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continuously shame somebody

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eventually they're going to become immune to shame

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which is actually

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a much worse problem than whatever it is

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that you think you're solving

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by shaming people

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so that's another observation that I think is true

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well I think I

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I'll just say that I think shame as a tool is horrible

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yeah shame is not a parenting tool

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that's probably

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a principle that is probably well established I agree

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it is probably well established I agree

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hello and welcome to raising men

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I'm Shawn Dawson and today

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we're tackling one of the hardest parts

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about raising boys in my opinion

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which is aggression when our sons

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they hit or they kick or scream

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at least my gut reaction is often fear

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I'm afraid about his future

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I I draw this line into the future that

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oh my gosh

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this is the way he's gonna be when he's an adult

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I feel I fear that I'm failing and

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and often I I react or my

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gut reaction is to react with harshness or shaming

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but our guest today Tasha Shore

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points out that aggression

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it's not a sign of a bad kid

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so to speak but a signal of a frightened one

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Tasha is the founder of Parenting Boys Peacefully

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and the out with aggression program

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and she's the author of listen

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5 Simple Tools

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to meet your Everyday Parenting challenges

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she's here to show us how we can cultivate peace

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in and out of the home with our sons

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Tasha

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thank you so much for joining us on raising

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thank you so much for inviting me on

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I'm excited for this conversation

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me too

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me too

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so you talk about something that I

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it just absolutely struck me when I encountered it

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and that is the bad guy myth

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and the way that I would describe that

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and please correct me if I'm wrong

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is that the I we

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it's this idea that we mislabel boys as troublemakers

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when actually they're just struggling

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they're trying to make it work

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and so for example

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data from the center for Social Justice

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shows that boys are twice as likely to get in trouble

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at school as girls

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and I think this is a symptom of that how much of that

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lost boy trajectory

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starts with misinterpreting their reactivity

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as a character flaw rather than an emotional signal

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I think a lot of it starts with that

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and I think you touched on something which is equally

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important which is the fear that we feel as a result

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because our fear is then driving our response

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so we're in a fear cycle they're scared and acting out

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and then we're scared and acting out

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and then we spiral down together

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and so in order to get us out of this um

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sort of world world pool

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somebody's got to change

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and if there's one thing we know

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is that we can't change anybody else

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so we gotta start with ourselves

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yeah and we're the ones with the

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the fully developed prefrontal cortex

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we're the ones who you know

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can control what we're doing

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and by the way

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we're the ones who are supposed to be training our sons

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to to be effective in the world right

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absolutely and

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and it's possible I think people feel like

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you know I've got so much baggage

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I'm I'm 30

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I'm 40 I'm 50

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I've I've

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you know my parents parented me in a certain way

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yeah I want to stop yelling

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I want to do things differently

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but I just can't and I

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I wanna say that you absolutely can it

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I see people change all the time

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but just before we got on this recording

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I was working with a couple

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uh from Ireland

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I have been working with this couple

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on and off for the last few years

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and she got on and told me like

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I just want to tell you like

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I scheduled this not because

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there's a crisis everything is going really

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really well but I just wanted to have you in my world

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and be able to bounce ideas

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and I asked how her husband was doing

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and she said one of the biggest things that's shifted

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in their family

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and that has helped to stop the aggression

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is that they used to have this cycle where

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and they also have three boys like I did or do

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and they're now men that's why I said did right and and

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and

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one of the boys would get aggressive about something

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or the two you know

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two of them would go at each other

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and dad would just get all fired up and get scared

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do that you know

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forward fear thinking that you were just talking about

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oh my God

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what is gonna happen they're gonna kill each other

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they're gonna hate each other

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blah blah

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blah and he would start yelling and and and

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and being harsh and shaming and all of those things

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and they would spiral

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and she said he doesn't lose it anymore

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and

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that has completely shifted the dynamics in the family

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what a powerful statement

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I mean

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just think about what that's like from his experience

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and I I

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I feel this because I was kind of that way early on

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I found that my son could push buttons in me

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that I didn't know I have

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ordinarily

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my whole life I've been this real level headed guy

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I don't I'm not quick to anger anything like that

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but then I found that my son could trigger rage in me

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in a way that no one has ever been able to do

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yeah surprise surprise yeah

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this is what our kids do to us yeah

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it it's

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it's it's absolutely amazing

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and um

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it was a real unlock for me

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when I finally realized that

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I was screaming at him to calm down

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I was like wait a minute

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that's insane like

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he's not gonna calm down because I'm screaming at him

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it's gonna it's only gonna make things worse

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and I realized we were in the toilet bowl

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absolutely and

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and the thing is we feel so badly when we do that

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we don't want to do that you didn't want to do that

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that's right it's just

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it's just the fallback when our toolboxes are empty

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when we're running on empty

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it's just what comes out automatically

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it's what was done to us it's what we see in the movies

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we we have to retrain our brains

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we have to retrain ourselves

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in order to respond differently

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and like you said earlier

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like one of the things that's really gonna help

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is to reframe aggression as not the sign of

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oh my God

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this kid is totally screwed up and he's a psychopath

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and he's a horrible person

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but this is some form of communication

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like he is struggling he is hurting inside

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he is likely scared his

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his his radar right

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his limbic system in his brain

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is sensing a lack of safety

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even if you don't see that

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and he's responding accordingly

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so if we can get curious there's lots that we can do

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yeah I

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I I love that term about getting curious or

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or reacting with compassion

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instead of as a way I have to tamp down this activity

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this this reactivity that he's having

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otherwise

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he's going to grow up into be a man and beat people up

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right right

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so what

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once we have that recognition

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and once we sort of

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have this intellectual understanding

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okay this is a fear response from him

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now what do we do

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well I think we always start with ourselves

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so I always when I'm working with a family

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that's struggling with aggression

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the first place we're gonna start well

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the first place we're gonna start is like safety

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but part of that is how we respond

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so I like to start off with parents and talk about

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how do we get you into good enough parenting shape

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notice not perfect parenting shape

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not I'm never gonna make a mistake

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not I'm never gonna wish I said

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or did something differently

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but good enough

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that's all all I gotta do is good enough

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yeah and so

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that could be different things for different people

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it might be getting uh

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support in in terms of like

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having the physical presence of another person

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it might be

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having somebody on the other end of a phone line

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in case you need to call them for support

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it it could look a lot of different ways

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it might be simply telling your partner

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or whoever is living with you in your house

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that you're gonna do some experiments um

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in terms of responding to aggression

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differently than you have in the past and

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and communicating with them what their role could be

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or what you want them or don't want them to do

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how they can be involved or how could they

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they can be helpful

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or maybe the helpful is that they just stay

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stay back and let you do this for a while

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and you assure them that you'll let them know

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if you need help but there's a piece about

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how do we get ourselves into good enough parenting

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shape and I just want to be clear

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like as we talk about the different aspects

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of dealing with aggression

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it's not linear right it's not like okay

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you're gonna do this

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and then you're gonna check that off

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I mean we're all working on ourselves

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for the rest of our lives yeah

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we're not gonna you know we're just

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we just want to be moving in the right direction

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so everything that we talk about is like

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it's it's a puzzle all the pieces fit together

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but I would start there

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and then we're gonna move into really strengthening

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our connection with our sweet boys

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because is the is the difference

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is the difference in

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is there a difference in the appropriate response

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when the aggression is two boys getting at it

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versus when it's a boy and a girl

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I think so I think for me

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I mean for okay

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it depends on the context and what's going on obviously

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I think for me the reason that I focus on boys is not

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it is not about sort of physiological differences

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it's more about how we

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as adults respond differently to a boy's behavior

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versus a girl's behavior and that

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I think if if we can't admit that

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I think we're lying to ourselves

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because teachers like you said right

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teachers respond differently

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administrators respond differently

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coaches respond differently

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um we respond differently

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there are studies that show that we respond differently

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to even a young baby boy's cry

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than we do to a baby girl's cry

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from a very early age in our child's life

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the world is treating them differently

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simply because they've been labeled a boy right

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that's a tremendous insight

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and it really affects it

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it I

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I I

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I once had my

277
00:10:25,816 --> 00:10:28,666
my boy got sent home from school a couple of weeks ago

278
00:10:28,816 --> 00:10:33,566
and it was because he got into a fight with a girl

279
00:10:33,566 --> 00:10:34,933
a friend of his that I mean

280
00:10:34,933 --> 00:10:37,416
they're great friends and they got in a fight

281
00:10:37,416 --> 00:10:39,300
and he ended up holding her physically

282
00:10:39,300 --> 00:10:40,400
up against a fence

283
00:10:41,016 --> 00:10:43,966
and I you know I

284
00:10:43,966 --> 00:10:45,416
got called into the principal's office

285
00:10:45,416 --> 00:10:46,500
he got called in in

286
00:10:46,500 --> 00:10:49,550
into the principal's office and it was this huge thing

287
00:10:50,050 --> 00:10:52,500
and yet if he had done that to a boy

288
00:10:52,500 --> 00:10:54,050
and he has done that to boys before

289
00:10:54,050 --> 00:10:55,633
and boys have done that to him

290
00:10:55,900 --> 00:10:58,166
it didn't turn into this enormous thing

291
00:10:58,166 --> 00:10:59,166
but because it was a girl

292
00:10:59,166 --> 00:11:00,500
it really did right

293
00:11:00,500 --> 00:11:02,500
well so can I say

294
00:11:02,500 --> 00:11:03,650
so that's what I meant by like

295
00:11:03,650 --> 00:11:05,216
I do think there's context

296
00:11:05,216 --> 00:11:06,166
and so I think we can if

297
00:11:06,166 --> 00:11:07,216
you know if we're honest

298
00:11:07,216 --> 00:11:08,816
we can understand that yeah

299
00:11:08,816 --> 00:11:09,700
because there's yeah

300
00:11:09,700 --> 00:11:12,533
I'm not saying it's in it's inappropriate necessarily

301
00:11:12,533 --> 00:11:14,650
but it's definitely different right

302
00:11:14,650 --> 00:11:16,650
so there's there's a power differential

303
00:11:16,650 --> 00:11:18,350
differential in in genders

304
00:11:18,450 --> 00:11:20,550
and so um

305
00:11:20,700 --> 00:11:24,450
I think we as adults and all of this and

306
00:11:24,450 --> 00:11:24,700
you know

307
00:11:24,700 --> 00:11:26,966
I don't want you to fill in this information publicly

308
00:11:26,966 --> 00:11:27,566
but you know

309
00:11:27,566 --> 00:11:28,850
depending on the age

310
00:11:28,850 --> 00:11:30,333
and the history of the relationship and

311
00:11:30,333 --> 00:11:31,016
and what not

312
00:11:31,016 --> 00:11:35,266
like it would make sense to respond in different ways

313
00:11:35,933 --> 00:11:39,233
um but I think there's always in the background

314
00:11:39,366 --> 00:11:43,450
this knowledge that we have to carry of

315
00:11:43,450 --> 00:11:48,616
of of men and boys using their power over girls

316
00:11:48,616 --> 00:11:50,700
so in this case

317
00:11:50,700 --> 00:11:52,333
there could have been something like that

318
00:11:52,333 --> 00:11:54,700
or there could not have been something like that

319
00:11:54,700 --> 00:11:56,650
and I think the default is like

320
00:11:56,650 --> 00:12:00,900
oh my God he's doing this to her right um

321
00:12:00,900 --> 00:12:01,616
and and

322
00:12:01,616 --> 00:12:04,016
and what I would say is that we need

323
00:12:04,016 --> 00:12:06,416
to put safety first okay

324
00:12:06,416 --> 00:12:08,966
for sure so we want to make sure everybody's safe

