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Hi everybody and welcome to another episode of the Crucible, Conversations for the
Curious.

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I'm here today with AJ.

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We met on Facebook a couple of months ago and he has got an incredible story.

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But more importantly than that, it's what he's doing now with his life is why we've
connected, why we are chatting because this man has made sense of a lifetime which was a

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struggle and he's come out the other side.

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with some scars like most of us, but he is able to shine and he is making something truly
remarkable.

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So AJ, my friend, thank you so much for turning up today.

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Yeah, thanks Hamish.

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It's great.

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You know, great to have been invited on your podcast and I appreciate what you're doing.

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So yeah, looking forward to this session.

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so AJ, tell me a little bit about your life.

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Let's start right at the beginning from day one.

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Yes, so I was adopted.

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I don't know if you know that, but my father was an alcoholic.

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I was told later my mother had some mental health challenges and they were both amazing
people at the same time, of course.

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He was a sergeant in the military and died when he was 43 in...

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Germany during the Cold War.

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So I never got a chance to meet him.

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But I did meet my mother about five years ago, tracked her down.

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State laws changed and the files became available to the public.

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But, you know, I went into an adopted family, like white middle class up in Washington
state and had three sisters, another adopted sister in that family.

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And

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We had a great life.

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mean, I remember, you know, being taken to the mountains and rivers.

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My dad was a nature lover.

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introduced us to meditation and theater and it was a very arts and culture kind of
upbringing.

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But, you know, they lined us up when we were eight years, when I was eight years old and
sat us on the couch and told us that they were getting a divorce, which was surprised to

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us kids because we had never seen them fight, you know.

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I later realized that I grew up in a household where emotions were suppressed, you know,
from the parental

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perspective and that's been something that I think has made it challenging for me over the
years.

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Just having to sort of relearn how to be in an emotional body in this lifetime.

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There's lots of other parts to that which I'm sure you have insights to as well.

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childhood trauma and childhood neglect in some way.

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But you know, on surface level, I was very fortunate.

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You know, we had all the toys and, know, wonderful Christmases and all that kind of thing.

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But I did miss that family structure when it broke apart at eight years old.

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It was sort of the second wave after being adopted, you know.

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I realized I was adopted at a young age and I was different and wasn't a natural born
child and then the family breaks apart again and it's of this second wound for a child.

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And I went into, I guess, a period probably from like eight until I was 12 where I had
lots of rage episodes and I would like, know.

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break all my BMX trophies from races I had won, know, biking with a baseball bat, you
know, in my room.

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I remember that one day.

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just like, everything, know.

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I would flip the table, you know, kind of stuff, right?

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I didn't know how to, again, process emotions, right?

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So I'd get bottled up and I think all the fear and the stress and the uncertainty of, you
know, being in this family.

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dynamic, you know, and having, you know, whatever things I was preloaded with, you know,
coming from a father who was an alcoholic and a mother with mental health stuff, you know,

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that's just how it showed up.

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And, you know, it wasn't long after that.

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you know, into like 13, 14, 15, where, you know, I was just, I became unbearable, you
know, to both of those parents, you know, I was, stay with my father for a while.

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He would pass me off to my mother because he couldn't handle me.

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She would, you know, deal with me for a while and pass me back to my father.

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I was like a hot potato.

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Nobody wanted, right?

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I was loved, but they just didn't know what to do with me and had limited parenting skills
as many parents do.

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It's completely understandable.

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But I came home at 14 after doing a bunch of stuff I shouldn't have done.

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I threw a big party at the house when my parents were out of town.

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Half the high school came and tore the house to shreds.

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you know, like took the car without a, I didn't have a driver's license.

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And it was just the straw that broke the camel's back.

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And, you know, came back home with all of my stuff packed on the porch in a box, you know,
and that was it.

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The door was locked and it was good luck hit.

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you know, fortunately I had a best friend who, you know, had a foster, his parents, you
know, had foster license.

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And so they took me in to that next family.

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And that next family really became my rock.

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There was just a level of empathy and understanding and sort of cooler heads prevail
mentality that they had.

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And that fact that I was friends with their son was a big deal because I went from having
three sisters to having a brother.

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And I really needed that brother and I really needed those cool heads at that time.

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And they were the Kool-Aid family.

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All the kids in the neighborhood would come over to their house.

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There was always sodas and things to do.

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they were just very, they were the kind of people that walk the talk.

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They don't talk about God or.

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know, spirituality or religion, you know, they just live it, you know, in their actions
and very, very just loving, salt to the earth kind of people.

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That was a great experience for me.

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But that's a snapshot of kind of right up until, you know, my high school days, I guess,
end of high school.

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it's quite traumatic.

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but that must have really made you wonder why it happened and how it happened.

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And I guess it probably triggered some self-worth and really what is life all about?

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So how did you feel when you you moved in with your your best mate and his his parents?

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How did that differential having a brother rather than sisters?

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What difference did that make to your life?

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I mean, it was just a soft landing, you know.

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I was coming from a situation where I had parents that...

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didn't want me anymore, couldn't handle me.

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I think coming into a situation where, hey, we would love to have you, let us set up an
extra bed for you.

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know what I mean?

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We love you.

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Like that was such a from to shift from, you know.

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my mother's boyfriend holding me in a full Nelson while she slapped me or my dad sort of
wrestling me to the ground in the backyard.

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arguing with him, know, kind of thing, you know, and just that those feelings of just
feeling like this is unworkable.

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My life is unworkable.

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I'm unlovable.

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I think coming into a situation that was the opposite of that was life changing.

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So how did that then, so what age were you when you joined the, go.

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So what age were you when you joined your new family and how did that impact your school
life and growing up from there?

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Well, that's a great question.

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I was like 14, 15, and I think it was my freshman year in high school.

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Not only did they take me in, they took in another boy at the time who is my other
brother, Miley.

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so I had two brothers actually, and you know.

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We ran, we were thick as thieves through high school.

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I mean, were three musketeers.

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There was a lot of beer.

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There was a lot of antics and acting out.

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mean.

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We were probably way too handsome.

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That was young as young men and leaned into that way too much.

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And it was just a lot of girls beer and rock and roll through high school.

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We were good guys, but we didn't know any limits when it came to having fun.

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And I think that that was a setup for what was to come.

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But we were fortunate to have.

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Bob and Ruby as our parents and what they provided for us probably saved all of our lives.

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sounds like they were a remarkable pair of people.

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I remember seeing on your Facebook page that you had picture of Ruby and you could just
see that love and compassion, the memories that you guys had from growing up and things.

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I mean, look, I acknowledge all of those who brought me into this world, from my adopted
parents to my biological parents.

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Everyone has given me so much, obviously, But Bob and Ruby, I feel are...

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foundational in the work that I do today, know, that their teachings and their love is
foundational in the work that I do and the way that I view the world and, you know, the

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level of altruism, you know, that I aspire to for sure, you know.

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Yeah.

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So take me forward a few years.

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You're now in high school and unlike all boys, you're young, you're good looking, the beer
flows, and as you said, there's no limits.

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I remember that.

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It's fond.

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It's a fond memory of drinking too much and having fun and occasionally throwing up and
whatever.

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It's seemingly harmless and you're invincible, aren't you, when you're your late teens and
things like that?

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you know, this is a part of our culture, right?

