[00:00:00] Jeff Compton: Welcome back, ladies and gentlemen, to another exciting episode of the Jaded Mechanic Podcast. It's, uh, a long weekend up here in, um, beautiful sunny Ontario, Canada, and it's still frigging cold in May. Um, it's our, I guess you'd call it We used to talk, just call it May two four, but it's our Victoria Day weekend, which is some queen from way back in the monarchy that I don't even know why we still acknowledge it, but it's mostly just a, an excuse to drink some beer and, uh, and have a long weekend.

[00:00:26] Jeff Compton: So but, uh, it gives me some time to, to do some recordings and meet some new friends. So I have a friend that, he's from Kansas today. And Eric Schoenberger, how are you this morning, brother? 

[00:00:38] Eric Schoenberger: Oh, doing all right. 

[00:00:40] Jeff Compton: Yeah. You said it's nice and warm there? 

[00:00:42] Eric Schoenberger: Yep, about 95 degrees. 

[00:00:44] Jeff Compton: Nice. Yeah, so, um, whereabouts in Kansas are you?

[00:00:48] Eric Schoenberger: Oh, central Kansas. 

[00:00:50] Jeff Compton: Central Kansas. 

[00:00:51] Eric Schoenberger: Right in the middle. 

[00:00:52] Jeff Compton: Yeah, I'm not sure, so our, our, our buddy David Roman, he's in Kansas. Um- 

[00:00:57] Eric Schoenberger: Yeah, he's, uh, on the eastern side. 

[00:00:59] Jeff Compton: Yeah. 

[00:01:00] Eric Schoenberger: Near Kansas City. 

[00:01:01] Jeff Compton: Yeah. Yeah. He, um, do you ever go to Vision? 

[00:01:05] Eric Schoenberger: Oh, yes. Yeah. I went this year and last year. 

[00:01:09] Jeff Compton: How is it? 

[00:01:09] Eric Schoenberger: It's very good. 

[00:01:11] Jeff Compton: Yeah. That's what everybody raves about it.

[00:01:12] Jeff Compton: They say it's the, the event, right? It's kinda the groundbreaking one, the, the most established one, the kinda the ones that all the other ones wanna be, so. I've heard that. Never been yet. I'm hoping to go one year. It just, it seems to be a schedule or a budget thing always, so, but, um, yeah. What, uh, kinda give us a little bit of an introduction.

[00:01:33] Jeff Compton: Give us the name of your shop, kinda, you know, let us get to know you. 

[00:01:37] Eric Schoenberger: Well, I work for Holt Motor Company. 

[00:01:40] Jeff Compton: Okay. 

[00:01:40] Eric Schoenberger: Um, we're an independent shop, kinda do a little of everything. Um, I've grown up in a dealer. My dad was a Chrysler tech for 35 years. 

[00:01:50] Jeff Compton: Nice. Good for- 

[00:01:51] Eric Schoenberger: And I worked with him for, beside him for 10, and Chrysler's pretty much all I've known.

[00:01:57] Eric Schoenberger: Yeah. I did work for an independent in high school and part of college before I went into the dealer world, and I just finally got tired of the typical headaches. 

[00:02:11] Jeff Compton: Yeah, it's, it's, yeah, I, and that's the ... Like I, I always, you know, I still think fondly of my, my turn at the dealer because I learned, uh, so much, right?

[00:02:21] Eric Schoenberger: Right. 

[00:02:22] Jeff Compton: You get so, kinda, you get to really polish your craft, right? You know that, you know what it's like. You know what's probably wrong with it when they write the work order and put it in front of you, right? You kinda know what the- Oh, yeah ... and that's always makes you feel good, right? Gives you confidence.

[00:02:33] Jeff Compton: Um- 

[00:02:34] Eric Schoenberger: Yeah. You've mastered the brand, so to speak. 

[00:02:38] Jeff Compton: Yeah. Um, but it's a, it's that political thing. What, what did you really like about the brand? 

[00:02:44] Eric Schoenberger: Uh, I just always been a Chrysler guy, liked what they did. It was always something different. 

[00:02:49] Jeff Compton: Mm-hmm. 

[00:02:50] Eric Schoenberger: Um, I mean, I don't got nothing against Chevy or Ford, but it just Chrysler was always kinda my go-to, and that's the way it was with my dad.

[00:02:59] Jeff Compton: I, I always liked them because they kinda seem to be like, you know, people have heard me say it, on almost unapologetically, like, about the horsepower, right? 

[00:03:08] Eric Schoenberger: Yeah. 

[00:03:08] Jeff Compton: Or performance. Even, like, you know, people would be like- Jeff. And I'm like, "No, but seriously, think about what they did with, like, the PT Cruiser with a turbo or, you know, um, the SRT4 Neon way back in the day, right?

[00:03:22] Jeff Compton: Or even- 

[00:03:22] Eric Schoenberger: Uh-huh ... you know, 

[00:03:23] Jeff Compton: back before that. Think about the, the front-wheel drive cars from the late '80s, early '90s that were turbo, like the LEI Coca days. Like, that was It was something different within the domestic trio, right? Yeah. And I always thought that just, like, people used to say, "Well, they used to build really ugly cars and paint them funny colors," but I mean, you know, uh, when you look at the Challengers and the Chargers and the...

[00:03:47] Jeff Compton: I can still remember the first 300C I drove, the rear-wheel drive, like that LX car when it came out, I was, like, absolutely floored with how cool that was. That was- Oh, 

[00:03:56] Eric Schoenberger: yeah ... 

[00:03:57] Jeff Compton: here they're building a, a V8 Hemi rear-wheel drive, kind of a throwback to what we, some of us in a certain generation had maybe grown up riding around in the back of, right?

[00:04:05] Jeff Compton: And there's this four-door sedan with a V8 that, that has that feel still of, like, you know, a, a rear-wheel drive, you know, kick-the-ass kind of car, and I, I just thought it was really cool. And then the trucks for me, I, I say it all the time, like, you drive, back in the day, especially when the Hemi first hit, you drove a Hemi truck and then you drove anything else and it just didn't feel the same.

[00:04:29] Jeff Compton: Like the- No ... the, the pedal, the throttle response was so much different, better, you know? GM, I, and I grew up in a house of, of Chevrolet. Like, you didn't park anything but that in the driveway. Uh-huh. But, you know, when I went to, when I went to the dealer and started driving those trucks, I was like, "Yeah, okay, I get it now."

[00:04:48] Jeff Compton: 'Cause they had weird, wonky stuff, right? And, and I mean, Caravans were Caravans, you know? Um, but they were a cool little car. Like, I look at a Neon and then I look at a Cavalier, and I'm like, "What's the real... Why does everybody say so, one is so much better than the other?" They both had head gasket problems.

[00:05:08] Jeff Compton: They both, you know, at least the Cavalier for longer if you get a two-door. I always thought that that kinda killed the Neon, was making it only a four-door car. That was, to me was stupid. 

[00:05:18] Eric Schoenberger: Yeah, they originally had the two-door, but it didn't- Yeah ... last. 

[00:05:22] Jeff Compton: Yeah. And em- I remember seeing one, uh, American Club Racer, ACR Neon, the two-door, which was, uh, really cool 'cause that had manual steering and, you know, um, just, you know, twin cam, stick, like, you know, upgraded everything.

[00:05:38] Jeff Compton: It was just a really cool little car, but they were, didn't sell a lot, and I thought, "That's pretty neat," you know, that they were still thinking about that in, you know, early 2000s, whereas everybody was just, like, in a completely different thing. Now, I'm not talking about the Asian market, right? But, you know, Ford didn't really, I didn't feel had anything that compared to, to that.

[00:05:57] Jeff Compton: You know, an Escort in my opinion didn't compare to a Neon. 

[00:06:00] Eric Schoenberger: No. 

[00:06:02] Jeff Compton: So. Um, so what, uh, your dad was a tech? 

[00:06:06] Eric Schoenberger: Yes. 

[00:06:07] Jeff Compton: Yeah. So is that kind of why you picked this or just, it just became natural? 

[00:06:11] Eric Schoenberger: Yeah, I did. Um, like growing up, I'd always pay attention to what he did and, like, he'd go to class, come back, I'd read the books, just- 

[00:06:21] Jeff Compton: Right.

[00:06:22] Eric Schoenberger: Mm-hmm ... you know, I just had that yearning to learn and- Just kind of wanted to do it. 

[00:06:27] Jeff Compton: Yeah. And he was... So was he a dealer tech? You said he worked there? Yes. 

[00:06:30] Eric Schoenberger: Okay. Yeah, he worked at Chrysler store for 35 years. 

[00:06:34] Jeff Compton: Wow. Good for 

[00:06:35] Eric Schoenberger: him. He did, uh, drivability and trans- automatic transmissions. 

[00:06:40] Jeff Compton: Yeah. 

[00:06:40] Eric Schoenberger: Like the 604s he was good at and- Yeah

[00:06:43] Eric Schoenberger: all that. 

[00:06:44] Jeff Compton: So he would've been a pretty important person in the dealership then. He would've been one of their, you know, their kind of- Oh, yeah ... top talent kind of people. Yeah. That's a good, that's a good influence to have on you, right? As a young technician, that's pretty cool. 

[00:06:57] Eric Schoenberger: So- Mm-hmm ... 

[00:06:58] Jeff Compton: you know. Um, he loved the brand too, I'm gonna assume.

[00:07:02] Eric Schoenberger: Oh, yeah. That's all he drove and owned, and then after he got done with it, he started driving other stuff and- 

[00:07:10] Jeff Compton: Mm-hmm ... 

[00:07:10] Eric Schoenberger: I'd have to fix it for him, but yeah. Um- But he's still a Chrysler guy at heart. 

[00:07:17] Jeff Compton: Yeah. Is he still with you? 

[00:07:19] Eric Schoenberger: Uh, no, he's retired. He lives in, uh... He lives about 80 miles from me now. 

[00:07:25] Jeff Compton: Okay. But you still have- I- Yeah.

[00:07:28] Jeff Compton: That's cool. 

[00:07:29] Eric Schoenberger: Well, I worked with him for 10 years, and I enjoyed it, but it was one of them deals, I wanna see what else was out there. 

[00:07:36] Jeff Compton: Mm-hmm. 

[00:07:37] Eric Schoenberger: And so I went to another Chrysler dealer on my own and, um, luckily I had another good tech to work with that I'm still friends with. 

[00:07:48] Jeff Compton: Yeah. 

[00:07:48] Eric Schoenberger: And, uh, yeah, I moved up, you know, moved about 80 miles away and like I said, I worked for another, oh, about three other Chrysler dealers And it just, like I said, this last one, it just kind of got to the point, the typical politics and scraping and clawing for, to make flat rate.

[00:08:12] Jeff Compton: Yeah. 

[00:08:12] Eric Schoenberger: The Pacifica side curtain airbags, what did me in. 

[00:08:16] Jeff Compton: Mm-hmm. 

[00:08:16] Eric Schoenberger: They only paid 1.8 for the recall, but it was four hours under regular warranty pay- 

[00:08:22] Jeff Compton: Yeah ... 

[00:08:22] Eric Schoenberger: and six hours under customer pay. 

[00:08:25] Jeff Compton: Yeah. Which all of a sudden- And- ... there's no more customer pay ones ever. 

[00:08:29] Eric Schoenberger: Yeah. And- Yeah ... you know, you get the young guys that, "Oh, I can make that time."

[00:08:34] Eric Schoenberger: It's like, "Well, go ahead. I'm not gonna work 100 mile an hour and- 

[00:08:38] Jeff Compton: Mm-hmm ... 

[00:08:39] Eric Schoenberger: suffer quality for it." 

[00:08:41] Jeff Compton: Well, and that's it. Think about, you know, and again, so I've never done one, so I don't, I couldn't tell you the, the steps, but I mean, anytime, like from my experience with side curtain, you're, you're up into around the, the, the, you know, headliner type area, right?

[00:08:55] Jeff Compton: And that's something that I always never thought should be rushed because people- Oh, yeah ... when they start, especially when you start talking about a recall, they get like super, super, uh, methodical about how they inspect their headliner, you know? And it could have all the fingerprints and scratches in it before you did the recall, but, uh, you'd be buying, you know, you'd be buying them a, a headliner.

[00:09:17] Jeff Compton: And then like think about how a lot of us, you know, one minute you're doing a waiter oil change, and then you do a recall, and you get a fingerprint on it, right? And then people are- 

[00:09:25] Eric Schoenberger: Oh, yeah ... "

[00:09:26] Jeff Compton: What's that?" Like I just... Yeah. 

[00:09:29] Eric Schoenberger: The o- And those are real, real particular 'cause where the rear AC controls are- Mm-hmm

[00:09:35] Eric Schoenberger: in the headliner, there's some mean metal clips, and it's a two-man job, and, um, just carefully bring it down. Yeah, you don't wanna crease it. 

[00:09:43] Jeff Compton: Yeah. Yeah. 

[00:09:45] Eric Schoenberger: You know? 

[00:09:45] Jeff Compton: For sure. Uh, I, and again, you know, I mean, I can remember way back in the day doing all the clock spring recalls like you probably can, and I can remember- Mm-hmm

[00:09:56] Jeff Compton: you know, the impact sensors on the front bumper on the Caravans, like you probably did a pile of them. Uh-huh. That was in the connector that went with it. And I mean, that was all I can remember doing. I can remember doing seat weight sensors in the LX cars when they first came out. Like- 

[00:10:11] Eric Schoenberger: Yeah ... 

[00:10:12] Jeff Compton: and I touched a lot of it from the airbag side.

[00:10:15] Jeff Compton: Um, you know, OCMs, there were splices on the floor pan I used to fix on the Caravans that would cause the OCM to go offline, like all that kind of stuff because up here we would get so much salt in our harness from, like, water and, um, it would, it would... Those stupid splices that were taped with like tape and not even heat shrink.

[00:10:36] Jeff Compton: Right. Those would do funny things, right? It was just... It was the weirdest thing. But, you know, the, the idea that like the... And I did, again, a ton of Takata airbag recalls for Nissan. 

[00:10:49] Eric Schoenberger: Uh-huh. 

[00:10:49] Jeff Compton: But the idea that, that, that they go from it used to be six hours down to less than one-third To me, it's just, you know, we talk about why technicians or dealer people especially talk about why, you know, what's his name, Farley's famous quote, while they're, you know, I, I got six- Oh, 

[00:11:06] Eric Schoenberger: yeah.

[00:11:07] Jeff Compton: Like, they wonder why, and it's, they, they shouldn't have to wonder. They do it to themselves. You know? It shouldn't be any kind of mystery as to why technicians won't pick the job, you know? And that could be, like, and everybody goes, "Well, it's just one job." Yeah, but when those recalls get released, sometimes you'll get two, three of them in a day.

[00:11:25] Jeff Compton: And what... Then think about that. It used to be you would've made 18 hours, and now you make six. 

[00:11:30] Eric Schoenberger: Right. 

[00:11:32] Jeff Compton: Of course it's gonna kill your morale, you know? Like, it- Yeah ... it's, it's just, it's just a given. All these things, you know, and then everybody's like that legislation. I don't know, do they have it in Kansas, Eric, or- No, 

[00:11:43] Eric Schoenberger: they don't- You know, it's-

[00:11:44] Eric Schoenberger: 'cause we're a free- we're a right to work state, so we- Yeah ... don't have that. 

[00:11:49] Jeff Compton: And I don't think that that's... And people love that idea, so what we're talking about, people, is the idea that, like, in some states, I think it's Detroit, California, whatever it's supposed- 

[00:11:58] Eric Schoenberger: Illinois. Illinois- You know ... is one of them.

[00:12:02] Jeff Compton: Uh, whatever it's supposed to pay retail is what they, they're by law, they're not allowed to change it. There is no warranty time, and everybody goes, "Oh, that's so much better for the, for the technicians." Sure it is. You're right, it is. Um, but here's the here's the reality of it. We're s- we're talking labor op type jobs, right?

[00:12:21] Jeff Compton: If you're still into the problem-solving, you know, um, every car problem is a one-off until you find it, you're still losing your butt. Okay. And it doesn't really matter because warranty's only got, you know, uh, if they say, "Well, there's every wiring problem can be solved in two hours," and that's all they're gonna pay, that legislation doesn't really help you, is my, my argument back to them.

[00:12:43] Jeff Compton: I think it's a step in the right direction, but, you know, there's that holdout of technicians that are like, "I want flat rate no matter what." Well, most of the guys that I talk to that want that, they're not tackling a ton of diag. Now I know I'm gonna get a lot of comments and a lot of hate for that, but it's the very real reality.

[00:13:01] Jeff Compton: I mean- Yeah ... you know. 

[00:13:02] Eric Schoenberger: Well, and also I don't see manufacturers sitting there idly by watching the, you know, having to pay out that stuff- 

[00:13:10] Jeff Compton: Mm-hmm ... 

[00:13:10] Eric Schoenberger: that I look for them to possibly buy into those labor guide count 'cause I've noticed- 

[00:13:15] Jeff Compton: Yes ... 

[00:13:16] Eric Schoenberger: with all data, some of the times are starting to come down a little bit.

[00:13:20] Jeff Compton: Uh, and yeah, that's, we saw that in another pop, that conversation pop up. And again, and everybody I think is, and it- It's a pretty cruel, disgusting thing that they would do then if that's how, you know, how much they'll invest and focus on backroom deals to make that happen instead of just building the frigging stuff properly so that it doesn't have to be recalled.

[00:13:42] Jeff Compton: Yeah. You know what I mean? Like, that would be the way better way to do it. I, and I, again, you know, I, I tell people all the time, I remind them, like, n- the OE doesn't tell the dealer that they have to pay you flat rate. Nowhere does the OE tell them send it down, that that's how they must pay. It's just like a warranty...

[00:13:58] Jeff Compton: It's warranty job. It's just like a, an estimate for a body shop through their insurance. They say, "We're only gonna pay this amount of labor to do the repair on the, on the car." No big deal. Pro- cool. But when you go over, it's not the OE that's not paying you the time, it's your person that you work for, it's your employer that's choosing not to pay you that.

[00:14:19] Jeff Compton: Right. And, and they'll hear the argument, "Well, they can't. The money's not there." Okay. The money is there, people. Um, they're just, they want to buy a second dealer, a third dealer, a fifth dealer, whatever, instead of paying you for it. So you have to draw the line in the sand and decide, what is my limit on what I'm gonna actually believe on that, you know?

[00:14:40] Jeff Compton: And I'm... I mean, if the job should take you 10 and you go 20 repeatedly, it might be a you problem, right? 

[00:14:50] Eric Schoenberger: Yeah. 

[00:14:50] Jeff Compton: But if you can hit that recall time and do it without damaging something or having to come back or really making it look hacky, um, who's to blame? Well, at some point then I blame it back on the people that own the dealer, because they could have a very real conversation with the people and say, "I realize that it's only gonna pay one eight.

[00:15:10] Jeff Compton: Um, this is what we, this is the way we want it turned out, and we're gonna pay you four for it, because we feel that it's not your fault that the time got slashed because of their defect." But nobody's willing to have those kind of conversations, and that's where I guess for me, you know... And I'm the same as you.

[00:15:29] Jeff Compton: I got tired of it, like, and it wasn't a situation of a warranty job that, that irked me. It was the way, you know, advisors would just expect you to do things for free. A salesman, a service manager would expect you to, you know, "I'll make it up on the next one." Uh, you know, like- 

[00:15:42] Eric Schoenberger: Yeah, that car never shows up.

[00:15:45] Jeff Compton: Or it goes to the wrong tech. It gets dispatched to the guy across the bay from you. 

[00:15:49] Eric Schoenberger: Yeah. "

[00:15:50] Jeff Compton: Well, shoot, like I f- I'm sorry, I didn't see those notes in there." Yeah, whatever. 

[00:15:54] Eric Schoenberger: Yeah. "I didn't know it was you that worked on it. Yeah, I looked at it." 

[00:15:59] Jeff Compton: You're like, "You know, you frigging jerk, I've got the part, you know, the plate number written in my, in my logbook."

[00:16:04] Jeff Compton: Did you keep a notebook like I did? 

[00:16:06] Eric Schoenberger: Yes, I did. 

[00:16:07] Jeff Compton: Yeah. Kind of a key important thing I tell a lot of young techs, I ca- I kept... Well, at first what I would do is if it was somebody's comeback, I'd f- I'd photocopy the original work order or I'd print it out. Um, and I kept that file, right? So I started to build my own file of cars that were problematic within our dealer.

