>> Jeniffer: Hello and welcome to the Premise M. I'm
Jennifer Thompson. I'm Chad Thompson. And we are here today
with the lovely and amazing Judy Reeves. She's
in studio, so we're super stoked. Welcome,
Judy.
>> Judy Reeves: Thank you. It's lovely to be here.
>> Jeniffer: I'm really excited about this interview. I absolutely
love this book when your heart says
go. And it's been on my bookshelf for a
while and I like to read books right
before the interviews, so they're super fresh. So I just
recently finished reading it and it's stuck with me.
It's such a beautiful, beautiful book.
But before we dive into this conversation about you as a writer
and everything you do in the community, I'm gonna tell our
listener a little bit about you. Our, listener. Just the one. The
one. Just the one.
>> Judy Reeves: That would be my mother.
>> Jeniffer: Well, and my mother too.
>> Judy Reeves: Okay. Okay.
>> Jeniffer: There we go. And Chad'mother well, we won't have
her. She said she's no longer with us, but she,
she is in memory. So we have listeners. We
do.
Judy Reeves is an. An award winning writer and
teacher whose books include when your heart says
go, a writer's book of days, named best
nonfiction by the San Diego Book Awards and a
hottest books for writers by Writers Digest.
Also writing alone, Writing together, the
writers retreat Kit and Wild Women,
Wild Voices. Her fiction, nonfiction and
poetry have appeared in many journals and
anthologies. She is a longtime teacher of
creative writing and has taught at
UC UCSD Extension and has
led community based writing practice groups for more
than 30 years. She teaches at writing conferences
internationally and at San Diego Writers Inc. A
nonprofit literary center which she co founded.
And she lives right here in San Diego amid, bulging book
bookshelves and an ancient Underwood Typri
that claims its own social media
fanbase, which I'm not surprised.
It's a gorgeous typewriter.
>> Judy Reeves: Yes. That was my husband's typewriter.
>> Jeniffer: Oh, was it?
>> Judy Reeves: Yeah. When he came, he came with his typewriter.
>> Jeniffer: And were you envious of it then? Did you think,
that'a that's a handsome typewriter?
>> Judy Reeves: I didn't appreciate it until later. I was into the
sleek stuff, you know, little, little, little guys like the one
you have here.
>> Jeniffer: Yeah.
And we're speaking of Tom.
>> Judy Reeves: Tom Reeves. Yeah. Tom I love. Yeah.
>> Jeniffer: Who this book is really, you know, a
lot about Tom as a love letter to Tom. And in
some ways I think this book is a love letter
to grief. I m. Think that sounds
really weird because no one loves grief or wants anything
to do with it, but it's the way you write
about it, it's so, so
openly. There's a sweetness to it. It
feels very hopeful, like a rebirth in
some ways, but not, you didn't
embrace grief per se, but you leaned into it. And I
really feel that when I'm reading this book. I. I guess
what I'm trying to ask is that even though you were running
from the sadness of the memories in San Diego, you
take this year long trip in this book, you're actually
running toward yourself or finding
yourself. Okay. So I wouldn't say this book is about
escape, but the opposite.
>> Judy Reeves: It's about searching, I would say, rather than escape.
Seeking is a word that I've always used about
myself. Always
seeking whatever it is that
will settle this unsettledness down.
Yeah, yeah.
>> Jeniffer: It's like you had this new layer of you that didn't exist before,
which is grief.
>> Judy Reeves: Yeah.
>> Jeniffer: And so you're trying to figure out who is Judy Reeves in
the world with this new layer. And it did feel
really beautiful. in so many ways is why it
constantly felt like a love letter to travel
to finding yourself, to Tom.
When did you know you had to write this book?
>> Judy Reeves: when I came back for all of
those years before I wrote it because it didn't get published till 30
years after the event. But I was writing
bits and pieces and memories and a little this and a little of
that and some very bad poetry,
and just, using it for fiction.
And I was in the middle of
a novel and the book just said, okay,
now, now is now'the time. And
I can't say all of the other time was
preparation for how I wanted to say it. And even when I
was writing it, I didn't know how, excuse me, how I wanted
to say it. I didn't know what its shape would be. I thought it
was a spiritual quest.
I thought it was, you know, searching for
home. I didn't know what it was and I
didn't know that Tom would be so much a part of
it, but he was just present all the
time.
>> Jeniffer: I felt like there was this interesting pacing
in the book of how much you share
with us, the reader about Tom.
And it picks up throughout the book like it starts a little
slower.
>> Jeniffer: Was that on purpose? Did that come to be
later? It really worked. It was incredibly
effective in terms of feeling the
grief and coming to terms with the
loss. So talk about that writing
process. And it maybe just happened naturally and you didn't have to change
a thing.
But I'm curious about the pacing.
>> Judy Reeves: That I'm gonna.
You know, when you're writing a book, you don't
necessarily know how it's going to come together. You
have an idea, you think, you think, you think. And things
show up and then they go. And then at some point,
you have to be able to step back from it
and look at it as a thing.
And so that's when. Not by myself
necessarily. I had a bunch of people reading this and
working with me to edit it. but it just felt
like the pace of when I had to
leave the trip, when I had to
leave the travel and come back, coincided with the
pace of his. The suddenness of his
death. Because even though he was
diagnosed only six months before he died, which
isn't very long at all,
he was still participating so fully in
life. and so his death
just seemed like that sudden. And so that was what. The
pacing happened, I think. Like, you know,
it's funny, I can't remember exactly now
when they were conscious choices and when it was
intuitive, knowing.
>> Jeniffer: Yeah, yeah. And I feel like that's a lot about
what writing is, is. You don't even realize it.
You said something, and I wish I'd written this down
so I could repeat it verbatim, but something along
the lines of, you know, part of the magic and the beauty of
writing is as you're doing. It's like, where is this coming
from? It's. It's this mystical thing that comes
from somewhere inside of you. But does it?
>> Judy Reeves: Well, you're a writer. You know these things too, right? You've
experienced them. It is magic. I don't
know. I believe in. I believe
in magic. I believe in the
muses. I believe that you can be influenced
by what you read. and I think
they'the trust that you have to
finally have in yourself.
I'm writing a novel now, and I'm thinking that novel
too much. So the writing isn't happening
like I'm used to, because I'm
thinking too much and. Oh, planning this and thinking about
that. M. But I like it so much
when you just open the notebook, pick up the
pen. The first words I wrote,
this was a memory. And it just started
coming like that.
>> Jeniffer: And there it was. Yeah, that's a great line.
>> Jeniffer: Nothing is scarier than the blank
page. Writing is risky. This was
pulled directly from this book and I wrote it down. I was like, oh, my God, that
is so true.
But I find that, like, that first line comes
pretty easily. So really the scary part is, like, the
third blank page
where Is this going right?
>> Judy Reeves: Yeah, yeah. But, a lot of people
in, you know, I do a lot of writing practice groups and
a lot of people will, will be reading their work
afterwards because we always invite them to read their work afterwards and they'll get
to a point and say, I don't know where that came from.
>> Jeniffer: Yeah.
