1 00:00:00,060 --> 00:00:04,950 Doug: Christianity at its core is this is what it means to be a human being. 2 00:00:05,220 --> 00:00:08,280 I want to describe who you are to yourself, so that you will, 3 00:00:08,280 --> 00:00:11,940 can understand why you do what you do and where you're at. 4 00:00:12,330 --> 00:00:14,730 And then I'm going to tell you about who I am. 5 00:00:14,940 --> 00:00:20,670 Jesus says, this is who I am, and this is why I came in order to fix that. 6 00:00:21,060 --> 00:00:22,080 That causes all of you. 7 00:00:22,710 --> 00:00:25,140 Individual problems and tainted,;/ your soul. 8 00:00:33,000 --> 00:00:35,460 Jesse: Ladies and Gentlemen, welcome to the Salty Pastor Podcast, a 9 00:00:35,460 --> 00:00:40,290 podcast dedicated to helping you learn and grow in your spiritual walk 10 00:00:40,320 --> 00:00:42,150 and your critical thinking skills. 11 00:00:42,420 --> 00:00:43,769 We are here to be your guides. 12 00:00:43,769 --> 00:00:47,790 Ultimately you have to take that journey on your own, but we are here 13 00:00:47,790 --> 00:00:49,890 to be sages sounding boards and, 14 00:00:50,940 --> 00:00:54,300 sometimes comedians, to help you along your journey in life. 15 00:00:54,330 --> 00:00:57,210 My name Jesse Maher I will be your host and we can not do the Salty Pastor 16 00:00:57,210 --> 00:00:59,580 Podcast without the Salty Pastor himself. 17 00:00:59,610 --> 00:01:00,180 Dr. 18 00:01:00,180 --> 00:01:00,980 Douglas Peake. 19 00:01:01,140 --> 00:01:02,190 Doug: Well, welcome everybody. 20 00:01:02,190 --> 00:01:03,660 It's so good to be here again. 21 00:01:04,020 --> 00:01:06,600 With you today, right before Christmas season. 22 00:01:06,630 --> 00:01:11,250 And one of the things that I've really enjoyed doing over the last year and 23 00:01:11,250 --> 00:01:16,110 a half, I believe this is our hundred and 50th episode, 150 episodes. 24 00:01:16,500 --> 00:01:19,530 That's 75 hours of talking. 25 00:01:20,090 --> 00:01:21,470 That is so much talking. 26 00:01:21,770 --> 00:01:22,910 That's a lot of talking. 27 00:01:23,240 --> 00:01:27,020 But one of the things that, uh, is the hallmark of the Salty Pastor, the Hallmark 28 00:01:27,020 --> 00:01:32,720 of my ministry and the entire team here at Foothills, is that our goal is to help 29 00:01:32,750 --> 00:01:36,950 you grow in your face so that you know what you believe, why you believe it, 30 00:01:37,310 --> 00:01:43,160 because if you want strength, if you want courage, if you, if you want to have. 31 00:01:43,635 --> 00:01:49,155 Uh, character that allows you to not only survive, but thrive in the 32 00:01:49,155 --> 00:01:54,675 world in which we live the ultimate reality, then you're going to need 33 00:01:54,675 --> 00:01:57,105 to have more faith, not less faith. 34 00:01:57,225 --> 00:01:59,715 You need more convictions, not less convictions. 35 00:01:59,895 --> 00:02:02,145 You need to have more truth, not less truth. 36 00:02:02,295 --> 00:02:05,325 You need more moral clarity, not less moral clarity. 37 00:02:05,565 --> 00:02:08,970 It's the people who have these things who are the strongest, the most 38 00:02:08,970 --> 00:02:11,100 confident, the most courageous people. 39 00:02:11,310 --> 00:02:13,290 They know why they're here. 40 00:02:13,440 --> 00:02:15,150 They know the purpose of their life. 41 00:02:15,360 --> 00:02:18,120 They know the point of their life. 42 00:02:18,150 --> 00:02:21,190 They understand the ultimate reality in which live. 43 00:02:21,540 --> 00:02:24,315 They understand, oh, this is what a human being really is. 44 00:02:24,704 --> 00:02:27,585 Not under the silly stuff that the world keeps trying to convince us, 45 00:02:27,585 --> 00:02:29,355 but I know what a real human being is. 46 00:02:29,655 --> 00:02:33,644 And then as I'm created in the image of God, but I've been tainted by sin. 47 00:02:33,915 --> 00:02:39,295 And until I deal with that taint, like a cancer and get rid of it. 48 00:02:39,505 --> 00:02:41,835 Get myself in remission, which is righteousness. 49 00:02:42,135 --> 00:02:46,815 Then I'm never going to discover who I'm truly meant to be, how to truly live life. 50 00:02:46,845 --> 00:02:48,555 I'll never experience real love. 51 00:02:48,555 --> 00:02:50,685 I'll never experience authentic joy. 52 00:02:51,045 --> 00:02:55,425 And I'll never have the peace that surpasses all understanding and 53 00:02:55,425 --> 00:02:59,894 experience relationships, at a level of security that I never imagined. 54 00:03:00,225 --> 00:03:03,025 And so my trust goes up, my belif it goes up. 55 00:03:03,270 --> 00:03:06,930 And so the world is trying to convince us to have less of this, less of that 56 00:03:07,110 --> 00:03:12,630 be more malleable, being more, uh, have fewer convictions go with the 57 00:03:12,630 --> 00:03:16,920 flow, have fewer truths, have no trues. 58 00:03:17,070 --> 00:03:18,390 And then your life will be better. 59 00:03:18,600 --> 00:03:24,480 Is a bunch of absolute hogwash, toilet, water, urinal mint, thinking 60 00:03:24,660 --> 00:03:25,830 that we need to get rid of it. 61 00:03:26,435 --> 00:03:28,204 World right now. 62 00:03:28,355 --> 00:03:33,214 And so we're studying Christmas in order to show us how to have joy! 63 00:03:33,515 --> 00:03:36,155 Jesse: Urinal mint and Christmas in the same sentence, pastor. 64 00:03:36,155 --> 00:03:38,495 I think you're the only one that can pull that off. 65 00:03:39,065 --> 00:03:42,365 Doug: Urinal mint and Christmas in the same sentence. 66 00:03:42,365 --> 00:03:43,055 I love it! 67 00:03:44,015 --> 00:03:46,685 Jesse: Well, we are in our series title Jesus's Christmas. 68 00:03:46,985 --> 00:03:50,644 Um, basically the main point of this whole series is if you remove Jesus. 69 00:03:51,420 --> 00:03:53,490 Can we still have Christmas? 70 00:03:53,490 --> 00:03:56,490 That is the question we are debating this season and can 71 00:03:56,490 --> 00:03:58,500 humidity, humanity, not humidity. 72 00:03:58,890 --> 00:03:59,940 That's freezing today. 73 00:03:59,940 --> 00:04:01,320 Actually there no humidity. 74 00:04:02,040 --> 00:04:07,080 Can humanity become more joyful, discover more meaning and purpose. 75 00:04:07,110 --> 00:04:12,565 And on Tuesday we focused on the wise men, or the magi as they're called, who come 76 00:04:12,565 --> 00:04:15,024 from the east to worship the baby Jesus. 77 00:04:15,024 --> 00:04:18,954 And it was interesting to note that the Jewish leaders who spend all their time 78 00:04:18,954 --> 00:04:23,575 studying the scriptures, studying the prophecy about the Messiah, miss it. 79 00:04:23,604 --> 00:04:27,105 And these guys that don't really know anything about the prophecy are like, 80 00:04:27,105 --> 00:04:29,450 hey, we think something big is happening. 81 00:04:29,450 --> 00:04:32,080 You guys should really pay attention. 