[00:16:28] Jeff Compton: And when the cars were fixed, I had this file, this book of, of stuff that I'd solved and how I did it and, you know. But we all made a notebook of, like, at least our work order numbers and, uh, what the job was supposed to pay when we were done. Um, and then if we did wa- make one that had a lot of recs on it, and we were told, "Yeah, they're gonna reschedule," um, we made sure to write that all down, because otherwise you...

[00:16:52] Jeff Compton: 'Cause unfortunately, the amount of car count that was coming in sometimes, you know this, Eric, it does slip by the advisor. It just happens, right? 

[00:17:00] Eric Schoenberger: Oh, yeah. 

[00:17:01] Jeff Compton: So I mean, they're human too. But processes in place should be when the appointment's made, they should be able to pull the history, look at it, and go, "Okay, those recs were done by, you know, Techs 11270."

[00:17:13] Jeff Compton: That was my old tech number. And it should be in the queue waiting for me to do. You know, not like, "Oh, they're here. We gotta give it to anybody." Like, that's not how that's supposed to work. So. 

[00:17:24] Eric Schoenberger: Yeah. 

[00:17:25] Jeff Compton: What's, um... When you look back, what are some of the stuff that you really liked doing when you were at the dealer?

[00:17:32] Eric Schoenberger: Uh, of course drivability. 

[00:17:34] Jeff Compton: Yeah. 

[00:17:35] Eric Schoenberger: Um, I liked electrical. 

[00:17:37] Jeff Compton: Mm-hmm. 

[00:17:38] Eric Schoenberger: Um, recalls when they used to pay good. Um- 

[00:17:43] Jeff Compton: Did you go transmissions like your dad or did you stay 

[00:17:45] Eric Schoenberger: with- No, I didn't. No. The dealer I was at with him didn't wanna risk me going through a learning curve on it. Um- Mm-hmm ... I would do some transmission work, but not a rebuild.

[00:17:58] Jeff Compton: Right. 

[00:17:58] Eric Schoenberger: Just a- Like put a valve body in or, you know Maybe put a torque converter in, something like that, but not a complete rebuild. He did... They had him for front-wheel drive and another guy for rear-wheel drive. Okay. 

[00:18:11] Jeff Compton: Okay '

[00:18:12] Eric Schoenberger: Cause we had such a big amount of transmissions coming in back in the- 

[00:18:17] Jeff Compton: Yeah ... 

[00:18:17] Eric Schoenberger: late '90s, early 2000s.

[00:18:19] Jeff Compton: Yeah. They were pretty problematic back in the day, for sure. I mean- Yeah ... which, you know, kinda a lot of people's... It's not that they were the only people with transmission issues. I can remember my buddy at the same time, Nissan had a, uh, an extended campaign where they were going in and changing, you know, 'cause it wouldn't go in reverse when it was cold, and they were, they were...

[00:18:41] Jeff Compton: Every tech in the building was doing that at, at his dealer anyway. They could all do it. And I'm thinking, "So that's like..." But they had it down to a science where it was like they knew when it came in, this is just the part you put in. It seemed with Chrysler, like it didn't matter what the complaint was, um, they all seemed to get like a full overhaul.

[00:19:02] Jeff Compton: Yeah. When they were, when they were out of warranty, and when they were within warranty, they only seemed to get like, you know, one set of clutches or, you know, maybe a, a valve body, like you said. And we would see these keep coming back and coming back and coming back, and it's like, "Why, why are we putting a valve body in when it's, you know, obviously a slip in overdrive?"

[00:19:23] Jeff Compton: Which we knew on the trucks why that was happening, right? Those little cooler lines would- Yeah ... burn out the planetary for the overdrive, right? Like it was just- 

[00:19:31] Eric Schoenberger: Well, I remember Dad getting frustrated. He'd build one back when they didn't have good programming- Mm-hmm ... and it would just destroy him. He said, "I'm, I build it, it's gonna come back," and- 

[00:19:42] Jeff Compton: Yeah

[00:19:42] Eric Schoenberger: then finally Chrysler realized, you know, change the software, and you put a TCM in them. 

[00:19:48] Jeff Compton: Yeah. Yeah. And I can remember I saw more than one come in before they had a separate TCM, and they would have a rebuild... This is, like, front-wheel drive car, like say the old sh- uh, Shadows, you know, the, the kind of the...

[00:20:06] Jeff Compton: And they'd have, like, new overdrives in them, and they'd be back in limp again. And they're like, "It was just overhauled. Why it'd be in limp? Be a wiring problem, right?" Yep. Like it was... You know, and, and so that was always really, you know, it was weird to me because it was like trying to get them sometimes, you know how it is, to act up intermittently before you can say, "Yes, okay, it's an electrical problem," or, "Yes, it's a, it's, um, you know, uh, needs an overhaul."

[00:20:35] Jeff Compton: Like you and I re- remember the input and output speed sensors that would go bad all the time, but that became pretty straightforward. Like you just- Oh, 

[00:20:42] Eric Schoenberger: yeah. The, the, yeah, the '99, 2000. Yeah. Yep. 

[00:20:47] Jeff Compton: And, you know, that got to be where it was like everybody could, could diagnose that. But if you had one like in limp or not communicating, then it was like kicked to somebody a little more, you know, specialized or that wiring harness going to the, to the, you know, um, valve...

[00:21:04] Jeff Compton: Not the valve body, the, the block that sat on top of the transmission. 

[00:21:08] Eric Schoenberger: Sol- solenoid pack. 

[00:21:10] Jeff Compton: Solenoid packs that used to leak and, you know, like we all did solenoid packs, all of us. 

[00:21:13] Eric Schoenberger: Oh, yeah. 

[00:21:14] Jeff Compton: But I can remember after you do the solenoid pack, half of them would come back with this weird electrical problem. It was because you just disturbed that harness that wasn't- Uh-huh

[00:21:22] Jeff Compton: secured very well, and all of a sudden now you're tearing that sucker open again, right? Um- 

[00:21:27] Eric Schoenberger: Yeah. Or I had a lot of round pin terminals on input- Mm ... well, vehicle speed sensor- Yeah ... when they used to put them on there. I had a Dynasty U when the speedometer quit working, listen for the door locks to kick in.

[00:21:40] Eric Schoenberger: If it didn't, it's out there. If they did, you had a speedo head. Very 

[00:21:46] Jeff Compton: cool. Yep. I can... And I, I'm old enough too. I can remember when, you know, you used to get like a, a speed sensor fault and you'd take it out And you'd, they didn't give you a new gear. You took the old gear off the old one, put it back in, and it was, like, same sensor and a whole bunch of different gears, right?

[00:22:03] Jeff Compton: A little plastic gear. Uh-huh. I can remember more than one guy going, "Um, my speedo's not working." I'm like, "Did you put the gear in?" He's like, "Oh, shoot, it's sitting on the old part right on my bench." Like, they just, you get rushed, right? You forget to put the gear in. Oh, yeah. Ah, it was funny that way. Yep. I enjoyed the product, like, I really did.

[00:22:21] Jeff Compton: You know? Yeah. I loved, I loved Caravans. I loved... I didn't do a lot of Nissan, or Nissan, Neon head gaskets. Um- 

[00:22:28] Eric Schoenberger: I did 

[00:22:28] Jeff Compton: a 

[00:22:29] Eric Schoenberger: bunch of them. 

[00:22:30] Jeff Compton: Yeah? Probably pretty quick at them, eh? 

[00:22:32] Eric Schoenberger: Oh, yeah. Yeah. 

[00:22:33] Jeff Compton: Yeah. 

[00:22:34] Eric Schoenberger: It, it got frustrating in the beginning, all the different design changes, and when they went to MLS, that took care of it.

[00:22:41] Jeff Compton: Yeah. E- yeah, and that was the thing. Like, y- everybody's like, "Oh, it's leaking again." I'm like, "Hmm," we'd see them, and they didn't always leak again. You know? Like, it wasn't- Yeah ... that gasket seemed to fix a lot of the problems. You'd see the rear main leak a lot after that. Oh, yeah. We know why that happened.

[00:22:57] Jeff Compton: Guys would pound the balancer on, right? Instead of press it on. Yep. Uh, beat the cr- the thrust bearing right out. But, you know, I can remember the 2.7 being, when they first rolled, how big a turd they were if they weren't neglect- like, if they weren't- 

[00:23:12] Eric Schoenberger: Oh, 

[00:23:12] Jeff Compton: yeah ... uh, the maintenance wasn't done. But, you know, a 2.7 chain job in a Sebring was the, probably the worst job that I ever did.

[00:23:20] Jeff Compton: Like, I hated that. 

[00:23:21] Eric Schoenberger: Yeah. Um- Yeah, I did a few of them. I didn't care for it. 

[00:23:24] Jeff Compton: And the PT Cruiser timing belt, I never liked that either. I know guys do them, and they like it, but I hated it. The, you thought you were gonna break something, you had to jack that sucker up so high to, you know, line your marks up, that it was just like, never again.

[00:23:37] Jeff Compton: So. I just- And they were weird, right? With the- 

[00:23:40] Eric Schoenberger: Yeah. I just did power steering lines on a Turbo Cruiser couple weeks ago. Oh. And I'm like, "Yeah, I don't miss them." 

[00:23:49] Jeff Compton: I still, I still see them around, and I'm like, "Holy crap, people are still driving a PT Cruiser, eh?" Like, it just- 

[00:23:55] Eric Schoenberger: Yeah ... 

[00:23:55] Jeff Compton: you know. I can remember the, when they first hit in, uh, in Detroit at the, probably was the Chrysler Building, how they had one look like it was driving right out of the Chrysler Building, right?

[00:24:06] Jeff Compton: Like, you know, 100 stories up, and how everybody, how they flocked to the dealer to buy that car and paid way above sticker 'cause they wanted to have it. Oh, 

[00:24:14] Eric Schoenberger: yeah. You know? That's the way the dealer was I was at at the time. It's like, "That's insane. Now you can give them away." 

[00:24:22] Jeff Compton: And then you getting in to drive it, and it's like, eh, it's, it's not that appealing.

[00:24:27] Jeff Compton: Like, it's You know, it's just- I 

[00:24:28] Eric Schoenberger: did like you're sitting higher up in it, like, compared to a car, but yeah. 

[00:24:33] Jeff Compton: Yeah. Uh, I had a good customer, a, a young lady, well, she wasn't so, she wouldn't be so young now, um, that the reason she... And she hated everything else about the car, but she had some back issues, and it was the way the seat was, and like you said, the way you sat in the car, it was the most comfortable f- car for her she ever drove.

[00:24:52] Jeff Compton: So she threw good money after bad at that thing because she, she just, she didn't wanna get a car that would hurt her back, you know? 

[00:25:00] Eric Schoenberger: Um- Yeah, I had a few customers like that with them, that that was the only small car they could drive. 

[00:25:05] Jeff Compton: Yeah, yeah. 

[00:25:06] Eric Schoenberger: Yeah. 

[00:25:06] Jeff Compton: And the turbo ones were fun to drive, but I mean- Oh, yeah

[00:25:09] Jeff Compton: like, I, I hated the... It was a blind sp- like, which every Chrysler comes with a free blind spot, at least one. And, um, but I, I hated the way they looked and sounded. That stupid, we called it the Watts link at the back that would hit on the axle when it was worn out, and the- 

[00:25:25] Eric Schoenberger: Oh, yes. Start banging. 

[00:25:27] Jeff Compton: Yeah. Control arm bushings, like, they were going out of style.

[00:25:29] Jeff Compton: Like- 

[00:25:30] Eric Schoenberger: Mm-hmm ... 

[00:25:31] Jeff Compton: we just, uh, uh, just, oh, yeah, just gross. 

[00:25:35] Eric Schoenberger: But I liked the support Chrysler had back then for, like, training and- 

[00:25:41] Jeff Compton: Yeah. Yeah ... 

[00:25:42] Eric Schoenberger: you know, tech, tech advisors that actually knew what they were doing rather than just authorize you a parts replacement. 

[00:25:50] Jeff Compton: Yeah. Well, I can still, the part number, or part number, the phone number for Chrysler Techline used to have, like, you'd get a sticker that was stuck on your, um, work cabinet over them, 1-800-361-2702, right?

[00:26:03] Jeff Compton: And then you pumped in your d- your dealer plate number- Mm-hmm ... and, and you talked to somebody. And I re- still remember, and everybody's like, "Holy crap, Jeff, you must have called them a lot." I did. Yeah. I worked for them nine years. I did call them a lot. I didn't have to call them on every car, but it, it just became part of the routine, that- Mm

[00:26:20] Jeff Compton: when it was, like, a month old and sitting there with some weird problem, you called them. Because I'm sure you know, Eric, and, and experienced it, you'd be able to call them up and say, "I got one doing this, but I can't get it to happen all the time," and they'd be like, "Yeah, we've had five cases of that, and, um, you know, three technicians found this.

[00:26:40] Jeff Compton: Go check there." Now, I don't know what it's like now, 'cause it's been a long time since I've been at Chrysler, but now I know if it's anything like Nissan, you're not talking to people anymore. You're just sending- No, 

[00:26:51] Eric Schoenberger: it's AI. The first response is AI generated, and they just regurgitate the book to you.

[00:26:57] Eric Schoenberger: Well, I can read the book. 

[00:26:58] Jeff Compton: Right. Yeah. Yeah. I remember you would talk to them and you'd call them up, and, uh, I still, my buddy Mike is better at remembering their names, 'cause he, he went to training with a lot of them up here in the Canadian side, and it was like they would say, "Oh, you check the wiring."

[00:27:15] Jeff Compton: "Yeah, checked the wiring." Then they'd say, "How'd you check it?" And you go, "What do you mean, how'd I check it?" "Oh, like, how'd you check your powers?" And then they, that's where the first, like, people started talking to me about- It was like part of their process was loaded power check- Uh-huh ... loaded ground. You know, they'd say, "Go get yourself an old 904 bulb," you know, and, and like, "If it'll, if it'll light up that, you, you need a fuel pump."

[00:27:40] Jeff Compton: They'd say stuff like that. And I'm just like, "How come that's not in the book?" 

[00:27:45] Eric Schoenberger: Yeah. 

[00:27:46] Jeff Compton: You know? Like, the guys at Techline all know. Uh-huh. Why is it not... So what, um So when you say the political thing, when you're talking about that particular, um, recall was enough to kind of the final straws there. What, what did a typical day look like for you?

[00:28:08] Eric Schoenberger: Well, I, I would get a lot of the, you know, more diagnostic stuff, and the recall bit, once we had a guy start bragging he could make that time, then they started pushing them over to him. But I just, I finally got tired of warranty t- not getting paid properly for tickets 'cause they had an outside firm doing it.

[00:28:34] Jeff Compton: Really, 

[00:28:35] Eric Schoenberger: eh? Um, you know, and then they liked the younger guys. 

[00:28:38] Jeff Compton: Yeah. 

[00:28:39] Eric Schoenberger: It was like a friend of mine still works there. He's got three years left to go, and he's gonna retire for good, and he's been a Chrysler tech all of his life, and- 

[00:28:49] Jeff Compton: Mm-hmm ... 

[00:28:50] Eric Schoenberger: he's just hanging in there. And I told him, I said, "I, you know, I'm 50 years old."

[00:28:55] Jeff Compton: Yeah. "

[00:28:55] Eric Schoenberger: It's time to do it or I never will." 

[00:28:58] Jeff Compton: Yeah. 

[00:28:59] Eric Schoenberger: But yeah, just, and the service manager not holding anybody accountable, you know, that typical stuff. 

[00:29:06] Jeff Compton: Mm-hmm. 

[00:29:07] Eric Schoenberger: But I enjoyed working next to my friend, you know, 'cause we would help each other out, you know? And that was one thing w- really worthwhile. The first couple years there at that dealership were nice.

[00:29:19] Jeff Compton: Mm-hmm. 

[00:29:20] Eric Schoenberger: And then they started adding more and more people, well, we'll drive the total shop count up. 

[00:29:25] Jeff Compton: Yeah. 

[00:29:25] Eric Schoenberger: And that brings individuals down. 

[00:29:28] Jeff Compton: Yeah, for sure. Yeah. And, uh, you know, I talked, I've talked lots. There was a core group of us, like four of us, that got a lot of the diag and drivability dispatch to us, right?

[00:29:37] Jeff Compton: So we all were very good at sharing and helping one another, right? 'Cause it's, that's just the only way you're gonna survive it is if you see some- Oh, yeah ... somebody comes over, your bay mate, right, and says, "Hey, did you not have this last week?" And you're like, "Oh yeah, I know exactly." And you'd walk over and pull the carpet up and say, "You see that right there?

[00:29:54] Jeff Compton: That's what mine was," right? Or I can, I can still remember the, when the TIPMs got bad and the, the wiring connected underneath the TIPM, like the... It was bad. Front control modules on the old Caravans, like- Oh, yeah ... you know, we, we all had a known good front control module, and it's, the first thing you did was just take the four screws out, swap it, you know, cycle your key, see would it change.

[00:30:15] Jeff Compton: If it didn't change anything else, then you unbolted the box, plugged the new box in. You probably, when you turned your box over, saw the corro- corrosion coming out of it, and you just, you know, changed it And then you proceeded on with your day, and you do that three, four times a day. Um, I liked it because it was, it was just enough of a variety to keep me interested, but it was like you could kinda come in, and if you were having, you know, an off day, you could skate by.

[00:30:44] Jeff Compton: And there was always enough good work on the cars that, you know, you could, you could make a good living. Like, I, I never was 100 an hour, you know, every two weeks kinda guy. I was always a 40 to 50 guy, you know, consistent. 

[00:30:57] Eric Schoenberger: Yeah, that's what I've always been. 

[00:30:59] Jeff Compton: The guys that were, say they make 100, uh, shoosh. I never saw anybody at Crosser hit 100 in, in a week, you know.

[00:31:07] Jeff Compton: I heard about a guy that, but To say that he wasn't doing the work would be, um, yeah, would be, uh, would be saying it too nicely. Um, he was really bad for not, uh, not doing the whole ticket, I guess, is the right way to say it. 

[00:31:26] Eric Schoenberger: Yeah. The highest I ever hit was about 85 a week, and that was when I was doing 12-hour days in the shop.

[00:31:34] Jeff Compton: Yes. 

[00:31:34] Eric Schoenberger: And I was living in there, and I finally got... I was like, "That's enough of that." 

[00:31:39] Jeff Compton: Mm-hmm. "

[00:31:40] Eric Schoenberger: There's more to life than this." 

[00:31:42] Jeff Compton: And I, I would do that a lot too, and I would do it same as probably you had to, sometimes just to keep, to catch up to where the other guys were. Yeah. Because, right, like, if you're doing a diag under warranty, maybe the best you could get would be straight time.

[00:31:54] Jeff Compton: Um- Mm-hmm ... you know. Like the retail diag, once you knew the pattern failures was pretty good. Um, and a lot of customers, like, if it wasn't a pattern failure and it was something weird, they got scared away right away with, like, the f-three hours to start, you know? And that was hard for an advisor back then.

[00:32:09] Jeff Compton: I can remember when the door rate was $110, and it was really hard for the advisor to sell, you know, two hours of diag to start. Like, "Two hours of diag? Like, that's crazy. Like, can't sell that." And I'm like, "You know, this thing only acts up every two weeks, and you have to hit a certain bump in the road and to get it to happen.

[00:32:28] Jeff Compton: Like, you're gonna need at least two hours to duplicate that." 

[00:32:30] Eric Schoenberger: Yeah, or you gotta tear down something to- 

[00:32:33] Jeff Compton: Absolutely ... 

[00:32:33] Eric Schoenberger: get where you need to be. 

[00:32:35] Jeff Compton: Oh, and that was the thing. Do you remember when the, some of the Caravans, and you probably remember the 3.5s more so, and the Magnums and the LX cars, but the valves would burn, and they would pit.

[00:32:45] Jeff Compton: Uh-huh. Yeah. I remember that, and it was, like, the first... 'Cause, you know, the Caravans would do it too, the 3.3s and the 3.8s, but not as common. But, uh, until they came to the Pentastar, and then they, uh, valves were big. Yeah. But, um, I can remember the first Magnum I had that had that misfire that would sometimes be there and sometimes w- wouldn't be, and I remember tearing that down, and I was like, "Look at this.

[00:33:10] Jeff Compton: This is crazy." Like, you wouldn't think in a modern car that it would get pitted valves like that. Uh-huh. But it was just, you know, the way they drove them. I, I used to say it was always a Magnum because just that extra weight that the, the 300 didn't have, they didn't e- they, they got into the throttle even less.

