Ep 111
Jesse: [00:00:00] What are your thoughts on this? Like, are we supposed to be walking around just praying to God 24 7? Not, not talking to people. We're just supposed to be walking through the streets.
middle of a conversation. Leave me alone.
Doug: [00:00:15] All I know is that I think if we turn the radio off, when people were driving there and they prayed unceasingly, there'd be a lot less road rage problems. That's 
Zac: [00:00:23] true.
Jesse: [00:00:32] Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the Salty Pastor Podcast, a podcast dedicated to teaching you how to think for yourself. We are here on this fine Tuesday morning to do a Bible study about the upcoming sermon, um, which will happen here at Foothills on Sunday. And then Thursdays, we spend the day talking about how those applicants, uh, those points that we're making in the sermon will apply to your real actual life in a pragmatic way.
I am blessed to have. Two salty people with me today. Uh, Dr. Douglas Peake, the original Salty Pastor the pastor and his son, Zach peak. Um, this takes me back to your metaphor on, on church, on Sunday, pastor about bronze swagger with, uh, it has more salt than salt has. Hey, he's just, so now I'm just overwhelmed with salt.
Doug: [00:01:18] He's a chip off the old salt block, the old salt block. 
Zac: [00:01:22] I prefer to do a little bit more sweet. At this point.
Jesse: [00:01:25] 
You are in the sweet one. I have to balance 
all this. 
Zac: [00:01:29] I can't match your sweetness, Jesse.
Jesse: [00:01:30] Well, I'm so glad to have both of you here. Zac's actually preaching the message this Sunday, but we thought it would be fun to have all three of us on.
We're trying a little bit of a change up in the format. See what it's like to have double the salt in a podcast. You guys can let us know in the comments or through emails of whether you like it or not, but we're going to give it a shot today. So, uh, Zac, what are we, what are we discussing this Sunday?
Zac: [00:01:55] Well, one thing I've really liked about this series is that it's really practical focused, and that allows it to just be really simple commands. A really simple application points just to move forward and get rolling and get going in your life and your faith with Christ. And so today in keeping with that tradition, we're going to be in first Thessalonians.
Uh, we're going to be at the end of the letter. Portion where Paul just starts listing off really quickly. He's kind of summarizing all I said in the letter. And at the very end, he's just like, oh, and also here's this, this, this, this, and this. And we're going to focus on one of the points he gives, which is in verse 17.
He says, pray unceasingly. 
Jesse: [00:02:33] Mm. So Pastor Doug really quick, you, you gave a really nice encapsulation of what the Bible breakout is kind of how it's formatted as a library. And you said, um, all the epistles are letters to groups of people, groups of people, cities, what are the Thessalonians like? Cause in Ephesians, Ephesians.
Ephesians it's the city of Ephesus Ephesus. So what what's, what is the city 
Doug: [00:02:58] Thessaloniki.
Jesse: [00:02:59] Thessaloniki, that's your Bible trivia for the day, Thessaloniki.
Doug: [00:03:05] Like a was, uh, started after Paul on a second missionary journey. He and Silas were being persecuted by the Jew Jews and Athens. And so he, they fled to this city.
They planted this church here. It had a lot of opposition from the Jews. At this point, they were very antagonistic to this new, uh, movement at that time. They called it the way, which is interesting. They weren't known as Christians. 
Jesse: [00:03:31] This is the way. Were they watching the Mandalorian before? 
Doug: [00:03:34] No, I was just known as the way 
Zac: [00:03:37] They didn't have Netflix?
Doug: [00:03:38] They did not 
Jesse: [00:03:39] No, it's Disney plus it's 
Doug: [00:03:41] not on  Netflix. 
What happened is, uh, uh, really. Solid start. And they were really a great church. It wasn't a big church, but it was just a really solid church. The whole letter of first Thessalonians from Paul to them is basically, it's really interesting because he uses all this verbiage that he doesn't use in a lot of other letters where he says, you know, like a mother and like this.
