Welcome to working towards our purpose. A podcast that
offers a different perspective on what a job can be. For everyone
out there that's heard that voice in the back their head asking for something
more, it's time to listen to it. I'm your host, Gino, and
join me as I interview people who have decided to work in their own
purpose. Together, we will learn, become inspired, and
hopefully find our own path towards working in our purpose.
Joining me today is Carolyn Johnson, who is a licensed marriage and
family therapist out of San Diego, California, together with her business
partner, Raya, They have created connected seen and heard, which is a
therapy practice centered around connection, and the human needs belong.
She's also the host of her podcast connecting the collective she's a
mom, and she's also one of my podcasting clients, and we've worked together over the
past few years. Carolyn, thank you so much for being here. I'm excited that you're
here. Thank you, Gino. I am so honored to be here.
Such a such a privilege. So can you tell us a little
bit in your own words, how you would describe yourself and what you do and
and that sort of thing? Yeah. It's funny
if you know, the the first thing that comes to my mind is I am
a mom. I would say as my, you know, as my my journey, my
life journey has evolved. That probably rolls to the top right now
as all consuming and probably one of
the most, if not, the most rewarding experience I have ever had in my
life. And on a purely professional realm, I am
a therapist. I didn't have a background in
psychology. I don't come from, like, a family of
therapists or whatnot, so that was somewhat of, like, a
like, a high end to the right choice that I made at one point in
my life, and that has been an absolutely
exceptional experience. I have probably mentioned
before in in different podcast episodes that when I
sort of began sitting with clients for the first time, I really felt
like, oh, Like, I'm home. I have found my calling.
I have found the thing professionally that most
closely aligns with my being, like, my way of my my
human way of being the way I conceptualize the world. It
just it brings me joy. It is truly a privilege to sit with people in
that space. is challenging. It allows me and
requires me to consistently be growing and evolving,
which I love that's something, you know, staying curious and, like, invested in
life, not stagnant. That's important to me. I have
brothers I'm a sister. I am, you know, a daughter to my parents.
I'm actually get to go home tomorrow, which I'm so excited about
for a little summer vacation with the girls. And, you
know, from, again, from a professional standpoint, Raya and I own
our group practice. Raya and I have worked together for I don't
know, like, 14 years now in a variety of different settings and
created, connected. It was really born out of this, like,
desperate desire to provide opportunity
space, like experiences where people felt
deeply authentically connected to one another. We
watched the transformative power of that happen in treatment
settings year after year after year. and felt like,
why can't we create that in a private practice setting? So the
practice definitely has clinical space. Right? We do individual
couples, family therapy. but we also do
our best. COVID put a little bit of a wrench in it, but do our
best to create in person opportunities for people who might
not otherwise meet one another to connect. So
through workshops, like experiential sort of trainings, things like
that, So to, you know, to bring people together to
really, like, watch and nurture and foster the,
like, the power of authentic connection.
That's that's definitely a lot of things, and I definitely have so many questions for
you about all of it. But I think I wanna start with, like, how you
got into therapy and I know that you had mentioned in one of your
own podcast episodes that you had sort of a sales, corporate ish background.
Like, can you talk to me a little bit about, like, that transition and how
that was like for you? Yeah. So out
of college, I live downtown Chicago. I'm from Chicago originally. I
worked in a sales you know, that was my profession. I was in sales. I
actually worked for a telecom company. So I sold audio,
video, and web conferencing into any
company that did anything, didn't matter. Like, you know, nothing was off
limits. It was just if they had a need. And so I got to learn
so much about so many different types of people and so many
different types of businesses, which at 23 or 24, I
now know, was, like, such a blessing because I got to walk
into and kinda learn the inner workings of how different corporations
worked. And that was a huge company. It became a global
company over the duration that I worked there. So I really saw, you know,
what, like, small corporate to giant corporate looked and
felt like. And it was really challenging. I appreciated
how much I learned because I'm not a techie person, so I was consistently
out of my comfort zone. I left that company, and I actually
moved on to work for a smaller I guess, smaller in comparison to
this giant global company. But it was technically a
publishing company that sort of then expanded They had trade
publications. They hosted trade shows, smaller
workshops and conferences. And so I was I did a variety of different
sales things, both ad space as well as worked on the trade show
and and, like, event side of it. And that I
traveled a lot which will provided me the opportunity. At that point, I was living
out here in San Diego provided me the opportunity to see my family a lot,
but it was it was exhausting. So it was, you know, it was I felt
very blessed, but it was also difficult. And I sort of became disillusioned.
