1 00:00:00,166 --> 00:00:02,533 create a better connection between the brand and the customer. 2 00:00:02,533 --> 00:00:07,533 So I think we're looking at different ways to incorporate it where we can see value 3 00:00:08,233 --> 00:00:12,300 and it can, and not just for the for the brand, but for the customer as well. 4 00:00:12,300 --> 00:00:16,766 So I think we're not just looking at AI like a blanket like replacement. 5 00:00:16,766 --> 00:00:19,766 It's like, where can it really, you know, solve a problem. 6 00:00:19,766 --> 00:00:21,700 If you believe we can change the narrative. 7 00:00:21,700 --> 00:00:23,900 If you believe, we can change our communities. 8 00:00:23,900 --> 00:00:27,266 If you believe we can change the outcomes, then we can change the world. 9 00:00:28,000 --> 00:00:29,566 I'm Rob Richardson. 10 00:00:29,566 --> 00:00:32,200 Welcome One. 11 00:00:32,200 --> 00:00:33,166 Welcome to disruption. 12 00:00:33,166 --> 00:00:35,333 Now I'm your host and moderator, Rob Richardson. 13 00:00:35,333 --> 00:00:38,333 As always, it's great to be joined here at 1819. 14 00:00:38,466 --> 00:00:41,466 if you're if you're watching this, please like please comment. 15 00:00:41,566 --> 00:00:42,966 That's how we get our message out. 16 00:00:42,966 --> 00:00:45,466 More about all the disruption and all the creators 17 00:00:45,466 --> 00:00:47,666 and all the brilliant minds we have on here 18 00:00:47,666 --> 00:00:50,033 that are disrupting common narratives and constructs. 19 00:00:50,033 --> 00:00:51,933 With me is Adam Khan. 20 00:00:51,933 --> 00:00:54,933 He is the chief creative officer for Great Midwest. 21 00:00:55,333 --> 00:00:56,466 We're going to have a discussion. 22 00:00:56,466 --> 00:00:59,433 Do you see AI for creativity as a threat? 23 00:00:59,433 --> 00:01:01,933 Is an opportunity? Is it both? I don't know. 24 00:01:01,933 --> 00:01:03,433 These are like the discussions people are having. 25 00:01:03,433 --> 00:01:06,566 Like what do we do with this massive technology? 26 00:01:06,833 --> 00:01:09,000 How do we view it especially as a creator? 27 00:01:09,000 --> 00:01:10,266 Adam, good to have you on another. 28 00:01:10,266 --> 00:01:12,533 Very, very, very happy to be here. 29 00:01:12,533 --> 00:01:13,666 So thank you for having me. 30 00:01:13,666 --> 00:01:14,033 Yeah. 31 00:01:14,033 --> 00:01:16,533 So I know you, Adam, are creative at heart. 32 00:01:16,533 --> 00:01:17,066 Like, we've, 33 00:01:18,066 --> 00:01:20,933 you've used creative and, 34 00:01:20,933 --> 00:01:22,200 and and combine technology. 35 00:01:22,200 --> 00:01:25,233 You did that with Web3. With, NFTs. 36 00:01:25,433 --> 00:01:25,800 Right? 37 00:01:25,800 --> 00:01:26,066 And you. 38 00:01:26,066 --> 00:01:29,900 And you've helped, like, use your creative, mind to, 39 00:01:29,933 --> 00:01:31,400 to really merge technology. 40 00:01:31,400 --> 00:01:35,166 and I think NFTs are still a thing, but they're 41 00:01:35,500 --> 00:01:39,433 but in comparison to scale, AI is just a whole nother level. 42 00:01:39,566 --> 00:01:42,633 in terms of, like, what's happening with the creator economy. 43 00:01:43,100 --> 00:01:46,200 I just love to get your thoughts about what do you see 44 00:01:46,866 --> 00:01:50,566 as the future of creatives 45 00:01:50,700 --> 00:01:53,700 and what role does I play with that? 46 00:01:56,733 --> 00:02:01,433 at everything, I think, you know, I've been 47 00:02:01,766 --> 00:02:05,033 I've been in this advertising industry for 18 years. 48 00:02:05,466 --> 00:02:09,400 And, you know, when I got in, it really was about 49 00:02:09,400 --> 00:02:13,133 a few key principles to making great work. Yes. 50 00:02:13,133 --> 00:02:18,266 And and you had some tools, that you, you had access to. 51 00:02:18,300 --> 00:02:19,300 It was, it was limiting. 52 00:02:20,433 --> 00:02:21,833 But now, 53 00:02:21,833 --> 00:02:24,366 today with AI 54 00:02:24,366 --> 00:02:27,800 and all the innovation that's been happening over the past, you know, 55 00:02:28,366 --> 00:02:31,533 you know, 510 years, it has just changed 56 00:02:31,533 --> 00:02:34,733 everything about how we think about creation in general. 57 00:02:35,133 --> 00:02:35,433 Right. 58 00:02:35,433 --> 00:02:40,200 So, you know, in, in the ad worlds, you know, 59 00:02:40,200 --> 00:02:43,266 you come up with an idea for a brand and then you'd have to hire 60 00:02:43,266 --> 00:02:46,100 all these other people to help execute your vision. 61 00:02:46,100 --> 00:02:46,433 Right. 62 00:02:46,433 --> 00:02:49,466 But today, I really don't need them right 63 00:02:50,100 --> 00:02:53,233 to the same capacity as I do, because I have AI. 64 00:02:53,333 --> 00:02:53,700 Right? 65 00:02:53,700 --> 00:02:57,800 And I think it's going to, be impossible 66 00:02:57,933 --> 00:03:00,933 to move forward without incorporating it into your skill set. 67 00:03:02,266 --> 00:03:05,766 because it, it, it gives you the ability to move 68 00:03:05,766 --> 00:03:08,900 at a speed in which you never would have imagined. 69 00:03:08,900 --> 00:03:13,966 And, I don't want to ever cut out those that helped in the past 70 00:03:13,966 --> 00:03:18,366 or help build things, but, it really is going to become a massive 71 00:03:18,733 --> 00:03:23,033 skill set that everyone has to learn to, to continue pursuing creativity. 72 00:03:23,200 --> 00:03:28,133 But I imagine, businesses are going to have expectations as they 73 00:03:28,166 --> 00:03:31,166 there's always been there's already been, you know, this pressure to, 74 00:03:31,366 --> 00:03:33,933 on, on your clients to bring down costs. 75 00:03:33,933 --> 00:03:37,333 I don't know what your how are your clients talking about AI? 76 00:03:37,366 --> 00:03:39,833 Do they do they assume like, okay, used to be able to do this for less 77 00:03:39,833 --> 00:03:42,833 because I hear now do they make that assumption? 