82 00:04:32,080 --> 00:04:32,246 Doug: Should pay 83 00:04:32,246 --> 00:04:32,330 attention. 84 00:04:32,330 --> 00:04:33,690 Jesse: So let's dive into that. 85 00:04:33,719 --> 00:04:34,349 What does that mean? 86 00:04:34,440 --> 00:04:35,159 Doug: Well, it's easy. 87 00:04:35,159 --> 00:04:38,610 I think that what this illustrated for us, what we kind of learned on 88 00:04:38,610 --> 00:04:43,080 Tuesday is that it's really easy for people to be driven more by a frame of 89 00:04:43,080 --> 00:04:45,270 reference or an ideology than what is 90 00:04:45,270 --> 00:04:46,500 actually truthful. 91 00:04:46,860 --> 00:04:49,980 In other words, we can have all these facts, but we don't 92 00:04:49,980 --> 00:04:52,110 interpret facts anymore. 93 00:04:52,110 --> 00:04:53,520 Just in light of the facts. 94 00:04:53,550 --> 00:04:58,140 Our ideology drives the interpretation of the facts and this is happening 95 00:04:58,140 --> 00:05:00,090 more and more, even in the science. 96 00:05:00,690 --> 00:05:02,700 Even in the scientist today in Western cultures. 97 00:05:02,700 --> 00:05:06,659 And the reason why is because of postmodernism and postmodernism 98 00:05:06,659 --> 00:05:09,150 denies any all objective truth. 99 00:05:09,599 --> 00:05:14,520 Now, the interesting outflow of this is that once you remove any 100 00:05:14,550 --> 00:05:17,760 potential for objective truth. 101 00:05:18,030 --> 00:05:21,480 Then it's just your ideology that drives you. 102 00:05:21,480 --> 00:05:27,060 And that ultimately ends up removing all the joy out of your life. 103 00:05:27,390 --> 00:05:33,360 Because what you've done basically is you've removed the capacity for 104 00:05:33,360 --> 00:05:37,710 joy to occur a case, uh, kind of a way to illustrate this is, uh, 105 00:05:37,740 --> 00:05:40,590 back in 2016 and went on sabbatical for about three or four months. 106 00:05:40,650 --> 00:05:42,120 And I have a cousin who has a house. 107 00:05:42,900 --> 00:05:47,490 In the mountains of Italy, right there, close to the, kind of the 108 00:05:47,490 --> 00:05:49,230 west coast, just north of PISA. 109 00:05:50,969 --> 00:05:54,090 We're up there in this house and I'm trying to figure out how to cook, 110 00:05:54,090 --> 00:05:57,239 you know, cause you got to cook food and you can't eat out every meal. 111 00:05:57,239 --> 00:05:59,940 It's just outrageously expensive for five people. 112 00:06:00,210 --> 00:06:03,239 So we go and I go, you know, I'd like to bake some bread because I'm not 113 00:06:03,239 --> 00:06:05,099 really a fan of the Italian breads. 114 00:06:05,099 --> 00:06:06,989 They tend to be hard and crusty breads. 115 00:06:06,989 --> 00:06:08,640 They don't salt, their breads. 116 00:06:09,850 --> 00:06:11,670 I used some good old American bread. 117 00:06:11,980 --> 00:06:15,860 Jesse: So white wonder bread is what you're looking for I believe. 118 00:06:15,860 --> 00:06:18,350 Doug: Soft and fluffy with some salt in it. 119 00:06:18,590 --> 00:06:22,100 I just think it, yeah, bread has meant to have butter on it and not use to 120 00:06:22,130 --> 00:06:26,720 lock up that Italian gravy stupid stuff. 121 00:06:26,840 --> 00:06:31,804 So anyway, I went there and I bought, I bought some, uh, Some flower, you know, 122 00:06:31,804 --> 00:06:34,414 Zac and I went to the store, we bought some flour and then we bring it home. 123 00:06:34,414 --> 00:06:36,695 And so I put it in there and I do all this stuff. 124 00:06:36,935 --> 00:06:40,474 And then I'm, you know, I put yeast in it and stuff and I'm waiting for 125 00:06:40,474 --> 00:06:42,455 it to rise and it will never rise. 126 00:06:43,145 --> 00:06:45,215 It never, I, and then I bake it. 127 00:06:45,215 --> 00:06:46,534 It was hard and thick. 128 00:06:46,534 --> 00:06:49,235 And I was like, man, this is crazy. 129 00:06:49,414 --> 00:06:52,505 So I, that was one of the big frustrations of my life in Italy 130 00:06:52,505 --> 00:06:53,735 is that I couldn't bake bread. 131 00:06:53,974 --> 00:06:54,925 So I get. 132 00:06:56,159 --> 00:07:01,320 And something popped up and I looked on, uh, this thing about baking bread or 133 00:07:01,320 --> 00:07:05,400 buying flour in Italy or something like that, uh, is right after we got back. 134 00:07:05,550 --> 00:07:07,950 And there was an article in there, says no, when you go to the store 135 00:07:07,950 --> 00:07:12,810 and buy flour, you know, the thing you have to realize is, uh, Italians 136 00:07:13,050 --> 00:07:14,969 make multiple kinds of flowers. 137 00:07:15,240 --> 00:07:18,810 And one very important flower to them is pizza, crust, flour. 138 00:07:19,320 --> 00:07:19,830 Okay. 139 00:07:20,100 --> 00:07:23,480 And pizza crust flour is designed to not rise. 140 00:07:24,075 --> 00:07:27,945 Even if you put yeast in it and guess what flour we bought, pizza, 141 00:07:27,945 --> 00:07:29,175 crust, pizza, crust, flour, bread. 142 00:07:29,175 --> 00:07:30,335 Jesse: Pizza bread. 143 00:07:30,335 --> 00:07:31,015 Doug: I had a pizza 144 00:07:31,035 --> 00:07:33,245 of bread, you know, I said, that's all I had. 145 00:07:33,265 --> 00:07:37,845 I go, that's it is, I got the wrong flower. 146 00:07:37,845 --> 00:07:38,895 So it never rose. 147 00:07:39,495 --> 00:07:42,645 If you don't have objective truth, you'll never have joy. 148 00:07:43,275 --> 00:07:47,445 It will never rise up in your life because you're using flour that cannot rise. 149 00:07:47,474 --> 00:07:49,365 It's designed not to rise. 150 00:07:49,544 --> 00:07:53,865 When you get rid of objective truth, people who do this have one goal in 151 00:07:53,865 --> 00:07:56,414 mind, and that is to create chaos. 152 00:07:56,684 --> 00:08:00,990 They say the opposite, but when you read what they write, you end 153 00:08:00,990 --> 00:08:03,060 up realizing it's about nihilism. 154 00:08:03,090 --> 00:08:06,990 It's all about meaninglessness and that's what they want. 155 00:08:07,110 --> 00:08:08,310 That's their goal. 156 00:08:08,400 --> 00:08:10,680 That's their frame of reference. 157 00:08:10,770 --> 00:08:15,150 So what does the Wiseman tell us is that even in religious communities, 158 00:08:15,150 --> 00:08:20,340 people can be driven more by ideology, then they can be driven by truth. 159 00:08:20,580 --> 00:08:26,775 And the objective truth is this Christmas story is about God, leaving heaven to 160 00:08:26,775 --> 00:08:30,075 come to people in order to redeem them. 161 00:08:30,585 --> 00:08:32,705 To help save them from the taint. 162 00:08:32,954 --> 00:08:33,405 Right. 163 00:08:33,855 --> 00:08:38,204 So that they can become who they were meant to be like Jesus was 164 00:08:38,204 --> 00:08:40,755 the most fully human being, right. 165 00:08:40,995 --> 00:08:43,304 That has ever walked the face of the earth. 166 00:08:43,544 --> 00:08:48,225 When you look at Jesus you go, ooo, that guy, man, he was a full human being. 