Welcome to The Chemical Show, the podcast where Chemical means business.
I'm your host, Victoria Meyer, bringing you stories and insights
from leaders driving innovation and growth across the chemical industry.
Each week we explore key trends, real world challenges, and the
strategies that make an impact.
Let's get started.
victoria_2_09-10-2025_123816: Welcome back to The Chemical
Show Where Leaders Talk Business.
Today I am speaking with Dewey Johnson, who is the Senior Vice President of Dow
Jones, and more importantly, perhaps the global head of Chemical Market Analytics.
So we're gonna be talking a little bit about Dewey Chemical Market
Analytics, and what the heck is going on in chemical markets today.
So Dewey, welcome to the Chemical Show.
dewey_1_09-10-2025_123659: Thanks, Victoria.
It's a pleasure to be here.
victoria_2_09-10-2025_123816: I am really glad to have you here.
So let's just start with you.
What's your origin story?
How did you get into this wonderful world of chemicals?
dewey_1_09-10-2025_123659: I've always been interested in science
and how the world works and, uh, was always, um, was good in math and, um,
so it was a kind of a natural fit.
I joined, um, the chemical industry through Eastman Chemical
Company, which was the chemical arm of Kodak, a few decades ago.
And, uh, did the, did the technical piece.
So it was process engineer, and then project engineer building chemical
plants, uh, different parts of the world.
And then went into, um, I wanted to kind of have a line of sight to where the money
flow is and went into commercial roles.
Global sourcing.
Eastman at one time was the largest producer of PET of polyester, and so
in the strategy group there as well as, uh, and then sourced for that group.
So, sourced aromatics and olefins and then had commercial roles.
Eastman was also big in the asset tills business, so, purchased
methanol, sold as, uh, asset tills, the industrial gas contracts, you
know, kind of that varied area.
then somewhere along the way, uh, taking some, uh, corporate strategy
roles very interested in kind of modeling quantitative type models, and
everything from game theory on kind of.
What, you know, if we take this move, what does our competitor take?
victoria_2_09-10-2025_123816: Yeah.
dewey_1_09-10-2025_123659: and kind of in a rigorous way, not, the
simplistic way, but found some experts in game theory, that GM used and,
uh, and that's a whole community.
and from that also did a lot of dynamic modeling.
Chemical industry, we know about feedback, control theory used to control processes.
It can be applied to socioeconomic systems too.
And MIT is a leader in that.
so I got very interested in that.
Uh, have worked with, number of, uh, the staff at MIT as well as, uh,
you know, graduates of, of, uh, of that program, system dynamics, and
found that to be very intriguing.
And, um, and so I've always.
Found it interesting to take the real world behavior converted into
quantitatively rigorous models and then be able to interpret
that back to the real world.
And think for CMA, that's kind of, um, a skillset that we look for
and it's kind of a hard to find
victoria_2_09-10-2025_123816: Yeah, I was gonna say that totally then connects
with what Chemical market analytics does.
So outta curiosity, when did you venture out of working for a chemical
company to being this analyst, and running an analytics business
that supports chemical companies?
How long have you been doing this?
dewey_1_09-10-2025_123659: Great question.
I'm, uh, I'm younger than I'll look, lemme put it that way.
But, uh, so, um, a number of years at Eastman, I was a big client of CM ai.
victoria_2_09-10-2025_123816: Okay.
dewey_1_09-10-2025_123659: you know, again, appreciated market insight,
the data and the market insight, in terms of causality of behavior
victoria_2_09-10-2025_123816: Yeah.
dewey_1_09-10-2025_123659: STEM AI was, , the leader in
that and that was a big client.
An opportunity came up in, uh, one of the, uh, business areas for CMAI.
And, uh, I knew the firm well.
so I moved from, Tri-Cities, Tennessee, which was the headquarters
of Eastman Chemical to, to Houston and so I joined in 2009.
and then I've been leading, uh, the research part of the
business and now OCMA since 2012.
victoria_2_09-10-2025_123816: Okay.
half of your, you know, you can almost say half and half, right?
Uh, in terms of a career perspective.
dewey_1_09-10-2025_123659: I enjoy the consultancy piece.
We talked to, know, we have many clients across the industry.
It's, amazing to talk to, um, different clients of different
cultures, the personalities involved.
so I find that a fascinating, um, career choice.
victoria_2_09-10-2025_123816: I bet.
I bet it is.
Alright, so tell us a little bit about Chemical Market Analytics,
because you know, and you and I have talked about this before.
Um.
People are a little confused as to who you are.
Like they know you're the, the people in the organization.