78 00:03:42,900 --> 00:03:45,900 If so, how do you navigate something like that? 79 00:03:46,033 --> 00:03:47,966 okay. So it's a very recent topic. 80 00:03:47,966 --> 00:03:53,166 I'd say over the past, 16 months, I've been meeting with, 81 00:03:53,600 --> 00:03:56,300 with most of the clients talking about AI because I think 82 00:03:57,766 --> 00:03:58,333 AI is 83 00:03:58,333 --> 00:04:02,300 like can be seen in so many different facets, right? 84 00:04:02,333 --> 00:04:02,633 Right. 85 00:04:02,633 --> 00:04:05,633 You know, I think we typically think of AI as like ChatGPT 86 00:04:05,766 --> 00:04:09,300 or you got the Midjourney for visuals, but then there's like AI 87 00:04:09,333 --> 00:04:12,900 from a productivity standpoint and an efficiency standpoint that 88 00:04:13,766 --> 00:04:15,533 most people aren't even thinking about. 89 00:04:15,533 --> 00:04:18,533 So I think when we've approached them, 90 00:04:18,866 --> 00:04:21,733 we try and communicate as best as possible. 91 00:04:21,733 --> 00:04:27,566 One the creative opportunities that it can unleash and unlock and make for you. 92 00:04:27,833 --> 00:04:31,433 But then also some of the side effects, I'd say for using. 93 00:04:31,633 --> 00:04:31,933 Yeah. 94 00:04:31,933 --> 00:04:36,366 I you know, that to some extent we still don't know where some assets 95 00:04:36,366 --> 00:04:37,200 come from. 96 00:04:37,200 --> 00:04:40,600 Yes, we want to partner with those that license, etc.. 97 00:04:40,966 --> 00:04:45,466 so you kind of balance the risk and reward. 98 00:04:45,966 --> 00:04:49,333 I haven't seen too many clients I want to totally move over to. 99 00:04:49,366 --> 00:04:53,866 I think they're exploring the possibility of what it can do 100 00:04:54,966 --> 00:04:56,033 and how we would use 101 00:04:56,033 --> 00:04:59,033 it to, either attract talent, 102 00:04:59,033 --> 00:05:02,233 new customers or more revenue. 103 00:05:02,666 --> 00:05:05,633 you know, some examples could be, 104 00:05:05,633 --> 00:05:09,466 we are very used to going to like a delta.com 105 00:05:09,800 --> 00:05:13,566 and instead of waiting six minutes for a callback, we can text. 106 00:05:14,033 --> 00:05:19,433 But what if you, that chat bot, relationship was actually a 3D avatar 107 00:05:19,433 --> 00:05:22,900 that was built on AI who could actually talk to you 108 00:05:22,900 --> 00:05:27,766 about your needs of, you know, upcoming travel, visually. 109 00:05:28,033 --> 00:05:28,233 Right. 110 00:05:28,233 --> 00:05:31,233 So, you know, there's AI platforms that are turning, 111 00:05:31,566 --> 00:05:34,566 you know, the old antiquated chat bots into people. 112 00:05:34,733 --> 00:05:35,900 Exactly. To make a more human. 113 00:05:35,900 --> 00:05:39,166 I think, you know, for maybe that brand that actually 114 00:05:39,166 --> 00:05:42,233 might create a better connection between the brand and the customer. 115 00:05:42,233 --> 00:05:47,233 So I think we're looking at different ways to incorporate it where we can see value 116 00:05:47,933 --> 00:05:52,000 and it can, and not just for the for the brand, but for the customer as well. 117 00:05:52,000 --> 00:05:56,466 So I think we're not just looking at AI like a blanket like replacement. 118 00:05:56,466 --> 00:05:59,100 It's like, where can it really, you know, solve a problem. 119 00:05:59,100 --> 00:06:00,433 So you are creative naturally. 120 00:06:00,433 --> 00:06:03,566 And we talked we had this conversation offline about 121 00:06:03,566 --> 00:06:07,233 like how both of us because, I consider myself a creative in some ways. 122 00:06:07,233 --> 00:06:08,500 And I have ADHD. 123 00:06:08,500 --> 00:06:09,966 I have a million things on my mind. 124 00:06:09,966 --> 00:06:14,666 And, you know, I have found it useful to, to actually use, 125 00:06:15,100 --> 00:06:18,533 ChatGPT and multiple tools of artificial intelligence 126 00:06:18,533 --> 00:06:21,500 to really help me bring out all these thoughts and organizing. 127 00:06:21,500 --> 00:06:25,633 I'm curious, you know, as a creative, what how how have you used it 128 00:06:25,700 --> 00:06:28,933 and what are some tools that you know, from a creative point of view, 129 00:06:29,266 --> 00:06:31,700 that a creator should embrace based upon your experience? 130 00:06:31,700 --> 00:06:34,800 Sure. So, I'll give you a few examples. 131 00:06:35,033 --> 00:06:38,033 You know, I'm an artist by trade and designer. 132 00:06:38,066 --> 00:06:40,633 but I also know my limitations. 133 00:06:40,633 --> 00:06:44,500 So, you know, one thing I use Midjourney 134 00:06:44,500 --> 00:06:48,266 for almost every single day is basically a digital sketchbook. 135 00:06:48,266 --> 00:06:52,400 So any ideas I have, whether it's a character or a story, 136 00:06:52,666 --> 00:06:57,633 I just jot it down, prompt it, and output kind of like a digital digital memory. 137 00:06:57,833 --> 00:07:00,900 So I think from a visualization standpoint, I'm using it 138 00:07:01,333 --> 00:07:03,166 obsessively, right. 139 00:07:03,166 --> 00:07:05,133 for so many reasons. 140 00:07:05,133 --> 00:07:07,833 One, I can't draw as fast as I think to. 141 00:07:07,833 --> 00:07:11,666 I know my limits, and sometimes I just can't, produce 142 00:07:11,666 --> 00:07:15,066 what I'm visualizing, with with the tools I have. 143 00:07:15,066 --> 00:07:15,600 Right. 144 00:07:15,600 --> 00:07:20,866 and it helps me do a lot of, like, I'd say, daydreaming. 145 00:07:21,000 --> 00:07:21,466 Right. 146 00:07:21,466 --> 00:07:24,066 you know, we have great ideas sometimes. 