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      "speaker": "Speaker 1",
      "startTime": "0.71999997",
      "endTime": "28.675",
      "body": "At the time of this recording, NASA had recently posted an open casting call of sorts for any and all people willing to commit two years to living in a Mars or moon simulation. This idea makes sense. If we're ever gonna establish any kind of lunar or martian base, there's still a lot of things we need to figure out. This kind of thing is not new. It's called an Analog mission and it's basically a dry run for real missions that will take place in outer space."
    },
    {
      "speaker": "Speaker 1",
      "startTime": "29.96",
      "endTime": "63.29",
      "body": "Usually they happen in extreme environments like the Utah Desert or in Antarctica. During these missions, they conduct simulations to learn more about what living in space could actually be like. Everything from growing food to testing new hardware to understanding the human psyche and really just about any knowledge that could be useful to future astronauts is field tested right here on planet Earth. Most of the time, these missions are funded by research or government institutions like NASA. Other times, it's a completely amateur undertaking."
    },
    {
      "speaker": "Speaker 1",
      "startTime": "64.090004",
      "endTime": "89.83",
      "body": "But whoever they are, wherever they're doing it and whoever's paying them to do it, the work they do just may contribute to some kind of future space colony. By some estimates, thousands of people have already taken part in Analog missions and thousands more may be preparing to do so. Regular, everyday civilians walking among us are helping shape the next frontier. And I got to speak with some of them."
    },
    {
      "speaker": "Speaker 2",
      "startTime": "89.83",
      "endTime": "98.945",
      "body": "I'm Jasper Awol and my Analog experience all started back in 2020 in my parents' back garden."
    },
    {
      "speaker": "Speaker 3",
      "startTime": "99.345",
      "endTime": "107.185005",
      "body": "Hi. My name is Ben Corbin. I was a member of the Mars Desert Research Station Analog Crew back in 2006."
    },
    {
      "speaker": "Speaker 1",
      "startTime": "108.945",
      "endTime": "122.44",
      "body": "And I'm Stuart. I'm not an analog astronaut, but I did get to talk to them. This is Crew Collective, where we tell stories about outer space. And my story on Analog Astronauts is next."
    },
    {
      "speaker": "Speaker 4",
      "startTime": "132.05501",
      "endTime": "161.61502",
      "body": "Crew Collective is brought to you by Rocketgenius, makers of Gravity Forms. Gravity Forms was the first premium WordPress contact form plug in launched in the space over fifteen years ago. Since then, brands like NASA, Delta, and Stanford University have relied on Gravity Forms for their WordPress form data. But so have tens of thousands of freelancers, agencies, and small creators, powering payment forms to newsletter sign ups. For small and large alike, Gravity Forms understands their mission."
    },
    {
      "speaker": "Speaker 4",
      "startTime": "161.695",
      "endTime": "172.815",
      "body": "Build amazing software that people trust. Learn more at gravity.com. And we trust you enjoy Crew Collective as much as the team at Rocket Genius did making it."
    },
    {
      "speaker": "Speaker 3",
      "startTime": "177.72",
      "endTime": "211.17",
      "body": "Hi. My name is Ben Corbin. I have a PhD in space systems engineering from MIT. I was a member of the Mars Desert Research Station Analog Crew back in 2006. I've worked in a lot of jobs involving, small satellite design, economics of outer space, space policy, position navigation and timing, hand by hand in some of the conferences where we discussed, business in space, new space entrepreneurs, done a lot of traveling."
    },
    {
      "speaker": "Speaker 3",
      "startTime": "211.17",
      "endTime": "246.71501",
      "body": "I was a ISU alumni of the summer program back in 2007. It's always been sort of one of those main drivers in life like, I wanna go to space someday. And, you know, still was into my thirties, but even I sort of gave up on the dream of becoming an astronaut once I could no longer pass an FAA medical exam. So just trying to figure out what else I can do for space nowadays. I was a member of the Students for the Exploration and Development of Space."
    },
    {
      "speaker": "Speaker 3",
      "startTime": "247.115",
      "endTime": "278.67502",
      "body": "It's a student organization, international, that, just has their hands in a lot of different space activities. I know I found out about the space generation advisory council through SEDS and I think I heard about the Mars Desert Research Station at one of their conferences. And so the prospect of, you know, doing a Mars mission, even though it was kind of fake, really interested me. And I managed to apply for a crew that was part of a NASA funded series of expeditions and I applied and got in."
    },
    {
      "speaker": "Speaker 1",
      "startTime": "280.34",
      "endTime": "284.66",
      "body": "From there, Ben was off to the Mars Desert Research Station in Utah."
    },
    {
      "speaker": "Speaker 3",
      "startTime": "286.82",
      "endTime": "324.48502",
      "body": "So as you're driving south from, I think it was... Maybe not Salt Lake City, but some other city in Utah, You're driving, you're sort of in the High Desert, there's lots of mountains and rocks, and then suddenly, you know, you make a a right on one of the main roads and you go off this curvy road and suddenly you're surrounded by these red hills, red sandy hills. And suddenly you think, oh my god, I'm on Mars. And as we're driving up, you eventually come out into a clearing where you see this big tin can in the middle of the desert and like that's gonna be my home for the next two weeks. There's some ATVs parked out front."
    },
    {
      "speaker": "Speaker 3",
      "startTime": "324.64502",
      "endTime": "354.61502",
      "body": "There's another little mound, but all the surrounding hills are just made of this red type of rock clay, that really feels very alien. It's one of the most alien terrains I've ever seen here on earth. I grew up in Northwest Florida near Fort Walton Beach. You know, I'd I'd seen mountains before. I've been, you know, I I went to Philmont Scout Ranch."
