Show Notes
FULL TRANSCRIPT (unedited):
1 (8s):
And Jen Bosworth and I'm Gina . We went to theater school together. We survived it, but we didn't quite understand it. 20 years later, we're digging deep talking to our guests about their experiences and trying to make sense of it all. We survived theater school and you will too. Are we famous yet? Sad for you that you're not in the neck. You're not in your little pod. No, I'm not saying, oh, you mean at the Al yeah. Co-working oh yeah. Oh yeah. It's a whole shit show. Like I, you know, it was interesting because I thought they're really lax about masks here.
1 (51s):
So, and I thought, you know, that's not going to go well, like the there's this thing in Pasedena where, and maybe I might be making all this up, but I think I'm right. That it's like a real sort of old school. Right. Wingy kind of a place. And like, and like, and like, it was a sundown town, so, which means, okay, so black people could not be out after sundown up until like 1960. That was literally a law. I I'm pretty sure there was a, like a law it's bad. So there's a lot of them, if you look it up online, there's a lot of these towns in, in the country, but like, yeah, yeah.
1 (1m 36s):
For, for, and they, of course, I'm sure they said it was for the safety of the black people. You know what I mean? Some garbage ass racist and they're not wrong, but it's only because the white people were killing them. I mean, like that's that's they were in danger. So anyway, anyway, that there's a trickle down effect, like yeah, for sure. And then I was like, oh, and I was talking in Spanish to the, to the woman who cleans. And I was like, you know, we were talking about it. And like, my Spanish is probably like at seven seven-year-old level, but I can glean what she was saying, which was her bosses told her not to wear a mask at the cleaning play, like while she was cleaning, because it made people uncomfortable.
1 (2m 25s):
And she was like, no way, because she almost, she lost, she said her husband and her kids all had COVID and she did two back in back a year ago. And so after that, she was like, I'm wearing a mask anyway. So now, so two people that had it reported, I mean, who knows what really went down, but two people upstairs in the w they were upstairs in like a suite, the people you can rent, like a legit office there. And so like, so it wasn't downstairs. I don't care. We share coffee, we share all the common areas. Okay. And then I started getting this massive headache and I was like, oh, like, but I always get migraine. So who knows? Right. And then my throat was hurting and I was like, oh, okay.
1 (3m 5s):
Oh my gosh. So I got a test, but here's the thing because of the surge, you it's, there's like, it's really hard to get a proper test, not a rapid test. I mean, you can get a rapid test for 25 bucks at Walgreens. The shit is like 50%, like right on. If you get a positive that's right on. But if you get a negative, it's a 50% chance with a rapid test. I was reading that it's that it's wrong. So that you think you're, you're negative and you're really positive. It's just like, we can't do anything. Right. Right. So it's like, so there's, so I did my PCR and I had to wait forever and that's okay in the car or whatever.
1 (3m 45s):
And then they were like, look, it's going to take a really long time to get your results because we basically, we thought we were done with this. And now I'm like, oh my God, they're having to scramble to get people and get people to read the labs. Yeah. Anyway, I'm negative. I don't have COVID praise Jesus. Hey. Cause I was like, yeah, but I don't think I told you this. My niece has COVID in Chicago. No, no, no. That's my cousin. Oh, your niece. Oh no. Mia. 17 year old Mia has COVID because kids at our school had it and got were, and she was, I think, got it from them.
1 (4m 26s):
And then now she has it. And she had, you know, it was scary. She's backs, but not boosted because there wasn't enough time between her vaccine. Okay. So she had a fever of 103.5 Bakst with this variant it's it's the variant. And they think, I think I remember telling me when you were in Chicago and, and she was hanging out with her friends and you were like, I can't really hang out inside with you because you've been just, they just teenagers and they don't, you know, they don't give a shit. Understandably. They're thinking about college and like, you know, she, she she's D anyway, it's not shocking that she got it.
1 (5m 10s):
Also Evanston, you know, my Alma mater Evanston township high school had 120 students in one day after Thanksgiving, get COVID test positive for COVID. Wow. So they're there. They're back online. Okay. Yeah. I mean, I'm just waiting for that to happen here. I'm sure it's going to happen at any point. All right. So I'm healthy. I'm healthy. I'm I'm relatively happy. I, yeah. So that's, what's going on with me. How are things over there on the east side of the world? Things are cold frigid, frosty, bitter, but we just, isn't going to get better.
1 (5m 55s):
Desolate today is somewhat of a good day because today is the shortest day of the year, which means after today, the days will begin to get longer, which I've just like, whew, thank goodness for that. For a lot of people, people were sad and not even people with sad that the solstice is like really important for a lot of press, but one of them is that there's more hope after today, a hundred percent. Speaking of that, you know, I also notice that this is the time of year where a lot of people die, you know, because I don't know why. I've just always noticed that like the end of December, a lot of people die and somebody that I was, I mean, we weren't close or anything, but I was friends with somebody who only in the summer, I wanna say, found out that she had bone, bone marrow cancer.
1 (6m 52s):
Is that leukemia. I mean, there's all kinds of blood cancers, but yeah. And anyway, she died yesterday and she has, so I don't know exactly. Maybe she was in her early sixties. So young, young, her, you know, she has anyway, she was a brilliant writer. And yeah, last night I was reflecting on the fact that I've said on this podcast, I'm not afraid of death. And recently I'm like, Hmm. Right. Rethinking this. And I, and I, but I did say at the time, I'm sure it's just because I haven't really had to deal that much with it.
1 (7m 33s):
You know, like my own before I own home. But then my sister died and she left no trace essentially minus her two beautiful children and people just start dying. I just re I remember in, you know, when I was in my twenties and people who are in their fifties and sixties were constantly going to funerals, I was just like, oh my God. You know? And I, somehow I chalked it up to that's you, you're weird. You're right. Instead of this is just what happens now. Right. I'm not ready for it. I'm not ready to just have a bunch of people die.
1 (8m 15s):
I'm going to say maybe that's what it is. I'm more afraid of other people dying. Like I, okay. Let's unpack this in the last month. I've been afraid of you dying three times and they're serious way. The first time was when you went to San Francisco and there was like this one period of time. I mean, it was probably like a couple of hours. Oh yeah. We were supposed to have a call. Well, are we actually, it's just that you normally text me back right away. And this time I didn't. And I just decided that you were, I decided that you went to San Francisco and somebody murdered you. Like, I, I couldn't be, I couldn't be shaken that.
1 (8m 56s):
Then when you told me you were sick, I was like, oh my gosh, she's going to get COVID and die. And then one other time, I can't remember the other time was, why am I, well, I mean, when my ovary, my ovary, when we thought I had cancer, maybe, maybe that's it. I don't know. Yeah. Well, and then of course, when you, when you had your heart issue, but, but re I don't know why I'm, I dunno. I feel worried about it. I must just be putting my worry about something else into my worry that you're into a fear that you're going to die. You don't have that fear that you're going to die right now. Not right now, but I feel really good, but I did, you know, it's interesting. I did see, I mean, this is going to be so crazy if I do die, but I mean, I will die, but because last night I thought, if I, you know, like I'm starting to feel really good about choices I'm making in my life.
1 (9m 43s):
So I thought, oh my God, if, cause we're driving to San pan, I was like, oh, what if we get in a car, car crash? And I was like, well, I would feel I would. I mean, that would suck. But also like, I, at least I, I would go out on a high note. Like my that's why I always think you want your whole family to be together. And like, you know, watch we die in Doris, live to fucking eat the dry wall on our walls and other day, anyway, wait, is she eating the drywall in your house? It's not the drywall, but basically it's the moldings around the, so I'm taping with white painter's tape. It's not good. When we leave here, whenever we get a house, it's going to be like, they're gonna be like, you owe us your security deposit.
