Speaker 1: so welcome back to the life in the iep tribe podcast.
Speaker 1: My name is jared curtis and I'm here with my fantastically awesome full wife, laura curtis, and we are going to discuss some things in this episode that um could possibly be somewhat overbearing.
Speaker 1: However, I think through the course of our conversation, we're going to be able to unpack some things that might help us to have a better grasp on what's out there for our students, what's out there for our students with disabilities, and how we can best support them.
Speaker 1: How are you doing, laura?
Speaker 2: I'm doing all right.
Speaker 1: I'm glad to hear that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I think it's kind of weird.
Speaker 1: So we decided to record this after a day of work, and I don't know about anybody else in the special education field, but when we get home and we walk through that door, I feel like everything in me soul and everything just kind of drops to my feet and it's like I'm done, I'm tapping out.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I get that.
Speaker 2: Sometimes I feel that way If I don't sit down, I'm okay.
Speaker 1: Right.
Speaker 2: Like if I start okay, I got to start this, or I got to do this, and if I do all that, then I can stay pretty good.
Speaker 2: But then as soon as I sit down, if I sit too long, I fall asleep.
Speaker 1: To quote the great philosopher Dory just keep on swimming.
Speaker 1: There you go.
Speaker 1: Isn't that Dory?
Speaker 1: Yes, you know, I've seen that movie enough that I should remember.
Speaker 1: So one of the things that we often talk about when it comes to special education or raising a child with special needs is that, while there are a lot of really great experiences and a lot of milestones that you get super excited about when you reach them and and to see the kids progress, sometimes it's hard like life is difficult when working with special needs children, raising special needs children, and there's nothing wrong with saying that.
Speaker 1: I think that's one of those things that we have to make as a society.
Speaker 1: Okay To say, hey, it's hard.
Speaker 2: Right.
Speaker 1: And just because something's harder, you say something is hard, Doesn't mean you don't like it.
Speaker 1: Doesn't mean you hate it, Doesn't mean you you, you know are furious at the thought of somebody who's special needs.
Speaker 1: It's okay to say things are hard.
Speaker 2: It's okay to yeah.
Speaker 2: It doesn't mean that it's a burden, it just means it's difficult.
Speaker 1: And, with that in mind, not only is the relational side of it difficult, but really the legal side and the rights and what people can do and can't do.
Speaker 1: And, like I mentioned before, you know, when Xander came into this world, nobody gave me a manual telling me how to raise a child with autism.
Speaker 1: And then, when you start talking about autism too, that spectrum is so huge I mean there's no telling where the kids land on it, and that's why they call it a spectrum now.
Speaker 1: And so I think being able to talk about some of these things and sort of chewing on them bite size, I think, can help all of us in moving forward as teachers, as parents, as maybe an aunt or an uncle or a brother or sister, someone who has some sort of special need, grandparents, grandparents that's right.
Speaker 1: See, I'm going to miss people, that's right.
Speaker 1: And see, I'm going to miss people all over the place.
Speaker 1: Uh, and real quick, before you jump in, thank you so much for, uh, the ones that have been interacting with us and asking questions and bringing things um to us into conversation that we can talk about, and there's a lot of stuff out there.
Speaker 1: I mean, one of the great things about social media is it gives us this kind of instant.
Speaker 1: That's what I'm looking for.
Speaker 1: We can have a conversation with somebody and they don't have to be anywhere near us and we don't even have to be on the phone, and that's good.
Speaker 1: Because I can't stand talking on the telephone.
Speaker 1: I much would rather sit and punch myself in the face six times over than have a conversation on a telephone.
Speaker 1: Can't stand it.
Speaker 1: I don't know why that is.
Speaker 1: I don't know if something tragic happened to me when I was younger that now I have this ridiculous fear of telephones.
Speaker 1: See, I think it bothers me that I can't see people when I talk to them.
Speaker 1: So you don't know what they're receiving, or no, it feels like I'm talking to a ghost, yeah, and so that kind of weirds me out a little bit.
Speaker 1: But back to what I was talking about.
Speaker 1: What's really cool, though, is that people can give advice and information and direction, and we've had some great conversations.