    },
    {
      "speaker": "Speaker 3",
      "startTime": "354.61502",
      "endTime": "392.16",
      "body": "So I've been to the New Mexico area where I've seen, you know, at least the terrain that looked like that, but not the colors, not the lack of vegetation. There was certainly an air of isolation about that place that makes you feel like you're really far from from nowhere. And that kinda helped with the mental vibe of, I'm here on a Mars base and no one's gonna come rescue us if something goes wrong. When we got there, we did the handover with the previous crew. So there were six of us, there were six of them."
    },
    {
      "speaker": "Speaker 3",
      "startTime": "392.16",
      "endTime": "412.315",
      "body": "We introduced ourselves. We sort of went, you know, room by room through the habitat. You know, there was... We had our commander, we had a couple scientists, I was the engineer. And so we each sort of worked with our respective partner from the previous crew to go over all the little systems, all the little quirks of things."
    },
    {
      "speaker": "Speaker 3",
      "startTime": "412.395",
      "endTime": "451.07",
      "body": "You know, it's... I can imagine what the International Space Station is like today after being up for so long and having so many people come in and out that I'm sure certain areas are just an absolute mess. Certain things are broken and fixed in the most, you know, jury rigged way, but that's how you gotta do it. So we spent that first day sort of going over, okay, here's how the toilet works, here's how the power system works, here's, you know, your bunks, here's, you know, part of the bioscience lab, here's where we cut and polish rocks, Here's the ATVs. You gotta learn how to ride an ATV."
    },
    {
      "speaker": "Speaker 3",
      "startTime": "451.47",
      "endTime": "468.665",
      "body": "Here's the suits. So that was sort of the first day was just understanding what was there, what our day to day was gonna be like. And so, you know, after that first day, we were basically under simulation. Can't go outside unless you got the space suit on. The big thing was the the time delay."
    },
    {
      "speaker": "Speaker 3",
      "startTime": "468.665",
      "endTime": "508.77",
      "body": "So we did have Internet access and we were in communication with a group of volunteers that were basically acting as mission control. But they were sort of self enforcing a ten minute or maybe it was a five minute, but some sort of time delay between when we sent them an email and when they opened that email. And so that was one way they could simulate the isolation to make sure that we sort of weren't cheating in a way. Or, you know, they knew an answer but they weren't gonna tell us until a few more minutes had gone by. So that not only allowed us to, you know, have to suffer through whatever was wrong for a little bit, but also gave us some time to try to figure it out for ourselves, if if something was wrong."
    },
    {
      "speaker": "Speaker 3",
      "startTime": "509.72998",
      "endTime": "537.86",
      "body": "So day to day, you know, you'd wake up. We stuck to a pretty typical earth schedule. Earth's twenty four hour day and Mars is twenty twenty four and a half hour day, but, you know, we still did the earth schedule. We get up, make breakfast as a crew, sort of talk about what we were gonna do that day, who was gonna go on an extra vehicular activity, who was gonna take the ATVs during what time. As the engineer, I would check on the fuel system."
    },
    {
      "speaker": "Speaker 3",
      "startTime": "537.86",
      "endTime": "557.805",
      "body": "There was a diesel generator, not too far away, that I had to check to make sure it was running properly. We did have, several different power issues. That particular generator had been acting up for a while. And I think we were... We did not have power for over a day at one point on my crew."
    },
    {
      "speaker": "Speaker 3",
      "startTime": "558.125",
      "endTime": "569.05",
      "body": "And I think they replaced that power generator right right after we left. So it was sort of, you know, I was the last engineer to deal with it, and good riddance."
    },
    {
      "speaker": "Speaker 1",
      "startTime": "570.97",
      "endTime": "586.255",
      "body": "What was the living space like? Was it cramped? Did you have, like, your own private quarters, or was that more similar to what? Because I guess this isn't necessarily trying to simulate a spacecraft, but more maybe like what a base on Mars would be like. Is that correct?"
    },
    {
      "speaker": "Speaker 3",
      "startTime": "586.655",
      "endTime": "598.87",
      "body": "Yes. So we each had our own bunk. It was pretty small. I'm trying to think of the size. I could certainly reach across and touch both walls, without fully stretching my arms out."
    },
    {
      "speaker": "Speaker 3",
      "startTime": "598.87",
      "endTime": "612.745",
      "body": "But there were six of us, six bunks and they were sort of staggered a little bit. So I had a top bunk. Someone was a... Their bunk was like halfway underneath mine. So, yeah, a little cramped but not not as bad as like an airplane."
    },
    {
      "speaker": "Speaker 3",
      "startTime": "612.825",
      "endTime": "630.14",
      "body": "It's not like we were... It's it's not like sleeping on an airplane. However, the entire room was cylindrical, since that's what... That's the shape that most pieces of a Mars base would be shaped like. So we were living in a cylinder, an upright cylinder basically, two stories."
    },
    {
      "speaker": "Speaker 3",
      "startTime": "630.62",
      "endTime": "636.62",
      "body": "The top floor was sort of the living space, the bottom floor was sort of the lab space and where the bathroom was."
    },
    {
      "speaker": "Speaker 1",
      "startTime": "638.995",
      "endTime": "641.235",
      "body": "And what kind of food were you eating?"
    },
    {
      "speaker": "Speaker 3",
      "startTime": "641.555",
      "endTime": "653.77",
      "body": "I know we had a lot of pasta. We did have the ability to boil water. We were sort of eating family style meals. Before we got to the base, we loaded up on a bunch of food. I think we had made some..."
    },
    {
      "speaker": "Speaker 3",
      "startTime": "653.93",
      "endTime": "676.975",
      "body": "You know, we planned some menus, talked about, okay, who's gonna be cooking what meals. So with six of us, we each, you know, sort of were in charge of two dinners for those two weeks, that sort of thing. Lunch was a little bit more on our own, maybe sandwiches. Breakfast was usually cereal. I don't remember if we made pancakes or anything like that, but some thought was in the menu, but I'd say the menu was not one of those variables that we were testing."
