1 00:00:02,620 --> 00:00:05,010 Welcome to Digication Scholars Conversations. 2 00:00:05,479 --> 00:00:06,870 I'm your host, Jeff Yan. 3 00:00:07,500 --> 00:00:11,580 In this episode, you will hear part two of my conversation with Sharyl Toscano, 4 00:00:12,310 --> 00:00:15,949 professor at the School of Nursing at University of Alaska, Anchorage. 5 00:00:17,129 --> 00:00:21,270 More links and information about today's conversation can be found on Digication's 6 00:00:21,330 --> 00:00:23,269 Twitter, Facebook, and Instagram. 7 00:00:23,650 --> 00:00:27,220 Full episodes of Digication Scholars Conversations can be found on 8 00:00:27,230 --> 00:00:28,950 YouTube or your favorite podcast app. 9 00:00:31,050 --> 00:00:35,949 If it becomes busy work, to be honest, I, I, I tell people, I'd rather you then 10 00:00:35,960 --> 00:00:40,769 don't ask them to reflect because now they have this really negative association 11 00:00:40,769 --> 00:00:43,610 with a reflection and they're like, Oh, you know, I don't want to do this. 12 00:00:43,620 --> 00:00:44,339 This is boring. 13 00:00:44,370 --> 00:00:46,960 Oh, this is, this is just you. 14 00:00:47,519 --> 00:00:52,870 I actually heard about, I heard a student say this and I was so sad by it. 15 00:00:53,450 --> 00:00:59,440 They said when, um, they were advising another student 16 00:00:59,460 --> 00:01:01,480 actually, I overheard this. 17 00:01:01,940 --> 00:01:07,420 They said, Basically, the professor wants you to stroke their ego. 18 00:01:08,240 --> 00:01:10,410 Oh, my. 19 00:01:10,419 --> 00:01:12,890 And, and you can see why though, right? 20 00:01:12,890 --> 00:01:13,370 They would think that. 21 00:01:13,929 --> 00:01:18,079 Because they are saying, the professor taught you a bunch of stuff this semester. 22 00:01:18,100 --> 00:01:20,830 At the end they are saying, what did I, what did you learn? 23 00:01:21,335 --> 00:01:27,415 If you say, I learned all the stuff you taught me, hey, that's the right answer. 24 00:01:28,505 --> 00:01:29,065 Wow. 25 00:01:30,405 --> 00:01:30,695 Right? 26 00:01:31,225 --> 00:01:32,174 That's sad, right? 27 00:01:32,255 --> 00:01:32,615 Yeah. 28 00:01:32,925 --> 00:01:33,205 Yeah. 29 00:01:33,205 --> 00:01:33,285 That's sad. 30 00:01:33,615 --> 00:01:35,774 That is not exactly what you're looking for. 31 00:01:35,774 --> 00:01:36,714 That's when I like, 32 00:01:36,745 --> 00:01:42,124 please stop asking them to reflect because you are really actually, um, 33 00:01:42,164 --> 00:01:45,775 if anything, you, you push them further into the hole of that they will never 34 00:01:45,775 --> 00:01:48,895 get out of, you know, because if that's how they think about this section, 35 00:01:49,744 --> 00:01:55,119 um, it, it becomes Not only busy work, it actually was for your benefit. 36 00:01:55,820 --> 00:01:59,570 It wasn't even for them, like, it wasn't even busy work just to, 37 00:01:59,570 --> 00:02:01,050 all right, we have to get it done. 38 00:02:01,380 --> 00:02:06,169 It was more like a, oh, well, you just needed, needed some reassurance 39 00:02:06,190 --> 00:02:07,310 that you've done it for you. 40 00:02:07,310 --> 00:02:09,259 Yes. 41 00:02:09,539 --> 00:02:12,919 Isn't, you know, sometimes I get with the essentials, oh, that's 42 00:02:12,939 --> 00:02:16,919 just for accreditation, which it is a great way to show that you've 43 00:02:16,919 --> 00:02:20,459 met the standards, but that's not really the point of the assignment. 44 00:02:20,489 --> 00:02:21,429 That's just sort of one of the. 45 00:02:22,755 --> 00:02:23,655 Extras, right? 46 00:02:23,685 --> 00:02:26,605 That, oh, because, you know, when you go through accreditation for different, 47 00:02:26,645 --> 00:02:30,455 you know, whatever program, you have to show examples of student work. 48 00:02:30,615 --> 00:02:35,524 Um, so, yes, I, you know, I, I do, I tell the students, well, yes, it 49 00:02:35,525 --> 00:02:39,614 is a great example of the work that you've done here, but that's not really 50 00:02:39,614 --> 00:02:43,095 why that we do the assignment, um, 51 00:02:45,265 --> 00:02:48,415 uh, because we can pull that work together in other ways. 52 00:02:49,464 --> 00:02:51,325 The portfolio is just a nice way to do it. 53 00:02:51,325 --> 00:02:56,125 But the key point to the assignment is actually that one of the reasons 54 00:02:56,125 --> 00:03:01,974 it made me think of doing this is, uh, I saw students, particularly more 55 00:03:01,974 --> 00:03:07,325 recently, you know, um, we've kind of passed our golden years in nursing, 56 00:03:07,325 --> 00:03:09,964 I think, going into a different era. 57 00:03:09,994 --> 00:03:16,385 But, you know, they just, Um, They just go through school and they, I don't, there 58 00:03:16,385 --> 00:03:18,665 wasn't seeing a lot of acknowledgement of what they'd accomplished. 59 00:03:18,665 --> 00:03:20,134 They're just like, I just need to get through school. 60 00:03:20,134 --> 00:03:21,145 I just need to get through school. 61 00:03:21,735 --> 00:03:23,065 And I wasn't really that student. 62 00:03:23,065 --> 00:03:23,915 I love school. 63 00:03:23,924 --> 00:03:26,375 Like school was, I'm still in school. 64 00:03:26,375 --> 00:03:26,675 Right. 65 00:03:26,675 --> 00:03:27,815 So I obviously just 66 00:03:27,905 --> 00:03:28,475 You never left. 67 00:03:28,835 --> 00:03:28,895 Yeah. 68 00:03:28,895 --> 00:03:28,985 I 69 00:03:28,985 --> 00:03:29,705 love school. 70 00:03:30,125 --> 00:03:34,834 And so I wanted to kind of leave them with some appreciation for the, like, show 71 00:03:34,834 --> 00:03:36,515 them what they've actually accomplished. 72 00:03:36,515 --> 00:03:42,855 So this, this project actually kind of, you have to review everything that you've 73 00:03:42,855 --> 00:03:46,655 done for the, across the whole program. 