WEBVTT NOTE This file was generated by Descript 00:00:00.141 --> 00:00:04.251 Shannon Putman: Yellow everybody, and welcome to the pop. 00:00:04.311 --> 00:00:05.421 You know where it's at. 00:00:05.421 --> 00:00:07.401 You know what's popping at the pop? 00:00:07.401 --> 00:00:08.361 That's what they say, right? 00:00:08.361 --> 00:00:09.711 Do kids still say what's popping? 00:00:09.711 --> 00:00:10.251 I don't think so. 00:00:10.941 --> 00:00:15.321 Anyways, it is me, Shannon, and I am here with one special treat for you. 00:00:15.321 --> 00:00:16.641 I have associate re. 00:00:16.971 --> 00:00:19.341 Research professor Amber Roland. 00:00:19.341 --> 00:00:25.851 And now I know all my, all my Syracuse friends and, uh, all my, um, bills fans. 00:00:25.851 --> 00:00:26.511 Don't worry. 00:00:26.511 --> 00:00:32.601 I know she's at can at the, at Kansas, but we're gonna, we're gonna allow her on the pop today anyway 'cause she's that good. 00:00:32.933 --> 00:00:33.353 Amber Rowland: Thank you. 00:00:33.353 --> 00:00:34.412 Thank you for having 00:00:34.446 --> 00:00:39.791 Shannon Putman: Could you just kind of gimme a little bit of background about you and, and your journey and, and kind of what you're up to? 00:00:40.431 --> 00:00:41.391 Amber Rowland: Absolutely. 00:00:41.391 --> 00:00:59.973 So I have been at the University of Kansas for 23 years now, and got my PhD in 2012 and have been, A PI on various different projects through, um, virtual reality use, but also anything technology integration has been kind of my passion over the years. 00:01:00.273 --> 00:01:07.623 And specifically I would say my expertise is in professional development, um, and supporting the implementation of technology. 00:01:08.215 --> 00:01:11.425 and then specifically with students, typically with disabilities. 00:01:12.770 --> 00:01:13.700 Shannon Putman: Wonderful. 00:01:13.700 --> 00:01:18.560 And that's an, that's an incredibly interesting, uh, background and field to be in right now. 00:01:18.946 --> 00:01:23.956 you know, you mentioned your, your passion for working with technology and the professional development. 00:01:23.956 --> 00:01:31.606 Um, I, that's been a big topic on this podcast because I don't think education is nearly as far along into the VR journey as. 00:01:31.606 --> 00:01:33.036 The industry thinks it is. 00:01:33.336 --> 00:01:38.916 So what is one of the big challenges you found with integrating new technology, especially in education? 00:01:39.376 --> 00:01:39.666 Amber Rowland: Yeah. 00:01:39.771 --> 00:01:47.571 Well, if you'd asked me this before chat, GPT launched, um, I would say talking people into believing that it works and that it's helpful. 00:01:47.901 --> 00:01:56.871 Um, now similar to what was happening when I first started, you know, in the late nineties, early two thousands, I was trying to talk people into using. 00:01:57.531 --> 00:01:59.301 The internet, like it's not scary. 00:01:59.376 --> 00:02:01.431 It, it will not eat the world alive. 00:02:01.431 --> 00:02:05.091 And we can do amazing things with the internet, I promise you should use it in your classroom. 00:02:05.421 --> 00:02:13.701 Uh, and now we're, we're having similar conversations about artificial intelligence and, uh, the notion that we cannot take the street away from the kids. 00:02:13.701 --> 00:02:15.291 We do have to teach 'em how to cross it. 00:02:15.291 --> 00:02:23.135 And I think that has been something, throughout my career that I've been trying to help people not be afraid because you don't know it. 00:02:23.135 --> 00:02:30.187 So it's scary, but, Helping people understand the application that can be there to support all learners, especially those with disabilities. 00:02:30.187 --> 00:02:35.141 And, I, I hate to see people not use it with kids because, um, it can help them so much. 00:02:35.560 --> 00:02:36.220 Shannon Putman: Absolutely. 00:02:36.220 --> 00:02:38.290 The impact is truly profound. 00:02:38.290 --> 00:02:43.780 And I always say that, you know, I've, I, I know I sound like a snake oil salesman, but like our snake oil works, you know? 00:02:43.780 --> 00:02:46.960 And it almost sounds too good to be true, but it really isn't. 00:02:47.029 --> 00:02:51.499 but I also think along with that, you know, being overwhelmed, there's that fear too. 00:02:51.499 --> 00:02:54.679 And especially now with AI and with, you know. 00:02:55.339 --> 00:03:01.759 With the metaverse and, and you know, avatars and things like that, educators are incredibly fearful of being replaced. 00:03:02.329 --> 00:03:10.999 And so how do you teach them that, you know, this is how you integrate it into your instruction, but you maintain the role still out of educator. 00:03:10.999 --> 00:03:11.059 I. 00:03:11.389 --> 00:03:11.959 Amber Rowland: Yes. 00:03:12.259 --> 00:03:16.766 One of my colleagues, Samantha Goldman talks about, the educator's, the, uh, superhero. 