WEBVTT

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Android-seventeen has arrived, sort of.

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Section-seven-oh-two has expired, sort of.

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And privacy is at a greater risk than

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ever in Canada.

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All of this and more is coming up

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on This Week in Privacy,

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episode fifty-eight, so stay tuned.

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Welcome back to This Week in Privacy,

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our weekly series where we discuss the

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latest updates with what we're working on

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within the PrivacyGuides community and

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this week's top stories in data privacy

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and cybersecurity.

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I am Nate,

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and this week with me is Jonah.

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How are you doing this week, Jonah?

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I'm doing great, Nate.

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It's been a busy week,

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but I'm glad to be on the show

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again and doing this with you.

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Yeah, it's good to be back.

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Thank you guys for holding down the fort

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last week.

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Alrighty.

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Well,

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let's go ahead and jump into our stories

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right away.

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Our first story is pretty exciting here,

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and it is the Android.

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Seventeen is finally coming out.

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So it's it.

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Well,

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we'll talk about the graphene stuff in a

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minute.

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But first,

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let's talk about what's new in Android.

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Seventeen.

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So I think it officially came out.

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Like Wednesday,

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maybe Tuesday could have been yesterday.

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I'm really bad with time ever since COVID.

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I think a lot of people can relate

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to that.

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So a lot of the news that I

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saw personally regarding Android,

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really didn't talk about any of the

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privacy stuff.

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But thankfully, we have Fria,

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our staff writer who was on top of

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this and went through the announcement and

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made a list here of

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the updates that they found and they did

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say this may not be everything because

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again there's like the news usually the

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news does focus at least somewhat on the

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privacy and security stuff um but again it

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was kind of scarce this time but freya

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went through and found as much as they

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could and uh there's some exciting stuff

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so first up i don't know if this

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is in any particular order um but first

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up the uh the contact picker which is

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um very similar to

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I would argue, if my timeline is correct,

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I think Graphene had this first,

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and then iOS adopted it in iOS,

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but it's basically,

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I believe Graphene calls it the contact

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scopes.

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It allows you to tell an app that

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it can only have permission for certain

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certain contacts this is actually really

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useful for i'll give you a real example

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of this one um since we do have

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uh we being privacy guides and also over

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the new oil we do have an online

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presence on platforms we don't necessarily

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like like tick tock for example and every

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time i check tick tock it bugs me

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to give it access to my contacts and

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so finally i i

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Can go in and tell it,

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or like on an iPhone,

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I can tell it like, sure,

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have access and then just not give it

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access to anything.

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And it'll shut up and leave me alone,

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which is amazing.

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Um,

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but it allows for that awesome

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compartmentalization.

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Uh, there's a local network permission,

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which was previously opt in for

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developers,

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but now it is required in order to

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access devices on the local network.

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Um,

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loopback traffic is now blocked between

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profiles.

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According to Android authority,

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there is an advanced protection mode,

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similar to iOS lockdown mode.

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And, um.

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That's actually been out for a while,

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I think,

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but now it's getting some new features,

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including blocking accessibility services

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for apps that aren't accessibility apps,

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which is great because I've read in the

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past that that is a common vector for

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malicious apps to abuse things is when

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they...

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When an app uses accessibility features,

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it kind of gets extra additional

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permissions that it wouldn't normally

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have.

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So that is really good.

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Um,

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you can disable device device device to

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device unlocking.

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So I'm assuming they mean kind of like,

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um, like Android auto.

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I've noticed my wife when she plugs in

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her phone in the car,

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even if she doesn't unlock it,

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it just automatically starts playing music

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and stuff, which is handy,

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but it's probably not great for security,

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uh, disables web GPU and Chrome, uh,

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spam detection for chat notifications,

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which I'm going to assume is AI powered.

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and support for Android enterprise for

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managed devices.

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It says if apps are granted the SMS

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permission,

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they will not have access to one-time

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codes,

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which protects you from a malicious app

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stealing your two FA login details.

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Android also has encrypted client hello by

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default, which is, um,

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kind of a Jonah can correct me if

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I'm wrong here.

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I think it's kind of similar to encrypted

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DNS.

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It's not quite the same,

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but basically when there's that initial

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handshake,

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it just kind of adds a little bit

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of extra protection.

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Passwords are fully hidden by default when

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typing using a physical input device,

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such as a keyboard, uh,

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theft protection will be enabled by

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default on Android,

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which is pretty awesome.

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They've reduced the number of allowed

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failed pin attempts and increase the time

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between attempts.

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And you can now grant apps temporary

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precise location access,

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which gets revoked when they're closed,

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and is now adding a hybrid post-quantum

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cryptography for app signing to protect

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against future threat of quantum

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computers.

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And let's see,

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I think last but not least here,

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there's a background audio framework to

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ensure apps playing audio in the

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background don't make changes to audio

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that aren't intended by the user.

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So yeah,

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pretty hefty list of changes here.

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And just to kind of address the graphene

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stuff that we talked about in the headline

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here.

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So

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um according to my rss feed this just

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came out today actually um graphene is

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notoriously fast at adapting android and

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getting it ready for graphene they already

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have an initial release ready of android

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unfortunately they say there is an

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upstream android bug and updating via side

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loading uh

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Updating to this release via ADB

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sideloading to recovery from a previous

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release is unavailable.

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I did not know people did that.

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I've always been an over-the-air kind of

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guy,

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which they say that over-the-air works.

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But I guess that this is,

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and they say they're going to address this

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in a future release.

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But from what I understand,

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Jonah was saying he checked this morning

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and did not see this in the alpha

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channel on his test device.

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So it looks like maybe they're kind of

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holding off to work out some of the

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final bugs.

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But technically, it is here.

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It does exist.

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It's got boatloads of fixes,

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as you can see here.

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The main thing being an update to Android.

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But yeah, so that is on its way.

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I don't know that I have too much

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more to add to that.

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I'm very excited about this update.

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There's just something exciting about new

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major releases like this, in my opinion,

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but it looks like it's bringing a lot

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of really cool features.

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Were there any in particular that stood

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out to you or you wanted to discuss?

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Yeah,

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there's kind of a lot to be unpacked

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here.

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We can go over the Graphene OS stuff

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first.

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I think they said in their announcement

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that over-the-air updates will work,

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but they haven't released them yet.

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And in my experience,

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I have Graphene OS on one of these

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phones I have on my desk.

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Yeah.

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And it's set to the alpha channel,

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but if I check for updates on XVI,

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it still says device is up to date.

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So they haven't released that yet.

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You can't sideload this over an existing

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install either, as you mentioned.

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So got to wait a bit longer for

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Android XVII on Graphene OS.

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They say it was supposed to be out...

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like yesterday or two days ago i believe

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they say that it's delayed because of an

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upstream android ii book i don't think

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that they've shared what it is or what

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the problem is so

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Don't know too much beyond that,

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but I guess we'll be waiting a little

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bit longer for Graphene OS.

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But if you want a fresh install for

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some reason,

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I assume you can do that with the

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images that they've posted there.

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Other stuff that's cool,

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you mentioned encrypted client hello.

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For people who don't know what that is,

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that's basically the connection when

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you're making an HTTPS connection to a web

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server.

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That kind of handshake process where you

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get the certificate in the first place

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from that server includes the domain name

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in plain text.

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So men in the middle, like your ISP,

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for example,

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can see what domain you're connecting to

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still, which is kind of a...

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That's one way that they can see what

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domains you're connecting to,

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even if they can't monitor your DNS

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traffic because you're using encrypted

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DNS.

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So it's a cool feature.

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It requires...

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support on the web server site as well

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so not every site is gonna work with

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this um unfortunately it mainly affects

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sites that are behind super large cdns

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like cloudflare for example cloudflare is

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going to support this and basically any

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cloudflare site that you connect to will

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appear to come from a single cloudflare

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domain if we wanted to set up encrypted

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client hello

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For privacy guides, for example,

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we could make all privacy guides requests,

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like the one on our website or connections

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to our form all show up with the

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same domain name,

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but it would be limited to a domain

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name that we own.

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So it's a pretty small bucket,

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and people would still be able to see

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you're connecting to privacy guides.

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Not to mention that your IP address is

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still going to be

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the IP address that you're connecting to

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of the web server will still be visible.

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It's good protection.

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It's good that it's coming,

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and it does patch that whole encrypted

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DNS.

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It doesn't fully patch,

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but it's not a perfect solution.

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If you want to hide all of this

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traffic from your ISP,

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it's still recommended to use a VPN,

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basically.

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That's my point.

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Other stuff.

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The biggest thing I'm excited about,

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but this is just because I'm a

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cryptography nerd.

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I like the whole...

00:10:03.981 --> 00:10:05.744
post-quantum cryptography that they're

00:10:05.804 --> 00:10:06.085
adding.

00:10:06.365 --> 00:10:08.408
I have felt recently,

00:10:08.467 --> 00:10:10.070
especially in like the last year or so,

00:10:10.110 --> 00:10:12.734
that post-quantum cryptography is becoming

00:10:12.813 --> 00:10:16.158
much more important and we need to switch

00:10:16.197 --> 00:10:18.280
over as much stuff as soon as possible,

00:10:18.321 --> 00:10:19.461
because even though we're probably

00:10:20.345 --> 00:10:22.605
years out from it being practical i think

00:10:22.625 --> 00:10:25.366
that that period is shorter than a lot

00:10:25.386 --> 00:10:26.748
of people think it's probably not going to

00:10:26.788 --> 00:10:29.769
be like decades away it might be might

00:10:29.809 --> 00:10:31.509
be under a decade at this point and

00:10:31.549 --> 00:10:33.091
some recommendations say that we need to

00:10:33.410 --> 00:10:36.712
switch entirely over by some recent

00:10:36.753 --> 00:10:38.474
advancements that we talked about in the

00:10:38.514 --> 00:10:41.434
quantum encryption space i think a couple

00:10:42.154 --> 00:10:44.035
um weeks ago here on the show but

00:10:44.096 --> 00:10:46.778
also we talked about it in some news

00:10:46.898 --> 00:10:48.859
articles on our website

00:10:49.759 --> 00:10:52.820
they seem to indicate that the quantum

00:10:53.799 --> 00:10:57.322
computing field is progressing at a at a

00:10:57.381 --> 00:11:00.001
pretty fast rate at this point so always

00:11:00.042 --> 00:11:04.024
cool to see more things adopt that they

00:11:04.043 --> 00:11:06.825
are going to use it for the android's

00:11:06.924 --> 00:11:08.524
bootloader i believe they're already doing

00:11:08.544 --> 00:11:10.885
it for the verified boot chain they say

00:11:10.905 --> 00:11:12.866
that they're going to bring post quantum

00:11:12.966 --> 00:11:15.187
cryptography to app signing so you can

00:11:15.246 --> 00:11:16.288
sign your apps with that

00:11:17.128 --> 00:11:18.428
Since we just released an app,

00:11:18.609 --> 00:11:19.289
a privacy guides,

00:11:19.309 --> 00:11:22.212
the verified apps app with our data set

00:11:22.232 --> 00:11:22.773
that we're building.

00:11:23.192 --> 00:11:23.894
I looked into that,

00:11:24.014 --> 00:11:26.917
but there are no tools and nothing in

00:11:26.976 --> 00:11:29.818
the Android seventeen public source code

00:11:29.839 --> 00:11:33.903
that I could find that mention post

00:11:33.942 --> 00:11:35.264
quantum cryptography at all.

00:11:35.484 --> 00:11:37.285
So it's not something we can do yet,

00:11:37.306 --> 00:11:39.106
but hopefully hopefully soon they open

00:11:39.126 --> 00:11:39.967
that up to developers.

00:11:41.683 --> 00:11:42.323
Beyond that,

00:11:42.443 --> 00:11:43.865
I think you kind of covered all the

00:11:43.904 --> 00:11:44.684
other stuff.

00:11:46.144 --> 00:11:47.024
I don't know if I have too much

00:11:47.184 --> 00:11:49.346
to say about any of the other protections,

00:11:49.405 --> 00:11:51.326
except I think that they're pretty cool.

00:11:51.385 --> 00:11:53.006
A lot of these were a long time

00:11:53.307 --> 00:11:53.706
coming,

00:11:53.767 --> 00:11:56.447
like the contact picker stuff that you

00:11:56.467 --> 00:11:57.967
mentioned, Nate.

00:11:58.467 --> 00:12:00.489
So I'm glad that Android,

00:12:00.688 --> 00:12:02.389
stock Android is finally catching up in

00:12:02.428 --> 00:12:05.429
some respects to Graphene OS and iOS.

00:12:05.450 --> 00:12:06.470
That's always a good thing to see.

00:12:07.754 --> 00:12:09.376
Um, yeah,

00:12:09.797 --> 00:12:11.720
I think that's kind of it though,

00:12:11.759 --> 00:12:13.461
unless anyone in the chat has anything

00:12:13.543 --> 00:12:16.626
else they want to know about Android.

00:12:18.820 --> 00:12:20.160
Yeah, it's definitely, um,

00:12:20.260 --> 00:12:21.380
on the contact picker thing.

00:12:21.520 --> 00:12:24.601
I love the, um, I love the competition.

00:12:24.621 --> 00:12:25.802
This is one of those areas where like

00:12:25.822 --> 00:12:27.543
competition is actually really good and

00:12:27.602 --> 00:12:31.325
helps everyone because now like, um,

00:12:31.365 --> 00:12:32.004
It's kind of sad.

00:12:32.044 --> 00:12:33.826
It takes like a small team,

00:12:33.846 --> 00:12:35.326
like graphene doing it to motivate these

00:12:35.346 --> 00:12:36.667
big companies, but you know,

00:12:36.726 --> 00:12:37.706
graphene will add something.

00:12:37.726 --> 00:12:39.567
And then somebody at iPhone or Apple,

00:12:39.587 --> 00:12:40.687
I guess it's like, oh, that's pretty cool.

00:12:40.707 --> 00:12:41.489
We should add that now.

00:12:41.528 --> 00:12:42.188
Google's like crap.

00:12:42.229 --> 00:12:43.028
Now we have to add that.

00:12:43.048 --> 00:12:43.710
And you know,

00:12:43.750 --> 00:12:44.769
that's how we ended up with like the,

00:12:44.950 --> 00:12:46.070
the, and I know they're not perfect,

00:12:46.090 --> 00:12:47.171
but that's how we ended up like with

00:12:47.191 --> 00:12:47.551
like the price

00:12:47.812 --> 00:12:49.359
labels and the app stores and how we

00:12:49.399 --> 00:12:49.760
ended up with

00:12:51.100 --> 00:12:53.903
uh crap what was it um like the

00:12:53.923 --> 00:12:55.943
privacy dashboards and like screen time

00:12:56.225 --> 00:12:57.666
and and just all these neat little

00:12:57.686 --> 00:13:00.908
features that uh are making you know just

00:13:00.947 --> 00:13:02.269
making everyone more private because you

00:13:02.288 --> 00:13:03.789
know it's it's um i know he didn't

00:13:03.809 --> 00:13:05.370
come up with it but carrie parker on

00:13:05.510 --> 00:13:06.591
always says on firewalls don't stop

00:13:06.611 --> 00:13:08.533
dragons like privacy is a team sport you

00:13:08.572 --> 00:13:10.875
know it's a rising tide lifts all ships

00:13:10.934 --> 00:13:12.456
when everybody gets more private that's a

00:13:12.475 --> 00:13:15.097
net win regardless like yeah obviously we

00:13:15.138 --> 00:13:16.479
want people to switch to something like

00:13:16.519 --> 00:13:19.000
graphene and be better but that still

00:13:19.020 --> 00:13:20.461
doesn't mean that people don't deserve

00:13:20.961 --> 00:13:22.942
a better level of privacy when they're on

00:13:23.423 --> 00:13:25.144
iPhone or stock Android or whatever.

00:13:25.205 --> 00:13:28.025
So really, really cool stuff.

00:13:29.506 --> 00:13:30.727
Looking through some of the comments here,

00:13:30.768 --> 00:13:32.168
Harry Potter says the only thing I care

00:13:32.188 --> 00:13:33.309
about is dark mode feature.

00:13:35.211 --> 00:13:35.671
I feel you.

00:13:35.831 --> 00:13:39.552
I have my phone set to based on

00:13:39.592 --> 00:13:41.134
whatever the system and I think I have

00:13:41.173 --> 00:13:41.934
the system set to

00:13:43.216 --> 00:13:44.678
I think I do have set times, actually,

00:13:44.698 --> 00:13:46.059
that roughly correspond to when I'm

00:13:46.100 --> 00:13:47.280
winding down for bed and when I wake

00:13:47.301 --> 00:13:47.421
up.

00:13:47.441 --> 00:13:47.642
But yeah,

00:13:47.662 --> 00:13:48.883
it's really frustrating when it's

00:13:48.942 --> 00:13:50.705
nighttime and I open something and it's

00:13:50.745 --> 00:13:51.566
not dark mode.

00:13:51.865 --> 00:13:52.606
Or even vice versa.

00:13:52.626 --> 00:13:54.028
If it's daytime and I open something and

00:13:54.048 --> 00:13:54.769
it's in dark mode, I'm like,

00:13:54.788 --> 00:13:55.570
why is it doing this?

00:13:55.590 --> 00:13:57.631
That's really weird.

00:13:59.774 --> 00:14:00.835
Chubby Wubby here says,

00:14:00.855 --> 00:14:02.135
y'all saw that pixels have gone up in

00:14:02.177 --> 00:14:03.457
price after the UK announcement.

00:14:03.538 --> 00:14:04.119
I didn't see that.

00:14:04.158 --> 00:14:04.418
Did you?

00:14:05.062 --> 00:14:05.923
I did not see that either.

00:14:05.942 --> 00:14:07.303
I just found out about it from this

00:14:07.344 --> 00:14:07.644
comment.

00:14:07.724 --> 00:14:08.464
I'd have to look into that.

00:14:08.484 --> 00:14:10.884
But that is funny.

00:14:11.044 --> 00:14:13.025
And hopefully that's because people are

00:14:13.086 --> 00:14:14.366
switching to graphene OS,

00:14:14.606 --> 00:14:17.128
because I think more more people are

00:14:17.148 --> 00:14:18.408
finding out about that sort of thing,

00:14:19.008 --> 00:14:23.950
as these huge restrictions are implemented

00:14:23.970 --> 00:14:24.730
in all these countries.

00:14:24.770 --> 00:14:27.871
So that'd be positive, at least.

00:14:29.028 --> 00:14:29.268
Yeah.

00:14:29.307 --> 00:14:30.229
Harry Potter said that here,

00:14:30.269 --> 00:14:31.330
at least people are getting to know about

00:14:31.389 --> 00:14:31.710
graphene.

00:14:31.769 --> 00:14:32.671
The more normal it becomes,

00:14:32.691 --> 00:14:33.551
the better it is for everyone.

00:14:33.691 --> 00:14:33.991
I agree.

00:14:34.011 --> 00:14:35.893
Cause I remember, um,

00:14:35.972 --> 00:14:37.634
I think this was before I joined privacy

00:14:37.653 --> 00:14:37.875
guides,

00:14:37.914 --> 00:14:39.095
but I remember we covered a story about

00:14:39.135 --> 00:14:40.015
how in Spain,

00:14:40.517 --> 00:14:42.118
just having a pixel phone is maybe not

00:14:42.138 --> 00:14:43.057
enough to get you arrested,

00:14:43.097 --> 00:14:44.960
but at least like the cops will stop

00:14:44.980 --> 00:14:46.561
and talk to you because they know about

00:14:46.620 --> 00:14:48.802
graphene and like only criminals use it

00:14:48.863 --> 00:14:50.683
over there, which is completely insane.

00:14:50.724 --> 00:14:51.664
It's like, dude, come on.

00:14:51.725 --> 00:14:53.745
So yeah.

00:14:54.187 --> 00:14:54.267
Um,

00:14:55.764 --> 00:14:56.485
And yeah, I just,

00:14:56.524 --> 00:14:57.385
I want to address real quick.

00:14:57.446 --> 00:14:59.005
I know we, we keep saying sideloading,

00:14:59.025 --> 00:15:00.167
it's a force of habit and we really

00:15:00.226 --> 00:15:00.427
shouldn't.

00:15:00.586 --> 00:15:02.347
Cause yeah, it is, it is,

00:15:02.447 --> 00:15:03.849
it's one of those very subtle language

00:15:03.869 --> 00:15:04.328
things.

00:15:04.649 --> 00:15:05.288
Um,

00:15:05.349 --> 00:15:07.330
shout out to for anyone who's read that,

00:15:07.389 --> 00:15:08.910
but it's kind of like a,

00:15:09.051 --> 00:15:10.471
like changing the language to make it

00:15:10.510 --> 00:15:13.773
sound like it's something super techie or,

00:15:13.952 --> 00:15:15.594
you know, not authorized, like, oh,

00:15:15.614 --> 00:15:16.774
you're kind of like tinkering with your

00:15:16.793 --> 00:15:17.595
device, but it's like, yeah,

00:15:17.615 --> 00:15:19.394
you don't sideload something onto windows.

00:15:19.414 --> 00:15:20.436
You just install it.

00:15:20.495 --> 00:15:20.655
So.

00:15:21.177 --> 00:15:22.698
Although I will say in our defense in

00:15:22.719 --> 00:15:23.379
this case,

00:15:24.538 --> 00:15:27.019
I believe the command is ADB sideload to

00:15:27.100 --> 00:15:30.662
install a system image on top of your

00:15:30.701 --> 00:15:31.682
current Android install.

00:15:31.721 --> 00:15:33.822
So yeah, that is part of it.

00:15:35.543 --> 00:15:35.803
Yeah.

00:15:37.345 --> 00:15:37.825
Real quick,

00:15:38.404 --> 00:15:39.905
Sid the Shuckle said Android desktop

00:15:39.926 --> 00:15:40.206
update.

00:15:40.225 --> 00:15:40.985
We didn't see anything.

00:15:41.086 --> 00:15:42.706
There was nothing in here, unfortunately.

00:15:44.614 --> 00:15:47.096
yeah yeah i don't use android desktop too

00:15:47.135 --> 00:15:50.879
much i hear it's like limited in

00:15:51.499 --> 00:15:53.500
resolution and frame rate so it'd be kind

00:15:53.520 --> 00:15:55.403
of annoying to use on like a four

00:15:55.423 --> 00:15:56.803
k monitor i don't know if that's true

00:15:56.823 --> 00:16:00.426
though um because i have not used it

00:16:00.606 --> 00:16:02.368
but that's just something i heard recently

00:16:02.388 --> 00:16:03.828
that's that's interesting that would make

00:16:03.849 --> 00:16:05.770
it a little a little annoying to use

00:16:05.831 --> 00:16:06.071
i think

00:16:07.559 --> 00:16:08.923
I have a Pixel-A,

00:16:08.942 --> 00:16:10.547
so I don't think mine is compatible with

00:16:10.767 --> 00:16:11.428
desktop mode.

00:16:11.448 --> 00:16:14.095
Yeah, I don't know when that was added.

00:16:15.416 --> 00:16:16.437
I want to say it was added for

00:16:16.456 --> 00:16:17.798
the eights and higher.

00:16:17.918 --> 00:16:19.999
So I think the six a is running

00:16:20.019 --> 00:16:21.019
out of support next year,

00:16:21.059 --> 00:16:22.902
which means we'll probably be buying new

00:16:22.942 --> 00:16:23.682
phones next year.

00:16:23.922 --> 00:16:25.243
And, um, we'll probably,

00:16:25.764 --> 00:16:26.783
I'll probably tinker with it at that

00:16:26.825 --> 00:16:27.085
point.

00:16:27.125 --> 00:16:28.065
But I also,

00:16:28.125 --> 00:16:29.206
since I do a lot of video editing,

00:16:29.225 --> 00:16:31.107
it kind of has like limited, um,

00:16:31.408 --> 00:16:31.868
use for me.

00:16:31.927 --> 00:16:33.328
I'm sure even if I bought like the

00:16:33.428 --> 00:16:35.211
pixel pro or whatever their highest model

00:16:35.250 --> 00:16:35.331
is,

00:16:35.350 --> 00:16:37.491
I don't know if that would be up

00:16:37.532 --> 00:16:38.192
to the task.

00:16:38.712 --> 00:16:40.855
So, um,

00:16:42.241 --> 00:16:44.383
last thing i'll say before we move on

00:16:44.462 --> 00:16:46.004
is uh anonymous said cover the shiny

00:16:46.043 --> 00:16:48.465
hunters breach uh we do put out a

00:16:48.625 --> 00:16:52.447
weekly data breach roundup um so i didn't

00:16:52.486 --> 00:16:54.268
cover all of the services but i definitely

00:16:54.307 --> 00:16:55.769
did talk about that i think this week

00:16:55.808 --> 00:16:58.649
and possibly last week um when it first

00:16:58.669 --> 00:16:59.530
started coming out the

00:17:01.038 --> 00:17:02.379
Was it Salesforce they breached?

00:17:02.418 --> 00:17:04.000
It was something Oracle that they breached

00:17:04.019 --> 00:17:05.500
that has given them access to a whole

00:17:05.519 --> 00:17:06.500
bunch of other services.

00:17:06.520 --> 00:17:08.662
And the lovely thing about data breaches

00:17:08.701 --> 00:17:10.083
like that is they stay in the news

00:17:10.123 --> 00:17:11.762
for months because every few weeks there's

00:17:11.782 --> 00:17:13.183
another company coming forward like, yeah,

00:17:13.203 --> 00:17:14.224
we got hit by that too.

00:17:14.305 --> 00:17:16.026
So yeah,

00:17:16.066 --> 00:17:18.247
go ahead and subscribe to that or check

00:17:18.326 --> 00:17:19.827
privacyguides.org slash news.

00:17:20.932 --> 00:17:23.074
I'll be keeping you updated every time a

00:17:23.755 --> 00:17:24.694
new company comes along.

00:17:24.855 --> 00:17:28.897
But I think that's all we've got for

00:17:29.377 --> 00:17:29.998
this story,

00:17:30.058 --> 00:17:31.318
unless there was anything else you wanted

00:17:31.358 --> 00:17:31.720
to add.

00:17:32.980 --> 00:17:35.402
No, I think, yeah,

00:17:35.422 --> 00:17:37.063
we can move on to our next one

00:17:37.103 --> 00:17:41.085
here.

00:17:41.105 --> 00:17:42.205
This one comes from...

00:17:43.717 --> 00:17:45.698
Global news in Canada.

00:17:45.877 --> 00:17:47.917
The headline is liberals dismiss tinfoil

00:17:47.938 --> 00:17:51.719
hat privacy fears as lawful access bill

00:17:51.759 --> 00:17:52.380
passes.

00:17:53.420 --> 00:17:55.181
Liberals, the party,

00:17:55.441 --> 00:17:57.421
are dismissing the privacy concerns

00:17:57.441 --> 00:17:59.061
surrounding the government's lawful access

00:17:59.082 --> 00:18:01.481
bill as tinfoil hat and paranoid

00:18:01.561 --> 00:18:02.643
conspiracy theories,

00:18:03.042 --> 00:18:05.104
even after amending the controversial

00:18:05.144 --> 00:18:07.584
legislation to address some of those

00:18:07.703 --> 00:18:08.204
issues.

00:18:08.585 --> 00:18:10.265
The House of Commons passed Bill C-

00:18:10.285 --> 00:18:12.306
twenty-two on Thursday before breaking for

00:18:12.346 --> 00:18:12.726
the summer

00:18:13.185 --> 00:18:14.886
a day after approving a motion to

00:18:14.926 --> 00:18:17.588
fast-track the bill and end debate at the

00:18:17.628 --> 00:18:18.628
Public Safety Committee,

00:18:18.749 --> 00:18:21.151
which was then forced to approve it just

00:18:21.191 --> 00:18:23.932
before midnight without debating dozens of

00:18:24.092 --> 00:18:25.292
outstanding amendments.

00:18:25.633 --> 00:18:28.035
The amended bill will now head to the

00:18:28.255 --> 00:18:28.595
Senate.

00:18:29.134 --> 00:18:30.855
The legislation would give law enforcement

00:18:30.875 --> 00:18:32.836
the ability to get access to digital

00:18:32.896 --> 00:18:35.019
information more quickly and easily for

00:18:35.058 --> 00:18:37.460
investigations under a judicial order.

00:18:37.599 --> 00:18:39.520
warrant yet provisions in the bill that

00:18:39.540 --> 00:18:41.201
would allow the public safety minister to

00:18:41.261 --> 00:18:43.082
secretly order electronic service

00:18:43.102 --> 00:18:45.542
providers to retain user metadata and

00:18:45.583 --> 00:18:47.243
create access capabilities for their

00:18:47.284 --> 00:18:49.884
systems have sparked alarm from privacy

00:18:49.924 --> 00:18:52.326
advocates academics tech companies and the

00:18:52.405 --> 00:18:56.327
opposition parties uh so this whole story

00:18:56.748 --> 00:18:59.088
i we we talked a bit about the

00:18:59.169 --> 00:19:03.191
c-c-c-c-c-c-c-c-c-c-c-c-c-c-c-c-c-c-c-c-c-c-c-c-c-c-c-c-c-c-c-c-c-c-c-c-c-c-c-c-c-c-c-c-c-c-c-c-c-c-c-c-c-c-c-c-c-c-c-c

00:19:04.689 --> 00:19:06.670
this is kind of a common response i

00:19:06.710 --> 00:19:08.569
think we've seen from politicians lately

00:19:08.609 --> 00:19:11.391
where when they get a lot of backlash

00:19:11.510 --> 00:19:13.932
they will make changes and obviously they

00:19:14.711 --> 00:19:17.113
think that the the backlash is warranted

00:19:17.153 --> 00:19:19.713
enough to to make those changes to try

00:19:19.733 --> 00:19:22.095
and get this through um which is

00:19:22.134 --> 00:19:23.714
unfortunate hopefully it doesn't pass at

00:19:23.855 --> 00:19:26.375
all but it shows that they recognize there

00:19:26.395 --> 00:19:27.996
are some problems but at the same time

00:19:28.355 --> 00:19:29.457
they really want you

00:19:30.156 --> 00:19:32.358
They really want to get this impression

00:19:32.419 --> 00:19:33.660
out that the people who are asking for

00:19:33.680 --> 00:19:37.402
these changes are crazy and paranoid and

00:19:38.742 --> 00:19:43.185
really just want to create this,

00:19:44.007 --> 00:19:44.287
I don't know,

00:19:45.428 --> 00:19:48.589
public messaging out there that they are

00:19:48.630 --> 00:19:50.550
being forced to do these totally

00:19:51.051 --> 00:19:52.712
ridiculous things that they don't agree

00:19:52.732 --> 00:19:54.074
with when they're making these amendments

00:19:54.413 --> 00:19:54.954
rather than

00:19:57.253 --> 00:19:58.034
being kind of,

00:19:58.434 --> 00:19:59.755
they have to make these amendments because

00:19:59.795 --> 00:20:01.676
otherwise it wouldn't pass because it's

00:20:01.757 --> 00:20:02.896
completely unacceptable,

00:20:02.936 --> 00:20:04.218
the stuff that they're trying to pass.

00:20:07.228 --> 00:20:09.128
yeah i think i don't know if i

00:20:09.148 --> 00:20:10.409
have much to add i don't know if

00:20:10.489 --> 00:20:12.769
you saw anything further on in this

00:20:12.930 --> 00:20:14.390
article that you wanted to talk about nate

00:20:14.430 --> 00:20:18.530
but i think it's it still remains very

00:20:18.550 --> 00:20:20.731
important like we talked about last week

00:20:20.771 --> 00:20:22.893
that if you're in canada you got to

00:20:22.932 --> 00:20:24.692
speak out against bill c-二 make sure it

00:20:24.712 --> 00:20:28.314
doesn't pass because it's a very um broad

00:20:28.654 --> 00:20:30.714
overreaching policy that is going to have

00:20:30.974 --> 00:20:33.096
really bad implications for everyone

00:20:33.635 --> 00:20:37.119
in canada and we're seeing um around the

00:20:37.140 --> 00:20:38.922
world right now especially in the uk but

00:20:38.942 --> 00:20:40.042
also in other countries how these

00:20:40.143 --> 00:20:44.268
anti-privacy laws and regulations really

00:20:44.327 --> 00:20:48.271
negatively in fact affect real people so

00:20:49.933 --> 00:20:52.096
yeah hopefully uh hopefully it doesn't

00:20:52.136 --> 00:20:52.356
pass

00:20:54.809 --> 00:20:55.049
Yeah,

00:20:55.089 --> 00:20:57.070
I don't have too much to add myself.

00:20:57.871 --> 00:21:00.332
I just wanted to share that because it

00:21:00.372 --> 00:21:01.093
is really big.

00:21:01.532 --> 00:21:03.393
In the past, Signal, DuckDuckGo,

00:21:03.432 --> 00:21:05.993
and I think I said NordVPN and a

00:21:06.013 --> 00:21:07.414
whole bunch of other companies basically

00:21:07.434 --> 00:21:09.435
said they're going to stop serving the

00:21:09.455 --> 00:21:12.757
Canadian market, which is awful, right?

00:21:12.797 --> 00:21:14.998
Because you end up in a situation where

00:21:15.178 --> 00:21:15.857
either A,

00:21:15.877 --> 00:21:19.119
these people lose access to these tools,

00:21:19.839 --> 00:21:21.760
or B, they have to like...