1 (10m 28s):
You owe us $25,000, a dog puppy. Frenchies love wood. Like I said, we get her, all these wood sticks that are like fake wood wood. I don't know. But no, she wants to eat the molding. So we put her in daycare de Jesus on the cross. Okay, good. So if she, if you can't be in coworking, she can be in coworking. Oh yeah. Little. Yeah. I can't be messing around with that. So, no, I don't feel like I'm going to die. I feel like I feel pretty good, but I also feel like it was scary. Yeah. It was really scary to, to know, to, to feel a headache and a sore throat and know that people at coworking were sick. And then to here, I mean, this variant is insane.
1 (11m 10s):
It's insane. Everyone is. They were saying, I don't know if this is true. I read an article that said one out of every four, 3.5 of us is going to get it one out of every 3.50 M G. Wow. What a lot. And you know, I will just say, I will just say, I know I hate it. When people would say things like this, I'm going to be a person that I hate two weeks ago. I kept seeing everybody's going all these Broadway shows and every, and I'm like, really? That's that's, that's like, to me, that's just wild abandon, you know, because especially the theaters are small.
1 (11m 56s):
The seats are small. You're really crammed right next to the person. They're not doing the spacing out thing. And I'm sure everybody was wearing their mask, but still, it's just, it's, it's hundreds of people in one room crowded together, breathing in the same and also like crying and like all the fluids or laughing or whatever. Yeah. I mean, it's just like, so, and, and I, a couple of those people that I saw boasting about going to shows, I then saw that they posted that they have COVID. So, you know, I'm sorry for you, if you have it. And I'm not saying like, you're a bad person for going to see a show, I'm just saying, what, what did you think was going to happen?
1 (12m 36s):
Right. I mean, I think that it's interesting. Cause it's like the, what is it? Indomitable human spirit. It goes both ways, right? Like we're so, so dumb. And we're so, so hopeful, hopeful at the same time, it's just ridiculous. We've got so much puppies. We're still just dumb and haul super like, oh, this time it's going to be different. This time, the variant is going to be nice to us. Are you fucking stupid? The only job of the fucking variant is to mutate and try to kill us. I mean, that that's its job like this, just like that. So the way Aaron put it to me yesterday, he was like, what did he say? We were talking about it.
1 (13m 17s):
And, and I said, oh, every once in a while I say, I looked at him and I say, okay, so what's going to happen. Cause he's been right every time. And he said, you know, the variant figure it out. Oh my God. Like, I mean, I figured out COVID like, we didn't do it fast enough. He said something. He said it in a way that was really personified. Like the very, I just thought the variant is this, you know that in a movie, like he figured it out. He cracked the code and now he's unleashing destruction on the entire. Oh my Munga.
1 (13m 58s):
So I guess I'll be staying home for the next three to seven years, which is fine, I guess, because I have everything I need here. Yeah. My son said to me, I, cause I have a little cold right now. He goes, how did you get sick? You never leave. And I said, yeah, but you fools do all your germs with <em></em> Jeff Garlin you talked about him on the podcast. That's airing today. Of course, this is Jay. I think we maybe recorded it the day before, like the day before.
1 (14m 40s):
Yeah, he got fired from his television show, but it wasn't based on one incident it's apparently and he bragged about it. He said, oh, this is from something going back two years. So I don't know if that means that he's been doing this bad behavior or whatever it is. I haven't been able to determine what the bad behavior. Yeah. There must be like a really strong NDA or like a non, because nobody seems to know like what the behavior is. And I, you know, here's the thing I was going to say. Cause I've been thinking about this. Cause I knew we were going to talk about it. It's like, here's the thing about, and deniability, it goes all the ways. So it's not just good things.
1 (15m 22s):
It's undeniable. If you do something that is, is reprehensible. That's undeniable to like here's the kicker like be undeniable means also like we hope that you take your undeniable city and use it for good. At least that's how I'm looking at it. But when something's undeniable, it's like the whole fucking Holocaust as well. To me it's undeniable. It just, it happened. It's the truth. And so if you're hurting people, that's the truth as well. And it's gonna come back, it's coming, come out. We are like in the me three of the me too. And you're gonna fucking get got so like, yeah. Yeah. And, and honestly, what's, I feel like the trend is people who are arguing with these allegations.
1 (16m 11s):
They are, they're typically saying some version of the same thing, which you know, reading between the lines is everybody's too sensitive. You can't make a joke. And I was actually really grateful for him characterizing his non-apology in that way because it clarified for me. All right. Here's what happens every time somebody says your everyone else is too sensitive and they need to get over it. How I interpret that as I am. I my need to say whatever I want is more important than anybody else's need to have an, a working environment where they feel safe.
1 (16m 54s):
You know, when people are casting all these aspersions about people being too sensitive, what they never seem to understand is they're being sensitive about that. Like, we're just talking about your sensitivity. If your, if your thing is okay, it came up. Actually I had a real life experience with it. Another thing about, about content warnings and this person, we couldn't figure out why this person couldn't let go. Essentially, the issue is he's a playwright. We had this rule. If you're going to put up your play and it has potentially sensitive material, you need to put a content warning.
1 (17m 39s):
Now, the people who are going to see your play have a choice, whether or not they want to check into what the content warnings might be. It's not like it just gets advertised. So we couldn't figure out why he had an issue with this because we're thinking, well, it doesn't affect you. You don't have to sign up to see the content warnings. But what he was saying was, I don't want to even write a content. I don't want to have to acknowledge in any way that there is something potentially. And I thought, oh, that's a kind of selfish as I've never even thought of. You're so selfish that you want.
1 (18m 19s):
I mean, how I'm interpret. It's like, okay, so you want people to be upset. You get it. I don't get, I don't get the logic. If your logic is truly that everybody needs to toughen up, then mana you toughen up and write the content warning. So bizarre. And also it's like, it is also, you know what, and I think this comes from, I always comes back to me to like family dynamics. So that is this case of your being drunk. They always tell the child you're being, over-sensitive, you're being dramatic. It is really always, always, always to hide some kind of abusive behavior within the family, totally.
1 (19m 4s):
Or, or maladaptive pattern, whatever you want to fucking call it. It's always used. It's never used, like you're so sensitive. That's awesome. Let's figure out how to never know. I was told that over and over and over and over and over and over, but really what was going on was my family was hyper, super hyper dysfunctional in a way that they could not, no one could tolerate talking about it. So then I became the person that was, so to me again, like you put, posted this quote, I think, and it's like, you think you have a secret, you have no secret. Let me tell you something. There are no more secrets in this day and age. They're all going to come out, whatever you think you're hiding. You know, I had a dream about hiding a secret.
1 (19m 46s):
This is really crazy. So I had a dream that I, that miles and I were going to have a zoom with someone, a famous celebrity. And I don't even know what it was. It was some lady, right? The lady who we needed help from in some way, the lady bailed or she didn't show up and miles. And I were on the zoom and we didn't know it was being recorded. Okay. And while the person was not there miles and I started talking shit about this lady, mostly meat, mostly meat. She was very powerful and I just was talking shit. But at the same time, pretending that like wanting this woman's help. Right. Okay, fine. So in the dream we stop that and we think, oh God, she didn't show up what a flake.
