The Modern Hotelier #56: Enhancing Experiences Through Thoughtful Design | with Virginia Toledo
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Virginia Toledo [00:00:00]:

As you continue to level up with your portfolio, the design has to reflect that because the consumer is so much smarter than they were years ago, and their expectations now are much higher. And if you don't keep up with it, your bookings will reflect than that.

David Millili [00:00:18]:

Welcome to the 2nd season of The Modern Hotelier, the fastest growing hospitality podcast. Cast. Both hosts were named top 100 most powerful people in hospitality and voted 4th most popular podcast by the International Hospitality Each episode, we'll get to know an industry expert, and we'll discuss the latest trends in hospitality to help you, The Modern Hotelier. Welcome to the Modern Hotelier. I'm your host, David Maluele.

Steve Carran [00:00:43]:

I'm your cohost, Steve Carent.

Jon Bumhoffer [00:00:45]:

And I'm the producer, John Boomhofer.

Sponsors [00:00:47]:

Today's episode is sponsored by Toledo Geller. Discover the epitome of exceptional design with Toledo Geller, an award winning interior design build firm dedicated to crafting turnkey custom spaces. For the past 2 decades, Toledo Geller's creativity and attention to detail has earned them recognition in the design industry, cementing their Position as masters of versatile design. Their approach begins with an intimate exploration of your aspirations, ensuring a deep understanding of your wishes and concerns. But what sets Toledo Geller apart is their mastery of both design and construction. From the blueprint stage to completion, Toledo Geller provides Comprehensive project management and development oversight. Experience the flexibility that comes with this boutique firm's nimble approach That allows them to adapt swiftly to changing project requirements and timeline. Enjoy personalized attention throughout your journey With a dedicated point of contact overseeing your project from start to finish.

Sponsors [00:01:45]:

Whether you're dreaming of a luxury living space or redefining the brand, Toledo Geller ensures a transformative journey that exceeds expectations. Toledo Geller has a special offer for the Modern Hotelier listeners, A chance to win a free design consultation. To enter, head to the modern hotelier.com/ offers. Click on Toledo Geller offer. Fill out the form and let them know the Modern Hotelier sent you.

David Millili [00:02:08]:

Steve, who do we have on the program today?

Steve Carran [00:02:11]:

Yeah, David. Today, we have on Virginia Toledo, Creative director and founder of Toledo Geller. Toledo Geller was founded over a decade ago, and they have been declared House Beautiful's next wave And I've been finalists in innovation in interior design, ones to watch, and rising stars by industry magazines and associations. Welcome to the show, Virginia.

Virginia Toledo [00:02:35]:

Thanks for having me, guys. I'm happy to be here.

David Millili [00:02:38]:

Happy to have you, Virginia. So we're gonna go through Three sections. We're gonna get to know you a little bit better, talk about your career, and then get into industry topics. Sound good?

Virginia Toledo [00:02:47]:

Let's do it.

David Millili [00:02:48]:

Alright. So what was the worst job that you ever had?

Virginia Toledo [00:02:52]:

Oh, god. I'm throwing my my parents under the bus, but it was working for my father as, Probably at an age that was too young to be working, they had a little, like, side hustle when I was growing up. And if anyone knows the eighties, there were these weird moneypens. Long story. But anyway, we used to make moneypens out of our yard, a shed in our yard, and it was the worst job ever.

David Millili [00:03:16]:

Are you a morning or a night person?

Virginia Toledo [00:03:18]:

Definitely morning.

David Millili [00:03:20]:

Alright. So You have to delete all the apps on your phone except for 3. What 3 apps are you keeping on your phone?

Virginia Toledo [00:03:27]:

That would be Pinterest, for sure for all types of inspiration. Zillow or Trulia, totally obsessed with real estate, and than Facebook, but for the marketplace part of it because that is like my retail therapy.

David Millili [00:03:42]:

Alright. What emoji do you use the most?

Virginia Toledo [00:03:44]:

Probably the thumbs up, always delegating something and making sure that something's okay and handled, so thumbs ups all day.

David Millili [00:03:52]:

What's your favorite Vacation spot. If you had 1 place you could go on vacation, where would you go?

Virginia Toledo [00:03:57]:

That's hard. I'd love to travel, but I would say Tulum left a really indelible mark for me. Yeah.

David Millili [00:04:05]:

So you have your own talk show. Who's the 1st guest that you have on? They can be living or deceased. Who's your 1st guest?

Virginia Toledo [00:04:13]:

Rita Moreno. She I've I I would pay big money to meet that woman.

David Millili [00:04:18]:

This is the last one. So if you had a time machine, You go into the future or go into the past, which way are you going and which year are you going to?

Virginia Toledo [00:04:30]:

Gosh. I know it it should be to the future. Right? We should always be looking toward the future. But I have an obsession with the 19 twenties, like Gatsby speed era. Everything is so opulent. Like, I wanna be a rich person during that time.

David Millili [00:04:43]:

Right.

Virginia Toledo [00:04:45]:

Let's just be clear of the person I want to be. I just want you to have beautiful gown on and, you know, just everything gilded. Yeah. I would go there. Alright.

