> 00:34:10,200
show you parts of me, you're going to leave.

551
00:34:10,805 --> 00:34:14,485
Right? Like, if if I open up, I'm gonna be too much, too

552
00:34:14,485 --> 00:34:18,325
messy, too this, to that, and therefore, you're going to leave. And so we

553
00:34:18,325 --> 00:34:22,170
withhold parts. which then doesn't allow the depth

554
00:34:22,170 --> 00:34:25,870
of connection to happen and the relationship fizzles anyway.

555
00:34:26,810 --> 00:34:30,335
Wow. Right? Because we feel like this isn't Like, there's

556
00:34:30,335 --> 00:34:33,855
there's more. You won't how many times, like, they won't let me in, or I

557
00:34:33,855 --> 00:34:37,560
just kinda feel like they're distracted or distant or Right? It's really a

558
00:34:37,560 --> 00:34:41,100
protective measure because we think if you see me, you will leave.

559
00:34:41,880 --> 00:34:45,725
You know? But in essence, And this is the other piece is

560
00:34:45,725 --> 00:34:49,485
that vulnerability is sacred. So we offer our vulnerability to

561
00:34:49,485 --> 00:34:53,110
people who are willing to treat it as sacred. It gets

562
00:34:53,110 --> 00:34:56,170
messy when we offer our vulnerability to somebody who's

563
00:34:57,270 --> 00:35:01,040
not going to treat it well. Right? Like, is gonna dismiss it or

564
00:35:01,040 --> 00:35:04,675
mock it or use it against us. And then that's where I

565
00:35:04,675 --> 00:35:08,355
think we'd oftentimes develop this belief that being vulnerable is

566
00:35:08,355 --> 00:35:11,820
bad. as you just experienced, oftentimes vulnerability

567
00:35:12,600 --> 00:35:16,060
allows us to feel closer, more connected,

568
00:35:16,360 --> 00:35:20,175
more attuned with one another. Mhmm. Yeah. I think

569
00:35:20,315 --> 00:35:23,435
weakness is probably the word that comes to mind when you think of I I

570
00:35:23,435 --> 00:35:27,195
guess if I'm going back to, like, my wiring, I think maybe that that's

571
00:35:27,195 --> 00:35:30,730
the word comes up if you share too much or you're too much to somebody,

572
00:35:30,730 --> 00:35:34,570
then you're looked at as, like, week or something, which is not always true like

573
00:35:34,570 --> 00:35:38,375
we're saying, depending on who you who you open up to. So

574
00:35:38,375 --> 00:35:42,155
I also do wanna talk about the word community, and

575
00:35:42,455 --> 00:35:45,255
I I know it kinda ties in with everything that we've been talking about. But

576
00:35:45,255 --> 00:35:49,060
for me, personally, I started networking, like, maybe a

577
00:35:49,060 --> 00:35:52,660
year ago or a little longer a year and a half. And for

578
00:35:52,660 --> 00:35:56,375
me, like, it's had a profound impact on, like, my

579
00:35:56,375 --> 00:35:59,655
own business and just even figuring out who I am and what I wanna be

580
00:35:59,655 --> 00:36:03,435
doing. So for me, community has been, like, a huge part of

581
00:36:03,640 --> 00:36:07,400
my growth even if we're talking not just personal, but,

582
00:36:07,400 --> 00:36:11,080
like, with business too. I know that you you guys do things,

583
00:36:11,080 --> 00:36:14,905
community events, and stuff like that. What is community mean to you?

584
00:36:14,905 --> 00:36:18,425
How do you how do you how do you participate in community, I guess?

585
00:36:18,425 --> 00:36:21,805
Yes. I'm drawn to community.