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I think not just in America, but globally, you know, this sort of coming of age, youth
integration with alcohol, with substances, with these things that

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You know, lot of addicts will talk, recovering addicts will talk about, you know, their
belief that alcohol and drugs saved them, you know, at a certain point, and then it was

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what killed them, it began to kill them at a certain point.

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And so, you know, I do think, I do think there is probably some truth in that for me in
those early years in that I was.

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you know, that rage might be someplace to look, right?

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And then, you know, just that those tools that I was missing, you know, in my toolkit to
process, you know, what was happening internally.

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And I think some of it just got suppressed and, you know, pushed underneath.

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you know, it was replaced with, you know, those good times, right?

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And...

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and seeking that euphoria, seeking that belonging, seeking that, you all these things that
we find through this culture of using, know, imbibing, right?

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And we see it everywhere, right?

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It's very prominent in Western culture and, you know, a lot of cultures, but, you know,
the bars are full.

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You know, that's people grind during the week and they go out and they and they drink and
use on the weekends and you know and and You know, it's like there's a cost and an impact

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for that, know that I found in my life personally That didn't work any longer

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and for yourself as well, right?

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And so many blessings have come from my journey into recovery, you know?

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But it got darker before it got better for sure, you know?

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And from the time that I left high school, which I dropped out my senior year, moved to
Hollywood, you know?

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you know...

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I wasn't addressing that big wave that was growing behind me, know, the monster, right?

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That would someday, you know, tackle me and bring me to my knees.

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And, you know, I had dreams and aspirations when I got to Hollywood.

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You know, I got into acting, you know, started writing.

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I did stand up for a while.

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And, you know.

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it continued to progress like our disease does.

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And I found myself, you know, within that first 10 years in my 20s in Los Angeles, you
know, waking up in, you know, motels on Sunset Boulevard, you know, with people I didn't

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know and, you know, like, kiting checks, you know, at the bank, you know, you know, doing

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things that I wouldn't normally do and ending up in places I wouldn't normally end up and
having consequences that were continuing to stack up in intensity and consequence.

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It was like, I think 2000, right around 2000, everything fell out from under me.

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And that was the beginning to becoming homeless.

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I couldn't hang on anymore to this double life, trying to hide my addiction to my
mainstream kind of normie friends.

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And I was trying to show, I sold a screenplay towards the end of that decade and blew all
the money and ended up.

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bitter and resentful and addicted and it just all went down the drain in a very sad way.

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those next three years.

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you know, would really be a defining time, you know, for me on the streets in San
Francisco,

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that's what happens there doesn't it takes a series of events and each one knocks you down
and it gets more and more difficult to climb back up.

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I hear when it comes to the the addiction, it does save people's lives for a while.

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It's a crutch and it stops you breaking because you've got that thing to lean on.

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But as you said, you know, it begins to break.

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It begins to impact your body.

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I think you're asking, was I aware that there was a problem that was not being addressed
before I was forced to address it?

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Exactly that.

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Thinking, it's difficult to think back, but were you aware of, I have got the mother of
all hangovers and it's only Tuesday and I had one on Monday,

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know, like I remember, you know, like, I would go and give blood, donate blood, and they
would pay you for that 40 bucks or something back in the day.

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And then I would take a dollar or two of that and go buy a 7-Eleven hot dog, you know, and
maybe like a candy bar.

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And I would take the other money and I would go buy crack cocaine.

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And it occurred to me that I was literally like selling my internal fluids, my blood for
drugs.

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And it just, I knew I was doing it.

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I couldn't stop doing it, but I was aware of how insane that was, right?

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Like I'm homeless, I'm selling my blood and I'm smoking crack with the money, you know,
I'm barely feeding myself.

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So this is the disease of addiction.

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This is why, why they call it a disease in my opinion is because it's progressive and it
mimics.

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diseases like cancer that are destroying us, literally like taking over our body,
destroying our minds, killing us.

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And there's some driver of that and that is, is still very misunderstood concept of
addiction and alcoholism.

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It's not moral, it's like very good people from moms to teachers to...

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community leaders, veterans, you know, are struggling in this country with this disease,
you know, and it's eating them alive, literally like it was eating me alive at that time

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when I was, you know.

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you mentioned one really crucial thing there and that was moral.

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I lost my moral compass.

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I did not know which, what was right, what was wrong, what was okay and what wasn't.

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and you said you've got those mums, those dads you've got.

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business people, you've got anybody taking drugs, drinking and madness, but they cannot
connect the fact that that is madness because it's just routine, it is just normal.

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And it is really, really tough to be able to join those dots because as you said, your
moral compass has gone awry and it's normalized, you've normalized that chaos and it's

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very

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difficult to appreciate that and then go step back and hey, what's gone wrong?

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Exactly.

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Then I think one of the critical pieces for me and for others that I've talked to was
dealing with this shame piece, you know, and dealing with this guilt piece in the journey

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of healing.

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Right.

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And so for many people, not just addicts and alcoholics, I think, you know, we behave in
certain ways in our lifetime and

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Ultimately, we get to these new vantage points, right?

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And then we are able to turn around and look at, see where we've traveled.

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And for myself, when I was able to get sober and find that new vantage point and turn
around, what I saw was horrifying, right?

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And I had so much judgment of myself and so much shame, and I couldn't forgive myself for
the things that I was pointing to, saying bad person, bad guy, look at you, unlovable,

203
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unworthy, look what you did.

204
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And I think it's incredibly important for we as addicts to continue to work on that piece
and to teach that piece to people who are coming, who are just beginning their journey of

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transformation around drugs and alcohol because...

206
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I have a friend, he spent a large percentage of his life in prison and I asked him, what's
the number one thing for you that you see that has been a blocker for you in your journey?

207
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He said shame.

208
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And went for myself, when the shame piece is there, how does that show up?

209
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Well, it shows up, it keeps me from...

210
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going to coffee with somebody, know, and sitting down and being vulnerable and having a
conversation because I'm just like, I'm ashamed, right?

211
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I'm ashamed.

212
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I don't want to reveal myself.

213
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I don't want to put myself in a position where I might have to reveal myself.

214
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You know, I don't want to raise my hand at that meeting because I'm ashamed of myself.

215
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I feel guilty.

216
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I feel unworthy.

217
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feel...

218
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I feel unlovable, you know, and so it's just a blocker in so many areas that are so
important to transformation that it's almost one of the first pieces I think that should

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be addressed in recovery, you know, or therapy when people are coming off the streets.

220
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There's a lot of stuff that happens out there, you know, that isn't who people are, you
know, but just keep it on homelessness.

221
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It's like...

222
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once you lose everything or you lose enough to end up on the streets, you're in a
traumatic situation.

223
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Boom, day one.

224
00:21:59,098 --> 00:22:06,515
It's like you just stepped into a new dimension of reality where you are forced into
primal living, right?

225
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Primal thinking.

226
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You are forced into your animal instincts, right?

227
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to survive, it is very understandable that you would look for some kind of substance or
some kind of medicine to deal with the spikes of trauma, the spikes of fear, the spikes of

228
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loneliness that are now part of your existence.

229
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And so, if you're not a drug addict, when you get to the streets, you probably are in the
high 90 % range of becoming one very quickly.

230
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And if you do, and as you do, or even if you don't, you're 100 % going to fall into
animalistic sort of primal mindsets from time to time, if not all the time.

231
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And there, it's like, you do what you have to do to survive, period, and anyone would.

232
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Not that people are bad, not that I was bad on the streets, but.

