The Modern Hotelier #258: What Creates A Thriving Hospitality Culture | with Kristie Goshow, CCO of Loews Hotels
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David Millili: Welcome to The Modern Hotelier. You're the most engaged podcast in hospitality. Don't forget to like, subscribe, and follow us. Let us know in the comments what you think about today's episode. Steve, who do we have on the program today?
Steve Carran: Yeah, David, today is gonna be a good one. We have Kristie Goshow, the Chief Commercial Officer from Loews Hotels & Co. Thanks for joining us, Kristie how are you doing today?
Kristie Goshow: I'm great. Thank you for having me with you.
David Millili: Okay, so we're gonna kick it off. We're gonna go through a lightning round. We're gonna get to know you better, and then we're gonna dive into some industry thoughts. Sound good?
Kristie Goshow: Let's go for it.
David Millili: Okay. What did you wanna be when you were growing up?
Kristie Goshow: What did I wanted to be everything all at once, so I wanted to be, um, a pilot and then I wanted to be a speech therapist and, and I think I probably wanted to be somebody in some type of sports, but ultimately where I landed was when I got old enough to really know the difference. It was had to be something in the travel industry.
David Millili: Okay, good. What's something that you wish you were better at?
Kristie Goshow: I answer that honestly. I'm off order. I would love to be better at throwing things away.
David Millili: Okay, good. What's a luxury you can't live without?
Kristie Goshow: My passport, it's access to everything, and I think so many people take it for granted, but I consider it the ultimate luxury.
David Millili: Okay, good. So who's a person dead or alive that you would like to take to lunch?
Kristie Goshow: I would love to spend time with the incredible Margaret Thatcher, who was the British Prime Minister from 1979 to I think 1990. She's longest serving British Prime Minister in 20th century. She was the first female. So I think she would teach me some pretty important lessons. She was formidable. I would love to have some achievements equal to hers.
David Millili: If you could have a superpower, what superpower would you like to have?
Kristie Goshow: I'm gonna say, positive vision, something along those lines. And what I mean by that is the ability to maybe see between 10 and a hundred different outcomes to a choice that has to be made, and then also able to see what I call the second, third order, the more complex decisions that pertain to business or technology, because obviously our ability to to see outcomes builds resilience.
David Millili: Oh, I like that answer. What's something that's on your bucket list?
Kristie Goshow: You know what I was thinking about this, I do not have, and this is the honest answer. I don't have an answer to bucket list because the whole world, to me is just interesting and curious, you know, people often say, well, what's on your bucket list? What's one thing you really wanna do? And it's like, I don't know if there's one thing, I think I wanna be able to do good. And if, if somebody gave me unlimited budget and said of skills go have at it. I think I'd probably wanna cure cancer, if I'm honest with you.
David Millili: Right. Got it. No, that's good.
Steve Carran: Well that was great. Now we're gonna move on to your personal background, a little bit about where you come from and what makes you tick. So you were born in Holland, is that correct?
Kristie Goshow: I was in a place called Hilm, which is just outside of Amsterdam.
Steve Carran: Awesome. So how did growing up in Holland really shape you into who you are today?
Kristie Goshow: Well, technically I didn't grow up there because I was born there, so a tiny, tiny little baby, but very much influenced by it as a place because my father did live there for many years, off and on, over the course of his life. And I would say that. What I gained from his experience and my connection through birth was this idea that small countries can do very big things. And I think the same is also true of the uk where I spent most of my, my professional years, if you can punch above your weight, I think that carried very well into business.
David Millili: So you went to London Metropolitan University. You got your degree in travel tourism and transport management. What made you go to London and choose to major in those?
Kristie Goshow: Wow, you've done your research. I came back from traveling. I spent about six months in Singapore teaching at Foundation English and Math to a Singaporean family. And when I came back to the UK. I did my own research and looked up courses that offered travel tourism related courses, and what I found was there's probably only a couple that stood out and it was because of the professors that this particular university had. So a phone call in back in those days, we didn't really rely on email, so I put a phone call in, had an hour long conversation with a professor about two weeks before the course was about to start, and at the end of that he said, well, we are oversubscribed as a course, but I think I'd like to have you on it because you're gonna bring some real life experience to this, this particular group of individuals that you'll be working with. And, and that was what took me to, now, back then it was University of North London actually Metropolitan. 
