WEBVTT NOTE This file was generated by Descript 00:00:34.482 --> 00:00:37.059 Duke: All right, two recordings in under one week. 00:00:38.304 --> 00:00:38.594 CJ: dude. 00:00:38.824 --> 00:00:40.299 Duke: What, what the hell happened? 00:00:45.279 --> 00:00:46.119 All right. 00:00:46.119 --> 00:00:49.359 Welcome to another CJ in the Duke, and actually this is going to 00:00:49.359 --> 00:00:51.429 be part two of the last episode. 00:00:51.729 --> 00:00:54.859 Link is gonna be in the description below, we, , got so much feedback 00:00:54.959 --> 00:00:57.449 that we decided to just continue it. 00:00:58.239 --> 00:01:00.189 , we also have a very, very special guest. 00:01:00.266 --> 00:01:01.526 Tim Woodruff is with us. 00:01:01.526 --> 00:01:03.866 This is what, third time on the podcast, Tim 00:01:04.222 --> 00:01:05.172 Tim: That sounds about right. 00:01:05.462 --> 00:01:09.762 Duke: and, Tim has volunteered to, , be the person asking us 00:01:09.762 --> 00:01:11.472 questions about networking today. 00:01:11.856 --> 00:01:17.226 So we understand this comes , very naturally to some people and to others. 00:01:17.256 --> 00:01:19.476 It's not so natural. 00:01:19.716 --> 00:01:25.629 And so we hope that with this one we can give you more tactical, nitty-gritty 00:01:25.629 --> 00:01:27.787 and actually doing the networking. 00:01:28.153 --> 00:01:31.833 CJ: Yeah, I wanna ask some specifics, to what is largely, , a conversation 00:01:31.833 --> 00:01:35.460 about feel, but, feel doesn't really work if you don't have a filling for 00:01:35.460 --> 00:01:37.260 it, ? , , if you can't intuit it, right? 00:01:37.260 --> 00:01:39.478 Like you need a little help, to build up that intuition. 00:01:39.848 --> 00:01:42.428 Duke: and someday I hope as a return for this, I hope somebody 00:01:42.428 --> 00:01:43.448 can teach me how to dance. 00:01:43.478 --> 00:01:45.338 'cause everybody's just feel the music man. 00:01:45.338 --> 00:01:46.328 And I'd be like, what? 00:01:47.568 --> 00:01:47.648 Tim: Hmm. 00:01:51.503 --> 00:01:56.064 That, you know what, that's exactly how I feel about, social interactions as I 00:01:56.064 --> 00:01:57.534 think a lot of people feel about dancing. 00:01:57.624 --> 00:01:59.664 Also, fun fact, I feel the same way about dancing. 00:01:59.694 --> 00:02:00.744 I'm also a terrible dancer. 00:02:01.011 --> 00:02:02.901 I'm aware that I'm able to move my limbs. 00:02:02.901 --> 00:02:04.461 That's the extent of my knowledge about them. 00:02:04.965 --> 00:02:09.002 I think a good place to start being as I'm so unbelievably terrible at 00:02:09.002 --> 00:02:14.006 networking is with the most remedial stuff right at the beginning, what 00:02:14.040 --> 00:02:16.560 exactly do we mean by networking? 00:02:17.070 --> 00:02:20.100 For me, it comes down to what differentiates networking 00:02:20.310 --> 00:02:21.570 from just being friendly. 00:02:21.580 --> 00:02:24.650 , I've always thought of networking as if somebody sends me a connection 00:02:24.650 --> 00:02:27.600 request on LinkedIn and they said, I just wanna network with you, I'm 00:02:27.600 --> 00:02:29.850 immediately sus, you know what I mean? 00:02:30.180 --> 00:02:32.370 Networking is like being nice to someone. 00:02:32.438 --> 00:02:38.008 With, ulterior motive and it just feels somehow slimy when you call it networking, 00:02:38.008 --> 00:02:40.978 instead of just being friendly, it has that name, it starts to feel slimy, 00:02:41.158 --> 00:02:44.748 especially when you start trying to evaluate, who it is that I want to keep in 00:02:44.748 --> 00:02:46.788 touch with and have as part of my network. 00:02:47.178 --> 00:02:51.588 So how do you get over that mental hurdle, or is that just a me thing that makes 00:02:51.588 --> 00:02:53.148 me feel weird and other people don't? 00:02:53.262 --> 00:02:54.282 Feel the same way about it. 00:02:54.777 --> 00:02:55.887 Duke: I think you're close. 00:02:55.937 --> 00:02:59.497 , I just think you've put a, negative slant on something that doesn't 00:02:59.497 --> 00:03:02.824 have to be negative, humans are a collaborative species, right? 00:03:02.824 --> 00:03:06.967 It's the reason why somebody can be a baker all day long, Because not 00:03:06.967 --> 00:03:08.257 everybody wants to bake bread all day. 00:03:08.257 --> 00:03:10.517 And so when you want bread, you go to the baker, or at 00:03:10.517 --> 00:03:12.167 least you used to, well anyway, 00:03:14.417 --> 00:03:15.437 collaborative, right? 00:03:15.487 --> 00:03:17.767 What's the first thing you do if you need something fixed at your house? 00:03:17.767 --> 00:03:19.027 You ask your network. 00:03:19.182 --> 00:03:22.062 Do you know a person that's trustworthy and reliable? 00:03:22.621 --> 00:03:22.901 CJ: Yeah. 00:03:23.195 --> 00:03:25.235 Duke: that's not, oh, you have ulterior motives. 00:03:25.235 --> 00:03:26.885 You want to get your drywall fixed. 00:03:27.305 --> 00:03:27.755 That's it. 00:03:27.815 --> 00:03:28.895 That's all you wanna do. 00:03:28.955 --> 00:03:31.505 You just wanna get your drywall fixed, you monster. 00:03:34.361 --> 00:03:38.351 It's, it's, I, I would say that net networking is more the, purposeful 00:03:38.401 --> 00:03:43.404 growing of connections that can be valuable to you in exchange 00:03:43.404 --> 00:03:45.294 for providing value to them back. 00:03:45.656 --> 00:03:47.846 CJ: Duke, that last part, right, we know we touched on 00:03:47.846 --> 00:03:49.355 this too in the last episode. 00:03:49.355 --> 00:03:52.165 You know, for me, when I think about networking, , Tim, your point, 00:03:52.165 --> 00:03:55.172 right, of being friendly, ? that's the default for me as well. 00:03:55.382 --> 00:03:58.845 But then it's also what can I do for someone else, So I always, think 00:03:58.845 --> 00:04:02.775 about networking from the perspective of I'm giving, and anything I get 00:04:02.775 --> 00:04:06.795 in return is just a bonus, And that takes the icky feeling away from me. 00:04:07.230 --> 00:04:11.641 Duke: And I would just say the distinction between friend and network is the 00:04:11.641 --> 00:04:13.501 amount of times it's been utilized. 00:04:13.957 --> 00:04:16.807 There was a time where Corey and I were just in each other's network 00:04:16.807 --> 00:04:20.237 and that was it, But we utilized that network connection, so many 00:04:20.237 --> 00:04:23.349 times that that breached a a friendship barrier at some point. 00:04:23.794 --> 00:04:24.514 CJ: That's a good point. 00:04:25.114 --> 00:04:28.496 Tim: And I, I love that perspective on it, especially when you referred to 00:04:28.496 --> 00:04:30.386 humanity as a collaborative species. 00:04:30.386 --> 00:04:32.456 That put that notion in my head of well, wait a minute. 00:04:32.456 --> 00:04:33.656 This isn't just for me. 00:04:33.899 --> 00:04:37.972 And maybe that's why it's always felt so slimy is because most 00:04:37.972 --> 00:04:39.802 of the time I don't go outside. 00:04:39.862 --> 00:04:41.632 There's like people out there. 00:04:41.932 --> 00:04:46.642 So, so for the most part, people trying to network with me, big air quotes. 00:04:46.642 --> 00:04:50.699 There, has been people sending me random connection requests on LinkedIn and being 00:04:50.699 --> 00:04:51.989 like, I just wanna network with you. 00:04:51.989 --> 00:04:54.689 And then they, I, I, feel like they set a timer for 24 hours. 00:04:55.149 --> 00:04:58.269 And then 24 hours they come back and be like, anyway, can I sell you some stuff? 00:04:58.449 --> 00:04:59.559 Can you buy some stuff for me? 00:04:59.739 --> 00:05:00.099 Right. 00:05:00.564 --> 00:05:00.954 Duke: Yeah, that, 00:05:00.969 --> 00:05:01.899 Tim: is that networking? 00:05:01.929 --> 00:05:03.309 That doesn't feel good. 00:05:03.309 --> 00:05:03.939 I don't like that. 00:05:04.284 --> 00:05:04.794 Duke: it's bad 00:05:05.019 --> 00:05:05.179 CJ: that. 00:05:05.274 --> 00:05:06.714 That sounds like prospecting. 00:05:07.044 --> 00:05:07.524 Duke: Yeah. 00:05:07.584 --> 00:05:08.634 Yeah, that's for sure. 00:05:08.964 --> 00:05:11.364 there's a lot of people who are bad at it, and that's what we hope 00:05:11.364 --> 00:05:13.464 these two episodes help people with. 00:05:13.584 --> 00:05:18.144 Like in the last episode, we talked about being clear with what you want and 00:05:18.144 --> 00:05:19.917 being clear with what you can return. 00:05:19.917 --> 00:05:24.131 So unfortunately there's so many sales channels that pretend to be networking. 00:05:24.131 --> 00:05:26.081 But it is just, like Corey said, it's prospecting. 00:05:26.531 --> 00:05:29.441 It's prospecting and, and not really good prospecting either. 00:05:30.081 --> 00:05:34.897 Tim: one thing I considered doing, but I haven't recently had both the free time 00:05:34.897 --> 00:05:38.844 and the will at the same time to really follow through on it, is to go out looking 00:05:38.844 --> 00:05:43.155 for people who might have interesting problems and then solve those problems in 00:05:43.160 --> 00:05:45.494 like a blog post and send them the link. 00:05:45.824 --> 00:05:49.724 So, I run, SN Pro Tips, so I write a bunch of tech articles about. 