Note: This transcript was AI-generated and has not been edited for errors. [Dan Hope] Welcome into Real Pod Wednesdays. I'm Dan Hope, joined by Andy Anders, fresh off of our trip to State College, where Ohio State earned its first marquee victory of the season, a 2013 win over the then number three ranked team in the country, Penn State. Ohio State, now the number three team in the AP poll, but the number two team in the CFP rankings. So the Buckeyes looking like now they're once again in very good shape in terms of making the college football playoff back very much in control of their own destiny in terms of a Big Ten championship and really just back to good vibes in Columbus, Andy. I mean, it felt like the past three weeks, you know, we talked about it last week, that that game was really going to define Ohio State's season. And if Ohio State lost that game, it could have been a pretty dark mood here on this week's episode of Real Pod Wednesdays, but the Buckeyes proving they could go win a tough game with physicality in the fourth quarter. And now it just feels like the vibes are back up in Columbus and things are good again for Ohio State football. [Andy Anders] Right. And Ryan Day afterward called it a crossroads game. I think that was well put. This was a game that we talked about it before, you know, Ohio State needed to win this just to keep the momentum behind the team and the program right now. I mean, you could have gone out and beat Michigan in a few weeks. It would have raised the spirits a little of Buckeye fans, I'm sure. But to already have had your Big Ten title ambitions completely derailed this at this point in the season and basically have a whole November where you're playing Big Ten games and you're hoping to backdoor into the CFP, it's like you were going to lose all the juice behind the program. You were questioning going into this game, of course, Ryan Day, two and six against top five opponents before Saturday. And could he win this type of game? And it was also the way that Ohio State won this game, right? The physicality, the toughness, knocked down, got back up. It wasn't perfect. Obviously, Will Howard threw the pick six, fumbled the ball out of the end zone, mistakes were made. But the team fought hard and found a way to win. And for a program whose toughness, emotion, motivation, character has been questioned under Ryan Day, it was just the fact that they were able to respond to all the hits that were taken and ultimately win the game with defense and running the football. Man, I was calling for more passes going into this game and how foolish I look in hindsight. The offensive line came together, got the ground game going and that final drive, I think, just had to be pure ecstasy for some Ohio State fans. [Dan Hope] Well, if anyone looks foolish in hindsight, it's me because I picked Ohio State to lose. So, you know, I think I'm the one who deserves more of the criticism for this. But, you know, you went into last week's game and we said it. I mean, we both agreed we didn't know if Ohio State's offensive line was good enough for the Buckeyes to win that game. And they proved they were. And that final drive in particular, like you said, to run the ball 10 straight times, get four first downs and run out the clock, you know, that was the kind of statement that Ohio State's offensive line needed to make. And to have two guys who were playing positions they had never played before at the collegiate level, Donovan Jackson making his first career start at left tackle, Carson Hinsman making his first career start at left guard. You gotta give those guys so much credit for how much they stepped up. I mean, it was a far from perfect game for Donovan Jackson. I mean, the PFF grade wasn't great. He gave up two sacks. But he was still named an offensive player of the game along with Carson Hinsman, Seth McLaughlin, and Josh Fryer for a reason. The stats tell the story of themselves in terms of Ohio State, you know, running for over 170 yards in that game versus running for 64 yards the week before. But it just felt different. It felt against Nebraska with Zen Mahalsky in there at left tackle. It just felt like the vibes weren't good. It just felt like, you know, Zen Mahalsky was really struggling at that left tackle spot, and it felt like his struggles kind of just leaked out to the rest of the offensive line. Where this week, it just felt like a confident unit from start to finish in that game, even when they had a bad play. It just felt like they really kept in the fight, and they kept battling the whole game, and it just seemed like a far more cohesive unit up front. And it feels now like, okay, Ohio State has found a lineup that it can work with going forward for the rest of the season, assuming that there are no more injuries. There are certainly things that they have to work on that they have to get better at, but you feel a lot better about what we saw from this lineup up front against Penn State than what we had seen the week before against Nebraska. And I think that's reflected in the fact that Ryan Day on Tuesday said, you know, we're going to stick with what we have. They feel like now they have a lineup that they can go forward with and that they can build upon. [Andy Anders] Right. You said confidence. I think more than that even, they played like they had something to prove. And this is an offensive line that was under fire all last season. What happened in the Cotton Bowl, all offseason they were criticized, really showed in the first handful of games with Josh Simmons before he went down that they had taken those strides, that they were a unit that could take this team to where it needed to go, that Ohio State could run the football successfully. And then the Simmons injury happens, all those same criticisms, all those same calls to fire Justin Frye, all of it comes back up. Whether it's from the media, whether it's from fans, all of that rises back up through the ranks. And it does beg the question of why Carson Hinton wasn't starting earlier. He was excellent in this game, I thought, especially on the ground. He was always, I think, he always had this ability to maul the dude in front of him. He had that ferocious, just mean streak on the offensive line. Even coming out of high school, kind of had that aura about him. But when you're a center, so much more goes into that job than just blocking the guy in front of you. Snapping the football, not the least of that concern, because snapping and blocking as a whole, if you've ever tried playing center as an offensive line, then it adds a whole other element to what you've got to do. Because the snap is the thing that starts the play, especially when you're almost always out of shotgun or pistol. And you have that, you also have to set the protections and really keep everyone as one on the offensive line. You move him to guard and it's a little more straightforward, like you just take on the guy in front of you. Now, we did get some explanation from Ryan Day on Tuesday as to why Hinsman wasn't really, not just the fact that he wasn't starting at guard before, but that he really seemed to fade from even that consideration, because earlier in the year, pre-season camp, it seemed like he was right in the thick of that right guard competition, Tegra Shibola wins that job. And then when Donovan Jackson gets hurt, the first guy