Steve Carran [00:04:54]:

Cool. I love that. That was great. So now we're gonna move into the show where we learn a little bit more about you, what makes you tick, those types of things. So You grew up in Brooklyn. Right?

Virginia Toledo [00:05:05]:

I did. I'm a Brooklyn girl.

Steve Carran [00:05:07]:

Awesome. So how did that shape who you are today?

Virginia Toledo [00:05:10]:

Oh my gosh. And in all ways, I would say. So growing up in Brooklyn in the eighties is very different than, growing up in Brooklyn today, the gentrified, you know, really cool cafes on every corner kind of thing. So what I would say is that, You know, growing up in an area that was, very sort of a depressed neighborhood, you know, after redlining and all that kind of Stuff that happened, before I was born, and so I looked through those results, totally inspired me to get into this industry of design, renovation, architecture. You know? I I feel really blessed that ever since I was a little kid walking through the neighborhood, when I would see abandoned buildings, I wouldn't see, like, a problem. I wouldn't see, you know, that's so sad. Literally, I would start renovating it in my mind. Maybe too much because when my parents would get me upset, I had, like, plans of, well, I could just move into that Abandoned I this is no joke.

Virginia Toledo [00:06:09]:

I had I don't you know, I just thought I could do it and I could fix it up And I I'd live there, you know. That's where I'd run away too, you know, that whole era when, you know, you thought you could run away and live on your own at, like, 10. And so that totally informed my my passion for it. And then, also, for sure, my father was a general contractor, So that certainly helped, and he worked in our neighborhood. You know? At that point, it was all word-of-mouth. There was no website. So he was always, renovating these Turn of the century, row houses and brownstones, and that was so fascinating to me and certainly influenced, you know, or cemented, I should say, what I wanted to do. So, Yeah.

Virginia Toledo [00:06:49]:

Fortunately, I was one of those people that ever since I was a kid, I knew what I wanted to do, and it was a really linear path for me.

David Millili [00:06:55]:

And so you graduated from New York Institute of Technology Interior design. You kinda just touched on it, but was there outside of the, you know, just your your father and the abandoned houses, was there a moment That you kinda kinda remember when you knew that interior design was what you wanted to do for a living rather than just being a kid and thinking it would be cool to get out of the house if you had to.

Virginia Toledo [00:07:17]:

That's a great question. I think that, you know, during my time at university, I think that it was a very challenging program and seeing that, you know, from our freshman year, we started, you know, with a certain class size. And by our 2nd year, we were down to half. And by the end of the program, we were down to, like, a quarter. You know, most people felt like, this is just isn't for me. Yeah. This is really hard. And while it was really hard, I loved doing it, and I never felt as a student that missing out on a party or whatever I was missing out on because I needed to get a project done was something that I was upset about.

Virginia Toledo [00:07:55]:

It really felt like something I enjoyed doing. It was super challenging, but I was also allowed to be super creative and, you know, I loved going into studio. In fact, I just met up with 1 of my old professors last night from, like, 20 years ago, we've stayed you stayed in contact all these years and anyhoo, you know, going, you know, to what what we would call a crit a critique of your you know, where you are in your project, and you thinking like, yeah. This is totally awesome. I did a great job, and then then they push you even further creative you know, creatively Certainly, was something that made me feel like, gosh, it doesn't feel like work. And if I could do this and get paid for it, That would be fantastic. Because up until that point, I wasn't raised to think that a creative field was something that you could really pursue and be profitable at for sure. You know, you you had to be something that was stable like, you know, a teacher or a doctor, you know, something that someone will always need, not a what we could deem as the luxury service.

Steve Carran [00:08:58]:

That's awesome. And you mentioned this with one of the apps that you'd like to keep, Facebook Marketplace. You're a big fan of thrifting. Right?

Virginia Toledo [00:09:06]:

And what You did your research, Steve. I love it.

Steve Carran [00:09:10]:

I also heard that you say thrifting is your therapy. So I got to ask, what's your favorite find while thrifting?

Virginia Toledo [00:09:19]:

Oh, my gosh. So I typically look for furniture that I can reupholster, refinish, give a new life. It makes me really sad to see the quality of furniture that gets put out in the industry these days. You know, it's it's a very, like, almost like fast fashion where, you know, if you buy a $5 shirt and you're like,

Steve Carran [00:09:36]:

oh, well, she wants it.

Virginia Toledo [00:09:36]:

I'll throw it away. Who cares? You know, that has been the approach with furnishings for a long time, and it's to me, it makes zero sense when I could actually go to a thrift store or consignment shop and buy a sofa that was really well made for $100 and reupholster it for a few more $100 and get something that's super solid that I, you know, wanna heap forever as opposed to buying something that is gonna continue to fill the landfill. So it is a 100% my retail therapy. My husband is probably really blessed from that perspective. I'm like, I don't need the Louis Vuitton or anything like that. Just drop me over the consignment shop. Out. It it it's almost like a thrill when I leave with, you know, a lot of things for, like, $100.

Virginia Toledo [00:10:20]:

I feel it feels like a little, like, naughty. Like, how did I get away with this? It's A little weird, but

Steve Carran [00:10:26]:

So what's your favorite thing you've ever found?