And so I worked for years with my therapist She would
ask me these questions. If money wasn't an issue and time
was of no consequence, what would you do? And
finally, one day, I remember, like, so brave. I just
looked her. I was like, I would do what you do. Mhmm. She's
like, Alright. Let's go. And it took
me some time after that. I had to do prerequisites because I
wasn't a psych undergrad, but
I I realized that the thing I loved
so much about my sales jobs were the relationships
I created with my customers. Right? Like, I would walk in to
see my customers, and we'd end up talking about whatever the
business portion of the conversation was for 5 minutes
and we'd chat about, you know, like, their kids or whoever got married or how
is this going with your husband or so on and so forth. And
That part I loved. I loved so much, and I I think I realized
for the first time that people will characterize you in
certain ways and I had heard before, like, I'm a people person or
I like to be around, you know, a relationship person. But I think
I realized that Yes. That that is a, like, a
characteristic of mine, but it it also is a strength. Right? It's
something that I could turn into a skill and a profession.
to really authentically, genuinely be connected to people. I just
didn't have the skills to help them grow and heal. That's the part I
was missing. And so that's regards school came in.
So was it a, like, quick does it like, when you
finally realized that, were you able to then make a decision and then
go for it, or was there still a lot of, like, fear behind it of,
like, oh, I don't know if I can do that. It's what I want, but
I don't know if I can do that. because that's something that I've personally struggled
with for a while with a lot of things. Totally.
Yeah. I mean, fear is so real. And I think I think my
yes. The short answer is yes. I remember saying that in my
therapist's office, and
The next step that I took which felt minimal risk as
compared to grad school was like, alright. I'll sign up for a prereq.
and just see how that goes. Right? So it was, like, baby
steps. That's sort of how I moved into it. And I would say probably the
largest hurdle for me was Honestly, the
financial piece is, like, I'm gonna go into a tremendous amount of debt
to go to grad school, and I will make significantly
less in this new profession that I'm choosing as compared to where I'm at, and
that felt risky.
And I got a lot of outside feedback. Like,
that's not really very smart. Right? Like, I'm a young person
entering into my career. you have no debt and you're in a
profession that could make you really you know, could, like, could could provide some
financial stability. and you're gonna take this turn. And so I had
to grapple with that a lot and kept coming up against, like,
what's smart, what's acceptable, what's you know, good, quote,
unquote choice versus, like, no. Like, I know in my
heart. I know in my soul that is my path. And it's
going to be, you know, more difficult in certain
ways, but it's also like, it's my quality of
life. I ended up at points just hating going
into work when I worked in the corporate sales side of things. And I with
I I use the word over and
over again, and I hope it doesn't it's not it's because I it is so
appropriate. It is a privilege to do what I
do. like, the space that people allow me, invite
me into in their world that that's
sacred. Right? And I get to see that side of
people and, like, human beings, just our community.
the brave, the courageous, the resilient, the growth minded,
like, part of people all the time. And that's Like,
in that's inspiring, and I wasn't inspired in my
last job. I was just good at it. You know? And that felt good for
a while, but Not forever.
Yeah. So I remember also from one of your podcasts that
you said something about, like, making decisions with your head or your
heart And I remember, like, that kinda striking me because
I feel like I more so often make
decisions with my head because I'm a very logical person. I went to engineering school.
Like, I was -- I was gonna ask you, what is your background? because I
only know you as a, you know, podcast, you know. I know you in this
space. Yeah. I was a mechanical engineer, and I worked for military
defense contractors for about 6 or 7 years.
So very analytical, very, like, matter of fact,
So for me, that transition of getting out of that
mindset and, like, patterned ways of thinking was
very difficult. And I I guess now that I'm looking
at my transition in comparing it to yours, it was also a very slow thing
because it was started on the side. No risk. Still have my paycheck.