[00:33:27] Jeff Compton: And then for the people that aren't familiar, they revised the valve, um, the keepers so that the valves would rotate a little more and keep the carbon from burning the valve. But, uh, I remember the first couple I did, I was like, "This is..." You know, 'cause they would come back Somebody else tuned it up and it was still multiple cylinder misfire, and you'd sit there and look at your data, and it'd be jumping all over and...

[00:33:47] Jeff Compton: But your fuel trims would be perfect, and you're like, "What's going on?" And it wouldn't show up always on a vacuum gauge. Everybody's like, "Oh, a vacuum gauge would've showed you that." Nope, not always. 

[00:33:56] Eric Schoenberger: I got in the habit of watching the misfire counter. If it clocked at an idle and- Yes ... get above it, usually your valve was junk.

[00:34:03] Eric Schoenberger: And 

[00:34:05] Jeff Compton: that's key, and that still holds so true, right? Even now on the Pentastar, you see guys post and they're like, "Uh, I got, you know, this miss at idle." And it's like, miss at idle on a Chrysler is, is a valve. You know? Yeah. It c- it could be the other... You know, an injector, but it's 98% of the time it's a valve.

[00:34:22] Jeff Compton: Oh, yeah. Don't overthink this. Like, you know, find another way to go in and check it. Like... And back in the day, you couldn't buy a borescope the way you could now for the price, right? You can remember why- Oh, yeah ... they were an expensive tool, and now every technician, I'd argue, probably that does any kind of diag has got at least one, you know?

[00:34:41] Jeff Compton: Um, and it makes that a lot easier. When I think about the ones that trip me up, that if I'd'a had a working borescope I could've just jammed down in the hole and known in two seconds. Yeah. Yeah. Very valuable tool. 

[00:34:52] Eric Schoenberger: Or a lab scope relative compression nowadays. That's, that's a game changer. 

[00:34:57] Jeff Compton: Well, and do you remember, you remember the DRB3?

[00:35:01] Eric Schoenberger: Uh-huh. 

[00:35:02] Jeff Compton: Do you remember the lab scope kit that came with it? 

[00:35:04] Eric Schoenberger: Oh, yes. I used it a few times. 

[00:35:06] Jeff Compton: See, I watched one guy in my whole career that actually know how to set that up and use it, which was im- incredible to me. Like, but he, again, he had been at a dealer. Uh, Colin was his name. He'd been at a dealer that was straight times, so Colin learned how to use it, and he still didn't have to pull it out a lot of the time to use it, but he was the only one that I'd seen.

[00:35:26] Jeff Compton: And I can remember it was, like, all the other guys that had been in the dealer, like, as long as him, but a different dealer, are like, "What are you doing?" And they're all coming over and wa- "Hey," like, asking all these questions. And I'm like... I was so green I didn't even know what an oscilloscope was. And now when I think about how much we do with an oscilloscope now, it's just, it's amazing to me that the dealers haven't embraced that in the sense that, like, they, they make it an essential tool and tell you to use it, but they're not paying the techs to use it, and they're still- Yeah

[00:35:54] Jeff Compton: not paying them. Yeah. 

[00:35:56] Eric Schoenberger: Yeah, 'cause they supply a Pico now, but- 

[00:35:58] Jeff Compton: Yeah ... 

[00:35:59] Eric Schoenberger: they don't pay you very well to use it. 

[00:36:01] Jeff Compton: No. 

[00:36:01] Eric Schoenberger: I think I've only looked at a couple of cars ever with it, just 'cause why would you, you're not gonna get paid for it. 

[00:36:07] Jeff Compton: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. You know, and you know what it is. Like, we, you know, we know... I can remember when the Chryslers ha- or Chryslers, the Caravans had issues with the coils.

[00:36:18] Jeff Compton: And I can remember when, you know, the PT Cruiser and the Neon, that generation had issues with spark plug boots and, and the ignition wires. Like, you could drive it and you knew what you were, you were feeling what, you knew what it was. Oh, yeah. Come back and write your estimate, right? And, um, it, it just became You know, until the Pentastar came along, I always felt they were pretty simple to diagnose.

[00:36:41] Jeff Compton: And then not that the Pentastar is hard, but the Pentastar is hard from the sense of, like, you're always kind of... in the dealer, I think, maybe you can confirm, you're always kind of patching that thing together unless you do it the right way. You know what I mean? Because it's, they're so light. 

[00:36:55] Eric Schoenberger: Yeah, and different diagnos- like variable cam timing.

[00:37:00] Eric Schoenberger: The early ones had the phaser knock. 

[00:37:02] Jeff Compton: Yeah. Yeah. 

[00:37:03] Eric Schoenberger: Um, then you got the oil pump ones. It just... The cylinder head, I, I liked them. I actually did pretty good with those. 

[00:37:11] Jeff Compton: Mm-hmm. 

[00:37:12] Eric Schoenberger: Yeah. Pull them with the timing cover still on there and- Yeah, my bu- ... slam it in there. 

[00:37:16] Jeff Compton: My buddy, he loves them. He'll do one a day. You know, sometimes he'll start at 8:00 in the morning, it's 2:00 in the afternoon and he's, it's, you know, it's running again, and he's, and he took a 30-minute break for lunch.

[00:37:27] Jeff Compton: You know? Like, he's, he's fast at them. But he's done well into the hundreds of them at this point, right? You know, whether it's the head- Right ... gasket, the cam, or like he's just... And then you see now, I don't know if you've seen, the guys when they're doing the cams, they're leaving the phase, the chain right on, and they're backing the cam off the ch- off the phaser, off the- Yeah, 

[00:37:47] Eric Schoenberger: because the chain won't fall due to the way the timing cover's designed.

[00:37:51] Jeff Compton: Yeah. 

[00:37:51] Eric Schoenberger: Which I think that's cool 

[00:37:54] Jeff Compton: Right? But it's like, you know, at first when I bought my Jeep, I was like, oh, you hear all these problems with Pentastar, right? And then it's like once you start talking to some guys that you know, they're like, "Pfft, no. What are you talking about? I do all the lifters in, like, two hours."

[00:38:07] Jeff Compton: I'm like, "How do you do all that?" And they're like, "Oh, I just lift it up and cheat and slide it out," and all that. 

[00:38:11] Eric Schoenberger: Yeah. 

[00:38:12] Jeff Compton: You know. Um, I love mine. Mine's been so good to me. Um, every Jeep, every Chrysler I've ever had, honestly, has been good to me, really. 

[00:38:20] Eric Schoenberger: Yeah. 

[00:38:21] Jeff Compton: You know? Like, I had a, I had an '86, uh, 600- 

[00:38:27] Eric Schoenberger: Oh, 

[00:38:27] Jeff Compton: yeah

[00:38:27] Jeff Compton: hatch back. Loved that little thing, a little two-door car. Um- Yeah ... '91, uh, LeBaron Turbo, loved that car. After that it was all Jeep after that. Had a little shag out time. Yeah, 

[00:38:41] Eric Schoenberger: I got, I got a four-liter Jeep. That's enough. Yeah. 

[00:38:46] Jeff Compton: Yeah. Then, uh, I s- see they rot so bad up here now, right? Like, you see them once in a while.

[00:38:51] Jeff Compton: I saw one the other day- Yeah ... it was in good shape. And once in a while you'll see one pop up in Facebook Marketplace, and they want, like, five grand, and it's not rusted, you know, and it's low mileage. And I'm like, I'm almost tempted to go buy that, and I'm like, eh, for what? Like, to get worse fuel mileage than my 3.6 gets, right?

[00:39:07] Jeff Compton: Like to- 

[00:39:08] Eric Schoenberger: Yeah ... 

[00:39:08] Jeff Compton: you know? Yes, it's way easier to fix, but I mean, I, I... Two of my Cherokees I did head gaskets in. Like, the four-liter would get a head gasket problem if you drove it long enough. Now I'm talking, like- 

[00:39:19] Eric Schoenberger: Yeah ... 

[00:39:20] Jeff Compton: up over 300,000 kilometers, so well up over 200,000 miles when it happens. 

[00:39:25] Eric Schoenberger: Yeah. 

[00:39:25] Jeff Compton: But, uh, you know, such an easy one to do, too, right?

[00:39:28] Jeff Compton: Like, I never saw... I saw one four-liter failed terminally ever in all my years at Chrysler, and that had a window in the block. They punched a hole right through it, and he punched a hole right through it because he, um, he treated it like a submarine. 

[00:39:43] Eric Schoenberger: Oh, 

[00:39:44] Jeff Compton: yeah. It was in water, and then they drug it up on the bank and didn't pull the plugs and just started cranking her over and, you know, how that goes.

[00:39:50] Jeff Compton: Yeah. But otherwise- 

[00:39:51] Eric Schoenberger: You can't compress liquids. 

[00:39:54] Jeff Compton: We never saw, you know, them come in for bearing issues in the bottom end or cranks or nothing. No. They just, you know, head gaskets and valves and that was it, you know? Noisy lifters- Yeah ... once in a while. They were great. That four liter, when they, oof, yeah, when, when they brought the 3.7 in the Liberty, it was like we knew it was, you know, not long for this world for the Cherokee.

[00:40:17] Jeff Compton: We're like, "This is such a letdown compared to- Oh, 

[00:40:20] Eric Schoenberger: yeah ... 

[00:40:22] Jeff Compton: the Cherokee." Like, it was such a letdown. So... 

[00:40:24] Eric Schoenberger: But yeah, the 3.6, they got their problems, but I think maintenance is a big- 

[00:40:30] Jeff Compton: Yeah ... 

[00:40:30] Eric Schoenberger: deal, 'cause I got a friend that's got a Charger with 300K on it, no rocker arm issues. Yep. He changes his oil religiously, does the maintenance.

[00:40:39] Jeff Compton: Yeah, 

[00:40:39] Eric Schoenberger: same- He's putting an oil pump in it. That's about the only major thing he's done. 

[00:40:44] Jeff Compton: Yeah. Yeah. I've got a '15, so I don't even know, God, I can't remember if it's got that variable output oil pump in it or not, you know? They all do. Yeah. Okay, so that's- Yeah ... but I've got, I've had no issues with it, no faults, no, no nothing.

[00:40:59] Jeff Compton: You know, no codes, no... I just change my oil every 3,000 miles, you know? Yeah. Pennzoil Platinum and, and zero issues. Zero, zero noises, zero check engine light, like, none of that. Uh-huh. It's all good. You know, I got a check engine light for a thermostat being bad, but I mean, what Pentastar doesn't need? So- 

[00:41:18] Eric Schoenberger: Yeah, and that's, that's a piece of cake.

[00:41:21] Jeff Compton: Did you 

[00:41:22] Eric Schoenberger: get into the- If you can find one. 

[00:41:23] Jeff Compton: Yeah. That's back ordered, eh? Did you get into the diesel stuff, Eric? 

[00:41:28] Eric Schoenberger: Uh, very little. Um, when I moved away from the f- dealer I was at with Dad, I got into them a little bit 'cause- Oh ... the place I was at with him, we had a separate truck shop. 

[00:41:41] Jeff Compton: Okay. 

[00:41:41] Eric Schoenberger: And they did all the diesel work.

[00:41:43] Eric Schoenberger: I only would, might program one or do a fuel filter. But other than that, I've changed an injector here and there, but I'm not real strong in diesel. 

[00:41:53] Jeff Compton: Yeah, yeah. 

[00:41:54] Eric Schoenberger: I- Um, replaced a few EcoDiesels.

[00:41:59] Jeff Compton: Oh, they were a turd. Oh my God. Yeah 

[00:42:03] Eric Schoenberger: Grand Cherokee was actually easier than I thought it was gonna be doing one of them 

[00:42:07] Jeff Compton: Yeah. 

[00:42:08] Eric Schoenberger: Drop it out the bottom 

[00:42:09] Jeff Compton: I, I can remember when that Mercedes first hit in the Grand Cherokees, and they were showing us how if you had one that was, like, five years old and you needed to put a long block in it, you exceeded the value of the car, the Grand Cherokee, by just buying the engine.

[00:42:23] Jeff Compton: Yeah. Just buying the part exceeded the value. Before you ever even paid for labor, it was ridiculous. You know? And I felt bad for the people that bought them, 'cause they were turds. And then they- Oh, yeah ... of course, you know, that engine hangs in there right until Stellantis comes along, and it's like, how did that engine that was such a turd last so long, you know?

[00:42:44] Jeff Compton: I mean, I can remember guys were trying to figure out how to take one out of a Sprinter and make it work in a Grand Cherokee, because there's a lot of different parts that go into it. But essentially it's like, "Oh, it's the same block." Yeah, but it's... There's a lot of things that change to make it work in a Sprinter versus work in a Grand Cherokee.

[00:42:59] Jeff Compton: But like anything else, somebody f- found out something, figured out a way. That crank reluctor on the back of them, that was the, you 

[00:43:05] Eric Schoenberger: know- Oh, yes ... 

[00:43:07] Jeff Compton: that was a brilliant design. 

[00:43:08] Eric Schoenberger: Yeah, I did a few of them. And then, uh, remember Jeep Liberty diesel? 

[00:43:12] Jeff Compton: Yes. Oh, great. 

[00:43:14] Eric Schoenberger: Worked on a few of them. 

[00:43:16] Jeff Compton: That stupid EGR valve, which, well, you know- Yeah

[00:43:18] Jeff Compton: it had an EGR valve, and it was just like... And I, oh, I just... What a, what a turd that thing was. I- in theory, very cool, right? And I know I talked- Yeah ... to guys, like, way back in the day that were like, in Europe they sold really well, and people loved them. And it would've been, if it hadn't have had the, like everything else, if it hadn't have had the emissions crap on it that we had to run here, like, you could sell them like they were going out of style.

[00:43:42] Jeff Compton: Like, it would've been an amazing little, little car, like a little SUV. But no, of course we had to use that, and EG- uh, it just... Yeah, I can remember EGR and, uh, turbo problems, and I can remember, like, you know, software updates that were supposedly gonna fix it, and it was just junk, you know? 

[00:44:03] Eric Schoenberger: Yeah. 

[00:44:04] Jeff Compton: Ball joint recall paid good.

[00:44:05] Jeff Compton: Yep. I liked doing them. Yeah. But... And, uh- Yeah ... same with the Dakota upper ball joint recall. That was a great recall. Yeah, 

[00:44:13] Eric Schoenberger: loved those. 

[00:44:14] Jeff Compton: Yeah, paid well. 

[00:44:16] Eric Schoenberger: Mm-hmm. 

[00:44:16] Jeff Compton: Hands and an air hammer was Dakota, but I mean, yeah, it- Yeah ... it paid good, you know? Um, God, what else, man? 

[00:44:25] Eric Schoenberger: Rollover valves on Ram trucks. I loved that recall.

[00:44:29] Jeff Compton: I didn't get to- 

[00:44:29] Eric Schoenberger: Getting them out to the parking lot. 

[00:44:31] Jeff Compton: Yeah, I didn't get to do one of those. I remember, God, we'd go back to the PT Cruiser, that one where you would drop the fuel tank and put the foam on top of the f- 

[00:44:40] Eric Schoenberger: Yes. So to sop up the fuel leak. 

[00:44:46] Jeff Compton: That was such, that paid well. Um- 

[00:44:49] Eric Schoenberger: Yeah ... 

[00:44:49] Jeff Compton: I can remember the, the Caravans when they still had a fuel filter, those paid really good.

[00:44:54] Jeff Compton: They were so easy to do. Mm-hmm. Um, it was, uh, they weren't hard to make money on, man. Um, EGR valves- Yeah ... on Caravans when they first came out, like they were- 

[00:45:02] Eric Schoenberger: Oh, yeah ... 

[00:45:03] Jeff Compton: you'd diagnose that in the parking lot, right? Like you just, it was never- Yep ... everybody jokes, but it was never anything but the valve. It always was the valve, you know?

[00:45:10] Eric Schoenberger: Yeah. 

[00:45:11] Jeff Compton: Never saw it be anything but. Um, and it would really trip you up when it wasn't, like, you didn't have a code for it, but it was doing other things. I f- oof, I remember I had one, and it was like it would throw a MAP sensor fault and im- and intermittently she'd say, "I have no throttle." And, uh, I'm coming in, I'm looking, "Oh, MAP sensor, MAP sensor."

[00:45:29] Jeff Compton: And then of course the light bulb, and you're like, "Oh, dumbass. It's the EGR valve," right? But, you know. I, first one I ever did where I blocked off the flow, right, make a, make a gasket, stop the EGR from flowing and drive it. Yeah. Holy crap, do they ever ping without an EGR valve . 

[00:45:46] Eric Schoenberger: Yep. 

[00:45:46] Jeff Compton: Like, it was like, you know, you didn't think a modern car would still rely on it that much, but holy crap.

[00:45:53] Jeff Compton: I can just remember just off idle it sounded like, you know, gravel in a coffee can. Like, it was crazy, man. But- 

[00:45:59] Eric Schoenberger: I remember when 5.2, 5.9 Rams, they, when they did away with the EGR in '98- Yeah ... how they had pinging, and you had to reroute the plug wires and all that crap. 

[00:46:10] Jeff Compton: Do you remember the, the, and then the intake plenum gasket would blow out?

[00:46:12] Jeff Compton: Yep. 

[00:46:13] Eric Schoenberger: Did a lot of them. Those 

[00:46:14] Jeff Compton: were... That was a gravy job. Yep. I loved those jobs. 

[00:46:16] Eric Schoenberger: Loved- Put a steel one in it with new bolts and- Oh ... send it down the road. 

[00:46:21] Jeff Compton: And I s- oh, I still remember the first customer that I saw one that I had to do. We'd done an oil change on it. Not me, it'd been done in our drive-through, uh, 'cause we had a time in a Quick Lube.

[00:46:32] Jeff Compton: And he was gone three weeks, and he come back in, and the engine was, like, ticking away. And he's like, "You guys didn't put any oil in my engine." And we're like, "Come on. It's in the drive-through. Like, you know, we had it on camera. You can see the guy pourin'." "Well, there's no oil on dipstick." Sure enough, no oil on dipstick.

[00:46:46] Jeff Compton: We're like... And I remember they looked that car over, that truck, for, like, "Where did the oil go?" Of course you call tech line. They're like, "Um, pull the throttle body off, shine a light down in there and see." And yep, sure enough, oil right up in that intake A. And you're like, "Oh." Mm. "That's what..." And then of course comes back for a cat fault later, right?

[00:47:05] Jeff Compton: But ... 

[00:47:06] Eric Schoenberger: Oh, yeah. '

[00:47:06] Jeff Compton: Cause it was, it burned... But yeah, once you got those, man, they were such a good-paying job. That was the best way to do the tune-up for the cop motor . 

[00:47:15] Eric Schoenberger: Oh, yeah. 

[00:47:16] Jeff Compton: You already had it off. Just do it at the same time, you know? 

[00:47:19] Eric Schoenberger: Yep. But no, like, like, like now, like the Hurricane engine- 

[00:47:24] Jeff Compton: Mm-hmm ... 

[00:47:24] Eric Schoenberger: oh, I've done some phasers.

[00:47:27] Jeff Compton: Yeah. 

[00:47:27] Eric Schoenberger: Um, thermostats are a big issue with them on the straight six. 

[00:47:32] Jeff Compton: Yeah. 

[00:47:33] Eric Schoenberger: They run a little door that moves And it's piggyback to the water pump, so you gotta take the water pump out to do it 

[00:47:41] Jeff Compton: Of course. Of course. 

[00:47:43] Eric Schoenberger: You know, done a bunch of them, and that's one of them. Yeah, I, I lose my ass on th- every one of them, but I'd rather do that than, you know, tear myself up or whatever.

[00:47:54] Jeff Compton: Yeah. 

[00:47:54] Eric Schoenberger: Yeah. S- suck the AC down, so you take the compressor completely out, and then, then you got your air ride tank, 'cause usually they were Wagoneers that had that problem. Yeah. 

[00:48:05] Jeff Compton: Yeah, that's true of the Wagoneer. Yeah. 

[00:48:07] Eric Schoenberger: I mean, the Hurricane runs good, the numbers, I mean, but- 

[00:48:11] Jeff Compton: Mm-hmm ... 

[00:48:11] Eric Schoenberger: it's not as service-friendly as a Hemi.

[00:48:15] Jeff Compton: No, no. And I've talked to more than one diehard Chrysler guy, and he's like, "Why couldn't they just brought the 4-liter back to stick in that thing?" You know? And it's like, well- Yeah ... 'cause it will n- never meet the emissions that, you know, that thing is supposed to be able to do. But, um- Yeah ... when you think about in-lines, like, that was just, like, they, they...