Virginia Toledo [00:10:29]:

Gosh. I have literally almost furnished my last house almost completely with these sort of finds. So there there are many. But I have to say it was probably this really cute sofa. At the time, it was on Facebook Marketplace in my town, and they said if you pick it up today, it's free, so even better. And then I had it reupholstered in a yellow velvet, that just feels like super decadent and, you know, it's like one of those things that It's a showstopper. Unfortunately, now one of my dogs thinks it's his sofa. So but I can't argue with him.

Steve Carran [00:11:09]:

I did see that couch in one of the pictures, and it is incredible. So it it it's awesome. It is awesome.

Virginia Toledo [00:11:15]:

Free. I mean, so, yeah, originally, it was free, and I just had to recover it. The innards We're in perfect condition.

Steve Carran [00:11:21]:

That is awesome. That is awesome. So now we're gonna go to more the career part of how you got to where you are. And, you know, like you said, you used to work along your father, who is a general contractor at construction sites. Then after college, you know, you just jumped into project design at renovated home. It seems like this has just been what you've meant to do your whole life. How did what you learned with your father and what you learned at kind of that first role out of college, how did those Two things really kind of help you where you are today.

Virginia Toledo [00:11:56]:

Well, my father taught me, for sure, work ethic. He wasn't that sort of general contractor. I'm not saying this because he's my dad, but he probably got to the job site too early, you know, where his clients were like, dude, I'm still having my coffee. And he's like, well, work's gotta get done. You know? He showed up every day and worked his tail off. And if someone wasn't happy with something, he was gonna get it right. So from that perspective, I still operate from that position. Even though I own the company, oftentimes, I'm the one opening the office and closing the office.

Virginia Toledo [00:12:29]:

Right? Like, I wanna make sure everything is buttoned up. I know we live in this hybrid work remote world work remotely sort of world, but but I think it's really important for my team to see me there hustling with them as opposed to just being this, you know, I don't know, figurehead of sorts. And then working at the renovated home exposed me to, gosh, a world that honestly I didn't even know existed. By that, I mean, I was a born and raised New Yorker and thought I knew the city, but I knew it from a different perspective than that sort of, like, 1% population that the renovated homes clientele really consisted of. So here I am, someone who thought I knew, you know, New York inside and out, and now I'm working on, you know, penthouses and piet a terres on 5th Avenue and Madison Avenue, you know, for many, many 1,000,000 of dollars. I'm like, I thought this was just in the movies. Like, this is for real? Oh my goodness. People live like this and this is not just their only place.

Virginia Toledo [00:13:31]:

They have many places. You know, it it just wasn't I I had no idea. So I feel like I I was like bamboozled, you know, because I I knew the city. So that, you know, marrying my work ethic within this clientele That was very demanding. You know, these are people that expect a high level of service, a high level of, construction design, etcetera, and are used to getting what they want. You know? It's a serve even though we feel, you know, we're creatives and we're artists, to really we're we're service providers at the end of the day. And so being able to understand that, you know, you have to service these people because as they can sort of like end your career if they want to while also staying creative and and and keeping those juices flowing. So it's, you know, the business and the creative, and I think any, You know, architect, designer will attest to the same regardless of your clientele.

Virginia Toledo [00:14:24]:

But when you're working with people who have really deep pockets, it just, for some reason, just ups the ante.

Steve Carran [00:14:31]:

Mhmm. So instead of being rich in the twenties, you get to work for the rich.

Virginia Toledo [00:14:34]:

That's right. Uh-huh. Yeah. That's those are the cards I got. That's fine. It's fine.

David Millili [00:14:41]:

Alright. So you started your own company, Toledo Geller, in 2006, Leaving the renovated home, when did you know that you wanted to do that? And was there just a a point or was it was it a long process, or was it just one day where you're like, nope. I'm I'm gonna do it myself now.

Virginia Toledo [00:14:57]:

Yeah. So while I was at the renovated home, a large part of my job description, and it evolved while I was there, but it evolved into something where I was primarily project managing. So What I was doing was managing, you know, the team on technical drawings, making sure all of our construction documents were in order, managing our crew of contractors on various guys making project site visits, client management, etcetera. And so I was really missing the creative part of the industry and what drove a big part of why I wanted to be a part of this. And so and if there was any even rubbing a little out of salt in the wound, a lot of our clients came to us at the time with their interior designer. So now I was also sort of like taking orders and creative direction from another designer. I'm like, this just doesn't feel right. And I think I got to the point at about 5 years where Having worked so closely with the owner of the company, we're a very small operation.

Virginia Toledo [00:16:01]:

I did a lot of work, but, you know, it was like small but mighty. I got to see the finances of how a business like this works and how you can be profitable and what your margins should be. I mean, it was, you know, a remarkable experience, from that standpoint. And so it gave me enough courage to figure out that I could I could likely do this by myself. But, also, I think being young and naive helps. You know, this was 17 years ago. I didn't have a family. I know a lot of your guests say things like that where, you know, there's points in your your life where you can be more of a risk taker.