00:03:17.531 --> 00:03:21.251 Artificial intelligence is the sidekick or the, or the technology of any kind. 00:03:21.251 --> 00:03:26.981 And I always like to refer to it as a, as a digital assistant, and just like any assistant, you have to train them. 00:03:27.071 --> 00:03:28.271 You have to check their work. 00:03:28.511 --> 00:03:33.251 You have to make sure that what they're producing is something that represents you and the concepts that you know. 00:03:33.251 --> 00:03:37.781 Because ultimately, educators are the content experts and they know their kids best. 00:03:38.171 --> 00:03:40.481 And so my big thing with. 00:03:40.481 --> 00:03:47.281 When I'm working with teachers in the field, but also my undergraduates here at KU, is helping them understand that it is simply another tool. 00:03:47.281 --> 00:03:53.440 It is a really fancy pencil, and you can misuse pencils, but you can also use them for good. 00:03:53.440 --> 00:04:00.556 And so, maintaining integrity and, and always checking their work, that digital assistant is the critical piece. 00:04:00.866 --> 00:04:02.336 Shannon Putman: That's a, a very good analogy. 00:04:02.336 --> 00:04:05.816 I'm a huge fan of analogies as well, and so I appreciate a good one. 00:04:05.816 --> 00:04:06.686 And I like that one. 00:04:06.686 --> 00:04:08.606 I might have to borrow that. 00:04:08.699 --> 00:04:11.159 but yeah, exactly right, like every step of the way. 00:04:11.159 --> 00:04:23.125 It's been, you know, a new tool and, you know, to help support and the industry also, like I, I've seen, I don't wanna say, I guess they get frustrated with educators, but they're like, well, it just needs to be plug and play. 00:04:23.455 --> 00:04:26.575 And I was like, well, that isn't the answer all the time either. 00:04:26.575 --> 00:04:28.075 There's a time and a place for everything. 00:04:28.135 --> 00:04:32.815 But then that doesn't allow the, the educator to maintain their creativity. 00:04:33.055 --> 00:04:35.605 And then that is when they're feeling replaced. 00:04:35.605 --> 00:04:36.085 If it's like. 00:04:36.580 --> 00:04:36.910 Yep. 00:04:36.970 --> 00:04:39.640 Just put it on, put the kids in it, and they go away and do it. 00:04:39.640 --> 00:04:43.690 And you're not even a part of it in the digital world or in the physical world. 00:04:44.155 --> 00:04:44.515 Amber Rowland: Right. 00:04:44.695 --> 00:04:49.405 Well, and so voice, uh, one of the virtual reality programs that we can talk about today. 00:04:49.477 --> 00:04:50.467 it was designed. 00:04:50.874 --> 00:04:57.444 To be used independently with a student on an iPad, a Chromebook, an Oculus headset, a Windows machine. 00:04:57.804 --> 00:05:05.352 Um, it was built in Unity, so it has a lot of different applications and can be used in different devices, I always say it is not the be all to end all. 00:05:05.412 --> 00:05:08.232 It does help kids learn and practice social skills. 00:05:08.232 --> 00:05:21.957 If they can walk away with 183 new, I mean not new social skills, but they can practice about what we've identified as 183 social skills using 142 different scenarios, and it's awesome for that. 00:05:22.047 --> 00:05:22.917 But ultimately. 00:05:23.502 --> 00:05:26.742 The kids don't necessarily know how to do social skills until they go do it. 00:05:26.892 --> 00:05:29.082 In the real world, they have to generalize. 00:05:29.082 --> 00:05:39.072 So Voice Advisor is a website we created for anybody who wants to implement social skills, and the idea there is to help educators support generalization so they. 00:05:39.212 --> 00:05:45.242 Still have to go out and do some of the direct instruction and role play practice that it requires for a student to actually do it. 00:05:45.242 --> 00:05:49.532 Because there are a lot of students, in our case, our demographic tends to be students with autism. 00:05:49.532 --> 00:05:56.462 There are a lot of students with social skill needs who know the right answer and what you want them to tell you they're gonna, you're gonna go do. 00:05:56.462 --> 00:05:58.472 But when it comes to brass tax, they don't actually do it. 00:05:59.352 --> 00:06:01.542 And so we have to support generalization. 00:06:01.542 --> 00:06:15.972 So that's a huge piece of the professional development that we do with our virtual reality environment is helping understand that the teacher really still has to help the teach the students implement down the road in the real world. 00:06:16.321 --> 00:06:16.811 Shannon Putman: exactly. 00:06:17.016 --> 00:06:22.761 That generalization is critical for anybody, and especially like you said, any of our students, you know, with. 00:06:23.421 --> 00:06:29.357 A SD or those type of, disabilities where they're, you know, getting it one time and then nope. 00:06:29.357 --> 00:06:30.497 Gotta do it again and again. 