we see at left guard is Austin Searvelt, who then ends up rotating with Tegra at right guard in some games. And so it felt like he wasn't even in that mix. And it seemed to be because when Tegra won the right guard job, and part of that had to do with Carson getting sick during pre-season camp, missed a couple of weeks with illness. When Tegra won that right guard job, it sounded like Ohio State wanted to move him back to center focus on that learning from Seth McLaughlin, both to be the backup this year. And I'd imagine for the future too, right? Like next year, Carson's probably your starting center again. There's a good chance of that even still, I think he's still probably going to be like, he's learned a lot from Seth and he talked about that after the game on Saturday. But those are why considerations, why you saw Austin is what I'm trying to say. You saw Austin in that spot before you saw Carson earlier in the season. Then when this injury happened, you move him back to guard and it gave him time to work things out. I think it also gave you time to work things out with Donovan Jackson of like moving out to tackle was also a big, I mean, that's just such a huge undertaking to slide out to tackle, do that on the road, blocking one of the best edge rushers in the country and Abdul Carter, not perfect. Like you said, gave up two sacks to Carter who was able to really beat him off the edge on speed rushes. And that's something that, you know, when you're moving outside to tackle, it's harder to block those pure speed bodies. You're just not used to that. So that's something Donovan is going to have to build over time. But man, I thought it was a huge plus in the run game to have him at tackle. He was, there were a couple of plays for the couple of times Carter beat him off the edge and pass rush. There was an equal number of times where Donovan was pancaking him 10 yards up the field on a run play. Like that to me shows you the fight that that kid has and just the willingness to step up in that moment. And again, the whole offensive line on Saturday answered the criticism. And this was a theme with them in the off season too. They heard what was being said about them, nodded at it, didn't take it to heart because then you would get down on yourself, but answered it and proved otherwise. So a lot of credit to them and a huge lot of credit to Justin Fry for figuring out this unit and getting it going the way it needed to in this game. [Dan Hope] What's your level of confidence now, maybe on a one to 10 scale that Ohio State's offensive line will be good enough for the rest of the season for the Buckeyes to achieve their goals? [Andy Anders] Yeah, I want to stay cautious with it just because it's one game. There's not a lot of proof in the pudding yet. I would put it at about a seven. They showed a lot. I think the mentality and the glue of that unit, as long as the key pieces stay healthy, that's another element of it too. Someone else gets injured, you keep somersaulting down that line because Simmons is out for the season and it's not like he's coming back to reinforce you at some point if you need that. This is the unit that you've got. If someone else gets hurt, then that's a cascading effect. But Donovan Jackson's got to develop blocking speed off the edge. They can chip him in the passing game to help tight ends, running backs, and by the way, Ohio State's running backs blocking their asses off in that game, I thought. Little side note, but I think need more proof in the pudding. I'd put it at a cautiously optimistic seven, and I think it can definitely grow over the next couple of weeks. [Dan Hope] I'm going to go a little more cautious with you. I'm going to say a five, and that's not necessarily negative, but it's just reality of what you just said. It's only one game. There are still clearly things that they need to work on, and they're still in that position of they're one injury away from potentially being back in a precarious position again. If you asked me last week, I probably would have said it was like a free. They definitely made progress in that game to make me feel better about the chances that Ohio State can achieve all of its goals with this offensive line. I think certainly I feel a lot more confident in the Donovan Jackson at left tackle lineup than I did with Zen Mahalsky, and again, no shade towards Zen Mahalsky, just reality that he didn't play well enough against Nebraska, and the fact that that's really the only game he's really played in his career, there's not really any evidence to suggest that if they had to go back to Zen Mahalsky at left tackle, that he's up to the task of playing that position for Ohio State in college football playoff kind of games. The fact that Ohio State found a way to win, even when things weren't perfect with Donovan Jackson, while going up against one of the better defenses in the country on the road, particularly if Jackson's spending most of the game lined up against one of the best pass rushers in the country against Abdul Carter. Now you've got some time against Purdue Northwestern teams like that to really kind of work through things more before you get back into your next big tests. I think this is a really good building block for this offensive line and certainly something they can build off of. Certainly, I think, reason for Ohio State fans to feel more optimistic, less pessimistic about that position group than everybody felt with good reason a week ago. The other unit, of course, that was in the crosshairs going into that game was the defense, just the defense in general, because of what happened in Ohio State's first big game of the season. Against Oregon, when the defense gave up more than 500 yards, really just struggled to get off the field in general and didn't look anything like a defense that was supposed to be the best defense in the country this year. Well, they did against Penn State. Didn't allow Penn State to score a single offensive touchdown, held the Nittany Lions under 300 yards of offense, just six points on offensive possessions. Penn State scored 13, but the other seven came on a pick six on Will Howard's first pass attempt of a game. Offensive possessions did not lead to any touchdowns. They came close a couple times, but the defense held its ground when it got backed up to the goal line. First time, I mean, when we talk about the plays of the year for this season, if we get to the end of the year, and Ohio State goes on a special run in the postseason, and we're talking about the moments that helped them get there. One of the moments we're going to have to talk about is that interception by Davison Igbenosin late in the first half because that's a play. If Penn State scores a touchdown on that pass, if they take the lead into halftime, who knows where that game goes. For Davison Igbenosin to make that play, stealing the ball away from Harrison Wallace, somehow getting a foot down in the corner of the end zone for a takeaway for the Ohio State defense was huge. Preserved Ohio State's lead, and you look at that seven-point margin at the end of the game, every point was crucial. So I think that is, we're talking about the plays of the year for Ohio State, that is going to be very close to the top from Davison Igbenosin. Then in the fourth quarter, outstanding goal line stand with the game on the line, Ohio State trying to