74 00:03:46,925 --> 00:03:48,875 And they're doing it right before they graduate. 75 00:03:48,965 --> 00:03:52,345 And most students will share at the end, they're like, well, this, you 76 00:03:52,345 --> 00:03:54,845 know, I wasn't really excited about this to begin with, but I really 77 00:03:54,845 --> 00:03:57,874 feel like I've done, I didn't realize how much I'd actually accomplished, 78 00:03:57,875 --> 00:03:59,815 how much I'd actually done here. 79 00:04:00,204 --> 00:04:01,994 And so they do that right before. 80 00:04:02,315 --> 00:04:03,364 I love that. 81 00:04:03,385 --> 00:04:10,520 I, I do wish that More people allow students to have more opportunities 82 00:04:10,670 --> 00:04:12,860 to do that more frequently and early. 83 00:04:13,550 --> 00:04:22,250 Um, but this idea in my mind of, um, not just any students, any, any humans, 84 00:04:22,250 --> 00:04:29,880 anyone to have the, to get given some time and space to say, here is a body of 85 00:04:30,635 --> 00:04:34,104 Work or body of things that you've done. 86 00:04:34,695 --> 00:04:35,925 It doesn't have to be work, right? 87 00:04:35,925 --> 00:04:40,335 It could be play, it could be other kinds of, you know, experiences 88 00:04:40,335 --> 00:04:41,625 and achievements and whatnot. 89 00:04:42,674 --> 00:04:46,965 The ability for someone to have the time and space to just go, here's a 90 00:04:46,965 --> 00:04:49,065 body of things that you've, you've done. 91 00:04:49,875 --> 00:04:55,594 Um, some people, you know, think of it as sort of integrated learning. 92 00:04:55,895 --> 00:04:59,945 But I, I think that there's, I, I love that, but I also 93 00:04:59,945 --> 00:05:02,925 think that there is a, um, 94 00:05:06,304 --> 00:05:12,814 a really interesting, almost like neurological model that 95 00:05:12,814 --> 00:05:18,784 gets structured around your self worth and your sense of self. 96 00:05:20,695 --> 00:05:21,445 And so 97 00:05:24,154 --> 00:05:30,224 to me, every time that You know, anytime that someone gets a chance to 98 00:05:30,224 --> 00:05:35,185 say, Hey, let's take a look at your body of work, or you have to present 99 00:05:35,185 --> 00:05:40,474 your body of work, maybe not in the like, like formal presentation, but 100 00:05:40,474 --> 00:05:43,444 more like telling a friend, telling a new person that you never know 101 00:05:43,445 --> 00:05:45,794 about, you know, doing a podcast. 102 00:05:49,194 --> 00:05:56,804 That, that it, it sort of builds additional like neuro, like, you 103 00:05:56,804 --> 00:06:02,515 know, connections in your, in your brain that says, ah, that's 104 00:06:02,554 --> 00:06:03,965 the kind of person that I am. 105 00:06:03,965 --> 00:06:07,715 This is how I, this is how I do life, you know? 106 00:06:09,505 --> 00:06:09,825 Yeah. 107 00:06:09,945 --> 00:06:11,255 I think that's amazing. 108 00:06:11,324 --> 00:06:15,305 I think that's a, what a gift that you, you give your students. 109 00:06:16,245 --> 00:06:18,235 Just kind of flip the lens a little bit. 110 00:06:19,205 --> 00:06:19,594 Yeah. 111 00:06:19,825 --> 00:06:20,135 Yeah. 112 00:06:20,245 --> 00:06:21,405 I think it's, I think it's wonderful. 113 00:06:21,565 --> 00:06:29,265 This is why I, I, I I wish that people make that a bigger part of life in 114 00:06:29,265 --> 00:06:33,514 general, so it's not like, Oh, well, now that you're graduating, look what 115 00:06:33,515 --> 00:06:35,664 you've done in this last four years. 116 00:06:35,664 --> 00:06:39,865 But I always feel like, you know, what happened this week, you know? 117 00:06:39,865 --> 00:06:41,504 I 118 00:06:41,884 --> 00:06:45,405 feel like when you have adolescence, you could have like, Those are 119 00:06:45,405 --> 00:06:47,095 your parenting successes, right? 120 00:06:48,255 --> 00:06:49,055 Well, that's how 121 00:06:49,055 --> 00:06:50,325 you keep yourself sane. 122 00:06:52,195 --> 00:06:57,075 Um, can we, would you mind if we switch the topic for a moment? 123 00:06:57,104 --> 00:07:04,384 I, I know that you also work with, um, I mean, there's been a, uh, 124 00:07:04,425 --> 00:07:10,044 um, a pattern of you working with natives, the native population. 125 00:07:10,824 --> 00:07:11,034 Yeah. 126 00:07:11,374 --> 00:07:16,350 Sounds like first in, in, uh, Well, it's definitely in, in, in both in 127 00:07:16,390 --> 00:07:18,370 Hawaii and Alaska, but maybe elsewhere. 128 00:07:18,370 --> 00:07:19,360 So have you that, 129 00:07:19,400 --> 00:07:23,200 um, For indigenous, mostly just Hawaii and Alaska. 130 00:07:23,780 --> 00:07:24,200 Yeah. 131 00:07:24,610 --> 00:07:27,230 And can you tell us a little bit more about that? 132 00:07:27,240 --> 00:07:27,810 What is that? 133 00:07:27,850 --> 00:07:28,830 What does that mean? 134 00:07:28,839 --> 00:07:30,299 What is the work? 135 00:07:31,380 --> 00:07:31,920 What is it like? 136 00:07:31,920 --> 00:07:32,370 What did you do? 137 00:07:33,470 --> 00:07:40,440 Um, yeah, so in , um, you, in Hawaii I worked the, um, Hawaiian 138 00:07:40,445 --> 00:07:45,610 population, but also American Samoa, Tonga, um, other populations. 139 00:07:45,880 --> 00:07:48,780 Um, I was more the health center there. 140 00:07:48,785 --> 00:07:50,610 I was more in the, um. 141 00:07:51,645 --> 00:07:57,395 Working in the military, you know, which is its own, um, culture. 142 00:07:57,905 --> 00:08:00,094 Uh, so mostly I worked with students. 143 00:08:00,605 --> 00:08:04,115 And one of the things that was really unique in Hawaii that I noticed is no one 144 00:08:04,115 --> 00:08:06,145 in Hawaii says, why aren't you a doctor? 145 00:08:06,795 --> 00:08:14,790 Which, nursing is And so much so that sometimes when students 146 00:08:14,790 --> 00:08:17,680 weren't successful, they were actually happy because they 147 00:08:17,680 --> 00:08:19,120 actually didn't want to be a nurse. 