233
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to say that it's understandable, it's excusable even, and it's critical to forgive
ourselves for that, if we are coming from that place.

234
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Because I do.

235
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deeply believe that anyone would fall into that.

236
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And there, I will say some people, it's very rare from my experience, end up on the
streets and they are just gentlemen and they are ladies and they seem unaffected by it

237
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all.

238
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And those people that I have met that are able to...

239
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achieve that, have a very, very strong faith.

240
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They have some kind of relationship to God, or they have some kind of toolkit that they
had before they ended up in that situation that allows them to process through those

241
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intense experiences, right?

242
00:23:55,102 --> 00:24:02,925
But I would say that those are far and few between from all the work that I've done in
doing outreach and being on the streets and being homeless myself.

243
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I would love to see more people who are

244
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navigating homelessness have those tools and that level of faith so that they can more
quickly adapt or get off the streets depending on what they want to do.

245
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But it's rare and we don't teach those things to people who are in those situations.

246
00:24:19,811 --> 00:24:21,641
We don't bring that technology to them.

247
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don't, you know, you know, the Brene Browns and Tony Robbins and workshops and, you know,
men's groups and all that kind of stuff.

248
00:24:30,824 --> 00:24:34,355
It's just generally available or marketed to kind of

249
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middle management executives, mid-level executives that can afford it or poor communities
don't have access to the quality personal transformation, personal growth sector because

250
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it's expensive.

251
00:24:53,945 --> 00:24:57,989
What's the ROI on taking that to the streets and teaching people in shelters?

252
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It's like nobody.

253
00:25:00,947 --> 00:25:02,768
You know, people don't see a return on investment.

254
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I do personally, and that's the work that I'm invested in.

255
00:25:05,231 --> 00:25:18,722
It's like, do I take the things that have helped me and others that I know from 12-Step to
Landmark to Science of Mind to whatever, yoga, meditation, the list goes on.

256
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How do we take that, put it into a triage sort of toolkit and deploy it across the country
and places where people are really suffering and actually probably need it the most,

257
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right?

258
00:25:32,501 --> 00:25:41,019
I'm looking forward to you tell me a little bit more about your outreach and what you're
doing because I know that's a remarkable, a remarkable part of your life.

259
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I want to just, just go back to, as you said, you're on people on the streets.

260
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There's all that shame.

261
00:25:49,897 --> 00:25:55,059
My comprehension of shame is every moment we're living, we are doing the best that we can.

262
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You're on the streets, you're in survival mode, you've got to steal some food.

263
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You're stealing that food to keep yourself alive.

264
00:26:01,871 --> 00:26:06,483
It's not good behavior, but it's understandable, as you said.

265
00:26:07,923 --> 00:26:13,565
And for me, the only way I could mitigate shame was realize that everything I did

266
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wasn't okay, it was protecting me.

267
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I was doing the best I could.

268
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And that probably was the most important way I managed to navigate my way.

269
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out into sobriety and not falling back into drink, not falling back and relapsing because
I realized that yeah, it wasn't good behavior, but I was doing my best, the best that I

270
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could.

271
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And I think you've nailed it there, showing people, giving them that toolkit.

272
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Hey, look, you are doing the best that you can.

273
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Yes, so I'm pretty sure that the most powerful aid that took me out of addiction and into
recovery was understanding that I'm doing the best that I could.

274
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The behavior wasn't okay, but Hamish is a person, he wasn't a bad person, he was in
survival mode.

275
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what I can say is I think that you're absolutely right.

276
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in that.

277
00:27:15,273 --> 00:27:21,609
We need to help people, I believe, and the public, begin to...

278
00:27:21,609 --> 00:27:37,189
find workarounds for this reactive sort of judgmental kind of way that we interpret and
work with behaviors that are unwholesome or...

279
00:27:38,030 --> 00:27:47,998
unproductive or self harming or destructive otherwise that happen when people are in high
stress situations or homelessness or addiction, mental health challenges, things like

280
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this.

281
00:27:51,044 --> 00:27:58,059
Yes, no, first of all, like we, you know, we're promoting bad behavior at all.

282
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But what I'm saying is it's been incredibly powerful for me to have people see me and
acknowledge me despite those mistakes, you know, that I've made.

283
00:28:12,666 --> 00:28:13,026
right?

284
00:28:13,026 --> 00:28:17,468
And those wrongdoings that I have done, right?

285
00:28:17,749 --> 00:28:24,063
I mean, I'm not trying to say that there aren't things that are wrong or bad that I've
done or that other people do.

286
00:28:24,063 --> 00:28:33,648
I'm just saying it's incredibly powerful medicine when someone steps forward and sees
through that and sees the essence of who you are.

287
00:28:33,914 --> 00:28:40,278
and speaks into your possibility as a human being and your beauty and your potential,
right?

288
00:28:40,278 --> 00:28:43,130
Because it can kind of help those things fall away.

289
00:28:43,130 --> 00:28:46,472
And as they fall away, you begin to have less attachment to them.

290
00:28:46,472 --> 00:28:54,828
And as you begin to have less attachment to them, you begin to have a clearing for
healing, which is ultimately what we want is to move people away from these things, right?

291
00:28:54,828 --> 00:29:02,953
And so the judgment mind, the critical mind, the self-loathing mind, it just becomes
very...

292
00:29:04,699 --> 00:29:17,129
dense and unhelpful in terms of like getting to the net net of what we really want, which
is like healing and transformation, you know, and I think for like people on the outside

293
00:29:17,129 --> 00:29:25,996
who just look at, you know, people on the streets and go, they're dirty, they litter,
they, you know, they're doing drugs, know, they're, look, they robbed that CVS store or

294
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whatever.

295
00:29:26,507 --> 00:29:27,517
It's like,

296
00:29:29,702 --> 00:29:36,164
like try and crack below the surface of that a little bit more or a lot more to see that
they're just like you.

297
00:29:36,164 --> 00:29:39,105
It's circumstantial what's happening.

298
00:29:39,105 --> 00:29:48,947
And the rebuild that's really critical if you wanna participate in that as someone looking
in from the outside is to begin to see these people and speak to these people as their

299
00:29:48,947 --> 00:29:54,588
possibility, as their divine essence, as their golden potential, right?

300
00:29:55,049 --> 00:29:56,629
To rise through these things.

301
00:29:56,629 --> 00:29:59,250
Because it's not just critical

302
00:30:01,564 --> 00:30:05,007
For them, it's critical for all of us, I think.

303
00:30:05,007 --> 00:30:15,613
We need to come to a new relationship around the way that we're holding this homeless
situation, the people that have caught up in it, and the process of healing.

304
00:30:15,613 --> 00:30:25,011
And it's gonna begin with kind of leveling the playing field in terms of removing
judgment, removing biases.

305
00:30:25,011 --> 00:30:37,284
Tell me a little bit about the experiences you had on the streets, because when last we
spoke, you gave some detail into places and situations and just that being caught in that

306
00:30:37,284 --> 00:30:42,836
wave where it's almost impossible to get out, because I think that's the scary bit.

307
00:30:42,836 --> 00:30:44,236
You become...

308
00:30:44,372 --> 00:30:47,299
embroiled in somewhere where it just seems hopeless.

309
00:30:49,441 --> 00:31:00,950
there was a guy that came up to me and I was, I it was like maybe like my third year of
being on the streets, you know, I was shot out in and weak and, he used the word

310
00:31:00,950 --> 00:31:05,873
devastated, you know, he took a look at me and he just said, wow, he devastated, you know.