325
00:12:08,966 --> 00:12:11,100
but then the part that we lose it at

326
00:12:11,100 --> 00:12:12,700
and I think this is true of schools

327
00:12:12,700 --> 00:12:13,850
it's true of us as parents

328
00:12:13,850 --> 00:12:14,616
is that

329
00:12:14,616 --> 00:12:18,433
we don't take the time to mend the relationship

330
00:12:19,250 --> 00:12:21,050
right people will go to this place of oh

331
00:12:21,050 --> 00:12:21,966
but it's you know

332
00:12:21,966 --> 00:12:22,616
it's it's

333
00:12:22,616 --> 00:12:25,416
it's trauma inducing to you know

334
00:12:25,416 --> 00:12:28,100
retraumatizing for you know

335
00:12:28,100 --> 00:12:30,650
the the child who was pushed up against the fence

336
00:12:30,650 --> 00:12:33,016
for example to to relive it

337
00:12:33,016 --> 00:12:36,233
but that's how we build resilience

338
00:12:36,250 --> 00:12:39,566
is by expressing ourselves

339
00:12:39,566 --> 00:12:41,566
what did it feel like what

340
00:12:41,566 --> 00:12:42,133
you know what

341
00:12:42,133 --> 00:12:44,133
what happened what LED up to it

342
00:12:44,133 --> 00:12:45,250
what could we do differently

343
00:12:45,250 --> 00:12:47,633
what do we expect do we need an apology

344
00:12:47,650 --> 00:12:48,816
um you know

345
00:12:48,816 --> 00:12:51,000
what sort of mentoring does he need

346
00:12:51,566 --> 00:12:54,450
to be able to show up differently next time

347
00:12:54,450 --> 00:12:55,733
like otherwise

348
00:12:55,733 --> 00:13:00,733
we're just kind of writing him off as a bad kid

349
00:13:00,733 --> 00:13:04,200
and we're basically throwing her into sort of a victim

350
00:13:04,450 --> 00:13:05,566
bucket right

351
00:13:05,566 --> 00:13:08,416
and neither one of those things is helpful right

352
00:13:08,416 --> 00:13:11,333
it would be so amazing and revolutionary

353
00:13:11,333 --> 00:13:14,116
if we could help them repair

354
00:13:14,450 --> 00:13:15,166
and that doesn't mean that

355
00:13:15,166 --> 00:13:16,900
they're gonna be great friends forever and

356
00:13:16,900 --> 00:13:17,900
and sometimes

357
00:13:17,900 --> 00:13:20,133
there might be a rift that destroys a relationship

358
00:13:20,133 --> 00:13:22,900
that happens it happens in adult relationships as well

359
00:13:22,900 --> 00:13:24,166
sure but most often

360
00:13:24,166 --> 00:13:25,533
especially when kids are young

361
00:13:25,533 --> 00:13:27,833
if we take the time to help kids repair

362
00:13:28,050 --> 00:13:31,800
then they can go back to being friends yeah

363
00:13:32,133 --> 00:13:34,100
in this in this particular case

364
00:13:34,100 --> 00:13:34,900
um

365
00:13:35,500 --> 00:13:37,816
I ended up reaching out to the father of the girl who

366
00:13:37,816 --> 00:13:39,216
who is you know

367
00:13:39,216 --> 00:13:40,733
an acquaintance of mine you know

368
00:13:40,733 --> 00:13:41,416
our friends are our our

369
00:13:41,416 --> 00:13:43,300
our kids are friends and so he's

370
00:13:43,300 --> 00:13:44,016
we have we

371
00:13:44,016 --> 00:13:45,666
you know we have a texting relationship

372
00:13:45,866 --> 00:13:50,133
and asking him what her experience was and all of that

373
00:13:50,133 --> 00:13:53,550
and it and it turned out that she was

374
00:13:54,016 --> 00:13:57,166
she felt she was really really upset about the incident

375
00:13:57,166 --> 00:14:00,216
but not because she was held up against the fence

376
00:14:00,216 --> 00:14:02,400
but because my boy got in trouble

377
00:14:02,933 --> 00:14:04,600
and she felt like it was her

378
00:14:04,900 --> 00:14:07,016
fault that he got in trouble right

379
00:14:07,016 --> 00:14:08,650
I mean and those are the nuances

380
00:14:08,650 --> 00:14:09,333
and again

381
00:14:09,333 --> 00:14:12,050
that doesn't mean that what your boy did was okay

382
00:14:12,050 --> 00:14:13,766
nobody's saying that yeah

383
00:14:13,766 --> 00:14:17,366
but it's nuance there's more to it

384
00:14:17,366 --> 00:14:19,566
like what happens to that relationship

385
00:14:19,566 --> 00:14:20,816
what happens to her okay

386
00:14:20,816 --> 00:14:22,050
she feels in this case

387
00:14:22,050 --> 00:14:24,016
she says she she feels bad

388
00:14:24,016 --> 00:14:24,816
well that's

389
00:14:24,816 --> 00:14:28,000
that's not useful to their relationship either like

390
00:14:28,200 --> 00:14:30,100
like they could we

391
00:14:30,100 --> 00:14:32,700
we could facilitate a conversation about that

392
00:14:32,700 --> 00:14:34,333
or a repair around that as well

393
00:14:34,333 --> 00:14:35,900
so anyway yes

394
00:14:35,900 --> 00:14:37,766
everything is is quite nuanced

395
00:14:37,766 --> 00:14:38,450
but yeah it

396
00:14:38,450 --> 00:14:40,133
it's sure does play a role

397
00:14:40,133 --> 00:14:41,416
but if if two people

398
00:14:41,416 --> 00:14:44,216
if two kids are boy girl or boy boy yes

399
00:14:44,216 --> 00:14:46,000
there's some differences but ultimately

400
00:14:46,700 --> 00:14:48,250
first of all we gotta keep everybody safe

401
00:14:48,250 --> 00:14:51,533
and then can we please focus in on

402
00:14:51,533 --> 00:14:53,850
that relationship I always say to my kids

403
00:14:53,850 --> 00:14:57,916
relationship first relationships first yeah

404
00:14:58,016 --> 00:14:58,733
you know social

405
00:14:58,733 --> 00:14:59,900
emotional peace first

406
00:14:59,900 --> 00:15:02,166
everything else you can learn later and make up later

407
00:15:02,166 --> 00:15:05,233
but like we have to nurture relationships

408
00:15:06,050 --> 00:15:07,016
yeah we do

409
00:15:07,016 --> 00:15:08,216
that's a really fundamental thing

410
00:15:08,216 --> 00:15:09,516
isn't it we're herd animals

411
00:15:09,650 --> 00:15:11,850
and if you don't have a way of establishing

412
00:15:11,850 --> 00:15:13,133
and maintaining relationships

413
00:15:13,133 --> 00:15:14,916
with other humans

414
00:15:15,300 --> 00:15:16,933
you're broken in

415
00:15:16,933 --> 00:15:20,350
in a way that the culture is gonna push you to the edge

416
00:15:20,566 --> 00:15:22,300
right and real relationships are

417
00:15:22,300 --> 00:15:25,200
relationships where you can mess up yeah

418
00:15:25,400 --> 00:15:27,700
and then repair yeah

419
00:15:27,700 --> 00:15:31,066
and then grow from that and move forward

420
00:15:31,966 --> 00:15:33,616
yeah so the

421
00:15:33,616 --> 00:15:36,333
the bringing it back to the steps

422
00:15:36,333 --> 00:15:38,766
the first step is about healing yourself

423
00:15:38,766 --> 00:15:40,750
and by fixing yourself so to speak

424
00:15:40,900 --> 00:15:43,350
um what happens after that

425
00:15:44,133 --> 00:15:44,650
so then

426
00:15:44,650 --> 00:15:47,600
I have parents really focus in on

427
00:15:47,816 --> 00:15:50,600
reconnecting with their sweet boys so

428
00:15:50,700 --> 00:15:53,033
you know some parents will come and they'll feel really

429
00:15:53,166 --> 00:15:53,766
they'll say you know

430
00:15:53,766 --> 00:15:55,066
oh we're really connected

431
00:15:55,216 --> 00:15:58,100
like we have we have good times together

432
00:15:58,100 --> 00:16:01,500
other parents come and they're feeling like

433
00:16:01,500 --> 00:16:04,716
I hate this kid I can't stand him

434
00:16:04,816 --> 00:16:06,416
other parents are feeling like

435
00:16:06,416 --> 00:16:08,816
I'm terrified of him I don't wanna be alone with him

436
00:16:08,816 --> 00:16:10,366
I'm afraid he's gonna hurt me

437
00:16:10,366 --> 00:16:11,166
I mean

438
00:16:11,500 --> 00:16:13,966
there are all sorts of feelings that we're coming

439
00:16:13,966 --> 00:16:16,050
to this work with yeah

440
00:16:16,050 --> 00:16:21,833
but we have to take the time regardless to spend um

441
00:16:21,850 --> 00:16:23,166
some one on one time

442
00:16:23,166 --> 00:16:25,550
to really nurture those relationships

443
00:16:25,716 --> 00:16:26,650
so that not

444
00:16:26,650 --> 00:16:28,733
just so that the child

445
00:16:28,733 --> 00:16:31,500
has some reserves of love to go on

446
00:16:31,500 --> 00:16:33,550
as he's moving through his world

447
00:16:33,750 --> 00:16:34,566
but also

448
00:16:34,566 --> 00:16:37,500
so that we can remember that we actually like the kid

449
00:16:37,500 --> 00:16:41,216
and we can feel inspired to want to help him do better

450
00:16:41,216 --> 00:16:42,766
and help things go better

451
00:16:42,766 --> 00:16:44,333
oftentimes when we

452
00:16:44,333 --> 00:16:46,100
I teach a practice called special time

453
00:16:46,100 --> 00:16:46,700
and oftentimes

454
00:16:46,700 --> 00:16:48,700
there's sort of resistance on the part of the parents

455
00:16:48,700 --> 00:16:49,500
knowing ah

456
00:16:49,700 --> 00:16:50,733
don't feel like doing this

457
00:16:50,733 --> 00:16:52,700
it takes time um

458
00:16:52,700 --> 00:16:54,616
and then they'll come back to me and say like

459
00:16:54,616 --> 00:16:56,366
you know I thought this was for my kid

460
00:16:56,366 --> 00:16:59,300
but actually I'm really liking it

461
00:16:59,300 --> 00:17:01,533
yeah because there's amazing side effects

462
00:17:01,533 --> 00:17:02,650
like for example

463
00:17:02,650 --> 00:17:04,133
so many parents come to me

464
00:17:04,133 --> 00:17:05,250
and they're complaining

465
00:17:05,250 --> 00:17:07,016
that their boy never talks to them

466
00:17:07,016 --> 00:17:08,250
you know he doesn't tell me anything

467
00:17:08,250 --> 00:17:12,250
especially moms because a lot of moms are much more

468
00:17:12,250 --> 00:17:13,933
sort of verbal in their processing

469
00:17:13,933 --> 00:17:16,533
and we wanna talk to our friends about our feelings

470
00:17:16,533 --> 00:17:17,500
and how things are going

471
00:17:17,500 --> 00:17:19,100
and we want our boys to do the same with us

472
00:17:19,100 --> 00:17:21,433
and some do and some don't

473
00:17:21,850 --> 00:17:25,566
and so they're wanting to get their kid to talk to them

474
00:17:25,566 --> 00:17:27,650
and he's just not and often times

475
00:17:27,650 --> 00:17:30,133
when they start this practice of special time

476
00:17:30,133 --> 00:17:34,666
one of the beautiful side effects is he starts sharing