Virginia Toledo [00:16:40]:

And so that was that was my time, and and I took a leap of faith. And it was a good time in 06. It was I used to call it the gilded age, right, of the 2000, and money was flowing. So it was a great time to, you know, hang your own shingle, but then 2 years later, that Totally collapsed. So, you know what? That that work ethic that I referenced earlier Certainly, you know, kicked into high gear, and I had to figure out how to keep this company going. At that point in time, I had already taken on a business partner because I did get so busy in 06. And kind of fun fact, this is kind of funny, that you know how I love thrifting and I'm always on Facebook Marketplace and Craigslist and Ebay. I found my my business partner on Craigslist.

Virginia Toledo [00:17:26]:

Like, this is a true story. You know, this is when Craigslist was still, you know, safe ish. And so I had put out an ad that I needed someone to help me at the firm, and she was one of the people who replied and came in for an interview. And long story short, hired her, and eventually we became business partners. But people cannot believe that, you know, we're close in age, so people assume we worked together, we studied together. And, no, this was a Craigslist match that has lasted 17 years. So, you know, For tech guys, I think, you know, like that. There you go.

Steve Carran [00:18:00]:

Did you have any applicants where you are, like, nope?

Virginia Toledo [00:18:03]:

Oh, for sure. For Sure. There I mean, there weren't many good ones that came through. It was her and another woman they really came down to. And then I had them do, like, a little face off, like a a test kind of project and judged the results from I made my decision.

David Millili [00:18:20]:

I love that. That's awesome. Yeah. It is funny because I I worked in New York for for 20 plus years, and all our office furniture from when I had my startups were was from Craigslist, people Who are getting rid of their IKEA furniture or whatever it was. Oh, yeah.

Virginia Toledo [00:18:35]:

And I mean, there's especially, that that's another, you know, tidbit for people who are listening. Depending on the market you're searching within, I mean, there's some really good markets. So you have people in Manhattan that are getting rid of amazing things, I mean, marble, building material that are left, you know, over from project sites that are really valuable, but they're sitting at the bottom of a building and the superintendent is like, I need these things out of here.

David Millili [00:19:01]:

So take us through well, I I I know you're not gonna say there's any normal days, but take us through a a day In in your life with your own company and how that operates.

Virginia Toledo [00:19:11]:

Yeah. I'd love to. So I think everyone at the company will attest to the fact that there are never to alike days at our firm. We have, you know, a few different projects going on. I just if you we usually have about 15 to 20 projects going on at any given time at various stages. Right? So, you know, we're we are a team of 7 at this point. We've expanded. We've, you know, shrunk depending on what's, you know, happening, but a typical day is, you know, Everyone is usually starting somewhere in disparate places.

Virginia Toledo [00:19:40]:

You have some people at the office, some people on project sites, and that sort of thing. We have at least 1 or 2 presentations per week, for clients, you know, going over materials, drawings, that kind of thing. We try to do a lot in house, meaning at our office, you know, from a standpoint of the ball is in our court and there's something to be said about coming to an establishment where you feel like, Oh, this is why I'm I'm paying a certain fee. You know, this they're running a well oiled machine here, and I see what I'm getting. And so, you know, there's collaborative time, at the office at any given point in the day. So a lot of times, we have our team huddles where we try to ideate together. There's weekly team meetings to go over where everyone is on their projects, what are, you know, things that are on fire. We are really, schedule oriented, and so I pride myself on that because oftentimes, we hear from clients who have had previous experience primarily within the residential space that it always feels like a runaway train, and it's like from a budget perspective, a timeline perspective, and the job doesn't get done.

Virginia Toledo [00:20:43]:

And as a small business owner for me, the way I see it is if a job doesn't get done, then my Business leads die with that with that client. I need to finish so successfully that they shout our business name from the mountain top. You know? Whenever their friends or family ask a recommendation or when someone comes to visit, they're like, who did this? That's, you know, our lifeline. So it's really important for us to understand budget very, very much from the beginning. A lot of people don't like to share that number, but I like to tell clients, would you go out with a realtor and not give them your budget for a house. Right? You wouldn't waste your time that way. You can't you're not gonna get a mortgage for a house you can't afford, etcetera. So why would you sort of play coy with your architect or your designer in how much you are comfortable you're marking for this project so that I can march towards that and we can get this done? And, you know, finally, it's it's a lot of management on the construction, and so we are on the phone with our contractors all the time making sure that They are being proactive, I like to say, in their scheduling because a lot of times you'll just hear them say, yeah, it's good.

Virginia Toledo [00:21:49]:

Maybe 2 weeks. I'm like, oh, we can get it done in 2 weeks if we if we plug all the right people into this calendar. You know? So I I like to say, If you know your kitchen cabinets are being installed in 2 weeks, well, then have that template for your stone lined up 2 weeks plus one day. Right? So instead of the day it's installed, calling the stone fabricator and they're like, oh, our next appointment is 2 weeks from now, and now we just lost 2 weeks. So it's it's simple, but we have found over the years that we need to be that involved in the project and overseeing that those schedules and appointments are being made, and oftentimes, we're just doing it for them because it's important to me for the top to get done in a timely manner. I need to get paid and move on and go to my next project. So

Steve Carran [00:22:39]:

Exactly. Exactly. Is there a specific niche that you work in?

