WEBVTT NOTE This file was generated by Descript 00:00:01.860 --> 00:00:04.410 Mike Bifulco: Hello, hello and welcome to APIs you Won't Hate. 00:00:04.410 --> 00:00:05.730 My name is Mike Fulco. 00:00:05.730 --> 00:00:08.660 Your effervescent and ever present host of the show. 00:00:08.663 --> 00:00:12.249 Today I am flying solo and having a chat with actually a friend of mine. 00:00:12.316 --> 00:00:15.939 Locally here in my hometown of Charlotte who I've known for a while now. 00:00:16.034 --> 00:00:18.284 And we're, we're gonna talk a bit about what he is working on, a bit 00:00:18.284 --> 00:00:21.802 about how he got there and you know, some of the backstory of that stuff. 00:00:21.892 --> 00:00:24.472 So I'm very excited to talk to today. 00:00:24.472 --> 00:00:25.102 Drew White. 00:00:25.102 --> 00:00:25.882 Drew, How's it going, man? 00:00:26.587 --> 00:00:27.127 Drew White: Hey Mike. 00:00:27.127 --> 00:00:27.577 How are you? 00:00:27.667 --> 00:00:28.447 Doing good today. 00:00:28.972 --> 00:00:29.422 Mike Bifulco: I'm good. 00:00:29.422 --> 00:00:29.962 I'm good. 00:00:30.035 --> 00:00:31.410 We have a lot of things to talk about. 00:00:31.410 --> 00:00:35.128 I'm really interested to hear your whole story and talk a little bit 00:00:35.133 --> 00:00:38.737 about stash pad where you, you have been laying down your lines 00:00:38.737 --> 00:00:40.627 of code of late among other things. 00:00:40.733 --> 00:00:43.638 Yeah, and I think we, we'll kind of get into all those things. 00:00:43.706 --> 00:00:46.706 In particular, like anything to do with building en engineering teams and all 00:00:46.706 --> 00:00:48.086 that is always interesting around here. 00:00:48.177 --> 00:00:49.823 Drew, tell me about yourself. 00:00:49.823 --> 00:00:50.513 How did we meet? 00:00:50.573 --> 00:00:51.333 Let's start there 00:00:52.073 --> 00:00:55.805 Drew White: this is actually, I feel like it was kismet if I can use that word. 00:00:55.882 --> 00:00:56.152 Yeah. 00:00:56.152 --> 00:00:59.311 So I'm a cyclist as you guys probably know, Mike is as well. 00:00:59.791 --> 00:01:04.447 And I was riding with a buddy on a local Greenway, and Mike was riding one 00:01:04.447 --> 00:01:08.917 of the most esoteric bikes that I feel like only a handful of local cyclists 00:01:09.337 --> 00:01:10.627 probably even know what they are. 00:01:10.632 --> 00:01:13.357 But I saw it was like, Hey. 00:01:13.777 --> 00:01:15.337 Is that a such and such? 00:01:15.847 --> 00:01:20.017 And he was like, Yeah, how did you, like, it was just like a, a sort of thing. 00:01:20.137 --> 00:01:24.457 And so we kind of met on the, the Greenway had a small little 00:01:24.457 --> 00:01:28.381 conversation and then later I had a. 00:01:28.726 --> 00:01:30.136 Set of wheels for sale. 00:01:30.136 --> 00:01:32.917 I, I believe, And you responded to the post. 00:01:32.917 --> 00:01:36.187 I don't think I realized it was you until you came to pick up the 00:01:36.192 --> 00:01:38.347 wheels and bought them and Yeah. 00:01:38.377 --> 00:01:42.932 So like that whole thing and then, yeah, just started riding like morning greenway 00:01:43.082 --> 00:01:45.242 grabbing coffee, that sort of thing. 00:01:45.242 --> 00:01:47.252 And that was a couple years ago now, 00:01:47.487 --> 00:01:49.737 Mike Bifulco: it was during the dark days of the pandemic for sure. 00:01:49.848 --> 00:01:52.248 You know, when, when we were not doing much indoor stuff, 00:01:52.518 --> 00:01:54.018 definitely a bit of kismet there. 00:01:54.085 --> 00:01:57.158 And I, I think if I remember like the space between bumping into each 00:01:57.163 --> 00:02:00.758 other for the first time and then me contacting you on Facebook marketplace 00:02:00.758 --> 00:02:04.802 to buy wheels when I needed them was like days to a week at most. 00:02:04.804 --> 00:02:06.364 Drew White: I think it was two days. 00:02:06.424 --> 00:02:07.544 I think it was two days. 00:02:07.894 --> 00:02:10.909 Mike Bifulco: a very strange back to back set of coincidences that I'm, 00:02:10.909 --> 00:02:12.809 you know, frankly pretty grateful for. 00:02:13.019 --> 00:02:14.039 Drew White: And I am too 00:02:14.261 --> 00:02:15.371 Mike Bifulco: Yeah, of course. 00:02:15.409 --> 00:02:18.039 We've talked about, you know, tons of writing stuff ever since, of course. 00:02:18.039 --> 00:02:21.154 And coffee seems to come up fairly often and you, you have similar tastes 00:02:21.154 --> 00:02:23.074 in design and all that other stuff too. 00:02:23.096 --> 00:02:25.016 So it's been super cool to kind of get to know you here. 00:02:25.060 --> 00:02:27.653 And what's been really cool to see over the past few years is like 00:02:27.653 --> 00:02:29.873 you've done a complete full on career. 00:02:29.878 --> 00:02:32.423 Like I, I, a pivot is not even fair. 00:02:32.423 --> 00:02:35.673 Like you've done an absolute like SUEx to your working world. 00:02:35.715 --> 00:02:37.065 Tell me a little bit about your working history. 00:02:37.065 --> 00:02:38.726 Like what, what have you done and what are you doing? 00:02:39.945 --> 00:02:43.155 Drew White: Yeah, so I've kind of taken a non-traditional 00:02:43.155 --> 00:02:45.975 path into the working world. 00:02:46.069 --> 00:02:49.969 I kind of started in finance for the first two years out of school. 00:02:50.031 --> 00:02:52.161 I did not go to college. 00:02:52.176 --> 00:02:55.220 Just really wasn't my, I attempted, but really wasn't my thing. 00:02:56.000 --> 00:02:59.760 So jumped into finance for a couple of years and then spent the. 00:03:01.515 --> 00:03:04.245 I don't know, decade or so in aerospace. 00:03:04.277 --> 00:03:08.778 Started kind of at the bottom of sort of midsize company and worked 00:03:08.778 --> 00:03:11.085 my way up to marketing director. 00:03:12.045 --> 00:03:17.415 And so from there, pivoted out of that into starting my own marketing 00:03:17.420 --> 00:03:21.633 agency which I did smack Deb in the middle of the pandemic right 00:03:21.633 --> 00:03:23.283 around the time that I met you. 00:03:23.403 --> 00:03:29.688 And what's interesting is I had been, You know, fascinated with the developer 00:03:29.688 --> 00:03:32.295 world for a couple years at that point. 00:03:32.295 --> 00:03:35.941 But really hadn't made it like a high priority on my, 00:03:36.421 --> 00:03:38.198 I tend to accumulate hobbies. 00:03:38.239 --> 00:03:40.996 So it kind of fell to the bottom of the stack. 00:03:40.996 --> 00:03:44.626 And then I met you and we were kind of talking about some of this stuff on 00:03:44.631 --> 00:03:47.086 the bike rides and, and such and such. 00:03:47.266 --> 00:03:50.566 And I had started building a lot of websites and things for. 00:03:51.896 --> 00:03:55.366 and yeah, just with one of your, your previous employers. 