147 00:07:24,066 --> 00:07:26,633 And sometimes I can't find all these people to think through it 148 00:07:26,633 --> 00:07:30,633 or put it down, and it just helps me in 30s outputs 149 00:07:30,633 --> 00:07:34,100 something that that will help me remember where I want to go next, 150 00:07:34,433 --> 00:07:38,933 you know, from, like a ChatGPT standpoint, I am not a writer, all right? 151 00:07:39,233 --> 00:07:41,500 I might be a good storyteller, I might have great ideas. 152 00:07:41,500 --> 00:07:45,666 But when it comes to like structurally writing things, I need it for help. 153 00:07:45,666 --> 00:07:49,266 Whether it's emails, feedback, reviews, 154 00:07:49,566 --> 00:07:52,133 you know, emailing, customer service about a problem. 155 00:07:52,133 --> 00:07:53,900 I think that it helps 156 00:07:55,433 --> 00:07:56,900 me, eliminate a 157 00:07:56,900 --> 00:08:00,700 lot of the friction it gets me to go from, you know, A to B, right. 158 00:08:00,700 --> 00:08:05,966 and it lets me, puts my thoughts down and then, you know, format in a way that 159 00:08:07,133 --> 00:08:10,133 someone would want to receive it. 160 00:08:10,566 --> 00:08:12,500 and then I think from, 161 00:08:12,500 --> 00:08:16,566 you know, an AI standpoint and just like creative exploration. 162 00:08:16,566 --> 00:08:20,766 Yeah, it's opening me up to how utilizing 163 00:08:20,766 --> 00:08:23,766 more than just one tool can really unlock, 164 00:08:24,700 --> 00:08:28,233 so many more ways to be, expressive as creative. 165 00:08:28,433 --> 00:08:28,666 Right? 166 00:08:28,666 --> 00:08:30,466 You know, so, you know. Sure. 167 00:08:30,466 --> 00:08:33,466 I'll use Midjourney to create an image, but, 168 00:08:33,666 --> 00:08:37,133 putting it in Firefly and adapting it, 169 00:08:37,466 --> 00:08:41,433 you know, stretching it, beyond the initial cropping 170 00:08:41,433 --> 00:08:42,333 and letting me change 171 00:08:42,333 --> 00:08:46,366 things is actually really getting me to think differently about, how, 172 00:08:46,933 --> 00:08:51,000 the creative output could be at the, at the end, you know, instead of, like, 173 00:08:51,500 --> 00:08:54,200 hiring someone to do a photo shoot with a person 174 00:08:54,200 --> 00:08:58,200 wearing a blue shirt, now I can have that person. 175 00:08:58,200 --> 00:09:02,133 I can adapt the clothing, you know, on the computer using 176 00:09:02,133 --> 00:09:06,066 AI until I see it as a viable product. 177 00:09:06,066 --> 00:09:06,933 Yeah, yeah. 178 00:09:06,933 --> 00:09:08,066 So with that, like, 179 00:09:08,066 --> 00:09:12,366 I think about, like, I think there's just there's really this debate I had and 180 00:09:12,366 --> 00:09:18,100 I had another, a designer, on my, on my podcast is just the last podcast. 181 00:09:18,100 --> 00:09:22,100 It just came out, his view was he definitely uses AI, 182 00:09:22,433 --> 00:09:27,233 but his view was that AI doesn't doesn't it won't make you creative. 183 00:09:27,233 --> 00:09:28,500 It's not a word I say this way. 184 00:09:28,500 --> 00:09:30,233 It doesn't replace creativity. 185 00:09:30,233 --> 00:09:31,233 it in the. 186 00:09:31,233 --> 00:09:33,400 For those who rely on that solely, 187 00:09:33,400 --> 00:09:35,933 they will be outpaced by those who are creative and use it. 188 00:09:35,933 --> 00:09:37,333 What is your thought on that? 189 00:09:37,333 --> 00:09:40,900 Yeah, I don't I think I think AI is creative. 190 00:09:41,200 --> 00:09:43,666 I mean, it has to be to some extent. 191 00:09:43,666 --> 00:09:46,833 I think, 192 00:09:48,800 --> 00:09:51,066 I think that it's going to you're going to have to understand 193 00:09:51,066 --> 00:09:56,166 how to use AI to truly be creative versus it being like a set it and forget it. 194 00:09:56,166 --> 00:10:01,133 I think there is an element of creativity, of prompting and creating the output. 195 00:10:01,133 --> 00:10:05,000 But at the end of the day, too, I think it all comes down to taste, style 196 00:10:05,000 --> 00:10:06,266 and sensibility. Yeah. 197 00:10:06,266 --> 00:10:10,733 So anyone can put anything into the prompt and see a result. 198 00:10:10,733 --> 00:10:13,866 But unless you have taste and style right, 199 00:10:13,866 --> 00:10:16,866 you're only going to reach a certain threshold like, 200 00:10:16,866 --> 00:10:20,233 you know, there was a way that the early, let's say 201 00:10:20,233 --> 00:10:23,500 end of 21 where like, I think everyone just got tired of AI 202 00:10:23,533 --> 00:10:26,533 because they're like, everything looks the same, right? 203 00:10:26,700 --> 00:10:29,800 and then there were some modifications and updates, and you see people 204 00:10:29,800 --> 00:10:32,800 starting to incorporate real design into, 205 00:10:33,100 --> 00:10:36,266 what the initial output is. 206 00:10:36,266 --> 00:10:38,666 And that's where it starts to really unlock the possibilities. 207 00:10:38,666 --> 00:10:40,366 So I think taste helps you blend. 208 00:10:40,366 --> 00:10:41,633 That's a good way of putting it. 209 00:10:41,633 --> 00:10:46,166 Like I, I went to a, I went to this performance a couple, 210 00:10:46,366 --> 00:10:47,933 I think it was last week. 211 00:10:47,933 --> 00:10:50,266 and, and a performer that's coming to Midwest. 212 00:10:50,266 --> 00:10:53,233 Com. Lisa. Fancy five, actually is her name. 213 00:10:53,233 --> 00:10:56,800 She had a, a performance about authentic intelligence 214 00:10:57,033 --> 00:10:59,366 and said the age of AI is not going to. 215 00:10:59,366 --> 00:11:01,966 What's going to still matter is, it's kind of, like, similar. 216 00:11:01,966 --> 00:11:03,366 What you're saying taste and style. 217 00:11:03,366 --> 00:11:08,000 What makes you an authentic person affects offensive creator. 