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The San Jo Lo Down is San Jose’s first podcast on working class culture, politics, and life–at work, at home, and at play. SJLD is a show about and for the incredible, diverse, talented, inspiring working people of our communities. Though we’ll have content on local music, politics, art, night life, events, and more, the podcast will feature the lives and perspectives of people like you, without whom San Jose would grind to a halt.
What's good, everyone? My name is Bill Armeleen, host of the Sanjo Lowdown, a podcast about the lives, culture, and politics of the incredibly diverse working class of San Jose and Silicon Valley. To find out more on our show, our crew, or to check out additional episodes and exclusive content, you can go to our website at www.sanjolodown.com. That's www.sanj0l0d0wn.com. And please follow us on Instagram at Sanjo lowdown or at s a n j o underscore l o d o w n for updates and to provide feedback or show ideas.
Armaline:We'd love to hear from you. We'd love to hear from our audience. And with that, let's get to the show and get you the lowdown.
Alberto:He would get there, and he's all, yeah. Well, I'm making an extra, like, hundred g's on top of this. And the district was paying that, and it's we were short counselors. We didn't have buses for fucking
Armaline:That's fucking wild games.
Alberto:Games. And, like, football was a sport that kept a lot of the kids who were wanting to be gang bangers out of the streets.
Armaline:Sorry. How do you get that Spanish? Public education has always been a contested terrain in The United States, where many of the most controversial political debates play out. Think about the firestorm over racial integration that followed the Brown v Board of Ed decision in the nineteen fifties. Think about the heated debates over the education of immigrant populations and over bilingual education in the nineteen nineties or over the DACA program a decade ago or over the education of immigrant populations today as the media fearmongers about migrant caravans and crises at the southern border.
Armaline:Consider the return of book bans and censorship in public schools and universities happening now in states like Texas and Florida. Consider the ongoing heartbreaking debates over gun violence and school shootings in schools that never seem to end. Consider the the current protest movement against the plausible genocide in Gaza in schools and universities across the country. In this episode of the San Jo Lowdown, we talk to public school teachers in San Jose and to the director of the SJSU Institute for Emancipatory Education to discuss their lives, the current state of our public schools, and the potential of public education to improve the lives of working class students, families, and communities. Schools are also one of the places where we learn how to function in a society with other people and learn some of the skills necessary to navigate society.
Armaline:But in addition to content like math, literature, or science, the structure and process of schooling teach us our place, what Gene Anyan called the hidden curriculum of schooling that prepares and socializes some students for the worlds of low wage work and others for highly paid professions in corporate boardrooms. Schools are part of a larger system of social reproduction that, among other things, reproduce the structured inequalities of society. But as critical intellectuals and educators have argued for decades, schools can also be sites where the power relations of society can be challenged and where the very important tools of emancipation are made available to those otherwise denied in an unequal society. In California, all three public university systems, the community college system, the CSU system, the UC system, were free to instate students as part of the master plan for education in the nineteen sixties and seventies. The building of robust public k 12 and university systems in The US was a significant factor behind the height of US economic power and scientific discovery.
Armaline:Think about the space race and moon landing in the mid twentieth century, for example. By the nineteen seventies, institutions of public education had become sites of protests all over the world. After California governor Ronald Reagan temporarily shut down all the UC and CSU campuses over anti Vietnam war protests in 1970, his education advisor at the time, professor Roger Freeman, warned that though offering free, high quality public education to all, quote, we are in danger of producing an educated proletariat, calling it, quote, dynamite, and suggesting that, quote, we have to be selective when we're thinking about who does or does not get opportunities for higher education. Since then, right wing attacks on public educational funding has been an ever present feature of American politics, most recently in the form of privatization and, quote, school choice movements. Even, quote, unquote, progressive states like California, which has the fifth largest economy in the world and in the most is the most populous state in the country, now ranks thirty third in The United States for educational funding per student in k 12 public schools, well below the national average.
Armaline:Today, the cost of higher education continue to skyrocket. In the forty years between 1979 and 02/2019, CSU tuition and fees rose from $500 a year to $7,300 a year, and from $2,200 a year to over $14,000 a year in UCs. Nationwide, there's about $1,700,000,000,000 in student loan debt. Still, public opinion reflects a desire to invest in public education. 63 of adults in The US are in favor of making public universities free.
Armaline:Half of Californians believe that the state does invest enough in education at all levels, and 62% of adults in California think public school teachers aren't making enough money. So I'm really happy to introduce our next guest for today, Alberto Camacho goes by Berto. Welcome, fam.
Alberto:Right on. Thank you all.
Armaline:Really happy to have you. Welcome to the San Jo Lowdown.
Alberto:Yeah. I mean, I'm I'm excited to see what's up and and ground with y'all.
Armaline:Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, like I said, we're we're really happy to have you in the studio. I'm wondering too if you could talk a little bit.
Armaline:And I I really wanna ask you this because, again, you're kind of still a new a new educator. Right? You know, one of the striking things for us and one of the things we're trying to figure out in the podcast is, like, how do working class people manage to survive here? You fill me in? So I'm just wondering if you could talk a little bit about what it's like for for particularly new teachers to try and make it out here as public school teachers.
Armaline:What's that struggle like, and what what really confronts people that are trying to live here doing that job?
Alberto:It's rough. I mean, for for for rent to be and I'm really transparent with my students about it too because they think we got hella fit. They'd be asking for food. I'm like, no. That's a trip.
Alberto:Yo.
Armaline:It's expensive.
Alberto:But I I like, we I get roughly, like, 5 g's, 5 and a half g's a month. And, like, rent is anywhere between 18. Typically, it's, like, a thousand 800 to, like, two bands. Right? That leaves me with, like, three bands to spare.
Alberto:And then I gotta buy groceries, which is another, like, thousand bucks for me, my mom, my dad, and my brother. Then I gotta pay car insurance, which is a grip Mhmm. Especially right now because no one's proven. Mhmm. Then you got bills.
Alberto:Right? You're left with all these miscellaneous bills, and we only get paid once a month. So by the end of the first week, I'm left with, like, anywhere from, like, $800. Yeah. And it's like, oh, well, now I gotta figure out
Armaline:Savings, retirement, put, you know, all the all the rest. Right? Looking out for your future.
Alberto:Yeah. And I'm not financially literate. Like, I don't
Armaline:I'm
Alberto:very unforgiving with my money because I grew up poor. So like, to me, money comes and goes. And if if I'm struggling, I'm struggling. Like, as long as there's rice and beans at home, then I'm chilling. Like, I don't I don't really stress.
Alberto:But it's hard because, you know, you you have social media. You have wanting to break away the the poverty, break away from the poverty because you wanna you you went to school. You you followed the the blueprint. Go to school, get a job, and you're gonna be chilling. And it's like, alright.
Alberto:Cool. I went to school, got a job, and I'm supposed to be chilling.
Armaline:I just don't feel like chilling. Yeah.
Alberto:Yeah. Like, I'm I'm scraping it. Like Yeah. And it's it's like it it's frustrating, but I don't know. Like, I I'm there's part of me is, like, really grateful that I grew up.
Alberto:Like, I don't I'm not greedy with my money. Like, I I don't I don't stress, and I should stress, but I don't. Because at the end of the day, like, like, it's I die. I go six feet under. That money's not coming with.
Alberto:But, like, in terms of surviving in this in the in the valley, as my brother calls it
Armaline:We're gonna have to borrow that shit.
Alberto:It's it's expensive, man. Like, it's it's not right that, you know, a studio is too bad. It's not right that groceries went from $50
Armaline:for
Alberto:for, like, four or five bags to a hundred and $50 for those same four or five bags. Like, it it's not right that we should be scraping, like and pulling fucking seats off of the couch to look for change. It sucks. Like, it's frustrating and it's especially as a teacher, like, we we gotta supply our own shit in the classroom. Mhmm.
