This is the talk show created by Platforce
to connect professionals from the pharmaceutical industry
biotech, life science, and beauty
from all around the globe.
My name is Juliana Kreisel
and I'm so pleased to have you all here
in this episode
we will discuss the difference in the modus operandi
of corporations versus startups in Biotech,
Life Science, Beauty and the Pharma industry
We will chat
about how the market is tailoring their strategies
from brand awareness and client acquisition
to choosing the right CRM
and effectively approaching the HPCs
for this different types of corporation or companies
and as we're going to touch a lot of
a lot of different topics
we invite you
our attendees to write your questions down on the chat
so we can direct them to our specialist
and they will answer them for you
I will love to introduce
I introduce my co host for today
Mr Stefan Repin. Hi, Stefan.
He is the head of marketing here at Platforce.
We hope to bring
to feature today the discussion to our audience
and we and we inform you to make this uh
and we invite you to uh
this webinar
and to every single other that we will
be planning for the rest of the year.
So without any further delay
let me invite our first speaker for today
Doctor Yvette
Hi, Yvette, how are you doing today?
Hi, guys, I'm doing fine
Thanks for having me.
I'm really excited being here
W are so happy to have you with us.
We would love for you to give us
a little bit of introductions about yourself
Yeah sure. So I'm by chemistry expert
and had a chance to
get into full on pharmaceutical environment
regulated environment
and have been working for some big corporate companies
including Roche
and had a chance to work on wonderful projects
for different
you know
applications for medicines and such
and then afterwards moved on into startup companies
supporting startup
small companies
trying to make their way into the big pharmaceutical
biotech world
yeah and on that way
on that go, you know,
had nice stumbles
had nice success
bit of both
and I think just the combination of that
also kind of got me to meet you guys
and this is why I'm here
to kind of share lessons learned
and see what one can learn from each other.
Nice! We're so happy to have you here
so, as we said before,
this webinars give us the opportunity to network
and meet everyone from all around the globe
so thank you
thank you for taking the time
and then I would like to introduce
our second speaker for today
Martijn
How are you doing?
Hello folks
Good. Good to see you again
after a lot of preparations yes
Greetings from the Netherlands
It's finally good weather so I'm happy
Nice nice. Happy to hear that, Martijn
Do you want to introduce a little bit about yourself?
So our audience gets to know you
Of course of course yeah
My name is Martijn van den corput
I'm one of the co founders and CEO of OptInsight
I would say that we are the
the top leader in pharma and life senses regards
consent management with our services and solutions
a little bit of my background
and that was also the reason that I was attracted to
to be part of the panel is that
yeah I think I've now a working experience from
over 20 years and I worked for
large corporates in the beginning of my career
with all the
struggles and also was
part of building up
scale up company in the Netherlands in
professional services
where we have to
create a brand
from first day again after being part of IBM
so that was a yeah
that was a huge challenge
and after that I also
was part of some boutique companies
small niche companies in in
in payments
also was a part of the leadership team at CapGemini
and then five years ago
I decided to start my
own company from scratch with my partners
so I think
that uh yeah
I can
talk a lot about
our experience in small and big companies
and not only about pharma
so feel free also to ask your questions
that are not about pharma because
I think we both have a lot of experience
also out of pharma
so be our guest
the coming hours
coming hour
sorry not "hours" but "hour".
Yeah definitely
Please everyone who's watching this
we always invite you to ask your questions and our
specialist will
answer them or do the best to respond
uh we also invite you to share your anecdotes
stories or anything that you want
may want to
share with us today.
So I will start with the conversation saying
let's tackle the big
I will say it's the big question that got us all here:
What is the difference
and is there a difference
between the big corporations and the startups?
How and what do you think about it?
who wants to tackle it first?
Yvette, are you up for it?
yeah sure I can go first
yeah thanks
So I think there's different angles one can look at
and just in trying to summarize
or like kind of getting on point for this webinar
so there's different points of views
I come from a very quality based focus
but we do also have like the sales marketing focus
right? so I think in regards to this
I can give a
a bit of insights as of the regulated
as of the quality management
because yes
you do have to have customer relation management
specifically pharma and medical device
you do have to have a health care representative
but sometimes they don't go digital
they kind of stuck in their old ways
and this is no difference between corporate and startup
but the start up is a bit more extra
flexible and faster and willing to adjust
so they see the support in these
now digital customer relation management systems
um and I have been working in big and small
with and without digital customer relation management
um so it was either person driven or digital driven
and I can clearly say that um
there is to some regards difference in big corporate
and startup
they do have money
the big corporates
the startups don't
although the startup are actually more willing to try
so this is kind of a catch 22
that was an experience I've made yeah
I fully recognised it
Yeah. Martijn.
I fully recognize what Yvette says also because
my current company has also gone to that stages but
but what I really want to pronounce is
and to add on what Yvette says is that
what is a really
big difference for me
if I look back to the last 20 years is
if you work for corporates
you have the
the convenience of having a brand
a really established brand
and what you often see is that uh
people buy from big companies because of the brand
brand but also because of the
yeah security
and if you start
a new company or almost new company
you have to build a brand
so you really have to be keen
on all, okay,
what value are I'm going to bring to the market
and how does it
distinguish from the established brands
and that's...
that's
that lasts a lot of
years to establish
and also costs a lot of money
but for me
personally it was all
always in my whole career
it was a challenge
but also I loved it
but it's really tough to do it
because processes you can have in place
you can have systems in place
but at the end
is what are you
what is your brand to the market
and I would say be
be very keen on that
because don't underestimate what a brand can
make or break.