218 00:11:08,333 --> 00:11:11,933 And thinking about how you put that and then get ideas 219 00:11:12,400 --> 00:11:13,733 and other expressions for that. 220 00:11:13,733 --> 00:11:16,766 And so like, how do you balance that out? 221 00:11:16,766 --> 00:11:17,233 Like how 222 00:11:17,233 --> 00:11:21,533 how do you advise people to think about how do you tap into your authentic self? 223 00:11:21,533 --> 00:11:22,666 What does that look like for you? 224 00:11:22,666 --> 00:11:27,466 I mean, I think, I think I use the same lens that I apply at work. 225 00:11:27,466 --> 00:11:30,833 Like if you have an idea, art, your 226 00:11:31,200 --> 00:11:35,733 your first go at it is like go to Getty or stock photography 227 00:11:35,733 --> 00:11:38,833 site to find something that reflects an element of the vision, 228 00:11:38,833 --> 00:11:40,600 and then you hope that you can go shoot it. 229 00:11:40,600 --> 00:11:44,966 And that's where your craft style and taste come out in the final execution. 230 00:11:46,766 --> 00:11:48,766 I think that comes with years of experience. 231 00:11:48,766 --> 00:11:52,133 I agree, and there is a big difference between good and great, 232 00:11:52,200 --> 00:11:55,200 you know, and I think those sites like, you know, 233 00:11:55,433 --> 00:11:58,933 that have stock photography serve a real purpose. 234 00:11:58,933 --> 00:12:02,933 But when you want to elevate the craft and creativity, you you do have to have, 235 00:12:03,333 --> 00:12:09,133 and I think an element of expertise and experience to uplevel the work. 236 00:12:09,133 --> 00:12:11,100 Otherwise you're just going to get the status quo. 237 00:12:11,100 --> 00:12:14,166 Yeah, I agree, and I think about like what I think about the creativity 238 00:12:14,633 --> 00:12:18,666 that a lot of that that was generated out of the 80s and the 90s 239 00:12:18,666 --> 00:12:22,100 that just thinking about music right now that say we don't have any creativity now 240 00:12:22,766 --> 00:12:26,900 we have some, but it's nothing compared to like the 80s and 90s early 2000s. 241 00:12:26,900 --> 00:12:29,900 And I'm not saying that just because we're we're a little more seasoned 242 00:12:30,033 --> 00:12:33,266 old a little bit, but what I'm saying is that, like you 243 00:12:33,266 --> 00:12:35,633 look at like think about Michael Jackson, right? 244 00:12:35,633 --> 00:12:38,133 How much effort he put into his craft. 245 00:12:38,133 --> 00:12:38,700 Right? Right. 246 00:12:38,700 --> 00:12:43,133 In terms of being able to dance, perform right. 247 00:12:43,466 --> 00:12:44,466 Produce right. 248 00:12:44,466 --> 00:12:47,500 Like so I do think people are had this sense that, 249 00:12:48,233 --> 00:12:51,166 hey, you don't need to do some of these things, I believe, to get 250 00:12:51,166 --> 00:12:55,066 that authentic self, to get that authentic kind of like what makes you great. 251 00:12:55,066 --> 00:12:57,600 You still have to go through some of that work and process it. 252 00:12:57,600 --> 00:12:59,466 I can enhance that. 253 00:12:59,466 --> 00:13:03,833 I think it's people that are just looking to think that they can be mediocre 254 00:13:03,833 --> 00:13:06,933 and that those people will have some trouble because, you know, 255 00:13:07,400 --> 00:13:08,933 I think people can still tell 256 00:13:08,933 --> 00:13:11,200 when thing, when, when there's no authenticity put into it. 257 00:13:11,200 --> 00:13:13,866 I think. Yeah. And I mean, I, I know I, 258 00:13:14,833 --> 00:13:17,833 we probably sound old 259 00:13:18,100 --> 00:13:19,866 saying that. Like you probably do. 260 00:13:19,866 --> 00:13:23,500 You know, I, I still think that people need to start off on the ground 261 00:13:23,500 --> 00:13:27,466 floor, like learn how things are made before they can skip steps. 262 00:13:27,966 --> 00:13:30,500 you know, again, me 263 00:13:30,500 --> 00:13:34,533 using AI and everything now isn't shortcutting anything for me. 264 00:13:34,533 --> 00:13:39,800 I still draw every day and and use my brain, but there is an element that is, 265 00:13:40,700 --> 00:13:43,600 you know, a bit speedier to market than what I'm used to, 266 00:13:43,600 --> 00:13:46,733 but I'm still applying the same sort of taste, sensibility, 267 00:13:46,733 --> 00:13:50,000 style and years of experience in the in the output. 268 00:13:50,000 --> 00:13:51,900 It's just manifesting differently. 269 00:13:51,900 --> 00:13:52,500 Yeah. 270 00:13:52,500 --> 00:13:55,433 I also think authenticity and or leaning have into this, 271 00:13:55,433 --> 00:13:57,666 but I think it's important is like, 272 00:13:57,666 --> 00:14:00,733 a lot of folks aren't used to doing this either. 273 00:14:00,733 --> 00:14:02,900 Like in terms of like, you know, newer generations, it's 274 00:14:02,900 --> 00:14:05,900 because everything can't be replaced with technology, right? 275 00:14:05,900 --> 00:14:08,666 Everything can't be replaced with a text message. 276 00:14:08,666 --> 00:14:13,366 people will tell you, like, even the most, expert people 277 00:14:13,366 --> 00:14:17,766 in implementing technology is three things in order to do it right, people, 278 00:14:18,766 --> 00:14:21,766 process which is learning stuff and then technology. 279 00:14:21,933 --> 00:14:22,333 Right. 280 00:14:22,333 --> 00:14:25,900 So like and but people think you can start with technology and work backwards 281 00:14:26,100 --> 00:14:27,266 and that's the problem. Right. 282 00:14:27,266 --> 00:14:31,133 And that's why I think we produce a lot of things that seem similar. 283 00:14:31,166 --> 00:14:34,166 because to me music sounds really similar now. 284 00:14:34,166 --> 00:14:36,066 Like for the most case there are exceptions or 285 00:14:36,066 --> 00:14:38,566 there are some very creative people and that's one example. 