Virginia Toledo [00:22:43]:

Yeah. So today, our niche is working for families of high net worth individuals of primarily, you know, A lot of times, both individuals work. They're executives. They're just too busy to do this on their own. They know how they want their lives to be within their homes, but they have no time to dedicate it, to dedicate to that. So that's where we, I think, are most successful is working for that demographic that understand the value we bring to the table from a design perspective, but also from a construction management. So oftentimes, we get hired for 2nd homes, because people know that we can handle it even if they can't oversee the project. You know, whether we're flying there on a, you know, biweekly basis, traveling, driving there on a biweekly basis just to make sure that those milestones are met.

Virginia Toledo [00:23:31]:

FaceTime and, you know, Zoom obviously have been transformative in managing projects from afar, but, yeah, that's where we succeed. We don't do well with the people, you know, be fully transparent, the people who want to control a lot of the process. It doesn't doesn't work. It's almost like too many cooks in the kitchen for us at that point. We're super collaborative, but they have to understand where the Jurisdictions lie so that we can get the job done efficiently.

Steve Carran [00:23:58]:

Are there any upcoming niches that you're looking to focus on in

Virginia Toledo [00:24:02]:

Yes. For sure. And so part of why, I or part of how I met you all was the fact that in 2023, we made a really strong effort to jump with both feet into the hospitality design sector. And so to backtrack, when I was an undergrad, I thought that that's the, path my career would take. I was solely focused on hospitality design. In fact, my thesis was a boutique hotel in, Brooklyn. And at that time, there were 0 boutique hotels in Brooklyn. So I missed that train.

Virginia Toledo [00:24:42]:

There was just the Marriott at that point, and I, you know, had this, like, you know, grand idea. But I was a kid, and so I actually Had a stint at a hospitality design firm soon after I graduated before transitioning into the renovated home, but, unfortunately, that was a time where it was very soon after 911 and that sector sort of you know, it was at almost like a standstill. People just didn't know what to do. Do we travel? You know, we were sort of mourning as a as a country. But what I found was that the residential division was still hot, and I had student loans to pay. So I went there. But now after 17 years of owning Toledo Geller and we've built something that's really strong and, reputable, It's time for us to turn our attention to what was my first love. And so we've made so many great connections, and right now, what we're working on is a motel revitalization by the Jersey Shore reimagining a a sort of a staple in in the area, and we are giving it a whole new actually a character.

Virginia Toledo [00:25:49]:

We're almost assigning a character to this space and we're having a lot of fun with the research in terms of understanding who the client is, where there are opportunities for this motel to monetize. I I think we've identified many places where they could be making a bit more money, but also how they can cater to their guests a little bit more. And so I think for us, The focus has been motel revitalization because I have a passion for providing, I think, more so traveling families, the ability to stay in accommodations that feel thoughtful at a fair price point. And I think that's certainly lacking if, you know, we look at the motel landscape today and they're they're ripe for renovation. I mean, so many of them, in terms of when they were first developed to now, this is the the normal time to start reinventing and renovating, and I'd really just love to be a part of that revitalization.

Steve Carran [00:26:48]:

Awesome. That is great. So now we're gonna move to the part of the show where we get your industry thoughts Kind of in that hospitality space. So kind of a great segue here. You know, you're helping out with a hotel in New Jersey. If a hotel is looking, you know, to choose an interior designer, what Superior designer, what things should they be looking for?

Virginia Toledo [00:27:07]:

So I think, first and foremost, as designers, we have to be nimble and flexible. That is something that I think has been part of our success as a firm. We hear and I say that not just assuming. We've we've heard from clients saying, you know, they interviewed other firms, and they almost felt like they couldn't work with them. I think our clients need to be heard whether, You know? It's a residential client or an independent hotel owner who has strong ideas of who they're servicing and where they want their the brand they're developing to to end up. And so while we have our design ideas, we have to be flexible with what the client wants, time lines, and budget. So I think, you know, when you're interviewing someone. I think you can tell really early on if they operate that way or if it's, like, my way or the highway kind of thing because, You know, I'm not gonna lie.

Virginia Toledo [00:27:57]:

In this industry, there is a lot of ego, and that's not necessarily a bad thing. That's where some really strong designs come from because you have such, strong convictions as to what what or how you feel this should develop, but I think flexibility is key. In terms of size of a firm, I think that Maybe it's because I've always worked at boutique sized firms and never thought that's where I'd end up also, which is weird the way life is. Right? I always thought I'd be, like, one of the big powerhouse firms. I love that at a small design firm, everyone knows what's going on on all projects. It's it's right? It's like so cool and that If a client rings the office, even if that designer isn't, you know, on that design team for that project, oh, mister and missus so and so, whomever, you know, restaurant, I I I know what's I I I kinda know what's going on with your project. Give me a second. I can help out.

Virginia Toledo [00:28:49]:

And we are really all so collaborative in, you know, troubleshooting, ideating, and you get a lot, I think, more bang for your buck when hiring a smaller operation. There is a lot less bureaucracy in terms of paperwork and, you know, all of that. It's a lot more intimate. And so I think for smaller brands, especially smaller hotel brands, it feels like a more organic fit, perhaps, to work with another boutique. We we understand each other. Right? We we understand that entrepreneurial spirit because we've had to figure it out for ourselves. And so I love to be able to share that with other businesses that are trying to develop their brand, you know, with with sustainability and longevity.