00:21:22.540 --> 00:21:24.682
jump through hoops to circumvent or,

00:21:24.722 --> 00:21:24.923
you know,

00:21:25.222 --> 00:21:26.963
it herds people onto these weaker tools

00:21:27.003 --> 00:21:29.786
like I still can't believe we were just

00:21:29.826 --> 00:21:30.567
talking about that this week.

00:21:30.586 --> 00:21:32.228
What is it, salt typhoon or volt typhoon?

00:21:32.268 --> 00:21:33.268
Like to this day,

00:21:33.428 --> 00:21:35.069
I still can't believe that that happened,

00:21:35.829 --> 00:21:36.730
which for anyone who doesn't know,

00:21:37.171 --> 00:21:40.232
that was an incident where we discovered

00:21:40.292 --> 00:21:41.054
we being the U.S.,

00:21:41.094 --> 00:21:43.855
we discovered that China was in our

00:21:43.935 --> 00:21:45.997
infrastructure, like our telecom network,

00:21:46.037 --> 00:21:46.737
our phone network.

00:21:47.258 --> 00:21:49.199
They had been there for at least two

00:21:49.239 --> 00:21:49.900
years, I think.

00:21:50.779 --> 00:21:52.461
And we weren't even really sure when we

00:21:52.481 --> 00:21:53.221
were going to be able to get them

00:21:53.301 --> 00:21:53.423
out.

00:21:53.482 --> 00:21:54.723
We weren't even sure that we were going

00:21:54.763 --> 00:21:55.483
to be able to get them out.

00:21:55.564 --> 00:21:56.144
As far as I know,

00:21:56.184 --> 00:21:57.306
we said we've got them out,

00:21:57.326 --> 00:21:58.007
but who knows?

00:21:58.507 --> 00:22:00.509
And they got in through a law enforcement

00:22:00.528 --> 00:22:00.969
back door.

00:22:01.589 --> 00:22:02.049
And so, like,

00:22:02.089 --> 00:22:03.530
we always say there's no such thing as

00:22:03.550 --> 00:22:04.692
a back door that only the good guys

00:22:04.731 --> 00:22:05.133
can use.

00:22:05.492 --> 00:22:07.054
And we have literal proof of it.

00:22:07.174 --> 00:22:08.655
It actually happened.

00:22:08.756 --> 00:22:09.797
It's not a hypothetical.

00:22:09.916 --> 00:22:10.718
It happened.

00:22:11.238 --> 00:22:12.518
And these politicians still get up there

00:22:12.538 --> 00:22:13.398
and they're like, well,

00:22:13.898 --> 00:22:14.878
only the good guys will use this.

00:22:15.138 --> 00:22:17.960
This one will be different somehow.

00:22:17.980 --> 00:22:19.740
You know, step one, different backdoor.

00:22:19.820 --> 00:22:20.760
Step two, question mark.

00:22:20.780 --> 00:22:21.602
Step three, profit.

00:22:22.201 --> 00:22:25.083
So it's just and it's it's so many

00:22:25.123 --> 00:22:25.643
things, right?

00:22:25.682 --> 00:22:27.723
Like, to be fair, I think I mean,

00:22:27.743 --> 00:22:29.144
there's definitely politicians out there

00:22:29.163 --> 00:22:30.525
who are just corrupt and dirty and they

00:22:30.545 --> 00:22:31.605
don't give a crap and they just want

00:22:31.625 --> 00:22:32.444
the power and the money.

00:22:33.125 --> 00:22:34.185
I think there's also a lot of them

00:22:34.226 --> 00:22:36.006
that are just technically inept and don't

00:22:36.026 --> 00:22:36.586
know this stuff.

00:22:36.686 --> 00:22:37.067
I mean, like.

00:22:38.055 --> 00:22:38.994
I know I'm rambling a little bit here,

00:22:39.015 --> 00:22:41.115
but I will never forget the U.S.

00:22:41.135 --> 00:22:42.457
Congress made me feel bad for Mark

00:22:42.477 --> 00:22:44.417
Zuckerberg, which is impressive to say,

00:22:44.897 --> 00:22:47.419
because when when they grilled him after

00:22:47.439 --> 00:22:48.239
Cambridge Analytica,

00:22:48.378 --> 00:22:50.119
I remember you can find this online.

00:22:50.180 --> 00:22:50.779
It's insane.

00:22:51.740 --> 00:22:53.121
One of the politicians was asking him,

00:22:53.161 --> 00:22:53.480
he's like,

00:22:53.521 --> 00:22:54.942
so and he used the movie Black Panther

00:22:54.961 --> 00:22:56.163
because I think that was in theaters at

00:22:56.182 --> 00:22:56.462
the time.

00:22:56.502 --> 00:22:57.022
And he was just, you know,

00:22:57.083 --> 00:22:58.163
it's the big thing everybody was talking

00:22:58.182 --> 00:22:58.324
about.

00:22:58.743 --> 00:22:59.344
So he's like, Mark,

00:22:59.423 --> 00:23:01.305
if I if I message my friends about

00:23:01.325 --> 00:23:02.704
the Black Panther movie on WhatsApp,

00:23:03.086 --> 00:23:03.986
can Facebook see that?

00:23:04.346 --> 00:23:05.386
And Zuckerberg is like, no,

00:23:05.547 --> 00:23:06.906
it's end-to-end encrypted,

00:23:06.967 --> 00:23:08.407
which means that Facebook does not have

00:23:08.448 --> 00:23:09.288
access to your messages.

00:23:10.009 --> 00:23:12.150
And to me, that's how he said it.

00:23:12.170 --> 00:23:13.029
It was very plain English.

00:23:13.069 --> 00:23:14.750
Like, yes, he said end-to-end encrypted,

00:23:14.971 --> 00:23:16.092
but he explained what that means.

00:23:16.692 --> 00:23:17.932
And then the senator goes, right.

00:23:18.173 --> 00:23:19.553
But if I message my friend and basically

00:23:19.613 --> 00:23:20.693
ask the same question again,

00:23:20.773 --> 00:23:22.214
and you can see the look on Zuckerberg's

00:23:22.234 --> 00:23:22.775
face where he's like,

00:23:24.113 --> 00:23:26.234
is it me did i did i not

00:23:26.275 --> 00:23:28.856
explain that right and i'm like wow i

00:23:28.916 --> 00:23:30.157
actually feel sorry for this guy because

00:23:30.178 --> 00:23:31.259
they just they don't get it they don't

00:23:31.318 --> 00:23:33.560
understand this technology and it's almost

00:23:33.580 --> 00:23:34.381
like they're trying to go out of their

00:23:34.421 --> 00:23:35.843
way not to understand it sometimes but

00:23:35.903 --> 00:23:40.266
yeah this anyways it's um yeah that's just

00:23:40.286 --> 00:23:41.727
like what uh what anonymous just said in

00:23:41.747 --> 00:23:43.028
the chat too the one time you want

00:23:43.048 --> 00:23:44.930
the big tech lobbyist to win it's like

00:23:44.970 --> 00:23:47.092
yeah we're rooting for zuckerberg in that

00:23:47.132 --> 00:23:48.393
case we're rooting for the big tech

00:23:48.413 --> 00:23:50.413
lobbyist that kind of shows how

00:23:51.494 --> 00:23:55.357
How much these government legislators just

00:23:55.417 --> 00:23:57.940
do not understand any of these problems at

00:23:58.059 --> 00:23:59.861
all.

00:23:59.942 --> 00:24:00.221
Yeah,

00:24:00.382 --> 00:24:03.683
I've definitely seen a few news articles

00:24:03.703 --> 00:24:04.865
about lawsuits or something.

00:24:04.944 --> 00:24:05.965
And it's like, oh,

00:24:06.926 --> 00:24:08.627
Apple is going up against the DOJ.

00:24:08.667 --> 00:24:09.528
And I'm just like, oh,

00:24:09.588 --> 00:24:10.890
why are you making me side with Apple

00:24:10.950 --> 00:24:11.369
on this one?

00:24:11.450 --> 00:24:11.950
I hate you.

00:24:11.970 --> 00:24:14.112
So yeah, it's really bad.

00:24:14.152 --> 00:24:14.332
But I...

00:24:16.095 --> 00:24:17.459
I hate to sound like the tinfoil hat

00:24:17.499 --> 00:24:19.163
privacy person that they're painting us

00:24:19.262 --> 00:24:20.705
as, but you're absolutely right.

00:24:21.106 --> 00:24:24.375
It's a proven fact that when John F.

00:24:24.414 --> 00:24:25.298
Kennedy was shot,

00:24:26.640 --> 00:24:27.661
the CIA or whoever,

00:24:27.681 --> 00:24:29.422
whoever investigated it straight up said

00:24:29.442 --> 00:24:31.363
that they wanted to they coined the term

00:24:31.403 --> 00:24:32.763
conspiracy theory back then.

00:24:32.844 --> 00:24:33.964
That's where the term came from.

00:24:34.545 --> 00:24:36.006
And their whole thing was they wanted to

00:24:36.105 --> 00:24:37.807
discredit anyone who questioned the

00:24:37.826 --> 00:24:38.768
findings like that.

00:24:38.788 --> 00:24:39.248
That's true.

00:24:39.288 --> 00:24:39.688
That's real.

00:24:39.728 --> 00:24:40.288
That happened.

00:24:40.848 --> 00:24:42.150
And so it's like this is the same

00:24:42.170 --> 00:24:42.829
thing all over again.

00:24:42.869 --> 00:24:45.290
It's this whole like tinfoil hat privacy

00:24:45.330 --> 00:24:45.551
fears.

00:24:45.612 --> 00:24:46.692
It's the same reason they do the whole

00:24:46.731 --> 00:24:48.192
like this is to protect the children.

00:24:48.272 --> 00:24:50.434
It's so that way they don't have to

00:24:50.474 --> 00:24:51.795
listen to you because you're automatically

00:24:51.815 --> 00:24:53.896
a monster like we have.

00:24:54.497 --> 00:24:56.157
and you know it's it's i'm sure like

00:24:56.178 --> 00:24:57.198
yes there's something to be said for

00:24:57.258 --> 00:24:58.278
stopping crime there's something to be

00:24:58.298 --> 00:24:59.499
said for catching the bad guys and

00:24:59.519 --> 00:25:02.401
protecting the children but there are

00:25:02.520 --> 00:25:03.980
again legitimate concerns like the one i

00:25:04.000 --> 00:25:05.882
just raised about salt typhoon but it's

00:25:05.961 --> 00:25:07.903
it's it's um thought terminating cliche

00:25:07.923 --> 00:25:09.124
that's what it's called it's a thought

00:25:09.144 --> 00:25:10.805
terminating cliche if you label somebody

00:25:10.825 --> 00:25:12.786
tinfoil hat or a conspiracy theorist you

00:25:12.806 --> 00:25:13.865
don't have to listen to them anymore it

00:25:13.885 --> 00:25:15.247
doesn't matter what evidence they have

00:25:15.267 --> 00:25:16.467
because they're crazy just ignore them

00:25:16.507 --> 00:25:18.107
just don't even bother don't even waste

00:25:18.127 --> 00:25:19.528
your time listening to them and it's so

00:25:20.048 --> 00:25:21.549
disrespectful and insidious

00:25:22.269 --> 00:25:24.791
and whoever called us that um please vote

00:25:24.833 --> 00:25:27.634
that guy out of office y'all so yeah

00:25:27.654 --> 00:25:31.117
that's that's really crappy um i don't

00:25:31.137 --> 00:25:32.579
know and it's important to remember like

00:25:32.619 --> 00:25:34.340
the context of this is it really has

00:25:34.401 --> 00:25:38.285
widespread opposition from uh from tech

00:25:38.305 --> 00:25:39.726
companies especially privacy tech

00:25:39.746 --> 00:25:42.489
companies like signal and dot go as jordan

00:25:42.509 --> 00:25:44.931
just mentioned it has opposition from uh

00:25:46.231 --> 00:25:49.213
the the university of toronto's citizen

00:25:49.233 --> 00:25:52.596
lab uh which researches all of this uh

00:25:52.836 --> 00:25:55.876
privacy stuff it's i mean these companies

00:25:55.896 --> 00:25:57.518
are saying they'll pull out of canada like

00:25:57.538 --> 00:25:59.058
they've said about other countries who try

00:25:59.078 --> 00:26:03.121
to pass similar laws analyses by different

00:26:03.181 --> 00:26:05.061
civil liberties associations or

00:26:05.182 --> 00:26:07.064
universities like in that case are saying

00:26:07.084 --> 00:26:09.164
like no this is not a good idea

00:26:09.605 --> 00:26:12.567
it's really like any any expert who has

00:26:13.564 --> 00:26:16.906
voiced uh an opinion on on this bill

00:26:17.027 --> 00:26:18.488
is saying like no this is a terrible

00:26:18.548 --> 00:26:20.628
idea it's going to cause a lot of

00:26:20.848 --> 00:26:24.332
of problems it's just there there's just

00:26:24.372 --> 00:26:26.294
is some motivation to get these bills

00:26:26.453 --> 00:26:29.056
passed anyways um also the other thing i

00:26:29.076 --> 00:26:30.576
wanted to add i think for context if

00:26:30.596 --> 00:26:33.058
you're not super familiar with canadian

00:26:33.118 --> 00:26:35.140
politics and i'm also not super familiar

00:26:35.160 --> 00:26:37.781
with canadian politics so canadians in the

00:26:37.801 --> 00:26:39.323
chat can correct me but i believe the

00:26:39.363 --> 00:26:42.325
liberal party is similar to the

00:26:43.125 --> 00:26:45.347
democratic party in the united states if

00:26:45.367 --> 00:26:46.710
that gives you any context which is just

00:26:46.750 --> 00:26:49.251
that it's kind of a a big tent

00:26:49.352 --> 00:26:51.773
party with a ton of different viewpoints

00:26:51.814 --> 00:26:53.736
basically they don't have well at least

00:26:53.776 --> 00:26:55.317
the democrats in the us don't have

00:26:56.463 --> 00:26:58.724
a cohesive message, in my opinion,

00:26:59.204 --> 00:27:00.144
on most topics.

00:27:00.204 --> 00:27:01.685
I don't know if it's different in Canada,

00:27:02.105 --> 00:27:04.787
but similarly in the US here,

00:27:04.906 --> 00:27:09.167
I know that we've seen bipartisan support

00:27:09.228 --> 00:27:12.608
for a lot of similar policies like we've

00:27:12.628 --> 00:27:14.450
we've talked about COSA or repealing

00:27:14.490 --> 00:27:15.710
Section two thirty, for example,

00:27:15.750 --> 00:27:17.730
in a lot of those proposals are put

00:27:17.770 --> 00:27:20.592
forward by members of both parties we have

00:27:20.632 --> 00:27:21.751
here in the US.

00:27:22.652 --> 00:27:24.173
I just wanted to point that out because

00:27:24.212 --> 00:27:24.512
I think

00:27:25.613 --> 00:27:26.673
The Liberal Party, I believe,

00:27:26.713 --> 00:27:28.276
is the biggest party in Canada.

00:27:28.375 --> 00:27:28.976
And also,

00:27:29.997 --> 00:27:32.419
I think a lot of people assume that

00:27:33.420 --> 00:27:36.262
this stuff is coming from the political

00:27:36.282 --> 00:27:38.605
party that they personally don't like,

00:27:39.345 --> 00:27:40.405
no matter what side they're on.

00:27:40.746 --> 00:27:42.127
And I think it's just important to

00:27:42.167 --> 00:27:44.148
remember that a lot of people in

00:27:44.189 --> 00:27:46.652
government are trying to do this stuff

00:27:47.172 --> 00:27:49.413
regardless of political party.

00:27:49.493 --> 00:27:50.055
It's just...

00:27:52.410 --> 00:27:56.290
anti-citizen laws that will affect

00:27:56.330 --> 00:27:59.373
everyone on any side of the political

00:27:59.452 --> 00:27:59.692
aisle.

00:27:59.853 --> 00:28:01.834
So yeah,

00:28:01.993 --> 00:28:04.494
I just wanted to share that as well.

00:28:05.076 --> 00:28:06.336
I think that's kind of all I had

00:28:06.375 --> 00:28:07.896
to add on this.

00:28:09.965 --> 00:28:10.066
Yeah,

00:28:10.086 --> 00:28:11.448
I think the only thing I want to

00:28:11.508 --> 00:28:13.068
add is just to really drive home the

00:28:14.049 --> 00:28:15.531
it says there the amended bill will now

00:28:15.571 --> 00:28:16.232
head to the Senate.

00:28:16.272 --> 00:28:17.854
So this hasn't fully passed yet.

00:28:18.335 --> 00:28:20.217
So for any Canadians watching this or

00:28:20.317 --> 00:28:21.778
please pass this around like this is your

00:28:21.798 --> 00:28:24.181
chance to to speak up and try to

00:28:24.201 --> 00:28:26.242
get this hopefully.

00:28:27.403 --> 00:28:29.285
stopped or something,

00:28:29.305 --> 00:28:30.806
this is definitely your chance to contact

00:28:30.826 --> 00:28:32.247
your politicians, please.

00:28:32.267 --> 00:28:34.788
So, yeah.

00:28:35.348 --> 00:28:37.170
Yeah, I think on that note,

00:28:37.289 --> 00:28:39.971
we will move into our next story,

00:28:40.051 --> 00:28:43.413
which is this happened like the same day

00:28:43.614 --> 00:28:45.694
that the podcast went live last week.

00:28:45.755 --> 00:28:47.215
So unfortunately,

00:28:47.316 --> 00:28:48.537
a little bit too late to cover it

00:28:48.557 --> 00:28:49.758
last week, but we'll cover it now,

00:28:49.778 --> 00:28:52.380
which is that Section seven or two has

00:28:52.660 --> 00:28:54.060
expired, sort of.

00:28:55.941 --> 00:28:58.201
So where to begin?

00:28:58.342 --> 00:28:59.522
So for those joining us,

00:29:00.583 --> 00:29:01.723
you've probably heard of the NSA,

00:29:01.844 --> 00:29:03.785
the the National Security Agency.

00:29:04.625 --> 00:29:05.125
For some reason,

00:29:05.164 --> 00:29:06.586
my brain just said National Surveillance

00:29:06.645 --> 00:29:07.026
Agency,

00:29:07.046 --> 00:29:08.826
and that is definitely more accurate.

00:29:10.826 --> 00:29:11.387
The NSA.

00:29:12.607 --> 00:29:14.169
uh or the no such agencies they used

00:29:14.189 --> 00:29:17.190
to call it uh the nsa has i

00:29:17.210 --> 00:29:18.691
mean they have so much so many things

00:29:18.730 --> 00:29:20.092
so specifically there's something called

00:29:20.112 --> 00:29:21.832
the foreign intelligence surveillance act

00:29:22.292 --> 00:29:24.854
which is as the name suggests where the

00:29:24.933 --> 00:29:27.634
nsa derives i'm going to say a significant

00:29:27.674 --> 00:29:29.675
chunk of its power i don't really i

00:29:29.695 --> 00:29:30.817
mean i don't know the full scope of

00:29:30.876 --> 00:29:32.917
what the nsa's authorities and and

00:29:33.518 --> 00:29:37.339
regulations and stuff are but this is um

00:29:37.380 --> 00:29:37.720
this is

00:29:39.078 --> 00:29:39.999
FISA, as it's known,

00:29:40.038 --> 00:29:41.099
Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act,

00:29:41.599 --> 00:29:43.480
it specifically includes Section seven or

00:29:43.500 --> 00:29:43.839
two,

00:29:44.320 --> 00:29:46.141
which has been very controversial because

00:29:46.701 --> 00:29:47.561
it's it's old now.

00:29:47.602 --> 00:29:48.662
It's from like twenty thirteen.

00:29:49.041 --> 00:29:50.622
But John Oliver has an amazing episode

00:29:50.903 --> 00:29:52.303
where he talks all about it and he

00:29:52.343 --> 00:29:53.583
goes and interviews Edward Snowden.

00:29:54.023 --> 00:29:54.523
Huge fan.

00:29:54.663 --> 00:29:55.723
I love showing it to people because it's

00:29:55.763 --> 00:29:56.203
so funny.

00:29:56.644 --> 00:29:57.785
But in it,

00:29:57.845 --> 00:30:00.726
he explains that Section seven or two says

00:30:00.766 --> 00:30:02.945
basically that the NSA can collect, quote,

00:30:03.326 --> 00:30:06.886
any tangible thing pertaining to national

00:30:06.906 --> 00:30:07.287
security,

00:30:07.327 --> 00:30:08.307
which is basically like

00:30:09.067 --> 00:30:10.130
Like, come on, you could...

00:30:11.211 --> 00:30:12.613
I can interpret that in a million ways.

00:30:12.733 --> 00:30:13.213
Even I could,

00:30:13.233 --> 00:30:14.036
and I'm not even a lawyer.

00:30:14.115 --> 00:30:14.435
It's just...

00:30:14.797 --> 00:30:16.779
So it's basically become this, like,

00:30:16.799 --> 00:30:18.241
blank check for the NSA to collect

00:30:18.342 --> 00:30:19.624
anything they want under the name of

00:30:19.663 --> 00:30:20.404
national security.

00:30:20.865 --> 00:30:21.205
Shocker.

00:30:22.067 --> 00:30:22.587
And, um...

00:30:23.835 --> 00:30:25.336
Numerous studies have found that this is

00:30:25.375 --> 00:30:26.537
wide open to abuse.

00:30:27.096 --> 00:30:29.358
There have been many unsuccessful attempts

00:30:29.378 --> 00:30:30.779
to reform this, to rein it in.

00:30:32.260 --> 00:30:33.602
A lot of them basically just say what

00:30:33.642 --> 00:30:34.323
it already says,

00:30:34.363 --> 00:30:35.262
which is that they're supposed to get

00:30:35.282 --> 00:30:35.683
approval.

00:30:35.763 --> 00:30:38.645
But the the FISA system is basically a

00:30:38.685 --> 00:30:39.226
rubber stamp.

00:30:39.326 --> 00:30:40.567
So, yeah,

00:30:41.288 --> 00:30:43.189
we did interview quick shout out to we

00:30:43.209 --> 00:30:44.410
did interview Naomi Brockwell.

00:30:44.450 --> 00:30:48.212
She worked with Lauren Boebert and Thomas

00:30:48.252 --> 00:30:50.734
Massey, who are congresspeople.

00:30:51.909 --> 00:30:53.608
to try and put forward a law that

00:30:53.648 --> 00:30:57.109
would close this loophole that is still up

00:30:57.130 --> 00:30:57.490
in the air.

00:30:57.569 --> 00:30:58.390
It is an election year,

00:30:58.430 --> 00:30:59.951
so nobody's actually doing any work right

00:30:59.971 --> 00:31:00.191
now.

00:31:00.230 --> 00:31:01.431
They're all busy trying to campaign.

00:31:01.550 --> 00:31:04.531
But anyways, so long story short,

00:31:05.471 --> 00:31:09.593
this this had to be extended by last

00:31:09.613 --> 00:31:10.192
Friday, I think,

00:31:11.032 --> 00:31:13.713
and the government failed to extend it.

00:31:15.354 --> 00:31:16.273
I could make political jokes there,

00:31:16.294 --> 00:31:16.953
but I'm not going to.

00:31:17.794 --> 00:31:18.413
Suffice to say,

00:31:18.473 --> 00:31:20.194
it did not go through and

00:31:21.339 --> 00:31:22.060
As of right now,

00:31:23.221 --> 00:31:26.005
section seven or two will not be renewed.

00:31:26.404 --> 00:31:30.128
However, comma.

00:31:30.148 --> 00:31:31.490
I want to encourage us to celebrate the

00:31:31.510 --> 00:31:31.830
wins.

00:31:32.392 --> 00:31:33.492
Again, another interview I did,

00:31:33.553 --> 00:31:35.895
Cindy Cohen, former director of the EFF,

00:31:35.915 --> 00:31:37.057
she actually just stepped down this week.

00:31:37.497 --> 00:31:40.259
She she said that specifically,

00:31:40.279 --> 00:31:41.480
we have to celebrate the wins.

00:31:42.471 --> 00:31:44.292
That said, this is not a full win,

00:31:44.373 --> 00:31:44.752
sadly.

00:31:44.772 --> 00:31:46.153
And that's kind of why we're talking about

00:31:46.173 --> 00:31:46.674
it, is to kind of,

00:31:47.015 --> 00:31:48.455
because I've seen all the headlines going

00:31:48.476 --> 00:31:50.156
around about like, yay, it's repealed,

00:31:50.196 --> 00:31:51.778
it's expired, we won, blah, blah, blah.

00:31:52.038 --> 00:31:52.778
Even from the EFF,

00:31:52.798 --> 00:31:53.558
which kind of surprised me.

00:31:53.598 --> 00:31:54.900
They didn't have any of what I'm about

00:31:54.940 --> 00:31:55.519
to say in there.

00:31:55.539 --> 00:31:56.500
It was just like, yay,

00:31:56.520 --> 00:31:57.381
it went away and we won.

00:31:57.421 --> 00:31:58.902
And it's like, but wait.

00:31:59.321 --> 00:32:02.003
So the most glaring thing is that

00:32:02.983 --> 00:32:05.786
basically the way that section seven oh

00:32:05.806 --> 00:32:06.707
two works is

00:32:07.761 --> 00:32:09.002
It's kind of like a rolling

00:32:10.364 --> 00:32:11.164
reauthorization,

00:32:11.244 --> 00:32:12.707
and I don't understand how this is the

00:32:12.747 --> 00:32:13.047
case,

00:32:13.527 --> 00:32:15.269
but it's basically already been

00:32:15.348 --> 00:32:16.329
reauthorized until March,

00:32:17.351 --> 00:32:18.251
so at bare minimum,

00:32:19.112 --> 00:32:20.534
if this never gets renewed,

00:32:20.594 --> 00:32:21.734
if this never comes back,

00:32:22.214 --> 00:32:23.435
it will stay in place until March,

00:32:23.876 --> 00:32:25.999
so it's not really dead yet.

00:32:26.878 --> 00:32:28.320
That said, um,

00:32:30.420 --> 00:32:31.461
Again, I don't want to be a downer,

00:32:31.480 --> 00:32:33.221
but I do have to point out I'm

00:32:33.241 --> 00:32:34.722
assuming it could come back between now

00:32:34.742 --> 00:32:34.942
and then.

00:32:35.482 --> 00:32:36.784
I'm assuming that once the elections blow

00:32:36.844 --> 00:32:38.125
over, depending on who's in power,

00:32:38.964 --> 00:32:40.286
somebody could easily be like, hey,

00:32:40.306 --> 00:32:41.346
this is running out in a few months.

00:32:41.366 --> 00:32:42.488
We should really reauthorize this,

00:32:42.548 --> 00:32:43.988
and Congress will get together on both

00:32:44.008 --> 00:32:45.348
sides of the aisle and go, yeah,

00:32:45.409 --> 00:32:47.250
national security, danger, terrorism,

00:32:47.289 --> 00:32:47.871
bad things.

00:32:47.911 --> 00:32:49.571
Ooh, we need to revive this.

00:32:49.612 --> 00:32:53.213
So again, not trying to be –

00:32:54.059 --> 00:32:57.363
a downer, but that's entirely possible.

00:32:57.463 --> 00:32:58.944
And then, you know,

00:32:59.045 --> 00:33:03.130
this author points out that FISA is only

00:33:03.550 --> 00:33:06.413
one set of authorization for the NSA to

00:33:06.433 --> 00:33:06.994
spy on us.

00:33:07.214 --> 00:33:09.698
So it's entirely possible,

00:33:09.718 --> 00:33:10.798
and I would argue very likely,

00:33:11.219 --> 00:33:11.460
that

00:33:12.958 --> 00:33:15.040
Even if Section seven or two definitely

00:33:15.101 --> 00:33:17.384
does not get renewed and completely dies,

00:33:17.943 --> 00:33:19.666
there's still so many other ways that the

00:33:19.686 --> 00:33:21.729
government can justify this program or

00:33:21.769 --> 00:33:23.550
similar programs or anything like that.

00:33:24.011 --> 00:33:24.152
So.

00:33:25.188 --> 00:33:27.089
It's very, again,

00:33:27.170 --> 00:33:28.170
I don't want to bring the party down

00:33:28.230 --> 00:33:29.751
because we do have to celebrate the wins

00:33:29.832 --> 00:33:31.313
and it's great that this didn't go through

00:33:31.452 --> 00:33:33.013
and hopefully it will not go through

00:33:33.054 --> 00:33:34.394
between now and March of twenty twenty

00:33:34.434 --> 00:33:34.695
seven.

00:33:35.236 --> 00:33:36.497
But I guess it's just a reminder that,

00:33:36.517 --> 00:33:37.857
you know, the fight is not over.

00:33:37.877 --> 00:33:39.618
There's still a lot ahead of us.

00:33:39.740 --> 00:33:41.101
But yeah,

00:33:41.121 --> 00:33:42.221
I think we wanted to cover this because

00:33:42.241 --> 00:33:42.821
it is a big deal.

00:33:42.942 --> 00:33:44.042
Section seven or two has been in the

00:33:44.063 --> 00:33:44.462
headlines.

00:33:45.503 --> 00:33:47.224
god as long as i've been into privacy

00:33:47.786 --> 00:33:50.326
and just even even in mainstream headlines

00:33:50.346 --> 00:33:51.627
like it's been a really really big deal

00:33:51.667 --> 00:33:53.329
so this is great this is fantastic this

00:33:53.369 --> 00:33:55.750
is a step forward but uh unfortunately it

00:33:55.790 --> 00:33:59.094
is definitely not um the end of the

00:33:59.134 --> 00:34:00.153
the story there so

00:34:01.454 --> 00:34:02.517
uh i don't know did i did i

00:34:02.537 --> 00:34:04.398
miss anything that stuck out to you or

00:34:04.699 --> 00:34:07.622
anything no i think uh that's a pretty

00:34:07.642 --> 00:34:10.204
good overview that that article that you

00:34:10.224 --> 00:34:12.547
were that we were looking at uh does

00:34:12.608 --> 00:34:14.610
does cover a lot of stuff that i

00:34:14.909 --> 00:34:17.954
um had written about when i posted some

00:34:18.353 --> 00:34:20.376
facts about this to our members chat on

00:34:20.697 --> 00:34:21.978
signal um

00:34:23.679 --> 00:34:25.199
I think you covered it pretty well.

00:34:25.239 --> 00:34:27.961
It does extend until March, like you said,

00:34:28.001 --> 00:34:30.702
that's because section seven Oh two

00:34:30.722 --> 00:34:33.483
doesn't really say that, you know,

00:34:33.523 --> 00:34:35.505
the government has all these powers.

00:34:35.625 --> 00:34:38.407
It says that the foreign intelligence

00:34:38.586 --> 00:34:40.608
surveillance court can authorize all of

00:34:40.648 --> 00:34:43.548
these powers for a year at a time.

00:34:43.648 --> 00:34:44.969
So since it's already been authorized,

00:34:45.030 --> 00:34:45.550
you got to wait.

00:34:46.490 --> 00:34:47.731
The other thing I wanted to say is

00:34:47.811 --> 00:34:48.072
that

00:34:48.918 --> 00:34:52.541
There are a lot of provisions of FISA,

00:34:52.961 --> 00:34:54.523
the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act,

00:34:55.762 --> 00:34:58.105
that are going to be unaffected because

00:34:58.284 --> 00:35:03.728
only title seven of that law expired,

00:35:03.748 --> 00:35:06.650
which contains section seven or two.

00:35:07.530 --> 00:35:09.351
So there are other provisions,

00:35:09.411 --> 00:35:11.893
other titles in that, like title one,

00:35:12.414 --> 00:35:16.177
which basically give the U.S.,

00:35:16.976 --> 00:35:18.918
pretty broad spying authorities still,

00:35:18.958 --> 00:35:20.838
so all of that hasn't gone away.

00:35:21.139 --> 00:35:23.201
The one good thing about Title I of

00:35:23.240 --> 00:35:27.402
FISA is that it requires an individualized

00:35:27.583 --> 00:35:30.204
court process to monitor someone,

00:35:30.244 --> 00:35:33.166
which is at least aligned with the Fourth

00:35:33.226 --> 00:35:33.907
Amendment,

00:35:34.447 --> 00:35:35.827
the requirement to get a warrant,

00:35:35.907 --> 00:35:36.309
whereas

00:35:36.909 --> 00:35:38.791
title seven in section seven or two

00:35:38.871 --> 00:35:40.913
obviously were not at all aligned with the

00:35:40.932 --> 00:35:43.135
fourth amendment and in my opinion are

00:35:43.215 --> 00:35:44.597
were totally illegal but the government

00:35:44.617 --> 00:35:47.739
just kind of does this thing anyways um

00:35:48.780 --> 00:35:50.501
they the i saw at the end of

00:35:50.561 --> 00:35:53.045
the article they wrote about an executive

00:35:53.144 --> 00:35:56.128
order uh that order has been in effect

00:35:56.327 --> 00:35:58.449
much longer than than fisa has

00:35:59.590 --> 00:36:01.612
There is precedent for the government

00:36:01.813 --> 00:36:03.813
using that to basically do the exact same

00:36:03.873 --> 00:36:06.076
things that Section of two or Section

00:36:06.195 --> 00:36:07.217
seven or two allowed.