In fact, Steve Lewandowski, of course, has been on the Chemical show
several times, but sometimes I know you probably see this, people keep
referring you to you by your old names.
But let's talk about chemical market analytics and how you came to be.
dewey_1_09-10-2025_123659: Yeah.
Thank you.
Um, a number of my directs are, you know, their own brand.
I would say, you know, you mentioned Steve Ladowski, Nick BFIs and
Polyolefins, or Joel Morales.
Pablo, uh, Georgie also does Olefins, Duncan Clark.
Peter Fang does aromatics.
Ashish Bijari in Asia, uh, Nick Koic, in the inorganics chloride bottles.
So, yeah.
Uh, our senior people are, are known throughout the industry.
So formerly, again, almost the whole organization, the body of
intellectual property, and many carryovers came from CM ai and, um.
So the legacy CMAI was formed in 1979.
and then in, uh, it was managed as a partnership, like much like a legal firm.
And then, uh, in 2012, uh, I Hs acquired, uh, CMAI and then shortly
after that, well, I just acquired 50
victoria_2_09-10-2025_123816: I was gonna say IHS was in a huge acquisition
mode, so CMAI was not the only company they acquired at that time.
dewey_1_09-10-2025_123659: right?
victoria_2_09-10-2025_123816: Yeah.
dewey_1_09-10-2025_123659: uh, they were given a heads up.
If you really want kind of the deep chemical insight, you need to go hire
CM, AI or fi, um, To purchase CMAI.
victoria_2_09-10-2025_123816: Yeah.
dewey_1_09-10-2025_123659: we were acquired in 2012 and then I think around
2015 Market, which was a financial, uh, entity, and IHS, merged and it
victoria_2_09-10-2025_123816: Got it.
dewey_1_09-10-2025_123659: and so many people were pleased with that
because if you, uh, in the old days, if you did at IHS, um, it always
deferred to his instead of hs.
So, um.
So we were the base chemicals, coverage for IHS market.
And then in, in 2000, the deal was closed in 2022 as s and p was
looking to acquire IHS market.
there was a couple issues, Opus, which is also, um, we're together.
Opus and CMA.
so CMA has two business lines.
One is market insight, which is.
Why is the market behaving the way it is and how is it expected to
behave in the future, a forecast?
And so the focus is really on causality of behavior and forward look.
a key part of our business.
That was our legacy, is our legacy.
other part of the business is over time we became a big price reporting
agency, meaning we do discovery on how markets are transacting.
We talk to buyers and sellers.
Uh, we do the discovery, uh, sufficient to characterize the market, and then we
provide an index or an assessment of what the market is transacting at, and
clients often refer to that in contracts.
So that's the PRA Price reporting agency.
It was the PRA.
of the business that overlapped with the plats, uh, at s and p.
So that overlap, uh, required regulatory, uh, agencies required,
for that to be di uh, divested from IHS market before the deal was done.
uh, Jones was the acquirer.
So.
We've had a new parent since 2022 and um, it's actually
been a great, um, a great ride.
really good parent.
And just to comment on that, Dow Jones obviously known for its media
organization, the Wall Street Journal and Barons, but over the last few
years, Dow Jones was, uh, seeking to.
Also be in the business where unique content is important and
provided and leverages what Dow Jones is really known for as well.
And that is integrity beyond, question and trustworthiness.
And that has been, and is our legacy as well.
So it's a perfect fit.
victoria_2_09-10-2025_123816: I love it.
dewey_1_09-10-2025_123659: and Dow Jones is fully supportive of,
of the investment is we continue to grow to meet our client's
victoria_2_09-10-2025_123816: Awesome, awesome, awesome.
So the, so the current chemical market analytics by, what is it?
Chemical Market Analytics by Opus Odo Jones Company.
Is that the official long name?
dewey_1_09-10-2025_123659: That's the long name We're.
victoria_2_09-10-2025_123816: Okay.
I'm on board with collapsing that by the way.
So chemical market analytics is actually it.
The formation, when it was formed, it was the base chemicals business.
Plus the Price Reporting agency.
dewey_1_09-10-2025_123659: Yes.
Well, and
victoria_2_09-10-2025_123816: Okay,
dewey_1_09-10-2025_123659: it's the two business streams, I
would say two work processes.
We provide the service to clients as a.
is one package
victoria_2_09-10-2025_123816: got it.
dewey_1_09-10-2025_123659: You get the price assessments and
you get the causality for that as well as a forecast in one service.
Deliverable in one's per report.
victoria_2_09-10-2025_123816: Yeah.
dewey_1_09-10-2025_123659: And then just a little bit about CMA, we're 220 plus
will soon be two 50 people worldwide.