Steve Carran: Awesome. Awesome. So it seems like travel has always been a part of your life. When you were younger, you collected bottles on Zor Beach, if I pronounce that correctly. And you met lifelong friends there. And then you have things like your ax, your red Mini Cooper, and you also have a piece of the Berlin Wall seemed to be all kind of staples in your life. What really drew you in to travel and how did you become so passionate about it?
Kristie Goshow: It was actually started with my father because he worked in the petrochemical industry and that would take him to new locations. So I grew up knowing. A father who would be home for the weekends and every week he would be going somewhere really fantastic, it might be the Caribbean. He spent a lot of time in Europe, and he would bring back some fun stuff.
So I would get the little business class immunity kits. Now, as a kid, that's just like, wow,  and then I think for a few years when he was traveling to Holland, he would bring me back the little Delft Houses that KLM offered to their travelers that had bowls inside. So I started to collect those and he would share little stories about who we met when he was away. And over time I watched him learn languages and he would pick up the local language very, very quickly and he would ingratiate himself into local communities very quickly. And over time we got to meet some of the people that he spent time with in these different locations. I think what it signaled to me was it was okay to leave home, go and discover new places, meet incredible new people home would always be there somewhere for me to come back to. So it was safe and it was okay to go on adventures, and those two things I think just spurred me on and gave me the inspiration. 
Steve Carran: That is awesome. So now we're gonna dive into your career a little bit, how you got to be the CCO of Loew's. You actually started your career in travel logistics before moving to the aviation side of things with Scandinavian Airlines, then Virgin Atlantic as a sales Manager. What were some of those lessons that you learned from the airline side in those earlier days that still stick with you today?
Kristie Goshow: I think it starts with relationships a big part of what we were doing was building relationships with key travel buyers and I think secondly, I'm gonna go back to sort of punching above. One's weight. I happened to be working at that time for Virgin Atlantic who were really the David going up against the Goliath, which in those days was British Airways. And as a team we had to be very, very creative to outmaneuver British Airways. Whether it was trying to grow our market share in the first class cabin or come up with ways to win any type of share from an agency partner. And of course we were up against an entity that had very big budgets, enjoyed very longstanding relationships, and that forced all of us to come to the table and say, okay. If we are, if we are the David up against Goliath, what's it gonna take? Like, what are we gonna do? That's been an important lesson because I think many of the businesses that I've worked in have always needed to understand how they can compete against a larger entity or more successful entity. the other takeaway is probably that it's absolutely okay to have fun at work, and you do not have to be serious to be taken seriously. We would suddenly just break down in the office and have full on snowball fights using sort of these little soft snowballs at a moment's notice, and everybody would dive to the floor, and then we'd have this, this sort of mini adventure in the office. It would last about three minutes, and then we'd all go back to work again. I loved that it really spoke volumes about who the brand was how the brand wanted us to seize every opportunity to live their values.
Steve Carran: Both of those things are very Richard Branson, I'd say.
Kristie Goshow: Yeah.
David Millili: So after that, you're at the Jamir group. Then you held leadership roles with companies like Sabre, Viceroy Hotel Group. You got exposure to both technology and the luxury side of the industry. How did those experiences shape you and have you think about distribution, marketing, and evolving travel ecosystems?
Kristie Goshow: Well, there's a lot that happened at all of those companies. If I had to sort of boil it down to maybe one or two key themes, it's really, really important to always think outside in. And see everything through the lens of the buyer. And I think as an industry, sometimes we get very caught up on the pomp and ceremony and or the technical aspects of how we want things to happen as a brand versus, um, what the, the problem to be solved is that's one of the big takeaways for me working in travel tech is you always stay focused, laser focused on the problems to be solved.
And then you build your solutions around that, the other would probably be that, hospitality is a pretty complicated business when you look behind the scenes. And so anything that we can do to take that complex tier away and simplify it is time well spent. So, you know, a large part of what I learned was how do you make sure you don't make your problems? Guest problems or your team's problems in terms of executing on the guest experience? And then with regards to jamira with luxury, it was really about innovation. The focus there was co-creating with our guests to create the future of hospitality. Because I think when you work in the luxury segment. It's the cost of entry is providing a great room, great F&B, outstanding service, that's just cost of entry. So what more can you do? And the best way to understand where those moments are is to watch guests. That's something we did a lot of there and I've also carried that through into a couple of other businesses that I've worked in. I think ethnographic study and anthropology, those two things are not well covered in hospitality today, and we've got a really, really big opportunity ahead of us there if we truly believe that the future's about galvanizing experiences. And we did a lot of that at Humira, and that led to a number of different breakthroughs that I believe has secured their position as, as a leader in the region. 