286 00:14:38,566 --> 00:14:41,633 But there others and people I think will die 287 00:14:41,666 --> 00:14:44,666 for that taste and style and that authenticity to come. 288 00:14:44,900 --> 00:14:45,900 I, I will. 289 00:14:45,900 --> 00:14:47,400 I noticed this the other day though. 290 00:14:47,400 --> 00:14:50,833 It's getting harder and harder to really see 291 00:14:51,933 --> 00:14:53,900 what's real and what isn't real though. 292 00:14:53,900 --> 00:14:57,700 And I think like as an artist, as much as I love this stuff, 293 00:14:59,033 --> 00:14:59,566 it is 294 00:14:59,566 --> 00:15:04,300 a bit of a battle because if you open acts or, you know, or Instagram 295 00:15:04,300 --> 00:15:08,333 and you see all this beautiful photography and art does beg the question, 296 00:15:08,333 --> 00:15:09,933 is it real anymore or is it not? 297 00:15:09,933 --> 00:15:12,033 Because the how do we got that? 298 00:15:12,033 --> 00:15:13,566 Like what's what's your thought on that? 299 00:15:13,566 --> 00:15:15,400 Like what should we do about that. 300 00:15:15,400 --> 00:15:19,433 Because I don't well I think, I think there's, I think 301 00:15:19,966 --> 00:15:23,766 that there's a few way I think the government and other companies 302 00:15:23,766 --> 00:15:28,066 have talked about, like calling out and truly identifying what is. 303 00:15:28,066 --> 00:15:30,600 I. Yeah. 304 00:15:30,600 --> 00:15:33,600 but I think in general, like 305 00:15:33,666 --> 00:15:36,966 I'm questioning if people even appreciate real art anymore. 306 00:15:37,000 --> 00:15:37,366 Yeah. 307 00:15:37,366 --> 00:15:42,333 because I can make, to some extent what I do 308 00:15:42,733 --> 00:15:46,466 in, Midjourney in a few seconds through, 309 00:15:46,466 --> 00:15:50,000 so I don't want to lose that appreciation for real handcrafted. 310 00:15:50,733 --> 00:15:52,566 So you're not sure if people do? 311 00:15:52,566 --> 00:15:53,700 I don't know. 312 00:15:53,700 --> 00:15:56,733 I don't know, my hope maybe I'm an optimist 313 00:15:56,766 --> 00:15:59,766 is that people will still want to connect with people. 314 00:15:59,933 --> 00:16:01,633 Oh, yeah, I definitely think that's true. 315 00:16:01,633 --> 00:16:06,233 I think, you know, I've seen sales slip for a lot of artists. 316 00:16:06,233 --> 00:16:06,733 Right. 317 00:16:06,733 --> 00:16:09,033 or people just being like, yeah, it's cool. 318 00:16:09,033 --> 00:16:12,066 Like, yeah, I can make it. Yeah. 319 00:16:13,233 --> 00:16:13,766 so I'm really 320 00:16:13,766 --> 00:16:16,966 concerned about, like, you know, people's well-being and career. 321 00:16:17,866 --> 00:16:21,833 I kind of goes to what we talked about, too, with, Tyler Perry. 322 00:16:22,200 --> 00:16:22,633 Tyler Perry. 323 00:16:22,633 --> 00:16:25,966 I was building, I think, a $800 million studio in Atlanta. 324 00:16:26,200 --> 00:16:29,166 He saw saw AI and halted production. 325 00:16:29,166 --> 00:16:33,000 And and I think his words were like, we have to figure out what this policy 326 00:16:33,000 --> 00:16:33,600 looks like. 327 00:16:33,600 --> 00:16:38,200 because it's, you know, this, this this made him stop, like, 328 00:16:38,233 --> 00:16:39,400 obviously something 329 00:16:39,400 --> 00:16:43,600 that's to have a lot of support for a lot of creatives in a big industry. 330 00:16:43,600 --> 00:16:46,733 So I think your, your, your concerns are well-founded. 331 00:16:47,333 --> 00:16:51,233 I mean, I when I saw that article, I was a little frustrated. 332 00:16:51,833 --> 00:16:53,033 Why were you frustrated? 333 00:16:53,033 --> 00:16:57,066 Because, when you look at what saw, 334 00:16:57,066 --> 00:17:01,166 and other people have done with, runway, you should look in to runway. 335 00:17:01,600 --> 00:17:07,000 they have done an amazing job with conceptualizing 336 00:17:08,466 --> 00:17:10,733 ideas like nuggets of ideas. 337 00:17:10,733 --> 00:17:13,400 There was a gentleman on X. 338 00:17:13,400 --> 00:17:15,433 I can't keep saying assets. 339 00:17:15,433 --> 00:17:17,500 You know, it's. Twitter, but I just can't say, this. 340 00:17:17,500 --> 00:17:18,800 Yeah, okay. 341 00:17:18,800 --> 00:17:19,466 I think he. 342 00:17:19,466 --> 00:17:20,933 Was the first person who did the. 343 00:17:20,933 --> 00:17:23,166 Platform formerly known as Twitter. There you go. 344 00:17:23,166 --> 00:17:25,700 He, he created the first movie trailer. 345 00:17:25,700 --> 00:17:27,900 Totally built, with eyes. 346 00:17:27,900 --> 00:17:31,100 He used ChatGPT and Midjourney, runway 347 00:17:31,133 --> 00:17:34,100 and other tools, and it looked phenomenal. 348 00:17:34,100 --> 00:17:36,700 It was like Dune meets Star Wars. 349 00:17:36,700 --> 00:17:39,700 I think he used cap cut to edit it, 350 00:17:40,066 --> 00:17:42,366 but you got to go shoot that. 351 00:17:42,366 --> 00:17:43,733 You got to get into production. 352 00:17:43,733 --> 00:17:47,466 So I think I worry that, like, just assuming that 353 00:17:47,800 --> 00:17:51,400 these tools can replace all the handcrafted, right? 354 00:17:51,500 --> 00:17:56,166 Storytelling, is, is a little too far fetched right now. 355 00:17:56,333 --> 00:17:57,133 I understand that 356 00:17:57,133 --> 00:18:01,300 maybe he wants to cancel it because he wants to think about, like, 357 00:18:01,500 --> 00:18:05,633 who's really needed in this $800 million studio, moving forward. 358 00:18:05,633 --> 00:18:11,533 But, to kind of pause and halt thinking that it's going to replace a lot, 359 00:18:11,533 --> 00:18:12,066 I think is, 360 00:18:13,900 --> 00:18:16,433 it's a little troublesome to for jobs in L.A. 361 00:18:16,433 --> 00:18:18,433 and people's careers. 