477
00:17:35,700 --> 00:17:37,816
yeah so tell me more about special time

478
00:17:37,816 --> 00:17:39,450
what what is special time and and

479
00:17:39,450 --> 00:17:41,833
and how do we practice it

480
00:17:42,100 --> 00:17:42,850
yeah special time is

481
00:17:42,850 --> 00:17:43,933
just a simple

482
00:17:43,933 --> 00:17:46,500
one on one time that you spend with your child

483
00:17:46,500 --> 00:17:49,816
where they get to lead so it's

484
00:17:49,816 --> 00:17:50,800
it's um

485
00:17:52,250 --> 00:17:54,566
it turns upside down

486
00:17:54,566 --> 00:17:57,466
kind of their daily experience as young children

487
00:17:57,500 --> 00:18:00,333
of adults running their lives right

488
00:18:00,333 --> 00:18:01,566
cause if you think about it

489
00:18:01,566 --> 00:18:02,766
if you have a young child

490
00:18:02,766 --> 00:18:04,550
if you have a young boy it's like

491
00:18:04,566 --> 00:18:05,850
you know brush your teeth

492
00:18:05,850 --> 00:18:07,416
get your clothes on go to school

493
00:18:07,416 --> 00:18:10,233
did you do your homework time for practice

494
00:18:10,966 --> 00:18:11,650
it's it's just

495
00:18:11,650 --> 00:18:13,816
we're constantly kind of pulling and tugging

496
00:18:13,816 --> 00:18:15,933
and pulling and pushing and and

497
00:18:15,933 --> 00:18:19,850
and dictating what to do and then also what not to do

498
00:18:19,850 --> 00:18:21,416
you know stop yelling at your sister

499
00:18:21,416 --> 00:18:22,766
don't push your brother all

500
00:18:22,766 --> 00:18:24,000
all the things

501
00:18:24,133 --> 00:18:24,533
so so

502
00:18:24,533 --> 00:18:27,150
what special hand does is it gives him this timed

503
00:18:27,216 --> 00:18:28,216
little um

504
00:18:28,216 --> 00:18:31,900
bubble where he gets to be in charge

505
00:18:31,900 --> 00:18:33,566
and it's quite empowering

506
00:18:33,566 --> 00:18:35,250
and it's also enlightening for us

507
00:18:35,250 --> 00:18:37,966
because we get insights into his world

508
00:18:37,966 --> 00:18:40,016
I often call it a window into his world

509
00:18:40,016 --> 00:18:40,900
yeah that's

510
00:18:40,900 --> 00:18:42,016
where he might share something

511
00:18:42,016 --> 00:18:43,133
that he wouldn't otherwise share

512
00:18:43,133 --> 00:18:46,700
because maybe when he usually comes home and he wants

513
00:18:46,700 --> 00:18:47,733
he has something on his mind

514
00:18:47,733 --> 00:18:50,233
and we start drilling him like a drill sergeant

515
00:18:50,366 --> 00:18:53,100
he kind of clams up and shuts down sure

516
00:18:53,100 --> 00:18:54,333
but if we're quiet

517
00:18:54,333 --> 00:18:57,316
and we're just following his lead in special time

518
00:18:57,416 --> 00:18:59,416
he gets to share what he wants

519
00:18:59,416 --> 00:19:02,000
when he wants on his own terms

520
00:19:02,250 --> 00:19:03,333
so it's it's nice

521
00:19:03,333 --> 00:19:05,766
and you also get to see like what he's interested in

522
00:19:05,766 --> 00:19:06,216
yeah

523
00:19:06,216 --> 00:19:10,150
when you're not sort of dictating what's coming next

524
00:19:10,450 --> 00:19:12,050
yeah so special time is a great way to do

525
00:19:12,050 --> 00:19:13,900
it's not the only way to build connection

526
00:19:13,900 --> 00:19:14,766
but it's one

527
00:19:14,766 --> 00:19:18,666
1 tool that I love parents to have in their toolbox

528
00:19:19,016 --> 00:19:21,333
and it has to be with no other kids around

529
00:19:21,333 --> 00:19:23,216
so it's really like showing them

530
00:19:23,216 --> 00:19:25,716
I am putting everything else aside

531
00:19:25,733 --> 00:19:27,450
my email my work

532
00:19:27,450 --> 00:19:28,966
my partner if I have one

533
00:19:28,966 --> 00:19:31,350
your siblings if those exist right

534
00:19:31,416 --> 00:19:36,166
I am all in just for you and that's an amazing feeling

535
00:19:36,166 --> 00:19:37,900
and it's just one kid at a time

536
00:19:37,900 --> 00:19:39,933
right and even the other sibling is gone

537
00:19:39,933 --> 00:19:41,966
we're just doing this one kid

538
00:19:41,966 --> 00:19:42,700
one kid this

539
00:19:42,700 --> 00:19:45,000
this tool is one a one kid tool

540
00:19:45,416 --> 00:19:46,566
yeah I love this

541
00:19:46,566 --> 00:19:49,316
and how often would you recommend people do this

542
00:19:49,733 --> 00:19:50,300
you know it's

543
00:19:50,300 --> 00:19:52,250
there's there's no one size fits all

544
00:19:52,250 --> 00:19:53,133
I'll say to parent you know

545
00:19:53,133 --> 00:19:55,333
if you if you're coming to me for coaching and

546
00:19:55,333 --> 00:19:57,400
and you've got a kid who is

547
00:19:57,850 --> 00:19:58,933
you know aggressive

548
00:19:58,933 --> 00:19:59,850
very aggressive on

549
00:19:59,850 --> 00:20:01,700
on the daily and multiple times a day

550
00:20:01,700 --> 00:20:02,616
and there's sibling stuff

551
00:20:02,616 --> 00:20:04,550
or he's hurting you as a parent

552
00:20:04,700 --> 00:20:05,933
um you know

553
00:20:05,933 --> 00:20:07,450
we gotta we gotta do more

554
00:20:07,450 --> 00:20:10,000
if things are copacetic everybody's

555
00:20:10,650 --> 00:20:11,833
you know kind of

556
00:20:13,333 --> 00:20:15,050
moving along in life and everything's

557
00:20:15,050 --> 00:20:16,500
or most things are are going well

558
00:20:16,500 --> 00:20:17,700
and there's little blips here and there

559
00:20:17,700 --> 00:20:19,450
it's like whenever you can fit it

560
00:20:19,450 --> 00:20:23,450
in if you can do special time on the weekend for 10

561
00:20:23,450 --> 00:20:26,333
15 minutes every weekend that would be great yeah

562
00:20:26,333 --> 00:20:27,500
but if it's every day you know

563
00:20:27,500 --> 00:20:30,750
I'm gonna say like we we're gonna do this every day

564
00:20:30,816 --> 00:20:32,466
every day yeah

565
00:20:32,533 --> 00:20:35,450
cause he's screaming for help if he's acting like that

566
00:20:35,450 --> 00:20:37,966
yeah and we need to answer that call yeah

567
00:20:37,966 --> 00:20:40,466
one of the big unlocks for me in

568
00:20:40,900 --> 00:20:42,650
in in a way to that I

569
00:20:42,650 --> 00:20:44,333
that allowed me to keep in

570
00:20:44,333 --> 00:20:45,816
what I call my Sherlock brain

571
00:20:45,816 --> 00:20:48,233
as opposed to my Conan the barbarian brain right

572
00:20:48,450 --> 00:20:51,266
one of the big unlocks for me was to realize that

573
00:20:51,650 --> 00:20:53,216
there's a tension and

574
00:20:53,216 --> 00:20:55,366
and both of my kids and all kids

575
00:20:55,366 --> 00:20:56,650
I think have

576
00:20:56,650 --> 00:20:58,666
live in this tension of

577
00:20:58,900 --> 00:21:02,316
they want connection and they want independence

578
00:21:02,450 --> 00:21:05,333
and sometimes they're feeling not independent enough

579
00:21:05,333 --> 00:21:06,166
and so

580
00:21:06,166 --> 00:21:08,050
they're trying to assert their independence by saying

581
00:21:08,050 --> 00:21:09,550
no all the time for example

582
00:21:09,750 --> 00:21:11,500
and sometimes they

583
00:21:11,500 --> 00:21:12,700
they're not getting enough connection

584
00:21:12,700 --> 00:21:13,566
and so

585
00:21:13,566 --> 00:21:15,700
they're spending more time trying to get connection

586
00:21:15,700 --> 00:21:18,016
and often times the way that

587
00:21:18,016 --> 00:21:21,700
their reflex to get connection is to act in ways

588
00:21:21,700 --> 00:21:23,416
that make it harder to connect

589
00:21:23,416 --> 00:21:24,333
to scream and yell

590
00:21:24,333 --> 00:21:26,200
or throw tantrums and those sorts of things

591
00:21:26,300 --> 00:21:29,416
and when I was able to take a step back

592
00:21:29,416 --> 00:21:31,016
and look at the 50,000 foot view

593
00:21:31,016 --> 00:21:32,216
and realize oh okay

594
00:21:32,216 --> 00:21:34,333
they're often seeking one of those two things

595
00:21:34,333 --> 00:21:39,633
then now all I need are tools to to enhance the

596
00:21:39,766 --> 00:21:41,866
connection or the independence

597
00:21:41,900 --> 00:21:43,900
in a way that's consistent with our values

598
00:21:43,900 --> 00:21:46,116
so I'm not going to respond

599
00:21:46,216 --> 00:21:48,533
in a favorable way to throwing the tantrum

600
00:21:48,533 --> 00:21:50,833
but I am still going to go

601
00:21:50,900 --> 00:21:53,716
try and establish additional connection

602
00:21:54,250 --> 00:21:54,650
right well

603
00:21:54,650 --> 00:21:56,766
one one of the things that's really cool

604
00:21:56,766 --> 00:22:00,366
another side effect of of special time

605
00:22:00,366 --> 00:22:01,300
which is really cool

606
00:22:01,300 --> 00:22:05,700
is that our kids begin to ask for it

607
00:22:05,700 --> 00:22:08,966
and that's always how I know with clients that they're

608
00:22:08,966 --> 00:22:10,450
they're doing what they need to be doing

609
00:22:10,450 --> 00:22:12,900
and things are shifting because you're right

610
00:22:12,900 --> 00:22:13,100
like

611
00:22:13,100 --> 00:22:16,700
kids will ask for attention and call for attention and

612
00:22:16,700 --> 00:22:18,566
because they need it yeah

613
00:22:18,566 --> 00:22:20,300
I'll say um but often

614
00:22:20,300 --> 00:22:23,050
in ways that are really hard for us to respond to

615
00:22:23,050 --> 00:22:25,200
calmly or positively as parents

616
00:22:25,366 --> 00:22:27,450
but when you start the practice of special time

617
00:22:27,450 --> 00:22:30,100
and they start to realize on a subconscious level wow

618
00:22:30,100 --> 00:22:33,316
when we're doing this like I feel better

619
00:22:33,566 --> 00:22:34,366
uh huh

620
00:22:34,933 --> 00:22:37,216
yeah and they're not like cognitively going over wow

621
00:22:37,216 --> 00:22:39,416
I feel more connected to my dad or you know

622
00:22:39,416 --> 00:22:40,166
anything like that

623
00:22:40,166 --> 00:22:43,233
but like it's a somatic experience that they're having

624
00:22:43,300 --> 00:22:43,733
yeah they and

625
00:22:43,733 --> 00:22:45,300
and you call it something

626
00:22:45,300 --> 00:22:46,500
and it doesn't have to be special time

627
00:22:46,500 --> 00:22:47,566
but you call it something

628
00:22:47,566 --> 00:22:50,300
they then have a vocabulary word that they can use

629
00:22:50,300 --> 00:22:52,566
and they will start asking for it

630
00:22:52,566 --> 00:22:55,166
like I'll just say when one of my kids was really young