So he's like by my dear beloved children. So it's like, he's playing into this. Paul, Paul's usually pretty salty. And to the point, but in this one, he's using a lot of references about his affection and he's so fond of them. And so their biggest question that they had is that people were dying before Christ had come back.
And so that's really what the book addresses mostly. And then as Zac pointed out, so appropriately is at the end, he kind of just gives all of these rapid fire statements of what to do. Uh, to keep your faith vibrant, you know, I 
Jesse: [00:04:48] Get up and go with your faith
Doug: [00:04:49] To get up and go because I love right after this, he says in verse 19, he says, do not quench the Holy Spirit.
And so I think the context of pray without ceasing is critical along with these other things, he mentions. To not quenching the spirit of God and its work in your life. 
Jesse: [00:05:10] So this letter to Thessaloniki, Thessaloniki, right? Yeah. Okay. Um, he specifically asked them to pray without ceasing Zac, what. What are your thoughts on this?
Like, are we supposed to be walking around just praying to God 24/7? Not, not talking to people. We're just supposed to be walking through the streets.
middle of a conversation. Leave me alone. 
Doug: [00:05:37] All's I know is that I think if we turn the radio off and people were driving there and they prayed unceasingly, there'd be a lot less road rage 
Zac: [00:05:44] Probably. 
Jesse: [00:05:44] It's true. Yeah. So let's, what is your, what is your attitude towards this?
Zac: [00:05:50] It's funny, even in his little joke about road rage, he brings up a great point of one of the reasons why we should pray so often.
Um, but before we go to why I do wanna address what you asked, which is, do we just, this is like a literal thing. You know, one thing we see in the gospels, uh, and we know about now is that there are parts in the old Testament where God talks about, you know, always carrying the law with you and stuff. And so like, weren't there, like people who were Jewish who had like, actually have like a scripture or something on foreheads 
Doug: [00:06:23] Phylactery. 
Jesse: [00:06:24] We're getting all the vocab words. 
Doug: [00:06:25] The little box with little tiny scroll in there and they could scroll versus, and they would, oh, they were like the 
Jesse: [00:06:31] original, like led signs.
Like they have shirts now that do that. They were doing that on their foreheads. 
Doug: [00:06:38] The original l E D wow. 
Jesse: [00:06:42] I'm I'm the tech nerd. Remember everything is some sort of a A/V reference. 
Doug: [00:06:47] Zac brings up a great point. Is that, what, what does that mean to pray? 
Zac: [00:06:50] Some people. Do you like, do you take it literally? And there were people who they were Jewish who took the old Testament literally, and would carry around the scripture on their forehead and everything.
And I don't think that's what Paul's talking about here, because. I think Paul is making a general more general statement. I'm not, it's not every word you say needs to be a prayer. It's not like you are never ceasing in your prayer to God. It's more of an encouragement to frequency. I remember growing up prayer for me, a lot of the time was like, oh, we, you know, we say a prayer before dinner.
Like that always happens and everything. And there were times when I was little where I didn't pray a whole lot more than that. It was like, oh yeah, you can just pray during dinner. And then maybe before bed. Well, when we look at Jesus's life specifically, we see him. There's times in the gospel. Early in the morning to pray, or he goes out and prays all night, or he goes with the disciples to a Gethsemane and says, let's go outside the city.
And I'm going to take some separate time to pray, or there's times when he's with the disciples and they all pray or there's times when he gets away from people to pray. So Jesus constantly, it's not something that he's only praying. He's doing other things. He's interacting with people, you know, he's going around performing, performing miracles and such, but he's, he's constantly taking time to do it.
He he's taking intentional time, you know, probably at least a few times a day, you know, whether he's doing his ministry, whether he's just by himself, in all these situations he's applying prayer. 
Doug: [00:08:15] So my question for you is this, can you pray without your mind being engaged? 
Zac: [00:08:23] Oh, that's a good question. 
Doug: [00:08:24] Cause there, cause the reason why it's like you, when it says you should, uh, in Deuteronomy six is where he says, you know, you shall take these words and you shall bind them on your forehead.
You said that. Uh, and so people made little boxes, 
They took it very literally, literally your forehead.