Speaker 1: We have people from all different walks of life listening, so, please, if you have something that you want to throw into the pot, do it.
Speaker 1: Let's talk about these different, because we're going to see things from different perspectives and different angles.
Speaker 1: Like you and I, we teach in an elementary school setting.
Speaker 1: A friend of ours that we used to work with at another elementary school, brenda, she, I believe, is at the high school now.
Speaker 1: I think that sounds right, and so that's a whole nother perspective, and with our walk with Xander, we're learning more and more every year as the time goes on.
Speaker 1: So enough of my rambling, laura.
Speaker 1: Where do we want to kick off this evening?
Speaker 2: uh, we touched a little bit on the different um, you know, we started talking about idea last week and what that meant, and um, we touched a little bit on fate, the free and appropriate education, or free and appropriate public education.
Speaker 2: Um, I think that we should revisit that and talk a little bit more about I think we quickly went over what that means.
Speaker 2: I'm not sure if we went over what it doesn't mean, just so we have some clarity there and then be able to have parents or teachers know, give them a little bit of some steps that they can take, or just some ideas to think about as how to make sure that their child slash student students are getting everything that they're supposed to get under FAPE, are getting everything that they're supposed to get under under FAPE, and and that's it's really important to discuss because I know that we have found just in our time as educators that with every child there's different needs.
Speaker 1: Not every kid needs the same supports.
Speaker 2: Right.
Speaker 1: We may have a child that needs maybe I don't know help with speech or occupational therapy, and then you may, you may just have someone that you have, a student that just needs a little bit extra help in math or English, or you know, whatever the case may be.
Speaker 1: And so to talk about the possibilities or the options that are out there and then also to be able to focus it through a lens of I'm going to use the word reality because I don't know how else to put it, but let me, let me let me qualify that and you're going to touch on this in a minute is that not every student is eligible for every service, and it's hard sometimes to find out what the best ones are, and that's why it is so important early on to start digging, start asking questions and start pushing to find out what is available.
Speaker 2: Right Definitely.
Speaker 1: So what do you got?
Speaker 1: Go ahead, let's talk about it.
Speaker 2: Okay, To recap the free and appropriate public education.
Speaker 2: The very first part of it is free, so these services and different aspects of your child's education should not cost a thing.
Speaker 2: It should be free and it's basically specifically designed instruction for your child and they can.
Speaker 2: So they can go ahead and they can get their the services they need, the education, they need the accommodations, modifications and I know we'll go into these a little more on another day evening well, can we?
Speaker 1: can we just do kind of a quick vocabulary lesson on when we hear modifications and accommodations?
Speaker 1: What are modifications and accommodations?
Speaker 2: Modification is you take that key word modifying you change the way either the education or the materials being presented or you change the requirements that the student has doing 20 math problems and you know that.
Speaker 2: Okay, so they can.
Speaker 2: If they look at these 20 math problems, they're going to freeze.
Speaker 2: But if we can offer them five math problems or 10 math problems, then they're going to be fine and you can typically find out if they understand what's going on after those couple of handfuls.
Speaker 2: You don't have to overwhelm them if it's going to be a problem.
Speaker 1: Right.
Speaker 1: If a student understands how to multiply 2 times 5, 3 times 4, 6 times 2, or understands what it means and how to do it, and can do it properly in five questions, they probably know well enough to do 20.
Speaker 2: Right.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so I agree.
Speaker 1: So that would be a modification, like you said, right, modify the presentation of the materials, right.
Speaker 1: And as far as the word we use, there is chunking, like saying okay, instead of making them do 20, let's do five and see where we go there.
Speaker 1: Now accommodation, what is that and how is it different?
Speaker 2: Accommodations.
Speaker 2: These are kind of the root word.
Speaker 2: You're doing things to accommodate these students in the classroom, and so what you're going to provide is you're going to provide, excuse me, like rephrasing of directions, repeating of directions.
Speaker 2: We find a lot of times that our children slash.
Speaker 2: Students with disabilities have that receptive language delay where it takes them a little bit longer to process what people are asking them to do.