>> Judy Reeves: And it's true. We don't know where it comes from.
>> Judy Reeves: And so to continue to, I call it,
surrender to the page every time.
>> Jeniffer: That's beautiful.
>> Judy Reeves: Just give yourself over and know
that you're not necessarily gonna be in charge. And the more you try
to be in charge, the more you hold
that intuitive, that
magic stuff, the more you hold that back. Or for me, that's
my experience anyway.
>> Jeniffer: Totally.
>> Judy Reeves: Yeah.
>> Jeniffer: Well, in having the courage to keep going, even though it's scary and
risky and all those things, it's maybe the hardest
part for me anyway.
>> Judy Reeves: It, you know, sometimes the hand starts and I can
tell because I can look at my handwriting and it starts getting
smaller and tighter. You know, when I get like to those
places and I notice that I'm not breathing.
>> Jeniffer: Oh, wow. Yeah.
>> Judy Reeves: Yeah. So I have a physical kind of, reaction
to the. Where is this gonna go? I don't know.
I'm not in control anymore.
>> Jeniffer: Yeah.
>> Judy Reeves: Until you just say, okay, I'm not in control anymore.
>> Jeniffer: I just got shivers. Wait a minute, you're handwriting all
this. I know, right?
>> Judy Reeves: I think. Yeah.
>> Jeniffer: And then you go back and type it or do you have someone else type
it?
>> Judy Reeves: so for this book, I did 10
of those spiral bound, loose leaf notebooks,
you know, and as 199,000
words. Some of them
are good, not all them,
many of themus. The book is I think, 92,000
words. and then, so, yeah, so I
typ. So I handwrite it all and then I go through
and as I keyboard, as I key it in,
I edit or. I'm starting to use
dictation more, you know, with Word and also
Scrivener. I can use dictation on both of
those. And the dictation is
learning my way. And so
it's. Yeah, it's working. But
the thing is, is when I when I
do the dictation, when I speak, I don't write
as well.
>> Jeniffer: Yeah, I was just talking to our last
guest who we had on the premise about this
very thing. Often I'll go on walks
and I think, oh, the story is like
unfolding in my head and I want to capture it. So I chat's like, well,
why don't you just speak it into your phone? I was like, that's. It
does not work.
>> Jeniffer: It just all of a sudden I stumble and I question it and it doesn't
sound right. I listen to it. So I guess
it begs the question, is it really not that great in my head?
And I just think it is. Or is it
really just like a different muscle, you know,
dictating?
>> Judy Reeves: Yeah, it's. Some
people are so eloquent, you know, you've had so
many people and spoken to so many people and or they can
just get up and do that.
But I can't do that. I have
an editor that gets between that
and yes, I don't speak as well as I write for
writing.
>> Jeniffer: Yeah, yeah, yeah, well, and we all have our
own process.
>> Judy Reeves: Right.
>> Jeniffer: And some people write by hand with a pen or a pencil.
>> Jeniffer: I can't write.
I have to do it on a typewriter. It just isn't the same
process for me. And I like short stories or,
you know, I'll read it again later. And I think it's because I'm
constantly rewriting the sentence.
>> Jeniffer: And I'm rewriting it and rewriting it, so by the time, you know, I look
at it, like it's polished. But when, when I'm writing with
a pen, it's like just nonsense. And I'm like, well, that
is terrible. What
in the world happened there? So, yeah, it's like, you know,
I think we get accustomed to, you know, our practice in
a way.
>> Judy Reeves: Yeah. And I don't know if it's because I
started writing, writing stories and so
on when I was just with my big chief tablet and my.
>> Jeniffer: Yeah.
>> Judy Reeves: Remember those big thick pencils? Yeah.
Kind of flat. Yeah. And so I'm writing the stories
and maybe that's, you know, maybe it got into my
body at that time. And so it's like a muscle memory
that that's how you write.
>> Jeniffer: I think that's part of it. Yeah. Well, they say
that you learn better when you actually
write with your hand in a pen. And I do. When
I'm trying to learn something, if I write it down, I
remember it more effectively. For sure.
I want to hear about your first writing group. It's my understanding
that you were 11 years old.
>> Judy Reeves: Oh, that. Yes. That
story in my tree house.
In the backyard, in the tree house, there's
something, I don't know if. Does it happen to all kids
or girls at like 10, 11, 12
years old? You like to get scared of Things,
I don't know. You like to scare yourself, maybe to
convince yourself that you did not do that.
So I was heavy end of
vampires at
11 years old. And,
I don't know. I don't. I have no idea where that came
from, but. So there I was, writing that first Three buckets of
blood was the name of the name of the
story. Three buckets of.
>> Jeniffer: That is fantastic.
>> Judy Reeves: And I don't know, we lived in this old
farmhouse in this little town outside St. Joe, Missouri.
Then, there was a chicken house. And so the
vampires were somehow in the chicken house. Of course,
there were all the chickens. Of course. I don't know. I don't even
remember the story. But I do remember the
imagining of the vampires and the
chicken house.
>> Jeniffer: That is awesome. But you
also write that you and your sister would, like, get together with
your notebooks and then write and then read each
other their stories.
>> Judy Reeves: And my friend Betty Barnes. more than my sister. Yeah,
the three of us. Yeah. So my first book club or writing
group was with my friend Betty Barnes.
>> Jeniffer: So you've been facilitating writing groups since you were
11?
>> Judy Reeves: Yeah, was.
>> Jeniffer: So you're like, I
was absolutely meant to do this. You didn't really have a choice.
>> Judy Reeves: It doesn't seem there's something for me
about writing in groups.
>> Jeniffer: Yeah.
>> Judy Reeves: And, I wrote about this in the last,
lively muse that I sent out about the coffee shop
effect and the idea
that, if I go to be in a writing group, I
have set my intention, and if there are other people there,
there's a kind of energy that happens.
and you don't even have to talk about it, but there's a kind of
energy and
creating a space that
holds that energy within that group.
And, once again, you know, we just have
to go to say it's magic, because who knows why or
how.
>> Jeniffer: Absolutely.
>> Judy Reeves: Yeah.
>> Jeniffer: One of the things you also. I think I actually read this on
your website, that every city you go to, when you travel,
you seek out three places.
>> Judy Reeves: An independent bookstore, the
library, and what will become my home
cafe.
>> Jeniffer: Right.
>> Judy Reeves: Yes, Right.
>> Jeniffer: Which I love.
>> Judy Reeves: I was just in San McGill, the Aliente for the writing
conference there, and I did that.
the Aurora Bookstore. I went to the Biblioeca.
And also it was called
Kok K I B O K, which
means good smell in
some indigenous language. I'm
not sure which one it is. Aztec or whichever one it is. And I
went there four days in a row. And you go.
And then they say, oh, hi, you want your Americano
Yeah. Americano today. Hot or cold.
>> Jeniffer: You were becoming a local.
>> Judy Reeves: Yeah, that's lovely.
>> Jeniffer: I love writing in coffee shops. I think there is a magic
to it.
>> Jeniffer: That's interesting.
>> Judy Reeves: Yeah.