All the senior people and most of the organization came from industry
with a commercial background.
victoria_2_09-10-2025_123816: Can got it.
dewey_1_09-10-2025_123659: understanding the client's needs because we've
been the client and we've sat in the chair and experienced the stress.
Um, and so, cover about 350 chemicals, all of the core building blocks.
Uh, and then kind of the first order, second order, tertiary derivatives.
we've always been global for many, many years.
Even CMAI, so obviously big presence in Houston, but, uh, we're in, uh, Asia and
Singapore, big office in China, and, uh, but both in Shanghai and Beijing, we're
in Malaysia and then we're expanding in the Middle East, uh, in Dubai,
uh, Qatar as well as Saudi Arabia.
so, um, still growing our footprint in areas where where we need to
victoria_2_09-10-2025_123816: Yeah.
dewey_1_09-10-2025_123659: bigger.
victoria_2_09-10-2025_123816: Awesome.
Well, and and that's a, that's a great segue.
'cause let's be honest, do we, the global chemical markets
are something today, right?
Um, uh, I, I think, you know, for some, both of us have been
in the industry a long time.
We've seen cycles.
We've seen super cycles.
I'm not sure what I would say it is at the moment, uh, but
maybe you can tell us that.
But from your perspective, you know, what are the biggest things that are shaping.
The global chemical markets and you know, to a certain degree what
the heck is happening out there.
dewey_1_09-10-2025_123659: yeah, it's a period of high uncertainty, you know,
we'll, we'll use some overused words here.
Um, for the industry.
You know, good time to be a consultant, uh, a good time to, you know, really
to be a student of the market, which is kind of what I say we're.
victoria_2_09-10-2025_123816: Yeah.
dewey_1_09-10-2025_123659: and so, you know, kind of some major issues.
Certainly the market is in a period of, of oversupply.
I show often in, um, in more some of the more recent events, kind of, I use the
ethylene cycle to as a, as one example.
you plot, you know, since the early eighties, you know, through now,
and our forecast going forward, this is the longest and deepest down
cycle ethylene has ever experienced,
victoria_2_09-10-2025_123816: That's crazy.
dewey_1_09-10-2025_123659: And um, and
victoria_2_09-10-2025_123816: Well, okay, so I'm gonna ask you why, like,
it's easy to say it's about overbuilding and we've overbuilt many a time,
but is that what's really the why as to why it's such a deep down cycle?
dewey_1_09-10-2025_123659: Yeah, I've had that question even from, uh, we're gonna
point at Chi China, but even from our Chinese clients and all the majors are
clients, you know, ask us the same thing.
It's like, okay.
but so there's a number of factors.
One is, China has been marching down the pathway to over to self-sufficiency and.
Maybe the best example of that is in 2000, China's total global chemical
capacity was about 20 million tons, but 2040 would be 400 million tons.
So
victoria_2_09-10-2025_123816: Wow.
dewey_1_09-10-2025_123659: has a,
victoria_2_09-10-2025_123816: I'll send
dewey_1_09-10-2025_123659: now
victoria_2_09-10-2025_123816: it.
dewey_1_09-10-2025_123659: growth has been, will be in that same
pathway, but, at the end point.
But, you know, China's capacity build is just, you know, , 45 degrees, uh, angle.
so that pathway of, of moving towards self-sufficiency, has been, you know,
China has traditionally been a very capital efficient, uh, uh, make maker
or buy kind of, uh, player, but as they move towards self-sufficiency, it's.
The first relief valve relief valve is backing out imports.
And that's what they've been doing.
then when they overbuild, uh, and that's happening across multiple value chains,
then they moved to export, export the chemical, as well as the final
victoria_2_09-10-2025_123816: Yeah.
dewey_1_09-10-2025_123659: And so how did they get here?
So one is self-sufficiency, the other one was the demand profile
that China was building to suddenly, shifted downward dramatically.
And so, and all this capacity was still in the pipeline and it kept coming.
And demand has still remained significantly suppressed,
victoria_2_09-10-2025_123816: What's so, what's causing demand to be suppressed?
dewey_1_09-10-2025_123659: primarily, uh, infrastructure
in the real estate market, you
victoria_2_09-10-2025_123816: Okay.
dewey_1_09-10-2025_123659: uh, as well.
And consumer demand is down as well.
victoria_2_09-10-2025_123816: Yeah.
dewey_1_09-10-2025_123659: multiple sectors of China.
growth rates are significantly less than they were before, so they're
building against one demand profile is suddenly shift dramatically.
The other element is, at kind of exacerbating this is 2030.
China has set, will be the baseline for emissions reductions going forward.
And so a number of clients now are building, to become part of the baseline.