00:03:55.366 --> 00:03:59.314 Shown me the, the gymnasium actually which was like sort of like tutorial 00:03:59.314 --> 00:04:03.811 land, educational portal for largely like web dev stuff I feel like. 00:04:03.867 --> 00:04:06.970 But anyways, took every single course available on there 00:04:06.970 --> 00:04:08.500 and got a lot out of it. 00:04:08.500 --> 00:04:12.355 And just like that love of wanting to build stuff just 00:04:12.805 --> 00:04:15.235 ignited from that point forward. 00:04:15.925 --> 00:04:17.155 So fast forward. 00:04:18.070 --> 00:04:23.055 Let's say a year of really focusing on development education, 00:04:23.055 --> 00:04:24.315 particularly with JavaScript. 00:04:24.344 --> 00:04:28.492 I was kind of burn out managing this, this marketing business. 00:04:28.518 --> 00:04:32.457 Found a actual subcontractor that was interested in acquiring it and. 00:04:33.987 --> 00:04:39.657 Bailed and decided that I wanted to take a stab at, you know, working 00:04:39.657 --> 00:04:41.622 for a startup in the tech world. 00:04:41.694 --> 00:04:46.398 And so kind of applied to a couple of places and put my resume out there a 00:04:46.398 --> 00:04:50.101 little bit, However minimal it might have been at that point in time. 00:04:50.701 --> 00:04:55.938 And fielded quite a few inquiries and really landed on I had one conversation. 00:04:56.158 --> 00:04:59.640 Kara Bornstein is Stash pad ceo. 00:04:59.640 --> 00:05:07.136 And really believed in her vision and her as a leader of that company. 00:05:07.166 --> 00:05:10.349 So it was pretty sold and then in the second interview, got to meet with the 00:05:10.349 --> 00:05:14.466 cto the Meron and was even more sold. 00:05:14.496 --> 00:05:17.856 So I had kind of decided at that point that this is really 00:05:17.856 --> 00:05:19.386 where I wanted to be and. 00:05:20.491 --> 00:05:24.451 So took a role there as a developer experience designer, 00:05:24.471 --> 00:05:26.236 , Mike Bifulco: man, you've done so many things in such 00:05:26.236 --> 00:05:27.136 a short amount of time, like. 00:05:27.376 --> 00:05:31.246 Literally from, from finance to being a marketing director, to running an agency 00:05:31.246 --> 00:05:34.392 to figuring out how to find your way into the dev world is really fascinating. 00:05:34.392 --> 00:05:36.882 you know, Along the way, like you, you also had some interesting projects 00:05:36.882 --> 00:05:39.387 that you put out into the world, which, though your resume may have 00:05:39.387 --> 00:05:43.017 been short at the time you had some really cool stuff like your skew 00:05:43.227 --> 00:05:44.797 amorphism project . That, that was cool. 00:05:44.797 --> 00:05:45.637 Do you wanna talk a little bit about. 00:05:46.582 --> 00:05:47.452 Drew White: Yeah, sure. 00:05:47.452 --> 00:05:50.644 So I was just kind of in all of my free time, I was building 00:05:50.644 --> 00:05:53.623 a lot of UI stuff just. 00:05:54.648 --> 00:05:57.768 For learning purposes of my own, but also just cuz there were things that I 00:05:57.768 --> 00:06:01.698 wanted that I, I couldn't find or I didn't think existed or something like that. 00:06:02.208 --> 00:06:06.278 So I was using a lot of like, skew, morphism, glass, amorphism and 00:06:06.278 --> 00:06:08.688 amorphism in some of my designs. 00:06:08.709 --> 00:06:13.209 Primarily because I have a background in 3D design and so it was like 00:06:13.209 --> 00:06:16.359 sort of appealing to me to be able to create some of that stuff. 00:06:16.486 --> 00:06:19.126 Sort of like the in, in the web, which I thought was awesome. 00:06:19.152 --> 00:06:20.535 And so yeah, I created this tool. 00:06:20.655 --> 00:06:26.535 I got tired of like finagling, like, okay, 0.3 pixels, 0.4 pixels, like, like 00:06:26.535 --> 00:06:29.595 all of this stuff, like adjusting 'em to get like the shadows and the highlights 00:06:29.595 --> 00:06:30.955 and all of that stuff just right. 00:06:30.955 --> 00:06:35.823 And so I created a little tool that's basically a, a CSS generator with 00:06:36.003 --> 00:06:39.783 these really nice little sliders that, you know, you can quickly dial. 00:06:40.403 --> 00:06:45.441 The amount of s amorphism amorphism that you want with the right direction of 00:06:45.441 --> 00:06:50.435 light down to like, I think it's 1000th of a pixel or something like that. 00:06:50.435 --> 00:06:51.275 It's pretty crazy. 00:06:51.305 --> 00:06:56.584 But yeah, built that and it's actually gotten quite a bit of use from my, not 00:06:56.584 --> 00:07:00.239 only myself, but like other designers and developers have used it as well. 00:07:00.239 --> 00:07:03.167 And yeah, that was like the first real tool that I built and put out. 00:07:04.077 --> 00:07:07.231 Picked up any traction but it was super fun to build for sure. 00:07:08.336 --> 00:07:08.726 Mike Bifulco: Yeah. 00:07:10.446 --> 00:07:12.776 I appreciate most about you, how understated you are. 00:07:12.793 --> 00:07:17.533 It, this is an insanely cool thing and like to me, the, the perfect example 00:07:17.533 --> 00:07:21.106 of showing , that you're an interesting person who's taking a hands on approach to 00:07:21.106 --> 00:07:22.532 learning and actually building things out. 00:07:22.532 --> 00:07:25.821 I will drop the URL for this tool in, in the browser or sorry, 00:07:25.821 --> 00:07:27.156 in the, in the show notes here. 00:07:27.195 --> 00:07:30.195 And what's interesting for the audience of APIs you won't hate is like a 00:07:30.195 --> 00:07:31.605 lot of the folks we work with here. 00:07:31.702 --> 00:07:35.152 Really into building the data layer, the back end side of things, the connective 00:07:35.152 --> 00:07:36.842 tissue from the front end to the back end. 00:07:36.842 --> 00:07:40.126 But you can imagine in many ways that you could show off your chops as an 00:07:40.126 --> 00:07:44.026 API developer by building out a simple tool that just shows one facet of 00:07:44.236 --> 00:07:47.606 here's how I would, you know, build out these, these knobs and levers to adjust 00:07:47.606 --> 00:07:49.038 the experience of building an api. 00:07:49.106 --> 00:07:49.342 Better. 00:07:49.342 --> 00:07:53.763 New Amorphism is a very touchable like you know, tasty kind of thing to be able 00:07:53.763 --> 00:07:56.327 to go out and use and like as someone who's trying to break into the industry 00:07:56.327 --> 00:07:58.757 or as someone who was trying to break into the industry at the time, it's 00:07:58.762 --> 00:08:02.171 the perfect kind of prism put in front of yourself to say like, yeah, cool. 00:08:02.231 --> 00:08:04.781 I haven't worked in this yet, but I do this kind of work and 00:08:04.781 --> 00:08:05.801 I do a really good job of it. 00:08:05.862 --> 00:08:08.210 And it's gotten some great attention too, which is really cool. 00:08:08.232 --> 00:08:10.512 The, the thing I still need to yell at you about is you need to 00:08:10.512 --> 00:08:11.832 put your name on that webpage. 