311
00:31:06,003 --> 00:31:16,542
And that always stuck with me because I was, you know, was completely, utterly devastated
by the situation of becoming homeless, you know, through my experience of being coming

312
00:31:16,542 --> 00:31:19,635
homeless and addicted on the streets and.

313
00:31:19,635 --> 00:31:27,971
I don't think that I believe that it was possible for me to ever get out of that situation
or change, know, at that point.

314
00:31:29,353 --> 00:31:42,735
I had no vision, you know, of a future where I would become a nonprofit founder or
community, you know, activist or advocate or whatever, you know, like sober.

315
00:31:42,735 --> 00:31:43,330
you know.

316
00:31:43,330 --> 00:31:51,528
It's a hard life on the streets, you know, not having shelter.

317
00:31:51,528 --> 00:31:54,081
No refuge from the elements, know.

318
00:31:54,081 --> 00:31:58,394
I felt a million miles away from this tender warmth of life.

319
00:31:58,394 --> 00:32:11,432
I remember one time I was just walking all night and eating out of garbage cans in these
kind of nice residential neighborhood, kind of looking into the window and seeing this

320
00:32:11,432 --> 00:32:15,075
family having dinner together and the kids.

321
00:32:15,075 --> 00:32:16,436
What happened to me?

322
00:32:16,436 --> 00:32:18,057
How did I end up here?

323
00:32:18,953 --> 00:32:32,500
And, you know, when you're on the streets, it's true, you are kind of invisible, you know,
you get this feeling that people just don't care or see you, you know, people are wrapped

324
00:32:32,500 --> 00:32:40,404
up in their, you know, nine to five life and, you know, their whatever, you know, dramas
of their lives and.

325
00:32:41,661 --> 00:32:50,581
And once in a while, you know, someone steps out of the crowd, you know, and takes on this
angelic quality and speaks to you and it's really powerful, you know.

326
00:32:50,581 --> 00:32:59,121
And I'll never forget some of those moments when that happened, you know, sort of like
these guideposts, you know, that kept me going.

327
00:33:00,561 --> 00:33:03,741
But I don't know if that answered your question.

328
00:33:05,280 --> 00:33:20,836
I think absolutely, I think you've painted a, you've painted a painting of despair, of, as
you said, of desperation, of no hope.

329
00:33:20,936 --> 00:33:21,756
And...

330
00:33:25,122 --> 00:33:27,962
Yeah, I mean, I cannot comprehend it.

331
00:33:27,962 --> 00:33:30,582
Absolutely cannot begin to.

332
00:33:31,242 --> 00:33:34,552
So how did you, how did you manage to get out of that?

333
00:33:34,552 --> 00:33:39,802
Because as you said, it's almost like going down a funnel where you've got to climb up a
drain pipe that's covered in oil.

334
00:33:39,802 --> 00:33:42,080
How did you get out of that space?

335
00:33:43,473 --> 00:33:53,772
Yeah, well, I mean, first I want to just add to that, you know, there's a spectrum of
experiences that people have, you know, while navigating homelessness, but despair is

336
00:33:53,772 --> 00:33:57,604
certainly common and prevalent.

337
00:33:59,507 --> 00:34:08,214
you know, I had it bad, you know, but like, I've seen so many people that have had it so
much worse, you know.

338
00:34:08,214 --> 00:34:12,077
I mean, little kids literally out there smoking fentanyl.

339
00:34:12,187 --> 00:34:26,128
you know, 13 years old, know, being trafficked, sex trafficked, know, disabled people who
are just, you know, like, mentally, and people with mental health issues who are literally

340
00:34:26,128 --> 00:34:34,734
like just going through this revolving door at the hospitals where they take them in for,
you know, six hours and then just put them back out knowing full well that these people do

341
00:34:34,734 --> 00:34:38,297
not have the capacity to think straight and take care of themselves.

342
00:34:38,765 --> 00:34:52,048
And when I'm doing outreach work sometimes, I'll meet someone like down the alley, around
the corner, behind the dumpster, and they are just, bring tears to your eyes immediately

343
00:34:52,048 --> 00:34:55,993
when you see them, because they are truly devastated.

344
00:34:55,993 --> 00:35:11,813
This speaks to me, this drives me in this work because I am one of those people and
somehow I've been able to be cleaned up and have a life again and I just believe that it's

345
00:35:11,813 --> 00:35:13,533
possible for everyone.

346
00:35:13,893 --> 00:35:22,873
There is one who has all power, that one is God, may you find him now as part of our
literature in AA and 12 Step Recovery and this is.

347
00:35:22,873 --> 00:35:30,733
When I talk about how I got off the streets, the things that have helped me, God is at the
top of the food chain.

348
00:35:30,733 --> 00:35:42,769
It's my relationship with a higher power that I choose to call God, source, universe, my
real sort of...

349
00:35:44,652 --> 00:35:48,064
you know, like universal term is it's just love, right?

350
00:35:48,064 --> 00:35:58,691
It's just, connect to some power of love in this universe that seems to know me and
respond to my prayers and helps me when I pause and kind of lean back into it for it gives

351
00:35:58,691 --> 00:35:59,901
me guidance.

352
00:36:00,622 --> 00:36:10,488
And so I think that's critical, you know, while you're on the streets is to try and find
some relationship with something greater than yourself that loves you.

353
00:36:12,771 --> 00:36:19,443
You know, and definitely, know, like, like recovery is hard work, right?

354
00:36:19,443 --> 00:36:20,933
It's fucking brutal, you know?

355
00:36:20,933 --> 00:36:23,664
It's like, this is the work of like pivoting, right?

356
00:36:23,664 --> 00:36:25,555
And like looking at the beast, right?

357
00:36:25,555 --> 00:36:30,386
Looking at the dragons, at the doors of the cave, which you fear to enter, right?

358
00:36:30,386 --> 00:36:33,907
Which is your self, your hero's journey, right?

359
00:36:34,267 --> 00:36:37,824
And so I'm a finite man.

360
00:36:37,824 --> 00:36:41,559
I realized that I, you know,

361
00:36:41,729 --> 00:36:42,831
I'm not God.

362
00:36:42,831 --> 00:36:56,299
so, you know, leaning on this faith and this process of learning what that can mean for me
in this lifetime is essential.

363
00:36:56,299 --> 00:37:01,539
And I like, know, like I was raised Christian, you know.

364
00:37:01,879 --> 00:37:05,439
You know, I have an LGBT sister who's a minister.

365
00:37:05,439 --> 00:37:10,159
My dad, you know, went from Christian to atheist to Muslim at the end of his life.

366
00:37:10,159 --> 00:37:18,711
You know, I mean, I have so much diversity, you know, in my family alone, you know, so I'm
not, you know, like particular about.

367
00:37:19,559 --> 00:37:20,460
I don't judge.

368
00:37:20,460 --> 00:37:27,642
think we can learn from all faiths, Native American, Buddhist, whether you're Muslim.

369
00:37:29,024 --> 00:37:41,490
I think love is really the medicine in all of those religions and ways that we want to
look at higher powers or something greater.

370
00:37:43,417 --> 00:37:49,001
I think that is really important because love brings in forgiveness.

371
00:37:49,001 --> 00:37:53,864
It brings in new chances, new opportunities.

372
00:37:56,427 --> 00:38:02,111
with that capacity to forgive yourself and learn to love yourself, you you're letting go
of all that stuff.