preserve a seven-point lead. Penn State runs a creative play with Tyler Warren that gets them down to the free yard line. Then Penn State runs the ball up the middle three times. Ohio State doesn't have Tyleek Williams in the game, it's best defensive tackle. It stuffs the run three times up the middle, then forces an incompletion on fourth down to preserve the lead, and then the offense goes on that famous final drive, running out the clock from there. And it just seems like this Ohio State defense, it thrives in those situations. It has dating back to last season. And we talk about that bend but don't break defense that we've seen from Jim Knowles dating back to last season. We didn't see that against Oregon. Against Oregon, the defense was just break. Against Penn State, it got back to what really made it an elite unit last year. They did allow some drives, they did allow some first downs. It was not a perfect game by the defense by any means. But when it came down to it in scoring position, this defense consistently made the plays it needed to preserve the lead for Ohio State. [Andy Anders] To me, I thought that final goal line stand was emblematic of a lot of what has made Ohio State's defense successful when it has been the last few years, but particularly on the goal line. I did a bit of a deep dive on some of the goal line success and particularly that series on 11 Warriors this morning. You look at particularly the 3rd down, the 4th down play. The 3rd down play, the defensive line has taken big steps over the course of the year. And to the credit of the depth of that unit, Caden McDonald made a huge play on 3rd down. After Davis and Igbenosin's interception, maybe the second biggest play for Ohio State, at least on defense and maybe just period in this game, was Caden McDonald, 3rd and goal. Penn State goes up the middle again from the 2-yard line. He shoves the center back a yard behind the line of scrimmage, knocks the pulling guard who was motioning from the outside to pull and kick out, knocks him back into the running back and Catron Allen gets stuffed at the 1. The next play, you don't see him in the shot. If you were watching on TV, you really have to watch the replay or listen to Drew Aller's press conference where he talks about that play afterward to pick up on this. But Penn State, you know, I heard Joel Klatt and others have talked after that game about why didn't Penn State go back to Tyler Warren in the goal-to-go situation there? And the answer is they tried to. On that 4th and goal, they ran a pick play, which is goal line bread and butter for like 90% of college football, right? That's like a go-to goal line passing concept. It's a rub route. You run a defender off. You run someone to the flat underneath it, etc. They did that exact play to Tyler Warren. He started in the formation, ran a flat route with Harrison Wallace going up the field and trying to sweep up Davidson Iguinosa and Latham Ransom. But Latham Ransom, being a senior safety, having seen things before, diagnosed it immediately, sprung on to Warren. If Aller had thrown the pass, it would have been picked. He has to go back to his backside in a backup tight end, which Caleb Downs smothered. We've talked all year about how great the safeties have been for Ohio State. It was those two on that final play that made it happen for Ohio State. So it's been a three-level thing. The linebackers did a good job, too, like cleaning up for the defensive line on those running plays before that final 4th and goal throw. It's been a three-level thing for Ohio State's defense in these goal-to-go situations. Give them an inch of grass, and they'll defend at all three levels of the defense. And so what Ohio State did in that final series, I think, was emblematic of a lot of the strides we've seen from the defense, but also that ability to defend, not break, defend whatever they have left to defend. And they've done that this year. They did it last year. They did it against Nebraska. They had a big goal-to-go stop, and even against Oregon. You talked about they broke most of that game. Oregon's final drive, they did hold for a field goal in a goal-to-go situation. So that is a big credit to what this defense has done, and that's big in games if you can take points off the board in goal-to-go situations from offenses. [Dan Hope] It was interesting, I thought, to hear what both Ryan Day and Jim Knowles had to say on Tuesday about the defense's transformation from the Oregon game to the last couple of games because we had heard Ryan Day say after the Oregon game that he had spent the bye week with the defense, working with them on changing up the structure and fixing things. But we didn't really get a lot of details on that until Tuesday, and it was interesting to hear what they had to say because both Day and Knowles indicated that there's been some pretty significant philosophical changes that maybe aren't obvious to those of us just watching the game from afar, but in terms of what they're instructing their players to do and how they're lining things up, there have been some substantial changes since that Oregon game to try to fix the things that didn't go well in that game. [Ryan Day] I mean, it's looked the way that we've wanted it to look. You know, we almost, you know, kind of a goofy word, but like re-engineered the defense. We had to almost start from scratch after the Oregon game. What I mean by that is not like, you know, scrap everything, but like, okay, what are the base foundations of what we're trying to get done? Who are our best players? We've got to put our best players in a position to be successful. What are teams, you know, scheming us up, you know, in terms of what are they looking at? And, you know, you start going through that process and you almost have to kind of knock it down and rebuild it a little bit. Now, you know, to the naked eye, there's probably not a lot out there that you're really noticing, but there's significant things that are going on that I think are giving our guys confidence. I think we're doing a better job of putting our guys in a position to be successful. I think we're getting lined up better. So we've got to keep building on it, though. I mean, there's a lot of football left and we've already put a lot of football on film, so we've got to keep upgrading. And there's that line of, you know, doing what you do well and being able to play really fast and then making sure that you have enough change-ups so guys can't, you know, nail you down. [Jim Knowles] It's just a process of going back to the basics, you know, alignment, you know, things got out of whack in that game somewhat, and you're just trying to give the players every chance to succeed. So for me, it just all goes back to the basics. You know, you can get yourself out of whack sometimes trying to match people up and get everybody in the right places and be perfect. And in that game, or really any game, you know, we realized it's more important just to have guys with their feet set and ready to play when the ball is snapped. So it's really just back to basics. [Andy Anders] I think the retooling of the defense, we have the luxury of having Kyle Jones, who we brought up on the podcast multiple times, discussed with him the scheme of what Ohio State's done, some of the back-end stuff, and a lot of it boils down to coverage and rush, right? And