1 (20m 29s):
But we, I had, I basically talked so much shit about her and then we get a message from her. And it was like this faceless, fancy lady that says, you know what, in the future, you should really make sure that shit's not recorded because I heard all, everything you said to me. And I want you to know that you needed to just why you needed to just say it to my face. And, and, and in the dream, I was like, she's right. She's at, like in the dream, I knew that there was no recourse that I had done something that was not okay. And that it was a warning to not do that in real life. Like I have never had a clear warning. So now I'm like, you know, when I talk shit, I'm like, okay, well just know this shit is probably recorded somewhere.
1 (21m 13s):
Even if it's in the animals of the fucking spiritual universe it's being recorded. Well, thank God for your dream, because what, how I going to take that is there's a moment coming up in your life where you're, you're going to remember that. And you're going to make sure that your video is turned off or make sure you're not recording or make sure whatever it is that you need to do. See our unconscious can be so helpful to us. No, I took it as a, like a, I was like, thank you. I wasn't like, oh, that's so, you know, I was like, Nope, this is what I am. And I think it's, and this goes back to the Garland thing of like, fuck you watch what you're doing. Like the time of just blindly doing shit is over.
1 (21m 58s):
It's over, it's over. And I don't care who you are. It may take sometimes quickly, sometimes slowly, but the shit is coming out. And for Jeff Garlin, it's like, you know, this went on for years. So this is clearly a personality problem and a behavior problem that, that you've been getting away with. And now you're not getting away with yeah. It's being chucked up to either that you're charming or, or that now you're famous. So you're untouchable. Right. So yeah. So Jeff Garlin, you know, I'm sure you have nothing but good intentions, but I hope you learn from this experience that you know, you to sometimes have to make yourself a little bit smaller when other people, you know, feel uncomfortable with your behavior.
1 (22m 48s):
There's nothing wrong with that. You can go and be a big ass person at home or with your friends, but not all, not at work. And also the other thing that's really interesting to me about this is that just, it's sort of the theme a lot in my writing, which is that like, who good people, whoever deems them good. I don't know, whatever good people do, horrible things, horrible people do good things. We all do a plethora of things. It's a matter of how I believe how we are, hold ourselves accountable and how we hold each other accountable. And sorry, there's like a fit test at the, at the second and PM right now.
1 (23m 28s):
But yeah, so like the theme of like, you know, it's interesting because Jeff Garland made a huge impact on me in a positive way. Right. But he has now made a huge impact apparently on people in a really, really hurtful, negative way. So both are possible. And it's like, again, how are we going to choose to use our and deniability? And it's up to us. I mean, like nobody nobody's forced his ass to do. No. Absolutely. And it's gonna come back to me. It's okay. It'll come.
1 (24m 8s):
Oh, oh, I don't, as much as I want people to be held accountable. It's not like I blame them or it's not like, I think that they're, I don't know. I think people have the wrong idea about what people mean when they want people to be held accountable. It's not like boom, right. To, or it's not, and I'm not burning anybody at the stake and nobody's getting, you know, putting the stocks. It's, it's more just like, Hey, you need to pay attention. So I don't blame the people who are doing these behaviors because I know that they grew up in the same culture that I did where these kind of behaviors were tolerated. And yet it's still time to move on.
1 (24m 49s):
But I wanted to share with you that yesterday, I was looking for a Christmas movie to watch with my daughter. And you know, there's not, I mean, there's kind of a lab, like a lot of them that I would want to watch, or the old ones miracle on 34th street, she's not interested in that. So we picked one that neither one of us had seen before and we watched like 20 minutes of it. It wasn't good. And it was ma it's called Jack Frost. I think it's called Jack Ross has Michael Keaton in it. I don't want to say it was made in the late nineties or early two thousands that was before his comeback with Birdman. Right, right, right. Right. And honestly, it was like watching a movie within a movie where they were trying to show the way that movies used to be so white male centered.
1 (25m 40s):
Like I kind of forgotten. I mean, it's, it's the story of Michael Keaton and his son and Kelly Preston's in it, but she just plays that, oh, you guys kind of fly, you know, and they're in the opening scene is this big snowball fight. And it's all boys, it's all white boys. And I just thought, wow, it's been a long time since I've seen a movie. But that was our entire reality. Like every single representation in media was exactly the same time, like, oh, nonstop. I mean, the spec, I look at this period, it's fascinating that you say of like mid nineties to the, through the arts.
1 (26m 22s):
And I, I, you know, my, my pilot is about the auths really. And that was the war. It was like, look, it was, it was the worst in my lifetime. I'm not saying it was, it was worse than years back. But what I'm saying is like for movies and media specifically, I noticed that I noticed when I watched that period of movies, it's all white, all, all dudes and like not good. Not good. Not funny. No. Yeah. It wasn't good. Yeah. So I know I was thinking like, you know what? It is a good Christmas week. I think she probably is a little young for it, but is my old boss, his movie, the weatherman with, with Nick cage.
1 (27m 3s):
It's not really a Christmas movie, but it's a family. It's, it's so good. And it it's about a family and, and, and Michael Kane, right? That's the British guy he's dying. And he comes to sort of reconcile with his, his son who's played by Nicholas cage and he, they have a daughter who's a misfit. And Nick cage has a daughter with him with his, and it takes place. It's filmed in Evanston and in Chicago. And I worked there when they made it. I didn't, I didn't have much to do with it, but anyway, it's hilarious. So if, and it was written by Steve Conrad who wrote Patriot and perpetual grace, which I was in. So that makes it so cool.
1 (27m 45s):
It's really funny. It's fucking funny. And Nick cage to me is really great in it and really funny. And it's about a marriage that is a little old, but you for, for, for your daughter. But I think that it, I think you might really dig it and I think it might really do. I'll check it out. Nicholas cage is a fantastic actor. He's in a lot of highly underrated movies. I think face-off was a very good movie. You've in it. Really good. So there was a P it's interesting. He is such a cult for me, a cultural phenomenon in that, you know, one he's so polarizing. So polarizing in terms of, is he good or not?
1 (28m 26s):
And are his movies good or not? And face-off is brilliant. I loved face-off. I happen to love a movie that he's in called mastic men with Sam Rockwell. I love like there's some real gems in there and apparently, and I haven't seen it. Yeah. I haven't seen it. I wanted to make sure I was telling the truth. I have not seen pig or truffle, or I want to watch it. I haven't seen it yet, but I want to, it's supposedly amazing. Oh, is it okay, good. And also, and he's great. And leaving Las Vegas. He's great. And true rump, right? Isn't true. Romance. Isn't that? Him? No, that's that's, he's he?
1 (29m 7s):
That's two romances Christian Slater and Christian Slater. Okay. What was he in? Was he in something with Patricia when he was married to her? So that's why people , but yeah. Anyway, so anyway, all this to say, if you're listening out there, watch the weatherman. It's really quite a delightful film and I, I and heartwarming. So anyway, and Christmasy I'll and I'll watch it and I'll report back with my, which you're fine. We can start doing that. Good. We good? All right. Anything else? I'm trying to think about like stuff that I L media VR, cause I'd been watching a lot of like television, terrible television, but some good television.
1 (29m 56s):
And I wanted to report in, what did I watch? That was really interesting. Oh, the documentary, John of God, about the cult leader, this guy. Okay. This Brazilian cult leader that like took over. So it is the story of a religious cult leader who of course ended up sexually abusing all these women. And, but the way he did it was just, just brilliant. Like, I'm not saying it's good. I'm saying it's, it's master masterful, lefty, crafty, and masterful in his evilness. And like, so John of God was this, this poor dude from Brazil who became a medium.