362 00:18:18,433 --> 00:18:21,533 You know, we're focused a lot here at the Universe Society well, as well as 363 00:18:21,766 --> 00:18:22,800 as well as Midwest Con. 364 00:18:22,800 --> 00:18:25,466 Like, what does policy look like around data like? 365 00:18:25,466 --> 00:18:29,066 Because when we talk about AI, it's, it's really we're talking about data. 366 00:18:29,133 --> 00:18:32,766 and so like, I'm really thinking about, like, 367 00:18:33,233 --> 00:18:37,200 if we don't get this right to your point, like what I, what I fear could happen 368 00:18:37,200 --> 00:18:40,200 is that people don't know what's real and what's not. 369 00:18:40,433 --> 00:18:40,733 Right. 370 00:18:40,733 --> 00:18:43,900 And there so the initial part people might like it 371 00:18:44,400 --> 00:18:48,300 because the algorithms know us better than we know ourselves in some ways. 372 00:18:48,300 --> 00:18:49,766 But we've also seen 373 00:18:49,766 --> 00:18:52,933 the negative side of algorithms that don't have any type of restraint. 374 00:18:53,366 --> 00:18:55,266 That is what I call social media right now. Right. 375 00:18:55,266 --> 00:18:56,533 Like we we've seen that. 376 00:18:56,533 --> 00:18:58,500 At least that's my perspective. 377 00:18:58,500 --> 00:19:01,500 I can probably say that a lot of social media companies start 378 00:19:01,533 --> 00:19:02,633 off with the best of intentions. 379 00:19:02,633 --> 00:19:05,333 I think Facebook was about connecting the world, right. 380 00:19:05,333 --> 00:19:07,600 That happened until it disconnected the world, 381 00:19:07,600 --> 00:19:09,700 because then the algorithms took over. Right? 382 00:19:09,700 --> 00:19:12,600 And the goal was engagement at all costs. Yeah. 383 00:19:12,600 --> 00:19:15,600 It wasn't about, making sure the world was connected. 384 00:19:16,133 --> 00:19:18,233 It became, how do I keep you glued? 385 00:19:18,233 --> 00:19:21,866 And how people stay glued is that they're always mad and arguing with each other. 386 00:19:22,366 --> 00:19:25,266 Right. So that's what they give people. 387 00:19:25,266 --> 00:19:27,133 And it's hacking their brains in some way. 388 00:19:27,133 --> 00:19:30,133 I do have that fear that it could hack our brains. 389 00:19:30,566 --> 00:19:34,233 that and then it could also do something where people, enough 390 00:19:34,233 --> 00:19:37,333 people get upset that they want to shut down innovation, which is also bad. 391 00:19:37,333 --> 00:19:37,566 Right. 392 00:19:37,566 --> 00:19:39,733 So I believe the most important thing we need to do 393 00:19:39,733 --> 00:19:43,033 is figure out a way to do this and still, keep trust. 394 00:19:43,566 --> 00:19:46,466 I think, it needs to be augmented intelligence. 395 00:19:46,466 --> 00:19:49,200 Not not not not not completely artificial. 396 00:19:49,200 --> 00:19:49,700 Yeah. 397 00:19:49,700 --> 00:19:51,666 and I think we got to find that balance in. 398 00:19:51,666 --> 00:19:54,666 And I still think people will want to. 399 00:19:54,833 --> 00:19:58,400 Maybe I'm naive and I still think people will want to connect with people. 400 00:19:58,833 --> 00:20:01,700 And I think we should we should know if we're talking to a person, right. 401 00:20:01,700 --> 00:20:04,700 Or a false person and some people and entertainment is fine, right? 402 00:20:04,700 --> 00:20:07,300 If I'm watching Disney, I know, I know what's happening. 403 00:20:07,300 --> 00:20:08,233 Right? But 404 00:20:08,233 --> 00:20:11,233 if someone's pretending to be Adam Con, I need to know 405 00:20:11,800 --> 00:20:14,233 if it's you or is fake. It. 406 00:20:14,233 --> 00:20:17,666 If it is a fake version of you that you approved it, right? 407 00:20:17,666 --> 00:20:19,366 Because that's you, right? 408 00:20:19,366 --> 00:20:21,433 And no, like, we don't know. 409 00:20:21,433 --> 00:20:24,733 We have laws against that that are going to protect your image and likeness. 410 00:20:24,733 --> 00:20:28,533 But it's we're we're entering into an area that, like you said, we just don't 411 00:20:28,533 --> 00:20:29,633 know like 412 00:20:30,866 --> 00:20:32,633 what shouldn't we do with AI? 413 00:20:32,633 --> 00:20:35,866 If you had to say what we talked about, what we can't do, but what what 414 00:20:35,866 --> 00:20:38,866 should be off the table from your perspective? 415 00:20:39,033 --> 00:20:42,100 make, make it the only thing we interact with. 416 00:20:42,166 --> 00:20:43,566 You know. 417 00:20:43,566 --> 00:20:47,666 I mean, I think that's where you get to, like, AGI and some some craziness. 418 00:20:47,733 --> 00:20:49,233 Right? 419 00:20:49,233 --> 00:20:51,300 I do think it's 420 00:20:51,300 --> 00:20:52,700 I've listened to a lot of podcasts. 421 00:20:52,700 --> 00:20:57,066 It's going to be really hard to, like, crack down on what's what's real and fake, 422 00:20:57,533 --> 00:21:00,166 I think to a point where I've, like, almost given up, like 423 00:21:00,166 --> 00:21:03,166 reading the news somewhere or, you know, going through X or Twitter. 424 00:21:03,533 --> 00:21:06,333 I mean, yeah, you don't I don't know where that's where you get that. 425 00:21:06,333 --> 00:21:07,700 I don't know what's real or fake. 426 00:21:07,700 --> 00:21:11,633 And I do think that that's going to just totally screw up this next generation 427 00:21:11,633 --> 00:21:14,633 in understanding, like what's really happening in the, 428 00:21:14,766 --> 00:21:18,033 in the world, versus what people are telling you what's happening. 429 00:21:18,066 --> 00:21:18,500 Well, that's good. 430 00:21:18,500 --> 00:21:20,766 So how do you go about getting getting your news then? 431 00:21:20,766 --> 00:21:22,433 I don't turn it off. 432 00:21:22,433 --> 00:21:25,500 No. I know my wife has gotten so mad at me lately because I'm like, I'm 433 00:21:25,500 --> 00:21:28,666 just refuse to watch you because everything is so skewed. 434 00:21:28,700 --> 00:21:31,033 You're like me. To a perspective. 