00:05:49.982 --> 00:05:51.632 Nerd stuff relating to ServiceNow. 00:05:51.632 --> 00:05:55.186 And I, I, sometimes I'll find someone who's asked a, a question, in the 00:05:55.186 --> 00:05:58.829 developer's Discord server, and I'll send them just a link to an 00:05:58.829 --> 00:06:00.329 article that I wrote a while back. 00:06:00.486 --> 00:06:05.256 But , for me personally, I think approaching every networking opportunity, 00:06:05.616 --> 00:06:10.146 specifically looking for not, how can you help me, maybe targeting. 00:06:10.506 --> 00:06:15.436 Who I I I look for based on, people that could potentially be useful 00:06:15.436 --> 00:06:19.532 to me one day, but approaching it specifically with the mindset of looking 00:06:19.532 --> 00:06:24.202 for things I can do for them as the basis for that networking opportunity. 00:06:25.072 --> 00:06:28.612 Duke: you're a really strange case on this, Tim, because. 00:06:28.882 --> 00:06:32.302 You have already done so much for the ServiceNow ecosystem, right? 00:06:32.302 --> 00:06:37.319 So you're already got a gravity towards you based off of the content 00:06:37.319 --> 00:06:39.059 and value you've already provided. 00:06:39.059 --> 00:06:40.229 The community at large. 00:06:40.781 --> 00:06:41.921 Tim: It's not the first time I've heard that. 00:06:41.921 --> 00:06:42.971 I'm a very strange case. 00:06:42.971 --> 00:06:46.001 You and my doctor have both been saying that to me for a while. 00:06:46.394 --> 00:06:48.434 but thank you. 00:06:48.434 --> 00:06:49.124 I, try. 00:06:49.124 --> 00:06:49.574 It's just. 00:06:49.624 --> 00:06:53.614 I started so long ago that the ground was a lot more fertile for me to 00:06:53.614 --> 00:06:58.084 get a foothold and become a little bit of, a name in the developer 00:06:58.084 --> 00:07:02.434 community just by putting out stuff back when there wasn't a lot of stuff. 00:07:02.824 --> 00:07:06.304 Um, and getting therefore high ranked on Google, I guess. 00:07:06.424 --> 00:07:09.361 , but for me, there's a purity to that. 00:07:09.707 --> 00:07:14.657 , I believe genuinely that the highest calling of mankind is to learn a thing 00:07:14.657 --> 00:07:16.457 and then to teach it to someone else. 00:07:16.714 --> 00:07:19.684 literally, it's definitional to our species. 00:07:20.087 --> 00:07:22.487 and that's just what you were talking about, about collaboration. 00:07:23.207 --> 00:07:25.157 We learn a thing, we wanna teach it to somebody else. 00:07:25.547 --> 00:07:26.087 That's. 00:07:26.146 --> 00:07:27.346 how we learn best. 00:07:27.346 --> 00:07:29.806 That's how you reinforce it in yourself, is to teach it to someone else. 00:07:29.896 --> 00:07:31.066 So I was just doing that. 00:07:31.246 --> 00:07:34.976 I was doing the nerd stuff, , and it just worked out really well for me. 00:07:35.396 --> 00:07:38.942 But maybe that's part of the reason why networking has always 00:07:38.942 --> 00:07:40.892 felt like a separate thing to me. 00:07:40.972 --> 00:07:44.062 it's always felt like I'm doing this one thing where I. 00:07:44.176 --> 00:07:47.476 Have an idea and I write the code and I think, Hmm, I'm, I might could 00:07:47.476 --> 00:07:50.206 use this in this way, but someone else might, could use it in that way. 00:07:50.206 --> 00:07:52.066 So I'll build it for that use case as well. 00:07:52.066 --> 00:07:57.106 And I'll write my code in this like functionally separate modular, API 00:07:57.106 --> 00:08:00.496 forward kind of way in case anybody ever needs to use it in that way or in case 00:08:00.496 --> 00:08:03.886 I like in the far future need to use it in that way, which happens so often. 00:08:04.486 --> 00:08:09.262 , but there's like a purity to that in my mind and, . I think I 00:08:09.262 --> 00:08:12.086 just need to get over that mental hurdle of, it's not separate. 00:08:12.626 --> 00:08:14.036 These are the same thing. 00:08:14.079 --> 00:08:20.859 when I start to frame it in my mind as networking is at least in part helping 00:08:20.859 --> 00:08:23.186 other people, that feels a lot less slimy. 00:08:24.691 --> 00:08:27.805 CJ: I think John Lennon, wrote this, but it's, life is what happens when 00:08:27.805 --> 00:08:29.545 you're making plans for it, right? 00:08:29.545 --> 00:08:31.885 Like networking's, right? 00:08:31.885 --> 00:08:35.507 Like networking is the same thing, Networking is what happens while you're 00:08:35.507 --> 00:08:39.310 making friends, , and I think you nailed it, Tim, you do things for the community. 00:08:39.310 --> 00:08:42.640 And so you've got folks they have a problem on the Discord channel, right? 00:08:42.640 --> 00:08:44.230 You know that you've already solved that. 00:08:44.230 --> 00:08:45.730 You find it, you shoot 'em a link. 00:08:45.910 --> 00:08:46.600 Boom. 00:08:46.780 --> 00:08:50.320 You have now started networking, that wasn't the intention of your 00:08:50.320 --> 00:08:53.450 action, ? The intention of your action was to help this person solve 00:08:53.450 --> 00:08:58.123 a problem, But in doing so, you made a connection with this person, And now. 00:08:58.230 --> 00:09:01.890 this person connects back, Which they undoubtedly will because 00:09:01.890 --> 00:09:04.350 they'll be grateful that you actually helped solve their problem. 00:09:04.710 --> 00:09:06.390 Boom, network established. 00:09:07.270 --> 00:09:09.490 Duke: Network is, a umbrella verb. 00:09:09.820 --> 00:09:12.820 For a bunch of other verbs that we actually like to do, 00:09:14.170 --> 00:09:14.980 CJ: Yes. 00:09:15.310 --> 00:09:19.630 Duke: we do like to help people how, when is the last time you felt bad for helping 00:09:19.630 --> 00:09:21.340 somebody whose problem you could solve? 00:09:21.820 --> 00:09:26.170 And on the other side of that, when somebody, maybe even a stranger 00:09:26.170 --> 00:09:29.080 gives you some of their time and says, I can help you solve that. 00:09:29.200 --> 00:09:32.860 Or Oh, I know a person who can help you with that and just connects you 00:09:32.860 --> 00:09:35.170 with somebody like that feels great. 00:09:35.583 --> 00:09:39.693 think about all the collection of things that you do with people that you enjoy 00:09:39.693 --> 00:09:42.296 doing or that can provide you value. 00:09:42.296 --> 00:09:46.727 And that's, networking and it's like takes the, icky slant off of it by concentrating 00:09:46.727 --> 00:09:48.853 on the lower level tasks within it. 00:09:49.370 --> 00:09:53.140 Tim: it really feels like networking can give you the opportunity to 00:09:53.140 --> 00:09:56.582 provide value to other people who you otherwise wouldn't. 00:09:56.632 --> 00:09:57.292 We're builders. 00:09:57.292 --> 00:09:57.982 We're creators. 00:09:57.982 --> 00:10:01.252 We wanna make new stuff and we don't just wanna make it for us, we 00:10:01.252 --> 00:10:02.902 want to make it for other people. 00:10:03.442 --> 00:10:06.682 We feel good when other people are using our stuff. 00:10:07.282 --> 00:10:11.212 And networking is an opportunity for me to. 00:10:11.212 --> 00:10:14.842 not just be helped by, but to help out other people, to build that 00:10:14.842 --> 00:10:20.342 goodwill and to, get that feeling , of knowing that the stuff that I do, 00:10:20.392 --> 00:10:24.552 is having an impact, , to someone enough that they want to stick around 00:10:24.582 --> 00:10:26.732 in my network, , and see that value. 00:10:27.152 --> 00:10:28.772 And there's nothing wrong with. 00:10:29.463 --> 00:10:31.173 I was gonna say, there's nothing wrong with getting something in 00:10:31.173 --> 00:10:34.030 return, but you're not even thinking of it in terms of tit for tat. 00:10:34.080 --> 00:10:37.200 , this is not, , I'm helping you in this way so that you'll do something for me, you 00:10:37.215 --> 00:10:39.855 Duke: we talked about this in the last episode being like the Karma Bank, right? 00:10:40.420 --> 00:10:40.780 Tim: Yeah. 00:10:41.155 --> 00:10:43.135 , Duke: we should probably state some of these things. 00:10:43.222 --> 00:10:46.792 , in case you're not Tim, here's, because you've got such an incredible 00:10:46.792 --> 00:10:49.592 Karma Bank with, , the books that you've authored and, and, the 00:10:49.592 --> 00:10:51.542 SM pro tips and, all that stuff. 00:10:51.975 --> 00:10:55.455 I wonder if we could sidestep into another question you asked on the, 00:10:55.455 --> 00:11:00.252 Discord thread, because there's the getting of people into your network. 00:11:00.562 --> 00:11:04.492 But also believe one of your questions was how to keep in touch. 00:11:04.822 --> 00:11:05.272 Tim: Yeah. 00:11:05.392 --> 00:11:09.802 And there's, I do feel like there's a version of networking that I do, 00:11:10.092 --> 00:11:11.622 where I just put myself out there. 00:11:11.742 --> 00:11:15.465 But that I think Is insufficient for actually accomplishing the 00:11:15.465 --> 00:11:16.965 goal of actually networking. 00:11:17.055 --> 00:11:20.835 You can't just be like, hi, and then disappear for five years. 00:11:20.865 --> 00:11:22.635 You haven't networked, you're just weird. 00:11:22.845 --> 00:11:24.765 Um, by which I mean, I'm just weird. 00:11:25.125 --> 00:11:26.505 Duke: Or you just haven't sustained it, right? 