Um, and, um.
And then can start reducing after that,
victoria_2_09-10-2025_123816: Okay, so help me understand that.
So for, for China specifically, this, and this I guess, ties into
a sustainability and, you know, the greening of the industry, if you will.
Their baseline emissions don't get set till 2030, so there's an
incentive to hurry up and build and emit so that in the future you're
being measured in set 2030 number.
Is that basically the implication of what's going on?
dewey_1_09-10-2025_123659: China is very efficient and effective at play
at, at understanding the capitalist system, and that's kind of the rules
victoria_2_09-10-2025_123816: Okay.
dewey_1_09-10-2025_123659: And you know, they're very good at, you know,
kind of, Operating within the rules.
victoria_2_09-10-2025_123816: Yeah.
dewey_1_09-10-2025_123659: uh, they're doing what rational
market participants would do.
victoria_2_09-10-2025_123816: Yeah.
Which is a little, is that timing different than other
countries and regions?
Because I feel like, you know, 'cause I feel like, let's talk
about sustainability maybe is one of the trends that's really shaped.
Uh, certainly conversation across the industry as well as behaviors.
we're targeting, heck, here we are, 20, 25 goals and 2030 goals,
and 2040 goals, and reducing emissions to a different timeline.
Um, so is that right?
dewey_1_09-10-2025_123659: Yes.
victoria_2_09-10-2025_123816: Okay.
dewey_1_09-10-2025_123659: accord, but, you know, originally it was
concern about, uh, or we showed.
Across the industry, there were various, um, shown to how do
you, uh, get to no more than 1.5
degree sea warming.
victoria_2_09-10-2025_123816: Right.
dewey_1_09-10-2025_123659: I think the general consensus is that the climate
will warm higher, more than that.
and then, there's various initiatives.
Uh, the EU certainly, Advancing forward on, in terms of addressing
carbon emissions, the us you know, under current administration?
a bit of a pause on that.
So I would just say that as I talk to clients across the world, it is a
top of agenda item, at the C-suite.
but you know, it's also, sustainability is also, you need
to be economically viable too.
that's part of being a good citizen as well.
victoria_2_09-10-2025_123816: Yeah.
dewey_1_09-10-2025_123659: um, it remains a core initiative, I would say.
haven't met a CEO yet that it's not a critical item and it's not on their, it,
it's not on, it's, it's on the CEO agenda.
victoria_2_09-10-2025_123816: Right, right.
dewey_1_09-10-2025_123659: let me return back to China for one
victoria_2_09-10-2025_123816: Yeah.
dewey_1_09-10-2025_123659: There is a black swan there that's kind of
not, not showing up in our models yet, but it's a critical element.
When I talked to the major players, the 15th five year plan is due,
uh, next year, early next year.
current refinery, operating rate's about 70% expected to plateau and
perhaps decline further, is China leads the way on vehicle electrification.
China, the business model in China for the petrochemical industry is a
integrated refinery petrochemical complex.
That's the core
victoria_2_09-10-2025_123816: Right.
dewey_1_09-10-2025_123659: model.
And so as refining operating rates, uh, are under pressure, downward pressure.
how do they maintain a viable operating rate on refining?
And one way to do that is to build out feedstocks and pet camps.
So the potential for even more chemical growth, capacity growth
in China is reasonably high.
Uh, and that
victoria_2_09-10-2025_123816: I.
dewey_1_09-10-2025_123659: more disruption.
They will look to export and uh, and so again, that's calling a black
swan because we are still quantifying what the implications of that are.
But it does have significant implications for the global industry.
victoria_2_09-10-2025_123816: That's interesting.
'cause I, because, um, so basically because there.
oil demand for fuel for transportation is declining.
They're, they're gonna be shifting more potentially into chemicals.
dewey_1_09-10-2025_123659: In China.
victoria_2_09-10-2025_123816: Wow.
Okay.
dewey_1_09-10-2025_123659: And then just the other element on oversupply
if your advantage cost structure, people are still building, we still
have, a fair amount of capacity
victoria_2_09-10-2025_123816: I.
dewey_1_09-10-2025_123659: in the Middle East.
have some capacity being added in the us So again, when you combine
all that, but China's the most noticeable and significant disruptor.
victoria_2_09-10-2025_123816: Yeah, that's interesting.
And of course, I guess what comes into some of this then is tariffs, right?
So I know there's been a lot of discussion and uncertainty and what's happening
and what's not really happening.
And I think kind of the, the truest.
Purpose that somebody could say is for tariffs is to help manage some
of that, supply demand flow, uh, and, you know, potentially dumping
if you wanna use that term or others.
and yet we have a lot of uncertainty.