they've been a lot more forthcoming with a few mixes of the fronts, saw some three-down looks in this game, just occasionally against Penn State, but really willing to run stunts and mix things up to change the looks for offensive linemen on the other side of the football. And then in the back end, running more zone coverage with more disguise so that quarterbacks can't know what's coming necessarily. And when Jim Knowles talks about getting back to basics, he doesn't mean necessarily simplifying the defense. What he means is getting back to what made him so successful at Oklahoma State, made him successful in stretches at Ohio State, like last year, the parts of 2022 where he had success. And that's, he always had this ability to change the looks for offenses and never really get the quarterbacks, the opposing quarterback comfortable with knowing what was gonna be the look on a given play, changing things post-snap. And so when he says get back to basics, to me, that's what he means is like, they're doing a lot more to mix up the looks and confuse the offense. And then all you need in football is that split second of uncertainty. And it's enough when you have elite athletes on the field like Ohio State does on the defensive side to get after it, wreak some havoc, get some stops, do those kinds of things. And so they've done a much better job of that when you go back and look at the film over the past couple of weeks since that Oregon game. [Dan Hope] It seems like there's been a big emphasis too on just making sure players are lined up correctly. Because I think we saw it in the Oregon game. There were a lot of times where guys are running around like madmen before the snap. It's like, they didn't know, you know, where they're supposed to be. Oregon gets them confused and then they exploit that. I think, you know, if a lot of this, you know, shift to zone coverage, a lot of it is about, hey, make sure all 11 guys on the defense know where they need to be. Know exactly what their responsibility is. I mean, we heard it from Caleb Downs when I talked to him before the Penn State game about, you know, what do you guys need to do well in this game in order to stop Tyler Warren to stop Penn State? And he said, you know, we gotta win our matchups. Like if everybody does their assignment, we're gonna be successful. It's if, you know, if one, it all it takes is one player to not know their assignment, not execute their assignment, and you can give up a big play. If everybody knows what they're doing and executes their individual assignments, you're gonna be successful. And it seems like particularly in this past game against Penn State, that happened and delivered a great performance for Ohio State. So I'll ask you the same question I did about the offensive line. Coming out of that Penn State game, what's your level of confidence that Ohio State's defense is where it needs to be for the Buckeyes to achieve all their goals? [Andy Anders] Splitting my difference and incorporating the halves into this, I'm gonna say eight and a half out of 10. For me, I think the question I still have is how is it gonna look when you play a team with the weapons that Oregon has or a similar opponent? Because Penn State, like, they're awful at receiver. And take nothing away from what BIA did in this game. Ohio State's cornerbacks, after all the criticism they faced for their performance at Oregon, particularly Denzel Burke, they had two passes defended. Penn State's receivers had three receptions. I mean, they almost broke up or intercepted as many passes as Penn State's receivers actually caught the football. That's a pretty ludicrous number. Only three catches in that game for Penn State. Wide outs were 40-something yards. Exact number escapes me off the top of my head. But the receiving core that Penn State has is nothing compared to what Oregon has. And assuming that's, you know, you get back to the Big Ten title game, 99% likely you're gonna play Oregon again at this point. And in the college football playoff, you're going to see teams like maybe a Texas, like maybe an Alabama that have elite weapons on the outside, and not just one elite weapon, but multiple elite weapons. How does it look in those games? And that's the one hesitation I have because you saw it against Oregon when you have so many ways for that team to space the field and Tez Johnson's doing this and Evan Stewart's doing that. How does it look for Ohio State's defense then? So I have a lot of confidence in the run defense. The run defense is pretty close to a 10 at this point. I think even in the Oregon game, they were decent against the run. Oregon broke off a couple. But now that they're mixing fronts and mixing stunts and doing some different things on the defensive line, I think it's gotten better too against the run. I just have my questions about what happens when they play a team with elite weapons. [Dan Hope] And don't forget about Indiana. They're averaging 10.2 yards per passing attempt. [Andy Anders] This is true. [Dan Hope] So that's going to be a test for Ohio State's defense in a couple weeks as well. But I'm pretty much right there with you. I'll go 8 out of 10 for the defense because of what you said that I think. You know, Oregon is a different level of offense than Penn State. I think, you know, Penn State, you know, they have a fantastic tight end. Ohio State did a great job. And they did give up a couple big plays to Tyler Warren. But, you know, at large, they didn't allow him to make enough plays to truly change the game. They did a good job of keeping those running backs in check. I want to see more sacks from this defensive line, you know, because there was, again, issues in this game of putting pressure on Drew Aller, but not actually finishing the play. So I still want to see more sacks. I want to see them get better at not allowing the QB to take off and run because that was a problem for a third week in a row. And I want to see more takeaways. We had the one spectacular play by Davis and Iguanosa, but we're still not seeing this defense forcing a lot of turnovers against top competition. And so I think, you know, those are three areas that I still think Ohio State needs to improve in. And I think, you know, if it can get there, it can be the best defense in the country. And this can be a defense that can carry Ohio State as far as a national championship. But, you know, still some room to improve, which leaves me at an eight, but certainly you come out of that game feeling like, okay, this is what the Ohio State defense is supposed to look like. You know, we weren't fooled by all the talent. Like this, you know, this defense has all the pieces and I think this is a win that they can really build off of. You know, I think one player on the defense I want to shout out, but we haven't talked about yet is Cody Simon, because I think the last two games in particular, Cody Simon has been phenomenal. He's been just playing some excellent football at that linebacker position. And, you know, frankly, and this was mentioned in the press conference on Tuesday, you know, Sonny Stiles was named a semifinalist for the Buckus Award and, you know, nothing against Sonny. I think Sonny's done a good job. I think he's gotten better and better as the season has progressed and has certainly made an impressive transition from safety to linebacker. But I