[00:48:34] Jeff Compton: The 2.5 and the 4-liter were the best in-line I ever saw. Maybe you could argue the old Slant-6 was better, but nah, I would say no. That 4-liter. The 2.5 always ran rough, the in-line, a little, 'cause, I mean- Yeah ... never designed to be that way. But that, like, that 4-liter was just so bulletproof. It was so simple. So easy.

[00:48:55] Eric Schoenberger: Oh, yeah, they run forever. They... This- The 3-liter, I mean, they're smooth, they sound refined, but you're just asking an awful lot- 

[00:49:05] Jeff Compton: Yeah ... 

[00:49:05] Eric Schoenberger: out of a small, like the 2-liter H- uh, Evo engine now. 

[00:49:10] Jeff Compton: Yeah. 

[00:49:11] Eric Schoenberger: Um, yeah, they run great, but you gotta run the right oil, and that's usually what happens with them, and they'll start scoring- Yeah

[00:49:18] Eric Schoenberger: cylinder walls and get a cold engine noise. 

[00:49:21] Jeff Compton: Mm-hmm. Do you touch any of the hybrid or EV stuff when you were there? 

[00:49:24] Eric Schoenberger: Yes. Yep. Yeah. I've done some battery packs. 

[00:49:27] Jeff Compton: Yeah. 

[00:49:27] Eric Schoenberger: Um, a lot of heaters. Really? Battery heaters. Yep. Yeah- Yeah ... they'll fail. Um- 

[00:49:34] Jeff Compton: I see up here a lot more of the, um, the 4xe Wranglers. Yeah. The hybrid.

[00:49:40] Jeff Compton: I'm just like, "Eh, thank God I don't have one of them," because, you know. It'd be cool to get some mileage back. 

[00:49:48] Eric Schoenberger: Yeah, a little bit. 

[00:49:51] Jeff Compton: I don't wanna buy it when it's, when it's broken, you know? I don't wanna fix it when it's broken. 

[00:49:55] Eric Schoenberger: No, I had to do a battery pack on one shortly before I left the dealer, and you take the straps off the d- they tell you take the rear doors out.

[00:50:03] Eric Schoenberger: I just fold them forward. 

[00:50:05] Jeff Compton: Mm-hmm. 

[00:50:05] Eric Schoenberger: And you take a cherry picker and pull 'em out. 

[00:50:08] Jeff Compton: Yeah. 

[00:50:09] Eric Schoenberger: Yeah. 'Cause it's just so heavy. 

[00:50:10] Jeff Compton: Yeah. It would be, eh? For sure. I mean, I like the idea that they put it there instead of putting it on the bottom of the car, where it's a lot more- Oh, yeah ... you know. Um, I think that that's something that maybe we need to start thinking about when we're building these modern EVs and whatnot, is that we maybe think about getting the battery pack up a little bit farther away from the ground.

[00:50:31] Jeff Compton: Um, Sure What It Royalty just did a video On a Camry hybrid that the, the customer had hit something on the road, and it punch- punctured the fuel tank. And how it didn't puncture the battery pack, I don't know, because, like, it, it hit... It, it caused a leak in the transmission. Like, they wrote the car off, 15,000 bucks.

[00:50:52] Jeff Compton: But, like, I've seen it, like, you know, I've talked about that, uh, Hyundai Iconic that was, made the headlines here. Uh, customer drove over something, caused a strike to the battery. They went to the dealer, they checked it, they condemned the car, wr- wrote it off 'cause the battery pack was gonna cost more than the car was worth.

[00:51:10] Eric Schoenberger: Yeah. 

[00:51:10] Jeff Compton: Um, just like, you know, the, the, that's not, that's not progress, so. 

[00:51:16] Eric Schoenberger: No, and then nobody's really rebuilding those batteries, so they're just stacking up somewhere. 

[00:51:21] Jeff Compton: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Have you seen the, the BYD cars that we talk about, the- 

[00:51:25] Eric Schoenberger: Uh, no. I, I've read about them, but that's about it. 

[00:51:30] Jeff Compton: Pretty impressive little car.

[00:51:31] Jeff Compton: Yeah. I think, uh- 

[00:51:33] Eric Schoenberger: You can buy them up there, can't you? 

[00:51:35] Jeff Compton: Well- 

[00:51:36] Eric Schoenberger: Or not yet? 

[00:51:37] Jeff Compton: I think we're gonna be, like, the first out of the gate with them, I have a feeling, 'cause of some of the backroom deals that my government has done up here. They've kind of made it very easy for them to get here. Now, I don't know if they're gonna he- be here by '27, but probably by '28 they're gonna be here.

[00:51:56] Jeff Compton: Um, and then, you know, I've had people talk that, like, I had a guest on, he'd been to Vietnam on a trip and drove them, and he says, like, "You, you're just amazed at how c- how that car performs for the price of it." Now, that being said, you know, without the product support, you know, and it's such a cheap car, uh, I'm scared in six, seven years we're gonna have a bunch of them sitting around in our, you know, land- waste yards, landfills, whatever you wanna call them.

[00:52:25] Eric Schoenberger: Yeah. 

[00:52:25] Jeff Compton: With batteries that nobody wants, you know, um, are not fixing, and then that's... Does it really serve- It's hazardous 

[00:52:33] Eric Schoenberger: waste. 

[00:52:34] Jeff Compton: Yeah. Does it really serve our purpose? Um, what did... Like, kind of share with me when you left the dealer, what did they, what did they say? What did they think? Did they care at all?

[00:52:46] Jeff Compton: Did they say anything? Nope. Nothing. 

[00:52:48] Eric Schoenberger: I s- I said, "I'm, I'm l- this, today's my last day," and... 'Cause I didn't give them any notice 'cause I wanted to g- keep my benefits intact, 'cause I knew they'd- Uh-huh ... kick them out from under me. 

[00:52:58] Jeff Compton: Right. 

[00:52:58] Eric Schoenberger: And, uh, the service manager goes, "Oh, okay." And then, uh, that was a Friday night.

[00:53:08] Eric Schoenberger: So then Saturday morning I came in to get my toolbox and all that, and he only wanted to go through, like, four drawers. Usually I don't allow that 'cause legally they can't, but- Right ... just to get out of there, he goes, "I don't know what I'm looking for." And I said, "All right." And he goes, "You got anything of the shop's?"

[00:53:27] Eric Schoenberger: I said, "Oh yeah, I got two rolls of toilet paper."

[00:53:34] Jeff Compton: Got some coffee cups. Yeah, uh, there's a few 

[00:53:36] Eric Schoenberger: Well, my locker, I keep an extra roll of toilet paper and paper towels 'cause in the bath they forget to restock. Mm-hmm. Well, I get sales and raid my locker. And so I got to the point I put it in my tool cart

[00:53:52] Eric Schoenberger: But no, they, he didn't care. And then that Saturday, the general manager crossed paths with me in the parking lot, and he really just, he just said, "Well, you know, we'll see you later." I mean, no, "What can we do," you know, "to keep you?" Yeah. "What's the problem?" 

[00:54:10] Jeff Compton: Yeah. 

[00:54:10] Eric Schoenberger: Yep. 

[00:54:12] Jeff Compton: Now, and so how long had you been at that dealer?

[00:54:15] Eric Schoenberger: Four years. 

[00:54:16] Jeff Compton: Four years, yeah. 

[00:54:17] Eric Schoenberger: Yeah. I was at two, two Chrysler dealers for 10 years apiece, and then I was at one for a year and a half just 'cause it went out of business. 

[00:54:28] Jeff Compton: Mm-hmm. 

[00:54:29] Eric Schoenberger: And then, uh, at another one for a couple years. So- 'Cause the one that I was at for 10 got bought out, and I- Yeah ... stuck around for two years.

[00:54:39] Jeff Compton: Now, Eric, when they, you know, when you kind of... We joke, but it's kind of sad at the same time, when, when they don't do anything or say much when they know you're leaving, do you think it's because, like, they've just kind of accepted that they can't do anything about making it better? Or do you think it's like they're still holding out, you know, that they don't want to?

[00:55:01] Eric Schoenberger: I think it's a matter they don't know what to do. Um, the service manager knows he's only limited by the general manager, and the general manager, he just, he don't know what to do about it. 

[00:55:13] Jeff Compton: Yeah. 

[00:55:14] Eric Schoenberger: He just sees it as you're being ungrateful for not wanting to work for him anymore. And it's, that's not it. I mean, it's just a matter of, you know, "Hey," you know, and I've told him, you know...

[00:55:25] Eric Schoenberger: I've had meetings with him about, you know, what's going on in that shop, and- 

[00:55:30] Jeff Compton: Mm-hmm ... 

[00:55:30] Eric Schoenberger: he just, then he flip- then he spins it on me. 

[00:55:34] Jeff Compton: Yeah. "

[00:55:34] Eric Schoenberger: Well," like, like hours. "Well, you need to upsell, upsell, upsell." Well, that works to an extent, but you're gonna scare customers off or make them mad. 

[00:55:46] Jeff Compton: Yeah. And again, you know, like, I see all these guys, the content creators and stuff, and even, you know, the non-content creators that are talking about the DWI process and all that and how it's such a powerful tool, and it is.

[00:55:58] Jeff Compton: But, like, I'll... You and I know you can do a one hell of a DWI at the, at the dealer, like, absolutely stellar, and they then have an estimate, you know, if we follow that 300% rule in this video, and, and it goes to a shop with a door rate that's $20 less and, say, way cheaper parts, and all that work gets done there.

[00:56:20] Jeff Compton: Yeah. You know what I mean? And that's... So for me, like, we knew. You started to know by looking at the history, 'cause I'm sure you're like me. You look at the history on almost most of the cars you're working on, and you start to see it right in their, I call it a profile, that, like, all the wrecks went somewhere else.

[00:56:39] Jeff Compton: It came in with, you know, brakes on it from Midas and all that jazz, and they were shopping around for trying to save 100 bucks or 50 bucks back in the day. And I get it and I understand it, but, like- When all of a sudden we keep saying now, you know, all you dealer techs have gotta do this DVI when we used to just do an MPI and used to pencil whip it 'cause you were looking at your history to see what was due and what was done.

[00:57:04] Jeff Compton: We're, we're, in a lot of ways all we're doing is wasting people's time and we're prepping these amazing estimates that are going to our competition and getting the work done. 

[00:57:12] Eric Schoenberger: Y- yeah 

[00:57:13] Jeff Compton: You know? Because- 

[00:57:15] Eric Schoenberger: And then I also had problems with service advisors dropping the ball and not sending it onward either.

[00:57:20] Eric Schoenberger: Yeah. That was kind of- 

[00:57:22] Jeff Compton: Yeah ... 

[00:57:23] Eric Schoenberger: just as much of a problem, um, 'cause you go up there, "Hey, did you run it through?" "Oh, I forgot." Or they don't wanna do it anyways and we'll try. 

[00:57:36] Jeff Compton: Yeah, like how do they not know that like, and I mean they know, it's not a case that they don't know. But you've heard me s- you know, in some of my past episodes and I talk all the time about like there's so many places that don't hold the advisor to the same level of expectation that they hold the tech.

[00:57:54] Jeff Compton: Like they say to the tech op, "You know, you gotta upsell more, you gotta, you gotta find more hours, you gotta hustle more." But we know there's certain advisors that like are underperforming every month- 

[00:58:06] Eric Schoenberger: Uh-huh ... 

[00:58:07] Jeff Compton: because they don't wanna have, you know, the hard conversations. They don't have the knack for it.

[00:58:14] Jeff Compton: They're not that motivated. And then all of a sudden they're just, they're, they're part of the, they're part of the interior makeup of the dealer after two years because like they've been underperforming for two years and they're still there. And then people are like, "Oh, I can't get rid of them now because they have a client base."

[00:58:31] Jeff Compton: You know? And maybe they get a couple CSI scores that made them look like they were great, which again, if, if you did the repair for free, a lot of people just gave you a great fucking CSI r- you know, review. Yeah. Because they did not pay nothing. Didn't really matter, right? Uh, that's always the part that, that just yanked me around when, with the whole, you know, uh, lack of motivation from advisors is because, um, it's just terrible how some of them could be so mediocre.

[00:59:01] Eric Schoenberger: Yeah. 

[00:59:01] Jeff Compton: And they kept their job- 

[00:59:02] Eric Schoenberger: I got a friend- ... and they 

[00:59:03] Jeff Compton: kept getting the pay. 

[00:59:04] Eric Schoenberger: He's a really good one. Um, he looks at it as when he calls 'em up, only one of two things will happen. You're either gonna fix it or you're not. There's no bargaining, no- Mm-hmm ... cutting it down. You know? Take it or leave it. And he sell- Yeah

[00:59:20] Eric Schoenberger: he sold a lot of service work. Just don't take it personal. Well, 

[00:59:26] Jeff Compton: yeah, I think that's a big part of it, right? And this is not just as a dealer, this is any advisor period. Don't take it personal, and realize that like if you set the precedence by saying, "Oh, I can find $200 to remove from the bill this time," they're gonna want at least 200 next time.

[00:59:41] Jeff Compton: Oh, yeah. And every time after that, right? Whereas if you start out and it's just like, "Nope, unfortunately Mrs. Smith, we can't do that. You know, I'm already maxed out at what I can... I found you all the overlap, like I..." All that. You know? I got... You, you, you're, you're, you're just opening up a can of worms by allowing them to, to drive the ship because they're, they're just going to continue to expect that.

[01:00:05] Jeff Compton: And then when you don't that one time and finally you gotta knuckle down and say no, that's when they'll destroy you on the survey. Oh, yeah. Right there. You know? It's because you always used to be able to give it to me and now you can't It's a, it's a, it's a, it's just a, it's, it's going down the wrong way.

[01:00:23] Jeff Compton: And I, I, I joke about this, but I had an advisor who, like, he was not that motivated to sell because his alimony check to his ex-wife would just go up exponentially if he started actually really pumping work out. And we're sitting here going like, "Uh, dude, that's a you problem. That ain't a me problem." Yeah.

[01:00:39] Jeff Compton: Like, that's- Don't take 

[01:00:40] Eric Schoenberger: it out on 

[01:00:40] Jeff Compton: us ... you know. Yeah. Give your ticket then to the other advisor, right? Like, that's who I wanna handle it because he was a shark. He just like, psh, you know. I, uh, that kind of stuff and to b- to be allowed to stay when they're that is their attitude, I just never understood that.

[01:00:58] Jeff Compton: That was daft to me that they were, you know, could, could perform like that. Yeah. Not that he wasn't the guy, I'm not saying that. It's just the directive was not there. 

[01:01:08] Eric Schoenberger: Well, and then, like- Um- ... like where I came from, the last place, um, you get a good one while that other one's bad habits that they'll either quit or they just become the same person, and then, then you got two, you know, horrible advisors to deal with.

[01:01:26] Eric Schoenberger: Mm-hmm. Yeah. 'Cause that was starting to happen- Well- ... when I was leaving, was they had a really good one out of the gate and, yeah, her attitude just went downward. It was like, "Oh, no." Now, 

[01:01:38] Jeff Compton: who trained, who trained the advisors when they would come on, like the senior advisor? 

[01:01:41] Eric Schoenberger: Uh, the service manager would train a little bit, and then he'd let them- Okay

[01:01:46] Eric Schoenberger: kind of fend for themselves 

[01:01:49] Jeff Compton: Yeah. How did you think that worked? 

[01:01:53] Eric Schoenberger: Badly.

[01:01:57] Jeff Compton: Yeah. Yeah. I, um, I saw them take kids that we'd hired and worked in the quick lube, so the drive up oil change bay, and if they were, like, s- polite and smiled at the customer, they'd make them a service writer in a very short... And I'm not talking, like, after a year, I'm talking, like, after three months. And I'm like, "Are you serious right now?"

[01:02:19] Jeff Compton: Like, that, that, that's not the right thing to do because last week they're changing oil and this week they're, they're selling $4,000 transmission overhauls. Like, it- it's, it... How do, how do they learn to do that? 

[01:02:31] Eric Schoenberger: Yeah. 

[01:02:32] Jeff Compton: Oh, sales is sales. Like, no. Selling a $10 air filter isn't the same as selling a $4,000 transmission.

[01:02:39] Jeff Compton: It's, doesn't work like that. You know? I, 

[01:02:41] Eric Schoenberger: I still think the less they know about... They need to know a little bit about cars, but not much. Mm-hmm. 'Cause then you get the brainiac that wants to tell you what he thinks, and it's like, "No, why are they here?" 

[01:02:54] Jeff Compton: Yeah. Yeah. And that's... Did you see a lot of service writers that were...

[01:03:01] Jeff Compton: How do I say that? Maybe wash outs as techs? 

[01:03:05] Eric Schoenberger: Uh- Did you get a couple of them? A few. Not very many. 

[01:03:08] Jeff Compton: Yeah. 

[01:03:08] Eric Schoenberger: I was an advisor- Yeah ... for four months at the dealer I was with dad. That's how I got into the company. They had no tech opening. Okay. And the owner goes, "Well, you might like it better than wrenching." And he gave me a six-month trial run.

[01:03:23] Eric Schoenberger: I only made it four months, and he's seen the writing on the wall and put me on the line. Yeah. But, oh, it was okay. We're still doing handwritten tickets, but I just didn't like it. Um, the senior advisor I learned a lot from. He could take... He could get his butt chewed something fierce and let it roll off.

[01:03:43] Eric Schoenberger: He did it for so long, he could do it and it just- Yeah ... wasn't me. And the, the other owner knew that and, and I became a line tech. 

[01:03:53] Jeff Compton: Do you think that ability to let it just kind of roll off your back, do you think that's lost now as a, do I say skill? But I, I'm, I'm not so sure necessarily, Eric, the younger generation has got that ability.

[01:04:05] Eric Schoenberger: I don't think so either. I mean, 'cause- I, uh, I'm not gonna knock them, but a lot of them wanna feel special and don't want- Mm-hmm ... you know, they think, you know, if so- if a customer's getting mad at them, you know, it's personal, and it's not. Like we got- Yeah ... like there was a young one there at the last place I was at.

[01:04:25] Eric Schoenberger: Um, I had an old farmer. Well, he was in his... He's in his mid-60s, and it would really tear him up. He never nailed him on a survey, but when he'd walk in the door, the guy'd go, "Hey, dude, what's up?" Instead of, you know, "Bernie, how you doing today?" Or, "Sir, how are you?" Yeah. And he'd come in the shop, talk to me and that friend of mine, 'cause he liked...

[01:04:48] Eric Schoenberger: He said, "You three techs," there's another older one back there. He goes, "That's the only reason why I come in here. I can't stand the rest of up there." And- ... I said, "Yeah." Yeah. But no formal- Well, 

[01:05:02] Jeff Compton: yeah ... 

[01:05:02] Eric Schoenberger: you know. 

[01:05:04] Jeff Compton: Mm-hmm. 

[01:05:05] Eric Schoenberger: He said, "I don't need to be- Yeah ... you know, have my butt kissed," but, you know, just a little formal.

[01:05:12] Jeff Compton: Yeah. "Hey, dude, what's up?" Is probably not how you greet your customer. Yeah. Out, maybe at the bar, if you're a bartender, I could see that working. 

[01:05:21] Eric Schoenberger: Yeah, but in a dealership or even just in a, a repair shop, you know, you really don't wanna do that. 

[01:05:28] Jeff Compton: No. Um, what, uh, what other kind of qualities do you think make a good advisor?

[01:05:36] Eric Schoenberger: Oh, be able to multitask. 

[01:05:41] Jeff Compton: Mm-hmm. 

[01:05:42] Eric Schoenberger: Um, that was one thing we kind of ran into was they w- we felt they'd take on enough work that they could handle, and it would hurt the shop- Yeah ... 'cause we weren't, you know, we'd run out of work. Um- Yeah ... they could only take on what they would. Yeah, multitask and just a good personality, a little bit of knowledge about cars.

[01:06:02] Eric Schoenberger: Just, just a little. You don't need to be an expert on it. 

[01:06:07] Jeff Compton: Yeah, 'cause y- you know, I had... Well, what, I had an advisor that she told the customer that the coolant flush wasn't all that important because it doesn't really move that far through the car. However she determined that to be, I don't know. I think she was comparing it to, I don't know, she thought, like, the engine oil was way more important, which you could make the argument, I think it probably would be.

[01:06:33] Jeff Compton: But, like, uh, just how that got in her head that she was going to say something like that, I was just like... I'm standing there, like, trying not to, like, let the cat out of the bag that, like, you just, you know, put a size 14 right in your mouth. Like, you, you can't say stuff like that. I 

[01:06:50] Eric Schoenberger: had a few moments like that- But-

[01:06:51] Eric Schoenberger: with advisors. You just stand there going, "What?"