>> Jeniffer: I always felt like maybe it was like the
solitude of being away from all the things in my house that
call me to do them, you know, do the dishes, fullold of
laundry. But there's no choice in a coffee shop you
can just sit and write. Yeah, but there's more to it than that is.
>> Judy Reeves: There is. And I think it has to do with the other people who
are there. They're also doing things
and many of them doing creative things. A lot of them
are where I go. A lot of them are
students, you know, doing their student work. But
there are also people who come in and they're doing
video things on their computers. There's just all kinds of
creative energy and in fact, well,
I have just witnessed you and your tea, how you make your
tea and what you brew up. And there's a certain creativity
to making the coffee, you know, and it's
the same kind of everything about it, you know, the way they're
decorated. Not all of them because some of them as
we know are you know,
chain and they all look the same. And so you can feel safe
wherever you go there because it's always the same thing. But the local
people and what they do like leats. When we
go on Thursdays in order to go upstairs where we meet,
we open a sarcophagus, an
Egyptian model of a
sarcophagus door, up the stairs we go and
there are all kinds of chandeliers and
sarcophagus. Sky
sarcopha.
>> Jeniffer: That's awesome.
Well first of all, why do you go to Listatz every Thursday?
>> Judy Reeves: My Thursday writers S group meets there.
>> Jeniffer: Okay.
>> Judy Reeves: Every Thursday at 5:30.
>> Jeniffer: Which Leatsz is that?
>> Judy Reeves: in Hillcrest.
>> Jeniffer: O. Okay. Okay. I've been to. There's many
list stats In San Diego.
>> Judy Reeves: 3.
>> Jeniffer: But I haven't been to the one in Hillcrest. I didn't know there wasn't upstairs.
>> Judy Reeves: There is.
>> Jeniffer: And you can like rent the space or. That's really cool.
>> Judy Reeves: We do San Diego writers inces. pays a.
I'm John Hustler who's the owner and all of the baristas
are just so supportive of local creative people.
>> Jeniffer: Yeah, I think, yeah, that's true of coffee shops. That's probably why
you seek them out.
One of my questions was do you like to research it
in advance or do you like to stumble upon the yes.
>> Judy Reeves: It's a stumbling yes.
>> Jeniffer: Yes, I know you. I knew that was going to be your answer.
And that's kind of like, you know, when I was reading this
book, I felt like I was
absolutely there in the present. On your
journey. There's a curiosity to your
writing, like you're discovering it for the
first time. And I am, as a reader. And I thought,
how does she do this? And then I
wondered, is most of the book from journals?
Because I don't know how you remember such
details or if you are able to just
transport yourself back through the writing.
Both, both.
>> Judy Reeves: But for this particular book, I did keep
journals all the time I was traveling because I was traveling
aloneus I was
traveling alone and the journal was my companion. It's
who I talked to. And so I kept
them all along.
And I kept them for some reason for all those 30
years. I still have them.
>> Jeniffer: Awesome.
>> Judy Reeves: and I don't usually keep all of my journals, but when I'm on a
special trip or some special event, then I'll keep the
journals. And the way
I settle myself into the
writing is to give physical
details of where I am, what the light is, or the
music, or what I'm drinking or who else is there.
Yeah, yeah.
>> Jeniffer: The descriptions were so beautiful. Like there was a rainstorm
in Amsterdam.
>> Jeniffer: That was just incredible. I read it a couple times because
I was so taken with the description. In
fact, I noted a couple places
in the book that the writing I just thought was so
beautiful. Do you mind if I read them?
>> Judy Reeves: I love to hear other people read my work.
>> Jeniffer: I was gonna say, is it weird that I'm reading them? Because I could have handed you
the book and it made you read them.
>> Judy Reeves: But no, no. I won.
>> Jeniffer: Mykonos is blue. Blue like the ink from
my pen and deeper, rich royal
blue and deeper yet deep navy of the
deepest waters of the Aegean.
did m I say that right? Aegean indigo. And
then lighter and white, bright
clean white with no shades of yellow, not a hint
of gray. Sugar cube houses. Oh my God, I
loved that so much. Describing them as sugar sugar
cube houses was just like, for me, kind of
gleeful. I read it again. I was like, I. This is so
good. Sugar cube houses
stacked cube upon cube climbebd the
mountainsides cleaving to the angles of hills
that echo the rounded mounds atop churches
whose domes are sometimes sometimes stained la
pie, sometimes blood red, sometimes left white to
gleam pure and bright in the island
sun.
>> Judy Reeves: Let's go there. I want to go there'totally.
There.
>> Jeniffer: You Bring me to these places I've never
been. And I thought, how does
she do that? But you describe it when you're
there. But also, like, talk to us as a writing
coach and someone who teaches writing. Like,
talk about the process of bringing yourself back into a
space. So effectively, if you hadn't
written in your journal.
>> Judy Reeves: finding a detail. And for me,
that detail. And when I think of Myonos all,
blue. I mean, when I think of Greece, it is a lot
of blue because of. Yeah. And
so finding a detail that you can
hang yourself on. and then
slow, way down, right
in present tense. Because when you write in present tense,
you're back there again. If I wrote in past tense, I'm
distanced from it. But here I
am. Like I started that piece
that started the whole book. This is a memory. Not
this. This is what I remember, but this is a
memory. And then it. So the
details are so important. I write a thousand words to
get a hundred words. Because, I want
concrete, specific details. I want to
have at least, you know, in every paragraph. I think it's
Flannery or Connor says in every paragraph, use three of the five
senses. That's a lot if your
paragraph'only like two sentences.
But to take a sensory inventory.
This is what I smell, this is what I hear, this is
what I taste. Sometimes I like, rub my
fingers together, close my eyes and rub my fingers together
to feel something. And
I feel it like I can feel the sand.
I can feel my mat. You know, you can buy those mats
on the beaches in Greece. And you buy those mats and
they're kind of rough straw kinds of things.
And when I close my eyes and go like this, I can feel
that mat and feel it on my body
and then go to the body and what is the body
sensing then? Slow,
slow down, go deeper. Thats what I keep saying.
Slow down. Theres no
hurrye.
>> Jeniffer: Yeah.
>> Judy Reeves: Even in an action scene, you know, when, in
these really intense action scenes often in movies
they'll do slow motion. Its like that.
It's more intense. M. So
that's what I do and why it takes me
199,000 words to get
92,000 words.
>> Jeniffer: Oh, I'm sure I'm the same.
>> Judy Reeves: Yeah.
>> Jeniffer: It's interesting to me how like you can smell something
and it transports you back to that
moment.
>> Judy Reeves: I think smell more than any of them.
Here's my theory is totally
unscientific. It's lizard brain.
Like when we were early on in our
development as living sentinet Beings. That's
how we found our food and how we knew our way around
was by smell. And so
that becomes m goes directly
to the lizard brain. Yeah, I know these things, but
yeah, smell is. And it's an
intimate sense too, isn't it?
>> Jeniffer: Totally. Yeah.
>> Judy Reeves: Inside your body. Yeah.