Steve Carran: So from there, you became the chief marketing officer at For Beyond Green and Preferred Hotels, then the Chief Commercial Officer for Para Green Hospitality. You know, what were some of those insights that you gained about the independent market and how they compete on more of a global.
Kristie Goshow: Yeah, and it's fascinating question because we all understand the challenges that independent property has when it's trying to compete against very, very large prolific brands that enjoy very deep relationships with bio communities and very large loyalty programs that that drive that demand. And what I discovered was that as an independent property, you have an incredible agility because the decisions start and stop with the general manager or the owner of that particular asset. And I think that is a competitive advantage that perhaps many of the independent community have overlooked for many, many years, and worried more about how do they compete with the larger brands versus saying What do we have that gives us a unique position and that USP, and how do we really take advantage of that?
So I mean, for number one was agility, and then related to that is the ability to augment the product, obviously to be innovative. And when you are driving your own future and you are not beholden to brand standards, you can flex and really amplify the personalization that you deliver to your audiences. Again, in a very, very unique way. So I love that aspect of unique properties. I've also had the opportunity through my time with Peregrine, two different categories side by side because we also had a select service portfolio, working with a number of the larger brands. and I have huge respect for everything that they've created. I was able to take learnings from one side of my business, the best practices, and I was able to apply those to my independent portfolio and vice versa and commercially, that creates a pretty rich playbook.
Steve Carran: Absolutely best to both work.
David Millili: Okay, so you're now the Chief Commercial Officer at Loew's. Congratulations. And for those who might not be familiar, can you tell everyone a little bit more about Loew's and the properties?
Kristie Goshow: Yes, absolutely. Well, Loew's Hotels and Co was established in 1960, by the Tisch Family still led by the Tisch family today, and I would say that our sweet spot is operating incredible hotels, usually larger properties with a bias towards group business in very interesting, sometimes more challenging locations. Probably a fair statement that's actually something that drew me to the company 'cause I think that takes a degree of bold belief that you can go into a more challenged location and create success. And that success isn't just for the hotel organization, that's for the local community and for all of the individuals who are in our care, working as associates and colleagues, because at the end of day want everybody to have great futures too. That aligned very well with me, actually, David, so that that tells you a little bit about who they're and why they do what they do. But they've been delivering hospitality a purpose statement, which I share with you, which is actually one of the reasons why I joined is to basically enrich lives through, very special experiences and. I've always believed that I work in hospitality 'cause I wanna make lives better. It's the easiest thing to say to somebody when they say, what do you do? And I don't wanna give them a title and I don't wanna have to explain the hotel industries. I'm like, I make lives better. And they're like, what do you mean by that? I'm like, okay, well, you know, I great careers for people that work in hotels and happy guests and communities that, that have assets that, that help them rise economically and sort the list goes on. It's very easy to speak to. I felt that Loews has always been focused on that, and I think most of, most of the team would attest to that because the tenure inside the company is unlike anything.
Steve Carran: So I kind of wanted to ask about that. That's one thing I've noticed and I've heard just from talking to people there, that the culture is absolutely incredible. Is there a secret sauce to creating a culture like that for an organization?
Kristie Goshow: I think authentic leadership starts there, right? I've got the little credo card in front of me here, and I would say book has given to me on day one and I always look down pillars, credo cards, whatever we might call it, and say, okay, do I believe this? Do I see this? Do I feel this? Or is it just words on a piece of paper? And they start with, we are family. And that carries through. And then sort of obviously lead with integrity, keep our promises. I think just being honest, candid it all come, it all culminates in the type of culture that you see. And hear and feel today. So we have incredible talent that all love what they do every day. And it's funny, isn't it? So people often get caught up on the what we do, not why we do what we do in our industry. And I would say that the why is coming through, and personified more than the what we do. The what is the technical piece. 
Steve Carran: Now we're gonna dive into industry thoughts, some best practices in the industry. We gotta kick it off with the AI question. How do you see AI, I guess, being a value for hospitality and, you know, how do you kind of balance that AI and human connection?