1 (30m 39s):
And, and the thing is about Brazil. It was so fascinating is like Brazil has this history of these different cultures of like, you know of, I don't think they call it voodoo, but it's like the, the, the indigenous religion and mixed in Brazil with like Catholicism mixed with so key, like did a mish-mash of, he liked tricked him with his mishmash story. It was like new age. He hooked in like the white people that like new age stuff, he cooked it. And it was huge. He had this huge center and then, and, and he legit, they can't find a reason. They, he legit like healed people like, oh, wow. So it's a mix. And that is just what I'm saying about life.
1 (31m 21s):
It's a combo platter, like legit. He, they can't explain even his victims. Can't explain how they healed like one woman, his mother. Okay. But that, well, that speaks to the power of suggestion and people's ability to, to have more dominion over their bodies. And they think, remember I'm in man on the moon when Andy Kaufman goes to have psychics is not what I call psychic surgery. And what I remember, I spent a long time since I seen that movie. But what I remember about it was that he, you know, he was doing it as a bit.
1 (32m 3s):
Yes. But when he was there and he realized that the person who's doing the psychic surgery is doing the same thing that Andy Kaufman is doing. And that it's an art and that he totally appreciated it. I mean, he died if he died. I don't know if people still say it was a hoax, but he had cancer supposedly. Right. And then he had cancer. So, you know, like, and I feel this way about the placebo effect. Okay. If it works, that's, that's great. That's, I mean, it's just about what, where are you getting to at the end? And if you believe that so-and-so is helping you with, I mean, is this the kind of like Santeria it is it's similar.
1 (32m 44s):
He liked to do his own thing where he like channeled and mediums. And, but yes. And he drew in from that it's, it's just, it's fascinating because this, this like the character of, and she's a real human, but this woman who, whose mom had a brain tumor, so she goes, and, and, and she goes, and this sexual abuse happens to her after he supposedly heals her mother. Right. Like he does this treatment on her mother and I'm doing quotes cause who the fuck knows. And then, but after the treatment, he's like, I'd like to see you load in my office because you're the daughter I want to give you, blah, blah, blah, blah. And abuses her. And then the next, like two days later, they go back to have another CT of the mom's brain and the tumor's gone and the doctors are like, we don't know.
1 (33m 31s):
So talk about that. Like, so she's like, I cured my mom because I was abused. I mean, it is so deep. It's so crazy that I like that all in, it's a Netflix documentary. So I'm just, there's a lot of documentaries that are out there that are like, if you like psychological shit. Oh boy.
0 (33m 51s):
All right. Well,
1 (34m 4s):
It's actually interview part one, Eric, back in August boss, isn't in this interview because she was getting a COVID test, but please enjoy our conversation with Sean Gunn for sure. 1000%. Okay. Sean Gunn. You're the first person we're having on for the second time. So congratulations.
2 (34m 31s):
I thank you. All that means is that I've continued to survive theater school
1 (34m 38s):
And beautifully boss is not here because she is in line to get a COVID test. And it's a very long line. She found out she was exposed some other way and she doesn't feel well, so it's not looking good, but so she, she passed along her, her thoughts and questions. So I'll do my best to,
2 (34m 59s):
Yeah. A little pressure of being the first repeat guests. I actually listened to my episode cause I didn't want to repeat myself. So I'm like wanting to refresh my memory.
1 (35m 10s):
Well then we're in the same boat cause I did too. So we're, it's all fresh. Yeah. And there were a few things that you had started to talk about. And the first time that I wanted to follow up with the first is that, you know, you described yourself as kind of an angry guy in school. And I don't know if you said this, but I gather what you're saying is like, you've let the anger go to some, you don't feel like you're in that same place, but what do you think, why do you have an idea about why you were in that place?
2 (35m 48s):
Well, you know, for me, the best way to relate that to my experience of being in school is that I was essentially still, you know, maybe a child is, is too it's too extreme, but I was not a fully formed grown-up yet, but I was still put in this position where I was putting pressure on myself to act like a grownup and to behave in a grown-up way. I mean, all the pressures that we had in school, they're like, you know, you're being fed to the wolves. You're, you're, you're an adult. Now you have to make all the decisions that adults make.
2 (36m 30s):
And as I mentioned, I'm the youngest of six. I was, I'd already put a lot of pressure on myself to act like an adult at a younger age than I should have. And you know, I was 18 and 19 and, and confused about a lot of different things and carried around a lot of pretty serious issues about my self, my self-worth, you know, and, and all of the things that accompany that. And I just put a lot of pressure on that. And I, it, it, the way I think all those pressures manifest themselves differently to different people, but in my case, it manifested itself as I'm a tough adult.
2 (37m 23s):
And I'm just going to be an angry guy who hates everything and that's going to be the defense mechanism that I use for navigating the world.
1 (37m 32s):
So yeah, it does make sense, but that's my kind of making me think, you maybe weren't all that angry, but you were definitely feeling vulnerable and needing the armor, maybe in anger was the easiest way to access it because, because anger can make you feel powerful weirdly enough.
2 (37m 51s):
Yeah. It's a way for somebody who's who for me was, I was incredibly small, like literally small. I was like, you know, I, I had a little bit of height, but I'm super, super skinny. I still am. But then, you know, it's like when I was that age, I was just like, I, there's not a lot of ways to gain power other than to be somebody that other people are afraid of. And if you can't do that physically, you have to do it mentally and you have to do it with, you know, whatever the tools you have at hand.
2 (38m 32s):
And I, I, it's funny. I remember David, I have colleagues saying in my very first meeting, he was my faculty advisor, I think first year. And, and or maybe it was just a, an acting class meeting. And I remember the first meeting I had with him just a few weeks in the class. He told me that I was like a puppy with paws that were too big for my, you know, when you see, like you see like a German shepherd puppy, their paws are way too big and they're stumbling around and they're clumsy and all those kinds of things. And he was using it to relate to how I used my hands when I acted in scenes.
2 (39m 13s):
And, and I think that the analogy kind of stretched itself just to how I behaved as a, as a person. And I was like trying to be a tough, angry dog, but I was, I was a little puppy, you know, who was barking and then going and hiding in the corner.
1 (39m 33s):
Yeah. But that's such a great metaphor because actually probably what was true is you were waiting to grow into whatever you're feeling now and in your sort of more realized, happier, less angry, whatever place. But what about using emotion when you're in theater school, how good or not good do you think you were at being able to actually access your real feelings for the purpose of doing a part?
2 (40m 7s):
That's a great question. And I think it's probably the, the way that I, that I improved the most in my four years at school. And I, I think I just sort of mentioned this briefly the first, first time I was on, but, but taking John Jenkins technique class in our, in, in, in my third year was super helpful to me. It's, it's probably more than anything else. That's the thing I think about now from when I was in school, it's something that I kind of remember. And to me, I have no idea what he would say that the function of that class was.
2 (40m 48s):
But to me, the function was to create a shortcut between my emotional world and my actual output in terms of my work and my, and my creative world. And so that, so that, you know, you hear a lot about what, what it means to be a, you know, to use the Stanislavski method or to use, to use these different techniques in terms of using your own, your own emotional, you know, a wealth of information and how to translate that into the characters that you're playing in the work that you're.
2 (41m 36s):
But it's hard to really figure out in a, in a, in a tactile way, how to really actually do that. And that class, I felt like I, I, you sort of learn how to do it. It's, it's really, it's a, it's a tricky process, but learning how to take what was going on with me emotionally inside, and then translate it into the characters that I'm playing. It's something I still work to learn how to do, but, but that's something that we talked about in school. And then I think I got, I got better at, and it's incredibly important if you want to be really good.