Alberto:We have to they charge us for the school lunches. Like, we have
Alberto:to pay
Armaline:Give an example. If you wouldn't mind, give an example of how teachers will have to spend their own money to supplement their classrooms in their work.
Alberto:Yeah. Like markers. Like, they'll give us five markers at the beginning of the year.
Armaline:For the whole year?
Alberto:Yeah. Like, it's four markers. And it's like, alright. Well, here they here they go. And, you know, you you walk with them, you lose them, kids take them, whatever.
Alberto:So we more expo markers are, like, $10. Like, I've spent I've invested a good, like, this year, maybe a good salary, like a good check, monthly check. Like a
Armaline:full monthly check.
Alberto:Yeah. Throughout the year. If it doesn't have to do with with classroom materials, it's like kids staying after school because they don't wanna go home, and they're like, hey, mister c. Can you buy some food?
Armaline:Yeah. Exactly.
Alberto:And I'm like, alright. Cool. Like, I'll drop, you know, anywhere. And I do it out of the bottom of my heart. Like, it's not to
Armaline:Yeah. I mean
Alberto:like, flex it that, oh, yeah.
Armaline:Here I
Alberto:am buying food for these kids. But it's it's like, these fools are hungry. And, like, I'm sure they don't get Chick fil A or the outing to go to In N Out or Olive Garden every now and then. So, yeah, I'll drop a hundred 50, 2 hundred bucks on food for them. And they're grateful.
Alberto:Like, they'll come in the next morning
Armaline:Oh, I'm sure they're grateful. Clean up
Alberto:the room.
Armaline:Yeah. And they're like,
Alberto:mister c, we wiped your desk, and we we swept, and, you know, thank you so much. And I'm like, well, you guys didn't have to do that. And they're like, no. No. No.
Alberto:We're grateful. But, yeah, it's it's you drop anywhere from, like, as a new teacher, you can drop anywhere from, like, three to four g's in your classroom Mhmm. For sure. Whether it's furniture, whether it's it's bringing in your snacks, whether it's books, whether it's paper. Color printing is not available.
Alberto:Right. We have to buy our own color ink and our own color printers. So, yeah, you drop hella feds in a classroom.
Armaline:That's wild. Yeah. And how many how many of your teachers are able to list so this is another thing that we've been hearing from folks is, like, you know, we've interviewed a couple of teachers and talked to folks too that are working in schools that, you know, they wanna live in the school district, right, because they wanna be part of the community where they teach. And I know for you, you're able to live at home with with FAM. But for a lot of these other folks, like, bro, I can't afford to get a place in San Jose.
Armaline:Like, I gotta go all the way down Deep South Side. I gotta go way up in East Bay. I gotta go, you know, and then I commute, you know, x number hours every morning, every every evening. Are you seeing that with your colleagues, with with, folks you went to school with, all that? Like, is that part of that struggle for our teachers?
Alberto:Yeah. I have colleagues who who commute. Like, one commutes in Fremont. But she's, you know, fortunate. Like, she gets to stack her bread and and live at home.
Alberto:Mhmm. And then I have, like, a lot of the there's only very there's very few younger, newer teachers at our campus, and everyone else has been in there at least six plus years with the with the longest serving teacher there being being there for almost thirty two, thirty three. And a lot of, like, the older older teachers became teachers at at the prime time when when Morgan Hill and, and Gilroy were, like, developing. Mhmm. So they were able to buy homes, solid homes for the low, and they're chilling.
Alberto:But for a lot of us younger ones, like, a lot of us are still at home, like, with our folks. And I'm lucky to live on the East Side and and and be able to stay at home with my folks. And so is my other colleague who who was able to stay at home from Fremont. But it's it's a trip. Like like I said, we followed the blue the blueprint, and everything's supposed to be dandy for us.
Armaline:Yeah. No. I'm I feel it.
Alberto:Yeah. So it's it's rough. And a lot of homies who, like, graduated from college, who have wanted to stay here, they've they couldn't because it's so expensive. San Jose is, like, has become so ridiculously expensive that you can only afford to live here. It's almost like a it's a luxury.
Alberto:Like, you got these techies paying $3.04 g's a month just to to rent some fucking shitty bill condo in downtown or, like, some sky rise that
Armaline:Well, ain't that the worst part about it? I mean, not to rant on this for a minute, but, like, I think one of the most fucked up things about this, especially if you're not from here, you don't understand, is, like, these are all purely speculative prices. In other words, the value has nothing to do with the actual value of the actual value of the actual place. Like, if you look, like, you drive down any one of the major streets in, like, Central San Jose, like, the First, Second, Third, Fourth, Fifth, Sixth, except, like, all those major streets are coming from downtown all the way to the North End. You have these huge old houses.
Armaline:And, I mean, these property these properties are any anywhere from, like, 1.5 to $3,500,000 a pop. But these houses are hot fucking garbage. Yeah. I mean, they are literally just falling down around the people that are living in them. Mhmm.
Armaline:Yet they sport this level price. Same with the the the apartment stock. If it's not a brand new luxury, all glass, like they're building everywhere, all fucked up everywhere. Right? You know, super high market rate.
Armaline:Basically, it's an apartment building that's half fallen apart that now they're either fucking over working class people or students trying to pack them in 8,000 people per, per apartment, per room. Right? And so it's like for folks that aren't from here, like, you gotta understand it's not just that they they wild out prices. They wild out prices for garbage. They wild out prices for places that, frankly, people should not be living in some of these places.
Armaline:You know what I'm saying?
Alberto:Yeah. No. It's it's I guess there's I always wonder, like, why are so many places catching on fire? And it's Yeah. That's a real one.
Armaline:Just to just burn down right by Newark Campus. Yeah.
Alberto:I've seen that.
Armaline:I've seen those. Yeah.
Alberto:And it's like, it's insane. I don't like, I don't I don't get it. I don't get why. I just don't I mean, I know why everything's so expensive. Yeah.
Alberto:But it's just that, like, fuck. Like, I'll only be able to have a pad and and just, you know, kick back. Yeah. And I don't I mean, I I went into teaching knowing I was gonna be broke. Like Yeah.
Alberto:That was my brother and sister were like, do something else. Do something else. I was like, no. Like, I ain't tripping. I'm I grew up poor.
Alberto:Like, it is what it is.
Armaline:But you thought you'd be able to live. You know?
Alberto:Yeah. And it's the fact that I can't is frustrating, but it's also, like, I guess in the same time, like, inspiring in a fucked up way. Like Yeah. It it it's another reason I motivate the kids that I work with to, like, grind.
Alberto:Yeah.
Alberto:And it's fucked up that you gotta grind, but you grinding will probably be the reason that the generation after you doesn't have to grind so hard. Yeah. So it's it's it's a blessing and a curse, and it's but I don't know. Whoever's listening and whoever, like, makes these prices, like, be mindful of of the people that are struggling because it's a trip. Yeah.
Armaline:Whoever's listening, your house ain't worth that shit and you know it. Quit fucking with all of us. Absolutely. Greedy asthma. So I'm wondering if you could tell our audience a little bit about what you see is kind of the class and racial dynamics of public education in our region.
Armaline:So, you know, like I said in the the with the previous guest, you know, a lot of folks, especially, aren't from here. Right? They think about California, especially thinking about the Bay Area. And it's like, oh, yo, they're all progressive. Hella left.
Armaline:You feel me? Like, everything's fully integrated. You know what I mean? They're doing all the quote unquote right things. They aren't segregated in the ways they are other parts of the country.
Armaline:And of course, you know, any of us who live here know, like laugh. Right?
Armaline:Because we
Armaline:know that that just isn't the case, frankly. But, not not from my perspective. How would you address that from your perspective? Right? It's like this belief that, you know, everything out here is, fair and progressive and, you know, you don't have those kinds of issues of segregating different kinds of students and, you know, all students have the same opportunities out here.