 But, but was that the point of that verse in the old Testament or what was he saying is that they should guide your thought process, right? But you can tie that to your forehead and. You, your brain will think of something else and is a great illustration after you've been married for awhile, you know, you can develop a habit where your spouse is talking to you.
And you're like, mmmhhmmm. 
Jesse: [00:09:01] I don't think that ever happens. Pastor Doug, I've never heard of that occuring 
Zac: [00:09:06] That doesn't happen to me. What are you talking about? 
Doug: [00:09:08] But then your spouse looks, you go, you, did you, what did I just say? Uh, I don't know. 
Jesse: [00:09:13] Here's the real question. Do your spouses listen to this podcast?
Doug: [00:09:18] So the question is, is, is because I think when he says pray without ceasing, we have to take that into account.
Can you pray without your brain being focused on the communicative event?
Zac: [00:09:34] I think I know what you're going for. And I would try to splice the wordage. Splice always splicing 
Doug: [00:09:40] hairs, 
Jesse: [00:09:41] splitting 
hair, 
Doug: [00:09:42] splitting hairs. 
Zac: [00:09:43] I think there's an important piece of it. It's very related to prayer and that is Christian meditation. Meditation in this day and age is seen as more of an Eastern thing.
Meditation, from what we understand mostly in America is about emptying your mind, emptying yourself, but there is a Christian term tradition. You know, and it starts even in Joshua, there's a Jewish tradition of meditating on the word of God and kind of emptying yourself and being filled by God. And so I would say your brain being engaged, your brain isn't necessarily engaged when you meditate on God's word and you, you listen to God and you try to communicate with him by, by letting him fill you up.
So I don't think you're necessarily mean brain engagement. I think you mean an intentional act. Can you be praying if you're just, and a good example is Jesse and I talked right before this and I made the example, but going to the gym, if you want to get into shape. You go to the gym, but you don't just show up at the gym.
You can't just go sit at the YMCA for an hour, a day. 
Jesse: [00:10:40] You walk around drinking a water bottle, looking sweaty. Does that help you lose weight? 
Doug: [00:10:45] Figuring what smoothie you're going to get after you're done. 
Zac: [00:10:47] I mean, I wish
Jesse: [00:10:48] I went to the gym today.
Zac: [00:10:50] I went to the gym. It's like, that's not it. And I think that's what you're getting.
Yeah. Is, you know, you could go to the gym and intentionally stretch and that would be good. That would help you get in shape. And that's not necessarily like pushing yourself to the limit. And I think that's what you're getting at. And I'd say you don't have to have your brain engaged as in, you can have times.
Prayer or meditation can just be sitting and thinking on something or trying to listen to the Spirit and being in a quiet, dark place. Like that can be a form of prayer. And your mind is not really fully like engaged. Not like you're thinking constantly. I don't, I don't want that. Yeah. I don't, I don't think that's what you're asking though, 
Doug: [00:11:27] But I think it reinforces the point that you made earlier, that what Paul's instructing us to do is have an intentionality.
Zac: [00:11:33] And that's what it is
Doug: [00:11:34] In all these different forms. And I don't know about you, but one of the things I have to do is that my brain, particularly at this age, in my life, it doesn't want to. To give a lot of effort. So I will, I'll be doing things, you know, and my, my brain likes my body going through rhythms and processes and systems.
So it doesn't have to think. Right? And so, so in order for me to get it sometimes intentional or get the best out of me is I have to change up a little bit. And I noticed what you were brought up about Jesus. Well, he prayed this way and then he prayed that way and then he prayed this way. And then you brought up the workout.
I think prayers like that. In some ways you got to change your workout up sometime if you want to get more out of 
Jesse: [00:12:17] it. Well, cause you'll plateau in a workout. Like if you just do crunches forever, at some point you can't develop that muscle. You will, you get diminishing returns on it. Right. And so a lot of coaches will say, we're going to do this for X amount of time, and then we'll switch it up.
And we're going to do similar to something that's working in the same body part, but you're going to do a completely different exercise because it's going to shape it and mold it in a different way. And you're saying, 
Doug: [00:12:42] Well, how then do we switch up prayer?