00:08:12.782 --> 00:08:15.302 In big, bold letters somewhere, minimalism be damned. 00:08:15.302 --> 00:08:16.612 People should know where it came from. 00:08:16.612 --> 00:08:17.212 You know what I mean? 00:08:17.627 --> 00:08:20.777 Drew White: That is sort of like a thing that we've talked about a bit. 00:08:20.807 --> 00:08:27.483 I'm a minimalist through and through like at every phase and yeah, it's, I get it. 00:08:27.543 --> 00:08:28.053 The branding. 00:08:28.053 --> 00:08:29.883 I need to be better about that for sure. 00:08:29.898 --> 00:08:31.647 And maybe someday I'll put it on there. 00:08:32.667 --> 00:08:33.357 Mike Bifulco: Fair enough. 00:08:33.687 --> 00:08:36.177 Yeah, I'll go chase down your code and open a poll request for you. 00:08:36.233 --> 00:08:36.488 Yeah. 00:08:36.488 --> 00:08:36.728 Cool. 00:08:36.728 --> 00:08:39.458 So why don't we talk a little bit about what you're doing now. 00:08:39.458 --> 00:08:40.950 So what is stpa? 00:08:41.810 --> 00:08:46.194 Drew White: So Stash Padd is a notes taking application. 00:08:46.259 --> 00:08:50.639 Kind of aims to flip that concept of notes taking on its head. 00:08:50.755 --> 00:08:54.714 The whole point of what we're doing is reducing the burden of capture. 00:08:54.714 --> 00:08:58.327 I mean from my perspective, notes is not a particularly enjoyable 00:08:58.327 --> 00:08:59.707 experience for most people. 00:08:59.707 --> 00:09:01.867 However, it is a particularly important. 00:09:02.273 --> 00:09:06.290 Part of daily dev life or daily, you know, really work life. 00:09:06.290 --> 00:09:10.202 Being able to get thoughts out of our head, take notes on conversations 00:09:10.207 --> 00:09:13.142 that we've had, meetings standups, code reviews, all that kind of stuff 00:09:13.154 --> 00:09:16.479 very easily, very quickly, and be able to put it somewhere and not 00:09:16.479 --> 00:09:20.090 really have to worry about where you're putting it necessarily and kind 00:09:20.090 --> 00:09:22.340 of give you that feeling and vibe. 00:09:22.670 --> 00:09:26.270 Similar to like if you were dm, DMing yourself in Slack. 00:09:27.630 --> 00:09:31.290 Where it's the, it's the lowest burden of entry for capture. 00:09:31.290 --> 00:09:36.270 And the, the, in my personal experience, I might be biased, but my personal 00:09:36.270 --> 00:09:40.050 experience, it's the, it's the least amount of friction for getting something 00:09:40.050 --> 00:09:44.020 out of my head and into somewhere that I can recall it later when I need to. 00:09:44.020 --> 00:09:48.683 So yeah, we've been working on the app for, oh, probably two 00:09:48.683 --> 00:09:50.053 years now, I guess is when. 00:09:51.278 --> 00:09:55.502 Things kind of started, but we just launched in August on product hunt. 00:09:55.502 --> 00:09:58.261 And reception has been phenomenal. 00:09:58.266 --> 00:09:59.461 It's been so, so good. 00:09:59.598 --> 00:10:00.108 So yeah. 00:10:01.158 --> 00:10:02.658 That's what Stash pad is. 00:10:02.658 --> 00:10:07.285 It's at the helm we have Kara Bernstein and Theo Meron as the two founders. 00:10:07.317 --> 00:10:08.918 And then it's a pretty small team. 00:10:08.918 --> 00:10:11.438 We're located in Raleigh or Durham, North Carolina. 00:10:11.498 --> 00:10:12.518 I keep saying Raleigh 00:10:12.818 --> 00:10:13.058 every 00:10:13.268 --> 00:10:13.868 Mike Bifulco: Middle of both. 00:10:14.138 --> 00:10:14.628 Drew White: Yeah. 00:10:14.633 --> 00:10:14.918 Yeah. 00:10:15.398 --> 00:10:17.048 Mike Bifulco: I mean, most people put 'em right next to each other 00:10:17.048 --> 00:10:17.408 anyway. 00:10:17.510 --> 00:10:20.051 Drew White: At the American Underground there which has been great. 00:10:20.141 --> 00:10:20.681 So, Yeah. 00:10:20.696 --> 00:10:21.116 Mike Bifulco: Yeah. 00:10:21.146 --> 00:10:21.476 Cool. 00:10:21.476 --> 00:10:21.626 Yeah. 00:10:21.626 --> 00:10:24.324 American Underground is kind of like the home of startups in, 00:10:24.324 --> 00:10:25.614 in that part of North Carolina. 00:10:25.697 --> 00:10:27.257 A super cool community created there. 00:10:27.303 --> 00:10:29.643 So note taking is a really interesting thing to me. 00:10:29.736 --> 00:10:34.066 I, I have kind of a, a interesting history with it and actually I remember, I wish 00:10:34.066 --> 00:10:36.796 I could tell you when it was, but I remember a specific conversation I had 00:10:36.796 --> 00:10:38.368 with one of my great friends actually. 00:10:38.429 --> 00:10:42.574 My former employer, Andrew Miller, who is the program director over at Gymnasium 00:10:42.574 --> 00:10:45.100 and his longtime friend of mine, one of the, the smartest people I know. 00:10:45.100 --> 00:10:47.350 At one point I remember having a conversation with him where he asked 00:10:47.350 --> 00:10:49.240 me about how I take notes for work. 00:10:49.240 --> 00:10:50.620 Like how do I keep track of what I'm doing? 00:10:50.860 --> 00:10:53.920 And literally at the time, my response was, why would I take notes? 00:10:53.950 --> 00:10:55.690 Like, I just remember it, you know? 00:10:55.690 --> 00:10:59.399 And like the, the brash, bold statement that I made that 00:10:59.399 --> 00:11:00.512 was just like I don't know. 00:11:00.512 --> 00:11:02.432 My brain's working at a thousand percent all the time. 00:11:02.432 --> 00:11:04.112 Why do I need to write anything down? 00:11:04.179 --> 00:11:07.404 I remember that moment and I remember like literally a month later being like, 00:11:07.674 --> 00:11:08.994 Oh man, I need to write everything down. 00:11:08.994 --> 00:11:10.164 Like I'm starting to forget things. 00:11:10.164 --> 00:11:11.614 They're all falling outta the back of my head. 00:11:11.614 --> 00:11:14.052 And that, that was the moment where I really started to focus on like, trying 00:11:14.052 --> 00:11:17.937 to organize myself, trying to organize my thoughts and have frankly, filtered 00:11:17.942 --> 00:11:19.257 through a lot of tools in the meantime. 00:11:19.257 --> 00:11:19.507 And I think. 00:11:20.202 --> 00:11:22.872 The note taking thing and writing down notes and taking 00:11:22.872 --> 00:11:24.029 notes is a virtuous thing. 00:11:24.029 --> 00:11:24.599 It's very good. 00:11:24.599 --> 00:11:29.009 You want to do it because it, it's less burden for your, your mind, but 00:11:29.009 --> 00:11:30.835 also it helps other people, right? 00:11:30.835 --> 00:11:33.565 So like, Drew, if you and I have a conversation, I'm teaching you 00:11:33.565 --> 00:11:35.065 something one on one, that's awesome. 00:11:35.125 --> 00:11:36.245 You might learn something from me. 00:11:36.271 --> 00:11:39.806 But if I also write it down and one other person reads it, I've doubled 00:11:39.806 --> 00:11:41.526 the efficacy of that conversation. 