631
00:22:55,166 --> 00:22:57,100
he used to have such a hard time when I

632
00:22:57,100 --> 00:22:58,650
would go out for the evening

633
00:22:58,650 --> 00:23:01,416
like if it wasn't friends work whatever yeah um

634
00:23:01,416 --> 00:23:04,250
and he would do that thing where he'd cling to my leg

635
00:23:04,250 --> 00:23:06,050
right the thing you can't get him off

636
00:23:06,050 --> 00:23:08,766
and crying and screaming and hitting

637
00:23:08,766 --> 00:23:09,966
and all the things and

638
00:23:09,966 --> 00:23:10,700
and it was like

639
00:23:10,700 --> 00:23:13,050
by the time I peeled him off and got myself

640
00:23:13,050 --> 00:23:14,866
you know out the door

641
00:23:15,333 --> 00:23:17,016
I felt horrible I mean

642
00:23:17,016 --> 00:23:18,300
how much fun was I gonna have

643
00:23:18,300 --> 00:23:19,650
how great was that evening gonna go

644
00:23:19,650 --> 00:23:21,233
I was just thinking about him

645
00:23:21,450 --> 00:23:21,650
and then

646
00:23:21,650 --> 00:23:24,333
I had this idea that I could start doing special time

647
00:23:24,333 --> 00:23:28,066
before I left and give him that sort of extra

648
00:23:28,616 --> 00:23:30,000
um sort of uh

649
00:23:30,133 --> 00:23:33,166
you know inject a shot of connection yeah

650
00:23:33,166 --> 00:23:35,216
of connection before I left

651
00:23:35,216 --> 00:23:37,050
and things started to go better

652
00:23:37,050 --> 00:23:39,050
and then I don't know

653
00:23:39,050 --> 00:23:41,050
wasn't maybe a couple weeks later and I said hey

654
00:23:41,050 --> 00:23:43,533
you know I'm going out tonight and he said well

655
00:23:43,533 --> 00:23:45,950
can we do special time before you leave

656
00:23:45,950 --> 00:23:46,650
wow right

657
00:23:46,650 --> 00:23:49,700
and so he then had the vocabulary to ask for

658
00:23:49,700 --> 00:23:52,816
the thing that he knew helped him with that transition

659
00:23:52,816 --> 00:23:53,616
yeah

660
00:23:54,100 --> 00:23:56,900
that is such a powerful skill or a powerful tool

661
00:23:56,900 --> 00:23:59,016
I love that okay

662
00:23:59,016 --> 00:24:00,600
so we've cared for ourselves

663
00:24:00,900 --> 00:24:03,400
we've connected deeply now

664
00:24:04,450 --> 00:24:07,300
so then if we're going through like aggression steps

665
00:24:07,300 --> 00:24:08,166
and and mind you

666
00:24:08,166 --> 00:24:10,133
I just wanna say everybody's different

667
00:24:10,133 --> 00:24:10,416
absolutely

668
00:24:10,416 --> 00:24:13,500
but if I were gonna go sort of a step by step

669
00:24:13,500 --> 00:24:15,500
the next thing that I would probably have you do

670
00:24:15,500 --> 00:24:19,233
is pay attention to when the aggression happens because

671
00:24:20,450 --> 00:24:23,816
99% of the parents who come to me will say things like

672
00:24:23,816 --> 00:24:28,066
it happens out of the blue or it's all the time

673
00:24:28,416 --> 00:24:31,566
and I've been doing this for a long time

674
00:24:31,566 --> 00:24:32,666
couple decades

675
00:24:33,250 --> 00:24:34,900
I've never found that to be the case

676
00:24:34,900 --> 00:24:36,016
not ever yeah

677
00:24:36,016 --> 00:24:37,566
it's just not out of the blue

678
00:24:37,566 --> 00:24:39,750
there are always signs

679
00:24:39,900 --> 00:24:41,916
and when we can identify those patterns

680
00:24:41,933 --> 00:24:43,616
we empower ourselves

681
00:24:43,616 --> 00:24:45,300
to be able to take leadership roles

682
00:24:45,300 --> 00:24:47,800
and make plans for how we're gonna respond differently

683
00:24:49,100 --> 00:24:50,466
yeah I

684
00:24:50,933 --> 00:24:52,116
I love that

685
00:24:52,816 --> 00:24:53,416
yeah and then

686
00:24:53,416 --> 00:24:53,650
so OK

687
00:24:53,650 --> 00:24:56,366
so now I'm identifying the patterns and I realized that

688
00:24:56,366 --> 00:24:57,516
you know this happens

689
00:24:58,216 --> 00:24:58,416
I I

690
00:24:58,416 --> 00:25:01,150
I I experienced this very thing

691
00:25:01,333 --> 00:25:04,566
um if my boy's been spending too much time on his iPad

692
00:25:04,566 --> 00:25:07,200
watching YouTube videos um

693
00:25:07,416 --> 00:25:09,666
he'll start to get aggressive

694
00:25:09,966 --> 00:25:12,350
yeah and so now what do I do

695
00:25:12,850 --> 00:25:13,416
yeah I mean

696
00:25:13,416 --> 00:25:14,216
I think that

697
00:25:14,216 --> 00:25:17,433
that's a big can of worms you just tossed out there

698
00:25:17,500 --> 00:25:17,733
yeah um

699
00:25:17,733 --> 00:25:20,116
I just wrote an email to my uh

700
00:25:20,416 --> 00:25:21,650
you know a newsletter to my

701
00:25:21,650 --> 00:25:22,533
to my uh

702
00:25:22,533 --> 00:25:24,900
followers this this last week about this

703
00:25:24,900 --> 00:25:26,833
I cannot tell you how many

704
00:25:27,016 --> 00:25:30,366
clients are coming to me in the last few months

705
00:25:30,366 --> 00:25:32,800
with their kids playing Roblox

706
00:25:33,366 --> 00:25:35,216
and are so addicted

707
00:25:35,216 --> 00:25:37,333
that when the parents are asking them to get off

708
00:25:37,333 --> 00:25:39,950
they're getting punched in the stomach yeah

709
00:25:40,533 --> 00:25:42,766
they're getting like physically hurt things

710
00:25:42,766 --> 00:25:44,033
are getting broken

711
00:25:44,300 --> 00:25:47,016
like that's what this addiction is doing

712
00:25:47,016 --> 00:25:50,700
so I mean depending on where you're at with that

713
00:25:50,700 --> 00:25:51,850
like where parents are at

714
00:25:51,850 --> 00:25:52,016
I mean

715
00:25:52,016 --> 00:25:54,333
there's a lot of different things that we're gonna do

716
00:25:54,333 --> 00:25:54,966
yeah um

717
00:25:54,966 --> 00:26:01,633
but the big picture whether it be for tech or other

718
00:26:01,733 --> 00:26:03,700
you know other triggers for

719
00:26:03,700 --> 00:26:05,716
for the um aggression

720
00:26:05,900 --> 00:26:07,300
we're basically gonna be looking at

721
00:26:07,300 --> 00:26:09,850
how do we set loving limits yeah

722
00:26:09,850 --> 00:26:11,266
for this child

723
00:26:12,050 --> 00:26:13,816
so and by a loving limit I

724
00:26:13,816 --> 00:26:17,766
I just mean the tone that we use is gonna be loving

725
00:26:17,766 --> 00:26:19,933
we're gonna give it to them as my mentor taught me

726
00:26:19,933 --> 00:26:21,516
like we're giving them a gift

727
00:26:21,766 --> 00:26:23,733
it's not a punishment a limit isn't a

728
00:26:23,733 --> 00:26:24,900
a punishment

729
00:26:24,900 --> 00:26:28,250
it's not like a consequence like if you do this

730
00:26:28,250 --> 00:26:30,900
then I'm gonna do that kind of a thing not that tone

731
00:26:30,900 --> 00:26:33,550
not that attitude at all it's more of the

732
00:26:33,566 --> 00:26:35,766
the the tone of hey

733
00:26:35,766 --> 00:26:41,116
you know I noticed that when you play Roblox

734
00:26:41,566 --> 00:26:43,933
for an hour after school um

735
00:26:43,933 --> 00:26:46,033
when I ask you to turn it off

736
00:26:46,616 --> 00:26:47,850
we thought and you thought

737
00:26:47,850 --> 00:26:50,916
and I thought that it would just be an easy transition

738
00:26:51,333 --> 00:26:52,650
but what's happening is

739
00:26:52,650 --> 00:26:55,016
I'm actually getting hurt or things are getting broken

740
00:26:55,016 --> 00:26:57,733
so I thought this was gonna work and that was okay

741
00:26:57,733 --> 00:26:58,833
but it's not

742
00:26:59,250 --> 00:27:02,550
and so I'm gonna start holding limits around this

743
00:27:02,800 --> 00:27:04,216
and you can tell them ahead of time

744
00:27:04,216 --> 00:27:07,250
but then you're actually gonna learn how to bring a

745
00:27:07,250 --> 00:27:08,850
limit like not just yell at

746
00:27:08,850 --> 00:27:11,966
but actually make the thing happen

747
00:27:11,966 --> 00:27:14,933
so a lot of limit setting with aggression a lot

748
00:27:14,933 --> 00:27:16,350
a lot and you

749
00:27:17,366 --> 00:27:18,933
to what extent do you should

750
00:27:18,933 --> 00:27:22,716
we give them input into what those limits ought to be

751
00:27:23,450 --> 00:27:24,533
um you know

752
00:27:24,533 --> 00:27:26,816
that depends on their maturity level

753
00:27:26,816 --> 00:27:30,200
it also depends on your values and your relationship

754
00:27:30,216 --> 00:27:31,416
yeah I would also say

755
00:27:31,416 --> 00:27:34,316
a litmus test that I like to use with parents is

756
00:27:34,366 --> 00:27:37,816
are you confused about your limits

757
00:27:37,816 --> 00:27:40,433
or are you questioning this limit

758
00:27:40,500 --> 00:27:44,100
because you're afraid of how he's going to react to it

759
00:27:44,100 --> 00:27:45,550
or how he's gonna respond

760
00:27:45,566 --> 00:27:46,766
because if that's the case

761
00:27:46,766 --> 00:27:48,650
we need to revisit that yeah

762
00:27:48,650 --> 00:27:51,700
if you're just thinking to yourself well

763
00:27:51,700 --> 00:27:52,500
you know

764
00:27:52,566 --> 00:27:56,850
he likes to have a say in in in what happens and I'm

765
00:27:56,850 --> 00:27:59,333
I'm okay with sort of co

766
00:27:59,333 --> 00:28:02,300
creating this next plan with him

767
00:28:02,300 --> 00:28:04,716
and seeing how it goes as long as it

768
00:28:04,766 --> 00:28:06,733
you know X doesn't happen or why doesn't happen

769
00:28:06,733 --> 00:28:08,300
or it's within certain boundaries

770
00:28:08,300 --> 00:28:10,616
then you could absolutely start there

771
00:28:10,616 --> 00:28:12,616
like I just worked with a couple um

772
00:28:12,616 --> 00:28:15,916
and and we had this exact conversation and they decided

773
00:28:15,966 --> 00:28:18,766
um because of who their boy is

774
00:28:18,766 --> 00:28:20,133
and what they know about him

775
00:28:20,133 --> 00:28:24,533
he tends to be sort of a PDA kind of a profile and he

776
00:28:24,533 --> 00:28:26,900
he pushes back and

777
00:28:26,900 --> 00:28:29,350
and he does better when he gets to say

778
00:28:29,450 --> 00:28:31,450
and so there was a red line right

779
00:28:31,450 --> 00:28:32,700
they can't have the aggression

780
00:28:32,700 --> 00:28:35,000
after the test goes off but

781
00:28:35,566 --> 00:28:37,850
there are a few ways that we could go about doing that