Zac: [00:12:43] Well, and that's why I wanted to, to make sure that the wordage of your question, the verbiage of your question, the way you phrased it.
I don't want there to be a misconception that for prayer to be working or for you to be praying, you have to be like, thinking about all these things or thinking about all these words or going through like a big list of prayer things. Like prayer can be so an encompassing. It can be, it can look so many different ways.
And that's why I think the intentionality is more important. You know, brain engagement can can be misconstrued with like, thinking about it. It's not that you have to be thinking about prayer. You have to, when you pray, you have to be thinking about all these things. It's, there's a lot of different ways that prayer can happen, that it can be intentional.
And we see there's times when Jesus goes to God and he, he he's asking him for things or he's asking him, you know, to be strengthened or when he's in Gethsemane, he's asking if the cup can be passed. There is a portion of asking, you know, and talking to God and asking for things. 
Doug: [00:13:37] So if we want to pray a lot, we should take our requests to God. 
Zac: [00:13:41] That that's, that's part of it.
Yeah. Yeah. Well, and, and this is part of, you know, the mixing up that you asked about how can we mix a prayer requests are a part of it. I mean, that's, when, when Jesus tells the disciples how to pray, the disciples, ask him how to pray and he responds and he gives the Lord's prayer. You know, your Father who art in heaven, hallowed be thy name.
There's the part, give us this day, our daily bread. And that's there are requests in there. Yeah. There's also other portions of it. Yeah. Uh, one thing I talked about earlier that I think is, I think is important to recognize as Christians in our current cultural moment in this country is meditation because meditation is seen as an Eastern.
And like the mindfulness movement of people, you know, taking time out of their day to meditate, we hear about, you know, more athletes doing it. If you read sports stuff or wherever.
Jesse: [00:14:27] I mean apple watch even have included an app now that encourage you to take breaths and be mindful and like, yeah.
There's a lot of apps now that are just dedicated to that. 
Zac: [00:14:37] And it's simple. Yeah. And it's important to realize that can be a Christian, like thing. That's I don't know. You know, some people would say it's not exactly prayer. I think they're kind of they're similar enough and they can happen kind of both at the same time sometimes.
Doug: [00:14:49] So how would you meditate as a follower of Christ? I mean, in prayer, how would you, 
Zac: [00:14:54] Well, one of my favorite things to do is sometimes I'll start a prayer and then I'll just stop talking, you know? And it's just, it's just sitting and ruminating and letting it sit. And relaxing and you know, my, my heart is still pointed towards God.
You know, you're still intentionally wanting it to be a time with God, but just because it's a time with God, doesn't mean you have to be talking and it's like, well, is he going to say anything? Maybe, maybe not, but taking that time to intentionally sit with Him. And, and whether it be listening, whether it be relaxing sometimes a great way to do it is right after you read some scripture, reading scripture, reading your Bible, and then taking some time after it to pray or relax.
Another thing that can be really important. And this is why your road rage comment was kind of fun is allowing God's perspective to enter your life. Why, why would you have less road rage if you pray while driving it's because if somebody cuts you off. Okay. Do I really need to get mad about that? Yeah, like it's, it's probably okay.
Or if somebody, you know, doesn't move now, sometimes people do things that are dangerous that it's like, ah, it's still probably not a good thing. 
Doug: [00:15:58] We need to hold you accountable. 
Zac: [00:15:59] Yeah. If, if somebody, you know, if you're sitting at a light, you know, when somebody. You know, whips in front of you or something, and it's not like super dangerous, but it is annoying.
Or that person who like sees the empty lane and drives all the way up to the front and then cuts in so they can skip the line. And you're like, ah, and
Doug: [00:16:14] You need God's perspective. 
Zac: [00:16:16] It's like with God's perspective, you can sit back and. Okay. It's not that big of a deal. You know, 
Doug: [00:16:23] I think it's as critical for COVID because, uh, when COVID first came out, you know, I I'm, uh, you know, uh, I've been the lead pastor here for Foothills all these years.