Yep. And then kinda built some confidence and then built, like you were saying,
relationships and having people, like, be super appreciative of the thing
that I'm doing. And then feeling that and being, like, oh, this feels
right. I think I need to do more of this. And then eventually,
getting all the way into it, was it similar for you, like, when you maybe
first took that class, was it something that, like, you took the 1st class and
then you felt it? Right? Even though people were saying, like, hey. This is probably
not a good decision logically.
Yeah. I I remember so school has always been hard
for me. Academics, traditional academics are difficult.
I I'm not afraid of hard work. I never have been, so I would
work really hard and get, you know, good grades, but it was
grueling to do that. Whereas, again, comparison,
like, athletics came pretty naturally. I still worked really hard,
but I felt like that was more of a fluid us. Whereas
academics were always such a strain and so clunky. So
going back to grad school felt really daunting because of that past
experience. But when I started taking my prerequisites and psych,
I was so fascinated by the material. And that's when I
was like, oh, so This is an arena that's difficult and you knew you were
gonna have to just muscle through it, but I'm looking forward to
it. And you had said, you know, you
kinda tiptoed and it was risk free. I did this thing on the side but
had my paycheck. I held on to my sales job
throughout my entire first year of grad
school. I worked full time. It my job morphed because I
can no longer travel, but I you know, they were very gracious and sort
of, you know, adjusted my job, you know, in order to
accommodate. But I worked all day during you know, I worked full
time during the day, and then I went to school all night 4 days a
week. So, yeah, I, like, I held on tight
to what felt stable until,
you know, then you, like, almost lose your mind because that's not sustainable and
then finally relinquish that. very, very similar to me.
I was home for the pandemic doing both jobs, like,
never leaving my desk or my apartment at all. And got to the end of
2020, and I was, like, insane. And, like, I can't I can't do both of
these. Like, I have to pick 1. So it was
Interesting in the similarities between that. Yeah. So
I I also wanna maybe transition a little bit into talking about,
like, being your authentic self. And I know it's kind of like a
buzz word nowadays, and maybe it's not the best
use of words, but I think it gets the phone across. For me, like,
I think part of my transition was getting closer to who I
wanted to be. Did you find that similar in in your experience?
And I guess, like I don't know. Talk us talk to us about, like, how
you were able to be more yourself in the work
and through the transition. Yeah.
Yeah. I'm just thinking. I yes.
Like, I I can say definitively. that
I am my authentic being in the therapy
room. Right? Like, I bring my personality
into that space, and I I truly believe it's
what allows me to so deeply connect with my clients.
if I back up, I I think earlier I was saying,
you know, people would describe me as a people person or, you
know, I have I'm not a person who has the a zillion friends,
but I do have really deep close friendships that I've had
since, you know, childhood. So I've always known that I was a
relationship person. But those were
sort of, like, descriptors. Like, I have brown hair. Like, they were just
it was, like, how people characterized me. And I think
I distance myself from those things because it
didn't feel like a
strength or a skill that could then transfer into
professional or career. path if that
makes sense. And so it was like, oh, though those are those are just things,
you know, I'm that I am or that I do, but they're
irrelevant because not career they they're not associated with
a career. And and, again, it took I mean, it took me
6, 7 years in sales to realize
No. Like, that's my superpower. That is where
I feel most genuinely me
Because for me to ask curious questions and be invested in somebody that
happens in a snap. That's that is my most authentic way of being.
I love people. People are fascinating to me. And I can very
quickly move to a space of compassion and empathy. I think
also I have had experiences where that
from my perspective has felt like it's been taken advantage of. Right? Like,
don't mistake kindness for weakness type of thing. You know? And I I do my
own work in setting boundaries and being clear because I want
to treat people well. I on the side of, like, trust. and, you
know, giving people the benefit of the doubt. And so I think for a
while, I I tried to move away from that side of me because it
didn't feel like it was safe to lean into it because I felt like I
was being taken advantage of. And that was, like, more in the corporate
space. And then when I realized I can be all of me, I just
need to add boundaries and be really clear about where I end
and you, whoever you are, start. that's when I could
really begin to, like, settle into that authentic
me and begin to give more time and
attention to these things that I just thought were sort of like silly
descriptors, but are, like, actually my deepest
gift. Mhmm. Yeah. I think it is funny how, like, you
don't recognize your own strength to something
that's like important or or valuable. It's
like, I think like, you it's just something that you don't even really think about
until enough people kinda say it to you, and then you're like, Maybe I
am good at this particular thing. Maybe that's what helps me in this
particular job or a particular task. For me, it's been something
that I've been noticing more and more. but only ever since I've
quit and, like, started working on my own that I've noticed, like, things that
maybe I am good at and -- Yeah. -- giving yourself credit for things and
And also just because you were saying before, like, you're pretty linear or logical,
I think inviting that more creative abstract thought
process because On paper, x isn't necessarily
relatable or transferable. But if you live in a more abstract
creative world, x can turn into,
right, the, like, the most transferable skill in whatever profession.