>> Jeniffer: When I was writing my memoir, I was
trying to, like, put myself back
in a time. And so I called my mom and I said I was
writing about my dad who had passed. And I said, what
deodorant did dad wear? And she told
me and I went and bought it. Yes. And I thought for sure
that was justnna, like, bring me back. And it
really didn't. I was like, I kept smiling it and I'm like,
nope, not. It's just. I don't know if I was forcing it
or what, but it just didn't work. But I was in a writing
class. So now we have two sticks of deodorant that
we do the house'just never going to get used that I can't part
with'because you never know because I'm not gonna wear it.
That's weird. It would be weird if you smell like my
dad. I appreciate you not wearing that deodorant, but I
can't seem to part with it. It's weird. It's like this weird thing, but someday
it's gonna be useful.
But anyway, back to smell. So I was in this writing class
and the facilitator wanted us
to smell something. So we were blindfolded so we
didn't know what the color of the thing we were smelling was.
And then we were supposed to write something,
whatever came to mind. And I wrote this
story of being five years old. And I
remember sitting on the earth in the sun
and watching my mom work in the garden. And I was picking
carrots out of the earth m and eating them.
And so I told this whole story of this memory.
And then she went around the room and she asked everyone,
okay, what did you smell? And I
said, beets. I was
convinced.
>> Judy Reeves: Say it again. Bees.
>> Jeniffer: Beets. Be E E T S. Oh, but.
>> Judy Reeves: You were eating carrots.
>> Jeniffer: But in the story, I was eating carrots, but in my
mind I smelled beets.
I guess what it was carrot
juice. It's like, really?
>> Judy Reeves: That's what she had your smelling?
>> Jeniffer: She had a smelling carrot juice. But like, I was just
absolutely convinced I smelled beets. But the
story I that it brought to mind
was if eating carrots. And I was like, wow, the mind is really
powerful. We second guess ourselves.
>> Judy Reeves: Don't we, we do, don't we?
>> Jeniffer: We think we know it all, but we really don't know anything.
>> Judy Reeves: We know nothing.
Oh, that's why we have to trust the pen, because
it's going to tell us. Like, I bet that was a wonderful, beautiful
story. And it sounds like such a sweet memory
when you tell it.
>> Jeniffer: It was a sweet memory and I had forgotten it.
>> Jeniffer: Yeah. And you know, there are times when
I've been writing when I'm really, I'm like, I have no idea
what happened. I have no like bits and
pieces. And at one point I
called my mom and I read her this piece and I said, I don't
remember exactly, like, but I just want to read this to you. And
she said, yeah, that's exactly what happened. I'm like, wow,
really? Because I thought I made it up.
And that's one of the things I do as a technique. And what I'm trying to
remember is just make it up. Just write whatever comes to
mind. And then pretty soon as my pen is moving
or the keys are tapping in my case,
all of a sudden it's wait, oh no, this is how it happened. And it
does come to be. It works its
way through, I think.
>> Judy Reeves: Yeah, the memory and how that all works.
I mean, we have to keep going back to that magic, don't we?
>> Jeniffer: Because, yeah.
>> Judy Reeves: I mean, I know that there are certain things that can be explained
of how memories hook together and why
as we get older, those
connectors get thinner or whatever happens
that the synapse don't synap anymore.
>> Jeniffer: Exactly.
>> Judy Reeves: Yeah. So
there's some kind of a physical thing as
well as the magic thing?
>> Jeniffer: Yeah, I mean, I'm fascinated by neuroscience, but I don't
understand any of it. Yeah, but yeah, it's fascinating.
I want to go back to your
book, when your heart says go
and I want to talk about the grief
because for me like writing about grief
must be so 30 years later too.
Did it bring you back to. I mean, did you
transport yourself back to that grief? A, was it
difficult? And B, was it
a way to process it more fully?
I wasn't needed.
>> Judy Reeves: I.
It was grieving still.
And again, it was like layered
grieving. And because I could go back
and had such strong memories
of particular instances,
###m Tom was a
voice artist. He was a voiceover guy and
he did commercials and you know that. In fact that's how we met.
I hired him to do some work
for me and so I have ah,
tapes of his. I have cassette Tapes of
his voice.
>> Jeniffer: Oh, wow.
>> Judy Reeves: Still.
>> Jeniffer: So you could hear them.
>> Judy Reeves: I can hear. I can hear them. I almost don't need to because
I can, you know, certain things I can just
hear. So I
would sometimes be
absolutely beside myself with
grieving again. Just allowing myself to go
back into it. Because I think
it'a good thing.
>> Judy Reeves: I think it'a good thing to feel grief.
I think it opens our hearts in ways
that need to
happen. To experience
again.
What a gift for me to be able to love that deeply, that all
these years later. And I know it. I'm not the only
one this happens to that I can still
feel the loss and also feel
the. To me, that's kind of how the grief
works. It'a sadness, but it's
also a joy in a way to
relive that love. I wouldn't be grieving this much
if hadn't loved that openly. Right.
So, So it came to me in different
layers like that. And it's really hard to separate
what was when.
>> Jeniffer: Whether this particular feeling of grief as you're
writing it now is new or did it exist then?
>> Judy Reeves: Yeah, I think it.
>> Jeniffer: That's interesting.
>> Judy Reeves: It's just. Yeah. Carries on.
>> Jeniffer: Well, I said before, there's like a sweetness in it. And I've always
been really.
I shy away from reading books about loss and,
and grief and cancer and you know, that
to me I'm like, I don't want to be sad.
Right. So I avoid them. but to me that
my favorite parts of the book is when we went back to
Tom M. And those moments when you're
losing him in the hospital were
so beautiful and so sweet. There
was, I felt, healing in the
writing of your experience. You know, in your writing of
your experience. So it was very interesting. It changed
my mind about reading books about grief.
And I think there is something really
important about it that we face it with. The
curiosity that you've
exhibited within every word of this
book.
>> Judy Reeves: I'm, What every writer wants is for someone to
say how
they were there present with you when they were
reading what you wrote. So thank you for
that. Thank you.
>> Jeniffer: Oh yeah. You're welcome. Thank
you.
One of the things that you said was,
you know, figuring out who Judy is. And part of this comes
from Alcoholics Anonymous. Sobriety
plays a really big part in this book and
in your life. And you, I
guess in aa people name each other,
right? So writer Judy.
>> Judy Reeves: Y.
>> Jeniffer: So you. I think you were Nice Judy.
>> Judy Reeves: Nice Judy, as opposed to crazy Judy. Cause there was a
Crazy Judy.
>> Jeniffer: There you already. She was already you're like, I
wanted to be crazy. I don't wa want toa be nice Judy.
>> Judy Reeves: I don't wa want toa be nice Judy.
>> Jeniffer: Who wants to be Nice Judy?
>> Judy Reeves: Nobody.
>> Jeniffer: and I totally laugh. It's that
Midwestern niceness that we've all.
>> Judy Reeves: Heard so much about.
>> Jeniffer: That's right. Chad's been running from it his whole life,
the Midwestern boy that he is. but you said, you know,
I want to be known as Writer Judy
before I'm dead Judy.
>> Judy Reeves: Oh, I said that?