435 00:21:31,033 --> 00:21:32,500 You know? So I have I have a lot. 436 00:21:32,500 --> 00:21:36,766 I've said often, news is to the mind as sugar is to the body. 437 00:21:37,333 --> 00:21:38,300 It's a hit. 438 00:21:38,300 --> 00:21:40,300 Yeah, but then it takes you down. 439 00:21:40,300 --> 00:21:43,266 It makes you actually feel some type of reaction. 440 00:21:43,266 --> 00:21:44,400 But then you go downward. 441 00:21:44,400 --> 00:21:47,000 Know it's meant to is meant to do that to. 442 00:21:47,000 --> 00:21:49,000 We don't need actually as much information as we get. 443 00:21:49,000 --> 00:21:50,933 That's also part of the problem. Right, right. 444 00:21:50,933 --> 00:21:55,133 but but I do think what I so something I do is I don't 445 00:21:55,500 --> 00:21:57,900 I try not to look at the news on Twitter or anything else. 446 00:21:57,900 --> 00:22:02,233 I do read long form content and I'll maybe listen to a podcast 447 00:22:02,233 --> 00:22:05,233 about something, because that's less likely to trigger, right, 448 00:22:05,633 --> 00:22:07,600 than seeing a reaction, 449 00:22:07,600 --> 00:22:10,666 because on social media, the goal is to capture your attention. 450 00:22:10,666 --> 00:22:12,233 Yeah, it's not to inform you. Right. 451 00:22:12,233 --> 00:22:15,100 And so I try to pull myself back, but most people it's it's it's 452 00:22:15,100 --> 00:22:16,866 by the way, it's impossible to do it all the time. 453 00:22:16,866 --> 00:22:16,966 Yeah. 454 00:22:16,966 --> 00:22:19,400 Most people don't know I listen to a lot of podcasts 455 00:22:19,400 --> 00:22:20,366 because I think that's kind of where 456 00:22:20,366 --> 00:22:24,266 I get my source for like tech and yeah, and all that stuff happen in the world. 457 00:22:24,266 --> 00:22:28,433 But even local news in the paper, it's just so depressing. 458 00:22:28,466 --> 00:22:29,766 It is, though. 459 00:22:29,766 --> 00:22:31,833 The goal is to depress you and get you to angry. 460 00:22:31,833 --> 00:22:33,700 And I'm like, I'm not. I'm not doing. It. 461 00:22:33,700 --> 00:22:37,600 I remember as a couple of years ago I called my buddy. 462 00:22:37,866 --> 00:22:39,866 I used to live in Manhattan, I called him, I was like, dude, 463 00:22:39,866 --> 00:22:41,766 what is going on there? And he's like, what are you talking about? 464 00:22:41,766 --> 00:22:43,833 Yeah, he's like, it's a nice day out. 465 00:22:43,833 --> 00:22:46,533 I'm in Union Square and I'm like, well, the news just said 466 00:22:46,533 --> 00:22:49,133 there was a shooting here and then a murder there, 467 00:22:49,133 --> 00:22:52,133 and then someone got dragged and he was like, yeah, no. 468 00:22:52,300 --> 00:22:54,866 We're good, we're good, we're good, we're good. 469 00:22:54,866 --> 00:22:55,766 Okay, well, this is 470 00:22:56,900 --> 00:22:57,566 a little scary. 471 00:22:57,566 --> 00:22:58,566 Yeah. 472 00:22:58,566 --> 00:22:58,866 All right. 473 00:22:58,866 --> 00:22:59,700 So what do you want it like, 474 00:22:59,700 --> 00:23:03,033 what would you tell future creatives, people that are in this world 475 00:23:03,033 --> 00:23:06,366 that are just starting like, I mean, let's face it, this way. 476 00:23:07,366 --> 00:23:09,033 Your creator, you are. 477 00:23:09,033 --> 00:23:11,033 You always been. It's in your heart. 478 00:23:11,033 --> 00:23:14,266 what advice would you give yourself as a younger creator? 479 00:23:14,800 --> 00:23:17,333 Right. You're talking to young at this time. 480 00:23:17,333 --> 00:23:20,233 And then what advice would you ignore? 481 00:23:20,233 --> 00:23:22,500 what advice would I give the younger Adam? 482 00:23:22,500 --> 00:23:25,133 I typically say nothing because I. 483 00:23:25,133 --> 00:23:27,233 I like that I made all these mistakes. 484 00:23:27,233 --> 00:23:27,700 Right. 485 00:23:27,700 --> 00:23:32,200 but, and and and failed a million times, I think. 486 00:23:32,200 --> 00:23:36,466 I think the advice I'd give my younger self is like, don't, don't cut corners. 487 00:23:36,633 --> 00:23:39,633 You know, obviously we had less tools back then. 488 00:23:39,633 --> 00:23:45,466 and focus more on the craft you want to be excellent at. 489 00:23:45,566 --> 00:23:47,833 I think I tried a lot of things. 490 00:23:47,833 --> 00:23:52,600 you know, whether it was going into the movie industry or being an artist. 491 00:23:52,600 --> 00:23:56,333 And I think, I wish I had spent more time 492 00:23:56,333 --> 00:24:00,700 crafting certain things that I thought could be really great strengths. 493 00:24:00,800 --> 00:24:01,200 Right. 494 00:24:01,200 --> 00:24:04,666 And don't be afraid to fail and fail and fail and fail. 495 00:24:04,666 --> 00:24:07,700 Because I think that's where you get the most, learning experiences. 496 00:24:07,933 --> 00:24:09,433 No. Agreed. 497 00:24:09,433 --> 00:24:11,633 all right, another lightning round question. 498 00:24:11,633 --> 00:24:13,666 This is this always trips up, people. 499 00:24:13,666 --> 00:24:17,433 What's an important truth you have that very few people agree with you on? 500 00:24:20,766 --> 00:24:22,566 truth that I have. 501 00:24:22,566 --> 00:24:25,233 Oh, man. 502 00:24:25,233 --> 00:24:28,266 As it relates to my own art, anything, man, 503 00:24:28,300 --> 00:24:31,300 that I don't I don't want your feedback. 504 00:24:32,333 --> 00:24:37,133 I think that, hopefully I don't get dinged 505 00:24:37,133 --> 00:24:40,866 for saying this, but, when I was in art school, 506 00:24:41,400 --> 00:24:46,133 my professor went up to a piece that I had made and asked me 507 00:24:46,133 --> 00:24:49,833 kind of kind of a tough question to answer as an 18 year old. 508 00:24:50,200 --> 00:24:53,366 And he said, he's like, let's look at this. 509 00:24:53,366 --> 00:24:54,866 Let's talk about this piece. 