00:11:41.556 --> 00:11:42.606 And that's why note taking is good. 00:11:42.606 --> 00:11:43.236 It's also helpful. 00:11:43.236 --> 00:11:45.426 If I forget it in the future, I can come back to it. 00:11:45.473 --> 00:11:47.423 What, what I also really like about it too is that. 00:11:48.653 --> 00:11:51.353 Note taking is different for everyone and you kind of have 00:11:51.353 --> 00:11:52.353 to find what works for you. 00:11:52.353 --> 00:11:55.333 And I feel like people may feel like the market is kind of floated, 00:11:55.393 --> 00:11:57.073 flooded with note taking tools. 00:11:57.105 --> 00:12:01.138 But I think that's because people's style of thought and their style of organization 00:12:01.143 --> 00:12:04.398 is very, very different from one another and like, Some people are good with 00:12:04.398 --> 00:12:08.589 just a notepad, you know, txt file and, and the chaos that that may bring on. 00:12:08.589 --> 00:12:11.829 Some people might like the iOS, you know, note app for their own thing. 00:12:11.832 --> 00:12:15.387 But truly finding something that is like broadly applicable and 00:12:15.387 --> 00:12:18.717 easy to use and easy to understand is a challenging problem space. 00:12:18.838 --> 00:12:21.530 Drew White: Yeah, and I think actually your experience that you 00:12:21.535 --> 00:12:23.300 just described is fairly common. 00:12:23.360 --> 00:12:25.730 You know, I had the same. 00:12:27.005 --> 00:12:31.235 Greater than do attitude towards notes in the early days, like 00:12:31.295 --> 00:12:33.245 I have a pretty solid memory. 00:12:33.245 --> 00:12:35.045 I can remember a lot of things. 00:12:36.830 --> 00:12:42.110 But what I think a lot of people who do take notes now understand, and people who 00:12:42.110 --> 00:12:46.490 don't take notes will ultimately figure out is that the more you keep in your 00:12:46.495 --> 00:12:49.850 head, Yeah, you may be able to keep it in there, but you got limited space up there. 00:12:49.910 --> 00:12:53.960 So the more you take in, eventually some of that stuff's gonna start falling off. 00:12:53.960 --> 00:12:56.870 And then there's like the stress of, you know, some of that data may be 00:12:56.870 --> 00:12:59.150 important and then you may not have it. 00:12:59.150 --> 00:13:02.343 So I've definitely adapted a practice and you're absolutely right, there's 00:13:02.343 --> 00:13:03.693 a lot of options out there and. 00:13:05.043 --> 00:13:10.177 Varying degrees of Complexity, which is the interesting part to me. 00:13:10.477 --> 00:13:14.587 But I think what is so interesting is just the fact that there are so many, 00:13:14.617 --> 00:13:18.727 like different note taking applications speaks to a larger problem, right? 00:13:18.967 --> 00:13:20.707 No one has kind of sorted this stuff out. 00:13:20.712 --> 00:13:23.317 Usually, particularly in the dev the development world, 00:13:23.322 --> 00:13:26.707 engineering world dev tools tend to be winner take all, I mean, vs. 00:13:26.707 --> 00:13:31.237 Code by far and away owns the market and in ide, maybe with JetBrains or 00:13:31.237 --> 00:13:33.127 something coming in right behind them. 00:13:33.877 --> 00:13:34.477 You've got. 00:13:35.962 --> 00:13:38.152 Basically issue tracking tools and all these other things. 00:13:38.152 --> 00:13:43.702 There's usually like a winner take all sort of situation and in so sort of 00:13:43.702 --> 00:13:48.442 personal notes that sort of space that really isn't something that is landed on. 00:13:48.442 --> 00:13:51.022 People are kind of all over the board from, you know, untitled text 00:13:51.022 --> 00:13:55.144 files, just flooding their desktop to any combination of different 00:13:55.234 --> 00:14:00.358 apps, big ones, no notion Evernote obsidian, all of those things and. 00:14:01.138 --> 00:14:06.478 Where we like to think that we can fit in and, and, and why we're building 00:14:06.478 --> 00:14:10.708 this thing in the first place is to kind of have this defacto, we'll 00:14:10.713 --> 00:14:13.078 do whatever you want it to do. 00:14:13.768 --> 00:14:15.578 Lightweight and very speedy. 00:14:15.642 --> 00:14:19.006 I've used some of the other big name apps out there particularly. 00:14:19.921 --> 00:14:21.581 Like Apple notes and things like that. 00:14:21.639 --> 00:14:26.619 And there always seems to be a little bit of friction between, I just got 00:14:26.619 --> 00:14:30.789 told some information that I need to remember in four hours from now, or two 00:14:30.789 --> 00:14:32.619 days from now, or two months from now. 00:14:33.459 --> 00:14:34.659 Where do I put that? 00:14:34.929 --> 00:14:36.569 How do I organize that in my. 00:14:37.194 --> 00:14:41.574 Hierarchy or whatever and how am I gonna find that later? 00:14:41.645 --> 00:14:42.815 And that has always been my challenge. 00:14:42.815 --> 00:14:46.025 I've bounced around from, from app to app long before I even 00:14:46.025 --> 00:14:48.035 knew that stash pad was a thing. 00:14:48.076 --> 00:14:52.306 And so that's the problem we aim to resolve. 00:14:52.336 --> 00:14:56.176 And the reality is if we can bring a little bit of joy to something 00:14:56.176 --> 00:15:01.173 that is often like a mundane sort of experience yeah, I mean, all the better. 00:15:01.383 --> 00:15:01.623 That's. 00:15:02.418 --> 00:15:03.048 The goal 00:15:03.888 --> 00:15:04.368 Mike Bifulco: Sure. 00:15:04.518 --> 00:15:04.998 Yeah. 00:15:05.088 --> 00:15:09.408 It's a, it's a hard thing to describe the way, the value of having a 00:15:09.408 --> 00:15:10.818 good note taking system feels. 00:15:10.818 --> 00:15:13.488 But like, when you come out on the other side of it and you start writing 00:15:13.488 --> 00:15:17.298 things down, the task of recall suddenly doesn't become, I need to 00:15:17.303 --> 00:15:18.738 remember every detail about this thing. 00:15:18.798 --> 00:15:21.318 All you need to remember is that you wrote it down and you can find 00:15:21.348 --> 00:15:21.528 it. 00:15:21.805 --> 00:15:24.273 And that's something that, the scale that comes with that is pretty 00:15:24.273 --> 00:15:25.768 tremendous and also really helpful. 00:15:25.768 --> 00:15:28.168 Like in three years when I wanna look up what you and I talked about 00:15:28.168 --> 00:15:29.854 today I certainly won't remember. 00:15:30.419 --> 00:15:33.479 Right in my brain, but I will remember that we had this talk and I can jump 00:15:33.479 --> 00:15:34.919 back into my notes and chase it down. 00:15:35.664 --> 00:15:36.084 Drew White: Yep. 00:15:36.934 --> 00:15:38.944 Mike Bifulco: It's, it's super cool and I feel like there's a lot of 00:15:38.944 --> 00:15:43.534 psychology that goes into it, like both the people's hesitance to take on note 00:15:43.534 --> 00:15:47.046 taking, but then like the personal style, the workflow, the things that trigger 00:15:47.046 --> 00:15:49.986 peoples like, I need to take a note about this, or I need to keep my list 00:15:49.991 --> 00:15:54.115 of tasks in this versus you know, am I summarizing an article or, or writing 00:15:54.115 --> 00:15:57.865 down a note about, I dunno, some hack I wrote in my code, Whatever the case may. 00:15:58.000 --> 00:15:59.410 Yeah, I, I like all of that stuff. 