00:11:26.505 --> 00:11:30.255 Like you might make contact with somebody, solve a problem, or. 00:11:30.255 --> 00:11:32.055 Have a conversation about something important. 00:11:32.055 --> 00:11:34.725 You wanna revisit it like three years later. 00:11:34.725 --> 00:11:36.838 But you don't have that rapport anymore. 00:11:37.408 --> 00:11:40.538 So we do want to take a couple minutes and talk about how do you 00:11:40.538 --> 00:11:44.468 solidify in your head that keeping in touch is super important? 00:11:44.828 --> 00:11:46.358 Maybe like keep in touch with everybody. 00:11:46.358 --> 00:11:48.938 You got like 10,000 connections on LinkedIn, like good luck with that, 00:11:49.125 --> 00:11:50.865 but how do you develop a protocol for. 00:11:50.937 --> 00:11:54.657 Sustaining your network because I, I, I always think of a network as a garden, 00:11:54.840 --> 00:11:58.390 if you don't weed you don't water the garden, if you don't like prune it 00:11:58.390 --> 00:12:01.380 and all this kinda stuff, , it just, becomes a wild bush that you can't eat 00:12:02.355 --> 00:12:09.375 Tim: And it really is for me so hard to prioritize networking as a thing 00:12:09.405 --> 00:12:14.545 because, , that slimy feeling again, because there's not immediate value. 00:12:15.115 --> 00:12:15.655 To it. 00:12:16.055 --> 00:12:19.905 I don't just mean for me, if I'm reaching out and saying, Hey, how's things? 00:12:19.905 --> 00:12:23.415 Or whatever, just like maintaining that garden, there's not immediate value 00:12:23.565 --> 00:12:26.182 to that, to anyone directly at least. 00:12:26.572 --> 00:12:28.912 . It's so hard for me to devote the time to do that when I know I could 00:12:28.912 --> 00:12:32.032 be doing other things like writing code that will help someone someday. 00:12:32.452 --> 00:12:37.018 And I do have friends who are, amazing at maintaining their network. 00:12:37.048 --> 00:12:40.288 'cause I'll drop off the face of the earth for weeks or months 00:12:40.378 --> 00:12:41.518 and not do anything but work. 00:12:41.518 --> 00:12:43.962 And then I'll pull my head above water again and be like, 00:12:44.082 --> 00:12:46.752 oh, right, you guys exist. 00:12:46.902 --> 00:12:47.827 Are we playing DD? 00:12:48.082 --> 00:12:48.772 CJ: Yeah. 00:12:48.772 --> 00:12:53.782 So Tim, I a hundred percent agree with you and I know exactly that feeling, right. 00:12:53.932 --> 00:12:56.542 , and as, somebody who's diagnosed a DHD, right? 00:12:56.542 --> 00:12:59.095 , that seems to be one of the traits is that I. 00:12:59.352 --> 00:13:02.532 Relationships pause for you when they're outta sight, 00:13:02.827 --> 00:13:05.757 Tim: and it feels bad too 'cause, ' then I feel when I come above 00:13:05.757 --> 00:13:08.473 water again, I feel like, crap, I can't reach out to 'em now. 00:13:08.473 --> 00:13:11.677 'cause I've just accidentally ignored that they exist and like, yeah, 00:13:11.677 --> 00:13:12.727 they didn't reach out, to me either. 00:13:12.727 --> 00:13:16.267 I wouldn't literally ignore them, but it feels like I've done something wrong at 00:13:16.267 --> 00:13:17.377 the end of that, you know what I mean? 00:13:17.377 --> 00:13:18.187 Do you ever feel that way 00:13:19.152 --> 00:13:19.372 Duke: No. 00:13:19.987 --> 00:13:20.277 CJ: yeah. 00:13:20.977 --> 00:13:23.959 Duke: wrong is, that's a strong word, to some people it's 00:13:23.959 --> 00:13:26.169 super, super natural, right? 00:13:26.319 --> 00:13:28.569 Not supernatural, but extra natural. 00:13:29.424 --> 00:13:29.994 You know what I mean? 00:13:31.164 --> 00:13:31.434 Tim: Yeah. 00:13:31.434 --> 00:13:31.494 Yeah. 00:13:31.674 --> 00:13:32.784 CJ: Supernatural. 00:13:32.844 --> 00:13:33.234 Duke: yeah. 00:13:33.414 --> 00:13:35.064 To some people they just work that way. 00:13:35.064 --> 00:13:38.124 They're like, oh, my gut says I should talk to John and I'll call John. 00:13:38.424 --> 00:13:40.861 So to force myself to do it. 00:13:41.011 --> 00:13:44.374 I just recognized that my network has stuff that I want. 00:13:45.034 --> 00:13:48.304 Nothing made that more clear than when I started doing a little bit of recruiting. 00:13:48.460 --> 00:13:50.950 You have to recognize that there's value to it in the first place. 00:13:50.950 --> 00:13:53.070 And I think we spent the first 20 minutes going over that. 00:13:53.070 --> 00:13:54.180 Yes, it is valuable. 00:13:54.436 --> 00:13:58.456 so the next thing you have to realize is that there's entropy in the universe and 00:13:58.456 --> 00:14:00.766 nothing self sustains without energy. 00:14:01.313 --> 00:14:01.673 Tim: Yeah. 00:14:02.138 --> 00:14:04.928 Duke: your life, your decisions, what you do, that's just a function 00:14:04.958 --> 00:14:07.118 of your decisions about energy. 00:14:07.328 --> 00:14:11.468 And so let's pour that energy into the network a bit. 00:14:11.678 --> 00:14:16.218 And I think where this doesn't happen naturally, just need to embrace the 00:14:16.368 --> 00:14:19.668 other ways of thinking that they're good at and create a system for it. 00:14:19.848 --> 00:14:22.038 So if you guys don't mind, I'd like to just run through the system, 00:14:22.638 --> 00:14:22.968 Tim: Yeah. 00:14:23.178 --> 00:14:25.998 Duke: Just imagine like, put my network maintenance? 00:14:26.405 --> 00:14:28.565 What would that look like in Flow Designer in ServiceNow? 00:14:29.010 --> 00:14:35.498 Okay, so step one of the network maintenance, , flow is to. 00:14:35.618 --> 00:14:39.128 Generate the list of people that you are going to maintain this interval. 00:14:39.128 --> 00:14:40.538 Weekly or monthly, okay? 00:14:40.901 --> 00:14:44.561 every week or month, generate a list of people that you want to sustain, 00:14:45.051 --> 00:14:47.991 by asking who are you thankful for? 00:14:48.315 --> 00:14:51.045 you know, I had a conversation with Jace the other day about an idea that I was 00:14:51.045 --> 00:14:55.335 kicking around and, you know, Jace audited showed me where my blind spots were. 00:14:55.335 --> 00:14:57.555 So I like, oh, I really appreciate Jace. 00:14:57.555 --> 00:14:58.635 I'm thankful for that. 00:14:58.830 --> 00:15:01.590 CJ: Man, I haven't that brings, I mean, I haven't talked to Jason in a minute. 00:15:01.590 --> 00:15:03.005 I need to reconnect with him. 00:15:03.495 --> 00:15:05.565 Duke: every, everybody should talk to Jace. 00:15:05.895 --> 00:15:08.055 LinkedIn is gonna be, we'll put his LinkedIn in, we'll put his 00:15:08.055 --> 00:15:09.255 LinkedIn in the description below. 00:15:09.255 --> 00:15:10.395 Everybody say hi to Jace. 00:15:10.875 --> 00:15:13.665 . The second thing , this might be a little bit more specific, but who did 00:15:13.665 --> 00:15:18.405 you have the most impactful discussions with in the last 60 to 90 days? 00:15:18.701 --> 00:15:21.371 And then lastly, who pops into your head by instinct? 00:15:21.431 --> 00:15:25.891 With those three, you should have a list of at least four or five people. 00:15:25.981 --> 00:15:28.198 It doesn't have to be dozens. 00:15:28.198 --> 00:15:29.848 It doesn't, it certainly doesn't have to be hundreds. 00:15:29.998 --> 00:15:33.128 It's just something, Put some water in that garden. 00:15:33.308 --> 00:15:34.778 Any questions about that so far? 00:15:35.211 --> 00:15:35.871 CJ: No. 00:15:35.871 --> 00:15:39.501 I will say that this is starting to sound like a custom app, but, uh, 00:15:41.301 --> 00:15:41.871 Duke: It could be. 00:15:41.871 --> 00:15:45.501 I mean, if it helps anything, it helps, right? 00:15:45.591 --> 00:15:45.981 Um, 00:15:46.626 --> 00:15:49.176 Tim: I'll just say I totally agree that everyone should talk to Jace. 00:15:49.266 --> 00:15:52.656 I talk to him almost every day since I hired him and can confirm 00:15:52.656 --> 00:15:53.646 it is thoroughly worth it. 00:15:55.821 --> 00:15:57.291 Duke: Now we know where Chase is working. 00:15:57.346 --> 00:15:57.636 CJ: nice. 00:15:59.681 --> 00:16:03.941 , Duke: so now you have your array of people in your network that you need 00:16:03.941 --> 00:16:09.791 to sustain, So for each of the items in the array, , you have a list of options. 00:16:09.791 --> 00:16:12.401 Just think of it as like a, a la carte menu of actions to take. 00:16:12.401 --> 00:16:15.851 So, number one, ask them how they've been, and if you think 00:16:15.851 --> 00:16:17.471 this is too simple to matter. 00:16:17.866 --> 00:16:22.636 , there's this saying, I don't know who coined it, but every human dies twice. 00:16:23.100 --> 00:16:26.520 There's the time that they die, and then there's the last time 00:16:26.520 --> 00:16:28.140 anyone says their name out loud. 00:16:28.426 --> 00:16:31.336 And I think that's super dark, but, but I think all of us have 00:16:31.336 --> 00:16:32.896 some vague sense of this, right? 00:16:32.896 --> 00:16:35.836 And so anytime somebody just says, Hey, how you doing? 00:16:36.076 --> 00:16:36.736 Nothing else. 00:16:36.736 --> 00:16:37.816 Just how you doing? 00:16:37.996 --> 00:16:41.386 the universe is telling you, Hey man, you matter to somebody. 00:16:41.911 --> 00:16:44.911 Somebody took their time to come out and just say, how, like, how are you 00:16:45.121 --> 00:16:47.281 in a way that invites a response? 