[01:06:57] Jeff Compton: Yeah, 'cause, and again, you know, it's not about knowing all the answers. It's about if you don't know the answer, like, "Okay, let me go talk to the resident expert-" Yeah ... professional, you know, and, and he'll give me the answer or she will give me the answer. Or ask AI or, or, you know, ask the advisor that's got more seniority next to you if they've ever s- let's just don't, you know.

[01:07:19] Jeff Compton: And we would know a lot of the time, like some advisors, like, and again, because we're all flat rate, all 100% incentivized, you'd have them come out and say to the customer like, "Oh, I know it says in the owner's manual, you know, you should change your brake fluid now," but like, "I've been driving this car I got in the parking lot, and I've never changed it, and I've never had a problem."

[01:07:39] Jeff Compton: Like If you're my advisor and you say that, you'd be kicking your lunch pail down the road in front of you. Yeah. Like, it's, it's about what you do with your car. It's about, especially when the customer is asking the question, "Should I?" The answer is, "Yeah." You know, if the OE recommends it, um, yes. You know, you should always at least do the minimum maintenance is what the OE recommends.

[01:08:05] Jeff Compton: There's worse... You know, we've had that conversation. There's more maintenance that needs to be done sometimes than what even the OE is recommending, but, like, you never talk them out of doing something. It- if you're talking them out of doing a repair because you don't think it's gonna fix the car, then that's a bigger problem, which is probably then who was it dispatched to or that technician, you know, all that kind of stuff.

[01:08:28] Jeff Compton: Yeah. But never tell them that no, they don't need to change a fluid because your own car, um, you've never done that. 

[01:08:35] Eric Schoenberger: Now, if it's a car with a ton of miles on and they want a transmission exchange or service, no. Lea- Mm-hmm ... leave it alone. 

[01:08:43] Jeff Compton: Yep. Yeah. That's what I was gonna ask you, because, like, that's, that's a hot button topic with some pretty big content creators lately, and it's like, you'll see, you know, sure would talk about at Royalty, they, they will do it.

[01:08:57] Jeff Compton: Um, but their process is very involved, more so than what a lot of us would spend, where it's like it's, it's evaluated pretty good before they agree to doing the service because, like... And they, they have that open conversation with the customer, "This is not a guarantee this is gonna fix it, and if it still has a shudder after we do the fluid in it, you're not getting your money back.

[01:09:18] Jeff Compton: This is a, a service that should've been done. You know, um, we don't think we necessarily need to replace the torque converter yet, but the fluid is definitely degraded. Um, you know, the torque converter isn't gonna get worse by changing the fluid." Um, but most of us don't have that conversation enough, and then we get a customer comes in and they just want a transmission tune, and you've never seen them before, and you never ask why, and you dump the tranny fluid out of it, and you change the filter, and then you send it down the road and they're back a month later with it, like, missing gears.

[01:09:51] Jeff Compton: And you're like, "What happened? I can't believe it." And it's like, "Well, did you, did you know this was happening beforehand?" Customer's gonna say never. 

[01:10:01] Eric Schoenberger: Yeah. 

[01:10:01] Jeff Compton: Right? But people don't just come in and ask for a transmission service unless there's something wrong. And, you know, so then you go down that road of, like, did we cause it?

[01:10:11] Jeff Compton: No, you didn't cause it. The customer caused it by not doing the service in time. But how do you navigate that? Well, I guess maybe you take whatever... You know, and look at, look at what a Trans Tune costs now in a Chevro- in a Silverado. It's like 1,000 bucks up here, right? You buy that much fluid, that Mobile 1 fluid for it, you're, you're 

[01:10:31] Eric Schoenberger: $1,000, you know?

[01:10:32] Eric Schoenberger: Chrysler eight-speed, you get, you, to get the filter on some of them, you gotta buy a pan The plastic ones Yes And then that fluid isn't cheap 

[01:10:41] Jeff Compton: Yep. Yeah, so when people, you're trying to sell, you know, what do you think about flushing versus doing it if it's got a serviceable filter? 'Cause you'll see 

[01:10:50] Eric Schoenberger: that- I believe in just doing the serviceable filter 'cause I had an eight-speed I did a flush on, they told me transmission had never been touched, 100,000, and the valve body- 

[01:11:00] Jeff Compton: Mm-hmm

[01:11:01] Eric Schoenberger: goofed up on it about a few weeks later. Yeah. And the service manager got the customer to pay for it and not have a problem with it, but she just wanted to get rid of the truck and- Yeah ... um, I put a valve body in. She kept it for another couple years. But- Mm-hmm ... yeah, that, and I told them, I said, "That's why I don't want..."

[01:11:19] Eric Schoenberger: I'm the only one that did the exchanges in the Chrysler shop there 'cause the other guys wouldn't. And I'm like, "I don't agree with it, but, you know, it, it's a paycheck at that point." And, but I would ask- Yeah ... questions before I would just, you know, see the RO- Mm-hmm ... and go ahead and do it because- 

[01:11:37] Jeff Compton: Yeah. You have to And then I remember way back when a guy talking about how, um, Kirk Robinson up here in Ontario, he talks about how the way they had addressed it in his shop was if it's got a serviceable filter, they're both servicing the filter and doing the flush.

[01:11:55] Jeff Compton: And he would break it down as is like, "The first thing we do is we drop the pan off, remove that filter, clean that magnet so we're not pushing that material through, and then we flush it." Well, it was an expensive service way back then, but he says like, "We almost have no issues after the fact." Yeah. 'Cause that's the whole argument, right?

[01:12:11] Jeff Compton: If you go and flush that, are you gonna push that metal and that dirt- 

[01:12:14] Eric Schoenberger: Yeah, and all the hubs- ... 

[01:12:15] Jeff Compton: to spot ... 

[01:12:16] Eric Schoenberger: and clutch packs and everything else. Yep. 

[01:12:20] Jeff Compton: Yeah. But again, we're into look at what were the price of these, you know, transmission. People still come in thinking a transmission exchange is 200 bucks, you know?

[01:12:28] Jeff Compton: And some of the quick lubes are probably still doing them for 300 bucks, you know? And it's like- With that 

[01:12:33] Eric Schoenberger: fits all fluid in it, and that causes problems. 

[01:12:37] Jeff Compton: Isn't that the best? I used to... Oh, I had an advisor, again, my favorite advisor. He, he'd call me at least once a week up to the front to do a relearn on a Caravan because it had been at one of the dump and pumps, and they, and they did a transmission flush, and now the thing is bump shifting and everything else.

[01:12:54] Jeff Compton: Oh, yeah. And you had to do your transmission relearn. And of course, you know how that goes. You can do it in like, what? Four minutes in the drive-thru, right? Yeah. It's hot, and they'd sit there and watch, and he never charged them. And I'm like, "You know, they would stop going there if you'd start charging them for this."

[01:13:07] Jeff Compton: Yep. Because, you know, they, whatever they saved by having them do it versus us, they would've lost that now by paying us to do the relearn. Yeah. And, um, you know, 'cause the quick lube place doesn't have the faculty to, to do the relearn. He's like, "Yeah, but, uh," like, "They just went there and got taken advantage of.

[01:13:27] Jeff Compton: Like, it's not, and it's not their fault." And I'm like, "Okay, so you have a customer that's already showing you that they're not even gonna come here for an oil change, and then they don't even have the trust in you to call you up and say, 'Hey, they're trying to sell me this. Should I do it here?' Now, all of a sudden we're supposed to have sympathy for them that like they, you know, messed up their van and now we have to fix it?

[01:13:48] Jeff Compton: No, we don't have to feel sorry for them." Yeah. "They've shown you that they're not loyal. Now just keep it as business and fix the damn car." Right. You know? But this emotional... I was talking to a good friend of mine. She's like, 'cause we you know, emotional wallet, right? We talk about that all the time. She's like, "I don't have an emotional wallet.

[01:14:07] Jeff Compton: I have an emotional suitcase." And I'm like, "Well, then that's gonna be your downfall, sister," because, you know... Lindsay, if you're listening, stop that shit. Like just let it go. They're, um, you know, when you do the job properly and, and charge for it, they're not gonna be upset about the price. If they are, they were never gonna be, they were never gonna be right with it regardless.

[01:14:27] Jeff Compton: Doesn't matter. Yeah, it's a customer you don't 

[01:14:28] Eric Schoenberger: want. 

[01:14:30] Jeff Compton: The price isn't gonna matter, is it, Eric? Yeah. It could be 100 bucks, people would still wonder if they could get it for 85, 

[01:14:35] Eric Schoenberger: you 

[01:14:35] Jeff Compton: know? 

[01:14:35] Eric Schoenberger: Yeah. 

[01:14:38] Jeff Compton: Um, so when you left the dealer, were you scared about making that change to going to, you know, a, a general- 

[01:14:48] Eric Schoenberger: Yeah ... 

[01:14:48] Jeff Compton: you know, call it a shop?

[01:14:49] Eric Schoenberger: Yeah, I was. Um, but I got to thinking, I have been doing after-market training for the past three or four years in addition to- Mm-hmm ... the dealer training has went downhill. Okay. And seeing the support online with, like, you and, you know, Lucas. Like, I talked to him at Vision, he kinda gave me a pep talk. Right on.

[01:15:17] Eric Schoenberger: All the support out there for the independent world that used to not be there, I- Mm-hmm ... that's what kinda helped push me. And, and I, you know, kinda like, I've always worked on other stuff here and there, and- Right ... the variety, and that's what kinda helped me make the decision. Plus, I wouldn't be flat rate anymore.

[01:15:41] Eric Schoenberger: Um- Yeah ... you know, just kinda make a more comfortable living. And- 

[01:15:46] Jeff Compton: Mm-hmm ... 

[01:15:47] Eric Schoenberger: that friend of mine I worked with, he set me up with the shop owner, 'cause I never knew the guy before. Right. And he was a dealer tech for 30 years before he went to independent, so he understood. Yeah. And yeah, I... And I, like I said, told him, I said, "If I don't do it, I never will."

[01:16:08] Eric Schoenberger: And yeah, it- it's scary. Um, it's getting better, kinda. 

[01:16:13] Jeff Compton: Mm-hmm. 

[01:16:15] Eric Schoenberger: Like Lucas said, the theory's all the same, just... 'Cause I was trying to master- Yeah ... it like the dealer world, and you can't do that. 

[01:16:26] Jeff Compton: No, you can't. You have to rely... That's the thing, like, it, it sounds counterintuitive, but, like, when I walked into the dealer, I had to rely on service information a whole lot more.

[01:16:35] Jeff Compton: A whole lot. Because, uh, y- you, same as me, you know how to get them apart without reading the service information- Uh-huh ... right? Like, you know how. And your visual and your repetition and your pattern failure and your tech line helps you get through to kinda know where the, the, the trends and the weak points are, but man, when you start working on everything and anything, you're...

[01:16:55] Jeff Compton: I have my head glued to that thing all the time, you know? It's, uh, we don't have Identifix where I work, but I mean, at the previous, like, we used it nonstop. It was constant. Not to give you the bullet, but to know, like, I keep saying, it isn't about getting a bullet, it's about knowing- Things 

[01:17:11] Eric Schoenberger: to test ... 

[01:17:12] Jeff Compton: if there's a real...

[01:17:13] Jeff Compton: Yeah, if there's a real common thing, don't sit there and go, "Ah, it's not gonna be that." Like, no, you better start with trying to prove- Yep ... that it's not. 

[01:17:21] Eric Schoenberger: Um- 

[01:17:22] Jeff Compton: Because otherwise- 

[01:17:23] Eric Schoenberger: Yeah, that's it ... you just 

[01:17:24] Jeff Compton: waste a bunch. 

[01:17:25] Eric Schoenberger: And then I felt bad for a little while that I would spend more time at the computer reading how to diagnose it and tear it apart.

[01:17:35] Eric Schoenberger: Right. And then, like, I had a Cadillac, I think I spent half an hour at the computer and then five minutes on the car, figured it out, replaced the part.

[01:17:46] Eric Schoenberger: You know, and it, I, it's, it's go- it's slowly, it's getting better about that. It's just, yeah, you, you, you know, that dealer mindset of, you know, you- Sure, yeah ... you wanna know it, master it, and be done. Yep. 

[01:17:58] Jeff Compton: Yeah. But your boss probably doesn't have a problem with you doing that- 

[01:18:01] Eric Schoenberger: Yeah ... 

[01:18:02] Jeff Compton: does he? Yeah. So- 

[01:18:05] Eric Schoenberger: He- 

[01:18:06] Jeff Compton: Gotta get it in her own head, you know?

[01:18:08] Eric Schoenberger: Yeah, 'cause I'll ex- I'll call... I work in a separate shop. We're four... We have two buildings, they're four blocks apart, but we're connected- Okay ... intercom and all that. But I'll call him up and I'll tell him, "Hey, I tested this and it tested, like, you know, I got this result," and, "All right, go ahead and fix it."

[01:18:28] Eric Schoenberger: You know, he's pretty cool about it. You know, he don't want you to just call him up, "Well, it needs this," and then that, you leave it at that. I'll actually tell him- Yeah ... you know, why, and, and it, it helps him ease his mind. Yep. 

[01:18:43] Jeff Compton: Sure. Yep. 

[01:18:44] Eric Schoenberger: And like- 

[01:18:45] Jeff Compton: Yeah. Is there... Do you guys take in anything, or is there brands that you don't touch?

[01:18:50] Eric Schoenberger: Uh, they basically take on anything. Euro, Asian. 

[01:18:56] Jeff Compton: Mm-hmm. 

[01:18:56] Eric Schoenberger: Um, we got a military deuce and a half outside right now that I'm not working on it. Um, we got a part-timer, comes in, does that. He- 

[01:19:06] Jeff Compton: Yeah. Is that somebody's fun project? That kind of thing? 

[01:19:09] Eric Schoenberger: Yeah, a farm toy. 

[01:19:11] Jeff Compton: Yeah. 

[01:19:12] Eric Schoenberger: Sounds like it. Um, oh, about a month ago, I rebuilt an '84 Chrysler Fifth Avenue.

[01:19:17] Eric Schoenberger: Only had four, 40,000 miles on it. 

[01:19:23] Jeff Compton: And what did it need? 

[01:19:24] Eric Schoenberger: Oh, belts, hoses. Yeah. Um, the HVAC wasn't working right, and I got it to where it blowed cold air, but that, it needs an actuator for the blend air and, oh Adjust the carburetor, um, just- 

[01:19:43] Jeff Compton: Right ... 

[01:19:44] Eric Schoenberger: oh, it had sat for a while, and the guy wanted to s- to dri- I said, um, "Fix the doors."

[01:19:50] Eric Schoenberger: And I told the guy- Yeah ... "Do not turn this into your daily driver." 

[01:19:56] Jeff Compton: I had, I had one, about two years ago at the shop I wo- I worked in, the guy brought one, a Fifth Avenue in, and it was the older, you know, rear wheel drive boat kinda- Mm-hmm ... thing there. And we did some work on it, but I... What were we trying to find?

[01:20:11] Jeff Compton: I can't remember what it was. Something under the hood we were trying to find, and it took forever, and then when we got the part, it wasn't exactly right, but we got it... Oh, it was a window regulator. That was it. Oh, 

[01:20:22] Eric Schoenberger: yeah. 

[01:20:22] Jeff Compton: It's like, you know, we made it work, but I was like, you know, "What is the... Like, why do you want this car, like, to..."

[01:20:31] Jeff Compton: You know, but he'd had it forever, and he, he loved it, and he wanted to drive it around, and I think it was a convertible too, so it was like, that probably was what it made it harder to get parts for. But, like, that old stuff, and he, like, normally we wouldn't allow customer-supplied parts, but he, because of what it was, and, you know, he had friends that, like, were in the Mopar club, right?

[01:20:52] Jeff Compton: And they're telling him where to find these parts, and you know, they've, they're been tested out, and they, somebody else has put the same thing in and it works fine. So we allow, we made the exception to the rule for him, but I can still remember, like, working on this car and thinking, "My God," like I'm so glad I wasn't...

[01:21:11] Jeff Compton: This is Chrysler era before my era because, like, I remember doing, um, a water pump and belts and hoses on one of the front, an old, old like, you know, 318 as we call it, and I still never forgotten how many stupid belts and spacers and- Brackets ... bolt, different, yeah, brackets. Like, it was, I was early in my career and I was an apprentice.

[01:21:33] Jeff Compton: I'm like, "This is the stupidest- 

[01:21:35] Eric Schoenberger: Yep ... 

[01:21:35] Jeff Compton: engineered piece of junk I've ever seen in my life." There was an air pump, there was a power steering pump, there was an alternator, there was an AC compressor, all on different belts, different spacers, different brackets. I'm like, "This is stupid." 

[01:21:47] Eric Schoenberger: Oh, yeah. Um, but- Putting belts on it, I was like, "Wow, I don't miss this."

[01:21:51] Jeff Compton: Yeah. Thank God a serpentine belt came and fixed so many issues. I, they were cool cars- Oh, yeah ... but man, they were just like, nah, you know? I, I just, no. And the, and the weird, when they would talk to you, the Chryslers- Yep ... when they would talk to you, that was a trip. And the, I can remember the early Grand Cherokees, when they would tell you that the light bulb was out- Uh-huh

[01:22:14] Jeff Compton: but then a bulb really wasn't out, you know? That would drive people nuts, and it's like- 

[01:22:18] Eric Schoenberger: Yeah ... 

[01:22:19] Jeff Compton: you know. 

[01:22:19] Eric Schoenberger: The- 

[01:22:20] Jeff Compton: We joke about it now, but- Yeah ... 

[01:22:21] Eric Schoenberger: yeah. Working on the old stuff like that now, it's just, it's frustrating trying to find the parts And, you know- Yeah. Yeah ... be careful 'cause everything's so brittle. You know?

[01:22:32] Eric Schoenberger: Yes. 'Cause I'd tear a dash apart a little bit and yeah, it just- Yeah ... you're just... It's not much of a money maker, but it, it's kind of fun, but at the same time I'd rather work on later model stuff. But- 

[01:22:45] Jeff Compton: Well, you're getting into that, you know, where now you're doing an enthusiast's- Yeah ... car or into the rest- you're dipping your toe in the restoration realm versus just the regular everyday, you know, in and out type of routine, right?

[01:23:00] Jeff Compton: Of what we're actually supposed to be doing in this industry. And, you know, I hate to tell anybody, but the reality is, is like a lot of these stuff, what their expectations are really don't line up with what it actually takes now to do it. Like you said, to do some of these jobs without breaking the plastic or, you know...

[01:23:21] Jeff Compton: Yeah. So you take out the, you know, heater core maybe is a good example 'cause they come out a lot easier in the old stuff than they do in the new stuff. But you go in there and it's like, "Oh, wait a minute. It doesn't fit." 

[01:23:31] Eric Schoenberger: Yep. 

[01:23:32] Jeff Compton: Now I got this car half apart, right? What do I do? Well, you drive it outside and it sits there at the end of the lot for, you know, two weeks until we try something that does fit.

[01:23:41] Jeff Compton: But I just like- Or 

[01:23:42] Eric Schoenberger: I cringe at a Dodge truck when they want one done and the dash, you look at it wrong, it, it'll crumble on you. 

[01:23:49] Jeff Compton: Yeah. And yeah, like, right? Because we all know the cheat for that, but it's still the cheat is like, you know, you're pulling the dash ahead. You're not doing it the way you used to, but you still, you're taking a lot of that plastic apart- Yeah

[01:24:01] Jeff Compton: and it's like you breathe on it wrong and it's cracking. Uh-huh. Like you're, you just... Chevrolet's the same way though. It doesn't really matter. I mean, any of this junk now when it's 10 years old is, is brittle- Yeah ... and fragile Did you do a bunch of dash work? Oh, 

[01:24:15] Eric Schoenberger: yes. I did a lot of evaporator cores- Nice

[01:24:17] Eric Schoenberger: heater cores, actuators. 

[01:24:20] Jeff Compton: Oh. Yeah, I did, I did, I did actuators, I did a couple cores. I didn't have to do a ton of dash work. I, I managed to... I was out before the, so when all the casting sand was winding up in the heater cores. 

[01:24:33] Eric Schoenberger: Yeah, 200s- 

[01:24:34] Jeff Compton: Remember 

[01:24:34] Eric Schoenberger: that? ... Avengers. I did a ton of them where you put radiator, heater core, oil cooler if it was a 36.

[01:24:41] Eric Schoenberger: Yeah. Flush her out. 

[01:24:43] Jeff Compton: I rem- yeah, and I remember I didn't understand, the guys were like, "Oh, I love doing those heater cores." I'm like, "Why?" And then you, you figure out the cheat code that they were doing, which is they were not, they were un-crimping the pipes out of the core and just sliding the core on, right?