586
00:36:22,180 --> 00:36:25,780
I think that if if I'm if I'm thinking about it,

587
00:36:25,780 --> 00:36:29,115
my professional network look

588
00:36:29,435 --> 00:36:32,875
similar to my friend network and that I have

589
00:36:32,875 --> 00:36:36,255
a handful of really close trusted

590
00:36:36,555 --> 00:36:40,370
colleagues that are my go to. In fact, I have dinner with one

591
00:36:40,370 --> 00:36:43,830
tonight. She's so lovely. I love her, and we get to have the

592
00:36:44,210 --> 00:36:48,045
opportunity to not only connect professionally, what are you doing? She has a group

593
00:36:48,045 --> 00:36:51,585
practice as well, but also personally. Right? So

594
00:36:51,805 --> 00:36:55,140
very similar to my sales experience. It's like we talk a little business. We talk

595
00:36:55,140 --> 00:36:58,980
a little personal. Right? I think that the the net goes from

596
00:36:58,980 --> 00:37:02,795
there and that I genuinely appreciate learning about what other people

597
00:37:02,795 --> 00:37:06,155
are doing, learning about what's going on in the industry, and that I think keeps

598
00:37:06,155 --> 00:37:09,755
me inspired and growing. Right?

599
00:37:09,755 --> 00:37:13,340
Like, that part is invigorating to me. It's like, ah, I wanna hear about this

600
00:37:13,340 --> 00:37:15,740
pool thing or I wanna go to this talk and learn about this thing. I

601
00:37:15,740 --> 00:37:19,200
wanna hear about the new ways that they're doing x, y, and z.

602
00:37:19,555 --> 00:37:22,995
But I also I think really

603
00:37:22,995 --> 00:37:26,755
specific to the private practice experience, there's this

604
00:37:26,755 --> 00:37:30,250
weird thing that happens in grad school and that at

605
00:37:30,250 --> 00:37:33,610
least for me and I've heard it from other colleagues is,

606
00:37:33,610 --> 00:37:37,210
like, there's this idea put out that you're sort of

607
00:37:37,210 --> 00:37:40,715
against one another. Right? Like, because it's technically

608
00:37:40,775 --> 00:37:44,215
competing businesses. Right? What I do, you know, Bob does or

609
00:37:44,215 --> 00:37:47,400
whatever. And so we wouldn't be collaborative.

610
00:37:48,180 --> 00:37:51,860
And having had the opportunity to work in treatment centers

611
00:37:51,860 --> 00:37:55,535
that Raya and I got a handcraft and create this really

612
00:37:55,535 --> 00:37:58,605
collaborative approach to therapy where one

613
00:37:59,990 --> 00:38:03,830
is simultaneously working with several different practitioners because all of us

614
00:38:03,830 --> 00:38:07,190
have complimentary skill sets and to watch, like, the

615
00:38:07,190 --> 00:38:10,875
growth just emerge out of this individual, that's

616
00:38:10,875 --> 00:38:14,715
when I really was like, wow. We can this is synergistic. We

617
00:38:14,715 --> 00:38:18,340
can be together as a community promoting growth and

618
00:38:18,340 --> 00:38:22,180
healing, we don't have to operate in silos. And I think

619
00:38:22,180 --> 00:38:25,835
that was really transformative. You know? for

620
00:38:25,835 --> 00:38:29,455
for me in the way that connected operates in the community.

621
00:38:29,835 --> 00:38:33,615
I mean, it's one of the reasons we put out a a biweekly

622
00:38:34,490 --> 00:38:38,250
email blast that talks about all the cool events that are happening, podcasts

623
00:38:38,250 --> 00:38:41,930
that people are putting out. Like, we want to promote other people. We have a

624
00:38:41,930 --> 00:38:45,755
trust list of other colleagues on our website because we we

625
00:38:45,755 --> 00:38:49,375
are here to create the best healing experience.

626
00:38:50,260 --> 00:38:53,960
And it doesn't matter if it's through us. It matters that it happens.

627
00:38:54,020 --> 00:38:57,000
If we get to be a part of it because we're the best fit rad.

628
00:38:57,755 --> 00:39:01,435
But it's happening, the healing, the transformation, the growth, that's

629
00:39:01,435 --> 00:39:05,135
what's most important. And Ray and I have always operated from the perspective

630
00:39:05,195 --> 00:39:08,960
that, like, We can stay true to that because that feels authentic and

631
00:39:08,960 --> 00:39:12,800
real for us. The rest will sort of unfold. You know, we'll find

632
00:39:12,800 --> 00:39:16,465
other like minded people, and, you know, we have. you know, to

633
00:39:16,465 --> 00:39:20,225
date, which we feel so lucky if for. Yeah.