And I just thinking, I mean, it was just emotionally is overwhelming. Cause I'm thinking here's all my staff. These people are like family to me. Here's all these people in the church, you know, a thousand people and a lot. There's a lot of people who are over 60 in our church. We have people in nursing homes.
We had a service at the assisted care facility right next to us and all this concern. And I'm just so wrapped up in all this. And I'm praying God, you know, is this the end times, are all these people going to die? And what's going to happen here. And I'm praying and huh dah, dah, dah. And it's like you said, you just stopped talking for a moment.
You know. 
Jesse: [00:17:06] You mean a conversation has to be two ways, you have to listen?
Doug: [00:17:10] Yeah. And I felt like the Lord was saying to me, it's just like, well, we really can't address all your issues until you kind of get over this fear. Yeah. You know, you're, you're like requesting that I do this, this, then it's like chill out, you know, and let me work.
So I think that's an excellent point you bring in there. 
Zac: [00:17:29] The one thing that really helps me try to. Try to see things from God's perspective, all prayer or while in prayer is, is asking him, you know, and, you know, we talked about how requests are part of it. And I think part of requests, you know, a lot of the time when we think of requests in prayer, prayer, we're thinking about, you know, the kids who are praying for a bike or praying.
Doug: [00:17:48] We're asking God to do something thing.
Zac: [00:17:51] It's like, we can also request things like, you know, God, what, what's your thought on this? What do you, what do you see when you see this situation? God, or, you know, if you really want to have possibly get convicted, ask God, what do you see in my life? You know, one of the things that David prayed was God search my heart, you know, search me.
Find the sin, find the anxiety find what's within me. What's pulling me away from you reveal these things to me so I can come closer to you and prayer can be, you know, so many different angles and so many different things. It's amazing. And that's why part of the reason I wanted to talk about it is because. 
Doug: [00:18:28] I think what you just said right there about, instead of asking God to do something, you're asking, what's your perspective, what's your, you know, those types of things is that's when your prayer life.
Really transforms and becomes powerful. 
Jesse: [00:18:42] Well, and I've, I've, we, I went up to the men's retreat this last year. Um, and one of the greatest things I got out of that there was so many great things, but, um, the speaker was just talking about, you know, giving God permission to do something in your life is a big thing, because it's not that he needs permission.
He could do whatever he wants. Does he choose to no, not usually, but if you put yourself in a heart position, where you're saying, Hey, I know I'm doing really bad at this, and I want you to help me do this. Yeah. That puts a whole different perspective on rather than even just getting convicted or having guilt over that thing.
When you make that choice and you say, God, I want you to help me fix this in myself or work on this. Yeah. It's a completely different posture about how you're going to go about fixing that. And so I think that's another thing is it's not just feeling bad about it, but saying, God, it's another request, but you're, you're basically saying I'm giving you permission to fix this within me because I'm, I'm done letting this rule my life rather than you.
Doug: [00:19:48] So there's requesting there's meditating. There's there's just asking God to speak. What else? 
Zac: [00:19:55] I'd say another one. Um, and this is kind of similar to what we were just talking about. Uh, there's a classic book called "With Christ in the School of Prayer", uh, written by Murray. I think it is. 
Doug: [00:20:05] Yeah. 
Zac: [00:20:05] And yeah, 
Doug: [00:20:06] classic.
Zac: [00:20:07] It's a classic
Doug: [00:20:08] Meaning, it's really old.
Zac: [00:20:10] Basically. It's really old. 
Jesse: [00:20:12] Well, based on his conversations before we started, we're both classics at this point, some comment about, oh my ears still work. So,
Zac: [00:20:21] Hey, these things are turned up way too loud 
Jesse: [00:20:24] Be aware of our demographic that listens to this podcast is older than I am.

Zac: [00:20:28] Nothing wrong with leaving the volume all the way up on everything. Just so you can. No, but this book "With Christ in the School of Prayer", he takes this angle on it. That's really cool about how, when you go to God, he's like, you don't need to be good at praying. None of us are good at praying. We all have work to do you know, who teaches you to pray God, and you know how he teaches you by having you do it, go to him and say, God, I want you to teach me how to pray, you know, and, and allowing him to work on you and change you and kind of like what you were just saying, giving him permission.