00:06:30.497 --> 00:06:40.337 And, you know, and I think nowadays too, even because a lot of kids in general are so reliant on technology, I'm seeing a lack of social skills from your non-special ed students. 00:06:40.337 --> 00:06:48.093 So the idea, I mean, I have, gen ed teachers asking for scenarios where they can, the students can practice making a phone call. 00:06:48.523 --> 00:06:53.143 Because they don't even like make phone calls and make their own, you know, doctor's appointments and everything now. 00:06:53.143 --> 00:06:57.528 So how are you seeing technology affecting communication as a whole? 00:06:58.298 --> 00:07:06.955 Amber Rowland: I was just actually in Denver with, a Group Prospect Academy, but the, the teachers were telling me how much students struggle because COVID. 00:07:07.301 --> 00:07:15.701 just completely created a wall for a lot of people to just be online, but also our kids, especially our middle school students, which is what voice is, is made for. 00:07:16.061 --> 00:07:19.991 They go home and they play games, and they're used to communicating with other kids. 00:07:20.286 --> 00:07:25.506 Sometimes in games and sometimes they're just on Minecraft and they don't wanna communicate with anybody. 00:07:25.506 --> 00:07:28.326 They're just in the game and that's what they do all evening. 00:07:28.326 --> 00:07:32.882 And so they've lost those social skills, and that ability to communicate. 00:07:32.882 --> 00:07:44.852 And they need scenarios where they can go in and watch people their own age, communicate with other people their own age, and then figure out how to handle that situation because it is definitely an epidemic. 00:07:45.032 --> 00:07:45.512 It's. 00:07:45.932 --> 00:07:47.012 It's very difficult. 00:07:47.012 --> 00:07:49.952 And it's not just kids with disabilities, but all kids. 00:07:49.952 --> 00:07:51.002 And we get that all the time. 00:07:51.002 --> 00:07:53.912 We have people emailing to say, Hey, can my fifth graders use this? 00:07:53.912 --> 00:07:55.142 They're getting ready for middle school. 00:07:55.142 --> 00:07:55.622 Absolutely. 00:07:55.622 --> 00:07:56.282 That'd be perfect. 00:07:56.762 --> 00:08:09.082 You know, have them take the opportunity to get in there and see what it's like to be in a middle school and some of the scenarios they're gonna run into, but also as they go up into high school and think about, the situations that'll be a little bit different than what we have in voice, but still. 00:08:09.367 --> 00:08:18.395 You know, it's dealing with bullying, it's dealing with how to ask to join, all those bits and pieces that middle school kids already are socially awkward. 00:08:18.782 --> 00:08:23.882 And so pretty much anybody can benefit, uh, from doing a little bit of social skill practice. 00:08:24.090 --> 00:08:31.350 Shannon Putman: And you mentioned voice, um, a couple times now, and I just wanted to make sure that, uh, everybody had a chance to understand kind of exactly. 00:08:31.350 --> 00:08:39.625 Can you just give us a little walkthrough of what it is and, and how it, um, helps student practice, students practice those social skills because it's incredibly impressive. 00:08:39.625 --> 00:08:43.590 So I want everybody to, to know all about it and be able to check it out and everything too. 00:08:44.120 --> 00:08:46.070 Amber Rowland: Absolutely so voice. 00:08:46.070 --> 00:08:48.860 You can go to project voice.org to learn more about it. 00:08:49.160 --> 00:08:52.460 Um, voice was the original product. 00:08:52.460 --> 00:08:53.990 I also wanna be sure I don't forget to talk about. 00:08:53.990 --> 00:08:56.120 I know, because it's the next iteration of voice. 00:08:56.180 --> 00:08:57.560 So let's start with voice. 00:08:57.890 --> 00:08:59.235 It's been developed over the last. 00:09:00.230 --> 00:09:01.340 13 years. 00:09:01.580 --> 00:09:09.380 Um, it started as a, uh, Sean Smith started as a little bitty thing called Avis, and it has just blown up over the years into what it is now. 00:09:09.740 --> 00:09:13.490 And it's designed to help middle school students learn and practice social skills. 00:09:13.520 --> 00:09:14.840 And again, we have 183. 00:09:15.260 --> 00:09:17.180 Social skills represented. 00:09:17.510 --> 00:09:24.110 Um, they have the opportunity to get in and learn and practice in various different scenarios because as we know, social skills build on each other. 00:09:24.230 --> 00:09:31.490 And so you might see a certain skill in one scenario, and then you might go a couple scenarios and find it again, and you get to practice it in a different way. 00:09:31.910 --> 00:09:35.540 Um, so we try to facilitate some generalization of those social skills as well. 00:09:36.020 --> 00:09:40.265 But you're gonna run into, well, there's 143 different, uh, scenarios. 00:09:40.265 --> 00:09:42.155 They're all about three to five minutes long. 00:09:42.155 --> 00:09:42.635 They're not. 00:09:43.080 --> 00:09:45.900 They're not terribly long within voice. 