think Cody Simon is the linebacker who really should be in that conversation. I think with the way he's played, especially the last couple of weeks, I think he's really, you know, cementing himself as a star of this Ohio State defense and one of the best linebackers in the Big Ten. And, you know, he's just made some really huge plays the last couple of weeks that have been crucial to that defense's success. You mentioned Travion Henderson and Quin Sean Judkins earlier. They're blocking. Certainly want to give them a shout out for that as well, because, man, I mean, I mean, these guys are, they're putting guys on the ground. I mean, Travion in particular is a guy that going into the season, I don't think either of us would have considered blocking to be one of Travion's strengths. And he's just improved so much in that area and he's really made impact plays in that area. And I think, you know, for two guys like that who are star players, who are considered, you know, two of the best running backs in the country, sometimes you don't always see those explosive runners like that be the most eager to go, to use one of your favorite terms, stick their face in the fan and go block people. But those two have shown repeatedly, and especially in this past game, that they're willing to go make those blocks. And then Jaden Fielding's another guy too who deserves a shout out, because especially coming out of that Oregon game and, you know, the way that game ended with Ohio State feeling like it needed to gain a certain amount of yards to set up a makeable field goal for Jaden Fielding. You wondered how much Ohio State trusted Jaden Fielding. And then you have the Nebraska game where his only field goal attempt of the game went way right. And it's like, okay, how much can Ohio State really trust this guy to make a big kick when they need them to? And at Penn State, he did it twice. You're playing in one of the most hostile environments in the country. And he went out there and made two huge kicks that were vital to Ohio State winning that game. So certainly a big game for him as well, that I think he can build off of. [Andy Anders] All those are important shout outs, I think, to mention, Dan. For the linebackers, when you're as a linebacker blitzing on a play and you get past this wall of 300 pound men and you get taken off your feet by a running back, Will Howard said it on Tuesday, that's just demoralizing, man. I mean, can you imagine like you get through the line, you think you're going to get a sack and then bam, Travion Henderson just wrecks your whole world. Doing it in the running game too. Travion, obviously Will Howard fumbled the ball out of the end zone on the play, but he had a murderous block that would have led to a touchdown had that ball not been fumbled. And Quinn Sean Judkins on the final first down that Ohio State picks up, a keeper for Howard to the outside, had an awesome seal block to move the chains. And I guess it was the next to last third down. Either way, both running backs, great blocking in this game. Wanted to say with Cody Simon, always has had the makings of a great run defender. Been that again this year, but I appreciate how his pass coverage has improved as the year has gone on. We've seen in some of these games against really good tight ends, like a Tyler Warren, like a Terrence Ferguson at Oregon, both he and Sonny Stiles have pretty much limited those guys underneath. And for one of our biggest criticisms of the defense being earlier in the year against Marshall at Michigan State, quick passes over the middle being an issue. Those two have really answered that call and defended that area of the field well. But in particular, Simon, who I think has had pass coverage issues in the past, has taken that next step and has been a more effective blitzer. Had a sack on Saturday. I really do want to give a lot of credit to Cody Simon and just being the cog of the defense that he's been purported to be. We've addressed this question a lot after big games, Dan. So let's address it again. What's your level of confidence now? Two biggest games probably, two toughest opponents probably of the year behind you, not to dismiss Indiana or Michigan. What is your level of confidence that Ohio State can achieve all of its goals this season? [Dan Hope] I think certainly the first goal I feel confident in with beating Michigan. I mean, honestly, as of a week ago, my confidence was starting to decrease a little bit because it's like you saw them struggle against Nebraska. I think Michigan started to look a little more confident here over the last couple of weeks offensively. I think with that Davis-Warren-Alex-Torji combo, I mean, they're still well below what a team of their standard should be at at quarterback. But I think they've gotten a little bit better there to where it's not like, oh, they're one of the worst quarterback rooms in the FBS. I think they've gotten a little bit better there, found their footing a little bit to where their offense isn't quite as much of a laughingstock as it was earlier in the year. But I think to see Ohio State get back on track, Michigan, again, losing pretty decisively to Oregon at home. You feel good like Ohio State should be able to get back on the right side of a rivalry this year. I mean, the Indiana game is really the game that concerns me more than Michigan because that's a game that is gonna be a bigger test for the defense with what Indiana has done offensively in every game this year. And Ohio State's offense is gonna have to be able to put up more points than it has the last couple of weeks. And so we'll see how that Ohio State-Indiana game ultimately goes. But my feeling right now is I do think that Ohio State will win the remainder of its regular season games. I said it before, I think if Ohio State gets back to Indianapolis, that they can beat Oregon in a rematch. And then if you can beat Oregon, then you've got a chance to beat anybody because Oregon's the number one team in the college football playoff rankings right now. And Ohio State's the number two team in the college football playoff rankings right now. And so I think Ohio State's in a position where they still have just as much of a chance as anybody. I don't necessarily, I'm not gonna sit here and say, oh, I'm super confident that Ohio State's gonna win the national championship because they do still have some areas where they clearly need to improve. But I come out of this game feeling like, okay, like Ohio State was able to clear this hurdle. They've shown they can win games in the fourth quarter against a really good opponent. I feel like this Ohio State team can win the national championship. I'm not gonna sit here and say that Ohio State will win the national championship, but I feel optimistic again that Ohio State can win the national championship. [Andy Anders] I'm in a similar place with you. I think the only thing that gives me hesitation right now about the Michigan game is that's gonna be their national championship, essentially. Michigan's out of the playoff race. Michigan's out of the Big Ten race. They're fighting to make a bowl at this point. So that's gonna be like their national championship game. And so there's gonna be a lot of motivation, a lot of energy charged into this one, but it is at home for Ohio State. I think that's big when you talk about like, it'd be one thing