00:36:08.318 --> 00:36:10.719
We know that the CIA was performing

00:36:10.860 --> 00:36:13.902
foreign intelligence surveillance far

00:36:13.942 --> 00:36:17.003
before FISA allowed it under this

00:36:17.063 --> 00:36:17.905
executive order.

00:36:18.465 --> 00:36:21.827
So it seems likely to me that even

00:36:21.967 --> 00:36:24.128
if Section seven or two never comes back,

00:36:24.168 --> 00:36:26.050
the government is just going to continue

00:36:26.630 --> 00:36:28.451
operating the exact same way they always

00:36:28.490 --> 00:36:31.411
have been under executive order uh one two

00:36:31.472 --> 00:36:36.594
three three three so i think my overall

00:36:36.653 --> 00:36:39.355
point with that is is just like you

00:36:39.394 --> 00:36:40.856
said we have to celebrate the wins and

00:36:40.896 --> 00:36:43.237
letting these laws expire is obviously a

00:36:43.297 --> 00:36:44.978
good thing to get them off the books

00:36:45.137 --> 00:36:47.619
but even if we let all of these

00:36:47.858 --> 00:36:49.880
surveillance laws and other illegal things

00:36:49.900 --> 00:36:51.639
that the government is doing if we let

00:36:51.679 --> 00:36:54.581
them all expire even that is not enough

00:36:54.722 --> 00:36:54.981
to

00:36:56.001 --> 00:36:57.722
guarantee total protection for people.

00:36:57.762 --> 00:36:59.182
We not only have to get rid of

00:36:59.242 --> 00:36:59.663
these laws,

00:36:59.722 --> 00:37:02.844
but we have to introduce new laws that

00:37:02.884 --> 00:37:06.184
explicitly protect these rights and

00:37:07.125 --> 00:37:08.885
prevent the government from infringing on

00:37:08.925 --> 00:37:09.085
them.

00:37:09.425 --> 00:37:11.365
So something like the law that Naomi

00:37:11.405 --> 00:37:13.846
Brockwell was doing or was drafting,

00:37:14.306 --> 00:37:17.246
which we've said before on the show is

00:37:17.286 --> 00:37:18.407
pretty unlikely to get passed,

00:37:18.427 --> 00:37:20.288
but at least she's calling attention to

00:37:20.307 --> 00:37:23.889
this issue alongside Thomas Massey and

00:37:23.949 --> 00:37:24.568
Lauren Bovert.

00:37:25.128 --> 00:37:25.349
So

00:37:26.963 --> 00:37:28.945
It's a good educational piece at the very

00:37:28.985 --> 00:37:29.264
least,

00:37:29.344 --> 00:37:31.025
but laws like that do need to be

00:37:31.407 --> 00:37:33.648
passed because we need explicit

00:37:34.048 --> 00:37:34.489
protections.

00:37:34.528 --> 00:37:37.172
It's very clear that without any laws in

00:37:37.211 --> 00:37:39.132
place or with surveillance laws in place,

00:37:39.152 --> 00:37:40.414
the government is just going to do

00:37:41.293 --> 00:37:42.675
pretty much unlimited spying,

00:37:42.735 --> 00:37:44.896
which is not not great at all.

00:37:45.235 --> 00:37:47.257
So yeah,

00:37:47.396 --> 00:37:49.057
that's kind of most of the section seven

00:37:49.117 --> 00:37:50.619
or two stuff that I said.

00:37:52.139 --> 00:37:53.920
When I was looking at this last week,

00:37:54.360 --> 00:37:55.742
and I think that that article kind of

00:37:55.782 --> 00:37:57.563
covers the rest of it pretty well.

00:37:58.063 --> 00:38:00.043
I wasn't sure how section seven or two

00:38:00.063 --> 00:38:02.025
was going or the expiration of it was

00:38:02.045 --> 00:38:03.826
going to affect private companies.

00:38:04.246 --> 00:38:05.086
I saw that um,

00:38:06.641 --> 00:38:07.101
Anonymous.

00:38:07.701 --> 00:38:09.442
Twenty seven said,

00:38:09.481 --> 00:38:10.543
isn't there something where the tech

00:38:10.563 --> 00:38:12.324
companies can challenge in court the

00:38:12.364 --> 00:38:13.864
searches now during this one year

00:38:14.403 --> 00:38:15.985
expiration?

00:38:16.846 --> 00:38:18.746
That is true.

00:38:18.806 --> 00:38:19.286
Technically,

00:38:19.327 --> 00:38:21.206
I think they always could have challenged

00:38:21.226 --> 00:38:21.286
it,

00:38:21.306 --> 00:38:23.228
but they had no real incentive to because

00:38:23.268 --> 00:38:25.108
what Section seven or two did for tech

00:38:25.128 --> 00:38:27.750
companies was basically say you have

00:38:28.411 --> 00:38:28.971
immunity.

00:38:30.264 --> 00:38:32.367
if you comply with the government's

00:38:32.427 --> 00:38:32.867
request.

00:38:32.907 --> 00:38:35.148
So like you can't be sued later for

00:38:35.228 --> 00:38:37.389
the breach of privacy by your users,

00:38:38.170 --> 00:38:41.893
if you give us all of their data,

00:38:41.954 --> 00:38:42.474
which is good.

00:38:42.894 --> 00:38:44.416
And that actually has expired.

00:38:44.436 --> 00:38:45.737
So even though the government is

00:38:45.836 --> 00:38:48.978
authorized to take all of this information

00:38:49.018 --> 00:38:50.300
from big tech companies still,

00:38:50.679 --> 00:38:52.282
the tech companies are no longer getting

00:38:52.541 --> 00:38:54.563
protection from section seven or two,

00:38:54.583 --> 00:38:55.943
which is kind of crazy.

00:38:55.983 --> 00:38:57.405
So I think that

00:38:58.461 --> 00:39:02.025
At least my hope is that some giant

00:39:02.105 --> 00:39:03.987
tech companies will fight back on this

00:39:04.027 --> 00:39:06.588
because they have less of an incentive to

00:39:06.628 --> 00:39:07.208
comply.

00:39:07.469 --> 00:39:09.630
And I think a lot of these orders

00:39:10.032 --> 00:39:11.472
are, like I said earlier,

00:39:11.992 --> 00:39:14.394
completely illegal under the bill of

00:39:14.456 --> 00:39:16.938
rights in the U S so it's,

00:39:18.059 --> 00:39:20.481
I would hope that it wouldn't stand up

00:39:20.501 --> 00:39:23.003
to court scrutiny if it was actually ever

00:39:23.643 --> 00:39:25.123
really challenged by any of these

00:39:25.164 --> 00:39:25.565
companies.

00:39:27.202 --> 00:39:28.802
which I think the government would want to

00:39:28.882 --> 00:39:29.282
avoid.

00:39:29.463 --> 00:39:30.983
So there's two things there.

00:39:31.083 --> 00:39:35.065
I think to avoid being sued by somebody

00:39:35.125 --> 00:39:36.784
by like a big tech company, for example,

00:39:36.864 --> 00:39:40.365
the government might in the meantime be a

00:39:40.445 --> 00:39:42.166
little less.

00:39:42.726 --> 00:39:42.887
I mean,

00:39:42.927 --> 00:39:44.728
they might use this power a little less

00:39:44.768 --> 00:39:48.128
against these companies because they fear

00:39:48.208 --> 00:39:49.728
it being challenged and then being taken

00:39:49.849 --> 00:39:50.849
completely off the books.

00:39:52.045 --> 00:39:55.088
I also hope that the lack of production

00:39:55.208 --> 00:39:58.530
encourages Apple to or not Apple

00:39:58.550 --> 00:40:00.431
specifically, but a company like Apple,

00:40:00.451 --> 00:40:00.990
for example,

00:40:01.010 --> 00:40:02.692
I think has precedent of challenging this

00:40:02.731 --> 00:40:04.614
sort of thing like they did in twenty

00:40:04.653 --> 00:40:06.114
fifteen with that FBI case.

00:40:06.735 --> 00:40:09.315
Apple in that case was really opposed to

00:40:09.335 --> 00:40:11.458
the government forcing their developers

00:40:11.498 --> 00:40:12.838
and their teams to do anything.

00:40:12.898 --> 00:40:14.318
And I think that this is a similar

00:40:14.358 --> 00:40:17.460
situation where they just don't want to be

00:40:17.940 --> 00:40:20.523
forced to do something by the government.

00:40:21.809 --> 00:40:22.708
At the same time,

00:40:23.750 --> 00:40:25.190
a challenge against the government.

00:40:25.331 --> 00:40:27.130
It's already very hard for companies.

00:40:28.112 --> 00:40:31.273
They are still allowed to be fined like

00:40:31.333 --> 00:40:34.273
two hundred fifty thousand dollars a day

00:40:34.414 --> 00:40:36.014
by the government if they don't comply

00:40:36.054 --> 00:40:36.434
with these,

00:40:36.494 --> 00:40:40.077
which is obviously a very substantial sum.

00:40:40.597 --> 00:40:43.137
Maybe somebody like Apple with billions of

00:40:43.197 --> 00:40:44.018
dollars to just.

00:40:44.659 --> 00:40:47.643
burn on random things could absorb that

00:40:47.682 --> 00:40:49.585
hit but a lot of like smaller companies

00:40:49.626 --> 00:40:51.188
for example wouldn't be able to do that

00:40:51.288 --> 00:40:55.733
at all so a lot of companies won't

00:40:55.753 --> 00:40:57.215
be able to challenge this basically is

00:40:57.235 --> 00:41:00.260
what i'm saying so there's a couple routes

00:41:00.280 --> 00:41:02.063
that that could go down i wouldn't um

00:41:03.501 --> 00:41:06.184
really rely on the expiration of this to

00:41:06.766 --> 00:41:09.949
prevent any of this spying done until

00:41:10.068 --> 00:41:12.552
March, in the meantime,

00:41:12.572 --> 00:41:14.795
but it's possible that we'll see some

00:41:15.295 --> 00:41:16.757
change there.

00:41:20.992 --> 00:41:21.492
Fair enough.

00:41:23.492 --> 00:41:25.472
We did have a couple of quick questions

00:41:25.532 --> 00:41:26.393
I wanted to address.

00:41:27.733 --> 00:41:29.313
One is from anonymous.

00:41:29.355 --> 00:41:30.094
Twenty seven here.

00:41:30.474 --> 00:41:31.695
FISA versus seven or two.

00:41:32.034 --> 00:41:33.976
Seven or two is part of FISA.

00:41:33.996 --> 00:41:35.356
Just to clarify that.

00:41:35.436 --> 00:41:37.396
So they're not different things there.

00:41:40.106 --> 00:41:42.510
one is part of the other and again

00:41:42.670 --> 00:41:44.692
only that one part expired so Faiza is

00:41:44.731 --> 00:41:46.594
still on the books in general it's just

00:41:47.494 --> 00:41:52.360
this one crazy warrantless part basically

00:41:52.400 --> 00:41:54.563
yeah for sure and then um

00:41:55.722 --> 00:41:57.503
Anonymous also asked to clarify,

00:41:58.985 --> 00:42:00.766
did you did you mean that the reason

00:42:00.846 --> 00:42:01.925
this one is significant is because it

00:42:01.945 --> 00:42:03.407
allows warrantless searches of Americans?

00:42:03.726 --> 00:42:05.487
So technically, no, you are right.

00:42:05.507 --> 00:42:06.849
You said because there's no protection for

00:42:06.869 --> 00:42:07.268
foreigners.

00:42:07.668 --> 00:42:11.911
And that's how that's how the NSA

00:42:11.951 --> 00:42:14.112
justifies surveillance on Americans is

00:42:14.152 --> 00:42:14.652
because.

00:42:15.952 --> 00:42:17.634
So, for example, one of our team members,

00:42:17.673 --> 00:42:18.835
Jordan, is Australian.

00:42:18.894 --> 00:42:19.815
They're very open about that.

00:42:20.414 --> 00:42:24.436
And every time we Jonah and I text

00:42:24.456 --> 00:42:24.777
Jordan,

00:42:25.737 --> 00:42:27.898
That signal crosses international borders,

00:42:27.998 --> 00:42:29.619
and therefore the NSA is allowed to

00:42:29.679 --> 00:42:30.519
intercept that signal.

00:42:31.400 --> 00:42:34.041
They're supposed to discard the American

00:42:34.081 --> 00:42:35.621
side of the conversation, quote unquote.

00:42:36.202 --> 00:42:37.362
But generally,

00:42:37.902 --> 00:42:39.103
I think we can all agree that they

00:42:40.443 --> 00:42:43.025
probably do not or definitely do not.

00:42:43.085 --> 00:42:43.264
So.

00:42:43.965 --> 00:42:44.525
Yeah,

00:42:44.545 --> 00:42:45.706
that's that's kind of their loophole.

00:42:45.786 --> 00:42:47.528
Or Snowden pointed out in that John Oliver

00:42:47.548 --> 00:42:47.829
episode,

00:42:47.849 --> 00:42:50.150
I mentioned that sometimes he was like

00:42:50.190 --> 00:42:50.992
Google as an example,

00:42:51.052 --> 00:42:53.835
Google entirely invisibly to you will take

00:42:53.855 --> 00:42:56.617
all your emails and move them to another

00:42:56.677 --> 00:42:57.639
physical server.

00:42:58.018 --> 00:42:58.139
Like,

00:42:58.159 --> 00:42:59.360
let's say they need to do maintenance on

00:42:59.380 --> 00:43:00.862
that particular server where your emails

00:43:00.902 --> 00:43:01.021
are.

00:43:01.422 --> 00:43:03.083
So they'll move your emails to another

00:43:03.123 --> 00:43:04.545
server while they do maintenance.

00:43:05.186 --> 00:43:06.288
And you never see this,

00:43:06.347 --> 00:43:07.610
you never know this is happening.

00:43:07.989 --> 00:43:09.853
But maybe that server is in Mexico or

00:43:09.913 --> 00:43:10.695
Canada or something.

00:43:10.795 --> 00:43:12.396
And again, once it crosses those borders,

00:43:12.797 --> 00:43:15.342
the NSA has permission to do that.

00:43:15.722 --> 00:43:17.824
I don't know if they're still allowed to

00:43:17.965 --> 00:43:18.847
do or I don't know if it still

00:43:18.887 --> 00:43:19.407
works that way.

00:43:19.427 --> 00:43:20.028
Because to be fair,

00:43:20.068 --> 00:43:20.829
that interview was like,

00:43:22.572 --> 00:43:24.333
years ago at this point.

00:43:24.853 --> 00:43:26.195
That may no longer be the case,

00:43:26.215 --> 00:43:27.755
but that was how he explained it at

00:43:27.795 --> 00:43:31.916
the time.

00:43:31.936 --> 00:43:33.617
We got a couple of quick questions I

00:43:33.637 --> 00:43:35.818
wanted to note here.

00:43:35.878 --> 00:43:38.000
I'm having a hard time finding our page

00:43:38.239 --> 00:43:40.440
on Android because some people asked about

00:43:40.481 --> 00:43:42.422
Graphene OS and how Graphene's coming to

00:43:42.501 --> 00:43:43.282
Motorola's now.

00:43:44.101 --> 00:43:46.143
Would we argue that Pixels or Motorola's

00:43:46.163 --> 00:43:46.702
are safer?

00:43:46.722 --> 00:43:47.903
I'm trying to find the page where we

00:43:47.943 --> 00:43:48.824
recommend Pixels,

00:43:48.864 --> 00:43:49.003
but

00:43:50.664 --> 00:43:52.766
um i know it's there but basically yeah

00:43:52.786 --> 00:43:54.226
um at this time as far as i

00:43:54.246 --> 00:43:56.927
know uh pixels are from a hardware

00:43:56.947 --> 00:43:59.128
perspective much safer than or much more

00:43:59.168 --> 00:44:00.889
secure than motorola so it's not even like

00:44:01.429 --> 00:44:03.951
us versus china thing it's just that at

00:44:04.010 --> 00:44:06.092
this time pixel hardware is much more

00:44:06.132 --> 00:44:08.813
secure well i will i mean and that's

00:44:08.952 --> 00:44:11.213
important you say at this time i don't

00:44:11.233 --> 00:44:12.775
know what just happened to my cameras let

00:44:13.014 --> 00:44:16.036
me figure this out um but uh i'll

00:44:16.056 --> 00:44:16.717
just explain quick

00:44:18.351 --> 00:44:20.791
I think we have no way of knowing

00:44:20.811 --> 00:44:22.853
for sure what the Motorola thing is going

00:44:22.893 --> 00:44:24.213
to end up looking like,

00:44:24.233 --> 00:44:26.114
because I guess Graphene OS is involved in

00:44:26.135 --> 00:44:28.195
the design of this somehow.

00:44:28.956 --> 00:44:31.617
So hopefully they can bring Motorola's

00:44:31.737 --> 00:44:33.478
hardware security up to speed.

00:44:34.097 --> 00:44:35.898
But we will have no idea until that

00:44:35.938 --> 00:44:38.440
phone actually comes out.

00:44:38.501 --> 00:44:38.701
Yeah,

00:44:38.740 --> 00:44:39.681
which is what I was going to say

00:44:39.721 --> 00:44:43.382
is at this time, it's, you know,

00:44:45.344 --> 00:44:46.646
Yeah, that's where I was going is once,

00:44:46.746 --> 00:44:47.668
once graphing gets involved,

00:44:47.688 --> 00:44:49.552
this new Motorola might be more secure.

00:44:49.592 --> 00:44:50.612
And at that point we'll have to sit

00:44:50.652 --> 00:44:51.775
back and like reevaluate.

00:44:52.635 --> 00:44:53.257
I still can't find it.

00:44:53.297 --> 00:44:54.719
I know there's a page where we explicitly

00:44:54.760 --> 00:44:55.601
say that at this time,

00:44:55.641 --> 00:44:57.202
pixels are the only Androids we recommend,

00:44:57.224 --> 00:44:58.105
but I can't find it right now,

00:44:58.125 --> 00:44:58.746
but I know it's on there.

00:44:58.865 --> 00:44:59.666
It's on the website somewhere.

00:45:00.713 --> 00:45:01.034
So yeah,

00:45:01.634 --> 00:45:03.034
that advice may change in the future,

00:45:03.275 --> 00:45:03.735
may not.

00:45:04.135 --> 00:45:05.257
We don't really know at this time.

00:45:05.277 --> 00:45:08.418
And yeah, I mean,

00:45:08.518 --> 00:45:10.019
somebody asked about firmware backdoors.

00:45:10.119 --> 00:45:11.702
I mean, look, personal opinion,

00:45:11.782 --> 00:45:12.481
that's speculation.

00:45:12.521 --> 00:45:13.123
We can't prove it.

00:45:13.163 --> 00:45:13.983
We can't disprove it.

00:45:14.063 --> 00:45:15.925
If we can prove there's a backdoor,

00:45:16.045 --> 00:45:16.445
then yes,

00:45:16.485 --> 00:45:17.686
obviously that would change the math.

00:45:18.286 --> 00:45:19.646
But I mean, this whole like...

00:45:23.692 --> 00:45:25.012
My threat model is not high enough.

00:45:25.092 --> 00:45:27.454
If I have that kind of threat model

00:45:27.474 --> 00:45:29.677
where I can't trust the hardware,

00:45:29.697 --> 00:45:30.556
then I'm just not going to use it.

00:45:31.378 --> 00:45:32.179
For day-to-day stuff,

00:45:32.199 --> 00:45:33.559
like texting my wife to remind me to

00:45:33.940 --> 00:45:36.222
get eggs or whatever, I don't know.

00:45:37.302 --> 00:45:38.903
I can only care about so many things,

00:45:39.403 --> 00:45:41.505
and I can't spend my time on speculation

00:45:41.565 --> 00:45:42.005
personally.

00:45:42.887 --> 00:45:44.208
I know some people have that threat model,

00:45:44.248 --> 00:45:44.628
but I don't.

00:45:47.577 --> 00:45:48.958
while Jonah's figuring out his camera.

00:45:49.697 --> 00:45:51.199
No, we generally use Signal back here.

00:45:51.478 --> 00:45:52.998
Anonymous Twenty Seven is asking if I text

00:45:53.018 --> 00:45:53.820
Jordan with SimpleX.

00:45:54.599 --> 00:45:55.960
We typically use Signal because it's very

00:45:55.980 --> 00:45:56.481
feature rich.

00:45:56.521 --> 00:45:58.541
We are all already on it.

00:45:59.061 --> 00:46:01.083
I do have SimpleX, but yeah,

00:46:01.103 --> 00:46:03.262
I definitely don't get a lot of messages

00:46:03.302 --> 00:46:03.563
there.

00:46:07.144 --> 00:46:09.505
Somebody asked about Zen Browser.

00:46:10.146 --> 00:46:12.106
I know Jonah has used that in the

00:46:12.126 --> 00:46:12.427
past.

00:46:12.467 --> 00:46:13.027
He's a big fan.

00:46:13.047 --> 00:46:14.108
I think he still uses it.

00:46:14.628 --> 00:46:15.447
I haven't really used it.

00:46:16.889 --> 00:46:17.889
I'm a bit of a Brave person,

00:46:18.070 --> 00:46:20.050
to be honest, but I don't know.

00:46:20.070 --> 00:46:21.431
I kind of bounce around between browsers,

00:46:21.451 --> 00:46:23.112
but I primarily use Brave because I like

00:46:23.132 --> 00:46:25.612
that it just has a lot of built-in

00:46:25.652 --> 00:46:27.054
privacy stuff that I just don't have to

00:46:27.094 --> 00:46:27.494
think about.

00:46:27.934 --> 00:46:33.157
Yeah, as far as... I'm back.

00:46:33.177 --> 00:46:34.277
We'll see if it happens again.

00:46:34.358 --> 00:46:36.097
I don't know what's going on with my

00:46:36.137 --> 00:46:38.579
camera where it just stops and goes to

00:46:38.599 --> 00:46:38.960
showing...

00:46:39.931 --> 00:46:41.552
pictures I've taken instead, but whatever.

00:46:43.695 --> 00:46:44.114
Zen browser,

00:46:44.135 --> 00:46:46.677
I've talked about that in a few episodes

00:46:46.777 --> 00:46:47.797
now.

00:46:48.297 --> 00:46:50.318
So I would encourage going back if you

00:46:50.599 --> 00:46:51.760
want to hear full thoughts.

00:46:51.820 --> 00:46:52.701
But the main thing is,

00:46:52.800 --> 00:46:54.621
it seems to be a good browser.

00:46:54.641 --> 00:46:55.382
It seems like, you know,

00:46:55.643 --> 00:46:57.543
they're removing things that Mozilla is

00:46:57.583 --> 00:46:58.724
doing that I don't agree with,

00:46:58.764 --> 00:46:59.306
which is good.

00:46:59.385 --> 00:46:59.806
And they're not

00:47:00.489 --> 00:47:02.831
being privacy invasive by default,

00:47:02.871 --> 00:47:06.793
which you can't say about big alternatives

00:47:06.833 --> 00:47:08.675
to Zen browser like arc browser,

00:47:08.715 --> 00:47:09.436
for example.

00:47:09.576 --> 00:47:11.117
So from that perspective,

00:47:11.157 --> 00:47:11.818
it seems pretty good.

00:47:11.898 --> 00:47:13.139
It's still a Firefox fork.

00:47:13.298 --> 00:47:15.820
And there's problems with Firefox in

00:47:15.860 --> 00:47:17.001
general compared to chromium.

00:47:18.483 --> 00:47:19.704
it doesn't do a lot of like,

00:47:20.304 --> 00:47:23.085
super active protections to improve your

00:47:23.125 --> 00:47:23.664
privacy.

00:47:23.704 --> 00:47:25.306
So something like brave is going to be

00:47:25.365 --> 00:47:26.385
better than that, for sure.

00:47:26.405 --> 00:47:28.407
But there are some features.

00:47:29.007 --> 00:47:30.166
I think it was the last episode where

00:47:30.186 --> 00:47:33.108
I mentioned I do know brave is working

00:47:33.128 --> 00:47:35.088
to implement some of the features that I

00:47:35.208 --> 00:47:36.268
use in Zen browser the most.

00:47:36.289 --> 00:47:38.809
So maybe they will convince me to switch

00:47:38.889 --> 00:47:39.090
over.

00:47:39.150 --> 00:47:41.010
But I think I use both brave origin

00:47:41.150 --> 00:47:42.010
and Zen browser like,

00:47:43.190 --> 00:47:44.490
fifty fifty at the moment.

00:47:44.751 --> 00:47:46.411
And I like both of them.

00:47:46.552 --> 00:47:46.692
So

00:47:48.106 --> 00:47:51.568
But there's a Zen browser thread on the

00:47:51.588 --> 00:47:53.188
forum that I would check out for more

00:47:53.208 --> 00:47:54.650
information, as always,

00:47:54.710 --> 00:47:57.992
because it's gotten mixed reviews from

00:47:58.032 --> 00:47:58.492
some people,

00:47:58.552 --> 00:48:00.293
and I would not just take my word

00:48:00.313 --> 00:48:00.492
for it.

00:48:00.512 --> 00:48:02.193
I would look into it further before you

00:48:02.233 --> 00:48:07.556
decide to use it, for sure.

00:48:07.597 --> 00:48:08.978
We had another quick, before we move on,

00:48:09.038 --> 00:48:09.577
somebody said,

00:48:10.318 --> 00:48:13.240
do we have any case or how we

00:48:13.260 --> 00:48:14.541
guys did the change to Signal?

00:48:17.320 --> 00:48:18.402
I'm not sure what you mean by that.

00:48:18.443 --> 00:48:19.903
I think you're talking about how to get

00:48:19.985 --> 00:48:21.126
other people using Signal.

00:48:22.547 --> 00:48:23.409
I know we've said this a lot in

00:48:23.429 --> 00:48:23.809
the past,

00:48:23.849 --> 00:48:26.233
but my wife is the expert on getting

00:48:26.253 --> 00:48:27.114
people onto Signal.

00:48:27.193 --> 00:48:29.056
And usually her thing is that she focuses

00:48:29.637 --> 00:48:30.498
on features.

00:48:30.659 --> 00:48:31.699
Like if you're talking about

00:48:32.773 --> 00:48:34.034
um, quote unquote normies,

00:48:34.054 --> 00:48:35.655
like normal people who don't really

00:48:35.695 --> 00:48:37.056
prioritize privacy and security.

00:48:37.456 --> 00:48:38.916
They're not going to care if you talk

00:48:38.936 --> 00:48:39.976
about all the privacy and security

00:48:40.016 --> 00:48:42.518
features, but if you talk about how, um,

00:48:42.579 --> 00:48:44.059
it's got like these larger attachment

00:48:44.099 --> 00:48:46.519
sizes, it's cross-platform, uh,

00:48:46.721 --> 00:48:47.661
you can do message reactions,

00:48:47.681 --> 00:48:49.302
you can do gifts, you can do stickers.

00:48:49.362 --> 00:48:51.663
Like I know when signal rolled out Giphy

00:48:51.682 --> 00:48:51.963
support,

00:48:52.043 --> 00:48:53.184
a lot of people were pissed about it.

00:48:53.224 --> 00:48:54.543
And in stories too, same thing.

00:48:54.563 --> 00:48:55.284
Like a lot of people were like,

00:48:55.304 --> 00:48:55.844
this is dumb.

00:48:55.925 --> 00:48:56.485
I don't want this.

00:48:56.525 --> 00:48:56.925
I don't care.

00:48:57.306 --> 00:48:57.985
You don't care,

00:48:58.465 --> 00:48:59.666
but a lot of people do a lot

00:48:59.686 --> 00:49:00.427
of people use them,

00:49:00.606 --> 00:49:01.588
especially around the world.

00:49:01.668 --> 00:49:02.288
So, um,

00:49:03.030 --> 00:49:05.164
I would try to focus on what...

00:49:07.170 --> 00:49:08.471
Everything is about solving a problem,

00:49:08.530 --> 00:49:08.751
right?

00:49:09.331 --> 00:49:11.612
I almost hate to say this because it

00:49:11.632 --> 00:49:12.152
feels sleazy,

00:49:12.192 --> 00:49:13.972
but you almost have to approach it from

00:49:13.992 --> 00:49:14.753
a sales perspective.

00:49:14.813 --> 00:49:15.853
And the whole point of sales is that

00:49:15.873 --> 00:49:17.313
you're trying to solve someone's problem.

00:49:17.594 --> 00:49:19.155
Somebody has a pain point and you're

00:49:19.195 --> 00:49:20.494
promising to relieve that pain.

00:49:20.855 --> 00:49:23.255
So that's how I've had good results

00:49:23.275 --> 00:49:25.797
getting people on password managers

00:49:26.317 --> 00:49:28.318
because I'm there when they're logging

00:49:28.358 --> 00:49:29.197
into something and they're like,

00:49:29.418 --> 00:49:30.759
oh my God,

00:49:30.778 --> 00:49:32.018
what was my stupid password for this

00:49:32.059 --> 00:49:32.599
website again?

00:49:32.659 --> 00:49:33.139
And I'm like, hey,

00:49:34.246 --> 00:49:35.367
want to know a program that'll help you

00:49:35.407 --> 00:49:37.909
like never forget your password again and

00:49:38.650 --> 00:49:39.731
you know i i get them to use

00:49:39.751 --> 00:49:41.733
like bitwarden or something like that so

00:49:42.373 --> 00:49:43.954
it's uh trying to find out what is

00:49:43.994 --> 00:49:45.476
that that pain point that you're trying to

00:49:45.516 --> 00:49:46.536
solve for someone because again most

00:49:46.556 --> 00:49:47.637
people don't care about privacy and

00:49:47.657 --> 00:49:49.260
security but if you can tell them like

00:49:49.360 --> 00:49:51.221
oh you can send bigger attachment sizes or

00:49:51.742 --> 00:49:53.583
again like it's cross-platform i know rcs

00:49:53.623 --> 00:49:55.405
is becoming interoperable now so that's

00:49:55.425 --> 00:49:56.806
probably not as good of an argument as

00:49:56.826 --> 00:49:57.487
it used to be but

00:49:58.788 --> 00:49:59.027
Yeah,

00:49:59.068 --> 00:50:00.969
just kind of figure out what is important

00:50:01.010 --> 00:50:02.650
to them and how to signal meet that

00:50:02.690 --> 00:50:03.952
need is what I would recommend.

00:50:03.972 --> 00:50:11.358
I'm going to let Jonah continue to try

00:50:11.398 --> 00:50:13.380
to figure that out with the camera.

00:50:14.121 --> 00:50:15.242
But I think we're at the point where

00:50:15.262 --> 00:50:16.923
we're going to move on to site updates.

00:50:18.253 --> 00:50:19.454
And in a little bit,

00:50:19.755 --> 00:50:21.074
we're gonna talk about some stuff going on

00:50:21.094 --> 00:50:22.155
in the UK real quick.

00:50:22.496 --> 00:50:25.117
But first, here's what's been going on.

00:50:25.538 --> 00:50:26.358
Again, as usual,

00:50:26.398 --> 00:50:27.958
it's been a very busy week at Privacy

00:50:27.998 --> 00:50:28.278
Guides.

00:50:28.838 --> 00:50:29.679
We have a new video,

00:50:29.780 --> 00:50:30.760
if you guys did not know.

00:50:30.860 --> 00:50:32.181
Let me pull that up real quick.

00:50:33.041 --> 00:50:34.661
We have a video about passwords.

00:50:35.943 --> 00:50:39.103
So this video is aimed more at the

00:50:39.204 --> 00:50:40.465
average user that we were just talking

00:50:40.485 --> 00:50:40.985
about a minute ago,

00:50:41.005 --> 00:50:42.385
who's maybe not necessarily super

00:50:42.425 --> 00:50:43.626
concerned with privacy and security,

00:50:43.666 --> 00:50:45.507
but it also kind of addresses,

00:50:45.927 --> 00:50:46.347
there's been,

00:50:47.590 --> 00:50:48.592
In the past few years,

00:50:49.572 --> 00:50:51.356
I've seen a lot of people,

00:50:52.916 --> 00:50:54.498
when you talk about passwords and password

00:50:54.518 --> 00:50:54.940
security,

00:50:55.440 --> 00:50:57.382
a lot of people focus on the idea

00:50:57.443 --> 00:50:57.663
that,

00:51:00.197 --> 00:51:01.798
that like complexity doesn't matter at all

00:51:01.838 --> 00:51:02.199
anymore.

00:51:02.259 --> 00:51:03.119
And it's all about length.

00:51:03.380 --> 00:51:04.722
And so we kind of dive into that

00:51:04.942 --> 00:51:06.364
we kind of made this, again,

00:51:06.623 --> 00:51:08.206
we did make this video for everybody.

00:51:08.286 --> 00:51:09.306
So this might be a good video to

00:51:09.327 --> 00:51:10.407
share with like friends and family.

00:51:10.909 --> 00:51:13.231
But it also focuses on the whole like,

00:51:13.271 --> 00:51:13.431
well,

00:51:13.512 --> 00:51:14.952
why do people say that length matters

00:51:14.992 --> 00:51:15.273
more?

00:51:15.434 --> 00:51:16.574
And where did that advice come from?

00:51:16.635 --> 00:51:17.856
And how true is it?

00:51:17.956 --> 00:51:18.436
And so you know,

00:51:18.476 --> 00:51:21.619
we talk about a we talk about like

00:51:21.699 --> 00:51:21.719
a

00:51:23.128 --> 00:51:24.610
entropy and how to calculate that.