00:09:45.900 --> 00:09:48.810 Students get three or four opportunities to interact. 00:09:48.900 --> 00:09:51.510 Uh, so you get thrown into a social narrative. 00:09:51.510 --> 00:09:55.140 These are all based on social narratives, so you get thrown into a situation. 00:09:55.140 --> 00:09:59.280 So for instance, you might walk into the gym and you watch some kids play in basketball. 00:09:59.610 --> 00:10:05.430 And from the point of view of the first person, which is the way the game's played, you wanna join that basketball game. 00:10:05.635 --> 00:10:08.635 And so you have to figure out how to go in and ask to join. 00:10:08.995 --> 00:10:14.995 And then based on the way that you approach that situation, the avatars react naturally to that. 00:10:14.995 --> 00:10:19.345 So if you, um, if you walk up and steal the ball, they're not gonna, it's not gonna go well for you. 00:10:19.585 --> 00:10:25.375 Um, but if you go and you ask politely to join, then they're gonna pass you the ball and you get to shoot a basket. 00:10:26.085 --> 00:10:31.539 So we try really hard to have, fairly natural consequences, uh, to the way students react. 00:10:32.169 --> 00:10:32.859 Uh, voice. 00:10:32.859 --> 00:10:40.064 Again, it was developed, with older technology, so it's button pushing, but I know is the next iteration that's coming out. 00:10:40.064 --> 00:10:50.084 It's Voice 2.0 and I know is going to have artificial intelligence so that now students can speak and be spoken back to naturally. 00:10:50.364 --> 00:10:52.734 With avatars who talk like middle school kids. 00:10:52.914 --> 00:10:56.907 Um, it was one of the criticisms we got from voice is, middle school kids don't talk like that. 00:10:58.287 --> 00:10:59.157 Well, that's true. 00:10:59.157 --> 00:10:59.877 They don't. 00:10:59.937 --> 00:11:11.427 Uh, 'cause it was written by adults, uh, and, and teachers, um, in fact, I should mention that voice was created by educators who have years and years of experience working with students who struggle with social skills. 00:11:12.182 --> 00:11:13.412 So it's very research based. 00:11:13.412 --> 00:11:19.532 We have fabulous research to show that kids can learn and practice social skills successfully in voice. 00:11:19.562 --> 00:11:22.382 And now we're super excited to be, uh, developing. 00:11:22.382 --> 00:11:25.052 I know, um, it's actually in beta right now. 00:11:25.052 --> 00:11:27.542 We have 25 scenarios that are working. 00:11:27.976 --> 00:11:29.686 Virtual reality and ai. 00:11:29.746 --> 00:11:40.066 You know, we're, we're pioneering this in the education realm and so we're trying to figure out how to decrease the wait time that it takes to hear back from the avatars because it is artificial intelligence. 00:11:40.066 --> 00:11:41.296 So it's thinking. 00:11:41.386 --> 00:11:42.837 but all of that is solvable. 00:11:42.837 --> 00:11:44.157 You know, that's gonna come with time. 00:11:44.277 --> 00:11:51.147 So I hope that gives you a summary of the two products and, and we're adding a few more cool things I know I can talk about too. 00:11:51.297 --> 00:11:51.537 So. 00:11:52.067 --> 00:11:53.327 Shannon Putman: That absolutely does. 00:11:53.327 --> 00:12:13.733 And as somebody who checked out voice and loved it, um, and would've loved to have used it, on a, a larger scale, uh, I'm super excited for I know, and you brought up a very good point, something that I'm, uh, always talking about too is that sometimes when, you know, we make these products, especially in education or just anything, a lot of times, uh, we don't. 00:12:14.198 --> 00:12:20.528 Yeah, we'll have, we'll get some customer feedback, but like in the designing, we don't have the actual target group. 00:12:20.528 --> 00:12:21.968 And I would see that in deaf ed a lot. 00:12:21.968 --> 00:12:26.828 Like hearing people love to make things for deaf people without ever even asking them if they want it or need it. 00:12:26.935 --> 00:12:32.695 so the fact that, you know, you're like, they actually, you know, we got a criticism that that's not how middle schoolers talk. 00:12:32.695 --> 00:12:34.045 And then, you know, willing to adjust. 00:12:34.045 --> 00:12:38.877 Like, I love that because, I don't like to think of myself as over 40, but I am now and I'm like. 00:12:39.292 --> 00:12:44.482 I don't know what a middle schooler is gonna be saying, so I, they're not gonna say hip or anything like that, so. 00:12:44.862 --> 00:12:46.122 Amber Rowland: Yeah, it's hard to keep up. 00:12:46.122 --> 00:12:46.392 We dunno. 00:12:47.347 --> 00:12:47.647 Shannon Putman: Right. 00:12:47.647 --> 00:12:48.007 Exactly. 00:12:48.007 --> 00:12:49.237 Gotta have like a little cheat sheet. 00:12:49.237 --> 00:12:53.167 But, um, I think that's so important and especially with the role of ai. 00:12:53.167 --> 00:13:00.637 Are you seeing like, some of the things that I love with it are the ability to really train it to go for all of those other scenarios that we couldn't cover. 