Kristie Goshow: Brilliant, brilliant question. And we've sort of noodled on that a lot. Very recently, even this week we've had a live conversation on the, on the topic as every company probably is. now I think if you think about the value of AI. It can help our teams do more, do it faster, to do it better. So I think we start from there. And what that really means to us is that it's gonna help us bring a lot more of the human connection back into the business because we can leverage the capability of agent solutions to take away some of the work that slows the team down administrative burdens, that we really don't want them spending time on today. And I think about this whole check-in experience, and I'm gonna use, no, most people check in and they sort of see this part of  the top of the head syndrome front desk head.
So I'm like, it's the top of the head thing. That's what we're gonna do. And if I can take away the need for that, automate that and allow Christie to welcome Steve with genuine connection, eye contact, and leverage that solution on. It's already done a lot of the heavy lifting for me. So what I really want you to be able to feel is you matter. We're thrilled that you're with us here today. And we're genuinely here to, to serve and you're now we're in our care. I don't think that's easy to convey when you are trying to follow a script run through all the different steps that are in front of you on the PMS to make sure that you've ticked every single box to meet your standards. So if we can, that's one example, that's just one use case. And there are multiple, and I think lay on top of that, the fact that our industry has spiraling labor costs that we've been trying to get our hands around. In some cases, we had labor shortages in a few areas that we've struggled to find suitable talent for. So if anything, AI could just be the best thing that ever happened to us of allowing us to really drive humanity back into the business. I'm excited. I also think that we've already got a lot of AI available to us in existing applications and platforms that we use today. And that's where we are focusing our efforts. We're going to really explore what we already have access to with our partners in the industry, uh, and then we'll learn and grow from there.
Steve Carran: I love that.
David Millili: That's great. I'm always wondering what are they looking at when they're not checking somebody in? What is the front desk looking at on the screen? It drives me crazy 'cause I work the front desk. But anyway. So in an ever changing hotel landscape, what does it take to maintain success the way that Loew's is maintaining success.
Kristie Goshow: First and foremost, retain curiosity, always be asking why. Not just what, I mean, we have a lot of data, every business does. But I think you've got to kind of peel that back and understand the why. What's driving the business alignment across teams really very, very important, and that alignment comes from partly culture that we've already touched upon and making sure that everybody understands what success looks like. It's really easy to say, but it's quite surprising how hard it is to do, right? Because you've got different teams in the business that will argue that they have different goals, and so it's important to make sure that they have shared, shared measurement, shared goals, as well as their individual, um, objectives that they have to achieve. But I think aligning around the cultural goal is job number one as a secret source. And then thirdly, believing you have to want to be there. I use a term which is we invite people to work for us, and I choose to go to work every day. And the reason why we have to use the word invite is because people have choices. When somebody's making a career decision when they leave university, there's probably 30 or 40 different routes that they could pursue. Why would the hospitality industry be one of those? and then obviously I choose to go to work every day like men, like you two, nobody kicks you out of bed in the morning and says, you better go and do your podcast. Right? it's not happening. You have to be self-motivated. You have to want to do that. And therefore you have to believe all of your heart, why you do what you do.
Steve Carran: I love that. Well said, well said. So we recently celebrated International Women's Day. I'd curious of your perspective on this as a C-level executive in the hospitality industry where, how do you see where we are with women in our industry and think there's room for improvement?
Kristie Goshow: I probably have a more contrarian view than most on this particular topic, so I may not win some fans with my answer here, but you know, I am who I am and I'm gonna be very, very, very honest. I think the industry has come a long way. And I've seen many, many more women make it into C-suite roles outside of HR.
David Millili: Right. 
Kristie Goshow: So if we look across many of the major brands, I think you'll start to see that the CFO role is becoming a more popular landing spot for female leaders even in business development. I see more and more women coming into that space, which I think has typically been dominated by male population. the reality is that women have certain things that they can do and have to do in life that are different to men, and it's okay. That's perfectly okay, and I think we've gotta stop trying to be like one another. I think we need to really celebrate what makes us unique and those gifts that we have.