00:51:24.670 --> 00:51:25.130
I mean, roughly,

00:51:25.150 --> 00:51:26.110
it's really complicated stuff.

00:51:26.130 --> 00:51:27.052
And we try to keep it simple.

00:51:27.092 --> 00:51:27.931
But, you know,

00:51:28.132 --> 00:51:28.992
we try to break it all down.

00:51:29.012 --> 00:51:30.833
And of course, we talk about pass keys,

00:51:30.853 --> 00:51:31.894
because those are coming out now.

00:51:31.914 --> 00:51:36.197
And are those better than passwords per

00:51:36.237 --> 00:51:36.458
se?

00:51:36.518 --> 00:51:39.440
So yeah, I'm really proud of that video.

00:51:39.739 --> 00:51:41.760
I think it's got about almost three

00:51:41.802 --> 00:51:42.922
thousand views already.

00:51:43.242 --> 00:51:44.844
So definitely check that out if you

00:51:44.864 --> 00:51:46.304
haven't yet and share that with your

00:51:46.324 --> 00:51:48.585
friends and family to maybe help them

00:51:48.686 --> 00:51:49.927
understand passwords a little better.

00:51:50.286 --> 00:51:51.588
I tried not to get too technical with

00:51:51.608 --> 00:51:52.829
it, but it kind of explained like,

00:51:53.789 --> 00:51:56.132
Why passwords suck and why we need better

00:51:56.172 --> 00:51:56.791
solutions.

00:51:57.112 --> 00:51:58.373
And I hope we did that.

00:51:59.114 --> 00:52:00.835
And then just to let you all know,

00:52:00.856 --> 00:52:02.376
we have a new video in the works

00:52:02.396 --> 00:52:04.858
that is a response to the Plex price

00:52:04.878 --> 00:52:05.159
hike.

00:52:05.340 --> 00:52:08.021
So probably in a what is it?

00:52:08.481 --> 00:52:08.862
What time is it?

00:52:08.943 --> 00:52:10.023
It's the nineteenth.

00:52:10.063 --> 00:52:11.284
So probably in about ten days here,

00:52:11.324 --> 00:52:13.726
that's going to be a very popular topic.

00:52:14.047 --> 00:52:14.186
And

00:52:15.228 --> 00:52:16.369
We offer some people some,

00:52:16.809 --> 00:52:17.769
it's really not hard to guess,

00:52:17.849 --> 00:52:19.552
but I'm not going to say what our

00:52:19.592 --> 00:52:20.132
advice was,

00:52:20.172 --> 00:52:21.552
but there is some information there about

00:52:21.592 --> 00:52:24.255
how to respond to that.

00:52:24.295 --> 00:52:26.376
So there's that.

00:52:26.797 --> 00:52:28.498
I don't know if Jonah's got his camera

00:52:28.518 --> 00:52:29.980
working now.

00:52:30.039 --> 00:52:32.362
Here we go.

00:52:32.382 --> 00:52:33.342
We cannot hear you, sir.

00:52:33.382 --> 00:52:33.882
You are muted.

00:52:36.005 --> 00:52:36.764
I might be back.

00:52:36.985 --> 00:52:38.186
Well, I'm trying a different camera,

00:52:38.226 --> 00:52:39.327
so I don't know if it's going to

00:52:39.367 --> 00:52:39.407
be,

00:52:39.487 --> 00:52:41.548
I don't know if it's going to work

00:52:41.588 --> 00:52:42.670
any better, but we'll see.

00:52:43.284 --> 00:52:44.186
Well, so far you're back.

00:52:44.346 --> 00:52:45.407
So do you want to take over the,

00:52:45.427 --> 00:52:47.489
uh, the next portion of the site updates?

00:52:48.489 --> 00:52:48.829
Yes.

00:52:48.949 --> 00:52:49.911
Where are we?

00:52:49.951 --> 00:52:50.452
Let's see.

00:52:52.182 --> 00:52:55.425
um site updates i've been working mostly

00:52:55.766 --> 00:52:58.688
on the verified apps data set we've been

00:52:58.708 --> 00:52:59.969
getting a lot of submissions i had to

00:53:00.009 --> 00:53:03.132
solve some issues with getting them all

00:53:03.172 --> 00:53:04.612
working but i think those are all solved

00:53:04.632 --> 00:53:06.293
so we can add more apps again and

00:53:06.333 --> 00:53:09.275
push more updates to that other site

00:53:09.315 --> 00:53:12.579
updates have been continuing in in general

00:53:12.739 --> 00:53:14.380
free has been posting a lot of news

00:53:14.460 --> 00:53:16.021
articles as usual that you can see at

00:53:16.061 --> 00:53:17.021
privacyguides.org

00:53:18.222 --> 00:53:20.344
news so that's a great place to check

00:53:20.403 --> 00:53:24.527
out any privacy security whatever related

00:53:24.967 --> 00:53:27.849
uh news stories that you uh that you

00:53:27.869 --> 00:53:30.010
might not have seen that we don't cover

00:53:30.050 --> 00:53:31.411
on the show because we only have a

00:53:31.451 --> 00:53:33.793
limited number of time a limited amount of

00:53:33.853 --> 00:53:36.275
time can't talk today to cover all of

00:53:36.315 --> 00:53:39.677
these stories so that's a great place to

00:53:39.876 --> 00:53:41.137
stay up to date on all of this

00:53:41.157 --> 00:53:42.858
stuff as well in addition to our

00:53:43.539 --> 00:53:43.918
form.

00:53:44.639 --> 00:53:46.981
Other than those articles, though,

00:53:47.181 --> 00:53:49.202
and the stuff that I've kind of been

00:53:49.242 --> 00:53:50.164
working on this week,

00:53:50.224 --> 00:53:53.025
I don't know of any other major site

00:53:53.085 --> 00:53:57.269
updates that we have done so far.

00:53:59.050 --> 00:54:00.092
But, you know,

00:54:00.152 --> 00:54:01.032
things are always happening.

00:54:01.152 --> 00:54:02.572
I'm excited about all the video stuff that

00:54:02.594 --> 00:54:02.974
you're doing.

00:54:05.376 --> 00:54:06.335
All of the stuff that we do at

00:54:06.376 --> 00:54:06.936
Privacy Guides,

00:54:06.956 --> 00:54:08.077
that's made possible by

00:54:08.922 --> 00:54:10.922
Our supporters are members and one-time

00:54:10.943 --> 00:54:11.322
donors.

00:54:11.342 --> 00:54:13.143
You can sign up for a membership or

00:54:13.284 --> 00:54:15.726
donate at privacyguides.org slash donate.

00:54:15.786 --> 00:54:16.146
If you do,

00:54:16.186 --> 00:54:17.626
it would really help us out.

00:54:17.706 --> 00:54:19.367
You can also pick up some swag at

00:54:19.507 --> 00:54:22.409
shop.privacyguides.org like what Nate was

00:54:22.449 --> 00:54:23.309
just showing off.

00:54:23.730 --> 00:54:25.371
Privacy Guides is a nonprofit that

00:54:25.411 --> 00:54:27.512
researches and shares privacy-related

00:54:27.552 --> 00:54:28.092
information.

00:54:28.132 --> 00:54:30.134
We facilitate a community on our forum in

00:54:30.153 --> 00:54:32.355
Matrix where people can ask questions and

00:54:32.394 --> 00:54:34.516
get advice about staying private online

00:54:35.036 --> 00:54:37.737
and preserving their digital rights.

00:54:39.405 --> 00:54:39.746
So yeah,

00:54:40.507 --> 00:54:42.909
please support us if you are able to.

00:54:43.110 --> 00:54:44.490
It does really help.

00:54:45.052 --> 00:54:46.793
I think now we can move on to

00:54:47.394 --> 00:54:49.976
how burner phones are at risk in the

00:54:50.117 --> 00:54:52.519
U.S.

00:54:52.599 --> 00:54:52.920
Yeah,

00:54:52.940 --> 00:54:53.661
do you want to take that one or

00:54:53.681 --> 00:54:54.963
do you want me to?

00:54:55.262 --> 00:54:55.663
Yeah,

00:54:55.682 --> 00:54:56.824
I just had to pull it up again

00:54:56.864 --> 00:54:57.085
here.

00:54:57.105 --> 00:54:59.027
Okay.

00:55:00.679 --> 00:55:01.061
Perfect.

00:55:01.521 --> 00:55:02.362
This is from CNET.

00:55:17.523 --> 00:55:18.463
The article goes,

00:55:18.543 --> 00:55:20.704
the Federal Communications Commission is

00:55:20.764 --> 00:55:22.804
poised to begin forcing the country's

00:55:22.844 --> 00:55:24.403
telecom companies to collect names,

00:55:24.523 --> 00:55:25.003
addresses,

00:55:25.143 --> 00:55:26.824
and government identification numbers for

00:55:26.905 --> 00:55:28.425
every cell phone customer.

00:55:28.905 --> 00:55:30.686
If adopted, a likely outcome,

00:55:30.726 --> 00:55:32.606
given the FCC's current Republican

00:55:32.646 --> 00:55:33.686
majority who support it,

00:55:34.385 --> 00:55:36.586
the rules would effectively outlaw burner

00:55:36.606 --> 00:55:36.927
phones,

00:55:37.067 --> 00:55:39.067
devices that aren't specifically tied to

00:55:39.206 --> 00:55:40.186
identifying data,

00:55:40.286 --> 00:55:42.688
allowing the privacy-minded to maintain

00:55:42.708 --> 00:55:43.128
their information.

00:55:43.307 --> 00:55:43.889
anonymity.

00:55:44.829 --> 00:55:46.911
The proposal is called Know Your Customer

00:55:46.972 --> 00:55:47.632
Requirements,

00:55:47.873 --> 00:55:50.797
as a lot of people in the financial

00:55:50.936 --> 00:55:52.619
and cryptocurrency space are likely

00:55:53.000 --> 00:55:54.400
already very familiar with.

00:55:54.862 --> 00:55:57.063
And the FCC is framing it as a

00:55:57.103 --> 00:55:59.788
way to stop robocalls and scammers.

00:56:00.268 --> 00:56:01.929
Anyone with a phone can tell you the

00:56:01.969 --> 00:56:03.349
problem is very real.

00:56:03.670 --> 00:56:03.869
U.S.

00:56:03.909 --> 00:56:06.010
consumers receive an average of ten

00:56:06.150 --> 00:56:07.211
unwanted calls every week,

00:56:07.532 --> 00:56:09.072
a number that's grown at a compounded

00:56:09.112 --> 00:56:11.293
sixteen percent rate every year since

00:56:11.333 --> 00:56:12.054
twenty twenty three.

00:56:12.675 --> 00:56:13.875
I personally can tell you that is

00:56:14.076 --> 00:56:14.615
definitely true.

00:56:14.655 --> 00:56:16.876
I wish I only received ten a week.

00:56:17.336 --> 00:56:19.557
So, you know, that is a problem,

00:56:19.639 --> 00:56:22.360
but this certainly is not going to solve

00:56:22.380 --> 00:56:22.440
it.

00:56:22.480 --> 00:56:23.740
It doesn't address the core

00:56:24.704 --> 00:56:27.568
problems with the telecom system in

00:56:27.688 --> 00:56:28.190
general.

00:56:29.072 --> 00:56:31.054
But as the article rightfully notes,

00:56:31.255 --> 00:56:33.219
it punishes those who use burner phones,

00:56:33.278 --> 00:56:34.782
including journalists, travelers,

00:56:34.842 --> 00:56:35.603
whistleblowers,

00:56:35.782 --> 00:56:37.746
and domestic abuse survivors.

00:56:39.331 --> 00:56:42.313
The senior legislative associate at the

00:56:42.393 --> 00:56:44.313
Electronic Frontier Foundation said that

00:56:44.353 --> 00:56:46.155
collecting all of this data is horrible

00:56:46.195 --> 00:56:47.576
for everyone's privacy.

00:56:47.675 --> 00:56:48.416
You have to ask,

00:56:48.456 --> 00:56:50.016
do you trust the government to have that

00:56:50.077 --> 00:56:52.097
information at this current moment in

00:56:52.157 --> 00:56:52.438
time?

00:56:52.757 --> 00:56:54.898
A government that has proven that they are

00:56:54.958 --> 00:56:57.260
trying to centralize and weaponize your

00:56:57.599 --> 00:56:58.099
information.

00:56:59.547 --> 00:57:01.228
So yeah, this is a big problem.

00:57:01.309 --> 00:57:04.568
We've been talking a bit more about cell

00:57:05.369 --> 00:57:08.471
towers in privacy and cell companies and

00:57:08.510 --> 00:57:09.871
privacy and all of that stuff.

00:57:09.911 --> 00:57:11.431
I think at least in the United States

00:57:11.490 --> 00:57:12.092
recently,

00:57:12.512 --> 00:57:15.373
we talked about CAPE a few weeks ago,

00:57:15.672 --> 00:57:18.753
and they have been very opposed to this

00:57:18.853 --> 00:57:19.074
bill.

00:57:19.114 --> 00:57:20.873
And they've been talking, you know,

00:57:20.934 --> 00:57:22.494
trying to lobby against this a bit,

00:57:22.974 --> 00:57:23.534
because they

00:57:24.235 --> 00:57:25.554
don't collect any of this information at

00:57:25.596 --> 00:57:25.956
signup.

00:57:26.396 --> 00:57:27.376
I think this is going to be a

00:57:27.416 --> 00:57:31.938
big problem for other companies who have a

00:57:31.998 --> 00:57:34.978
similar model like Nate I know has talked

00:57:35.119 --> 00:57:37.300
about mint mobile and how you can just

00:57:37.360 --> 00:57:39.039
pick up those SIM cards in cash.

00:57:39.099 --> 00:57:40.181
Now they're going to have to collect a

00:57:40.221 --> 00:57:41.081
lot more information.

00:57:41.721 --> 00:57:43.842
Generally with this data collection stuff.

00:57:45.409 --> 00:57:47.233
Companies don't want to do it,

00:57:47.273 --> 00:57:47.994
at least some of them,

00:57:48.054 --> 00:57:49.876
especially if they can't monetize that

00:57:49.916 --> 00:57:52.039
data in the same way that big tech

00:57:52.079 --> 00:57:55.543
companies with advertising programs can

00:57:55.583 --> 00:57:56.204
monetize it.

00:58:00.161 --> 00:58:00.742
It's a risk.

00:58:00.782 --> 00:58:02.483
It's a business liability for them to have

00:58:02.523 --> 00:58:03.123
all of this data,

00:58:03.164 --> 00:58:05.105
especially as data breaches become more

00:58:05.144 --> 00:58:05.525
common.

00:58:05.686 --> 00:58:07.527
And now the government is basically

00:58:07.706 --> 00:58:10.489
mandating every single company involved in

00:58:11.110 --> 00:58:13.052
your telecommunications to collect all of

00:58:13.072 --> 00:58:15.273
this sensitive information about you.

00:58:15.693 --> 00:58:19.277
So it's problematic for sure.

00:58:22.324 --> 00:58:24.344
It's a similar problem to we've talked

00:58:24.364 --> 00:58:27.465
about like voter IDs laws in the US.

00:58:27.686 --> 00:58:29.746
And that is also the sort of thing

00:58:30.327 --> 00:58:33.168
where this mandatory ID system doesn't

00:58:33.208 --> 00:58:33.788
make a lot of sense,

00:58:33.807 --> 00:58:35.989
but it will harm a ton of people.

00:58:36.309 --> 00:58:38.329
A lot of people in the US do

00:58:38.369 --> 00:58:42.530
not have like a driver's license or a

00:58:42.570 --> 00:58:45.092
government issued ID in general because

00:58:45.112 --> 00:58:45.992
it's not legal.

00:58:46.172 --> 00:58:48.574
required, which if these laws passed,

00:58:48.634 --> 00:58:51.215
could mean that a lot of people,

00:58:52.016 --> 00:58:53.938
millions of people in the U.S.

00:58:53.978 --> 00:58:56.199
would not be able to access phone service

00:58:56.800 --> 00:58:57.340
at all.

00:58:58.661 --> 00:58:59.882
I think this is mentioned in the article.

00:58:59.902 --> 00:59:01.202
Let me scroll down and find it.

00:59:02.704 --> 00:59:04.304
Yeah, it says as of twenty twenty four,

00:59:04.364 --> 00:59:06.947
nearly twenty one million voting age U.S.

00:59:06.967 --> 00:59:08.347
citizens don't have a current driver's

00:59:08.367 --> 00:59:10.710
license with black and Hispanic Americans

00:59:10.750 --> 00:59:13.532
disproportionately less likely to have

00:59:13.652 --> 00:59:13.751
one.

00:59:14.253 --> 00:59:14.452
So

00:59:16.036 --> 00:59:17.777
think that's a very problematic thing it

00:59:17.817 --> 00:59:20.297
goes against you know there's been a

00:59:20.338 --> 00:59:24.280
long-standing thing historically the the

00:59:24.320 --> 00:59:26.221
republican party would always kind of

00:59:26.300 --> 00:59:30.822
fight for or fight against government ids

00:59:30.862 --> 00:59:32.702
and government mandated ids they fought

00:59:32.782 --> 00:59:35.965
against like the real id mandate uh that

00:59:36.025 --> 00:59:39.405
required these stronger ids and government

00:59:39.445 --> 00:59:40.746
issued ids for travel

00:59:42.384 --> 00:59:43.105
Now, of course,

00:59:43.144 --> 00:59:45.226
they seem to be going completely in the

00:59:45.268 --> 00:59:45.788
other direction.

00:59:45.827 --> 00:59:47.851
It seems like everyone in the government

00:59:47.891 --> 00:59:49.391
at the moment is going in the other

00:59:49.411 --> 00:59:49.793
direction.

00:59:49.833 --> 00:59:51.934
But this sort of thing is not a

00:59:51.994 --> 00:59:53.878
popular change by any means,

00:59:54.018 --> 00:59:56.199
and it is going to affect a lot

00:59:56.239 --> 00:59:56.621
of people.

00:59:57.181 --> 00:59:57.382
So...

00:59:59.338 --> 01:00:01.059
Yeah, ultimately, at the end of the day,

01:00:01.099 --> 01:00:03.820
there are a lot of technical solutions to

01:00:03.840 --> 01:00:05.340
this that cell companies should be

01:00:05.380 --> 01:00:06.961
implementing that can stop the spam

01:00:07.001 --> 01:00:07.362
problem.

01:00:07.561 --> 01:00:10.384
This is pretty unlikely to stop any of

01:00:10.423 --> 01:00:11.284
the spam issues.

01:00:11.364 --> 01:00:11.905
In my opinion,

01:00:11.925 --> 01:00:14.126
it's kind of kind of as simple as

01:00:14.166 --> 01:00:14.385
that.

01:00:15.786 --> 01:00:17.628
So yeah, Nate,

01:00:17.768 --> 01:00:19.889
anything else you wanted to mention?

01:00:21.536 --> 01:00:22.898
um yeah i just want to drive home

01:00:22.958 --> 01:00:25.059
that that point i mean jordan said it

01:00:25.099 --> 01:00:26.621
hasn't cut down on spams and scams in

01:00:26.661 --> 01:00:28.302
countries that have implemented so we have

01:00:28.382 --> 01:00:30.664
evidence it doesn't work um not like the

01:00:30.684 --> 01:00:32.106
government ever cares about evidence any

01:00:32.146 --> 01:00:34.007
government for the record but yeah that's

01:00:34.027 --> 01:00:35.429
kind of my thought too because aren't most

01:00:35.469 --> 01:00:37.329
of these scams like most of these scams

01:00:37.710 --> 01:00:39.231
okay first of all um i'm gonna go

01:00:39.251 --> 01:00:40.393
ahead and get on my little soapbox here

01:00:40.413 --> 01:00:41.634
for a minute and be like a what

01:00:41.753 --> 01:00:43.775
are they what's the joke like a bleeding

01:00:44.016 --> 01:00:45.336
bleeding bleeding heart liberal or

01:00:45.356 --> 01:00:48.318
whatever um a lot of these scammers and

01:00:48.358 --> 01:00:48.759
spammers

01:00:49.659 --> 01:00:50.701
not all obviously,

01:00:50.760 --> 01:00:52.141
but a significant number are actually

01:00:52.181 --> 01:00:53.844
human trafficking victims in places like

01:00:53.884 --> 01:00:54.523
Southeast Asia.

01:00:54.844 --> 01:00:56.226
So personal opinion,

01:00:56.646 --> 01:00:57.947
I'm not really a fan of like messing

01:00:57.967 --> 01:01:00.088
with these people because like

01:01:01.452 --> 01:01:02.813
it's just like i hear the argument that

01:01:02.833 --> 01:01:04.275
the more time you spend trolling them the

01:01:04.315 --> 01:01:05.476
less time they're actually scamming

01:01:05.536 --> 01:01:07.157
somebody who's going to fall for it and

01:01:07.358 --> 01:01:08.619
i'm not necessarily giving them a free

01:01:08.659 --> 01:01:10.382
pass but like these people are going to

01:01:10.402 --> 01:01:11.702
be taken back to their rooms and beaten

01:01:12.003 --> 01:01:13.125
if they don't meet their quotas which

01:01:13.184 --> 01:01:14.405
again i'm not saying like you should help

01:01:14.445 --> 01:01:15.867
them meet their quotas but my point is

01:01:15.887 --> 01:01:17.429
like why make a terrible situation worse

01:01:17.449 --> 01:01:19.030
um i i used to have a co-worker

01:01:19.070 --> 01:01:20.192
at my last job that would like yell

01:01:20.231 --> 01:01:21.572
at spam callers and it's like please don't

01:01:21.592 --> 01:01:23.355
do that around me but anyways um

01:01:24.235 --> 01:01:26.197
So like point being where I'm going with

01:01:26.217 --> 01:01:27.300
that and what inspired this thought

01:01:27.320 --> 01:01:28.780
originally is a lot of them aren't even

01:01:28.800 --> 01:01:29.661
located in the US.

01:01:30.282 --> 01:01:30.603
So like,

01:01:30.704 --> 01:01:31.585
how is this going to stop them?

01:01:32.574 --> 01:01:33.675
Like they don't need to get an ID

01:01:33.775 --> 01:01:33.934
there.

01:01:34.275 --> 01:01:35.956
A lot of them are spoofing phone calls.

01:01:35.976 --> 01:01:38.277
And I know that because I,

01:01:38.396 --> 01:01:40.137
it comes and goes in, in popularity,

01:01:40.579 --> 01:01:41.978
but I have in the past gotten a

01:01:42.018 --> 01:01:43.360
lot of phone calls at various,

01:01:43.420 --> 01:01:44.240
my pseudo numbers.

01:01:44.740 --> 01:01:46.041
And when I pick it up, you know,

01:01:46.081 --> 01:01:47.262
and especially like I had a phone number

01:01:47.282 --> 01:01:48.063
specifically for work.

01:01:48.083 --> 01:01:49.264
So I had to pick it up because

01:01:49.284 --> 01:01:49.583
you know,

01:01:49.664 --> 01:01:50.744
there were always people that I didn't

01:01:50.764 --> 01:01:52.264
have saved in my phone calling me a

01:01:52.284 --> 01:01:54.206
lot of the time they would call and

01:01:54.326 --> 01:01:54.465
like,

01:01:54.507 --> 01:01:55.367
I'd pick it up and they'd be like,

01:01:55.387 --> 01:01:56.307
yeah, I got a call from this number.

01:01:56.387 --> 01:01:56.708
And I'm like,

01:01:57.514 --> 01:01:58.916
It wasn't me because I haven't called

01:01:58.956 --> 01:02:00.177
anyone all day or even some of my

01:02:00.217 --> 01:02:01.259
lesser used numbers that I stopped

01:02:01.318 --> 01:02:02.019
answering after a while.

01:02:02.400 --> 01:02:02.960
You know, they'd like,

01:02:03.101 --> 01:02:03.840
I got a call from this number.

01:02:03.860 --> 01:02:04.081
I'm like,

01:02:04.141 --> 01:02:05.242
I haven't called anybody in like three

01:02:05.282 --> 01:02:05.722
months, dude.

01:02:06.204 --> 01:02:06.543
I don't know.

01:02:06.724 --> 01:02:09.106
Like it's somebody spoofing my phone

01:02:09.146 --> 01:02:09.407
number.

01:02:09.586 --> 01:02:09.987
So like,

01:02:10.708 --> 01:02:12.449
how is this going to fix that?

01:02:12.550 --> 01:02:13.530
How is this going to solve that?

01:02:13.811 --> 01:02:16.534
Like, it's it's so dumb.

01:02:16.554 --> 01:02:18.215
It's like and yes, it's annoying.

01:02:18.356 --> 01:02:18.876
I get that.

01:02:19.456 --> 01:02:21.277
But this isn't going to solve anything.

01:02:21.317 --> 01:02:23.018
This is just the classic politicians

01:02:23.038 --> 01:02:24.018
trying to look like they're doing

01:02:24.077 --> 01:02:24.458
something.

01:02:25.057 --> 01:02:26.197
And it doesn't matter if it actually

01:02:26.217 --> 01:02:26.478
works.

01:02:26.518 --> 01:02:28.119
It's just the illusion of motion.

01:02:28.259 --> 01:02:30.579
So yeah, it's really frustrating.

01:02:31.619 --> 01:02:33.659
I actually hardly get any spam calls,

01:02:33.739 --> 01:02:35.119
and I'm really starting to wonder why that

01:02:35.179 --> 01:02:35.400
is.

01:02:35.920 --> 01:02:39.320
I don't know if that's because I pay

01:02:39.340 --> 01:02:40.820
for a data removal service like Easy

01:02:40.840 --> 01:02:41.342
Opt-Outs,

01:02:41.382 --> 01:02:42.541
or I don't know if that's because I...

01:02:43.757 --> 01:02:45.318
because I use a lot of fake phone

01:02:45.338 --> 01:02:45.657
numbers.

01:02:46.378 --> 01:02:47.780
I don't remember it off the top of

01:02:47.800 --> 01:02:50.141
my head.

01:02:50.161 --> 01:02:51.161
Is my password manager open?

01:02:51.262 --> 01:02:51.621
It might be.

01:02:52.422 --> 01:02:52.762
Oh, it is.

01:02:52.782 --> 01:02:55.284
Oh, God, what is it?

01:02:55.324 --> 01:02:55.804
There is,

01:02:55.824 --> 01:02:57.485
and I'm sharing this one with you guys

01:02:57.505 --> 01:02:58.226
because it's hilarious.

01:02:59.806 --> 01:03:01.748
Two, four, eight, four, three, four, five,

01:03:01.768 --> 01:03:02.608
five, zero, eight.

01:03:03.108 --> 01:03:04.670
That phone number plays never gonna give

01:03:04.690 --> 01:03:05.550
you up on an infinite loop.

01:03:06.422 --> 01:03:09.403
So if I ever have to provide a

01:03:09.423 --> 01:03:11.184
phone number and I know for certain they

01:03:11.204 --> 01:03:11.605
are never,

01:03:11.704 --> 01:03:12.626
ever going to have to call me,

01:03:13.065 --> 01:03:14.385
I like using that one personally.

01:03:14.726 --> 01:03:16.387
But yeah, so I don't know,

01:03:16.686 --> 01:03:17.347
maybe that's just me,

01:03:17.367 --> 01:03:18.387
but I like hardly get anything.

01:03:18.407 --> 01:03:20.349
But I had family visiting last week and

01:03:20.429 --> 01:03:23.230
one of them like two or three times,

01:03:23.250 --> 01:03:24.431
they were only here for like five days

01:03:24.451 --> 01:03:25.371
and two or three times,

01:03:25.471 --> 01:03:26.692
one of them kept picking up their phone

01:03:27.231 --> 01:03:28.231
and then immediately hanging up and

01:03:28.251 --> 01:03:28.992
they're like, scam call.

01:03:29.492 --> 01:03:29.893
And it's like,

01:03:31.152 --> 01:03:32.333
I get a few around election time,

01:03:32.353 --> 01:03:32.893
but that's about it.

01:03:32.932 --> 01:03:34.074
So anyways, yeah, I don't know.

01:03:35.155 --> 01:03:36.594
There is a solution clearly.

01:03:36.614 --> 01:03:37.315
I don't know what it is,

01:03:37.356 --> 01:03:39.876
but I found it and it wasn't requiring

01:03:39.918 --> 01:03:40.898
everybody to get an ID.

01:03:41.038 --> 01:03:42.818
So yeah, this is terribly flawed.

01:03:43.380 --> 01:03:45.101
The last thing I wanna say is I'm

01:03:45.121 --> 01:03:46.541
gonna put it back up on screen here

01:03:46.561 --> 01:03:47.021
for a second.

01:03:47.081 --> 01:03:48.362
Please check out this article.

01:03:48.902 --> 01:03:50.682
Because it does say that rules are open

01:03:50.702 --> 01:03:52.204
for public comment until June,

01:03:52.224 --> 01:03:53.784
which is six days away as we're streaming

01:03:53.804 --> 01:03:54.003
this.

01:03:54.643 --> 01:03:56.324
And there is a link on where to

01:03:56.364 --> 01:03:56.744
go.

01:03:56.885 --> 01:03:58.204
There is all the information you will need

01:03:58.224 --> 01:03:58.985
to leave a comment.

01:03:59.264 --> 01:04:00.965
They even have examples of comments that

01:04:00.985 --> 01:04:02.766
they recommend that you emulate.

01:04:02.945 --> 01:04:04.166
So yeah.

01:04:05.347 --> 01:04:07.047
Will the FCC just totally ignore us?

01:04:07.246 --> 01:04:07.686
Probably.

01:04:07.927 --> 01:04:08.827
They've done it in the past,

01:04:08.927 --> 01:04:10.088
but I mean,

01:04:10.108 --> 01:04:11.148
it's better than just doing nothing,

01:04:11.208 --> 01:04:11.447
right?

01:04:11.648 --> 01:04:17.050
So yeah.

01:04:17.130 --> 01:04:18.329
I think you're muted again, Jonah.

01:04:21.047 --> 01:04:21.706
Sorry about that.

01:04:22.268 --> 01:04:23.947
That section about leaving a comment to

01:04:23.967 --> 01:04:25.668
the FCC was exactly the last thing I

01:04:25.688 --> 01:04:26.369
wanted to point out,

01:04:26.409 --> 01:04:28.110
so I'm glad you mentioned that.

01:04:28.289 --> 01:04:28.931
If you're in the U.S.,

01:04:28.971 --> 01:04:31.692
definitely check out this article because

01:04:31.711 --> 01:04:35.153
they have a link and everything to do

01:04:35.193 --> 01:04:35.434
that.

01:04:35.454 --> 01:04:37.594
Yeah.

01:04:37.635 --> 01:04:38.695
Chicken Little says you have to give a

01:04:38.735 --> 01:04:39.474
name and address.

01:04:39.615 --> 01:04:43.496
I mean, devil's advocate here.

01:04:43.577 --> 01:04:44.617
Do they verify it?

01:04:45.838 --> 01:04:46.998
Maybe you could just leave a zip code

01:04:47.018 --> 01:04:48.420
or leave a PO box maybe.

01:04:48.519 --> 01:04:48.780
Yeah.

01:04:49.800 --> 01:04:49.960
I mean,

01:04:49.981 --> 01:04:51.282
as long as you're not threatening anybody,

01:04:51.342 --> 01:04:52.103
I don't think they're going to.

01:04:52.123 --> 01:04:52.842
And that's, you know,

01:04:52.862 --> 01:04:54.003
that's something I always have to remind

01:04:54.023 --> 01:04:54.844
people here is like,

01:04:55.264 --> 01:04:56.525
please don't be a jerk.

01:04:56.686 --> 01:04:57.467
Don't threaten people.

01:04:57.507 --> 01:04:58.827
Because if your comment is just like,

01:04:59.849 --> 01:05:00.869
you know, like you guys suck.

01:05:00.889 --> 01:05:01.909
You're all pedophiles.

01:05:01.949 --> 01:05:02.931
This is evil, blah, blah, blah.

01:05:02.951 --> 01:05:03.791
Like they're not going to listen to your

01:05:03.811 --> 01:05:04.132
comment.

01:05:04.431 --> 01:05:05.132
But if you like the one,

01:05:05.293 --> 01:05:06.594
the one they said here is like, um,

01:05:07.054 --> 01:05:08.094
A scammer might try to steal my

01:05:08.114 --> 01:05:08.514
information,

01:05:08.534 --> 01:05:09.795
but that does not justify a process

01:05:09.815 --> 01:05:10.914
through which the federal government would

01:05:10.934 --> 01:05:11.576
definitely steal it.

01:05:11.936 --> 01:05:12.916
Even that one, in my opinion,

01:05:12.936 --> 01:05:13.635
is a little bit harsh.

01:05:13.675 --> 01:05:14.597
Just something like what I said.

01:05:14.677 --> 01:05:14.836
Like,

01:05:15.137 --> 01:05:16.556
many of these spam calls are coming from

01:05:16.677 --> 01:05:17.097
overseas,

01:05:17.137 --> 01:05:18.518
so I fail to see how this would

01:05:18.737 --> 01:05:19.717
actually do anything.

01:05:19.797 --> 01:05:19.978
Like,

01:05:20.358 --> 01:05:22.039
just something that's actually thought out

01:05:22.119 --> 01:05:24.420
and logical, like you're not, you know,

01:05:24.440 --> 01:05:26.219
like you've seen sunlight in the last six

01:05:26.239 --> 01:05:27.201
days or something.