How do, how do you see this playing out?
Do we, I mean, I know that your crystal ball is as, uh, maybe not as clear
as anybody's had this moment in time.
It's all, it's all a little bit unclear, but, but when you look at what's going
on with this degree of uncertainty.
what conversations are you having around this?
Um, and what advice are you guys giving?
dewey_1_09-10-2025_123659: Uh, one of the things, we'll, at least, uh,
predicting the world, nobody can do that.
How the world will come out, but at least we'll provide a core set of
assumptions on that underpin our view.
I think clearly though we're seeing, a desegregation of the world, uh, or,
or, um, segregation, I should say, of the world, um, deglobalization.
and it goes, if you go back to history.
The chemical industry has been very good at, uh, build to exports, been
the model trade flow has then been a result of lowest cost optimization.
And when we actually do, you know, we do this quanti quantified rigorous
models, we do a backcast of trade flow across multiple chemicals,
it's amazing how if you just do a low linear, low cost optimization.
victoria_2_09-10-2025_123816: Yeah.
dewey_1_09-10-2025_123659: Very predictive of what historical trade flows have been.
And so going forward though, function, the, the equation is not just, uh,
risk, uh, it's not just, um, cost optimization, it's risk management.
And that's really changing.
COVID was the beginning to show that, to just plan on
a global efficient, no, uh uh.
Disruptions is a little bit too, uh, too naive.
victoria_2_09-10-2025_123816: right.
dewey_1_09-10-2025_123659: and then the trade, tariffs, uncertainty,
political uncertainty too has suggested.
Supply chain management.
Understanding supply chains is critical.
It's one of the things we'll talk about in our, uh, our home events.
And it was an event that, it was a conversation we had at
GPCA year, as we talked about.
Uh, it's now, it's also at the, at the C-suite conversation of
the configuration of the supply chain and how that might change.
victoria_2_09-10-2025_123816: you use the word risk, and that's
maybe the right word to think about because it's the geopolitical risks.
There's weather related risks.
Like we've certainly seen some supply chain impacts as a result of that.
And then there's probably this whole sense of, uh, security.
Not just security of supply, but security of your own destiny, I would imagine.
dewey_1_09-10-2025_123659: Absolutely.
another trend this.
Changing competitive landscape for feed stocks.
victoria_2_09-10-2025_123816: Yeah.
dewey_1_09-10-2025_123659: if you look at, for a large part of the world, it's
been this integrated refining d picks, meaning na, to olefins, for example.
and yet we see many clients, you know, moving to ethane and we're
seeing that in every region.
Europe, Latin America.
I was at the, um.
A APEC conference in May.
many China, clients are moving to, many have already taken the decision to
move to some production, to ethane or mixed feed, and Southeast Asia as well.
So, we continue to see more.
If, if they've not made the decision, it's under contemplation.
victoria_2_09-10-2025_123816: Yeah.
dewey_1_09-10-2025_123659: but that comes with risk.
Uh, ethane is a good example.
Um, will those exports get.
Tariff, will there be a tariff?
It's the supply is the US at the moment.
You know, will tariffs be applied?
Will supply chains be disrupted?
You know, there are a number of US clients, chemical clients.
We have clients on the energy side as well going, Hey, wait a minute, why are
we exporting our competitive advantage outside the US to others, exporting Ethan?
So.
You know, kind of Ethan comes with risk.
And we also find that, um, as we do bespoke work, clients often kind of.
Interestingly enough, costs, you know, it's an advantage situation,
but you need to make sure you've, uh, fully, captured all the CapEx
that's involved and, you know, what's the return on investment there.
So not a simple answer.
victoria_2_09-10-2025_123816: Yeah.
dewey_1_09-10-2025_123659: And the other thing on supply chain,
just the disruption there.
We've seen a number of assets in Europe, shut down, shut down the
cracker, but not the derivatives.
And we see ethylene now flowing from the US to, uh, supply those derivatives.
So there's some interim changes happening as, uh, as we see this pressure on, uh,
of over and, and pressure on margins.
victoria_2_09-10-2025_123816: Yeah, I think I, in fact,
I'm glad you brought up that.
'cause I was, I was wondering about this whole.
Uh, conversation around, you know, we're seeing shutdowns.
It seems like a lot of shutdowns, at least, you know, every other week
there's an announcement it feels like about an asset in Europe shutting down.
we've seen some of that in the North America.
I'm hearing less of that, uh, in other parts of the world.
And yet, to your point, earlier with, you know, if China's suffering some
of the same operating rates, you would logically assume at some point
some assets are gonna shut down.
So that's one piece of this.