148 00:08:20,830 --> 00:08:23,029 And I was expecting all this disappointment, you know, when 149 00:08:23,029 --> 00:08:26,099 they're, when they actually were like, Oh, thank goodness, you 150 00:08:26,099 --> 00:08:27,039 know, cause they actually didn't. 151 00:08:27,320 --> 00:08:28,219 Didn't want to do it. 152 00:08:28,249 --> 00:08:30,280 So that was a big, big 153 00:08:30,719 --> 00:08:31,280 culture. 154 00:08:31,309 --> 00:08:32,850 Is it just a general culture? 155 00:08:32,850 --> 00:08:33,076 I 156 00:08:33,076 --> 00:08:36,760 think it's something unique about when I was in Hawaii, it was just very much, 157 00:08:37,460 --> 00:08:40,309 you know, other places people often say, well, why aren't you a doctor? 158 00:08:40,319 --> 00:08:40,559 Why? 159 00:08:40,650 --> 00:08:43,079 You know, it's like a, but not there. 160 00:08:43,089 --> 00:08:45,559 Like nursing is very respected. 161 00:08:46,160 --> 00:08:49,990 And so, it was kind of a very unique experience while, while I was there. 162 00:08:50,600 --> 00:08:55,189 Um, but definitely like the storytelling that we've been talking about is very 163 00:08:55,199 --> 00:09:00,970 integral to both Hawaiian and very much so in the Alaska Native population. 164 00:09:00,980 --> 00:09:04,489 And I would say I've worked more closely with the Alaska Native population 165 00:09:04,529 --> 00:09:10,430 like here because I've been with the, the, the hospital since 2012. 166 00:09:10,480 --> 00:09:17,045 So, um, and with fam working a lot with families and So when, when 167 00:09:17,095 --> 00:09:22,505 families come in for health care, like Anchorage is a hub, and so we 168 00:09:22,505 --> 00:09:25,885 get families from a lot of the rural villages that will come to the hub. 169 00:09:25,894 --> 00:09:29,605 Whereas on the adult side of the, of the hospital, sometimes you get 170 00:09:29,605 --> 00:09:33,494 patients from the hubs, but there's more access to adult care at the 171 00:09:33,494 --> 00:09:35,064 other hubs that aren't Anchorage. 172 00:09:35,654 --> 00:09:41,830 And so, you know, when you think about, um, You know, a lot of things 173 00:09:41,830 --> 00:09:46,120 we've been talking about as far as the nonviolent communication, it's, it's 174 00:09:46,120 --> 00:09:47,979 a very non-confrontational culture. 175 00:09:48,579 --> 00:09:56,619 And so, um, often, and it's not hierarchical like the hospital, the 176 00:09:56,619 --> 00:09:58,329 hospital is owned by the people. 177 00:09:58,680 --> 00:10:03,160 So the patient is the owner, it's a customer, owner is 178 00:10:03,160 --> 00:10:04,175 the word that he Mm-Hmm. 179 00:10:04,254 --> 00:10:04,694 is used. 180 00:10:05,574 --> 00:10:09,355 And so it really changes the dynamic in the hospital because, you know, somebody 181 00:10:09,694 --> 00:10:15,685 who's, you know, doing housekeeping or, um, you know, is at their desk or, you 182 00:10:15,685 --> 00:10:21,005 know, even the provider, they all may own the hospital, you know, the owner. 183 00:10:21,475 --> 00:10:25,964 And so all of these sort of, um, levels of hierarchy, for me, I've noticed is 184 00:10:25,964 --> 00:10:27,344 really nice because that's removed. 185 00:10:27,954 --> 00:10:29,385 And so I feel like Like 186 00:10:30,074 --> 00:10:34,945 this is the This is the big boss, and then you're the second and the third big boss. 187 00:10:36,575 --> 00:10:36,885 Right. 188 00:10:36,945 --> 00:10:37,865 I, I don't 189 00:10:37,895 --> 00:10:39,535 feel that as much there. 190 00:10:40,155 --> 00:10:46,305 And, and so, um, but the stories, like often I would bring students over to 191 00:10:46,305 --> 00:10:50,775 the hospital too sometimes, and I would disappear, like literally for 40 minutes. 192 00:10:50,785 --> 00:10:51,845 They'll say, well, where were you? 193 00:10:51,855 --> 00:10:53,780 And I was like, well, I just, Got the greatest story. 194 00:10:53,800 --> 00:10:58,469 You just, if you go into a room and you start talking to an elder and you just 195 00:10:58,740 --> 00:11:04,650 hear the most amazing stories because, um, the culture there is amazing storytelling. 196 00:11:05,150 --> 00:11:09,649 Um, you know, once it was about the last time that this person was in 197 00:11:09,650 --> 00:11:13,249 the hospital was actually when she was a young girl and it was during 198 00:11:13,250 --> 00:11:15,119 the earthquake, the big earthquake. 199 00:11:16,780 --> 00:11:22,339 And so, but it's a different way of doing health assessment because Before I went 200 00:11:22,339 --> 00:11:28,650 into the room, the patient was um, very anxious and the nurses were having trouble 201 00:11:30,730 --> 00:11:31,780 providing care. 202 00:11:32,540 --> 00:11:35,520 And then I sat down and talked with her and I figured out where 203 00:11:35,520 --> 00:11:36,609 the anxiety was coming from. 204 00:11:36,609 --> 00:11:39,619 She was sort of thinking back to her last time. 205 00:11:40,400 --> 00:11:41,509 It's a different hospital. 206 00:11:41,509 --> 00:11:45,439 They actually built a new hospital, but for her, all these things had 207 00:11:45,439 --> 00:11:49,675 happened the last time she'd been They call it the native hospital. 208 00:11:49,675 --> 00:11:50,715 That's their name for it. 209 00:11:50,725 --> 00:11:55,485 But, um, and so I don't know, it's just, I don't know if that answers your 210 00:11:55,485 --> 00:11:59,324 question, but it's a very different way of, it's more of a narrative medicine 211 00:11:59,325 --> 00:12:04,114 approach that I would take with, um, my patients at the hospital where I 212 00:12:04,114 --> 00:12:10,024 try to figure out the story as opposed to like coming in with a, you know, 213 00:12:10,024 --> 00:12:11,524 checklist of what are your symptoms? 