782
00:28:37,850 --> 00:28:40,500
we could do we could go cold Turkey and do like

783
00:28:40,500 --> 00:28:42,266
a tech fast for two weeks

784
00:28:42,300 --> 00:28:45,550
or we could go back to um

785
00:28:45,850 --> 00:28:47,500
kind of a a time limit

786
00:28:47,500 --> 00:28:49,650
strategy that we had been doing a few months ago when

787
00:28:49,650 --> 00:28:50,933
and the aggression wasn't

788
00:28:50,933 --> 00:28:52,466
you know wasn't present then

789
00:28:52,566 --> 00:28:54,100
so they decided that

790
00:28:54,100 --> 00:28:57,450
even though they knew which one he would likely choose

791
00:28:57,450 --> 00:29:00,216
they wanted to present him the option of hey

792
00:29:00,216 --> 00:29:02,800
this isn't working yeah um

793
00:29:02,816 --> 00:29:04,733
so we're gonna try something different

794
00:29:04,733 --> 00:29:05,850
would you like this or this

795
00:29:05,850 --> 00:29:08,166
what do you think what would you like to try as the

796
00:29:08,166 --> 00:29:09,833
as the next experiment

797
00:29:10,216 --> 00:29:12,416
and so that would be an example of

798
00:29:12,416 --> 00:29:15,016
of parents who decided but

799
00:29:15,016 --> 00:29:16,450
a different set of parents could have

800
00:29:16,450 --> 00:29:17,733
decided something completely different

801
00:29:17,733 --> 00:29:18,916
and that would have been fine

802
00:29:18,966 --> 00:29:20,933
you get you're the expert on your family right

803
00:29:20,933 --> 00:29:22,033
you get to decide

804
00:29:22,616 --> 00:29:23,600
yeah I think

805
00:29:23,700 --> 00:29:24,750
you know my

806
00:29:25,333 --> 00:29:27,333
my instinct on that you know

807
00:29:27,333 --> 00:29:29,166
based on how I was raised right

808
00:29:29,166 --> 00:29:32,166
which is one of the one of my fundamental things

809
00:29:32,166 --> 00:29:34,500
is that the way that I was raised is maladaptive

810
00:29:34,500 --> 00:29:37,366
for our modern society and in a lot of ways

811
00:29:37,366 --> 00:29:39,950
and the way that I was raised is my

812
00:29:40,016 --> 00:29:41,850
and my my gut reaction is okay

813
00:29:41,850 --> 00:29:43,033
I'm gonna bring the hammer

814
00:29:43,100 --> 00:29:44,366
if you're gonna have interact

815
00:29:44,366 --> 00:29:47,300
if you're gonna have that kind of aggression

816
00:29:47,300 --> 00:29:48,300
after you play Roblox well

817
00:29:48,300 --> 00:29:50,216
then no freaking Roblox right

818
00:29:50,216 --> 00:29:50,900
and then it it

819
00:29:50,900 --> 00:29:55,216
it turns into this absolute nightmare because the

820
00:29:55,216 --> 00:29:59,566
the aggression finds another outlet and it isn't it's

821
00:29:59,566 --> 00:30:02,950
it ends up getting enhanced by that solution

822
00:30:03,016 --> 00:30:05,366
rather than suppressed by it right

823
00:30:05,366 --> 00:30:07,450
and so what I would do in working with parents is say

824
00:30:07,450 --> 00:30:09,133
like you know what actually Sean

825
00:30:09,133 --> 00:30:12,650
I think you have a reasonable ask

826
00:30:12,650 --> 00:30:15,050
or a reasonable experiment to try

827
00:30:15,050 --> 00:30:17,333
which is to go cold Turkey and do a tech fast

828
00:30:17,333 --> 00:30:18,766
like I think that's reasonable

829
00:30:18,766 --> 00:30:18,933
like

830
00:30:18,933 --> 00:30:21,416
let's talk about if that aligns with your values of

831
00:30:21,416 --> 00:30:22,016
you know how

832
00:30:22,016 --> 00:30:23,516
and then we can play out like

833
00:30:23,933 --> 00:30:26,916
how we think your kids gonna react

834
00:30:26,933 --> 00:30:29,800
we can set you up for success in those situations

835
00:30:30,050 --> 00:30:33,000
and we can prepare you so that you can show up

836
00:30:33,366 --> 00:30:36,033
still with that limit but in a loving way

837
00:30:37,016 --> 00:30:38,166
like I get

838
00:30:38,166 --> 00:30:40,533
I see this is hard we're gonna get through this yeah

839
00:30:40,533 --> 00:30:43,000
I know you can do it and I'm here to help

840
00:30:43,650 --> 00:30:45,733
because that's also empowering to them

841
00:30:45,733 --> 00:30:49,933
to know that they can actually do alright without it

842
00:30:49,933 --> 00:30:51,316
they don't want to be aggressive

843
00:30:51,366 --> 00:30:52,616
right like they

844
00:30:52,616 --> 00:30:54,566
they love that reassurance of

845
00:30:54,566 --> 00:30:56,516
I know you can do this

846
00:30:56,966 --> 00:30:58,100
and we're gonna get through this

847
00:30:58,100 --> 00:30:59,416
I'm gonna help you yeah

848
00:30:59,416 --> 00:30:59,816
they don't

849
00:30:59,816 --> 00:31:01,800
they actually don't wanna feel that way either

850
00:31:01,966 --> 00:31:04,366
no they feel like they do

851
00:31:04,366 --> 00:31:05,633
but they don't

852
00:31:06,450 --> 00:31:08,550
they feel horrible yeah

853
00:31:08,850 --> 00:31:11,266
I I find another one of my

854
00:31:11,500 --> 00:31:12,750
uh reflexes

855
00:31:12,766 --> 00:31:16,816
that doesn't really work all that well is to like

856
00:31:16,816 --> 00:31:18,350
try and stop and give him a lecture

857
00:31:19,216 --> 00:31:20,466
oh I love that one

858
00:31:20,616 --> 00:31:21,050
yeah and

859
00:31:21,050 --> 00:31:22,100
and it's almost like

860
00:31:22,100 --> 00:31:24,733
I feel like I can reason him out of the tantrum or

861
00:31:24,733 --> 00:31:27,366
or reason him out of the the like OK

862
00:31:27,366 --> 00:31:29,300
I've taken the the iPad away

863
00:31:29,300 --> 00:31:31,350
and now I'm gonna sit him down and make him

864
00:31:31,416 --> 00:31:34,450
listen to me drone on for 10 minutes

865
00:31:34,450 --> 00:31:36,166
about the importance of balance in life

866
00:31:36,166 --> 00:31:37,516
and all this BS

867
00:31:37,566 --> 00:31:39,416
and I mean you've

868
00:31:39,416 --> 00:31:43,716
you've done a lot of you you speak very negatively uh

869
00:31:43,733 --> 00:31:45,266
to that and it was

870
00:31:45,450 --> 00:31:48,400
it was eye opening to me tell me more about that

871
00:31:48,566 --> 00:31:49,100
yeah yeah

872
00:31:49,100 --> 00:31:49,416
I I'm

873
00:31:49,416 --> 00:31:54,116
I'm a big like zip your mouth shut coach

874
00:31:54,333 --> 00:31:58,550
yeah I'm not a let's name the feelings coach

875
00:31:58,766 --> 00:32:03,100
because what I've seen over 20 years of doing this

876
00:32:03,100 --> 00:32:06,250
is that 99.9% of the time

877
00:32:06,250 --> 00:32:07,566
when we try to like

878
00:32:07,566 --> 00:32:11,500
name the feeling or if we are moving in with

879
00:32:11,500 --> 00:32:15,050
like you said this lecture about life and balance

880
00:32:15,050 --> 00:32:16,750
and all the things that are

881
00:32:16,850 --> 00:32:19,666
you know important to us and rightly so

882
00:32:20,333 --> 00:32:23,333
it doesn't land yeah right

883
00:32:23,333 --> 00:32:24,700
it doesn't land in that moment

884
00:32:24,700 --> 00:32:27,300
but it often also doesn't land outside the moment

885
00:32:27,300 --> 00:32:27,766
right and

886
00:32:27,766 --> 00:32:29,850
and I'm just very pragmatic

887
00:32:29,850 --> 00:32:30,900
if you're coming to me

888
00:32:30,900 --> 00:32:33,050
like there's aggression going on

889
00:32:33,050 --> 00:32:34,333
or your boy is struggling

890
00:32:34,333 --> 00:32:36,050
like I want things to go better

891
00:32:36,050 --> 00:32:37,050
and I know that they

892
00:32:37,050 --> 00:32:40,950
can and that's just not gonna help it

893
00:32:40,966 --> 00:32:43,250
I just say to parents straight up like okay

894
00:32:43,250 --> 00:32:44,600
I would just say to you like

895
00:32:44,616 --> 00:32:46,500
how's that going for you Sean

896
00:32:46,500 --> 00:32:48,633
is that working yeah

897
00:32:49,700 --> 00:32:50,600
is that working

898
00:32:51,966 --> 00:32:53,866
yeah and it doesn't work

899
00:32:53,900 --> 00:32:55,133
and it doesn't work I mean

900
00:32:55,133 --> 00:32:57,533
one of the one of the things that I realized and

901
00:32:57,533 --> 00:32:59,766
and it goes back to that metaphor of the Sherlock

902
00:32:59,766 --> 00:33:02,033
Holmes brain versus the cone on the barbarian brain

903
00:33:02,133 --> 00:33:04,116
the the kids in cone on the barbarian bro

904
00:33:04,566 --> 00:33:10,550
and if you try and use Sherlock tools to

905
00:33:10,566 --> 00:33:13,350
to get to him in in Conan mode

906
00:33:13,416 --> 00:33:14,300
it's not gonna happen

907
00:33:14,300 --> 00:33:16,266
it's exactly the same thing if I'm

908
00:33:16,316 --> 00:33:19,000
you know having a yelling screaming fight with my wife

909
00:33:19,300 --> 00:33:20,733
it's not gonna it's not gonna happen

910
00:33:20,733 --> 00:33:21,966
it doesn't work with adults either

911
00:33:21,966 --> 00:33:23,650
it sure as heck isn't gonna work with a

912
00:33:23,650 --> 00:33:26,016
with a with a 5 year old kid yeah

913
00:33:26,016 --> 00:33:27,133
no I agree

914
00:33:27,133 --> 00:33:27,566
I I

915
00:33:27,566 --> 00:33:28,566
I I really agree

916
00:33:28,566 --> 00:33:29,616
and I think there's just like

917
00:33:29,616 --> 00:33:31,766
a fundamental misunderstanding also

918
00:33:31,766 --> 00:33:36,133
just about why they're acting out in this way

919
00:33:36,133 --> 00:33:39,833
and there's I talk about the the can versus the won't

920
00:33:39,933 --> 00:33:42,216
and I think when we're responding in that way

921
00:33:42,216 --> 00:33:43,900
with the lectures and whatnot

922
00:33:43,900 --> 00:33:46,733
we're in the mindset of my kid

923
00:33:46,733 --> 00:33:49,650
you know won't do what he knows is right

924
00:33:49,650 --> 00:33:52,116
or won't do what he should do

925
00:33:52,166 --> 00:33:52,650
um and

926
00:33:52,650 --> 00:33:55,766
and that's a really disempowering place to be like

927
00:33:55,766 --> 00:33:56,816
I don't even care if it's true

928
00:33:56,816 --> 00:33:58,966
or not it just is disempowering for us

929
00:33:58,966 --> 00:34:01,666
I would much rather have you in that mindset of