The other piece though, Doy, that gets into some of this is, um, kind
of the whole free enterprise and the, the freedom market freedoms, right?
So it's easy to say, well, why are we, selling ethylene to a different country
or ethylene to a different country.
And yet, of course, at least in Western economies, we're operating
actually with a very much of a free market system, which maybe is more
controlled in other parts of the world.
Uh, I'm sure you're having these conversations.
How are companies navigating these, regional differences that are perhaps
causing them to shut down in a particular region or balancing what their risks are
as they look at their global footprint?
dewey_1_09-10-2025_123659: Yeah, I mean the, in this kind of period
where, you know, oversupply, and by the way, we haven't, we talked.
About the ethylene example across most chemicals,
victoria_2_09-10-2025_123816: Yeah,
dewey_1_09-10-2025_123659: really don't begin to improve
until the end of the decade.
And so, you know, that's a
victoria_2_09-10-2025_123816: that's, that's not something
anybody really wants to hear.
Dewey.
'cause everybody keeps saying it's 26th the year.
Like, I don't know.
dewey_1_09-10-2025_123659: I think critical item would be kind of
anticipate that could be the case.
victoria_2_09-10-2025_123816: Okay.
dewey_1_09-10-2025_123659: what, what's what I do in under
those set of circumstances?
So, I mean, I think that is the challenge.
and then the US operates a very, you know, yes.
victoria_2_09-10-2025_123816: Alright, sir, you have a tape, alright?
dewey_1_09-10-2025_123659: one time I
victoria_2_09-10-2025_123816: Yes sir.
Yes sir.
Okay.
dewey_1_09-10-2025_123659: was
at,
victoria_2_09-10-2025_123816: very much appreciate it.
dewey_1_09-10-2025_123659: and um, the European economist said that
the US practice ruthless capitalism.
And that maybe is a good example.
as does China pretty much, except
victoria_2_09-10-2025_123816: Hmm.
dewey_1_09-10-2025_123659: have the overlay as well
with, uh, government control.
So I think, um, you know, capitalism under this stress period, the good thing
is the week will, you know, kind of time the week it cleans out the market.
Um, and, you know, with a five year duration, I think it's
gonna clean out the market.
either, you know, low cost or you know, you, um, you look at where
the value's migrating and um, and you know, you find the profit pools
that, that you can participate
victoria_2_09-10-2025_123816: Yeah.
So what do you think?
So, so if, if this holds true that we see a five year recovery going forward, What's
gonna be critical for chemical companies and for chemical leaders to do, um, to
ensure that they're still in existence and successful, um, in running profitable
businesses over the next five years?
dewey_1_09-10-2025_123659: I think it's a great question.
Um, I think we've talked about, it's kind of like how do you balance
short term situation with long.
victoria_2_09-10-2025_123816: Yeah, absolutely.
dewey_1_09-10-2025_123659: it reminded me of kind of a workout, right?
There's metabolic conditioning, cardio and there's muscle development,
and you gotta gotta do both
victoria_2_09-10-2025_123816: Right.
dewey_1_09-10-2025_123659: And, um, and so in that way I, you know, you
gotta kind of, you, you gotta survive.
And yet there, there's the long term.
What am I gonna be as I go forward?
So.
when I look at this, I think kind of some of the keys to success is we are
looking at a chronic oversupply, or at least one for a reasonable planning
duration, time to be decisive now.
It's not gonna get any better in the near term horizon.
and so.
To delay means just prolonging, you know, kind of a decision.
So, uh, and then the other thing is I think we'll see, we will
see more m and a, you know, as we
victoria_2_09-10-2025_123816: Yeah.
dewey_1_09-10-2025_123659: work, we're seeing that we see
it before it becomes visible.
So, um, we're certainly seeing a lot of activity from clients in,
not only in the market sector, but in the financial sector.
, We have clients, um.
across the, the spectrum
victoria_2_09-10-2025_123816: Yeah.
dewey_1_09-10-2025_123659: you know, we're seeing a lot of analysis being
done, uh, and kind of different kinds of either asset reconfiguration or, uh,
acquisition, divestiture partnership.
victoria_2_09-10-2025_123816: Yeah.
dewey_1_09-10-2025_123659: where you draw the boundary around the
entity, um, I think we'll see more, know, kind of collaborations that.
with how to be more efficient and effective.
victoria_2_09-10-2025_123816: Yeah.
Yeah, I mean, it is definitely an opportunity for people to think about
reshaping their portfolios, uh, reshaping not just their assets in their, in
their, their assets, their products.
They're people and I guess their business relationships.
dewey_1_09-10-2025_123659: Yeah.