>> Jeniffer: You said that. And I was like, yeah, yeah. You
know, who am I and how do people define me? And
do you feel like you've. You've accomplished
that?
>> Judy Reeves: Yes, I. Excuse me. I do feel
like people because my community is
so, writerly oriented. I think
that people do identify
me that way. As writer. As Writer
Judy. Unfortunately, I'm afraid
I'm also getting this name as
Busy Judy.
>> Jeniffer: Really?
>> Judy Reeves: Yeah.
>> Jeniffer: Because you're always busy or you're a busy bodyy.
>> Judy Reeves: Busy Judy. I don't want to be busy. I don't want to be known
as Busy Judy.
>> Jeniffer: Too busy to have coffee?
>> Judy Reeves: Yeah. So I just had a text from a friend this morning. Said, I
know when you. We were just together in San Miguel. She says,
I know that when you're here, you just get so
busy. And I understand that.
New Year's. I said, okay, I'm not gonna be Busy Judy
anymore.
>> Jeniffer: Damn. It's just. You can't run away
from Busy Judy. I think it's like it's
life. I think
the world moves so quickly
and there's so many ways to communicate, whether
it's social media or email or phone or text or AM
Or m. Whatever. Yelling.
There's so many ways to communicate and there's so many touch
points that we are in this.
This loop that it's going too fast
and I don't know how to slow it down. And part of it is
aging. I have a theory about it. Okay. That as
we age, we have more information
in our head.
>> Jeniffer: And we're literally heavier in terms
of the mass of our brain, the amount of mass
in our brain. Chad's laughing at me because he likes to
do things scientifically, whereas I like to just make shit up.
But I just feel like there's so much.
You're with me. I know you are. There's so
much information in our head that we're just. We're moving
faster because we just weigh more.
Chad. That doesn't make any
sense? You don't think so? Okay, Judy, does that make sense to you?
Like when we're children we're learning, right?
>> Jeniffer: We're learning and we're sponges and it like
there's so much more space in our
brains and a year takes
forever.
>> Judy Reeves: Yes. I'm six and a half.
Right? We never say I I'm six or I'm seven.
It'I'm six and a half.
>> Jeniffer: Quarter y. We count the days.
Yeah, exactly. And now it's like, you know,
now it's more. In decades I've seen my fiftiesah.
Yeah.
>> Judy Reeves: And. And so the image that I have and this
kind of goes back to those filaments connecting things.
I think we have so much information. This is a lot of why
we. It's I can't remember things
is you remember that movie we saw and it
was that guy and he was also in that movie. So it was s like
these filing cabinets that we're pulling out. That's why we're
heavy.
It's heavy because our filing cabinets full of stuff.
>> Jeniffer: Exactly.
>> Judy Reeves: It's so ye. Yeah.
So. And
also I'm an extrovert and so
I love to be with people and so I make up things that we can
do together and
I love it. So I'd bring it on myself.
>> Jeniffer: Right.
>> Judy Reeves: Busy, Judy.
>> Jeniffer: Because if you weren't busy that'd be very boring and you'd find something just.
>> Judy Reeves: Oh, what if I a weren't so busy that I could like.
Judy, I would love
that.
>> Jeniffer: Oh my God. I want. I want lazy days more
than I can even begin to describe.
Well, let's just talk about this journey. I mean you
gave. You sold your condo
and you went on what was to be a year long journey
by yourself.
>> Jeniffer: Why?
I mean I know why because I've read the book. But
tell us like why was that so
important? Why did you suddenly know that's what you needed to
do?
>> Judy Reeves: I have always loved traveling. My
father, I wrote about it in the book how he opened up
his world atlas and we sat side by side and he
told me and he was wanted to
be. He wasn't. Didn't get to be the traveler that he. I know he would have loved
to be. So I always had that curiosity
that came early on and
I.
I don't know why. I had heard about it around the
world airline ticket when I was in. I think
I was in a meeting someplace and somebody was a
travele. And I didn't know those things existed.
And that's interesting. Around the world airline
ticket. And I don't know, it just came to me that
that's what I should do. And I trusted that.
I had traveled, by myself before. I worked for an
organization called Project Concern International. And I
went to developing countries,
Bolivia and Guatemala and Bali and places like
this. And so I wasn't
afraid necessarily of traveling by
myself. And remember, this is in the days before cell
phones, before all of that connection ca. Becausee
this is 1990 when I made that trip. 1990. 19.
Yeah, 1991. And
so, so everything was slower
then. And you
could take a train to wherever you wanted to go and you
could just get off and say, okay, where am I goingna stay?
I don't know. Here's a guy who can tell me things. And the
travel books. And I started reading travel books
early, early on and had,
you know, some heroes who were travel writers,
memoir and travel writing. that. Yeah,
I want to do that.
>> Jeniffer: There were some moments in the book where
it was a little scary.
>> Judy Reeves: Yeah.
>> Jeniffer: Because you come into this foreign place where you don't
necessarily speak the language or like they don't necessarily
speak English and you have to figure
out where you're going to stay that night and then trust that someone's going to
get you there. And at one point that didn't happen for
you. You were essentially abandoned in a dark.
>> Judy Reeves: Road at like midnight.
>> Jeniffer: You want to tell us that story?
>> Judy Reeves: The cab driver. People yell at you in Greece.
They just yell in Athens particularly, or that was
my experience, they ah, yell. And so he picked
me up at the, where I came in at Piraeus or
wherever it was I came in, I don't remember. And I
told him the hotel. And you would think that, that
taxi drivers would know the streets. I had the
hotel dress. You would think he would know it. But in the
Plaka, in Athens, it's
ancient. Ancient. And maybe this guy, I
don't know, maybe it was his first day on the job or something, but
he was getting tired of driving around, driving around. And of course
it's dark and I don't know where I am because I'm a
visitor here, I'm a tourist. and so
he just finally put me out.
Yeah, yeah, get out. We're done. It's down there. He
pointed.
>> Jeniffer: And was it, was it actually down there?
>> Judy Reeves: There was a light. Yeah, sounds
like there was a light. Distance.
>> Jeniffer: come to me.
>> Judy Reeves: Yeah, there was a light. And I thought, I'm gonna go to the light.
I mean, what else would you, what are you gonna do? Yeah. So
I went to the light and it was a cafe
and she was just opening and I got a coffee and
I could find out from her where the hotel was. It
wasn't far, it was in the general area.
But it was, it was scary.
The other thing, in those days, traveling around Europe,
every country had different money too.
Yeah, it'true and so you had to change your money all the
time too. And I'm terrible with math and
I didn't have a phone with a calculator on it with
a translator to do that like I have now.
Yeah, there were some challenges.
>> Jeniffer: Well. And one of the things that, you know, was happening in this
book is there's a war starting.
>> Judy Reeves: Yes.
>> Jeniffer: You know, in 1991 we went to war.
>> Judy Reeves: Yes, we did.
>> Jeniffer: And that definitely affected your trip.
>> Judy Reeves: I came home a little early because of that I had to leave.
Yeah.