Alberto:What would
Armaline:you say to that?
Alberto:Yeah. That is, that is not the case. I mean, even with me, like, I went to school in Mountain View, again, like, right before, like, this this wave of displacement hit that that city Mhmm. Because my parents worked over there. So we used
Armaline:Before the wealth attack there, basically.
Alberto:Yeah. And my parents worked over there. We used my sister's address, but I would commute from from the East Side with my parents, five o'clock every day. And in the February to the February, like, we were playing kickball, like, Mexicans versus everyone else. Yeah.
Alberto:We were
Armaline:Mexicans versus the world.
Alberto:We were playing soccer and it was Spanish speakers versus everyone else. And, like, the school tried its best to, like, really integrate us. And there were moments, you know, like in third, second, third grade where where we were, like, really integrated. And then fourth and fifth grade hits, and I don't know what happened either in our brains or what we choose to think or whatever, where we just, like, disbanded. Like, we we would never come together, and and it was it was very interesting to see that dynamic of, like, it going from boys versus girls to to race versus race.
Alberto:And it was as early as as fourth grade. Same thing in middle school. Spanish speakers stuck together, and we didn't associate with Asians or whites, or black students. We we made our own kind of, like, on the, and the same thing in high school, like, in especially at James Lake. Like, it was it was almost like your preppy, like or not even preppy.
Alberto:It was it was your Chicanos who were, like, football players, like, second, third generation Mexican Americans. A lot of them didn't speak Spanish where on one end, they were like the leadership kids, the cheerleaders, the football players, baseball players. And then we had the soccer players who were like the, quote, unquote, paisas. Mhmm. And we were, like, we we were our own thing, listened to Spanish music, playing soccer, speaking Spanish.
Alberto:And then the Asians were with the Asians. The Vietnamese have a really strong community. Mhmm. So they were, like, on their own. Then you have, like, your different subgenres of students.
Alberto:Right? Like, of kids who like, the the cholos were with the homies with the homies. We didn't really have any southsiders at Lick. So it's just a bunch of, like, Northerners playing handball. And it was, like, the the really who would show up in boots
Armaline:and Yeah. Yeah.
Alberto:Their their Mexican clothes, like, their their their violet clothes, were in one group. So we were even within ourselves, we were segregating, and it was it was very it was very different and just normal. Like, you were weird if you were jumping around from group to group trying to bring us together. We didn't like that. We were like, nah.
Alberto:Like, they're on their own. We're on our own. If anything, we come together when we play a sport. But after that, it's like you're with your own people, and it's that's just how it is and what it is.
Armaline:So you know the environment this reminds me of. Right?
Alberto:Yeah. Yeah. It's it's it's segregation.
Armaline:It's it is. Well, prison.
Alberto:Yeah. Right? I mean Exactly.
Armaline:Prison you run, you know, is is forced is forced segregation, fam. Like and just like you said, you're gonna separate not just by race, but also by gang affiliation. Right? So you're not gonna, you know, be housing southerners with northerners, you know, all this. You feel me?
Armaline:Like, so it's it's striking to me that everything you just described is basically describing the environment of our state prisons.
Alberto:And we had SROs still too, and it was like and they weren't even SROs. They were
Armaline:they were So SROs, school resource officer, like police officer at a school. Right?
Alberto:Yeah. Those fools were weren't trained. They were, cops who were making overtime. And we would talk to them because they would try to get us to be cops. And, like, we're, like, so how much are you getting paid?
Alberto:And this fool there was there was this one guy who was already, like he was stretched. Like, he was coming in tired, like, not putting up the bullshit. Yeah. Yeah. And making an extra, like, hundred g's on top of this.
Alberto:And the district was paying that, and it's we were short counselors. We didn't have buses for fucking
Armaline:That's fucking wild, bro.
Alberto:And, like, football was a sport that kept a lot of the kids who were wanting to be gang bangers out of the streets. Mhmm. So for them to to prioritize funding that over the the the safety and the education of a of an at at promise youth is messed up. And it goes to show that the school to prison pipeline is very much alive and very much still within the East Side because you go to other schools and you go to school NVLA or or Palo Alto or Redwood City, they got hella feds, and they don't have to worry about, who's getting what bus and whatnot. They they got it.
Alberto:And over here, it's like, nah. We're gonna prioritize this over that, And that's just what it is.
Armaline:So for those in the audience wondering wondering, the school to prison pipeline refers to, how policies in certain schools, particular, like, in poorer schools and urban environments, some rural environments have, developed in the nineties and early two thousands what were called no tolerance policies on discipline and other kinds of aspects of student behavior. And it also brought in, SROs. It brought in police officers to public schools. And as a result, when you have these no tolerance policies, you know, students make a mistake in a poorer school district, it means they're kicked out of school. And that usually leads them, to have fewer options in terms of how to survive and what to do next.
Armaline:And it deeply increases their chances of being brought in the criminal justice system. And by way of having SROs, what that essentially means is that, let's say you have two kids to get in a fight in a working class district with SROs, and you've got two kids to get in a fight in a rich ass school that doesn't have SROs. The kids who get in a fight where there isn't the SRO is just gonna get an in school disciplinary measure. Right? Like suspension, they may have to have a meeting with principal and their parent, you know, something like that, whatever, some bullshit.
Armaline:But then that student with the SRO just caught a case. Mhmm. Right? Just caught an actual criminal case. And if it's felonious, that could also be a felony that that follows them around for the rest of their life.
Armaline:Mhmm. Right? So, there's lots of studies that have shown over the past couple decades, right, that as a result of those kinds of policies, our poorer kids and our kids of color and a lot of our immigrant community kids have essentially just been funneled in the criminal justice system through those aspects of public schooling. Right?
Alberto:Mhmm.
Armaline:So given all that, fam, I you seem to have an a position also. I wanna ask you, like, what is your view on having SROs in our schools?
Alberto:I mean, I'm totally against it. You know, my brother was a victim of having SROs in his school, and it it it's haunting him. It's haunted him. Not just him. Like, you know, my mom's been in prison with him, not physically, but emotionally and mentally.
Alberto:And and cops on campus is not the way to go. Like, there's like you said, there's been multiple studies done over the last twenty, thirty years that show otherwise that we need to invest in in programs that not only affirm youth of their culture, but other capabilities. Like, what what capitals do they bring in onto school campuses that we can reinforce, uplift, and showcase? Because it's it's we're throwing away a lot of, like, talented youth into the system by having cops who are so quick to just put handcuffs in and throw them in the back of the car, and then that's it. And for a lot of them for a lot of the youth that get caught up that way, that's that's where they're at.
Alberto:Like, they Yeah. Becomes this vicious cycle of of violence. So, yeah, I think and we've we've seen it. Like, we need to invest in those alternative programs that can provide youth with opportunities, and we shouldn't take them away. We shouldn't take those opportunities away from them.
Armaline:Our next guest for today's episode also teaches on the East Side and will help us to understand how schools serving our working class differ from those serving wealthier neighborhoods and families. Would you mind just introducing yourself really quickly to our audience?
Annette:Yeah. So my name is Annette Gonzalez Jones. I actually am an East Side girl, so I know one of the other, educators, have mentioned he's also from the East Side. And so, yeah, I actually, I was born and grew up on McCurry Avenue,
Armaline:so
Annette:kind of off San Antonio and that area and, yeah, Mayfair District. So that's where I'm from. But I did not go to school in the Mayfair District.
Armaline:Oh, where'd you go to school?
Annette:So my family, moved to kind of, like, what was sup was gonna be, like, kind of the new Evergreen area, so kind of off of, like, Clayton
Armaline:Yeah.