Speaker 2: And so if you give them you know wait time, or you repeat it or rephrase it, if I want to say, okay, johnny, I need you to walk to the front of the classroom and put this on the board, and if he doesn't quite understand what I'm saying, then I might slow that down and say, okay, I need you to stand up Now, walk over to the front of the classroom and put this on the board.
Speaker 2: So that's like rephrasing, repeating as necessary.
Speaker 2: We like to have wait time, give them that time to process that.
Speaker 2: Some children with disabilities really thrive on praise.
Speaker 2: That could be an accommodation.
Speaker 2: That, hey, when little Jimmy gets it right, you're going to throw a party for him.
Speaker 2: Or some of them like stickers, some of them like gummy bears, and we try not to do a whole lot of food-related, however.
Speaker 2: So those are some of the accommodations that you can use, and then they also have testing accommodations, different ways that they have take their standardized testing.
Speaker 2: If they take standardized testing or if they take alternate testing, you have extended time, they can have read aloud, they can have frequent breaks, and so it really is almost endless the ways that students can be accommodated in their settings, ways that students can be accommodated in their settings.
Speaker 1: So now, these accommodations and these modifications, we find these in the IEP that is a product of FAPE Right All, right, now, did I totally throw you off course.
Speaker 2: I don't think so.
Speaker 1: Outstanding because I threw me off course, so I'm going to hand it back to you again.
Speaker 1: So where are we at?
Speaker 2: Well mentioning the IEP right.
Speaker 1: I know, that's what I meant.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, right.
Speaker 2: Part of that, that FAPE, is that an IEP is going to be created and, as we've mentioned before, individualized.
Speaker 2: So that's going to make you don't want to just lump everything Okay, these five kids are going to get this, this and this and they're going to work on this, this and this.
Speaker 2: Now, do they typically have similar accommodations and modifications?
Speaker 2: Yeah, because although there's a vast array of disabilities, there are also a lot of tools that are similar that will help our, our students.
Speaker 2: And then, after a part of that IEP is LRE, which we've touched on a little bit also, I believe, least restrictive environment.
Speaker 2: So that's going to say where they get their services, whether it be in the gen ed classroom with a co-teacher, a collaborative teacher in there to help them, whether you get a paraprofessional in with them, or if they're in a small group, and so that's where their education happens.
Speaker 2: And least restrictive means that you start by assuming that these children are going to be in the general education classroom and work back from there, and typically the best way to try to do that is that the only time they get a separate class is when it's really necessary to meet some of these unique needs that can't be met in the general education classroom, whether that be for medical reasons or for intellectual reasons, or there's all kinds of different reasons.
Speaker 1: So if a child is placed, let's say, in more like what we do with the adaptive, self-contained setting, if a student starts their educational journey there, does that mean that's just where they stay?
Speaker 2: Absolutely not.
Speaker 1: It's like okay, well, this is where you started, this is where you belonged in pre-K or kindergarten, is it?
Speaker 1: You just stay there until they're done with school?
Speaker 2: No, no, pre-k or kindergarten, is it?
Speaker 2: You just stay there until they're done with school?
Speaker 2: No, no, we, we constantly monitor and assess and try to um, you know, we, we joke around and say our, our plan and our hope and our goal is to is to get rid of kids, and that means being able to put them in in the general education classroom more and a lot of times.
Speaker 2: Some of these kiddos just need some maturing and some, you know, some extra supports or learn some techniques, and so just because they start out in this, that environment, doesn't mean that they'll.
Speaker 2: That's where they're going to be forever.
Speaker 2: And that, I think, is one of the hardest part of of our job at that elementary level is because it you know where they, where they can go, is is, there's, there's I can't think of the word.
Speaker 2: I'm trying to say yeah, but it, but it's not endless possibilities.
Speaker 2: However, they're not pigeonholed right there, and so trying to figure out how to best serve the ones that are kind of walk that line is, I think, one of the hardest parts.
Speaker 1: Well, there's a lot of learning at that stage, right at that stage, I mean just your typical development learning to talk and learning to toilet and all of these things that everybody's kids face early on, and whether or not they master those skills or not.
Speaker 1: That, of course, is kind of the topic of our conversation.