00:15:59.410 --> 00:16:02.170 It's really interesting to think about and like you must be building a very kind 00:16:02.170 --> 00:16:03.970 of generic tool set to do that, right. 00:16:04.960 --> 00:16:05.410 Drew White: Yeah. 00:16:05.410 --> 00:16:09.962 I mean, like our whole concept is, is giving Users, people a 00:16:09.962 --> 00:16:12.452 default place to write to that they don't have to worry about. 00:16:12.452 --> 00:16:15.222 Like, it's, it's essentially a log, you know, it's. 00:16:15.692 --> 00:16:17.342 Date timestamped log. 00:16:17.762 --> 00:16:19.202 That includes everything that you've got. 00:16:19.202 --> 00:16:23.642 So if you even remember roughly what happened during the day, you should 00:16:23.642 --> 00:16:27.338 be able to find the note that, that you took down which is pretty awesome. 00:16:27.398 --> 00:16:31.885 And so sort of the next big thing for us is further removing we'll call 'em 00:16:31.885 --> 00:16:35.995 barriers to capture cuz we believe that that's the most important thing. 00:16:36.055 --> 00:16:40.123 And so as we continue to expand, Develop the product. 00:16:40.123 --> 00:16:44.683 One of our, our major items on our roadmap is like integrations and our api. 00:16:44.818 --> 00:16:47.368 So the whole idea of being able to. 00:16:48.163 --> 00:16:53.984 Send content from somewhere into stash pad or even have that content 00:16:53.984 --> 00:16:58.784 automatically be imported into Stash Padd as a note in the right place when 00:16:58.784 --> 00:17:02.007 you need it is really exciting for me. 00:17:02.075 --> 00:17:05.675 I don't know what it was like, you know, at any of your, your previous employers. 00:17:05.732 --> 00:17:09.962 But like one of the biggest things moving to the tech world that kind of knocked 00:17:09.962 --> 00:17:12.252 me off my socks is the tech stack. 00:17:12.258 --> 00:17:15.198 I was not prepared for that whatsoever. 00:17:15.198 --> 00:17:18.678 Like even coming from like my own business where I was using quite a 00:17:18.678 --> 00:17:21.528 few different tools for different purposes and managing those things. 00:17:21.984 --> 00:17:29.574 Like my bookmark folder for like just dash padd tools is, is, is pretty big. 00:17:29.574 --> 00:17:34.644 Like we, we've got at least 12 separate tools that we use for different purposes. 00:17:35.004 --> 00:17:39.174 And while that's great and all of them work really well, sometimes it's hard. 00:17:39.221 --> 00:17:42.803 Particularly in my position, it's difficult. 00:17:43.538 --> 00:17:47.048 Hey, remember where that comment that someone made that you 00:17:47.048 --> 00:17:48.488 need to reference came from? 00:17:48.968 --> 00:17:51.398 Or like, was it in Slack? 00:17:51.398 --> 00:17:54.908 Was it in, was it a conversation, Was it a thread in Slack, like going 00:17:54.908 --> 00:17:56.228 back and doing all of that stuff? 00:17:56.618 --> 00:18:00.854 Or was it a slab or any, any number of, of different locations 00:18:00.884 --> 00:18:01.874 it could have come from. 00:18:02.564 --> 00:18:07.835 And so the ability to have this sort of automated notes dashboard which 00:18:07.835 --> 00:18:09.545 is, you know, the ultimate goal here. 00:18:10.655 --> 00:18:15.365 Really, really appealing to me to be able to create some smart stacks that 00:18:15.425 --> 00:18:18.695 give you the information you need from the resources that you use, the 00:18:18.695 --> 00:18:22.802 tools that you use and combine that with capturing your own notes from 00:18:22.802 --> 00:18:27.631 one-on-ones meetings, code reviews, all of that stuff is really just feels 00:18:27.691 --> 00:18:30.541 like I would like to have that today. 00:18:31.426 --> 00:18:32.956 Mike Bifulco: Sure . Sure. 00:18:33.376 --> 00:18:33.946 Yeah. 00:18:34.396 --> 00:18:37.547 I what I'm really interested to hear about too is like, this is, this 00:18:37.547 --> 00:18:41.987 is one of those great cases where almost certainly you will be using 00:18:42.047 --> 00:18:43.307 Dash pad as you're building it. 00:18:43.322 --> 00:18:45.990 You know, probably both personally and as, as a company, as a 00:18:45.990 --> 00:18:46.950 team, whatever that looks like. 00:18:47.920 --> 00:18:51.250 Can you tell me a little bit about what, what your, like what your, I dunno. 00:18:51.610 --> 00:18:53.770 Your dog fooding process is like, and some of the things that 00:18:53.770 --> 00:18:54.880 your team does with Stash pad. 00:18:55.800 --> 00:18:59.086 Drew White: Yeah, so our dog fooding process is pretty strong. 00:18:59.086 --> 00:19:03.485 Everybody on our team is very opinionated and also very thorough and not afraid 00:19:03.490 --> 00:19:08.375 to speak up, which is hugely beneficial both from like a development standpoint, 00:19:08.375 --> 00:19:11.855 but honestly from a design standpoint, which I spend a lot of time in. 00:19:12.725 --> 00:19:17.620 And so we all use stash pad very differently. 00:19:17.687 --> 00:19:19.813 It's actually pretty fascinating. 00:19:20.863 --> 00:19:25.273 Often, like, we'll go into like a spec review or something like that and this 00:19:25.273 --> 00:19:28.753 person will say, You know, I use this this way, that makes perfect sense to me. 00:19:28.753 --> 00:19:31.693 And then like I'm looking at 'em like, I don't use it that way at all. 00:19:31.693 --> 00:19:35.653 Like I, my mindset, my brain map is, is different. 00:19:35.653 --> 00:19:37.123 My mental model is different. 00:19:37.783 --> 00:19:42.223 And so what's fascinating is we've, we've kind of engineered 00:19:42.493 --> 00:19:47.468 the flexibility to match different mental models into the app which has. 00:19:48.643 --> 00:19:52.913 I don't know, kind of just eye opening for me, but I use it all the time. 00:19:53.023 --> 00:19:56.974 Primarily with code reviews, design reviews, that sort of thing. 00:19:56.979 --> 00:19:57.994 Spec reviews. 00:19:58.049 --> 00:20:00.769 I have several, one-on-ones every week. 00:20:00.829 --> 00:20:05.359 I like to use it for them so I can both remember what we talked about, but also 00:20:05.449 --> 00:20:08.676 kind of measure my own progress and be able to go back and look at some 00:20:08.676 --> 00:20:09.966 of the things that we talked about. 00:20:10.236 --> 00:20:10.806 I also do it. 00:20:11.604 --> 00:20:13.704 Basically things that I want to bring up. 00:20:13.704 --> 00:20:16.254 I also use it as a drafting tool, believe it or not. 00:20:16.275 --> 00:20:20.977 Cuz it does support markdown and so I can do some longer form notes if I need to. 00:20:21.044 --> 00:20:23.114 So I do like it as a drafting tool. 00:20:23.114 --> 00:20:24.663 They render really, really nicely. 