00:13:00.637 --> 00:13:05.257 Because a lot of times, you know, the book says, you know, you do this and student does this. 00:13:05.257 --> 00:13:12.997 Well, that's not how it always goes, but sometimes, you know, you can work with them and train them to say hello and instead they get a student who just does a head nod. 00:13:13.112 --> 00:13:13.462 Amber Rowland: Right. 00:13:13.882 --> 00:13:18.922 Shannon Putman: So how are you using this to, to account for those other scenarios? 00:13:18.967 --> 00:13:21.697 Amber Rowland: Yeah, I think that is one of the. 00:13:22.057 --> 00:13:23.077 Awesome pieces. 00:13:23.077 --> 00:13:28.807 And also one of the overwhelming components as a developer because we're trying to navigate all those scenarios. 00:13:28.807 --> 00:13:36.735 And even last week I was working with some students, some middle school students, and um, they were using, I know, and they were, trying to trick it. 00:13:36.855 --> 00:13:39.345 And so they were purposely saying things that were a little. 00:13:39.550 --> 00:13:41.260 A little off kilter. 00:13:41.560 --> 00:13:44.680 Um, that probably wouldn't have been the normal way to react. 00:13:44.680 --> 00:13:47.290 When I say normal, I mean, uh, I shouldn't have said that. 00:13:47.320 --> 00:13:51.327 Uh, would I say, the typical way someone might react in a social situation? 00:13:51.674 --> 00:13:55.124 What we're finding is that it's doing a pretty good job. 00:13:55.309 --> 00:13:58.279 it does a nice job and we've trained it to redirect. 00:13:58.369 --> 00:14:07.009 So we'll say something like, oh, well that's an option for how you could react, but it might not garner the reaction that you need in order to be successful. 00:14:07.279 --> 00:14:09.979 Maybe you should try, and then we give it. 00:14:10.129 --> 00:14:13.429 We, it, it offers recommendations for how you can then proceed. 00:14:13.429 --> 00:14:25.759 And that's part of what's awesome about voice is it does reteach and we always say, no kids, were, were harmed in the making of these social skills because typically when you're doing social skill instruction, you have to do some sort of role play. 00:14:25.759 --> 00:14:28.309 So that means that you've got to out a kid. 00:14:29.169 --> 00:14:33.969 To their peers and say, okay, so this student struggles with social skills as though you didn't already know. 00:14:34.179 --> 00:14:40.269 And uh, and here's a specific, um, scenario where they really struggle and will you help us through that? 00:14:40.269 --> 00:14:45.609 I mean, think about the social implications that has for a middle school kid who's being outed to their peers. 00:14:45.609 --> 00:14:47.559 And then not only that, but the peers have to practice with 'em. 00:14:47.559 --> 00:14:48.609 I mean, that's really hard. 00:14:48.803 --> 00:14:57.443 And so we, we created voice to give them that option where they don't necessarily have to do the hard work of practicing and doing it wrong. 00:14:57.503 --> 00:15:03.053 Many times they can crash and burn as many times as they need in order to actually, per progress in. 00:15:03.313 --> 00:15:04.123 The scenario. 00:15:04.393 --> 00:15:11.263 And so we have reteaching that happens from the narrator, so we try to redirect and then we also have videos. 00:15:11.263 --> 00:15:27.943 And that's one of the things that we're gonna do way more of in, I know, is we're gonna actually do modeling so that you can watch two characters doing the, the skill that we're trying to teach so that the, the student can actually see it happening and then be able to react in turn. 00:15:28.300 --> 00:15:29.530 Shannon Putman: I love all of that. 00:15:29.590 --> 00:15:31.480 And it's incredibly exciting too. 00:15:31.840 --> 00:15:37.390 Um, and, and like you said to, if we're going to prepare them for real life, then it needs to be real life. 00:15:37.390 --> 00:15:44.445 So are you seeing any kind of, you know, gaps or, or you know, like big needs in the ed tech space? 00:15:44.445 --> 00:15:49.305 What are, what are you experiencing out there that we might need to develop a little bit more of? 00:15:49.838 --> 00:15:59.215 Amber Rowland: one of the nuts that we're trying to crack right now is the professional development component and how to help educators get just in time, uh, resources. 00:15:59.800 --> 00:16:07.420 Quick because the number one, anytime you ask any educator what's your number one trouble right now is probably gonna be time. 00:16:07.870 --> 00:16:08.920 Time is so hard. 00:16:09.280 --> 00:16:11.742 And so the professional development that us, you know. 00:16:12.177 --> 00:16:17.133 University types like to give, last, you know, a semester, three hours at a time, right? 00:16:17.373 --> 00:16:18.033 It's overwhelming. 