And I did actually write a piece on this where I had supported this commentary with some data points, but I think, you know, I'll kind of give you a high level summary of what came outta that. And it was that, look, there's two things that, that happen to women that do not happen to men. One is we're the only half of the population today that can procreate, meaning can have babies, the other is that when we get to a certain point in our life and our body says, right, baby shop's closing down now, and we enter into this period of menopause, many, many women struggle with that phase for all manner of reasons and opt to take themselves outta the workforce. And the same happens with at the front end when they're having families, and in some cases that's not a choice. And in other cases it is a choice. And so my point is that the pool of available candidates, female candidates, can never be the same size as the pool of male candidates. I just struggle with the idea that it can be, so when you then run the math. You say, okay, based on these things and the fact that one in four women will pull themselves out of the workforce when they're going through menopause, that's usually the age that you would be in the C-suite potentially trying to aspire to one of those key senior roles we're already, we're already working at 75% of the pool, right? So why would we expect it to be equal? I just don't know how the numbers can lead us there. And there's certainly things that we can do better without a doubt, um, on both sides. But that's the current reality of life. And at the end of the day, if I am recruiting, I will always pick the best candidate for the role. Gender is irrelevant to me best candidate for the role because the organization deserves that my team deserves that. I think that's relatively simple. 
Steve Carran: Perfect.
David Millili: It's good. Powerful stuff. I like it. So with that, so for men or women who are looking to move their way up and get to that C-level in hotels or hospitality, what advice do you have for them?
Kristie Goshow: Try to expand your horizons. There's obviously a growth mindset is number one. You've got to be always looking at what you do, how you do that, how you can do things better. I think when opportunities present themselves, if you can seize the moment and take advantage of that and on occasions that might mean you have to move, you have to pack up your family and go somewhere, which can be a little uncomfortable for everybody. and those are difficult decisions, but if you can try to take advantage of that often use the chess analogy, because I think when people have a goal in mind of where they wanna be, like a game of chess, you've got to, if that's three moves from now, the move you make today has to be setting you up for the second move and the third move, knowing that you. You know, what the fourth move looks like. So it's about taking advantage of opportunities. I think also being therefore very deliberate about the experience and the exposure that you wanna take, get to receive from your organization. So when you sit down with your line manager and you talk about your personal development plan, identify the roles that you want to learn. And if there isn't an open role, ask if you can shadow somebody spend time just understanding the world through their lens. and these can all be things that you do over and above your role. So there's going to be a requirement to put extra effort in, make sure that you get involved with industry associations such as HSMAI or HEDNA, et cetera, and the AHLA they're all great places to learn to network. And actually through network you'll probably find some of your best opportunities.
David Millili: Well said. Yeah, it was. 
Steve Carran: Very well said. Very well said. Well, we've been asking you questions this whole time, Kristie, so this is where we're gonna turn the tables and let you ask David and I a question.
Kristie Goshow: So what's been the most rewarding part of building and developing Modern Hotelier for the two of you?
Steve Carran: I mean, I think it's learning from people like you who are leaders in the industry and you know, who really are just not only incredible people, but have really kind of set the precedence of what this industry is and what we're doing the one thing you've said multiple times here, it's about the why and it's, that is such a key thing that, you know, we not everybody talks about all the time, but. We're lucky enough to have these conversations with you and other leaders in the industry. So, I mean, I always say I have the coolest job. I literally get to talk to the best people in the industry at what they do. So, that's my favorite thing, is just kind of learning and kind of soaking it all in from our guests.
David Millili: And I think for me, I've always just been curious. Like you know, I grew up in a small town outside of Philadelphia. I was the only one of four brothers that left and so for me it's almost like we're getting to have dinner together without having dinner together with these people where we're getting to ask questions and learn about them and find out things that you would never find out. When we created the, kind of, the format for this, it was to like, we really wanted people to learn who people were versus just people giving their opinion 'cause we felt like LinkedIn was just like, this is what I think, this is what you should do, this is what I did today. We were like, yeah, but you don't know that person's background, they don't know where they grew up. They don't know what jobs they had, what university they went to. So for me, I think the curiosity in me is what makes it so great doing this. 'cause we get to learn, and I've learned a lot about you today, which is great which I would've never known certain things and Steve does most of the research, all the research, so, so kudos to him. But yeah, that it's a really fun, fun gig.
Kristie Goshow: Oh, it's fascinating. So if you had to, well, maybe this is a measurement question, but not in the traditional sense. Obviously you can see and measure engagement and in terms of each the episodes. But how do you measure whether somebody listening has been able to take away a gem from these conversations? Materially impact their business in a positive as a consequence.
David Millili: No, I was just gonna say, I mean, that's what we pride ourselves on and that's why we say we're the most engaged podcast 'cause obviously we can get analytics and we can see in hospitality, we get more interaction, and I think it's just been those side conversations, maybe at a high tech or something where somebody was like, oh yeah, I love your podcast.