00:20:24.664 --> 00:20:29.241 And then I also use it as like a lockbox for data. 00:20:30.501 --> 00:20:32.451 I know I'm gonna need in perpetuity. 00:20:32.573 --> 00:20:36.383 I can keep a place for quick, quick info that I just need to access all the time. 00:20:36.387 --> 00:20:39.689 And I can know that everything in there is always gonna be there 00:20:39.869 --> 00:20:42.029 forever in the shape that it needs. 00:20:42.029 --> 00:20:43.388 So and that's how I use it. 00:20:43.393 --> 00:20:45.068 I also use it as a task manager. 00:20:45.146 --> 00:20:49.520 We've got a great sort of to-dos system and hierarchical 00:20:49.670 --> 00:20:51.480 todos, which is super awesome. 00:20:51.507 --> 00:20:53.897 So like you can create a stack of todos. 00:20:54.837 --> 00:20:58.167 Which is within another stack of, to-dos, that stack itself can 00:20:58.167 --> 00:21:00.447 be a to-do so on and so forth. 00:21:00.476 --> 00:21:00.999 So Yeah. 00:21:00.999 --> 00:21:03.199 it works really well for keeping me organized. 00:21:03.954 --> 00:21:06.474 Mike Bifulco: I can imagine as an engineer or someone working on a product 00:21:06.474 --> 00:21:09.564 team, whether you're an engineer or a designer or a product manager, whatever, 00:21:09.594 --> 00:21:12.456 whatever your role is there's a lot of value in keeping yourself organized 00:21:12.516 --> 00:21:14.296 and, and making this thing work for you. 00:21:14.367 --> 00:21:18.428 Can you tell me a little bit about the storage plan for for Dash pad? 00:21:18.428 --> 00:21:20.189 So right now, is it local only? 00:21:20.189 --> 00:21:20.969 Is it cloud synced? 00:21:21.059 --> 00:21:24.179 Is it something you use with like Dropbox or Google Drive or something like that? 00:21:24.239 --> 00:21:24.599 How does it work? 00:21:25.424 --> 00:21:27.524 Drew White: Yeah, right now it is local only. 00:21:27.591 --> 00:21:31.084 That was a decision we made based on some, you know, early feedback that 00:21:31.084 --> 00:21:34.850 we had from engineers and, you know, companies being very, we, we want people 00:21:34.850 --> 00:21:39.148 to be very have the option to be very private about their, their data and 00:21:39.148 --> 00:21:40.576 not be sinking to and from the cloud. 00:21:40.637 --> 00:21:41.327 But as. 00:21:42.212 --> 00:21:45.119 Right now we are I don't wanna put an actual date on it. 00:21:45.119 --> 00:21:48.662 We do have a date for release, but just in case things get pushed, you know 00:21:48.662 --> 00:21:51.524 plus a couple of days, minus a couple of days, whatever the case is, we are 00:21:51.529 --> 00:21:55.742 rolling out sync in the very near future which will give users an opportunity 00:21:56.102 --> 00:22:00.795 to not only have data on multiple computers, but also we'll be rolling 00:22:00.795 --> 00:22:03.145 out our mobile app about the same time. 00:22:03.164 --> 00:22:05.384 So yeah, we'll have access to. 00:22:06.584 --> 00:22:11.514 Again, the whole idea is further reducing that, that, that friction capture. 00:22:11.521 --> 00:22:17.021 So yeah, we'll, we'll have cloud sync available for a pretty small monthly fee. 00:22:17.141 --> 00:22:19.301 I don't know exactly what it is off the top of my head. 00:22:19.302 --> 00:22:20.350 But it's very reasonable. 00:22:20.414 --> 00:22:23.724 And I think there will be a, a certain number of. 00:22:24.984 --> 00:22:27.894 Um, like free sync sort of things. 00:22:28.164 --> 00:22:30.684 And then the community version, which is non sync will be 00:22:30.684 --> 00:22:32.364 free forever in perpetuity. 00:22:32.694 --> 00:22:32.904 Mike Bifulco: Yeah. 00:22:32.904 --> 00:22:33.531 Very cool. 00:22:33.531 --> 00:22:37.517 Is there, so is Stpa taking the perspective that notes are a sort 00:22:37.517 --> 00:22:40.451 of personal trove of information or is there collaborative features? 00:22:41.471 --> 00:22:41.651 Drew White: Yeah. 00:22:41.651 --> 00:22:45.911 So I mean, our whole thing through this has been, there are so many 00:22:45.911 --> 00:22:47.781 tools out there for teams, right? 00:22:47.830 --> 00:22:47.920 And. 00:22:49.555 --> 00:22:53.075 There's very little for managing your own daily work. 00:22:53.129 --> 00:22:57.569 And so we have taken this stance that Stash pad is for you, not for 00:22:57.569 --> 00:23:01.409 your team, not for your manager, not for even necessarily the 00:23:01.409 --> 00:23:06.124 enterprise, although I'm sure we will have enterprise level customers. 00:23:06.124 --> 00:23:09.404 The idea is it's for the engineer, it's for the user and. 00:23:10.589 --> 00:23:14.681 That being said, we actually do, we used to have a a web app version, 00:23:14.681 --> 00:23:18.381 which was like version negative 0.1 or whatever you wanna call it. 00:23:18.381 --> 00:23:23.854 That does have a collab feature that we still to this day use for retro. 00:23:23.854 --> 00:23:29.104 And it is easily the greatest platform for something like that 00:23:29.104 --> 00:23:31.054 that we have experimented with. 00:23:31.069 --> 00:23:32.422 We've tried basically everything else. 00:23:32.422 --> 00:23:34.942 We always end up coming back to the old web app. 00:23:36.427 --> 00:23:39.127 So, yeah, there may be plans for, for adopting some of that 00:23:39.127 --> 00:23:40.880 functionality in the future as well. 00:23:41.390 --> 00:23:41.870 Mike Bifulco: Sure. 00:23:42.290 --> 00:23:44.668 Yeah, I think it's, it is a good angle to take or an interesting 00:23:44.673 --> 00:23:45.658 angle to take, certainly. 00:23:45.719 --> 00:23:48.349 I think a lot of folks gut response might be that like having a 00:23:48.349 --> 00:23:51.259 team collaborative tool is maybe the, the table stakes for them. 00:23:51.259 --> 00:23:55.807 But in practice, all of the companies I've worked at that have reached any like. 00:23:56.227 --> 00:23:59.437 Reasonable team size of, call it five people or greater, tend to 00:23:59.437 --> 00:24:01.147 standardize on like, what is easiest. 00:24:01.147 --> 00:24:03.593 So and, and by that I mean like things that they've probably already 00:24:03.593 --> 00:24:04.973 paid for within the enterprise. 00:24:05.043 --> 00:24:08.848 So that may be Google Talks or Jira or GitHub or like the things that 00:24:08.848 --> 00:24:10.559 are sort of built into that process. 00:24:10.679 --> 00:24:13.859 But what I also like about this is that by keeping it local and for yourself, 00:24:13.859 --> 00:24:17.609 like it, it, it's a way for you to keep your information, to grow your own sort 00:24:17.609 --> 00:24:21.442 of stack of knowledge and, and to build upon your own set of notes in a way. 00:24:21.842 --> 00:24:22.862 That is you flavored. 