214 00:12:11,654 --> 00:12:12,984 You're not going to get very far. 215 00:12:13,185 --> 00:12:19,655 If you approach health in that way, um, or I've seen people approach 216 00:12:19,655 --> 00:12:22,375 education where they have this list of things they're going to go through 217 00:12:22,375 --> 00:12:28,824 to educate as opposed to, um, sort of integrating it into your daily care. 218 00:12:31,379 --> 00:12:35,099 Yeah, it's been a gift to work with the Colt. 219 00:12:35,119 --> 00:12:41,449 I just, um, it's one of the, it's probably the best hospital I've worked for, I 220 00:12:41,449 --> 00:12:43,670 think, uh, as far as just the population. 221 00:12:44,360 --> 00:12:45,370 And, um, 222 00:12:47,560 --> 00:12:50,099 I don't know, it's just, it's just been a real gift to work 223 00:12:50,099 --> 00:12:50,419 there. 224 00:12:50,479 --> 00:12:52,209 I think that is so amazing. 225 00:12:52,210 --> 00:12:59,200 Um, I can, I can see why you are wired the way that you are and 226 00:12:59,200 --> 00:13:01,579 what draw you to all of this work. 227 00:13:02,180 --> 00:13:11,280 Um, do you think that there is something, what are some of your 228 00:13:11,400 --> 00:13:15,279 observations in terms of, you know, you talk about storytelling, right? 229 00:13:15,565 --> 00:13:20,494 It's a big part of the culture, it's a big part of the ability to tell these 230 00:13:20,494 --> 00:13:25,405 amazing stories and, and have gathered so many stories, but only we all have 231 00:13:25,685 --> 00:13:29,775 lots of lived experience, but we don't, at least in sort of the, the sort of 232 00:13:29,775 --> 00:13:34,414 mainland, you know, Western culture, you know, we don't think of these as 233 00:13:34,425 --> 00:13:38,875 stories, we don't collect them, we, we just sort of, it happened and that was 234 00:13:38,875 --> 00:13:44,454 it, maybe it's more like the, you know, you tell people at a bar, you know, like, 235 00:13:44,455 --> 00:13:52,625 but, but, you know, But there are many cultures where stories are treasured. 236 00:13:53,815 --> 00:13:58,744 You collect them like you are, you know, like, like people 237 00:13:59,055 --> 00:14:01,534 collect certificates, you know. 238 00:14:01,994 --> 00:14:05,164 Um, and I don't want to say, it's not the vain way of saying, 239 00:14:05,165 --> 00:14:06,344 hey, I just have a certificate. 240 00:14:06,354 --> 00:14:08,155 It's just like, you really value them. 241 00:14:08,165 --> 00:14:09,135 They are useful. 242 00:14:09,375 --> 00:14:13,595 It can come in, in handy at some point in your life, you know. 243 00:14:14,930 --> 00:14:20,020 I think there is something so beautiful about that, that we are almost kind 244 00:14:20,020 --> 00:14:27,780 of, for some reason have missed the boat on, you know, like I see a lot of 245 00:14:27,790 --> 00:14:34,789 students, for example, going to school and I'm talking even K 12 schools, right? 246 00:14:35,860 --> 00:14:44,290 Um, where you had talked about, you know, NVC being used in certain models, right? 247 00:14:45,850 --> 00:14:52,110 In the more mainstream sort of traditional school model, I see students, 248 00:14:52,750 --> 00:14:56,519 including students coming, you know, I'm sure coming to your classes, 249 00:14:56,939 --> 00:14:59,740 where they go, I have an assignment. 250 00:15:00,510 --> 00:15:02,079 Tell me what I need to do. 251 00:15:02,569 --> 00:15:03,630 Tell me what the expectation is. 252 00:15:03,640 --> 00:15:05,489 How do I get an A on this? 253 00:15:05,550 --> 00:15:05,949 Right. 254 00:15:06,319 --> 00:15:07,180 I'll do it. 255 00:15:08,060 --> 00:15:11,809 Not only do I, when I do it, I'll do a good job at following all of those 256 00:15:11,819 --> 00:15:18,709 things, but the second that I submit it to you, or hit the submit button, 257 00:15:18,750 --> 00:15:22,509 whatever, you know, whether it's a paper or technology, it doesn't matter. 258 00:15:23,740 --> 00:15:25,330 The second I do that, I'm done. 259 00:15:26,270 --> 00:15:26,440 Right. 260 00:15:26,630 --> 00:15:28,020 I don't think about it ever again. 261 00:15:28,450 --> 00:15:30,760 It's not part of the story that I keep. 262 00:15:31,130 --> 00:15:33,060 In fact, I get to forget it. 263 00:15:33,840 --> 00:15:34,260 Right. 264 00:15:34,570 --> 00:15:40,329 Now I've done it, so you grade it, and then it will exist as a some kind of 265 00:15:40,660 --> 00:15:44,260 percentage in my grades, and that's it. 266 00:15:45,925 --> 00:15:51,175 I think that's a, there's something there that, that makes me feel really sad about 267 00:15:51,175 --> 00:15:57,595 because that narrative, that accumulative sort of narrative, that body of work, 268 00:15:58,315 --> 00:16:01,555 um, is so incredibly powerful and useful. 269 00:16:02,294 --> 00:16:08,520 Where, when I think about these very fragmented, fragmented Pieces where 270 00:16:08,730 --> 00:16:12,450 the person does it in almost like a very short term, short memory game. 271 00:16:12,700 --> 00:16:15,800 You just kind of do it and then you just don't think about it anymore. 272 00:16:16,460 --> 00:16:16,680 It's 273 00:16:17,019 --> 00:16:20,199 almost like, um, to me, it feels like a waste of time. 274 00:16:20,229 --> 00:16:22,220 It feels like that time just got lost. 275 00:16:22,920 --> 00:16:24,530 Because you didn't get much out of it. 276 00:16:25,940 --> 00:16:27,819 It's sort of the what's on the test phenomenon. 277 00:16:28,660 --> 00:16:29,720 Yeah, right. 