930
00:34:01,766 --> 00:34:03,300
he's doing the best he can

931
00:34:03,300 --> 00:34:04,333
always like yeah

932
00:34:04,333 --> 00:34:06,766
he just can't do better right now

933
00:34:06,766 --> 00:34:09,216
which isn't to say we're gonna excuse the behavior

934
00:34:09,216 --> 00:34:10,416
but what it does is

935
00:34:10,416 --> 00:34:13,216
it makes us refocus back on ourselves

936
00:34:13,216 --> 00:34:15,766
yeah and think about how can we modify what we're doing

937
00:34:15,766 --> 00:34:18,100
whether that be with limits or connection or

938
00:34:18,100 --> 00:34:18,850
you know play

939
00:34:18,850 --> 00:34:20,333
which we haven't stepped into

940
00:34:20,333 --> 00:34:22,566
but which is another thing that I really talk about

941
00:34:22,566 --> 00:34:23,650
in terms of um

942
00:34:23,650 --> 00:34:25,850
aggression like how do we use play strategically

943
00:34:25,850 --> 00:34:28,566
like how can we use these things

944
00:34:28,566 --> 00:34:31,900
to help make the situation better

945
00:34:31,900 --> 00:34:35,116
because he doesn't want to be acting this way

946
00:34:35,133 --> 00:34:37,666
he just can't do differently in this moment

947
00:34:38,133 --> 00:34:41,616
yeah and we react as I love that framing

948
00:34:41,616 --> 00:34:43,300
oh he won't behave in this way

949
00:34:43,300 --> 00:34:44,500
it's almost like saying oh

950
00:34:44,500 --> 00:34:47,733
he won't lift this 200 pound box right

951
00:34:47,733 --> 00:34:49,533
like you wouldn't say that

952
00:34:49,533 --> 00:34:51,100
but you do say it about behaviors

953
00:34:51,100 --> 00:34:52,550
well he doesn't have

954
00:34:52,566 --> 00:34:54,250
it's the same exact thing

955
00:34:54,250 --> 00:34:55,850
in the 200 pound box situation

956
00:34:55,850 --> 00:34:58,166
he doesn't have the strength

957
00:34:58,166 --> 00:34:59,916
or the skill or the muscles

958
00:35:00,450 --> 00:35:03,050
and it's exactly the same thing

959
00:35:03,050 --> 00:35:04,500
with the intellectual skills

960
00:35:04,500 --> 00:35:06,966
the intellectual muscles the intellectual strength

961
00:35:06,966 --> 00:35:10,366
he doesn't have to be able to adjust his behavior

962
00:35:10,366 --> 00:35:11,850
it's the exact same thing

963
00:35:11,850 --> 00:35:13,466
and yet we treat it differently

964
00:35:14,016 --> 00:35:14,966
I agree I

965
00:35:14,966 --> 00:35:17,133
I often use a broken arm example because I

966
00:35:17,133 --> 00:35:19,566
think parents really get it as I'll say to them

967
00:35:19,566 --> 00:35:23,366
look if he broke his arm and he had um

968
00:35:23,366 --> 00:35:24,100
you know a

969
00:35:24,100 --> 00:35:27,233
something that he had to write for school for homework

970
00:35:27,466 --> 00:35:27,933
and his

971
00:35:27,933 --> 00:35:29,966
he was right handed and his right arm was in a cast

972
00:35:29,966 --> 00:35:31,766
and he couldn't hold a pencil right

973
00:35:31,766 --> 00:35:33,966
you wouldn't be yelling and screaming him

974
00:35:33,966 --> 00:35:35,016
screaming at him about

975
00:35:35,016 --> 00:35:37,166
you know like get that pencil in your hand

976
00:35:37,166 --> 00:35:39,133
you need to write this homework out

977
00:35:39,133 --> 00:35:41,500
you know you wouldn't you would get creative

978
00:35:41,500 --> 00:35:43,366
you'd you'd be like alright

979
00:35:43,366 --> 00:35:46,416
well do you want to dictate and all write it or

980
00:35:46,416 --> 00:35:46,816
you know

981
00:35:46,816 --> 00:35:50,250
maybe there's some AI tool that you could use to do it

982
00:35:50,250 --> 00:35:52,333
right you'd help them get creative

983
00:35:52,333 --> 00:35:53,250
yeah and

984
00:35:53,250 --> 00:35:54,733
and we gotta do the same thing

985
00:35:54,733 --> 00:35:56,966
when it's just an emotional hurt

986
00:35:56,966 --> 00:35:58,916
rather than a physical hurt

987
00:36:00,050 --> 00:36:01,850
so let me ask you a provocative question of

988
00:36:01,850 --> 00:36:03,216
something that I've been thinking a lot about

989
00:36:03,216 --> 00:36:05,700
because what this brings to mind is that

990
00:36:05,700 --> 00:36:07,700
when you sit down and lecture them or or

991
00:36:07,700 --> 00:36:10,550
you know treat them as if they're not doing their best

992
00:36:10,933 --> 00:36:12,900
uh or they're doing it intentionally

993
00:36:12,900 --> 00:36:15,150
essentially what you're doing is shaming them

994
00:36:15,333 --> 00:36:18,450
you're you're kind of trying to make them feel shame

995
00:36:18,450 --> 00:36:20,066
for not doing the right thing

996
00:36:20,450 --> 00:36:23,366
and I have a hypothesis

997
00:36:23,366 --> 00:36:26,066
and I want your feedback on it is

998
00:36:26,100 --> 00:36:29,033
and the hypothesis is that there's never actually

999
00:36:29,216 --> 00:36:32,400
a valid use for shame as a parent

1000
00:36:32,733 --> 00:36:34,350
what is your reaction to that

1001
00:36:35,216 --> 00:36:37,650
I love that you're asking me that question right now

1002
00:36:37,650 --> 00:36:40,000
because I've been thinking about it a lot

1003
00:36:40,450 --> 00:36:41,316
um

1004
00:36:41,866 --> 00:36:43,216
I've been thinking about it a lot

1005
00:36:43,216 --> 00:36:46,233
because I recently did a training

1006
00:36:46,250 --> 00:36:48,533
I'm now trained in the space program

1007
00:36:48,533 --> 00:36:51,016
it's a program that Eli Lebowitz at Yale

1008
00:36:51,016 --> 00:36:55,216
put together to help kids with anxiety and OCD okay

1009
00:36:55,216 --> 00:36:59,000
and during that training um

1010
00:36:59,533 --> 00:37:02,233
there was a section around aggression

1011
00:37:02,766 --> 00:37:04,366
and a lot of what he does

1012
00:37:04,366 --> 00:37:07,050
and what he teaches is very similar to what I do

1013
00:37:07,050 --> 00:37:10,416
but one thing really struck me

1014
00:37:10,416 --> 00:37:13,350
and I'm trying to play around with it right now

1015
00:37:13,450 --> 00:37:16,866
and he said um

1016
00:37:18,616 --> 00:37:22,250
that if we think about like domestic violence right

1017
00:37:22,250 --> 00:37:24,366
if there's a if there's aggression in the home

1018
00:37:24,366 --> 00:37:27,433
let's just say one parent is being um

1019
00:37:27,450 --> 00:37:29,200
violent towards another

1020
00:37:30,616 --> 00:37:32,350
secrecy is a problem

1021
00:37:33,166 --> 00:37:33,500
right

1022
00:37:33,500 --> 00:37:38,833
we need to go public with it to protect the person

1023
00:37:38,900 --> 00:37:41,800
and to move forward on the healing

1024
00:37:43,450 --> 00:37:45,566
you know on the healing journey

1025
00:37:45,566 --> 00:37:46,716
yeah absolutely

1026
00:37:46,766 --> 00:37:50,266
and he said it's the same thing with this aggression

1027
00:37:51,050 --> 00:37:54,050
and he said something to the effect of

1028
00:37:54,050 --> 00:37:56,333
I'm totally paraphrasing that

1029
00:37:56,333 --> 00:37:58,616
that like a little bit of shame is okay

1030
00:37:58,616 --> 00:38:01,866
is useful for the child

1031
00:38:02,050 --> 00:38:06,350
in terms of being able to stop the aggression

1032
00:38:06,933 --> 00:38:10,833
I'm not saying I agree or I disagree

1033
00:38:10,900 --> 00:38:15,250
I'm simply playing with this right now with clients um

1034
00:38:15,250 --> 00:38:16,733
in a way that I haven't before

1035
00:38:16,733 --> 00:38:19,616
so part we talked earlier about setting up for success

1036
00:38:19,616 --> 00:38:21,250
and setting ourselves up for success

1037
00:38:21,250 --> 00:38:25,250
right when we're first starting to address aggression

1038
00:38:25,250 --> 00:38:26,766
and one of the things there is

1039
00:38:26,766 --> 00:38:30,200
is like I said are there people that we need to tell

1040
00:38:30,250 --> 00:38:32,450
um how do we use the resources in our life

1041
00:38:32,450 --> 00:38:35,233
and he introduced an idea that I hadn't

1042
00:38:35,400 --> 00:38:36,333
I thought about

1043
00:38:36,333 --> 00:38:39,616
which is to use what he calls supporters in a

1044
00:38:39,616 --> 00:38:43,733
in a really specific way where the child knows that

1045
00:38:43,733 --> 00:38:45,666
each time they're aggressive

1046
00:38:47,533 --> 00:38:50,800
we are going to tell that adult

1047
00:38:52,533 --> 00:38:53,800
that supporter

1048
00:38:53,966 --> 00:38:57,416
and then that supporter reaches out to the child

1049
00:38:57,416 --> 00:39:00,450
now what's interesting here is that yes

1050
00:39:00,450 --> 00:39:00,650
right

1051
00:39:00,650 --> 00:39:04,050
there's a little bit of shame there because any of us

1052
00:39:04,050 --> 00:39:05,316
when we do something

1053
00:39:05,900 --> 00:39:09,300
you know mean or hurtful to somebody we love and and

1054
00:39:09,300 --> 00:39:11,900
and we know other people we care about know about it

1055
00:39:11,900 --> 00:39:13,416
we feel shame yeah

1056
00:39:13,416 --> 00:39:15,266
but we also wanna do better

1057
00:39:15,333 --> 00:39:16,133
yeah

1058
00:39:16,500 --> 00:39:18,450
and the way that the

1059
00:39:18,450 --> 00:39:22,833
that supporter comes in and talks to the child

1060
00:39:22,850 --> 00:39:24,766
is very aligned with everything

1061
00:39:24,766 --> 00:39:26,666
that we've been talking about here

1062
00:39:26,733 --> 00:39:28,616
it's supportive it's loving

1063
00:39:28,616 --> 00:39:29,733
it's like you know I

1064
00:39:29,733 --> 00:39:32,016
I love you you're a great kid

1065
00:39:32,016 --> 00:39:35,966
like I know you don't want to hurt your mom um

1066
00:39:35,966 --> 00:39:38,000
you know I heard from her that

1067
00:39:38,300 --> 00:39:41,516
after she asked you to turn off your Roblox yesterday

1068
00:39:41,650 --> 00:39:43,650
that you punched her um

1069
00:39:43,650 --> 00:39:46,050
you know we know that's not okay

1070
00:39:46,050 --> 00:39:51,233
so next time you feel that um how about you

1071
00:39:52,966 --> 00:39:54,900
shoot me a text or how about

1072
00:39:54,900 --> 00:39:57,016
you call me or I don't know

1073
00:39:57,016 --> 00:39:58,616
like I'm just making this up on the spot or

1074
00:39:58,616 --> 00:39:58,766
or or

1075
00:39:58,766 --> 00:40:01,516
or what what do you think we should do next time

1076
00:40:01,816 --> 00:40:03,416
what do you think we should exactly what's our plan