Steve Carran [00:29:35]:

That's great. That's great. So from a design perspective, How are you able to enhance the guest experience and and make it memorable for guests?

Virginia Toledo [00:29:45]:

Gosh. So this is something we've been thinking about a lot as a team this year in in trying to really understand how we can transfer our skill set from residential design to hospitality design. And when we really start to dive deep and Figure out what do we do for for the bulk of our clients in the residential space that feels super curated and personal. It's that we do such a deep dive, in the design phase to understand everything that makes them tick, how their families work or how they operate as a couple. And in fact, we make each partner in the relationship fill out these these questionnaires. Usually, the males do it begrudgingly, but then they are really appreciative of it at the end because it it's down to everything. Like, what does your date look like? Do you get up and, you know, scroll online first? You know, do you have a cup of coffee? How do you how do you wind down at night? We wanna understand all of these things so that from the functional aspect, we check all of those boxes and it is precisely basically, your home is precisely done for you. Right? I wanna know where you kick your shoes off at the end of the day, you know, all of that.

Virginia Toledo [00:30:53]:

And so transferring those skills to the hospitality space, You know, I've thought of ways of, you know, for I I don't know, you know, I don't prove to be an expert at this at all. This is part of, you know, why we're having this conversation. But I think that there are opportunities for smaller brands or, you know, I don't think you can pull this off at a 500, you know, door sort of hotel. But on the motel side, I think there is opportunity to customize a a client's experience. I could think of you know, you guys talk about tech so much, which gets me really excited. And so much of what we do is via apps. You know, we've all stayed at hotels where at some point they're checking in on you, how is your stay, what have you. You know, I thought of digital photography, digital photo frames in a room perhaps that As a sort of a surprise, maybe it's the mom booking that vacation for her family and they're gonna, you know, stop at this roadside motel.

Virginia Toledo [00:31:45]:

And I can upload some photos of our pups, our kids, what have you. And when we go in, it's like, wait a minute. How do they know us here? You know, design is all about its sight, its scent, its touch. You know, are is there a way where at this establishment, we can ask you before your say, we have 3, let's say, hypothetically, 3¢ that we can offer you. Do you like floors? Do you like crisp? Do you like musk sort of masculine sense? Can we have that in the room for you? I know we've done this when we've done multifamily buildings where we have units a and units b. We did a project where all the kitchens were dark in, like, 25% of the apartments and they were bright and white cabinetry and 75%. Is there a way where we can choose even our bedsheet? You know? Do you like white sheets? Do you like dark gray sheets? We don't have to give them 10 options, but I think there's something really cool about When you get there, you're like, this was chosen for me. You know? Like, I chose that.

Virginia Toledo [00:32:42]:

They're gray because I asked for that. And those are it They may seem silly and and trivial, but those are the things that make you feel like you're getting a really personalized experience and you can't get that from of really big brand. They just can't operate that, I should say, granularly, I guess. But I think that the independent space has a Big opportunity to provide personalized experiences.

David Millili [00:33:07]:

That's great. And so as far as trends, one of the trends I've seen a lot Over the last 10 years is, you know, a lot of independent hotels trying to create this common space or the where the lobby's more where you can come and work and things of that nature. Are there other industries that you and your team are pulling from to get inspiration for hospitality? Is there any other sectors that you look at to say, wow, we could take this and incorporate it in the hospitality.

Virginia Toledo [00:33:33]:

Yeah. I think that the food and beverage for sure, I think, you know, The communal dining has become really popular. We did a project at a bed and breakfast that used to have a a dining space where people were sort of Everyone sat alone or you just it was a grab and go. And once we put in a communal dining table, it transformed the way People experience that space. All of a sudden, the person who was traveling alone didn't feel quite alone. It offers an opportunity to communicate, connect, all of that. I love hearing stories about when people make new friends when they traveled. I think that's so wild.

Virginia Toledo [00:34:11]:

Because as adults, it's sort of it's difficult to make friends. You know? And so when you can make friends during, you know, a time that you were experiencing, you know, something totally different, and you guys align on that and maybe travel together in the future. I think thinking about, you know, dining is a big heart of it because, you know, that old sort of adage breaking bread with someone, it it means something. You know? That's what hospitality is. I like to think of When I host people at our home, I'm gonna make sure that whether I cook the dinner or I brought it in, it's gonna be something that I know they're gonna enjoy. And so Dining and, you know, eating together is a big part of that. In terms of other industries, I think communal workspace. We even worked, our personal offices were We started at at WeWork at their 1st building, which was really cool and learned a lot from that experience and what that sharing of ideas because that's that I think was really what made them such a strong company.

Virginia Toledo [00:35:08]:

We met so many other start ups and small business owners there, and, You know, you could tell if someone was having a bad day because our walls were all glass and we had that time to connect like, hey, bud. I heard you on that On that phone call, you seem really upset. Come over here. Let's have a coffee together. So, you know, from the shared workspace and food and beverage, I think we can take a lot of those concepts and bring them into reality because you have the business traveler that that needs both of those services. And I think families traveling together would also benefit from that. Instead of feeling so isolated in their room. I think we need to get people out of their hotel rooms more than ever.