Annette:In that area. And, yeah, I mean, it was interesting now, I think, having the knowledge and and the context that I do about, like, just education and community. Like, I think my family at the time was thinking, like, hey. You know, like, they saw the education around in the Mayfair area, and we're, like, we we're hoping for something better. And they saw the way to do that was to have us move.
Annette:And that was kind of the way to, like, better educate. Still in the public school system, but the idea of, like, hey. Like, this school, right, in this different part of San Jose, hopefully, will offer some more opportunity.
Armaline:Where'd you go?
Annette:I went to Robert Sanders as an elementary student and then, eventually made it to Mount Pleasant High School.
Armaline:I'll bet.
Annette:Yeah. So I'm an East Side girl, and then I ended up also teaching in the East Side District. So I'm at Andrew Hill High School right now.
Armaline:And what do you teach?
Annette:English.
Armaline:How long have you been teaching there?
Annette:This is my twentieth year.
Armaline:Nice. Nice. I love it. I love it.
Annette:So yeah.
Armaline:So how would that that's great. Thank you so much. I'm wondering too, like, comparatively. Right? So for folks that are, say, not as familiar about how our city and our region, is segregated by race in in class in many ways, how would you describe the the kinds of students and community members and, again, like, sort of the race and class aspects of the community where you are versus, like, something on the West Side, like maybe like a Saratoga or a Santa Clara or something like that.
Armaline:Just for folks that wouldn't know, how would you how would you make that comparison?
Annette:I think in our area, there there are more obviously, like, people of color Mhmm. For sure. But it's interesting. I think even within that, right, like, when you look at communities on the East Side, we have pockets, right, even of of minority groups. Right?
Armaline:So, like,
Annette:there may be an area, in East San Jose where it's like, okay. This is predominantly, like, a Latino population. But, again, you go a couple blocks, and now you're dealing with a very predominant, like, Vietnamese population, Hmong population. Right? And it just that's where it gets interesting.
Annette:Whereas opposed to when you, I think, go to spaces like Los Gatos or you go to spaces like Saratoga, you you have, like, maybe, again, like, people of color, but I think that's where the class kicks in. So you will have, for example, like, a population of, let's say, you know, Indian families. And and again, like, that is diversity. But it's interesting where the class kicks in, because I think, again, socioeconomically, their income and their access to resources is a very different experience than what Eastside families and communities go through.
Armaline:Absolutely. Absolutely.
Annette:And so, like, those people often have access to, like, jobs and technology and things like that. And that affords them, I think, a lot of opportunity that, again, like, I think working class, families don't have. Right?
Armaline:And to make it even more wild and and and this isn't gonna be news to anyone who kinda understands how public education budgeting works. Right? So, in most states in the country, funding for public education is gonna be based on a number of things, how much percentage funding you get from the state and other kinds of of sources. But one of the main things that's gonna determine, local public educational funding is property taxes. Right?
Armaline:And so the real interesting thing and I picked Saratoga on purpose.
Annette:Mhmm.
Armaline:So, from the Silicon Valley Pain Index this last year, which, you know, I I used to work on, every year with my colleague Scott Myers Lipton at the Human Rights Institute, we looked at the the level of funding at each at many of the schools, also looking at sort of the class level of the of the students there. And so if you compare, for example, Alamaroc Schools out on the East Side. Right? 79% of those students are considered, again, using the language of the state, quote, unquote, economically disadvantaged. Mhmm.
Armaline:And they spend about $17,800 per pupil, at Alum Rock Schools. Whereas in Saratoga, where the students are far wealthier as you just described, even though there there there might be some ethnic and racial diversity, it's not that it's all white folks, but it is definitely much more wealthy folks. You know, Saratoga schools only have 3% economically disadvantaged. However, they spend over $24,000 per pupil compared to the 17 in Alum Rock. And so it's interesting to me, and I think maybe to some of our audience members that, you know, the way that we're we're we're funding schooling almost doubles down on that disparity.
Armaline:Right? Because we're actually spending more money in the schools where students, are less in need and less money in the places where where there is less. Do you have any, comments on that or or or any observations you would make about how, you know, different schools are kinda dealing with different funding levels and what they're able to do with that?
Annette:I think too, like, I was gonna add another layer under there.
Armaline:Go for it. Go for it.
Annette:Add whatever. To add or to think about it just to, like, the amount of money that goes into, for example, like, policing and things like that. Right? And so, like, in in spaces like the East Side, right, like, what is the amount of money that is spent on, like, police force and policing communities of color? And, like, again, how does that reinforce, right, a lot of these, negative ideas, right, around, communities?
Annette:Instead of when you have an area, for example, like Saratoga, Cupertino, these spaces, it's like they have, right, like, community centers that are fully, right, stocked and available, libraries, like, again, that are more accessible. Like, those are things that make it
Armaline:Their parks are better kept up. They're yeah. All of it.
Annette:Yeah. Those resources, like, that has an impact on how people feel about their community, how they feel about themselves. I mean, even in schools. Right? I mean, you see it in students when they're when they say, right, like, well, our school's ghetto.
Annette:And it's like, you know, that hurts. You know? It's like, oh, come on. You know?
Armaline:Like Yeah.
Annette:Like, we we have to own this space, but that becomes difficult when it's like, what they're hearing and what they're seeing reinforces these ideas of, like, well, nothing we do is gonna make a difference. Right? Nothing we do and that's what becomes challenging too. Right?
Armaline:It's almost like the the level at which we're treating the schools and the facilities in the community, they take that on as how they're being valued from the broader community as well. Right?
Annette:Yeah.
Armaline:Yeah. We also sat down with Matteo, a former basketball player bringing innovative teaching to our youngest students and opening doors for young male teachers. Our apologies to our audience. As you can hear, our sound quality is a little different with this interview because it was before we started rolling the dough and getting our new gear. Hopefully, you'll bear with us and enjoy the interview.
Armaline:Tell us your name, where you come from Okay. All all of it. How how would you introduce yourself?
Teo:So, yeah, my name is Theo Ena. I'm a resident of San Jose, Kindergarten Teacher of nineteen years, born and raised in Santa Cruz and
Armaline:No. But cool. What brought you to San Jose?
Teo:You know, my well, my mom originally is from San Jose, so a lot of my family is from here. So, I'm well connected with San Jose even as a kid. But as a basketball player growing up in Santa Cruz, I knew San Jose had a lot of heart and soul. So, this place sort of called me early on to just, go to basketball camps and go to, open gyms and and playgrounds. So when I was in high school, I started coming out to San Jose, just playing at the local playgrounds.
Teo:And that just excited me about San Jose. And then I went to San Jose City College, went out to Cal State Dominguez Hills on a D2 basketball scholarship, and found my way back to Santa Cruz around, I mean, San Jose around 2,002. And I've been here ever since.
Armaline:You know, I would imagine, you know, some folks would say like, ethnic studies in kindergarten, you feel me? Like why aren't you just learning numbers and playing with blocks and things like that? So, you know, for those folks, make the argument for them. Why is it critical even at that early age to have those kinds of curricula?
Teo:Because I think there's different elements of what ethnic studies can look like. And so from kindergarten, a lot of it is built around having empathy. Like if I can expose students to various people, various cultures, various languages, various traditions, and that they start to see that these are interconnected in different ways and that I am not separate from this, but I can connect to this. Last year we had, a lovely lady come in and she made pancit for my my class, which is a Filipino dish. And I had never had it before, but I started to see it speaking back to the Sicilian, as a form of spaghetti.
Teo:I know it's not spaghetti, but
Armaline:there's this,
Teo:but it's long noodles and the noodles there have a value and and and establish, fortune and wealth and so forth, depending on the length of the the noodle. But when my kids were able to hear her story and hear why this food is important to her and the stories behind that, and then to watch them eat it. And I I mean, this is like fresh vegetables. This was like Takis and
Armaline:some of the schools,
Teo:and kids were devouring it and and had like three cups of it. And so it was really beautiful to see. So having those opportunities for kids to connect with things that they traditionally maybe wanted, and bringing that into the classroom and having conversations and seeing that, you know, we might have our things that we do at home, but how can we bring that to the classroom? Because now I'm allowing kids to bring their full self in. I'm never asking kids to code switch.