I love it.
I love the concept about the brand
and the importance and difference and how the
the trust
that people put on the big corporate
but leave the
small or the startups behind
I will say we had the discussion
a similar discussion
I think with you, Yvette,
when we met long ago
about if that's actually a fact
and I would love to get your insights about that
Yeah, sure, so actually
when I met Stefan
that's over a year by now
we actually
we actually had
had a similar
had a similar um
start back then
talking about sales and I said
you know what
sales marketing
this is a very common topic for
any product
one has in their daily life
if it comes to
very highly regulated companies
taking pharmaceutical companies
marketing is like a grey zone
there is even law
specifically in Germany
which does or does not allow certain kind of marketing
false advertisement
and stuff like that
So, actually
working for big corporate like Roche
I wasn't even aware of marketing
there were no marketing
there's not
not the typical marketing you would know of
there's no flyers
"Hey try our new anti-cancer drug"
you know? This is...
This is nothing that I actually kinda got to see
and yes there is something like sales
but it's not a typical sales representative.
It is more a medical trained person
who goes to doctors
as one of the targets
and explains
what the new drug is
what it's about
what it can do for a patient.
So it's not about "selling"
It's not about "marketing" it.
It's about
also as much we mentioned
it's more about an awareness
so you can speak more of a brand awareness
so when I got through the smaller companies
the start-ups
that was the first time that I actually saw
that that might be a big issue
a big problem
for these small companies.
It's not about yet selling
because when you're start up
you're most likely still in
in the research
you're in the
pre clinical
you might be in the clinical already
but you're not on a market yet
but you already have an issue
by finding possible providers
that are like:
"We don't know you"
"You're too small"
"You might run out of money"
so they don't make
business with you
so I recognize that me
ignoring sales
marketing was kind of a
a break or make
you know as we mentioned before
full awareness is needed of that
because a brand
is marketing
a brand is sale now.
So that was a
lesson learned.
And, Juliana,
we had this not fun
but kind of funny discussion
where we brought up this Netflix series.
Yes, I love that.
So that was before the regulation on
marketing
actually came into place
so not-trained medical staff
went and told
the doctors
"Oh take this drug"
"Your patient has a broken leg"
or you know
"He has back pain, just give that to them"
"It's awesome"
and it cost
one of the biggest
opioid crisis that is
still ongoing
with one of
the highest
death rates
due to a product
that was actually implemented
and meant to do something good
so this is kind of where I also
learned to see that
um there's always a circle
and you always have to have a good look at
where in the
process you're at
and do not ignore
what might
you might not need it yet
but you might
not need it later
and ignoring that
will not last in a long run.
Yes.
I recall our
conversation and
how it was important
like we said
we discussed
the regulations
and things like that
and how in that show
we're not going to say
it in that show uh
the regulations
were not really there
like they had
huge parties
and things like that
and how that made an impact
nowadays
because you
now need to
ensure that everything that
you provide
and in the way that
you provide
the marketing
that you do
as you said
goes according to those
rules that are set
after this huge implosion
let's say in the US.
What do you...?
Do you have
any inputs, Martijn?
I would love to know
About what you said,
if you go to
the sales process
I think at the end
of course
both companies had the
the big ones
and smaller ones
have to be keen on
uh how they
can support their clients in doing things better um
and in the case of HCP
I would always ask:
How can I make
your work better
and not only from a medicine perspective
but also from an administrative perspective?
Or whatever.
But that also is
the same in
if you sell professional services
in a small company
you have also have to
always have to be
keen on
building trust
and that's that's
by showing genuine
interest in
the person and also
based on that
bring value to the
person so I think
a brand is of course
very important
but in the end
always people always want to
see value
in what you bring
and I think that's always
a little bit same.
It's not that,
for example,
IBM sells everything very smooth because they are IBM.
At the end clients wants to see value.
And so there are
that's also a parallel between
the big ones and the smaller ones
in my opinion of my experiences.
Yeah I think that's definitely the case.
We had an hour long talk with you.
We discussed about the importance of value
and not just giving
because the
the selling part is not...
No one's going to buy if you call them and say like
"Hey buy this" and
"Hey, take this"
You need to give the value to
whoever is going to receive that
and I definitely agree with that.
Other thing that Yvette said. I'm sorry.
Do you want to add something else to this?
No, the only thing is to
of course that's
that's you as a
as a corporate
you have a longer time for sale cycles
Yes.
What you see in smaller companies is that it's quite tight
the bridges and
and the sale cycles because
you have to pay the people
you have to pay the organizations
and so the urgency to build value as a small company
always say you see that on the eagerness
of the people in the smaller companies because
they are very willing to help you
because they know that they can sell them
and a big group as you can see
people are yeah
I also worked for corporates to tell you a little bit
behind and think okay
maybe next year or something
but that's that's
that's not that's possible on a on a big boat
but not on a speedboat
so you have to act
and that's that's um
but but but
but before we we
we go further
Are there already some questions?
Because we want some interaction, of course.
We want to know about you
who's watching us
Do you have any comments or any experience?
Or do you have any questions?
Again please do not hesitate to
We do have a question.
I'm asking to vote for a question so, question A
How do we...
How do start-ups and corporations differ in pharma
and like other industries?
What are the main differences?
And the other one is about the acquisition
like client acquisition in startups and what is the
how does it work in corporations? Again in pharma
Since there nobody... Since our audience is...