00:24:22.862 --> 00:24:23.702 I think that's really interesting. 00:24:23.702 --> 00:24:25.922 And obviously you can still collaborate with your team right there. 00:24:25.922 --> 00:24:28.132 There are you know, ways to get information out of this thing. 00:24:28.132 --> 00:24:29.227 It's not a one way valve. 00:24:29.227 --> 00:24:30.264 Yeah, yeah, 00:24:30.349 --> 00:24:32.539 Drew White: And I think just based on our experience using the web 00:24:32.539 --> 00:24:36.439 app, I can't see that not making it in like the collaborative use 00:24:36.444 --> 00:24:38.239 case, not making it into the app. 00:24:38.239 --> 00:24:40.811 It's just, it's too good to like pass on. 00:24:40.811 --> 00:24:43.327 I just don't know where it lives on our roadmap today. 00:24:43.419 --> 00:24:44.919 Mike Bifulco: The perpetual startup challenge. 00:24:44.979 --> 00:24:45.249 Yeah. 00:24:45.579 --> 00:24:47.589 When, When is it the most important thing to build? 00:24:48.129 --> 00:24:48.549 Drew White: That's right. 00:24:48.554 --> 00:24:52.599 And I think a lot of people like, I mean, we're a team of seven, so 00:24:52.604 --> 00:24:54.339 like we're, we're pretty small. 00:24:54.449 --> 00:24:57.929 And so we've gotta kind of pick and choose our priorities, particularly 00:24:57.929 --> 00:25:03.419 this close to our launch, you know, And so we're trying to deliver one thing, 00:25:03.569 --> 00:25:06.209 but a perfect one thing, and then we'll 00:25:06.269 --> 00:25:06.659 Mike Bifulco: of course. 00:25:06.929 --> 00:25:07.679 Drew White: the next thing, you know? 00:25:08.339 --> 00:25:08.699 Mike Bifulco: Yeah. 00:25:09.269 --> 00:25:12.621 So I'm, I'm curious to probe in a little more about the sort of API 00:25:12.621 --> 00:25:15.923 layer that you teased, cuz I know that the, the team listening to this 00:25:15.923 --> 00:25:17.303 will definitely be interested in that. 00:25:17.513 --> 00:25:18.233 What does that look like? 00:25:18.233 --> 00:25:19.923 What are the sort of hooks you're thinking about? 00:25:19.965 --> 00:25:21.765 You know, opening up APIs for. 00:25:22.275 --> 00:25:26.672 Drew White: Yeah, I mean, primarily the initial sort of main function of the API 00:25:26.672 --> 00:25:29.716 is intended to expand capture essentially. 00:25:29.716 --> 00:25:35.776 So the ability to send information to stash pad from basically any tool or 00:25:35.776 --> 00:25:39.590 any product, any project that you're working on would be the primary function. 00:25:40.460 --> 00:25:43.967 You may have some other functionalities that come after that. 00:25:43.989 --> 00:25:47.169 But yeah, I mean our whole thing is that the easier you can make capture, the 00:25:47.169 --> 00:25:49.869 more likely people are gonna take notes and the better they're gonna retain 00:25:49.929 --> 00:25:53.209 information and then ultimately the better they're gonna be able to work. 00:25:53.209 --> 00:25:56.327 So yeah, the, that, that'll be the, the primary function there. 00:25:56.327 --> 00:25:59.477 We're still kind of working through the details on this. 00:25:59.477 --> 00:26:01.097 This is on our current roadmap. 00:26:01.164 --> 00:26:04.039 And I know it's coming probably way quicker. 00:26:05.344 --> 00:26:09.050 We're gonna be . It feels like we're doing a lot of things right now. 00:26:09.050 --> 00:26:12.413 But they're all very good things and we're executing at a pretty high level. 00:26:12.413 --> 00:26:14.963 And so we're trying to maintain that, that momentum. 00:26:15.413 --> 00:26:18.855 So I, I'd be surprised if this wasn't out early first quarter next year. 00:26:18.855 --> 00:26:18.915 Yeah. 00:26:20.025 --> 00:26:20.445 Mike Bifulco: Yeah. 00:26:20.475 --> 00:26:20.875 Cool. 00:26:20.893 --> 00:26:21.848 I, I know your team. 00:26:21.848 --> 00:26:23.558 So you said it's a seven person team. 00:26:23.601 --> 00:26:25.371 And I, I know you've done some of the engineering work. 00:26:25.371 --> 00:26:28.182 I'd imagine there's a few engineers that, that work on the product. 00:26:28.217 --> 00:26:30.183 Can you talk a little bit about what dpad is built with? 00:26:31.413 --> 00:26:31.863 Drew White: Yeah. 00:26:31.980 --> 00:26:35.522 Stash Padd is built with react type script in El. 00:26:36.447 --> 00:26:40.256 Has our primary shippable form, and then the mobile app 00:26:40.256 --> 00:26:42.566 will be React native actually. 00:26:42.617 --> 00:26:45.707 So yeah, it's been, it's actually been quite a joy to work with. 00:26:45.712 --> 00:26:46.277 I know. 00:26:46.330 --> 00:26:51.508 Our one of our engineers who kind of does a lot of the electron work 00:26:51.538 --> 00:26:53.794 definitely has some grapes about it. 00:26:53.803 --> 00:26:58.200 He just wrote a blog post that'll be up on our website probably at the end of today. 00:26:59.280 --> 00:27:01.740 But yeah, it's, it's, it's a great tool and there's a reason 00:27:01.800 --> 00:27:03.120 that it's so widely used. 00:27:03.143 --> 00:27:08.045 And so even with some of the, the push and pull I think it's still a 00:27:08.045 --> 00:27:09.695 good option, particularly for desktop. 00:27:09.905 --> 00:27:15.035 And it allows us to ship to Linux and Windows and Mac kind of all in one go. 00:27:16.250 --> 00:27:16.595 Mike Bifulco: Sure. 00:27:16.689 --> 00:27:19.904 Yeah, I feel like the electron's perpetual thing is that as it 00:27:19.904 --> 00:27:21.194 does more people want more. 00:27:21.464 --> 00:27:24.614 And you know, early on the conversation was mostly around performance. 00:27:24.614 --> 00:27:27.595 You know we can't ship a Chrome browser for everything. 00:27:27.607 --> 00:27:30.297 But to be honest, I think that's become less of a problem in recent 00:27:30.297 --> 00:27:33.147 years as computers have gotten better, as electronic self has gotten 00:27:33.147 --> 00:27:35.607 better, as Chrome has gotten more lightweight and all those things. 00:27:35.727 --> 00:27:37.317 Or chromium, I guess not quite chrome. 00:27:38.142 --> 00:27:38.412 Drew White: Right? 00:27:39.222 --> 00:27:41.472 Mike Bifulco: And it's interesting to pair that with React Native too, 00:27:41.472 --> 00:27:44.586 which historically has had similar things and has gotten tremendously 00:27:44.586 --> 00:27:45.996 further along in the past few years. 00:27:45.996 --> 00:27:49.546 Like building for React native now is so much easier than it was in 2016. 00:27:49.557 --> 00:27:51.327 It's, it's a much, much more capable thing. 00:27:51.382 --> 00:27:52.495 It's cool to see that coming around. 00:27:53.260 --> 00:27:57.010 Drew White: Yeah, I did some stuff with React native, just personal projects 00:27:57.031 --> 00:28:00.859 a couple years ago, and I haven't had an opportunity to work on any of 00:28:00.859 --> 00:28:06.261 the mobile stuff Now my role is, is pretty widely split between design, 00:28:06.261 --> 00:28:09.850 engineering, dev, re and then some higher level stuff, product stuff. 