2 (42m 20s):
I think, you know, it's like you, you have to, you have to learn those shortcuts. You can't, you know, you can only be faking it when you're having your off days.
1 (42m 35s):
Oh, that's, that's the skill you rely on when you does this, not there for you.
2 (42m 39s):
Yeah. And I think that's another important skill, you know, is being able to sort of fake it when you, when you need to. But if you're faking it all the time, then it's not, it's not real. And I think there are people go too far in the opposite direction, you know, who are like, who, who just think that it has to be 100% real all the time or, or it's worthless. And that's also not going to help you very much when you're really trying to, you know, you need every, you need every tool in your toolbox to really make it work. I think
1 (43m 15s):
It's not going to help you, especially if you don't. I mean, the people I hear and read about who, who go all the way there, what I never hear them talk about is then what do they do for themselves and with themselves when, when the working day is over, I'm gathering that they do that. They don't do it, that they just stay there. And maybe that's something like being an emotional cipher. Maybe that's just a gift that I don't understand. But to me, it seems like that's roiling up and bringing up a lot of emotion that I just don't. I can't figure out where people go with it, what people do with it when they're done.
2 (43m 56s):
Yeah. I think that, I think that for some actors that can almost be like the drug, like that's almost the dragon that they're chasing is that they want to be so in, in side of it, whatever character they're playing or whatever role they're playing, they want to go there so fully that, that they just live there. You know? So that, that, that, that moment that feels a hundred percent real is there when they need it. And, and I, I understand that, but it's also, for me, it, it takes away from that that element we're acting as also a job in a profession.
2 (44m 41s):
And you have to be, you have to be in some sense, beholden to the production that you're a part of, and that are paying the bills for the, for the production, whether it's a stage production or a film or television show, you know, and, and your coworkers and your, your, you know, there, there's no reason why, like, if I have some process where, where I need to fully immerse myself in everything, that my character is feeling all the time, you know, for me, I have to do that with some level of compassion for my coworkers who may not have that process and who are showing up to set and having a sort of different level of, of, of, you know, a different range of things that they're bringing.
2 (45m 41s):
I recently read, I don't want to get off talking about something else, but, but I, I recently read this profile of Jeremy Strong. Who's brilliant on succession and this new Yorker profile where he's, she talks about how he used, he is fully immersive and how that can be. And you know, his performance on that show is amazing. But you can read between the lines and see that his coworkers have difficulty with it sometimes. And as somebody who loves actors and loves acting, I mean, I would, I would do anything to sit and have a beer with Jeremy Strong and talk about acting for, for three hours.
2 (46m 21s):
But I would also love to sit and have a beer with, you know, his wife, Sarah snuck, and Brian Cox and, and Karen Koch and his coworkers and their process is different. And I think that if you want to be the best of the best, you have to, you have to incorporate all of those things. You have to think about everything that, that your, that your coworkers are bringing to the table, in addition to what you're bringing to the table.
1 (46m 50s):
Well, you have to be part of an ensemble. I mean, succession is my favorite show. And I think about it as being a great ensemble, but then I also read that piece and I thought, oh, you're not part of an ensemble at all. You're just doing, you're just doing your Maverick thing, which, you know, I mean, the proof is in the pudding. He is a fantastic actor. There's no denying it. I actually haven't heard of ch I mean, so who else comes to mind with that Daniel Day Lewis and Heath ledger and somebody else?
2 (47m 22s):
Yeah. Or a number of, of actors. I think, you know, in the piece they talk about Dustin.
1 (47m 30s):
Oh, right, right. Doesn't happen. And they're all fantastic actors. And, and maybe there are some people who do that method and they aren't great actors. It seems like everybody, every great actor seems to have a, not every great actor, but a lot of them seem to have this method. And it just seems like, okay, well, yeah. But if, when you leave the set or when you, when you walk off of your scene and you're just an asshole, what have you really accomplished? I mean, I guess you've given a gift to the world, but what about the world that's right there with you?
2 (48m 2s):
Yeah. I mean, I, I think that that's the kind of, that's what you're negotiating, right. Is trying to, trying to do a little of both and it's, and it's where, you know, for better, for worse actors really are artists. They really are creating, you know, and, and at the end of the day, do we care that Picasso was an asshole that matter to me, that's a grand existential question.
1 (48m 31s):
And then there's this other part too, where this thing about being an emotional cipher, this, this, like people who describe themselves as some kind of a vessel, I've never asked anybody this question before, but do you, do you know what I mean? When I say sometimes you meet actors who are your absolute heroes, and then they're just the most boring person to talk to. Have you ever had that experience?
3 (49m 1s):
Yeah, I think so. You know, I, I feel like it's more common than that. It's the other way that people who, people who seem so sort of like grounded and normal and their work seem so like, just, just magnificently grounded in reality, and then you meet them and it's like, oh, they're not like in their real life. They're, they're crazy. Like, I, I think I probably have more examples of that, but, but, you know, it comes, they come in all in all types and, and yeah, I think there are a lot of great actors who hide inside the roles that they're playing.
3 (49m 53s):
And then don't, don't have much utility for being real people in the, in the real world and are probably boring.
1 (50m 6s):
So, so talking about technique or earlier made me think about two things. One, one question is what did you have to really shift in terms of learning, how to be an actor doing theater, and then having to have your second education doing film, what's different about your approach to the work. And then the other thing is what is the same or different about your process now, as it was then
3 (50m 40s):
The biggest difference for me is the technical difference, which is that, you know, I try to tell actors as much as I can, that, that the, that working on film and television is like working on stage. If they tend to think that it's like working on stage, but if the audience is two feet in front of them, but it's actually much closer than that. It's like, it's like a working on stage. But if the audience is in miniature chairs that are set up all over the plane of your face, you know, like if the audience is actually sitting on, you know, like the audiences right there, like, and navigating that technical difference can be tricky.
3 (51m 28s):
And it's why a lot of great, great theater actors are a little bit too big on camera. And, and, and that's definitely one thing internally. I don't think it, I don't think it should change a whole lot. I mean, in both cases, to me, your, your boss that you're beholden to is the character that you're playing. So in both cases like wherever this character is that your, your job is to become that person and to fully realize their experience.
3 (52m 9s):
That's true. Whether you're, whether you're acting on stage or acting on camera, you know, full disclosure, I haven't been on stage in like 15 years. So I would love to, and I keep saying this on my, I, you know, like my wife joked to me, like last week, I was like, I got to get back on stage. I got to go do a play and get back on stage. And she says, she says, she said, you say that to me about every six months you go through this phase where you're like, I don't know that I'm like, I don't know that I feel comfortable with everything that I'm doing and in order to feel better about it, I need to get back on stage, but I haven't done it in a long,
1 (52m 56s):
Sorry about that. The impetus. So you get to a place where you feel like you're just connected. You're at like disembodied you're disconnected from what you're doing. And you feel like going back to theater makes you feel connected again.
3 (53m 8s):
Yes, it does. And it's also really just in terms of the amount of time that you get to spend with your character being your character, you know, like, like I can, you know, this past summer I ended up, I did a, I had a short arc on a TV series and it was one of my favorite roles that I ever played. And it's a, it's called the terminal list. It's a, it's an Amazon series that's coming out early next year. And it was so fulfilling creatively, but it also lasted such a short amount of time. You know, I like, I did my preparation and the, and the, the scenes that were really the most fun to do were just over a few days of filming.