if it were that kind of a setting and you had to go play in the big house, but you get it in the shoe. You are just, I think, a much better team. That's been proven throughout the year. So Michigan's defensive line gives you a little pause with some of these questions and shuffles up front that Ohio State has started to answer. But for me, like if I were giving it out of 10, I'd go like nine out of 10 that they beat Michigan right now. Big Ten, I think it's, for me, I say more likely than not. I like Ohio State in a rematch with Oregon just because it was so close the first time on the road. And I think Ohio State's addressed a lot of the defensive issues that costed in that game. I also don't think Derek Harmon's just gonna rip the ball from Quinn Sean Judkins' grasp again on a play and some of the other stuff that happened in that game. And Ohio State's gonna be very motivated, obviously, to get the get back. For me, I think Ohio State, I'm really confident they beat Michigan. I'm confident they beat Indiana because that's probably the biggest hurdle to clear to get you back. Honestly, no probably about it. That is the biggest hurdle Ohio State has left to clear to get back to the Big Ten title game, is beating Indiana. Not to dismiss the Michigan game, but Indiana's just a much better team. I like them in that rematch with Oregon. And I'm with you on the national title picture. I think they can win a national title. Every team in the country is flawed right now. Earlier in the year, I talked about being in the is anyone good portion of the season. I think we've never really left that portion. Oregon's got flaws still, even at the top of the sport. Georgia, I mean, Carson Beck threw three picks last week. And I think some people might've been surprised to see Ohio State be ahead of them. We're gonna jump into the playoff rankings here in a little bit. Every team is flawed across the country right now. Texas, like take your pick. If a team is undefeated, it's usually because they've had a pretty weak schedule or you have a team like Miami, who's like floundered in half of its games, but just they haven't been like knocked back by that good team yet. So I really think college football in general is just very wide open. It's kind of the perfect first year for the 12 team playoff. We've talked about that before. So Ohio State, I think definitely capable of winning a national title. I'm not gonna say more likely than not, like I did with the Big 10 title, just cause again, so wide open. This team has question marks and flaws like everyone else. But I do think I've gotten back to a point and I'm definitely more confident than I was last week. This team can win the national title. [Dan Hope] I still remember, I would say more likely than not, at least for me, in terms of the Big 10 championship, just because you have to win out. If you lose another game, you're not gonna make the Big 10 championship game. So you have to win out and then you have to beat the number one team in the country, at least as of right now. So for me to say, I think it's more likely than not that Ohio State will, I mean, we're gonna assume they're gonna beat Purdue at Northwestern, even if, you know, Ryan Day does not want us to look past Purdue. I'm very confident they'll beat Purdue at Northwestern. Basically then, you've gotta win three games in a row, Indiana, Michigan, Oregon. None of those are gonna be gimme's. So I'm sitting here saying that I think they will do it. Like I'm predicting that Ohio State will do it just as I did before the season. But I can't personally say that I'd say it's more likely than not, just because none of those games are gimme's. They're all gonna be tough and Ohio State's gonna have to bring its A game three weeks in a row in order to get that done. Don't know if Ohio State needs to bring its A game this week against Purdue. We'll get to that in a few minutes, but getting back to the CFP rankings for a minute. I mean, I personally was surprised that Ohio State was ranked second ahead of Georgia, but I don't disagree with it because you look at it, both of those teams have lost and Ohio State's only loss was to the number one team in the rankings by one point on the road. And so I think Ohio State has a very good case for being number two as it is. That's basically the case that College Football Playoff Selection Committee Chair Ward Manuel made. And I gotta say, Andy, it is weird hearing Ward Manuel talking about Ohio State in terms of a college football playoffs. It's weird to hear Ward Manuel saying lots of nice things about Ohio State because he's the athletic director at Michigan. And I think certainly Ohio State fans have said plenty of not nice things about him, but he had only good things to say about the Buckeyes on Tuesday night. And certainly you have to like where Ohio State sits in these first college football playoff rankings. Now there's always the question of how much do they really matter? And again, the most important thing for Ohio State right now is you just gotta win the games because you know you control your own destiny in the Big Ten Championship race if you win the remainder of your games. At worst, if you win out and win the Big Ten Championship, at worst, you are gonna be the number two seed. Based on the rankings tonight, I think Ohio State has a really good chance of being the number one seed in the CFP if it can win the remainder of its games. That's not guaranteed because those SEC teams are gonna have chances to boost their resume too. I mean, we could even see Georgia jump Ohio State next week because Georgia plays Ole Miss this weekend who is a ranked team, whereas Ohio State playing a 1-7 Purdue team is not going to have the opportunity to bolster its resume. So all of that is subject to change, but the one thing we can say right now is that the college football playoff selection committee has a very favorable view of Ohio State and that's a good position for Ohio State to be in because if it accomplishes its goal and wins out, then we know Ohio State is gonna be, certainly, I mean, if Ohio State wins out, it's a lock for a top two seed and I think would have a very good chance of a number one seed. And I also think, even though this isn't something Ohio State wants to think about right now because the goal is to win that Big Ten title and you have to win out to do that, I do think you can feel really good coming out of these rankings that if Ohio State was to slip up one more time, Ohio State comfortably does still have that mulligan in terms of a college football playoff that this Ohio State team would have to lose two more times to get knocked out of a CFP. [Andy Anders] And not just that one loss being about as good of a loss as you can have as far as losses go, right, at the number one team by a point. Ohio State, I know, Ohio State fans are, they have laser focus on Ohio State and they see the Nebraska game and when Ward Manuel says something like, well, Ohio State was ahead of Georgia because they've been a more consistent team, it's like, what? But Georgia hasn't looked good in a lot of its games against lesser teams, similar to Ohio State. I mean, they beat Kentucky by one frickin' point earlier in the year. Carson Beck threw three interceptions against Florida this weekend and they trailed about at halftime. Like, again, talked about everyone in the country is