167 00:08:48,435 --> 00:08:49,755 We all aspire to that. 168 00:08:49,755 --> 00:08:54,195 It's the highest ideals of what it means to be a human being. 169 00:08:54,735 --> 00:09:00,195 And in doing that, that basic truth right there, the objective truth of the 170 00:09:00,195 --> 00:09:02,695 Christmas story elevates the individual. 171 00:09:03,105 --> 00:09:06,824 It absolutely elevates the value of the individual. 172 00:09:06,885 --> 00:09:11,594 And elevates the value of Jesse, of Doug, of, uh, the people who 173 00:09:11,594 --> 00:09:16,604 work on your staff, you know, Finn or Jeremy or whoever it elevates, 174 00:09:16,905 --> 00:09:21,734 every single it elevates the value of the homeless person, dealing 175 00:09:21,734 --> 00:09:24,734 with a mental illness and drug addiction that sleeps under a bridge. 176 00:09:25,125 --> 00:09:29,625 It raises the value of the person who's a president of the United States. 177 00:09:29,775 --> 00:09:34,285 And everything, every person in between. 178 00:09:34,635 --> 00:09:39,795 And so it is that principle of the gospel that we celebrate on 179 00:09:39,795 --> 00:09:42,375 Christmas at its core and its purity. 180 00:09:42,675 --> 00:09:48,045 So, and what that does is that weaves its way out into the hearts and minds of 181 00:09:48,045 --> 00:09:52,185 people until you see massive movements, where do you think the principle of 182 00:09:52,185 --> 00:09:54,165 individual sovereignty comes from? 183 00:09:54,525 --> 00:09:56,055 You know, it doesn't come from. 184 00:09:56,865 --> 00:09:58,215 It doesn't come from a world. 185 00:09:58,215 --> 00:10:05,535 That is, uh, uh, post-modern what happens is, is that the principle of 186 00:10:05,564 --> 00:10:11,325 individual sovereignty comes from this elevation of individuals as valuable 187 00:10:11,325 --> 00:10:13,545 in the eyes of God, you matter to God. 188 00:10:13,995 --> 00:10:14,325 Right. 189 00:10:14,685 --> 00:10:16,785 You matter to God. 190 00:10:17,205 --> 00:10:23,595 And that's what individual sovereignty is based on that each human being has a soul. 191 00:10:24,449 --> 00:10:25,050 Okay. 192 00:10:25,290 --> 00:10:29,310 So, so let's just say, for instance, you know, just recently in our society, 193 00:10:29,310 --> 00:10:35,880 people are saying, well, uh, these lives matter, you know, uh, gay lives matter 194 00:10:35,880 --> 00:10:40,140 or transgender guys matter, men or black lives mattered or Asian lives mattered. 195 00:10:40,140 --> 00:10:42,569 And, you know, and then there became a debate that, well, if 196 00:10:42,569 --> 00:10:47,069 you say all lives matter, then that gets rid of something else. 197 00:10:47,069 --> 00:10:50,400 And we talked about this early on in the podcasting, back in those early 198 00:10:50,400 --> 00:10:53,579 episodes when we started podcasting a year and a half ago, and that was. 199 00:10:54,670 --> 00:11:01,350 Simply this is that in the eyes of God, it doesn't matter what you think about 200 00:11:01,350 --> 00:11:03,060 yourself or how you identify yourself. 201 00:11:03,060 --> 00:11:05,520 So maybe you think yourself, well, I'm a gay person and 202 00:11:05,520 --> 00:11:06,480 that's how I want to identify. 203 00:11:06,630 --> 00:11:07,410 You may think of yourself. 204 00:11:07,410 --> 00:11:11,880 Well, this is my ethnicity, you know, I'm an Asian, um, you know, I'm an American 205 00:11:11,880 --> 00:11:19,405 Indian, um, I'm, uh, maybe, uh, an Asian person, maybe I'm a, person from Africa. 206 00:11:19,405 --> 00:11:21,655 So I'm, African-American maybe I'm black, so I'm black. 207 00:11:21,655 --> 00:11:26,725 I mean, maybe I'm Hispanic or Latino and you, if, if you, however you 208 00:11:26,725 --> 00:11:29,814 identify, you have to start from the premise that you matter to God. 209 00:11:30,564 --> 00:11:32,814 So everybody matters to God. 210 00:11:33,175 --> 00:11:38,805 So as a Christian, we can't, you know, say one group matters to 211 00:11:38,805 --> 00:11:41,625 God more than the other, then we've departed from the gospel. 212 00:11:42,045 --> 00:11:42,705 So we've departed. 213 00:11:42,885 --> 00:11:45,195 So when we talked about this early on, you can go back and listen to 214 00:11:45,195 --> 00:11:47,595 those episodes early on if you'd like. 215 00:11:47,925 --> 00:11:51,915 And so that's really critical to understand, but there is a 216 00:11:51,915 --> 00:11:58,395 movement in Western culture today that is seeking to eradicate the 217 00:11:58,395 --> 00:12:00,055 sovereignty of the individual. 218 00:12:01,045 --> 00:12:04,724 They call it progressivism, but it's not progressive at all. 219 00:12:04,724 --> 00:12:07,515 It's actually re- aggressive. 220 00:12:07,574 --> 00:12:12,435 It's going back to ideologies from 500 years ago, a thousand 221 00:12:12,435 --> 00:12:17,834 years ago, 2000 years ago that broke people down into groups. 222 00:12:17,895 --> 00:12:21,854 You know, hierarchies of groups, your only value is dependent upon 223 00:12:21,854 --> 00:12:25,125 what group they associate you with. 224 00:12:25,365 --> 00:12:27,735 And so they're doing this over and over again. 225 00:12:28,860 --> 00:12:33,990 And in order to do this, what they have to do is they have to eradicate 226 00:12:34,380 --> 00:12:36,780 this notion of individual sovereignty. 227 00:12:36,870 --> 00:12:37,469 Okay. 228 00:12:37,890 --> 00:12:40,050 And they have to go back to it. 229 00:12:40,260 --> 00:12:44,010 Now it may not be as difficult as you think because the whole notion of personal 230 00:12:44,010 --> 00:12:48,930 sovereignty protected in a constitution or a government document is very unique. 231 00:12:49,050 --> 00:12:51,660 It didn't exist until 250 years ago. 232 00:12:52,410 --> 00:12:56,610 So you look at seven to 8,000 years of recorded human history. 233 00:12:58,185 --> 00:13:02,235 And you don't have that ever until now we were the great experiment. 234 00:13:02,265 --> 00:13:03,615 We were the great experiment. 235 00:13:03,885 --> 00:13:07,064 And so what's interesting though, is that even Western civilization cultures 236 00:13:07,064 --> 00:13:11,235 now are trying to eradicate this notion of individual sought us sovereignty, 237 00:13:11,235 --> 00:13:13,964 particularly as it comes up in the notion of celebrating Christmas. 238 00:13:14,569 --> 00:13:19,040 You know, let's let's secularize and sterilize Christmas so that we 239 00:13:19,040 --> 00:13:20,930 can maintain all of the good stuff. 240 00:13:20,930 --> 00:13:21,319 Right. 241 00:13:21,920 --> 00:13:26,120 And that we think is good and get rid of all the stuff that we 242 00:13:26,120 --> 00:13:27,470 don't like or think is offensive. 