[01:24:57] Eric Schoenberger: Yep. 

[01:24:57] Jeff Compton: Leaving the pipes in there. And I was amazed that so many of them didn't leak. I think probably a lot of them did leak, but, you know, we didn't see it. And I remember we had a Caravan when I was at Nissan, and they sold it, and of course it plugged up, and, uh, they put three cores in it, and it kept plugging.

[01:25:16] Jeff Compton: And finally they changed the engine in it, and I was like, "What are you putting in for an engine?" "Oh, a used one." I'm like, "Um, you think that's gonna fix the problem?" 

[01:25:25] Eric Schoenberger: Yeah. 

[01:25:26] Jeff Compton: Um, but it was, it was ridiculous. He got down to where he was doing them pretty fast, like he'd do them in two hours. He'd do that core, and he was doing it the same way 'cause somebody at the dealer told him this is the cheat for it.

[01:25:36] Jeff Compton: But, um, like the idea that they bought that car and then put an engine in it instead of just buying it back and auctioning it, I was like, "This is ridiculous," you know? 

[01:25:46] Eric Schoenberger: Yeah, that's why I'm not a car salesman. I just, I'd want, I would, I got a conscience or I wanna do it a certain way. There's no money in it- Oh

[01:25:55] Eric Schoenberger: the way I wanna do it. 

[01:25:58] Jeff Compton: Well, that, that's it, and you know, I work at a used car lot, so that's a daily struggle to be like Uh, because again, you know, if you, if you rebuilt the car, which is what they're telling the customer it is, and it's not, you know, versus just doing what it is to make it legal to sell and safe and reliable, there's no money.

[01:26:21] Jeff Compton: There's zero money. You don't make any. The margin's so frigging stretched as it is. But like customers will come back and be like, "You know, I bought it nine months ago and the AC's not cold." And you're like, "Yeah." 

[01:26:34] Eric Schoenberger: Yep. "

[01:26:36] Jeff Compton: AC, it worked when we sold it to you, um, but it's not part of the safety." And then they're flipping out, right?

[01:26:43] Jeff Compton: They're like, "Oh my God." And then you start giving them the quote now on what it costs to fix air conditioning now. And they're like, "I, I'm, I'm trading the car in." "Okay." Like you're probably gonna buy something else and then next year it won't have air conditioning working either 'cause it's just, you know, 1234 is the...

[01:27:01] Jeff Compton: It's a joke. Like it won't, it won't stay in the system. 

[01:27:03] Eric Schoenberger: No. And I imagine up there, um, how many rear evaporator cores have you done on a Caravan? And they probably suck up there with all the corrosion. 

[01:27:14] Jeff Compton: So I'll tell you right now, Eric, most of what the guys do is, um- Not Dorman. There's another company, I wanna say it's called CS- CSI, and they specialize in, like, fuel line repair, coolant line repair, AC line repair, and they make a block-off kit.

[01:27:31] Eric Schoenberger: Okay. 

[01:27:32] Jeff Compton: Right? Because... And that was, that was what a lot of them got because it was, it was literally just, like, it was a f- a furl that you would put on, and then you'd f- like, screw... It's like a compression fitting. That's all it is. And it would seal up and block the lines off to the back because, like, how many people bought a Caravan, and 90% of the time, if they've still got it now, nobody's riding in the back of the damn thing anyway.

[01:27:53] Jeff Compton: Right. Right? And then it, so it's like I get it, the few times you put the kids in there and the AC's cold in the front but not in the back, they're gonna whine. But, you know, you're talking a lot of money. I remember, I remember the Caravans when they had that rear heat line that would always rot off on the firewall there-

[01:28:12] Jeff Compton: just underneath. And we would do them so fast it'd make your head spin. They paid great, too. And then, yeah, the rear evaps would start to rot out, the rear lines running to the back would rot out, and guys would just lick their lips 'cause it's like you'd put that rear evap and that line in, and two year...

[01:28:27] Jeff Compton: And you'd tell the customer, "Now, listen, no undercoat this." They wouldn't. Two years later, rotten again. You know, and it's just like, "What do I do now?" Well, now I would probably cap it because, you know, like... You also need rear brakes that are seized on. 

[01:28:42] Eric Schoenberger: Yeah. 

[01:28:42] Jeff Compton: Rear caliper, rot on every Caravan. Um, yeah, it just, we did a lot of them.

[01:28:47] Jeff Compton: I did a lot of them. 

[01:28:48] Eric Schoenberger: Like, I know three, uh, Town & Country, I'd run it through an under car car wash a lot. Keep the- Mm-hmm ... 'cause we don't have a whole lot of problems with road salt here. Uh, take 'em- Yeah ... further north, but yeah, keep the dirt 'cause around here, dirt and grime will kill 'em. 

[01:29:06] Jeff Compton: Yeah. All for us, it... A- and even I say undercoating, you'll...

[01:29:10] Jeff Compton: I've still pulled lots of them apart that have been undercoated, and it, it's still- Yeah ... rotten. It's still swelled. Like, it was such a stupid design in the sense that it was, it was exposed. And again, their AC's another funny thing when you're having customer, you know, conversations is 'cause, like, you can run back there with a sniffer and you know you're gonna find a leak in.

[01:29:29] Jeff Compton: Right. You're gonna find the dye. You're gonna... But it ain't the only leak in the car. Yeah. Not even close, right? And then so you, maybe they do fix it, and they put lines in it, and they put the rear evap in, and then you're like, mm, six months later, you know, it needs a, an evap under the dash. And then, uh, look, you know, we might as well do the whole box while we're here because that's the right way- Yeah

[01:29:52] Jeff Compton: to do a Chrysler because you get a new core, you get the box, the actuator, the blend doors, the whole problematic junk. And people are like, "My God, I spent $6,000 in HVAC on this turd." Yep. 

[01:30:05] Eric Schoenberger: Yeah. 

[01:30:06] Jeff Compton: Yep. You know? So- 

[01:30:07] Eric Schoenberger: Comfort's not cheap.

[01:30:11] Jeff Compton: The only reason I scrapped my, my, my last Cherokee is 'cause I was coming up on summer, and the compressor had seized up the year before, and I'd put a bypass pulley on it when you could still buy them. Uh-huh. And, um, and I wasn't gonna buy a compressor to put on it. You know, it already didn't have floor pans really that were worth a shoot, so it was like, "No, I'm not gonna buy a, a compressor and a receiver dryer for this.

[01:30:35] Jeff Compton: I'm just gonna, you know, drive it to the junkyard." But I mean, it... That was the only reason. That was the only reason I got rid of that Cherokee is 'cause... Otherwise, I'd still be driving it if it had cold air, but I just wasn't gonna, you know- Yeah ... fix the air. Wasn't worth it. 

[01:30:48] Eric Schoenberger: But not like heater cores anymore.

[01:30:50] Eric Schoenberger: The ones I see are '09 to '18 Rams plug up. Well, even the- Mm-hmm ... newest current body style, they're starting to have the same issue too. 

[01:31:00] Jeff Compton: Do you think that's got to do with how they... 'Cause some people show how they run, like Chrysler run the, the, the passages the other way, right? Yeah. Like, they, I think that's got a big part of the reason why they plug up- I do too

[01:31:12] Jeff Compton: is because, you know. And why they don't fix that or somebody in the aftermarket hasn't come up with a way, I don't know. 'Cause like you've seen it, you take them out and they're full of, they're full, again, that casting sand. Yeah. Right? And then it's like, I've watched Eric O., you know, try to fix a couple of them with like, you know, CLR and a, and a pressure blast through the, through the hoses, and he gets some heat back.

[01:31:37] Jeff Compton: Um, but I also know I've had a bunch that, like, you know, my, uh, my four-liter, my Wrangler, or my last Cherokee, it was starting to get like that where, you know, I was flushing it every year, blowing through, and it was getting the heat back. But you knew that it was just, like, there was so much sediment in it that eventually it was gonna be, you know, a summer-only buggy if I kept it up.

[01:31:59] Eric Schoenberger: I had a '93 to claim like that, and the only reason why I did that was it still had R12, and the AC system didn't leak. Mm-hmm. And I'm like, "I'm not putting a heater core in it and lose the R12." 

[01:32:10] Jeff Compton: Yeah. So- Yeah. It was such a b- such a better refrigerant- Oh, yeah ... like, in terms of... And not yet, but progress. 

[01:32:20] Eric Schoenberger: Yeah.

[01:32:22] Jeff Compton: Um, what do you hate to see come into your shop now? Anything? 

[01:32:25] Eric Schoenberger: Oh, nothing really yet. Just, it's a learning curve. Um, I'll, I'll, I'll figure out about anything, really. Um- 

[01:32:35] Jeff Compton: Right 

[01:32:38] Eric Schoenberger: Like yesterday I was helping out a friend of mine back home and worked on an Audi. He goes, "You wanna put a compressor in one?" I'm like, "Yeah, why not?"

[01:32:48] Jeff Compton: Torx 

[01:32:48] Eric Schoenberger: bolts delight.

[01:32:53] Jeff Compton: Yeah, I know. And yeah, I mean, it's, it's an Audi. I mean, it's not a... Some are not terrible and some absolutely suck. It- I think it's just a frame of mind. Um, when you talked about you went to Vision, is that something your whole shop does? 

[01:33:09] Eric Schoenberger: No, just me. 

[01:33:10] Jeff Compton: For your guy- 

[01:33:10] Eric Schoenberger: Unfortunately- Really, eh? ... where I'm at, they don't invest in training.

[01:33:15] Eric Schoenberger: He told me that when I was interviewed, and I kinda just, okay, 'cause I've, you know, I've always kinda trained regardless and, and, you know, get used to some people, you know, why, why waste your time, you know, kinda beat on you. And I thought I can live with this and... No. Yeah. I got a friend that I help out on Saturdays every now and then.

[01:33:37] Eric Schoenberger: And- 

[01:33:37] Jeff Compton: Okay ... 

[01:33:39] Eric Schoenberger: in return for work and some, we went to Vision together and he took care of it. 

[01:33:45] Jeff Compton: Very cool. 

[01:33:46] Eric Schoenberger: Yeah. 

[01:33:46] Jeff Compton: That's kinda nice. 

[01:33:47] Eric Schoenberger: And I went the full four days this year, and it was really nice. Last year I went two days- Mm-hmm ... to get a feel of it and I, like I said, it, it was really cool. I got to meet David Roman and Lucas Underwood.

[01:34:05] Eric Schoenberger: And, uh, Brandon Steckler I had for an instructor. 

[01:34:09] Jeff Compton: He's amazing. Yes, he is. Isn't he? Yeah. He's absolutely... I just saw him a couple weeks ago in Pennsylvania Tools, and I mean, now it's like, you know, we see each other, I give him a hug, you know, he, and he's, he's just a... He's so, how do I say it? He's so professional.

[01:34:28] Jeff Compton: Yes. You know what I mean? Like, he, he, he'll share his opinion, but he does it in a way that doesn't really offend anybody or, you know, s- it, it- it's just the guy's a genius. He's just, that's the only way you can say it. He's a genius, and I, I've enjoyed every class I've ever, uh, taken of his. And what was cool this year is, like, I took a class with Keith Perkins.

[01:34:52] Eric Schoenberger: Yeah, I got to meet 

[01:34:53] Jeff Compton: him. And Brandon... Yeah. Another genius. Yes. Like, the two of them, you can feel the, almost like when the two of them are in the same room, it kind of gets all of a sudden very crowded, 'cause there's just no frigging way that much IQ can be in, in that room together. Uh-huh. Like, they're just the together.

[01:35:09] Jeff Compton: But it was so cool to have him in the class with Keith because, not that he's challenging Keith, but like, he's asking questions and, and you see the gears are turning in these two guys' heads, and you're like, "Man, I'm, I'm..." We're in such an amazing place in the industry right now because, like, if you wanna talk to people like that, you literally just have to like send them, shoot them a message and they'll answer back.

[01:35:30] Jeff Compton: Like, it's incredible. I'm so fortunate that I consider them my friends now. Like, it's amazing because for me, I was just, I was a dealer guy that found them online and was amazed what they were doing, right? Yeah. And it, and it just became... So now 15, 20 years later from when I first started to see them, I'm amazed.

[01:35:54] Jeff Compton: I pinch myself still all the time that I'm sitting there across the table from them drinking a beer, talking about the industry. Like, it just blows my mind, you know? It just, it makes me... I, I, I can't, I have to pinch myself some days 'cause I'm, I'm definitely a duck out of water with those guys. 

[01:36:09] Eric Schoenberger: Yeah. I mean, it, it just was amazing.

[01:36:11] Eric Schoenberger: Yeah, Steckler, just how he teaches and, you know, pick up stuff. And then I can't remember the other instructor I had. He was a shop owner in K- Eric... I can't think of his last- 

[01:36:22] Jeff Compton: Eric Schaaf? 

[01:36:22] Eric Schoenberger: No Can't remember his name Eric, not, um, Ziegler?

[01:36:31] Jeff Compton: Is that it? Is that right, 

[01:36:32] Eric Schoenberger: Eric? Oh, trying to think here. Eric Walker. 

[01:36:39] Jeff Compton: Walker, okay. 

[01:36:39] Eric Schoenberger: Yeah. Yeah, I just pulled that up. Yeah. I li- I, I really enjoyed his classes. I took two of his. Um, oh, Adam Robertson. Took one of his- Yeah ... classes. That, that guy's something else. 

[01:36:56] Jeff Compton: Uh, Richard Falco, you ever taken one of his? Yeah.

[01:36:59] Eric Schoenberger: Jim Wilson, that's another one. I've taken his classes. 

[01:37:03] Jeff Compton: Yeah. 

[01:37:04] Eric Schoenberger: Um- 

[01:37:04] Jeff Compton: Yeah. 

[01:37:06] Eric Schoenberger: But yeah, I, I'm a big believer in continuous education. That's kind of what... 'Cause my friend told this shop owner, you know, "Hey, he..." You know, and then when I met him, he goes, "Yeah, we kind of train as we, you know, learn as we go." And I said, "Well, I'm gonna keep doing my education."

[01:37:23] Eric Schoenberger: Mm-hmm. And he's like, "That's fine." Um- Yeah ... I do lunch and learns every, whenever they come on. Those are really good. Yeah. Adrian Fisher just did one last week 

[01:37:36] Jeff Compton: Yeah. Another brilliant, brilliant, brilliant guy Yeah Like, it just- 

[01:37:39] Eric Schoenberger: Uh, and Peter Coombs He's- That's another good one. 

[01:37:43] Jeff Compton: Yep. Yep. Oh, it, it just, the- we could, we could talk for an hour on just the- 

[01:37:49] Eric Schoenberger: The support's 

[01:37:50] Jeff Compton: amazing 

[01:37:51] Eric Schoenberger: Just...

[01:37:52] Jeff Compton: Mm-hmm. Yeah. And that, and that's what I love about this industry. Like, we, we get all wrapped up sometimes in the negative of it, right? And even I do, because it's so much of what I do is, is people like yourself that are reaching out to me to talk about it, right? And, and you know, you're talking about the good and the bad, and I wish that, like, I had more positive sometimes to say.

[01:38:13] Jeff Compton: Um, but it, you know, we don't, we don't get the problem solved if we don't talk about the problem. But I should really learn to sh- kind of highlight more the people that are, you know, really making the difference in terms of our education. 

[01:38:27] Eric Schoenberger: Yeah. You know? Well, like with you- And 

[01:38:29] Jeff Compton: you- ... 

[01:38:30] Eric Schoenberger: you know, when I got referred to start, you know, listening, I, it made me feel I'm not alo- you know, I always thought I was alone- Yeah

[01:38:36] Eric Schoenberger: and no one hearing others. I mean, you hear about it when you went to dealer classes and stuff, but- Sure ... it's just kind of not the same, you know, 'cause everybody's still out for themselves. 

[01:38:48] Jeff Compton: Yeah. Well, and that's, that's it. Like, it- I, you know, even my coworkers, like I, I wanted to help them and, and make sure that they weren't struggling.

[01:39:01] Jeff Compton: But I mean, it was still very cliquey in the sense that like I go, go back to the four of us that did a lot of the diag and, and, you know, electrical, we'd help one another. But if w- like if we saw another guy struggling sometimes that we didn't really like necessarily agree all the time with how he did things, we didn't rush over to like, you know, throw him a life preserver.

[01:39:20] Jeff Compton: Like we- Let him drown 

[01:39:20] Eric Schoenberger: a little bit ... 

[01:39:21] Jeff Compton: kinda probably split the h- you know, put our foot on his head a little bit for a little while, right? Until you kinda go over there and go, "Okay, what's going on?" Yeah. Or if you, if it came back and it got dispatched to you, that's when the shit got ugly. Yeah. That's when stuff got really bad because now, you know, now you've got people that are angry because the car's back.

[01:39:41] Jeff Compton: Uh-huh. And you know why the car's back, 'cause we dispatched it to the wrong person, and then you can make every excuse in the world why we did that. And, and some of them are valid excuses. Sure they are. Customer didn't wanna wait, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. But- 

[01:39:53] Eric Schoenberger: But you gotta give them the reality of, you know, don't, don't just BS them.

[01:39:58] Jeff Compton: Yeah. Like I, you know, I, I, I say it all the time, don't give me, you know, air conditioning jobs that are super complicated 'cause I'm not your guy for that. Yeah. Um, you know, I, I'm not, I'm not comfortable with the diag side of it. I'm not. I c- can I get it done? Yeah. But I'm slow as hell at it, and I'm meticulous about it, and like I, I never think that even though...

[01:40:20] Jeff Compton: And here's the other thing. I think the very reality is like we do know that like even when we get it together and sealed up, it doesn't stay sealed up. Yeah. So that's always where I think like I d- I missed something. We didn't miss something. It, you know, pressure is pressure. Today it was stayed behind, you know, the seal.

[01:40:41] Jeff Compton: 10 more heat cycles and all of a sudden the seal won't hold it, you know? Yeah, you 

[01:40:44] Eric Schoenberger: got a system that holds under vacuum, but as soon as you put a little pressure on it... Do you do, uh- Yeah, yeah ... nitrogen leak testing? 

[01:40:52] Jeff Compton: Uh, that's kind of the preferred way that a lot of us up here want it done. Now, um, I'll tell you that that's not always the How do I say it?

[01:41:06] Jeff Compton: Customers get really yanked when they have an AC system that's like... 'Cause, so how the mandate works for the government up here, 'cause again, it's government controlled- Mm-hmm ... is that if a system is, like, low, and say you, so you vac the system. You take out their one pound of refrigerant that's in there, it's supposed to be a two pound system, you know, and you throw nitrogen in it, and you find the leak, and you give them the bill.

[01:41:34] Jeff Compton: And they say, "I don't wanna fix it." Technically, I'm not supposed to put refrigerant back in that car because it's a known leaking system. Right. So it's being . Well, you wanna see some customers get angry. You, uh, you know, they get angry when they had a somewhat working system, and now they have a completely empty not working system because you took out their one pound of refrigerant and you put it in the waste tank.

[01:42:01] Jeff Compton: They get pretty pissed. So that's, I'll tell you why a lot of places don't use nitrogen, is because they want to leave whatever's in the system and try to find the leak with that. You and I know that, like, a lot of it, when you're looking at it, it don't, it doesn't work 'cause it's empty. Yeah. So what's the first step?

[01:42:17] Jeff Compton: Well, you hook up, and if there's anything in it, you evacuate it, and then, you know, uh, you put a tracer dye in. This is, I'm not saying this is right or wrong, but this is how most do it. You put tracer dye in, you charge the system, you start looking for a leak. You charge the system with refrigerant. And maybe you find some leaks, maybe you don't.

[01:42:36] Eric Schoenberger: Yeah. 

[01:42:37] Jeff Compton: Right? We all know that there's a lot of evaps that have always been leaking that we don't find, sometimes 'cause they don't wanna find them, and sometimes because until we got to this where we started to actually maybe look for the UV d- dye dripping out of the hose- Yeah ... like the, the vent. Um, or till we got some of the sniffers that get really good at being able to find them way up in the dash.

[01:43:01] Jeff Compton: Uh, we didn't find it, you know? So then the customers drive along, and next year they come back in again, and they get another charge and, you know. So that's why nitrogen isn't really, like, I don't wanna say it's not popular, but it's not... Every shop out there is not making it the way to do it, I guess is what I'm trying to say.

[01:43:21] Eric Schoenberger: No, that friend I helped out, he does it. But where I'm at- 

[01:43:25] Jeff Compton: Yeah ... 