01:05:27.320 --> 01:05:28.760
So, I don't know.

01:05:28.800 --> 01:05:30.702
Just try not to be mean to people.

01:05:30.722 --> 01:05:31.382
That's what I'm getting at.

01:05:31.641 --> 01:05:32.702
You catch more flies with honey than

01:05:32.722 --> 01:05:32.922
vinegar.

01:05:32.943 --> 01:05:33.043
Okay.

01:05:34.813 --> 01:05:38.233
Something I haven't seen for sure

01:05:38.253 --> 01:05:38.775
mentioned yet,

01:05:38.795 --> 01:05:41.275
but I believe is true is I think

01:05:41.315 --> 01:05:43.856
this only applies to getting a phone

01:05:43.896 --> 01:05:44.177
number.

01:05:44.536 --> 01:05:45.956
I'm curious about two things.

01:05:45.996 --> 01:05:49.159
I'm curious whether or how this is going

01:05:49.179 --> 01:05:52.619
to impact VoIP providers like MySudo,

01:05:52.639 --> 01:05:53.480
for example.

01:05:54.041 --> 01:05:57.561
I'm also curious whether cell companies

01:05:57.621 --> 01:05:59.782
who do want to have like a privacy

01:05:59.822 --> 01:06:01.744
first service would be able to

01:06:04.422 --> 01:06:07.864
maybe sell data-only lines, for example,

01:06:07.884 --> 01:06:10.364
and then you could get a VoIP number

01:06:10.425 --> 01:06:12.706
or something else to handle the phone

01:06:12.726 --> 01:06:14.827
stuff if that ends up being an easier

01:06:14.847 --> 01:06:16.626
solution to get a phone number

01:06:16.666 --> 01:06:17.166
anonymously.

01:06:17.427 --> 01:06:19.208
I don't know if that's true or if

01:06:19.248 --> 01:06:20.027
that would work or not.

01:06:20.608 --> 01:06:20.989
Personally,

01:06:21.349 --> 01:06:24.710
I wouldn't mind a data-only SIM myself.

01:06:24.750 --> 01:06:26.190
They're just harder to come by,

01:06:26.230 --> 01:06:28.990
but I don't really need a lot of

01:06:29.010 --> 01:06:29.931
the functions at a full...

01:06:31.172 --> 01:06:31.871
phone line provides.

01:06:31.911 --> 01:06:33.213
But of course, that's just me.

01:06:33.253 --> 01:06:33.672
Obviously,

01:06:33.693 --> 01:06:35.693
a lot of people really need a phone

01:06:35.733 --> 01:06:37.094
number to call and text,

01:06:37.114 --> 01:06:38.333
so that's not going to work for everyone

01:06:38.793 --> 01:06:39.173
at all.

01:06:39.293 --> 01:06:40.235
I think this is a big problem,

01:06:40.335 --> 01:06:44.275
but I am interested in seeing whether or

01:06:44.295 --> 01:06:46.996
not any of that stuff happens.

01:06:47.016 --> 01:06:47.175
Yeah,

01:06:47.215 --> 01:06:49.597
that is another thing towards the bottom

01:06:49.637 --> 01:06:50.697
they pointed out is like, you know,

01:06:50.717 --> 01:06:52.018
if you switch to something like Signal,

01:06:53.043 --> 01:06:55.364
They say Telegram, which is not encrypted.

01:06:55.784 --> 01:06:56.525
Screw Telegram.

01:06:56.905 --> 01:06:58.387
They say turn off location tracking.

01:06:58.746 --> 01:07:00.208
They say use two separate phones,

01:07:00.248 --> 01:07:01.248
but I don't know what's that supposed to

01:07:01.288 --> 01:07:01.527
solve.

01:07:01.608 --> 01:07:03.429
But I will say that that is something

01:07:03.449 --> 01:07:05.250
that we recommend on Privacy Guides is

01:07:05.309 --> 01:07:07.952
like on the website is whenever you're not

01:07:08.112 --> 01:07:08.911
using your phone,

01:07:08.972 --> 01:07:09.873
like if you're at home and you're on

01:07:09.913 --> 01:07:10.333
Wi-Fi,

01:07:10.733 --> 01:07:12.153
put your phone in airplane mode because at

01:07:12.193 --> 01:07:13.454
least that like kills the connection to

01:07:13.474 --> 01:07:14.014
the towers.

01:07:14.135 --> 01:07:15.795
And like there's definitely ways to

01:07:15.976 --> 01:07:17.916
eliminate the amount of data that is tied

01:07:17.956 --> 01:07:18.577
to your name.

01:07:19.016 --> 01:07:20.257
Even if something like this were to go

01:07:20.297 --> 01:07:21.157
through and be required,

01:07:21.277 --> 01:07:22.039
like you could still...

01:07:24.019 --> 01:07:24.619
And, again,

01:07:24.739 --> 01:07:26.340
I understand there are very high-threat

01:07:26.360 --> 01:07:27.121
model people here.

01:07:27.141 --> 01:07:28.322
The article even points that out.

01:07:28.342 --> 01:07:29.722
There's whistleblowers.

01:07:29.742 --> 01:07:30.402
There's journalists.

01:07:30.422 --> 01:07:32.545
There's people trying to escape abuse

01:07:32.565 --> 01:07:33.164
situations.

01:07:33.304 --> 01:07:34.806
I'm not trying to downplay that.

01:07:35.206 --> 01:07:36.246
But for the average person,

01:07:36.427 --> 01:07:37.447
even in a situation like this,

01:07:37.467 --> 01:07:39.068
there are still ways to reduce the amount

01:07:39.088 --> 01:07:40.989
of data going back to these companies for

01:07:41.009 --> 01:07:41.188
sure.

01:07:42.867 --> 01:07:43.447
Um, but yeah,

01:07:43.467 --> 01:07:44.728
it's good to hear Cape is fighting back

01:07:44.748 --> 01:07:45.190
against this.

01:07:45.269 --> 01:07:46.429
I hope other companies will too.

01:07:46.449 --> 01:07:47.231
And that was my thought too.

01:07:47.251 --> 01:07:49.492
Cause I know my pseudo had to, um,

01:07:49.512 --> 01:07:51.853
they did start verifying ID for UK phone

01:07:51.893 --> 01:07:53.554
numbers, um,

01:07:53.675 --> 01:07:55.096
a long while back when that became a

01:07:55.135 --> 01:07:55.396
thing.

01:07:55.516 --> 01:07:57.556
So yeah, that is a,

01:07:57.577 --> 01:07:58.697
that is a good question for sure.

01:07:58.898 --> 01:07:59.918
And unfortunately I don't have any

01:07:59.998 --> 01:08:03.501
answers, but that is crazy.

01:08:03.581 --> 01:08:04.822
Just that thing that you pointed out at

01:08:04.842 --> 01:08:05.961
the end about telegram.

01:08:06.063 --> 01:08:07.583
It's crazy that they say it offers end

01:08:07.603 --> 01:08:08.284
to end encrypted.

01:08:09.425 --> 01:08:10.067
Encryption on all messages.

01:08:10.086 --> 01:08:12.210
Telegram has the best marketing ever, man,

01:08:12.230 --> 01:08:13.853
because they have totally convinced people

01:08:13.893 --> 01:08:14.733
that they're a good app.

01:08:16.055 --> 01:08:16.697
That is crazy.

01:08:18.435 --> 01:08:19.556
I need to write another blog post about

01:08:19.596 --> 01:08:23.640
why Telegram sucks.

01:08:24.520 --> 01:08:25.661
I'm going to backtrack a little bit

01:08:25.680 --> 01:08:27.703
because we had a few questions since we

01:08:27.762 --> 01:08:31.204
left the site updates.

01:08:32.126 --> 01:08:33.747
So Limitless asked if we had any videos

01:08:33.766 --> 01:08:35.068
or topics about hardware keys.

01:08:35.108 --> 01:08:36.229
We haven't made any videos yet.

01:08:36.248 --> 01:08:37.529
I don't even know if we have that

01:08:37.550 --> 01:08:39.091
written down as an idea,

01:08:39.171 --> 01:08:40.612
but I'd totally be down to at some

01:08:40.652 --> 01:08:40.912
point.

01:08:41.372 --> 01:08:42.752
We do have a page on the website

01:08:42.792 --> 01:08:44.194
though that kind of talks about them a

01:08:44.213 --> 01:08:45.515
little bit and which ones we recommend.

01:08:45.595 --> 01:08:46.836
So definitely check that out for now.

01:08:52.018 --> 01:08:52.457
Let's see.

01:08:52.677 --> 01:08:54.018
Chicken Little said to check the comments

01:08:54.057 --> 01:08:55.238
on the passwords video because there's

01:08:55.259 --> 01:08:55.918
some critiques.

01:08:56.418 --> 01:08:57.338
We'll check those out.

01:08:58.100 --> 01:09:00.359
I try not to check the comments too

01:09:00.539 --> 01:09:01.640
often because...

01:09:04.323 --> 01:09:05.724
I mean, look, people read the comments.

01:09:05.743 --> 01:09:06.664
I'm not going to lie to you guys.

01:09:06.685 --> 01:09:06.925
And like,

01:09:06.944 --> 01:09:08.904
when some people get really worked up

01:09:08.984 --> 01:09:10.525
about small details,

01:09:10.645 --> 01:09:11.945
I don't mind being corrected again.

01:09:11.985 --> 01:09:12.926
It's what I said a minute ago.

01:09:12.966 --> 01:09:14.186
It's one thing to leave a comment and

01:09:14.226 --> 01:09:16.266
be like, Hey, you were like,

01:09:16.287 --> 01:09:17.367
you were wrong about this thing.

01:09:17.828 --> 01:09:18.268
It's okay.

01:09:18.368 --> 01:09:19.047
Actually, I'm going to,

01:09:19.087 --> 01:09:19.828
I'm going to mention this.

01:09:20.028 --> 01:09:21.108
Um, so over on the new oil,

01:09:21.207 --> 01:09:22.828
I just put out a video about tutor

01:09:22.868 --> 01:09:23.088
drive.

01:09:23.708 --> 01:09:24.328
And in the video,

01:09:24.550 --> 01:09:26.350
I mistakenly said that quantum computers

01:09:26.371 --> 01:09:27.591
are replacing classical computers.

01:09:28.171 --> 01:09:29.412
And one person left a comment,

01:09:30.012 --> 01:09:31.394
and they were still kind of like a

01:09:31.413 --> 01:09:32.354
little bit obnoxious about it,

01:09:32.675 --> 01:09:33.855
but they left a comment and they were

01:09:33.895 --> 01:09:34.956
like, that's not true.

01:09:35.476 --> 01:09:36.997
Quantum computers have very specific use

01:09:37.018 --> 01:09:37.438
cases,

01:09:37.537 --> 01:09:39.338
but they're not going to replace classical

01:09:39.378 --> 01:09:39.760
computers.

01:09:39.960 --> 01:09:41.240
And as much as it did make me

01:09:41.261 --> 01:09:41.881
a little defensive,

01:09:42.320 --> 01:09:43.582
I replied and I was like, all right,

01:09:43.601 --> 01:09:44.363
thank you for the correction.

01:09:44.983 --> 01:09:45.884
I apologize.

01:09:46.543 --> 01:09:48.024
Somebody else made the same correction,

01:09:48.045 --> 01:09:49.025
but they literally said like,

01:09:49.065 --> 01:09:50.426
you've lost all credibility and have no

01:09:50.506 --> 01:09:51.426
idea what you're talking about.

01:09:51.447 --> 01:09:51.967
And it's just like...

01:09:52.667 --> 01:09:55.770
cool screw you too like it's it can

01:09:55.789 --> 01:09:57.652
be difficult to take criticism when it's

01:09:58.471 --> 01:10:01.675
so harshly presented so like i definitely

01:10:01.694 --> 01:10:03.536
do appreciate criticism and and

01:10:03.555 --> 01:10:05.578
suggestions to do better it's just it gets

01:10:05.597 --> 01:10:08.880
a little bit exhausting when it's so just

01:10:08.899 --> 01:10:10.720
thrown out there so dramatically and so

01:10:10.780 --> 01:10:13.002
like like i'm a terrible person because i

01:10:13.023 --> 01:10:15.444
misspoke it's so but yeah we'll we'll

01:10:15.484 --> 01:10:16.605
check those because i mean again i do

01:10:16.706 --> 01:10:17.685
i do want to make get better at

01:10:17.706 --> 01:10:18.247
videos so

01:10:18.708 --> 01:10:20.890
yeah the the tricky thing about comments

01:10:20.911 --> 01:10:22.592
on that video specifically i haven't read

01:10:23.012 --> 01:10:25.234
all of them so like i don't i

01:10:25.274 --> 01:10:27.176
don't know if there's some good critiques

01:10:27.256 --> 01:10:28.198
like you said we'll have to check it

01:10:28.238 --> 01:10:30.158
out but i did when that video came

01:10:30.198 --> 01:10:31.079
out i looked at a lot of the

01:10:31.100 --> 01:10:32.421
comments and a lot of them were also

01:10:32.480 --> 01:10:35.283
like things that were addressed in the

01:10:35.323 --> 01:10:38.386
video oh which happens which happens a lot

01:10:38.447 --> 01:10:39.747
in the comments it's like okay if you

01:10:39.787 --> 01:10:42.650
watch the whole thing um that is answered

01:10:42.730 --> 01:10:44.152
but that's a commonly

01:10:45.936 --> 01:10:47.398
That's not very common for a lot of

01:10:47.438 --> 01:10:49.158
YouTube viewers to do, unfortunately.

01:10:49.279 --> 01:10:51.220
So we get a lot of comments like

01:10:51.260 --> 01:10:51.439
that.

01:10:53.180 --> 01:10:55.622
A lot of comprehension issues.

01:10:56.162 --> 01:10:56.981
Yeah, I see that too.

01:10:57.002 --> 01:10:58.582
It's like, what about this thing?

01:10:58.603 --> 01:10:59.082
And it's like, well,

01:10:59.103 --> 01:11:00.344
we kind of addressed that in this part.

01:11:00.363 --> 01:11:00.444
Yeah.

01:11:01.344 --> 01:11:01.703
And of course,

01:11:01.724 --> 01:11:03.225
that's always something we can improve as

01:11:03.265 --> 01:11:03.484
well.

01:11:03.545 --> 01:11:05.386
But sometimes it's like, obviously,

01:11:06.506 --> 01:11:08.127
there's not much you can do to help

01:11:08.167 --> 01:11:08.667
some people.

01:11:08.688 --> 01:11:09.387
Yeah.

01:11:11.095 --> 01:11:12.176
Another good question here from Chicken

01:11:12.195 --> 01:11:12.537
Little, though.

01:11:12.657 --> 01:11:13.478
On Graphene OS,

01:11:13.497 --> 01:11:15.000
would you recommend the Aurora store or

01:11:15.039 --> 01:11:15.801
the Play Store?

01:11:17.484 --> 01:11:17.663
I mean,

01:11:17.684 --> 01:11:19.606
I don't know about in terms of privacy.

01:11:19.646 --> 01:11:20.627
I'm going to say Aurora is probably

01:11:20.648 --> 01:11:20.908
better,

01:11:20.948 --> 01:11:21.989
but we've seen in the past that the

01:11:22.029 --> 01:11:23.533
Play Store is usually more reliable

01:11:23.552 --> 01:11:24.554
because I remember there was...

01:11:25.996 --> 01:11:27.497
google did something or other that like

01:11:27.516 --> 01:11:29.599
basically broke the aurora store for a lot

01:11:29.639 --> 01:11:31.720
of users for i think a good couple

01:11:31.740 --> 01:11:33.243
of weeks and people were like weren't able

01:11:33.262 --> 01:11:34.344
to log in and weren't able to get

01:11:34.444 --> 01:11:37.025
updates and um i've noticed because i've

01:11:37.046 --> 01:11:39.068
tested graphing a couple times i've

01:11:39.127 --> 01:11:41.569
noticed um it's definitely a lot more

01:11:42.931 --> 01:11:45.654
seamless in the the the play store because

01:11:45.673 --> 01:11:47.336
like i've been in situations where um

01:11:48.716 --> 01:11:49.957
Like I'll open an app and it's like,

01:11:50.018 --> 01:11:50.318
hey,

01:11:50.358 --> 01:11:52.939
we're offering off a premium or whatever.

01:11:53.039 --> 01:11:53.881
And I'm like, oh, cool.

01:11:53.961 --> 01:11:56.302
And if I click the button in Graphene,

01:11:56.363 --> 01:11:57.663
it takes you right to the Play Store

01:11:57.703 --> 01:11:58.864
and you can pay for a subscription.

01:11:59.404 --> 01:12:01.667
And on Aurora Store, it's just like,

01:12:02.756 --> 01:12:03.438
It's like an error.

01:12:03.478 --> 01:12:04.177
It doesn't work.

01:12:04.377 --> 01:12:06.259
And that's fine if it's one of those

01:12:06.298 --> 01:12:07.520
privacy-respecting apps where it's like,

01:12:07.539 --> 01:12:07.800
oh, okay,

01:12:07.819 --> 01:12:09.100
I'll just log into the website and pay

01:12:09.121 --> 01:12:09.421
there.

01:12:09.942 --> 01:12:11.082
But some of them, it's like, no,

01:12:11.101 --> 01:12:12.682
this offer is only on the Play Store,

01:12:12.703 --> 01:12:13.463
which, again, at that point,

01:12:13.484 --> 01:12:14.524
there's privacy concerns.

01:12:14.564 --> 01:12:16.064
But I guess I'm just saying it's

01:12:16.145 --> 01:12:17.786
definitely a much smoother experience,

01:12:17.905 --> 01:12:18.987
I think, to use the Play Store.

01:12:19.027 --> 01:12:20.667
But Aurora would probably be more private

01:12:20.688 --> 01:12:21.167
in my guess.

01:12:22.009 --> 01:12:22.949
Yeah, sure.

01:12:23.069 --> 01:12:24.511
I mean, yeah,

01:12:24.530 --> 01:12:26.492
it depends on what you really want.

01:12:26.811 --> 01:12:27.652
Personally, I...

01:12:28.998 --> 01:12:31.140
I have a work profile for all the

01:12:31.180 --> 01:12:32.439
Google-related stuff,

01:12:32.520 --> 01:12:35.480
like stuff that needs Google for reliable

01:12:35.661 --> 01:12:38.141
push notifications or relies on Google

01:12:38.162 --> 01:12:40.162
Play services for some other reason.

01:12:40.563 --> 01:12:43.203
I installed Google Play services from the

01:12:43.224 --> 01:12:46.524
Graphene OS app store in there because all

01:12:46.545 --> 01:12:47.864
of those functions work without a Google

01:12:47.885 --> 01:12:49.786
account except for the Play store,

01:12:49.805 --> 01:12:51.065
which requires one.

01:12:51.105 --> 01:12:53.686
So I use Aurora store in that case

01:12:54.467 --> 01:12:56.608
to obtain the apps because you can do

01:12:56.627 --> 01:12:57.668
it without a Google account,

01:12:57.769 --> 01:12:57.988
which

01:12:58.948 --> 01:13:00.909
personally i think is very important but

01:13:01.490 --> 01:13:02.251
you know if you're going to use a

01:13:02.291 --> 01:13:04.033
google account anyways for all the stuff

01:13:04.073 --> 01:13:07.135
on your device the play store is probably

01:13:07.194 --> 01:13:09.136
better but if you don't want to if

01:13:09.376 --> 01:13:10.577
like some people don't have google

01:13:10.596 --> 01:13:12.318
accounts obviously and you probably don't

01:13:12.337 --> 01:13:14.238
want to make one so then if you

01:13:14.279 --> 01:13:15.779
need google play services and you don't

01:13:15.819 --> 01:13:18.261
want to make an account you can do

01:13:18.341 --> 01:13:19.943
exactly like that just install google play

01:13:19.962 --> 01:13:22.145
services and aurora store it's a good

01:13:22.164 --> 01:13:22.484
solution

01:13:24.724 --> 01:13:26.083
Yeah, on that note, continuing this,

01:13:26.264 --> 01:13:26.804
Chicken Little says,

01:13:26.844 --> 01:13:28.284
does Aurora actually improve privacy?

01:13:28.364 --> 01:13:30.185
So it improves privacy from what I

01:13:30.225 --> 01:13:30.704
understand.

01:13:30.824 --> 01:13:31.484
Correct me if I'm wrong.

01:13:31.565 --> 01:13:33.886
It improves privacy in the Play Store.

01:13:33.905 --> 01:13:35.485
So like the Play Store is not recording

01:13:35.645 --> 01:13:37.226
every app that I search or even the

01:13:37.287 --> 01:13:39.027
apps that I download because there's no

01:13:39.067 --> 01:13:40.606
Google account associated with it.

01:13:40.707 --> 01:13:42.247
But yeah, the app itself, I mean,

01:13:42.268 --> 01:13:44.127
it'll still be tracking the same stuff

01:13:44.148 --> 01:13:45.668
that it would as if it came from

01:13:45.689 --> 01:13:46.349
the Play Store.

01:13:46.469 --> 01:13:48.488
So yeah,

01:13:48.548 --> 01:13:49.668
it's more like protecting yourself

01:13:49.689 --> 01:13:50.770
directly from Google.

01:13:51.229 --> 01:13:51.989
Then sorry, go ahead.

01:13:52.855 --> 01:13:53.055
I mean,

01:13:53.095 --> 01:13:54.677
we have a whole section on our site

01:13:54.717 --> 01:13:56.680
about reducing the number of accounts you

01:13:56.740 --> 01:13:58.323
have and stuff like that.

01:13:58.342 --> 01:14:00.686
And it's always going to be like, yeah,

01:14:00.926 --> 01:14:03.650
like you said in your next comment here,

01:14:03.671 --> 01:14:05.713
you can make a Google account with a

01:14:05.793 --> 01:14:06.675
VPN or whatever,

01:14:06.694 --> 01:14:07.735
but it's always the more...

01:14:08.577 --> 01:14:10.698
privacy-minded solution to just not have

01:14:10.938 --> 01:14:12.319
an account at all and that you don't

01:14:12.338 --> 01:14:13.640
have to worry about that sort of thing

01:14:13.840 --> 01:14:16.440
or potentially leaking it in the future.

01:14:17.720 --> 01:14:19.181
As Jordan just said,

01:14:19.301 --> 01:14:21.523
it's very challenging to make a burner

01:14:21.563 --> 01:14:22.323
Google account.

01:14:22.384 --> 01:14:23.384
The other thing you have to keep in

01:14:23.423 --> 01:14:26.005
mind is if you make a Google account

01:14:26.024 --> 01:14:26.605
with a VPN,

01:14:26.626 --> 01:14:28.766
you then have to use that VPN all

01:14:28.787 --> 01:14:30.667
the time and not slip up with it.

01:14:32.488 --> 01:14:35.009
It's a lot more work compared to just

01:14:35.069 --> 01:14:37.310
not having an account at all, obviously.

01:14:37.449 --> 01:14:39.331
And I think that Aurora Store is very

01:14:39.350 --> 01:14:41.131
helpful in that regard.

01:14:41.152 --> 01:14:45.814
Yeah, Jordan said what I was thinking.

01:14:46.793 --> 01:14:49.914
Google's getting real strict about

01:14:51.416 --> 01:14:53.095
especially requiring a real phone number,

01:14:53.136 --> 01:14:54.157
like a SIM phone number.

01:14:54.396 --> 01:14:55.698
So it's tricky.

01:14:56.997 --> 01:14:57.778
This one I don't know.

01:14:57.858 --> 01:14:59.338
Is there a security difference between the

01:14:59.378 --> 01:14:59.559
two?

01:15:00.078 --> 01:15:01.760
They're equally secure, right?

01:15:02.333 --> 01:15:03.755
There's some risk.

01:15:03.854 --> 01:15:08.396
Aurora could just give you any APK that

01:15:08.537 --> 01:15:10.438
they want for you to download and install.

01:15:10.757 --> 01:15:13.060
So they could send you an impersonation

01:15:13.260 --> 01:15:15.841
app if you installed the legitimate app

01:15:16.480 --> 01:15:16.801
first.

01:15:19.639 --> 01:15:21.259
then Android is going to prevent you from

01:15:21.319 --> 01:15:24.420
installing an impersonator update because

01:15:24.460 --> 01:15:25.900
it checks the signature and stuff.

01:15:25.940 --> 01:15:28.020
So once you have that baseline,

01:15:28.301 --> 01:15:30.101
you're perfectly good with using Aurora.

01:15:32.643 --> 01:15:33.382
I believe,

01:15:33.563 --> 01:15:34.842
I don't know if this is true or

01:15:34.863 --> 01:15:34.983
not,

01:15:35.023 --> 01:15:36.524
but I'm pretty sure I've seen this on

01:15:36.623 --> 01:15:37.363
the Google Play Store.

01:15:37.423 --> 01:15:39.064
I think you can get updates for your

01:15:39.164 --> 01:15:41.204
apps on Google Play without signing in.

01:15:41.244 --> 01:15:42.185
I think on the sign-in page,

01:15:42.206 --> 01:15:43.225
there's a way to see updates.

01:15:43.286 --> 01:15:45.947
But I could be wrong about that,

01:15:45.966 --> 01:15:46.926
so correct me if I'm wrong.

01:15:47.306 --> 01:15:48.728
But that could be a good method to,

01:15:48.768 --> 01:15:51.229
like, if you install an app from Aurora,

01:15:51.250 --> 01:15:51.911
for example,

01:15:51.951 --> 01:15:54.212
you could try and get updates from Google

01:15:54.472 --> 01:15:54.792
Play.

01:15:54.853 --> 01:15:56.395
And then if those updates don't install,

01:15:56.414 --> 01:15:57.996
then you might have to be worried.

01:15:58.676 --> 01:15:59.476
On the other hand, like,

01:15:59.516 --> 01:16:01.899
Aurora is a pretty trusted app at this

01:16:01.998 --> 01:16:02.460
point.

01:16:03.701 --> 01:16:05.101
It has a long track record.

01:16:05.181 --> 01:16:08.404
There's been no notable issues.

01:16:08.585 --> 01:16:08.805
So...

01:16:11.006 --> 01:16:11.688
Jordan says, yeah,

01:16:11.707 --> 01:16:13.630
there is a way to get updates from

01:16:14.331 --> 01:16:16.672
Google Play without signing in.

01:16:16.693 --> 01:16:18.015
That's a good setup to have, I think,

01:16:18.055 --> 01:16:20.516
if you use Aurora for initial installs

01:16:20.557 --> 01:16:20.717
too,

01:16:20.738 --> 01:16:21.998
and then you have Google Play to get

01:16:22.078 --> 01:16:23.560
more reliable updates.

01:16:23.600 --> 01:16:24.421
That could be a good thing,

01:16:24.442 --> 01:16:26.404
because as you mentioned, Nate,

01:16:26.884 --> 01:16:28.765
there have been reliability issues with

01:16:28.826 --> 01:16:29.627
Aurora sometimes,

01:16:29.667 --> 01:16:31.509
so having another source for those updates

01:16:31.649 --> 01:16:31.970
is good.

01:16:36.686 --> 01:16:38.328
The other issue that I've heard about

01:16:38.507 --> 01:16:41.869
Aurora is that some settings on the Google

01:16:41.909 --> 01:16:45.190
accounts that they use can impact what

01:16:45.270 --> 01:16:46.152
gets served.

01:16:46.212 --> 01:16:49.273
So if that Google account is opted into

01:16:49.453 --> 01:16:52.253
a beta program, for example, of an app,

01:16:52.274 --> 01:16:53.914
then you might automatically get that

01:16:53.935 --> 01:16:54.734
version in Aurora.

01:16:57.273 --> 01:17:01.844
I don't know how widespread of an issue

01:17:01.863 --> 01:17:02.185
that is.

01:17:02.204 --> 01:17:04.791
I don't know what things could be changed

01:17:04.850 --> 01:17:06.555
in the Play Store on a per-account

01:17:08.282 --> 01:17:10.423
So there is that risk with using anonymous

01:17:10.465 --> 01:17:10.885
accounts,

01:17:11.565 --> 01:17:14.028
but there shouldn't be too many settings

01:17:14.047 --> 01:17:16.971
that would cause a real big impact in

01:17:17.011 --> 01:17:17.631
that regard.

01:17:17.671 --> 01:17:19.373
So overall,

01:17:19.474 --> 01:17:21.336
I'm personally not too worried about

01:17:21.577 --> 01:17:22.077
Aurora,

01:17:22.157 --> 01:17:24.920
but there is certainly a lot of stuff

01:17:24.939 --> 01:17:26.801
to keep in mind because you are trusting

01:17:26.822 --> 01:17:27.323
Aurora.

01:17:27.483 --> 01:17:29.963
another party in addition to Google at the

01:17:30.003 --> 01:17:30.524
end of the day.

01:17:30.845 --> 01:17:33.086
I think that using alternative app stores

01:17:33.686 --> 01:17:36.167
entirely whenever possible is the is the

01:17:36.207 --> 01:17:37.908
safest solution for sure.

01:17:39.757 --> 01:17:39.898
Yeah,

01:17:39.917 --> 01:17:41.359
I don't know if it's related to the

01:17:41.378 --> 01:17:43.560
accounts in Aurora or maybe like my device

01:17:43.581 --> 01:17:44.462
and my VPN and stuff.

01:17:44.481 --> 01:17:46.182
But I know sometimes in the past when

01:17:46.203 --> 01:17:47.704
I'm using Aurora,

01:17:48.284 --> 01:17:50.087
I have difficulty getting apps like my

01:17:50.106 --> 01:17:52.408
pseudo because they're only available in

01:17:52.448 --> 01:17:53.168
certain countries.

01:17:53.329 --> 01:17:54.430
So like sometimes I have to kind of

01:17:54.451 --> 01:17:55.971
close it out and research like several

01:17:56.032 --> 01:17:57.193
times before it shows up.

01:17:57.393 --> 01:18:00.154
So, yeah, that's a thing.

01:18:01.115 --> 01:18:02.957
uh chicken little said it seems like it

01:18:02.976 --> 01:18:05.457
still does send stuff to google so sends

01:18:05.478 --> 01:18:07.198
a list of your apps ip address all

01:18:07.257 --> 01:18:09.418
apps you download and search so yeah one

01:18:09.458 --> 01:18:10.779
thing that might be better is google play

01:18:10.819 --> 01:18:12.159
might have more fingerprinting so yeah

01:18:12.220 --> 01:18:15.220
again it's not a huge deal um i

01:18:15.240 --> 01:18:16.461
guess it's really personal preference

01:18:16.701 --> 01:18:17.742
they're not going to have like a list

01:18:17.782 --> 01:18:19.802
of apps on on your device though because

01:18:19.823 --> 01:18:21.823
you're using a shared google account so

01:18:21.842 --> 01:18:23.783
that that all gets merged together with

01:18:23.823 --> 01:18:25.685
other people who share it they might have

01:18:25.704 --> 01:18:26.385
a list of apps

01:18:27.349 --> 01:18:30.670
per IP address that downloads them,

01:18:30.750 --> 01:18:31.850
if Google is tracking that.

01:18:31.930 --> 01:18:33.030
But you can always...

01:18:33.570 --> 01:18:35.771
It's very easy to use a VPN and

01:18:35.792 --> 01:18:36.672
just split up your downloads.

01:18:36.712 --> 01:18:38.592
It's also very easy to... I mean,

01:18:38.632 --> 01:18:40.194
people switch IPs all the time,

01:18:40.234 --> 01:18:41.795
whether that's their cell provider

01:18:42.395 --> 01:18:44.475
switching towers or for some other reason.

01:18:44.555 --> 01:18:47.556
So yeah, I think...

01:18:48.845 --> 01:18:50.106
I think all of these things, you know,

01:18:50.186 --> 01:18:51.846
Google has visibility, obviously,

01:18:51.867 --> 01:18:53.287
because you're downloading it from the

01:18:53.328 --> 01:18:54.109
Google Play Store.

01:18:54.149 --> 01:18:56.510
But I think it's pretty obvious that there

01:18:56.529 --> 01:19:00.492
is a significantly different type and

01:19:00.532 --> 01:19:02.391
amount of data that could be collected by

01:19:02.453 --> 01:19:04.713
Google from Aurora store versus like

01:19:04.993 --> 01:19:06.373
signing in with a Google account and

01:19:06.434 --> 01:19:08.555
installing everything from Google Play

01:19:08.755 --> 01:19:09.235
directly.

01:19:10.676 --> 01:19:11.436
This is a risk.

01:19:12.603 --> 01:19:14.667
maybe of like all of the apps on

01:19:14.707 --> 01:19:17.532
your specific device if you do that thing

01:19:17.572 --> 01:19:19.795
i just said where you get things from

01:19:19.876 --> 01:19:21.438
aurora store but then you get updates from

01:19:21.497 --> 01:19:23.341
google play because then you're using the

01:19:23.381 --> 01:19:24.443
google play app and they could

01:19:26.030 --> 01:19:27.532
all of that information based on like your

01:19:27.612 --> 01:19:29.613
device id that the google play app can

01:19:29.673 --> 01:19:32.555
read which is i mean versus the aurora

01:19:32.595 --> 01:19:34.577
store which spent sends like a spoofed

01:19:35.176 --> 01:19:37.359
device to google play basically so that

01:19:37.378 --> 01:19:39.539
could be a reason to disable google play

01:19:40.121 --> 01:19:43.842
if you install it and uh only use

01:19:43.882 --> 01:19:45.644
aurora but at the same time like if

01:19:45.663 --> 01:19:47.505
you're using google play services in

01:19:47.585 --> 01:19:49.306
general google probably can collect all

01:19:49.346 --> 01:19:51.188
that information by a other means so

01:19:52.582 --> 01:19:52.722
Yeah,

01:19:52.842 --> 01:19:54.185
there's all sorts of privacy problems,

01:19:54.284 --> 01:19:56.207
obviously, with using any Google stuff,

01:19:56.226 --> 01:19:59.050
which is why I just wouldn't use any

01:19:59.090 --> 01:19:59.690
of these solutions.