I don't know. Audience, wake up!
Maybe having a meal now because it's 6:00 pm.
Come on! and coffee.
Let's ask. Which one would you like to tackle?
Question A or question B?
Yes and regarding that question that you said Stef
I think the first one was.
We discussed and
Martijn also brought it up
how the startups need to be more aggressive
let's say between
in comparison with the big corporate
my question will be
and you Yvette also brought it in your introduction
you said that um
the startups are more flexible and more eager
to transform and adopt these technological
tools that we have right now
more than the big corporate.
Can you specify or give us some examples?
Or maybe
can we go more into that?
Because I think that's very interesting
in terms of right now we're in a very digital era
where everything is on the computer, the cloud
Can you specify or give us some examples?
Can we go more into that?
Oh that's very weird
Oh yes I'm sorry
I'm sorry for that.
So that.
Can we go to that?
Please.
Yeah sure, Juliana.
So my experience on that, I have actually two
two examples
they're actually also independent on pharma or
not pharma.
It's about you know
being a start up that actually
um had a base of service which was on the market
it was running
so you are up and running
on the market and then you develop something new
Stefan? yes?
well we do have something new. In fact.
We have a comment from the audience.
oooh yeah
oh very spicy
The comment is from Mr
Mujahed Khan Pathan
the question is:
How are AI machine learning
being incorporated into regulatory intelligence
databases to improve predictive compliance?
And let's see how can be that proved in
corporations and starters, okay?
mmm so actually
since this AI is a hot topic latest beginning last year
so I think latest since and uh
beginning of last year
everybody's aware of that
I have experienced myself that
that company I was with that time
smaller company
not start up level anymore
but small company being very edgy and flexible
they actually decided okay
"this is going to be something"
and actually every department was told
"here's access"
"we created access for you"
"you get the paid version"
"go ahead and play around"
get to use how it works and see what you could do
that would help you on your daily basis um
they let you go for
for a few weeks
and then in
in accordance with you
they did sit down and said what
what could that offer for your department
and I'm literally talking sales department
marketing also quality department um
product owner
so different departments
and of course
for some it's easier. Marketing content
it's quite easy
if you go to
I'd like to have an upgrade on a quality
assurance agreement on quality side
which these AI tools are also possible to do
so you still do have to have
as per regulation for eye principle
I know that there's companies that start to do
computer system validations on AI generated content
so I think there is some stuff that already
can be done using AI
I think replacing the final control by humans
specifically for regulated environment
like quality management
speaking pharma
biotech medical device
even a beauty company that is 9001 certified
or has a product that goes on or in your body
supplements
their FDA regulated
so all of these will still do have the same challenges
um so there's some companies
who already have AI implemented tools
yes, but I think the way for fully automated
no human needs to check and give a final approval
I think we're still away from that yeah
In our last webinar, Stef,
I think you remember
I think I hope you remember haha
we discuss the AI implementation and how everything can
uh we can improve
but at the same time
at the end of the day
we still need a human being
to be able to approve or not what it's uh
provided by the by the AI again
we have to remember that it's a tool.
I will love to hear.
I don't remember who said it exactly
but one of the guests actually mentioned that like
the result of your machine learning or AI
is as good as the data that you give it
if you didn't add data
then well you're not
you're not gonna be happy about the input
right?
One of the things that
for example
here at Platforce
we're very careful about compliance and using AI
being compliant using AI because
as far as I know in
in western uh
Western Europe the US
um AI is a very hot topic and compliance is very
very very big topic
that's why
haha by the way
ChatGPT is wrong 58% yes
Yeah.
That's what
that's what we see.
So basically it takes a lot
a lot of effort on our side on building the product
but I think performer companies well
to be compliant with AI
but at the same time
sort of like try to use AI to gain some benefits
gain an edge
Martijn, do you have an input here?
I hear all what you say and I agree with that
but I have also other angle and
and what I see now from AI
but I'm not an expert on it
its main goal now is to be efficient in
in bringing data together and
and make content from it or
make an article of it.
It could be efficient.
But if I go to the commercial perspective
I think we have to be keen all before we use this
both as a startup or corporate company,
do we use it in a way that it's still
visible for our clients or HCPs that it's from us?
Because my fear is a little bit
that we are going to create a lot of generic stuff
because we use the data which is available
but we can use it
but also buyer can use it
and the chance that it will be
will generate the same content...
So my point is
be keen on using it because what I already said
if you want to make a brand
to build a brand or keep a brand
you have to be keen on the specifics of your company.
What message do you want to bring?
What are the values that you have as a company?
So for me it's efficient, efficiency too.
But be keen on that
you keep distinction from your competitors.
How you use it, because otherwise it's all the same.
Yes, yes, I agree on that like we need to...
Maybe somebody just doesn't agree with that.
so, just my opinion.
Please let us know.
I have a comment
okay I have a comment
I would say yes
There is this market
I'm following Tim Davidson.
He has a TikTok channel.
He says: "Okay,
let's test today: is it B2B or ChatGPT?" haha
and you get crazy titles
A tool that helps other tools improve AI
Is it ChatGPT or
is B2B?
It's actual B2B!
You wouldn't think that people come up with
you know
with things which are like so
so so much the same so again
If you give... If you're...
if you're using the same settings
the same input you're giving to
to your AI that everyone
you're gonna get the same results, you know?
There's no point in using AI if you're
if you don't expect to be
you know, creative
So you gotta
you know disclose
disclose some information
in-house AI
that's at least what we are doing.