>> Jeniffer: And there's this moment where you're not
able to get a flight out. Flights are all being
canceled. I think you're in Delhi or near somewhere
in India.
>> Judy Reeves: Yes, I was in India. I was in Goa.
>> Jeniffer: And strangers that. There were
so many moments of kindness from strangers
in this book that I thought was so
beautiful. But there was a complete stranger in
line when the person at the, the
counter, the airline said, we only take cash, you know,
their currency or
I forget what the other item was. It was American dollars.
>> Judy Reeves: American dollars or, or
drachma.
>> Jeniffer: Okay. Yeah. And you didn't have enough money.
>> Judy Reeves: Right.
>> Jeniffer: And the guy behind you was like, I'll do, I'll cover
her.
>> Judy Reeves: Patrick. I can't say his last name.
>> Jeniffer: His name was Patrick.
>> Judy Reeves: His name was Patrick.
>> Jeniffer: Did you stay in touch with him?
>> Judy Reeves: No, never saw him again after we left, after we
parted in the Bombay airport.
>> Jeniffer: And of course you paid him back once you got to. Ye.
>> Judy Reeves: Yeaheah.
>> Jeniffer: Yeah. But like that, I was like, wow,
that was pretty cool. But those happened, those moments happened
a couple times.
>> Judy Reeves: Yeah.
I like people and maybe I trust too
much sometimes and get taken
advantage of sometimes. But I don't wanna change that
part of me, that trusting part. And
I'm friendly. M a woman. One
time in Spain, she says, you're an American. I said, how'd you know I'm
American? I could be Dutch, I could be German, I could be anything.
Look at me. And she says, because you're smiling.
>> Jeniffer: Oh, well that's interesting.
>> Judy Reeves: Yeah. Not the ugly American after all, the smiling
American.
>> Jeniffer: Right.
>> Judy Reeves: Busy Judy walking around with a big smile on her
face.
>> Jeniffer: Writer, busy Writer smiling.
Judy. There are a couple
moments in the book this thingpt kept happening,
happening to you. Three
different men, strangers,
Judy, walking along, minding your own
business. And in three different
places in the world, three different men
walked up to you and like whispered to
you. The one of them was in Rome. He said,
remember me from 20 years ago? And then he just walked
off, right?
>> Judy Reeves: Yeah, he just kept walking.
>> Jeniffer: I was like, okay, that was weird. But then it happened again
in the. Dubrovnik.
>> Judy Reeves: Yeah, Dubrovnik.
>> Jeniffer: Do you know this song? And he hummed it to
you?
>> Judy Reeves: Yeah. Larura Sog from Cho.
>> Jeniffer: Yeah. And then there was a third one with a
man in India. He said, you are my
mother'sister contact. And then he walked away.
>> Judy Reeves: Yeah.
>> Jeniffer: What do you make of all that, man?
>> Judy Reeves: What are you gonna say?
>> Jeniffer: I mean, maybe. Or they were all secret
agents. I mean, I was like.
Or I believe in magic. Or at least they wanted you to
think that. I. I just think there's a little bit of like
mystical something in those moments
where they were called to say these things to you
for some reason.
>> Judy Reeves: Well, clearly the guy intoubrovnik would like
to have let's go have a drink or something. You know,
he was singing and we kept walking together, but
the other guys. Yeah. Just passed me by, so.
Passed me by. Yeah.
>> Jeniffer: Like that was the moment.
>> Judy Reeves: Yeah.
>> Jeniffer: I wonder,
There were several times where you were
offered opportunities to have sex or to have
intimacy with men. And I remember every
single time I was like, oh, I wonder if she's
like, is this gonna happen with this guy? Right. Like, I just kept
like waiting for the time.
But it didn't. You were, you did not.
>> Judy Reeves: That's not why you celebrate that whole time.
>> Jeniffer: Yeah.
>> Judy Reeves: Which is unusual for me, I have to say.
I mean, really.
>> Jeniffer: Yeah, I just like. And
I don't know if you wrote it like that, but, you know, it definitely created
this like, tension. This. A little bit of tension, you
know? and they were very sweet moments in
the.
>> Judy Reeves: And I had many fantasies, you know.
>> Jeniffer: Righteah.
yes, you were dreaming and your dreams were
very interesting throughout this whole journey.
A lot of times I felt like your dreams were telling you
that you needed to take back your
independence and your power.
>> Judy Reeves: Particularly that one I had in
Paris. about
that guy who I was having that off and on affair with
before I left San Diego. and
he inviting him to go on a driving trip with
me. And, I guess it wasn't in Paris, but
whenever it was. Yeah. And I knew that If
I invited him to go on that trip with me, that he
would be driving, and I wanted to
drive. That one still stands out to m me. It
happened in, It was in Greece, actually. I remember it
now.
>> Jeniffer: I. I was in Paris, too. Caus you told Amy about it?
>> Judy Reeves: Or maybe that was another dream. Was another dream, yeah.
>> Jeniffer: Where you realized. Well, Amy said to
you, Well, that's a clear message. Yeah.
>> Judy Reeves: Thank you, Amy. Yeah.
>> Jeniffer: Where is Amy? Does she live in San Diego?
>> Judy Reeves: She lives in Oakland.
>> Jeniffer: Okay.
>> Judy Reeves: And, she, is just doing
so it. So proud of her. She's just doing
wonderful. You know, she was a performer all
her life. I mean, she came out of the womb going, ta da.
>> Jeniffer: Well, and everyone. Just so you know, dear listeners,
Amy is Judy's daughter.
>> Judy Reeves: Yes, she is my beautiful daughter. I also have a
son, Chris. But, so Amy. Yeah,
so she did comedy and stand
up and all of those things for years and years. And then it's
like, I guess I better get a job. So she became a cop
and then a detective.
>> Jeniffer: Wow.
>> Judy Reeves: Yeah. as she says, I had a captive
audience finally. And now
she's retired from doing that and now she's,
being. Doing creative work again. I'm just so
happy for her.
>> Jeniffer: No, that's wonderful.
>> Judy Reeves: Yeah, we get to do projects together. It's fun.
>> Jeniffer: Very cool. Yeah, I love that. You know, she
joined you in Paris. I spent a little bit of time with you.
>> Judy Reeves: That was very sweet. Yeah.
>> Jeniffer: What was your favorite part about diving
back 30 years and writing this book?
>> Judy Reeves: I think it. Well, it was
certainly some of the places, but, I
think the interactions with people.
The interactions with people, those interactions with the
strangers who were so kind. But just
also, if I. The thing about
being, a member of the 12 step organization
is that no matter where I went in the world, except
Yugoslavia, I could. And I could find a
meeting and I could go there and I would be with people.
Like, be with my own kind, if you will. And
so, so I met so many people that
way. And in a way, that was why it was safe for
me to travel by myself, too. Because wherever I
went, connection, I had
connections. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You just go to a meeting and say, I'm
Judy and I'm an alcoholic. And they say, welcome.
You know, even if you don't speak the language, you can still feel
it. So it was a lot of those
connections with people who I made.
>> Jeniffer: Before reading this book, I didn't realize that Alcoholics
Anonymous was an international program.