Virginia Toledo [00:35:44]:

As a Mom to a student athlete, we do a lot of travel for tournaments and things like that, and I really despise that downtime where we're just sitting in a hotel room, you know, at a place that's usually less than desirable because that's what's chosen for us. And, you know, I'm always looking for ways to to commune with people, you know. So I think there's there's a larger opportunity for those gathering spaces that you're referencing.

David Millili [00:36:10]:

That's great. And so, obviously, you know, the world's changed. There's a lot of different options now whether it be hotels, motels, B and B, Airbnb, short term rentals. What do you think as a designer, what do you think those who have the short term rental space, those owners, what should they be doing? Maybe 3 tips you could give them To really, you know, make that a much more enjoyable stay for that person who's staying in a short term rental.

Virginia Toledo [00:36:34]:

Right. I and and that is That fascinates me, that whole industry and where it is going, where it has come from, where it is going. There are so many conversations surrounding that. We've even had a lot of our residential clients now getting into that and their portfolio is growing and bringing us in to help them with that. So it is a very saturated market. I remember the days when you'd go book you didn't try to book a place and it was slim pickings, and now there are so many options. So How do you make your space stand out? One tip I would give people with short term rentals is have at least 1 room that feels really different. So for instance, if I could give an example, we just did a a house for a client where it's in a beach area.

Virginia Toledo [00:37:18]:

It's not beachfront, but in a beach area. And so, sure, you have your open airy beach vibe. We've all seen it. Great. Fantastic. But then there was 1 room that was North facing, it was kinda dark, it had no good views, and so we just leaned into that and made it a really dark and moody, like, library den kind of thing. That photographed so well and that's the room, ironically, that they get a lot of feedback from, Because when someone is traveling and they might just wanna get away from the rest of the family or whatever and want a little bit of a different experience, This room stood out in the photography in a sea of very bright, airy photographs, otherwise. So this felt really interesting.

Virginia Toledo [00:38:02]:

I think it's, you know, this should probably go without saying, but having your house stocked with the proper things. I think that's one of the biggest gripes you hear. And I know it's again, might sound super obvious, but I've even dealt with that where you're paying a certain amount per se because I loved the photos. And now some of my basic necessities aren't included in here, and I can't even cook a proper meal. So, you know, some of the obvious things have to be checked off and I think when we grow, I'm guilty of it in a, you know, different way of growing a business. Sometimes we forget those little details They were important and we we we fussed over at the beginning, and when we get bigger, we're like, oh, crap. I kinda forgot about that. So that's another.

Virginia Toledo [00:38:43]:

And 3rd, I think, you know, you have to keep up with with what people want. And by that, I mean, We also see photos of short term vacation rentals that just feel super outdated, and why would I wanna stay there? So you have to make the commitment to have a well designed space. And now, you know, the interior design market has people at various levels. You know, if if you're a little bit newer, your portfolio is smaller and you have to start with someone that's a little bit more green. Start there with a designer that's green and needs that, you know, needs some work in their portfolio. That's gonna that service that they're gonna give you in crafting a space that feels more thoughtful than you would have done on your own, It's gonna pay itself in spades. Like, just do it. And I think that as you continue to level up with your portfolio in how much you're asking for and the type the types of properties that you're purchasing.

Virginia Toledo [00:39:38]:

The design has to reflect that because the consumer is so much smarter than they were years ago, and their expectations now are much higher. And if you don't keep up with it, your bookings will reflect that. They have other options. So I think, you know, you have to fold design services into your marketing efforts and your your expenditures for the year and not think that it's something that, You know, it's a nice to have. It's it's really a must have, you know, at this point.

Steve Carran [00:40:08]:

Absolutely. And you kinda went into it already, But I'd love to you for you to elaborate a little bit more. What advice would you give to, you know, folks that are looking to get into interior designing as a profession?

Virginia Toledo [00:40:20]:

I think it's super important for you to get the proper education before getting into this industry. It probably isn't the popular opinion because you technically can become an interior designer without getting a degree. However, there is a lot of liability in what we do. You know, if we're specifying, you know, partitions and deciding where plumbing goes, etcetera, electrical plans that we work up, all of these things. If you don't know what you're doing, you could really get yourself into a legal mess. And so I think that social media, The HGTVs of the world have painted this picture that, just go for it and get into it and you can do it. And I'm not saying that you can't, but it's gonna be a lot harder of a road. So I am a big proponent for really understanding the foundational skills, the technical skills, software, AutoCAD, Revit, all these different things that we use in order to produce our construction documents, I think that's super important.

Virginia Toledo [00:41:22]:

And 2, Get experience working under someone else. You know, I I I love an entrepreneurial spirit. I get it. I am that person. But it's not for everybody. And I'm not trying to say that to be, you know, sort of downtrodden on it or whatnot, but I think that It is invaluable experience. Let them take the risk for a few years before before you do it and really get a sense of the ins and outs, the flow. You know, watch that owner in how they have to manage a team because that's a whole other thing.