00:16:47.650 --> 00:16:49.375 it isn't a trivial thing. 00:16:49.555 --> 00:16:53.335 It does matter, especially if you are, Authentic about it. 00:16:53.966 --> 00:16:55.856 CJ: definitely gotta be authentic about it, right? 00:16:55.906 --> 00:16:57.406 , I know there are folks who aren't. 00:16:57.406 --> 00:16:58.906 And there are a lot of people who can fake it. 00:16:59.070 --> 00:17:01.740 And you probably know folks who are faking it and you don't 00:17:01.740 --> 00:17:02.610 know that they're faking it. 00:17:02.610 --> 00:17:03.240 But that's fine. 00:17:03.578 --> 00:17:07.791 Looking at this in a structured way allows us to break down the actions, 00:17:07.791 --> 00:17:11.521 ? That go into, , creating these relationships, forming these bonds, 00:17:11.521 --> 00:17:13.381 , and then maintaining them over time. 00:17:13.381 --> 00:17:16.055 ? Because, all relationships require care and feeding. 00:17:16.055 --> 00:17:16.115 I. 00:17:16.443 --> 00:17:20.673 And it, it's funny duke, you talk about , who provides value in your life or , who 00:17:20.673 --> 00:17:24.313 you miss , when you haven't talked to 'em, there have been occasions, right? 00:17:24.313 --> 00:17:26.983 Like, look up, it's like, man, I haven't talked to Duke in a couple days. 00:17:27.163 --> 00:17:28.033 What the hell's going on? 00:17:28.033 --> 00:17:28.123 Right. 00:17:32.863 --> 00:17:33.223 You know? 00:17:33.223 --> 00:17:35.263 And so then I'll ping you like, what's going on, man? 00:17:36.853 --> 00:17:40.605 You know, and, and so, That becomes second nature. 00:17:40.605 --> 00:17:44.625 Now, what, what I will say is like I have a couple of, , good friends 00:17:44.625 --> 00:17:47.325 and it's really easy for me. 00:17:47.325 --> 00:17:50.220 after 2, 3, 4 days, I haven't talked to them like, what the hell? 00:17:51.130 --> 00:17:52.600 Reach out and be like, Hey, what's going on? 00:17:52.600 --> 00:17:54.160 Where you go , and that sort of thing. 00:17:54.160 --> 00:17:58.650 But that beat here, and I don't mean it as like a grade, but just like 00:17:58.650 --> 00:18:00.300 in kind of closeness to me, right? 00:18:00.540 --> 00:18:03.840 You know, the folks who I value, but probably don't talk to them every day. 00:18:04.126 --> 00:18:07.426 those relationships start to kind of get stale. 00:18:07.590 --> 00:18:11.305 And so remembering to keep them strong is a challenge. 00:18:11.908 --> 00:18:15.518 Duke: would it help if we actually go through some like, what do 00:18:15.518 --> 00:18:17.168 you actually say to the person? 00:18:17.297 --> 00:18:20.429 Is that gonna be helpful like maybe I've met you three times. 00:18:20.429 --> 00:18:22.049 I don't just message you and say, how are you? 00:18:22.319 --> 00:18:22.709 Right. 00:18:23.139 --> 00:18:23.259 CJ: I. 00:18:23.279 --> 00:18:23.699 Duke: Uh, 00:18:24.434 --> 00:18:24.769 Tim: Yeah, I. 00:18:26.774 --> 00:18:30.884 it is really difficult to reopen those lines of communication. 00:18:30.884 --> 00:18:34.495 I mean, I have a hard time remembering all the people I bump into and 00:18:34.495 --> 00:18:35.875 who I've talked to and all that. 00:18:35.875 --> 00:18:38.035 , on a personal level, I just need to get better about that. 00:18:38.035 --> 00:18:40.495 I need to treat that as important in my life. 00:18:40.538 --> 00:18:41.828 that's just a thing I need to do, 00:18:42.038 --> 00:18:42.338 but. 00:18:42.703 --> 00:18:45.771 Duke: it, it's just a subsystem, And especially if you're a 00:18:45.771 --> 00:18:48.681 programmer or you're data oriented, just build a structure in your 00:18:48.681 --> 00:18:50.751 head, like properties of people. 00:18:50.751 --> 00:18:54.355 So, I know Corey is married, I know he is got two kids. 00:18:54.355 --> 00:18:56.305 They're roughly the same age as my kids. 00:18:56.595 --> 00:18:57.435 You know what I mean? 00:18:57.531 --> 00:19:00.501 I know that, his wife had that terrible thing happen. 00:19:00.545 --> 00:19:03.035 she was in the hospital for a couple, a few years back. 00:19:03.185 --> 00:19:06.751 You just start tagging these properties to the people that, you 00:19:06.751 --> 00:19:10.951 know, if you primarily chat with them over LinkedIn, that's fantastic. 00:19:10.951 --> 00:19:12.661 'cause there's your message history right there. 00:19:13.711 --> 00:19:13.921 And 00:19:13.926 --> 00:19:17.011 so you kind of like, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're collecting 00:19:17.011 --> 00:19:20.641 facts about people and things that you've talked about, so you can 00:19:20.641 --> 00:19:23.491 use that as the excuse to go back. 00:19:23.863 --> 00:19:26.113 Tim: I'm really bad at remembering stuff like that. 00:19:26.113 --> 00:19:29.443 I think I need to start by maybe writing it down or something. 00:19:29.580 --> 00:19:34.320 I remember Chuck Tomasi an episode of the ServiceNow developer podcast something 00:19:34.320 --> 00:19:37.770 like, after I, I take a selfie with somebody, I meet them, and then as soon 00:19:37.770 --> 00:19:41.280 as we part ways, I immediately write down everything I can remember and 00:19:41.280 --> 00:19:42.570 associated with our selfie together. 00:19:42.773 --> 00:19:43.943 and I was like, that's a pretty clever idea. 00:19:43.943 --> 00:19:45.383 And then I promptly did not do that. 00:19:45.713 --> 00:19:46.493 Um, and, 00:19:48.023 --> 00:19:48.313 Duke: Yeah. 00:19:48.318 --> 00:19:48.368 Yeah. 00:19:49.163 --> 00:19:52.396 Tim: but , I think that having some mechanism for that, at least for me, for 00:19:52.396 --> 00:19:54.466 people like me, I think that's important. 00:19:54.656 --> 00:19:57.446 I would see ads for, smart glasses. 00:19:57.526 --> 00:20:01.006 One day you'll just look at a person and information about them 00:20:01.126 --> 00:20:03.886 will come up in your field of view, and they won't even know that you 00:20:03.886 --> 00:20:05.266 have no idea who the hell they are. 00:20:05.566 --> 00:20:06.736 And I'm like, these are made for me. 00:20:06.736 --> 00:20:08.596 I need the future to be here immediately. 00:20:08.776 --> 00:20:09.886 Duke: man, be careful. 00:20:09.941 --> 00:20:10.361 Be careful. 00:20:10.770 --> 00:20:14.760 I look forward to that day too, but make sure you get your practice in so that 00:20:14.760 --> 00:20:16.680 you're authentic when the time comes. 00:20:17.001 --> 00:20:20.778 Like if you're the person that's gonna like read the information and 00:20:20.778 --> 00:20:24.678 then say it back to the person, like, congratulations on the new job, Jeff. 00:20:24.858 --> 00:20:27.408 they will see your eyes going back and forth under your glasses. 00:20:27.708 --> 00:20:29.898 Tim: Yeah, I, I feel like I'm 00:20:29.898 --> 00:20:31.998 the sort of person, like, I just need a reminder. 00:20:32.088 --> 00:20:35.058 Tell you what, , if you're listening to this and you bump into me and acknowledge 00:20:35.118 --> 00:20:38.558 2025, if we've met before and you bump into me again and just be like, hi, here's 00:20:38.558 --> 00:20:39.848 my name, here's what we talked about. 00:20:39.908 --> 00:20:40.598 I'll remember you. 00:20:40.973 --> 00:20:43.583 I won't remember your face, but I'll remember our conversation. 00:20:43.933 --> 00:20:47.588 Duke: That's a great strategy of just a cold opener too. 00:20:47.638 --> 00:20:51.948 If you know them but you're not sure, they know you reintroduce yourself. 00:20:52.323 --> 00:20:59.100 There's absolutely zero shame, no loss of face, and both parties feel even better if 00:20:59.100 --> 00:21:01.936 the, approached party does recognize you. 00:21:02.296 --> 00:21:03.466 If they don't, so what? 00:21:03.536 --> 00:21:04.016 Who cares? 00:21:04.016 --> 00:21:07.316 You're still establishing network connection, but maybe they do recognize 00:21:07.316 --> 00:21:08.726 you and how great would that feel? 00:21:09.005 --> 00:21:10.925 CJ: Let me tell you why that's such a cool hack. 00:21:11.045 --> 00:21:14.105 You might recognize somebody's face, know that you had a conversation with 00:21:14.105 --> 00:21:16.175 them, but cannot remember their name. 00:21:16.505 --> 00:21:20.075 So when you walk up to them and you reintroduce yourself, they 00:21:20.075 --> 00:21:22.475 will reintroduce themselves, right? 00:21:22.475 --> 00:21:26.885 And now you've got their name and you don't feel awkward, and you can 00:21:26.885 --> 00:21:29.280 have a conversation, pick up where you left off, et cetera, et cetera. 00:21:29.685 --> 00:21:33.455 , one of the things that being a politician comes in handy for, , is that I now 00:21:33.455 --> 00:21:36.635 have no shame just reintroducing myself to people I already know. 00:21:37.975 --> 00:21:39.230 Duke: Oh, and names too. 00:21:39.362 --> 00:21:42.482 Say their name as many times as you can in the sentence. 00:21:42.512 --> 00:21:45.662 If you're asking them questions during your conversation, end the question 00:21:45.662 --> 00:21:48.002 with their name every single time. 00:21:48.002 --> 00:21:49.682 First of all, nobody gets tired of hearing their name, 00:21:49.827 --> 00:21:50.812 CJ: This is true. 00:21:51.052 --> 00:21:53.975 Duke: But it also just, builds that neural pathway too, right? 