[01:43:25] Eric Schoenberger: we don't. It just, yeah, charge it up and, you know, see where the dye comes out or if you're lucky, see where, you know, you've seen where it's leaking beforehand 

[01:43:36] Jeff Compton: Yeah. And the 1234 is such an expensive refrigerant 

[01:43:40] Eric Schoenberger: now. 

[01:43:42] Jeff Compton: Oh, yeah. It's, it's having to change sometimes, I think, the way that we actually, um, charge dou- troubleshoot.

[01:43:50] Jeff Compton: Like, uh, my friend Josh was talking about, like, a 1234 system to eval at his shop. He's in North Carolina, it's 500 bucks, you know? And I can remember working at a shop two years ago that, like, it was 250 to eval a 1234 system, you know? Uh, so because again, the price of refrigerant's gone up in price. Yep.

[01:44:12] Jeff Compton: Uh, now you look at what 134 costs, and it's starting to creep up from where it was, 'cause again, they're not moving as much of it. And, um, and then, you know, you talk to other people and they're like, "Oh, I retrofitted a bunch of 1234s to 134," and you're like, "Hmm, not really supposed to do that." 

[01:44:28] Eric Schoenberger: No, but at least there's an identifier on the 1234A, 1234 machine.

[01:44:32] Jeff Compton: Yeah Yeah. Which again, though, that identifier, you've seen the conversations there, that, that oxygen sensor that's in there is, is pretty problematic. It don't last. And then guys are buying, you know, an $800 oxygen sensor to put in their two-year-old machine, and they're, they're cranked right up- Yep ... right?

[01:44:50] Jeff Compton: They're, they're irritated. So I see both sides. I mean, like, I'll tell you, if I was in, at my shop right now, we don't have a working air conditioning machine, so we sublet it all out. And I asked a friend of mine, Ben, I'm like, "What do you think about, like, how would I go about this in my shop?" And he's like, "Well," lots of guys that he talks to, they're buying, you know, a standalone pump and a standalone gauge set, and, um, and they're doing 1234 with no identifier.

[01:45:19] Jeff Compton: And, um, you know, they're, they're finding the leaks and sealing the system and putting them back together. And, um, you know, I think that that may be in the name of progress, unfortunately, has made some of these cars become, you know, they go to the junkyard because people don't wanna pay for fixing air conditioning, and that's sad.

[01:45:39] Jeff Compton: Again- Yeah ... that's just like, to me, it's just the same as the EV battery argument, right? It's going to the junkyard because the repair exceeds the value of the vehicle. Mm-hmm. You know? And that's pretty pathetic that what's essentially still a creature comfort, um, you know, means that the car isn't worth repairing.

[01:45:57] Jeff Compton: Uh, I mean, we get-- We're lucky in Canada, we don't... Like, I haven't turned me-- my air conditioning on yet, um, except for this weekend. It's the first time. And, um, so it's May, and I'll probably turn it off probably by September. You know, like we-- it's a, it's a shorter season. You know, all people down in Florida and, you know, uh, Georgia and Alabama and, you know, Vegas, Arizona, they're running it, you know, 12 months of the year, they're running their air conditioning, and it's, uh, it's definitely adding to the cost.

[01:46:28] Jeff Compton: So I don't know. I, I don't like, I don't like some of the progress that's been made and what it's costing our customers, but at the same time, we had a conversation today, um, you see it all the time, and you probably have heard David talk about it, Eric. You know, a lot of us are living beyond-- above our means- Yeah

[01:46:47] Jeff Compton: right? And I think that that's when we haven't necessarily prioritized auto repair. So, you know, I made the... Said to somebody this morning, we've got people walk in wearing $300 sneakers and holding onto a $1,000 iPhone and drinking a $9 cup of coffee from Starbucks, and they want a brake job done for 400 bucks.

[01:47:09] Jeff Compton: Like, their, their priorities are backwards. Yeah. And that's where I think we've got to really start to, if we're gonna fix this industry or survive it or whatever you wanna say, we're gonna have to learn how to start having real tough conversations. Oh, 

[01:47:23] Eric Schoenberger: yeah. 

[01:47:24] Jeff Compton: You know? 

[01:47:25] Eric Schoenberger: Yeah. So- A guy like David, he goes, "Yeah, they'll wait three hours or so for an iPhone and won't fix- Yeah

[01:47:31] Eric Schoenberger: their car." But like car quality, I mean, like I had a talk with a friend of mine I used to work with, dealer. He goes, "A new car today, what one would you buy to last you 10 to 20 years?" They're few and far between. 

[01:47:46] Jeff Compton: I don't, I don't know if anything's made now with even intending to get it to last 20, you know?

[01:47:51] Jeff Compton: Um- I 

[01:47:51] Eric Schoenberger: mean, seven years for parts support on them. 

[01:47:56] Jeff Compton: Yeah. 

[01:47:57] Eric Schoenberger: And they're sticking to that real bad now 

[01:48:01] Jeff Compton: Yeah. Well, look at the ABS modules that you can't get for a Chrysler- Oh, yeah ... right? That's just one ex- You know, um, thousands of those things are parked because the ABS light's on or the module's, like... And, and you can't get them.

[01:48:13] Jeff Compton: And then, you know, some you can make a used one work, other ones you can't. There's workarounds, obviously. Um, that's just nuts to me. Yeah. That... 'Cause I can remember, like, in the early days of Chrysler, those frigging things lasted way longer. Yeah. Like, you didn't, you didn't see them fail nearly as often as you do now.

[01:48:33] Jeff Compton: Not nearly as often. So what did they change that made them fail now? Well, right? We don't necessarily know. Found a cheaper bidder or something. Yeah, exactly. COVID chips all of a sudden are going in. And then, you know, the fact that they can't make a workaround that says, "Okay..." 'Cause you know it can be done.

[01:48:49] Jeff Compton: Right. All it takes is a software thing to say, "Okay, we realize these aren't being supported, but we're gonna go in and do a software tweak so that you can make a used one work." I mean, if they can make an EcoDiesel run without the crank sensor- 

[01:49:01] Eric Schoenberger: Yeah ... 

[01:49:03] Jeff Compton: they can fix a lot of these modules just with programming.

[01:49:06] Jeff Compton: Let's think about that. They took a car, a truck that, like, okay, we can lose the reluctor and the thing will still start and run. 

[01:49:13] Eric Schoenberger: Uh-huh. 

[01:49:14] Jeff Compton: If we can do that, we can certainly go in and with a patch, or like we did with the, when you couldn't get DEF quality sensors. All of a sudden now we re- release software that says it's not gonna derate the truck anymore.

[01:49:27] Jeff Compton: You know? We know that you got a DEF problem, but until we can get you a part, you're gonna be able to drive your truck. It's as simple, and I don't like the fact that they're holding back. But people vote with their wallets, and if they continue to keep buying new cars and then complain about the quality of the new car, what are you really saying?

[01:49:45] Jeff Compton: Like, you know, you gotta draw a line in the sand at some point. Yeah, you got... Yeah. And that's- I mean, 

[01:49:49] Eric Schoenberger: instead of feeding the machine. 

[01:49:52] Jeff Compton: That's right, exactly. I drive a 2015. You know, people would look at that and go, "Well, you're driving a 10-year-old car." 'Cause I'd normally used to always drive, you know, uh, almost 20-year-old cars.

[01:50:04] Jeff Compton: You know, I was driving... Well, four years ago I got rid of my '96 Jeep, so do the math on that. In 2021 I got rid of a '96. 

[01:50:15] Eric Schoenberger: Yeah. 

[01:50:15] Jeff Compton: You know? How old was that? Like, it was almost 20. I'm keeping more stuff closer to 20 years than I'm keeping it to, to 

[01:50:21] Eric Schoenberger: 10. Yeah, that's how I am. So- I used to drive stuff, you know, less than 10 years old, and of course, that was back when stuff was, you know, a lot more solid.

[01:50:29] Eric Schoenberger: You knew it was gonna work. Now it's like- Yeah ... eh, take a gamble 

[01:50:35] Jeff Compton: I can remember buying 10-year-old Shadows for ... I, I joke all the time, I bought one for 250 bucks because somebody told me it needed a head gasket and it needed a distributor. And, like, I sold that car, I drove it for three months, and then I sold it to somebody, and I doubled my money 'cause they needed the tranny out of it.

[01:50:52] Jeff Compton: But I mean, I sold it and safety-ed it. I ... It needed nothing. And it was, it was already 10 years old at that point, and it wasn't all rusted out. You look at stuff now that's 10 years old, and in different climates, it's not worth fixing 'cause it's so rusted. It's like Swiss cheese at that point. Like, the metal's

[01:51:09] Jeff Compton: Yep. And you look at even the, kind of the way the coil springs are breaking now on six and s- five and six-year-old cars, it's ridiculous. Oh, yeah. Like, the, the metal that we're being made, you know, that we're buying from China and, and retooling back into parts is not the same as, as virgin metal. And, um- 

[01:51:28] Eric Schoenberger: Yeah

[01:51:29] Jeff Compton: you know, it just makes everybody angry, and I d- I don't know. That's the part that I struggle with, when people are angry at my industry. Like, you can be angry at the, the OE, but we're not the OE. We didn't build it. We didn't break 

[01:51:42] Eric Schoenberger: it 

[01:51:44] Jeff Compton: Even when you, you know this, when you work in a dealer, you're not the OE Yeah Like you s- you move their product for them, but you have no input hardly at all on how that product's built or marketed or what it costs.

[01:51:56] Jeff Compton: None. You get zero, you know? And, um, that's ... And again, everybody's like, "Well, if all the dealers..." 'Cause I hate that, these dealer mechanics can't do this and dealer mechanics can't do that. Yeah, some are pretty bad, but the reality is, is like nobody, if you're not gonna pay them to do the job properly, is gonna do the job properly.

[01:52:18] Eric Schoenberger: Right. 

[01:52:18] Jeff Compton: Nobody. Like this idea that like, "I'm gonna, I'm gonna do it right even though I'm not getting paid," that's a bunch of BS. You, you're gonna do that maybe for a little while. If you do it your whole career, you're... I feel for you because you just got, you, you, you got taken advantage of. Yeah. You shouldn't do it, you know?

[01:52:39] Jeff Compton: Um, it's like, it's the same as I tell, you know, I d- I don't wanna advocate for, you know, revolt and revolution, but you know, we had lots of conversations back in the day where if they gave us something and the time wasn't, wasn't gonna be enough, we didn't do it, you know? And, uh, it wasn't just like one of us wouldn't do it, we all.

[01:53:03] Jeff Compton: You'd see that worker come back out and they'd try to get ano- and everybody would stand fast and say, "No, not doing it." Yeah, and they 

[01:53:09] Eric Schoenberger: give it to an hourly guy or, you know, or they'd figure something out to help the- 

[01:53:14] Jeff Compton: Yeah 

[01:53:14] Eric Schoenberger: Yep. 

[01:53:15] Jeff Compton: Yeah. And that's where, you know, you've got to, you've gotta learn how to make yourself indispensable because if you're, if you don't have anything to offer, um, your employer and you take that attitude, they're just gonna...

[01:53:32] Jeff Compton: You'll be kicking your lunch pail down the road. Yeah. But if you are, if you've done like you do and, and take the training and, and make yourself, you know, a little more valuable to them, above average, whatever you wanna call it, um, they'll listen at least. Sometimes they maybe even compromise. They don't like to do it, but they will do it.

[01:53:55] Jeff Compton: Um, but if you're not making yourself indispensable, you're just, you're at their mercy, and I don't like to be at anybody's mercy. That's why I don't work flat rate. I don't, I don't wanna be, uh, at somebody else's, you know, mercy to what defines my paycheck. I want my paycheck to be defined by... And everybody goes, "Well, how hard you work defines your paycheck."

[01:54:16] Jeff Compton: No, it doesn't, because we've all seen where people don't market properly, we don't dispatch properly, we don't charge properly, and you're not making the kind of work that you used to make, your hours, your, your pay, whatever you wanna call it. And that's not then me not doing the work. 

[01:54:32] Eric Schoenberger: Yeah. 

[01:54:33] Jeff Compton: Right? That's them not accounting for their shortcomings, their bottlenecks, their inefficiencies.

[01:54:38] Jeff Compton: I 

[01:54:38] Eric Schoenberger: always felt like, you know, we're the only industry the more you know, the less you make It feels like 

[01:54:44] Jeff Compton: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Did you have, when you started to get, before you got out of the dealer, did you find that the young people coming in just wanted to coast? Yep, 

[01:54:53] Eric Schoenberger: pretty much 

[01:54:56] Jeff Compton: Yeah. 

[01:54:56] Eric Schoenberger: They couldn't diagnose- Yeah, it's a hard-

[01:54:58] Eric Schoenberger: I gave it to one of the older guys, and then they just wanna do the grunt work. 

[01:55:03] Jeff Compton: Mm-hmm. Now, when you were there, how did pay work? 'Cause I mean, we all talk about, like, pay works from the standpoint of, like, your hours. But I know for me, like, hours weren't it, because once we all, in Canada, once y'all had your license, every deal I ever worked at y'all got paid the same per, per hour, and then you just had to sell more hours if you wanted to earn more pay.

[01:55:26] Eric Schoenberger: Um, 

[01:55:27] Jeff Compton: the f- Did you guys or- 

[01:55:28] Eric Schoenberger: They, they, it varies on your certifications and your experience. Um, one dealer, two dealers I've ever worked at, we were all the same. Mm-hmm. The first one, um, it was a percentage of the labor rate, and you only got a raise- Right ... when the labor rate went up. The second time- Yeah ... um, we were all masters anyways, and they paid us all the same.

[01:55:53] Eric Schoenberger: But no, the last dealership, it varied based on experience. Yeah. And like, one guy did all the, like, Ram 45, 5500 ProMaster, he got the most, and he can have that. He- 

[01:56:07] Jeff Compton: Mm-hmm. Yeah ... 

[01:56:08] Eric Schoenberger: he had the work area for it and everything. But- 

[01:56:12] Jeff Compton: Yeah ... 

[01:56:13] Eric Schoenberger: and then the younger guys, um, it was an hourly slash how many, how much work you kicked out, a performance bonus.

[01:56:22] Eric Schoenberger: Mm-hmm. Hybrid. Yeah. So they would go after, like, services, like BG stuff, um- Yeah. Sh- E- e-brakes Yeah ... easier stuff to get their performance, uh, bonus. And- 

[01:56:36] Jeff Compton: Yeah. That's how, that's, uh, the dealer I worked at, we all grabbed the low-hanging fruit. That's what you, that's what you're looking for with every, every NPI that you did, you were hoping to, you know, sell the service because the, the thing that they were there for didn't pay worth a damn.

[01:56:51] Jeff Compton: Even if it was, like, a seasonal oil change and tire rotation or brake inspection, it paid you .8. You were o- That was coming to the shop and not to the quick lube up front because they wanted you to find work on it, right? And yeah, you'd find a tie rod that was bad, you'd find control arm bushings that were bad.

[01:57:08] Jeff Compton: But, like, you saw so many guys that, like, they made a career out of never learning how to diagnose a basic electrical system, but they could sell 50 hours a week- Yep ... 'cause they could do all the front end and all the flushes. Like, they were 

[01:57:23] Eric Schoenberger: masters at it, 

[01:57:24] Jeff Compton: you know? I, I have a picture on my Facebook of me at the Nissan dealer, and I'm not, you know...

[01:57:31] Jeff Compton: And I've got three flush machines going at one time. I've got a brake flush, a coolant flush, and a fuel system service going, you know? And, uh, it was a high enough mileage on the car, and the car customer came in requesting, oh, we did it. But I mean, that's not real skill at that point. Like, it's just, you know, it's putting reps in.

[01:57:49] Jeff Compton: It's not the same. Yeah. It's not what- What the customer really needs. They need problem solving, 

[01:57:54] Eric Schoenberger: you know? Oh, yeah. You get a car, you're doing all them services, and you find a wheel that's loose, and you're like- Yeah ... you could have moved that money over to that. 

[01:58:03] Jeff Compton: Mm-hmm. Well, and that's the thing, you see it all the time.

[01:58:07] Jeff Compton: That's the big argument that comes up in a lot of the, the owner groups is the customer comes in for, you know, these pre-sold jobs or they come in wanting this, and you don't do the DVI, you start immediately doing the, you know, services. And then you find out that it's like, "Oh, shoot," like she's here for a transmission flush, a brake flush, and a, you know, a tune-up, and then you're like, "Well, shoot, the left rear tire's bald.

[01:58:33] Jeff Compton: The right rear tire's got braid coming through it, and it needs brakes and a tie rod and alignment all the way around." And y- because you've already started on the gravy, you gotta call her up and sell her more work. And then she's going, "Well, can I, can I hold off on doing the gravy and get the safety..." "No, unfortunately we've already started on that."

[01:58:53] Jeff Compton: Well, shoot, how do you look to the customer now? Yeah. You don't look like an advocate, you know? You look like a- 

[01:58:59] Eric Schoenberger: We took your money ... 

[01:59:00] Jeff Compton: you look like a ri- Yeah. Right? Because they were... And again, the customer's just trying to look after their investment. Yeah. But, like, we're supposed to be advocating for their safety first, their, their longevity and reliability second.

[01:59:15] Jeff Compton: And, uh, we don't do that when we're, when we're coached or taught to, you know, find one thing, get them out of the dealership or get them out of the shop, and then look the car over. We're... That's not, that's... I got a problem with that. So, you know, I don't, I don't believe that that's the right way to make this industry better.

[01:59:33] Jeff Compton: But what would I know, you know? I don't have a private jet, so. Um, it, it's, it's a funny conversation to me because, like, even back in the day, I just learned when I was writing the estimate, and it, it could have been a neglected turd, right, Eric? And you'd be like, you knew how to write it where it prioritized.

[01:59:56] Jeff Compton: And, you know, yeah, the customer's there for an AC complaint on their Caravan, and the, you know, that rear EVAP and lines is gonna pay good, but there's no rear brakes left, the tires are shot, tie rod's bad, steering rack's leaking, like, you know, all that stuff that should be done before the AC is addressed.

[02:00:13] Jeff Compton: Or 

[02:00:13] Eric Schoenberger: you c- they have the right to know everything that's wrong with it. I like Sherwood's, you know, you hold back- Mm-hmm ... and then they're mad at every time they come in, it's 1,000 bucks, $2,000. Yeah. Y- you know? 

[02:00:26] Jeff Compton: Yeah. Yeah, if it needs $6,000 of work the first time you see it, you better tell them that it needs $6,000 worth of work first time you see it.

[02:00:35] Jeff Compton: It doesn't mean that they're gonna do all six right then, but they're not gonna get a surprise next month when it's another thousand, and another thousand- Yeah ... and another thousand. You know, um, until you're at 6,000. You know, that's, uh... I saw advisors that tried to do that. They would have this whole plan laid out with their customer, and then they would say, "Go on vacation," and the, and the customer would come in, make the appointment, and the other advisor would get it, and all that work would get done in one shot.

[02:01:06] Jeff Compton: And you're like, "Hmm, that's pretty cool." 

[02:01:10] Eric Schoenberger: Yeah. 

[02:01:10] Jeff Compton: Like, and that goes back to what I, again, you know, and people hear me say it all the time, like, you, you gotta have the conversation, but you gotta realize that, like, they have... Most of the customers have the means to fix this stuff. If you don't, and this is, this is gonna blow up when Braxton does this as a short, when this is reel, there's gonna be...

[02:01:30] Jeff Compton: My comments are gonna go. Um, most of the customers have the frigging money. If they don't, they don't even bring it in. Oh, yeah. Like, they don't ha- If they don't e- If it comes in on a tow truck, they've got money. Uh, if it comes into the bay, they've got money. Now, do they necessarily have all the money? Mm, that depends.

[02:01:46] Jeff Compton: Can they find the rest of it? Almost always, yes. Um, the cars that they can't afford it, they're sitting in the driveway, and we know the ones when we see them when you drive by 'cause the tires are flat and it hasn't moved in a year. That's the customer that doesn't have the money. Right. If they're in front of you right now, they've got the money.

[02:02:04] Jeff Compton: That's what you have to tell yourself. So, you know, it doesn't mean that you go and empty their f- you don't fleece them. You don't empty their pockets. 

[02:02:12] Eric Schoenberger: Let them pick their battles on what they want done. Yeah. But safety comes first, though. 

[02:02:16] Jeff Compton: Yeah. Always. Um, any closing thoughts, Eric? It's kind of been a...