We're getting it
we're using it for our inside
inside work
and at some point
you can also answer the question here from
our listener.
Well, of course,
you can use some regulatory
information that is quite strict
you can use it for
for building
you know the database for your inside
uh inside company AI
and that is possible
a few cases of doing that.
I would love to hear, sorry.
I would love to hear, Yvette, about your anecdote
about the creative data
for gathering information with AI
Please.
So that's
that was actually a kind
of a sub project we started in my last position
where we were supporting
on an online platform
a web-based app,
for supplier qualification
for pharma and life science companies
and one of the topic that popped up over and over again
over the past year
was pharma vigilance.
So vigilance is
anything you need for any of the companies
beauty,
supplements,
food, all the way up to pharmaceutical
So vigilance is a hot topic
and pharmaceutical vigilance
specific here for the pharmaceutical
but the base is the same
and when
when this whole AI topic got really hot
we actually sit down with our IT team
last year and said:
Well, let's go
and see if we can use all of the common
vigilance systems
so there's vigilance systems available,
open to public,
they have to be by law.
And we use ChatGPT
and other AI tools to filter and sort and gather
so I'd like to say
for data sorting
or data gathering
so anything that is in the World Wide Web
till January 22 is in ChatGPT.
If you wanted to create something new out of it
you have to be very careful
but for gathering and data collection
I do have to say it worked very nicely
so we did an in-house
validation
by having experts,
external pharmaco vigilant experts,
internal quality manager,
by checking on the data
that was created by this
and it was actually released as a prototype
for some of our test customers.
So that. So it can actually work.
And with easy tricks.
You can also make it validated
but you have to be very careful in your user
specification
what the product actually does or does not.
And as long as you're careful with that
and don't overdo it
you can actually
have a very
very useful
addition
to your daily work.
I am honestly not aware yet of, full on AI
in a sense of
let's say vigilance reporting for pharmaceutical
or quality management systems
so I think we are still steps away from that not
not because AI might not be capable
but again due to the fact that
you do have to have a four eye principle
so you have to have
so as long as you can't validate AI
you will not have
a second AI validated
which then would be four eye principle
because they're both yet in a sense of you're not
you're not a value
or like a validated system yet.
But I do agree what much
have also said.
You can save so much more time
for just for content creation
for summarizing what was
what is regulations for
um factor X
so any data that has been
out till January 22 is in a system
and you can very nicely filter and get that.
Ok, we have a question here for Mr Martijn
Mr Martijn, we got
a question from our audience.
Finally they woke up.
So, what is the better option for a diploma holder?
Joining a start-up
or working with large corporation?
Yeah, if
if I understand the
question correctly
this is from somebody that's
leaving school or
the university I think
Yes, I think so yeah.
Yeah yeah. That's a good one.
At first you
you have to be keen on what kind of person
are you because
I put this away because it's a little bit annoying.
What kind of person are you?
If you want to start
some people say okay
when I want to learn
the first couple of years with
with kind of trainee programs and that kind of things
I would definitely advise you
not to go to starter.
But to go
to corporate.
But if you are,
if you want to
work directly and
see how things works or not
you want to experience that.
But also
put your sleeves.
How do you say that?
Make the world your sleeve, roll up your sleeves
Yeah.
It's starting in
in a start-up.
It's fun because everyday you learn
practical things,
how it works,
and I think in
in the corporate world you
you are more,
how do you say that?
They will help you to
to be more theoretical um
the best worker
but in the start
you learn every day how to work and
and so
it's up to you.
But there's a big difference and
and be sure there is more pressure in
that there's more pressure on results and
and doing things right first
in startups because there is
there is more pressure for results.
so I wish you a lot of wisdom to decide on that.
Be wise, yeah.
Yvette,
we also have another question from the audience
Thomas Evangelidis
I'm sorry if I killed your last name.
It's not my intention.
He said, speaking about AI,
how startups and big pharma perceive
sharing data and performing operations on the cloud?
In my experience
Big Pharma companies are extremely
extremely skeptical and reluctant
to use cloud based AI services for drug design
and startups are more open to utilizing these services.
I'm asking because it's much more
convenient to set up this online computional services
on the cloud to address development issues
and regularly update them
to go through a licensing and installation
on the premises of a big pharma company
which involves providing user support,
installation instructions,
travel shooting, etc
Additionally,
for resource demanding AI applications
the cloud saves
the cost of purchasing expensive hardware
for just occasional use of the application.
I think it's somewhat something for you Yvette
Yeah, well, that is uh
that is a question that I've actually been faced quite
quite often with.
So it always comes back
speaking of corporate
it always comes back to data integrity GDPR
proper intellectual property IP
so this is, it is a hot and big topic for pharma.
So, for example
it was a company and they wanted to implement
a new just a document management system
very easy setup
really easy going
but the quality department had to do a "change"
so it's a documentation
you apply for a change what is it
what should it be
what's the possible risks
and then you do have data safety
data integrity, GDPR
so a quality team needs to sit down
needs to sit down with IT people
for that company
and most likely, yes.
Just due to that possible risks
and additional work for the quality team
having other solutions
they might not pick you. So, yes.
This is a topic.
it's a hurdle.
So my recommendation on that is:
find out what tools they do use,
find companies
corporate companies that do have
approved tools, and just
find what is the cloud,
what is the server,
where are the servers located,
big topic by the way
and you're not having any European server
and your data run somewhere outside of Europe
Eastern or somewhere in US
they will not take your solution
so literally
this is something I can recommend.