00:21:53.975 --> 00:21:56.375 You see in their face, you're shaking their hand, you're talking about stuff. 00:21:56.585 --> 00:21:59.435 You're accumulating all that info, and every time you're stamping it with 00:21:59.435 --> 00:22:01.745 their name, say their name, as many. 00:22:02.300 --> 00:22:03.050 Times you can't. 00:22:03.050 --> 00:22:05.570 So we still gotta get through the rest of the, flow here. 00:22:05.620 --> 00:22:06.670 do you mind if I return to that? 00:22:07.390 --> 00:22:07.690 Tim: go for 00:22:07.750 --> 00:22:08.230 Duke: Alright, cool. 00:22:08.230 --> 00:22:11.590 So we've already talked about generating a list of, who do we sustain 00:22:11.590 --> 00:22:13.450 our network with at each interval. 00:22:13.600 --> 00:22:16.150 And then for each of those people we've we're asking them how they've 00:22:16.150 --> 00:22:20.553 been, two other strategies, ask them an intelligent question about their 00:22:20.553 --> 00:22:24.183 domain, especially if it's germane is something you're doing right now. 00:22:24.477 --> 00:22:28.257 I wonder how many friends Nathan Firth has made because he just answered questions 00:22:28.257 --> 00:22:30.170 about service portal for all those years. 00:22:30.608 --> 00:22:35.318 Tim: Yeah, and he was the guy for it too, like the only one for a long time. 00:22:35.753 --> 00:22:39.683 Duke: It goes back to our, episode one where we were talking about when somebody 00:22:39.683 --> 00:22:43.523 answers a question for you, it's an investment, It's their investment in you. 00:22:43.523 --> 00:22:47.633 They want you to succeed, it's good to ask people questions as long as they're 00:22:47.633 --> 00:22:49.463 intelligent, as long as you've shown some. 00:22:49.928 --> 00:22:51.488 Groundwork beforehand. 00:22:51.698 --> 00:22:55.568 Don't just like pounce on a stranger and just, Hey, I haven't tried anything. 00:22:55.568 --> 00:22:56.588 What's the answer to this question? 00:22:58.113 --> 00:22:58.473 CJ: I do. 00:22:58.583 --> 00:22:59.453 Tim: I hate that. 00:23:01.428 --> 00:23:05.642 , and maybe we should talk a little bit too, counter examples, we're talking 00:23:05.642 --> 00:23:09.092 a lot about things that are good to do, things to consider and things to make 00:23:09.092 --> 00:23:10.592 sure that you're, hitting the mark on. 00:23:10.982 --> 00:23:13.412 But maybe we should talk about some things like, Hey, just so 00:23:13.412 --> 00:23:16.262 you know, this is not networking. 00:23:16.352 --> 00:23:20.102 If you just slide into my BMS and demand answers of me, you 00:23:20.102 --> 00:23:21.182 have not networked with me. 00:23:21.182 --> 00:23:22.262 You have annoyed me. 00:23:22.262 --> 00:23:25.052 I will remember your name only because you have annoyed me. 00:23:25.352 --> 00:23:26.312 That's not the way to be. 00:23:27.188 --> 00:23:28.088 Duke: going back to the flow. 00:23:28.124 --> 00:23:31.574 we have ask how they've been, ask an intelligent question about their domain. 00:23:31.724 --> 00:23:32.084 Okay. 00:23:32.174 --> 00:23:33.374 This is super important. 00:23:33.428 --> 00:23:37.764 Let them know how they've impacted you over time. 00:23:38.018 --> 00:23:41.748 if you do this networking thing that we said, go talk to Bob Ask him a 00:23:41.748 --> 00:23:45.348 question about his domain, but then like a week later, go back to Bob 00:23:45.348 --> 00:23:48.078 and say, I just wanted to let you know that thing worked out great. 00:23:48.254 --> 00:23:50.684 Plus I found this other thing out that you might want to know. 00:23:51.376 --> 00:23:51.696 CJ: Absolutely. 00:23:52.031 --> 00:23:55.051 Tim: sharing knowledge is, always great advice. 00:23:55.151 --> 00:23:58.441 , , if I have one skill when it comes to networking it is knowledge sharing. 00:23:58.601 --> 00:24:00.461 I don't know how to, hi, how are you? 00:24:00.671 --> 00:24:02.801 I don't know how to ask about your kid. 00:24:02.801 --> 00:24:05.511 Like, I, I literally know how, but I'm not, good at it. 00:24:05.824 --> 00:24:09.184 and remembering to do it at prioritizing it a lot of time I remember like, 00:24:09.424 --> 00:24:12.484 I'll get all the way to the end of a three hour long conversation. 00:24:12.484 --> 00:24:17.164 We've had drinks, we've had food, we've, tossed the ball around, I 00:24:17.164 --> 00:24:18.604 don't know, whatever normal people do. 00:24:18.964 --> 00:24:21.424 And then all the way at the end when we're like, okay, bye, see ya. 00:24:21.424 --> 00:24:23.104 And I get 10 steps away and I go. 00:24:23.183 --> 00:24:25.103 Wait a minute, I never asked that person's name. 00:24:25.193 --> 00:24:27.683 I never even asked What the hell's the matter with me? 00:24:28.313 --> 00:24:28.553 You know? 00:24:28.553 --> 00:24:32.346 But if I do have one skill, it's sharing knowledge, which is, I will come at you 00:24:32.403 --> 00:24:35.336 with my nerd all the way out, every time. 00:24:35.336 --> 00:24:36.656 'cause it's the only way I know how to be. 00:24:37.166 --> 00:24:40.699 And for some people, namely people who don't care, that's 00:24:40.699 --> 00:24:42.109 probably not the best approach. 00:24:42.409 --> 00:24:45.799 But for my people, for the people who I. 00:24:46.144 --> 00:24:50.338 Am invested in, and who are likely to invest in me. 00:24:50.758 --> 00:24:52.556 That's seems to be the right approach. 00:24:53.103 --> 00:24:56.913 CJ: I think the people who are worth, , having in your network are people 00:24:56.913 --> 00:24:59.163 who will take you as you are, right? 00:24:59.193 --> 00:25:03.243 Whether, rather than, , imposing some standard that they have upon you. 00:25:03.733 --> 00:25:06.703 And you know, if you and I talk for three hours and you don't 00:25:06.703 --> 00:25:08.083 ask me about my kids, it's cool. 00:25:08.113 --> 00:25:12.013 We'll talk again and you don't, you'll ask me then maybe, or who, who knows, right? 00:25:12.013 --> 00:25:13.273 We had a three hour conversation. 00:25:13.273 --> 00:25:17.447 It was a rich conversation if it went three hours, I think you care. 00:25:18.547 --> 00:25:18.837 Tim: Yeah. 00:25:19.390 --> 00:25:22.300 CJ: And just because you didn't ask that one question, doesn't 00:25:22.300 --> 00:25:23.800 mean that you care any less. 00:25:23.990 --> 00:25:27.247 And so I think, a little bit of, letting yourself off the hook. 00:25:27.247 --> 00:25:30.817 when you have those, moments and when you walk away and you think, oh, what, 00:25:30.907 --> 00:25:34.593 why didn't I, or didn't I, I should have said, and you feel that little 00:25:34.593 --> 00:25:36.700 bit of cringe, that you messed up. 00:25:36.863 --> 00:25:40.673 You forget the fact that you actually were successful for three hours, 00:25:40.693 --> 00:25:44.143 before you walked away and have five seconds of, damn, I, I messed up. 00:25:44.530 --> 00:25:48.633 Tim: it's honestly really good to hear that because, I, Beat myself up 00:25:48.633 --> 00:25:50.463 over that kind of stuff quite a lot. 00:25:50.493 --> 00:25:53.733 When I'm imagining the perspective of other people, I spend so much 00:25:53.733 --> 00:25:56.763 time imagining the worst version of myself through their eyes. 00:25:57.273 --> 00:26:00.947 And when I had that realization, like, shit, I had asked that guy's 00:26:00.947 --> 00:26:06.993 name, it hits me in the form of I'm imagining that person walking away, 00:26:07.143 --> 00:26:08.613 getting a few steps away and going. 00:26:08.868 --> 00:26:11.328 That jerk didn't even ask my name. 00:26:11.532 --> 00:26:13.242 What a dingus. 00:26:13.272 --> 00:26:13.632 You know? 00:26:14.717 --> 00:26:15.227 Duke: It's, 00:26:15.672 --> 00:26:15.732 Tim: It 00:26:15.857 --> 00:26:20.487 Duke: I, I, I think it takes a special kind of innate paranoia 00:26:20.608 --> 00:26:25.314 to attribute malice where real malice hasn't been shown. 00:26:26.224 --> 00:26:27.004 You understand what I mean? 00:26:27.004 --> 00:26:27.304 Like 00:26:27.574 --> 00:26:27.904 that? 00:26:28.114 --> 00:26:28.384 Yeah. 00:26:28.384 --> 00:26:31.534 That person didn't ask my name or he didn't remember my name. 00:26:31.619 --> 00:26:32.939 that's not malice. 00:26:33.732 --> 00:26:36.342 First of all, the beating yourself up about it , doesn't 00:26:36.342 --> 00:26:37.692 gain you anything, right? 00:26:38.442 --> 00:26:43.042 It, doesn't reverse time and it sabotages your mental, 00:26:43.042 --> 00:26:44.932 state for the next interaction. 00:26:44.932 --> 00:26:47.602 Like, that person walked away, you forgot their name, or you 00:26:47.602 --> 00:26:49.852 didn't, you didn't remember their name or you didn't ask their name. 00:26:50.032 --> 00:26:50.422 Great. 00:26:50.572 --> 00:26:53.662 Well, if you're beating yourself up when the next person comes to you, 00:26:53.992 --> 00:26:56.782 what do you think the odds are that you're gonna have a good interaction? 00:26:57.877 --> 00:27:01.267 Tim: And there's, there's a fine line, I think, especially for that 00:27:01.267 --> 00:27:03.007 sort of self-talk perspective. 00:27:03.337 --> 00:27:07.144 A fine line between, I meshed up, I did poorly. 00:27:07.277 --> 00:27:08.177 That sucked. 