3 (53m 57s):
And, and, and, and part of it is like, you know, you just want to be in it all the time when you're, when you, when you love it. It's like you just, I, I personally want to be working way more than I'm actually working. I don't think I'm unique in that, in that way. Although I wonder sometimes if the most successful actors feel that, like, I wonder if Merrill street feels that way or, you know, like if they, she probably does, you know, but like, but like, I wonder if people who have the ability to be doing it all the time, want to be doing it all the time. I don't know, but I, I still feel like I'm, I'm, I'm sort of chasing as much work as I want to do.
3 (54m 45s):
And, and the idea of tackling a character and being able to live inside his body for a few months. And, and then, you know, night after night for however long, the run of the show is like that to me, is, is the most appealing aspect of it. Even more than, you know, just the fun of getting on stage and having the audience right there, which is also a total blank.
1 (55m 17s):
Well, that leads me perfectly to another thing I was going to ask you about a little bit of a thought experiment. One of my fantasies is that we could go back and redo our intros with the same, you know, the same cast and just, just for the experience of how well, for me, the thing, because I'm so psychologically oriented would be like comparing the fit, the emotional experience of being in the play, meaning that like, I'm sure all I was then was nervous and insecure. I could bring something else to besides that. Now, if you could do that or not just necessarily an intro, but maybe a show from college, which one would you want to do again?
1 (55m 60s):
And what do you imagine you might do differently?
3 (56m 8s):
My gut, you know, if I was able to go back and do a show again, that I did in college, my, my gut is to do the one that went past and do it even better. And that, that one is raising captivity, you know? And like I was a, I think that that show was super successful from a student perspective, but, but we were grained and young and, and I would go back and do that same show with the exact same cast, if I could, you know, like it's, I, I was, I dunno, 20, I guess when I did that show, but I'm more, oh gosh, this is so sad, but I probably too old to play that character now.
1 (56m 59s):
No, man, I think anything goes into Silver's universe.
3 (57m 3s):
Yeah. I could probably do it, but that, that was certainly my first instinct. I would go back and look at it. I love the, I love the concept of being able to bring, bring what we know now to, to roles that we played in the past. We talked about that on this podcast, we Kirk that, you know, that the thing that sticks out to him, I think more than anything about school is that we were a bunch of, of kids kind of playing dress up in a way that I'm paraphrasing. That's not how he put it, but we were like, you know, that like he's playing these grown men. And they said, sometimes old men, you know, I did this play porn guilty that I was, I was a like 80 year old man when I was 19.
3 (57m 55s):
And it's probably one of the most successful roles that I had in college because you know, when you're, when you're 19 and you're playing 30, you think that you're kind of, you think that you're kind of close. You think you're kind of in the ballpark, but you may as well be playing 80. You're no closer, you know, like, like when you're 19, you don't know any more about what it's like to be 30, then you know what it's like?
1 (58m 27s):
Yes,
3 (58m 28s):
That's right. Yeah. Yeah. That's one we did that show or born guilty. I haven't read it forever. I don't even know if it's a good play, but like, it was, it was a play about that took place in Germany about, you know, grown-up children and grandchildren of Nazis who were like grappling, grappling with their histories and knowing that, that people in their lives participated in this atrocity. And that's certainly a worthwhile thing to, to explore in terms of drama.
1 (59m 5s):
What's, what's the, what's the obstacle to doing a play now for you?
3 (59m 13s):
Mostly time. I, you know, I'm not, if, if, if I was in a place in my career where I knew that I was, you know, starting a movie next September, and then another movie, you know, like if I know my schedule and I can be like, okay, I can carve out, you know, June, July, and August to do a play. Maybe I would, but I'm not, I'm not quite there yet. Like sometimes I know some things in my schedule years ahead of time, but I'm, I'm also, you know, you have to be available.
3 (59m 53s):
That's kind of what I, it's kind of like, what I chose in terms of this career is that, is that, you know, you like, like, it affords a lot of free time, but like your free time could disappear at any moment. And I'm still, you know, I'm, I'm still, I'm needing to make sure that I make a living. I feel better about that than I have at certain points in my career. But I, you know, there's no money in theater. I hit that, you know? I mean, I hate to be.
3 (1h 0m 34s):
Yeah, I know. I I'm sure everybody everybody's aware of that. And, and so that's
1 (1h 0m 43s):
Yeah, no, that makes perfect sense. You, you would want to feel like we're completely set before you just decided to devote three months when you could be making a ton of money to do something that you're going to probably have to pay for yourself. So, so that brings me to one of boss's questions. She is really obsessed recently with this idea of legacy and what she wants her legacy to be and what people want their legacy to be. And I'm wondering if you ever think about that and if you have any idea about it.
3 (1h 1m 18s):
Yeah. Well, it's, it's kind of like what we were talking about being, you know, actors really are artists and it's, it's important to me that nothing lasts forever, but that the, the work that I do have some sort of value beyond the scope of my life. That's been a defining characteristic. I think of how I look at the world since I was young. I want, I want my work to people that continue to look at it and, and to see it.
3 (1h 2m 4s):
And the people, th th th I think that when you, when you leave something, that's your way of, of surviving longer than your actual life. I've always felt that even more than like I don't have children, you know, and maybe if I did, it would, I would feel differently about what is surviving from me after I'm gone. But I, I think a lot about what I want, but, but not in terms of what it actual, not in terms of what it actually is. Like, I don't think about that from project to project.
3 (1h 2m 44s):
I just think about the fact that I want my work to be good. And, and for it to survive after I'm gone, it won't survive forever. Cause nothing well, but, but the people will know that I was an actor and then I gave it my best. And then my work, you know, moves people in some way or made them happy or made them laugh or, or whatever it is. Like that's, that's super important to me, probably more important than it is to, to many of my peers, I think. Hm.
1 (1h 3m 20s):
That could be what makes you say that?
3 (1h 3m 27s):
I don't know. I guess, cause I, I, I guess because I, I do occasionally feel I'm haunted by it, you know? Like w when you, everybody worried, I don't know about everybody, but I think most people kind of worry about dying when they lay awake at night, before they go to bed, you know, and for me, the, the idea that I'm creating work, that's going to continue that after that is of some comfort to me, really more than anything else is coming.
1 (1h 4m 11s):
Yeah. I, I can see why I, I actually never, ever once thought about anything related to legacy, but my sister died the summer just like very unexpectedly. And she, there is, she has, I mean, she had two kids, but other than that, she has zero legacy. Like, there's zero imprint. She's not, she wasn't on social media. So you can't even have that. It's like, they didn't do an obituary for her. It was, it was just all the way over and that, so that was the first time that I thought, oh yeah, you do want to make something that lasts forever. So that there's some record of your existence.
3 (1h 4m 50s):
Yeah. Gosh. So sorry to hear that, by the way, it's such a, it's such a mindfuck.
1 (1h 4m 57s):
Well, you have a bunch of siblings. They're all still living, right?
3 (1h 5m 2s):
They are, they are. But my dad, just, my dad died about two years ago. And you know, I think that if one of your parents dies and it can't, it can't help, but put you into that frame of mind where you start to think about it.
1 (1h 5m 22s):
Yeah, actually that was another one of boss's question. She said she, she has the idea unless she's wrong that your dad and particularly the fact that your dad was a judge is a big part of your life or a big, it's very meaningful to you. I don't exactly know what she was getting at, but she wanted you to talk about your dad.
3 (1h 5m 41s):
Yeah, my dad, actually, my dad, dad was a judge and, and, and, but my, and he had, my grandfather had five sons. He had nine kids, Irish Catholic, and the, and the, and he had five sons who were all attorneys and, and it has a legacy of, of lawyers and judges and things like that. And up and down my family, but my dad, I don't know really where to begin with talking about my dad. He was really, really great and complicated guy.