Teo:I'm never asking them to leave part of themselves outside and then come in with just a small element of who they are. If we can bring our full selves into the classroom and ethics studies being that support, through books and conversations, then I think that is what Christopher Edmonds spoke of, about making the world a better place. So, you know, my argument is that, you know, trust just the experiences that kids have and the joys that they have in learning about others and, and, and will just purely make this, this experience for them and for everybody else a better connection.
Armaline:So, just to change the subject a little bit, I know that you don't just teach. Right? You also do some other kinds of programming with the students in community as well outside of the classroom. Would you mind talking a little bit about about some of that?
Teo:Sure. So, one of the first things I designed was an, anti racist parent workshop series, and that was aligned back to the ethnic studies. Sure. Because, this was around the time of, distance learning. And I knew, well, parents are in the back background of all these Google Meets that I'm having with kids, and they might have questions to why I'm reading particular books or having particular conversations.
Teo:And I'd rather have them not guess. I'd rather have them be informed. So I started having conversations with parents within my classroom about the value of these books and also start to look at, okay, what types of toys, what types of movies, streaming line, books do we have in our in our homes that nurture being anti racist and and being proactive or that sort of reinforce negative stereotypes. And so it was a really cool space to have conversations with families, to have them sort of reflect on their own childhood and then what they're doing to help support their kid as they're trying to create an anti racist environment at home. And so that was like my way of establishing something with parents that would be aligned with ethnic studies.
Teo:And then my district, thought it was a valuable thing. So they brought it to the the school, district in its in itself. So I had a couple workshops and cohorts within the district. So parents from other school sites were able to access that content and conversations. And then Mount Pleasant, asked me to do a workshop with them last year.
Teo:And it was just really beneficial because it's helpful for me to just hear from parents. I
Armaline:mean, are they into it? Like, are the are the families and parents into it, you think?
Teo:Yeah. I mean, they they, sign up. So I I I hope so. Oh, but
Armaline:but Well, I mean, that's the reason I'm asking. Right? Like, because, I mean, as a I'm not I've been a teacher too. All that you know, one of the things that teachers are always sort of, not complaining about, but something we struggle with, right, is, like, you end up with those handful of parents that are way too involved, if you know what I mean, like crawling all the way up your ass over every little thing. And then you have sort of the vast majority that either because, like we said, like they're working folks, they don't have a lot of time.
Armaline:They don't have a lot of extra time and bandwidth and energy for these kinds of things. And and I'm sure also, perhaps, more conservative members of our audience might also be thinking, like, oh, it sounds pretty preachy. I don't wanna hear this from my kids, you know, elementary school teacher, whatever. So, I mean, genuinely, as a question, I'm I'm just curious, like, do you find that the parents are, like, engaging with this, hungry for it at all? Or are they just kinda like, I don't have time, you know?
Teo:Yeah. The ones that showed up were very supportive of it. Like, I tried to establish really early on what would be the norms and that we had to understand that everybody was going along in this journey, but having different entrance points.
Alberto:Okay.
Teo:We're on a freeway and LA is a destination of being an anti racist family. Some are, you know, traveling along the one and and taking the slow route. Some are on the five. Some are flying over. Some are entering from Milpitas.
Teo:Some are entering from San Francisco. But we have to accept that all of us have different entry points, but we're on this journey together. So we don't wanna devalue anybody in this moment. We wanna support and be receptive of stuff and listen. Like, it wasn't a place that I wanted people to challenge each other.
Teo:I wanted them to reflect and just think about how can I move this forward because we really established this is beneficial to your kid? We all want what's best for our kid, and I am guaranteeing if if you understand and buy into this this concept, it's gonna benefit your child. So I didn't have anybody, like, combat me in those spaces, nor parents. But it was really nice to see people stepping out of their comfort zones and sharing their stories because I think some of the stories were very powerful that allowed people to think like, wow, I wasn't aware of that. I didn't know that.
Teo:So that's the value of, like, having different studies in the classroom. Like, people are starting to hear the stories that they would have never heard had they not been in that space. So I think I try to establish that, through session one every single time that people said, well, I want more of that, or I respect this group and what we're trying to do because everybody's being vulnerable in that space, and we don't try to try to devalue each other. So it it so far, I haven't had that resistance. I'm well aware it might happen, that and just move with that and flow because so far, it's been very positive and, encouraging.
Alberto:I
Armaline:wanna come back to something you were talking about earlier, which is the struggles of of being an educator here in in any number of ways. Right? And so I guess I just wanna kinda open it up to you. I mean, we can get into some more specific questions, but I wanna give you a chance to kinda go where you want with this. What would you describe as the biggest challenges to being an educator in San Jose, for maybe for new educators in particular?
Armaline:Because I think that might be a particular challenge. But kinda go wherever you want with that, because I I don't wanna lead you too much.
Annette:So I think that it's interesting because it's like as much as it's a challenge, I also think it has the potential to be, like, a saving grace.
Armaline:Oh, fam. Go there. Go there.
Annette:Which is, like, I think building relationships and trust with community, which means, like, the parents, the students, the staff, It it's both ends. Right? I mean, that could if you don't build that, I think it could go really, really wrong. And I think you have to show parents and you have to show students, like, I'm I'm here. I'm with you.
Annette:I'm in it. And I think, you know, kids are smart. Like, they know when you are you are fake. They know when you're just Mhmm. Saying it and not doing it.
Alberto:Yeah.
Annette:And so that has a huge impact. And I feel like too, same thing with parents. Right? Like, they know when you are there and trying to show up for their students. And and parents know, right, like, that we are overwhelmed and and we are struggling as well.
Annette:But I think when you try to find that common ground, like, okay. Like, what can I offer? Right? They see that as the olive branch. Right?
Annette:Like, okay. You are here for my student and for our family, and that goes a long that goes a long way. But there has to be action to that.
Armaline:So I'm wondering, what does a successful emancipatory project look like? So in other words, like, let's say your school's just killing the game. Right? Like, you're just doing all of the things the right way, and and it's, you know, the kind of, pedagogy or or teaching practices that you're describing. What would we be seeing or what would it look like to have a really successful emancipatory school in terms of outcomes, like for students, for families, for the community?
Armaline:What would that look like for us?
Annette:I feel like having again, I'm thinking of, like, the the hierarchy, right, of of a typical school system, system, again, where it's right? Like, you have your principal, you have your administrators, and it's like I don't know what how like, that looking different. Right? Like, yes. You have you have an administrator.
Annette:Right? But it's like, no. You like, wouldn't that be cool if it was like, there's a parent, like, a co there's a parent, like, in a co role. Right? Like, there's a parent working with, you know, your your dean of student affairs.
Annette:Right? Or, like, you know, I I know in some schools, at least in our district, right, we have, you know, liaisons, you know, that work with parents, and it's like, okay. But having other parents, right, like and, again, paid for that work.
Armaline:Sure.
Annette:Right? Like, paying these parents, right, for their efforts and labor and in building community, like, with other parents. Right? Yeah. Having having students go out, you know, to community, and it's not like I can't leave school, but I'm gonna leave and go into community and do some of this work.
Annette:Right? Like, we are gonna have students canvassing and out there, you know, maybe, like, registering people to vote. Like, that'd be amazing. Right? Like, that's, I don't know, these different ideas and visions of, like, what it could look like.
Armaline:No. It's beautiful. I just wanted you to share those visions with the audience, right, for who who may just be thinking about this for the first time. Yeah. And as you know, right, I I know you you're you're you're returned to school.