So just allowing that, yeah, like, broader thinking,
which is sometimes really hard, you know, depending on how you grew up
or how you're hardwired or the environment you system. But, yeah,
I think that piece too is, like, hey. Wait. Let's think bigger than
this. Right? Like, let's let's open up perception a little bit.
Mhmm. Yeah. Totally. So I do do wanna talk a little bit more about, like,
your business and and how it got started. And I think maybe the biggest question
I have for you is I know that you've started it with a partner, and
you said you've worked with Rhea for a while now. What is it
like to work with somebody and to trust somebody
in something as, I guess, important as your livelihood in the way
that, you know, you make money. Has it been easy
or Or difficult. And, like, how did that relationship start into
a business? Yeah. All of those
things. I I So back to your question about head
or heart. I'm a heart person. I when something
feels right, I lean into it. I
I could absolutely employ some of my head more often. You know,
like, I don't think things through very well. Like, that's not my natural way of
being. I'm not a planner. I'm not very strategic. Yeah. That feels great. Let's
do that thing. And that's how Rhea is too. So she and I
are similar in the risk that we're willing to take. We are similar
and that we're feelers. Right? And so we can move forward with something
that just like, yeah. That, like, feels like it fits us.
It is such a blessing. We have very complementary strengths.
And so from the organizational side, the system
side of things. Guy can go out, do podcast, network,
meet people, do all day long. I love doing that stuff. It's
energizing to me. I genuinely appreciate those
opportunities. Reya gets to keep the books and make sure payroll is
tight, and she's our HR person, and she's so good at that. And she
genuinely enjoys making sure that, like, the business side of the
business is running well. I could never do what she does and
she could never do what I do. And so that's, like, such a gift
Right? There's definitely challenges as we have
grown. I mean, in being business partners, there's been monumental
life changes, marriages, babies,
different houses, locations, things like that. And so
we have learned to dance with one another when one person has
to dip out because of a life experience. The other picks up the
slack and vice versa. And I think that, for the most part, we do that
really fluidly. but that's, you know, that's been a
learning curve for sure. And in terms of trusting
her, I just did from the beginning. Rhea is
so she's loyal, like, fiercely loyal.
She's transparent. She's direct. There's no bullshit. Like, I know what
I'm gonna get from her. She doesn't play games. She is what she is.
Right? And that allowed me to lean in very quickly.
You know? And I I don't know how she would describe me, but she and
I have had the conversation, a person that you know, Alyssa,
former colleague of ours, had asked us in one of our pod test series.
How did you know you would be good business partners? And Ray and I both
answered. We didn't know because we didn't even know what it meant to
be business partners. We just knew that we could trust one another
in whatever we were going to come up against and, like, work through it
compassionately, honestly, with the mission.
And both of us are incredibly hard workers and have
not only a, like, a fierce passion for this industry,
but a commitment to working because it provides for our
family. So it's not sort of like a, you know, a a side
thing. It's it's something that we're passionate about on, like, a,
you know, a mission and a purpose level, but also a it provides for
the people that we love the most. And so that's a strong driver for us
as well. So the relationship definitely came
1st, and then it was kinda it just -- Oh, yeah. -- came out
naturally kinda to start the business. We would sit. We were working at a
previous treatment center, and we would sit on our break on this couch. We would
eat our lunch, and we would draw and write all
the things. Like, okay. What's this just like right? It's like this was create a
process of our vision and our mission. We still have it in our
practice. It's in the breakroom. The first logo we drew.