    },
    {
      "speaker": "Speaker 3",
      "startTime": "677.135",
      "endTime": "701.425",
      "body": "Other crews, I think there was like a vegetarian crew. There was a maybe a vegan crew or something. That wasn't what our crew was all about. We did a lot of geology type experiments and a couple different bio experiments. So we would go out in our bulky space suits, drive around, pick up rocks, note the location of where we found them, take them back, cut them up, take take a looks at them and stuff."
    },
    {
      "speaker": "Speaker 3",
      "startTime": "701.425",
      "endTime": "727.825",
      "body": "So our crew commander was a geologist, but we also had a a life scientist there with us too. In terms of food on Mars, yes, that's obviously... Logistics is obviously gonna be a huge factor whenever we're considering life beyond our planet. Getting supplies, to Mars is gonna be a problem. We want to use as much of in situ resources as possible."
    },
    {
      "speaker": "Speaker 3",
      "startTime": "728.385",
      "endTime": "748.6",
      "body": "We think there's a lot of water on Mars, you know, as water ice. You can bring that up, you can melt it, you can purify it somehow. Whether or not there's poison if you try to grow plants there, I think is gonna be dependent on a lot of factors. But if you want to do something, it might take a lot more energy than you need to do it on earth. Sort of like desalinization."
    },
    {
      "speaker": "Speaker 3",
      "startTime": "748.6",
      "endTime": "773.27",
      "body": "We can pull water from the salty ocean, but it takes a lot of work. We could probably grow potatoes from the Martian soil, but it's gonna take a lot of work to take whatever chemicals are in the soil that would prevent us from doing it safely right now. And so those are the things that we're not gonna know enough about, certainly not for the first mission, but we're gonna need to learn how to do that if we wanna have something that's sustainable."
    },
    {
      "speaker": "Speaker 1",
      "startTime": "773.27",
      "endTime": "787.135",
      "body": "So you said you were doing a whole lot of geology. So like what's what specifically were you hoping to glean from that mission that will one day be useful to NASA or, you know, whoever whoever it is that's sending people to Mars?"
    },
    {
      "speaker": "Speaker 3",
      "startTime": "787.615",
      "endTime": "808.345",
      "body": "So in my case, I was the engineer. I don't know that much about Mars rocks. I know a little bit about the chemistry but not so much, you know, crystal structures and that sort of things. My interest was more in the operations itself. You know, difficult is it to take those samples?"
    },
    {
      "speaker": "Speaker 3",
      "startTime": "808.425",
      "endTime": "845.665",
      "body": "What can we do to make it more realistic for these simulations? So for instance, you know, we're going out there in suits. These, you know, the way they had them, they were just bulky canvas suits that really don't simulate, what it's like to be in a true pressure suit. In a pressure suit, you know, it's like a giant balloon, but it's, you know, 14.7 psi, maybe one third of that if you're breathing pure oxygen. The way that your hands work inside of a space suit is very different than than what you would think about if you were just wearing a really thick glove."
    },
    {
      "speaker": "Speaker 3",
      "startTime": "845.665",
      "endTime": "888.75",
      "body": "You know, I've heard stories about astronauts losing their fingernails because they've been putting so much pressure on their fingers just to squeeze a tool when they're in outer space, because of just how the gas dynamics of that inflated suit work. So one of the things we did was we took a bunch of duct tape and wrapped around our fingers so that it made it harder to grip things, to operate the ATVs, to pick up samples and that sort of thing. So that was one of the things that we tried to make a little more realistic. And with each crew that comes through, we were on two week rotations. We tried to impart knowledge to say, hey, how can we make this more realistic to what people are gonna be doing when they're actually on a Mars base?"
    },
    {
      "speaker": "Speaker 3",
      "startTime": "888.91",
      "endTime": "919.5",
      "body": "And so whether it was route planning or even just how how you can more safely operate the ATVs when you're driving around, those were some of the things that I was more concerned with. So I'd say the worst thing that happened was, we had an extended power outage. We broke simulation, to try to fix it. So I basically went to the power generator outside of my suit to try to, you know, get it working. The..."
    },
    {
      "speaker": "Speaker 3",
      "startTime": "920.75494",
      "endTime": "946.37",
      "body": "For a while, I was left alone while the rest of the crew did more of an extended EVA since they didn't have anything else to do, but I couldn't fix the power. And so I was trying to wait for one of the local volunteers to come help me fix it. So that was, I'd say, kind of a lonely day. But otherwise, you know, the... I'd say out out of 11 or so real days, nine of them were pretty good."
    },
    {
      "speaker": "Speaker 3",
      "startTime": "947.165",
      "endTime": "971.49",
      "body": "We, you know, did our meals, we did our EBAs, and then those other two days, you know, there were technology problems that we had to work through and we still got through it. That's the nice thing about these simulations is if something goes wrong, you're not gonna die. There's only so many variables you can test when you're doing these analog missions. For MDRS, the psychological profile of that sort of danger is not one of them."
    },
    {
      "speaker": "Speaker 1",
      "startTime": "975.125",
      "endTime": "999.54",
      "body": "I want to talk a bit more about the Mars Desert Research Station or MDRS. It's a private research facility in Utah, not officially associated with NASA, but they do have some similar goals. It's run by the Mars Society, which was founded by a guy named Robert Zubrin in the late nineties to, as they describe it, advocate and educate the public on the benefits of exploring Mars."