[02:02:21] Jeff Compton: We've kind of hit the two-hour mark here and could be going for a lot longer, but. Oh, 

[02:02:26] Eric Schoenberger: nothing really. Like I said, it, it's, it, it's... Like I said, I'm, I'm glad I made the, the jump to being an independent. Um, like I said- Mm-hmm ... it just, you're growing, you know, different, different atmosphere, but I think in the grand scheme of things, it's really, it's working out for the best, and I don't regret it.

[02:02:47] Eric Schoenberger: I, you know, at times it's tempting to wanna go back to the dealer, but it's like, nope, I don't... I'm too... I'm more calm. I'm not ready to bite somebody's head off, that, you know, that sort of thing, so. 

[02:03:00] Jeff Compton: Yeah. You seem pretty calm to me. You don't seem like the type that got- 

[02:03:03] Eric Schoenberger: I get fired up every now and then.

[02:03:08] Jeff Compton: I did. I, I was that guy. Like, you could, you know, I was the guy that had a storm cloud over my head most of the days, you know? Uh, it was just what it did to me. I mean, it was... And I was an arrogant cuss too. I was, 'cause I worked really hard at it, and, uh, I expected everyone else to work as hard as I was.

[02:03:26] Jeff Compton: And, um, when I felt like everybody wasn't, yeah, you could see me coming. You'd know about it. I- Because I was... You know, I held them to a standard. Um, which is not, you know, David jokes that he's unemployable. Um, I was, you know, I'm not there yet, but I'm very close to there. Like, I, I'm very lucky that my current employer, um, he's very understanding of how I expect things that should be done, and just the way I see things, what we can handle and what we can't.

[02:03:56] Jeff Compton: Pick your battles, you know, know your... If we're not tooled up, I'm not even interested in trying to, you know, impress anybody anymore. If we don't have the tooling, we don't have the info, send it out to somebody that does. 

[02:04:10] Eric Schoenberger: Yeah. You know, it's gonna be a lot- The only thing I put the woe on is diesel, and luckily my boss- Yeah

[02:04:14] Eric Schoenberger: he'll go, like I ha- I've had a couple Duramaxs, and I'm like, "You know that I don't..." He goes, "Give it a shot. Check engine light. If it's something- Mm-hmm ... beyond what you wanna mess with, then we'll, we'll have somebody else work on it." And I, you know- Yeah ... I, and that's fine, 'cause there's times where that's the only thing you got to work on, you know?

[02:04:33] Eric Schoenberger: And- That's right. Yeah ... at least he's cool about that rather than shove it down my throat, I'm married to it, and, you know, everything else. 

[02:04:40] Jeff Compton: Yeah. Because that's the part I always hated is you... And I was, I'm good at that. I'll give them warning, go, "Hey, I'm not strong at this," or, "Hey, there's some special tools that we're gonna need to if we get into this, and if we get into it, we need to see the way out, which is gonna be, are you willing to do that?"

[02:04:58] Jeff Compton: We had it just with a Tesla. And, um, you know, he's like, uh, "No, I get it. Okay. We'll send it to somebody that's, you know, more familiar." Um, it's these, these jobs that go sideways, and everybody gave them notice that it could, and then when it's all said and done, they're not pointing the finger back at them that made the decisions.

[02:05:18] Jeff Compton: They're pointing the finger at you. Yeah. And I, I can only do what I can do with what I have, which is A, the tooling, or B, the training. And, and, you know, if you give me neither, like, you wanna see a magic show, go to frigging Las Vegas. Like, that's where they are. The, w- I'm not working magic here anymore.

[02:05:35] Jeff Compton: Like, it just doesn't, you know, it doesn't happen that way. I mean, sometimes, yes, you can find the way and work around. Sometimes that's the right thing to do 'cause it's the only thing to do, but we don't need to fix every frigging car. That's such a- 

[02:05:50] Eric Schoenberger: Yeah, you can't fix all 

[02:05:51] Jeff Compton: the world's 

[02:05:52] Eric Schoenberger: cars 

[02:05:54] Jeff Compton: No. There's more frigging cars than, than we can all get through.

[02:05:59] Jeff Compton: Yeah. And i- if more of us would stay in our damn lane, we wouldn't have such a shit reputation with the, with the motoring public because we wouldn't seem like we didn't know what we were doing. We would've been upfront and honest and said, "Hey, I'm not your guy for this." Yeah, 

[02:06:13] Eric Schoenberger: I'll acknowledge my strengths- Yeah

[02:06:14] Eric Schoenberger: and weaknesses. I mean, 'cause I don't wanna- Yeah ... you know, cost the customer or the company, you know? 

[02:06:20] Jeff Compton: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. And a- again, when you're the dealer and it's under warranty, you know how we do it, right? Sometimes you go and grab the part out of the one in the bay next to you, and you put it in and it didn't work.

[02:06:33] Jeff Compton: Good, you're done. You know, like, uh, or, or it did work and you're, diag's done, you know? Um, in the, in the aftermarket we don't have that luxury too often. It can happen, but we don't have that luxury. 

[02:06:45] Eric Schoenberger: You gotta be more accurate- And- ... on your, on your diagnosis 'cause you can't just wing a part at it for nothing, not under warranty.

[02:06:53] Jeff Compton: Yeah. I tell the story, we had a Nissan Titan with a diesel, and, um, it was gonna get ready and go on a, on a Christmas parade, Santa Claus parade. So they go out and fire it up, and all of a sudden it's running like a bag of hammers and, and barely no power, dash lights up. So let's put this at, say, the end of November is when we're getting this ready for this parade route.

[02:07:15] Jeff Compton: Well, they don't take the truck. They don't put it in the parade. Uh, Monday morning, technician looks at it and he finds a bunch of corrosion in the ECM and a bunch of e- corrosion in the ECM connectors. It's under warranty. Call up Nissan. Nissan sends him a harness and an ECM Puts the harness and ECM in.

[02:07:35] Jeff Compton: Actually, he doesn't do it. By now he's so swamped when it finally comes in, like two months later, goes to another tech. The other tech puts it in, truck runs exactly the same. Well, it ended up being a shorted fan clutch, right? If you've worked on any of the old Cummins diesels- Oh, yes ... you remember that those- Yep

[02:07:53] Jeff Compton: those fan clutches would do the exact same thing. Uh-huh. Now, when you're under, when you're dealing with shit under warranty, right, you make two claims. You go and write up a- another VIN number for, for a fan clutch, and you put a fan clutch in it, and you've solved your problem, right? Um- You 

[02:08:11] Eric Schoenberger: become one hell of a story writer.

[02:08:13] Jeff Compton: Yeah. Not advocating for that, but this is... I'm, I'm let- giving some of the secret sauce out. Um, but the reality is when we're in the aftermarket, we can't do that. Yeah. It doesn't flow. And, um, so that's why sometimes when we go to them, we go, "Hey, like, I'm gonna need three hours to get to the problem here."

[02:08:32] Jeff Compton: We can't roll our eyes and go, "What, do you not know what you're doing?" No, I, I, I really don't know what I'm doing. Yeah. And B, I'm trying to avoid, you know, doing it the way we used to do it- 

[02:08:43] Eric Schoenberger: Yeah ... 

[02:08:44] Jeff Compton: um, when the parts were a lot less money and a lot more interchangeable and a lot more common, you know? Um, I remember working in shops where they always had a set of Ford coils ready to go for the Tritons 'cause they were all needing a coil eventually.

[02:08:56] Jeff Compton: And, uh, I can remember having, you know, a leak detection pump on my box or an ESIM on my cart for, you know, every Chrysler. Oh, yeah. Plug it in and run the bay test and done, right? I... We, we all know that. When you're in the aftermarket, it changes your process, and, um, if we're not... If we're still trying to charge what the dealer charges for diag, um, realize that the dealer's got an advantage on you, and you probably should be charging more than them.

[02:09:27] Jeff Compton: Uh, and it's not me running the dealer down. God knows by now if anybody has listened to me, I'm the last person you're gonna hear running that down because that's my, that's my history. I don't throw my people under the bus. Yeah, I'm 

[02:09:38] Eric Schoenberger: proud of what I, I have accomplished in the dealer world. 

[02:09:42] Jeff Compton: Yeah, me too. Me too.

[02:09:44] Jeff Compton: It... I tell the story, and God we're getting long-winded today. I tell the story of if it hadn't been for the dealer job that I took in 2000... No, actually it was '99. If I hadn't have taken that dealer job, I wouldn't be in the industry, 'cause I was going broke working at that little shop, buying tools. I was not getting exposed to anything but a C-level tech.

[02:10:09] Jeff Compton: And if I hadn't taken that dob of the, that job of the dealer for five bucks more an hour hourly and got handed a DRB3 way back in the day and said, "Here, Jeff, go figure this out. Here's the service information. There's a recall. There's a, a, there's a bulletin that tells you how to update this module. Uh, it's part of a recall.

[02:10:27] Jeff Compton: We're doing, like, 10 a day now. Go learn how to do that," I d- I wouldn't be sitting here So I have no hate for the dealers on, on- Me 

[02:10:35] Eric Schoenberger: neither ... 

[02:10:36] Jeff Compton: what they provide. 

[02:10:36] Eric Schoenberger: That's, that's my roots and what made me who I am 

[02:10:41] Jeff Compton: Yeah. Eric, you got a succession plan going out, man, to get out of this industry or- 

[02:10:45] Eric Schoenberger: No ... 

[02:10:45] Jeff Compton: how many gone, how many more years you think you got?

[02:10:47] Jeff Compton: Yeah, 

[02:10:47] Eric Schoenberger: I'm hoping for another 10. Yeah. 

[02:10:50] Jeff Compton: Okay. 

[02:10:51] Eric Schoenberger: My body's still decent. 

[02:10:52] Jeff Compton: You're 50- you're 53 now? 50. Fif- you're the same age as me now. 

[02:10:57] Eric Schoenberger: I'll actually be 50 in December. 

[02:11:01] Jeff Compton: Holy shit. 

[02:11:01] Eric Schoenberger: Yeah, I'm a young- 

[02:11:02] Jeff Compton: I'll be f- I'll be 51. I'll be 51. Um, well that's... Yeah, if you think you got another 10 years, I, I, I'm hoping out for you, man.

[02:11:13] Jeff Compton: It's, uh, I think you can do it if you keep... You know, I wish I'd have taken better care of my knees and my back when I was younger, but I'm pretty lucky I work with guys that their knees and back are worse than mine. 

[02:11:25] Eric Schoenberger: Yeah. It's awful, you know? If, if I couldn't, I wouldn't mind teaching, like I said, doing- Yeah

[02:11:31] Eric Schoenberger: like what they do at Vision, stuff like that. I, I would enjoy that. I don't think I could do voca- Yeah ... like vo-tech or high school. I don't think I got the patience for that. 

[02:11:42] Jeff Compton: Yeah, that's a different obstacle, eh? That's a different challenge. 

[02:11:44] Eric Schoenberger: Um- But yeah, I think that would be my only... 'Cause I, I love the industry and what it's provided, despite the- Mm-hmm

[02:11:52] Eric Schoenberger: frustrations. I mean, but talking about it helps a bunch. I mean... 

[02:11:58] Jeff Compton: Yeah, it really does, eh? It's, um, you know, like you said when you, you said to me, you know, you didn't feel like you were alone anymore. I, I get that almost every week, somebody telling me that, and it's hard for me to still, like, grasp what they're saying because, like, I feel like I'm just out here talking.

[02:12:17] Jeff Compton: And, you know, um, but I realize how many people feel the same way and don't feel like they're being listened to. And, you 

[02:12:25] Eric Schoenberger: know- There's much more that need to t- needed to reach out. Like that latest change in the industry, how few of people in the automotive world watch them guys, less than 1%. 

[02:12:37] Jeff Compton: Yep. Yeah. A- and that's why I get frustrated sometimes, 'cause I get frustrated with techs when it's like, how do you not know who Paul Danner is- 

[02:12:45] Eric Schoenberger: Yeah

[02:12:45] Jeff Compton: by now? Like, how do you not... I've been, I've been online for over 10 years talking about him. Y'all should know. That's, in my narrow brain, what I think. And then it's like when you see shop owners talking when they're struggling, I'm like, how are you still making this mistake? Like, you know, you got Lucas and David who've been talking online for six years about how not to let customers leave without paying the bill.

[02:13:07] Jeff Compton: But yet I remember that, like, less than 5% of us even know who the hell Lucas and David are or who the hell I am. Well, 

[02:13:14] Eric Schoenberger: it's like Vision- So- ... um, Sherwood saying the same- Yeah ... people go into it every year. It hadn't expanded out. And then don't you guys have something similar to it up there, and your turnout's kind of similar?

[02:13:29] Jeff Compton: Yes. We have an event in Toronto, which Toronto's the largest city in the country And there's enough shops in Toronto that could send their people to that show and they would break the capacity of the show. They wouldn't be able to... Like, they would have... And I could call up 100 people in, uh, in Toronto that are in the industry.

[02:13:49] Jeff Compton: I could call them up and they wouldn't even know the show's going on. And I'm not throwing mud at anybody, I'm not throwing shade. It's just the, the fact is all these events that have said for years, and I'm als- all of them, all of them have so much work still to do- Yes ... in getting their, their name, and exposure, and date, and prices out there.

[02:14:13] Jeff Compton: They're not even, they haven't even scratched the surface. And it's, it's ludicrous to me when, you know, they think that a Facebook page is enough. You have to get everybody, like, so when you have all these people that are coming to the expo and they're trying to sell their product, those are your people that you need to be empowering to be able to sell the event to the people that wanna come to it.

[02:14:37] Jeff Compton: And maybe you gotta work out something where it's like you give them a... I don't, and again, I'm not an economics guy. Maybe you gotta some kind of incentive so that they come, but they talk about where they're gonna be or, or you need to be here. Like, all of these events are a you-need-to-be-here event. 

[02:14:55] Eric Schoenberger: Yeah.

[02:14:56] Jeff Compton: And yet, like the one in Toronto, nobody frigging knows when it's happening or what it's gonna be. 

[02:15:00] Eric Schoenberger: It's almost like going to a car show, like in my area. You walk around cars, you'll see flyers for other car shows. What- Yeah ... kinda do something like that, you know, for some of these other trade shows. Mm-hmm.

[02:15:13] Eric Schoenberger: You know? Or put them in magazines like Motor Age, you know? Yeah. I mean, how many shops get, you know, those publications 

[02:15:22] Jeff Compton: Well, and see, the thing is, like, you know, Ratchet & Wrench and all those magazines, like, I don't know because I can't... I don't- Ratchet & Wrench is hard to get in Canada. But, like, you should be pulling a print ad every month for your show for the year.

[02:15:39] Eric Schoenberger: Yeah. 

[02:15:40] Jeff Compton: You know what I mean? Like, it should be to, like, they... Then there's no excuse. And that's, the excuse then becomes is, "Well, what if they don't read the magazine?" Okay, that's where then social media comes in. That's when it becomes like they shouldn't be able to walk into a parts store, or every time the parts store makes a delivery, there's a flyer from your event with the stack of rollers- Yeah

[02:16:00] Jeff Compton: till they're piling up and they don't wanna look at it. Like, you can't tell me you've done everything that you can to make these shows, people aware of them, if you haven't done those things yet. Right. And I under- Listen, it all costs money. I get it. And maybe, maybe the future isn't for these destination events because of the cost, and maybe then that means that people, like, are going to shift to, you know, more online training and more bringing the trainer in.

[02:16:30] Jeff Compton: But here's the beauty of these events. We keep saying it. It isn't what you learn in the classroom, it's the people that you meet when you're networking around the pub- Exactly ... around the bar, when you're having dinner, that is really empowering you to change your business. And, and in turn, when you change your business, you change the industry.

[02:16:44] Jeff Compton: So you can sit there and go, "It costs too much to go for training." No, it doesn't. And, and these events, they need to start seeing, instead of seeing each event as an opponent or as a, uh, competitor, they need to start working together to be... Like, if I was at Asta, and you know, Asta and Tools, we've got kind of the same, uh, a lot of the same people attend those two shows 'cause they have the same kind of vibe.

[02:17:13] Jeff Compton: But there's a lot of people that, uh, attend Vision, right? There's a lot of people that attended Tectonic. I'm not saying everybody needs to go to every event, but holy frig, it'd be pretty cool. It'd be pretty cool if, like, once you're at Vision, somebody could be handing out flyers for Tools, or somebody could be handing out flyers for Tectonic.

[02:17:34] Jeff Compton: Somebody could be handing out flyers for Asta, and onward, and onward, and onward. Like, because there's only so much that, like, we're all inundated with in- information now, and advertising, and Facebook, that there's a lot coming across that we don't even notice. 

[02:17:48] Eric Schoenberger: Yeah. 

[02:17:49] Jeff Compton: But if somebody hands you a flyer and goes, "Hey, did you know that, you know, you're here at Super Saturday, but Tools is gonna happen, you know, five months from now.

[02:17:58] Jeff Compton: Would you be interested in coming back down this way?" "Well, yeah, I would love to." Well, shit, that's, that was a small investment to make that happen, and that's why as long as I can be on here, I'm gonna continue to tell everybody about the events that I know that are going on and the events that I've been to.

[02:18:16] Jeff Compton: Now, I've, I've never been to Vision, so I can't tell anybody what it's like 'cause I ain't been there. But I can tell you that, like, people rave about it, and people rave about every event. So- Yeah, 

[02:18:27] Eric Schoenberger: like the next one I wanna try to go to is, uh, Vegas, the one out there. 

[02:18:32] Jeff Compton: Yes. 

[02:18:33] Eric Schoenberger: Just 'cause SEMA Show- 

[02:18:34] Jeff Compton: It's, yeah ... is also 

[02:18:35] Eric Schoenberger: going on, too.

[02:18:37] Jeff Compton: Uh, so I'll tell you, Eric, I went for the first time two years ago, right? And everybody knows that story. I'd, I'd been wanting to go to SEMA since before I had a driver's license. Uh-huh. And, uh, Vegas is... I mean, it, it's, it's an expensive city to be in. Right. But it's incredible. It's, uh, it changes, it changed my life to be able to walk around SEMA.

[02:18:58] Jeff Compton: Now, I'll tell you, Asta for me is a work. Like, I'm working. I am doing interviews. But to be able to walk around SEMA and get my batteries recharged on the inspiration that you see there as a gearhead, um, I think everybody needs to seriously make that trip, and I think everybody, I think, still needs to make the trip to Vision.

[02:19:19] Jeff Compton: I hope to get there one day. Hope they help me out in getting there. Um, Asta has a feel, like, it, it just feels different. Tools has got the exact same thing. I'm still on a high from coming home from Tools, and I've been home two weeks from it. Like, it's... You know, you meet people. I met so many former guests and future guests, you know, people that, uh- You know, I never got to meet in person.

[02:19:44] Jeff Compton: I only talked to them on here, and all of a sudden they come to Tools or they come to us and I finally get to give them a hug and, and shake their hand. Like, that's life-changing stuff. Mm-hmm. You know? It's, it's where that next level of connection happens. Yeah, 

[02:19:57] Eric Schoenberger: that's, that's the only way to do it, it's on, is actual real life, you know, connection.

[02:20:01] Eric Schoenberger: Yeah. Not just through a webinar or whatever. 

[02:20:04] Jeff Compton: Yeah. Yeah. Well, Eric, I don't wanna keep any more of your time. We gotta let you go. All 

[02:20:10] Eric Schoenberger: right, I appreciate you- Uh ... taking the time to talk to me. 

[02:20:14] Jeff Compton: Oh, dude, we'll do this again- All right ... for sure. I, I would lo- I would love to have more, uh, more conversation, more, um, you know, uh, more kinda share with us what you're doing at the shop and tell us about that.

[02:20:26] Jeff Compton: All right. 'Cause I mean, we kinda touched on the dealer thing, but I mean- Yeah ... that'll be always interesting. Um, so we'll have you back on at some point- Okay ... for sure. Everyone, I just wanna say thank you. Like he said, you know, you're not alone, so reach out to me if you feel like you are. All right. Uh, to my family at, you know, Promotive and, uh, LaunchTech, you know, uh, Tech metric, I, I can't do this without you guys, so thank you for everything that you provide me the ability to do.

[02:20:53] Jeff Compton: Um, you know, I try not to let yous down. Um, so everybody, you know, try to be just 1% better tomorrow than you were today and love one another. Give your service writers a little more grace. Service writers, pick your game up. 

[02:21:07] Eric Schoenberger: Yep. 

[02:21:09] Jeff Compton: Uh, and collectively we'll all change this industry. So thank you everybody. I love you.

[02:21:14] Jeff Compton: We'll talk to y'all soon. 

[02:21:15] Eric Schoenberger: Thank 

[02:21:16] Jeff Compton: you.