373
00:38:02,111 --> 00:38:06,624
You're letting go of the past and the concept of a higher power.

374
00:38:07,700 --> 00:38:09,231
I think is really important.

375
00:38:09,231 --> 00:38:12,852
didn't appreciate it in AA because it wasn't my time.

376
00:38:12,952 --> 00:38:19,195
But I found my own sense of spirituality and it's not, please help me, I can't do
anything.

377
00:38:19,195 --> 00:38:24,367
It's just an understanding that you're not alone.

378
00:38:24,367 --> 00:38:29,119
There is something looking out for you and being able to pause as you said.

379
00:38:29,119 --> 00:38:36,422
And you get a sense of ideas and hope and there is hope because...

380
00:38:37,664 --> 00:38:38,795
There is.

381
00:38:38,795 --> 00:38:41,017
You just have to listen for it, look out for it.

382
00:38:41,222 --> 00:38:59,174
So how did you manage to cope with that transition to rebuilding your life and start
basically living a lifestyle as a coping human being, as a thriving human being maybe?

383
00:39:00,419 --> 00:39:02,440
Yeah, that's a great question.

384
00:39:02,460 --> 00:39:18,930
This is what I'm hoping to explore and share in this whole TV series that we're doing, Our
People Rise.

385
00:39:19,150 --> 00:39:26,424
Over the 10, 15 years, from the time I sort of realized I have to change, right?

386
00:39:26,424 --> 00:39:27,595
I'm gonna die.

387
00:39:27,895 --> 00:39:41,063
in the streets like a dog if I don't change to you know sort of like where I would say I
kind of got to a baseline you know that took a good 10-15 years right but it started with

388
00:39:41,133 --> 00:39:49,671
you know, like acceptance or surrender, know, which, which, you know, we talk about, you
know, in recovery, which is like, you know, it's like we're sick and tired of being sick

389
00:39:49,671 --> 00:39:50,462
and tired, right?

390
00:39:50,462 --> 00:39:59,530
And we have to admit to our innermost selves, you know, that we were addicts or that we,
or that it's not working, you know, or that I'm, I'm licked, I'm not going to be able to

391
00:39:59,530 --> 00:40:02,862
do this my own way, do life the way I'm doing it, right?

392
00:40:03,119 --> 00:40:10,459
And so that's like an inflection point that's critical, I think, it was for me and it is
for everybody.

393
00:40:10,459 --> 00:40:15,830
It's like, we don't change until we realize that we have to or need to and we're going to.

394
00:40:15,830 --> 00:40:22,442
But moving forward, I already mentioned like,

395
00:40:22,442 --> 00:40:30,862
establishing some kind of higher power, relationship with a higher power was critical, you
know, and was like for me, it was like, God help me, you know what I mean?

396
00:40:30,862 --> 00:40:34,642
I did throw up my arms and screamed to the heavens, you know.

397
00:40:36,822 --> 00:40:43,646
But I found a 12 step recovery, you know, early on and...

398
00:40:43,856 --> 00:40:56,841
that gave me an opportunity to, you know, get in the middle of the pack, I guess, is, you
know, a way to say it that's that's set in the circles of AA, you know, 12 step.

399
00:40:56,841 --> 00:41:00,433
And that's just like, you know, I can't do it alone, right?

400
00:41:00,433 --> 00:41:09,136
I'm not going to make this journey ahead, you know, without a band of brothers around me
or, you know, a community.

401
00:41:09,136 --> 00:41:13,258
so and so that was critical.

402
00:41:14,762 --> 00:41:22,222
know, recovery and personal growth practices, you know, saved my life.

403
00:41:22,222 --> 00:41:33,662
You know, I was very fortunate to have a friend living in Northern California that I
reconnected with shortly after I got off the streets and sort of got into recovery.

404
00:41:33,662 --> 00:41:37,202
And he was involved in, you know, the Human Potential Movement.

405
00:41:37,202 --> 00:41:40,002
It's very popular in Northern California.

406
00:41:40,002 --> 00:41:42,822
There's a lot of gurus and teachers and...

407
00:41:42,822 --> 00:41:49,665
And he started to feed me these little golden nuggets of teachings.

408
00:41:52,127 --> 00:42:05,104
Started with sort of giving me this template for the hero's journey and helping me to kind
of understand Joseph Campbell's model of how our hero goes in on this journey.

409
00:42:05,104 --> 00:42:12,138
then he was forced to go into the cave and pass the dragons and come out with the
medicine.

410
00:42:12,852 --> 00:42:17,765
this initiation separation or separation initiation and return model kind of.

411
00:42:19,186 --> 00:42:28,552
And beyond that, you I got involved with Landmark Education, which was a wonderful
experience.

412
00:42:29,454 --> 00:42:37,390
And they really helped me to see through my limiting beliefs that I was holding onto that
were keeping me back from growth.

413
00:42:37,390 --> 00:42:47,505
They've got a great diagram, you know, that is, you know, it's like a pie and it says, you
know, this is everything you know, it's a very small piece of the pie next to that small

414
00:42:47,505 --> 00:42:47,746
piece.

415
00:42:47,746 --> 00:42:54,899
This is everything that you know that you don't know in life, you know, and then there's
the massive like 88 % of the pie, which is what you don't know that you don't even know.

416
00:42:54,899 --> 00:42:56,100
Right.

417
00:42:56,100 --> 00:43:02,233
And that was an aha moment for me and landmark when I was like, crap, I don't know shit.

418
00:43:02,834 --> 00:43:06,336
But I'm living my life as though I do and that's creating problems.

419
00:43:06,336 --> 00:43:07,256
Right.

420
00:43:08,004 --> 00:43:15,759
because my future is full of limitations when it should actually be empty, right?

421
00:43:16,086 --> 00:43:23,518
and clear for creating new possibilities for myself and the limitations that are existing
when I look into my future from my past experiences.

422
00:43:23,518 --> 00:43:26,319
So I had to, you know, get help.

423
00:43:26,459 --> 00:43:38,963
Landmark helped me to go back and understand that, you know, a lot of these blockers that
I was dealing with were just made up of stories about events that happened in my life that

424
00:43:38,963 --> 00:43:44,004
I made up at the time with the limited toolkit that I had, right?

425
00:43:45,242 --> 00:43:46,583
had a traumatic experience.

426
00:43:46,583 --> 00:43:52,618
I made up a story that was unlovable because that's what I had in my toolkit.

427
00:43:52,939 --> 00:43:55,481
I was kicked out by my father.

428
00:43:55,481 --> 00:43:59,725
I made up a story he didn't love me, carried that through.

429
00:43:59,725 --> 00:44:06,641
And all of these stories that I made up became drivers inside me, driving my thinking,
driving my behavior, driving my fears.

430
00:44:06,641 --> 00:44:06,992
So...

431
00:44:06,992 --> 00:44:15,432
you know, back to 12 step recovery, know, some of the stuff in the four step inventory
have helped me to understand my fears and get in touch with those.

432
00:44:15,432 --> 00:44:16,612
And, you know, the list goes on and on.

433
00:44:16,612 --> 00:44:18,732
My point is, that,

434
00:44:19,179 --> 00:44:32,138
is that I was lucky, I was fortunate to get exposed to some really powerful technologies
for transforming one's life, right?

435
00:44:32,138 --> 00:44:36,000
Where I think, and I was open and willing to engage with them, right?