01:19:59.711 --> 01:20:01.372
If you're super concerned about Google

01:20:01.533 --> 01:20:04.296
fingerprinting you get your sources,

01:20:04.496 --> 01:20:05.997
I mean, get your apps via other means.

01:20:08.746 --> 01:20:09.627
Christopher McConkey- yeah Jordan had a

01:20:09.667 --> 01:20:11.547
comment about a private space we're

01:20:11.667 --> 01:20:12.708
actually going to talk about that in a

01:20:12.748 --> 01:20:13.930
little bit so i'm going to save that

01:20:14.010 --> 01:20:14.550
one for now.

01:20:14.909 --> 01:20:17.591
Christopher McConkey- One more question we

01:20:17.631 --> 01:20:19.212
got before we move on to the next

01:20:19.233 --> 01:20:20.873
story limitless said,

01:20:20.914 --> 01:20:22.355
having a private DNS inside your home

01:20:22.395 --> 01:20:23.997
network or on a bps is a start

01:20:24.016 --> 01:20:25.417
for more privacy right I saw a lot

01:20:25.438 --> 01:20:26.798
of recommendations on starting with this

01:20:26.819 --> 01:20:27.099
step.

01:20:27.118 --> 01:20:28.460
Christopher McConkey- So.

01:20:29.813 --> 01:20:30.792
I mean, in my personal opinion,

01:20:30.853 --> 01:20:32.873
I think self-hosting your own DNS is not

01:20:33.354 --> 01:20:37.355
what I would call a starting point.

01:20:37.416 --> 01:20:38.896
I think that's a little bit advanced,

01:20:39.157 --> 01:20:41.778
but I think, yeah,

01:20:41.917 --> 01:20:44.259
I would definitely say Privacy Guides does

01:20:44.298 --> 01:20:46.939
have a list of recommended DNS providers

01:20:47.640 --> 01:20:49.921
that you could just start using right away

01:20:50.301 --> 01:20:51.942
and just like plug it into your router

01:20:51.962 --> 01:20:52.322
or whatever.

01:20:52.862 --> 01:20:54.101
I would definitely say that's a good place

01:20:54.122 --> 01:20:54.483
to start.

01:20:55.842 --> 01:20:56.684
And especially, you know,

01:20:56.703 --> 01:20:57.703
a lot of them do come with like

01:20:57.784 --> 01:20:58.765
ad blockers built in.

01:20:59.305 --> 01:21:00.546
So that's a really good way to help

01:21:00.886 --> 01:21:01.426
cut down it.

01:21:01.787 --> 01:21:02.328
In my experience,

01:21:02.347 --> 01:21:03.408
it doesn't completely reduce them,

01:21:03.427 --> 01:21:04.809
but it'll cut down on like the number

01:21:04.849 --> 01:21:05.909
of ads and like a smart TV,

01:21:05.930 --> 01:21:06.451
for example.

01:21:06.631 --> 01:21:08.171
So yeah,

01:21:08.212 --> 01:21:09.412
that's definitely something I recommend.

01:21:10.113 --> 01:21:11.974
I really want to find the time to

01:21:11.993 --> 01:21:13.154
start digging into the pie hole.

01:21:13.215 --> 01:21:14.475
I think I'm finally ready to pull the

01:21:14.496 --> 01:21:15.096
trigger on that.

01:21:15.896 --> 01:21:16.717
Um,

01:21:16.738 --> 01:21:19.319
that would probably be the easiest DNS to

01:21:19.359 --> 01:21:20.259
self-host I would imagine,

01:21:20.298 --> 01:21:21.600
or maybe something like next DNS.

01:21:21.659 --> 01:21:24.341
But, um, yeah, I mean, again,

01:21:24.440 --> 01:21:25.742
I think self-hosting it as a little bit

01:21:25.761 --> 01:21:27.143
more advanced would not recommend that as

01:21:27.162 --> 01:21:27.603
a first step,

01:21:27.622 --> 01:21:28.662
but if you're comfortable doing that,

01:21:28.703 --> 01:21:29.844
I think that's a,

01:21:29.904 --> 01:21:30.524
a great thing to do,

01:21:30.543 --> 01:21:32.045
but changing your DNS for sure is a

01:21:32.305 --> 01:21:33.445
good thing to do.

01:21:33.565 --> 01:21:33.666
Yeah.

01:21:36.048 --> 01:21:38.149
And then you said,

01:21:38.170 --> 01:21:39.751
do you guys plan on adding an education

01:21:39.791 --> 01:21:41.712
tab for apps and educations?

01:21:41.733 --> 01:21:43.934
I don't know if we could do that

01:21:43.974 --> 01:21:45.755
because there's so many and there's so

01:21:45.795 --> 01:21:46.615
many different needs.

01:21:46.655 --> 01:21:48.896
And you say tools that students could use

01:21:48.917 --> 01:21:50.158
when they first look on privacy guides.

01:21:50.177 --> 01:21:50.658
A lot of the time,

01:21:50.679 --> 01:21:51.958
students don't have a choice.

01:21:51.979 --> 01:21:53.420
You have to sign into your school portal

01:21:53.460 --> 01:21:54.440
and use a certain app.

01:21:54.461 --> 01:21:54.640
Yeah.

01:21:55.622 --> 01:21:57.622
I mean, or also,

01:21:58.264 --> 01:21:59.104
I don't know if there are a lot

01:21:59.144 --> 01:22:01.685
of student-specific recommendations to

01:22:01.706 --> 01:22:02.605
think about either.

01:22:03.027 --> 01:22:03.207
Yeah.

01:22:05.252 --> 01:22:06.493
A lot of the apps that we recommend

01:22:06.533 --> 01:22:07.153
on Privacy Guides,

01:22:07.472 --> 01:22:09.213
we list them specifically because they're

01:22:09.234 --> 01:22:11.176
kind of widely applicable to most people.

01:22:13.476 --> 01:22:17.038
I wouldn't be super opposed to doing

01:22:17.078 --> 01:22:17.779
something like that.

01:22:19.581 --> 01:22:22.502
I'm not super familiar with a ton of

01:22:24.104 --> 01:22:24.703
privacy...

01:22:27.042 --> 01:22:29.546
related tool specifically for students.

01:22:29.685 --> 01:22:32.208
I saw you just mentioned Zotero,

01:22:33.570 --> 01:22:37.114
which I believe manages citations if

01:22:37.135 --> 01:22:39.438
you're writing a paper,

01:22:39.457 --> 01:22:40.359
if I remember correctly.

01:22:41.279 --> 01:22:41.399
Yeah,

01:22:41.420 --> 01:22:42.701
I'm looking at the website right now.

01:22:42.780 --> 01:22:44.583
Collect, organize, annotate, cite,

01:22:44.644 --> 01:22:45.744
and share research.

01:22:46.146 --> 01:22:48.430
So I guess there is some research-related

01:22:48.609 --> 01:22:50.972
academic sort of software that we could

01:22:51.012 --> 01:22:51.453
recommend.

01:22:51.873 --> 01:22:52.414
Personally,

01:22:52.614 --> 01:22:55.519
I'm not super familiar with all of them,

01:22:55.578 --> 01:22:56.600
especially like...

01:22:56.640 --> 01:22:58.061
I've heard of some of these,

01:22:58.082 --> 01:22:59.623
like I've seen Zotero, for example,

01:22:59.663 --> 01:22:59.944
but I...

01:23:01.623 --> 01:23:02.685
don't know off the top of my head

01:23:02.704 --> 01:23:06.587
like super privacy focused alternatives

01:23:06.646 --> 01:23:08.807
besides like maybe using a standard

01:23:09.208 --> 01:23:10.750
bookmark manager for something but that's

01:23:10.789 --> 01:23:12.029
not going to help with like formatting

01:23:12.069 --> 01:23:14.112
resources if anyone does have like

01:23:14.752 --> 01:23:18.213
suggestions for academic tools that we

01:23:18.234 --> 01:23:19.814
could look into definitely leave

01:23:20.515 --> 01:23:22.877
suggestions on the forum because obviously

01:23:22.917 --> 01:23:23.976
we look at all of those and it

01:23:24.057 --> 01:23:26.399
allows more people to get eyes on them

01:23:26.578 --> 01:23:28.880
and discuss them so we're not relying on

01:23:29.921 --> 01:23:32.320
people on the team trying to know

01:23:32.381 --> 01:23:34.221
everything about everything right we gotta

01:23:35.221 --> 01:23:37.542
we gotta get uh all of our recommendations

01:23:37.582 --> 01:23:39.662
from the community so definitely

01:23:40.283 --> 01:23:42.403
definitely mention that um but yeah

01:23:42.542 --> 01:23:45.684
otherwise like we have recommendations for

01:23:46.423 --> 01:23:48.184
notebook software for example we have

01:23:48.224 --> 01:23:51.444
recommendations for um stuff like rss

01:23:51.465 --> 01:23:54.225
readers for keeping up with news and and

01:23:54.284 --> 01:23:56.466
all sorts of stuff that students can can

01:23:56.565 --> 01:23:57.126
use so

01:23:58.805 --> 01:23:59.365
Yeah, I was going to say,

01:23:59.386 --> 01:24:01.167
I haven't been a student in over ten

01:24:01.207 --> 01:24:03.368
years, and I was a liberal arts major,

01:24:03.469 --> 01:24:05.390
so I didn't really do a lot of

01:24:05.470 --> 01:24:06.591
citations.

01:24:07.051 --> 01:24:07.591
I just had to,

01:24:08.292 --> 01:24:09.313
I was actually a music major,

01:24:09.353 --> 01:24:10.814
so I had to know how to play

01:24:10.854 --> 01:24:12.154
piano, and that was it.

01:24:13.796 --> 01:24:14.617
But yeah, I mean,

01:24:14.896 --> 01:24:15.917
it looks like interesting, but yeah,

01:24:15.938 --> 01:24:16.698
that's what I was going to say,

01:24:16.779 --> 01:24:17.338
is definitely,

01:24:17.859 --> 01:24:18.899
I would say open a thing on the

01:24:18.939 --> 01:24:19.279
forum,

01:24:19.300 --> 01:24:21.402
and if this turns out to be a

01:24:21.442 --> 01:24:22.481
huge area of concern,

01:24:22.502 --> 01:24:23.783
then it's something we could definitely

01:24:23.802 --> 01:24:24.363
look into,

01:24:24.444 --> 01:24:24.604
but

01:24:25.381 --> 01:24:26.382
I certainly wouldn't even know where to

01:24:26.403 --> 01:24:26.582
start.

01:24:26.622 --> 01:24:27.724
You said someone mentioned obsidian.

01:24:27.804 --> 01:24:28.545
I've used obsidian.

01:24:28.664 --> 01:24:29.386
I like obsidian.

01:24:30.006 --> 01:24:31.587
I keep hearing conflicting reports on

01:24:31.627 --> 01:24:32.649
whether or not it's open source.

01:24:32.668 --> 01:24:33.710
Some people don't like it.

01:24:34.390 --> 01:24:35.270
It's not open source.

01:24:35.350 --> 01:24:37.132
I can tell you that for sure.

01:24:37.153 --> 01:24:37.493
Gotcha.

01:24:37.733 --> 01:24:38.173
Okay.

01:24:38.213 --> 01:24:39.954
But I mean, yeah, there's, I mean,

01:24:39.975 --> 01:24:40.355
there's so many,

01:24:40.376 --> 01:24:41.356
that's actually something I've been

01:24:41.377 --> 01:24:41.917
meaning to do.

01:24:42.356 --> 01:24:43.497
Um, I started doing,

01:24:43.518 --> 01:24:45.399
and then I got super distracted is I,

01:24:46.240 --> 01:24:47.101
for my last job,

01:24:47.242 --> 01:24:48.743
I started building a personal knowledge

01:24:48.783 --> 01:24:51.284
base, um, because we had so many, like,

01:24:51.985 --> 01:24:52.926
Where's this manual?

01:24:52.966 --> 01:24:54.309
Where's the support number?

01:24:54.448 --> 01:24:55.871
Who who's the contact for this?

01:24:55.911 --> 01:24:57.032
Like we had so much of that going

01:24:57.131 --> 01:24:57.252
on.

01:24:57.813 --> 01:24:59.734
I started building a personal and I use

01:24:59.774 --> 01:25:02.377
Notion for it because this was for work,

01:25:02.398 --> 01:25:03.479
so it was not super sensitive.

01:25:03.519 --> 01:25:04.980
But I started building like a personal

01:25:05.020 --> 01:25:06.743
database of like my own personal wiki.

01:25:08.760 --> 01:25:10.742
So like, uh,

01:25:10.761 --> 01:25:11.842
the reason I bring that up is at

01:25:12.002 --> 01:25:13.585
one point I wanted to do like a

01:25:13.645 --> 01:25:15.546
review of all these different like notion

01:25:15.626 --> 01:25:15.966
type,

01:25:15.987 --> 01:25:17.587
like there's one called any type I think.

01:25:17.608 --> 01:25:19.069
And then there's obsidian and there's like

01:25:19.489 --> 01:25:20.091
notes nook.

01:25:20.150 --> 01:25:21.872
And yeah, I really wanted to do that,

01:25:21.891 --> 01:25:23.913
but I just, uh,

01:25:23.953 --> 01:25:25.274
it fell by the wayside and there's so

01:25:25.295 --> 01:25:26.216
many, there's guys,

01:25:26.235 --> 01:25:27.516
there's so many videos to do in so

01:25:27.556 --> 01:25:28.979
little time.

01:25:29.078 --> 01:25:31.081
I think the tricky thing with obsidian is

01:25:31.161 --> 01:25:32.341
like, I don't really know.

01:25:34.082 --> 01:25:35.483
I guess I just don't use notebook stuff

01:25:35.502 --> 01:25:36.965
enough and I haven't really seen on the

01:25:37.024 --> 01:25:39.386
forum like a great explanation for why it

01:25:39.407 --> 01:25:41.368
would be much better than notesnook I

01:25:41.387 --> 01:25:44.131
think notesnook is a pretty widely liked

01:25:44.711 --> 01:25:49.074
uh note-taking application as well um so I

01:25:49.114 --> 01:25:50.997
mean if people like Obsidian a lot more

01:25:51.197 --> 01:25:53.578
definitely just share that on the forum

01:25:53.618 --> 01:25:56.001
thread for it and we'd have to consider

01:25:56.020 --> 01:25:57.783
it any type is another one where

01:25:59.177 --> 01:26:00.238
That's been talked about for a while.

01:26:00.337 --> 01:26:01.878
I'm not exactly sure why we don't have

01:26:01.899 --> 01:26:02.359
it on the site.

01:26:02.399 --> 01:26:04.319
It's maybe just because not a lot of

01:26:04.500 --> 01:26:06.421
people are super interested in getting it

01:26:06.461 --> 01:26:06.761
listed.

01:26:06.961 --> 01:26:07.820
That's how it works a lot of the

01:26:07.841 --> 01:26:10.742
times.

01:26:10.841 --> 01:26:13.502
If there's something that's not listed on

01:26:13.523 --> 01:26:13.823
the site,

01:26:13.863 --> 01:26:17.024
it's usually just because not enough

01:26:17.064 --> 01:26:18.465
people are really pushing for it to

01:26:18.524 --> 01:26:18.925
happen.

01:26:18.965 --> 01:26:19.985
So you gotta...

01:26:20.725 --> 01:26:23.487
you got to let us know what to

01:26:23.527 --> 01:26:26.207
look into or where these discussions are

01:26:26.228 --> 01:26:26.448
going.

01:26:27.028 --> 01:26:28.889
Because the entire site is obviously,

01:26:29.588 --> 01:26:31.869
it's more of a community collaborative

01:26:32.050 --> 01:26:35.871
effort than like one person's opinion,

01:26:36.030 --> 01:26:36.251
right?

01:26:36.310 --> 01:26:38.692
So I can't really just put whatever we

01:26:38.731 --> 01:26:39.431
want on the site.

01:26:41.993 --> 01:26:44.293
Does Notesnook not have a free tier?

01:26:47.675 --> 01:26:48.414
That I don't know.

01:26:48.942 --> 01:26:50.342
Cause I'm looking at the website right now

01:26:50.363 --> 01:26:51.503
and I'm trying to remember, I'm like,

01:26:51.543 --> 01:26:52.824
why didn't I use notes?

01:26:52.864 --> 01:26:52.984
No.

01:26:53.005 --> 01:26:54.126
Cause I remember looking at it.

01:26:54.145 --> 01:26:57.488
I don't know.

01:26:57.528 --> 01:26:57.948
I don't know.

01:26:59.088 --> 01:26:59.630
I think they have a,

01:27:00.029 --> 01:27:00.810
they have a free tier.

01:27:00.869 --> 01:27:02.291
I don't know what the limitations are.

01:27:02.692 --> 01:27:02.811
Um,

01:27:02.912 --> 01:27:04.693
I haven't used it in a while cause

01:27:04.733 --> 01:27:06.935
I just don't use a lot of notes

01:27:06.994 --> 01:27:09.475
app and notes apps in general, but they,

01:27:09.496 --> 01:27:10.676
they do have a,

01:27:10.697 --> 01:27:11.778
they have some sort of free tier.

01:27:12.137 --> 01:27:12.177
Uh,

01:27:12.238 --> 01:27:13.538
you'd have to look at their pricing site

01:27:13.559 --> 01:27:15.480
to see how it compares.

01:27:15.541 --> 01:27:15.881
I don't know.

01:27:17.136 --> 01:27:19.396
I want something that integrates with

01:27:19.457 --> 01:27:19.837
NextCloud.

01:27:19.877 --> 01:27:21.697
I want NextCloud's Notes app to be just

01:27:21.737 --> 01:27:22.296
a little bit better.

01:27:22.337 --> 01:27:23.217
It's not terrible,

01:27:24.097 --> 01:27:25.578
but it's definitely not on par with

01:27:25.597 --> 01:27:26.478
something like Obsidian.

01:27:27.319 --> 01:27:28.819
Yeah.

01:27:28.859 --> 01:27:29.338
I don't know.

01:27:29.639 --> 01:27:31.319
I might drop that idea in our little

01:27:32.100 --> 01:27:33.560
database of video ideas.

01:27:34.340 --> 01:27:35.060
Circle back to that.

01:27:35.881 --> 01:27:36.980
I can't remember why I didn't go with

01:27:37.020 --> 01:27:37.320
NotesNook.

01:27:38.828 --> 01:27:41.970
Anyways, let me see here.

01:27:41.990 --> 01:27:44.511
I think that was, yeah,

01:27:44.591 --> 01:27:46.132
Obsidian is not transparent.

01:27:47.854 --> 01:27:50.255
And they don't have modes on iOS.

01:27:50.854 --> 01:27:51.895
Oh, you might be talking about notes.

01:27:52.315 --> 01:27:52.555
Anyways.

01:27:54.829 --> 01:27:55.109
Yeah.

01:27:55.189 --> 01:27:55.369
Okay.

01:27:55.409 --> 01:27:55.770
So with that,

01:27:55.869 --> 01:27:57.190
we're going to move on to our next

01:27:57.211 --> 01:27:57.650
story.

01:27:58.490 --> 01:27:59.452
And this one's actually just going to be

01:27:59.471 --> 01:27:59.692
really,

01:27:59.731 --> 01:28:03.033
really quick because we have talked to

01:28:03.052 --> 01:28:05.514
death about age verification and social

01:28:05.533 --> 01:28:07.574
media bans and all this crap.

01:28:07.835 --> 01:28:08.935
And we're so, so,

01:28:09.095 --> 01:28:10.315
so tired of talking about it.

01:28:10.695 --> 01:28:11.296
But unfortunately,

01:28:11.317 --> 01:28:14.497
this is happening and it's moving forward.

01:28:14.917 --> 01:28:15.939
So that's really why we're bringing this

01:28:16.038 --> 01:28:16.418
up again.

01:28:16.439 --> 01:28:17.259
This is going to be real quick.

01:28:17.618 --> 01:28:19.220
But the UK has now,

01:28:19.539 --> 01:28:20.300
from what I understand,

01:28:20.399 --> 01:28:22.161
officially decided they're going to ban

01:28:22.201 --> 01:28:23.962
social media for children under sixteen.

01:28:24.801 --> 01:28:27.182
and also may impose overnight curfews,

01:28:28.103 --> 01:28:28.722
which is interesting.

01:28:29.403 --> 01:28:31.644
So this will take effect in spring of

01:28:31.684 --> 01:28:31.884
twenty,

01:28:31.904 --> 01:28:33.684
twenty seven and will imply to platforms

01:28:33.724 --> 01:28:35.243
such as Snapchat, TikTok, YouTube,

01:28:35.283 --> 01:28:37.465
Instagram, Facebook and Twitter, a.k.a.

01:28:37.725 --> 01:28:37.904
X.

01:28:38.784 --> 01:28:41.765
And Keir Starmer is so proud of this.

01:28:41.805 --> 01:28:43.326
We're going further than any country in

01:28:43.345 --> 01:28:44.966
the world by banning social media for

01:28:45.046 --> 01:28:45.987
under sixteens.

01:28:46.006 --> 01:28:48.346
And I'm pretty sure other countries have

01:28:48.386 --> 01:28:48.926
done that, too.

01:28:49.027 --> 01:28:51.828
But yeah, this is a man.

01:28:52.994 --> 01:28:54.457
I don't I mean, again,

01:28:54.497 --> 01:28:55.818
we've we've talked about this to death,

01:28:55.858 --> 01:28:56.960
so I'm really not going to say that

01:28:57.020 --> 01:28:59.743
much other than just like this is not

01:28:59.762 --> 01:29:00.203
going to work.

01:29:00.904 --> 01:29:02.305
It has not worked in other countries.

01:29:02.466 --> 01:29:03.787
I don't know what makes the UK think

01:29:03.807 --> 01:29:04.268
they're special,

01:29:04.287 --> 01:29:05.248
that it's going to work for them.

01:29:05.890 --> 01:29:07.391
I believe this article pointed out that

01:29:07.471 --> 01:29:08.172
this is just going to.

01:29:08.273 --> 01:29:08.733
Oh, yeah, yeah.

01:29:09.654 --> 01:29:11.716
It's probably where was it?

01:29:12.730 --> 01:29:13.993
Yeah, right here, the subheader.

01:29:14.233 --> 01:29:15.935
Critics say bans push kids to riskier

01:29:15.975 --> 01:29:17.756
alternatives and can be beaten with VPNs,

01:29:17.796 --> 01:29:18.597
which we've already seen.

01:29:18.637 --> 01:29:20.980
We've already seen kids using VPNs to get

01:29:21.001 --> 01:29:23.483
around this stuff in the United Kingdom.

01:29:23.884 --> 01:29:26.407
We've already seen them, you know,

01:29:27.707 --> 01:29:27.988
what is it,

01:29:28.029 --> 01:29:30.011
like using their parents' IDs or using

01:29:30.110 --> 01:29:31.712
screenshots from video games?

01:29:31.773 --> 01:29:32.333
I mean, this is...

01:29:34.231 --> 01:29:34.931
I don't know.

01:29:34.952 --> 01:29:36.073
I don't understand what is with

01:29:36.092 --> 01:29:38.412
governments this week deciding that like,

01:29:38.653 --> 01:29:40.493
oh, we know this thing doesn't work.

01:29:40.734 --> 01:29:41.953
There's evidence this thing doesn't work.

01:29:41.993 --> 01:29:43.333
There's real world examples that this

01:29:43.354 --> 01:29:43.974
thing doesn't work.

01:29:44.534 --> 01:29:45.475
Hey, let's do that thing.

01:29:45.814 --> 01:29:46.675
So whatever.

01:29:46.795 --> 01:29:49.956
But we're mostly sharing to alert the UK

01:29:50.376 --> 01:29:52.055
people in the audience and maybe you can

01:29:52.095 --> 01:29:55.817
contact your MPs and hopefully get them to

01:29:55.877 --> 01:29:56.617
reverse course.

01:29:57.478 --> 01:29:58.537
I don't know what's going on over there.

01:29:59.297 --> 01:29:59.898
Y'all scare me.

01:30:00.018 --> 01:30:00.917
That's coming from an American.

01:30:01.658 --> 01:30:02.198
Y'all scare me.

01:30:02.618 --> 01:30:02.779
So

01:30:03.668 --> 01:30:04.389
Yeah, I don't.

01:30:04.748 --> 01:30:05.069
Like I said,

01:30:05.310 --> 01:30:06.310
I'd keep that one quick because I don't

01:30:06.329 --> 01:30:07.170
really have much to add.

01:30:07.210 --> 01:30:09.331
Do you have anything to say on that

01:30:09.390 --> 01:30:09.791
one, Jonah?

01:30:11.351 --> 01:30:12.011
No, I don't think so.

01:30:12.032 --> 01:30:12.212
I mean,

01:30:12.252 --> 01:30:13.592
we've been talking about all this stuff in

01:30:13.613 --> 01:30:16.434
the UK for quite a while and it

01:30:16.453 --> 01:30:17.213
just keeps coming.

01:30:17.875 --> 01:30:18.935
I don't really understand.

01:30:20.135 --> 01:30:22.416
Jordan has a good point about like China's

01:30:22.456 --> 01:30:24.756
doing stuff like that or did stuff like

01:30:24.777 --> 01:30:26.837
this in the past and everyone in other

01:30:26.877 --> 01:30:28.259
countries kind of lost their minds about

01:30:28.298 --> 01:30:28.998
it and they're like, oh,

01:30:29.059 --> 01:30:30.038
China's so terrible.

01:30:30.158 --> 01:30:31.619
And then all of this stuff is...

01:30:32.679 --> 01:30:35.662
just gonna happen everywhere else uh you

01:30:35.681 --> 01:30:39.744
know they just kind of yeah it's and

01:30:39.805 --> 01:30:41.146
all governments seem to have this this

01:30:41.167 --> 01:30:42.828
same motivation for some reason i don't

01:30:42.868 --> 01:30:45.090
really understand what it is about like

01:30:46.470 --> 01:30:47.591
and i don't know what triggered this

01:30:47.631 --> 01:30:50.895
whether it's like terrorist attacks in the

01:30:51.296 --> 01:30:54.337
in the nineties or early two thousands or

01:30:54.398 --> 01:30:56.319
whether it's like the rise of technology

01:30:56.340 --> 01:30:57.121
but i feel like

01:30:59.038 --> 01:31:01.280
People just don't really want to stand up

01:31:01.341 --> 01:31:03.703
for any of these things or stand against

01:31:03.743 --> 01:31:04.564
the government anymore.

01:31:04.583 --> 01:31:05.744
I feel like there used to be at

01:31:05.784 --> 01:31:09.887
least some more of a movement in society

01:31:10.028 --> 01:31:13.390
and modern culture where people distrusted

01:31:13.411 --> 01:31:14.091
the government more,

01:31:14.171 --> 01:31:15.552
and now it seems like the government just

01:31:15.573 --> 01:31:17.175
kind of does whatever they want,

01:31:17.255 --> 01:31:18.916
and there's not a lot of pushback anymore.

01:31:19.774 --> 01:31:20.756
from people whatsoever.

01:31:20.877 --> 01:31:22.939
And I don't know what has really driven

01:31:22.960 --> 01:31:24.641
that change or why it's happening,

01:31:25.462 --> 01:31:27.966
but it seems like a problem to me.

01:31:27.987 --> 01:31:30.890
Well,

01:31:30.970 --> 01:31:32.512
I think with these tech laws specifically,

01:31:32.533 --> 01:31:33.134
it's like people

01:31:34.832 --> 01:31:35.012
I mean,

01:31:35.052 --> 01:31:36.234
we see it in our own comments.

01:31:36.274 --> 01:31:37.533
People will come into the comments and

01:31:37.554 --> 01:31:38.194
they'll just be like, no,

01:31:38.234 --> 01:31:38.935
this is a good thing.

01:31:38.954 --> 01:31:40.215
Like, kids don't belong on the Internet.

01:31:40.234 --> 01:31:41.796
Like, Facebook is so bad for kids.

01:31:42.235 --> 01:31:42.975
And it's like, you know,

01:31:43.055 --> 01:31:44.197
you I think it was you pointed out.

01:31:44.216 --> 01:31:44.556
It's like, yeah,

01:31:44.577 --> 01:31:46.478
but Facebook's like bad for everyone.

01:31:46.557 --> 01:31:47.518
It's hurting everyone.

01:31:47.537 --> 01:31:48.859
And like, I don't understand.

01:31:48.918 --> 01:31:50.458
It's I do understand.

01:31:50.498 --> 01:31:51.960
It's the Internet is where nuance goes to

01:31:52.000 --> 01:31:52.300
die.

01:31:52.359 --> 01:31:54.041
But like, for some reason, people,

01:31:54.761 --> 01:31:55.902
they seem to think this is a good

01:31:55.942 --> 01:31:56.122
thing.

01:31:56.141 --> 01:31:57.962
And they're ignoring all the like the ways

01:31:57.981 --> 01:31:59.323
that this can go wrong and all the

01:31:59.342 --> 01:32:00.583
knock on effects that this is going to

01:32:00.623 --> 01:32:00.904
have.

01:32:00.944 --> 01:32:01.024
And

01:32:02.247 --> 01:32:03.649
That's the part that baffles me.

01:32:03.668 --> 01:32:05.010
How does nobody see where this is

01:32:05.229 --> 01:32:07.771
inevitably going to lead?

01:32:07.811 --> 01:32:10.533
I feel like people used to be able

01:32:10.573 --> 01:32:11.974
to see this.

01:32:12.555 --> 01:32:13.515
I don't know how true that is.

01:32:16.396 --> 01:32:20.579
There's the Boston Tea Party would fight

01:32:20.600 --> 01:32:21.739
back against the government.

01:32:22.940 --> 01:32:24.341
We did that just because tea sucks.

01:32:25.502 --> 01:32:28.123
Oh yeah, obviously.

01:32:28.203 --> 01:32:28.444
Hot take.

01:32:28.484 --> 01:32:29.484
That's what we're going to get a million

01:32:29.524 --> 01:32:30.365
comments on right there.

01:32:32.039 --> 01:32:33.362
but like other other things that the

01:32:33.402 --> 01:32:36.104
government just tries to to do for for

01:32:36.164 --> 01:32:38.067
no reason there's more pushback against it

01:32:38.106 --> 01:32:40.590
like uh you know during the the vietnam

01:32:40.630 --> 01:32:42.391
war for example obviously there were whole

01:32:42.572 --> 01:32:43.854
movements against the sort of thing

01:32:43.873 --> 01:32:45.335
protests um

01:32:46.917 --> 01:32:49.059
There were protests in the streets lately

01:32:49.099 --> 01:32:53.400
about immigration stuff earlier in the

01:32:53.440 --> 01:32:53.801
year.

01:32:54.261 --> 01:32:55.440
But yeah,

01:32:55.581 --> 01:32:57.421
not a lot of the ways that the

01:32:57.442 --> 01:32:59.243
government just overreaches in every other

01:32:59.323 --> 01:33:01.462
aspect of our lives.

01:33:01.484 --> 01:33:03.564
I don't know.

01:33:03.583 --> 01:33:05.585
I feel like the UK in particular,

01:33:05.784 --> 01:33:07.525
and someone correct me if I'm wrong.

01:33:07.546 --> 01:33:08.645
I'm not being facetious here.

01:33:08.685 --> 01:33:09.065
Maybe I'm...

01:33:11.167 --> 01:33:12.247
maybe i've gotten the wrong impression

01:33:12.287 --> 01:33:13.630
from headlines but i feel like the uk

01:33:13.649 --> 01:33:15.150
has made it a lot harder to to

01:33:15.211 --> 01:33:18.635
protest over there so yeah the uk is

01:33:18.835 --> 01:33:20.436
is a whole different piece i have no

01:33:20.497 --> 01:33:22.078
idea what's going on in the uk to

01:33:22.097 --> 01:33:23.139
be honest um

01:33:23.993 --> 01:33:26.034
many more people from the UK to chime

01:33:26.055 --> 01:33:26.175
in.

01:33:26.215 --> 01:33:27.877
But from my perspective,

01:33:27.896 --> 01:33:29.497
it makes no sense.

01:33:29.537 --> 01:33:30.418
And I totally agree.

01:33:30.458 --> 01:33:32.280
Chicken Little just at the UK makes the

01:33:32.320 --> 01:33:33.862
US look like a privacy haven.

01:33:34.222 --> 01:33:35.944
And I really do believe that that's true,

01:33:36.003 --> 01:33:36.625
absolutely,

01:33:36.704 --> 01:33:40.007
which is a very concerning thing because

01:33:40.148 --> 01:33:42.369
the privacy in the US is absolutely

01:33:42.409 --> 01:33:42.831
terrible.