You talk about people, uh, you know, one of the, uh, I was thinking of disruptive
issues or kind of critical issues.
We can't have a conversation and not at least spring it up.
And that's ai.
victoria_2_09-10-2025_123816: Yes.
dewey_1_09-10-2025_123659: And, uh,
victoria_2_09-10-2025_123816: I.
dewey_1_09-10-2025_123659: with, uh, with the Dow Trump, we had a Dow
Jones Leadership Summit last week.
AI was a topic.
and we had multiple speakers.
Everything from, you know.
The world's gonna be different and it's, you got 35 months to deal with it.
you know, it's a world of huge opportunity and it's kind of both
victoria_2_09-10-2025_123816: Yeah.
dewey_1_09-10-2025_123659: But you know, when I think about, what I see and what
some of our clients are doing, you know, it certainly affects product development.
You know, what's happening there?
Uh, technology.
service provision and how we deliver services.
Staffing, you know, that's kind of the big issue that's on in the news.
A lot of, you know, there's a well doc, well publicized item.
I think McKenzie said that they, they're going to 5,000, uh, staff members are
affected because they're putting that investment in, uh, development of agents.
victoria_2_09-10-2025_123816: Wow.
dewey_1_09-10-2025_123659: And there's agents and then there's agen systems.
And so, that's more complicated than I fully can explain, but I
think it definitely is the case.
I think, it will be a critical issue that will affect us.
I think the chemical industry, I would call us a laggard in this space, frankly.
and and I think, I do believe that the wave is coming faster than, uh.
For
victoria_2_09-10-2025_123816: Yeah, I agree with that.
And I think we're, um, it's, it's not easy.
And I've had a number of, uh, conversations and.
I was kind of at a quasi think tank session earlier this year, specifically
around, digitization and AI and how, companies inside of chemicals are
harnessing that and it's not easy.
, A lot of it is based on when you think especially about.
A lot about AI requires really good data, of which we have tons of data,
reams of data, thousands of, and probably millions of data points.
our ability to harness it, our ability to share it effectively across boundaries.
'cause of course, that's one of the things that, makes it tricky, right.
Is uh, a lot of the boundary conditions that we set.
but AI is, it's here.
I mean, I gotta be honest, I use it all the time.
How about you?
Do you, do you guys use much AI in business today?
dewey_1_09-10-2025_123659: We we're definitely using it.
I'd say we're at different levels across the business.
E even at the corporate level, there's a strong initiative.
victoria_2_09-10-2025_123816: Yeah.
dewey_1_09-10-2025_123659: you know, we announced earlier this year, Dow
Jones has a partnership with Chat, GBT, a strategic partnership, but
we're using it across the business.
and by the way, I'll give a, a learning for me that I learned, uh,
last week is we had one of, uh, ai, players, in terms of using the system.
A great prompt to ask, uh, whether it's Gemini or whatever you're using, to
ask AI to continue to ask you questions until you've met your objective.
And so instead of you having to think and ask the next question, let it continue
to ask until you converge on what you
victoria_2_09-10-2025_123816: Yeah, that's a brilliant one.
Mm-hmm.
I, I've started to use that myself.
So I'll go in and I'll ask, you know, say, Hey, this is what I'm trying to do.
These are my, you know, and then I will say, okay, is, is there more
questions or other information you need?
In order to gimme that result.
Um, and that's helpful.
Okay, so, so I, we're getting close to wrapping up, but I do have a
couple more questions for you, Dewey.
So I'm just gonna ask, so how is it being part of Dow Jones?
So, I gotta be honest, I am a long time, I think about Dow Jones and I
think about the Wall Street Journal, and I am a long time subscriber.
I love, um, I love the Wall Street Journal, you know, shut out.
Um, but, but Dow Jones brings its own.
Presence and reach, and impact, how is it for chemical market analytics
being part of the Dow Jones enterprise?
dewey_1_09-10-2025_123659: so first of all, I, you know, my team is
not my org chart, it's Dow Jones.
So, of starts with that kind of a thought, thought process,
victoria_2_09-10-2025_123816: Yeah,
dewey_1_09-10-2025_123659: uh, we're seeing.
first of all, I, I love
victoria_2_09-10-2025_123816: I.
dewey_1_09-10-2025_123659: part of the Wall Street Journal, 34
million unique viewers a month.
we've all often said in the chemical industry that, you know, the general
public doesn't understand this, so we continue to have the opportunity.
To be clear, the media group is very independent and they will do
victoria_2_09-10-2025_123816: I've heard that.
Yeah.
dewey_1_09-10-2025_123659: but, it gives us, you know, we're,
we're asked to provide a view and we, you know, we provide that.