278 00:16:29,720 --> 00:16:30,990 You study for a test. 279 00:16:31,890 --> 00:16:34,320 At the end of the test, you just kind of like, you just really go, 280 00:16:34,320 --> 00:16:37,330 I did well on the test, but you really just, even if someone asks you 281 00:16:37,330 --> 00:16:40,450 that same thing again in like three days, you'd be like, I have no idea. 282 00:16:41,089 --> 00:16:43,010 I knew it three days ago, by the way. 283 00:16:45,100 --> 00:16:49,030 I've had these as an, you know, as an educator, I've had these, you know, 284 00:16:49,060 --> 00:16:52,579 classes where I've, you know, I've been like, I feel like you're, I'm on fire, 285 00:16:52,579 --> 00:16:56,339 you know, I have these great stories pulling out all these concepts and ideas. 286 00:16:57,130 --> 00:16:59,019 And, you know, the students are engaged and then. 287 00:16:59,560 --> 00:17:02,360 Always at the end of the class, somebody will say, so which, 288 00:17:02,400 --> 00:17:03,360 what if that is on the test? 289 00:17:03,360 --> 00:17:04,946 I'm just 290 00:17:04,946 --> 00:17:05,750 like, oh 291 00:17:05,750 --> 00:17:10,310 my gosh, you know, it's always kills me. 292 00:17:13,450 --> 00:17:13,710 Yeah. 293 00:17:16,689 --> 00:17:26,329 What do you think are some of the, it seems like that you're very in tuned 294 00:17:26,329 --> 00:17:28,030 with what students are doing these. 295 00:17:28,079 --> 00:17:34,189 I mean, you talked earlier about sort of going from, uh, you know, nursing has 296 00:17:34,189 --> 00:17:39,570 changed, you know, you're talking about team nursing and things that you weren't. 297 00:17:40,205 --> 00:17:45,295 That you said, you know, that's not how I was trained or how I practiced before. 298 00:17:46,065 --> 00:17:46,545 Um, 299 00:17:48,655 --> 00:17:53,845 and of course that probably means that, you know, you also have to now change 300 00:17:53,885 --> 00:17:59,074 in how you teach your students and new skills, new ways of teaching and learning, 301 00:18:00,055 --> 00:18:03,330 and then you had talked about certain, you know, sort of, you know, need to, Figure 302 00:18:03,360 --> 00:18:06,990 out how to take care of themselves and dealing with burnouts and stuff like that. 303 00:18:08,409 --> 00:18:13,540 If, you know, it's sort of like a very like, you know, sky view level 304 00:18:13,560 --> 00:18:16,020 looking at nursing education right now. 305 00:18:17,109 --> 00:18:23,100 What are some of the, what do you think some of the big, um, either 306 00:18:23,100 --> 00:18:27,210 where some of the hurdles but also some opportunities are in advancing? 307 00:18:27,955 --> 00:18:32,345 You know, the field and making, I love your vision of, Hey, they shouldn't 308 00:18:32,355 --> 00:18:35,605 even have to be resilient because it implies that something's wrong. 309 00:18:35,615 --> 00:18:36,665 They have to just survive it. 310 00:18:37,294 --> 00:18:40,565 But how do they naturally just kind of thrive it because 311 00:18:40,595 --> 00:18:42,294 it's just an enjoyable thing. 312 00:18:42,899 --> 00:18:46,480 Well, by the way, I think that it's probably correct me if I'm wrong, but 313 00:18:46,760 --> 00:18:51,500 I think people, most people want to go into nursing because they, they, they 314 00:18:51,500 --> 00:18:54,640 can get joy out of helping other people. 315 00:18:55,820 --> 00:18:56,010 That's a 316 00:18:56,010 --> 00:18:56,780 common, yeah. 317 00:18:57,079 --> 00:18:57,429 Right. 318 00:18:57,730 --> 00:19:00,719 Or they've had some life experience that has brought them close and 319 00:19:00,720 --> 00:19:02,450 they've recognized all that. 320 00:19:02,470 --> 00:19:03,040 How important 321 00:19:03,100 --> 00:19:05,149 that would be to bring it to another person. 322 00:19:05,230 --> 00:19:05,500 Yeah. 323 00:19:05,780 --> 00:19:06,100 You know? 324 00:19:06,120 --> 00:19:06,300 Yeah. 325 00:19:08,175 --> 00:19:15,565 That's such, these are such worthy, like, root level, like, directions, you know? 326 00:19:16,365 --> 00:19:19,615 So what happened and how do we, like, what are some of the 327 00:19:19,615 --> 00:19:21,064 opportunities now that you see? 328 00:19:21,235 --> 00:19:23,605 Maybe team nursing is part of the thing? 329 00:19:23,605 --> 00:19:24,204 I don't know. 330 00:19:24,204 --> 00:19:25,425 I mean, I don't know enough about it. 331 00:19:25,425 --> 00:19:26,254 Can you tell us more? 332 00:19:26,345 --> 00:19:30,824 Well, for that, I'm hoping that, I think the team structure happened 333 00:19:31,354 --> 00:19:36,129 during, you know, The pandemic, like it was a necessity because 334 00:19:37,149 --> 00:19:38,590 you just didn't have the people. 335 00:19:38,629 --> 00:19:43,780 So you, you know, my personal philosophy is that the, you know, 336 00:19:43,870 --> 00:19:48,670 that's not the model that's actually going to be the best moving forward. 337 00:19:49,470 --> 00:19:55,120 But sometimes you have to drop back to these survival modes where the 338 00:19:55,320 --> 00:20:00,889 emphasis might be safety, efficiency, you know, you, you, and you, you 339 00:20:00,899 --> 00:20:05,029 lose some of those other aspirations during times of, you know, extreme. 340 00:20:07,445 --> 00:20:12,595 Circumstances, but sometimes I think on the admin side or the hospital side, 341 00:20:13,495 --> 00:20:15,614 they see the cost savings of those now. 342 00:20:15,664 --> 00:20:16,044 Right? 343 00:20:17,355 --> 00:20:18,125 And so, 344 00:20:18,164 --> 00:20:21,635 well, because you've cut some corners, so there's some savings. 345 00:20:22,920 --> 00:20:25,780 You have to realize that the corners you cut, someone's paying for it. 346 00:20:26,460 --> 00:20:28,070 There's a different cost somewhere. 347 00:20:28,100 --> 00:20:33,879 And so there's always this, um, you know, there's that side that they want, 348 00:20:33,899 --> 00:20:38,540 you know, more nurses, cheaper nurses, you know, there's, and there's been 349 00:20:38,540 --> 00:20:42,219 less unionization of nurses compared to the past where, you know, that those 350 00:20:42,229 --> 00:20:43,690 sort of things are kept in balance. 