And not just giving him permission, but essentially asking. Right saying, God, I don't know any of this, but, but you do so can you please help me out being dedicated to that?
Jesse: [00:21:07] When I teach dance, it's always the first comment out of every person who steps into a lesson with me as well. "I'm not very good at this.
I don't know how to do this." And it's like, that's not your job. That's what I'm here for. 
Zac: [00:21:16] You're like, you're like, yeah, if you were good, you wouldn't be. 
Jesse: [00:21:19] You wouldn't be here. You wouldn't need me. Don't worry about it. Like, don't apologize when you mess up. Like, that's the reason you're here is because you want to improve.
You just have to give your self permission to fail and then continue getting better. And I think that's the same. What you're saying, our relationship with God should be too. Is we're not so sinful and we're not so bad at prayer that he's like, no, go figure it out on your own before you come back. Like, 
Doug: [00:21:45] Well, the other thing too, I think is picking up on what you just said is.
Uh, when you pray with somebody else who knows how to pray, you know, I mean, somebody that God has taught how to pray is Pastor Harvey. And so pastor you, so Harvey and I are, we'll be doing something else. You know, it will be spend time. He goes, let's go into prayer walk, you know? And so we'll start walking, which is really good for me because sitting and doing nothing and praying, you know, I get about five minutes into my prayer.
Then I started thinking about what I need to do. 
Zac: [00:22:13] Can you please hurry it up? 
Doug: [00:22:17] I'm just so bad at that. But so we're walking. And then Harv is praying, you know, and what's really cool about it is he's praying for things. And I'm like, I, would've never thought of that. I mean, I just, would've never prayed about that in that way.
Zac: [00:22:31] And that's a great example of that. Pray continually, just taking time intentionally and saying, let's go for a walk and pray, you know, it's, it's a little different, it's not, you know, You know, sitting down and crossing your hands or whatever. It's not like that, that, you know, stereotypical prayer, but it's a way to work prayer in, you know?
And it's like, I remember thankfully I've been working from home for a while because my company sent everybody home with a pandemic. But when I was working in the office, I would have to take breaks a lot. You know, I just, you can't sit at your desk for hours, but with, without any movement. And so I would get up from my desk and walk around for 10 minutes, you know, they even suggest that I'm like, I could totally take time, you know, five, 10 minute prayer walk and something like that can be,
radically special for your, your mindset and your mentality, your relationship with God. And just imagine like how much, you know, maybe you love your job and that's awesome, but if you don't love your job or, or you get stressed out, sometimes at it, imagine how much better and calmer you could be. If you would take a, you know, a prayer walk during work and to say, God, what's your perspective on this work?
You know, when you, you think back, and this is why reading scripture is so important on top of praying, but you think back to the times where Paul says, you know, work. You know,  earn, earn your living, make sense. So no one can say anything poorly about you, but also everything you do is for God. And God's more important, you know, and just being able to pray during work and remind yourself of that can be awesome.
Or like, you know, working in a church as a pastor that you and Harvey both do that. I'm sure there are tons of things that need prayer. And like you were saying, you'd go on a prayer walk and there's so many things you haven't thought of, and it just gives you time to, to sit back. And, and, and one thing too, that I think is so important about prayer, which can be difficult sometimes is the listening. You know, and even if nothing is being said, We live in a culture that's so loud all the time, you know, especially my generation, we always have pod, a podcast or music or a show.
I know a lot of people who will put like a Netflix show on the background while they work and stuff, you know, and it's just, it's all go, go, go. And it's so, so engaged all the time. Your brain is engaged, but on the type of engagement, you know, we're talking about that prayer can bring, which is like sometimes praying.
And just taking a step back and intentionally like being like, I'm going to try to listen and then something comes into your head and you're like, not right now, not right now. And maybe you need to be walking to be, you know, able to do that. Otherwise you'll get really ADHD, uh, but whatever it takes for you and at the end of the day, prayer is about you and your relationship with God.