flawed. Georgia's had more of those, like, head-scratching, almost lost to a team you really shouldn't have lost to games than Ohio State has. And so, like you said, it wouldn't have surprised me to see Georgia at number two just because of the inherent SEC stuff and they do have some impressive wins and they do have a lot of rapport as a team that's won national titles in recent years. But I think when you look at both teams' resumes and even the eye test and the quality of their play consistently across the whole season as a whole picture, Ohio State has the better resume right now. And I don't know who I'd pick on a neutral field to win that game at this moment, but I think it made a lot of sense to rank them ahead of Georgia on Tuesday, just kind of giving, like, wrap-up thoughts on the CFP there. [Dan Hope] Outside of Ohio State's ranking, what stood out most to you when you saw the initial rankings? [Andy Anders] Miami as high as they were, probably just number four. I still think, like, Penn State dropping to six. Maybe there's a couple teams that you can make an argument, even though Miami's undefeated. So that's something that I'll be curious to see exactly how things shape up in the ACC, if the ACC can get more than one team in and how the rest of Miami's season shakes out. I also felt like Indiana should have been higher. I think Indiana, and they got a lot of praise from Ward Manuel on that teleconference, too, when he was talking about just how decisive. I get that it's a strength-of-schedule thing, but undefeated and really has looked like they've played, they haven't been scratching out these wins. I mean, they beat Nebraska 56-7. Like, this is a team that's really put a stamp on most of its victories and won by multiple scores in a lot of settings and looked like a true contender. Now, do want to see, obviously, how they look against Ohio State. And, you know, I think we'll both be picking Ohio State to win that game. But I felt like Indiana, maybe he deserved a little bit higher of a ranking and even BYU in that same vein, who's undefeated in the Big 12. But, you know, I think overall there were a lot of rankings that I agreed with and where teams fell. I thought overall I kind of, I thought it was a good additional ranking. [Dan Hope] Yeah, I don't have a problem with where Miami is ranked at No. 4 as an undefeated team. But I would give Indiana a chance if you put Indiana in a game against Miami right now. I mean, if you look at the average scoring margin of all FBS teams, Indiana leads the entire FBS with a 27.8 points per game margin. So, say what you will about their strength of schedule, Indiana is dominating teams week in and week out. You know, you look at a BYU, I get it a little bit more because they have had some squeakers. But, I mean, Indiana, just the way they're playing, you know, you can't, you can't, especially if you're Kurt Sugdenny, you're coming in at first, you can't control your schedule. You just got to play the teams you play. And so far they have gone in and they have dominated every single team they've played. And so I personally would have ranked Indiana higher. But the fact that they're at least in there in the top eight, you know, I think it makes you feel good that they can lose to Ohio State and still make the CFP. And honestly, I think if they beat Michigan this weekend, I think they're a CFP lock because after Ohio State, the only other team they play is Purdue. And as we'll talk about in a minute, you know, Purdue is not a team that should be a threat to any good team. And so I think, you know, you cannot leave an 11-1 Big Ten team out of a college football playoff. And so I think Indiana, even though they're only eighth, sits in a really good spot right now in terms of getting into the college football playoff. I think the other thing that jumped out to me was seeing Boise State at 12 because we already knew that Boise State was the front runner for that group of five berth. And that's really confirmed now because with Army being the next group of five team in the rankings at 25, you know, as cool as it would be to see Army make the CFP, Army's gonna need Boise State to slip up to have a chance, I think, because there's just too much of a gap between them. And I don't argue with that. I mean, I think if Army can beat Notre Dame, they'd have a chance to make a somewhat of a jump up the rankings. But I do think Boise's the better team. I mean, again, we talk about that one loss. They're in the same position as Ohio State. Their only loss was a road loss at Oregon by one score. And so I'm glad Boise's ranked where it is because I think it should be. And the reason why that jumps out to me is it's been assumed that the group of five team is automatically gonna be the 12 seed. But if Boise State's already 12 and they win out and we know some teams in front of them are gonna lose, there's a very good chance Boise State, if they earn a group of five berth, is not gonna be the 12 seed. There's a good chance they're gonna be ranked higher than the 12 seed. Heck, there's even a chance they could host the first round playoff game. And so that really jumped out to me just seeing how high Boise State was ranked because of the fact that I think you can't just pencil in that group of five team as the number 12 seed anymore. If Boise State can win out and win the Mountain West championship, I think it's very likely they will be higher than the 12 seed based on where they are ranked right now. [Andy Anders] I think we spent a lot of time talking about Penn State and a lot of time talking about the college football playoff because this, contrary to what Ryan Day said this week, you know, not looking, overlooking Purdue, about how they were moving on to this Purdue game right after the Penn State game. Purdue stinks. And I think this is the weakest team Ohio State has played since the non-conference. On track to be the first Big Ten team since Indiana in 2021 to not win a game in conference play. Haven't beaten an FBS school this year. Only win against FCS, Indiana State, earlier in the season. Not a whole lot. They do well. Devin Mockaby is kind of an interesting running back, but outside of that, I mean, you've got, defensively, they don't rank in the top 110 in any of the Big Four statistical categories. You talk about pass defense, run defense, yards allowed, points allowed per game. And head coach is a guy who was a defensive coordinator. That's how he cut his teeth. Like, not a Purdue program that's in a good spot right now or has a team that's very competitive in the Big Ten. So I really expect Ohio State to win this game by a lot. Dan, where do you stand? [Dan Hope] Yeah, just to clarify, I think it's outside the top 100 in the defensive categories. They're outside the top 110 if you just look at total offense, scoring offense, total defense, and scoring defense. They are outside the top 100 in all the statistical categories, but they're 104th in passing defense. Just to give them a slight bit of credit. But yeah, I mean, I just don't think there's anything about this Purdue team that suggests they should have any chance of being competitive this weekend. Yeah, there's the history of the spoiler makers and all that, but the Purdue teams in the past that have upset Ohio State or other highly ranked teams were a lot better than this Purdue team. And that's not even to say