>> Judy Reeves: Yeah. Powerful. Good
work. Like what we did when we went to this. What was then the Soviet
Union.
>> Jeniffer: I was just going to ask if you wanted to talk about that.
>> Judy Reeves: Yeah. That some of the people. I meant
there. and that was organized. I didn't just go there
by myself. That was an organized. That was the only organized
thing that I did, while I was traveling. And it was
done by a group called, the
cassw Creating a Sober World, which
was part of the US USSR Cooperative that was
existing at that time in San Francisco. And my friend Camille
worked for casw, and she
was going on this trip. And so when I made my
plans to leave, and I knew she was doing it in November
and I left in July, I made sure that that
would be part of my plans to go and do that.
And, you know, it's like wherever you
go, you can find your own people, Whatever
your connection. I mean, whatever the human connection is.
For us at that time, it happened to be. We were all,
you know, in this shipwreck together.
>> Jeniffer: Right, right.
>> Judy Reeves: Yeah.
>> Jeniffer: I mean, one of. Well, I would say maybe your superpower
is finding and creating community.
>> Judy Reeves: my favorite thing to do.
>> Jeniffer: Yeah. And that's how I met you. I met you when
Riters Inc. Was downtown.
>> Judy Reeves: Yep.
>> Jeniffer: In that small little building before you moved to
Liberty Station. It was like an arts building, I.
>> Judy Reeves: Think, when we were downtown.
Oh, it was, the art. What was I called? Art
Center Building in the East Village.
>> Jeniffer: Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's when. That's when
I first met ye.
>> Judy Reeves: Yeah. On'm 13th Street. I think it's our center
loft. Yeah, I think.
>> Jeniffer: Yeah, that's right. Reading your
epilogue in this
book brought tears to my
eyes. It was such a beautiful ending,
you know, and we don't want to give away the ending of the book, but
we're gonna do it anyway.
>> Judy Reeves: I came home, you came home.
>> Jeniffer: She came home, folks. And I mean, you found
yourself like. So this is a journey to finding, you
know, searching for you, which you found,
I think, beautifully in the book. And
then you're at home and you're in a
bathtub relaxing. And then
it was like a lightning bolt struck
you. Tell us about that moment.
>> Judy Reeves: I was just trying to get my bones
warm. So I was soaking in that bathtub.
I had a candle lit beside me. wasn't
sure what. Now I'm here. Now what?
I was still kind of wallowing around in
the now whatness. And
the idea came just like that
to open a writing center. And the
candle fell off the side of the bathtub. Into the tub.
Literally. I don't know how that
happened, but it did. I jumped out of the tub, wrapped
myself up, and I got my journal and I started writing
five pages of. This is what we're going to do. This is how it will
be. This is how the furniture will be arranged.
>> Jeniffer: Wow. Wow. Down to that detail.
>> Judy Reeves: Yeeah.
>> Jeniffer: This is how we're going to pay for.
>> Judy Reeves: No, I didn't. That part I didn't know.
>> Jeniffer: But you did. You said you. Grants.
>> Judy Reeves: We'd get grants, we'd pay, have classes and groups and
workshops and people would come.
>> Jeniffer: And they did.
>> Judy Reeves: And they did.
>> Jeniffer: And they're still coming.
>> Judy Reeves: And they are.
>> Jeniffer: That's really cool.
So recently the mayor of San Diego
named. What day is it? March.
I should have remembered the date. It's Judy Reeves Day in San
Diego.
>> Judy Reeves: Yeah, it was a July day. it was a July something or
another. It was. It was the day that I, resigned as
executive director of San Diego Writers, Inc. July
24th.
>> Jeniffer: O.
>> Judy Reeves: Thank you. Yeah.
>> Jeniffer: It's Judy Reeves day in San Diego.
>> Judy Reeves: I'll remind everybody.
>> Jeniffer: That's so cool.
>> Judy Reeves: But it is't. It's not the kind of Judy Reeves day where
it's perpetual. It was only that
day.
>> Jeniffer: Oh, really?
>> Judy Reeves: Yeah. They don't.
>> Jeniffer: Only in 2010.
>> Judy Reeves: Yeah.
>> Jeniffer: I. To change that, I think I'm gonna like, write a letter to the
mayor's office. We want July
24th to be Judy.
>> Judy Reeves: Re Day every year.
>> Jeniffer: I mean, every year.
>> Judy Reeves: Every day.
>> Jeniffer: It is every day too. Yes.
>> Judy Reeves: Yes.
>> Jeniffer: Well, that was pretty cool.
>> Judy Reeves: Yeah, that was pretty cool. There were some
people responsible for that.
>> Jeniffer: I had a feeling.
>> Judy Reeves: Yeah. Some of my co
conspirators with San Diego Writers, Inc.
had to do with that.
>> Jeniffer: Why do you think writing communities are so important to
you?
>> Judy Reeves: I don't know if I would do any writing if I didn't have a writing
community. I mean, look at me from
like way back in the day in my treehouse with my friend
Betddy Barnes and my sister. you know, let's do this
together. It's a communal act
for me. I mean, that's why that second book was
Writing Alone. Writing together.
>> Jeniffer: That's what I was just gonna mention. Yeaheah.
Tell us about that book a little bit. Writing Alone. Writing
Together.
>> Judy Reeves: Well, it, After I wrote a Writer's book of days, which
was the first day, the first book, that one just
seemed to want to be the next one because I had been
doing, At that time it was the writing center. So there have been
two nonprofit organizations the writing center was the first one,
and then San Diego Writers, Inc. With a little bit of a break in
between those. But. But I had been doing
groups. I just saw what was
happening when people came together in writing
groups, whether they were instructing, on the craft or whether
they were reading critique groups or generative groups like our drop in
writing practice groups, whether they were readings,
whether they, you know, you brought in some big
name teacher to teach you or whether it was
a peer led. I just saw
how. So, how
groups can engender creativity that might
not happen if we'on our own. and so
that's why I wanted to write that book. And so that book is
about, you can start a reading critique group or you can do a
writing practice. So it'kind of an instructive book on how to
do the different kinds of groups and the advantages
of each one of them.
>> Jeniffer: And you don't have to rely on a professional to create it for you. You can do it
yourself in your treeouse when you'eleven yeah, Kids
are doing.
>> Judy Reeves: It all the time. I see them everywhere. You do too,
right? Yeah. We get together and we make
stuff up. We pretend
we do.
>> Jeniffer: And I think we need more of that as adults. Right. We lose
that.
>> Judy Reeves: Do you ever have game night with your friends? Do you guys have
game night where you play games, like board games,
Old.
>> Jeniffer: we play games occasionally.
>> Judy Reeves: Well, I mean, I don't want to pry in your personal life.
>> Jeniffer: Well, it's funny you say it. sometimes personal things come up about
our marriage. I love games.
Board games, card games. I don't care. And Chad, I don't
know what it is. He doesn't like him. So I'm always like, we should have
game night. And he's like, absolutely not.
>> Judy Reeves: You could come out, come. We could do game night.
>> Jeniffer: He's not a game night person, but I do with my friends.