1077
00:40:03,416 --> 00:40:04,716
so there's yeah something

1078
00:40:06,533 --> 00:40:08,366
I love that you just asked me about shame

1079
00:40:08,366 --> 00:40:10,733
because two weeks ago I would have said

1080
00:40:10,733 --> 00:40:12,133
there's no place for shame

1081
00:40:12,133 --> 00:40:13,566
no shame never

1082
00:40:13,566 --> 00:40:15,566
we don't want to shame a child yeah

1083
00:40:15,566 --> 00:40:18,050
and I'm always open to learning because like I said

1084
00:40:18,050 --> 00:40:20,333
I'm very pragmatic I want the aggression to stop

1085
00:40:20,333 --> 00:40:22,600
I mean I have great success with families

1086
00:40:22,650 --> 00:40:25,433
but if we can do it faster um

1087
00:40:25,450 --> 00:40:25,850
and and

1088
00:40:25,850 --> 00:40:29,533
and more efficiently and stop the aggression sooner

1089
00:40:29,533 --> 00:40:31,766
in a way that's still supportive of the child

1090
00:40:31,766 --> 00:40:34,250
you bet I'm in on that so I'm playing around with this

1091
00:40:34,250 --> 00:40:35,650
so I don't know I

1092
00:40:35,650 --> 00:40:37,700
I and I've been thinking a lot about it too

1093
00:40:37,700 --> 00:40:41,333
and what but what one of the things so I've got

1094
00:40:41,333 --> 00:40:42,616
I've got a couple of thoughts on it

1095
00:40:42,616 --> 00:40:44,666
that I'd love to share and get your feedback on

1096
00:40:44,966 --> 00:40:49,016
one of them is that I feel like shame is a tool

1097
00:40:49,016 --> 00:40:52,150
that our society and our culture uses

1098
00:40:52,416 --> 00:40:54,200
to communicate this favor

1099
00:40:54,300 --> 00:40:56,466
and it is really powerful

1100
00:40:56,533 --> 00:40:57,466
our

1101
00:40:58,450 --> 00:40:59,300
our feeling

1102
00:40:59,300 --> 00:41:03,366
our need to be part of the herd is so strong

1103
00:41:03,366 --> 00:41:06,850
that when we start to feel that shame

1104
00:41:06,850 --> 00:41:08,066
that societal shame

1105
00:41:08,333 --> 00:41:12,700
it becomes such a powerful force we almost want we

1106
00:41:12,700 --> 00:41:13,100
can't

1107
00:41:13,100 --> 00:41:16,400
we feel like we can't live without getting rid of it

1108
00:41:16,766 --> 00:41:20,533
and that's one thing another thing is

1109
00:41:20,533 --> 00:41:22,616
so it's really really powerful

1110
00:41:22,616 --> 00:41:25,416
but as with many powerful things

1111
00:41:25,416 --> 00:41:28,266
it loses its effectiveness if it's overused

1112
00:41:28,366 --> 00:41:30,233
and so if you

1113
00:41:30,933 --> 00:41:33,200
continuously shame somebody

1114
00:41:33,333 --> 00:41:35,650
eventually they're gonna become immune to shame

1115
00:41:35,650 --> 00:41:38,416
which is actually a much worse problem

1116
00:41:38,416 --> 00:41:41,616
than whatever it is that you think you're solving

1117
00:41:41,616 --> 00:41:42,800
by shaming people

1118
00:41:42,800 --> 00:41:45,733
so that's another observation that I think is true yeah

1119
00:41:45,733 --> 00:41:47,116
what do you think about those two things

1120
00:41:47,133 --> 00:41:48,100
well I think I

1121
00:41:48,100 --> 00:41:52,766
I'll just say that I think shame as a tool is horrible

1122
00:41:52,766 --> 00:41:55,200
yeah shame is not a parenting tool

1123
00:41:55,566 --> 00:41:56,800
let's just there is OK

1124
00:41:56,816 --> 00:41:57,816
that that that's

1125
00:41:57,816 --> 00:42:00,316
that's probably a principle that that we can

1126
00:42:00,533 --> 00:42:02,016
that is probably well established

1127
00:42:02,016 --> 00:42:02,733
I agree

1128
00:42:02,850 --> 00:42:03,333
yeah I

1129
00:42:03,333 --> 00:42:03,500
I I

1130
00:42:03,500 --> 00:42:07,950
I don't think our goal is ever to use shame

1131
00:42:08,166 --> 00:42:10,216
to transform behavior yeah

1132
00:42:10,216 --> 00:42:13,416
um I'm just getting curious with this new thing

1133
00:42:13,416 --> 00:42:18,866
if there's a way to bring something that

1134
00:42:19,100 --> 00:42:21,633
you know Brene Brown talks about shame

1135
00:42:22,016 --> 00:42:25,566
some kind of to paraphrase sloppily um

1136
00:42:25,566 --> 00:42:27,466
you know grows in in darkness

1137
00:42:27,533 --> 00:42:29,450
yes and so

1138
00:42:29,450 --> 00:42:32,833
we don't want to keep that aggression locked up

1139
00:42:33,050 --> 00:42:34,500
in a dark room right

1140
00:42:34,500 --> 00:42:39,950
because that child is feeling ashamed and ashamed

1141
00:42:39,966 --> 00:42:41,700
because of what he has done

1142
00:42:41,700 --> 00:42:44,100
and is doing continually with the aggression

1143
00:42:44,100 --> 00:42:46,300
hurting somebody that he loves yeah

1144
00:42:46,300 --> 00:42:48,466
so that shame is growing anyway

1145
00:42:48,616 --> 00:42:50,166
so I'm going like well

1146
00:42:50,166 --> 00:42:52,216
can we how do we compare

1147
00:42:52,216 --> 00:42:53,200
that shame

1148
00:42:54,216 --> 00:42:57,933
with the tinge of shame that he might feel

1149
00:42:57,933 --> 00:42:59,666
if I tell grandma

1150
00:43:00,016 --> 00:43:02,500
but grandma comes back lovingly saying

1151
00:43:02,500 --> 00:43:04,216
I know this is hard

1152
00:43:04,216 --> 00:43:08,233
but I'm 100% sure that you can do it yeah

1153
00:43:08,850 --> 00:43:10,416
I heard this happened right

1154
00:43:10,416 --> 00:43:12,166
and I know it's hard to do differently

1155
00:43:12,166 --> 00:43:14,033
but let's make up another plan

1156
00:43:14,250 --> 00:43:17,733
I know it's hard but I know you can do it yeah

1157
00:43:17,733 --> 00:43:20,366
so shame is not a parenting tool

1158
00:43:20,366 --> 00:43:23,933
but maybe there's a way when it happens naturally

1159
00:43:23,933 --> 00:43:28,916
we can we can use it to our advantage

1160
00:43:29,566 --> 00:43:30,733
it's tough it's a

1161
00:43:30,733 --> 00:43:31,800
it's a tough thing

1162
00:43:32,366 --> 00:43:32,850
but I I

1163
00:43:32,850 --> 00:43:35,050
I will say one other thing on that

1164
00:43:35,050 --> 00:43:38,133
which is that there's always attention

1165
00:43:38,133 --> 00:43:42,466
and so anytime anytime I find myself thinking

1166
00:43:42,850 --> 00:43:44,816
a is always the right way to go

1167
00:43:44,816 --> 00:43:46,016
there's almost always a

1168
00:43:46,016 --> 00:43:48,216
B that is diametrically opposed to that

1169
00:43:48,216 --> 00:43:50,633
and the real answer is somewhere between a and B

1170
00:43:51,133 --> 00:43:52,466
and so never I think we get

1171
00:43:52,733 --> 00:43:53,700
go ahead well

1172
00:43:53,700 --> 00:43:55,900
I just say I think we get stuck on sort of like the

1173
00:43:55,900 --> 00:43:59,050
the little details of how we're gonna respond yeah

1174
00:43:59,050 --> 00:44:01,166
and and I think we can just be broader

1175
00:44:01,166 --> 00:44:03,450
like what if we paint it with a broader brush and say

1176
00:44:03,450 --> 00:44:05,833
OK if our child is struggling

1177
00:44:06,250 --> 00:44:08,766
they are they are needing us in some way

1178
00:44:08,766 --> 00:44:11,633
they are needing connection with us right

1179
00:44:11,650 --> 00:44:13,266
um and so

1180
00:44:13,566 --> 00:44:15,700
what's a way that we can offer them connection

1181
00:44:15,700 --> 00:44:17,816
right now and that way might be different than

1182
00:44:17,816 --> 00:44:19,300
it was five minutes ago

1183
00:44:19,300 --> 00:44:21,600
and it might be different than it looks in an hour

1184
00:44:21,933 --> 00:44:23,766
and it might be different than it looks tomorrow

1185
00:44:23,766 --> 00:44:26,100
but yeah we're always asking ourselves

1186
00:44:26,100 --> 00:44:28,633
like I'm always wanting us to be asking ourselves

1187
00:44:28,766 --> 00:44:30,850
how can I help that child

1188
00:44:30,850 --> 00:44:34,033
like in Dan Seagals word how can I help him feel felt

1189
00:44:34,450 --> 00:44:37,216
uh huh feel my love just because your parents well

1190
00:44:37,216 --> 00:44:38,333
I do love him okay

1191
00:44:38,333 --> 00:44:39,616
it's like great

1192
00:44:39,616 --> 00:44:41,050
I love my kids too

1193
00:44:41,050 --> 00:44:43,816
sometimes they feel that and sometimes they don't

1194
00:44:43,816 --> 00:44:46,150
depending on how I'm showing up

1195
00:44:46,450 --> 00:44:48,850
and what state they're in right

1196
00:44:48,850 --> 00:44:52,450
so if we just put connection at the forefront

1197
00:44:52,450 --> 00:44:55,950
I think the details kind of fall into place

1198
00:44:56,900 --> 00:44:59,050
yeah I think that's a beautiful way to

1199
00:44:59,050 --> 00:45:00,966
to cut the knot I

1200
00:45:00,966 --> 00:45:05,250
you mentioned something about a play and I wanted

1201
00:45:05,250 --> 00:45:07,950
I wanted to let you riff on that for a moment

1202
00:45:08,216 --> 00:45:12,833
talk to me about the the need for boys to play

1203
00:45:13,733 --> 00:45:14,416
yeah I mean

1204
00:45:14,416 --> 00:45:17,350
I think human beings in general need to play

1205
00:45:17,733 --> 00:45:21,733
and I think boys often times

1206
00:45:21,733 --> 00:45:26,216
not always but often times play rougher than um

1207
00:45:26,216 --> 00:45:28,433
a lot of people are comfortable with

1208
00:45:28,966 --> 00:45:34,333
and so I think that we have to work on ourselves

1209
00:45:34,333 --> 00:45:36,250
so that we can get a little bit more comfortable

1210
00:45:36,250 --> 00:45:37,700
with that rough and tumble

1211
00:45:37,700 --> 00:45:38,616
kind of play

1212
00:45:38,616 --> 00:45:41,766
if that's something that our boy really thrives on

1213
00:45:41,766 --> 00:45:42,533
and so for example

1214
00:45:42,533 --> 00:45:45,266
like often times I'll have a mom come to me and

1215
00:45:45,450 --> 00:45:46,733
caught two boys and

1216
00:45:46,733 --> 00:45:48,566
and they're going at each other hard

1217
00:45:48,566 --> 00:45:50,100
like they wrestle and they're rolling

1218
00:45:50,100 --> 00:45:52,016
and they're jumping and they're doing all the things

1219
00:45:52,016 --> 00:45:54,533
and often someone will end up getting hurt at the end