that all of them were great teams, but they were a lot better than this Purdue team. This Purdue team is probably going to go one and 11 this season. I think their best chance of getting a Big Ten win was this past weekend against Northwestern, and they lost in overtime. And I think Ryan Day is taking a smart approach to this. I think he is clearly trying to send a message to his players of, hey, we're not going to sleepwalk through this game. You know, we got to keep getting better. You know, we can't just have a letdown after a big win because he's right when he says humility is one week away. I mean, if you lay an egg and you go lose a game, you know, all that goodwill that we talked about, all those good vibes that have been created from that Penn State win, those can all go away real fast. And so he's absolutely taking the right approach with his team of, we got to take Purdue just as seriously as we took Penn State. But on paper, there's no reason to believe that this game should be competitive. I think even if Ohio State plays its B game rather than its A game, it should still win this game in blowout fashion. And I think, you know, really the most important thing for Ohio State in this game and really next week's game against Northwestern too, is you just want to win comfortably. And, you know, ideally you'd like to get those backups some playing time because, you know, these next two weeks are going to be presumably your last opportunities of the year where you can really get, you know, true backups, guys who aren't in the rotation, some reps on the field. But, you know, I think the big thing Ryan Day wants to see too is you talk about these last two weeks, it was a good thing for Ohio State to show that it could win games in crunch time in the fourth quarter. But part of the reason why they had to go win those games in the fourth quarter is because they've had lapses in execution in the first three quarters. And so I think Ryan Day really wants to see his team come out of the gate strong, execute well early in the game, and then ideally they can kind of take their foot off the gas in the second half, try to get their starters out of the game early to keep them rested, keep them healthy for the stretch run and just take care of business in this game. [Andy Anders] I think you hit the nail on the head. That's just the way it is right now. You're in November. You're in survive and advance mode, but Ohio State's going to do more in this game than survive. It should thrive. And I just don't see a scenario where Purdue really challenges Ohio State on Saturday. Maybe there's some hiccups, hinky things happen, whatever. But for me, this just isn't a game you see being close and a chance to get some more chemistry going on the offensive line, rest some starters, get some backup, some experience and things of that nature. So as I'm looking at a score prediction for this game, I think I'm somewhere in the vein of expecting Ohio State to really just come out and dominate in this one, get that juice going, keep the momentum going off that Penn State win because I don't think they're taking this team lightly, although we might be. I do think that message is clear because of what happened against Nebraska a few weeks ago that you just can't take these kinds of games for granted. So for me, I have Ohio State winning this one pretty decisively. Ohio State 56 and Purdue 3. where do you stand on that? [Dan Hope] Yeah, I'm not quite there just because it's always hard to predict a score for a game like this because I'm very confident Ohio State is going to win this game decisively. But how decisively can depend on several factors. One being, you know, how well do they come out of the gates? How clean do they execute over the course of a game? And then the other being, okay, you know, do they keep their foot on the gas pedal for four quarters or do they build a comfortable lead and kind of ease off the gas pedal? So because of the potential letdown factor, because of the fact that I do think we're going to see those backups play a decent amount, at least in the fourth quarter, I'm going to run it back with a score from last year's game. I'm going to go Ohio State 41, Purdue 7. I think this Ohio State team is better than last year's Ohio State team. And I think this Purdue team is worse than last year's team and you're playing at home. So all of those things could easily lead to a score like you are predicting. But just because you have that factor of a very emotional road win last week and as much as you try to drill into it of we're not going to overlook this team, human nature tends to come into play and it can be hard to do that. So because of that, I'm going with a little bit more of a conservative prediction, a non-cover, in my case, of 41-7 Ohio State. [Andy Anders] Before we get out of here too, I did want to just shout out Ohio State's performance. To start the basketball season, both men's and women's had some nice wins. Mainly the men though, kicking off the Jake Deborah era, really strong with a top 20 win against Texas. Texas was down a couple players entering that game, but man, it was a team effort and I think the biggest question coming into the season was how Ohio State was going to shoot the three ball. They go 14 of 28 from downtown in that game and really just a statement win. The thing that stood out to me the most that's sustainable, because you're not going to shoot 50% from three in every game, but that was sustainable was the energy and the pace that Ohio State played with, which had been a big talking point and a big emphasis in terms of Jake Deborah's identity coming into this year. Saw it at the end of last season, but there was an intensity and I thought it showed most on the defensive end of the floor that Ohio State was playing with in these games. Even if guys were getting up in the air on a pump fake or something, they were still extending and contesting shooters. The defense was constantly in your face, just the intensity and the energy that they played with and Ohio State rolled through 10 guys depth wise. Some of that was due to foul trouble with your front court with Aaron Bradshaw and Sean Stewart, but it was also to sustain that pace that they want to play with throughout the season. So, don't think you could have asked for a better start to the Jake Diebler era at Ohio State than Ohio State had. And on the women's side of things too, pretty decisive win over Cleveland State, 104-69, and Jelani Cambridge with a huge debut with 31 points. [Dan Hope] Yeah, I mean, the vibes are good for Ohio State sports in general. I mean, how about the Ohio State men's soccer team won the Big Ten Championship this past weekend, going into the Big Ten Tournament this week as not just the number one seed in the Big Ten Tournament, but the number one ranked team in the country. So, lots of good things happening in Ohio State sports right now. We'll certainly be continuing to follow the football team very closely here over, hopefully, the next two plus months as the Buckeyes look to make a deep run into the college football playoff, and we'll, of course, also be keeping up with the basketball programs as their seasons get going. So, we hope you'll join us again on next week's Real Pod Wednesdays as everything continues for Ohio State football and Ohio State men's in general, and we'll catch you then.