    },
    {
      "speaker": "Speaker 3",
      "startTime": "1002.60504",
      "endTime": "1034.445",
      "body": "The Mars Society was a group of enthusiastic volunteers doing what they could to try to solve, you know, whatever problems they could that maybe NASA didn't have their eyes on right now. They were looking ahead to to try to help. Now, you know, what is the difference between what the Mars Society was doing and LARPers? That's that's a good question, because it's really fun to solve the problems that you know you're gonna need to solve. But, you know, my question is always gonna be, what else are we not thinking of?"
    },
    {
      "speaker": "Speaker 3",
      "startTime": "1034.445",
      "endTime": "1065.095",
      "body": "There's a lot of stuff that only NASA is gonna be able to figure out when it's ready to do so. And the Mars Society did a good job of identifying a lot of things that we needed to think about beforehand. But like with any group of volunteers, or even just, you know, passionate people, they're gonna have their biases on what they wanna do and what they wanna look at first. So we we were doing what we thought was the thing that needed to be done. Doesn't necessarily mean that it's the perfect way to do it."
    },
    {
      "speaker": "Speaker 3",
      "startTime": "1065.095",
      "endTime": "1091.6849",
      "body": "Doesn't necessarily mean that even after all it's said and done, that that's how it's gonna look. You know, it could be all for naught. A lot of the analog exploration we've done might might be things that eventually become mistakes. However, they were still learned, guess. There's the compendium of knowledge that we're building that even if we get a lot of things wrong, once we figure out something that's wrong, we can very quickly pivot to what is right because of all this other knowledge we have."
    },
    {
      "speaker": "Speaker 1",
      "startTime": "1092.485",
      "endTime": "1107.99",
      "body": "Yeah. And to me, there's just something to be said for just... For having an experience for its own sake. I mean, I'm not, you I'm know, a storyteller for a living. I'm not a scientist, so I've never believed that everything you do has to have some kind of utilitarian purpose."
    },
    {
      "speaker": "Speaker 1",
      "startTime": "1107.99",
      "endTime": "1123.985",
      "body": "I think sometimes there's just doing something for the sake of doing it because know, twenty years later, someone's interested in asking you about it as I am right now. So, I mean, I think, even on... It sounds like even on a personal level maybe, you you just had an experience that's that's worth having."
    },
    {
      "speaker": "Speaker 3",
      "startTime": "1124.385",
      "endTime": "1139.63",
      "body": "Absolutely. People are always going to try to detract from space exploration to say, you know, why do we need to do it? What's the port purpose? It's sort of the same argument with, you know, Mount Everest. Why climb it?"
    },
    {
      "speaker": "Speaker 3",
      "startTime": "1139.63",
      "endTime": "1147.115",
      "body": "Because it's there. Why do a stint at the Mars as a research station? Because it's there. It is an experience. It's a learning experience."
    },
    {
      "speaker": "Speaker 3",
      "startTime": "1147.115",
      "endTime": "1163.7699",
      "body": "I got something out of it. I hope that I contributed to something that will one day contribute to a human Mars mission. That's that's the hope. And a lot of what we do lives off hope and off those experiences. So that's that's what we gotta do."
    },
    {
      "speaker": "Speaker 1",
      "startTime": "1170.005",
      "endTime": "1182.405",
      "body": "Analog missions like the one Ben was on have for a long time played some kind of role in space research. Probably one of the better known missions was something called Biosphere two in the Arizona Desert."
    },
    {
      "speaker": "Speaker 5",
      "startTime": "1183.99",
      "endTime": "1206.975",
      "body": "In biosphere two, the planet Earth is biosphere one. Life on Earth will be replicated. This building will be home for eight biospherians who will live and work here over the next two years. The group, four men and four women, will conduct scientific experiments and will be totally dependent on their environment for their survival. They will live their lives with special breeds of goats, chickens, and fish."
    },
    {
      "speaker": "Speaker 5",
      "startTime": "1206.975",
      "endTime": "1207.215",
      "body": "They..."
    },
    {
      "speaker": "Speaker 1",
      "startTime": "1207.215",
      "endTime": "1220.69",
      "body": "I found this archived news story from Arizona Public Media's YouTube channel. This 1989 piece reported by Ernest Gurley aired two years before the experiment began and if only he'd known how things would actually pan out."
    },
    {
      "speaker": "Speaker 5",
      "startTime": "1220.85",
      "endTime": "1232.9049",
      "body": "Much of the work on Biosphere two will be complete later this year, but the knowledge that scientists will have gleaned during its lifespan will be helpful for untold generations, a quantum leap in scientific knowledge."
    },
    {
      "speaker": "Speaker 1",
      "startTime": "1233.065",
      "endTime": "1253.4249",
      "body": "But to put it mildly, it didn't go so well. They had problems from the get go with oxygen levels, they struggled to get enough calories and protein into their diets and they all went a little stir crazy and the crew eventually split up into rival factions. I spoke with Scott Solomon, a professor at Rice University about it."
    },
    {
      "speaker": "Speaker 6",
      "startTime": "1253.985",
      "endTime": "1273.1399",
      "body": "Depending on your perspective, you could call it either a success or a failure. I mean, they they set out to be inside of this enclosure, sealed inside, hermetically sealed inside for two years, and they did that. They came out two years later, you know? So so in some ways, could say, well, that... I guess it was a success."
    },
    {
      "speaker": "Speaker 6",
      "startTime": "1273.3",
      "endTime": "1302.82",
      "body": "But it didn't go well in a lot of ways. And so, you know, from some perspectives, it it kind of illustrates, as you said, how how challenging it is to be in an enclosed environment with a small number of individuals for such a large amount of time. And this was a relatively spacious environment compared to... If you think about, you know, people on any spacecraft that we're familiar with. This is a facility that had indoor rainforests and an ocean and agricultural areas."