634
00:39:20,225 --> 00:39:23,985
That's that's beautiful. I I really like the idea of collaboration over

635
00:39:23,985 --> 00:39:27,600
competition, and I think that You just perfectly painted an example of

636
00:39:27,600 --> 00:39:31,120
why that's, like, such an important thing. And, again, it's one of those things that

637
00:39:31,120 --> 00:39:34,845
maybe is counterintuitive because if you look at, like, I don't

638
00:39:34,845 --> 00:39:38,445
know. Just the numbers are from a head perspective. It's like, well, technically, they are

639
00:39:38,445 --> 00:39:42,125
my competition. If they take this client, then I don't have that client.

640
00:39:42,125 --> 00:39:45,900
But I think that scarcity mindset is the thing that holds

641
00:39:45,900 --> 00:39:49,740
people back. And if when you do collaborate with people together in a

642
00:39:49,740 --> 00:39:53,565
setting, you can do more than you ever even imagined. And and maybe that's the

643
00:39:53,565 --> 00:39:57,325
differences. You can only imagine so much. But when there's two people there

644
00:39:57,325 --> 00:40:01,030
or three people or four people or seven people, it's like Who knows

645
00:40:01,030 --> 00:40:04,390
what you can create? And that that to me is, like, so exciting. And what

646
00:40:04,390 --> 00:40:08,170
we were talking about earlier having that more abstract, like, expansive

647
00:40:08,310 --> 00:40:11,975
creative mindset I love

648
00:40:12,835 --> 00:40:16,435
creating collaborative opportunities. Right? So whether it's with

649
00:40:16,435 --> 00:40:20,250
obvious, you know, connections or with people that, you know,

650
00:40:20,250 --> 00:40:24,090
are not such an obvious pairing. But, yeah, like, doing that the

651
00:40:24,090 --> 00:40:27,865
cool work shops and the community events with with in in spaces

652
00:40:27,865 --> 00:40:31,465
and with people that are just like a unique pairing. And I that

653
00:40:31,465 --> 00:40:35,220
comes from community. Right? finding other like minded people

654
00:40:35,220 --> 00:40:37,887
who are willing to kinda dive in with you. And, yeah, I think it keeps

655
00:40:37,887 --> 00:40:39,480
it fresh and exciting and yeah.

656
00:40:43,405 --> 00:40:47,165
Yeah. Well, I know we're kinda wrapping up towards the end of our times. We'll

657
00:40:47,165 --> 00:40:50,765
have to pick a few questions to ask you out of the whole list and

658
00:40:50,765 --> 00:40:54,600
everything else we've talked about. But I I guess for you, like, what

659
00:40:54,600 --> 00:40:58,200
are you excited about next for your business or personally or, like, what what excites

660
00:40:58,200 --> 00:41:02,035
you for the future? Yes. Gino, you're making

661
00:41:02,035 --> 00:41:05,475
me speak it into the universe. This is such a be so

662
00:41:05,475 --> 00:41:08,695
excited. She's like, girl, you got homework. Get out there.

663
00:41:12,090 --> 00:41:15,710
I I'm gonna I'm gonna say it. We're we are I am, like,

664
00:41:15,930 --> 00:41:19,565
in the process right now, we have a large space, which we envision to

665
00:41:19,565 --> 00:41:23,325
be a group space and haven't yet taken that leap

666
00:41:23,325 --> 00:41:24,785
and I am doing it. We're gonna I'm gonna start announcing on social media

667
00:41:27,800 --> 00:41:31,340
we are gonna begin to do a lot more community engagement,

668
00:41:31,800 --> 00:41:35,490
a lot more group work, and creating the opportunity

669
00:41:35,490 --> 00:41:39,275
for what has always been the vision,

670
00:41:39,275 --> 00:41:43,035
but for this for for connected to be a space for therapy, but

671
00:41:43,035 --> 00:41:46,735
also therapeutic experiences outside of the one on one.

672
00:41:47,130 --> 00:41:50,650
And I would say really specifically because this is the evolution of my

673
00:41:50,650 --> 00:41:54,330
practice. It's kind of moving into, like, the mama and family

674
00:41:54,330 --> 00:41:57,865
realm. to create a space and a an opportunity for

675
00:41:57,865 --> 00:42:01,385
connection for people sort of early on in

676
00:42:01,385 --> 00:42:04,285
their their mothering or parenting experience.