3 (1h 6m 26s):
He did a great job raising six kids, a whole section of his life, I think was, was a bit of a mess. You know, he was, he, he had drinking problems when he was younger, even though he was making his way through law school and, and having children and whatever. And he got, he got sober in the seventies and, and th the thing, you know, he, he had a great impact on a lot of people. He's a really, really good human, I think a lot. I think if you asked a hundred people who knew him, what they admired and respected most about them, you'd get a hundred different answers for me.
3 (1h 7m 12s):
What I admired and respected most was that he continued to improve or the course of his life and to learn, you know, and that even at the very end, he never ever gave over to, well, this is just who I am and nobody's going to change me. You know, he, he tried to keep his eyes open and, and be a, be a better person all the time. That's kind of what it's about. Really. I think, I mean, if, if, like, if you're, if you're continuing to improve as a human being, I don't know what else I can really ask of yourself.
1 (1h 7m 52s):
That's your main job.
3 (1h 7m 55s):
Yeah. Yeah. And, and, you know, we're all in the entertainment industry and he had a big gregarious personality. He was the center of the room of every room we walked into. And I think that, that plays a little bit of a part in terms of his kids being entertainers, you know, even though I'm really the only performer, I guess.
1 (1h 8m 22s):
Yeah. But then this question came up the last time we were talking about, you know, at boss Y how do you get a family of so many people in the industry and, and w and I didn't know this bit about your dad. I mean, I, I would wonder if, listen, when people, when parents have big personalities, kids are wrapped and they spend a lot of time really just wanting to be on the inside of whatever the magic is that their, that their parents have. And one of the like pretty straightforward ways to do that is to not only perform, but to be in a position where other people are evaluating you in a, in a sort of like a, in a public way.
1 (1h 9m 6s):
And in your case, evaluate your brother and whoever evaluating you favorably must have felt good to for your dad, as well as, you know, you guys, th th the thought that you've been able to impress him must, must be a good feeling.
3 (1h 9m 24s):
Yeah. I think it is, oh, it's certainly a good feeling. He was definitely proud of, of, of all of us as he should have been. I mean, it's turned out pretty good. There's no, there's no weak link amongst us, except my brother, Matt, he's useless, but the, he didn't know. But honestly, I think that he, he was proud and, and he would be, I know he was, he'd be super proud in public, you know? Like, how have you seen, you know, talking about my brother, like, have you seen guardians of the galaxy?
3 (1h 10m 4s):
You know, my son, you know, have you seen Gilmore girls he's on, he was on Gilmore girls. You ever see that show, like, he'd be super excited to point that out. But the funny thing is, is that I think privately, he wasn't, he wasn't that much more impressed by that than he was just by the fact that his kids like work were, you know, good people and had good jobs and were good parents. And like, I think that he, he felt pretty, I think he felt pretty proud of all of his, all of his kids. And I'm, I mean, I'm just, I'm incredibly lucky. I'm, I'm way more. He was, he was very warm. He would cry at the drop of a hat and he was a very Irish, Catholic warmth.
3 (1h 10m 53s):
I'm, I'm less, I'm not quite, I have that in me. I'll never get rid of it, but I, I I'm, I'm just, I'm incredibly lucky to have been, to have hit him as somebody who I was able to watch and see how he did things and, you know, and, and see the mistakes that he made to your
1 (1h 11m 15s):
Parents seem amazing. Your parents. I mean, from what you've said about your mom last time and about your dad, they seem like really special people.
3 (1h 11m 23s):
Yeah. They're cool.
1 (1h 11m 25s):
So what kind of work art that you consume these days is really moving you?
3 (1h 11m 36s):
Well, gosh, I'm, I'm, I'm starting to try to work my way into, to be being able to have a little bit more, a little bit more autonomy in terms of making my own stuff. So my antenna is pretty attuned to that. My wife is, is an actor and a director, and she is, has just started directing her first feature and is doing this, you know, it's an, it's an indie, low budget horror film, which is a lot of ways, a lot of times the easiest way to start, because it's, it's, there's a market for it, and you can get something made and get people to watch something, even though it's on a low level and she's immensely talented.
3 (1h 12m 34s):
So we watch a lot, I watch a lot of things with her and we watch things that try to, you know, give ideas in terms of like, what, what, what budgets look like and what, you know, what I, how did they do this? How were they able to make this, you know, who, who financed it, those types of things. So a lot of the, they could for whatever re whether it's creatively or, or production wise, to be helpful in terms of like, trying to make our own stuff. But then there's also things like, like we were talking about succession earlier and we, you know, like if you're an actor, I think there there's nothing better than watching those, those actors, like, just like what they're doing weekend and week out.
1 (1h 13m 27s):
Yeah. What it is for you, the acting, or, I mean, because the acting is great. I, I just think the story is so compelling. And, and, and, and the fact that, like, what it makes me think about is that everything is just about family. Like literally everything is just about going away from and returning to, and fighting with and embracing family. And I mean, and I guess it's sort of loosely based on king Lear, so that makes it compelling to, but is it mostly about the acting for you? Is that what you love
3 (1h 13m 59s):
And the writing? I mean, I think that the acting and the writing, you know, ideally the great TV shows are just like this great grand dance between the acting and the writing, I think. And, and so I totally agree with you that just being a part of family and how it's so weird that, that not so little can happen on a show and it can be so compelling.
1 (1h 14m 29s):
I saw somebody tweet succession is an example of, or is it gives us hope that you can tell, not show sometimes, which I thought was, yeah, that's really true. Because as I go to write things, I'm on constantly, like, it's gotta be moving, it's gotta be moving. It's gotta be, it's gotta be going somewhere. It's not going to be interesting. But actually, if it's well written well enough, it can be, it can be a living room drama. Literally.
3 (1h 14m 57s):
I agree. My, my fear is that there's, you know, Tarantino movies are a little bit like this. My, my fear is that it's going to create a bunch of copycats that can't do what it does. You know, it's like, just because this show can have, you know, have a, have an episode, that's almost all dialogue of characters, like moving in, in space in one big room doesn't mean that you should do that too. You know, it's a, it's an incredibly, it's an incredibly tricky thing for writers to do when I bring up her now, because I think, I just feel like I've read a hundred scripts where like, it's clear that they've read Tarantino and they know that he can have a 10 page scene that is super compelling and works.
3 (1h 15m 51s):
And it's like, yeah, but almost no one else can do that. Just say, you know, like, it's like, he can do it because he's, he can do it. That's a skill. But like in general, don't put, don't put a 10 page scene in a car into your school.
1 (1h 16m 8s):
Yeah. And also like if you're writing something, ask yourself, have I seen this before? Because if you've seen it before, there's no real need for you to write it again. The thing that would be great is if you could write the thing that hasn't been written and that's uniquely your own story, I feel like that's something. And honestly, I think that people do that because they're afraid that what they have to say is not powerful enough. And that's usually not true. If you're called to tell story, whether it's through writing or directing or performing, then you, you, you already have what it takes. Right. You just have to like, that's what, but it's very hard to do. It's very hard to stay on the authentically you track.
3 (1h 16m 52s):
Yeah. Writing is such a, and you do more writing than, than anything we said that writers that your that's your main creative. And it's just so, it's so tricky. I've been trying to do more of it. I've dabbled in it. I have, you know, siblings that are professional writers. And so I know how, what would it be to be able to have that kind of discipline to, to stay in it. And it's so it's so hard. I would much rather somebody do.