    },
    {
      "speaker": "Speaker 6",
      "startTime": "1302.9",
      "endTime": "1340.765",
      "body": "Each crew member had their own private suite. So, you know, they had space, and yet of the eight individuals that formed the the crew, they split into these two factions of four that were so hostile towards one another that there's stories of them like spitting on each other's faces, you know, not being able to be in the same room together, having to have meals at different times because they couldn't talk with one another. I mean, it really it really got nasty, apparently. And so, you know, obviously, that's not what anybody would want to see in a settlement on Mars or or anywhere."
    },
    {
      "speaker": "Speaker 1",
      "startTime": "1352.65",
      "endTime": "1363.9349",
      "body": "While Biosphere two had the backing of a mega donor billionaire and a research institution, some analog missions cost almost nothing and have the backing of just one curious and determined person."
    },
    {
      "speaker": "Speaker 2",
      "startTime": "1367.215",
      "endTime": "1398.0651",
      "body": "Yeah. So I'm Jasper Awal and I... My analog experience all started back in 2020, which is actually the first time I even discovered what space analogs were. And back then, the pandemic had just started, and so I wasn't able to actually travel to do an analog. So I ended up doing my own analog in my parents' back garden, where I built this geodesic dome and lived in that for a week and kinda conducted my own little small research experiments."
    },
    {
      "speaker": "Speaker 2",
      "startTime": "1398.78",
      "endTime": "1430.35",
      "body": "And that was kind of my first dipping a toe into what space analogs are all about. And then subsequently after that, when the pandemic started to ease up and things started to open, I was able to do a few missions. So the first one was at MDRS in Utah, which was a fantastic experience. It's a incredible landscape there, really very much analogous to to Mars. And then after that, Lunaris, and then another mission at Astroland, which is very cool as well."
    },
    {
      "speaker": "Speaker 2",
      "startTime": "1430.35",
      "endTime": "1468.06",
      "body": "And then each of those was very different, I have to say. Every single habitat I've been to is very unique and very different experience. I guess the earliest memory I have, and I think the one that really I can point to is sort of like a real key point where it sent me down this road was going to visit the NASA Kennedy Space Center when I was nine years old. And I just remember walking in and seeing this person dressed up as an astronaut with this really cool helmet and outfit and this gold visor. You couldn't see his face and just the whole thing and and going around Kennedy Space Center."
    },
    {
      "speaker": "Speaker 2",
      "startTime": "1468.06",
      "endTime": "1501.5349",
      "body": "I just fell in love with space at that point. And ever since then, I haven't really fallen out of love with space. And so... To the point where, you know, I actually studied astrophysics at university because I've always enjoyed learning how things work and then being able to kind of not only just study physics, but have it directly applicable to understanding how space works, if you like, was fantastic. And then here in The UK, we have a small space industry, not a very big one."
    },
    {
      "speaker": "Speaker 2",
      "startTime": "1502.095",
      "endTime": "1546.02",
      "body": "So I wasn't really working in the space industry at all, and it wasn't something that I really kind of felt was necessarily accessible either. We have mainly the kind of work we do in The UK is sort of to do with satellites and I've always been more interested in space exploration, human space exploration, and human spaceflight. So I wasn't expecting to go into the space industry professionally, but after discovering, you know, ways of being able to contribute just as a non space industry person with Analogs, that seemed like the perfect opportunity to kind of, you know, make your little contribution in a small way."
    },
    {
      "speaker": "Speaker 1",
      "startTime": "1546.675",
      "endTime": "1574.65",
      "body": "What did you know about Analogs before you took on your own mission? Because I think the one that maybe people are most aware of, especially me not really being, you know, in the the biz, in the industry, so to speak, just being more of an observer, is that biosphere two that was dramatic. I won't say it was a failure, but it was certainly dramatic. So I'm curious, what did you know about Analog Missions?"
    },
    {
      "speaker": "Speaker 2",
      "startTime": "1575.505",
      "endTime": "1585.985",
      "body": "I knew almost nothing. I didn't even know they existed. So I actually came across them, like I said, in 2020. I was... It was just completely by accident."
    },
    {
      "speaker": "Speaker 2",
      "startTime": "1585.985",
      "endTime": "1610.235",
      "body": "I was on the Internet. We, you know, we had all had a bit more time on our hands with the pandemic, and I discovered Cyan Proctor, doctor Cyan Proctor's Space Snacks, little web series that she did on... I think it was used to be on Facebook. And she had people on and she'd interview them. And one of the things one of the people there or one of the things they talked about was these analogs."
    },
    {
      "speaker": "Speaker 2",
      "startTime": "1610.235",
      "endTime": "1627.44",
      "body": "And that was the first I'd actually heard of them. I thought to myself, what? Like, this sounds incredible. Is almost like a little dream come true. And so they were just discussing the various missions, and I actually think they were discussing High Seas mission because Cyan had done a month long mission at High Seas."
    },
    {
      "speaker": "Speaker 2",
      "startTime": "1627.935",
      "endTime": "1660.345",
      "body": "And it just sounded amazing. And then from that, I discovered Habitat Marte in Brazil because they were doing a little virtual mission during the pandemic. So I joined their little virtual mission, which was obviously not like a real analog mission, but it was just a kind of a feel for getting an idea of, like, what habitats are all about, what analog habitats are all about. One of the things we had to do was kind of if we were... We had to imagine like if we were gonna be going to Mars, what would we..."
    },
    {
      "speaker": "Speaker 2",
      "startTime": "1660.345",
      "endTime": "1680.2399",
      "body": "How would we design our Martian habitat? So it got you thinking about those sort of things. And so that was really my first entry point into it. And then it was really through conversations with Sian, getting to know Sian better, and learning from her because she had been doing analogs for many, many years at that point. So I learned a lot from her."