Armaline:You're you're a graduate student as well. So you take a lot of these these issues really seriously as a professional. And as you know, right, you know, critical theorists have for a long time talked about how schools are, you know, social reproduction theory that is since the Anion studies and all of this right that schools in many ways function to reproduce, our class and racial hierarchies and these sorts of things. And so when we start talking about things like emancipatory education or critical pedagogy or these kinds of things, right, one of the ideas is that education can also be counter hegemonic. Right?
Armaline:It can Mhmm. It can, serve to interrupt that pattern of reproducing generation after generation, of working poor people, of of oppressed people, of of people that are, you know, structurally being framed or or or railroaded into a certain position in life. Right? And so, I just wanted the audience to be able to hear kinda, like, what your vision of that looks like a little bit. And I think it's beautiful.
Annette:I will say, you know, it's interesting, like, within my own classroom, I've I've tried different things over the years. And for example, trying to give students more choice. So, like, giving them, like, opportunities to choose, like, hey. Like, what books you wanna read? So it's like Yeah.
Annette:Like, here's the theme or here's the concept that we're dealing with. Here's three different books that, like, I'm putting out there for y'all. If you want to choose, you choose the one. Or if you have a different one that you feel is connected, you bring that into the space. And even though I'm trying to do things like that, it is interesting to me.
Annette:Students have a hard time with that.
Armaline:Yeah.
Annette:They resist that. And and when I first tried, I was like, this is blowing my mind. I'm like, I'm giving y'all, like, choice. I'm trying to give you all the power.
Armaline:Well, why do you think that is? Why why do they have trouble with the with the adaptation to that?
Annette:And I think it took reflecting. And, again, it took me also going through my own work and and my own education in the grad program, which was, right, starting to understand, like, why does that happen? It's again, I think there's such a reinforcement of a system of regurgitory. Right? Like, know the facts.
Annette:Be able to spit it back out. And and anytime you try to do something different, it's like, I don't I don't understand. Yeah. Right? Like, this this defies what I know as education.
Annette:And when something is unknown, right, there's there's a resistance sometimes.
Armaline:Sure.
Annette:Right? It's not an automatic, like, I'm gonna love it. I'm gonna embrace it. It's like, I don't know this. And so how do I approach it, or am I gonna do well?
Annette:There's there's some real fear to that.
Armaline:Well, after years and years of socialization, right, we we we say, like, you know, school isn't just where you learn reading, writing, and arithmetic. It's where you learn your place.
Annette:Yeah.
Armaline:Right? And so, like, if you've been taught your place is to not make those decisions, your place is to sit down, shut up, and and do what you're told, which in many of our working class schools across the country, that's, you know, generally been the curriculum. You know, once you start giving them that control and that autonomy, they it's like, well, wait. Should I should I be doing this? Right?
Armaline:Should should I be able to make the decision? And I'm asking this too because, you know, sometimes as educators are when you or when we talk about these kinds of things, oh, you know, I wanna give students an opportunity to choose the books they wanna read and do these kinds of things. There's, I think, also a belief that, like, the students, like, don't give a shit. You know what I mean? Like, they don't care enough to wanna do those things, which I don't hear you saying that either though.
Armaline:Right?
Annette:Yeah. I I think it too like, again, I had to do You
Armaline:understand what I'm saying? Right? Like, like Yeah.
Annette:Yeah. Yeah. Okay.
Armaline:Like, some people would have the ideas, like, my kid don't give a shit. You know what I mean? Like, if you care at all about what you're reading, I'd be super happy. But I don't hear you saying that. I hear you saying no.
Armaline:It's just that they've kind of been socialized in a different way. You feel me?
Annette:Yeah. And I think too, like, upon my own reflection, understanding, like, if I'm as one teacher, though, right, just as an example Yeah.
Armaline:Of course.
Annette:Am trying to create that space. But if I'm working in isolation so as a student, right, if you came into my class and you're like, okay, cool. Like, this is different. This is this is interesting. But then you go to your other five classes
Armaline:Right.
Annette:And it's Right. That kind of, again, like, very ingrained approach and traditional approach to education. What do you do with that? Right. And and that's not something, right, like, that I had thought about beforehand.
Annette:Right? It wasn't until, again, I had to kinda stop and be like, wait. Why is this happening? Why is
Alberto:there resistance?
Annette:Like, okay. Right? Like, that makes sense. Right?
Armaline:Yeah. No. Totally.
Annette:Why why am I gonna like, it's I'm asking students to, like, shift from my class Mhmm. But then they have to shift back Yeah. Into, like That
Armaline:same socialization. Yeah. Mode? Exactly.
Annette:I mean, that's right? That's hard to do.
Armaline:Totally. I I think that makes a lot of sense. To help us understand the potential for public education to improve the lives and life chances of everyday working families, we had a chance to talk to Luis Posa, who educates teachers and directs a new institute at San Jose State. Why don't you do me a favor and introduce yourself to our audience? Let them know your name and what it is you do.
Luis:For sure. So I'm Luis Posa. I'm an associate professor of teacher education at San Jose State University in the Lurie College Of Education, and I'm also the director of our Institute for Emancipatory Education. In those capacities, different programs and initiatives, like our ethnic studies residency for teacher candidates and mentor teachers, and our newly launched male educators of color initiative. So all these
Teo:things together under the umbrella of
Luis:So all these things together under the umbrella of trying to transform teaching and the educational system, to be just more equitable and more just.
Armaline:So I I wanna come back. So this is great. Thank you so much. I I think that helps. It definitely helps me.
Armaline:I think it helps our audience too to understand a little bit more, like, specifically what it is you all are doing. And I think we can all hear, like, how that would benefit the students to get those kinds of opportunities for those pathways and and for those those forms of social and cultural capital. And again, the the programs are very impressive. I do wanna come back though to just sort of the more it's a general sort of philosophical and political question about what emancipation means. So and I'm asking this, I'm I'm I'm not gonna beat around the bush.
Armaline:Right? I mean, I'm asking this in real context, because, you know, the debates, currently on the the sort of the left and the pro quote unquote progressive left, have been around this question, right, of, like, what are we really thinking about when we're thinking about emancipation, we're thinking about freedom. These are the kinds of questions that also really, came out of the Black Lives Matter movements in both phases as well over the last decade. And, you know, I think you have, an emergent debate, and it's not emergent. It's actually been going on for some time, about sort of, you know, you have some folks that are very much about, sort of the identity politics, sort of very hardcore.
Armaline:And, this debate between those who are really trying to get rid of the broader power relationships and those who who are perhaps happy with simply diversifying the power relationships that we have now. To put it real simply for the audience, it's like, do you want a diverse CIA? Do you want a diverse, brutal corporate, owning class that will squash you just the same as an all white owning class? Do you want right. Or or do you wanna not have an owning class that can crush you to death?
Armaline:Or do you not wanna have a CIA? Or do you not want right? And, I think that is very much still a debate that's with us and needs to be had in many, many, many more places. I think it's a debate that's being had over Gaza. I think it's a debate that's being had over many of our other political issues now.
Armaline:And so it's within that context that I'm asking you this question. Like, again, so what are we talking about when we're talking about emancipation? Are we talking about a few more people from our working class and Latino communities become managers at Cisco? Or are we talking about changing the power relations where we live?
Luis:The latter. Right. Absolutely. So, I think it's it is explicitly a push against narratives of educational equity that frame it as increasing achievement, right, and and that stop there, right, is that if we can just raise test scores, if we can just raise graduation rates, right, then we're all good. My colleague, doctor Tiffany Marie, does really beautiful research at kind of the intersections of education and public health
Armaline:Sure.
Luis:Right, and has found the ways that students, you know, in kind of chronic stress environments, but also subjected to these kind of very typical models of schooling, right, where where information is really transmitted to them. Right? Never with any sense of of how how it relates to their day to day life. Yeah.