00:28:09.909 --> 00:28:13.774 So, but any chance I, I get an an opportunity to, to work in app 00:28:13.798 --> 00:28:17.596 I relish those opportunities cuz that's sort of what drove me to 00:28:17.596 --> 00:28:19.306 this place in the first place. 00:28:19.786 --> 00:28:21.727 But yeah, the we're, we're pretty excited. 00:28:21.732 --> 00:28:24.690 We've got some, some really good things coming out and I think they're 00:28:24.750 --> 00:28:26.460 happy with React native today. 00:28:26.512 --> 00:28:29.824 The engineers are don't, I haven't heard much in the way of complaints, 00:28:29.829 --> 00:28:31.074 so that's always a good sign. 00:28:32.304 --> 00:28:33.847 Mike Bifulco: Yeah, I'll say certainly. 00:28:33.847 --> 00:28:34.320 Cool. 00:28:34.320 --> 00:28:37.657 So Drew what other things haven't we touched on with Stash pad that, 00:28:37.657 --> 00:28:39.834 that folks might be interested in if they haven't tried it yet? 00:28:40.894 --> 00:28:44.351 Drew White: Yeah, I think for me it's the, it's really the speed of the 00:28:44.351 --> 00:28:46.301 thing that makes it so much better. 00:28:46.301 --> 00:28:49.721 Like I, I've been a long time, I, I kind of bounce, I mentioned it earlier, 00:28:49.721 --> 00:28:54.516 I bounced around from app to app for years notes app that is and ultimately 00:28:54.516 --> 00:28:59.546 landed on Apple Notes just because of its, Sort of nativity as it were. 00:28:59.546 --> 00:29:02.355 But it was always kind of like somewhat of a compromise for me. 00:29:02.422 --> 00:29:06.093 But I've actually just, I mean, within the last six months have 00:29:06.093 --> 00:29:10.233 like fully transitioned into stash pad as a whole, primarily 00:29:10.233 --> 00:29:11.553 because of the speed of the thing. 00:29:11.583 --> 00:29:14.393 It's just uncanny, like I think all of our. 00:29:15.078 --> 00:29:18.438 Basic actions are sub hundred milliseconds or something like that. 00:29:18.438 --> 00:29:23.673 Like even like loading a massive list of notes is just ridiculously fast. 00:29:23.926 --> 00:29:28.519 And the other real concept behind it, like particularly if, if you're like a 00:29:28.519 --> 00:29:32.119 developer and you know, the importance of keeping your hands on the keyboard, 00:29:32.124 --> 00:29:37.264 like the thing is, is well set up you can navigate everything create, 00:29:37.294 --> 00:29:40.894 delete, you know, whatever you want to do without ever leaving the keyboard. 00:29:40.894 --> 00:29:44.879 And like, Super familiar, sort of key bindings that make a lot of sense. 00:29:44.902 --> 00:29:48.277 And so that's like another huge thing for, for me in particular. 00:29:48.277 --> 00:29:51.534 We also have like a shortcut, like a global OS shortcut. 00:29:51.534 --> 00:29:54.804 So you can open it up while you're, so you're working in BS code or your 00:29:54.809 --> 00:29:57.234 ide and you gotta take a quick note. 00:29:57.414 --> 00:30:00.444 You can just open it up without ever touching the mouse and bounce over to 00:30:00.444 --> 00:30:04.764 it, dump your note, go back to work, and just basically eliminate that context 00:30:04.769 --> 00:30:07.734 switching sort of moment right there. 00:30:08.864 --> 00:30:12.178 Yeah, I think if anybody hasn't tried it that's listening. 00:30:12.178 --> 00:30:12.988 It's certainly worth it. 00:30:12.988 --> 00:30:15.928 It's free, so no harm, no foul. 00:30:16.025 --> 00:30:19.132 You can download it, our website wws-padd.com. 00:30:19.180 --> 00:30:19.930 And yeah, give it a try. 00:30:19.935 --> 00:30:20.380 Let us know. 00:30:20.385 --> 00:30:23.371 And we're super active on our Discord server. 00:30:23.371 --> 00:30:26.952 We love getting feedback from, from users even when they hate it. 00:30:27.012 --> 00:30:29.382 Like we got railed the other day by some guy. 00:30:29.382 --> 00:30:32.142 He just didn't like the interface like whatsoever. 00:30:32.202 --> 00:30:32.562 And. 00:30:33.177 --> 00:30:37.167 He was, he must have sent like 10 emails yesterday, I think. 00:30:37.206 --> 00:30:38.826 But that's good stuff for us. 00:30:38.826 --> 00:30:40.446 Like, it's, it's good feedback. 00:30:40.446 --> 00:30:42.003 Like we don't mind it at all. 00:30:42.004 --> 00:30:46.888 So yeah, I, I definitely think everybody, if you're using Evernote or Notion or 00:30:46.888 --> 00:30:50.690 Apple Notes or Ulysses or any of the other ones it's worth giving a try. 00:30:50.708 --> 00:30:52.273 It's a different experience for sure. 00:30:52.276 --> 00:30:54.736 You may like it, you may not, but we hope that you. 00:30:55.831 --> 00:30:56.131 Mike Bifulco: Yeah. 00:30:56.191 --> 00:30:56.431 Cool. 00:30:56.521 --> 00:30:59.198 I'll, I'll make sure to drop a link in the show notes here too. 00:30:59.250 --> 00:31:01.580 And if people wanna chase you down, Drew, where's the best place to find you? 00:31:01.592 --> 00:31:04.352 Drew White: Usually you can find me at the Whitewater Center in Charlotte, 00:31:04.352 --> 00:31:06.558 North Carolina or at Fonta Flora. 00:31:07.248 --> 00:31:08.139 Also Shta no. 00:31:08.139 --> 00:31:09.309 Yeah, you can find me on Twitter. 00:31:10.059 --> 00:31:10.519 Atul. 00:31:10.559 --> 00:31:14.159 I don't, I, I, I spend a lot of time there observing, but I'm 00:31:14.159 --> 00:31:16.259 not like a huge content creator. 00:31:16.259 --> 00:31:17.099 I like watching. 00:31:17.699 --> 00:31:19.649 Mike Bifulco: there's a lot to observe on Twitter these days too. 00:31:20.179 --> 00:31:20.669 Drew White: Yeah. 00:31:20.669 --> 00:31:21.069 Yeah, yeah. 00:31:21.193 --> 00:31:23.893 And then, yeah, that's probably the easiest way to get ahold of me, 00:31:23.943 --> 00:31:24.303 Mike Bifulco: Cool. 00:31:24.363 --> 00:31:24.723 Right on. 00:31:25.023 --> 00:31:26.523 Well, Drew, thanks so much for hanging out today. 00:31:26.523 --> 00:31:28.293 It's been really cool talking about STA pad. 00:31:28.325 --> 00:31:31.123 Yeah, come back anytime, especially once you're starting to talk about 00:31:31.123 --> 00:31:34.484 like opening up the API taps we'll have lots of people with very interesting 00:31:34.484 --> 00:31:37.364 opinions for you, and I'm sure you'll get a, a bit of an onslaught in your 00:31:37.364 --> 00:31:40.124 discord for people with feature requests and things like that in the near 00:31:40.364 --> 00:31:40.904 Drew White: Perfect. 00:31:40.904 --> 00:31:43.484 We'll create your own channel just for you guys. 00:31:43.889 --> 00:31:44.339 Mike Bifulco: Right on. 00:31:44.699 --> 00:31:45.549 Thanks so much, Drew. 00:31:45.549 --> 00:31:46.121 We'll talk soon. 00:31:46.616 --> 00:31:47.066 Drew White: thanks Mike. 00:31:47.351 --> 00:31:47.931 Mike Bifulco: See ya.