I listened to it. I learned it. We've had people tell us that they listen to it when they're driving or when they're jogging or things of that nature. So I don't necessarily have a specific specific, but we had a very, very funny moment where somebody said to Steve, oh, I don't know, I never heard of your podcast. And then, three of his employees came up and he asked each employee if they knew it, and they all said, oh yeah, I love it. I listened to it. It's great. And so Steve kind of awkward. 
David Millili: Yes. It was awkward for him, not for Steve. Steve was like, yes. 
Steve Carran: Like it looks like you're the only one that doesn't know us here, but that's a story for another time. But I agree with David. I think when I hear it, it's like people that I respect in the industry and maybe I've known for a long time, and they'll shoot me a message or something and be like, Hey, I just heard this on your podcast. This is awesome and I haven't thought about this, but I'm gonna go try it right now. And, you know, coming from David and I come from, well, he has a hotel background. I have more of the technology background and, you know, so does he. So like kind of incorporating those technology and hotel conversations, where it's kind of, we get the best of both worlds of, you know, who we're talking to. So, I agree with David. It's those kind of those messages. I receive people in person and it's like, I had this idea after I listened to your podcast and I'm running with it. Those are like my favorite, favorite moments.
Kristie Goshow: I love that. Excellent. So,  I've got another question for you. I told you I'm quite curious. So when you think about where you're at today. And how podcasts are evolving. Do you ever see a point in time where you may be using agent solutions to be a component within the podcast? Maybe the two of you plus an agent who's also asking questions because the agent might read my face, might read my behaviors in very fast form. How'd you think about that?
Steve Carran: I think that would be awesome. I love AI. I'm like, I'm one of those people. I love forward thinking technology. It's just kind of what I've always been passionate about. It's why I got into this industry on the technology side, because I like forward thinking technology. one day could AI replace David and I, and it's just AI, Steve and David maybe, and maybe they'd be better than we are. Who knows? But I think people do enjoy the personalities of David and I think that's some, that's one thing I think in hospitality that I don't think we'll ever see go away is the personalization, the the, and I know I utilize chatGPT for my research. but I think that only goes so far the personalities and kind of the human curiosity goes a little bit further than AI, but who knows where AI is gonna be in a year from now? I mean, it's moving so fast. So we'll see. Maybe we'll have AI Jerry over here. He'll be our third host or something like that. 
Kristie Goshow: Well, that could give you an edge. I think the whole personalization piece is probably. The single largest opportunity, isn't it for the industry? Because when you can offer personalization at scale, that takes away the around luxury Now, now you've got selector and the value end of the business can arguably compete in the same way as the luxury category of the business. And I think that very powerful. But anyway, in your case, yes, it's absolutely about the personalization.
David Millili: Yeah, well good news is, good news is after I pass away, Steve can still have the podcast 'cause I'm a lot older than him.
Steve Carran: David, congratulations David. You are gonna live forever 
Kristie Goshow: Yeah.
Steve Carran: Podcast world, too funny, too funny. Well, Kristie, this has been such a fun conversation. We have one more part here where we're gonna kick it over to Jon. He's gonna ask you one more question before we get you outta here.
Kristie Goshow: Okay.
Jon Bumhoffer: You have been around a lot of hotels in your tenure, and I'm curious, what do you think, or what do you see the most successful hoteliers doing? Is there any like common denominators that you can kind of share with us?
Kristie Goshow: Yeah. I mean, there's one answer to that. They build others. They build and support others to be successful in the industry. That's it.
Steve Carran: Easy as that. That's great.
David Millili: Well, that does it for another episode of The Modern Hotelier. This is where you get to let people know how can they get in touch with you? How can they find out more about Loew's? So plug away.
Kristie Goshow: Okay, well, simplest and easiest way to reach me is look me up on LinkedIn. I'm happy to connect. I'll be even happy to have a conversation. I'm pretty open with my personal information. It's out there if somebody wants to get in touch with me stalk, if you wanna get in, touch it. Be my pleasure.
David Millili: Thank you. Well, that does it for another episode of The Modern Hotelier, the Most engaged podcast in hospitality. Whether you're watching or listening, we appreciate you and hope to be with again soon. Thanks. Joining us.
Steve Carran: Thank you.