Armaline:You're just a receptacle. Exactly. Just a receptacle for information.
Luis:You know, the the the health risks that they experience in their life. Right? And and in her research, she documents that, you know, some of the students, high school students, right, had some of the same kind of chromosomal markers of middle aged breast cancer survivors.
Armaline:Wow.
Luis:Right? Like, and through pedagogical interventions, right, students actually were able to kind of grow back elements of their telomeres, right, to these little pieces in the chromosome, right, that are just indicators of health and and wellness. Right? And so when we think about emancipatory education, we are thinking about moving away from these models of education that are just about transmission, that are just about, you know, being higher on a hierarchy. Right?
Luis:We are thinking about models of education that are oriented towards well-being, towards flourishing, right, towards, you know, students' capacity to be agents, right, like civically engaged, culturally, creatively engaged in the lives around them. Right? We are thinking about an education that doesn't just attend to individual student outcomes, but that attends to the community itself, right, as a whole. Right? Recognizing that students, are part are members of ecosystems.
Luis:Right? And that we can't, we can't fully nurture the individual without also nurturing that ecosystem, right,
Alberto:in
Luis:in helpful ways. So emancipation is breaking away from these, I guess, this myth of meritocracy, right, in education. And there's just, if you work hard, everything will be okay. Right? It's breaking away from, you know, our paradigms of of what good teaching looks like or what good learning looks like, and moving towards, these models that are, as you say, right, really rejecting this notion of hierarchy, really rejecting this notion, that being successful means you get to be in a position to exploit others.
Luis:Right? And and you get to be in a position that causes harm to others and that causes harm to the natural world. Right? As so really thinking about, how does education in schools become that site of, for actualization, right, for for connecting to the natural world, for collecting connecting to our community, for connecting to our ancestors, for connecting to each other, right, and and seeing all that also as part of our desired outcomes for schools.
Armaline:Anyway, well, thank you, fam. Like I said, I I'm I'm I'm loving this conversation. I know our audience will too. I wanted you you just had a beautiful segue to what's gonna be my last question because you've given us a a lot of your time. So when we talk about and I know you went through this program at San Jose State as well, so I know you're gonna know what I'm talking about.
Armaline:But, you know, for decades, right, critical educators, critical theory folks, all this, have developed these notions of I mean, at San Jose State, they're working with this language of emancipatory education. You also have, you know, the the legacies of really well known folks like Paulo Freire and others who for for generations, really, for decades, really have talked about, the transformative potential of public education, not just for an individual, right, but but for changing politics, changing the dynamics of power in a place. Right? And so I'm just wondering, like, what your view on that is. It's like, what does emancipatory education look like to you?
Armaline:And what is the real potential for public education to change, the ruling relations, right, of of of where we live? Like who,
Teo:you
Armaline:know, not just issues of of race, but but also issues of class, issues of, you know, who who runs the joint? You know what I mean? What is the what is the the potential for public education to be emancipatory in that kind of way?
Alberto:Yeah. We have to destroy it and build something else. Because the way it looks like right now, it's like there's very few of us who are really down with the nitty gritty of how we do emancipatory practices in the classroom. And then the rest of us are unfortunately caught up in, like, this old mindset that that hasn't developed, that is very merit based, and it's very much, like, overlooking the realities of the students that we're working with, especially on the East Side. Like, we are not your Mountain View or Los Altos, Redwood City communities of of of wealth and privilege.
Alberto:We are very much working class, like, learning how to survive and navigate this really fucked up system that perpetuates a physical, spiritual, emotional, and mental, violence against Rasa, against students of color, against working class communities. And it's it's it's really evident that the systems we're in, you know, unfortunately, they may have a title, and they may have this this big idea of of freedom and and whatnot. They don't really practice them. Like, through my experience was was rough in the program because there were a lot of times where I was told that how I rolled was not professional, that how I spoke was not the way a teacher should speak. And a lot of the times my concerns do not matter, but someone else would bring up similar concerns.
Alberto:And right away, they were there to cater in. And it perpetuates, you know, whose concerns are listened to and whose aren't. So it starts, like, within the institutions. It's getting rid of them, following the models of of these really these emancipatory schools of, like, of Mexico, of rural Mexico. I had the privilege of going to Huehuetla, which is a village in Puebla, with with a great mentor of mine, David Morales, who's who actually does that practice of emancipatory teaching.
Alberto:He organized this intercambio. We went to, Academia Paulo Freire
Armaline:Mhmm.
Alberto:Which was which is in Huehuetla Yep. Right on the right on the side of a of a mountain of a really sacred mountain. And they the students there and the teachers there from Mexico City and from Puebla are doing phenomenal work of, like, empowering youth that are, because of their indigenous background, overlooked by a classist society in Mexico, and and they really affirm those students. They actually want them to practice their to speak in to to know their history and know what relevance they have. We should really model our schools that way.
Alberto:We we have to affirm a lot of the the learnings that our youth can provide us. And until we do that, emancipatory education is just a phrase. If it's not it's it it it'll never be put into practice unless we start really putting our our our work where our mouth is. It's we we can't fake the front. We gotta do it.
Alberto:So I don't know. That question and I've seen it this year. Like, that question really it gets it gets me frustrated because we dream it. We wanna live it. Mhmm.
Teo:And
Alberto:then we start to do it and so few of us. And then it's like, fuck. And and, like, where I'm at, like, I'm I'm an insider. Like, we we don't give a fuck. We'll still do it.
Alberto:I'll talk my shit, and I'll back up my student Yeah. A 10%. I don't care who likes it or who doesn't like it. Whether it goes with or against the grain of of teaching, uplifting and affirming our youth is a man is an emancipatory practice. And affirming their families and their struggles and highlighting the capitals and the resilience that they bring into the classroom, that's emancipatory.
Alberto:Right. But fucking quizzing kids on some stupid vocabulary or, like, talking about some nonsense bullshit that they won't even use in their day to day life, that's not emancipatory. You can label it emancipatory, but it ain't emancipatory. Yeah. Like, we gotta we really have to showcase the students and their capitals for it to be emancipatory.
Alberto:Yeah. So Right. Yeah. That's where I'm at with it.
Armaline:So well, that this is great. I mean, you you answered that question beyond, you know, what I what I was even hoping for, to be be honest with you. And I think it's a beautiful kinda testament to what that looks like on the ground, not just to talk about it, but but to actually do something about it. And I appreciate you sharing some of the frustrations that you're having in doing it. This isn't just, like, an easy gig.
Armaline:Right? Like, it's not like you can just turn around and do this shit. It takes real dedication. Yeah. You're really swimming upstream in some ways, all that.
Armaline:Right?
Alberto:It takes it's it's a lot of free labor. And and a lot of the people and I see it, like, on campuses where these people can, like, say they're about it. They're only about their nine to five and their contract hours, and then after that, they dip out. Yeah. There's nothing beyond.
Alberto:And I think to be, an educator that's for change, unfortunately, we gotta put in or not even unfortunately, depending on who you ask. Like, for me, I got my work at 08:00, and I don't leave till six. And my time to start work is 09:30, and I'm off at four. And I'm not, like, glamorizing, overworking, or whatever. Like, obviously, people have their capacities, and they gotta do what they gotta do to be, you know, strong educators.
Alberto:But a lot of it has to do with, like, free labor. Like, you gotta there's a there's a, like, there's a, a love to it. Like, when you put in those extra hours to support the youth Mhmm. And be about it. And it oftentimes goes unrecognized.
Alberto:So
Armaline:So I'm sure, fam, like, I'm absolutely sure that your interview is gonna inspire a lot of our listeners. You know, and I'm just wondering if you have any advice. So for any of our listeners, any of our audience members that, you know, they really believe in the kinds of things that you're talking about, whether they're East Siders or not, you know, all that, you know, what are the best ways for members of our audience to get involved, support our public schools, and support people like you and what you're trying to do in the classroom?