You know? Like, we I'm chills. Like, we would just brainstorm and it would
be this invigorating process when things felt really
tough. about, like, what we would create. That was a slow burn
too. We would we would just, like, have these creative rainstorms about our
name and our logo and the vibe and the energy, and it
took us a long time to get there. But, you know, now now we've been
here for, I think, almost 8 years.
Yeah. That's crazy. It is crazy. And it's interesting too because I I think I
just noticed a connection about, like, the excitement that you had about it, and then
that being able to get you through the difficult part similarly to when you went
to grad school. And you were -- Yes. -- excited about it. And then that
was, like, drove you even though it's difficult and hard to figure out. Just being
excited about it is something that I think isn't really valued a
lot or can't really tangibly be valued sometimes. But I'm
noticing is, like, the biggest thing for me to be able to even get
anything done. It's just -- Yeah. -- am I excited to do it? Like, do
I want to be doing it? Yes. I'm working with a business coach
presently, which I've never done before, and it's been, like, such a
cool experience. We're really in this growth
process at connected. And so that's been it's been neat
to bring in another voice and another perspective and a
professional, you know, an expert in it. But one of the things early on, I
said to her, she's like, alright. So, like, give me the, you know, sort of
the parts of your business. And as we were talking about
what a reorganization will look like and where the growth where I
see the growth. I consistently kept coming back to
I have to have. They're I I greatly
appreciate really genuinely every aspect of our business.
And there are some things that I am fiercely passionate about that
aren't necessarily, like, you know, from
a purely business side of things, like the moneymaker, quote
unquote, right, which is what a business coach is sort of coaching you on. It's
like, how do you how, you know, how do you sustain your business?
And and I kept saying I have to have passion projects. It like,
I have to have things that I'm really that that invigorate
me. Right? So I'm in a very like, an
amazing spot and that I I genuinely love working with my
clients. I genuinely love supervising. I genuinely love
networking. But then, like, things like introducing the podcast. She's like, what's this
podcast about? I said, it's my baby. It's my passion project. I'm doing it.
I don't know. I don't have training, but I'm having so much fun doing it.
She's like, cool. Roll with it. Right? But having those little
nuggets and they change and evolve over time. Right? And so
I think having the courage to, like, really step into those
because they do. They light up and already bright space, but they, you know,
they just they make it even better. So -- That's that's
awesome. And I'm really curious about, like, how it's been to work with
a business coach and, like, I I don't know. I I've thought
about, like, that for a while, but always been
I clearly have, like, trust issues because I always think, like, the first thought
is, like, well, what if they don't help me? And then, like, they seem some
somewhere wrong or, like, probably just out of fear, those those
thoughts are coming. But -- Yeah. -- how is it to, like, work with somebody
and kinda I mean, you're trusting them with your your business and your
growth and your future, how was it like to choose a business
coach? Yeah. A lot. like, everything in my life,
apparently, Jean, I'm realizing it was a long process.
I talked to a lot of colleagues, and I got several names.
I interviewed several several
3. I I researched several. I talked to 3 different
business coaches. And, you know, as as it turns out, I ended up picking the
first person that I talked to. And, originally, I was like,
wow. She's bold. She's direct, but, like,
I'm uncomfortable a little bit by some of the questions that she's asking because it's
like you're looking under the hood already. we don't even know each other. What? But
I'm like, that's but I kept coming back to that. It's
like, maybe that's the nudge I need. You know? I I
got to see her yesterday. I walked in. I'm like, so
happy I'm here. I love working with
her. I love having, you know, again, just like
a new perspective. She you know, I asked her. I said, do people feel like
they come for a therapy session? And she's like, yeah. But I'm really relational.
So I picked somebody who's very much about
developing a relationship because for me, trust is huge. Right?
And I don't want just like a black and white here are the numbers. Here's
your homework. Come back with it done. Right? Like, I feel like she's invested
in me, and that means everything. and I'm equal parts invested
in her and our work together. So but, yeah,
like, when you start bringing in you know, because you start with, like, budget and
finances. And it's like, you wanna see what? Right?
And, like, is that allowed? Can I show you that? You know, it's it's it
was an interesting process, and Yeah. Again and it took
me a long time to pull the trigger. Ray and I talked about it for
a long time. Do you know, this is how long I'll totally honest
with you right now. So in 2021,
like November 2021, we did this big
goal setting retreat and I had put on my goals
for q42022 to have
found a business coach. And it took
me until, I don't know, this summer, I started working with her
a couple months ago. So, yeah, it took yeah,
a year and a half to to really, like, move through that.