Do a little checklist.
Call it a "change".
And if you wanna bring that product to a company that
is highly regulated
you already did the work for the quality manager
so not only
do you have the value
we talked about
your startup
why should I take yours
okay your product is good
and you have additional value
I don't need to do most of the regulatory quality work
so this is my recommendation
do not invent the wheel new
there is lots of other companies out there
that have solutions
for corporate and for big pharma.
See what's their solutions,
if cloud, what kind of cloud
where's the server
and stuff like that.
And do a risk assesment
intellectual property,
data integrity,
data safety,
and GDPR, and have these
specifically highlighted out,
and then if you
show that to a
bigger company
corporate company
it makes it easier.
It's called "supplier qualification"
So you qualify yourself
and you will always need that anyways
so you kinda
as we like to say here back home
it's 2 flies with one clap.
So this is a kind of a recommendation
I can give and speak here.
Yes, it is a big issue
sometimes for not good reasons
but it is a topic to be aware of.
I love the not good reasons haha
We have another question from Slawomir Pasko
I'm sorry if I mispronounce your name and last name.
What's the best way to validate product ideas
with pharma corporation?
Any suggestions on how
and what kind of roles should I look for?
Oh, Martijn.
I'm not fully aware what is meant by product.
Is that the medicine of treatment or new concepts?
I don't know
but let's
because it's not clear on this
From my perspective,
have a dialogue with your audience
have a dialogue with
the people
that could benefit from the product
I see a lot of companies and that's also
that's not only in corporate
but also in the smaller ones
that this step is often forgotten.
Talk with and know
who your audience is
know who can benefit of it and talk with them and
also to make a link with other industries
I worked a lot also in the financial service industry
and what they also did today a lot
had a lot of client arenas that they spoke with
with the audience about the financial products and
why do I mention
financial services?
because they are also very regulated
everybody in pharma thinks that the pharma is regulated
I can tell you maybe
financial service is even more regulated and they are
they were also pushed the last 10 years
to come out of their comfort zone
and of course
being aware of the fact you need to be compliant
you need to be
careful with
with how the things are done.
So maybe he's also asking what kind of rules
I would suggest also talk with
with people in financial services that are
how to say, involved in product approval processes
because each product in financial
should also be approved like
in the pharma business
and they are used to
to work in a very regulated environment
but I think they are a little bit further already in
in finding a balance between
relevance for the audience and
and being compliant.
I see that that's often a struggle for a lot of pharma
companies that they're really stick to okay
"we have to be compliant"
but there's also something like "what is the value"
and I know that it's very
extreme but
but come out of your comfort zone.
There are other industries that have the same struggles.
Yeah, that's what I want to say.
I'll answer this as well
and I think Yvette
it's a very interesting topic
Yeah
Thank you, you bring this up
So my input.
We actually had
a ton of discussions on this with Yvette um
and maybe if Yvette has time
she'll tell us about like sourcing from Alibaba
how can you
how can you find vendors for your free product
if you're informed? haha
Anyway so my input is this
so Platforce is an example of
how we were a small company smoking or working with
we are working with pharma, right?
And we have a tech product
which we're trying to sell to pharma
so the first
thing that you should have in mind when you
work with pharma
prepare for a lot of discussions
and pharma by
by far is
is very very compliant
So you have
you have all sorts of questions
Yvette that might sound like very stupid for you
For example, Consent.
Martijn here has a
consent only consent management company
so basically, right?
And it's very very
it's very important for pharma to be consent and to be
to do everything according to the rules
so when you create a software product
you need to know about the specifics of pharma
second is like
consider your audience
what problem are you solving for your audience?
Pharma, well you know,
everyone thinks Pharma has a lot of big budget
life sciences
also the same like
the Roches and the Grunenthal
of the world have a lot of money
yeah they do
but they're very
very careful about how they spend their money
and you gotta
you gotta find
you gotta bring them a
a painkiller
not a vitamin
so very often what I see is that
software products which are out there in the market
they are like a vitamin
which simply explain the nation is
why should they buy you?
like what what sort of pain are you
are you killing for me?
and if the pain is not enough
then they will not switch to your solution
like they'll
they'll use pen and paper like that you did before
because number 2 about pharma: is very conservative
and you have a lot of
you have a lot of talks on low levels
let's say on the manager level
on the C level
C executives and so on
how to validate?
I think Yvette
and Martijn can help
you can help with
with that part
I already spoke too much.
Yvette, you want the microphone and discuss validation?
Yeah sure.
I think the question is
the best way to validate the product idea
so on a product idea
the first thing that came to my mind is
the value proposition canvas
um maybe we can share a link for that
um and that also reflects Stefan
what you said
give them a painkiller
not a vitamin
and quite often
when people try to validate a new product idea
independent of it being an SaS product for pharma
it can be a new bike
doesn't matter or new car
they kind of mix up the pain and the gain
that a possible customer might have
have out of it
because people will not pay the money for the gain
it's a nice to have what you need
as Stefan mentioned
you have to have the painkiller
not the vitamin um
so this is one recommendation I can do
and as I also helped bring SaS
product for pharma for life science into
into this world
so what also my lesson learned is here
not only be aware of your potential customer
of course you need to ask them
but when you send them an email or try to contact
can you give me feedback?
what's your pain?
sometimes they don't even know
so my experience is a LinkedIn poll
so you do your canvas
you have great ideas about possible pains
you might have some feedback already
and then you let them decide and you will be surprised
but what they actually tell you their pain is
and what you thought their pain was
so this is kind of recommendations free
easy to do um
that I would like
get you guys on the way with
in a sense of validate
I think we all agree
bottom line
the customer in the very end says yes
I do need the product and gives you the contract
and I think that is your final validation
you do have
but other than that
these would be the steps
if you don't have a question on top
maybe understood your question
It's a very wide topic.