243 00:13:27,470 --> 00:13:30,380 But the problem is if you get rid of what you think is offensive, 244 00:13:30,380 --> 00:13:33,410 you actually get rid of all the good stuff they go hand in hand. 245 00:13:33,620 --> 00:13:37,490 You can't have one without the other. 246 00:13:37,680 --> 00:13:40,130 I was just reading an article about a, 247 00:13:41,535 --> 00:13:47,385 uh, there was the European union and they commissioned the European commission 248 00:13:47,385 --> 00:13:51,315 and the European union rolled out a 32 page document in October titled 249 00:13:51,705 --> 00:13:54,825 Guidelines On Inclusive Communication. 250 00:13:55,425 --> 00:13:59,445 And it featured a kind of inclusion that aims to exclude an entirely 251 00:13:59,445 --> 00:14:03,295 erase the Christmas holiday and Christianity in general. 252 00:14:03,985 --> 00:14:07,740 They quote from the document, "not everyone celebrates the Christian holidays 253 00:14:07,770 --> 00:14:12,510 and not all Christians celebrate them on the same dates", said the document, which 254 00:14:12,510 --> 00:14:16,740 encouraged people to replace the word Christmas with holiday and Christmas time 255 00:14:16,740 --> 00:14:21,900 with holiday time, it councils speakers to avoid divisive phrases, such as ladies 256 00:14:21,900 --> 00:14:28,020 and gentlemen, which furthers the general ba, uh, the gender binary problem. 257 00:14:28,140 --> 00:14:31,920 The EU leadership said that the speech or stick restrictions will help create. 258 00:14:32,440 --> 00:14:34,150 A union of equality. 259 00:14:34,810 --> 00:14:37,820 So you see, this is the reasoning and that is, is that well, 260 00:14:37,820 --> 00:14:39,460 we're going to be more at peace. 261 00:14:39,460 --> 00:14:41,410 We're going to be more equal. 262 00:14:41,500 --> 00:14:43,300 We're going to be more on the same page. 263 00:14:43,330 --> 00:14:49,000 If we get rid of these objective truths from which all of these 264 00:14:49,060 --> 00:14:54,220 principles have come from, and the guidelines were published by 265 00:14:54,220 --> 00:14:57,060 an Italian paper called Aljilani, 266 00:14:57,420 --> 00:14:59,670 and it was on the first Monday of advent. 267 00:15:00,000 --> 00:15:02,910 So on the first Monday of the advent season, which is a celebration of 268 00:15:02,910 --> 00:15:07,530 Christmas, there was this massive backlash all across Europe. 269 00:15:07,800 --> 00:15:11,280 As a matter of fact, it was such a big deal that the Pope came out and the 270 00:15:11,280 --> 00:15:16,980 Pope said this stuff is like the attempt to erase Christianity and Christian 271 00:15:16,980 --> 00:15:23,190 holidays to the Nazis and communists totalitarian regimes of the recent past. 272 00:15:24,405 --> 00:15:25,935 Boy Pope Francis was not, 273 00:15:26,265 --> 00:15:27,165 Jesse: He got salty! 274 00:15:27,165 --> 00:15:28,125 Doug: He got Salty. 275 00:15:28,125 --> 00:15:29,565 Jesse: Must been listening to the podcast. 276 00:15:29,655 --> 00:15:31,485 Doug: He, this is what he says in history. 277 00:15:31,485 --> 00:15:36,285 Many, many, many dictatorships have high have tried to do this very thing. 278 00:15:36,525 --> 00:15:37,905 He said, think of Napoleon. 279 00:15:37,965 --> 00:15:42,255 And from there, think of the Nazi dictatorship, think of 280 00:15:42,375 --> 00:15:44,385 the communist dictatorship. 281 00:15:44,835 --> 00:15:49,455 And so I think it's really important to understand is that our celebration of 282 00:15:49,455 --> 00:15:51,455 Christmas is that we're celebrating Jesus. 283 00:15:51,995 --> 00:15:53,175 Not all the fun stuff. 284 00:15:53,205 --> 00:15:55,395 What we're celebrating is where it all comes from. 285 00:15:55,815 --> 00:15:58,305 And let's never forget that because Jesus Christmas, why don't you get 286 00:15:58,305 --> 00:16:03,615 rid of Jesus, all that other stuff you've got dough that will never 287 00:16:03,885 --> 00:16:04,635 rise. 288 00:16:05,175 --> 00:16:08,745 Jesse: So let's talk a little bit more about this idea that this 289 00:16:09,375 --> 00:16:14,445 quote, unquote progressivism, uh, furthering, or trying to remove 290 00:16:14,445 --> 00:16:17,835 Jesus from, uh, Christmas altogether. 291 00:16:17,835 --> 00:16:23,550 Why do they seek to secularize the society as a whole? 292 00:16:23,550 --> 00:16:29,250 Like why what's the, what's the reasoning behind it besides this idea of being more 293 00:16:29,250 --> 00:16:29,850 inclusive? 294 00:16:30,250 --> 00:16:33,830 Doug: Well, I think, you know, the secularism, the 295 00:16:33,850 --> 00:16:35,860 syllogism, the logic goes like. 296 00:16:35,860 --> 00:16:40,990 This things that are not overly specific, they're not ideologically 297 00:16:40,990 --> 00:16:42,930 driven have broader appeal. 298 00:16:43,335 --> 00:16:44,175 Case in point. 299 00:16:44,675 --> 00:16:48,285 Ben Crosby's, I'm dreaming of a white Christmas is more 300 00:16:48,285 --> 00:16:50,235 popular than Buddy Greens. 301 00:16:50,325 --> 00:16:51,345 Mary Did, You Know. 302 00:16:51,645 --> 00:16:54,585 You know, Mary, Did You Know where he sings about her, 303 00:16:55,245 --> 00:16:58,965 you know, Mary, did you know that your baby would save the world? 304 00:16:58,995 --> 00:16:59,295 Right? 305 00:16:59,535 --> 00:17:01,995 So everybody knows White Christmas. 306 00:17:02,205 --> 00:17:06,375 Jewish people and secularists and atheist will sing White Christmas. 307 00:17:06,945 --> 00:17:09,465 And so on the surface, you look at that, right? 308 00:17:09,495 --> 00:17:11,205 And you think to yourself, wow. 309 00:17:12,135 --> 00:17:15,494 That brought EV, it brings people from different ideologies 310 00:17:15,494 --> 00:17:16,545 and religions together. 311 00:17:16,545 --> 00:17:17,895 They have something in common. 312 00:17:18,375 --> 00:17:21,795 Well, that is true at taht level. 313 00:17:22,035 --> 00:17:25,965 But that's also like saying, well, we all eat food, right? 314 00:17:26,085 --> 00:17:28,785 So that's just have food that brings us. 315 00:17:28,875 --> 00:17:30,255 Let's just all have together. 316 00:17:30,315 --> 00:17:30,885 Yeah. 317 00:17:31,185 --> 00:17:36,735 So the Grinch who stole Christmas, Rudolph the Red-Nosed reindeer are more popular 318 00:17:36,735 --> 00:17:39,945 movies than the movie, the Nativity Story. 319 00:17:40,095 --> 00:17:41,835 Which is a story of Joseph, 320 00:17:42,360 --> 00:17:47,100 taking Mary as his wife and then mo, taking her to Bethlehem to give birth. 321 00:17:47,399 --> 00:17:52,290 And how difficult, even though the gospels just basically kind of skim over that real 322 00:17:52,290 --> 00:17:58,470 quick, how difficult that was going to be for a young pregnant woman and a guy. 323 00:17:59,235 --> 00:18:02,475 Who had no means in how far they had to travel on foot. 324 00:18:02,534 --> 00:18:04,215 It's a long way. 325 00:18:04,304 --> 00:18:04,605 Right? 326 00:18:04,845 --> 00:18:08,445 And so the movie is about that, but very few people have seen that movie. 