But we're here. I'm doing it, and I'm so happy. I am.
It's it's been amazing. That's awesome. I'm glad you found
somebody that you can, you know, really get some help from and excited
to see what they bring to your business, for sure. Me too.
So I do also wanna talk about the word connection
because I know it's such a very big theme in, like,
everything that you do in your podcast and your business. Can you maybe,
I don't know, just, like, talk about what connection means to you why it's
important. And because for me, personally, I think it's something that I'm
only recently finding out is super important. I think
for the longest time, I was a loner and, like,
almost, like, proud of the fact that I could, like, never be bored by myself
and, like, always just learning something new or you know, figuring something out.
But now I'm realizing, like, oh, it's much more,
I don't know, impactful when you do something with somebody versus just by
yourself. So can you talk to me about, like, why connection is important to
you? Yes. It's everything. It's like the secret
sauce in life.
I I have described myself as a people person or a
relational person It is always how I've operated.
It is how, again, like, I feel when I'm in
connection with other people, it feels like there's a deeper purpose a
greater level of satisfaction for me. And,
right, if we struggle with trust, that's greatly impacted our ability
to, you know, deeply authenticate -- basically connect with other people.
I remember literally, do you know I remember? I remember what
I was wearing. I remember what the room looked like when I was sitting in
Grad school. It was a night class, obviously. And I learned
about attachment theory, which is how I practice. It's how Raya
practice is. It's the foundation of our
practice. It is how, you know, every person who comes on as
an employee practices from at least like an
you know, that at least has a, like, a strong connection to attachment
theory. But when I learned and I I I won't
go into, like, you know, the deep details, but attachment theory
states that in order to survive
as a human being, when we're young, when we're infants,
we have to be connected to another human being. Our literal
survival depends on human connection. And so
when you study how human beings operate in the world, we talk
about connection as if it is a choice.
And I think as an adult, we bring our head into the equation,
and it feels like it's a choice. And we do have
impact on that, and we do have influence over who we connect
with and how we connect with. And on the most primal
level connection is a survival instinct. It
is how we are, like, neurologically hardwired is to
connect to other people. It is what drives us. And so if
you if you, like, can accept that as a foundation of our
being and then embrace the richness and the
beauty of human connection with risk. Right? Because The more connected
we are, the more vulnerable we are to
rejection, let down, disappointment, abandonment, all those
things. Right? heartache, all of that. But it
also opens up just the opportunity for
Like you said, like, there's a deeper level your experience reaches
a deeper level when you share it with another person. It's like watching a movie
and you both look over and you're like, oh my god. Right? And, like, the
funny just became funnier. Or the scary, not so scary when
there's a hand to grab, you know, those are just silly examples, but, like,
again, connection is is a survival instinct. But if we can
bring it out of the primal and allow it to just
be, like, this agent to create purpose and
meaning in life. It's yeah. It allows us to
step into our vulnerability like, with support,
and I don't know. It's I could go on and on. But --
Yeah. No. I I love talking about it because it's relatively something
that's new to me within the past, I don't know, 5 or so years. But
I was just thinking as you were talking now, I wonder maybe you
have an answer for this. What's the relationship between vulnerability and connection? Are they,
like, inversely proportional? Are they the same thing? Or
No. So I'm doubling up the same thing. Right? So
in order I'm just thinking out loud right now. In order to be
deeply connected, we have to be willing to be vulnerable.
Right? Because to create an authentic
connection We have to show parts of ourselves
that we might feel like are undesirable or unappealing or unattractive or even
shameful right, which is the essence of vulnerability.
You know? Because, like, a surface level connection is
just that. It's like, I haven't shown you my soul. I haven't offered you my
heart because that requires vulnerability. Whereas that
deep, like, rich connection
requires the utmost vulnerability. Yeah. No. It's
I mean, I'm sure you talk about this all the time. But for me, thinking
about it in this way, it's It's almost like, it makes
so much sense, but it's not really anything I ever, like, think about in that
way. And it's it reminds me of a conversation that I had with
someone recently, and they just, like, kinda shared this vulnerable story. And I was not
expecting it because I didn't think, like I don't know. We were on that level
or whatever. But then after he shared, I was like, wow. I feel like I
know you better. And, like, I'm more connected to you. And, like, I didn't think
of it in that way, but that's totally what it was. It was because
they were able to be a little bit vulnerable and share something that maybe
was risky or hard to say. It instantly made a
connection stronger, which To me is very interesting, and
I I don't really think about it in that way usually. And
based in my therapeutic experience, I often find
that people think quite the opposite is if I
show you parts of me, you're going to leave.