Otherwise,
I'd recommend these from my side.
Yeah and one
thing to add on what Yvette also said
and Stefan is
it's not a shame also to build
something together with a client
because then you also have your validation
and then you can scale it up and that's
that's what we actually did
um and then
you know for sure
in a company that it's a problem
then you have your validation
and then you have to think about
how can I scale the product then.
So don't be afraid to
to cooperate with
with the customer
to build something huh
I like the... Sorry
But I really like the scaling that you said
that building and working with a client
and building everything to meet their needs
because after all
cells involves
solving the need as it's definitely as a pain killer.
If you don't solve a need
then why do I need you?
At the end of the day
that will be the question.
Perhaps yeah.
It's really important.
And that's also
I have to say
that's also the most
challenging part
because you're
you're also
willing to mix up
the gains and the pains
what the
effects are,
that's often what happens
and we also did that in
in the past
so I recognize it.
Don't do that.
ha ha ha uh
We have one question on the screen and one question
behind the screen
so let's tackle the one on the screen
so we don't look
so everyone can please
write your question
so we can bring it in here.
How to drive success and do a quantum leap in startups?
who wants to tackle that?
I see you Yvette nodding
so I think you want to go
no there's no oh
The lesson I learned is
sit down from the very beginning
with everybody responsible and define
what is success
so I learned that everybody has a very different
approach of what is success or what is a quantum leap
for me for quality is oh my god
my quality management system is in place
yeah this can take one or two years
for marketing
oh my god my email campaign
we got 30% convasion on traffic that got a set up call
So, define what your goals are
they are most likely a bit more
department specific
also honestly
in a start up
what I learned is corporate targets
like the big targets you have in big companies
you are far away from that
start with the department um
success Kpis
because you need to learn what your company is
and before you will even
I mean honestly
the goal is to make money and be known
but you are far away from that as a startup
so really define what
what is success for you
is it monetary?
is it traffic?
is it conversion in a sense of paying customer?
To some startups
it's more valuable
to have a million follower in total on social media
and to some other
it's like I need five higher paying customers
and they make my
they make my
my my...
project going or whatever it is.
So it can be very different
so I think this needs to be defined first.
Ok, ok. I like it.
And then our second question behind the screen is
Every corporate has started as a start up company
how long and when can you consider start up a corporate?
I love that you've left that's a nice question
it's very nice question now.
thank you for that
yeah yeah
it's it's um
For me a corporate is
is...
It's a very systematic
company with a lot of rules and a lot of things that
a lot of processes um
that sometimes not nah
and sometimes
but also often not bring what's
what is needed to
be very
agile but also flexible regards your
your audience in
your dark group
but that's my opinion based on
on experience
Yeah, when is it?
I don't think that real startups end up in a corporate
because as long as that the founders and
and
the first people that built up
the first part of the company are still in the company
it won't be a corporate at all because then you
you still have the mentality of getting things done and
if it's needed to
change the strategy or adapt a strategy
so I don't think that
a lot of startup companies will never end
as a corporate
how I perceive how corporate works
but maybe there are other examples
but I don't think so.
I'll give you my 5 cents.
If you guys know
this is out of Pharma,
if you guys know Zappos used to be well
they were renowned about their customer support
at some point
people would call Zappos
the Zappos is customer support
nothing to order pizza
because their website wouldn't work for Domino and then
the customer support from Zappos would call the
the Domino's because they had
the direct line that they would order
pizza for like customers right
that you know
and then the
the founder who unfortunately passed away
the founder of Zappos
they were sold to Amazon eventually
He said...
He said the following things like
when I don't
when I don't know by name
every niche employ of my company
it means I've grown to biggest time either to
redefine it as a corporation or to sell the company
so I like that definition of a corporation
so if you don't know in person
your employees
all of your employees
then probably you've become a corporation.
I think we have a
we have a question.
We have a question
from Malén D'Urso
How can you effectively develop a brand awareness strategy
strategy
for a pharma company that is well established in
Europe and US
but it's expanding into new markets
let's say Latam
where... Sorry
Where the team is comparatively
small and resembles a startup?
It's quite like a startup inside of a corporate.
Have you ever dealt with something like that?
Yeah that's an interesting question.
I think what
what I learnt also
with similar
projects is
is that you have to validate how this
specific market works
what are the specifics of the market
what I often see is that the
the companies get direction in Europe and I think okay
then we are going to the US or from the US to Europe.
We helped also a lot of companies
that went from the US to Europe
but you really have to be keen on
how does it work.
For example in Europe
you have a total utter regime regards data Protection
Europe is more about digital safety.
We are more established on using digital channels than
for example in
in the US
what we see.
So try to understand
how did the...
What the dynamics are?
The specifics are per country to get your message
and because you're also asking about brand awareness
how you can bring your message to the right person
and that...
that differs from data Protection perspective
that differs from general perspective
that differs from cultures
that differs from how people are
want to be perceived
and treated
and a lot of people I think in US think okay
Europe is the same because that's Europe
but we all know Europe.