327 00:18:08,445 --> 00:18:09,585 It's an excellent movie. 328 00:18:09,585 --> 00:18:10,575 It's well done. 329 00:18:10,575 --> 00:18:14,804 It's well produced, but p, more people know about Rudolph the Red-Nosed reindeer. 330 00:18:15,675 --> 00:18:18,255 Then they know that Jesus was born in Bethlehem. 331 00:18:18,255 --> 00:18:19,095 It seems like. 332 00:18:19,155 --> 00:18:19,485 Right. 333 00:18:19,515 --> 00:18:25,815 So secularism kind of has that as a, is in a kind of an ideological framework. 334 00:18:25,815 --> 00:18:27,195 And so they make assumption. 335 00:18:27,465 --> 00:18:30,045 And this assumption is very dangerous, but it happens. 336 00:18:30,225 --> 00:18:37,169 And that is well, if a nondescript non-ideological, non-truth claiming, 337 00:18:37,169 --> 00:18:40,200 you know, nothing specific song like White Christmas is more popular 338 00:18:40,200 --> 00:18:43,470 than Mary, Did You Know, or the Grinch Who Stole Christmas is more 339 00:18:43,470 --> 00:18:45,510 popular than focusing on Jesus. 340 00:18:45,780 --> 00:18:49,860 Then let's get rid of all the absolutes let's get rid of all objective truth 341 00:18:49,889 --> 00:18:54,090 claims we'll have, it'll give us a broader appeal and this will create 342 00:18:54,090 --> 00:18:56,800 peace and unity, but it is a lie. 343 00:18:57,180 --> 00:18:59,520 It is a lie because it doesn't take into account. 344 00:18:59,550 --> 00:19:03,360 Number one is all these different people who like Bing Crosby's dreaming 345 00:19:03,360 --> 00:19:06,120 of white Christmas already have truth claims that they've adopted. 346 00:19:06,570 --> 00:19:10,530 And the reason why they adopt that one is because, because it's nondescript, 347 00:19:10,530 --> 00:19:12,870 it doesn't violate their truth claim. 348 00:19:13,469 --> 00:19:15,430 But they're never going to let go of their truth claim. 349 00:19:15,430 --> 00:19:18,939 This is why I'm a big critic of the coexist bumper sticker. 350 00:19:19,079 --> 00:19:21,064 You know, people like that, they go, oh, it's so nice. 351 00:19:21,064 --> 00:19:22,264 It's such a great thing. 352 00:19:22,264 --> 00:19:25,445 And you should really, why, why would you want to criticize that? 353 00:19:25,745 --> 00:19:30,365 And I said, because at its core, you don't understand the arrogance of your position. 354 00:19:30,814 --> 00:19:31,145 Okay. 355 00:19:31,235 --> 00:19:33,725 What you're doing is you are demanding. 356 00:19:33,905 --> 00:19:35,885 You're making an absolute truth claim. 357 00:19:36,095 --> 00:19:39,395 That in order for us to get along, all of these people have 358 00:19:39,395 --> 00:19:40,675 to drop their truth claims. 359 00:19:41,824 --> 00:19:45,810 So you don't understand when you put that bumper sticker on your car, what 360 00:19:45,810 --> 00:19:47,560 you're demanding of everybody else. 361 00:19:47,710 --> 00:19:50,790 Jesse: Well, and on the other side, you're also saying it doesn't 362 00:19:50,790 --> 00:19:52,140 matter if they're all the same. 363 00:19:52,530 --> 00:19:52,890 Right. 364 00:19:52,980 --> 00:19:56,580 It's like, that's, you're, you're either saying you got to fall in 365 00:19:56,580 --> 00:20:00,915 line or you're saying none of it matters anyways, so yeah, get over it. 366 00:20:01,065 --> 00:20:04,185 Doug: Which is a massive truth claim and it's offensive. 367 00:20:04,425 --> 00:20:04,605 Right? 368 00:20:04,605 --> 00:20:05,475 You see it's offensive. 369 00:20:05,475 --> 00:20:08,085 It's offensive to me, it's offensive to Muslims. 370 00:20:08,085 --> 00:20:10,425 It's offensive to Jewish people. 371 00:20:10,635 --> 00:20:13,995 And so you think that you're all high and mighty that you love peace. 372 00:20:14,240 --> 00:20:17,090 But I would say to you, if you put that bumper sticker on your car, there's 373 00:20:17,090 --> 00:20:18,410 three things that you don't understand. 374 00:20:18,410 --> 00:20:20,640 Number one, you don't understand history, you never, never remember 375 00:20:20,640 --> 00:20:23,570 reading the history book because you have no idea where peace comes from. 376 00:20:23,720 --> 00:20:27,380 Number two is I'd say that you're making assumptions, that you've never 377 00:20:27,380 --> 00:20:30,560 even thought through in your own life, and you can't even live your own life 378 00:20:30,590 --> 00:20:31,940 according to your own assumptions. 379 00:20:32,120 --> 00:20:33,350 You can't even do that. 380 00:20:33,560 --> 00:20:37,340 And number three is that you're probably one of the most self-centered 381 00:20:37,340 --> 00:20:40,910 narcissistic arrogant people that, that anybody else could meet. 382 00:20:40,910 --> 00:20:42,050 Because you believe 383 00:20:42,544 --> 00:20:47,405 that you're right above every body else, without ever even investigating 384 00:20:47,705 --> 00:20:50,705 the veracity of the claims of these different belief systems. 385 00:20:50,945 --> 00:20:55,354 So be careful about slapping something on your car. 386 00:20:55,564 --> 00:20:58,084 So you can't get rid of absolutes. 387 00:20:58,385 --> 00:21:02,824 You, you can't get rid of objective truth claims for a broader appeal, 388 00:21:02,975 --> 00:21:09,754 because this will never create peace and unity, because secularists and people 389 00:21:09,754 --> 00:21:12,304 who do this, they don't want freedom, 390 00:21:12,465 --> 00:21:13,995 of the individual, right? 391 00:21:14,325 --> 00:21:17,325 They want control of the individual. 392 00:21:17,565 --> 00:21:19,245 Why do you think they got rid? 393 00:21:19,455 --> 00:21:23,085 Or why do you think up until the constitution of the United States 394 00:21:23,115 --> 00:21:24,495 put it in a political document. 395 00:21:24,765 --> 00:21:28,504 The individual sovereignty was never acknowledged by the government. 396 00:21:28,975 --> 00:21:30,975 Why do you think governments in all history? 397 00:21:30,975 --> 00:21:31,455 Why is that? 398 00:21:31,455 --> 00:21:35,025 Why did the Romans enslave, you know, half of their population? 399 00:21:35,265 --> 00:21:38,475 Why, why is it that, uh, king Henry the eighth instituted 400 00:21:38,475 --> 00:21:39,705 the divine right of Kings? 401 00:21:39,945 --> 00:21:43,335 What is it that, you know, a certain person, you know, their 402 00:21:43,335 --> 00:21:46,545 bloodline made them rulership quality and somebody else not. 403 00:21:46,875 --> 00:21:49,845 This isn't biblical, this isn't gospel oriented at all. 404 00:21:50,085 --> 00:21:50,505 What happened? 405 00:21:51,705 --> 00:21:58,034 Has that by regressing back to this, by getting rid of the individual sovereignty, 406 00:21:58,034 --> 00:22:03,825 it allows you in the name of whatever you want to get rid of true justice. 