Right? Like, if if I open up, I'm gonna be too much, too
messy, too this, to that, and therefore, you're going to leave. And so we
withhold parts. which then doesn't allow the depth
of connection to happen and the relationship fizzles anyway.
Wow. Right? Because we feel like this isn't Like, there's
there's more. You won't how many times, like, they won't let me in, or I
just kinda feel like they're distracted or distant or Right? It's really a
protective measure because we think if you see me, you will leave.
You know? But in essence, And this is the other piece is
that vulnerability is sacred. So we offer our vulnerability to
people who are willing to treat it as sacred. It gets
messy when we offer our vulnerability to somebody who's
not going to treat it well. Right? Like, is gonna dismiss it or
mock it or use it against us. And then that's where I
think we'd oftentimes develop this belief that being vulnerable is
bad. as you just experienced, oftentimes vulnerability
allows us to feel closer, more connected,
more attuned with one another. Mhmm. Yeah. I think
weakness is probably the word that comes to mind when you think of I I
guess if I'm going back to, like, my wiring, I think maybe that that's
the word comes up if you share too much or you're too much to somebody,
then you're looked at as, like, week or something, which is not always true like
we're saying, depending on who you who you open up to. So
I also do wanna talk about the word community, and
I I know it kinda ties in with everything that we've been talking about. But
for me, personally, I started networking, like, maybe a
year ago or a little longer a year and a half. And for
me, like, it's had a profound impact on, like, my
own business and just even figuring out who I am and what I wanna be
doing. So for me, community has been, like, a huge part of
my growth even if we're talking not just personal, but,
like, with business too. I know that you you guys do things,
community events, and stuff like that. What is community mean to you?
How do you how do you how do you participate in community, I guess?
Yes. I'm drawn to community.
I think that if if I'm if I'm thinking about it,
my professional network look
similar to my friend network and that I have
a handful of really close trusted
colleagues that are my go to. In fact, I have dinner with one
tonight. She's so lovely. I love her, and we get to have the
opportunity to not only connect professionally, what are you doing? She has a group
practice as well, but also personally. Right? So
very similar to my sales experience. It's like we talk a little business. We talk
a little personal. Right? I think that the the net goes from
there and that I genuinely appreciate learning about what other people
are doing, learning about what's going on in the industry, and that I think keeps
me inspired and growing. Right?
Like, that part is invigorating to me. It's like, ah, I wanna hear about this
pool thing or I wanna go to this talk and learn about this thing. I
wanna hear about the new ways that they're doing x, y, and z.
But I also I think really
specific to the private practice experience, there's this
weird thing that happens in grad school and that at
least for me and I've heard it from other colleagues is,
like, there's this idea put out that you're sort of
against one another. Right? Like, because it's technically
competing businesses. Right? What I do, you know, Bob does or
whatever. And so we wouldn't be collaborative.
And having had the opportunity to work in treatment centers
that Raya and I got a handcraft and create this really
collaborative approach to therapy where one
is simultaneously working with several different practitioners because all of us
have complimentary skill sets and to watch, like, the
growth just emerge out of this individual, that's
when I really was like, wow. We can this is synergistic. We
can be together as a community promoting growth and
healing, we don't have to operate in silos. And I think
that was really transformative. You know? for
for me in the way that connected operates in the community.
I mean, it's one of the reasons we put out a a biweekly
email blast that talks about all the cool events that are happening, podcasts
that people are putting out. Like, we want to promote other people. We have a
trust list of other colleagues on our website because we we
are here to create the best healing experience.
And it doesn't matter if it's through us. It matters that it happens.
If we get to be a part of it because we're the best fit rad.