Alberto:I don't know. That's that's tough. I've always be, you know, supportive of the youth that you're working with, whether it be as a paraeducator, whether it be as a as an after school program specialist, whether, like, you work for the y or you do something. I don't know. I think we have to be really, my mentor says this a lot, doctor Gomez.
Alberto:He says, be quick to listen and slow to speak. And I think a lot of the times when we work with youth, we're often very, very quick to speak and slow to listen to them, and and it should be the opposite. So work with youth, you know, holistically and and with love and and know that sometimes the change you wanna see in them will not be immediate. But over their their development and their their their their ways of becoming, you'll see, and they'll see, and they'll witness back to you and be very grateful for you and their patience with them. So, yeah, I think it's it's important that, you know, you listen to your kids and and you're patient, and don't go into education expecting to be a billionaire.
Armaline:And with that, I wanna thank you, Berto, for joining us on Sanjo Lowdown. Like I said, it's real pleasure to meet you, pleasure to have you on the show. I'm really hoping the audience, appreciates what you had to say. I in fact, I know they will. And, you know, we'd love to have you back sometime, maybe catch up with you on how some of your work's going.
Alberto:Right on. No. Thank you, guys. I really appreciate the opportunity and, really grateful. And and, yeah, a lot of what I said isn't it's it's it's the youth I work with.
Alberto:Like, I'm speaking for the youth that I work with and for the East Side. It's not just it hasn't just been me, like, who got me here. It was all the love and support that I got. So I'm grateful for those people that were my foundations and my rocks.
Armaline:No, bro. I'd say that comes through very easily in just hearing you talk about your work and talk about your students. I don't think anyone would doubt, you know, your level of dedication and what it is you're doing. I mean, it's inspiring to me. You know what I mean?
Armaline:So I I just wanna say thank you for all the work that you're doing. Thank you for joining us today. Thank you for sharing your story with our audience. And like I said, hopefully, we'll be able to have you back some time and talk more.
Alberto:Hell, yeah. Thank you. Thank you.
Armaline:Thank you, fam. So I'm psyched to be joined by Alora for episode wrap up. She's the newest member of the San Jo Lowdown team, and we're really excited to have her. How you doing, Alora?
Elora:Hey. I'm doing well. How are you today?
Armaline:I'm good. I'm good. It's always good to see you, fam.
Elora:You too. Thank you.
Armaline:So you grew up on the East Side too. Yeah?
Elora:Yep. That's correct. I grew up on McKee And White and Nell And Rock And White.
Armaline:Bet bet. Well, what did you think about today's episode?
Elora:I really enjoyed it. I really enjoyed hearing all the speakers, their experiences, specifically living in the East Side because, you know, fellow eastsiders represent.
Alberto:Mhmm.
Armaline:And
Elora:I really enjoyed hearing, their experiences with, public education and what more can be done and what more needs to be done to create a more just and equitable system for everyone.
Armaline:So did you go to public school on the East Side as well?
Elora:I did for elementary school. And then for middle and high school, I was placed into a Catholic private school.
Armaline:Which one?
Elora:For middle school, I went to Saint John Vianney. And then for high school, I went to Notre Dame, which is an all girls school right here in Downtown San Jose.
Armaline:Bet. Bet. So do you think you had different kinds of opportunities or experiences going to private school and some of your friends on the East Side that went to public?
Elora:Yeah. Definitely. Just going to private school, I experienced a lot more, opportunities as far as access to resources, different classes, to different extracurriculars, and to different social networks, than other individuals, you know, who I was, associating with, that went to public school. But, you know, I was still, hanging out with all the public school kids after school. So So
Armaline:So if you wanna, like, party and hang out with the cool kids, it was a public school kid, basically. Is that what you're saying?
Elora:Yeah. Pretty much. Besides, you know, like, all the the play and drama kids that I would hang out with. I
Armaline:get it. I get it. So private school was all the extracurricular activities and all the partying with the public school kids.
Elora:I Yeah. Exactly.
Armaline:I think every I think I think folks can relate. I think folks can relate. So you work in public schools right now too, don't you?
Elora:Yeah. Correct. I'm working, over there, near the East Foothills. I'm working in a public elementary school, more specifically special education, more of the behavioral side of things, but I definitely see a lot of the challenges that were, talked about today, during the episode, especially with staff shortage, lack of resources, lack of supplies, total burnout, of everyone. And it's really having, you know, really negative effects on the entire community, not just the school, not just the students, but, you know, also the teachers, the staff.
Elora:Yeah.
Armaline:I heard you had kind of a hairy episode in the bathroom this week.
Elora:Yeah. So this week is actually my last week working with, the school district and I was, supporting a student with, changing them out, their diapers specifically. And this is like a two hundred pound ten year old. And, you know, the three of us, him and me and another staff, were in the small super small bathroom trying to change him. The staff leaves for a few minutes.
Elora:So it's just student and I waiting for, you know, the change of clothes and everything's cool, everything's chill, and all of a sudden this the student lunges for my neck and just scratches and claws down my throat. So I had to put in a few incident reports, but, you you know, I'll survive, but it just kinda shows that, there is a lot of extra and additional support needed to, see that everyone's safe and in a good place.
Armaline:No. I really appreciate you sharing that story. I think it really does help us to understand the extent to which our public teachers, really give so much for the students and for the school and for the folks in their care. And it goes well beyond just, like, sort of standing up in front of a class at a chalkboard or something like that, or sitting in front, like, doing some, I don't know, slides or or whatever. And Oh, yeah.
Armaline:This is much more intimate, you know, what you're describing. And I think it speaks to the kinds of sacrifices that a lot of our teachers are are are giving. And when you speak to burnout, if you're getting attacked by a two hundred pound ten year old in the bathroom, that's probably gonna contribute to your burnout.
Alberto:Yeah.
Armaline:All love to to all of our kids and all of our folks on the spectrum, but it's just, you know, it's just a reality of the of the gig. Right?
Elora:Yep.
Armaline:So look at and this is exactly why I'm psyched to have you on the team, Elora. I'm really psyched that you actually are are really sort of had a connection with what we talked about in the episode today. That means a lot. And because what we're trying to do at Sanho LowDown is is make those connections. We really wanna give voice to just everyday working people in our communities, and we wanna do that for those communities, to entertain them, to to to inform them, and to really be speaking to the folks that, you know, are people.
Armaline:You know what I'm saying? In the neighborhoods, in the places, who we appreciate, who we live with, and we we love. So so thank you for that. I I really appreciate you being here and being able to contribute. And, of course, I love having you on the squad.
Armaline:So so welcome, and I hope our audience will welcome you as well.
Elora:Awesome. Thank you so much.
Armaline:And on that note, I wanna go ahead and thank our guests for today's episode. I wanna thank Alberto. I wanna thank Annette, Mateo, Luis. Shouts out to the hardworking educators of the Eastside Teachers Association. Shouts out to the hardworking faculty and staff at the Institute for Educational Emancipation at SJSU.
Armaline:Many thanks to Nestor and Joaquin. Oh, by the way, y'all, we got a new team member, Joaquin. He's gonna be joining us as well. We'll get him on a mic soon. Shouts out to Joaquin for putting together all of our music and for the episode.
Armaline:Thanks to Elora again for joining the team and for jumping on our conclusion. And as always, many, many, many, many, many thanks to the wizard behind the screen, the man behind it all, our amazing producer, Nick, who sews it all together and makes me and everyone else sound like we know what we're doing. So I really appreciate it, and and we re really appreciate you. And like I said always, we wanna hear from you. We wanna hear from our audience.
Armaline:So please get at us on Instagram, get at us on the website, however you want, because we really wanna be serving you all and giving you what you wanna hear. Thanks again for joining us saying hello, Loudoun. We'll see you next time.