407 00:22:04,395 --> 00:22:11,115 It allows you to do whatever you want in order to create unjust systems, just like 408 00:22:11,115 --> 00:22:16,680 this article or this commissioned report from the European union, you can dictate 409 00:22:16,680 --> 00:22:18,840 what people can say and cannot say. 410 00:22:19,290 --> 00:22:24,480 Now this ideology that they're propagating is a denigration of the individual. 411 00:22:24,630 --> 00:22:26,460 It's dehumanizing of the individual. 412 00:22:26,670 --> 00:22:28,530 This is where socialism comes from. 413 00:22:28,530 --> 00:22:32,730 Communism comes from, this is where critical race theory comes from. 414 00:22:32,970 --> 00:22:35,100 This is where cancel culture comes from. 415 00:22:35,310 --> 00:22:40,585 This is where all of the divisive, violent problems that we have in our own society 416 00:22:40,585 --> 00:22:45,205 and across the world today come from is when people are denigrating the value 417 00:22:45,205 --> 00:22:47,125 of human beings instead of enhancing it. 418 00:22:47,785 --> 00:22:51,565 Jesse: So with this thought process of, uh, wanting to 419 00:22:51,565 --> 00:22:53,725 secularize and take control. 420 00:22:54,540 --> 00:22:59,970 A vibrant Bible believing Jesus center church would probably be, be a thorn 421 00:22:59,970 --> 00:23:01,560 in their side to this plan, right? 422 00:23:01,920 --> 00:23:02,970 Doug: Oh, absolutely. 423 00:23:02,970 --> 00:23:04,590 I mean, you always got to do is read history. 424 00:23:04,590 --> 00:23:07,500 You Lennon had to deemphasize the church and sideline. 425 00:23:07,500 --> 00:23:10,410 It what's interesting at the time the Russian Orthodox church, which 426 00:23:10,410 --> 00:23:13,740 is a subset of Eastern orthodoxy, made it really, really easy, 427 00:23:14,200 --> 00:23:14,770 for them. 428 00:23:15,010 --> 00:23:18,730 You know, how they made it easy for Lennon to deemphasize the church is 429 00:23:18,730 --> 00:23:22,030 because they became very politically, political in their orientation. 430 00:23:22,030 --> 00:23:24,340 They align themselves with the ruling power at the time. 431 00:23:24,700 --> 00:23:27,580 So they, so they lost their credibility. 432 00:23:27,880 --> 00:23:32,770 Uh, this is why Adolf Hitler basically took over the Lutheran church. 433 00:23:33,340 --> 00:23:36,460 You know, um, there's early on these, a lot of these have 434 00:23:36,460 --> 00:23:37,420 been scrubbed through history. 435 00:23:37,420 --> 00:23:40,360 They're very difficult to find, but there was a thing where they took 436 00:23:40,360 --> 00:23:45,820 the Naxzi Swastika, and they super imposed over the Lutheran cross. 437 00:23:46,120 --> 00:23:49,210 Now, if you've ever seen a Lutheran cross, uh, the Lutheran church has 438 00:23:49,210 --> 00:23:52,710 crossed is basically it has a cross with a wreath in the center of it. 439 00:23:52,710 --> 00:23:53,470 Like a circle. 440 00:23:53,754 --> 00:23:57,385 And then if you look at that, you can super impose the swastika right over 441 00:23:57,385 --> 00:23:59,004 the center of it without any problem. 442 00:23:59,155 --> 00:24:00,264 And that's what Adolf Hitler did. 443 00:24:00,264 --> 00:24:03,145 And they hate out Hitler met with the church and he's basically 444 00:24:03,145 --> 00:24:04,764 said, I'll let you exist. 445 00:24:04,764 --> 00:24:08,095 As long as you don't oppose us kind of in a nutshell. 446 00:24:08,335 --> 00:24:09,534 And they all agreed. 447 00:24:09,534 --> 00:24:13,075 There was only one famous guy that was a Lutheran pastor. 448 00:24:13,075 --> 00:24:15,475 Who's opposed nazi-ism right and left. 449 00:24:15,475 --> 00:24:16,675 And his name is Dietrich Bonhoeffer. 450 00:24:17,510 --> 00:24:18,800 And he was executed. 451 00:24:19,220 --> 00:24:23,090 Uh, in some of his literature that he wrote while he was in prison before he was 452 00:24:23,090 --> 00:24:28,130 executed, he was hung two weeks before his camp was set free by the allied forces. 453 00:24:28,490 --> 00:24:31,120 By the way, this is why Mao outlawed the church. 454 00:24:31,590 --> 00:24:35,120 Mao Mao outlawed the church in the first thing that a Mao Zedong did in the 455 00:24:35,120 --> 00:24:38,500 cultural revolution is he basically went and got rid of all the educated people. 456 00:24:38,820 --> 00:24:40,905 You know, you don't want people who have truth claims. 457 00:24:40,905 --> 00:24:42,375 You don't want people who have intelligence. 458 00:24:42,375 --> 00:24:44,504 You don't want people thinking for yourself. 459 00:24:44,504 --> 00:24:47,835 As a matter of fact today, there's a massive resurgence 460 00:24:47,835 --> 00:24:50,085 under Xi Jinping in China today. 461 00:24:50,235 --> 00:24:55,185 It's a massive crackdown on Christianity in China right now. 462 00:24:56,340 --> 00:24:59,879 Uh, just recently I was over at my brother-in-law's house and he's adopted, 463 00:24:59,879 --> 00:25:04,860 he and his wife had adopted two boys from China who are deaf because they, they were 464 00:25:04,860 --> 00:25:06,389 going to be in orphanages the whole life. 465 00:25:06,419 --> 00:25:07,770 Nobody would really want them. 466 00:25:07,770 --> 00:25:12,479 And so, uh, there was a gal who went over there and she 467 00:25:12,479 --> 00:25:13,530 kind of started an orphanage. 468 00:25:13,530 --> 00:25:15,840 She would take these kids that nobody would want. 469 00:25:15,840 --> 00:25:18,460 Because they were deaf or they're handicapped in some way. 470 00:25:18,909 --> 00:25:23,860 And so what happened is just recently, she had to flee because they arrested her. 471 00:25:23,860 --> 00:25:30,159 They interrogated her over and over again for 18 hours, 20 hours over 472 00:25:30,159 --> 00:25:34,810 and over and over again and saying that, uh, she's not an American 473 00:25:34,810 --> 00:25:36,250 citizen, she's a German citizen. 474 00:25:36,250 --> 00:25:38,800 And they said to her over and over, if you were an American citizen, we 475 00:25:38,810 --> 00:25:41,830 throw you in prison because you're talking about Jesus in our country. 476 00:25:41,830 --> 00:25:42,580 And that's illegal. 477 00:25:43,155 --> 00:25:43,335 Hmm. 478 00:25:43,365 --> 00:25:46,485 You know, it didn't matter that she saving all these kids. 479 00:25:46,485 --> 00:25:47,895 It doesn't matter all, all of the things. 480 00:25:47,895 --> 00:25:49,695 And so she fled, and this is what she said. 481 00:25:49,695 --> 00:25:53,775 I have lived in China for, you know, 20 years, 25 years. 482 00:25:54,075 --> 00:25:59,865 And I never realized how evil the CCP was until this happened to me. 483 00:26:00,255 --> 00:26:04,514 And there's a massive crackdown right now because Xi Jinping cannot 484 00:26:04,824 --> 00:26:08,115 bring about his communist utopia unless he gets rid of the church. 