00:27:08.267 --> 00:27:10.587 Versus I could have done better. 00:27:11.162 --> 00:27:12.812 I'll try to remember that for next time. 00:27:12.962 --> 00:27:16.202 It feels like a fine line and it's really easy to get stuck 00:27:16.202 --> 00:27:17.312 in that negative self-talk. 00:27:17.312 --> 00:27:18.152 , that, you're right. 00:27:18.152 --> 00:27:19.772 It, sabotages you for the future. 00:27:20.432 --> 00:27:21.919 CJ: Tim, I'll double down on that, right? 00:27:21.919 --> 00:27:24.529 you said this is the right thing that I should have done, but I think what you're 00:27:24.529 --> 00:27:29.029 really saying to yourself is, this is the perfect thing that I should have done. 00:27:29.242 --> 00:27:30.832 This is right. 00:27:31.597 --> 00:27:34.387 Tim: it's, it's like when you have a, somebody is talking smack about 00:27:34.387 --> 00:27:36.817 you and , you come up with a perfect comeback on the drive home, right? 00:27:36.817 --> 00:27:37.177 It's like that. 00:27:40.477 --> 00:27:40.697 CJ: Yes. 00:27:40.727 --> 00:27:41.217 Exactly. 00:27:41.247 --> 00:27:41.537 That, 00:27:41.884 --> 00:27:45.674 , at the end of the day, I think good enough is often good enough. 00:27:46.079 --> 00:27:47.039 Duke: Oh, yeah, progress. 00:27:47.039 --> 00:27:48.149 Not perfection too, right? 00:27:48.254 --> 00:27:49.064 CJ: Absolutely. 00:27:49.669 --> 00:27:52.182 Duke: So for everybody else out there who is not Tim, there's 00:27:52.182 --> 00:27:53.802 a very important lesson here. 00:27:54.162 --> 00:27:58.272 Tim being the tremendous content contributor as he is 00:27:58.272 --> 00:28:00.972 and has a natural gravity, well. 00:28:01.917 --> 00:28:03.117 Of network around him. 00:28:03.117 --> 00:28:03.237 Right. 00:28:03.237 --> 00:28:04.317 He doesn't even have to try. 00:28:04.437 --> 00:28:08.114 'cause so many people love what Tim's done, That they want to be in his network. 00:28:08.114 --> 00:28:09.884 So he's got all that gravity in the world. 00:28:10.064 --> 00:28:14.347 And even Tim is worried sometimes that he might not come off perfectly. 00:28:15.052 --> 00:28:16.462 Tim: Oh, quite often, yeah. 00:28:17.002 --> 00:28:19.612 If you're in the same boat as me, you're in good company or bad 00:28:19.612 --> 00:28:21.052 company, depending on how you like my company. 00:28:21.587 --> 00:28:23.987 Duke: You're not gonna hit all of your interactions perfectly. 00:28:24.167 --> 00:28:26.927 It's not every interaction's gonna come away with, wow, that 00:28:26.927 --> 00:28:28.637 was thoroughly super awesome. 00:28:28.799 --> 00:28:29.249 it's okay. 00:28:29.249 --> 00:28:31.289 Now that you acknowledge it, you can just move on. 00:28:31.392 --> 00:28:32.112 Go to the next one. 00:28:32.561 --> 00:28:32.851 Tim: Yeah. 00:28:33.112 --> 00:28:33.322 Duke: Okay. 00:28:33.322 --> 00:28:35.752 We got just a couple more in the workflow. 00:28:36.082 --> 00:28:40.019 So now that we know how to generate our list the things that we can do for each 00:28:40.019 --> 00:28:44.914 of them, then Every interval refine your reconnection timeline, Tim gave 00:28:44.914 --> 00:28:49.054 me the answer to a question, what would be the best time to get back to him? 00:28:49.054 --> 00:28:51.814 Like, I'm gonna try out what he said and then I'm gonna tell him 00:28:51.814 --> 00:28:53.194 that it was valuable to me or not. 00:28:53.194 --> 00:28:53.464 Right? 00:28:53.464 --> 00:28:55.984 So am I thinking days, week, months. 00:28:56.207 --> 00:28:58.367 And then you can put that in a little Excel sheet or your little 00:28:58.367 --> 00:29:01.307 private task on your VBS and ServiceNow, however you want to do it. 00:29:02.057 --> 00:29:04.907 But now you throw something into the future mentally for when you 00:29:04.907 --> 00:29:06.227 want to contact that person again. 00:29:07.037 --> 00:29:10.367 And then lastly, just recognize it's all a heuristic anyway, right? 00:29:10.367 --> 00:29:15.061 This is not a super concise, accurate system is just meant 00:29:15.061 --> 00:29:16.951 to roll with the punches a bit. 00:29:17.401 --> 00:29:20.191 And so if you have the opportunity to talk to somebody earlier 00:29:20.191 --> 00:29:21.601 than the next interval, take it. 00:29:22.060 --> 00:29:25.680 , CJ: I agree with you, if I help someone and it helps you, And you wanna let me 00:29:25.680 --> 00:29:30.460 know that it helps you, Any asynchronous, communications, connection that we have. 00:29:30.865 --> 00:29:33.055 Feel free to use it at whatever time of day. 00:29:33.055 --> 00:29:36.295 Like if you send me a LinkedIn message at two in the morning, I don't care. 00:29:36.295 --> 00:29:36.865 I'm sleep. 00:29:37.005 --> 00:29:38.115 But I will see it when I get up. 00:29:39.000 --> 00:29:39.350 Duke: Right. 00:29:39.525 --> 00:29:43.375 CJ: feel like, that you gotta wait we've already connected, I helped you out, 00:29:43.375 --> 00:29:47.335 like you asked me, you know, for a thing, or maybe you didn't, and I offered, and 00:29:47.335 --> 00:29:49.945 now we already have that connection and yeah, I wanna know how it turns out. 00:29:49.945 --> 00:29:51.415 Of course, I wanna know how it turns out. 00:29:51.565 --> 00:29:54.505 Never feel that if somebody's offering you help, that , they 00:29:54.505 --> 00:29:55.825 don't wanna know how it turns out. 00:29:55.945 --> 00:29:57.955 They absolutely wanna know. 00:29:58.615 --> 00:29:59.605 Duke: See the last episode. 00:29:59.605 --> 00:30:00.655 It's an investment. 00:30:00.715 --> 00:30:03.895 I have put ener, I've put energy into you, right? 00:30:03.895 --> 00:30:07.525 I want the warm fuzzies that that energy was used for something. 00:30:08.110 --> 00:30:09.010 CJ: absolutely. 00:30:10.615 --> 00:30:10.895 Absolutely. 00:30:11.125 --> 00:30:16.292 Tim: And, and that everybody, I assume loves that feeling like knowing that 00:30:16.292 --> 00:30:19.872 the stuff that you've done has been valuable to someone else, the notion 00:30:19.872 --> 00:30:23.472 that all of us are building on the shoulders of giants, the platform itself. 00:30:23.610 --> 00:30:27.240 , is built on the shoulders of giants and we build on it. 00:30:27.600 --> 00:30:30.540 everyone likes being someone's giant. 00:30:30.900 --> 00:30:31.320 Right. 00:30:31.600 --> 00:30:34.570 , I like being the person who made the thing that someone else used 00:30:34.570 --> 00:30:36.100 to do something even cooler. 00:30:36.220 --> 00:30:40.660 ' cause that's how the species progresses, you build something new based on something 00:30:40.660 --> 00:30:43.600 old and the something old becomes foundational to the something new. 00:30:43.600 --> 00:30:47.464 Whoever built the, something old doesn't go, ah, it's been usurped. 00:30:47.524 --> 00:30:47.824 No. 00:30:47.824 --> 00:30:48.609 They say, oh great. 00:30:48.609 --> 00:30:49.804 You're doing something really cool. 00:30:49.804 --> 00:30:52.924 I didn't even think of using the thing that I built for that, but that's neat. 00:30:53.914 --> 00:30:57.214 Duke: For me, I like being the hub on the network where it's 00:30:57.214 --> 00:31:00.884 like, Robert, do you know anybody that and insert the parameters. 00:31:00.884 --> 00:31:03.434 Oh yeah, I know this person, or I know somebody who knows somebody. 00:31:03.434 --> 00:31:05.684 And then getting those connections together. 00:31:05.684 --> 00:31:06.884 That's what I really love to do. 00:31:08.074 --> 00:31:12.314 , CJ: for me the motivation is kind of like, Hyman Roth and the Godfather, right? 00:31:12.314 --> 00:31:14.294 Like, I, I wanna make all my partners rich. 00:31:14.834 --> 00:31:19.514 And when you provide that level of value, you can only, see it, come back to you. 00:31:19.596 --> 00:31:22.416 and I don't provide it to ca it come back to me. 00:31:22.506 --> 00:31:23.616 It's just what I like to do. 00:31:23.946 --> 00:31:24.156 Right. 00:31:24.156 --> 00:31:27.453 I provide it because I'm paying it forward because a lot of people, provided 00:31:27.453 --> 00:31:29.356 that value for me when I needed it. 00:31:29.403 --> 00:31:34.133 but, , whatever I can do to help whoever I'm doing it and I'm actively seeking out 00:31:34.133 --> 00:31:36.322 those cases and trying to do that because. 00:31:36.399 --> 00:31:39.039 from the networking angle, right, it's gonna keep me top of mind. 00:31:39.039 --> 00:31:42.369 If there's ever anything that they can do for me that I might 00:31:42.369 --> 00:31:43.479 not even know that they can. 00:31:43.706 --> 00:31:47.486 That's the silent benefit of networking, And especially when you do it well 00:31:47.486 --> 00:31:50.906 is that you become, , top of mind for a lot of folks in your network. 