    },
    {
      "speaker": "Speaker 2",
      "startTime": "1680.4",
      "endTime": "1709.5449",
      "body": "And then when I told both her and actually, well about my mission that I was gonna do myself, my little solo mission here at home, they both acted as like advisers for my mission. And so I learned a lot from conversations with them as well. And then that just kind of grew, I guess, snowballed from there. I almost can't remember exactly how it all started. Started."
    },
    {
      "speaker": "Speaker 2",
      "startTime": "1709.545",
      "endTime": "1730.91",
      "body": "I just... I I think I just remember that I wanted to do a mission. And I obviously couldn't go abroad to do one because we were locked down. So I was trying to think of I think it just came to me as an idea of, like, well, if I can't go to the mission, maybe the mission can come to me. What's the minimal sort of thing that I could do?"
    },
    {
      "speaker": "Speaker 2",
      "startTime": "1731.39",
      "endTime": "1758.41",
      "body": "It's obviously not gonna be a high fidelity mission, but does it still hold some value? I think it... I don't remember the exact moment. It just kind of snowballed from there, and I I was looking... It was just fun to also just think of ideas of how could I create a habitat in my home, you know, bouncing ideas around like, well, should I just maybe enclose myself in a room or should I turn the garage into a habitat?"
    },
    {
      "speaker": "Speaker 2",
      "startTime": "1758.41",
      "endTime": "1779.575",
      "body": "But then... And I don't remember how I came across it, but, like, there was the Buckmeister Fuller design, the geodesic dome design, and I thought that would be very cool. Very simple design to build. It's not a difficult structure and it can be done very easily. And I actually came up with the idea of wanting to do it modularly."
    },
    {
      "speaker": "Speaker 2",
      "startTime": "1779.575",
      "endTime": "1818.9",
      "body": "So what I was thinking was at the time is if I could build this geodesic dome and have it something that was portable and you could take it apart and move it... Travel with it and move it around, this would be a really great way of bringing this concept to kids and as opposed to talking to them about these kind of experiences, actually getting them to maybe help you build the dome, have the experience inside, and you know, sort of get them excited about Analog and Space Exploration. So that... I remember that part of it and actually did a little bit of outreach during my mission as well with kids. I don't remember what I told my friends."
    },
    {
      "speaker": "Speaker 2",
      "startTime": "1819.775",
      "endTime": "1839.4501",
      "body": "I actually managed to rope my parents into helping me with the building, and I remember my dad didn't really understand what I was up to. Mom seemed to have a much better idea of what was going on, but they were so willing to help. It was a nice little project. And during the pandemic, I think a lot of us were all looking for things to do. So people kind of embraced the idea."
    },
    {
      "speaker": "Speaker 2",
      "startTime": "1839.4501",
      "endTime": "1867.0599",
      "body": "And I think most people thought it was cool. I remember a local newspaper as well doing a little article about it and I just remember getting a lot of positive reactions to this idea and people just thinking this is a very cool idea. And I did a little outreach thing during the mission with Janet's planet with these kids and one of the feedbacks I got from the kid... One of the children was that this was the best session she'd ever been to. And to be honest, that that really touched my heart that this was..."
    },
    {
      "speaker": "Speaker 2",
      "startTime": "1867.5399",
      "endTime": "1907.905",
      "body": "For that alone, it almost seemed worth it. So I had some pretty hard constraints and there's some things that are a bit more flexible. So, for example, with the communication, I had a very hard constraint of zero comms with anybody apart from I opened that up when it came to outreach side of things. So I did a little... My own little sort of series called Analog Space Stories where I interviewed people and that had to be live, so that was done over Zoom, and the same with the outreach with the kids."
    },
    {
      "speaker": "Speaker 2",
      "startTime": "1907.985",
      "endTime": "1949.6901",
      "body": "So there was... I was attempting to make it as realistic, shall we say, in inverted commas as possible, but there's only so far you can also go in your back garden with this kind of this kind of habitat. But I guess the way to summarize it was to try and capture the spirit of the mission without compromising on some of the goals, like outreach being one of the goals. And that's where, I guess, when I was planning it, I had to consider, well, what do I actually wanna get out of this mission? I know that I wanted to do at least, you know, at least one useful piece of research, perhaps, let's say."
    },
    {
      "speaker": "Speaker 2",
      "startTime": "1949.6901",
      "endTime": "1962.675",
      "body": "I wanted to build something. So I wanted to do something that was like... There was a limit on what I could do research wise as well, of course. So what do you have? You have one human subject, so you can do maybe a little bit of research on a a human subject myself."
    },
    {
      "speaker": "Speaker 2",
      "startTime": "1963.155",
      "endTime": "2000.6799",
      "body": "And the other thing you could do that I was thinking would be doable is something like that in a small... Relatively small space was maybe building a little mini rover. So those were the kind of two things I chose. I also didn't have space to build like an airlock system. So what I would do in that instance was just like a kind of again, just a nod or a gesture towards real mission, which would be I'm gonna stand by the airlock or the door for a certain given amount of time to simulate an airlock situation, then exit the habitat, make sure I was wearing a helmet and I had like a jumpsuit."
    },
    {
      "speaker": "Speaker 2",
      "startTime": "2000.6799",
      "endTime": "2015.2151",
      "body": "But again, just again to sort of... It's going through the motions of... Okay. I don't have like a... Even a low fidelity space suit, but I am going through the motions of getting dressed into my external EVA suit, putting a helmet on."