Speaker 1: Topic of our conversation.
Speaker 1: But, um, there is a lot going on early on in that, in that they you can't, like you said, you can't know right away where they're at, and so it's important to continually try and continually um what's the word I'm looking for?
Speaker 1: Kind of investigate the possibilities.
Speaker 1: If it doesn't work this semester, let's try it again next semester.
Speaker 1: If it doesn't work this semester, let's try it again next year.
Speaker 1: But continually look to see what is it that the child or that the student needs so that they can operate at their optimum level, whatever that level is.
Speaker 1: You know, people hear special education and their minds tend to go one way or the other and typically it's extremes.
Speaker 1: But if we did, if we look at the research to see, if I can remember it, 22-23 school year, 15.2% of all students in public schools were receiving services under IDEA.
Speaker 1: 15.2%, that's somewhere in the area of like 7.4 million give or take students that are receiving some sort of support.
Speaker 1: Maybe it's in the self-contained classroom and there's some more severe hangups, that or some severe barriers that teachers and students and families are trying to work through and students and families are trying to work through.
Speaker 1: Or the student is just getting, say, speech services or just getting ELA support or whatever, like you were talking about earlier when you talked about the different settings.
Speaker 1: And so, with that being said, just because your student starts, your child starts in one particular setting, doesn't mean they have to stay there, doesn't mean that they have to move, but it is a continuum.
Speaker 1: Special education services are a continuum that they will continue.
Speaker 1: You will use them as needed, as long as needed, and so that's one of the reasons why we talk about parents really checking out what's going on and what kind of services are out there.
Speaker 1: Now, what I'm really excited about is that we've been able to reach out to some friends I think I said this before from all across, like teachers, parents all kinds of different providers, yeah, of different service providers.
Speaker 1: It's going to be a lot of fun when we can start having them on and having these conversations, because, you know, I didn't even realize until I got into the education system just how much is there.
Speaker 2: Right.
Speaker 1: And the things that we can ask for and the questions that we should ask, because it's one of those you know what you know and you don't know what you don't know.
Speaker 2: Right.
Speaker 1: And so what the hope is in this little bit of conversation about FAPE and IEPs?
Speaker 1: Let me just kind of jump back.
Speaker 1: So IDEA is the big.
Speaker 1: That's the law that says this is what every person deserves.
Speaker 2: Right.
Speaker 1: Out of that came FAPE, which is the Free and Appropriate Public Education.
Speaker 1: Part of that free and appropriate public education comes the IEP, the Individualized Education Program.
Speaker 1: That program is the plan, the guide.
Speaker 1: It is what you tether to as far as your students' progress through school right and the different services that they'll get in school.
Speaker 1: And inside that IEP we have accommodations, modifications, and there's there's a lot more that we can talk about there.
Speaker 1: But what is that?
Speaker 1: With all that being said, what is the one, what is the one takeaway that anybody listening to this can take with them?
Speaker 1: What, would you say, is the first step in?
Speaker 1: Here's all of this stuff.
Speaker 1: Now, what, like?
Speaker 1: What do I do with that?
Speaker 2: I would.
Speaker 2: Are we assuming that these and that the student's last child has already been?
Speaker 2: it's been identified right there has Identified has an IEP, educating yourself, whether you're a teacher or a parent, what services are provided in the school that your child is attending, I think would be the first.
Speaker 2: Then you will know what they do and what they're for.
Speaker 2: Again, there's OTPT.
Speaker 2: You use those abbreviations a lot and you might say, oh, occupational therapy, my kid doesn't have a job, and that's not necessarily what it's about.
Speaker 2: It's not because they do have a job.
Speaker 2: Their job is to go to school and so when they're in school, and occupational therapy is to help them do their jobs at school.
Speaker 2: And some schools have different services and different arrangements, and so I would start by saying finding out what your child's school offers as far as services.
Speaker 1: And understand that if your child has an IEP, then you are part of an IEP team, and that team is made up of everybody that is serving your child at the school, right?
Speaker 1: What that doesn't mean is you can't ask questions, though.
Speaker 1: If you have questions, ask your team.
Speaker 1: Hey, listen, I see this going on.