00:16:18.033 --> 00:16:18.513 It's a lot. 00:16:18.513 --> 00:16:19.833 And teachers don't have time for that. 00:16:19.833 --> 00:16:27.933 And so figuring out how to do bite-sized professional development that's really packed with good research-based content is hard. 00:16:28.109 --> 00:16:30.239 it, it even seems a bit o in opposition. 00:16:30.239 --> 00:16:34.049 And so that's a nut we're trying to crack mostly through video. 00:16:34.144 --> 00:16:36.064 and I would love to see more. 00:16:36.521 --> 00:16:44.051 Ed tech folks thinking about how they're supporting teachers to effectively implement, um, whatever it is that they're coming up with. 00:16:44.051 --> 00:16:54.191 The other big one, of course, is, as we've mentioned already, is working directly with educators and teacher or, and students in the development of the product. 00:16:54.517 --> 00:16:56.407 there are a lot of ed tech. 00:16:56.442 --> 00:17:04.572 Tools out there that're developed by somebody in a garage who has no education background, but thought it'd be a cool idea for teachers or for the education space. 00:17:04.932 --> 00:17:11.679 And that's just not gonna have the, in, the integrity that it needs in order to be successful and long lasting. 00:17:11.679 --> 00:17:21.202 And so, even with artificial intelligence that can go out there and create scenarios or it can, uh, you know, create lesson plans, you still need a content expert who can say. 00:17:21.857 --> 00:17:28.457 Not for that population or, oh, if you did it that way, it sounds good on paper, but in reality, this is what's gonna happen. 00:17:29.057 --> 00:17:35.237 All of those pieces cannot be forgotten, and teachers need to always remember that they are the experts. 00:17:35.237 --> 00:17:50.267 They know their content, they know their kids, and make sure that when you're, when you're out there looking at an ed tech product that they've worked with educators and students to build it, I think that would be amazing to have more of that and transparency in that. 00:17:50.681 --> 00:18:00.791 Shannon Putman: If I'm, I'm pausing or stumbling over my words, it's 'cause I'm fangirling over here because that's exactly the same things that I've been saying and what I've been trying to do different. 00:18:01.211 --> 00:18:04.596 And, uh, you know, and, and what I think sets me apart as well is. 00:18:05.076 --> 00:18:16.716 The actual professional development, because I have that trifecta experience too, where I actually was a classroom teacher, so I know what it's like and you know, and I've got my PhD so I've got the research, but I've also got the implementation. 00:18:16.716 --> 00:18:20.136 So I know what it takes to get educators where they need to go. 00:18:20.586 --> 00:18:25.656 you know, when we, we talk about how do we actually reach them, that's what we gotta do. 00:18:25.656 --> 00:18:31.956 We gotta hit the ground, we gotta be in there, we gotta be available when they're ready because they are so overwhelmed with everything else. 00:18:32.684 --> 00:18:38.534 Amber Rowland: I just think it, until you're in the middle of it and you see everything that they're dealing with, you have no idea just how hard it is. 00:18:38.534 --> 00:18:42.194 And they're not gonna be able to have a ton of different ed tech tools that they implement. 00:18:42.194 --> 00:18:44.534 They're gonna be able to find a few that work really well. 00:18:44.854 --> 00:18:48.528 and they need to be quick so they can learn it and then use it with kids also. 00:18:48.528 --> 00:18:52.347 Oh, the other thing that we're working on is, communication with parents again. 00:18:52.602 --> 00:18:58.242 People who have even less time frequently than educators to think about an education topic, uh, for their kids. 00:18:58.242 --> 00:19:01.032 But they want their kids to learn and they want their kids to be successful. 00:19:01.032 --> 00:19:09.222 And so we are in the midst right now of developing quick parent resources that could be sent home kind of in a quick email, you know. 00:19:09.482 --> 00:19:11.432 One pager, not even that long. 00:19:11.492 --> 00:19:15.662 One paragraph, just description of what it is that they're learning that week. 00:19:15.902 --> 00:19:21.452 So let's say they're in voice and they're, they're in the, uh, a specific domain, one of our 10 domains. 00:19:21.692 --> 00:19:25.112 You know, if we could just quickly introduce that, give them an overview of it. 00:19:25.112 --> 00:19:26.552 Here's the language that we're using. 00:19:26.552 --> 00:19:29.462 Can you reinforce that at home around the dinner table? 00:19:29.522 --> 00:19:33.602 You know, how can we further bridge that gap between the, the parent and the. 00:19:33.888 --> 00:19:45.528 and the school in supporting students 'cause social skills, especially in, you know, since I do social skill, uh, research, that's a, that's, it needs to be a, a, an overall wrapping thing. 00:19:45.768 --> 00:19:51.408 You know, everywhere you go you're gonna be doing some social skill interactions, so why not practice what we're, what we're doing in school. 