But it's happening, the healing, the transformation, the growth, that's
what's most important. And Ray and I have always operated from the perspective
that, like, We can stay true to that because that feels authentic and
real for us. The rest will sort of unfold. You know, we'll find
other like minded people, and, you know, we have. you know, to
date, which we feel so lucky if for. Yeah.
That's that's beautiful. I I really like the idea of collaboration over
competition, and I think that You just perfectly painted an example of
why that's, like, such an important thing. And, again, it's one of those things that
maybe is counterintuitive because if you look at, like, I don't
know. Just the numbers are from a head perspective. It's like, well, technically, they are
my competition. If they take this client, then I don't have that client.
But I think that scarcity mindset is the thing that holds
people back. And if when you do collaborate with people together in a
setting, you can do more than you ever even imagined. And and maybe that's the
differences. You can only imagine so much. But when there's two people there
or three people or four people or seven people, it's like Who knows
what you can create? And that that to me is, like, so exciting. And what
we were talking about earlier having that more abstract, like, expansive
creative mindset I love
creating collaborative opportunities. Right? So whether it's with
obvious, you know, connections or with people that, you know,
are not such an obvious pairing. But, yeah, like, doing that the
cool work shops and the community events with with in in spaces
and with people that are just like a unique pairing. And I that
comes from community. Right? finding other like minded people
who are willing to kinda dive in with you. And, yeah, I think it keeps
it fresh and exciting and yeah.
Yeah. Well, I know we're kinda wrapping up towards the end of our times. We'll
have to pick a few questions to ask you out of the whole list and
everything else we've talked about. But I I guess for you, like, what
are you excited about next for your business or personally or, like, what what excites
you for the future? Yes. Gino, you're making
me speak it into the universe. This is such a be so
excited. She's like, girl, you got homework. Get out there.
I I'm gonna I'm gonna say it. We're we are I am, like,
in the process right now, we have a large space, which we envision to
be a group space and haven't yet taken that leap
and I am doing it. We're gonna I'm gonna start announcing on social media
we are gonna begin to do a lot more community engagement,
a lot more group work, and creating the opportunity
for what has always been the vision,
but for this for for connected to be a space for therapy, but
also therapeutic experiences outside of the one on one.
And I would say really specifically because this is the evolution of my
practice. It's kind of moving into, like, the mama and family
realm. to create a space and a an opportunity for
connection for people sort of early on in
their their mothering or parenting experience.
Yeah. And so we're we're starting, like, a a a monthly
group and evening events and and some
really powerful collaboration bringing in, like, some artistic
experiential opportunities, sound healing, things like that.
So if expanding the way that we're gonna work with some of our
community members. That's that's amazing. I
recently was at a fireside chat of somebody who It's
it's like, I'm struggling to even, like, come up with a term, I guess, wellness
center maybe. Uh-huh. because she it's a bit of a therapy practice, but then also,
like, the sound healing and, like, different sorts of maybe alternative
healing or or nontraditional. And it's really, for me, interesting
to see these sorts of healing centers have so many things
like you were saying. So it's not just therapy, but it's also these other things
that can kinda maybe help with integration and and stuff like
that. And to me, that's, like, really exciting, and
it's it's been really exciting talking to you. And if somebody wants to,
like, connect with you or or find you online. Do you
only work in person with people in the San Diego
area or Do you do online therapy and that sort of thing too? Yeah. We
do. As a practice, we offer in person and telehealth, and we
also have coaches who can work anywhere in the United States.
therapists, the client needs to be in California. But now we have
the ability as a practice to support people across the United States.
which is amazing and been such a gift. Our
website is connected to seen heard.com. We're also on
instagram, which is connected dot seen. Heard.
You'll you'll see my face on there. I I do my best to to keep
up with our audience who's been amazing. Yeah. And,
you know, we are here to support and help if if we
can. So, yeah, anything that we can do to support.
Well, I will definitely put all that in the show notes so people don't have
to remember it. And thank you so much for all of the healing
that you're providing to your community, and the voice that you have
and the platforms that you have. And for coming on my podcast and and being
able to share yourself with more people, I I really appreciate it. Thank
you, Gino. It's amazing to get to know you more. As you said,
we got to work together on the editing side of things, but this was just
such a joy. So thank you for the opportunity. Thank you, and
and best of luck with speaking your vision into existence.
Thank you. I appreciate that.
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