Speaker 1: Is it a good idea to pursue speech outside of school?
Speaker 1: Is it a good idea to pursue occupational therapy outside of what they're getting at school?
Speaker 1: Ask all these questions because, especially early on, because the more you can get for them early on, the better, the better you're going to position them moving into the future.
Speaker 1: So ask questions.
Speaker 2: Definitely.
Speaker 1: Ask questions.
Speaker 1: And if you ask a question and they say I don't know, ask somebody else.
Speaker 2: Find out who can.
Speaker 1: If you got questions, shoot them to us.
Speaker 1: Doesn't mean that we'll have the right answer, but we can find find somebody that does, or we'll just make something up.
Speaker 2: That sounds really good no, we won't do that or not that.
Speaker 1: We won't do that no, all right, so I think.
Speaker 1: Did you have anything else that you wanted to add?
Speaker 2: I want to cover a little bit, as we're talking about the fate, but what it doesn't mean oh yeah, that's a good idea.
Speaker 1: What it?
Speaker 2: does mean, and so we don't want there to be some assumptions and when we talk about services and programs and whatnot, a school does not have to have a specific or provide a specific class or a program if they don't already have it at at the school.
Speaker 2: If you, you know, say that, you know, I want my child to have this type of classroom and and it's not offered at that school, they don't.
Speaker 2: That school does not have to make that now.
Speaker 2: They will have to find a place that has that, if they qualify for it, that has that program, if your child qualifies for it.
Speaker 2: But they don't have to make a program at the school that you want them to attend.
Speaker 2: It doesn't mean that they're going to get.
Speaker 2: You know they're.
Speaker 2: This is going to sound bad, just hang with me.
Speaker 2: They're not going to get the best services to maximize their potential.
Speaker 2: I know that sounds bad.
Speaker 2: However, they're going to receive services that are going to help them progress and services that are going to be reasonably calculated.
Speaker 2: You know services that are going to be reasonably calculated Because if they did the maximum potential, then we'd have to provide that to every student.
Speaker 1: I mean they try.
Speaker 2: I know that's.
Speaker 1: Well meaning, not every student's going to have a one like one to one teacher in a classroom, right, like it's just me and little Johnny and we're working through everything together, step by step, and so that that's not going to happen is what you're saying, but there are certainly things in place that will help.
Speaker 1: Like you said, position the child for progress, progress, right.
Speaker 2: And it also doesn't mean that for extracurricular activities or sports, that a child with a disability is not guaranteed a spot on on these activities or in these activities.
Speaker 2: Now, they have an equal opportunity to participate, but they're not guaranteed a spot if that makes sense, right.
Speaker 1: So, like you know, just because, again, little Johnny likes football, doesn't mean he's going to be a starter on the team, doesn't mean, you know, if they have tryouts.
Speaker 1: If he can't do that, then he can't do that.
Speaker 1: And I get that, and as parents, you kind of you don't like that, right, but it makes sense and I get that and, as, as you know, as parents you kind of you don't like that but but it makes sense and that I think that's about it.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: I think so.
Speaker 1: I D E A I E PE.
Speaker 2: I E, I O.
Speaker 1: D U N N DUNE.
Speaker 1: No, yeah, all right, so we're going to go ahead and wrap this one up.
Speaker 1: If you have any questions, comments, concerns, please feel free to email us at lifeinthieptribe at gmailcom, or you can check us out on one of the many social media outlets the Facebook, das Twitter oh, it's not called Twitter anymore.
Speaker 1: What is it?
Speaker 1: X, x, x or uh, what else is there?
Speaker 1: Instagram?
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, oh, and YouTube.
Speaker 1: I think we're floating around YouTube somewhere too Cool.
Speaker 1: So, hey, check all that out, Uh, send in any questions, comments, uh or concerns.
Speaker 1: Unless they're mean, then keep them to yourself.
Speaker 1: Again, I am Jared Curtis with my wife, Laura, and we will see you next time.
Speaker 2: Have a good evening or day, or whatever.
Speaker 2: It is the time you're listening to this, that's right.
Speaker 1: Whatever?
Speaker 2: it is yeah, yeah.