510 00:24:54,866 --> 00:24:58,133 are you are you masturbating or doing art? 511 00:24:59,333 --> 00:25:01,933 And I was like, what's wow. 512 00:25:01,933 --> 00:25:04,066 And only are teachers, but yeah. 513 00:25:04,066 --> 00:25:07,066 And that has stuck with me, 514 00:25:07,300 --> 00:25:10,500 for forever and really, I think the crux of it is, 515 00:25:10,500 --> 00:25:13,133 are you doing art for yourself or are you doing, for other. Right. 516 00:25:13,133 --> 00:25:15,966 And I think when I do art, it really is for me. 517 00:25:15,966 --> 00:25:19,100 And for the most part, like I think that it's the one thing 518 00:25:19,100 --> 00:25:23,033 that I own, that that I want to create what I want versus 519 00:25:23,033 --> 00:25:26,866 it being like, nipped and tucked by budgets and constraints. 520 00:25:27,233 --> 00:25:29,366 And then so I think that would be my one truth. 521 00:25:29,366 --> 00:25:31,433 So sometimes art's just for me. 522 00:25:31,433 --> 00:25:31,800 Yeah. 523 00:25:31,800 --> 00:25:35,200 And I think I would argue the greatest artists probably have that. 524 00:25:35,200 --> 00:25:38,200 Like I think about like they probably didn't go out in, 525 00:25:38,233 --> 00:25:41,366 think about what everyone's opinion is going to be and like, 526 00:25:41,366 --> 00:25:42,566 how can I make something great? 527 00:25:42,566 --> 00:25:44,933 It's greatness comes from within. 528 00:25:44,933 --> 00:25:46,300 And then you share it with the world. 529 00:25:46,300 --> 00:25:48,266 It is your unique experience. 530 00:25:48,266 --> 00:25:50,833 But I kind of going back to the authentic intelligence, right? 531 00:25:50,833 --> 00:25:54,033 I actually think we all are artists in our own way. 532 00:25:54,033 --> 00:25:57,033 We are all expressing ourselves in this world, whatever, 533 00:25:57,400 --> 00:26:00,400 whatever God gave us, we had to figure out how to use that. 534 00:26:01,066 --> 00:26:05,533 And if we listen to too many voices, you can drown out who you are. 535 00:26:05,533 --> 00:26:07,433 That doesn't mean don't listen to people I don't want 536 00:26:07,433 --> 00:26:08,866 I don't want people to take that. 537 00:26:08,866 --> 00:26:12,566 But I do believe one of the problems we're facing in this generation 538 00:26:12,866 --> 00:26:15,666 is that social media has it that you 539 00:26:15,666 --> 00:26:18,133 you do things to compare yourself to others 540 00:26:18,133 --> 00:26:20,600 and not figure out how to get in tune with what makes you great. 541 00:26:20,600 --> 00:26:21,166 Yeah, yeah. 542 00:26:21,166 --> 00:26:22,733 I mean, I just think that's, that's a 543 00:26:22,733 --> 00:26:24,633 I think that's a really good truth that you have. 544 00:26:24,633 --> 00:26:27,033 And that's why you're able to be creative. 545 00:26:27,033 --> 00:26:30,733 Because if you're trying to be like everybody else, you come up with art 546 00:26:30,733 --> 00:26:32,366 that's like everything else, right. 547 00:26:32,366 --> 00:26:33,800 Right. Right. Yeah. 548 00:26:33,800 --> 00:26:34,066 All right. 549 00:26:34,066 --> 00:26:36,200 You got a committee of three. 550 00:26:36,200 --> 00:26:37,166 They can be living. 551 00:26:37,166 --> 00:26:38,033 They can be dead. 552 00:26:38,033 --> 00:26:40,266 You can combine living and dead. Yeah. 553 00:26:40,266 --> 00:26:42,533 They can advise you on business, life, creativity. 554 00:26:42,533 --> 00:26:44,066 Tell me who these three people are and why. 555 00:26:46,133 --> 00:26:48,766 Steve Jobs I think for, for obvious reasons, 556 00:26:48,766 --> 00:26:54,133 Jake Burton, the founder of Burton Snowboards, 557 00:26:54,333 --> 00:26:57,966 I guess quickly because, you know, at a time when, 558 00:26:59,033 --> 00:27:03,533 there were, you know, two flankers, skiers, ruled the mountain. 559 00:27:03,533 --> 00:27:07,500 there was one individual who really pursued, a different sport, 560 00:27:07,600 --> 00:27:10,733 and it got rejected over years and years and kind of built 561 00:27:10,733 --> 00:27:13,733 one of the largest snowboarding companies. 562 00:27:14,033 --> 00:27:17,033 so I think, you know, he's not living anymore. 563 00:27:17,033 --> 00:27:20,900 but I would love to know how he got through all the tough times 564 00:27:20,900 --> 00:27:24,533 and pursued a vision that was honestly widely rejected. 565 00:27:25,300 --> 00:27:27,133 So that would be my question for him. 566 00:27:27,133 --> 00:27:32,833 And then, finally, mixer was one of the first artists I ever saw as a child. 567 00:27:33,533 --> 00:27:36,366 and it was the kind of art that I just stared 568 00:27:36,366 --> 00:27:40,433 at for hours being like, how did you do this? 569 00:27:40,433 --> 00:27:44,966 And I think, I think those three people have always been really interesting to me 570 00:27:44,966 --> 00:27:49,500 from, you know, someone who, went against the grain for design 571 00:27:49,533 --> 00:27:54,033 innovation and had really strong beliefs and what great greatness is. 572 00:27:54,033 --> 00:27:56,166 And then someone that, when, 573 00:27:56,166 --> 00:27:59,600 when against the current when it came to trends and popularity, 574 00:28:00,066 --> 00:28:02,233 and then just art for the sake of doing 575 00:28:02,233 --> 00:28:05,800 art and blowing your mind I think is always just fascinating. 576 00:28:06,166 --> 00:28:06,766 All right. 577 00:28:06,766 --> 00:28:09,266 The had a motto and life slogan. What is it? 578 00:28:09,266 --> 00:28:11,133 It kind of kind of ties into, 579 00:28:12,200 --> 00:28:13,733 my art, but it's simple. 580 00:28:13,733 --> 00:28:16,700 It's I am what I am, and what I am is me. 581 00:28:16,700 --> 00:28:18,933 I love it, Adam. Let's have you on, brother. 582 00:28:18,933 --> 00:28:21,466 Thank you very much for having me, Rob, I appreciate it. It's it's. Great.