1220
00:45:54,533 --> 00:45:56,516
and she's going she's like

1221
00:45:56,566 --> 00:45:58,050
they're killing each other

1222
00:45:58,050 --> 00:46:00,416
they're hurting she's trying to stop them and

1223
00:46:00,416 --> 00:46:01,616
and I would suggest let's

1224
00:46:01,616 --> 00:46:03,666
let's start by asking them like

1225
00:46:04,133 --> 00:46:05,566
do y'all want some help here

1226
00:46:05,566 --> 00:46:07,566
are you doing OK because

1227
00:46:07,566 --> 00:46:09,100
our perception of what's going on

1228
00:46:09,100 --> 00:46:11,950
is often very different from what's going on for them

1229
00:46:12,133 --> 00:46:13,966
and so I just think we wanna be sensitive

1230
00:46:13,966 --> 00:46:14,766
there's no again

1231
00:46:14,766 --> 00:46:17,733
there's no one one thing that's always gonna be true

1232
00:46:17,733 --> 00:46:20,800
every child is different but in general

1233
00:46:20,900 --> 00:46:24,400
rough and tumble play is a great way to connect

1234
00:46:24,466 --> 00:46:26,166
yeah sweating together

1235
00:46:26,166 --> 00:46:27,216
laughing together

1236
00:46:27,216 --> 00:46:29,816
whether you're adults or children or adults at

1237
00:46:29,816 --> 00:46:31,366
with children like it

1238
00:46:31,366 --> 00:46:32,316
it it

1239
00:46:32,650 --> 00:46:36,500
it breeds connection which is what we want right

1240
00:46:36,500 --> 00:46:38,450
we laugh together we feel closer

1241
00:46:38,450 --> 00:46:40,600
we sweat we feel closer

1242
00:46:40,700 --> 00:46:42,016
we we get bonked

1243
00:46:42,016 --> 00:46:44,066
we get to support each other when we're hurt

1244
00:46:44,100 --> 00:46:46,250
it builds connection it builds closeness

1245
00:46:46,250 --> 00:46:50,050
and those are all things that are like the

1246
00:46:50,050 --> 00:46:52,633
the foundation for the sort of

1247
00:46:53,050 --> 00:46:55,400
whole house that we need to build around

1248
00:46:55,550 --> 00:46:56,700
the aggression falling away

1249
00:46:56,700 --> 00:46:57,966
I think that's not a good metaphor

1250
00:46:57,966 --> 00:46:59,666
but essentially like we need

1251
00:46:59,700 --> 00:47:02,333
we need that we need that rough and tumble

1252
00:47:02,333 --> 00:47:03,733
yeah and and

1253
00:47:03,733 --> 00:47:05,616
and often times parents that I work with have to

1254
00:47:05,616 --> 00:47:08,700
work through some discomfort around that

1255
00:47:08,700 --> 00:47:11,933
or they go too hard yeah

1256
00:47:11,933 --> 00:47:13,816
right there are some parents who are just like

1257
00:47:13,816 --> 00:47:15,650
yeah let's get in there and play

1258
00:47:15,650 --> 00:47:17,216
but they're like pummeling the kid

1259
00:47:17,216 --> 00:47:20,000
right with the pillow and he's like wow

1260
00:47:20,133 --> 00:47:21,333
this is too hard yeah

1261
00:47:21,333 --> 00:47:22,616
we need to be aware like

1262
00:47:22,616 --> 00:47:23,450
the idea isn't like

1263
00:47:23,450 --> 00:47:25,216
as the parent that we're gonna like

1264
00:47:25,216 --> 00:47:27,616
you know play the crap out of our kid

1265
00:47:27,616 --> 00:47:28,833
no it's like

1266
00:47:29,100 --> 00:47:32,300
let them win if they're little and if they're bigger

1267
00:47:32,300 --> 00:47:36,050
you still kind of wanna give them a chance

1268
00:47:36,050 --> 00:47:37,250
you gotta play harder right

1269
00:47:37,250 --> 00:47:38,500
cause it's not fun for them

1270
00:47:38,500 --> 00:47:39,650
if you're gonna 10 year old

1271
00:47:39,650 --> 00:47:41,100
and you're playing as if he's three

1272
00:47:41,100 --> 00:47:43,966
it's not fun you have to up the resistance

1273
00:47:43,966 --> 00:47:45,566
but you're gonna play with that to

1274
00:47:45,566 --> 00:47:48,600
to the level where there's laughter happening

1275
00:47:48,616 --> 00:47:50,366
and the last thing I'll just say about this is

1276
00:47:50,366 --> 00:47:52,466
when we have aggression um

1277
00:47:52,966 --> 00:47:54,133
parents often feel like

1278
00:47:54,133 --> 00:47:57,066
if they're playful in their response

1279
00:47:57,416 --> 00:48:00,733
that it's condoning the behavior

1280
00:48:00,733 --> 00:48:02,733
yeah and I just really want to say out loud that

1281
00:48:02,733 --> 00:48:05,300
that is not the case our goal is to connect

1282
00:48:05,300 --> 00:48:07,600
our goal is to help our child

1283
00:48:07,966 --> 00:48:11,250
sense that we see his goodness underneath the behaviors

1284
00:48:11,250 --> 00:48:13,066
and that we're gonna help him through

1285
00:48:13,416 --> 00:48:15,333
and play is a great way to do that

1286
00:48:15,333 --> 00:48:16,933
it's not sending the message okay

1287
00:48:16,933 --> 00:48:19,566
your behavior is okay it's sending the message okay

1288
00:48:19,566 --> 00:48:21,200
I see you're struggling

1289
00:48:21,400 --> 00:48:23,216
I'm not gonna take those behaviors

1290
00:48:23,216 --> 00:48:24,133
seriously

1291
00:48:24,133 --> 00:48:26,416
I'm gonna try to get at you from another angle

1292
00:48:26,416 --> 00:48:30,133
I'm being strategic in my parenting yeah

1293
00:48:30,133 --> 00:48:32,100
you're almost modeling okay look

1294
00:48:32,100 --> 00:48:33,100
this is an appropriate

1295
00:48:33,100 --> 00:48:35,016
way to get the thing that you're after

1296
00:48:35,016 --> 00:48:37,466
over in this inappropriate behavior

1297
00:48:37,700 --> 00:48:39,016
yeah yeah

1298
00:48:39,016 --> 00:48:40,250
I like that a lot

1299
00:48:40,333 --> 00:48:42,100
if there are people out there right now

1300
00:48:42,100 --> 00:48:46,516
who are dealing with aggressive kids

1301
00:48:47,050 --> 00:48:49,100
what should they do if they want help right away

1302
00:48:49,100 --> 00:48:50,066
what should they do

1303
00:48:51,100 --> 00:48:53,733
yeah I have a few ways that I help parents

1304
00:48:53,733 --> 00:48:56,516
so if aggression is the No. 1 issue

1305
00:48:56,733 --> 00:48:59,016
um I have a course called out with aggression

1306
00:48:59,016 --> 00:49:01,100
a step by step practice to stop your voice

1307
00:49:01,100 --> 00:49:03,716
aggressive behavior and lift your parenting confidence

1308
00:49:03,933 --> 00:49:06,166
and I can give you the link to that

1309
00:49:06,166 --> 00:49:09,450
and it's a course that brings you through all the steps

1310
00:49:09,450 --> 00:49:13,566
that I just mentioned but with live support

1311
00:49:13,566 --> 00:49:14,700
so I will be there

1312
00:49:14,700 --> 00:49:17,016
and there's a community of people who will be there

1313
00:49:17,016 --> 00:49:19,133
to answer your questions and to cheer you on

1314
00:49:19,133 --> 00:49:20,916
and all of that so it's not just

1315
00:49:20,950 --> 00:49:21,700
you know here

1316
00:49:21,700 --> 00:49:23,333
go figure it out um

1317
00:49:23,333 --> 00:49:25,300
so if aggression is top of mind

1318
00:49:25,300 --> 00:49:27,766
and that is something that you're ready to commit to

1319
00:49:27,766 --> 00:49:29,766
nipping in the bud and you're ready to start

1320
00:49:29,766 --> 00:49:31,550
that would be the best place to start

1321
00:49:31,650 --> 00:49:32,216
if

1322
00:49:32,216 --> 00:49:35,416
a group experience is something that you've discovered

1323
00:49:35,416 --> 00:49:36,816
doesn't work well for you

1324
00:49:36,816 --> 00:49:38,833
you tend to not show up and you need

1325
00:49:39,000 --> 00:49:40,250
you know the personal trainer

1326
00:49:40,250 --> 00:49:43,116
I do have one on one coaching as well

1327
00:49:43,450 --> 00:49:44,166
that could be

1328
00:49:44,166 --> 00:49:45,333
because you're struggling with aggression

1329
00:49:45,333 --> 00:49:48,533
in your family it could also be for you know anxiety

1330
00:49:48,533 --> 00:49:51,616
it could be for sleep issues or sibling issues

1331
00:49:51,616 --> 00:49:54,616
or whatever I do do one on one coaching

1332
00:49:54,616 --> 00:49:57,500
and then lastly if you feel like

1333
00:49:57,500 --> 00:50:00,450
you know things are a little bit rocky

1334
00:50:00,450 --> 00:50:03,366
not horrible but a little bit rocky or you know

1335
00:50:03,366 --> 00:50:04,216
they're okay

1336
00:50:04,216 --> 00:50:07,050
but you just want to be in a community of parents

1337
00:50:07,050 --> 00:50:10,216
who are committed to parenting their boys peacefully

1338
00:50:10,216 --> 00:50:12,700
and protecting that their boys right to

1339
00:50:12,700 --> 00:50:14,966
to feel and process emotions

1340
00:50:14,966 --> 00:50:17,700
and grow into emotionally intelligent men

1341
00:50:17,700 --> 00:50:19,733
and just want to be in a community of people who are

1342
00:50:19,733 --> 00:50:21,250
actively committed to that

1343
00:50:21,250 --> 00:50:23,233
and thinking about that regularly

1344
00:50:23,300 --> 00:50:24,850
I have um

1345
00:50:24,850 --> 00:50:27,533
a membership community called Parenting Boys Peacefully

1346
00:50:27,533 --> 00:50:30,433
and we would be happy to welcome you into that as well

1347
00:50:30,733 --> 00:50:32,300
I love all of those resources

1348
00:50:32,300 --> 00:50:34,816
and those links are in the show notes

1349
00:50:34,816 --> 00:50:37,450
Tasha thank you so much for taking

1350
00:50:37,450 --> 00:50:38,933
the time to be with us today

1351
00:50:38,933 --> 00:50:41,050
and sharing your wisdom I uh

1352
00:50:41,050 --> 00:50:44,300
it is so much in line with the mission of raising men

1353
00:50:44,300 --> 00:50:47,750
and I can't tell you how much I appreciate it

1354
00:50:47,900 --> 00:50:49,533
I really appreciate the opportunity

1355
00:50:49,533 --> 00:50:50,700
to share my thinking with you

1356
00:50:50,700 --> 00:50:52,650
thank you for trusting me with your audience

1357
00:50:52,650 --> 00:50:53,816
I I don't take it lightly

1358
00:50:53,816 --> 00:50:55,616
so thank you thank you

1359
00:50:55,616 --> 00:50:58,533
Tasha Shore is the founder of Parenting Voice

1360
00:50:58,533 --> 00:51:00,500
Peacefully and the out with

1361
00:51:00,500 --> 00:51:03,416
aggression program and also the author of listen

1362
00:51:03,416 --> 00:51:05,866
5 Simple Tools to meet your Everyday Parenting

1363
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challenges check her out in the show notes and remember

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you are a great parent

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raising men is produced by Phil Hernandez

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this episode was edited by Ralph Tolentino