351 00:20:44,350 --> 00:20:49,080 So I think right now there's, you know, and I'm not, I'm not in the sort of 352 00:20:49,250 --> 00:20:55,790 Nurse Management Arena, but there's definitely this sort of conflict 353 00:20:55,830 --> 00:20:59,420 between, you know, staffing ratio. 354 00:20:59,580 --> 00:21:04,169 There's been legislation trying to regulate staffing ratios of 355 00:21:04,170 --> 00:21:07,189 nursing and there's always been lots of lobbyists that come out. 356 00:21:07,229 --> 00:21:12,940 In many states, it hasn't been successful convincing, you know, the consumer that 357 00:21:13,470 --> 00:21:18,010 this is going to somehow make their care worse because, you know, I don't think 358 00:21:18,010 --> 00:21:24,235 they understand, um, That when you have a nurse who has too many patients that 359 00:21:24,235 --> 00:21:29,655 that's actually what is driving your care, not necessarily that, you know, 360 00:21:30,045 --> 00:21:34,724 they're sending in these arguments and about, you know, this is decreasing 361 00:21:34,724 --> 00:21:39,395 their access because it's You know, the provider will only be able to take 362 00:21:39,395 --> 00:21:44,805 care of this number of patients, but, you know, in health care, it's hidden. 363 00:21:45,065 --> 00:21:46,014 Quality is hidden, right? 364 00:21:46,014 --> 00:21:46,525 You don't know. 365 00:21:46,905 --> 00:21:50,975 Your surgeon might, you know, be nice to chat with or, but you 366 00:21:50,975 --> 00:21:55,335 really don't know the quality of surgeon that he or she is, right? 367 00:21:55,335 --> 00:22:00,935 And in the other areas, Quality is not as hidden. 368 00:22:00,945 --> 00:22:04,325 You know, if you buy a dress and it falls apart in a week, like, you 369 00:22:04,325 --> 00:22:05,665 know, that that was not very good. 370 00:22:06,295 --> 00:22:08,455 You know, if you have poor quality healthcare, you might 371 00:22:08,455 --> 00:22:11,085 not know ever, or that might not. 372 00:22:11,380 --> 00:22:14,170 You might not realize it for, for years. 373 00:22:14,960 --> 00:22:15,400 It's too late. 374 00:22:16,120 --> 00:22:16,480 Yeah. 375 00:22:16,940 --> 00:22:20,890 And so anyway, I'm kind of got off on tangent, but there is this sort 376 00:22:20,890 --> 00:22:26,139 of things happen during pandemic time that are emergency and you know, 377 00:22:26,140 --> 00:22:28,809 there was legislation and things that allowed for that to happen, 378 00:22:28,809 --> 00:22:30,230 like changing some of the rules. 379 00:22:30,809 --> 00:22:35,579 And now as we're starting to get back into those, those rules are, they're changing. 380 00:22:36,604 --> 00:22:38,044 We don't need those rules anymore. 381 00:22:38,614 --> 00:22:43,215 Um, I think sometimes they're looking at the cost difference, but I think 382 00:22:43,215 --> 00:22:48,844 that students do have to be prepared for, um, what they might see. 383 00:22:48,975 --> 00:22:51,254 You know, are they going to be asked to kind of function 384 00:22:51,254 --> 00:22:53,004 in a more team like scenario? 385 00:22:53,004 --> 00:22:55,504 And that's more where you're task oriented. 386 00:22:55,504 --> 00:22:59,444 So instead of having the care for one patient, uh, which is kind of 387 00:22:59,524 --> 00:23:02,254 somewhat of a safety nut, because you have somebody who has eyes on them. 388 00:23:03,845 --> 00:23:06,004 what's physical therapy doing, what's speech doing, what are the docs 389 00:23:06,065 --> 00:23:09,195 doing, what, you know, the nurses usually has eyes on all of that. 390 00:23:09,825 --> 00:23:11,875 Um, so there divide more in tasks. 391 00:23:11,915 --> 00:23:15,244 So this person's doing medications, this person's doing procedures. 392 00:23:15,674 --> 00:23:19,294 Um, we're delegating all this to CNA or LPN. 393 00:23:20,114 --> 00:23:29,930 Um, Probably, it's more like the system when I very, like 1994, you know, it 394 00:23:29,930 --> 00:23:35,050 was myself, a new grad, I would have 10 patients, the LPN would have 10 patients 395 00:23:35,050 --> 00:23:41,720 and really at the time, the LPN, although I, you know, I, she, I was, she was 396 00:23:41,720 --> 00:23:45,420 really in charge of me, if, if, to be honest, because she had, you know, she'd 397 00:23:45,420 --> 00:23:50,415 been in nursing for 40 years and, you know, um, um, But as far as the licensing 398 00:23:50,425 --> 00:23:55,495 agreements and things that they could do, you were sort of not their supervisor, 399 00:23:55,495 --> 00:23:57,215 but you were sort of the lead of the team. 400 00:23:57,225 --> 00:24:02,244 So there was this kind of strange dynamic there when, um, they were really 401 00:24:03,035 --> 00:24:08,754 extremely, so I'm not dismissing the value of LPNs because I learned a ton 402 00:24:10,095 --> 00:24:13,205 and I wouldn't be the nurse I am today without the LPNs that I worked with. 403 00:24:13,725 --> 00:24:17,819 But back then, um, The acuity was very different. 404 00:24:17,819 --> 00:24:20,879 We had patients that don't even stay overnight anymore. 405 00:24:20,920 --> 00:24:25,429 So you'd basically out of those 10 patients, one or two would be sick and 406 00:24:25,429 --> 00:24:29,860 the rest were sort of your standard post op, um, patients that nowadays 407 00:24:29,909 --> 00:24:31,770 go home, like you don't even see them. 408 00:24:32,580 --> 00:24:36,569 And so when implementing some of this team based, that's when it 409 00:24:36,569 --> 00:24:40,510 becomes really stressful because you have extremely sick patients. 410 00:24:41,379 --> 00:24:45,840 Um, and you just, it's very stressful. 