485 00:26:08,265 --> 00:26:09,105 He has to destroy it. 486 00:26:09,435 --> 00:26:15,375 But as the Russians found out, The communist found out one communist 487 00:26:15,375 --> 00:26:17,834 leader once said, they said, well, we found out about the churches. 488 00:26:17,834 --> 00:26:22,965 It's like a nail, the harder you hit it, the deeper it goes, you know? 489 00:26:23,115 --> 00:26:26,804 So the number one people group persecuted in the world today as 490 00:26:26,804 --> 00:26:29,564 Christians, no one else comes even close. 491 00:26:29,715 --> 00:26:33,135 The murder, the imprisonment, all of these things, no money, no other 492 00:26:33,135 --> 00:26:36,254 people grew up in the world comes close to the persecution that the 493 00:26:36,254 --> 00:26:37,935 world propagates on Christianity. 494 00:26:38,415 --> 00:26:39,044 Why is that? 495 00:26:39,044 --> 00:26:39,735 Is that a coincidence? 496 00:26:40,470 --> 00:26:45,810 Or is it because there is an evil in this world, propagated by Satan that 497 00:26:45,810 --> 00:26:48,030 seeks to de-humanize and destroy people. 498 00:26:48,360 --> 00:26:52,920 And the thing that stands in the way of his agenda and modifying the hearts 499 00:26:52,920 --> 00:26:57,360 and minds of governments and social movements across the globe is Jesus. 500 00:26:57,840 --> 00:26:59,730 Get rid of Jesus and we can win. 501 00:27:00,330 --> 00:27:00,920 Jesse: So we all have 502 00:27:01,050 --> 00:27:01,800 two minutes left. 503 00:27:01,860 --> 00:27:06,060 Um, what, I mean, we are blessed in America to have protection. 504 00:27:06,840 --> 00:27:10,020 As a church, um, under the constitution, what does the 505 00:27:10,020 --> 00:27:11,250 church need to be aware of though? 506 00:27:11,790 --> 00:27:16,440 Doug: Well, I think, you know, I, I want to make this point over and over 507 00:27:16,440 --> 00:27:19,980 again, and it's really important to understand, but it's a nuanced point, 508 00:27:19,980 --> 00:27:21,900 but it's critical and it's like math. 509 00:27:22,110 --> 00:27:25,680 If you don't do the first step properly, then the next step won't make any sense. 510 00:27:25,950 --> 00:27:29,150 And that is, this Christianity is not a political system. 511 00:27:29,500 --> 00:27:31,185 Christianity is not democracy. 512 00:27:31,215 --> 00:27:33,465 Christianity is not monarchy. 513 00:27:33,495 --> 00:27:35,774 It's not a parliamentary. 514 00:27:35,774 --> 00:27:37,095 It's not totalitarian. 515 00:27:37,095 --> 00:27:39,315 It's not a governmental political system. 516 00:27:39,315 --> 00:27:41,655 Number one, it's not an economics system. 517 00:27:41,655 --> 00:27:42,685 All right. 518 00:27:42,885 --> 00:27:45,585 It's not a free market system. 519 00:27:45,615 --> 00:27:49,695 It's not a command and control system. 520 00:27:49,915 --> 00:27:51,555 It's not a feudal system. 521 00:27:51,555 --> 00:27:52,395 It's none of those things. 522 00:27:52,755 --> 00:27:57,645 Christianity is not a social system or a hierarchy set up. 523 00:27:57,855 --> 00:28:02,175 What it is at its core is a truth claim about Jesus and human being. 524 00:28:03,105 --> 00:28:07,995 Christianity at its core is this is what it means to be a human being. 525 00:28:08,265 --> 00:28:11,325 I want to describe who you are to yourself, so that you will, 526 00:28:11,325 --> 00:28:14,985 can understand why you do what you do and where you're at. 527 00:28:15,375 --> 00:28:17,775 And then I'm going to tell you about who I am. 528 00:28:17,985 --> 00:28:23,685 Jesus says, this is who I am, and this is why I came in order to fix that, 529 00:28:24,105 --> 00:28:28,265 that causes all of your individual problems, and taints your soul. 530 00:28:28,645 --> 00:28:31,185 That's the gospel message at its core. 531 00:28:31,185 --> 00:28:33,015 That is the objective truth. 532 00:28:33,255 --> 00:28:38,285 Jesus Christ came to save sinners of whom I am the foremost. 533 00:28:38,685 --> 00:28:44,775 The apostle Paul wrote, the reality is this objective truth then leads 534 00:28:44,775 --> 00:28:46,875 to all sorts of political theory. 535 00:28:47,205 --> 00:28:52,365 It leads to all sorts of social theory, at least all sorts of economic theory. 536 00:28:52,545 --> 00:28:56,355 In other words, this basic truth that you, as an individual matter 537 00:28:56,355 --> 00:29:00,855 to God, it blows the whole notion that you can enslave another person 538 00:29:00,855 --> 00:29:02,415 against their will out of the water. 539 00:29:02,535 --> 00:29:05,395 You have an objective truth that says, yeah, you can't do that okay. 540 00:29:05,425 --> 00:29:06,330 We're going to fight against that. 541 00:29:06,450 --> 00:29:07,710 Well, human beings trying to do it. 542 00:29:07,710 --> 00:29:08,070 Yep. 543 00:29:08,250 --> 00:29:08,910 They always try. 544 00:29:08,910 --> 00:29:09,390 They always try. 545 00:29:09,390 --> 00:29:11,700 They always try the fact that slavery exists. 546 00:29:11,700 --> 00:29:12,390 Isn't the issue. 547 00:29:12,690 --> 00:29:16,440 The issue is who stopped it and why, you know, who stopped it? 548 00:29:17,715 --> 00:29:21,255 Number two, it has political theory in that is, well, where did the 549 00:29:21,255 --> 00:29:23,145 notion of democracy come from? 550 00:29:23,445 --> 00:29:26,985 That people should have, because up until 250 years ago, the whole 551 00:29:26,985 --> 00:29:29,775 notion that people should be able to govern themselves was a joke. 552 00:29:30,445 --> 00:29:36,045 The people who ruled, believed well, they are genetically inferior. 553 00:29:36,045 --> 00:29:37,395 They don't have the intelligence. 554 00:29:38,280 --> 00:29:43,290 To be able to govern themselves well, where did all those ideas come from? 555 00:29:43,530 --> 00:29:45,120 A lot of people are not worried about this. 556 00:29:45,120 --> 00:29:47,520 Here's a little brief history lesson, but. 557 00:29:48,840 --> 00:29:52,409 When we went back to Boston, I toured a replica of the Mayflower. 558 00:29:52,560 --> 00:29:56,490 So I was kind of digging into the derivation or where did the pilgrims, 559 00:29:56,490 --> 00:29:59,250 you know, I knew there were Puritans and I know what Puritans believe, but really 560 00:29:59,250 --> 00:30:01,200 they were kind of a subset appeared tense. 561 00:30:01,620 --> 00:30:04,230 And this is what I found out is that what people were not aware of is that 562 00:30:04,230 --> 00:30:09,090 king Henry the or eight who right after the Protestant reformation started in 563 00:30:09,090 --> 00:30:12,020 Germany, he wanted to divorce his wife. 564 00:30:12,409 --> 00:30:15,110 But he was in a political fight with the Pope and the Pope 565 00:30:15,110 --> 00:30:16,939 said, no, so he broke off. 566 00:30:17,090 --> 00:30:20,090 So he used the reformation as an opportunity to break off. 567 00:30:20,389 --> 00:30:24,169 And he created the Anglican church or the church of England where he was the 568 00:30:24,169 --> 00:30:25,460 head and he could do whatever he wanted. 