436
00:44:36,101 --> 00:44:42,084
But that friendship was foundational and instrumental in the early days.

437
00:44:42,189 --> 00:44:48,163
so I think everybody needs a friend who's got like a toolkit of

438
00:44:48,163 --> 00:44:57,500
really potent medicine to share, you know, and to walk with that person during those
formative years when they're just coming off the streets, they're just coming out of

439
00:44:57,500 --> 00:44:57,930
addiction.

440
00:44:57,930 --> 00:45:07,046
And A, we call it sponsor, know, landmark, it's a course leader, you know, and the hero's
journey, you know, it's the teacher or whatever that comes in.

441
00:45:07,933 --> 00:45:17,213
And so, yeah, know, higher power of some kind, relationship with that, beginning to
cultivate a community and getting in the middle of the pack.

442
00:45:17,323 --> 00:45:21,225
finding a great teacher, know, these have all been things that have really served me well.

443
00:45:21,225 --> 00:45:24,036
And I'll say, I'll just add this and I'll shut up for a second.

444
00:45:24,117 --> 00:45:32,341
But another thing that I was very lucky and fortunate to get involved with at an early
point in.

445
00:45:32,715 --> 00:45:41,872
after getting off the streets and I was traumatized, I had mental health issues, was, you
know, like anxiety, PTSD.

446
00:45:41,993 --> 00:45:46,156
Somehow I wandered into a soup kitchen and asked for a volunteer job.

447
00:45:46,777 --> 00:45:51,280
And they let me, you know, stack chairs and tables and wash dishes.

448
00:45:51,693 --> 00:46:01,735
But I had such a sense of purpose, know, and such a, like, service is such a powerful
medicine that if you can get into service, I believe, as early as possible in your

449
00:46:01,735 --> 00:46:07,152
recovery journey from whatever it is, it's just, you get back so much more than you give,

450
00:46:07,615 --> 00:46:10,495
It is service in any way.

451
00:46:10,495 --> 00:46:16,505
that's, as you said, that helps you feel I've done something, I've made a difference for
somebody.

452
00:46:16,505 --> 00:46:23,936
And that building of a little bit of self-esteem, a little bit of self-respect, it is so
powerful.

453
00:46:23,936 --> 00:46:29,792
Yeah, and little by little, you start trusting yourself and people give you a bit more
responsibility and

454
00:46:30,382 --> 00:46:35,558
It's, yeah, but you've, you've had to surrender.

455
00:46:35,558 --> 00:46:37,290
You've had to say, I can't do this.

456
00:46:37,290 --> 00:46:40,483
You had to put your hand up and say, I need help.

457
00:46:40,523 --> 00:46:42,185
That is the scary bit, isn't it?

458
00:46:42,185 --> 00:46:47,231
That is probably one of the hardest things to do until you've done it.

459
00:46:47,231 --> 00:46:49,934
And then that's the easiest bit.

460
00:46:49,934 --> 00:46:52,476
It's the journey in recovery is.

461
00:46:54,148 --> 00:46:58,128
Is a yo-yo is up and down is scary is frightening and things like that.

462
00:46:58,128 --> 00:46:59,902
I think I love that.

463
00:46:59,902 --> 00:47:03,017
I think that what comes up for me is like.

464
00:47:03,609 --> 00:47:09,252
this sense that I would be devastated or not devastated but destroyed, you know what I
mean?

465
00:47:09,252 --> 00:47:20,717
In some way, like my arms and legs would literally fall from my body and I would be a pile
of nothing on the floor if I got vulnerable, got honest and let people see what was

466
00:47:20,717 --> 00:47:22,508
actually going on inside of me.

467
00:47:22,508 --> 00:47:33,153
was like I had such a story that to sort of turn myself inside out in a group setting or
with a therapist or even with myself in the mirror meant annihilation.

468
00:47:34,077 --> 00:47:35,823
But I think that...

469
00:47:36,023 --> 00:47:44,797
You know this capacity to continue to do that to throw ourselves over the lines that we've
drawn in the sand Where we've said I won't do that.

470
00:47:44,797 --> 00:47:55,802
I can't do that You know what mean in the direction of failing forward towards personal
growth, know, like that spirit, you know is so it's such a great tool, you know, it's a

471
00:47:55,802 --> 00:48:02,455
very simple blunt tool But sometimes you just have to grab yourself by the seat of your
pants on the top of your shirt.

472
00:48:02,455 --> 00:48:06,258
Just say no You know, you're going in to this neck

473
00:48:06,258 --> 00:48:17,245
iteration of yourself and that is going to be a type of annihilation and you have to
embrace that you know because sometimes it's in that busting ourselves apart that we get

474
00:48:17,245 --> 00:48:20,159
the opportunity to put ourselves back together stronger.

475
00:48:21,105 --> 00:48:25,539
And that completely reminds me of the Shamanic Bone Dance that we do.

476
00:48:25,539 --> 00:48:38,086
It's a journey of nothing more complicated than allowing your body to break apart, to
dissolve, to wash away, to break up everything, all that annihilation, all that is gone,

477
00:48:38,086 --> 00:48:41,648
all the old stuff, wash it all away and then get rebuilt.

478
00:48:41,648 --> 00:48:45,510
And it's a really powerful shamanic journey.

479
00:48:45,532 --> 00:48:48,145
I love doing it, it's tremendously healing.

480
00:48:48,145 --> 00:48:50,307
you're daring to be vulnerable.

481
00:48:50,307 --> 00:48:58,674
would hazard a guess, nobody has died from vulnerability, from going, I can't do this
anymore and saying I need help and stepping forwards.

482
00:48:58,674 --> 00:49:07,498
25 years later after that experience on the streets in San Francisco, where I was
completely devastated that I am still dealing with trauma today.

483
00:49:07,498 --> 00:49:10,409
still dealing, I'm still in packing wounds.

484
00:49:10,409 --> 00:49:22,905
I am still, and I thought for sure by now I would have been on easy street, just this
gleaming example of transformation.

485
00:49:22,905 --> 00:49:28,728
But it's like, what got me from there to here isn't gonna get me from here to there.

486
00:49:28,728 --> 00:49:30,409
and there's further to go.

487
00:49:30,409 --> 00:49:32,781
The mountain range continues in this lifetime.

488
00:49:32,781 --> 00:49:36,974
And I'm working on vulnerability issues today too.

489
00:49:36,974 --> 00:49:52,064
I'm working on issues around men right now and realizing that some of the wounds I
experienced in my childhood with my father are still present and with other men in my

490
00:49:52,064 --> 00:49:52,535
life.

491
00:49:52,535 --> 00:49:59,495
I experienced sexual assault when I was homeless on the streets, and I haven't really
unpacked that.

492
00:49:59,495 --> 00:50:02,795
I've done a lot of therapy, but there's more to go.

493
00:50:03,035 --> 00:50:09,495
And I think what happens is, I have a very old habit.

494
00:50:10,071 --> 00:50:16,311
that exists today of like tidying up my room like I did before this interview.

495
00:50:16,651 --> 00:50:27,151
You know, just sweeping the clothes under the bed, just pulling it down just enough so
that you can't see the edges, you know, because I'm a busy guy, right?

496
00:50:27,151 --> 00:50:30,823
I gotta make money, you know, I'm, you know.

497
00:50:30,823 --> 00:50:36,505
shaking and moving, trying to have a successful life, but you know, that habit has to
constantly be checked.