00:19:52.103 --> 00:20:05.123 Shannon Putman: Absolutely no, I, I love that because that is such a huge, that, you know, school home connection is such a, a big piece and also in like, you know, home with family and the neighborhood and, you know, all of those things. 00:20:05.123 --> 00:20:10.823 And I always said one of the hardest parts of teaching, um, students with oral communication difficulties is. 00:20:11.593 --> 00:20:18.313 Creating those authentic communication exchanges, like when kids are playing and stuff, like you can't as an adult, like simulate that. 00:20:18.643 --> 00:20:25.603 And so the more of those that we can, you know, create for our students, the more they are getting to express themselves as well. 00:20:25.603 --> 00:20:30.703 That's the thing we don't wanna forget about in the whole process too, is the students getting to express themselves more. 00:20:30.989 --> 00:20:31.439 Amber Rowland: absolutely. 00:20:31.574 --> 00:20:39.614 Shannon Putman: and how neat to go from potentially feeling like you don't have a voice to now you have a method that you can express what you're feeling and thinking, you 00:20:39.734 --> 00:20:40.439 Amber Rowland: Oh yeah. 00:20:41.204 --> 00:20:42.344 I have an example for you. 00:20:42.824 --> 00:20:51.644 So last week, again, I was working with some, some middle school students and I asked, you know, you've been playing voice for, they've been playing voice for like three months. 00:20:51.764 --> 00:20:57.927 I said, you know, is there anything that you can do now that socially that you felt uncomfortable with before you got to play voice? 00:20:57.927 --> 00:21:01.587 And one of them just nailed it and he said, well. 00:21:02.357 --> 00:21:06.077 The scenario where you help me identify emotions has been really helpful. 00:21:06.077 --> 00:21:07.547 And I said, oh, tell me more about that. 00:21:07.547 --> 00:21:11.747 Well, I really struggle with identifying, uh, emotions. 00:21:11.747 --> 00:21:15.137 And so I was able to practice watching somebody in our scenario. 00:21:15.137 --> 00:21:23.297 They're actually sitting in the cafeteria and they're eating food and you know, somebody's happy, somebody's surprised by what they got, somebody's upset by what they ate, you know? 00:21:23.477 --> 00:21:25.967 And so being able to practice seeing facial. 00:21:26.287 --> 00:21:28.627 Features and identify those has been helpful. 00:21:28.627 --> 00:21:37.717 Another student said, you know, the, the one about the sad day, so there's a, there's a scenario where a student is crying because her dog died the night before. 00:21:38.407 --> 00:21:49.885 And so this student said, you know, I, it was really helpful for me to, to experience that and it's to be able to give, Verbal feedback to the student that that's not how the student said it. 00:21:49.885 --> 00:21:59.905 But it was really helpful for me to know what to say to this person who was so sad and in, and when I was, you know, doing it before, I would just sort of not talk to them because I didn't know what to say. 00:22:00.205 --> 00:22:05.215 And so that's the kind of thing we wanna give them, these opportunities to experience hard things. 00:22:06.055 --> 00:22:09.595 Digitally before they have to actually do them in reality. 00:22:09.595 --> 00:22:15.095 So those are just a couple of examples of, where teacher or students have made the connection themselves. 00:22:15.095 --> 00:22:18.875 Like, I know I struggle with this, but voice helped me practice it. 00:22:19.325 --> 00:22:19.985 Yay. 00:22:20.135 --> 00:22:20.706 That's what we wanna hear 00:22:21.224 --> 00:22:21.464 Shannon Putman: Yeah. 00:22:21.464 --> 00:22:26.924 That's unbelievable because even like my generation, we weren't taught like how to handle our emotions and stuff. 00:22:26.924 --> 00:22:30.134 Like it wasn't, you know, like I didn't know anything about boundaries or, 00:22:30.344 --> 00:22:32.114 Amber Rowland: Yeah, it's the hidden curriculum. 00:22:32.114 --> 00:22:37.154 It's the thing we assume kids come with, but they don't, especially post COVID. 00:22:37.377 --> 00:22:41.967 it's amazing what a year and a half will do as far as the social skills that we lost. 00:22:42.542 --> 00:22:43.472 Shannon Putman: um, as we're, 00:22:43.472 --> 00:22:45.182 This has been absolutely fabulous. 00:22:45.182 --> 00:22:51.062 I've had such a wonderful time, and as we're kind of coming towards the close, is there anything else you'd like to kind of share? 00:22:51.062 --> 00:22:57.732 And also, you know, I'm gonna put links and everything in it but, um, anything else that you wanna make sure that people know about? 00:22:58.467 --> 00:22:59.097 Amber Rowland: Yeah. 00:22:59.397 --> 00:23:01.347 You know, reach out if you wanna play voice. 00:23:01.882 --> 00:23:02.722 That would be great. 