01:33:43.091 --> 01:33:44.752
And not only that, but the US

01:33:45.432 --> 01:33:48.676
contributes to so many privacy violations

01:33:48.775 --> 01:33:49.515
all around the world,

01:33:49.555 --> 01:33:52.078
whether that's through big tech companies

01:33:52.198 --> 01:33:55.341
or whether that's through like FISA with

01:33:55.900 --> 01:33:57.403
foreign intelligence and all that stuff.

01:33:58.844 --> 01:34:01.246
And yet the UK is making,

01:34:02.606 --> 01:34:04.568
it's just so much worse right now.

01:34:04.608 --> 01:34:07.029
I don't even understand what is going on,

01:34:07.270 --> 01:34:08.070
like I said, at all.

01:34:09.804 --> 01:34:10.323
There's a reason.

01:34:10.363 --> 01:34:11.725
Nineteen eighty four was set in the UK,

01:34:11.786 --> 01:34:13.966
right?

01:34:14.587 --> 01:34:15.588
Now, I know I've said this before,

01:34:15.628 --> 01:34:15.889
but yeah,

01:34:15.929 --> 01:34:17.750
like my my wife and I have discussed

01:34:17.831 --> 01:34:19.412
the idea of possibly moving to Europe

01:34:19.551 --> 01:34:19.931
someday.

01:34:20.131 --> 01:34:21.233
And we've thrown around like,

01:34:21.573 --> 01:34:22.094
what about here?

01:34:22.113 --> 01:34:22.554
What about here?

01:34:22.594 --> 01:34:23.074
What about here?

01:34:23.114 --> 01:34:25.796
And she's got friends in the UK.

01:34:25.837 --> 01:34:27.137
So like that's one of the few places

01:34:27.158 --> 01:34:27.578
that she's like,

01:34:28.019 --> 01:34:29.359
would you ever consider moving to the UK?

01:34:29.380 --> 01:34:30.761
And I'm like, absolutely not.

01:34:30.780 --> 01:34:32.042
Like, this is not even a discussion.

01:34:32.202 --> 01:34:32.582
No way.

01:34:32.622 --> 01:34:34.663
They're the only country that like we do

01:34:34.703 --> 01:34:36.045
something and they're like.

01:34:37.025 --> 01:34:39.268
hold hold my guinness like now we can

01:34:39.287 --> 01:34:40.488
we can do better than that or whatever

01:34:40.628 --> 01:34:42.229
whatever beer they have over there so yeah

01:34:42.250 --> 01:34:47.094
it's yikes um okay i'm not i i'm

01:34:47.154 --> 01:34:48.595
also not super familiar with the uk but

01:34:48.654 --> 01:34:50.877
one thing real quick limitless said uh one

01:34:50.896 --> 01:34:52.198
thing i don't understand the royal family

01:34:52.217 --> 01:34:53.238
is looking at all this mess that the

01:34:53.278 --> 01:34:54.599
so-called prime minister just betraying

01:34:54.639 --> 01:34:56.201
the laws and doing nothing about it from

01:34:56.220 --> 01:34:58.502
what i understand the the royal family

01:34:58.542 --> 01:35:00.783
doesn't actually have any real political

01:35:00.823 --> 01:35:02.966
power like they have soft power in the

01:35:03.006 --> 01:35:05.568
sense that like um they can um

01:35:08.302 --> 01:35:09.944
like a celebrity basically here in the us

01:35:09.963 --> 01:35:11.626
like they can voice their opinions and

01:35:11.666 --> 01:35:12.707
people will probably listen to their

01:35:12.726 --> 01:35:14.408
opinions even when they're not qualified

01:35:14.448 --> 01:35:16.328
because they're not experienced in that

01:35:16.368 --> 01:35:18.530
issue but um you know like they they

01:35:18.570 --> 01:35:20.032
can influence public opinion but they

01:35:20.051 --> 01:35:22.333
don't actually have any legal power to get

01:35:22.373 --> 01:35:24.154
up there and be like no that's not

01:35:24.175 --> 01:35:26.277
allowed so i think they actually do

01:35:26.636 --> 01:35:28.979
although do they i think they do like

01:35:29.279 --> 01:35:31.881
a veto power for sure in technically in

01:35:31.962 --> 01:35:34.764
law i think um interesting i think there's

01:35:34.804 --> 01:35:35.944
like an understanding

01:35:36.664 --> 01:35:40.006
for sure that they don't use it and

01:35:40.046 --> 01:35:41.646
it's like it like a lot of their

01:35:41.667 --> 01:35:44.087
stuff is ceremonial like it remains in law

01:35:44.387 --> 01:35:46.850
but i think a lot of people in

01:35:46.909 --> 01:35:49.230
the government would would have a problem

01:35:49.310 --> 01:35:50.970
if they actually if they actually did

01:35:51.011 --> 01:35:52.271
something so i don't think it ever gets

01:35:52.372 --> 01:35:55.752
used but technically it exists i can see

01:35:55.934 --> 01:35:57.793
that yeah i think it's more of a

01:35:57.833 --> 01:35:59.034
celebrity thing at this point

01:36:00.751 --> 01:36:01.011
Yeah,

01:36:01.030 --> 01:36:02.472
it's definitely it's it's I actually

01:36:02.493 --> 01:36:04.054
remember I took a political science class

01:36:04.073 --> 01:36:05.015
in college and it made a lot of

01:36:05.055 --> 01:36:07.817
sense to me because it and this is

01:36:07.837 --> 01:36:08.578
a little bit off topic,

01:36:08.618 --> 01:36:10.479
but like it kind of allows people to

01:36:10.519 --> 01:36:13.681
like separate the politics of the country

01:36:13.721 --> 01:36:14.802
from the culture of the country,

01:36:14.842 --> 01:36:15.302
which I think is.

01:36:16.144 --> 01:36:17.345
honestly something America could really

01:36:17.385 --> 01:36:18.225
use right now is like,

01:36:18.305 --> 01:36:19.605
it gives people the ability to look at

01:36:19.626 --> 01:36:20.827
like Keir Starmer, for example,

01:36:20.947 --> 01:36:22.547
and be like, that guy sucks.

01:36:22.688 --> 01:36:23.287
I hate this guy.

01:36:23.328 --> 01:36:24.168
He's ruining the country.

01:36:24.988 --> 01:36:26.109
Uh, I don't think that's a hot take,

01:36:26.130 --> 01:36:26.609
but for the record,

01:36:26.670 --> 01:36:27.810
I'm just using it as an example,

01:36:28.150 --> 01:36:29.612
but then also to like, you know,

01:36:30.292 --> 01:36:30.891
I know she's dead now,

01:36:30.912 --> 01:36:31.953
but like God saved the queen.

01:36:32.012 --> 01:36:33.054
Like I love the country.

01:36:33.173 --> 01:36:34.434
I love the union Jack, whatever,

01:36:34.935 --> 01:36:36.314
whatever the UK version is.

01:36:36.435 --> 01:36:37.895
And so like, I,

01:36:38.015 --> 01:36:39.636
it's actually kind of a really smart idea

01:36:39.676 --> 01:36:40.637
to have like a, a,

01:36:42.095 --> 01:36:43.556
a culture isn't the right word,

01:36:43.596 --> 01:36:45.358
but like there's the political side and

01:36:45.377 --> 01:36:46.979
then there's like this other side that's I

01:36:47.659 --> 01:36:48.501
don't know,

01:36:48.520 --> 01:36:49.381
the way it was explained to me,

01:36:49.440 --> 01:36:50.261
it seemed really smart.

01:36:50.322 --> 01:36:51.302
And it's like that is kind of cool

01:36:51.342 --> 01:36:52.623
because it allows you to separate,

01:36:53.163 --> 01:36:53.545
like I said,

01:36:53.564 --> 01:36:55.006
like the politics of the country from the

01:36:55.046 --> 01:36:55.966
national identity.

01:36:57.407 --> 01:36:57.807
So, yeah,

01:36:57.847 --> 01:36:59.009
I think there's kind of that understanding

01:36:59.029 --> 01:37:00.989
of like the royal family is really good

01:37:01.010 --> 01:37:01.730
for tourism.

01:37:01.770 --> 01:37:02.930
It's really good for business.

01:37:03.952 --> 01:37:05.273
It does benefit the country in a lot

01:37:05.313 --> 01:37:06.453
of intangible ways,

01:37:06.514 --> 01:37:09.115
but they kind of stay out of politics

01:37:09.456 --> 01:37:10.277
in that sense.

01:37:10.296 --> 01:37:10.377
So

01:37:12.518 --> 01:37:14.823
And I'm just reading a little bit quick

01:37:14.842 --> 01:37:16.846
about what powers the royal family.

01:37:17.506 --> 01:37:18.506
does have in the UK.

01:37:18.565 --> 01:37:19.447
It's kind of interesting.

01:37:20.067 --> 01:37:21.127
They do have that veto power.

01:37:21.587 --> 01:37:22.506
It's called royal.

01:37:22.868 --> 01:37:25.148
They can withhold royal assent, I guess.

01:37:25.608 --> 01:37:26.248
And indeed,

01:37:26.309 --> 01:37:27.889
they have not exercised that since

01:37:27.929 --> 01:37:28.969
seventeen oh eight.

01:37:29.529 --> 01:37:31.869
And pretty much all experts say, like,

01:37:32.109 --> 01:37:32.970
you know, if they did,

01:37:33.411 --> 01:37:34.831
there would be there would be a pretty

01:37:34.871 --> 01:37:35.570
big crisis.

01:37:35.951 --> 01:37:37.591
The government might just decide to get

01:37:37.652 --> 01:37:38.872
rid of the monarchy entirely,

01:37:38.891 --> 01:37:40.393
which they obviously wouldn't want.

01:37:40.752 --> 01:37:41.853
But I didn't know this.

01:37:41.893 --> 01:37:43.573
They also have a different mechanism

01:37:43.613 --> 01:37:43.913
called

01:37:44.734 --> 01:37:46.756
uh queen's consent or king's consent and

01:37:46.775 --> 01:37:49.256
they can vet bills before they're debated

01:37:49.297 --> 01:37:52.180
at all um and apparently that happens

01:37:52.279 --> 01:37:56.382
fairly often uh like queen elizabeth ii it

01:37:56.422 --> 01:37:58.703
says reviewed over a thousand laws using

01:37:58.724 --> 01:38:01.246
that power and has withheld consent in

01:38:01.265 --> 01:38:03.747
some cases so i guess technically maybe

01:38:03.787 --> 01:38:05.029
they could do something about it but now

01:38:05.069 --> 01:38:06.670
that we've reached this point where it's

01:38:06.710 --> 01:38:09.431
already like in law uh it's a little

01:38:09.492 --> 01:38:11.474
late for them to do anything about it

01:38:11.514 --> 01:38:12.914
unfortunately but

01:38:14.457 --> 01:38:16.737
Yeah, it seems like a strange...

01:38:17.136 --> 01:38:18.578
All of the monarchy stuff seems like a

01:38:18.618 --> 01:38:19.797
very strange system to me,

01:38:19.837 --> 01:38:22.438
so I don't fully understand it at all.

01:38:22.557 --> 01:38:23.479
Yeah.

01:38:23.559 --> 01:38:23.878
Listen,

01:38:24.939 --> 01:38:26.418
some random lady in puddles handing out

01:38:26.439 --> 01:38:27.918
weapons is no basis for a system of

01:38:27.958 --> 01:38:28.279
government.

01:38:28.300 --> 01:38:31.739
Sorry, I had to.

01:38:31.760 --> 01:38:34.600
Before we move on, Dr. Warface said,

01:38:35.480 --> 01:38:36.761
have you guys seen Ready Player One?

01:38:37.020 --> 01:38:37.961
It feels almost like that.

01:38:38.661 --> 01:38:40.042
Yeah, I read it.

01:38:40.122 --> 01:38:40.761
I didn't watch it,

01:38:40.822 --> 01:38:41.582
but there's definitely...

01:38:43.805 --> 01:38:45.527
It's frustrating because good sci-fi

01:38:45.606 --> 01:38:47.768
there's a, there's a, um,

01:38:47.908 --> 01:38:50.208
a good quote from, uh, stuff.

01:38:50.229 --> 01:38:51.309
They don't want you to know the,

01:38:51.389 --> 01:38:52.850
one of the hosts there always says that

01:38:53.470 --> 01:38:55.530
good sci-fi is only science fiction for a

01:38:55.591 --> 01:38:56.810
sort or certain period of time.

01:38:57.211 --> 01:38:58.271
So, I mean,

01:38:58.311 --> 01:39:00.033
there's definitely any good ways to like,

01:39:00.052 --> 01:39:01.052
you look at star Trek and there's a

01:39:01.092 --> 01:39:02.713
lot of stuff there that they predicted,

01:39:02.753 --> 01:39:03.993
like cell phones basically,

01:39:04.054 --> 01:39:05.994
and touch screens and all that kind of

01:39:06.034 --> 01:39:06.354
stuff.

01:39:06.395 --> 01:39:09.235
And so, I mean, yeah,

01:39:09.555 --> 01:39:10.756
unfortunately it'd be nice if more of the

01:39:10.777 --> 01:39:12.216
good stuff came true and,

01:39:12.497 --> 01:39:13.297
and less of the bad stuff.

01:39:14.452 --> 01:39:16.354
Yeah, wouldn't it?

01:39:16.394 --> 01:39:16.613
You know,

01:39:16.654 --> 01:39:18.756
like the social isolation and all that

01:39:18.775 --> 01:39:19.296
kind of stuff.

01:39:19.377 --> 01:39:22.000
But yeah,

01:39:22.020 --> 01:39:23.621
I think we'll move on to the forum

01:39:23.661 --> 01:39:23.961
updates.

01:39:23.980 --> 01:39:24.421
So in a minute,

01:39:24.442 --> 01:39:25.783
we'll start taking viewer questions.

01:39:26.283 --> 01:39:28.765
So the chat's been really chatty so far,

01:39:28.805 --> 01:39:29.827
which I really appreciate.

01:39:29.907 --> 01:39:30.568
And that's awesome.

01:39:30.627 --> 01:39:31.988
But if you guys have been holding onto

01:39:32.029 --> 01:39:32.670
any questions,

01:39:33.050 --> 01:39:34.150
now's the time to go ahead and drop

01:39:34.171 --> 01:39:34.671
them in the chat.

01:39:35.231 --> 01:39:36.273
And we'll circle back to those in a

01:39:36.332 --> 01:39:36.613
minute,

01:39:37.092 --> 01:39:38.474
but for now we're going to check on

01:39:38.493 --> 01:39:39.295
the community forum.

01:39:39.354 --> 01:39:40.716
And there were a lot of good threads

01:39:40.735 --> 01:39:41.695
this week, um,

01:39:41.756 --> 01:39:43.136
had a hard time narrowing it down to

01:39:43.157 --> 01:39:44.297
just a couple to discuss.

01:39:44.818 --> 01:39:46.019
But the first one we're going to talk

01:39:46.038 --> 01:39:48.701
about is that there has been a change

01:39:48.740 --> 01:39:50.402
to Apple's hide my email.

01:39:50.742 --> 01:39:52.023
Um, so this,

01:39:52.103 --> 01:39:53.623
this headline I think is just a little

01:39:53.644 --> 01:39:54.484
bit sensational.

01:39:54.564 --> 01:39:56.125
It says that they're making it useless.

01:39:56.145 --> 01:39:57.386
Um, but basically,

01:39:57.426 --> 01:39:58.587
so hide my email for those who don't

01:39:58.606 --> 01:39:58.787
know,

01:39:58.846 --> 01:40:00.207
it's a premium feature if you pay for

01:40:00.228 --> 01:40:00.688
iCloud.

01:40:01.467 --> 01:40:03.750
and it it's kind of like simple login

01:40:03.770 --> 01:40:05.350
or addy it allows you to create multiple

01:40:05.451 --> 01:40:07.051
email addresses that forward to your inbox

01:40:07.853 --> 01:40:11.095
but um the thing that they're changing is

01:40:11.234 --> 01:40:15.439
it used to be that uh it used

01:40:15.479 --> 01:40:18.560
to be that all icloud emails both regular

01:40:18.680 --> 01:40:23.163
and hide my went to icloud.com but now

01:40:23.224 --> 01:40:24.564
the hide my emails are going to go

01:40:24.604 --> 01:40:26.386
to private.icloud.com

01:40:26.926 --> 01:40:28.247
Um, which is going to make them really,

01:40:28.367 --> 01:40:30.689
really easy to block, uh,

01:40:30.729 --> 01:40:32.832
which I already kind of have this issue

01:40:32.851 --> 01:40:34.833
a little bit with, um, with websites.

01:40:34.934 --> 01:40:36.734
It's it's, uh,

01:40:36.774 --> 01:40:38.136
like I use simple login and I use

01:40:38.157 --> 01:40:39.957
a custom domain and sometimes it's

01:40:39.978 --> 01:40:41.380
something that I'm not super attached to.

01:40:41.439 --> 01:40:41.840
So I'm like, yeah,

01:40:41.859 --> 01:40:43.341
I'll use the simple login, uh,

01:40:43.502 --> 01:40:44.662
simple login.com or whatever.

01:40:45.342 --> 01:40:46.444
And they're like, no, you can't use that.

01:40:47.125 --> 01:40:48.105
But then I'll be like, okay,

01:40:48.126 --> 01:40:49.506
so I'll switch to my custom domain and

01:40:49.527 --> 01:40:50.188
it works just fine.

01:40:50.627 --> 01:40:51.788
Which is weird because they're still the

01:40:51.809 --> 01:40:52.850
same MX records, right?

01:40:52.869 --> 01:40:53.951
Like they're still both going to simple

01:40:53.990 --> 01:40:54.292
login,

01:40:54.631 --> 01:40:56.713
but they're clearly block listing it based

01:40:56.814 --> 01:40:58.475
on the actual address.

01:40:58.496 --> 01:41:00.216
So, um, personally,

01:41:00.337 --> 01:41:02.198
I can definitely see that happening for

01:41:02.238 --> 01:41:03.359
sure that they're just going to start

01:41:03.380 --> 01:41:03.940
block listing.

01:41:04.320 --> 01:41:05.862
Because, you know, I mentioned MX records,

01:41:05.902 --> 01:41:07.301
like in theory, that's one way.

01:41:07.421 --> 01:41:08.962
And I've only seen one website so far

01:41:09.002 --> 01:41:09.422
that did this,

01:41:09.483 --> 01:41:10.643
but there's probably others.

01:41:11.104 --> 01:41:11.944
Like in theory,

01:41:12.283 --> 01:41:14.064
a website could block all simple login,

01:41:14.125 --> 01:41:14.324
right?

01:41:14.364 --> 01:41:16.565
Or all Addy.io because they know that

01:41:16.586 --> 01:41:17.805
those are forwarding and they're not like

01:41:17.845 --> 01:41:18.806
real email addresses.

01:41:19.506 --> 01:41:21.127
They can't do that with the MX records

01:41:21.146 --> 01:41:21.667
of iCloud,

01:41:22.547 --> 01:41:24.288
but now they can with private.iCloud.

01:41:24.569 --> 01:41:27.710
So yeah, I don't know.

01:41:28.029 --> 01:41:28.829
This really sucked.

01:41:29.250 --> 01:41:29.911
There's really no...

01:41:32.679 --> 01:41:34.060
Apple hasn't said why they're doing this.

01:41:34.079 --> 01:41:35.239
Some people speculated that like,

01:41:35.260 --> 01:41:36.740
maybe they're running out of email

01:41:36.761 --> 01:41:37.060
addresses.

01:41:37.180 --> 01:41:39.322
Uh, I don't know how true that is,

01:41:39.381 --> 01:41:41.943
but yeah, it's, uh, this really sucks.

01:41:42.023 --> 01:41:42.443
I don't know.

01:41:42.462 --> 01:41:43.523
Have you ever used the,

01:41:43.543 --> 01:41:45.184
the hide my email thing from Apple?

01:41:45.484 --> 01:41:47.784
You know, I haven't used, uh,

01:41:47.904 --> 01:41:49.246
apples myself.

01:41:49.886 --> 01:41:50.145
Some,

01:41:50.365 --> 01:41:51.926
some apps that I've used in my iPhone

01:41:52.046 --> 01:41:54.467
do the sign in with Apple thing.

01:41:54.528 --> 01:41:56.488
I've used that on a couple of occasions

01:41:56.529 --> 01:41:56.668
when.

01:41:57.654 --> 01:42:01.414
Signing up via other means would be like

01:42:01.435 --> 01:42:03.095
a super annoying process depending on the

01:42:03.176 --> 01:42:03.956
app.

01:42:03.996 --> 01:42:06.296
Some are just really annoying to sign up

01:42:06.337 --> 01:42:08.438
for compared to sign up with Apple.

01:42:09.478 --> 01:42:09.998
But otherwise,

01:42:10.038 --> 01:42:13.140
I try to use my normal email aliases

01:42:13.319 --> 01:42:15.280
and my password manager whenever I can and

01:42:16.480 --> 01:42:18.261
not do Apple's and not do sign in

01:42:18.282 --> 01:42:18.681
with Apple.

01:42:20.341 --> 01:42:21.002
It's a bummer, though,

01:42:21.042 --> 01:42:24.106
because I do see a lot of people

01:42:24.967 --> 01:42:26.869
use their current solution as a way to

01:42:26.909 --> 01:42:28.452
get around exactly those blocks you were

01:42:28.471 --> 01:42:30.113
saying because you couldn't block at

01:42:30.274 --> 01:42:31.055
iCloud.com.

01:42:32.356 --> 01:42:33.418
So the fact that it was all on

01:42:33.439 --> 01:42:36.442
the same domain really gave legitimacy to

01:42:36.903 --> 01:42:38.664
all of those private aliases.

01:42:39.485 --> 01:42:42.128
I remember when the hide my email feature

01:42:42.168 --> 01:42:43.510
first came out for Apple,

01:42:43.630 --> 01:42:46.632
we talked about it on one of the

01:42:46.693 --> 01:42:51.618
earlier shows and on our forum that it

01:42:51.637 --> 01:42:52.279
was a good change,

01:42:52.298 --> 01:42:53.699
that they were kind of consolidating

01:42:53.720 --> 01:42:57.463
everything on one domain name and that

01:42:58.661 --> 01:43:01.002
know hopefully apple doing that would kind

01:43:01.061 --> 01:43:03.984
of cause a shift in the industry where

01:43:04.804 --> 01:43:07.985
sites would stop like rejecting these

01:43:08.365 --> 01:43:10.707
don't email aliases like simple login or

01:43:10.726 --> 01:43:13.368
whatever like entirely because you know

01:43:13.488 --> 01:43:15.609
apple was officially endorsing it now on

01:43:15.630 --> 01:43:17.951
the same domain so if you're not going

01:43:17.970 --> 01:43:19.171
to be able to stop that service why

01:43:19.211 --> 01:43:19.971
would you even bother

01:43:20.671 --> 01:43:23.055
continuing to maintain those blocks in

01:43:23.136 --> 01:43:26.902
general um obviously nothing like that is

01:43:26.921 --> 01:43:28.344
going to happen because these at

01:43:28.404 --> 01:43:31.269
private.iclub.com email addresses are

01:43:31.288 --> 01:43:32.971
going to be super easy to block just

01:43:33.051 --> 01:43:34.814
as easy as any of these other aliasing

01:43:34.835 --> 01:43:35.515
services so

01:43:36.975 --> 01:43:39.855
yeah it's a it's a shame that they're

01:43:39.876 --> 01:43:41.896
doing that doesn't really affect me

01:43:41.936 --> 01:43:44.198
personally, but I know a lot of people.

01:43:44.377 --> 01:43:45.238
That i've seen on the forum,

01:43:45.279 --> 01:43:46.840
this will impact a lot,

01:43:47.000 --> 01:43:48.640
and it was a very commonly used feature

01:43:48.699 --> 01:43:50.940
so it's a it's a shame that they're

01:43:50.961 --> 01:43:52.042
that they're changing it for sure.

01:43:53.916 --> 01:43:54.636
Part of me wonders,

01:43:54.695 --> 01:43:55.435
now that you mention it,

01:43:55.456 --> 01:43:56.737
do you think it was being abused?

01:43:56.777 --> 01:43:59.256
Because I just checked here, and it says,

01:43:59.457 --> 01:44:01.698
hide my email is available on every iCloud

01:44:01.717 --> 01:44:02.318
Plus plan,

01:44:02.757 --> 01:44:04.238
and the cheapest one starts at a dollar

01:44:04.259 --> 01:44:04.618
a month.

01:44:05.259 --> 01:44:05.798
Yeah.

01:44:05.859 --> 01:44:08.000
So I wonder if maybe that was part

01:44:08.039 --> 01:44:09.800
of the reasoning?

01:44:10.439 --> 01:44:10.619
I mean,

01:44:10.640 --> 01:44:12.240
it's certainly possible that that's what

01:44:12.261 --> 01:44:13.360
they're trying to avoid.

01:44:13.461 --> 01:44:17.622
I don't know exactly what their motivation

01:44:17.681 --> 01:44:17.942
is.

01:44:19.662 --> 01:44:20.943
In my experience, I will say...

01:44:22.984 --> 01:44:24.033
even a dollar a month.

01:44:24.349 --> 01:44:27.350
That is usually like enough to dissuade

01:44:27.829 --> 01:44:29.510
most people who are going to use things

01:44:29.550 --> 01:44:33.470
maliciously because usually people who are

01:44:33.511 --> 01:44:35.731
going to abuse a service are also very

01:44:36.051 --> 01:44:38.212
cheap and will never pay even a dollar

01:44:38.231 --> 01:44:39.332
a month for the service.

01:44:39.353 --> 01:44:40.832
So I don't know.

01:44:40.853 --> 01:44:42.432
I mean, that's fair,

01:44:42.472 --> 01:44:43.474
but I'm also thinking about like

01:44:43.514 --> 01:44:44.894
professional scammers where it's like a

01:44:44.934 --> 01:44:45.554
dollar a month.

01:44:45.594 --> 01:44:45.713
Yeah,

01:44:45.734 --> 01:44:46.594
I'm going to make that back in the

01:44:46.613 --> 01:44:48.875
first hour as soon as somebody falls for

01:44:48.914 --> 01:44:49.295
my scam.

01:44:49.314 --> 01:44:50.635
Yeah, maybe.

01:44:52.536 --> 01:44:53.076
I just don't know.

01:44:53.815 --> 01:44:53.956
But

01:44:55.730 --> 01:44:56.070
Yeah.

01:44:56.131 --> 01:44:56.371
Yeah.

01:44:56.390 --> 01:44:56.731
Like I said,

01:44:56.752 --> 01:44:58.252
they didn't state an official reason.

01:44:58.292 --> 01:45:00.113
So it's, um, I mean,

01:45:00.153 --> 01:45:00.793
the thing is though,

01:45:00.913 --> 01:45:04.376
like if you're gonna spend money,

01:45:04.395 --> 01:45:06.296
you could just get a custom domain in

01:45:06.537 --> 01:45:07.237
most cases.

01:45:07.377 --> 01:45:07.557
They're,

01:45:07.637 --> 01:45:09.658
they're almost never blocked in the same

01:45:09.698 --> 01:45:11.819
way that aliasing solutions are because,

01:45:11.840 --> 01:45:13.480
uh,

01:45:13.520 --> 01:45:15.221
most services don't want to block like

01:45:15.242 --> 01:45:17.283
people's work emails basically.

01:45:17.302 --> 01:45:18.463
And that could be any domain.

01:45:18.503 --> 01:45:19.484
So, um,

01:45:20.144 --> 01:45:22.305
using a custom domain is the easiest way

01:45:22.345 --> 01:45:24.287
to get unlimited emails.

01:45:24.426 --> 01:45:24.606
So.

01:45:26.333 --> 01:45:27.835
I don't see what impact this would have

01:45:27.875 --> 01:45:32.637
on super large operations.

01:45:32.717 --> 01:45:33.498
Yeah, that's a good point.

01:45:34.659 --> 01:45:34.899
Yeah,

01:45:35.060 --> 01:45:36.740
I think just to kind of round off

01:45:36.780 --> 01:45:37.201
that thought,

01:45:37.280 --> 01:45:39.382
I think our official recommendations for

01:45:39.743 --> 01:45:41.984
Masked Email are still SimpleLogin, Addy.

01:45:42.085 --> 01:45:44.485
There may be another one I'm forgetting,

01:45:44.525 --> 01:45:45.926
but I don't think HideMy was ever one

01:45:45.947 --> 01:45:46.188
of them.

01:45:47.427 --> 01:45:50.310
I've had good luck with custom domains.

01:45:51.451 --> 01:45:52.671
I like them because they're portable.

01:45:52.912 --> 01:45:54.533
I know there's some concerns about like,

01:45:54.673 --> 01:45:55.875
couldn't you be more trackable,

01:45:55.935 --> 01:45:58.896
which I think maybe with the rise of

01:45:59.037 --> 01:45:59.478
AI,

01:45:59.898 --> 01:46:01.099
I could see that being a good argument.

01:46:01.118 --> 01:46:02.420
But I think having the data sovereignty

01:46:02.439 --> 01:46:04.201
and the portability is probably worth it.

01:46:04.220 --> 01:46:06.182
And I think there's probably this is just

01:46:06.222 --> 01:46:06.844
me speculating.

01:46:06.863 --> 01:46:08.005
I think there's probably not a lot of

01:46:08.145 --> 01:46:09.905
automated tracking going on in that sense.

01:46:10.145 --> 01:46:10.326
So.

01:46:11.226 --> 01:46:12.467
I just don't think it's scalable to make

01:46:12.507 --> 01:46:13.068
it worthwhile.

01:46:13.469 --> 01:46:18.212
So but yeah,

01:46:18.292 --> 01:46:19.613
and then our other I'm going to turn

01:46:19.653 --> 01:46:21.654
this other post over to you because there

01:46:21.675 --> 01:46:23.456
was a discussion about shelter.

01:46:23.576 --> 01:46:26.057
And I know we kind of talked about

01:46:26.078 --> 01:46:27.859
that quite a bit in the privacy guides

01:46:27.918 --> 01:46:28.399
chat.

01:46:28.720 --> 01:46:30.360
And I believe you said you're working on

01:46:30.421 --> 01:46:31.221
something as well.

01:46:31.301 --> 01:46:32.563
So I'm going to let you take this

01:46:32.622 --> 01:46:33.082
discussion.

01:46:34.435 --> 01:46:34.755
Yeah,

01:46:35.095 --> 01:46:37.917
a lot of stuff going on with work

01:46:37.936 --> 01:46:38.417
profiles,

01:46:38.438 --> 01:46:40.458
at least in my life at the moment.

01:46:41.920 --> 01:46:43.801
We've talked a bit about Shelter for a

01:46:43.841 --> 01:46:46.802
few weeks now because there are some calls

01:46:46.842 --> 01:46:48.484
to remove it that we've seen on the

01:46:48.524 --> 01:46:48.845
forum.

01:46:50.404 --> 01:46:53.707
I personally think that work profiles

01:46:53.927 --> 01:46:57.050
serve an important purpose on Android.

01:46:57.530 --> 01:46:59.391
It's very convenient to have more than,

01:46:59.631 --> 01:47:02.514
I mean, even more than two private spaces.

01:47:02.614 --> 01:47:03.015
I mean,

01:47:03.034 --> 01:47:05.237
because you have the new private space

01:47:05.277 --> 01:47:06.537
feature in Android now,

01:47:06.557 --> 01:47:08.759
so that creates one basically separate

01:47:09.439 --> 01:47:10.501
profile you can access.

01:47:11.220 --> 01:47:12.280
from your main profile,

01:47:12.600 --> 01:47:13.841
work profiles give you a third.

01:47:14.202 --> 01:47:14.822
But also,

01:47:14.881 --> 01:47:16.801
there are a lot of Android devices out

01:47:16.822 --> 01:47:18.422
there where you can't have a private space

01:47:18.523 --> 01:47:18.882
at all.

01:47:18.962 --> 01:47:20.502
And so being able to get that second

01:47:21.302 --> 01:47:25.363
profile within your main profile is a huge

01:47:26.604 --> 01:47:29.524
convenience over either creating multiple

01:47:29.645 --> 01:47:31.765
user accounts or, again,

01:47:31.805 --> 01:47:34.326
some Android phones don't even support

01:47:34.786 --> 01:47:35.706
that super well.

01:47:36.706 --> 01:47:38.686
So having that work profile function

01:47:39.827 --> 01:47:42.509
or ability is still useful to a lot

01:47:42.548 --> 01:47:44.970
of people, especially, I mean,

01:47:45.051 --> 01:47:48.353
even like we've seen threads from Graphene

01:47:48.432 --> 01:47:49.173
OS, for example,

01:47:49.213 --> 01:47:50.835
on social media talking about like some of

01:47:50.854 --> 01:47:53.095
the benefits of work profiles.

01:47:54.056 --> 01:47:56.319
It seems like Graphene OS's opinion is

01:47:56.378 --> 01:47:59.180
that they won't be as useful once they

01:47:59.701 --> 01:48:01.341
build a feature that will allow you to

01:48:01.402 --> 01:48:01.762
have

01:48:02.523 --> 01:48:04.543
many more private spaces, basically.

01:48:04.583 --> 01:48:06.083
I think that they've said they want to

01:48:06.224 --> 01:48:08.244
enable a feature that lets you have

01:48:08.345 --> 01:48:09.525
sixteen private spaces,

01:48:09.546 --> 01:48:12.667
which would be great and probably negate

01:48:12.686 --> 01:48:14.006
the need for a work profile for a

01:48:14.046 --> 01:48:14.606
lot of people.