And so what I want to talk about is what Paul means by pray continually. What does that look like in terms of frequency? We'll look at Jesus with that. What does it mean to pray? You know, it's not just, you know, it's not just sitting down crossing, you're closing your eyes, bowing your head. And it's like, oh, it's done.
It's like, what, what are we thinking? What are we doing? What are we trying to accomplish during prayer? But then also, you know, it's a thing with you. And my favorite thing about that book and "With Christ in the School of Prayer" is it's about, God will take you to school. And God will tell you things. I can't tell you, Pastor Doug, can't tell you, Jesse, Pastor Harv, can't tell you we can all help you and we can try to guide you and we'll use the scripture to do that.
But at the end of the day, it's you and God. And we want to equip you and let you know about some information so that you can go out and figure it out with the Lord. And stuff. 
Doug: [00:25:49] That's, what's really important. I mean, about just the whole vibe of Foothills is we're not trying to tell people what to do or what to believe.
And it's not that we don't know what we believe. That we stand on the biblical truth and convictions, but the pro the thing, what we're trying to do is, you know, prayer is about every person listening. To this it's about them and their related shipped with God. Right. You know,
Jesse: [00:26:12] if you're a, relationship's only through us.
You don't have a relationship. 
Doug: [00:26:17] And boy, you're going to have a real misconception. We want you to know God personally and walk with him. We want you, and that's what prayer is about. As well as belief, you have to know what you believe, because what you believe is going to help or hinder, the efficacy of the prayer experience between you and God.
Yeah. 
Jesse: [00:26:39] Well, and I think as we're, as we're getting down to the end of today, the last thing I kind of want to talk about is when I started first working here, I had this big revelation of when you pray for someone else with them there, it's almost more intimate than like. I mean
Doug: [00:26:57] Having a conversation 
Jesse: [00:26:59] or, I mean, it's significantly more informed, intimate than a conversation.
I mean, like, and it gives some people really anxiety. And so being able to pray with someone, for someone, with them there in the room, or even just leading, like I've been in a couple of small groups and people are like, I just don't feel comfortable praying cause they don't feel like they're good enough.
Or what they want to say is. You know, it's like, it's this thing where it's like, you feel like you're not good enough or you, or this conversation's too personal to have with anybody else there. And I think, is there any tips you guys would give on that? Cause it's like, that was something it took even me a little bit while like I'd have someone come into the office and they'd be like, would you pray for me?
I'd be like. This is like, really like, like, I almost feel like, you know, I'm alone with a significant other kind of a thing. Like it's that kind of intimacy, at least for me. And it's like, it's really intense. And so I could see how that would be scary for some people it's like, oh yeah, I pray on my own. I do my, I do my nightly prayers or whatever, but, you know, praying in a group or praying for someone else with them hearing me.
That's that's too much. Do you guys have insight on that? And then this is, I don't even know if you're planning on talking about this. Well, no, I mean, it's my job here as the facilitate conversation.  
Zac: [00:28:15] Is a great question again. And I'd say you got thrown into the deep end a little bit because you work at the church.
So you're like, I have to say yes, oh no. So you figure it out real quick, but, but. Yeah, starting small is always a great way to do it. Well, well, not just that, but starting with, you know, maybe it's really, really difficult for a friend at first, but you know, like you said, a significant other or someone you're really close to or someone that, you know, when you trust, you know, starting with that and praying for them.
And it's like anything else taking time, setting intentionality, starting small, slowly working bigger are all great things to do, but, but also recognizing. And asking yourself the question. Why, why is it so uncomfortable? At the end of the day, do you really think you're actually. Like bad at prayer does, it's got to have a report card up there and he's grading your prayer.
Cause that's not happening. 
Jesse: [00:29:11] Your essay is going to get back. He's like, well, you didn't hit this. You didn't, you didn't say my names. You didn't do this. 
Zac: [00:29:16] No. Ask yourself, why am I so apprehensive about this? Because I think the re you'll you'll come to realize the reason you're apprehensive is not anything from God. It's not anything from, you know, goodness.