So the guys will sit and talk about music
or whatever they're talking about, and then the ladies will sit
at the table and play games. And one of my favorite
games is called Toss the Pigs.
>> Judy Reeves: Toss the pig.
>> Jeniffer: I think it's called Toss the Pigs. It's. So there's these
two little pink pigs, and their feet are in,
like, different positions. So. And then you toss
them. And then however they land
determines your points. And you want them to kind of
land on their snouts. Because if they land on their snouts, that's 10
points.
>> Judy Reeves: O.
>> Jeniffer: If they land on their side, that's a certain
and everything, you know, and it's very competitive and it's very
fun.
>> Judy Reeves: Isn't there silliness and isn't it. It's fun.
>> Jeniffer: Fun to laugh.
>> Judy Reeves: Oh, we have to do that. That's how you
breathe deeply, is by laughing.
>> Jeniffer: Absolutely. That's one of my favorite parts of the book too, is like you're
thinking about Camille and your friends back home
and how much do they make you laugh
and the silliness that comes out with being with those people. I mean,
that's what good friendship is about.
>> Judy Reeves: Oh yes. And there's nothing
like a group of women maybe
throwing pigs around the table. I don't know. Whatever
they do with that is just so
rich and warm and the
best time.
>> Jeniffer: Agreed.
>> Judy Reeves: Yeah.
>> Jeniffer: Well, one of these days we're gonna have to play toss the pigs.
>> Judy Reeves: I would love to toss a pig or two with you.
>> Jeniffer: We're gonna make it happen.
>> Judy Reeves: Okay.
>> Jeniffer: Before we close and I just want to say thank you so
much for coming here today and being with us.
>> Judy Reeves: Oh, it's my pleasure.
>> Jeniffer: And for writing this beautiful book,
dear listeners. It's so beautifully written.
Like you'll get swept away, into the
travel experience, into
just really leaning into
yourself and allowing things,
the curiosity in your writing,
allowing the world to happen around you and being willing
to lean into that. Like it's such a beautiful
reminder of how we really should live our
lives. Right. So I hope everyone
will curious.
>> Judy Reeves: I think that's one of the things that keeps us young is that
curiosity. Right?
>> Jeniffer: Indeed.
>> Judy Reeves: When was the first. When was the last time you saw something or
learn something for the first time?
>> Jeniffer: Probably yesterday. Yeah, I'm constantly
learning new things. Chad and I recently started doing
the New York Times crossword puzzle. And
so I'm constantly like, oh yeah. I'm like,
I didn't know that. I'm like, that is great.
So I think puzzles and games, they do.
>> Judy Reeves: They help us.
>> Jeniffer: Learn and not
become so stuck in our ways to be open to new.
>> Judy Reeves: Things and being playful.
>> Jeniffer: Being playful, absolutely. I was always intimidated by
crosswords because frankly, I was really bad at them.
And then I thought, you know what? I'm justn toa start. And then I realized that
there's really a, there's a
way to do crosswords and you
just move on t until you find something, you know, and then you like,
concentrate on that area and then things start to fill in
and then you have to think about the clues differently
and it's really fun. I've been really enjoying it. I.
>> Judy Reeves: Exciting.
>> Jeniffer: I'm good at it. But
apparently Mondays is like the easy crossword and Sundays
is the difficult. So it gets progressively harder throughout the
week. So one night I couldn't sleep. Chad was asleep in bed, and
I decided to try the crossword puzzle and I completed
it and I was like, oh, my God. I was
proud myself. Yeah, Yeah. I wanted to wake him up and tell him,
but I told him the next day and then he was like, yeah, I'm pretty sure Monday's the
easy day.
>> Jeniffer: But he's right. And then I love doing the
Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday. No, you weren't like, mean about it.
Yeah, I know, right? Chad's a good guy, everyone. I want you to know he's
very supportive. I don't even know where it was
going with this. I'm rambling now, but I just
wanted to say thank you for writing this beautiful book
and I'm really excited about your novel. We'll definitely have you
back. So get that written.
>> Judy Reeves: Get busy, Judy.
>> Jeniffer: Pressure.
>> Judy Reeves: Get busy writing.
>> Jeniffer: Busy Judy.
>> Judy Reeves: Get busy writing.
>> Jeniffer: You do that a lot in your book too, where you callback.
And I like that. I like that very much.
I just want to know what
you would like to say to our listeners about writing. Because most of the people
listening to this podcast are writers. They're
readers too. But, you know, I think they want to be writers. They want to get their
workout into the world. What advice do you have for us?
>> Judy Reeves: Right.
>> Jeniffer: Yeah, yeah.
>> Judy Reeves: And I think writing without
writing without a plan, this is not a
product. You know, maybe it will become a product, but it's
a process. And so what do you
want know? Just look outside the window and write what you
notice today. Just start using
words and whether you wanted. Yeah,
yeah. Whether you do it with a pen or like I do
every morning, first thing I start writing, or whether you
do tap, tap on the computer. Any
way that you wanna do it, just start. And
you know, Natalie Goldberg was so good. She says just start with.
I remember. Because you're never
gonna not have something to write about if you go. I
remember. I also like to just start with a
physical, sensory detail.
M. Yeah.
>> Jeniffer: I love that. When you were talking about closing your eyes and rubbing
your fingers together and feeling.
>> Jeniffer: Texture. That's really powerful. Inn Take
that one. Thank you. Yeah.
>> Judy Reeves: Just do a sensory inventory. Right now I
feel right now I smell. But
the thing is, and I know this from
experience, someday I
will have the time to write, and that's not
gonna happen. You have to take the time to write. You have to make
the time to write. And if you don't do that, it won't happen.
>> Jeniffer: It's true.
>> Judy Reeves: Yeah. Yeah. So get in a group. That's always
fun. There's so many opportunities. If not in person,
you could do it online.
>> Jeniffer: Yeah. Yeah. Well, thank you.
Thank.
>> Judy Reeves: Yeah. Thank you.
>> Jeniffer: And thank you so much for being here today.
>> Judy Reeves: This is so much fun. It'good I knew it was gonna be
fun to talk to you. I knew that we would go on and on and on.
And we could probably go on and on.
>> Jeniffer: I asked Judy, do you have a hard stop? And she said, I can be here till 4. I'm like, great.
We're gonna talk for four hours. I will not bore our listeners
at all. You can learn more about
Judy,
@judyeveswriter.com.
follow her on Facebook at Judy Reeves 2.
That's T O O o and Instagram
at jarghte. And also
check out our substack the Lively Muse,
which is, full of all kinds of wonderful tidbits
and advice as well. This has been another
episode of the Premise. You can visit us
online@, theemisepod.com and subscribe
and rate or review the Premise. Wherever you get your
podcasts, these interviews are here
for you. We appreciate you listeners and we really
appreciate your reviews and your ratings. It
helps get the word out about the Premise. You can also follow
me, your host, on Instagram
jennifergrace, where you can follow me on Facebook.
Jennifer Thomon Consulting. Until next
time, thanks for listening.
Goodbye. Goodbye.
>> Judy Reeves: Goodbye.