So, and then they'll ask everyone else as well.
So, uh, it's a huge opportunity there.
We
victoria_2_09-10-2025_123816: Yeah.
dewey_1_09-10-2025_123659: it's also an opportunity as we look at,
you know, the Middle East and, uh.
And the country's there, you know, as they continue to seek the news
and seek coverage, that's objective.
Um, you know, the media organization provides that opportunity and the Dow
Jones footprint, and in a holistic way is available, is there to support them.
victoria_2_09-10-2025_123816: Got it.
dewey_1_09-10-2025_123659: think that's terrific.
and Dow Jones is really excited about the energy in the chemical sector.
One of the most important sectors affecting general public and, um, and
in industry or well, uh, the world.
And, uh, and so they have been continued to be very supportive and,
they've provided us, uh, as we've asked for resources to meet client needs,
victoria_2_09-10-2025_123816: Yeah.
dewey_1_09-10-2025_123659: been very supportive in, um,
in, in our investment request.
victoria_2_09-10-2025_123816: Awesome.
That's always good.
It's always good to have a good parent company.
dewey_1_09-10-2025_123659: Uh, I'll mention one other example, Victoria.
Um, so we're having our, our World Chemical Forum is next March,
March 25th and 26th.
we have the choice to the opportunity to make that unique and, and so,
uh, one of the unique items is certainly, both participation and
coverage by the media groups, the Wall Street Journal and Baron's.
and on the participation side, it allows us to bring in the senior
journalists and their, you know, core expertise is ensuring that the
right, that the issues are surfaced
victoria_2_09-10-2025_123816: Yeah,
dewey_1_09-10-2025_123659: uh, in detail.
And, um, as you know, from Wall Street Journal articles, there's
not, they don't do fluff pieces.
It's really, you know, a detailed analysis objectively done.
So I'm really excited about that.
victoria_2_09-10-2025_123816: that's cool.
dewey_1_09-10-2025_123659: I'm also excited.
From our core on insight, we'll definitely discuss the issues, critical issues in
terms of what's happening, but we'll go a lot deeper than that and talk
about where's the market going, are the implications of that, and, and if the, if
the world evolves differently, you know, what are the, some scenarios around that.
So if, if you think of it from a game theory analogy, it's what's
the objective or what's the problem?
What are the constraints around that problem?
What options do market participants have?
What are preferences that are being looked at?
And then what are the potential slate of outcomes?
victoria_2_09-10-2025_123816: Yeah,
dewey_1_09-10-2025_123659: kind of that
victoria_2_09-10-2025_123816: I.
dewey_1_09-10-2025_123659: analysis that leads to real action is where
the conference will go and it'll be heavily focused on just kind of
momentum, but where are the disruptors and where's the innovation happening.
It's gonna be, it'll be a big push on innovation change disruption.
and, you know, momentum will be what momentum is.
victoria_2_09-10-2025_123816: Yeah.
dewey_1_09-10-2025_123659: I think we're, I think we're in
a period of pretty big change.
victoria_2_09-10-2025_123816: Yeah, absolutely.
So therefore people need to keep, uh, relying on some good, uh, data and
inputs and uh, and value and stuff.
So I think that's great.
And, uh, and World Chemical Farms gonna be in Houston, is that right?
dewey_1_09-10-2025_123659: In Houston, actually in the Woodlands.
victoria_2_09-10-2025_123816: Oh, okay.
dewey_1_09-10-2025_123659: we wanted, we wanted a resort like setting
because the focus again is on thought leadership, innovation, disruption, So
it was, we really wanted to mix it up
victoria_2_09-10-2025_123816: Yeah.
dewey_1_09-10-2025_123659: again, the focus is decision makers in the room.
victoria_2_09-10-2025_123816: Got it.
I like that.
Awesome.
Well, do we, this has actually been great.
Um, not actually.
This has been great.
Of course.
It was great.
Uh, I really appreciate you taking the time, um, and sharing a little
bit more about yourself and.
I'm gonna call it the new Chemical Market analytics, even though
you guys are three years old, and what's going on in markets today.
So thank you for this.
dewey_1_09-10-2025_123659: Yeah, we're actually 46 year olds.
46 years old.
We've just been called many things over time.
victoria_2_09-10-2025_123816: Yeah, no kidding.
Right?
Well, uh, what's old is new again and all that good jazz, I guess.
dewey_1_09-10-2025_123659: Victoria, terrific.
Great to be with you.
victoria_2_09-10-2025_123816: Yeah.
Thank you and thank you everyone for joining us today.
Keep listening, keep following, keep sharing, and we will
talk with you again soon.