411 00:24:47,435 --> 00:24:52,095 When you start being responsible for more than say, I think, uh, in Peds anyway, 412 00:24:52,095 --> 00:24:54,125 it's like four in the NICU, we have three. 413 00:24:54,514 --> 00:24:59,835 Um, but on some of the adult floors, they can see six to eight, maybe more patients. 414 00:25:00,175 --> 00:25:03,105 So if you think about that in an hour, they're supposed to touch 415 00:25:03,584 --> 00:25:05,275 base with that patient every hour. 416 00:25:05,945 --> 00:25:08,575 So if you have six to eight in an hour, You're just 417 00:25:08,825 --> 00:25:12,915 constantly running around, you know, yeah, you can't, yeah. 418 00:25:13,565 --> 00:25:13,775 Yeah. 419 00:25:13,815 --> 00:25:21,400 So it's really, um, you, you know, it's, Nursing, uh, nurses are costly, I suppose, 420 00:25:21,420 --> 00:25:23,510 but it also costs more to close the unit. 421 00:25:23,590 --> 00:25:26,100 So there's all these kind of cost drivers there. 422 00:25:26,660 --> 00:25:31,469 Um, but I think one of the bigger things is to give nursing, new 423 00:25:31,470 --> 00:25:34,939 nurses, a voice of when it's unsafe. 424 00:25:35,119 --> 00:25:37,909 And so how do they, how do they express that? 425 00:25:37,939 --> 00:25:42,905 And, um, You know, what are the rules and regulations around that? 426 00:25:42,915 --> 00:25:44,045 Like, you can't abandon a patient. 427 00:25:44,065 --> 00:25:47,635 If you show up and you get an assignment that's unsafe, you can't leave 428 00:25:47,645 --> 00:25:48,735 because that's abandoning a patient. 429 00:25:48,735 --> 00:25:51,915 And many, many of the boards of nursing, you can get disciplined for that. 430 00:25:51,945 --> 00:25:56,195 So, so it's how do they document that unsafe assignment without 431 00:25:56,994 --> 00:25:58,715 having consequences to their license? 432 00:25:58,715 --> 00:26:03,285 And how do they make change within the system they're in? 433 00:26:04,030 --> 00:26:06,970 Um, sort of in a productive way. 434 00:26:07,710 --> 00:26:10,820 Um, so kind of focusing on some of those tools. 435 00:26:12,430 --> 00:26:16,009 By the way, coming sort of full circle, I, I feel like that those 436 00:26:16,059 --> 00:26:17,439 tools that we're talking about. 437 00:26:18,054 --> 00:26:23,705 Uh, the kind of reflective storytelling and conversational, you know, sort of 438 00:26:23,975 --> 00:26:29,175 tools that you're preparing with your students, nonviolent way of communicating 439 00:26:29,175 --> 00:26:35,615 those things, ways to be able to, to, to do things without judgment and not 440 00:26:35,615 --> 00:26:40,574 blaming to, you know, in any specific people or a person and just being able 441 00:26:40,574 --> 00:26:44,234 to calmly go in and look at a situation. 442 00:26:44,235 --> 00:26:44,694 Yeah. 443 00:26:44,694 --> 00:26:45,154 Yeah. 444 00:26:45,154 --> 00:26:45,404 Yeah. 445 00:26:46,030 --> 00:26:50,620 And I can see like, as soon as you flip it, when you're not attacking the person. 446 00:26:51,500 --> 00:26:54,700 And you're saying, you know, I'm feeling really scared. 447 00:26:54,700 --> 00:26:57,510 You know, if you start off with that, the manager is like, what? 448 00:26:57,790 --> 00:27:02,249 You know, instead of you did this, this, and this, I was like, I'm, I'm 449 00:27:02,250 --> 00:27:03,760 putting me into this position. 450 00:27:04,569 --> 00:27:04,749 I've 451 00:27:04,760 --> 00:27:07,360 said that I'm, I'm scared. 452 00:27:07,370 --> 00:27:08,620 And they're like, okay. 453 00:27:09,039 --> 00:27:10,410 Their ears open. 454 00:27:10,430 --> 00:27:10,790 Right. 455 00:27:11,470 --> 00:27:11,730 When you, 456 00:27:11,960 --> 00:27:15,730 But it does require that they also share a little bit of their vulnerability. 457 00:27:16,110 --> 00:27:21,180 Because when you're using any of the storytelling or NBC, you, you, 458 00:27:21,400 --> 00:27:23,079 you are a little bit vulnerable. 459 00:27:23,239 --> 00:27:28,299 So that takes a little practice to be open to that when, you know, 460 00:27:28,300 --> 00:27:33,540 sometimes your first instinct is to just You know, keep quiet and 461 00:27:35,250 --> 00:27:40,500 practice is in fact, what's so healthy though, you know, like in a, in the case 462 00:27:40,500 --> 00:27:45,610 of you be then being able to do it with you in a, in an education environment 463 00:27:45,630 --> 00:27:52,189 in a class where, you know, they are hopefully safe from themselves, from 464 00:27:52,190 --> 00:27:56,610 you, from their, their colleagues so that you can, they can practice that 465 00:27:56,610 --> 00:27:59,580 because I think it is a skill, isn't it? 466 00:27:59,580 --> 00:28:02,030 It's a skill that you practice enough that. 467 00:28:02,705 --> 00:28:06,344 You'd then be able to use that in a situation. 468 00:28:06,764 --> 00:28:09,784 And by the way, this is kind of amazing to me. 469 00:28:09,824 --> 00:28:13,685 Because people talk about 470 00:28:16,225 --> 00:28:25,064 reflection in this, as this very nebulous, abstract concept. 471 00:28:25,244 --> 00:28:30,904 That it's like, if you've done it, or done it well, or experienced it, you 472 00:28:30,924 --> 00:28:32,164 know it, and you feel great about it. 473 00:28:32,165 --> 00:28:33,174 And you learn from it. 474 00:28:33,814 --> 00:28:34,834 And that's kind of it. 475 00:28:35,205 --> 00:28:38,715 But if you haven't, you know, I have no way to tell you what it is. 476 00:28:39,345 --> 00:28:45,015 Um, it's like telling someone about riding a bicycle or swimming or love, 477 00:28:45,155 --> 00:28:49,304 you know, like, yeah, I don't know how to describe it, but you actually 478 00:28:49,304 --> 00:28:53,205 just kind of created a very solid, 479 00:28:55,235 --> 00:29:07,185 um, Example of how that reflective skill can really be used in a, in 480 00:29:07,185 --> 00:29:14,385 a very productive practical way in how do you confront situations with 481 00:29:14,404 --> 00:29:17,985 this case, even with the actual skill of doing the confrontation itself. 