    },
    {
      "speaker": "Speaker 2",
      "startTime": "2015.2151",
      "endTime": "2051.705",
      "body": "I had a motorcycle helmet that I wore and using that. And I was actually... Even with those limited constraints, it was quite staggering to me how much of an impact it was living in this dome without any windows. So being really kind of cut off from the outside because I did an EVA on my third day and when I went outside with this helmet and this suit on, I I just remember seeing the sky and thinking, God, I really miss seeing the outdoors and the outside even in those three days. And you wouldn't think you'd feel that isolated, you're just in your back garden."
    },
    {
      "speaker": "Speaker 2",
      "startTime": "2051.705",
      "endTime": "2087.44",
      "body": "But I felt so much more isolated just being in that dome in the garden than I would have if I was isolating, say in the house somewhere. So those light little things, they kind of do have a mental impact on the mission. And then building the light rover, and I also like made sure that my days were scheduled. So, you know, waking up at a certain time, then doing these certain tasks at various points in the day, making sure there was time for things that you might expect of astronauts on a real mission, like there would be a time where they have to work out, look after the health. There would be a time where they'd have to make sure the habitat was maintained."
    },
    {
      "speaker": "Speaker 2",
      "startTime": "2087.92",
      "endTime": "2122.155",
      "body": "Time for research, time for communications, all of those things. So I kind of tried to adhere to that sort of a system. Subsequently after that, when the pandemic started to ease up and things started to open, I was able to do a few missions. So the first one was at MDRS in Utah, which was a fantastic experience. It's a incredible landscape there, really very much analogous to to Mars."
    },
    {
      "speaker": "Speaker 2",
      "startTime": "2122.555",
      "endTime": "2152.415",
      "body": "And then after that, Lunaris, and then another mission at Astroland, which is very cool as well. And then each of those was very different, I have to say. Every single habitat I've been to is a very unique and very different experience. And then, of course, after that, I I started the world's biggest analog as well. Well, actually, not after that, but in conjunction with starting the Analog Astronaut Foundation and the Analog Astronaut community in conference with Cyan Proctor."
    },
    {
      "speaker": "Speaker 2",
      "startTime": "2152.655",
      "endTime": "2159.295",
      "body": "I also came up with the idea of the world's biggest analog and then launched that project as well."
    },
    {
      "speaker": "Speaker 1",
      "startTime": "2160.5498",
      "endTime": "2184.085",
      "body": "She keeps mentioning someone named Cyan. She's referring to doctor Cyan Proctor. Cyan is an accomplished professor, commercial astronaut pilot, scientist, and now an Afro futurist artist. One of her big claims to fame was becoming the first black woman to pilot a spacecraft. She's also one of the best known Analog Astronauts in the whole world having done at least four missions that I could find."
    },
    {
      "speaker": "Speaker 1",
      "startTime": "2184.98",
      "endTime": "2189.94",
      "body": "So for her to take notice of Jazz and wanna work with her, that counts for something."
    },
    {
      "speaker": "Speaker 2",
      "startTime": "2192.42",
      "endTime": "2206.4253",
      "body": "I just remember thinking to myself that there's so much really like interesting work going on that nobody knows about. I had never heard of Analogs. There's people out there that haven't heard of Analogs. There's even people working at NASA who haven't heard of Analogs. NASA do their own Analogs."
    },
    {
      "speaker": "Speaker 2",
      "startTime": "2206.8252",
      "endTime": "2225.97",
      "body": "So, you know, I wanted to do something really big. I already knew going into the first in person conference that I wanted us to do something big that would get a little bit of attention. So during that in person conference, I had like a... Just like a breakout session. Really informal one."
    },
    {
      "speaker": "Speaker 2",
      "startTime": "2225.97",
      "endTime": "2250.75",
      "body": "Where I asked the audience, what... If you could do anything, no constraints, what kind of Analog mission would you wanna do? So they kinda broke up into little teams and things, they came up with some ideas and they shared some of their ideas. And then I remember after the conference, I was reading some of the notes from that session. And I kind of saw like..."
    },
    {
      "speaker": "Speaker 2",
      "startTime": "2250.75",
      "endTime": "2279.78",
      "body": "I don't remember exactly how it came to me, but I saw this like idea, this common thread, which was like doing a networked analog mission. And that's kind of... And then I... From that, I had the idea that hang on, that is gonna be simulating what should or may be happening in the next, I don't know, ten years or so. Where we're going to have a permanent human presence on the moon or in future beyond that even on Mars."
    },
    {
      "speaker": "Speaker 2",
      "startTime": "2279.94",
      "endTime": "2312.935",
      "body": "So what we're doing now is we're taking these network analogs and what we're actually simulating is a permanent offer settlement. Which the settlement will be made up of lots of different countries and then they'll be private, they might be government, you know, there'll be lots of different players involved. So just like all these different analogues around the world who are all completely independent. So that's where the idea of the world's biggest analogue came from. And each of these habitats kind of maintains its independence and sovereignty."
    },
    {
      "speaker": "Speaker 2",
      "startTime": "2313.2551",
      "endTime": "2334.52",
      "body": "But we all come together and work for the common good. And I love to use the analogy of like Antarctica where you have these different nations with their bases in Antarctica. But because of the extreme environment, they also help each other and they work together. And so it was very much a... Let's do this as one big community, a collaborative mission."
    },
    {
      "speaker": "Speaker 2",
      "startTime": "2335.0",
      "endTime": "2358.32",
      "body": "And what a unique environment to test research on as well. Because now, you have the largest and most diverse analog sample size of analog astronauts ever in any mission ever done before. So that's where that idea came from. We had like four different continents. We had some..."
    },
    {
      "speaker": "Speaker 2",
      "startTime": "2358.32",
      "endTime": "2371.7751",
      "body": "Was it 15 or 16 different habitats participating around the world. From like North America, Europe, Africa, Australia. So yeah. We had... It was very very good diversity."