We have a lot of different countries.
Germans are totally different
than the Dutches.
Can I say that?
We are for more direct.
Doctors are also, have an utter perception
how they want to be
how they look to pharma
They're very suspicious
but in other countries that is not so.
So my advice is
try to understand how it really works in that markets
regards all these
topics I mentioned.
Yeah that would be my advice.
I like it. Yvette,
Do you have anything to add?
Yeah so um I had the situation where I was like very
you know blue eyed
as we said in Germany
you just do something
not thinking about
that you're outside of your box
and got a full on experience in well
it works different if you walk outside of your door
literally, yeah?
The Dutch people are different than the Germans.
the Spanish are different than the French people.
so I always like to go back to the persona
make a country specific persona
try to find advocates,
social media users who have big followers already
they know the follower
they know the business
they know the companies.
Invest in that
if you can, yeah?
You will have more out of that than
trying to do your own marketing strategy
because they already know the market
they already know whom to talk and where to talk to
so that is
point number 2.
Even for us supporting pharma companies
in my last position
we used LinkedIn people
or Instagram people who had lots of follower
on these topics
yeah and um
ask them what they would like for an exchange
you know and you can make a great um
advocates that kind of support you bringing
the idea of what your painkillers to the market
um and um also like
um getting to know the differences
in general does help
me personally
I don't know
I asked this question
in the private chat.
Can I? Can I say that?
Can I actually do references
recommendations?
So I stumbled over
her name is Erin Meyer
and she does
lots of like content
and she did the culture map
and I learned so much from that book
because it gives you
insights into
decision making
how open am I to conversations,
how much
is in the country,
and specifically on a business level
that is gonna help you.
So it's a recommendation I can give to you
so persona combined with
find somebody in that country
who's already having a network
plus understanding
the cultural differences yourself will help.
That's my recommendation on that one.
I like it. Stef?
You had something dropped.
Well so I'll
answer with a quote
from our ex speaker
her name is
Claudia Adreani
she said...
who is a proud
venezolana
so she's from Venezuela
living in the UK
for a very long time
she says "Europe and
UK is for business,
Latin America is for the soul".
Well I'm Latin American
so I can tell you she's right yeah
if we're talking about markets
you have to take each individual market as its own
and the first that you will you should consider is
market maturity
for example
If you take Latin America right
Mexico is let's say a more mature market than Colombia
and Brazil tops it all
Brazil is a very mature in I'm talking terms of
terms of pharmactic knowledge in the world
Brazil is the most mature market that
I personally have seen in Latin America.
It's not bad.
it's again it's about the economic
It's about the economics state
in the country as well
so if the economy stable
while pharma also developing quite fast
so you need to think about
a particular channel that will work for you in that
in that country
so if we talk about LinkedIn on
Latin American countries except Brazil
it's not really good channel
so you'll find people mostly on Instagram
you'll find people here on Instagram
you'll find people posting WhatsApp even on TikTok
and that would be
that's the way how they consume content
so you gotta
gotta do that
Brazil again
in Brazil it's a bit more interesting because they
they there maybe market is bigger
maybe they have more money
I don't know
but they do have like even science show like
science talk shows like Talking Pharma or something
I discovered it recently from an event
we are potentially going to
By the way
call out to her
she's doing a great job on creating content
on the behalf of pharma and popularizing
popularizing pharma
just to finish this
in Asia again
very big difference again in pharma um
big decisions are usually made in Singapore
if you talk about Asia Singapore
Middle East has its own hub in Dubai
without the outside that you have India big market
you have China and market on its own
where you have to adapt where the top of the listen
we organize this
we have another 10 15 minutes okay.
We're having, we're having fun.
Japan is another interesting market
but like if you're into pharma
then consider India consider Singapore and then China
Japan, Korea
these are the tigers.
Yvette, you wanted to say something, right?
I have something to add
but it will be like a promotional segment of this
talk show.
Are there any questions?
It's related to this,
so it's promotional
but at the same time it's on the topic.
We are planning
to have
actually uh
another talk show for
discussing the importance and difference
of the strategies used for brand awareness and
client acquisiton and things like that in Latin America
because as Stef said
it's very different from...
I knew you would like my promotional content haha
uh it's very different from the US and Europe
and as you guys said
even in Europe
as they put a...
I will say sometimes you think them as a block
like a whole thing
but you don't think
you don't separate the parts because in Latin America
Stefan said
Brazil is quite different from Mexico
Mexico is different from Colombia
and Colombia is from Argentina
We have certain
elements in common in our ways,
in our behavior
I will say but at the same time
it's quite different
even when you're speaking to one
we have different
life experiences.
So, so yeah
that will be my
my input in this
haha
Yes, do you guys have something else to add regarding?
Yvette or Martijn.
I asked a question a couple of
minutes ago in the private chats for us most
maybe that's for the audience
if there is still some
energy at the audience
that was the question
where is it?
which one?
yeah what can the audience
say about the difference in maturity and speed
in digital transformation
if you look to the more biotech and
uh the corporate ones
let's say let's say it like that
and I'm very curious how that is perceived because I
I have not been on that
but that's not the topic now
but I'm very curious how people see that if there
is there a difference in immaturity and
speed of digital transformation yeah
So we can test now if everybody still awake.
Can you please guys come on, wake up?