677
00:42:05,360 --> 00:42:09,120
Yeah. And so we're we're starting, like, a a a monthly

678
00:42:09,120 --> 00:42:12,880
group and evening events and and some

679
00:42:12,880 --> 00:42:16,645
really powerful collaboration bringing in, like, some artistic

680
00:42:16,705 --> 00:42:20,385
experiential opportunities, sound healing, things like that.

681
00:42:20,385 --> 00:42:23,880
So if expanding the way that we're gonna work with some of our

682
00:42:23,880 --> 00:42:27,500
community members. That's that's amazing. I

683
00:42:27,880 --> 00:42:31,515
recently was at a fireside chat of somebody who It's

684
00:42:31,515 --> 00:42:34,875
it's like, I'm struggling to even, like, come up with a term, I guess, wellness

685
00:42:34,875 --> 00:42:38,475
center maybe. Uh-huh. because she it's a bit of a therapy practice, but then also,

686
00:42:38,475 --> 00:42:41,900
like, the sound healing and, like, different sorts of maybe alternative

687
00:42:41,960 --> 00:42:45,800
healing or or nontraditional. And it's really, for me, interesting

688
00:42:45,800 --> 00:42:49,455
to see these sorts of healing centers have so many things

689
00:42:49,455 --> 00:42:52,735
like you were saying. So it's not just therapy, but it's also these other things

690
00:42:52,735 --> 00:42:56,480
that can kinda maybe help with integration and and stuff like

691
00:42:56,480 --> 00:42:59,700
that. And to me, that's, like, really exciting, and

692
00:43:00,160 --> 00:43:04,000
it's it's been really exciting talking to you. And if somebody wants to,

693
00:43:04,000 --> 00:43:07,745
like, connect with you or or find you online. Do you

694
00:43:07,745 --> 00:43:11,585
only work in person with people in the San Diego

695
00:43:11,585 --> 00:43:14,680
area or Do you do online therapy and that sort of thing too? Yeah. We

696
00:43:14,680 --> 00:43:18,520
do. As a practice, we offer in person and telehealth, and we

697
00:43:18,520 --> 00:43:21,885
also have coaches who can work anywhere in the United States.

698
00:43:21,885 --> 00:43:25,725
therapists, the client needs to be in California. But now we have

699
00:43:25,725 --> 00:43:29,265
the ability as a practice to support people across the United States.

700
00:43:29,720 --> 00:43:33,480
which is amazing and been such a gift. Our

701
00:43:33,480 --> 00:43:37,320
website is connected to seen heard.com. We're also on

702
00:43:37,320 --> 00:43:40,725
instagram, which is connected dot seen. Heard.

703
00:43:41,265 --> 00:43:44,785
You'll you'll see my face on there. I I do my best to to keep

704
00:43:44,785 --> 00:43:48,620
up with our audience who's been amazing. Yeah. And,

705
00:43:48,760 --> 00:43:52,440
you know, we are here to support and help if if we

706
00:43:52,440 --> 00:43:56,060
can. So, yeah, anything that we can do to support.

707
00:43:56,695 --> 00:43:59,655
Well, I will definitely put all that in the show notes so people don't have

708
00:43:59,655 --> 00:44:03,495
to remember it. And thank you so much for all of the healing

709
00:44:03,495 --> 00:44:07,240
that you're providing to your community, and the voice that you have

710
00:44:07,240 --> 00:44:11,080
and the platforms that you have. And for coming on my podcast and and being

711
00:44:11,080 --> 00:44:14,925
able to share yourself with more people, I I really appreciate it. Thank

712
00:44:14,925 --> 00:44:18,765
you, Gino. It's amazing to get to know you more. As you said,

713
00:44:18,765 --> 00:44:22,125
we got to work together on the editing side of things, but this was just

714
00:44:22,125 --> 00:44:25,870
such a joy. So thank you for the opportunity. Thank you, and

715
00:44:25,870 --> 00:44:29,090
and best of luck with speaking your vision into existence.

716
00:44:30,031 --> 00:44:32,211
Thank you. I appreciate that.

717
00:44:34,426 --> 00:44:38,046
Thanks for tuning in and listening to working towards our purpose.

718
00:44:38,265 --> 00:44:41,921
If you like this episode, please share it with a friend, and don't

719
00:44:41,921 --> 00:44:43,861
forget to subscribe for more episodes.