498
00:50:36,505 --> 00:50:44,539
You know, and one of my new prayers is, know, God help me check myself, you know, check,
just check me God, you know, I mean, because, you know, before I wreck myself, you know,

499
00:50:44,539 --> 00:50:49,062
because it's really easy in this world of distractions to just

500
00:50:49,062 --> 00:50:58,202
you know, as much work as we do and as hard as we work, you know, there's no credits, you
know, it's like, it's like each day is really truly a new day, you know, with a new

501
00:50:58,202 --> 00:51:05,482
responsibility to, to, you know, do all of the things that you have to do to maintain your
internal household and your mind.

502
00:51:05,482 --> 00:51:10,962
and, and, know, all of these great lessons and teachings can just fly out the freaking
door in any second.

503
00:51:10,962 --> 00:51:16,122
I can be right back there with a needle in my arm, you know, if I don't be careful, that's
just the truth,

504
00:51:17,510 --> 00:51:18,870
That's the scary bit, isn't it?

505
00:51:18,870 --> 00:51:23,812
we as addicts, ex addicts know that drugs work.

506
00:51:23,812 --> 00:51:25,262
We know that alcohol works.

507
00:51:25,262 --> 00:51:27,783
We know it will just take that edge away.

508
00:51:27,863 --> 00:51:32,844
We also know it is very fucking hard to get back from that state.

509
00:51:32,844 --> 00:51:34,125
And that's the scary bit.

510
00:51:34,125 --> 00:51:40,576
It's very easy to tumble back down to being in that area where I can't cope anymore.

511
00:51:40,576 --> 00:51:41,907
I know what will help.

512
00:51:42,288 --> 00:51:45,769
it's like, what do do when you just like stop giving a shit?

513
00:51:45,769 --> 00:51:46,390
You know what mean?

514
00:51:46,390 --> 00:51:52,431
Like whatever happens in your life occurs and what you're left with is like, I don't care
anymore.

515
00:51:52,431 --> 00:51:57,313
Because if you get to I don't care anymore, none of your tools and teachings are gonna
fricking matter.

516
00:51:57,313 --> 00:52:00,394
Because you're not gonna give a fuck to you're not gonna want to use them.

517
00:52:00,394 --> 00:52:03,535
So that's a very dangerous place for me.

518
00:52:04,713 --> 00:52:17,268
to arrive at, I have to be very careful that I don't get there and keep people in my life
and kids in my life that I love and my family and all of these things.

519
00:52:17,268 --> 00:52:31,614
Purpose is really important, I feel, to stay on track and keep doing the right thing,
something to believe in, in this big crazy world, because there's a lot of chaos going on.

520
00:52:32,607 --> 00:52:35,487
And I like to help people find their purpose.

521
00:52:35,487 --> 00:52:50,067
I feel like the experiences that I've gone through in this last two years of, like I lost
my job at the end of COVID and I really had to do some soul searching and figure out what

522
00:52:50,067 --> 00:52:52,667
I wanted to do to move forward and the dots connected.

523
00:52:52,667 --> 00:52:54,365
I think that that...

524
00:52:54,365 --> 00:53:03,240
you know, for me, I caught on fire, you know, in that moment for this TV series and this
new nonprofit, Art People Rise.

525
00:53:03,320 --> 00:53:13,856
you know, it was all like percolating, you know, over the last 10 years, you know, while I
was doing a lot of work in Silicon Valley and just kind of feeling like I'm not in my

526
00:53:13,856 --> 00:53:17,988
purpose, you know, like I was trying to be, you know, making an impact.

527
00:53:17,988 --> 00:53:22,451
I was learning a lot about innovation and these really important things that I'm using
now.

528
00:53:22,717 --> 00:53:26,228
for developing this new company and this new nonprofit.

529
00:53:26,228 --> 00:53:41,996
When you connect, when the dots connect, and dots for me are like, what is the one thing
that you have to do, that you would have to do if, in your life, if you only have a year

530
00:53:41,996 --> 00:53:43,448
left to live, you know what I mean?

531
00:53:43,448 --> 00:53:46,050
Like what would be the most important thing for you?

532
00:53:46,974 --> 00:53:57,377
And for me, it was like making a contribution to society, paying it forward, giving it
back with everything, 100%, full core press, standing next to my higher power side, just

533
00:53:57,377 --> 00:54:04,179
saying, let me run the ball, throw me a pass, scoring touchdowns for humanity, right?

534
00:54:04,179 --> 00:54:12,732
And then I think the second thing was like really getting an understanding of what my
skill sets are and what I love to do, right?

535
00:54:12,732 --> 00:54:15,980
And then I think the third was, you know, just.

536
00:54:15,980 --> 00:54:25,424
just looking at my resources and what I had around me that I could pull together to make
it happen.

537
00:54:27,345 --> 00:54:32,527
But when the dots connect for people, I just think that there's this ignition that
happens.

538
00:54:32,527 --> 00:54:37,919
It's like something comes alive and something takes the wheel and it can't be stopped.

539
00:54:37,919 --> 00:54:43,771
It is an invigorating infectious, it is an invigorating.

540
00:54:44,969 --> 00:54:48,994
energy that has so much power, can just blow through walls,

541
00:54:51,662 --> 00:55:02,460
tell me about your inspiration for Our People Rise, what your vision is, what your dream
is and tell me how it's actually coming together.

542
00:55:04,254 --> 00:55:11,234
So, Our People Rise is a concept for a TV series that we are making.

543
00:55:11,554 --> 00:55:15,714
It's stories of human resilience.

544
00:55:15,714 --> 00:55:25,834
We're asking the question, what is it in our human DNA that allows us to rise up in the
face of hardship, struggles like homelessness, addiction, and mental health?

545
00:55:25,834 --> 00:55:33,480
I'm the host and traveling across the country interviewing Americans and asking them these
questions.

546
00:55:35,602 --> 00:55:46,390
The inspiration for this was my desire to create a series that I could take into prisons
and shelters, treatment centers.

547
00:55:46,622 --> 00:56:03,859
hospitals, colleges, and speak with panels of people who have managed to get to the other
side of the minefield in these sort of pillar issues and have desire that together we can

548
00:56:03,859 --> 00:56:06,710
share the tools that we use to help us get there,

549
00:56:07,048 --> 00:56:14,782
with people who are really needing the inspiration to believe and to hear these tools and
have some access to them.

550
00:56:14,782 --> 00:56:16,432
so that's really it.

551
00:56:16,432 --> 00:56:25,047
Like, look, planning to like air on Netflix or Hulu or Amazon or whatever, great, love it.

552
00:56:25,047 --> 00:56:32,590
But that's the foundation of the project is it's a service project with the intention of
like.

553
00:56:33,258 --> 00:56:39,658
taking these messages to the hardest hit places in the country and providing inspiration
and hope for people.

554
00:56:39,658 --> 00:56:54,518
And then aside from the series is the nonprofit, Our People Rise, and that will be sort of
the legacy foundation that is focused on teaching core tools for transformation to

555
00:56:54,518 --> 00:56:58,918
impacted communities in the area of homelessness, mental health, and addiction.

556
00:56:58,918 --> 00:57:03,154
And these tools, I mentioned a few, but you know.

557
00:57:03,154 --> 00:57:16,915
It'll be an ongoing combined effort of a core mastermind and a community and an alliance
of organizations that are all working together to really understand what the blockers and

558
00:57:16,915 --> 00:57:27,812
pain points are for people who are just beginning to rise up from these devastating
situations so that we can solve for those problems with the latest and greatest technology

559
00:57:27,812 --> 00:57:29,062
that's out there.