01:48:15.228 --> 01:48:18.448
But that isn't the case in the meantime.

01:48:18.628 --> 01:48:21.989
And there are use cases to having three

01:48:22.550 --> 01:48:24.551
profiles accessible onto your phone at all

01:48:24.591 --> 01:48:26.490
times that you can independently lock and

01:48:26.551 --> 01:48:27.731
unlock, etc.

01:48:29.112 --> 01:48:30.752
But it does annoy me that

01:48:32.259 --> 01:48:38.283
shelter and island are just not the best

01:48:38.423 --> 01:48:40.845
apps they they aren't like stellar in

01:48:40.886 --> 01:48:42.728
terms of security they aren't stellar in

01:48:42.768 --> 01:48:46.610
terms of cross-profile isolation and i've

01:48:46.631 --> 01:48:49.813
been trying to use um my android phone

01:48:49.853 --> 01:48:51.935
more and i have not really liked having

01:48:51.975 --> 01:48:54.457
to use shelter because i just did not

01:48:54.556 --> 01:48:55.738
trust it and i think it could have

01:48:55.757 --> 01:48:57.279
a lot of problems because it opens

01:48:58.420 --> 01:49:01.942
a lot of communication between the

01:49:01.962 --> 01:49:04.583
profiles, which isn't necessary,

01:49:05.203 --> 01:49:08.086
which I definitely found out the last two

01:49:08.105 --> 01:49:09.326
weeks, and it's not super great.

01:49:12.408 --> 01:49:13.207
Yeah, personally,

01:49:13.247 --> 01:49:15.788
just driven by that frustration with

01:49:15.849 --> 01:49:16.269
Shelter,

01:49:16.389 --> 01:49:18.970
I have been working on my own alternative

01:49:18.989 --> 01:49:21.050
to Shelter, which isn't, you know,

01:49:21.070 --> 01:49:22.171
I'm not ready to put it out yet,

01:49:22.190 --> 01:49:23.230
but I have been working on it a

01:49:23.291 --> 01:49:23.530
lot.

01:49:24.230 --> 01:49:26.671
I've posted some information to like my

01:49:26.731 --> 01:49:27.511
GitHub, for example.

01:49:27.612 --> 01:49:29.073
At the bottom of the Shelter alternative

01:49:29.113 --> 01:49:29.332
post,

01:49:29.353 --> 01:49:31.813
I actually linked to it because I did,

01:49:32.753 --> 01:49:33.793
even though I haven't published any

01:49:33.833 --> 01:49:34.713
releases of that app,

01:49:34.793 --> 01:49:36.975
I published kind of a comparison between

01:49:37.744 --> 01:49:38.645
the thing that I'm building,

01:49:38.725 --> 01:49:41.086
and shelter mostly to demonstrate that a

01:49:41.127 --> 01:49:45.467
lot of the things that shelter does are

01:49:45.507 --> 01:49:48.090
not strictly necessary.

01:49:48.489 --> 01:49:50.350
So I mean, the comparison,

01:49:50.371 --> 01:49:53.171
if you look at that comparison.md file in

01:49:53.212 --> 01:49:54.652
the repo, for example,

01:49:56.737 --> 01:49:58.399
It's a long document because I've taken a

01:49:58.439 --> 01:49:59.340
lot of notes so far,

01:49:59.359 --> 01:50:00.680
and I've looked at a lot of different

01:50:00.701 --> 01:50:03.603
things in Shelter's source code to try and

01:50:03.643 --> 01:50:05.864
find out if I should even work on

01:50:05.885 --> 01:50:06.666
this app as well.

01:50:06.706 --> 01:50:08.386
And my conclusion was like, oh, yeah,

01:50:08.487 --> 01:50:08.948
actually,

01:50:10.128 --> 01:50:11.350
there are a lot of things that can

01:50:11.390 --> 01:50:14.011
be done much better when it comes to

01:50:14.391 --> 01:50:15.012
work profiles.

01:50:15.052 --> 01:50:15.712
So hopefully...

01:50:16.753 --> 01:50:18.694
somebody finds that helpful.

01:50:18.755 --> 01:50:19.694
But at the very least,

01:50:19.914 --> 01:50:22.614
I will be switching to that because I

01:50:22.635 --> 01:50:25.055
will trust it a lot more than shelter.

01:50:27.076 --> 01:50:27.315
Yeah,

01:50:28.037 --> 01:50:29.197
that's kind of all I have to say

01:50:29.277 --> 01:50:30.476
about work profiles.

01:50:30.777 --> 01:50:33.217
I have also tried to use private spaces

01:50:33.278 --> 01:50:33.478
a bit,

01:50:33.497 --> 01:50:35.318
but I haven't used them too extensively.

01:50:35.398 --> 01:50:36.679
Nate,

01:50:37.259 --> 01:50:39.838
you said that you use private spaces a

01:50:39.878 --> 01:50:40.498
bit more,

01:50:41.020 --> 01:50:42.220
and maybe you can share some of your

01:50:42.260 --> 01:50:42.880
experiences

01:50:43.460 --> 01:50:46.440
of those compared to compared to shelter?

01:50:47.961 --> 01:50:49.261
Yeah, um,

01:50:49.381 --> 01:50:50.782
I just started using private spaces

01:50:50.822 --> 01:50:51.162
recently,

01:50:51.202 --> 01:50:52.682
I'm kind of doing the whole thing where

01:50:52.863 --> 01:50:53.063
you,

01:50:53.802 --> 01:50:55.463
you put all your proprietary apps in the

01:50:55.503 --> 01:50:56.123
private space.

01:50:57.684 --> 01:50:59.104
I've had issues with

01:51:00.614 --> 01:51:01.774
um, voice to text,

01:51:02.074 --> 01:51:05.296
like Duolingo would not recognize that I

01:51:05.315 --> 01:51:06.716
was talking to it during the voice

01:51:06.756 --> 01:51:08.317
exercises, uh,

01:51:08.337 --> 01:51:09.176
which is really frustrating.

01:51:09.197 --> 01:51:10.377
Cause I know it worked because I could

01:51:10.398 --> 01:51:11.837
open the camera and I could like film

01:51:11.877 --> 01:51:12.217
a video.

01:51:12.238 --> 01:51:13.078
And when I played it back,

01:51:13.217 --> 01:51:14.738
I heard myself talking in the camera.

01:51:15.418 --> 01:51:17.338
So like in the private space.

01:51:17.378 --> 01:51:18.380
So I know it worked.

01:51:18.399 --> 01:51:19.920
Um, but I just,

01:51:20.000 --> 01:51:21.439
I couldn't get voice to work for some

01:51:21.460 --> 01:51:21.761
reason.

01:51:22.600 --> 01:51:23.100
And, um,

01:51:24.341 --> 01:51:25.742
But other than that, I mean, it's,

01:51:25.801 --> 01:51:26.721
it's been pretty smooth.

01:51:27.141 --> 01:51:28.542
They say not to use it if you

01:51:28.582 --> 01:51:30.863
rely on, um, notifications,

01:51:30.923 --> 01:51:32.003
but in my experience,

01:51:32.024 --> 01:51:33.465
the notifications have been pretty timely.

01:51:34.045 --> 01:51:34.305
Granted,

01:51:34.345 --> 01:51:35.765
I don't have a lot of notifications turned

01:51:35.826 --> 01:51:36.945
on and I also don't need them to

01:51:36.966 --> 01:51:38.386
be super timely most of the time,

01:51:38.426 --> 01:51:41.028
but I really haven't had any issues with

01:51:41.307 --> 01:51:42.287
the private space yet.

01:51:42.747 --> 01:51:44.868
Um, other than the, the Duolingo thing,

01:51:44.929 --> 01:51:46.449
but I will say, uh,

01:51:48.171 --> 01:51:50.632
I feel a little bit more not crazy

01:51:51.233 --> 01:51:52.935
hearing you say that Shelter is maybe not

01:51:53.055 --> 01:51:53.914
as secure as it should be,

01:51:53.935 --> 01:51:55.997
because I used to use Shelter.

01:51:57.658 --> 01:51:59.099
And it's one of those things where when

01:51:59.139 --> 01:51:59.800
something goes wrong,

01:51:59.819 --> 01:52:01.381
you can never figure out where it went

01:52:01.421 --> 01:52:01.661
wrong,

01:52:01.680 --> 01:52:03.903
because I used to have a Calix phone

01:52:03.922 --> 01:52:05.163
with Shelter,

01:52:05.764 --> 01:52:08.365
and I had a personal signal and a

01:52:08.426 --> 01:52:11.167
privacy signal for different things.

01:52:11.889 --> 01:52:12.770
And one time,

01:52:13.911 --> 01:52:15.412
I want to say it was the privacy

01:52:15.452 --> 01:52:16.792
signal, or maybe it was the personal one,

01:52:17.863 --> 01:52:19.144
But I remember I opened it one time

01:52:19.323 --> 01:52:21.265
and all of my contacts were there from

01:52:21.305 --> 01:52:21.925
the other signal.

01:52:22.864 --> 01:52:24.386
And not the conversation themselves for

01:52:24.405 --> 01:52:24.805
the record,

01:52:25.546 --> 01:52:27.145
but it freaked me out because I was

01:52:27.166 --> 01:52:28.667
like, oh my God, can people see this?

01:52:28.827 --> 01:52:30.827
Can people see, is there cross content?

01:52:30.886 --> 01:52:31.646
And as far as I could tell,

01:52:31.726 --> 01:52:32.386
nobody could.

01:52:32.506 --> 01:52:34.068
Again, it didn't start any conversations,

01:52:34.387 --> 01:52:35.728
but it's almost like when you move signal

01:52:35.768 --> 01:52:37.448
to a new device and you see all

01:52:37.469 --> 01:52:38.349
the conversations there,

01:52:38.368 --> 01:52:39.448
but there's no content there,

01:52:39.469 --> 01:52:40.088
or maybe that's just me,

01:52:40.109 --> 01:52:41.088
because I'm a psycho who doesn't move

01:52:41.128 --> 01:52:41.449
content.

01:52:41.930 --> 01:52:42.890
But it was like that.

01:52:42.930 --> 01:52:44.130
It was like all the conversations were

01:52:44.149 --> 01:52:45.470
there and if I'd have sent a message,

01:52:45.911 --> 01:52:46.970
it probably would have popped up.

01:52:47.671 --> 01:52:49.091
But it just like that freaked me out

01:52:49.131 --> 01:52:49.911
enough to where I was like,

01:52:50.011 --> 01:52:51.832
I'm not messing with this anymore.

01:52:51.891 --> 01:52:54.131
Like, that was not cool.

01:52:54.152 --> 01:52:54.712
So ever since then,

01:52:54.752 --> 01:52:55.893
I think I switched over to using like

01:52:55.932 --> 01:52:57.432
Molly and Signal or something like that.

01:52:57.472 --> 01:52:58.972
Just I started doing things differently.

01:52:58.993 --> 01:53:00.212
But yeah, that was not a fun experience.

01:53:00.273 --> 01:53:01.293
I gave me a heart attack.

01:53:01.314 --> 01:53:03.673
So yeah, stuff like that.

01:53:03.713 --> 01:53:04.613
If somebody can fix that.

01:53:05.134 --> 01:53:06.333
And the reason I never reported it is

01:53:06.354 --> 01:53:08.414
because I guess like who's who's at fault

01:53:08.435 --> 01:53:08.595
there?

01:53:08.614 --> 01:53:09.635
Was that a Calix issue?

01:53:09.675 --> 01:53:11.675
Was that a was that a shelter issue?

01:53:11.694 --> 01:53:12.855
Was that an Android issue?

01:53:12.876 --> 01:53:13.916
Was that a signal issue?

01:53:14.877 --> 01:53:17.262
Um, I don't know, but it was, uh,

01:53:17.283 --> 01:53:18.988
it was not fun and there's definitely room

01:53:19.007 --> 01:53:20.091
for improvement somewhere.

01:53:20.131 --> 01:53:21.756
So, yeah.

01:53:21.796 --> 01:53:22.197
Hard to say.

01:53:23.456 --> 01:53:25.756
I'm hoping eventually Graphene OS has that

01:53:25.817 --> 01:53:26.577
private space feature.

01:53:26.957 --> 01:53:30.099
An advantage of private spaces is that you

01:53:30.118 --> 01:53:33.979
can create them in secondary users on

01:53:34.020 --> 01:53:35.121
Graphene OS, for example.

01:53:35.220 --> 01:53:36.480
I guess I don't know how stock Android

01:53:36.520 --> 01:53:36.661
works.

01:53:36.681 --> 01:53:38.162
I haven't used it in a while.

01:53:38.542 --> 01:53:40.922
But work profiles,

01:53:40.943 --> 01:53:43.604
you can only make on your main profile.

01:53:45.425 --> 01:53:49.105
So I've generally when I've used Android,

01:53:49.345 --> 01:53:50.985
I have wanted to have a setup where

01:53:51.006 --> 01:53:54.067
like I have Google Play services on the

01:53:54.127 --> 01:53:56.327
main profile and then non Google stuff in

01:53:56.386 --> 01:53:57.908
the private space rather than the other

01:53:57.948 --> 01:53:58.408
way around.

01:53:58.807 --> 01:54:01.667
But if you do that on your owner

01:54:01.688 --> 01:54:02.247
profile,

01:54:02.668 --> 01:54:04.229
the main profile on your phone has like

01:54:04.349 --> 01:54:06.908
more privileges than all of the secondary

01:54:06.988 --> 01:54:07.229
users.

01:54:07.289 --> 01:54:09.470
So I always find that kind of problematic.

01:54:09.810 --> 01:54:11.829
And I think that's why most people swap

01:54:11.850 --> 01:54:13.291
it around and keep all their Google Play

01:54:13.310 --> 01:54:13.930
stuff isolated.

01:54:14.011 --> 01:54:14.190
But

01:54:14.911 --> 01:54:15.712
With private spaces,

01:54:16.171 --> 01:54:17.332
I can do that because I can just

01:54:17.353 --> 01:54:19.675
have Google Play and the main profile of

01:54:19.734 --> 01:54:21.657
the second user and then have a private

01:54:21.697 --> 01:54:24.219
space separate from the owner's stuff.

01:54:26.661 --> 01:54:30.064
I know that's how Cider Burritos does it.

01:54:30.104 --> 01:54:30.644
He has a...

01:54:31.863 --> 01:54:32.923
like kind of like we would recommend

01:54:32.944 --> 01:54:34.323
setting up a computer, like, you know,

01:54:34.344 --> 01:54:35.664
there's your admin account,

01:54:36.024 --> 01:54:37.626
but then make a secondary user account and

01:54:37.645 --> 01:54:38.527
do everything in there.

01:54:39.127 --> 01:54:39.247
Um,

01:54:39.506 --> 01:54:40.707
he's got a video where that's how he

01:54:40.787 --> 01:54:43.229
uses graphene is he's got an admin account

01:54:43.250 --> 01:54:44.390
that he basically never uses.

01:54:44.449 --> 01:54:45.470
I think he only uses it to like

01:54:45.490 --> 01:54:47.032
install things and push them to the user

01:54:47.072 --> 01:54:47.891
account or something like that.

01:54:47.912 --> 01:54:48.813
It's been a while since I've seen the

01:54:48.853 --> 01:54:49.153
video,

01:54:49.233 --> 01:54:51.173
but that's been a kind of common setup

01:54:51.213 --> 01:54:54.416
that I've seen as well.

01:54:54.435 --> 01:54:56.537
Cool.

01:54:56.596 --> 01:54:56.976
Alrighty.

01:54:58.018 --> 01:54:58.278
Um,

01:54:59.338 --> 01:55:00.760
did you have anything else to add to

01:55:00.779 --> 01:55:01.220
that one or.

01:55:02.011 --> 01:55:02.912
I don't know if I have too much

01:55:03.051 --> 01:55:04.932
else to say,

01:55:05.592 --> 01:55:08.095
unless people have questions about any of

01:55:08.114 --> 01:55:08.614
that stuff.

01:55:08.675 --> 01:55:13.298
But I'm hoping that we can get away

01:55:13.338 --> 01:55:15.539
from shelter and use something else.

01:55:15.699 --> 01:55:18.462
But I guess we'll see if it all

01:55:18.502 --> 01:55:19.141
works out or not.

01:55:21.701 --> 01:55:23.923
for sure yeah that's definitely one of the

01:55:23.944 --> 01:55:25.364
most powerful things that i like about

01:55:25.385 --> 01:55:27.146
android is that ability to have multiple

01:55:27.186 --> 01:55:30.331
profiles and yeah work apps and private

01:55:30.371 --> 01:55:32.252
spaces and something you can't do on

01:55:32.353 --> 01:55:37.599
iphone which is super awesome so yeah i

01:55:37.618 --> 01:55:39.541
guess with that we'll move into uh q

01:55:39.701 --> 01:55:40.822
a um

01:55:41.653 --> 01:55:42.913
I don't think we have much right now.

01:55:43.014 --> 01:55:43.694
Cause we've been, uh,

01:55:43.713 --> 01:55:45.395
we've been taking questions as we go.

01:55:45.775 --> 01:55:46.036
Yeah.

01:55:46.055 --> 01:55:47.796
And so normally we start with questions on

01:55:47.817 --> 01:55:49.217
the forum from paying members,

01:55:49.297 --> 01:55:51.520
but it looks like there was a brief

01:55:51.560 --> 01:55:53.201
discussion, um, where just people were,

01:55:53.240 --> 01:55:54.662
cause you know, we posted this story.

01:55:55.021 --> 01:55:56.222
Uh, we always post,

01:55:56.283 --> 01:55:57.644
we try to post the stories as soon

01:55:57.703 --> 01:55:59.506
or like the,

01:55:59.546 --> 01:56:01.567
so we try to post a thread as

01:56:01.606 --> 01:56:02.427
quickly as we can.

01:56:02.507 --> 01:56:03.689
I just realized my alarm's going off.

01:56:03.708 --> 01:56:04.168
Apologies.

01:56:05.560 --> 01:56:05.739
Well,

01:56:05.779 --> 01:56:08.461
we try to post these livestream threads

01:56:08.980 --> 01:56:10.860
middle of the week based on the best

01:56:10.881 --> 01:56:12.242
story that we've found so far.

01:56:12.282 --> 01:56:13.542
We were hoping, I think,

01:56:13.601 --> 01:56:16.682
that Graphene OS would end up being

01:56:16.722 --> 01:56:18.403
available, at least in the alpha preview,

01:56:18.422 --> 01:56:21.423
so I would have a chance to test

01:56:21.484 --> 01:56:21.764
it out,

01:56:21.804 --> 01:56:22.863
but I did not get a chance to

01:56:22.884 --> 01:56:24.204
test it out because it's still not

01:56:24.244 --> 01:56:24.725
available.

01:56:25.444 --> 01:56:28.386
over the air, so that's a bit different.

01:56:28.606 --> 01:56:29.967
I think the discussion in that forum

01:56:29.988 --> 01:56:33.289
thread was basically wondering when the

01:56:33.390 --> 01:56:34.791
stable builds will come out.

01:56:35.190 --> 01:56:37.412
I don't know what Grafinois' track record

01:56:37.431 --> 01:56:39.573
is when it comes to stable releases.

01:56:39.654 --> 01:56:41.314
I don't think it takes that long,

01:56:41.375 --> 01:56:44.036
but it might spend a good amount of

01:56:44.076 --> 01:56:46.837
time in the alpha or beta stages before

01:56:46.858 --> 01:56:48.998
we get to a full stable release.

01:56:49.159 --> 01:56:51.060
I don't... Somebody else could...

01:56:52.139 --> 01:56:53.301
remind me of their track record.

01:56:53.640 --> 01:56:54.842
I just know that they are very quick

01:56:54.863 --> 01:56:57.827
about getting something out right away.

01:56:58.007 --> 01:57:00.011
But whether they consider it stable,

01:57:00.110 --> 01:57:01.372
I am less.

01:57:01.872 --> 01:57:02.814
I'm a bit more fuzzy on

01:57:07.045 --> 01:57:08.524
Yeah, I'm not super positive myself.

01:57:08.585 --> 01:57:08.885
Cause I,

01:57:09.045 --> 01:57:11.006
I follow the releases on RSS just so

01:57:11.025 --> 01:57:12.286
I can keep updated with the project.

01:57:12.305 --> 01:57:14.426
And I know usually, um,

01:57:14.445 --> 01:57:15.327
the way they work is like,

01:57:15.386 --> 01:57:16.747
that's their announcement that like they

01:57:16.766 --> 01:57:18.527
pushed it to alpha or beta or something.

01:57:19.146 --> 01:57:20.148
And then after a couple of days,

01:57:20.188 --> 01:57:21.188
if nobody has any issues,

01:57:21.207 --> 01:57:22.207
they push it to the next stage.

01:57:22.228 --> 01:57:23.127
And then after a couple of days it

01:57:23.167 --> 01:57:23.967
goes out to public.

01:57:24.007 --> 01:57:26.029
So I don't know the exact timeline,

01:57:26.048 --> 01:57:29.529
but yeah, I usually see the, um,

01:57:29.649 --> 01:57:31.189
I usually see the, the announcement.

01:57:31.949 --> 01:57:32.130
I mean,

01:57:32.149 --> 01:57:33.250
the announcement's already out and

01:57:33.369 --> 01:57:33.949
Android,

01:57:33.970 --> 01:57:35.011
just came out a couple of days ago,

01:57:35.051 --> 01:57:36.871
so they're, they're very quick for sure.

01:57:40.389 --> 01:57:41.733
We got a question here that I think

01:57:41.773 --> 01:57:42.574
is a good thing to

01:57:44.467 --> 01:57:47.229
cover really quick um what makes someone

01:57:47.289 --> 01:57:48.810
think that using a private space to do

01:57:48.829 --> 01:57:50.971
things privately when they have like a

01:57:51.051 --> 01:57:53.813
personal email on a separate proprietary

01:57:53.932 --> 01:57:55.814
profile that used for like google and

01:57:55.894 --> 01:57:58.916
stuff um of course this isn't in anywhere

01:57:58.935 --> 01:58:01.917
possible with iphones on android uh the

01:58:01.938 --> 01:58:05.460
private spaces are completely separate

01:58:05.760 --> 01:58:07.461
users basically they just show up in the

01:58:07.501 --> 01:58:09.921
same profile so there's total isolation

01:58:10.002 --> 01:58:12.984
between that the advantage of um

01:58:13.863 --> 01:58:15.225
not doing it the way that I said

01:58:15.265 --> 01:58:17.405
and putting Google stuff inside the

01:58:17.445 --> 01:58:19.225
private space or the work profile instead

01:58:19.265 --> 01:58:21.667
is that you can turn off a private

01:58:21.707 --> 01:58:23.268
space or a work profile when you're not

01:58:23.387 --> 01:58:23.747
using it.

01:58:23.807 --> 01:58:24.988
So that's a good way.

01:58:25.349 --> 01:58:31.412
That's a commonly used way to limit how

01:58:31.452 --> 01:58:34.193
much Google can access at any given time.

01:58:34.212 --> 01:58:36.033
So it really depends on your goals.

01:58:36.514 --> 01:58:36.734
But

01:58:37.989 --> 01:58:40.612
yeah having i mean it just depends on

01:58:40.671 --> 01:58:42.434
what you're trying to do mobile phones are

01:58:42.493 --> 01:58:45.055
not super private in general i can't uh

01:58:45.176 --> 01:58:48.298
stress this enough because they uh just

01:58:49.000 --> 01:58:51.362
are tracking machines there's so many ways

01:58:51.402 --> 01:58:53.724
that they can be tracked and tied to

01:58:53.764 --> 01:58:55.965
you uh no matter like what you do

01:58:56.045 --> 01:58:58.568
on them so there's all sorts of problems

01:58:58.587 --> 01:59:01.350
kind of inherent to the platform if you're

01:59:01.489 --> 01:59:02.711
super concerned about

01:59:03.912 --> 01:59:06.018
like being tracked by your account or by

01:59:06.097 --> 01:59:08.744
other apps like google play services

01:59:09.568 --> 01:59:11.131
there's really not much you can do about

01:59:11.152 --> 01:59:12.534
that in the same profile but

01:59:13.706 --> 01:59:15.426
The reason it's more private is because

01:59:15.447 --> 01:59:17.127
since those profiles are completely

01:59:17.188 --> 01:59:17.707
separated,

01:59:17.768 --> 01:59:19.970
if you have Google Play installed in one

01:59:20.010 --> 01:59:20.329
of them,

01:59:20.850 --> 01:59:24.512
it literally cannot even see any of the

01:59:24.632 --> 01:59:26.833
apps that are installed in the other

01:59:26.993 --> 01:59:29.756
profile or connect to them in any way,

01:59:29.876 --> 01:59:32.317
which is... I mean,

01:59:32.978 --> 01:59:34.759
I think that's a huge privacy boost for

01:59:34.899 --> 01:59:36.800
sure because it just lets you do things

01:59:36.920 --> 01:59:39.521
more selectively.

01:59:39.601 --> 01:59:40.601
With stock Android,

01:59:40.622 --> 01:59:42.923
it's kind of an all-or-nothing approach to

01:59:42.963 --> 01:59:43.144
like...

01:59:44.115 --> 01:59:45.657
You have Google Play services installed,

01:59:45.676 --> 01:59:47.278
and it has to see all of your

01:59:47.297 --> 01:59:48.099
data, basically,

01:59:48.118 --> 01:59:49.380
and there's nothing you can really do

01:59:49.399 --> 01:59:49.739
about it.

01:59:50.000 --> 01:59:52.061
Whereas these profiles give you some

01:59:52.101 --> 01:59:53.863
separation if you can do that.

01:59:53.903 --> 01:59:55.163
But it depends on how well you can

01:59:55.743 --> 01:59:57.005
compartmentalize your stuff,

01:59:57.045 --> 02:00:00.006
because if you need all of your apps

02:00:00.027 --> 02:00:01.368
to be in the same profile for some

02:00:01.427 --> 02:00:01.708
reason,

02:00:01.729 --> 02:00:04.250
then obviously it's going to have less

02:00:04.570 --> 02:00:05.011
benefits.

02:00:05.051 --> 02:00:07.192
So it kind of comes down to how

02:00:07.853 --> 02:00:10.175
you use your phone.

02:00:10.595 --> 02:00:11.855
That's kind of all I have to say

02:00:11.876 --> 02:00:12.115
about that.

02:00:14.382 --> 02:00:15.283
Yeah, I don't have anything to add.

02:00:15.944 --> 02:00:22.430
Those summed it up pretty well, I think.

02:00:22.490 --> 02:00:23.692
I don't know if we have any more

02:00:24.032 --> 02:00:27.775
questions this week.

02:00:27.796 --> 02:00:34.061
Last call for questions, folks.

02:00:34.082 --> 02:00:34.563
I like this...

02:00:36.823 --> 02:00:38.824
this thread on the forum that I just

02:00:38.885 --> 02:00:41.587
saw for your consideration privacy not

02:00:41.606 --> 02:00:43.287
from the big short I like the big

02:00:43.307 --> 02:00:45.029
short just as a movie a lot I

02:00:45.069 --> 02:00:46.890
think it's a really good movie but I

02:00:46.930 --> 02:00:49.231
thought that was very funny as well how

02:00:49.252 --> 02:00:51.753
Ben record is like super privacy obsessed

02:00:51.793 --> 02:00:54.235
he won't answer phone calls he has like

02:00:54.256 --> 02:00:55.676
a million phones and he's worried about

02:00:55.697 --> 02:01:00.180
the NSA logging all of them they just

02:01:00.220 --> 02:01:01.360
sent a picture that I just thought it

02:01:01.381 --> 02:01:02.521
was funny

02:01:05.411 --> 02:01:07.712
I did not see that movie at all.

02:01:07.891 --> 02:01:08.752
Oh, you're missing out.

02:01:08.851 --> 02:01:12.113
That is a really good movie.

02:01:12.132 --> 02:01:12.672
I don't know.

02:01:12.972 --> 02:01:13.412
Oh, no, no, no.

02:01:13.453 --> 02:01:14.373
I'm thinking of Dumb Money.

02:01:15.333 --> 02:01:18.234
Oh, that movie was... I mean,

02:01:18.255 --> 02:01:18.835
that was awesome.

02:01:19.034 --> 02:01:20.895
That movie was just okay.

02:01:20.956 --> 02:01:22.095
I haven't seen the big short either,

02:01:22.195 --> 02:01:24.077
but I just remember seeing the previews

02:01:24.096 --> 02:01:24.896
for it, and I'm like, yep,

02:01:24.957 --> 02:01:26.077
this looks like one I can miss.

02:01:26.216 --> 02:01:29.137
I have a very limited amount of free

02:01:29.177 --> 02:01:29.457
time,

02:01:29.518 --> 02:01:31.479
and I try to dedicate my stupid movies

02:01:31.498 --> 02:01:32.359
to sci-fi, so...

02:01:32.860 --> 02:01:34.181
Dumb money you could probably miss.

02:01:34.202 --> 02:01:36.384
I mean, that was all GameStop stuff,

02:01:36.503 --> 02:01:37.725
but yeah.

02:01:37.744 --> 02:01:38.765
The big short was a good one.

02:01:38.966 --> 02:01:40.847
And like, yeah, in that scene,

02:01:40.887 --> 02:01:42.029
he was like,

02:01:42.109 --> 02:01:43.109
somebody had to call him and he was

02:01:43.130 --> 02:01:43.430
just like,

02:01:43.449 --> 02:01:44.551
you're not supposed to use this number.

02:01:44.570 --> 02:01:46.832
And he hung up right away.

02:01:46.853 --> 02:01:47.554
They were saying like,

02:01:47.573 --> 02:01:48.755
you should do that to all your family

02:01:48.774 --> 02:01:50.636
members who try to message you on like

02:01:51.556 --> 02:01:52.597
WhatsApp or something.

02:01:53.078 --> 02:01:53.399
Just say,

02:01:53.538 --> 02:01:54.659
you're not supposed to use this app.

02:01:55.509 --> 02:01:56.891
That's that's honestly one of the reasons

02:01:56.952 --> 02:01:57.313
I got it.

02:01:58.033 --> 02:01:58.956
That's one of the reasons I got my

02:01:58.975 --> 02:02:00.538
stepdad on signal because I have a my

02:02:00.599 --> 02:02:02.923
pseudo number specifically dedicated for

02:02:02.963 --> 02:02:05.789
signal and he would constantly

02:02:07.251 --> 02:02:08.292
He actually had two different numbers

02:02:08.311 --> 02:02:10.134
because I had one for signal and then

02:02:10.173 --> 02:02:12.716
I had a separate one for like friends

02:02:12.756 --> 02:02:13.997
and family that don't use signal for

02:02:14.018 --> 02:02:14.519
whatever reason.

02:02:15.199 --> 02:02:17.162
And when when my mom passed away,

02:02:17.202 --> 02:02:20.125
he basically took over her phone for like

02:02:20.225 --> 02:02:20.645
reasons.

02:02:20.885 --> 02:02:22.367
And basically his phone broke.

02:02:22.567 --> 02:02:23.228
Long story short.

02:02:23.847 --> 02:02:25.850
And so he started using my mom's phone.

02:02:26.331 --> 02:02:28.112
but he didn't know how to use signal.

02:02:28.432 --> 02:02:29.934
And so he would like call me on

02:02:29.993 --> 02:02:30.873
both of those numbers.

02:02:31.454 --> 02:02:32.614
And so among many reasons,

02:02:32.635 --> 02:02:34.256
that's one smaller reason I got him on

02:02:34.317 --> 02:02:35.858
signal is because I got tired of getting

02:02:35.938 --> 02:02:37.939
his phone call from like two different

02:02:37.998 --> 02:02:39.439
number or like, you know,

02:02:39.479 --> 02:02:40.900
he would call me on like either number

02:02:40.961 --> 02:02:41.742
and it's just like, Oh my God,

02:02:41.761 --> 02:02:42.402
just here,

02:02:42.481 --> 02:02:43.922
you signal everybody's on signal,

02:02:43.983 --> 02:02:44.923
do everything on sick,

02:02:44.944 --> 02:02:48.246
which has worked out great now.

02:02:48.346 --> 02:02:48.686
So now,

02:02:48.787 --> 02:02:50.347
now he's in the family group chat with

02:02:50.368 --> 02:02:51.908
the rest of us and you know,

02:02:51.948 --> 02:02:53.369
it's a lot of fun, but yeah,

02:02:53.670 --> 02:02:54.831
it was.

02:02:54.911 --> 02:02:55.051
Yeah.

02:02:58.514 --> 02:02:59.614
Without any more questions,

02:02:59.654 --> 02:03:03.279
we can probably wrap things up,

02:03:04.119 --> 02:03:04.739
I would say.

02:03:04.779 --> 02:03:05.640
I think so.

02:03:05.761 --> 02:03:06.041
Yeah.

02:03:06.641 --> 02:03:07.962
It's been a good week.

02:03:08.524 --> 02:03:09.444
Do you want to take the outro,

02:03:09.484 --> 02:03:11.345
or should I?

02:03:11.907 --> 02:03:12.527
Up to you.

02:03:13.547 --> 02:03:14.029
I'll take it.

02:03:14.529 --> 02:03:15.590
You did the intro, so...

02:03:16.538 --> 02:03:18.060
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02:03:18.100 --> 02:03:19.621
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