Virginia Toledo [00:41:57]:

You know, once you become a business owner, you're no longer just a creative. We all know that. Right? But sometimes people Think, I like doing it, but once you own a business and that's what's putting food on your table, it's a whole different animal. You know, when you're paying health insurance and you're also the reason why other people can pay their mortgage or put food on the table, this is another game. So I would say for sure, you You know, cut your teeth, so to speak, at another firm and and also try different firms. Right? Because sometimes it might not be The sector that you wanna go into, you might think you like office design and commercial design and end up in, you know, hospitality restaurant design or residential. So get a feel for it and, you know, give yourself that space and time to do that before branching out on your own. I think schooling, and and that experience will will go far for you.

Steve Carran [00:42:48]:

Awesome. So John has been listening throughout this whole episode. So I'm gonna kick it over to John for the final question

Jon Bumhoffer [00:42:57]:

here. One thing you mentioned at the very beginning was the kind of Equivalent to fast fashion in design and furniture and stuff. And I've worked at hotels and in also a really nice Country Club, and it was very clear to me, like, the quality. You know, if something break in the hotel, we just like, is it worth it to fix it? No. We'd throw it out. And the Country Club is like, this stuff has been here forever. It feels like and it wears really nicely, and it feels great. What are some things to look for, like, when furnishing To make sure that the stuff you get last, the solid looks good over a long period of time, whether that's, like, the brands or materials or finding secondhand stuff and refurbishing, what are your thoughts there?

Virginia Toledo [00:43:37]:

I think that when you are looking at these pieces, if it let's say if it's a case good, a piece of millwork, what have you, you check out the sturdiness of of the frame. You wanna look for a solid wood as much as possible and, you know, not particle board and those sorts of things that turn to tend to warp and chip and what have you. Check out drawer boxes. So if it has drawers in it, open the drawers, see the construction of the drawers. Are they stabled together? Because if they are, don't buy it. Are they dovetailed? Fantastic. But those are the things that will become costly when you go to refurbish them and then might sort of negate the good price you got at the beginning. You also wanna look on wood pieces to see if especially the top surface, is it a veneer or is it solid wood? Because if it's a veneer and it has some damage, they not it might not be able to sand that down at that point.

Virginia Toledo [00:44:27]:

It might just be too thin, and now we need a whole new top on it. And then for upholstery, I would say, you know, check out the cushions, make sure that the innards are good because that's also when The, cost to reupholster it really gets pricey and, again, might negate the savings that you got at the beginning. So you wanna look for, springs inside the cushion. You can feel them if you test it out as opposed to just being foam, and the frame of the, of the furniture piece as well should feel solid. And so you'll know that just by sort of giving it a good shake if it feels sturdy. That would usually represent solid wood that was attached in a poor sound way as opposed to just being glued together. Usually, you want glue and nails. So, you know, those are a a few tips in knowing if you've gotten a good deal or not.

Virginia Toledo [00:45:19]:

But either way, I think it's always best to go this way as opposed to buying new and, you you know, things that are just gonna continue to pile up in the landfill.

David Millili [00:45:27]:

Well, thank you so much, Virginia. That does it for another episode of the Modern Hotels here. This is The point where we let you plug away, how can people get in touch with you, get in touch with your firm? So plug away.

Virginia Toledo [00:45:39]:

Absolutely. I welcome all inquiries. I I Love LinkedIn, and so I love networking with other, business owners. You can feel free to email me directly at virginiaat toledogeller.com, and you can find us on all social media platforms at Toledo Geller.

David Millili [00:45:56]:

That does it for another episode of the Modern Hotelier. It's That time of year, so happy holidays to everyone, and we look forward to seeing everyone soon. Thank you.

Virginia Toledo [00:46:03]:

Thank you for having me.

Sponsors [00:46:05]:

Today's episode is sponsored by Toledo Geller. Discover the epitome of exceptional design with Toledo Geller, an award winning interior design build firm dedicated to crafting turnkey custom spaces. For the past 2 decades, Toledo Geller's creativity and attention to detail has earned them recognition in the design industry, cementing their position as masters of Personal design. Their approach begins with an intimate exploration of your aspirations, ensuring a deep understanding of your wishes and concerns. But what sets Toledo Geller apart is their mastery of both design and construction. From the blueprint stage to completion, Toledo Geller provides Comprehensive project management and development oversight. Experience the flexibility that comes with this boutique firm's nimble approach That allows them to adapt swiftly to changing project requirements and timelines. Enjoy personalized attention throughout your journey With a dedicated point of contact overseeing your project from start to finish.

Sponsors [00:47:04]:

Whether you're dreaming of a luxury living space or redefining your brand, Toledo Geller ensures a transformative journey that exceeds expectations. Toledo Geller has a special offer for the Modern Hotelier listeners, A chance to win a free design consultation. To enter, head to the modern hotelier.com/ offers. Click on Toledo Geller offer. Fill out the form and let them know the Modern Hotelier sent

Steve Carran [00:47:26]:

you. You made it to the end of the Modern Hotelier. Thanks for listening. The Modern Hotelier is produced by Make More Media. Make sure to like and subscribe if you're watching on YouTube or follow wherever you get your podcasts. If you know of a guest or sponsor that would be a good fit, Feel free to email us at hello at the modern hotelier.com. Thanks, and have a great day.