482 00:29:18,224 --> 00:29:21,435 But just mentally, first of all, how do you confront that situation 483 00:29:21,435 --> 00:29:25,265 when you're like, I'm scared, I'm in danger, I'm in, uh, you know, I, this 484 00:29:25,275 --> 00:29:26,755 is not fair or this is not right? 485 00:29:26,954 --> 00:29:28,535 Because it may not be in nursing, right? 486 00:29:29,245 --> 00:29:29,605 Um, 487 00:29:31,854 --> 00:29:36,355 I really feel like that there's a lot that, well, I certainly have learned 488 00:29:36,355 --> 00:29:40,945 a lot, but I think that a lot of our listeners will learn from this in how, 489 00:29:42,535 --> 00:29:49,924 for me, a very, a very advanced set of, um, topics that you've discovered, 490 00:29:50,004 --> 00:29:56,655 sort of one after the other, that I really feel like that whether I'm 491 00:29:56,665 --> 00:29:59,205 teaching in a STEM program or in a. 492 00:30:00,050 --> 00:30:08,210 You know, in the arts or humanities, I could borrow a lot of what you are saying, 493 00:30:09,490 --> 00:30:16,439 um, and use it very positively for sort of general, you know, education and pedagogy. 494 00:30:16,730 --> 00:30:17,220 I really do. 495 00:30:17,220 --> 00:30:20,590 I think that it's, you know, you've created, you've lent us a 496 00:30:20,659 --> 00:30:23,239 really beautiful insight to this. 497 00:30:23,960 --> 00:30:29,460 Um, I especially love this thing that at the end that you said, I don't even think 498 00:30:29,460 --> 00:30:34,620 that you thought you, you, you, you did it on like sort of like deliberately, 499 00:30:34,620 --> 00:30:36,340 but I was like, wait, hold on a minute. 500 00:30:36,860 --> 00:30:40,279 So all of those communication and processing skills that you 501 00:30:40,280 --> 00:30:41,849 have students do, which is in. 502 00:30:42,120 --> 00:30:45,420 You know, the way that you teach them how to reflect could be 503 00:30:45,430 --> 00:30:49,110 used, in fact, to communicate with someone to solve a problem. 504 00:30:49,630 --> 00:30:53,850 So it's no longer this abstract, just, you reflect and you feel great, and then 505 00:30:53,850 --> 00:30:55,690 you now go home and get a better sleep. 506 00:30:56,120 --> 00:30:58,420 It's more like, no, literally, I'm in trouble. 507 00:30:58,420 --> 00:31:01,579 I needed to go in and talk to someone about something, and I'm 508 00:31:01,590 --> 00:31:05,760 using, borrowing some of the skills to go in and do that communication. 509 00:31:05,850 --> 00:31:06,580 I think it's lovely. 510 00:31:08,460 --> 00:31:11,374 That's my hope that they'll use it. 511 00:31:12,325 --> 00:31:16,405 Well, Sharyl, I feel like that, um, there's much more 512 00:31:16,405 --> 00:31:18,365 that we can learn from you. 513 00:31:18,365 --> 00:31:22,625 And I hope that, um, we get to do that again soon. 514 00:31:23,284 --> 00:31:29,235 Um, but today I think this is a good, um, first chapter of Sharyl 515 00:31:29,254 --> 00:31:30,994 and her wisdom from nursing. 516 00:31:31,645 --> 00:31:36,165 Um, but really like, I think there's so much to unpack, you know, your experience 517 00:31:36,175 --> 00:31:41,700 with, um, You know, um, Native Alaskan, especially now, you know, all of these 518 00:31:41,700 --> 00:31:47,079 kind of, um, I mean, I haven't thought about a culture that is, you know, based 519 00:31:47,079 --> 00:31:52,250 on, that is so, has so much, plays so much value on narrative, for example. 520 00:31:52,789 --> 00:31:59,900 That's a, that's a, that's a, that just opens up so many possibilities 521 00:31:59,910 --> 00:32:01,800 in my mind, like, right away. 522 00:32:02,250 --> 00:32:03,620 Um, so, we gotta talk more. 523 00:32:03,640 --> 00:32:08,890 But, um, for today, we will, we will pause for now. 524 00:32:08,970 --> 00:32:11,500 Uh, hopefully we can, we can talk more again soon. 525 00:32:11,620 --> 00:32:16,489 And, uh, Sharyl, I, I can't thank you enough. 526 00:32:16,559 --> 00:32:21,150 Um, you've, uh, this is, this is, this is incredible for 527 00:32:21,160 --> 00:32:23,220 me as a learning experience. 528 00:32:23,700 --> 00:32:25,900 Um, I, I appreciate you so much. 529 00:32:26,450 --> 00:32:27,030 Thanks, Jeff. 530 00:32:27,150 --> 00:32:27,500 It's been fun. 531 00:32:28,330 --> 00:32:28,670 Thanks. 532 00:32:29,470 --> 00:32:29,810 All right. 533 00:32:29,970 --> 00:32:30,290 Take care. 534 00:32:32,030 --> 00:32:36,080 Coming up next, we'll be chatting with Kyle Hewson, Vice Chair and 535 00:32:36,080 --> 00:32:39,620 Clinical Associate Professor in the Doctorate in Physical Therapy 536 00:32:39,620 --> 00:32:42,289 program at Stonybrook University. 537 00:32:42,339 --> 00:32:43,560 Here's a quick preview. 538 00:32:44,510 --> 00:32:48,905 So the idea that They put up a PowerPoint that they did in their 539 00:32:48,905 --> 00:32:50,665 first year with two or three people. 540 00:32:50,905 --> 00:32:55,364 Even just to show them how advanced they've become in some of their 541 00:32:55,364 --> 00:32:59,614 presentations by the third year, you know, they have this and that, and they're 542 00:32:59,614 --> 00:33:01,564 just, their references are awesome. 543 00:33:01,564 --> 00:33:03,864 And they're able to pull in a video or something. 544 00:33:03,864 --> 00:33:07,055 So just, and they feel so much more comfortable because they say, Oh, I 545 00:33:07,055 --> 00:33:11,705 was such a nervous person that first time I had to get up 80, 80 students. 546 00:33:12,015 --> 00:33:13,815 You know, so, so it's kind of neat. 547 00:33:14,040 --> 00:33:14,680 You know, that. 548 00:33:14,870 --> 00:33:15,870 See you next time!