1 (1h 17m 28s):
Totally well. Yeah. So, okay. So this is kind of a big question, and I know we don't have that much time left, but one of the main things that's happened in the industry in these last two years is just shakeups in every direction, maybe less so fulfillment TV then for, excuse me, then for theater. But certainly me too, had a big impact on the industry. And I've never asked anybody this before, but what's it like to be a man in the industry in the time of me to not, not being accused of any wrongdoing?
1 (1h 18m 12s):
I mean, what I hear some people say is they feel like they're just worried that they're going to do something unintentionally. What, where do you, where do you fall on that?
3 (1h 18m 25s):
I wonder, I don't know. I'm wondering, I wonder if those people had to have some sort of guilty, let me be fair. I understand that fear. I think that, I think that people, men in particular are more on their toes in terms of not saying the wrong thing and not saying, or doing anything that is going to get them in trouble. And mostly I think like, how great is that like good, you know, isn't that the whole, is that the whole reason for it?
3 (1h 19m 5s):
Isn't the whole, you know, the whole, not the whole reason, but the, but the, the best outcome of what happened with me too. Isn't isn't that, you know, Harvey Weinstein finally went to prison or, you know, that I won't name any more names, but that, you know, bad actor, a, B or C isn't going to work anymore, or has difficulty working. The best thing is that on a day-to-day level, people who have people who were subtly sexist and, and subtly, you know, well, it's not just sexism, but it's all of that.
3 (1h 20m 1s):
It's the, it's, it's the day to day stuff that we are forced to correct. To think about that that's, what's important is that we did, we stopped doing those things. I've, I've had those thoughts before where I'm like, oh, is there other things that I said, or did that would've been construed incorrectly for me? It wouldn't be, it wouldn't be actions as much as it would be like jokes that I'm in. You know, that I thought that like, you know, I, I don't think, I don't think I have any concerns that I sexually harassed anybody, but I may have made jokes about sexual harassment that were, that I shouldn't have.
1 (1h 20m 49s):
If we could have a camera on what was happening at theaters, we would all be,
3 (1h 20m 54s):
Everybody would get, everyone would be canceled. But like, I think that in general, it's mostly, it's mostly good. What I noticed on side is that people are a little more careful and a little more respectful. And that's what we want is for people to be a little more careful, a little more respectful, you know, what's the big, a lot of the times people that are the people that complain the loudest pretend that they're complaining because there's jokes. They used to be able to make that they can't make anymore. But it's like, is that really what you're complaining?
3 (1h 21m 35s):
The loudest?
1 (1h 21m 36s):
Yeah. Yesterday when the, I think it was yesterday when the Jeff Garlin thing came out and I read his comments that, you know, he bottom line bottom lining it and paraphrasing with it. Something like, you know, I interpreted was like, I should just be able to be who I am and everybody else who feels offended by it should get over it. And I thought, okay, good. That actually helped me crystallize the problem with this. Can't say anything. Mentality is what you're saying. When you say that is so that I can always be authentically who I am and not have fear about being who I am.
1 (1h 22m 22s):
You must not be authentically who you are and, you know, be honest about how the world is, how it's affecting you. And that that's the, that's the shift. I think that has to happen yet for, for many people.
3 (1h 22m 42s):
And forgive me, I'm, I'm actually glad that I'd been off Twitter for a few days. I don't know what happened with Jefferson.
1 (1h 22m 47s):
Oh, he got fired from his show because there's a couple of years of HR complaints, nothing like assault. And I think even maybe nothing like harassment, but that, no, I guess it's harassment, you know, just that he makes off color jokes. He, you know, he's loud bombastic I'm sure. But you know, okay. So it's not that it's wrong to be bombastic, but, but it's also not wrong to interrogate your automatic, you know, things that you say or that, you know, your automatic reactions to things there's nothing wrong with taking a look at that, to your point of what you're saying about your dad getting better. There's nothing wrong with just continuing to get better.
3 (1h 23m 30s):
Yeah. And from my view, by and large, most of the people who have, who have gotten in trouble, you know, like, it seems like most of the people who were sort of thoroughly canceled, there was very good reason for it. And, and the, most of the people who, it seemed a little more complicated, like a little dicier, like who got into trouble, they weren't actually canceled. They were sort of checked and have mostly gone on to do other things. And probably in that case, it's probably rightfully so. I mean, it would, it's not within my area of expertise to go through one by one and say what's fair and what isn't.
3 (1h 24m 18s):
But I, I think for the most part, things have kind of, you know, shook out fairly. I mean, you know, I, I, I got into my, my, my, as most people know, my brother got into trouble for old, old tweets that he wrote and was, and was, and was originally fired from guardians three. But I think that some of it was, you know, without getting into too much detail, it's like some of it was, was a knee jerk reaction to what was going on in the moment.
3 (1h 25m 3s):
A lot of it was unfair because it was stuff that had been apologized for and dealt with and like had been moved on for, and eventually he, he got re hired and I think it all sort of worked out. Was there some level of unfairness to it probably, but why would that be what we dwell on? I mean, how much fairness has there been from the other side for decades and decades? So I don't know. It's, it's certainly a complicated issue. Maybe, maybe you should start another podcast about just that
1 (1h 25m 39s):
Seriously, seriously, but that's what you're filming right now. Right. Aren't you doing? Great. Okay, cool. How is it going?
3 (1h 25m 46s):
Yeah, that's what I'm here, where we're doing. Guardian is three. Great. Oh, you know what I wanted to mention, because I didn't mention it on the, I couldn't believe that the first time on, I didn't, I didn't bring this up, but you know, I do, I do two roles in the, in the Marvel movies. I, I, I play Craig Lynn. Who's an onscreen character that had an expanding role in and in the movies. But, but I also play rocket, the raccoon on set and Bradley Cooper does his voice in the movies, but I'm, I'm there every day when we shoot the scenes. And, and I'm kind of there mostly to work with the other actors, but also to some degree to work as a visual reference for the special effects team.
3 (1h 26m 33s):
So that when they, when they see where, how rocket his face is moving and things like that, they're able to use, use what I'm doing as a reference, as a jumping off point for how to animate the character. Anyway, the reason I bring this up is that in the first movie, the way that, that this came about was I had been hired. I knew I was gonna read his wines, but we weren't sure exactly how we were going to shoot the scenes. And in the first rehearsal, I was like, I'm just going to get down on my hands and knees and use some of the animal training that we learned in school. If you remember, we all went to the zoo and watch the animals, and we would have to pretend to be known as animals.
3 (1h 27m 20s):
And so I got down and like started being a raccoon on the ground and was approximately the right. I have some weird limber. My, my, my hips are oddly limber, so I can get down to a crouch and kind of move around from that position really easily. And, and I was able to get down on my hands and knees and pretend to be a raccoon. And that's what worked. And you know, now I'm doing my, my sixth movie as, as rocket. And I just thought it was, I just think it's so funny. That's like how many actors that went to the theater school were able to use that, that animal training, you know, for, for something other than children's theater or
1 (1h 28m 10s):
That's, it that's that it, if you had said, if somebody had said to you, when you were doing that at the time, oh, this is going to pay off big for you. You might not believe them.
3 (1h 28m 20s):
You may need to put, play a record.
1 (1h 28m 32s):
If you liked what you heard today, please give us a positive five star review and subscribe and tell your friends. I survived. Theater school is an undeniable in production. Jen Bosworth, Ramirez, and Gina plegia are the co-hosts. This episode was produced, edited, and sound mixed by Gina <em></em> for more information about this podcast or other goings on of undeniable, Inc. Please visit our website@undeniablewriters.com. You can also follow us on Facebook, Instagram, and Twitter.
0 (1h 29m 1s):
Thank you.