00:31:51.155 --> 00:31:53.595 Tim: this is so common in, , popular media as well. 00:31:53.835 --> 00:31:57.565 I'm thinking of, , shows like my name is Earl , and loads of other things where 00:31:57.595 --> 00:32:00.380 there's like the central person who I. 00:32:00.380 --> 00:32:02.485 Is going around doing all these little things for people, and it's 00:32:02.485 --> 00:32:05.808 all these different people and, every episode they interact with some person 00:32:05.808 --> 00:32:06.948 and they help them out in some way. 00:32:06.987 --> 00:32:11.097 And one day they need something and there's the score rises and there's this 00:32:11.097 --> 00:32:14.277 wonderful moment where everyone comes together to help out this person and 00:32:14.277 --> 00:32:19.023 they realize, oh, hey, I have friends, I have people at my back helping me out. 00:32:19.108 --> 00:32:24.562 Too, because I've been so generous with them, I now have that same in return that 00:32:24.562 --> 00:32:27.732 just popped into my head and I realized like that can be what networking is. 00:32:28.447 --> 00:32:32.197 Duke: We went over this in the first episode as well, but there's no bigger 00:32:32.197 --> 00:32:36.570 reason to network than the employment opportunities that comes with it because 00:32:36.750 --> 00:32:42.520 I guarantee you, every time a company decides, okay, add one more person to 00:32:42.520 --> 00:32:47.080 the ServiceNow team, the very first thing they're doing is going to their network. 00:32:47.603 --> 00:32:49.733 If I'm the hiring manager, I'm going to my network. 00:32:49.733 --> 00:32:51.953 If I don't have a strong ServiceNow network, I'm going 00:32:51.953 --> 00:32:53.213 to my other people's networks. 00:32:53.213 --> 00:32:56.620 I'm going to my partners and asking them that is the way the world works. 00:32:56.620 --> 00:32:57.370 You don't have to like it. 00:32:57.775 --> 00:32:59.545 It's how, but it's how it works. 00:32:59.725 --> 00:33:01.450 CJ: Well, yeah, I mean, absolutely. 00:33:02.051 --> 00:33:03.701 Duke: we're gonna take a little bit of a side step. 00:33:03.701 --> 00:33:06.731 We know knowledge is coming up in gosh, like what a week? 00:33:07.091 --> 00:33:07.691 It's crazy. 00:33:07.958 --> 00:33:10.898 , for those of you, again, who this doesn't come naturally for, we wanted to have 00:33:11.108 --> 00:33:14.858 a quick rundown of non-verbal cues. 00:33:15.005 --> 00:33:18.605 Things that can signal you that it's okay to talk. 00:33:18.935 --> 00:33:22.145 Okay to go up and be bold and introduce yourself signals 00:33:22.145 --> 00:33:24.065 where it's not okay to talk. 00:33:24.085 --> 00:33:27.055 or maybe that you, not that you've out worn your welcome, 00:33:27.055 --> 00:33:27.925 but it's time to move on. 00:33:28.075 --> 00:33:30.505 and then also how to give a signal to it's time to move on. 00:33:30.505 --> 00:33:32.651 So let's start talking about signal hacks. 00:33:32.965 --> 00:33:36.805 CJ: You should start on this one, duke, because man, I don't, I don't know. 00:33:37.455 --> 00:33:43.203 Duke: Okay, so the easiest one is people that you know that aren't doing 00:33:43.203 --> 00:33:46.533 anything, they're by themselves, they're not on their phone. 00:33:46.800 --> 00:33:50.460 maybe they're dipping into a snack or having a coffee or just walking somewhere. 00:33:50.610 --> 00:33:51.000 Okay? 00:33:51.030 --> 00:33:54.132 That is a perfect cold, open opportunity. 00:33:54.620 --> 00:33:56.690 Hey, I haven't seen you in X. 00:33:57.140 --> 00:33:59.270 Or, Hey, where are you off to? 00:33:59.497 --> 00:34:01.147 what do you got planned for the afternoon? 00:34:01.147 --> 00:34:05.017 knowledge content wise, or, Hey, what did you think about that keynote? 00:34:05.371 --> 00:34:09.446 that's the easiest another opportunity to open is, after sessions. 00:34:09.845 --> 00:34:10.685 , and this is the key here. 00:34:10.685 --> 00:34:14.123 So people you don't know, how, is it okay to talk to people you don't know 00:34:14.344 --> 00:34:15.724 if you make eye contact with them? 00:34:16.167 --> 00:34:17.577 It happens accidentally all the time. 00:34:17.577 --> 00:34:20.547 You're scanning the crowd, you make eye contact with somebody. 00:34:20.547 --> 00:34:22.107 You're within two or three arms. 00:34:22.167 --> 00:34:24.237 Reach of them as fast as you can. 00:34:24.237 --> 00:34:25.497 Hey, what did you think about that? 00:34:26.154 --> 00:34:30.233 Tim: I especially like the, distance calculation of like, how long of 00:34:30.233 --> 00:34:32.423 a walk is it to get like you make, 00:34:32.858 --> 00:34:33.078 Duke: Yes. 00:34:33.083 --> 00:34:36.253 Yeah, they gotta be within, they gotta be within conversational range, which 00:34:36.253 --> 00:34:38.023 I'll say, I'll even revise my estimate. 00:34:38.203 --> 00:34:40.273 I would say like two arm lengths. 00:34:41.049 --> 00:34:44.463 Tim: Because if if I make eye contact with someone all the way across the conference 00:34:44.463 --> 00:34:47.386 hall and they start walking towards me, I'm like, oh my God, what do I do? 00:34:47.703 --> 00:34:49.053 I have too much time to think about it. 00:34:52.248 --> 00:34:52.578 CJ: Just 00:34:52.673 --> 00:34:56.568 Duke: You just, you just crank up the creed and just with arms, arms wide open. 00:35:00.588 --> 00:35:02.148 Just get that guitar like going on. 00:35:02.148 --> 00:35:02.838 That's what you do. 00:35:03.048 --> 00:35:03.828 No, that's not what you do. 00:35:03.828 --> 00:35:04.038 That's. 00:35:06.288 --> 00:35:06.528 CJ: yeah. 00:35:06.528 --> 00:35:07.368 I mean, I don't know. 00:35:07.368 --> 00:35:10.208 You know, sometimes there's a little bit of novelty in being awkward. 00:35:10.808 --> 00:35:11.228 Right? 00:35:11.408 --> 00:35:13.358 Duke: There is, especially if you're honest about it. 00:35:13.793 --> 00:35:14.963 CJ: Yeah, absolutely. 00:35:15.133 --> 00:35:18.453 And so, to that end I say also, you should be yourself, right? 00:35:18.453 --> 00:35:19.203 Like you shouldn't, no. 00:35:19.203 --> 00:35:24.243 I mean, there's also a, a limit to being awkward where it goes beyond 00:35:24.243 --> 00:35:26.264 making, other people uncomfortable. 00:35:26.264 --> 00:35:26.414 And 00:35:26.579 --> 00:35:27.989 Duke: Well, well, yeah. 00:35:27.989 --> 00:35:28.769 How do you know? 00:35:28.829 --> 00:35:29.489 How do you know? 00:35:29.519 --> 00:35:29.849 Right? 00:35:29.909 --> 00:35:30.209 Okay. 00:35:30.209 --> 00:35:34.859 So here, here's your signals, your nonverbal cues for it's time to move on. 00:35:34.949 --> 00:35:36.209 and not beat yourself up. 00:35:36.239 --> 00:35:37.319 It's just people are busy. 00:35:37.319 --> 00:35:38.819 People have other stuff they wanna do too. 00:35:38.849 --> 00:35:39.059 Okay? 00:35:39.059 --> 00:35:39.179 So I. 00:35:39.543 --> 00:35:40.413 it's hard to gauge that. 00:35:40.413 --> 00:35:45.106 So, number one, if they are looking around, you are talking to them and 00:35:45.106 --> 00:35:47.506 they're twisting their head, they're looking over their shoulders, they're 00:35:47.506 --> 00:35:50.056 craning their neck a bit, that's a signal that you gotta wrap up. 00:35:50.611 --> 00:35:51.061 CJ: Yeah. 00:35:51.301 --> 00:35:51.571 Yep. 00:35:51.736 --> 00:35:54.586 Duke: if they check their watch more than a couple times, they're 00:35:54.654 --> 00:35:57.774 trying to tell you without telling you that they have to move on. 00:35:57.774 --> 00:35:58.584 They have to go somewhere. 00:35:59.044 --> 00:36:01.804 , if they're angling their body away from you. 00:36:02.629 --> 00:36:02.919 CJ: Yeah. 00:36:02.989 --> 00:36:06.619 Duke: if your, if their shoulder is facing your chest, they are signaling 00:36:06.619 --> 00:36:08.089 that they need to leave or go somewhere. 00:36:08.336 --> 00:36:09.836 so keep an eye out for those. 00:36:11.171 --> 00:36:13.306 CJ: they say, well, all right, then. 00:36:13.946 --> 00:36:14.216 Duke: Yeah. 00:36:14.246 --> 00:36:15.176 Oh, that's a good one. 00:36:16.106 --> 00:36:16.646 If they say, well, 00:36:16.781 --> 00:36:17.951 Tim: just, even just the beginning. 00:36:18.221 --> 00:36:21.631 Well, yeah, you hear that well, and you, should be preparing. 00:36:21.751 --> 00:36:26.231 And by the way, don't take it as, I'm trying to end the conversation with you. 00:36:26.231 --> 00:36:29.951 Take it as I have to do something, or I would stick around and chat. 00:36:30.078 --> 00:36:31.998 personally, I've, learned to. 00:36:32.493 --> 00:36:35.404 Always assume everything in the best light. 00:36:35.794 --> 00:36:38.104 But I'll tell you what, there's a lot of value in that. 00:36:38.134 --> 00:36:41.088 If somebody comes up to me and , I'm just about to go do something, I gotta 00:36:41.088 --> 00:36:43.848 pee or whatever, and they start getting those signals they pick up on it. 00:36:44.358 --> 00:36:45.948 They give me that out. 00:36:46.668 --> 00:36:48.648 That's all you gotta do is give a person an out. 00:36:48.648 --> 00:36:51.108 You don't even have to necessarily end the conversation when you 00:36:51.108 --> 00:36:52.308 start getting those signals. 00:36:52.758 --> 00:36:55.278 You just gotta give that person an out that doesn't feel 00:36:55.278 --> 00:36:56.718 awkward for them to take you. 00:36:56.718 --> 00:36:59.508 Give them a non awkward out and they'll, if they take, they'll, they'll take 00:36:59.508 --> 00:37:04.308 it if they want to, but then the next time you see them, you are in, you're 00:37:04.308 --> 00:37:06.108 not introducing yourself anymore. 00:37:06.108 --> 00:37:07.338 Not from scratch, at least. 00:37:07.338 --> 00:37:07.488 Right. 