IIs there somebody that works
for big one and now for a biotech
and can share his experience?
because, well, but
we'll take it.
like I guess we'll discuss them if there is a question
there is someone coming and I would say yeah
there is a difference
so in terms of digital transformation
obviously smaller companies should be faster
I mean I know that for you it's right
it's so marching because we've been like what
we are partners for some time
now that I know you guys are fast but
um you know
In pharma what I can say about pharma
pharma is trying now to
to enhance the digital transformation
even the leaders that I talk to
are the leaders that I talked to in pharma
they they say look
AI is a big thing and we're
we're certainly wanna embrace it.
Our providers
ABCD are not interested in providing more AI
so we have we're looking for solutions
so answering that, it is actually common there.
Yes there is
there is a gap there.
So pharma,
let's say software providers
not all of them are embracing AI in terms of like
features that support the AI
so there is certain AI issue in the market
if you can help with that
that would be great um
I think speed is the only
only edge competitive edge that you have as a startup
speed and maybe flexibility
but with time it passes and you lose it
that's why it's important not to lose momentum
We already have example, Stefan,
from your perspective
that you see some biotechs are
are further than
than the big ones because of their
that they are smaller and that they embracing more
the opportunities from digital transformation or is
isn't that your conclusion till now?
Yeah, it is, it is
it is my conclusion as well
what we work with again
I'll talk about Platforce.
We work with a lot of companies who
who where you know...
Platforce is the first CRM in the US actually
That's the first CRM they encounter
and then they see not only for biotech
but also for life science and for
pharma too and even
even in the cultural company approached us and say hey
uh we see like a lot of common things here
we're going through a rapid digitalization here
um is there anything you can do for us like uh
we're seeing a lot of common things in
in your platform that we could use for agriculture
and I was shocked
I was like yeah
but apparently there is money in
in agriculture as well
and it's similar in some way to
to what we're building for
for pharma and life sciences you know?
Yeah.
I can from my perspective
but everybody has different perspectives
I don't see
I think in in
in showing how it should be digital transformation
I think um the
the corporates are very strong
but I don't see it in practice a lot
if I'm being honest
and in the biotech scene
I see that they are
of course very focused on getting traction
um but they are also lacking the capabilities to
really jump on the train on digital transformation
because they
they have limited resources and
money
to really step on the train so
so but that's
that's that's what I see
It's...
it's in both
uh companies
it's not going that fast
but that's also
I think that has to do
but because we talk a lot about it also in our company
and with our clients
what the real problem is
I think is that there is no compelling event yet
for pharma to really jump on this train
Well, I mean
I experienced life in
in both settings that they can both be fast
they can both be fast
I do agree the average flexibility
agility is with a smaller in startup that's given
but I've also seen that big corporate
speaking of Covid
you would be surprised how fast overnight
they were willing to go into digital outsourcing.
Because there was a compelling event they had to be.
Exactly yeah.
So they can..
Yvette, sorry.
Can you tell us that? I think it comes handy now yeah
so yeah I mean
you know that's
that's that was the start for my last work
for my last project that just got out overnight
so to speak yeah
it was very useful to kind of have that little push
um and I do agree that pharma uh
companies should have
even if it's one person
one person per company is fine
so you need one person for startup
you need one for corporate
who should have a specific
business development sub task that is digitalization
and although they have bigger development
business development teams
they actually have less resources
which is unreasonable on these topics
because they do have enough money
they do have
enough people working in business development
but maybe they do oversee it
maybe they do not have the need and
or I think they just don't have the pressure
Exactly! And that
I think Steph and I shared it with you in our previous
conversations
the reason the digital transformation
was effect for banking and insurance
was of the credit crisis in 2009
because their
business model shifted very fast from
financial results to operational excellence
and then they had to
otherwise we
we we in the Netherlands or in Germany
you just uh now had to
to go to a bank office to open a bank account
still in this time
but it it's
it's it's I'm
I'm wondering when this compelling event is
is really coming
and Covid was a
was a first one
but what you said Yvette
it was also a little bit fading away
I forgot after that
because the sales reps could go out again haha
so yeah yeah
but that that's
that's the truth.
So, I'm yeah
I'm very curious what the
the really compelling event will be that they will
x ray this
this digital transformation
I think that
at the end of the day
everyone wants to have
and maybe everyone needs to still be competitive
and as soon as one of them
start with that process
the other ones will follow
because according to the movie trolls from
it says "no troll left behind"
Well, in this case is the same
no company wants to be left behind I think
Exactly the fear of missing out is that, huh?
So, guys, Stef,
do you have anything else to add?
Because we're
running a little bit over our time with you
and we don't want to keep you here kidnapped.
So let's rope up
let's rope up with the discussion.
First of all,
thank you audience so much for being with us today.
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but most important
follow our guest day Doctor Yvette
and Martijn
for leading their own very
very great companies
follow them on LinkedIn guys
Do you want to let people know where to find you on LinkedIn?
your emails?
maybe websites?
Yeah sure so
my name .de is my webpage and with that name
there's just one Yvette Schollmeier actually worldwide
so you will not have hard times find me haha
So no excuses! haha
Yeah this is over me
I'm fully available via LinkedIn so
if you have a question or remark or
everything you want to know
just drop me a message
and the website is optinsight.com
right, Martijn?
www.optinsights.com awesome
So Yvette do you have a website that people can look at?
maybe contact you or your services
yes www.yveteschollmeier.de
yeah you know
All right. Thank you very much for being our guests
Thank you very much to our audience.
We're doing this for you.
Thank you, Juliana,
for organizing this and see you quite soon. Thank you
Thank you everyone! Bye, thanks!