    },
    {
      "speaker": "Speaker 2",
      "startTime": "2371.7751",
      "endTime": "2386.7002",
      "body": "We had Middle East, India. A really good diverse group of people. And diverse experience as well. Some of the habitats that I've mentioned like MDRS, Lunaris, Astronauts, they have been doing this for many many years. So they have like, you know, years of experience behind them."
    },
    {
      "speaker": "Speaker 2",
      "startTime": "2387.02",
      "endTime": "2409.925",
      "body": "But we have... And this was for me, this was one of the key points. So the heart of this mission, the world's biggest analog was to do collaborative research. That was absolutely key. The other thing though was one of the things I really wanted to do was get these newer habitats, the ones that hadn't maybe even done a single mission before."
    },
    {
      "speaker": "Speaker 2",
      "startTime": "2410.42",
      "endTime": "2433.2751",
      "body": "Is almost like support them in a way. You know, this was a a good way for them to leverage what they're doing in their countries as well. It was to say, you know, we're participating in this global mission. And so I really wanted this to be... It was really important to me that this involved countries that you might not normally think about when you think about space exploration."
    },
    {
      "speaker": "Speaker 2",
      "startTime": "2433.435",
      "endTime": "2448.3599",
      "body": "So like we had Kenya, you know? Where you don't always think about space when you think about Kenya or Jordan, right? How often do people think space exploration? Jordan has a space program. They don't normally associate these these nations with space."
    },
    {
      "speaker": "Speaker 2",
      "startTime": "2448.3599",
      "endTime": "2460.855",
      "body": "And so I really wanted... That was a very important part of this. So we called them the independent hubs. And that... Honestly, that was a real joy to be able to have them participate in in the world's biggest analog."
    },
    {
      "speaker": "Speaker 2",
      "startTime": "2460.855",
      "endTime": "2477.6199",
      "body": "And I really think that their participation is truly what made it global as opposed to some of the more established habitats which are often again located in Europe or North America which we already associate with, you know, NASA and space exploration or ESA and space exploration."
    },
    {
      "speaker": "Speaker 1",
      "startTime": "2478.02",
      "endTime": "2495.535",
      "body": "Most people who take part in analog missions probably won't ever go to space. But in a way, these missions bring space to them making something that would usually seem abstract and impossible at least a little bit more relatable. And, they're playing a big role in something really important."
    },
    {
      "speaker": "Speaker 2",
      "startTime": "2496.1702",
      "endTime": "2524.1401",
      "body": "Yeah. And I... And this is, I guess, more of a personal thing to me, is I I have this... Maybe it's a naive optimism that space is for everybody and, you know, not wanting these country borders to get in the way of expanding humanity in space. It should be accessible to everybody and not just the richer people, the richer countries."
    },
    {
      "speaker": "Speaker 2",
      "startTime": "2524.1401",
      "endTime": "2565.4849",
      "body": "So it really very much was a very important part of it. And the same with, you know, when I talk about the independent haves, the story of just like showing young people, kids like... For me growing up in The UK, I think I mentioned this at the start, it was very much like, you know, NASA does space or ESA does space. Your chance of being in the space industry or working in the space industry with human space exploration is pretty slim. And I'm sure there are kids that feel that way in India or Kenya or Jordan or God knows where else in the world."
    },
    {
      "speaker": "Speaker 2",
      "startTime": "2565.4849",
      "endTime": "2596.925",
      "body": "And so it was kind of a way of saying, yeah, but actually you can contribute because you could do research on an analog and look, you've got an analog in your country and you can do this. And in fact, you could build your own analog habitat and you can do things independently without going through these great government agencies where there's gatekeepers and gatekeepers after one another. And so yeah, it's just kind of bringing opportunity to people who might not otherwise think they even have that opportunity."
    },
    {
      "speaker": "Speaker 1",
      "startTime": "2598.525",
      "endTime": "2602.845",
      "body": "And as Ben likes to put it, these Analog Astronauts are more than just LARPers."
    },
    {
      "speaker": "Speaker 3",
      "startTime": "2603.6902",
      "endTime": "2632.0452",
      "body": "The way we saw it was we were adding to a compendium of knowledge that will one day help us go beyond planet Earth. And that was the main motivating goal. Because of that, you know, there's there's a lot of things that we need to do and figure out before we send people to Mars. Not all of them are gonna get figured out through Analog exploration. Not all of them are gonna get figured out by the people who are gonna be doing those designs in the first place."
    },
    {
      "speaker": "Speaker 3",
      "startTime": "2632.6702",
      "endTime": "2646.6702",
      "body": "But we just hope that everything that we are doing gets recorded, gets into some knowledge database that goes into these designs that we're gonna have that are gonna make those habitats sustainable and not get anyone killed."
    },
    {
      "speaker": "Speaker 1",
      "startTime": "2647.905",
      "endTime": "2677.6602",
      "body": "And that seems like a reasonable and noble goal. Crew Collective is presented by Rocket Genius. Our executive producers are Carl Hancock, Matt Maduros, and Travis Tots. Learn more at rocketgenius.com, and you can find all of our episodes at crewcollectivepodcast.com or anywhere else you get podcasts. Original music for this series is written and recorded by Doug Hoyer."
    },
    {
      "speaker": "Speaker 1",
      "startTime": "2677.985",
      "endTime": "2695.3801",
      "body": "Find more of his tunes at doughoyer.com and be sure to support him on Bandcamp. Additional music for this episode comes from Blue Dot Sessions. This episode was written, produced, researched, narrated, and edited by me. I'm Stuart Barefoot. Learn more about my work at stuartproduces.com."
    },
    {
      "speaker": "Speaker 1",
      "startTime": "2696.74",
      "endTime": "2701.86",
      "body": "And that's it for this episode, but be sure to stay tuned to this space because we've got more stories to follow."
    }
  ]
}