You know, it says in the Bible that people who teach and people who preach will be held to a higher standard. So if you're, you know, someone asks you to teach a Bible class and you are apprehensive, there's a little bit there's, there's reason to be. You can source it in the Bible, but when it comes to praying for somebody, you know, if someone asks you to pray for them, if you want to be able to pray for somebody you're praying in a group, ask yourself why you're apprehensive about that.
And I think you'll find. There's not something from the Bible. There's not something from God. There's not something from Paul or Christ or the apostles. It's, it's almost always a thing that is, and I don't think you need to do this, but it's, it's, it's centered on self it's centered on insecurity and self doubt.
And it's a negative thing. That's that's from a bad place. And I think that trying to overcome that is a laudable, awesome thing. That the other thing to recognize that, you know, you mentioned what, what we believe is what we want to talk about here and helping people refine what they believe. And you say often what you believe is the most important thing about you.
Well, one of the things that is true is that speaking to the creator of the universe, speaking to Him on behalf of others. Is one of the most powerful things you can do as a human being. And so we want you to believe that we want you to understand that and know that. And if you truly believe and know that speaking to the creator of the universe is an incredibly powerful thing, then why wouldn't you do it for somebody else?
And I think you'll realize the, the reason why it's so difficult is because there's somebody who doesn't want you to do it. 
Doug: [00:30:56] Yeah, exactly. And I that's what I would say is that so many people have said to me, I want to pray, but I don't know what to pray about. And well, you know, I, I have a few things about me.
I pray about them, but I'm done in 25 seconds. Right. And so what you're saying is, and I think this is where your prayer life really become changes and transforms is when you spend all your time praying for other people, on their behalf. I can't tell you how many times I've had conversations with people and say, well, I have a friend or I have a, my spouse or this, and I don't know what to say.
And sometimes when I say I have you prayed about it and they're like, Well, yeah. You know, I asked God to fix it or do it. I go, oh, no. Did you have you prayed and interceded for your spouse or for this or for that, you know, uh, there's a book out there, "The Power of a Praying Wife", you know, and it gets women.
You know, women are frustrated a lot of times in their marriages. And so what happens is they, they will try to change their husband or change their situation through their own administrations or their own effort and that, but when they start praying. For their husband, it totally changed the dynamic. And so they got another book out there, you know, "The Power of a Praying Husband", you know, and I'll tell you what guys, if you don't, if you wanna change your wife, if you wanna change your marriage, if you want to change anything that's going on in that situation.
Then the thing you do is don't pray about your marriage. Don't pray about what needs to be fixed, pray for your wife, that God would move in here and bless her and love her and, and use you to bless her. And that is how things really change. 
Jesse: [00:32:38] Well, I think that's some great advice on, on that question and I'm really excited to hear what else you have to talk about on Sunday.
Um, it was fun to have all three of us. It's a different kind of energy, the double salt, I would say I'm a fan of the double salt, but we'll see if everybody else enjoyed it, but we'll be, we'll maybe have to do this again sometime soon. So, uh, I just think you guys so much for joining. Um, obviously we love being here and working with you guys, um, and, and creating this podcast so that you guys can continue to grow in your faith, continue to refine, find what you believe and how you think so that you can have confidence when someone asks you what you believe that you can go and say, I know for a fact, this is what I believe and why I believe it.
And that gives you so much power in your daily life of knowing why you believe it. You're not riding your parents' faith. You're not riding your spouse's faith. Um, you're not just going through the motions, but knowing I have someone who loved me enough, who created the universe who died for me because he loves me so much and is constantly wanting the best for me.
That gives you a confidence, you cannot experience in any other capacity. And that's what we want to help you refine so that you can walk around with that kind of confidence. So we thank you guys so much for joining us. We'll be here again on Thursday with another great podcast, some more applicable things.
Maybe my question would have been better applicable there, but you know, I can do what I want. So thank you guys so much and we'll see you out there. 
Doug: [00:34:02] Blessings.