560
00:57:30,576 --> 00:57:43,304
being developed by some of greatest minds on the planet to really help people hack their
minds, get into the mechanics of what change looks like and be able to get more traction

561
00:57:43,304 --> 00:57:48,166
so that we see these success rates in these programs across the country going up.

562
00:57:48,967 --> 00:57:54,001
And so my personal perspective is and experience is that...

563
00:57:54,001 --> 00:58:01,291
If we look at the adventurer, like a diagram, and the adventurer is going on this
adventure across the mountain range, right?

564
00:58:01,291 --> 00:58:04,824
Like what is the walking stick?

565
00:58:04,824 --> 00:58:06,926
What are the binoculars?

566
00:58:06,926 --> 00:58:13,662
What are the tools that the adventurer has that are gonna help them to navigate the
terrain ahead, right?

567
00:58:13,662 --> 00:58:28,914
Because even as we offer these programs like 12-step recovery or healing from trauma or
housing programs, addiction programs, that the governments are laying out for people.

568
00:58:30,431 --> 00:58:41,337
I feel like if you don't have the toolkit to navigate through those programs and those
offerings, you're gonna get turned around and you're gonna go back out to what you know

569
00:58:41,798 --> 00:58:44,539
and potentially use or die, right?

570
00:58:45,440 --> 00:58:56,066
And because I was given some of these tools from my friend and from some of these programs
early on, I was better able to navigate through some of these.

571
00:58:56,855 --> 00:59:09,675
programs and you know from someone who is seriously sick and able to be successful and so
the goal of the series is just to arm people with better tool kits to succeed along this

572
00:59:09,675 --> 00:59:22,395
you know very difficult and challenging journey of recovery from you know from these
things and I'm extremely passionate about you know just the outliers you know the people

573
00:59:22,395 --> 00:59:25,475
that you know society has given up on.

574
00:59:27,368 --> 00:59:45,314
and going after that demographic and loving them like my foster parents loved me and
really delivering them the quality of education and information that they deserve.

575
00:59:45,314 --> 00:59:52,230
The days of going into a hospital after overdosing and some social worker handing you
three pieces of...

576
00:59:53,055 --> 00:59:59,699
wrinkled paper that are stapled together and saying good luck, call these numbers and
nobody answering or need to be over, you know.

577
01:00:00,780 --> 01:00:03,042
It's not acceptable, you know.

578
01:00:04,403 --> 01:00:14,970
When I see people on the streets, I see future nonprofit leaders, I see, you know, future
teachers, know, parents, you know, taking the head of their families again, you know,

579
01:00:14,970 --> 01:00:16,051
resuming their.

580
01:00:17,816 --> 01:00:19,277
I've got goosebumps.

581
01:00:19,277 --> 01:00:21,728
think You're empowering people.

582
01:00:21,748 --> 01:00:24,850
As you said, that piece of paper is giving them a fish.

583
01:00:24,850 --> 01:00:26,110
You're teaching them to fish.

584
01:00:26,110 --> 01:00:35,374
You're giving people hope and opportunity and that can only come from everything that you
have done.

585
01:00:35,814 --> 01:00:38,455
As you were talking then, I was joining the dots.

586
01:00:38,776 --> 01:00:40,244
AJ experienced

587
01:00:40,244 --> 01:00:48,172
all sorts of stuff growing up, went into Hollywood, he can write a script, he knows how to
make a movie, he knows how to tell a story.

588
01:00:48,232 --> 01:00:50,544
You then tumbled back down again to learn a bit more.

589
01:00:50,544 --> 01:00:52,897
You've done all the technology, so you know all of this.

590
01:00:52,897 --> 01:01:02,797
Everything you have been through in your life has said, right, now you have all the tools
you need to do exactly what your vision and your purpose is.

591
01:01:02,797 --> 01:01:04,178
And I think that...

592
01:01:06,096 --> 01:01:07,776
That's what makes this so special.

593
01:01:07,776 --> 01:01:12,528
That's your guarantee this is gonna work because you've lived every single bit of it.

594
01:01:12,528 --> 01:01:14,999
You've got all the tools you need to make this.

595
01:01:14,999 --> 01:01:18,056
It's empowering people and it's bringing hope and that is magical.

596
01:01:18,056 --> 01:01:20,340
Really, really magical.

597
01:01:21,194 --> 01:01:22,255
Thank you.

598
01:01:22,255 --> 01:01:26,049
I feel like we are doing it.

599
01:01:26,049 --> 01:01:27,750
You're a part of my journey.

600
01:01:27,750 --> 01:01:30,672
I'm a part of yours in this moment.

601
01:01:30,684 --> 01:01:40,562
I think that there are a lot of people, kids, young people, older people who really want
to see change on this planet.

602
01:01:40,562 --> 01:01:42,884
And I think that we...

603
01:01:42,976 --> 01:01:50,726
have more tools at our disposal today through information sharing channels to educate each
other.

604
01:01:50,726 --> 01:02:07,036
And I do see trends of, you know, young people, especially who are leaning into, you know,
I don't know, higher consciousness or just, you know, wellness, you know, education.

605
01:02:07,036 --> 01:02:10,252
And I think that's really inspiring to me.

606
01:02:10,549 --> 01:02:15,113
AJ, I know what you're doing is absolutely wonderful and I'm gonna support you the best I
can.

607
01:02:15,113 --> 01:02:21,028
Where can all my listeners find out more about Our People Rise, your story and what you're
doing?

608
01:02:22,125 --> 01:02:23,748
Yeah, ourpeoplerise.com.

609
01:02:23,748 --> 01:02:33,257
You know, we are expressly interested in working with anybody who really cares about the
homeless situation, mental health and addiction in America and abroad.

610
01:02:33,458 --> 01:02:38,703
And yeah, I would love to talk to anyone who wants to support that

611
01:02:39,253 --> 01:02:40,764
And then one last question.

612
01:02:40,764 --> 01:02:42,715
What is your superpower?

613
01:02:44,586 --> 01:02:49,830
You asked me this last time, my superpower, think I'm gonna say God.

614
01:02:51,212 --> 01:03:05,984
know, just like the willingness to like pray and listen and then try and act on that
guidance is really, you know, I think the greatest superpower that I've been humbled and

615
01:03:06,466 --> 01:03:14,351
you know, a God of my own understanding, which, which, you know, is loving and more
spiritual than religious for sure.

616
01:03:15,987 --> 01:03:16,427
Brilliant.

617
01:03:16,427 --> 01:03:18,594
and exists in all of us.

618
01:03:20,435 --> 01:03:21,650
that's the important bit.

619
01:03:21,650 --> 01:03:22,972
Is she ringing you?

620
01:03:23,201 --> 01:03:25,022
That's, that's God calling.

621
01:03:26,285 --> 01:03:27,906
I'm to take this.

622
01:03:28,868 --> 01:03:32,251
No, I'm late for a meeting, but I thank you so much.

623
01:03:32,251 --> 01:03:33,572
I love you, brother.

624
01:03:34,426 --> 01:03:35,008
I love you too.

625
01:03:35,008 --> 01:03:39,003
Thank you ever so much for being on the show, taking the time and all the best.

626
01:03:39,003 --> 01:03:40,345
will stay in touch.