00:37:08.058 --> 00:37:10.278 You might be like, Hey, it's you, how you been? 00:37:10.308 --> 00:37:13.728 The second time I see someone, the third time I see someone, it's not. 00:37:14.073 --> 00:37:16.773 Necessarily just the length of the interaction. 00:37:16.778 --> 00:37:20.403 It's the number of interactions you have, especially you space 'em apart. 00:37:20.703 --> 00:37:23.673 You're reinforcing like I exist, behold my face. 00:37:24.013 --> 00:37:26.749 And I'm realizing this as I'm, listening to you guys, and as I'm 00:37:26.749 --> 00:37:29.874 saying this, I'm realizing the people I remember best are people. 00:37:30.139 --> 00:37:34.009 I had brief but frequent interactions with people I kept bumping into in the 00:37:34.009 --> 00:37:36.709 halls just for like, Hey, how you doing? 00:37:36.709 --> 00:37:37.249 Oh, what are you doing? 00:37:37.339 --> 00:37:37.849 What do you like? 00:37:37.879 --> 00:37:39.469 Write books or something you freaking nerd. 00:37:39.718 --> 00:37:41.008 I don't know why they're all from Jersey, but they are, 00:37:43.311 --> 00:37:47.101 those types of interactions, I remember them so much better than, even like a 10 00:37:47.101 --> 00:37:48.721 or 15 minute conversation just once I. 00:37:49.616 --> 00:37:52.916 Duke: you may be the kind of person that nonverbal cues don't resonate really 00:37:52.916 --> 00:37:54.566 hard, like it is hard to pick up on. 00:37:54.836 --> 00:37:59.376 So if you're that kind of person, what I would suggest is, limit 00:37:59.376 --> 00:38:00.996 yourself to the number of questions. 00:38:01.194 --> 00:38:02.334 ask him a question. 00:38:02.484 --> 00:38:03.534 Let's have a little talk. 00:38:03.594 --> 00:38:04.524 Ask 'em another question. 00:38:04.524 --> 00:38:05.454 Let's have 'em a little talk. 00:38:05.784 --> 00:38:07.164 Maybe ask him a third question. 00:38:07.164 --> 00:38:10.074 Let's have, and then just say, well, I gotta get going to my next thing. 00:38:10.224 --> 00:38:12.504 If they wanna keep talking, they will let you know. 00:38:12.534 --> 00:38:13.734 They'll ask you questions. 00:38:14.203 --> 00:38:17.563 Tim: Yeah, and, and, you can kind of do it from, both perspectives. 00:38:17.563 --> 00:38:18.883 You can both be giving. 00:38:19.608 --> 00:38:22.698 An out to another person and you can look for another person giving 00:38:22.698 --> 00:38:25.848 you an out, because that can also be a nonverbal cue that they want 00:38:25.848 --> 00:38:27.168 to end the conversation, right? 00:38:27.168 --> 00:38:28.518 If they start trying to give you an out. 00:38:28.758 --> 00:38:30.618 A lot of times people will frame it that way. 00:38:31.188 --> 00:38:33.918 We've all heard the phrase like, uh, I better let you go. 00:38:33.948 --> 00:38:37.038 Like if you're on a call with someone and they would really like for you to stop 00:38:37.263 --> 00:38:38.373 Duke: them let you go for 00:38:38.373 --> 00:38:38.793 sure. 00:38:39.168 --> 00:38:39.678 Tim: yeah. 00:38:39.948 --> 00:38:40.368 yeah. 00:38:40.368 --> 00:38:42.018 They'll give you a, well, I better let you go. 00:38:42.408 --> 00:38:43.758 It's like, that's not for you buddy. 00:38:44.328 --> 00:38:46.398 That's them giving you an out to lead gracefully. 00:38:46.578 --> 00:38:46.878 Right. 00:38:47.358 --> 00:38:48.108 CJ: Yeah. 00:38:48.191 --> 00:38:49.421 that is absolutely that. 00:38:49.421 --> 00:38:50.801 I'm, I'm gonna holler at you later. 00:38:52.616 --> 00:38:57.476 Duke: and so , if it's new to you and maybe you're in a conversation that 00:38:57.576 --> 00:39:00.123 let's be frank, like you're bored of it, like you don't wanna look bored 00:39:00.123 --> 00:39:04.318 of it, or you have other things you gotta get to It's okay to tell those. 00:39:04.888 --> 00:39:06.538 Is it the little white lies? 00:39:06.538 --> 00:39:07.798 You're like, well, I better get going. 00:39:08.008 --> 00:39:09.568 or I have the next thing to get to. 00:39:09.949 --> 00:39:13.219 CJ: Yeah, that one, especially at Knowledge, you can always, always, 00:39:13.219 --> 00:39:18.169 always say, you got a session you gotta get to or ask, Hey, you gotta get, 00:39:18.199 --> 00:39:19.699 you got a session you need to get to. 00:39:19.699 --> 00:39:19.969 Right? 00:39:19.969 --> 00:39:20.689 That's an opening. 00:39:20.879 --> 00:39:21.099 Duke: Yep. 00:39:21.274 --> 00:39:22.984 Or I have to, I have a important phone call. 00:39:22.984 --> 00:39:25.004 I have to, take, or I have a four phone call. 00:39:25.004 --> 00:39:25.814 I've gotta, make, I. 00:39:26.624 --> 00:39:28.424 It was a pleasure meeting. 00:39:28.424 --> 00:39:29.474 You name, 00:39:30.449 --> 00:39:30.809 CJ: Yeah, 00:39:31.049 --> 00:39:31.289 Tim: Yeah, 00:39:31.694 --> 00:39:34.859 Duke: offer your hand good charge, handshake, and then you're good. 00:39:35.263 --> 00:39:35.473 Tim: yeah. 00:39:35.473 --> 00:39:38.643 And at, knowledge 25, if you're in the Venetian, for example, 00:39:38.643 --> 00:39:39.873 you've al always got the excuse. 00:39:39.873 --> 00:39:42.783 Well, my, my next session is all the way in the wind. 00:39:43.113 --> 00:39:43.443 it's a. 00:39:43.489 --> 00:39:44.869 45 minute walk. 00:39:45.139 --> 00:39:48.769 I'm gonna, which if, if anybody listening to this didn't know when 00:39:48.769 --> 00:39:51.889 you're listening before knowledge, Hey, pack some good shoes. 00:39:52.009 --> 00:39:54.529 'cause there's gonna be a lot of walking this year. 00:39:54.889 --> 00:39:55.579 More than usual. 00:39:55.579 --> 00:39:55.879 Even 00:39:56.314 --> 00:39:56.944 CJ: Yeah, 00:39:57.094 --> 00:39:59.404 Duke: We are at an hour of record. 00:39:59.794 --> 00:40:00.244 CJ: dude, 00:40:02.884 --> 00:40:04.054 Tim, that's all you, man. 00:40:04.054 --> 00:40:04.894 That's all you. 00:40:06.344 --> 00:40:09.664 Tim: I do get a bit verbose with my nerding out of things, you know. 00:40:09.784 --> 00:40:12.604 Duke: No, man, we love it and we really appreciate you 00:40:12.604 --> 00:40:13.774 coming on to be vulnerable too. 00:40:13.794 --> 00:40:14.724 not everybody can do that. 00:40:14.849 --> 00:40:17.936 Tim: Hey, anytime, I lack the gene, which fears vulnerability. 00:40:18.206 --> 00:40:20.289 do you guys mind if I, plug some stuff? 00:40:20.289 --> 00:40:23.289 I actually got the fourth edition of the handbook coming out pretty soon. 00:40:23.309 --> 00:40:23.629 Duke: Absolutely. 00:40:23.629 --> 00:40:26.034 And we will put the links in the description below, so plug away. 00:40:26.319 --> 00:40:26.649 Tim: Awesome. 00:40:26.649 --> 00:40:27.009 Thank you. 00:40:27.151 --> 00:40:31.284 if people wanna reach out to me, there's my LinkedIn You can put that in 00:40:31.284 --> 00:40:32.514 the description, if that's all right. 00:40:32.884 --> 00:40:34.354 . It's probably the best way to reach me. 00:40:34.514 --> 00:40:37.049 And social media is not really my thing, but I'm on LinkedIn. 00:40:37.389 --> 00:40:39.999 I've got the ServiceNow Development Handbook. 00:40:40.308 --> 00:40:43.248 there's some other books as well, but that's the main one really. 00:40:43.248 --> 00:40:45.798 If you're learning ServiceNow, if you wanna level up, get the 00:40:45.798 --> 00:40:47.028 ServiceNow Development Handbook. 00:40:47.208 --> 00:40:52.212 The fourth edition is just about to come out hopefully next month. 00:40:52.437 --> 00:40:55.497 it says July 4th, so it'll be no later than that, I hope. 00:40:55.827 --> 00:41:00.027 the fourth edition adds a bunch of stuff, some newer stuff that ServiceNow did, 00:41:00.027 --> 00:41:04.017 some stuff about Flow Designer fourth edition is up for pre-order right now. 00:41:04.227 --> 00:41:06.687 Handbook Do snc.guru. 00:41:07.047 --> 00:41:10.212 Last thing I wanna mention is if you see me at. 00:41:10.977 --> 00:41:14.757 Knowledge on the conference floor or at a bar or restaurant, and 00:41:14.757 --> 00:41:16.137 you have one of my books on you. 00:41:16.167 --> 00:41:18.587 Whatever I'm doing, whoever I'm with, wherever I am, , I 00:41:18.587 --> 00:41:20.567 will have something to give. 00:41:20.777 --> 00:41:23.747 It's a very small thing, not a big deal, but it's a fun little thing to give to 00:41:23.747 --> 00:41:27.377 anybody that shows up with one of my, books if you happen to see me around. 00:41:27.650 --> 00:41:28.970 feel free to come say hi. 00:41:29.188 --> 00:41:33.238 that's just an opportunity for anybody who wants to network and isn't sure how. 00:41:33.418 --> 00:41:35.888 If you got one of my books on you, you come up, , I'll 00:41:35.888 --> 00:41:37.628 be like, Hey, you, you there? 00:41:37.988 --> 00:41:39.728 You a freaking nerd. 00:41:39.998 --> 00:41:41.048 Come over here and say hi. 00:41:42.195 --> 00:41:42.735 CJ: Boom, 00:41:43.235 --> 00:41:43.905 Tim: If that's your in. 00:41:45.760 --> 00:41:46.060 Duke: All right. 00:41:46.060 --> 00:41:49.130 Hope this was helpful to everybody and I guess we'll see you on the next one. 00:41:49.492 --> 00:41:50.272 Tim: Thanks everybody. 00:41:50.551 --> 00:41:51.571 Thank you Duke, cj. 00:41:51.571 --> 00:41:52.321 See you guys next time. 00:41:52.454 --> 00:41:53.204 CJ: Absolutely, Tim. 00:41:53.204 --> 00:41:53.624 Thanks. 00:41:53.624 --> 00:41:53.684 I. 00:41:53.855 --> 00:41:54.075 Tim: Bye.