00:23:02.722 --> 00:23:05.932 We are looking for people to pilot it, um, and use it. 00:23:06.262 --> 00:23:12.952 Uh, we are also gearing up with, I know we are in a beta version, so next year we're gonna need people who wanna test it. 00:23:13.192 --> 00:23:20.885 Um, so we're always looking for kids and educators who wanna give us, you know, play it and give us feedback, help us make it better, in various capacities. 00:23:21.200 --> 00:23:22.460 Uh, for that as well. 00:23:22.460 --> 00:23:26.210 So, don't hesitate to reach out to me, Amber dot roland@ku.edu. 00:23:26.637 --> 00:23:34.287 or you can go to Project Voice or project I know, and you're gonna get the same contact information and, and you can learn a little bit more about us. 00:23:34.287 --> 00:23:37.647 We have a trailer out there if you wanna better understand what voice is. 00:23:37.795 --> 00:23:38.907 and then we're gearing up. 00:23:39.212 --> 00:23:44.993 The, I know, content to help people understand it, but voice is, is up and running and functioning. 00:23:45.061 --> 00:23:48.751 it's right now, it's on the app, which is the Apple Store or Google Play Store. 00:23:48.751 --> 00:23:53.701 You can download it and play, uh, up to six scenarios, uh, for free. 00:23:53.761 --> 00:23:57.511 And then if you want more than that, you've gotta have a code and that's when you can reach out to me. 00:23:57.776 --> 00:24:00.506 and I know is actually, we're not building it right now in Unity. 00:24:00.506 --> 00:24:02.226 We're building it on, a web. 00:24:02.467 --> 00:24:07.147 Servers so that anybody in the world who has a a web enabled device can play it. 00:24:07.177 --> 00:24:10.507 And so that's another big thing that we're moving, from voice to. 00:24:10.507 --> 00:24:14.167 I know it's gonna be a little bit more accessible and robust, so 00:24:14.501 --> 00:24:16.151 Shannon Putman: That's super exciting. 00:24:16.194 --> 00:24:21.983 I, I understand that need too because, um, you know, not everybody has headsets or anything like that. 00:24:21.983 --> 00:24:25.913 And, you know, a a a VR headset is one thing I never force on anybody. 00:24:25.913 --> 00:24:29.573 So if they don't wanna do it, you have to have another, you know, option and things like that. 00:24:29.573 --> 00:24:31.436 So, that's a very smart decision. 00:24:31.762 --> 00:24:33.652 Thank you so much for joining me. 00:24:33.652 --> 00:24:35.332 I've had the most wonderful time. 00:24:35.392 --> 00:24:42.322 Um, if you think you're getting away though, without the closing countdown, you're not so, because you did a lot of like research on writing. 00:24:42.412 --> 00:24:42.892 Um, I was. 00:24:43.682 --> 00:24:48.812 Wasn't gonna out myself, but I'm gonna, I, uh, attributed an acronym from the Louisville Writing Project. 00:24:48.812 --> 00:24:49.052 What Up? 00:24:49.052 --> 00:24:49.712 Jean Wolf? 00:24:50.068 --> 00:24:51.418 and asked her about it. 00:24:51.418 --> 00:24:52.678 She's like, I don't know what that is. 00:24:52.678 --> 00:24:57.838 So thank you, Amber, for being understanding of my newness and my confusion. 00:24:57.898 --> 00:25:01.168 But what are your three favorite fonts? 00:25:01.683 --> 00:25:02.463 Amber Rowland: Oh, okay. 00:25:02.793 --> 00:25:04.713 So Ariel is my favorite. 00:25:05.043 --> 00:25:07.143 Probably because it doesn't have the feet on it. 00:25:07.143 --> 00:25:10.683 And I know for students who have dyslexia dysgraphia, that's very helpful. 00:25:10.683 --> 00:25:12.933 So I tend to use aerial mostly times. 00:25:12.933 --> 00:25:17.853 New Roman is one as a research professor in a PA. They make me use it all the time. 00:25:17.853 --> 00:25:19.563 So I do live in that one. 00:25:19.563 --> 00:25:24.303 And then Comm Sands, comic Sands is one that kids middle school kids love. 00:25:24.303 --> 00:25:27.483 And so I tend to gravitate towards that one as well. 00:25:27.483 --> 00:25:28.503 So those are my big three. 00:25:28.908 --> 00:25:29.928 Shannon Putman: I like it. 00:25:29.988 --> 00:25:31.158 Those are definitely good. 00:25:31.998 --> 00:25:36.048 Very nice little fancy in there, a little practical like it. 00:25:36.378 --> 00:25:36.948 Amber Rowland: There you go. 00:25:37.793 --> 00:25:39.893 Shannon Putman: Well again, Amber, this was absolutely wonderful. 00:25:39.893 --> 00:25:42.443 Um, you guys are doing fabulous work. 00:25:42.443 --> 00:25:54.503 Everybody needs to check it out and, uh, I can't wait to continue to, uh, use it some more and hopefully get to collaborate with you and, uh, maybe we can do another follow up when I know was officially out there and, and rocking it, so. 00:25:54.788 --> 00:25:55.688 Amber Rowland: that would be awesome. 00:25:55.688 --> 00:25:56.408 Would love to. 00:25:57.048 --> 00:25:58.368 Shannon Putman: Well, thank you again so much. 00:25:58.368 --> 00:25:58.578 Uh. 00:25:59.003 --> 00:25:59.583 Amber Rowland: You're welcome. 00:25:59.583 --> 00:26:00.393 Thank you.