569 00:30:25,520 --> 00:30:25,970 Right, right. 570 00:30:26,419 --> 00:30:31,669 And so what happened is then he died and his daughter, Mary took over and Mary was 571 00:30:31,669 --> 00:30:35,510 a committed Catholic and she became known as bloody Mary because what she did is she 572 00:30:35,510 --> 00:30:36,889 went through and she started executing. 573 00:30:37,355 --> 00:30:42,845 All of the church of England leadership and people, she cause she wanted England 574 00:30:42,845 --> 00:30:44,315 to go back to being Roman Catholic. 575 00:30:44,465 --> 00:30:44,795 Okay. 576 00:30:44,975 --> 00:30:47,285 Well then she died, heard it rain wasn't very long. 577 00:30:47,285 --> 00:30:51,215 And then her sister took over, uh, her, her half sister international 578 00:30:51,215 --> 00:30:56,825 says, sister said, I'm going to take king Henry's, um, position and keep 579 00:30:57,065 --> 00:31:01,625 the Anglican church as the church of England is where England should go. 580 00:31:01,775 --> 00:31:02,555 Well, during bloody. 581 00:31:03,495 --> 00:31:04,905 The church went underground. 582 00:31:05,205 --> 00:31:05,535 Right. 583 00:31:05,925 --> 00:31:09,255 And because the leadership was being killed, they started a 584 00:31:09,285 --> 00:31:11,355 congregational form of leadership. 585 00:31:11,355 --> 00:31:14,145 And that is that they would get in these little groups and then they would vote 586 00:31:14,415 --> 00:31:17,895 on whether or not a person could become a part of the church because you don't want 587 00:31:17,895 --> 00:31:21,195 to bring a treasonous person or someone's going to betray you right into the group. 588 00:31:21,495 --> 00:31:23,535 And so they started, they would vote on everything. 589 00:31:23,535 --> 00:31:27,735 So they had this congregational kind of modality. 590 00:31:27,945 --> 00:31:29,985 And what happened is then when. 591 00:31:30,705 --> 00:31:31,545 Mary died. 592 00:31:31,545 --> 00:31:33,225 And her sister took over and went back. 593 00:31:33,405 --> 00:31:35,415 She wanted to bring the church of England back. 594 00:31:35,465 --> 00:31:38,445 So a lot of these underground churches came out, but she wanted 595 00:31:38,445 --> 00:31:39,764 to control them politically. 596 00:31:39,885 --> 00:31:41,445 She wanted to use them to political ends. 597 00:31:41,655 --> 00:31:44,565 And so some of those peak groups said, yeah, we don't want to do that. 598 00:31:44,565 --> 00:31:46,785 And there was a guy by the name of brown and they were called brown 599 00:31:46,785 --> 00:31:50,145 separatists and they said, yeah, we're not going to be a part of the king. 600 00:31:50,565 --> 00:31:52,815 Uh, the church of England, we're going to continue to be 601 00:31:52,815 --> 00:31:54,225 congregationally led churches. 602 00:31:54,225 --> 00:31:54,555 Right. 603 00:31:55,770 --> 00:31:56,940 They were persecuted for that. 604 00:31:57,360 --> 00:32:01,860 So they fled to the Netherlands and then that's, those were, 605 00:32:01,920 --> 00:32:05,670 the pilgrims were Puritans, but they were brown, separate tests. 606 00:32:06,000 --> 00:32:06,510 You see? 607 00:32:06,810 --> 00:32:10,680 And so then they came over and now when you go back to, to new England 608 00:32:10,680 --> 00:32:13,950 and you go back up there to where the Mayflower is a Massachusetts 609 00:32:13,950 --> 00:32:16,980 Cape Cod and you drive through New Hampshire and Vermont, every corner, 610 00:32:16,980 --> 00:32:18,540 there's a congregationalist church. 611 00:32:19,665 --> 00:32:24,315 And what's really interesting though, is that it started out as a congregational 612 00:32:24,315 --> 00:32:25,965 church is basically a pure democracy. 613 00:32:25,965 --> 00:32:31,365 We vote on everything, you know, and what ended up happening is is that. 614 00:32:32,430 --> 00:32:34,080 Because it was driven that way. 615 00:32:34,080 --> 00:32:36,480 It lost its focus. 616 00:32:36,690 --> 00:32:40,139 So it just became whatever the wind of the age is. 617 00:32:40,139 --> 00:32:42,750 And so that's why so many of those congregational churches are dying because 618 00:32:43,169 --> 00:32:46,800 they, whatever the wind of the ages, that's what they want to propagate. 619 00:32:47,010 --> 00:32:51,030 They removed the objective truth of the gospel. 620 00:32:51,750 --> 00:32:55,500 So, so in essence, what this teaches us is if you remove Christianity, 621 00:32:56,370 --> 00:32:59,160 The that Jesus is what Christmas is. 622 00:32:59,190 --> 00:33:04,020 You remove the basis or the foundation on which all of these other things are built. 623 00:33:04,230 --> 00:33:07,650 Political theory, economic theory, social theory, and it makes it 624 00:33:07,650 --> 00:33:09,120 possible to do anything you want. 625 00:33:09,690 --> 00:33:12,840 And so that's why the church has such a threat, but not. 626 00:33:14,310 --> 00:33:17,160 You see, not a congregational church, that's not a threat. 627 00:33:17,700 --> 00:33:24,480 What is a threat is a Bible believing Jesus centered, vibrant faith community. 628 00:33:24,810 --> 00:33:28,890 Those are the most dangerous in the direction of where progressivism 629 00:33:28,890 --> 00:33:30,120 wants to take our society. 630 00:33:30,300 --> 00:33:31,860 Those are the ones that are most at threat. 631 00:33:31,860 --> 00:33:34,260 Those are the ones that are being, I think, attack the most. 632 00:33:34,650 --> 00:33:40,950 And so what we need to do as a church is we need to always avoid the temptation. 633 00:33:42,480 --> 00:33:46,800 To reflect all the values of the culture, where you must always be 634 00:33:46,800 --> 00:33:48,840 committed to the values of the gospel. 635 00:33:49,020 --> 00:33:50,010 And we should never change that. 636 00:33:50,010 --> 00:33:52,860 And that's why this series is called Jesus Christmas, because 637 00:33:52,860 --> 00:33:56,680 if you get rid of Jesus, you ain't gonna have no Christmas. 638 00:33:57,465 --> 00:33:59,625 Jesse: Well, thank you so much for sharing that with us, Pastor. 639 00:33:59,865 --> 00:34:02,715 Um, I know you're gonna be talking a little bit more about it on Sunday, uh, 640 00:34:02,745 --> 00:34:06,915 during your sermon, but we just appreciate you guys joining us, learning more about 641 00:34:06,915 --> 00:34:10,095 who you are and why you believe what you do, and getting a little bit of a history 642 00:34:10,095 --> 00:34:12,345 lesson, how it's affecting us today. 643 00:34:12,645 --> 00:34:14,565 I'm all here on the Salty Pastor Podcast. 644 00:34:14,565 --> 00:34:15,455 Thank you so much for joining us. 645 00:34:15,485 --> 00:34:16,485 We'll see you on Sunday here at 646 00:34:16,485 --> 00:34:16,815 Foothills 647 00:34:16,815 --> 00:34:18,195 Christian Church. 648 00:34:19,845 --> 00:34:25,165 Doug: Merry Christmas.